EP 261 Activate Your Potential: Rick Tamlyn on Living Your Best Life

In this engaging episode of the Stuck In My Mind Podcast titled "Activate Your Potential: Rick Tamlyn on Living Your Best Life," host Wize El Jefe welcomes Dr. Rick Tamlyn, an internationally renowned speaker, coach, and creator of the Bigger Game. Tamlyn's mission revolves around helping people design and live meaningful and impactful lives, a theme that resonates throughout the conversation.

The episode begins with an intriguing discussion about the origin of the Bigger Game, a philosophy, and framework that Tamlyn developed over his 38-year career in personal growth and coaching. He describes it as an evolving concept, manifesting in various forms such as a book, workshop, a talk, and possibly a movie in the future. Rooted in the idea that the happiest people are those who are up to something bigger than they know how to create, the Bigger Game encourages individuals to view life as a game filled with opportunities.

Tamlyn opens up about a pivotal moment in his life, sharing his personal journey of coming out as a gay man in the 1970s, navigating the AIDS crisis in New York City, and overcoming societal judgment and challenges. This personal struggle propelled him into coaching, leading him to become an advocate for helping others live authentically. Tamlyn emphasizes the importance of living a life aligned with one's values and shares insights on how to define and pursue what constitutes a great life.

The episode delves deep into the elements of the Bigger Game, highlighting how people can push past fear and comfort zones to pursue their dreams and live out their potential. Tamlyn presents the nine-square Bigger Game board, which acts as a tool for assessing where individuals stand in their journey and what actions they need to take for growth. He articulates several foundational squares such as Hunger, Compelling Purpose, Gulp, Investment, Allies, and more, explaining how each plays a critical role in the game of life.

Throughout the conversation, Wize El Jefe and Rick Tamlyn bond over shared philosophies and experiences. Wize reflects on his personal journey, opening up about his fears, losses, and eventually finding purpose and joy through podcasting. His story exemplifies the principles of the Bigger Game—embracing discomfort, confronting fear, and taking bold actions to make a meaningful impact.

As the episode continues, Wize and Rick explore the concepts of living boldly, the importance of self-reflection, and ways to maintain motivation and inspiration when helping others achieve their dreams. Rick, drawing from his extensive experience, offers valuable insights into how people can uncover their life’s compelling purpose through experimentation and reflection, advocating for trying different things to discover what truly resonates.

The episode concludes with Rick emphasizing the importance of not worrying too much about what others think and embracing one's unique journey. His parting advice encourages listeners to play their own bigger games, live authentically, and continually strive for a more meaningful existence. Throughout the discussion, both Rick and Wize convey a shared commitment to impacting the lives of others, offering encouragement to anyone seeking to unlock their potential.

Listeners of this episode are treated to an inspiring and heartfelt dialogue filled with practical wisdom from Rick Tamlyn’s personal experiences and professional expertise. The conversation serves not only as a guide to living a fuller life but also as a testament to the power of personal transformation and intentional living.

Episode Transcript

(00:41):
And welcome to another episode of Stuck in My
Mind podcast. I am your host, w I z e. My
next guest is an internationally renowned speaker, coach, and
creator of the bigger game. His life mission is to help
people design and live a life they can be proud of.
Welcome to the show, doctor Rick

(01:03):
Tamlin. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Cool.
There you go. First of all, I love your opening video, and I love the
name. Like I mean, how many of us relate to stuck in our
mind? I mean, come on. Every every single one of us. Every single one of
us. One of us. This is the thing. Right? Oh
my god. Anyway, bless you for for,

(01:25):
opening up the can of worms called our minds.
So so so, doc, what what what inspired you to create the bigger
game, and how has it evolved over the years? Sure. Well, first of
all, it it is a it's a philosophy. It's a book. It's a workshop. It's
a talk, And maybe someday it'll be a movie. So it it it will
you know how a philosophy can become a thing. So I've been very proud of

(01:48):
this this concept, finding many different ways to express
itself in the world. Right? So, here's the bottom
line. I've been in the personal growth life coaching
space now for 38 years.
And, I will really short the bottom line is short
shorthand the story. A friend of mine who was in the business as well

(02:11):
many, many years ago, we started to collaborate and
converse around what was having our coaching clients. What what
was the difference? What was the differentiator between coaching clients who were more
successful than others? You know, the life they wanted, the
dreams they wanted, the careers they wanted, all the wanting. Right? All the hunger.
And we came up with this very simple idea, and it's not gonna be

(02:34):
rocket science, everybody. And, you know, Will, is it Will? Right? Will, I just wanna
be wise. Either one. It's fine.
This very simple concept that the people were who were up to
something bigger than they knew how to create were
the happiest people. And,
you know, game was a full like, oh, there's a word. Let's

(02:57):
not have it be a bigger goal. You know, let's have it be a
bigger game. And so that that also implied a level of
play and a way to think about life is just
a game, and I wanna be very careful how I say that. There's horrible things
that happen and there's losses. But if you can kinda
get, like, wider and meta view your life and look at it as

(03:19):
just a big gigantic field of opportunity
on the field of opportunity, and we're making it up as
we go. Another one of my favorite phrases is we get to make it up
as we go. That's the impetus for the for the
philosophy, and then it turned itself into a model.
It became a game board like a tic tac toe board,

(03:41):
and then it became a workshop. And then it became a leadership development program,
which I did inside fortune 1 a 100 a 100 companies still deliver this
as a team building workshop. And there's 9 elements to,
quote, unquote, playing a bigger game. I won't go through
them all right now, but there's the 9 right there.
Right? And and it's pretty straightforward,

(04:05):
to you using your language here, Will, is that it it helps me
get over myself and get on with the impact I wanna have with my
life. And my orientation towards helping people have amazing
lives is think about the impact you wanna have with your life
rather than just the income and all the other other standard stuff. So
there's the there's the high level answer to that.

(04:28):
I use it with my clients 1 on 1. I use it with my leadership
people. I use it as a workshop. I'm doing a class for it
tomorrow in the world as a as a as a freebie into
my into my community.
Because I think, again, when you get to the end of your life,
we all know this concept. You look back or people talk

(04:50):
about, that's the impact I had with my life. People never go, you
know, wow. Look at how much money they made. Like, who who gives it?
Right? That's not what we're looking at when we end our life. So this is
sort of let's advance that conversation now.
You know, I think that's the coaching industry in a nutshell. What am I
focusing on? Because we all know metaphysically and

(05:13):
quantum physically, what we focus on expands. Mhmm.
Right? You know, you think about fear, you can find things to be
scared of in a minute. When you think about possibility, you can find possibility.
So I'm singing to the I'm, you know, preaching to the choir because, you
know, here we are in the same business. But I think people still
need to be reminded of, like, do you know that you're in charge of this

(05:35):
thing called your life? Well, if if we if people
had the answers to it, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Absolutely. We
wouldn't have podcasts. We wouldn't have books. We wouldn't have,
you know so it's sort of the plight of the human condition that Yeah.
I think keeps you and I engaged in the conversation.
Yeah. Can can can you share that that pivotal moment in your

(05:57):
life that led you to to pursue coach and and and
leadership development? Yeah. That's a great question.
It's probably a couple things, but I'll pick I'll pick the one
that's the hardest to admit. You know, the one
that's like, oh god. I really want the world to know this, but I'm just
gonna do it. Right? So I'm a gay man, gay gay white guy. Right?

(06:20):
And, I survived AIDS in New York City. K?
I I don't have AIDS, but, I mean, that was a really dark time.
Right? Very dark time. I'm a I'm a New York City kid, so I know.
So you right? I mean but the this is
kind of a weird connect the dot. But, you
know, half the world thinks I shouldn't be on the planet.

(06:42):
Right or wrong. It's a moral conversation. I'm not here to change anybody's
moral viewpoint, but that awareness of coming
out and to be with that much judgment, because I won't
go into the details, but it didn't go so well with the family in the
beginning. It didn't go with well, with my Christian upbringing. I mean, this was
the seventies. Okay. Let's all put it into context. Right?

(07:05):
But that personal moment of, like, am I gonna be
fully out in myself in the world, or am I gonna retreat and
sort of live a, dare I say, sort of
closeted standard get through, you know, not
authentic life. We've all heard that word. And that authentic word
was like, no. No. I you know, and I moved to California. I did the

(07:26):
classic gay man thing, moved to California, find
my way, find my work, find my thing.
And I bumped into somebody who said, you know, you have a
story to tell. You know, there's this thing called
coaching. I didn't even know what it was. And I went to this workshop, and
it was basically, like, have a conversation with another human being about

(07:47):
living a more authentic real life.
Like, oh, I get it. I kinda went through that. Now how can I
help other people? I happen to be at the ground level of,
an amazing organization. There were 5 of us in the beginning called the
coaches training institute. And there were 3
amazing human beings, Laura Whitworth, Karen Kimsey House, and Henry

(08:10):
Kimsey House. And these three people started the coaches training institute. And
I took their first workshop, and the rest was history. Because
there was an experience and a conversation I'd had in that room about
myself and life that I'd never experienced before. And I said, I want this
for other people. Because as you know, Will,
coaching is a conversation. It is. Your life is designed by the

(08:32):
conversations you have. Yeah. Right? And that that
coaching conversation over time starts to generate
my life. That's why we talk to a coach once or twice or 4 times
a month because I need a conversation to keep
me on track with the life I want. So
there's the bottom line, I guess, sort of

(08:54):
ish. So Bottom lining is not my best
suit. So how do you how do you
define a a great life, and what steps can people take to
start creating their great life today? Yeah. It's a
great question. Well, one of the things I was trained in, and I know your
audience probably gets this, and I will. You've probably heard this. But when we discover

(09:16):
what matters, I e, our values and our value system, like, like, I have a
value called creativity. Yeah. Right? It has to happen. Like, I'm writing a
second book. I'm working on a movie. I, I'm
gonna take, a painting class. I'm taking improv.
Like, my creativity needs a home. Mhmm. And that's a
value that I honor called creativity. So when you link,

(09:38):
you know, when you think about a fulfilling life and I wanna make a distinction,
not just a happy life. Happy sort of like, oh, it's all joy
filled all the time. Let's get real. We bounce between
mood swings and it's amazing. And then I have a bad day and then I
have a great day and then I we we all know this. Right? It's
a wild ride of a roller coaster. But if we can kind

(10:00):
of feel the true north of what are my values and what
matters to me as best I can day to
day and have experiences that
align with those values as best I can day to
day, then I mostly go to bed like that was a
that was a well used day. Now the other thing I wanna bring in is,

(10:22):
you know, bigger game is a philosophy of, like, I
actually had an intention to make a difference today. Yeah.
It's ironic. I know you're live right now, but, you know, today's January
7th. Not I don't wanna get political, but I just
wanna underline how our country right now is honoring Jimmy
Carter's death. Mhmm. A 100 years.

(10:45):
First of all, like, oh, my God. Talk about wanting to live a long life.
Here's what I make up. The man was committed to making a difference
until his final breath. Yes. That's what kept him alive.
I mean, you know, he's he's literally building homes. We know the story, right? He's
building homes 1 hammer at a time, one nail at a time. He's trying to
have world peace. I mean, this guy lived what I call a committed life

(11:09):
to make a difference, right, rather than just survive. And oh, my gosh. You want
to live a long life right now? That's not for
everybody. You know, I live I live in an area in the country that's
very lots of retired people. And they they shop
and they play pickleball and and no judgment of that.
But there's not a lot to make a difference there. There's just a

(11:31):
and I I am not here to to, tell people that's
not the way you should live. Right? But I know that's I'm one of those
people, and I think you're one of those people. That's why we do podcasts. That's
why we write books. That's why we're doing this. We're not new. We're not here
to tell people how to live. No. We're here to give them, examples
of of way they can travel and and and

(11:52):
and find their own path because Yep. For me, Yep.
It I didn't I didn't know my purpose in life. I I was 40 something
years old, didn't know what was I had a a good paying
job. Yeah. But I wasn't fulfilled.
Yeah. I wasn't I I have a great wife. I have
a great family, but I

(12:15):
didn't have that purpose. Yeah. That personal personal moment.
Right? Yeah. And so when I discovered, for me, podcasting
and and and discovered that I had a voice Yep. And I had
something that I was able that knew I was
gonna be this good or or do what I was doing. And
and and it's just like, wow. Yeah.

(12:38):
I've I've found what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm supposed to be helping people.
I'm supposed to be making an impact. Yep. And and and by
doing the podcast, that's what I'm doing. I'm leaving a legacy for my folks. You
are absolutely right. Because now I'm making an impact. I'm
touching people's lives. It could be 1 person, 2 people, 3 people.
Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. The fact that I'm impacting people's

(13:00):
lives, and who knows who those people are gonna go
impact, it's a ripple effect. Absolutely. I'm always whenever I say
that, it's it's to me, it's I don't I'm
not here for fame and wealth. I'm here to
make an impact. I'm here to to touch people's lives
and and let them know that they're not alone. There's other people out here who

(13:22):
have amazing stories, who have gone through struggles, who who
are who have
just just been down and out and been able to turn their life
around. And Yep. And so I'm I'm a great example. I
I've I've suffered major loss in
my life, and Mhmm. I could've used that as an excuse and and

(13:44):
and stood down in in the trenches and and and
given up on life, but that's not what that's not what was
was inside of me. It it was much more to to to
this to this journey. And when I like I said, when I
discovered podcast, it was just like, here we go.
Alright. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. Well, one of the things I

(14:06):
just it reminds me of a great three phrase
philosophy that I think you've probably heard, but you're you're right now
speaking something that I call people can live 3 one of 3 ways
in their life. Life happens to me, sort of the victim model. Right? Then this
happened to me, and I was born a gay man, and then the government turned
against me and right. Oh my right. And that's a spiral. Like, oh,

(14:28):
right. The world's against me kind of thing. To me. To me is language.
Or life happens for me. Mhmm. Life happens for me. It's realized,
oh, okay. I was born into the world in this particular body, in this particular
mind, in this particular family. You start to it's a perspective
shift. Right? And the final one, which is the one you're doing and I'm doing
is life happens through you. Yeah. And you

(14:50):
have to do something with the story Yeah. And put it
into the world. And the beautiful thing now, and here you are using it, it's
the technology to get it into the world. Oh my
god. Oh, it it's Right? It's remarkable.
Even in the last 4 years, 5 years Right? Since
pandemic, it it's it's been amazing

(15:11):
because now I've my reach is worldwide. Yes. Of course it
is. I have people listening to me in in other countries in
in in Taiwan. And I'm sure Isn't it remarkable?
India. Oh, it's amazing. So grateful. So grateful. So
many people I've been able to to interview. I've interviewed people from all over the
world. Yeah. Fantastic. To be able to to

(15:34):
see how they live and how they and how they
experience life is like, okay. Yeah. Yes. We might come from
different backgrounds, but at the core of it all, we want the
same thing. We want the same thing. Yeah. I agree. I
agree. And and there's a way in which you know? Again, I know I
started before we you push play. I just and I want everybody to hear

(15:56):
it. Like, congratulations to following that urge
to create this podcast. You probably didn't know how to do it. You probably didn't
know the technology, what microphone to buy, what button to push,
but none of that stopped you. Well, at first, it did. Of
course. That's why I named that's why I named it stuck in my mind because
You're correct. Prior to prior to, I I I

(16:19):
had I had purchased, equipment a year before I
actually launched my product. I understand. And I was just
making up excuses. Yes. Of course. I was I was I was
afraid of failing. Yep. And but I didn't what I
didn't realize was I was already failing because I wasn't doing
I wasn't attempting. I wasn't even in a job. Even trying. Yeah. I would how

(16:42):
was I how was I supposed to know that if I was gonna succeed or
fail Yeah. If I wasn't even trying? Yep. And so when I
finally decided to press record and release it,
this big weight was lifted off of me. I was like, okay. Right? I can
do this. Yeah. It's not that hard. Yeah. That's that's
creativity finally being made real.

(17:03):
Mhmm. And it feels so it's like baking a cake. It's like, oh, look
at that. Right? I mean, it's that simple. I heard something
today that I loved, but I think you'll relate to is the antidote
to anxiety is creativity.
You cannot experience anxiety and creativity at the same
time. When I'm baking a dinner or making a

(17:25):
dinner for dear friends, I am not anxious.
I'm anxious when they're eating it because I hope they like it. Enjoy it. Yeah.
Right? But I'm when I'm in the actual act of creating, I'm not
anxious. And, oh, cooking is one of my favorite things.
I I really enjoy enjoy cooking, and

(17:46):
it it's something I I I take I take real joy in
in learning new recipes and and seeing seeing my
wife's face when when she's like, wow. Where where did you learn this
at? I'm like, yo, listen. I I got my ways. So
Yeah. No. That's great. It it's it's a great
feeling from from what Finn when I when I do cook something at.

(18:08):
And then, lately, she's so proud because she's
been she's been working on help helping us eat much
more healthier. Yes. And finding way and finding ways
to enjoy Yep. These
healthy foods and and and making and making it so that
okay. Because I've never eaten cottage cheese ever.

(18:32):
And, recently, I I I've tried it, and and
and she made and she made this,
kinda like this this dessert with the cottage cheese. And Mhmm. Yeah. And
I ate it, and it was pretty good. It was really good. And I was
like, okay. I guess I I guess I can eat that cottage cheese.
I know. Right? Yeah. But it it's it's it's those moments,

(18:54):
like, when you when you experience that, it's like, okay. You
have to take that that leap. You have to take that that
that jump and then be like, you know what? Yeah. Try this. Well,
exactly, to your point. We so make up well, I don't like
cottage cheese because and then it's like, wait a minute. The cottage cheese and I'm
using this as a metaphor. It can be turned into a different form.

(19:16):
And, oh, now I like the kind of seas. Like, I mean, it's not not
a metaphor for life. It's like, oh, my God, life isn't like, wait a minute,
let me change the form of the way I look at life. Yeah. Right. I
mean, how I look at life is how I experience life. Right? Right. How I
look at the cottage cheese is how I experience the cottage cheese.
I mean, it's sort of weird to say, but you get you get the point.

(19:36):
Yeah. So so so how how do you encourage people
to step out of their comfort zones when fear hold is
holding them back? Because I know, for me, that was one of my issues.
Yeah. I know. It's so it's so great you asked that question too. I was
just chatting with a client about that this morning. We I'm I create a mastermind.
I have about 30 people in a mastermind group that we help them get their

(19:59):
work in the world and write books and create podcasts and all this kind of
stuff that you're doing. We were chatting about that.
I just think fear, by the way, it lives it just it's a part of
the deal. Right? It's just a part of the deal.
And it's a little simplistic to say this, but I think
and it's a challenging topic right now because I think we're afraid of being

(20:21):
dismissed and canceled.
And we all know we're flying. We're in this really
interesting phase if I put something into the world, I mean, right now, you and
I are chatting. We're live. The world is either
gonna go, this is cool or they're idiots.
Yeah. And you have to motor through that. Now I come out of the

(20:42):
entertainment industry. That industry
is one gigantic judgment. Right?
The movie you made was great. The movie you made sucked, and we all know
we sit in it. We sit at home and watch television. This is let me
connect the dot to this. We sit at home and judge television and
movies like this. Yeah. Right? And we tell each other that was

(21:05):
amazing. That sucked. That actor's amazing. That one's an idiot. Right? We
just do it. And so I think because we're
on the judgmental side of it a lot, therefore,
I don't wanna put myself out there because of the volume of judgment that I
bring to the table. I certainly don't wanna be up for that on the receiving
side. Yeah. I am not willing to receive that, but

(21:27):
the people who push through are the ones that make it. Mhmm.
Right? I mean, here we are. Absolutely. Yeah. So it's really
there's a lot of dimensions to this, but the psychology side of
this for me is the fear of judgment, which ultimately is
I'm going to be, you know, put out to
pasture. Mhmm. That's true. I mean, I'm even

(21:50):
going through this phase. I just had a birthday yesterday. I'm 66.
I had this moment of, like, you know, we know where the world is. Right?
Okay. Old white guy. Okay. Here we go. Am I am I even
relevant? Does anybody care what I'm writing a book? Does anybody care anymore?
I just thought I gotta write the book. You know, rather
than listen to all the voices, you know, because there's a

(22:12):
1,000,000 voices coming at us. And, again, I learned this as a gay man. I
was burning in hell at 8 in 1980. You are the
antichrist. Yeah. You know, and the government turned against
me. My religion turned against me. Everybody turned
against us. We've all had these moments, by the way. It's not
like it's unique. Yeah. We can all find

(22:33):
our place where the world said you shouldn't be the way you
are. Yeah. Absolutely. And we have to
motor through that, and that's why we have a coach and go, k. Wait a
minute. I have a mission. I'm on a mission. I'm in a mission.
So what what what's a what's a, common misconception people
have about living a life of purpose?

(22:57):
That it's really hard and it's gonna take a lot of work.
And, I just chatted with again,
I chatted with a client this morning. She was terrified of the success she was
having. She's like, oh my god. What if I
can't keep this going? And
again, I could feel the related to the acting industry.

(23:19):
Oh my god. I'm only as good as my last movie. So this
next one better be amazing. So the fear of
the keeping it going, I think is a like,
and it either will or it won't. But that's sort
of an unjustified fear. Like, it's gonna take a lot of work and,
oh my god, it's gonna take my life over. That's the other one. This is

(23:41):
gonna take over my life. I won't have choice
anymore. I won't be able to take a day off if I'm if I become
Oprah. Oh my god. What will happen?
It's like I I for me, it it was,
like I said, it took a while for me to really start my podcast
because because of fear. Of course.

(24:04):
Because I was afraid of what people would think about
me or what people would say, like, oh, what the hell do you know about
whatever the topic was or who who I'm or even
you. Right? The sound of my the sound of my voice. So, like, who do
you wanna be comfortable? Know how we look, what we sound like.
So, yeah, it it it's it it definitely was, a struggle for

(24:25):
me. Yeah. So how how And here but here you
are. I mean, again, I just wanna say, I mean, I here you are
how many platforms are we going to today? Like, 7. You rattled off 7 platforms.
Mhmm. I was like, that's fantastic. Oh, yeah. And I've I've launched, platforms. Mhmm. I
was like, that's fantastic. Oh, yeah. And I've I've launched the Internet
radio station. I've, Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Me and my
nephews me and my nephew self published his book. We've we've

(24:49):
done things that we've we
didn't think we could do because from where we've we come from, from
where where we were raised Yep. It was it was, oh,
go go to school, get a job, and and Survive. And
yeah. And Yep. But we we've done more.
We've done more stuff than

(25:11):
than we thought we would have ever had. Like, I what I the I what
I I didn't know I would have a a media company.
Yeah. And and and build and build the platforms that I'm building
and and build the relationships that I've made and the
connections that and, again, it
took it took me

(25:33):
making myself uncomfortable. Mhmm. Because I could have easily been like,
oh, I'm I I got a good job. I'm I'm good where I'm at.
Right. Just sort of Yeah. And just stay
but I I I didn't want at the end of the day at the end
of it of it all to be like,
man, I should have done this. I should have gone into podcasting. I should

(25:56):
have launched the radio. I should have done the I didn't want any of
that. Yep. I wanted it to be like,
okay. I tried it. It it it hit. It
that's wonderful. If it doesn't, I I
attempt it. I can't I can't say I didn't try.
So the fact that I I I just

(26:19):
just took that faith, that leap of faith, and and and was like, you
know what? Let me just let me just do it. One
person to and Yeah. But, of course, it took time for me to grow the
platform. Of course. Took time for me to to improve
on the quality of mic and Yep. And video. Go to the next
level. Right? Yeah. There's levels. There's levels to it. You start off

(26:42):
with what you have. With what you know?
Yeah. What yeah. And which was little at the time. Didn't know
much, and YouTube University helped me out a
lot. And I said YouTube University. Yeah. Is
that a real thing? No. It's just like a it's a
metaphor. No. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's a metaphor, but yeah. But a lot of people

(27:04):
it it it Yeah. You can learn so much if you it has I get
it. You just look up it on YouTube and kinda do it. Yeah. Right? It's
like it has a lot of information, and I didn't
know where I didn't know people who who were doing it. So
Yeah. I had to go to where was it was where it was
accessible to me. You know what's really inspiring about what you just said is

(27:25):
you you had an understanding, either consciously or unconsciously,
that you wanted to avoid regret. Mhmm.
Yeah. Like and I don't know about you, but my family
history, there's a lot of regret in my dad, especially.
He had regret. He told me before he died, he said, do not
He gave me, like, a list of do not wait for, do not expect,

(27:49):
like, go for it. Do not expect the
world to he actually said, do not expect the world to take care of you.
It's not going to. It's not its job. It's not. It's
not. And that's it's not. And it's it's it's
that's one of my issues with some of this this younger generation is,

(28:10):
they expect the world to be handed to them.
Pretty great. I know. And it's and it's not like that. It's,
it's reality will sink in and and
come and sack you a good one, and then you'd be like, oh, man. I
know. And so, oh, man. What the hell was that? And and I know.
And so it's been

(28:33):
Yeah. It's just been I can't hear you. I
totally get it. Light. Yeah. It's been light. It's I've been light the just
and and now is when I've, really
started enjoying some of the stuff. Even,
even now where I'm at, there's
things that I started

(28:59):
implementing to to to to to to go
to the next level and and and these things
that, you think that should should have been done a
while ago. But again, I'm human. I'm
still growing. I'm still learning. I'm still
getting to know who I am. Of course. And so

(29:23):
little by little, little pieces here, little piece there,
I've I've been to start building
Yeah. A better me. Yep. Well, in my language, you know,
it's like, told me to promote my own book, but you're playing a bigger game.
That's the concept. You you know? On on this game board, there's the word comfort

(29:45):
zones. You gotta leave them. You gotta ask for help, allies. You gotta take bold
action. Right? You're just one of these people. And I don't know
whether people are born with it or they find it with a good coach.
But you're one of those people that's decided I
gotta do something that grows me and challenges
me. Right? You just I I don't again, I

(30:07):
there are people who are like, no. I don't need to do then there's other
people, like, think like us who are like, okay. I gotta I gotta keep pushing
the envelope. Yeah. Yeah. It it was and
it's like like, it was something about being
creative and, everything. Honestly, prior
to this, I didn't consider myself a creative person. No.

(30:28):
No. I'm playing no. I know. I know. I played I've growing up, I
mostly played sports, and Yeah. Right. That that was my thing. And,
I I kind of, like
even when I started, I'm like, I'm not creative. I'm not a I'm not a
writer. I'm not a and then I started creating
content, and I'm and I started realizing, like, okay.

(30:51):
You got something. You you you are creative. This this right here is an art
form. What you're doing is crazy. And You bet. And
so it it's just it's
it's just been a process
where, of course, I I I have I've had
self doubt. I've I've I've battled imposter syndrome

(31:14):
and all these other things. Yeah. And all this other stuff because
of how I was just human nature. Like, people telling you, you're ugly.
What are you doing? You don't know that. This is not Exactly. Yeah. You can't.
You're not you're not supposed to be doing that. That's not that's not Jolene.
And, and You get that that's mostly jealousy?

(31:35):
Oh, yeah. It's my 99% of that is jealousy
because they don't have the they don't have the guts to do it, and so
they're gonna try to you know how it is. They wanna shut you down because
I don't have the guts to do it. Right? So
So how how has your own bigger game changed
Yeah. Over the course of your career and personal life? Yes.

(31:57):
Another great question. So I I I I guess, you know, there's your
some of you have heard this term. I'm in my 3rd act. I don't know
if that's true, but probably the last third of my life. Right? God willing, I
live another 30 years. And
I was a trainer. I mean, I still speak. I still train. I still coach,
but not unlike you. My husband and I have created

(32:21):
this sort of production company, and
we're helping other people do what we do. So it it's now
turned itself into sort of a train the trainer. You know, I'm
training people in the bigger game workshop. So there's this,
I still get asked to speak at corporate gigs and things
like that, but now I'm helping other people. So there's a bit of a legacy.

(32:45):
Like, how do you keep the message alive once I'm
gone? You know? And so we're looking into that as a business
model. How do we keep the business going if I stop doing it? So
we're kind of in that legacy, space now.
Like, what does it look like to pass this on? I'm not selling my company,
but what does it look like to pass on this philosophy?

(33:08):
So it's changed in terms of the delivery mechanisms. Right?
And the other thing that changed it, as you know, is COVID. I used to
be I traveled 200 to 300000 miles a year on planes.
That that I don't do that at all anymore. Like, I don't get on planes
at all. I don't wanna get on planes. I don't need to be on planes.
I've seen the world. God bless.

(33:28):
Now it's this. It's Zoom calls. I mean, I will
go somewhere if it's a big enough conference, but I don't
need to fly on a plane and, as much as I used to.
So the whole game has changed, because of COVID. Right? Here we
are. Thank you, Zoom. Like, oh my god. Thank you, Zoom. I came around.
Isn't it remarkable that Zoom was just kind of figuring itself out

(33:51):
when the when COVID happened. Wasn't that fascinating?
Yep. It looks like a universal, like, God came in and said, here, I'm gonna
help with this. Really interesting. And now,
there's so many different platforms that is, this is,
is it StreamYard? Yeah. I know. Me too. And, Yep.

(34:11):
It it's it's even StreamYard has evolved in in
the 2, 3 years that I've been using it, with
with how Yep. I have I I have a production studio
right here. Yes. I know. In your house. It's unbelievable. It's it's, like, in the
palm of my hand, I have a production studio where I run my
intro. I run my outro. Yep. I can I can edit the

(34:33):
video on on StreamYard? I can clip it. I can do all these different
things from the power from my
home. I know. From your home desk. Yeah. It's incredible.
And, you know, way back let's honor some people along the way. The you know,
Steve Jobs and these and and and Bill these people started
this. Right? They were like, okay. I'm gonna bring

(34:55):
creativity to your home. I mean, you know, Apple started in the I mean,
I've only owned a Apple. I never owned a PC in my life because it
was a I was a a graphic designer for 20 minutes of my life,
and Apple was the graphic designer computer. Right? That's the one you use.
So they were already in the creativity space. So he brought it, you know, let
me bring creativity to your hand, to your home, you know, and here

(35:17):
we are. It's really it's really quite and I have to say, when
people get, like, mad about it or overwhelmed by it, I
go, do you get how grateful we should be about this
remarkable technology we're in? Like, I know it can be
used in different ways and but it's like, this is
remarkable. It is. It's just remarks like magic,

(35:40):
You know? So I it's like I always remind people, look. You gotta get
the opportunity this thing is bringing to us all. Right? And here you are.
Right? You're doing a home studio. Here I am talking to you. Yeah. You know,
3,000 miles away, and it's like we're in the same room. I mean, it's remarkable.
So I'm always grateful for this. It's
been like I said, I've been able to interview people

(36:03):
from all over the world. Yeah. I know. Right? And then and
just who I I
didn't know this is gonna be like this. I know. That's so
great. And it's just,
like like you were saying, the pandemic
just changed it all around the pandemic changed that dynamic

(36:26):
that at all. And now
here we go. Had had, like,
had the pandemic not happened, had this conversation won't be happening. No. It
would not be happening. This podcast wouldn't have been created and and
everything. So things happen for a reason. Life happens for a
reason, and and so it was meant this is

(36:48):
this was my path. Like like I said, I didn't know
what my purpose was. Life happens for us. Yeah.
It does. Yeah. But prior to that, I thought life was happened against
me. Of course. That you thought life was happening to you. Oh, yeah. It was
it was just Yeah. A little bit about my I lost
my my wife, my first wife at 31. Yeah. It's what I

(37:11):
read. I'm so sorry for your loss. To it, and then it was just just
one tragedy after another. I reunited with my dad after 25
years. Only to go visit him. Okay. For the first
time, I get there sun Friday night,
the weekend of Father's Day weekend. Passed away Saturday
morning. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I

(37:32):
buried my brother and uncle 3 months apart
in 2011. So it was like and You were like 2
yeah. From 2008 to 2,008 to 2,011. Yeah. There
was so much that there was a lot of people that were very important to
me that I lost. Yeah. What my brother who I've
who's who I who's, from my father's side

(37:55):
who's who's few months older than me,
dies of a drug overdose. Mhmm. Mhmm. After reuniting getting to know
him and reuniting with him, aunt that
played a major role who's actually the catalyst for my
whole family moving from Puerto Rico to the
United States Mhmm. Wow. When she passes away. Right.

(38:19):
So it was just like I was I was angry.
I felt God God was Mhmm. Attacking me and
and I was taking it personal. And
so when I like, one day, it was just
And you have to make a shift. You have to In my head, it just
went it's in my head. I'm like, this is not your purpose.

(38:42):
This is it's not life is not happening to you.
It's just life is happening. Correct. And so I gonna what
am I gonna do with it? Yeah. Right. And so I
I I I, I sought the help that I needed,
started going to therapy, started changing my life around,
and, I fell in love again. Met my wife that I'm with

(39:04):
now and Well done. Well done. Turned my life
around, and and I'm no longer angry.
It it kind of like, last year was a rough year because
I I we buried my mom. She passed away at 84.
And so she she lived a long life. She's,
but it was still a struggle to see her go through what she went

(39:27):
through because dementia and Alzheimer's was just Yeah. Had just
teed her away. Horrible way to go. Yeah. And so
last year was kinda rough, but I
still had a a an amazing support system of people who Yep. Who
who were by by my side. And and even though I was struggling
with a lot of things, they still were like, don't worry about it.

(39:50):
We got you. We got it. Yep. Yeah. And then so,
of course, now this year has started
off in a much more,
much more positive Mhmm. Right in that manner and much
more with me
discovering that there's certain things that I I need to work on. I I've decided

(40:13):
that, I need to build my relationship with
God. Like, I need to improve on the relationship I have with God.
And am I does that mean that I'm gonna be going to church every Sunday?
No. Because that's that's not how that's I'm not I'm not a religious
person. Yeah. I was gonna say that's religion. That's not God. Yeah. I mean, it
could be God, but it's not always God. Yeah. I'm a I'm a I'm a

(40:35):
spiritual person. I'm not a religious. I don't follow a a set religion
You're saying. Lies. It was something that I just felt I needed to
improve my relationship with God. Yeah. There you
go. However it is, how however I decide to do it, I just felt that
I needed to improve on that relationship. Mhmm.
Mhmm. So can can you walk

(40:58):
us through the 9 the 9 the 9 minute framework
for your book, Play Your Game? Sure. Yeah. So first
of all, yeah, the book is, it's a Hay House published book called Play Your
Bigger Game, 9 Minutes to Learn a Lifetime to Live. So I'll walk you
through this very simple model. And and before I walk you through it, from
a workshop perspective, this game board is a

(41:19):
gigantic tic tac toe board on the floor. K?
Okay. I've done it for 50 people. I've done it for 5,000
people in a gigantic hotel room.
So first of all, let's imagine it's like on the floor like this. Okay?
So very simply, there's 9
concepts. You're all gonna go, these all make sense.

(41:42):
It takes 9 minutes to understand it. Applying it to your life,
different conversation. But the concept, you're gonna get it right.
Hunger, we've talked about it. Well, hunger is the
deep seated asking yourself the existential
question. What am I here for? What am I what is this about?
You know, what am I really hungry to create with my life? And the concept

(42:05):
to play within the hunger square is imagine you can
kinda turn it up and you can turn it down like it's like a dial.
Yeah. And many of us turn the dial down because we're afraid we're not
gonna be able to have it or get it or create it. Yeah. So I
won't want very much. So I'll lower the hunger level so I
can avoid this one emotion, disappointment.

(42:27):
Most people will avoid disappointment more than any other thing. They'll be
mad. They'll be sad. But I don't wanna be disappointed. So I
won't want very much for my life or with my life or in my life.
So that's hunger. How hungry are we? Compelling purpose
answers the again, the bigger question. Why am I here? It's
the why question. What am I compelled by? Many

(42:50):
people, it's their children. Many people, it's their family. Others,
it's starting a company. Like Steve Job was compelled by
starting a company. Doesn't matter what you're compelled by. You gotta find
what you're compelled by. Not to just survive, but as we know, you've
heard the term thrive and grow. Right?
And then there's this very fancy word which we love when we created this model

(43:13):
called gulp. It really is the moment of, like,
really? We're gonna put a man on the moon by the end of the decade.
We don't know how to do that. So it has this quality of bigger than
I know how. That's what that means. Investment.
What do I need to invest in to make this real? Will, you
are here right now. You invested in equipment. You invested in learning.

(43:36):
You invested in classes. You invest you invested
yourself and your life to make this impact
with this one form of your production company called a podcast.
Yeah. But usually investment is 2 parts, money and time.
Mhmm. Right? So you got to invest in it. Allies straightforward. You can't do
it alone. No. Never but here's the thing about the

(44:00):
ally square. I'm also a fan of reminding people that when you have
people in your life who you think you're crazy when you tell them what you're
up to, that's an ally. Because some people are
motivated by the, I'll show you.
The great example of this in my life was my brother was diagnosed with bone
marrow cancer many, many years ago, given 3 months to live, go home

(44:21):
and die. My mother, this little diminutive thing,
got turned into this leader and said, not on my watch is my son
dying. And she went off and researched 25 hospitals,
found a hospital that did a remarkable new treatment they'd never done before.
He's alive and well today because of that moment where so the
ally moment in that is the hospital saying go home and die.

(44:44):
Yeah. That motivated her. Of course, saved my son's life.
That's the game. Well, no parent yeah. No parent wants to bury that child.
Exactly. It's it was sort of you know, her hunger was built right in called
Mhmm. You've seen enough to think about it. Right? Yeah. Sustainability,
very, simple language, designing the game that
it could go on without you. Mhmm. An example of that

(45:07):
is Mothers Against Drunk Driving, an organization
global to make sure people don't drive drunk.
We don't know the names of the founders. Yeah. Doesn't matter. It's
a sustainable system. Yeah.
Assess a very simple square. How's it going? Am I having fun? Is this
working? Is it having the impact I wanna have? Bold

(45:30):
action without bold action, it's just a nice conversation.
And then That's good. And then comfort zones, which you spoke to. It's a term
that's out there a lot, but I wanna offer a different perspective on comfort
zones. There's some that serve me and there's some
that do not. Mhmm. I have a comfort zone called working
out every single day. That's a comfort zone. It

(45:53):
serves me. Yeah. I have another comfort zone
called worrying and being anxious. Doesn't serve
me. So it's not a bad in this, in
this model. It's not bad. It's just an awareness of
does this serve me or not and the game that
I'm playing with my life. So there it is in 6 minutes.

(46:17):
But the the way to use this is I throw this in front of a
client or a team, and I go, okay. Where are you on the game board?
Well, I'm in a comfort zone called I'm bored. I need to
find a compelling purpose. I don't have one. I need to take it
like, people will choose where they are because the concept to
play with here is once you know where you are, then you

(46:39):
know what to do next. So what
what does, Yeah. What does
living bodily mean to you, and how can people
apply this mindset to their daily lives? What's the term you
said? Living what? Boldly. I'm sorry. Boldly. Boldly.
I don't know why I say boldly. Boldly. I know. Of course.

(47:02):
Well, every time I lead the workshop, I go, okay. When I talk about bold
action, I say, what's the most important word, bolder action
people will pick? Bold is up to
you. I don't know what bold is for you,
but you are a great example. Here you are of you decided
I'm going to put my voice into the world. That was

(47:25):
a bold step. Yeah. I think.
And, you know, it kinda takes me out of my comfort zone. Right? Like
Mhmm. So but, again, I think
the the the litmus test for this is to look
to realize at the end of your life, you're gonna look back and go, I
went for it or I didn't. And so many

(47:48):
people, my dad was this voice. He goes, I didn't go for it. I
just made a living. I did not create an amazing life.
And that was the era, by the way. He came home from World War 2.
It was classic. Come home from World War 2. You buy a little
house in New Jersey. You settle down. You get a job.
My mom was a nurse. I mean, that was the world at the time. So

(48:11):
it all made sense. Yeah. But the hunger in him, he looked at
me at the end of his life and said, do not do
not just fall into the rhythm of making a living.
And I'll never forget that voice. Yeah. So so,
how is it that you help your clients uncover

(48:31):
their life's compelling purpose? Yeah. Like I like I said, for
me, it was Yeah. I I didn't know what what my purpose was in life
until I started podcast. Yep.
Here's the game for me. You actually have to try lots of different
things. See, people are waiting to find the right one. It's
like basketball. You just have to keep throwing the shots, and then once in a

(48:53):
while, it goes in. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, let's try a book. Oh, let's
try a let's try a workshop. Oh, let's try a let's see. Oh oh,
was that fun? And the other litmus test for me, is it mostly
fun? Because if it's not fun, we won't stay with it.
We just won't. Like, this is mostly fun for you. I know you have days
where it's like, oh my god. The technology, my head's gonna pop off.

(49:15):
Right? Yeah. But most of the time, it's like, oh, this is freaking
fun. Oh, yeah. Like, right now, we've like, time has flown by.
No. We're, like, 53 minutes into this, and it's, like, whoosh. Where where has where
has the time gone? Like the time has gone. Yeah. Where where
where is all this time? Like, we've just been having such a great
conversation that it's just Yep. You're like,

(49:39):
okay. Wow. Like, I I didn't know Yep. For me, that term is I'm in
the flow of creativity. When you're in the flow of creativity and
wanting to make a difference, time is there's no time. It just goes
by. Yeah. Right. You know? So what what what
role does self reflection play in creating a
meaningful life? Such a good question. Oh my god. I

(50:01):
don't I think the answer is everything. If we don't reflect on
life, then it's just a big, I'm gonna like, it's a big shit
show of good luck. You can swear. It's
fine. It's sort of like, what? How could you not I mean, I I have
to be really like, people who don't reflect on life, I'm like, how do you
how do you go through the day? Yeah. I mean, I think you

(50:23):
and I are reflectors. There's people who love to reflect on life, and there's people
who are like, you know what? I'm just gonna go to dinner.
So I don't think everybody needs to. Oh, there's somebody
saying hello, by the way. Hi, Mickey. Oh, yes. Mickey,
Mickey Delaney, he's always stopping by. Yeah. He's
always showing love. Yeah. It it I appreciate

(50:46):
and that's one of the reason I I like going live is so that Yeah.
I get it. People can comment. Yeah. Yeah. Come in there. If they wanna comment,
they can comment. And for me, it's,
I save on editing. Yeah. I I totally I
understand. It's a really good choice. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I I
My god. I don't know. Best decisions I made was going live. Because once

(51:07):
I once I release it, it's out there in in the universe, and I don't
have to hey. People really like it or you don't. And so and
and and, like, I'll edit, like, I'll
edit Yeah. Other people's
podcasts because the then they're paying. Yeah. I understand. I don't now
you're a production company. Right? But You're a production company. Meanest to

(51:29):
him and and and spend time on all I know Yeah. I I rather
just go live, and I enjoy the the live aspect of it.
And, it was just it was just the next
step in my evolution as far as my show. Yeah. That's what I
said. I started with audios, strictly
audio, and then I had a a guest come on and

(51:50):
and and question, like, the video.
And I was like and, again, then that's when I had
excuses. I was like, I'm not ready. Yeah. I mean,
obviously, I need another better I mean, better camera. And he's like Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you need video? I'm like, no. And
the third time that person asked me, I was like, I do the video now.

(52:13):
Yes. I do the video. Because I understood what he was trying to get at.
He's like, you're already using the platform.
Yep. Take advantage of it. Yeah. And then They've
also proven, by the way, we wanna watch more than we wanna listen.
Yeah. I mean, we watch TV. We don't listen to TV. Yeah. This is
true. This is this is true. And, you know, so they've proven we wanna we

(52:35):
wanna watch people. And and, you know, I think the other thing that I think
is fascinating is, you know, you've shared your story with me. And now I'm like,
oh, this guy is this, you know, your story is interesting. Not
maybe to all of it. You know, my story is who knows if it's that
interesting, but people wanna hear the backstory of how they got to
where they got. Yeah. Right? And and so we're sharing our

(52:56):
backstory. How did we get here? And you all know, by
the way, there's no right strategy to this. There's a lot of
creativity. Again, my antidote to getting it right is
go. Go before you know is my favorite
phrase. So, Yeah. How how do you
stay motivated and inspired

(53:18):
while helping others achieve their dreams? I know, boy,
you're asking all the good ones. Let's be honest. There are
days when I'm not inspired. Okay? Can we just be honest? There are days when
they're just not. Like, you know, there's there's, like, a shit show day. Like, I'd
rather not. And so I I'm I'm a fan of
you know, first of all, if I have a job to do that day like,

(53:39):
I have 30 clients. So, you know, I've been on the phone today already
6 5 hours of Zoom calls. Okay? So the
good thing that saves me half the time from my own anxiety is I have
a job to do. Like, here I am with you right now.
I can't afford to be stuck right now with you. You know what I mean?
Like, you need me to we I need to show up

(54:01):
because there's humans hopefully listening at some point. So I think
the other thing that keeps me motivated is I have a job to do because
I decided to have this job in the world, and you're one of those people.
I have a job to do. Yeah. Whether people like my
job or not, that's remains to be seen.
But I have a job to do, and I think that's a role that's a

(54:22):
role decision. What I mean by that is we're leaders. We're
we're we're we're difference makers. We're we're bigger game players,
whatever whatever whatever term. And that keeps me in the
game. Right? Because there are days, and this has just happened
over the holidays. Too many days where I don't have to show
up, I start to devolve. I

(54:44):
start to doubt, worry, but it's like, okay. Thank God the holidays
are over. I have a job to do now. I'm back. Yeah.
I saw you on the calendar today, and I was like, yay. I get to
talk. So I could breathe. And then one thing that's that's
one thing that I'm challenging myself Yeah. This year is to go out
and and be on more podcasts. Be on other podcasts. You

(55:07):
bet. Yeah. It's something that I have, I mean, I've been on
podcasts. Yeah. But have I been on the right I've been no. I haven't
really put myself out there. Yeah. And, the guest I had on yesterday was
like Yeah. Yeah. You have a wonderful platform here, and you're always you're
always Yeah. Putting other people out there and letting them and and letting
your audience meet them. She goes, now it's time for them to

(55:29):
get to meet you. With her. Yeah. Time to meet you. Yeah. And and
and you go out, and even if you do more solo episodes
or or go out it's just go out there and show people
what what you're made of. Show them what you have. Show them what you're capable
of. And I was like, this is true. This
is so true. Well, that's sort of like, do you wanna be Oprah? I mean,

(55:51):
Oprah's an interviewer. That's how she made a living. Yeah. Or do
you wanna be, you know, the voice of something? You don't wanna be, you
know, on the receiving side of Oprah's interview. Right now, you're the Oprah with
me. Yeah. Right? And then there's the, wait a minute. I wanna be in other
people's shows. Do you have a book? Have you done a book yet? You need
to do a book. Oh, me? I'm working on it. I helped my

(56:13):
nephew publish his book. We we self published his book. So Okay. We
we've we've we I know how to publish. There's a story in you, my friend.
Yeah. Yeah. No. I the I I I know how to publish a book, so
I can't I will be publishing my my story. Yeah. Good. That's
something I'm gonna work I'm working on. Yeah. And yeah. So, yeah, it's
it's different. It's, like I said, these these these past

(56:34):
few years, I've learned so much and and grown so much
and and things that I've never I I would have
not Mhmm. Know I would've I would've never if you would've
told me 5 years ago that I would be in this position, I
would've been like, nah. No. Of course. I exactly. Me too. Like, I don't
know. It wasn't even on my radar. Yeah. Exactly. Like, I had a book that

(56:56):
went into the world and went did well. Like, I would have been like, what?
You know, to your point. Can I I just I cannot have a you can
take it or not will, but I have an idea for a book title? It
just came to me. Okay. I just say it to for you. Right. It's,
Finding My Faith Finding Faith Again.
Yeah. That's a good title. Finding Faith Again because I

(57:19):
think I'm people have lost faith.
They don't know what to trust. I don't know. It's just that it's because I
as you talk, I'm like, this you're you're finding your
way back to God and, you know, there's
this there's this Yeah. The movie is the story to be there's a story to
be told. And story to be told. Exactly. And, and and that has a

(57:40):
lot to do with my faith and and Of course. And and losing
it and and and Yeah. And and building it back up. So,
yeah, there's a there's a lot to be there's a lot to be shared and
and told. Yep. Yeah. And, yeah, thank you. I
appreciate I appreciate the the the suggestion. That's all. I think I think it's one
of those well, I am not attached, but it's one of those book titles that

(58:01):
I think people would relate to. I need to find my faith again, so let
me read his story. Yeah. You know? So, anyway, just a thought.
So But, this is like, it's alright. We we run it we run it I
don't know. Like, an hour. I don't know how long your show is supposed to
be there. Oh my god. Oh, we've we've we've we've way past the time. Oh,
sorry, everybody. Oh, no. But, I love that's those are
some of my favorite episodes is when the conversation is so good,

(58:25):
and and and we get like, it just time flies. You don't
know where where where it's time. But get it. Yeah. So What
what what are,
what, what what's one lesson from your journey
that you wish everyone to learn? Yeah. I know. It's
so funny. I I wish I'd said this.

(58:48):
I by the way, I do need to go in a minute. I have a
client waiting at the top of the hour. But, anyway, the the lesson I'll that
that I I wanna tell everybody,
don't worry about what people think so much. Like, really don't don't
and I and I know that's hard to say to a 20 something or a
30 something because that's the when I was in that era, that's all

(59:11):
I worried about. Yeah. It was what people thought of you. Exactly. It was very
but it's like, wow. How do I and I think kids
today are better. They're like, yeah. This is my deal. This is who I am.
You know, the the gay straight. It's a pretty fluid world now,
so we've come a long way. Yeah. But I still think it's like, don't over
worry. Don't don't worry so much about what people think.

(59:34):
Right? Right. So Mickey just says, I do not think Wise has a
time limit. No, Mickey. But I do try to keep it within a
certain amount of time. Yeah. I know. But but Yeah. I know you have to
go. So you're gonna get the solo layout, plug away, let people know
where they can find you, whatever they can find. So, yeah. So this is the
name of the book. Go get it. Play Your Bigger Game. It's on Amazon. Rick

(59:54):
Tamlin's the name. Bigger Game is the game.
There if there's a way that,
I've already put the the link Yeah. There's a link. You get a free
chapter if you put in you know, there's a link to a free chapter, put
in your email. You'll get the chapter 1 of the book. You just wanna put
that into the, you know, put your name and email into the system and you

(01:00:16):
know how that it works, everybody. It'd be honored to get to have the first
chapter in your thinking and in your DNA of of your life.
So thank you, sir, so much for this conversation.
Thank you. It's been great having you. I know you have to rush.
I appreciate you for I appreciate you, for being a
guest. Congrats to all the work you're doing, man. Thank you. I

(01:00:38):
appreciate it. When you write the next book, hit me up. Yeah. There's another one
coming. Yeah. We'll be in touch. Yeah. We I definitely gotta have you back on
because this was it was too short. Yeah. I know. There's, like, 80
seconds. Yeah. Short. Right? But, thank you so
much, doc, for being a part, and I appreciate you. And, you have
a great great rest of your day. Congratulations. And yay to

(01:00:59):
finding your way back to quote, unquote God or energy or whatever you wanna call
it. That's a big deal. So well done. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. Be well.
Have a great rest of your day. Bye, everybody. Thanks for listening. Bye.
Alright, everyone. That was another great episode.
Time flies. Like, I didn't even know we were ready up to

(01:01:20):
in the hour, but another great episode. I I appreciate the doc for
stopping by and then, and sharing his story. It it was,
sharing sharing his his knowledge and everything. It's time
for shout outs. Big shout outs to my RealWise fam, Bobby j,
Brandi j. Love you guys. Shout out to the boss lady.
Always appreciate everything you do for me and the family. Shout out

(01:01:43):
to Mickey Delaney for coming through and and and showing love, man. Greatly
appreciate you, brother. Continue to support, man. I I love the fact that you're
always stopping by and and sharing and
and showing love, man. I greatly appreciate it. Big shout out to
to, doctor Rick Tamlin for coming through and and
sharing his story. And as always, a big, big

(01:02:06):
shout out to all the essential workers out there. God bless you. Be
safe. Please, if you if you haven't subscribed, please subscribe. Hit
the notification bell. Share this with your friends.
This this this, it's just been an amazing journey, and, 2025,
I plan on on doing some bigger and better things.
But thank you all out there who support the show and support

(01:02:29):
everything I do. I I greatly do I greatly appreciate everything.
And, yeah. You know how your boy, Wise, does it. Peace
out.