EP 271 How to Transform Your Entrepreneurial Dreams into Media Success

From Entrepreneur to Legal Media Mogul: The Rise of Dennis Meador

In this dynamic episode of the Stuck In My Mind Podcast, host Wize El Jefe sits down with Dennis Meador, a trailblazer who’s shaking up the legal media landscape. Dennis is the founder of the Legal Podcast Network, a platform that is quickly redefining how legal professionals present themselves, grow their practices, and connect with the modern client. From an entrepreneurial journey that started in a troubled childhood to building an industry-changing brand, Dennis shares the wisdom, grit, and creativity that fueled his rise from scrappy startup hustler to visionary legal media mogul.

A Journey Forged in Adversity

Dennis’ story begins in stark circumstances. Growing up surrounded by poverty and hardship, where his mother’s associates were often on the wrong side of the law, he developed a keen sense for business and people out of sheer necessity. By 14, Dennis was already orchestrating local “gig economy” ventures—managing lawn mowing, raking, snow shoveling, and paper routes—discovering early that assembling opportunity for others could be more profitable than doing the jobs himself. This street-smart approach to entrepreneurship would become a hallmark of his future endeavors.

Breaking Into Legal Marketing

Although Dennis’ initial foray into business was far from the legal world, he eventually found himself in legal marketing, initially hesitant about working with attorneys. However, he was drawn in by the logical, debate-driven mindset of lawyers and discovered he could connect with them through reason rather than emotional sales tactics. This unique relationship and appreciation for attorneys’ logic-based approach inspired Dennis to consider how he could further serve this niche.

The Spark Behind Legal Podcast Network

The idea for the Legal Podcast Network was born from Dennis’ deep experience in content creation and a transformative podcast project he led in Austin in 2019. By creating high-quality, multi-camera podcasts for musicians, entrepreneurs, and chefs, Dennis quickly found himself at the center of Austin’s creative scene, proving that individuals don’t have to wait for traditional media— they can be the media. Building on this, and realizing how much attorneys wanted to make their own voices heard (but didn’t have the tools or time), Dennis envisioned a full-service, high-impact content platform built specifically for the small law firm.

Solving Authority and Content Challenges for Lawyers

The Legal Podcast Network goes far beyond just producing podcasts. Dennis and his team offer attorneys a complete content ecosystem: from recording and producing professional-quality podcasts, to extracting and posting 30+ pieces of social and website content per episode, to handling all the distribution logistics for the client. What problem is this solving? Two huge ones:

1. Authoritative Positioning: Attorneys need to stand out in a sea of sameness. Most have generic, template-based websites; the Legal Podcast Network offers engaging, highly relevant content that instantly elevates their credibility and expertise.

2. Content Overwhelm: Producing consistent, high-quality digital content is a massive time drain—especially for small firms. With Dennis’ platform, lawyers can simply show up for a short recording session and reap the rewards of a month’s worth of expertly repurposed material.

Why Storytelling—and Podcasting—Matters for Attorneys

In an era when trust and expertise are the new currency, Dennis argues that audio and video content are exponentially more powerful than written articles for building credibility. Podcasting is uniquely accessible: clients can consume episodes passively on the go, and attorneys can showcase not only their knowledge, but also their authenticity and personal style. Whether aiming to attract direct clients, impress referring peers, or establish industry thought leadership, podcasting creates a lasting advantage—especially for smaller law firms unable to outspend larger competitors on traditional advertising.

Myths Busted and Misconceptions Addressed

One major misconception Dennis addresses is that podcasting is a massive time commitment for attorneys. In reality, with the right support, attorneys can invest just 30–45 minutes monthly and receive an entire suite of content. The platform’s done-for-you approach makes professional podcasting accessible even to legal professionals who aren’t seasoned public speakers or media personalities—the only requirement is a willingness to answer client-centric questions candidly and clearly.

Challenges of Scaling a Vision

While launching the Legal Podcast Network was straightforward for this veteran entrepreneur, scaling the business presented significant operational hurdles—especially building the right systems, onboardin

Episode Transcript

(00:42):
Welcome to another episode of Stuck in My Mind podcast. I am your host
wise and today's guest is
a true innovator and visionary in the legal media space.
Dennis Meadow is not your typical entrepreneur. He started his first company
at just 14 years old and over the past two decades
he's carved out a niche helping attorneys grow, scale and

(01:03):
differentiate themselves in a competitive market. In
2022, a new vision takes shape. The Legal Podcast
Network, a platform designed to give lawyers the tools to
amplify their authority and communicate the expertise
in an authentic, modern way. Launched in May 2024,
it's already redefining how small legal practices attract ideal

(01:25):
clients and build credibility. Then it says an unmatched
passion for giving professional professionals a voice and a platform
to showcase it. Today we're diving into how he turned a poetry
into a game changing brand. Why, why storytelling is critical in
the legal field and what's next in the world of podcasting for
attorneys. Welcome to the show. Dennis

(01:47):
Mao. Good to be here, my man. Thank you for having me on.
Pleasure, all mine. I'm glad to have you on the show.
So you started your first business at just 14. What drove you
to entrepreneurship so early?
Poor background, living in a place where if I didn't find
money, I didn't eat from about 8 years old to about 13.

(02:10):
And so I learned at a very young age to just pay attention what's going
on around me. Money wise, people wise, you know,
learning people learning their sort of personalities.
Long story short, from time I was 8 to the time I was 13, my
mom mostly dated like heroin dealers, crack dealers, pimps,
gang leaders. We were a few hours outside of Chicago,

(02:34):
three, about three hours from Chicago. And so it was a, you know, three
drive bys in our house while I live there, you know, so it just,
when you live like that, from 8 to 13, like you,
you, you look around you different than most. 8,
9, 10, 11, 12, you know what I mean? And so at 14,
I had actually moved into my dad's at 13 out of my

(02:56):
mom's house and sh. My dad, I had a stepbrother
and his friends. And basically what I did was, is I figured out that
they didn't like getting jobs, but they wanted lawn mowing jobs or
raking jobs or newspaper
route jobs or snow shoveling jobs. So they're, you know, all
11, 12ish, 13 years old. And I'm like 14, 15 years old,

(03:20):
16. And so what I did is I just would go get the jobs,
I would sell them back to the Kids that did them, but I would collect
all the money. So it was like they were working essentially for me on, you
know, like traditionally on paper. And so we had the paper routes, we had
the snow shoveling routes, we had the lawn mowing routes,
we had the, the lawn raking routes. And pretty much everybody

(03:42):
around there, they just all called me and then I sent somebody and then I
collected the money, got the jobs and did all that. And I learned at a
very young age you make a lot more money by putting things together than by
actually doing them.
What, what inspired this shift into working primarily with attorneys?
So that happened about five or six years into my

(04:04):
career. I started selling advertising in college
and started making really good money. Then I actually started traveling and selling
advertising. Now I'm 20 years old making 3, 4, 5
grand a week selling ads and hospital
patient handbooks. Thought that was great. But I had to travel everywhere. And then I
kind of got stuck in one spot and I was selling ads for like 3,

(04:27):
4, 500 bucks. And then I decided like
somebody recruited me for the legal industry and I was like, ah, man, I
really don't like lawyers. Like, you know, I've been selling to realtors and insurance and.
But I've been selling them like $300 ads, right, so you can sell that to
them. So I get recruited and all of a sudden
like $5,000 a month packages, I'm like selling 7, 8, 9, 10,

(04:49):
15 a week, not a week, but a month. Some weeks
I'm selling 6, 7, 8 deals making really good money. And I was like,
wow, like boy, I sell one five thousand dollar package and
that's like selling, you know, x amount of 500 packages
and so 10 times technically, but with commissions and stuff is a little
different. But the point is like, yeah, that's, that's how I got

(05:12):
into it. And what I really enjoyed about attorneys and what I like about attorneys,
and I say this on almost every show I go on, is
they like to act in the, in, in
logic. And so a lot of sales and a lot of sales techniques
that they teach, teach. You are very emotionally
manipulative, you know, like, oh, if I could, how would your

(05:34):
life change if I brought you 10 new clients this month? You know, and like,
you know, kind of sell the sizzle, not the steak and all that stu stuff.
But the thing about attorneys is you don't have to emotionally
sell them. You can logically sell them, you
can discuss with them without them getting angry. Like most business owners,
you know, they, you know, if they own like A big roofing company or if

(05:55):
they own whatever, if you question them in their decision, they're going to get angry
and emotional and upset. How dare you. Blah, blah, blah. But an attorney,
what do they do for a living? For the most part, they discuss,
argue, come to a. Come to an agreement point. So they
naturally have that sort of inclination to hear
out. If you can get somebody to listen to you, to hear out what you're

(06:17):
saying, and if you speak logically and with equal intelligence and equal logic that
they would bring about, they're going to want to work with you because they're going
to respect you and feel like you know what you're talking about.
So that's what I ended up with. Attorneys. Okay, so. So how did
the concept for the Legal Podcast Network first come to you?
So I did a podcast in Austin 2019.

(06:39):
In three months, we did 60 episodes. I shot two or
three cameras. I shot in 4K. I had a crew of about
10 people, put a lot of money, a lot of effort. It was. Didn't make
a dime off of it. But I learned a lot about the impact of
quality production in a space like this because, like,
within just a short amount of time, I went from somebody that nobody in Austin

(07:01):
knew to. To, like, being invited to MC stuff and to be
like a public figure within just a matter of months by
basically coming out and saying, hey, guys, hey, musicians,
hey, entrepreneurs, hey, chefs. You don't have to
wait for Austin Weekly or Austin this, or
you can create your own media at a high quality that

(07:23):
will get just as consumed, maybe more consumed
than these other outlets. And now there's like three or four podcast
studios there. One guy told me, he's like, dude, you're the one who showed us
that we need to stop waiting for the media to come show us, and
become our own media companies. And so now, like, there's
spaces created for creating podcasts, creating video,

(07:45):
creating everything that's just for different categories of
entrepreneurs throughout Austin. And so I'm not going to say that I'm at the
forefront of that, but I will say that I had an opportunity to do it
when no one else was doing it. And I had a few people tell me
because of that, it inspired them to try to do something like that.
So I did the podcast, and then

(08:06):
I had a. Also I had another company I was a business partner in,
and I've always been kind of sales process, sales development, and
our biggest thing, we would take our product and we would make a podcast out
of it, and that did better Than like an audible book or
other stuff that we would do out of it, like, oh, a podcast. And I
told my partner, I was like, dude, these attorneys are really wanting to do

(08:28):
podcasts. And he decided, no, I'm gonna. Let's open up a
answering service instead. Our relationship ended
in December of not 24, but 23.
And I was like, you know what? I have a book. I'm an entrepreneur. So
I have a book of business ideas that, like, some I could start for
free, some I could start online, some I could start not online, some I could

(08:50):
start with this. And I just, like, when ideas come to my head, I just
put them in that book and I just keep that book. And that book
has saved my butt more times than
anything. Like, I had one relationship with her. I was coming in to set up
a whole new division, and then this guy, his. His
bookkeeper told him I was trying to get in and look at his books. I'm

(09:12):
like, why do I even care? You're paying me what you're paying me. But whatever.
So that relationship ended and it was a pretty big contract. And
I went home and I told my wife. I was like, at the time, I'm.
I'm married now, but it was a different wife. But anyway, I was just
like. I was like, I'll figure something out. And I went and I got my
notebook. And by that next Monday, I had, at the end of the day, made

(09:32):
a contract with a big national newspaper company where I could flip newspaper
space. I got 750 a page. I
sold 12 ads at 500 bucks on that page. Now you
do the math. And I paid somebody $20 to do things. So all I had
to do, I was sick at the time. I had some health issues. Is
just had to, you know, jump in and do it. So with

(09:55):
that book, I came and I was like, okay, I could do this. I could
do this. I was like, podcasting. You know, I liked podcasting. It's
creative. And I'm a creative person as well as a, like a business
oriented person. And I was like, and I know
that with that, we could do more than just a podcast,
because podcast is great. But if that's all we were delivering to our clients, we'd

(10:17):
really be doing them a disservice for every show that they do with us.
And we. You can do one, two or four shows a month. If they do
one show, they get 30 pieces of content. In other words, every
day of the month, they have content. Now we create shorts, we create
reels, or we create Shorts, we create
audiograms and then we create static content. We'll actually

(10:39):
even load that into our system and do all of the posting for
them. So literally all they would have to do is show up once a month
for 30 minutes, talk, answer seven to 10 questions, and
then out of that they're going to get a full podcast, 30 days
worth of posts, two to three pages of content for their website.
So, and it's all done at a very high level, very professionally with

(11:02):
production. Our team, our production team, us based, our
producers, us based, These are all people from the industry working
for companies like Nike. Our main producer
produced one of Stephen King's podcasts just to like,
kind of contextualize it of who we're having do this. So that's the
other thing. We've been very fortunate with this company of being able to just be

(11:23):
like, finding people that are very, very high quality
awarded in the industry. But because we can give them work,
the 75% of the time they're not getting that industry work.
Then we get very high level. But we're not, you know, we don't live in
Hollywood. We don't, you know, I live on an island in Belize and
you know, my main producers in Denver and I've got, I've got people in

(11:46):
California. I mean, just all over. We've got about 30 people across the
world. Wow. What,
what problem were you solving when you created this platform?
2. One was authoritative positioning for attorneys. There's
got to be a way to differentiate themselves from the myriad of other attorneys
that do what they do in marketplace. And they all have that same

(12:09):
fine law AVO generic website that says, hey, I
do that. Call me when you start to really produce content
that is specialized at a high level. Now you've got videos
because, you know, we're creating videos, we're creating social, we're creating
content, you know, and, and that's the thing, is
we're solving a content problem, but we're also solving a

(12:31):
positioning problem. But it's the content that helps with the
positioning.
What's the biggest misconception attorneys have about
podcasting? That it takes a lot of time,
especially with a company like ours. Sure, if they did it all themselves and they
learned how to, you know, audio engineer and video edit and

(12:54):
use all the different Adobe programs in this program and then learn social,
and then learn social techniques and all the stuff. Because, you
know, we have 30 people. I have one person. All they do is write up
the transcripts and create content for the websites. I have one person
all they do is, are, is load up all our social
full time job. They just load social media calendars from our

(13:15):
clients. So like, you know, this stuff isn't
lightly done in an extra 20 minutes a day. This is
something that I would say each client we probably spend
across the team a solid 10, 12, 15, 20 hours a week or
a month on their, on their project, depending on variables.

(13:36):
How do smaller law firms benefit different, differently from
podcasts that, that from podcasts than larger
firms? Well, we focus on smaller firms. Our
client base is one to ten attorneys. So
bigger firms can use it, but it's more about showing how
big they are. Smaller firms can really use it for

(13:58):
direct contact to clients, to referring
partners. Because there's really three types of podcasts we end up doing for
attorneys. We have client, you know, like with authoritative positioning,
client based podcasts, which the vast majority of our clients
do. But then we have what we call our referral podcast. So for
example, I'm a real estate attorney and I want to do a podcast

(14:20):
about real estate in Dallas, dfw. Instead of
like, you know, maybe I might have a client here and there, but I would
have like a mortgage and then a title company and then maybe a
clean out company, you know, things that people need to watch,
you know, when they're moving out of their home, you know, things like that. So
I would just be gathering everybody in my industry and that's,

(14:41):
that's a referral. And then you have a thought leader podcast
which is really from that attorney to other attorneys, showing them
how knowledgeable they are in their niche so that other attorneys
will follow them as a thought leader. So that's really. So we have
a few that are like, hey, I want to be a thought leader. I want
to speak on stages, I want to be the guy. We have a few

(15:02):
that are like, I just want to build relationships. I just want to, you know,
have people on my show and then refer and refer back and forth. And then
some of them, they're like, nope, I just want to be, get this authoritative
positioning, build up my content, build up my social, build up my
website, start showing up in, you know, for example, I had a client
today tell me, he said, listen, he said, I, I'm already getting

(15:23):
stuff from people. He said, a lady I went to college with, I was at
a, like a bar meeting, you know, like the, the, the bar
for the attorneys. And he said, she came up to me and she's like, hey,
I saw you the other day. And he's like, oh, where'd you see me, she's
like, well, I was searching something online and this lady's like two states
over. She's like, I was searching something online and when I

(15:44):
searched it, a video came up and it was your podcast.
And he was like, really? So we're getting a lot of that
because the clients that work with us, especially if they do at least two
shows to four shows a month, they just, that really starts
to pick up in these algorithms because we're posting every day and we're posting this
content and we're posting it in YouTube, which obviously Google loves.

(16:07):
And we're also working on our, you know,
like our AI search results, like how we work with them.
We have a few clients that are already doing well in AI search results because
of FAQ content is what search, you know, it's, it's query
based search. And that's what we're doing for them is
we're essentially creating a query or question based marketing

(16:29):
program that number one fits a higher quality client.
Because who would you want as a client? Somebody that just says cheapest divorce attorney
Atlanta or I just lost, you know, or something like what
happens to a second home during a divorce? And then you answer their question,
they listen to your podcast, they go to your website and they see you as
an expert. So they're ready to hire you when they call you instead

(16:52):
of, well, how much do you cost? And then they're going to call the next
person on the list. So that's the big advantage. Here's what
I tell small law firms. If you can't outspend your
competition, let's say your personal injury, there's the big dogs that come
in and buy up all the billboards, all the TV stuff. But
there's way more people on these things than there is

(17:14):
on, than there is on television and paying attention to billboards.
And so if you can hack in and show up here more often
with value and, you know, helping people,
you're going to cultivate a lot more clients than people who are focusing on
mediums that have been dead for 15 years.

(17:34):
I don't know about you, but I have never seen somebody on the side of
the road pulled over writing down a website, have you? Nope, not at
all. So, so is that, is that what you call establishing
authority and what does it really mean in the legal space?
Establishing authority is about setting yourself apart. It's about,
it's about finding a very niche client and

(17:56):
letting them know that you can specifically help them. So for
example, if I'm a divorce lawyer, I can say I can help anybody, but
realistically, if I do like a cheapy divorce where
they're agreeing, I'm going to make $500, right? Like
maybe two grand if I have a divorce where there's
assets and custody and all, you know, maybe a

(18:19):
business involved. And I, I did a podcast about
going through a divorce while owning a business together. I've done a podcast
about, you know, and so they've come to me and they're like, we've listened to
your podcast, we've seen this, like, which one do you think is a better client?
One, the one with the assets is going to pay way more money,
they're going to fit your clientele more and they're going to respect you.

(18:41):
Somebody that just throws $500 at an attorney and says give me a divorce, do
you think they have a lot of respect for that attorney? No, not so much.
And so that's what we're doing is we're establishing respect and authority
for the attorney before the person ever comes to them. Through
the videos, through the podcast, through the content.
It's high end specific content that speaks directly to

(19:03):
people and their direct problems.
Why is audio more powerful than written content? For credibility.
Audio or video or both? Both. Audio and video.
Because, well, 80% of people would rather, would
rather watch a video than read an article. 82%

(19:25):
if we're going to be exact. So we know video kills, which is why
kit video is such a huge part of our plan. You know,
we put it on LinkedIn, we put it on Facebook, we put it on YouTube.
You know, we're putting video everywhere because that's what people are paying attention to
now. But audio versus
versus like written as well is

(19:46):
podcasting. And audio is the only form
of media consumption that we can
do and we don't have to stop to do it. If
I read an article, I have to stop and read it. If I watch a
video, I have to stop and watch it. Whereas podcasts just go in my
ear, plug it on my phone or put it on my, on my

(20:09):
car and listen to a couple podcasts on the way to work, couple podcasts back
while I'm going for my morning walk or jog or whatever. Listening to
podcasts, you know, while I'm sitting there, whatever. Like
podcasts can be a, like that media consumption
outlet is the only one that can passively be a part of
your life consistently. Yeah, I

(20:31):
agree with that 100%.
I originally started when my podcast, it was strictly audio and then eventually
I got into the video concept as well. Because it's more content.
It's actually. Yeah, so I benefited from
switching from doing, just being able to do both. So.

(20:53):
So what? Yeah, I mean it's huge. Like that's why we repurpose across it. You
know, like I said, a half hour of our clients time every month becomes a
show. 30 pieces of content, two or three pieces of content for their
website. And we, we upload and do all the social
forums. So and we'll upload on up to 10. So we, we have
clients, we've created threads, Twitter, Blue Sky,

(21:15):
Pinterest, because they didn't have any of those, you know, and then they had Facebook,
Instagram, LinkedIn, those, you know, and YouTube. Those are usually
the big four. And GMB, GMB, the big five. So we always make
sure they have those, but we also try to encourage them. Let's do
Pinterest, let's do Blue sky, let's do Threads,
let's do X, let's do, you know, whatever we can.

(21:38):
Because even if you aren't on it,
if we can produce content that somebody on there finds valuable,
then uses that to link back to your site or your content,
then you're putting yourself in a much better situation to gain clients.
So I try to teach my clients to, to be outlet

(21:58):
agnostic. The only one I'm telling them that they don't need to be on is
Only Fans. But if you think about it, I might pay
$10 a month to have a, an attorney on Only Fans, just sitting there waiting
to ask my que, answer my questions. You know that,
hey, that might be the future. You never know. Only
Law. I don't know. Let's do that. It's like Only Law and it's like

(22:20):
streaming attorneys. What do you think we'll come up with together?
W I Z E L jefe. We'll make up our own business.
And it's, it's like only fans, but only lawyers.
So what was the most challenging part of, of launching the network?
Because I know it took some work. You know,
I would say, I mean launching wasn't that hard. I,

(22:44):
I've launched businesses on weekends. You know, like I said, I've been doing this for
30 years so like I can launch a new business on a weekend,
but actually getting it established, you know, we grew so fast in
this first year. We went from using Monday or from using
spreadsheets in Google, then we started using Monday, then we
started using another program. Now we're using ClickUp. And

(23:06):
we went from me and somebody else and I was the salesperson.
The other person was the support person. Now I have two full time
salespeople. I don't sell anymore. We have 30 people on the team
and all this other stuff that they're doing. So I would say the
biggest challenge has been, as we've grown, to adjust
to each growth phase because a lot of times,

(23:28):
like businesses grow and then they get crashed. So, like, you know,
like you outsell, I call it outselling your
infrastructure, right? So you like sell a bunch of stuff
and then your client services can't keep up and it takes them a long time
to get to somebody. And then people get pissy and you lose clients and you
get bad reviews. So what we've tried to do is be very

(23:49):
pace and very measured. No more than 20 new clients a month,
no more than, you know. And so we've just been paced and
measured. And then we're going to add another person, probably late summer, and go up
to 30 clients a month and just
slowly just keep pacing that until our whole infrastructure is
built. But that's the most challenging. No one said, oh, you're going to build

(24:11):
a podcast network here, why don't you plug into this thing and starts. Like,
I've had to find every tool, I've had to find every
employee, I've had to create most every process or at
least find the people to create them and work with them on it. So there
wasn't a plug and play model for something like this. Because
of everything that we're doing and where we're doing it, we had to just

(24:33):
kind of come in and go, okay, here's how we're going to do it. And
then when we would find a something that we were messing up, we would fix
it and put a system in place. And that's kind of what we've been doing
the last year that's been the most challenging part is growing and
not having a bunch of angry clients, but
growing and having them happy. And, you know, six months ago we

(24:54):
struggled with it, but we have spent six months intensely
fixing that. And now all of our interactions with clients, even ones
that are calling to fix something, are extremely pleasant. Like a
guy today. He sent me an email last week, hey, what's going on? How do
I keep up with things? It's like, oh, we got this new version of our
program where we send you a new an email every week that tells you everything
going on. Here's your content that goes out. Here's your next episode that goes out.

(25:17):
You know, everything they need to do, everything We've done all the reports on what
they have out there. And so I met with them and he was like,
hey, that was the one I told you where. He just told me that like
people are coming up to him and seeing his show and he really likes the
program. And so we produce a
great product. It's just been for us the growth process of

(25:38):
staying in, in contact with them in a way that's not too much
where they get irritated, but not so little where they feel like we don't care
and we're leaving them out because attorneys are picky
people. What's, what's your, what's your process for onboarding
attorneys and developing their shows? I have a team that
does that, you know, so we have a guy

(26:00):
who's full time head of Client Success, although we are getting
ready to switch into a different way of doing things completely through a
program called Flola. And so what we're going to be able to do with Flola
is the first, it's we create a box for a person
like a, a portal and then we do the presentation. So we send them
the link and here's the presentation. But then everything that happens next

(26:23):
is inside of that same portal. So here's your testimonials, here's
the contract, here's what, here's our next state of talking. And then once
they come on board, the onboarding process will actually be done in
Flola and then the CS process will be
done on in Flola. Just to put it in context, when we sign
on a client from the time they sign on until the end of their

(26:45):
first initial contract, which is four months down the road and it auto renews and
we have a very high retention rate. But there's
303 internal steps for our company.
303 actions that our team does during that four
months. So that's 75 actions per client per
month.

(27:08):
So how do you coach legal professionals who aren't natural
speakers? Well, the good thing about this is
it's not necessarily about what we tell them is, listen, we don't want you to
focus on being this great speaker. Like I do it, I meet with people. You
know, I learned about gesticulating my hands and you know,
eye contact, although I should be looking up and not down. But I think you

(27:30):
can't quite tell the difference anyway. But like eye contact and all of
that fun stuff. And the other thing is I, I've been spreading my
arms outside of my realm and you're not supposed to do that. But
with our Attorneys, what we tell them is, listen, all we want you to do
is sit at your desk if, if that's where you're set up at
and you're just going to answer seven to ten questions that you answer every day.

(27:54):
So just as if you're sitting across from a client talking to them, just
answer the questions. Don't use bigger answers than you would with clients.
Don't use longer answers. Just very simply, as if
you're explaining to a potential client. If a potential client sits down and
says, so I have a high asset divorce. And my biggest question is,
I really love my second home. It's on the lake. I fish there

(28:16):
three times a month and I think my wife really wants to go after it.
What is the rules? What happens in the second home in a, in a divorce
like this? So the attorney, right, would then just, well, what
typically happens is. And so we're not worried about them
being good on camera. We're, we want them to be good at answering
questions to their clients in a natural way. And the

(28:39):
advantage we have is with using things like Zoom is
these attorneys have been on Zoom courts since the pandemic. So they're
not uncomfortable behind the camera for Zoom.
So if we can get them to do it the way they did it in
the courts. Now, some of them, they set up like, I have a setup, right,
Obviously. So like with me, I have a 75 inch TV behind

(29:00):
me. I've got light kits around me to give me proper lighting.
I've got a DSLR camera straight ahead of me, right below
it. I've got me and you talking real big. So, you know, I feel like
it's kind of all one big conversation. And so
like that works for me
because I'm gonna like, I'm a professional podcaster, I should look like

(29:24):
this. But for attorneys who are just gaining clients,
I mean, an attorney's not gonna, or a client's not gonna go, you know, they
were just sitting at their desk with the wall behind them. They're not going to
care about that. They're going to care how the attorney answers. So now we
do have some that step it up and make nicer studios and
get better. Like we're trying to get them all to switch to 4K

(29:44):
cameras and all to switch to this microphone here, which is the Shure
MV7. Yes, they could spend more. But I feel like bang for
buck and ease of use with it being a USB C plug and
play and it does all the internal stuff automatically.
I feel like it's the, the Most logical choice, because, like a blue
yeti, you have to know to turn it sideways, you have to. Like,

(30:07):
it's so you get a real tinny sound out of it.
But like, with this. Sure, you know, so with our clients
who want to be more professional and do a much better job, like,
if you go to our YouTube channel, you can see the difference. We have a
guy in Massachusetts that's been with us almost since the beginning. He's a
bankruptcy attorney. He usually wears an old ratty shirt that says something

(30:28):
kind of off color, like Morehead State University that he didn't go to.
And, you know, just stuff like that. And he just sits back and he answers
the questions and he's. Haha. You know. But that's who he is. Like, if you
came in and sat across from him, that's what you'd sit across from. But then
we have other attorneys, like this guy in Greenville, South Carolina. He set up a
studio kind of like mine, and he answers his questions and he's always got a

(30:50):
nice suit on, and he's always, you know, presenting himself well. And.
And that's how he wants to present himself. And we're totally fine with that.
But we don't put pressure on them to be good at
camera. We want to put pressure at that. On them to be good at
answering questions, because the. The. The legal
consumer will forgive bad camera etiquette. But if he.

(31:12):
He or she doesn't sound very intelligent in the answer,
they have basically no shot.
What's been the most surprising piece of feedback from attorneys on your
platform?

(31:33):
I will say this is not from attorneys, so, I mean, we get great
feedback. Let me just say that, like, they say we love the production, we're getting
traction. Like, that's literally all we hear. Our big
things were learning how to communicate
consistently. So they felt like they were in the loop. Even though we knew they
were in the loop, they didn't. Right. But

(31:56):
what was most, like, interesting or challenging or
surprising for me was when we started about a month
ago, having other law firm marketing companies
call us or email us and say, I've seen your
work. I want my clients to sign up with you. I
want to sign up with you. I had one agency that called me. They

(32:18):
were doing podcasting as a service. They are dropping
podcasting as a service. All of their internal clients, they're trying
to get on the podcasting, and we're taking over their
podcasting. Their podcast. Wow. So that. That's
been a surprise to me because when I started this out, I just Thought Attorneys,
attorneys, attorneys. We've had agencies come to us. Another one that we

(32:41):
have a lot of clients and more so in the pipeline right now
is we have a lot of people who aren't attorneys, but they serve the
legal industry. So, like, we have a financial planner
who she works with attorneys. We have a guy who has like an AI system
for small law firms that they just plug in and it tells them what to
fix. We have another guy who is benefits. We have

(33:02):
a lady who does this video and helps. She was an NBC anchor,
news anchor, and now she helps attorneys with videos. So if an
attorney says, well, I just. I'm not good. I'll say, hey, we've got this lady
in our program. Why don't you do a couple sessions with her and have her
help you? And she can break it down. We've got fractional
chief financial officers, fractional chief marketing officers, and

(33:24):
they're all paying to be a part of our infrastructure in
marketing to about 200, 000 attorneys. So I've got about 10
clients right now that were clients I never anticipated. I've got five
agencies that I never anticipated. I just anticipated going
after attorneys. Like, I have my whole career with my product. No one
else really talking to me. So those have been extremely

(33:46):
pleasant surprises because to me, what that tells me is we're doing
something right when somebody who isn't even our customer is coming and saying, hey,
can I join in? And then somebody else who I would say on paper would
be my competitor comes and says, hey, we want to utilize your services.
Like, to me, that's like a great surprise and
a great indicator in it. And like, I literally just took my whole. We have

(34:09):
about 15 people in Pakistan, and I took all of them on Friday
and got them in a meeting with me like this. And I just told them
all guys, like, we're having agencies come, we're having this, and it's because of the
great work you're doing. I gave them a bonus based on what my guy there
said to give them. Gave them all a bonus across the board. And he's like,
dude, you should see these. These guys are all so excited because, you know, they've

(34:30):
worked with other American companies and they've never seen the
founder of companies that they worked for for five years. And they've worked with you
for three months or six months or a year, and they've already met you several
times. You interact with them as if they're real people. So, you
know, that makes a big difference.
Do you see podcasting becoming a standard for legal marketing in the next five

(34:53):
years. I think for some.
Yeah, I don't think everybody will do it. It's just like YouTube, right? It's like,
it's like every single new
thing. Right. If you've been in. We've, we've
both been around the whole like rise of social media
and it was like what, you know, 10 years ago

(35:15):
everybody was on Facebook. You had to be on Facebook. Facebook is the thing.
Facebook is. We're all on Facebook. And then it was, you know, oh, now it's
Instagram and we all got to be on Instagram and Instagram is a thing. And
then it was tick tock during the pandemic and we got to be on tick
tock. And then now it's LinkedIn. You got to be on LinkedIn. You got to
have LinkedIn. You got to do LinkedIn. I think that

(35:36):
podcasting is not going to be like that. I don't
think it's like YouTube shows, you know, I don't think it's a thing.
I be. And here's why. A very
high percentage of Z and Alpha,
their two main sources of information, are tick tock and
podcasts. So where do you think

(35:59):
podcasts will be in 10 years if 28
and below? Because that's where Z ends, is 28 years old right now.
If everybody 28 and below, it's one of their two main
outlets. Do you think that seeing Pod? Because
same thing with YouTube. In the beginning, YouTube is all, haha, I'm
gonna make you laugh, I'm gonna do something silly. But eventually guys were

(36:21):
showing you how to build houses and guys were showing you how to have an
outdoor garden and ha. And I think it's the same thing with podcasting.
Podcasting was entertaining, but now it's also going to become
educational and informational. I just think it's a transition.
I don't think it's something that's a trend.
Absolutely. What's your advice to other entrepreneurs

(36:42):
building niche media platforms?
Work backwards from your client. Find out what their real hot buttons are
and as you're talking to them, if you hear something more than
once. Because basically the way that I build sales presentations, I build it in my
head, I put it all together, then I go to market. But then when I
go to market, I listen to what they argue about at the end,

(37:04):
what questions consistently get asked, what things happen that make
them say, well, I need to think about it because of this. And then what
I do is I take that and I put it in the beginning of my
presentation, and I inoculate against it. And what
I tell my people is, is if in the beginning of the presentation,
you are overcoming objections, you're a consultant.

(37:26):
If at the end of the presentation, you're overcoming
objections, now you're a salesperson,
and you don't want to be a salesperson, you want to be a consultant.
How do you personally stay ahead of trends in podcasting and
digital content? I live it.

(37:50):
I'm in Instagram, I'm in Facebook, I'm in
LinkedIn, personally and professionally.
You know, Instagram. I built a big Instagram following in Austin. That's what I kind
of parlayed into my podcast. I was one of the first food
writers there in Austin. Like 2014. I
started, you know, I started a food Instagram, which doesn't seem like

(38:12):
that long ago, but in social media years, you know what that means? Yeah.
And so, yeah, I mean, you just, you've. You've got
to be active in it and understand it. And
I call it living in the algorithm. When you understand
that the algorithm has changed because of the way your posts are moving

(38:32):
now, you live in the algorithm. When you understand why
they change, you own the algorithm. I used
to be like, with. I. I managed 250 accounts, plus we had a big
account with tens of thousands of followers on a social agency
I had years ago. And the way that we did, I had 15
people that posted, and they would post two, three times a day, but none of

(38:55):
them would post directly. They would send it to me. And then I knew, Add
a picture, don't add a picture, add a video. Do a forward. Don't do it
for, like, you know, you could just tell what was moving because we had so
many clients. And that's what we're doing with, like,
what we're doing with our clients now is just constantly monitoring,
looking and seeing what's moving, looking and seeing who's doing better. Why are they

(39:17):
doing better? Did they market more? Did they post more? And that's why we
came up with this. Like, because here's what we learned. Our clients, for the most
part, because they are one to 10 law firms, small law firms,
our clients are not going to supplement the
social media that we're doing for the most part. So if we
aren't doing once, twice, or three times a day, promoting

(39:40):
their podcast and promoting their. Their practice, we're
making a podcast. And it's nice and it's pretty, but it just sits there and
it gets three views. But if we create all these pieces and then we
load it on for them. Now all of a sudden, day one, they're getting 30,
40 views. By day three or four, they're in 100, 200,
300 views. Just from doing all of that, Just

(40:02):
from creating the content and then directing everybody back to go see it in the
bio. If you could give
one message to attorneys struggling to stand out, what would it be?
Identify your ultimate client
and build your content around reaching them.

(40:22):
Everybody who tries to, somebody who tries to
serve everybody will reach nobody.
So don't try to reach everybody. If you're a divorce lawyer, get two or
three archetypes of clients and market to their needs. If
you're a criminal defense attorney, get two or three stereotypical
archetypical clients and market to them whatever it

(40:46):
is that you're doing, whoever your client base is. Don't just say, oh, I work
with business owners, I could do whatever they need me to do. No, don't say
that. Say, I help startup business owners who
need to understand the best corporate formation that they need,
and I help keep their paperwork up through the years. That's what I
focus on. Or I focus on established businesses that

(41:07):
maybe their paperwork has gotten behind, they had a bad accountant or
it got behind a little bit and I come in and clean that up.
Because when you say that, somebody who needs an
accountant might respond if they need
this, right? If they need the thing, the cleanup. But if
I only speak to the cleanup, then they're going to be like, that's what I

(41:29):
need. Whereas if I just go, hey, I'm an accountant, I can help you.
Now I have to do. And this is one thing I always tell people in
marketing. Never give somebody homework. If you want them
to know something, tell it to them. If you want them to do something, find
a way to do it for them. Because if you give the homework
of I do that. But now you need to go find out how and

(41:50):
where and why. And you know what I mean? Like you got to click here
and go here and do that. Like they're just not going to do it.
So when you identify that client, you speak directly
to them. You're marketing directly to them. That is how
you know it's the old riches and niches, right? Or
riches and niches, but it doesn't match. So I guess it must be niches.

(42:13):
So, you know, reality is that they've got to find their
client that they, number one, enjoy serving. Number
two, that they can serve in a cost effective manner. In other words, it
makes money for their practice. This Those are really the two things they're looking for.
They enjoy it and it makes them money. If you can find that.
That's why there are attorneys that only do probate, not litigation,

(42:36):
just probate. Why they can get in there, make about 15 grand in
two months. Everybody's happy. There's no, like, litigation
around it. He's just basically moving the money where it goes for a few months
and then he makes his money. So that's all these guys
do. And so he needs to speak to
that person with that problem.

(42:59):
Absolutely. So we've come to the part of the show
where you actually get the solo
screen and get to plug away and let everybody know where they can
find you. Websites, everything.
Okay. Easiest is going to be LinkedIn
if you are connected in there. Dennis Metter. That should

(43:22):
be in the show notes. I'm getting actually ready to launch a new website
which I'm going to start giving at the beginning of. Of
interviews. That's. I. I bought the domain. I think it's called I'm
not gonna pitch you.com. and the I'm not gonna pitch you dot com.
It's a pitch site, but it's going to basically have me,

(43:42):
my podcasts, my company, my
podcast guesting. So it's going to be one site and it's a pure
pitch site of the things that I do, the ways that I serve, speaking,
you know, helping clients, attorneys like you, and then just
in general, you know, knowledge stuff. So. And then the legal
podcast network.com. the legal podcast

(44:05):
network.com. those are the best places to find out about me and my company.
Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much for being such a great guest man. I
greatly appreciate your time and you stopped by and, and
sharing and sharing what you do and which and how
podcasting is, because I know the power of podcasting. I

(44:26):
know where I've like the growth I've
experienced with my podcast and the work I put into it.
So by you doing this, you're saving them.
Ton of headaches, ton of time. We
have several clients who already had a podcast

(44:47):
and they came to us and they said, with what you're charging and what we're.
It actually is caught one guy who said it's costing
less to have us do his show than it cost
him to do it by himself.
Now, he might have been figuring his hourly rate at like 250 and of course
that would be easy to beat that, but it made it sound like, you know,

(45:09):
even just like it wasn't his rate, it was just basically costing
period. So yeah, I mean, you know, it's,
it's quick 45 minutes. So I appreciate that.
You know, sometimes these 45 minutes are like 45 days. So we had a
good conversation. Thank you, Mr.
W I Z E L Jefe. Thank you

(45:32):
man. I appreciate you being a guest, man. I, I, I enjoyed
the conversation. I learned a lot because
yes, you, you deal with the legal podcast network and everything, but
it's with any niche or with any kind of business or whatever you're trying
to do, sort of. Yeah, I mean like I, I talk a lot

(45:54):
about like business process, business sales process development. That's really
my, you know, product development, sales process development, you know, like,
I mean I've been a business owner my whole entire life. What's funny
is never went to college for it, never went to college for marketing.
I went to an unaccredited Bible institute for two years and
on paper kind of had my associate's degree in pastoral theology.

(46:17):
I'm self taught, but it was just kind of like a natural thing for me.
It all makes sense to me. Like, it's funny, I'll describe somebody, a
marketing concept that I understand and they'll have like a
MBA in marketing. And they're like, oh yeah, that's called such and such. And I'm
like, oh, I didn't know it had a name. I just kind of realized it
as I went along. So I'm just kind of like

(46:37):
self taught as I go along. I don't, I don't read sales books, I
don't read like, you know, take courses. If I can't learn it
myself, I hire somebody, they do it, and then I focus on
what I'm good at, which is talking and systems.
Yeah, no, no, I feel you, I kind of
feel what you're saying and it's definitely something that I, I love

(46:59):
talking, I love being able to do the podcast and have people come on
and, and share their knowledge. So I kind
of, and I've, I've self taught in
a lot of things. Like I wasn't in media. I was, I didn't know about
microphones, camera, what equipment to use or
all that. I, once I started podcasting, I was like, I,

(47:21):
I want to start investing in myself. I mean start doing research in certain
equipment, certain cameras, and that's what I did. I invested
myself in courses learning how to edit video, how to edit
audio, how to edit audio, and actually turned it into something
where I can make money on the side. You know what's cool?
Like this little trick here that I did. And then I just have like a

(47:42):
stand up desk in front of it. Right. And then like I said, I've got
my lighting and stuff, but I feel like anybody like with where you're sitting,
you could put a 75 inch TV behind you and then you could
have more of a. You know what I mean? Instead of it being a raw
office. Unless that's what you want. But like some of my attorneys, I'm going to
suggest I'm gonna be like, hey guys, for an 85 inch, 8.4K

(48:03):
TV, you can get them anywhere from 750 to $1500.
If you really want to set up, get one of those behind you.
All I have on here is I have it hooked up to my laptop and
then I have like a screen saver that my team made and I've got
a big light here that's, you know, the big shadow
light. Shadow box. Yeah, I've got a little side light here.

(48:25):
And I mean, it looks like I'm in a studio. I've had several people say
you look like you're standing on a stage or in a studio. Yeah. And the
fun thing about that is I just have to swap the back and we're getting
ready to do. I'm getting ready. Oh, let me say this. I'm shooting
the. It's not the pilot. It's going to be the test run and then
hopefully the pilot this week I'm creating a show

(48:45):
called Bam, which is Building Authority through
Media. Can I share my screen on your podcast?
Yes, of course. Okay, how do I do that?
Present. There we go. Present. I'm gonna
share screen. All right, I'm
gonna.

(49:15):
I show you what my guy sent me.
I think this is pretty cool.
So basically what we're doing is when we
take, we're taking this show, we're calling it Building
Authority through Media and, and basically it's called Bam. And

(49:35):
the, the premise is a superhero. Are you seeing this guy on
here? Yes. Yes. Looks like you. Yeah, it's supposed to.
I'm Bam Man. And then every week I have a dynamic
duo of like another. So like my first four episodes are about LinkedIn
and each one of them has chosen two areas that they're
strong in and then two things that people need to work on.

(49:58):
And then we're gonna like go in and like basically take a journey
each week and it'll be my
cartoon and then their cartoon. And then when the show's done
and AI is there, which I think will be in about three months, I'm going
To take all these episodes that just have like the cartoons talking and I'm actually
going to load them into AI and have AI create like LinkedIn

(50:19):
monsters. And I'm going to create a Saturday morning
concept cartoon that is all about
marketing with authority. So you can literally just watch this
Saturday morning 20 minute cartoon and it's going to teach you about
like what to do in your bio. It's going to teach you it, but it's
going to be presented in more like a superhero, 60s, 70s,

(50:41):
80s cartoon. So let me turn this up and you can hear it.

(51:11):
I. I don't hear it, but. Oh, you don't hear it. Here, let me.
It's actually kind of funny. Let me see where.
Let me get.
Oh, okay. I need to go back to.
Oh, I don't. I don't know if I can share sound

(51:33):
because when I shared. Let's see. Let's go to present
share screen.
Follow these steps to. Come on. It can't just be a button.
How to screen share. Share presentation.

(51:55):
How to screen share. How to share website
with audio. Choose what to share.
Open a Chrome tag and then drag it into
there. That sounds like a lot of work.
Yeah, I know. Let me just. I'll try one thing and if that doesn't

(52:17):
work, then we'll forget it. I'm like super proud of this thing, dude. I
think because like everybody I've shown it to is just like, dude, this is
like different than anything out there. No, it
looks awesome. Like me being a 70s kid and,
and growing up on Saturday morning cartoons and,
and watching every. All that. So it's kind of like

(52:38):
nostalgic. Exactly. And like most people that are going
to watch this, they're not going to be like young, you know what I
mean? They're not going to be like where's. Whatever, you
know, they're gonna be like. They
just. The, the young people aren't like, they're not the
target audience yet. So I don't need to do cartoons that match

(53:00):
them. You know, I don't know why I
can't. Is. Is there. I'll just, I'll email it to you.
Awesome. But it just basically has like a little. Yeah, because for some reason the
share screen, you got to do a bunch of stuff. Share your screen.
This Chrome tab. That's just too much. Yeah, it's
just too much. All right. Man, I didn't know we were still recording. Do you

(53:24):
want to stop the recording so you can pull the, the. Does
this do like Riverside where it needs to pull the file from my
computer. We're actually live. No, I know
that. Yeah, but are you, are you repurposing this later?
Like, do you. I do clear up clips and yeah, I put into
invo and I clip it up. Yeah. Okay.

(53:47):
Thank you so much for being a guest, man. I greatly appreciate you stopping by.
Absolutely. Oh,
oh. I guess he had to leave. But tune into everybody.
Thank you everybody who tuned in live. I greatly appreciate it. As always, if you
haven't subscribed, please subscribe. Hit the notification bell.

(54:09):
Peace to. Oh, shout out to my real wise fan, Papi J. Brandy
J. Love you guys. Shout out to the boss lady. Love you and appreciate you.
And as always, a big, big shout out to all the essential workers out there.
God bless y' all. Be safe. No boy wise does it. Peace.

(54:33):
Sa.