Beyond Borders: Thriving in a New Cultural Landscape

Episode Transcript
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Melissa Franklin (00:00):
Today, on Structuring Chaotic Minds, we're
diving into an inspiring storyabout bold moves, personal
growth and the power ofcommunity.
My guests, my newest friendsOliver and Alexandra Catt, left
everything familiar behind tobuild a new life and a business
in Grenada.
It's a journey about courage,connection and transformation

(00:22):
that will inspire anyone lookingto embrace change and thrive in
new environments.
Oliver and Alexandra have takenentrepreneurship to a whole new
level, creating meaningfulrelationships and building a
sense of belonging in a placethat once felt foreign.
Today they're going to sharetheir insights on adapting,
thriving and lessons theylearned along the way.

(00:43):
But first let's cue thattrailer and dive into this
powerful conversation.
Welcome to Structuring ChaoticMinds, the podcast where we
redefine what it means to thriveas leaders, entrepreneurs and
individuals in today's fast paceworld.
I'm Melissa Franklin.
I'm an executive and leadershipcoach on a mission to help

(01:03):
strong, driven individualsembrace the importance of mental
wellness without letting itdefine or limit them.
Here we break down themisconceptions about mental
health and success.
Mental wellness isn't aweakness.
It's the foundation forbecoming the best version of
ourselves, because when we takecare of ourselves, we can lead,
create and thrive in every areaof our life.

(01:25):
This show is about balance.
It means owning our challengeswithout being held back by them,
growing as leaders and buildingthriving communities where
everyone has a chance to succeed.
Let's dive in and embrace thechaos together.
Welcome, alexandra and Oliver.
Thank you, thank you.
Thank you, hi.
I'm going to start with you andOliver, thank you.
Thank you, hi.

(01:47):
I'm going to start with you,oliver.
What inspired you guys to moveto Grenada, and what was it more
of a professional or personalopportunity?
Maybe a mix of both?

Oliver Catt (02:00):
I was going to say one inspired, I got bullied into
it.
No, I didn't really.
I was going to say one inspired, I got bullied into it.
No, I didn't really.
I think one of the biggestthings with what Alexandra and I
did we were long-term careerprofessionals and we had been
traveling a lot and we knew somefriends that lived in the

(02:20):
Caribbean and we went to visitand they were like you need to
move here, you need to come andwork with us, you need to get
over here.
We said no, it was never goingto happen.
And then one day, once upon atime, after many conversations
happened, we were actuallyheadhunted by a rather large
hospitality organization whocame along for jobs for both of

(02:42):
us and was like okay, when canyou come over here?
And that was seven years ago, Ithink, right, alex.

Alexandra Catt (02:51):
Oh man yeah, how did?

you, how did you guys prepare for such a big
change?
So I guess, alexandra, I'll askyou that one first.
Um, moms, that part was sevenyears ago.
No kids yet, right?

yeah, no kids.
So I think just the preparingwas.
It sounds really odd.
We had six weeks like theyliterally said this is your, the
flight that you're coming outon, we need you to start on this
date.
So I just went into go modelike we had to start the house,
we had to start saying goodbyeto friends, leave jobs, all of

(03:23):
that.
But Oliver left his job I'dalready left, so it was I don't
ever.
Really well, it didn't hit meuntil I got to the airport and
my brother called me and he waslike he's not the most emotional
person and he said I'm reallyproud of you, good luck and I
love you.
I'd burst into tears in theairport, like literally sobbing,
like um, are you okay?

(03:46):
Didn't know.
I was on the phone to mybrother, just saw me on the
phone and this angel of an S toan F, it's like pop a brush, do
you want a cup of tea?
And I was like yeah, I reallydo.
And then Oliver just ushered meonto the plane because I think
he was worried if I didn't geton, I wouldn't get on um.
But yeah, I think preparing you,just because of how short the

(04:08):
time was, that there wasn't muchthat hit us until we got here
and then we were like like this,is it now?
Like you really were just in.
This is the day we're leaving,like I said, in six weeks time.
So we've kind of got to geteverything done.
You're just really taskorientated.
With it I mean the amount ofstuff that we ended up.

(04:29):
Friends and family just lovedcoming to our house because they
came empty-handed and they'releft with carloads full of
clothes and shoes and books andtvs and there was a sponge at
one point.
I was like, just take it, likeI'm not.
We already knew what we weretaking with us.
I think that left what a weekbefore we left.
So I mean, that was pretty muchit.

(04:52):
I think that's the worst answerI can give because we were just
very short on time.

I really I forgot about that crying at the airport
thing and what I foundhilarious about that, because
the airport, all these bags.
We'd already had an argumentright and I swear everybody in
the airport had seen this arguebecause it's like stressful.
We were leaving, everything wasgoing on and then obviously
alex burst into tears and Ihadn't witnessed the
conversation, I think the thelady at the check-in desk.

(05:18):
I thought we'd had like thatmuch of a bust up that I put her
into tears.
They actually gave us a 20pounds gift card at the
Starbucks like here you go, goget some coffee.

Oh man, I love it.
What were your firstimpressions upon arriving,
oliver?

What in Grenada?
Do you know what, in terms ofthe Caribbean, I'd only ever
been to St Lucia before, so Iknew how rural St Lucia was
compared to where we were living.
I don't think I expected howrural Grenada was to St Lucia
when we first arrived.

(05:57):
It's a completely differentball game here.
Every island is different,every island has its own culture
.
Every island has its ownhistory, heritage, background
and when we got here, I meandon't get me wrong it was
breathtaking the minute welanded and I remember looking
out the window and thinking wewere going to actually land on

(06:18):
the water, because the runwaywas next to the water and we
were sat by the window and justlanding, I thinking a minute
we're landing on an island, likewhere's the island?
Um, but it was, it was.
It was an amazing place.
And from from arriving andgetting at the airport, being
picked up and taken to where wewere staying for the next few

(06:39):
nights to get ourselvesorganized, it was just amazing.
Uh, high on adrenaline, uh,high on an open bar, on a
12-hour flight, um, and thenarriving, uh, and and just, we
arrived.
What?
I think we got here for sunset,I think it was, if I remember
correctly, and that was ourfirst kind of exposure to

(07:01):
Grenada, and it was just, it wasjust breathtaking, and we
hadn't even seen much the.
The distance from where we werestaying, from the airport, was
like four minutes, so so wedidn't even get to see much, uh,
until the next day.
Uh, we had a huge thunder ofrain, so I thought, oh, is this
what we expect now for the restof our lives?

that's funny.
All that anxiety and woof, thatseems pretty quick loop then.
Well, you already kind ofmentioned that the cultures are
different.
So I guess, alex, let me kickthis one to you.
What are some of the?

biggest cultural differences that you all
encountered and how theyactually impacted your day to
day life or even the business.
I think, just generally in theCaribbean we call it island time
.
Um, what you're used to in acountry like the UK or America,
where you can send an email andyou get a response like straight
away, you can effectivelyfinish a process within 48 hours

(08:02):
.
In the Caribbean, andspecifically Grenada, that is
just not the case.
I mean, replacing a bank cardis the best example I can give.
I had to do that the other week.
The girls had taken my bankcard and were playing shop with
it and it was lost in the house.
So I called about and do allthe like lost card process and

(08:22):
they said you know, naturallyyou need to go into the branch
to get your replacement card.
Fine, first time I've had to doit in Grenada 45 minutes spent
doing paperwork and at the endof it the lady said I need to
take it now to my manager forapproval and I was like fine,
and then I went just out ofcuriosity, what happens if your

(08:44):
manager doesn't approve it?
And she's like I don't reallyknow and I just thought in
England you never would have hadthat process like it would have
been done online, you probablywould have had to go into the
branch to pick it up or it wouldhave been sent to you, but 45
minutes sitting down and doingpaperwork just wouldn't have
been done.
So I think island time isdefinitely the biggest culture

(09:09):
shock for a lot of people,especially doing what I do now.
People expect like really quickresponses and I'm like that's
just not going to happen.
So you've got to manageexpectations really well when
you're dealing with for me, uk,us, especially in the Caribbean,
um, but it also allows you totake a step back sometimes and
enjoy things.

(09:29):
I mean it gets frustrating andall of that.
Um, I think the biggest one iseverybody as well says morning
to each other.
I mean you, I do it with thegirls If they walk into a store.
It doesn't matter if you don'tknow the store owner, you don't
know anybody in the store.
You just kind of announceyourself.
You go morning, afternoon,evening and it's.

(09:53):
I guess it ties into the senseof community that I think is
culturally really strong inGrenada.
I mean it's a really smallisland, so everybody knows
everybody, but it doesn't matterif you're related or not,
everybody just jumps in to helpout.
We had really severe floodingthe other week and it didn't

(10:14):
matter if you knew somebody ornot, you just you saw it with
everybody.
They just jump in and help.
And I mean, again, hitchhikingis quite common here.
You'll just see people on theside of the road, cars will pull
over.
You might not know the personthat well, but you know, it's
just that real big communityelement that I think is very

(10:34):
different to what the UK waswhen we left.
I mean, I'm from up north wherethere's still, I think, quite a
strong sense of community inEngland, but we left when we
lived in, or we lived in Londonfor a little bit.
I didn't feel it as much there,um, but I'd say those are
probably the biggest thing.
And the food I have never seen aculture like the Caribbean who

(10:58):
are so obsessed with their food.
I love it because I'm a foodieand the food is delicious, but
things like that, I'd say.
And there's the heritage.
I think there's just such adifferent culture when it comes
to celebrating things.
So, halloween's not big inGrenada, but since we've had the
girls, they're exposed to itthrough different things.

(11:20):
So we've kind of had to workaround, respecting that the
girls are grenadian and theirculture and not dilute it too
much, but also nowadays kids areexposed to so much other stuff.
So I guess trying to do thathybrid and still respecting
everything that's what I'd saythe biggest things I love that.

What about for you, oliver?

There we go.
I don't know what happenedthere, but I lost the unmute
button for some reason.
Just really, to echo everythingthat Alex just said there it's,
the sense of community issomething that I've never
experienced, and I've traveledand worked abroad for a number
of years before we came here, um, and yeah, okay, it was a

(12:19):
little bit different.
I mean, anything outside of theUK is different, um, but here,
the camaraderie, the support,the network, our friendship
group.
When we first moved here, wewere told that we were going to
be probably one of six back thenI would like to say expats on
the island, right, becausethat's what we were.

(12:40):
We were, we were brought overby a company.
We didn't know if we werestaying going, living here.
We could have been here a month, we could have been in six
months.
We've been two years and we'rehere seven years later doing our
own thing rather than workingfor that company.
But we were told it was a verysmall community and that could
not have been further from thehere seven years later, doing
our own thing rather thanworking for that company.
But we were told it was a verysmall community and that could

(13:02):
not have been further from thetruth.
This just blew up the peoplethat we met, the people that we
surrounded ourselves by, and wehad our own family here within a
matter of months.
Um, and I know that I can pickup the phone and call one of 60
people and they will be aroundthis house in a drop of a hat.
Prime example I won't go intotoo much detail, but there was

(13:22):
an incident when our eldest was10 months old and we had to
literally leave the houseimmediately, go to the hospital,
and I made three phone calls,like in the car, left the house
open, everything was going.
The lanterns were going, we hadmosquito torches like a lit
fire, dinner was in the oven.
We got in the car, we went.
I made three phone calls andevery single one of those people

(13:44):
went around to my house,checked it, locked it up, closed
it up like shut down.
I left the house open and Idon't know how long it took them
to get there, but it was one ofthose things where I know I
didn't even need to think aboutit and it would be taken care of
, the same way that any of thosepeople or any of our close-knit
groups say we need you, we arethere, there's no messing around
, there's no.

(14:04):
Oh yeah, I'm busy.
You, you need somebody.
They're there.
And I think that is the biggestpart of the community, because
we all have come from adifferent background.
We've got friends here from theUK, canada, other islands,
trinidad, st Lucia, jamaica, usyou name it.
The list just goes on and on,and we're all there for each

(14:28):
other and I think that's the keypart of all of that, and I
think that's the key part of allof that and it makes living
here a completely differentballgame to when we first
arrived, at what we expected.

I love it.
How has that experience thenactually shaped you guys, as
entrepreneurs, in your approachto business?

So, I left my job from the hospitality company
just shy.
We're a month shy of five yearsago.
I set up my own businessjanuary 1st or january 2nd 2020,
two months before the publicshut down for covid.
Let's just say that first yearwasn't a good year.

(15:11):
I don't think it was a goodyear for a lot of people.
But we pivoted, we bounced backstrong and this was running my
own thing, baby on the way.
So there was a lot of scarythings going on, but we had to
make it work.
And, yeah, I could sit here andsay everything was rainbows and
unicorns.
It wasn't, you know, it wasstressful.
We had arguments, we had fightsand but.

(15:37):
But again, I think knowing thatthe whole world was in some
kind of predicament, kind of,was the light at the end of the
tunnel.
Um, but, if anything, that mademe work a hell of a lot harder.
I stepping into this role, Iknew it was going to be
difficult setting up my ownbusiness, but I thought it was
going to be easier than what itwas.
I thought I would have a niceeasy ride and I would send out

(16:00):
social media posts and haveclients flooding through my door
.
It didn't happen.
We learned that we learned thehard way.
But, um, I will say and thisisn't just being me being nice
towards her, but I wouldn't bedoing it without Alex, without
her pushing me and kicking me incertain areas many times a week

(16:21):
to pull my finger out and getmoving.
So you know, we are where we arenow and I think it has
definitely shaped that, and Ieven say to this day, if Alex
and I were still in the UK, wewouldn't be running our own
independent businesses andlaunching a third in the next
month.
If we were still in the UK, wewould still be employed
categorically.
I know that would be.

(16:42):
It would have the 2.4 children,the house, the mortgage and
everything else.
This is just okay.
We had to make it work and it'sworking.

I love it.
Well, let's shift over then,alex.
Let us know what are someunique challenges you guys have
faced in building relationshipsand networking in Grenada think
off the bat.

Stereotypes, people, people, the minute they
see you, they hear your accent,will put you in a box, um, and I
think that's whoever you are,wherever you are in the world.
Um, it probably didn't botherme so much until I had the girls
who were born here, so they arefirst generation Grenadian.

(17:26):
Um, and just going back to whatOliver said earlier, our
friendship group is so diverseand we have a lot of Grenadians
within it, so when they realized, we didn't know if we're having
a boy or a girl for either.
So when they realized thatbabies were going to be
Grenadian, they were straightoff the bat.
You know, I'm going to teachthem how to cook oil down, which

(17:48):
is the national dish, which isthe national dish, and they were
just so proud to pass on theheritage and the culture and all
of that to the girls that I'venever been so worried about it.
But I think what I'veexperienced is such a split in
that is, that the girls are justjudged, and I've been judged
straight away.
Like I said, you're put in abox because of how you look and

(18:09):
how you sound.
The girls have very Britishaccents.
We have this conversation allthe time.
I don't know where it comesfrom because they're surrounded
by all these different accents,especially Grenadian, but they
have the most British accent outof all the kids, um, and
obviously some of it's down toOliver and I still having ours,
and you know they're with us allthe time, our school and

(18:32):
nursery, um.
So I think that's been probablythe biggest struggle, um, and
it's quite disheartening attimes because it's if somebody's
willing to have theconversation with you or not,
because you know, I've walkedinto a store and had names
shouted at me and I'm a bit like, why like?
And I'll say to them you knowwhy have you said that?

(18:53):
And it's not so to get into anargument, I genuinely want to
have a conversation with youbecause people have children all
around the world nowadays andthat's just, I guess, the norm,
for whatever your reasons are.
And you know, we've settledhere now.
We're no longer what you wouldcall expats, we are now

(19:17):
immigrants of Grenada.
I mean, that's, this is wherewe will live for the rest of our
lives, foreseeably, um.
So I think that's been a reallybig struggle, but I think,
trying to have the conversationswith people and say I totally
appreciate why you have thisstereotype, but moving forward

(19:39):
for the next generation.
What can we all do and worktogether so that this doesn't
carry on, because we're nevergoing to move forward?
Grenada is still a verydeveloping country, so you've
got to pass this on to the nextgeneration in a better state
than it is, and that involvesideals, mindset, everything like

(20:01):
that.
So I think that has been mybiggest struggle, um, and it's
shared by a lot of people ofdifferent backgrounds, but I
think for me that's justsomething that we experience I'd
say what all of our near enoughon a daily basis.
I used to shrug it off a lotand then I realized I'm actually
not doing any service to thegirls doing that, because it's

(20:23):
something that if they see thatI just ignore it all the time,
then it's not fair.
And the biggest turning point onit was when our eldest came
home from school one day and shewas in tears and she was like
I'm the wrong color and theysaid I'm not grenadian and my
hair is wrong and all of that.
I thought she's three.
Like no child at that ageshould ever be feeling like that

(20:48):
, and it's the conversationsthat happen at home.
I'm fully aware of that.
But, like I said, it's thenwhen somebody talks to me about
it, I'm like do you want to havea conversation with me about it
?
Because if we're both open,then we can have a conversation.
But if you're just going to sithere and tell me everything
that is wrong about thecolonization, everything that
happened, nobody's ever going tosit there and argue with you

(21:12):
and say that what happened wasright wasn't by any means.
But if you're going to tell usall with the same brush, I can't
have a conversation with youand we're never going to move
forward with that.

I think that's the biggest one for me yeah, I
think we've had thatconversation before and I
appreciate that about both ofyou so much.
So what about for you, oliver?
What is some of the biggestchallenges you've had in
building those type ofrelationships in Grenada?

I don't think I've had challenges per se, um, I
mean, a lot of the people that Ideal with are outside of
Grenada because my business ispredominantly US, uk based.
The challenges that I've reallyhad is when it comes to me, is

(22:02):
trying to network here becauseit's a small community and
they're still very muchdeveloping.
They're still very muchdeveloping.
There isn't the type ofbusiness gravitas and mentality
locally that you would find inother countries and that's

(22:23):
what's missing Now, again, stilldeveloping, still small
Considerations against otherislands you know you look at
places like solution, 300, 300,000 people, trinidad, you know a
million, somewhere like that.
You know we're 115 000 people,circus something like that.
Um, and the businesses that wehave here are built out of

(22:45):
necessity, so insurancecompanies, cell phone companies,
car companies, like everydayneeds, whereas the business that
I create for my training or myconsulting or anything like that
, there isn't really.
There is need, but only in asmall minute pocket of

(23:07):
industries and businesses hereat grenada.
So for me, when I've workedwith hotels here in grenada or
when I've worked with cell phonecompanies here in grenada, I've
picked the niches where they'regoing to need my support and
need my help and then taking itto where I would take it to
somewhere in the us, for example.
They don't have those companieshere and that's been the

(23:27):
hardest thing.
So I go to a lot of networkingevents.
I've got another one onwednesday night that I've been
invited to by the uh tourismauthority here.
Yes, there's a lot oflike-minded people there that
want to run this business, butthey're all in the industry of
either hotel or something that's.
That's generic for tourism andI think that's the the
difficulty here.
I want to go to conferences andevents where I go and meet a

(23:49):
lot of people and I have friends, friends in all these other
islands, that every week they'reat a conference, they're at an
event, they're networking.
I'm like I went to one lastmonth, I'm going to one this
week, probably not going to bethe next one until January,
february, and that's a bigchallenge for me, especially in
my industry, because I have somuch to give, especially from a

(24:11):
training perspective.
I ironically had thisconversation yesterday with
somebody.
I spoke to somebody recentlyand I offered a customer service
course for free to somebody Iknow, a friend, because they're
having customer service issues,and their response was it
wouldn't really be accepted andthey don't think any changes

(24:34):
would happen, and I think that'sthe mentality here is no one's
willing to change, no one'swilling to drive forward.
There are don't get me wrong,I'm not saying that's not
everybody, but there is a and,alex, you can attest to this.
There is a fine line betweenpeople willing to and wanting to
change and see a differenceversus things that are just
going to continue on as they areand they're not going to change
, they're not going to develop.
And that is one of the hardestthings I find here is people not

(24:58):
wanting to take that next step,not wanting to push for the
next envelope.
You know that's a big strugglefor me.

But I don't and again, we were part of the same
conversation yesterday.
I don't know if it's peopledon't want to, because I see a
lot of people across theCaribbean, especially in Grenada
, who have initiative and theyhave these great ideas.
I think where I haveexperienced the problem and have

(25:27):
seen it firsthand is going backto what you said earlier,
oliver, about the businesseshere.
A lot of them are verylegacy-based businesses who are
either owned by families, soit's just been passed on
generation to generation, oryou've got people who've been in
these roles for such a longtime that it's just that's how
it's always been done.
So they're firstly, not open tochange, which then trickles

(25:52):
down.
So the people who have theseideas or these initiatives or
sit there and go, like theexample I gave earlier about the
bank, when the girl said, ohwell, I don't know, I'm pretty
sure she was very switched on.
I mean I was talking to her thewhole 45 minutes.
She was doing the, the adminpart very intelligent girl.

(26:12):
She, in my opinion, would havehad a totally different process
in her head.
I don't always think there's aan avenue for them to feel safe
and comfortable and expressing apotential change or an idea
because, like I said, the legacyor the family businesses and
this is a general statement,there will always be exceptions

(26:32):
to this that well, that's justhow it's always been done.
But on your point, oliver, aboutour businesses, I think we've
kind of spoofed them in a waythat our business doesn't just
have to be in Grenada, becausethat would naturally limit us.
So I'm US and Canada and I'minternational, but my main focus

(26:54):
is US and Canada and same foryou, oliver.
Like we've had to do that justbecause we love the life down
here and, like I said earlier,like we're not expats in Grenada
, we are based here, we'reimmigrants Like that's the term
that you want to use and there'sjust not going to be enough
business here for us to havesuccessful businesses.

(27:16):
So we've had to balance thefact that we still want to be
based in Grenada, have the girlsraised here, but we also want
to run successful businesses.
So I will push Grenada as muchas I can for my travel business,
but that's not always going tobe people's priority.

I think you both kind of shed light on a
topic that I love talking about,and it's called fearless
organizations and it reallycomes down to.
It's not necessarily a cultureof bullying rather than a
culture of not wanting to createissues or extra things, and
it's not necessarily eitherabout necessarily being
suppressed rather than practicesthat have been put into place

(27:56):
to where it becomes acceptableand standard and norm for people
.
And then you have people likeme.
They're like wake up.
And then I become the rufflingfeathers, the the big b, because
it's like why won't you justshut up?
But when a guy goes in, itcould be like a tolerance, a
different thing, and you can saythat it's a female thing versus
a male thing.
But I don't believe that either, because I feel like when a
male goes in, it could be like atolerance, a different thing,
and you can say that it's afemale thing versus a male thing
.
But I don't believe that either, because I feel like when a

(28:17):
male goes in stronghold, theydon't want to continue working
with them either.
Sometimes the people thatreally do evolve, change, if
that makes sense, um 100%.

I mean, I saw it for men and women at my old
company and you're just satthere, like you're, you're
giving a problem that you wantsolved.
Five people are giving you male, female, different ages, all of
that, are giving you fivedifferent potential solutions,
but you're still finding issueswith every single one.
So what's?

(28:48):
What is the issue?
Because obviously what we'redoing isn't working.
So let's, let's change it like,let's change up, and it could
still fail.
That's fine, but at leastyou've tried something different
.
Yes, and I don't think itmatters who presents the idea
like, but then I guess that alsocomes down to the teamwork and
you trusting each other and allof that and the whole infighting

(29:11):
that can happen there.
So no, we're not going to fixit all, melissa.

It's not overnight, it's okay.

I'm thinking about that.
It's a work in progress whenwe're 90 years old, both of us,
yes, we did a little bit.

And don't forget, just to add to that people love
to moan, Not just me, I mean I'mtalking globally.

Yes, that's true.
Well then, thinking about that,what advice would you guys give
someone considering starting anew business in a completely new
place or culture?

I honestly you've got to.
You've really got to go to theplace first.
I mean, we've seen it so manytimes, oliver, that people have
come in and I will say the wordexpert on this one because they
were only ever going to be herea short time.
And I guess in life there'salways situations where you take

(30:10):
what you can and you're notgoing to give much back, and
that's that's just certainpeople's personalities, but
they've not done their researchon the location.
So I'll use Grenada in thisexample and then like used to a
lot of people like to moan.
So then it's an issue oneverything like why can't I get
this on island and why can't I?
Now?
I'm like because that's thebeauty of Grenada, like it's

(30:33):
it's probably one of the lastislands in the Caribbean that is
largely untouched.
I mean, it's the tourism side'sgreat about, obviously, like
that brings a lot of awarenessabout Grenada and showcases just
how gorgeous this island is andthe people and the culture and
all of that.
But we're still very much notas developed as St Lucia with

(30:53):
the big shopping malls andeverything like that.
So things aren't easilyaccessible here and that's why I
always say to people if you'rethinking of moving to Grenada or
another island.
Come and try it out, and notfor a two-week holiday, I mean
like rent an Airbnb, rentsomething and literally live
your life like you would be dayto day if you were going to move

(31:13):
here, because when you've gotkids and Halloween's coming up
or Christmas or whatever, youcan plan ahead.
I mean the girls Christmaspresents I brought back from New
York last month.
I hope customs immigrationdon't watch it.
You know it's things like that.
Immigration, don't watch it.

(31:34):
Uh, you know it's things likethat, you.
But then that's also the beautyof it because it's not as
materialistic here.
But you do just make do withstuff and it's like, oh sorry,
kids, like we missed the windowof that being shipped, so you're
just gonna have to wait untilafter Christmas.
Now we had the conversationyesterday, oliver, that if we
want to order some certainthings now, it's not going to
get here till Christmas.
It just is what it is.
But I think my main advice isdefinitely spend time here, not

(31:57):
on a, not on a vacation or aholiday, and also really
understand the culture and thepeople, because you will bring a
side and a perspective of that.
But this is the people's, thisis their home, this is their
culture and this is their land.
And if you don't go in withthat respect, then why are you
here?
You've really got to immerseyourself in that, and I think

(32:20):
it's just that's why I reallyget annoyed with people who come
in and, like I said, they moanabout things and why can't I
just get a McDonald's?
There's no McDonald's inGrenada, which people find
laughable, and I'm like becausethis is just Grenada, like you
like it or you like it, and ifyou don't like it, then find
somewhere else that you want togo.

(32:41):
But it's just that.
Respect for the islands and thecultures and I think that's it.
And time, just get used toisland time.

And just to add from my side I think this is a
really good point witheverything when it comes to
either ordering or gettingthings and selling a business in
another location, 100% do it.
But, as Alex said, figure itout, understand it right.
I'm part of a couple ofFacebook groups for, like,
tourism, expats, people who livehere, things like that, and I

(33:12):
see people posting that groupall the time going, hey, cool.
So look, guys, I need someinsight on starting a business
in Grenada.
I'm like, first of all, don'tput this in a Facebook group,
because you're just going to getstupid answers, right, but
they're putting in there like wewant to come over, we want to
start a business.
The idea behind the business issetting up, I don't know, like a
food truck, for example,because it was one I saw

(33:34):
recently and then literally notnegatively, everybody's then
commented and held and gone likedude, have you ever been here?
Because one food trucks aren'tgoing to work in Grenada,
because everybody knows wherethey're eating.
As Alex said earlier, food is abig thing in this country.
Everyone knows where they'reeating.
As Alex said earlier, food is abig thing in this country.
Everyone knows where they'reeating and if people go to this
new place.
Yeah, they'll go to it forthree days and then they'll

(33:55):
forget it exists.
But then secondly, like cost offood imports, cost of equipment
, cost of this, cost of that,cost of that Usually when we
order anything to bring it over,there's usually between 25% and
60% surcharge in taxes, andthat's not including shipping,
handling, consolidation oranything else.
So a $1,000 order is easilygoing to cost us somewhere like

(34:16):
$1,750 to $2,000 to get andreceive from Amazon, for example
.
And you just need to thinkthings through and that's my
biggest piece of advice foranybody doing this Make sure you
understand where you're going.
I mean, let alone just beingyou know.
I mean technically, you know wewe got told that you know when

(34:37):
we're coming over here, we'realiens, so it's going to cost us
more to get stuff, this andthat and the other you know, and
everything else.
And I think, being aware of allof that and say which a lot of
people will do.
And nowadays you can get yourdigital nomad visas and go be a
digital employer somewhere, andall these islands have all of
these digital visas, which isgreat.
But if you want to set up abusiness that's going to run
local, you've got to know yoursurroundings, you've got to

(34:58):
understand it, you've got to beable to be sustainable, because
living in these islands is notcheap by far.
I would probably say thatsometimes we probably spend more
in a month here living than wewould do with all of our
expenses back in the UK.
So don't get me wrong.
You can get by depends on whatyou're doing.
But schooling and everythingelse is ridiculous.
And then also just to add tothat as well be aware of where

(35:21):
you're going, be aware of theislands that you're going to,
the countries that you're goingto, and it's not what you see in
a brochure.
We had a friend come over acouple of years ago.
I asked him what he liked, whathe didn't like, and he was like
, yeah, do you know what?
I just thought it was going tobe more white, tropical, sandy
beaches and palm trees anddrinking rum and coconuts on the
beach every day.
I'm like, yeah, because that'swhat the hotels want to sell you

(35:42):
in a brochure, that's what theywant you to see.
That it's like, yeah, well, youknow, it's just, it was more
like just like normal life, buton an island.
And, yeah, there was a coupleof beaches I was like yes
because you're not going to anall-inclusive luxury resort.
Get that in your brain, so justmake sure you set your
expectations right I love that.

One stick with the all-inclusive resort got it
.
I'm just playing.
So how do you balance stayingtrue to yourselves while
integrating into a new community?

I don't want to say cheated.
But we, because of how we werebrought in for the company.
We were brought in for apurpose right, so we were
brought in.
I, the company, we were broughtin for a purpose right, so we
were brought in.
I don't know about all theother islands, but I know,
specifically in Grenada, that ifthey want to bring in a
non-Grenadian, they have toevidence that their job, role

(36:42):
and their responsibilities itcouldn't be completed, or
whatever, by a Grenadian, likethey'd have to go externally.
So, because I came in to do ajob I guess it was not how I
approached it, but I've come into do this job and I obviously

(37:05):
need all of your support on thisand and I need you to show me
around the island and understandthe cultures and everything
like that.
To give you an example, welanded on the Friday, we started
work on the Monday that's howquick it was, so there was no
like.
And that weekend we literallywere looking for a house in
Torrential Thunderstorm.

It's great welcome to Grenada.
Listening to the.

I feel like you.
Just at that point you were init.
So you're like this, is it?
So the balance, I guess, isyou've really got to know
yourself.
And when I say that is, don'tcome in like a bull in a china
shop, go back to respecting thecultures, the customs, the

(37:50):
traditions, but also be reallyopen-minded that some people
like you are anywhere in theworld.
Some people are just not goingto accept you, and that's fine,
but then you've got to have openconversations with them and
really set a tone and a boundarythat I'm coming in to do this.
I need to understand what youneed from me, whether it's a

(38:11):
feeling you want a specific.
Whatever the outcome is whatyou need from me so that we can
work together and do this.
It can't be you versus them andit's got to be that
conversation.
I always go back to this sayingand I said it in a really
simplistic way to our eldest theother day and I said you know,

(38:33):
sometimes in life you have thesefriends or these people like
life's an elevator, right, youhave, hopefully, 99 floors on
this elevator, but you'restarting at zero and if you're
really lucky, you're going tomeet your best friend at nursery
.
They're going to be with you allthe way up to your 99th floor.
But sometimes you're going toget off and have people get off,

(38:55):
and some people are going tocome in at certain levels, and
it's just knowing as well whoyou are and what, who you need
to work with you if that makessense, and some people you've
just got to meet them where theyare.
But and again that goes acrossthe world and all the different
cultures, that some peoplearen't going to want you to

(39:15):
succeed or anything like that,and that's when you're just like
that's fine, you're not readyfor this and we're going to move
along anyway.
Um, but I guess that's prettymuch how I balance it.
And just again, it doesn'tmatter where you are in the
world.
Having a a really, reallystrong group of people around
you, I think, is key forpersonal and business success

(39:36):
and outside of your relationship, because, oliver, you're not my
best friend, I'm so sorry.

Oliver, she just pointed out as far as
sometimes people aren't going toreally want us there and
sometimes it might create afeeling of being an outsider.
How well, I guess I'll frame itdifferently.
What have you learned aboutovercoming these senses and
actually creating a sense ofbelonging?

do you know?
I mean a tough question, but agreat one, I think, for me.
I mean just echoing what Alexsaid a minute ago because
obviously, for for me, thisreally sets some people either
up for success with belonging ornot.
And when we had other expatsjoin us at our previous company
out here in the islands or evento any of the other islands of

(40:24):
this hotel chain we worked forAlex and I were never the balls
in China's shops shops and a fewof the others weren't, and they
understood and they got itbecause that was the type of
people we were.
But then we would have otherpeople come in and would have a
mindset and a culture of, let'ssay, the uk, canada or the us

(40:48):
where they could get things likethat, and that would set
everybody apart and there wouldbe many disagreements on using
good terminology, on setting thetone for the success of what
you're asking.
But what we would notice veryquickly is how these people

(41:14):
would come and go very quickly.
And you know I was there for afew years Alex was there.
What six years, I want to say,you know, and that kind of shows
that if you pick it up and youunderstand it, you can be there
for the long haul, somethinglike this, especially if you're

(41:36):
going in as an expat, if you'resitting up your own business,
that's, that's you.
But again, you've still got toappreciate where you're going to
for that success journey, right, um, but we would see people
coming and going because theyget frustrated with these things
.
I mean, don't go wrong, I getfrustrated.
My biggest pet peeve has goteverything to do with work.
It's learner drivers.
But learner drivers in Grenada,learner drivers in the rest of

(41:56):
the world right, that is mybiggest pet peeve in the world.
But do you know what?
That's a really good example.
I should just show you howthings are different.
Is they still teach handsignals when you're learning to
drive here, right, so they havestill got the swan, the turn,
the this, slow down the compass,like they're still teaching
that.
But if you don't laugh at itevery time oh, it winds me up so

(42:23):
much but if you don't laugh atit every time, you aren't going
to have the success, and I kindof hope that was a roundabout
way of answering your questionthere.
But these, these are the littlethings that really make a
difference love that.

Looking back, how has this experience changed
you, both personally orprofessionally?

I like how you both start laughing but don't
come off mute, mainly killedeach other, got divorced,
everything in between, um, Ithink I don't know if it's age
becoming a mum, all of that.
I think the more you travel andyou're exposed to other

(43:07):
cultures and nationalities andall of that, you just have a
greater understanding andappreciation, not just for what
you've had but for what you havenow.
I mean all of our friends andfamily back home are so jealous
of the life our girls livebecause it is so simplistic.
I mean they're two and four,they are island girls through

(43:31):
and through, clothing optionaland it's just, it is.
I mean, you come to our house.
I can't ever promise.
Well, we're potty training atthe moment, so Coco is a
separate kettle of fish but andI mean she's a redhead, so a
redheaded grenadian is just prayfor everybody in that scenario.

(43:52):
But how it's changed me is Ijust appreciate like little
things and the sense ofcommunity and it's.
It's really solidified some ofthe stuff that I already knew in
England about your communityand everything like that and
having a strong circle.
But when you live pretty muchhalfway across the world from

(44:13):
some of your closest friends whoyou've known for x amount of
time, that really builds it more.
But also, time is nothing.
We've met people here all about, haven't we?
Personal and business, that is,their lifelong friends.
Because you're in thissituation together where you're
like we've got limited resources, this is the problem and we're
all just going to have to figureout a way to work towards the

(44:36):
solution.
Um, but just, we're alwaysgoing to be like some of the
most blessed people because we,you know, every time somebody
hears that we live in Grenada,they're like I'm getting on the
plane and I'm coming to visityou and they do.

They do get on a plane, to the point where an old
landlord of mine literallytexted me was like hey, we're
coming in April, we just bookedour flights.
What were you saying?
But like, it's like you'regonna stay with you 10 days.
Um, we're just echoing thatright.
I think the the biggest thingwith this is we would much

(45:13):
rather have people come andvisit us than go and visit back
in the uk.
Why would I pay money to get ona plane, hire an airbnb, drive
around a freezing cold countryfor two weeks, going to see
everybody living out of asuitcase, when I can say hey,
family and friends, come andstay with us, we've got a spare
room, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, go and stay in
there and come and have twoweeks in the Caribbean.

(45:34):
It's a completely differentballgame the community, the
camaraderie.

You don't tell people two weeks.
That's your problem.
You never give them a timeline.

Yeah, I do.
Yes, I do.
People have a two-week limit,that's the.
That's it.
Two weeks and you're out.
Um, but the difference issaturday.
In the uk, we would go out andprobably go to some trampoline
park with the kids or the cinemaor whatever things like you
know, the usual stuff, right,but this is where we're raising

(46:05):
island children, and what I loveabout what our girls get to
experience is and this for thoselistening, it's not what it
sounds, but we go hashing on aSaturday, right, hashing is
basically where you go out intothe bush, you go out into the
rainforest, you go somewhere andyou do a between a two and a

(46:27):
six mile, whether you're walking, running or or whatever hike
through the bush, through therainforest, through the
mountains, through rivers,through waterfalls, and
everybody gathers, everybodyfrom every walk of life expats,
immigrants, locals, tourists,holidaymakers, you name it.
Everybody gets together.
It's a big party, there's a bigsetup, there's music, there's

(46:49):
everything.
You meet at a playing field andsomebody sets this trail.
You do the different trailsthat you do.
We did this on Saturday, right,we went out into the rainforest
.
It rained for 45 minutes.
And when I say rain itabsolutely poured it down on
Saturday and all four of us werein shorts and t-shirts, getting

(47:10):
soaked wet through.
And you do the walk, you getback and then, everybody's
drinking.
They crack out the rum, theycrack out the beers.
It's a party.
And that's exactly what aSaturday is here in Grenada.
There are so many othertraditions.
I mean, there are so many otherislands that hash as well.
These are the things that Iknow, alex, and I know myself.

(47:30):
We want our kids growing up toexperience and see, because it's
going to make them stronger,growing up with snakes and all
this kind of stuff in the bush,right, even though my
four-year-old screams ateverything.
But that is the different, thedifference that we want for them
.
That's what we want to see tothem and that's what is so
special about being here.

(47:51):
And we thank Grenada you knowGrenada for having us here,
because they've allowed us tostay here and do everything and
set up our own businessesbecause they have, whereas quite
easily, when we decided toleave employment, they're going
to kick us out and say bang, allright, fair enough.
They probably don't want tokick out two of their own

(48:16):
grenadian citizens are children,but that's, that's what it is
for us, and that's that's whatmakes it so special to be here.

Thank you so much.
I really appreciate y'allsharing your stories.
The key insight that I tookaway from this conversation two
of them stood out the most wasone know your space or where
you're going to be going intobefore you really go in there
and respect it.
Um, second is just more aboutintegrating with the community

(48:39):
and really thinking about howyou can work together,
respecting those conversations.
Is there anything you guys wantto add to that?

no, but thank you so much for having us and I
just want everyone to come toGrenada, but not all at once and
they're not staying with uswell, they come for two weeks.

I mean, that's the limit if that limits, at
least there's boundaries.

Make sure you keep them, though and if anybody is
coming down here, please bringme a quarter pound of a cheese
from the donald's well to allour listeners.

If you're feeling inspired by oliver and
alexandra's journey, I challengeyou to reflect on how you can
step into your own and actuallystep out of that comfort zone
yourself.
So what's one bold step thatyou can take this week to
actually work towards your goals?
Go ahead and share yourthoughts with us on social media
or comment in the section.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe to
Structuring Chaotic Minds andshare with a friend who needs

(49:40):
some inspiration.
You can follow us on any ofyour favorite platforms and go
ahead and share for updates andstories.
Next week, we will be divinginto education pieces and
actually talking about thetrauma and chaos that is going
on in those new education spaceshere in the United States and
across the globe.
You won't want to miss it.
Oliver and Alexandra, thank youagain for joining us and

(50:02):
sharing your inspiring journey.
Where can our listeners connectwith you guys and learn more
about your work?

I think for me, the easiest way to connect with me
is on LinkedIn, so just find meup.
Olivercat C-A-T-T.
Can't miss me.

How about you, Alexandra?

And same for me.
I just do LinkedIn.

Perfect.
Well then, I will be sharingboth of your LinkedIn profiles
in the comment section in caseanyone is curious to see more,
and I really like watching y'allon social media for LinkedIn,
so I think that would besomething fun for anybody to
follow.
Thank you, guys for listening,for Structuring Chaotic Minds.
Until next time, remember toembrace the chaos and turn it

(50:43):
into growth.
See you soon.
Thank you so much for joining mefor today's episode.
To catch up on the rest of theseason, visit
structureandchaoticmindscom ortake a quick browse on your
current app to see whichepisodes resonate with you.
If you struggle with your ownmental wellness or even just
balancing life, we have a teamof individuals at our site who

(51:03):
can help.
You can visitstructureandrelationscom and
find a coach or mentor fit foryou.
Thank you for joining me onceagain, Melissa Franklin, on this
episode of Structuring ChaoticMinds.
Stay structured and smiling.

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