EP 276 From Food Stamps to Global Stages: Marianne Hickman’s Journey to Speaking Success

In this powerful and uplifting episode of the Stuck In My Mind Podcast, host Wize El Jefe welcomes international speaker, entrepreneur, and speaking coach Marianne Hickman. Known for her remarkable journey from food stamps in Utah to igniting stages in 17 countries, Marianne shares her authentic story of resilience, transformation, and the transformative magic of sharing your message with the world.

A Journey Fueled by Hardship and Hope

Marianne pulls listeners in with her unfiltered account of what life was like before her first intentional speaking opportunity. Growing up as the youngest of ten in a family of high achievers, Marianne describes the emotional and financial challenges that nearly broke her spirit—marriage and motherhood at an early age, raising five kids, concerning debt, and the humbling experience of relying on food stamps and government support. She humorously and candidly recounts driving the family’s old Mazda minivan through Provo, Utah, wrestling with frustration at “doing everything right” but still struggling financially.

On that pivotal drive, she describes a personal, almost confrontational conversation with God: she demanded either a box of money on her porch or proximity to someone who could teach her “the money game.” Fate complied—not with cash, but with access to mentors and examples who showed her how to turn her personal story, pain, inspiration, and lessons into sustainable, purpose-driven speaking.

Discovering the Power of Storytelling

Marianne’s turning points didn’t come in the fashion of overnight success. She opens up about her early speaking opportunities, from her church putting her on stage as a child (admitting churches “knock the stage fright right out of you”), to attending seminars as a “seminar junkie” and stumbling accidentally into her first significant co-facilitator role. She shares a vivid anecdote about a seminar where she witnessed a speaker sell out $300 worth of resources to 700 people in a single session—redefining for her the possibilities of influence from the stage.

But more than money or surface-level success, Marianne found her purpose in influence that creates real change. She connects the dots between mastering communication, having a message rooted in authentic experience, and the responsibility to use that message to help others transform their lives.

Overcoming Fear & Transforming Mindset

A key theme throughout the episode is the fear and self-doubt that come with stepping onto a stage—physical or virtual. Marianne boldly confesses to battling “me-centered” anxieties: Am I good enough? Will I forget my content? Does my outfit look okay? But she reveals a paradigm-shifting piece of wisdom: “Stage fright is inherently selfish.” By focusing less on herself and more on serving her audience, giving value, and tuning in to their needs, her nerves are transformed into purpose.

She dives deep into the importance of mindset, using humorous and relatable family anecdotes (like being head-butted by a sheep at a photo shoot) to illustrate how what’s inside you gets squeezed out under pressure—onstage or off. For Marianne, developing a resilient mindset and sharing stories from a “healed scar, not an open wound,” are essential for authentic, impactful speaking.

Lessons from Failure & the Power of Humor

Marianne isn’t shy about her early speaking “cringe moments,” sharing how watching her old keynotes taught her humility and the value of self-compassion. She stresses the importance of ongoing learning and giving oneself permission to be funny and human—citing icons like Robin Williams as examples of using humor to make difficult topics accessible and healing.

Building a Signature Message—and an Income

With practical steps and hard-won wisdom, Marianne walks listeners through the essentials of building a signature presentation. She describes her 10-step keynote blueprint—an adaptable framework that brings stories, lessons, and audience participation together in a way that’s psychologically powerful and emotionally relevant.

Marianne unpacks the different business models for speakers: the traditional stage fee route (getting paid for keynote sessions at associations or universities), and a more scalable, sustainable approach—offering resources, free tools, or courses to your audience as a seamless next step after speaking. She even shares how simple tools and free resources (like her podcast database) can organically lead to recurring revenue by fulfilling audience needs.

Advice for Aspiring Speakers

For anyone terrified of public speaking, Marianne’s advice is refreshingly simple and actionable: Get the reps in. Start small by going live on social media for two minutes a day—practice is the only way through the fear. She assures listeners that everyone starts small, and reminds us, “Even if no one shows up, just do it anyway.”

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Episode Transcript

(00:42):
And welcome to another episode of Suck My Mind podcast. I am
your host wise and today's guest went from food
stamp to 2400 stages across 17 countries.
She's an international speaker and entrepreneur who helps people master the
message, overcome fear and turn their stories into
profitable purpose driven speaking career. She's proof that you can

(01:05):
start with nothing, step on the right stage and change your life.
And she's here to show you exactly how to do it. Let's welcome to the
Stuck In Mind podcast, Marianne Hickman.
Wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me, man. The pleasure's all mine.
I'm excited. I'm excited to have you. So let's, let's
jump right into this. Let's go. Take, take us back. What was life

(01:28):
before you? Your first speaking opportunity? Well, you
know, my first speaking opportunity I didn't give myself enough credit for. I started speaking
when I was like three, but I didn't know what I was doing right. My
church put me on stage as I have to give a big nod to churches
that put kids on stage because it just knocks the stage fright right out of
you. But when I really started being intentional about it, I wasn't in, you

(01:49):
know, I was in my 20s or 30s. So before that really started happening,
you know, I was. I got married really young. Like one star. Do
not recommend, like, if you give that a Yelp review. Don't do that.
I got. I missed my high school prom because my
wedding was the next month. Like, I was the only senior I knew that was
sitting there in science class with an engagement ring on her finger. But I thought

(02:10):
I was so cool, man. I thought I was. It was just so grown up
and so awesome. But what that meant was I threw myself into
some circumstances that taught me a lot, but that were avoidable if
I had done a little more listening and a little less ego.
And I found myself as a mom of five kids who I love and
adore. And when I was driving down the freeway, I

(02:33):
remember driving very specifically where I was. I was in Utah
in the, the Provo Orem area, for those of you that are familiar. It's right
by the university over there. Driving northbound on i15, I was driving my
2001 Mazda minivan, rocking it like a mom
should. Right? This van later caught fire in my garage, but
that's another story. So I'm sitting there and I'm. I'm just

(02:56):
at the lowest of the low. I feel like I'm
overweight. Cause I was. I feel like I'm Underpaid
because I was. My bank account was. I was like afraid
to open the app on my phone to look at my bank account because of
the numbers that I would see and the numbers that weren't there. Cause they were
big and red and had a negative sign in front of them and

(03:16):
all around me. I'm following the system, I'm following the steps, right?
I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. Going to college, I'm getting the degree,
I'm studying all the courses, spending countless hours at nights
doing everything that society says you're supposed to do. And it's not
working. I've got nine older siblings. They've all
got a level of success that I want, but I'm

(03:39):
not figuring it out yet. I'm. I'm on food stamps, I'm going
to, to Bishop storehouses and to the WIC
program. And I'm getting all these things to trying to feed my family. And I'm
kind of mad at this point. I'm kind of ticked
because I'm like, listen, I'm a good person. I'm not out there
committing crimes and not in trouble. But why have I just not

(04:01):
figured out how to. This
financial freedom concept that seems to be so elusive.
Why. Why have I not figured this out yet? I thought that just kind of
came with age. And I was wrong.
I was totally wrong. I, I thought I had passed the milestone. So I was
so frustrated. I was talking to God and sitting. He was sitting in my front

(04:23):
seat right there, right? That's the way I talk to God. We're just gonna have
car conversations. And I said, listen, what is going on? Because
I'm kind of ticked. I've got a hundred thousand dollars in debt between student
loans and all of these things that's going on. I said, listen, here's
what you gotta do. I'm like having a nose to nose, right?
Here's what you need to do. You need to either put a box of $100,000

(04:44):
on my front porch, cause I know you can, or
you need to put me in proximity with someone and tell
me who they are that can teach me this money game. Because I don't know
how to play. I don't know what the rules are. I don't know why I'm
not winning, what is going on. And I would
be lying if I said I didn't check the front porch for the

(05:06):
box of money. I imagined in my head be like a paper box, you know,
with like cash in it and all of that. And then in hindsight, I'm grateful
that that's not the way it went down, because that's not a sustainable solution. That's
not a solution that can repeat itself over time.
And God knew what he was doing. And he put me in proximity with someone
who said. Who showed me by direct instruction and by

(05:27):
example, how to turn
your inspiration, your life's message, your experiences, your
expertise in another fashion into something that is
sustainable because it helps people. People. Not everyone does this, guys.
Some people get on stage just to have a flash in the pan,
moment of success, take money and run. Those people

(05:50):
experience a high bout of success, but they don't last very long.
And then they're out either in jail or. Or
creating terrible reputations and they're bouncing up and down.
That's not success in my book. I want sustainable success. And I
remember I went to this seminar. I got home, put the van away another day.
I went to a seminar. You know, like, we all do the seminar junkies. And.

(06:13):
And some seminars are really cool. And some are like, dude, put the Kool Aid
away. This is really weird. So I go to the seminar and I watch this.
This guy on the stage, and he's delivering a
powerful message. It feels like it's kicking me in the chest,
right? And then I watch when he does this call to action.
In the speaking industry, that's what we call it when you tell the audience to

(06:34):
go do something. He does his call to action. And I
watched 700 people stand
up, go to the back of the room because
they're excited. They're not lemmings. They're not just doing what
they're supposed to do. They're excited. They want what's being offered. I wanted what
was being offered. It was a 300, remember DVD CDs.

(06:56):
That's what this was. This is a 300 set of DVDs and CDs
to transform your mind, transform your life, and to be a better person.
I couldn't afford it at the time. I didn't have $300 to drop on them.
But I watched this speaker, watched 700 people go back, and I
watched credit card transaction after transaction after transaction for
$300 a piece. And I did the math really quick and dirty, And I said,

(07:17):
700 times. 300 is a lot. How did
he do that? And how did he make it so. So
desirable for the audience? They wanted to get up and
they wanted to put their money there because. They valued what was at the back.
Of the room more than the money in them in their pocket. How did he
do that? So I started studying this and I'm going to say I'm a continual

(07:38):
student, I have experience. But I
think for anyone to say, I'm an expert, I have nothing more to learn.
I'm instantly not going to believe you because we're all here and none of us
are perfect yet. But I've been a student of this so much that it's generated
not only sustainable income for me and my family, but the coolest part is it's
generated sustainable income for my members, my students.

(08:00):
It has been the most phenomenal,
real definition of influence. Not the influence that we all think of
with the mascara and the fake eyelashes. That's. I don't believe in that. Right.
That's not influencership. Real influence means my life is
better, my story is better because I heard someone else's story. That's
influence to me. So what was that? What was that moment when you realized

(08:23):
your story could change lives? So this was
interesting. I was at another seminar. It feels like every story. I was at another
seminar, right. I was a seminar junkie. It was at another seminar.
And I'm sitting in the back of the room and I'm watching the speaker and
I'm the person in the back of the room that was like this with my
arms crossed and my feet crossed and everything closed off and crossed

(08:44):
off because I'm skeptical. I tend to overanalyze things. I was
at the back of the room at this other seminar and the instructor at the
seminar said, hey, it was kind of a whisper campaign. I don't think he meant
to do. It was an accident. He's like, I. I knew his co facilitator
wasn't going to be there. They're going to be traveling for the next event. And
the next event was like three, four months away. And in the back of the

(09:05):
room, the facilitator, when the MC got up, he came to the back and he
kind of whispered to his friends and he's like, hey, come back out in the
hall. I'm looking for another co facilitator for this
next upcoming event. And I overheard it and I gotta be
honest, I was not invited. But I went anyway. And I
went out in the lobby and I sat and I listened to these other

(09:27):
facilitators. What we were. It was kind of a hot seat where he was, you
know, asking other facilitators to get up. And so I was like, okay, I wasn't
invited, but I came anyway and they didn't kick me out. So I'm gonna take
a turn. And I got up and I started talking
and it was weird that people listened to.
And I was not used to this. I'm the youngest of 10 kids, so I
am not used to being heard. I have to work really hard when

(09:51):
I was a child to get my voice out there and to, to have
it mean something to somebody, at least from what my childhood traumas and all that
said. Right? So when I got up and I said something,
it was weird because when I was done, people were like. It wasn't an
awkward silence. It was kind of this in awe silence. Not to show how quick,
I don't, I'm not interested in that. But it's the first time I realized that

(10:13):
what I said really meant something to somebody.
And the facilitator said, hey, could you do that again? Could
you do that again? Could you come to the event and do it again? So
by the next event, I was co facilitating the event that I had just
barely attended as a back of the room, skeptical
attendee when we did that event together. What

(10:33):
happened next was the facilitator, he said, I think, I think you've got something
here. What if we were to teach this to other people?
We created this course and we started inviting people to join it.
Now at the time, we charged a lot more than I charge now. We charged
$25,000 for people to join this course. And they paid it and it was worth
it. And then what happened is that when people graduated this course,

(10:54):
they started throwing their own events and they started teaching the people. I went,
one of our first graduates threw an event and she made $19,000
at her first event. And I was like, hot dog. This
works. This is transferable.
This ability to communicate, this ability to influence people
for, for good. This is, this is a transferable

(11:16):
skill. We can teach people how to do this. And
if we can teach people how to do this, you know what's
cool about that is that you have a message, right? I
have a message, but I can't reach everybody.
I'm not supposed to, but if I can teach people how to become a
facilitator, then they can teach people that I will never

(11:39):
reach. Which sounds really altruistic, but
I do have an ulterior motive here. Okay? So I'm raising six kids in this
planet and I don't know everybody that they're
ever going to meet, they're going to interface with people
that, that I don't trust and interface with people that
I do trust, but I may never meet. Any of them. But if I can

(12:01):
take this back door and say I can influence somebody else for good, and that
person will become a facilitator and a speaker, and they're going to influence their rooms
for good, maybe, just maybe, some of those people will come
full circle and they'll be the people that interface with my
kids as they grow up. And maybe, just maybe,

(12:21):
we can change directly and indirectly because I only have so much influence over my
kids. Right? We're only a pro. We're not a prophet in our own country, as
they say. But if collectively
we're influencing people to behave better, we're saving people from. I'm going
to go deep here. We're saving people from suicide. We're saving people
from some, from slothfulness. We're saving people. We're

(12:42):
preventing criminals from ever having. Because we're collectively
increasing mental awareness, we're increasing mental health.
And so that's my detailed way of saying, I just want to make the world
a better place. I know that sounds altruistic and cliche, but it's true. Because my
kids are going to live past me, and I want them to have the best
environment that I can possibly make inside and outside my

(13:04):
home. So
what. What fears did you first you face when. When stepping on stage for
the first time? What was it like the first time you stepped on stage? How
was that? Oh, gosh. So there's some things that
I still carry, right? There's. There's still some. Some
jitters that I get. But in the first time, it was all about me.

(13:26):
When I was first getting on stage, it was, do I look
okay? How does my outfit? Do I look fat on this
stage? Am I going to remember all of my
lines? Am I going to remember the right stories? Am I going to
fall off the stage? Is my PowerPoint going to work?
All of these things that typically tumble through our heads, you know, as public

(13:49):
speakers, it was very me centric. What about me?
What about I? What about me? What about I? And I remember someone. I wish
I could give it credit, but I can't remember who said it. Someone told me
that stage fright is inherently selfish. I was like, what? What
do you mean? And they're like, well, think about it. You're thinking about you. What
about you? What about you? How are. What are they going to think of you?
How are you going to perform? Are you going to fall off the stage? Blah,

(14:10):
blah. And I was like, oh, my gosh, you're right.
So when I'm backstage now, I still get the Pre stage jitters, I don't know
if that ever goes away. And to be honest with you, I kind of don't
want it to because I think it keeps us in check
as human beings. I think it keeps us learning instead of
in ego. So when I'm in backstage now, what I'm

(14:33):
doing is if I'm in a physical room, I'm literally, like, peeking
through the curtain. I'm sure they can see my nose shining through like that. But
I'm watching the audience. I'm watching how they're responding to the speaker before
me. I'm watching to see if they're warmed up. I'm watching
to see if they're engaged. I'm looking for people that are on their phones in
the black holes and not even paying attention because those are the people that I

(14:54):
used to be. Those are the people that I was. So my pre
stage jitters now are not what about me, it's what about them.
Are, am I able to serve them? Am I able to
give them what they came for? What do they need?
Why did they get babysitters? Why did they take time off work?

(15:14):
Dude, I've been in events where people paid their last
dollar to buy the plane ticket and the Uber to get there and didn't have
any money for lunch. They're that desperate for
answers. I've been in events where a mom has come up to
me and said, my son is alive today because you
saw him and called him out at the last event.

(15:36):
That's my primary concern. Because, dude, the microphone, you know this. The microphone's a
sacred space. Yeah, absolutely. It's sacred. Like, we're.
We're taking people's time, they're investing their time. People are listening to their podcasts,
maybe because they prayed so hard and this is what they did for an answer.
So my goal whenever I step on stage, whether it's a physical or on a.
Right here on this podcast, is I'm just praying, listen, help me.

(15:57):
Help me think about the people that are on the other side, maybe that I'll
never meet. And, God, if there's something that
you have for them and I can be the mouthpiece, help me be so in
tune, please, so that I can deliver it so that they get the answer. I
don't even need credit. I don't need proof. I mean, it's nice when the proof
comes back that we did the right thing at the right time. I love hearing

(16:18):
that feedback. It just helps us, but I don't need it. I just
want to be I want to be the water slide that delivers the message
that someone needs to hear. I don't even need credit. I just need you to
get the message that you need to hear today. What. What role did mindset
play in creating this transformation for you? Dude? What is world does
mindset play in? In every. It's everything. It's

(16:41):
everything. Do you know how many times I'm like, okay, I'm gonna
share a story from last night. So I were at the. The family photo shoot
last night, and, you know, if you want to see
what your limits are, just schedule a family photo shoot, man. Because you
gotta look happy in those pictures, even if you feel like you've had a crappy
day. Right? Like, so we're at this family photo shoot. We

(17:02):
go to this cute little farm in our neighborhood, and
we're in this or the vineyard with the grapes growing on the other side.
And in the vineyard, in walks a surprise for all of us. But
this literal black sheep walks in.
He's cute and fluffy and slightly aggressive. And
I've got my whole family there. I've got my six kids. I've got my friend's

(17:25):
family there. We're doing. There's lots of children around. And this. This
sheep has a mind of its own. Walks up to
my daughter when she's not looking totally, like, from
behind, jumps in and headbutts her, knocks her over.
Poor girl. I mean, my daughter's 17, so she can take a hit.
Yeah. But it emotionally threw her for

(17:48):
a little bit. I mean, there was embarrassment that came up. Thank goodness she was
okay. No broken bones or anything. But it brought up a lot
of. Of. Of waterworks. It brought up a lot of emotion
for her, and I hope she's okay. Sienna, forgive me if you're not okay with
me telling this story quite yet. If it. It's still a little fresh, it's less
than 24 hours old. Right. Uh, but we talked about it today,
and this image came to my mind. And I'll get back to the

(18:11):
sheep thing, but I wanna paint another picture for you. If you have an orange
and you poke it and orange juice comes out, nobody's surprised.
It's because the orange juice was in there to begin with. Yeah. We're not going
to get pineapple juice. We're not going to get lemon juice. We're going to get
orange juice. If a sheep comes up to us and hits us in the back
and it brings up something, it's not the sheep. It was whatever was
within to begin with. You want Another place where you're going

(18:34):
to see what's inside. Go to the stage.
Go to the stage, because that's going to reveal what's inside of you.
So I found myself on stage
thinking about the audience again. When I'm at my best, I'm thinking about the
audience. Right. And it very quickly became apparent to

(18:55):
me that when we get on stage again, it's a sacred space. We have a
responsibility to speak
and tell our stories from a place of healed wounds, not
open wounds. I'm going to tell my story from a place of a
scar, not an open wound. So if I haven't finished
my story yet, if I haven't learned something from my story yet,

(19:18):
that story is not ready for the stage, because then I'm still the victim.
The last thing you and I want from public speakers is someone to go up
and trauma dump.
It's the worst when you get up on stage and you're done and someone from
the audience says, I feel so sorry for you. I'm so sorry that happened. Like,
what are we doing? This is not therapy. No, no. We have a responsibility

(19:41):
to. To have a strong enough mindset that
doesn't mean nothing will ever happen, but have a strong enough mindset to be
so resilient that when the sheep smashes through us in the
back or when we get in a car accident or when we're in traffic,
we have the mindset to say, okay, what am I learning? How am I a
better person? I don't have to be a perfect person, but how am I a

(20:02):
better person because of this? Because when we're
sitting in the audience, when you and I are sitting in the audience and we
are wowed by a public speaker, and that
same public speaker then flips us off when we're driving
through traffic like, something's not right there. Something's
not right there. If we are. Dean Graziosi puts it this way.

(20:23):
He said, if I go to the restaurant and I order something and they bring
something else out and I'm pissed, then my mindset is not
strong enough. That is not someone that should be on stage. We
have. Mindset is everything. It's what turns your story into a lesson.
It's what turns your experience into transformation
for somebody else. So it's not a requirement for us to be perfect.

(20:45):
We just have to be in practice, just like a physician.
We just have to be in practice well enough. Well
enough that we can help other people.
Where are the early failures that became key lessons for you?

(21:06):
Early failures. Okay, so early failures Ooh,
man. If you want early failures, go back and watch your old keynotes.
Most people won't do this. And I get it. It is, as the children are
saying nowadays, super cringe or whatever, but
watch your. Watch your old keynotes. I remember watching my old keynotes, and if I
go back now, Even my old YouTube stuff, if I go back and watch my

(21:29):
old YouTube and I critique myself, I'm like, girl, my body
language was so off, I didn't even know who I was.
I didn't understand the effect of tonality. I talked
way too fast. So there's all these little tips and
tricks and tools of the trade, but all of these things are all about
becoming a master communicator. It's all about

(21:52):
communication, right? I'm sure you just didn't
come out speaking. It took you
and doing it actually. Now I still mess up all the time.
I still biff it. I probably messed up six or seven times just in this
episode. I don't know. I'll go back and be like, oh, yeah, I probably should

(22:12):
have done that different. But I think the biggest mistake is being too hard on
yourself. That's the biggest mistake.
I was just at the. The National Speakers association conference down in
Arizona a couple weeks ago, and there was a woman on
stage, absolutely incredible. She was so funny. I loved her
keynote. It made me think about my keynote, how much more permission

(22:34):
I need to give myself to be funny, because otherwise, what are we doing here?
And I remember watching her get off stage and I made a point to go
up to her and said, listen, your keynote personally impacted me. I learned
so much about the kind of person I want to be because you got up
there and spoke. Noticed that.
I've noticed that. Where when I watch certain keynotes and. And

(22:56):
when they interject humor into their keynotes, it makes
it so much more entertaining. You enjoy it more because you're like, he made you
laugh. But at the same time, they also made you think. So
I. You're actually right. I enjoy that. That kind of keynote speaker who can
come out. And yes, they have what they have, they're saying, but at the same
time that you're also enjoying their humor. They just.

(23:19):
They might crack a good funny joke or whatever it is. But yeah, good humor
in a keynote speakers, it's fantastic. I'm working on being more
funny. I literally googled. I was like, I used to be funny. What happened?
How do I be funny again? I'm not even joking. This is so
embarrassing. But I went on Google and I was like, how do I be funny?
And I went to Amazon and bought a book on how to learn to be

(23:40):
funny again. So here I am trying to be
funny. Because you're right, Mr. Rogers said this. When we're having fun, when we're playing,
we learn better. So why not, why not have more fun?
Yeah, I guess I think I was
watching Dave Ramsey speak and, and he cracked the joke and it was
just so it was funny and, and just. But it made, it

(24:04):
made me enjoy what he was saying so much more. Yeah,
humor is, it's quite the state change. And my
idol, I wish I could interview him on my podcast. I, I
don't know, it's not possible. But one of my idols was Robin
Williams and if you remember any of his movies,
he was known for his humor and his comedy and his fun,

(24:26):
but was. So what was so beautiful about him as a person?
And I wish I could have known him on a more personal level. What was
so beautiful about him as a person is that he leveraged humor
so much because he was so familiar with pain,
he was so familiar with trauma. And that's ultimately what
took his life at the end. But if you watch

(24:49):
all of his films, Mrs. Doubtfire, you watch the
Patch Adams, you watch Dead Poet Society, you will see
this, this amazing psychological story arc
of the humor and the comedy and the questioning of authority figures and all these
things. And then he talks about real issues. You
know, Dead Poet Society has so much comedy in it, but it also talks about

(25:11):
suicide. Yeah. And why mental health is so important. And then Patch
Adams is talking about again, all of its humor, all of this
funny stuff. But then we're talking about, you know, real
issues like aging and physical disabilities. And same with
Mrs. Doubtfire. It's so funny. But then we're talking about blended and broken families
and how divorce affects people and how divorce affects children. And he

(25:34):
addressed these real issues, but he brought it into such
a light hearted comedy that it made the
trauma pill swallowable.
I wish I could interview the guy. I'm going to study him post mortem and
see what I can learn and find out. But that
comedy element helps us cope with the tough

(25:56):
stuff. Yeah. What's your process for
helping someone master their signature presentation? Because
is that something that someone should have? Is this signature presentation?
Yeah, I'd say so. You have what you become known for. But I also say
that with a caveat of your signature presentation is really best served

(26:16):
when it can always evolve, because we're always evolving.
I have met some master facilitators names that you would know
whose keynotes haven't evolved in 20 years. And you know what, they're
super successful. And I can't throw shade on it because I'm not as well known
as they are. Clearly they're doing something that's working. But I also have a
massive amount of respect for keynotes that are relevant

(26:39):
and current, having to do with relevant things, things that are happening
right now in the news, in society, in culture,
because that's what a lot of our traumas are dealing with. That's why
people go to seminars. That's what we need help with, is real time
issues that are real life. So, yes, you'll have a keynote, you'll have what you
become known for. And when it comes to how do we develop

(27:01):
that. So there's, there's a framework that I like to give to people that's
a ten step framework. And what's gorgeous about this framework, it's
elegant, is that you can have this framework, it's like a
blueprint operating in the background. But when
you design your house, yes, you have the blueprint, but then you go in and
you pick the drapes and you pick a color of the carpet, and you pick

(27:22):
the tile and you pick the fixtures and all of these things, you can
have the same blueprint but dress it up
differently, suiting the needs of your audience every time, which
is so great because you can be in front of any crowd, you can have
any topic thrown at you. And if you know your blueprint and you
understand the audience well enough, you can put the story where it needs to

(27:45):
go, you can put the lesson where it needs to go, you can make the
audience participation feed in where it needs to go. You can put the call to
action where it needs to go. And psychologically, because we understand how the brain works,
it will have hopefully the desired effect if you follow the
blueprint. So you have your blueprints color it in however
that room needs you to so that your audience can

(28:06):
get what they came for. Absolutely.
So how, how can, sorry, how can speakers turn one time
keynote into an ongoing revenue stream? Okay, this is a really good
question. So there's, there's, there's
two ways that people get paid to keynote. And the first way is what

(28:26):
generally is most often thought of when we
keynote. And that's a stage fee. Stage fees are great. There's
lots of pros to them. Stage fees are great because you can get paid 5,000,
10,000, 15, 25,000 for an hour of work.
And that's not really fair to say, because you did all the 20 years of
experience to lead up to that hour. But that's what they're hiring you for, is

(28:46):
that one hour of work. And that's really well and good because you, you fly
in or you drive in, or you log on, you deliver
your keynote, you take the check and then you're done. You don't have
fulfillment after that, you don't have to do follow ups after that. And
that's all well and good. However, I will say that you're
leaving 60% of your revenue on the table if that's the only

(29:09):
way you're getting paid. If you're amazing
at your craft, if you're an amazing keynote speaker, if you
move the audience, if you're more than a speaker, you're what I call a facilitator
because you're making things easier for the audience. That's what facilitate means.
Then your audience is going to want more of you and
they're going to want to work with you after you get off stage, and they're

(29:30):
going to want to be around you after you get off stage. And they're going
to want to do whatever you're talking about, whether you're talking about how to
crochet, or whether you're talking about holistic wellness, or whether you're talking
about how to train dogs, or whatever your keynote is about, whatever it might
be, could be any topic whatsoever. The most
sustainable and lucrative way to get paid to speak

(29:52):
is by having a system where you can go into an association or
whoever's hiring you, or even throw your own events and you can say,
listen, I'll speak for free, but I want to give a resource away
to the audience. That makes sense. It needs to be a very natural
next step, right? So when I speak to audiences, a lot of times I have
a book of resources I can give away. I can give away my 10 step

(30:13):
guide to your keynote. I'll give that away for free. I'll give away my podcast
database so you can go get stages and whatever, whatever the audience needs. And then
what happens from there is that when you keep feeding your audience,
they're going to say, okay, great. For example, so I give away my podcast database,
right? Give it away for free, go to the database, find podcast,
apply, get booked, and I give it away. And usually what will happen

(30:34):
is that people will come to me and be like, okay, so I went through
this database. I. It takes a lot of work to go in
and apply and get seen. Can you just do it for Me, you have a
team that can do it for me. And I'll be like, yeah, sure, we can
do that. It's 150 bucks a month. Sure. And then I'm bringing in clients
because they asked me. This is the coolest part. I'm not having

(30:55):
to do, like, beg and plead, please become my client.
No, it's. It's. I'm gonna just give away as much as I
possibly can. And the moment someone says, can you do it for me? I
say, here's how that's set up. Sure. And then they're like, good, because I would
rather pay you to do it than do it myself. That's my
favorite way to do business when it's a win for everybody, and

(31:18):
it's just very natural. It's like paying your electric
bill. It's what you do because you would prefer to have the electricity than the
money in your pocket. Right? Those are the best transactions
you can possibly have in business, and it makes you
ton more money than speaker fees.

(31:39):
For people terrified of public speaking, where should they start? Like,
how. How should they start? What should be something they should do?
First of all, get the reps in, because it's really hard to be
scared of something that you're really used to doing, right?
So here's your assignment. If you're really afraid of public speaking, I want
you to go live on your favorite platform, whether it's LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok,

(32:02):
whatever your favorite platform is, and start a live video and
go for two minutes and then be done. It doesn't matter what
you talk about. You can talk about your expertise, you can talk about what you
had for dinner last night. Just get visible and practice using words
in front of other people. Because if you want to speak more, you have to
speak more. Crazy, huh? So go for. Go live for

(32:23):
two minutes and do that every day for the next week, and
then every day for the week after that, and then every day for the week
after that and do it for 30 days. And I promise you,
if you get the reps in every day for 30 days, just going live
for two minutes speaking is going to become way easier for you because
you're used to it. I'm

(32:44):
going to do that even though I do my. I do my podcast live three
times a week. But I'm going to do. I'm going to challenge myself to go,
because I always say, yeah, I'm going to do TikTok live. I'm doing Instagram.
I'm a challenge myself to do for 30 days, to at least two minutes a
day on TikTok. Two minutes. Two minutes is so
easy. Even if no one shows up. No one showed up to my first keynote.
That means no one saw me mess up. Which is fine. Just do it

(33:07):
anyway.
What does authentic and impactful mean when it comes to monetizing a message?
Oh, that's. Ooh, authentic and impactful. No.
Okay, so we have really gone
really far away from what influencer

(33:28):
really means. I mentioned it before. Like, I'm not about the limp, plump and.
And fake lashes. I have had fake lashes. There's nothing wrong with
this, ladies. If you want it because it saves you time, go for it. But
it's not mandatory to be beautiful. Okay, so
influencer today. And today's definition.
It's hard to. To find an influencer.

(33:50):
They do exist. But it is hard to find an influencer who
has authenticity, because we are not
paid for authenticity. We are paid for trends.
We are paid for popularity. That's what
typically brings in the social credit score. And when I say paid,
I'm talking in terms of social credit score. Right, but

(34:12):
it's the same thing. It usually hits a flash in the pan, and
then you're done. What pays long term
is what you mentioned. Authenticity, vulnerability
as part of it. I'm willing to get on stage even when I'm
imperfect, because that's all I will ever be. Right?
And in being really genuine, admitting

(34:36):
struggles, there's still things that I struggle with. And for any of us to
pretend that we don't have anything we struggle with, run the other
direction. If you ever have a mentor or anyone that you
admire, look up to say, I'm not dealing with limits anymore. I'm like,
who do you think you are? This is the skeptic in me coming back.
Like, who do you think you are? You don't have any. You stopped learning.

(34:59):
You stopped growing. I'm gonna run
the other direction because I'm not done learning, and I'm not done growing, and my
mentors darn well better have mentors. So when
it comes to authenticity, and like I mentioned before, there's stories
that are ready for the stage, and there's stories that aren't ready for the stage.
The issue that I have is telling a story

(35:23):
not ready for the stage that you think is ready for the stage. I'll give
you an example. So let's just say I'm gonna make up something
hypothetical here. Let's just say that
I'm getting. I got divorced. I've been divorced before. That's real but in this
hypothetical, let's just say I got divorced and I'm still blaming my ex husband
for things. I'm pointing the finger of blame. It's his fault,

(35:45):
it's. He was such a blah, blah, blah, you know, fill in the blank. Anyone
that's ever been divorced, we've all been tempted and we've all probably indulged
in the finger pointing and the blaming and so forth. But if I'm getting up
there and I'm saying, hey, listen, I'm so good because it was
their fault, that lacks humility, that
lacks growth, that in, in my divorce scenario,

(36:07):
we were both at fault. We both. I
lacked self respect and that, that's a
big deal. I lacked the ability
to. I'm just going
to admit it. I, I lacked the ability to have healthy intimacy. I did
in the relationship. That is no longer a thing. I lacked the ability to

(36:31):
hold self respect boundaries. I was a
doormat. I was not good at
being who I knew I should be. I was not setting a
good example for my kids. Man, it's, it's, it's hard to
say lack of self respect can be so bad, but it is. It can be
so expensive and it teaches my kids terrible things.

(36:55):
So when I got real with that, that
story wasn't ready for the stage. I had to go through it, I had to
walk through it. I had to develop self respect. I had to develop self respect
so much that it poured out into other people and respecting others. And by
then, now that story's ready for the right audience. That's not about,
that's not my platform necessarily. But if I'm using that as an example,

(37:15):
I can be authentic and talk about my experience and say, listen, I messed up.
This is what I did to, to get better. And it's crazy because
when we lack that ability to
be honest about ourselves, as I mentioned before, we can be a flash
in the pan. We can get social credit scores in terms of followers and counts,
but it's not sustainable. You can get popular by being

(37:38):
fake. Yes, you can. But you cannot stay popular by being
fake. You can great gate a great income by being
inauthentic and disingenuous. It can happen, but you
can't keep it by being disingenuous. It
just won't happen.
What is, what do you see changing in the speaking industry right now?

(38:01):
Well, Covid did a number on us. Didn't.
Did a big number on us. It taught us a lot of things. There's a
lot of digital movement in the speaking industry. Right now,
podcasts, I think, you know, I haven't studied the numbers.
I've just observed them. I haven't, like, pulled reports or anything like that. But I've
just made an observation that the number of podcasts, for example, have

(38:24):
shot through the roof since the time of COVID because we're
all locked in our basements, right? We're all like, I should make a studio out
of this. This is where I am right now, right? Anyone can do a podcast,
which is really cool. So that's done a lot of good for speakers because it
allows conversations like this to happen. We can get on a digital.
I don't have to drive anywhere, I don't have to get on a plane. I
don't have to do any, like, babysitting beyond, like, hey,

(38:47):
honey, can you watch the kids for a little bit? Right? That. That enables a
lot more stages. And what that does is twofold. One, it's never
been easier for speakers to get stages, but that
has pros and cons because it means a lot of
stages probably won't last because it's
never been easier. So I. I see a lot of podcasts. Alex

(39:09):
Harmozi says that if your podcast makes it past episode 20, you are
automatically in the top 1% of podcasts
worldwide, which is pretty cool. But it just goes to
show that a lot of podcasts start lack the stick
to it of ness to them. Same with a lot of events. So
because events have never been easier, it's never been easier to get booked on stages,

(39:30):
but it's also requiring a lot
more of facilitators and speakers to
stay relevant. It's requiring a lot more
of us as hosts to stay. It's easy to start, it's not easy to
stay. And that's beautiful because it makes those of us
that have been around for 50, 70, 100, 2000 episodes

(39:53):
to maintain that longevity or maintains credibility with our
fan base. So that landscape is changing for speakers, I would say
a lot more digital stages are becoming available,
and we are now, because we are allowed to gather. Once
again, physical events are becoming a lot more
accessible. They're becoming a lot more common. And again, because

(40:15):
we're there, the quality, because it's so easy, the quality is
varied. So we as human individuals, we need to become a lot
more discerning as to which events deserve our
time, not just as speakers, but as attendees as
well. So we need to be more
critical of where we put our time, energy and

(40:37):
effort. And we can only be critical if we know what our goals Are. And
then we can stack the event, either as an attendee or as a speaker, up
against our goals and say, does this match? And that's the question that
we should be asking. No matter what the landscape looks like, does
this fall in alignment with my goals? And if it doesn't, do something else.

(40:58):
So how can someone stand out in a crowded speaking market
right now? Well, one longevity. If
you want to stand out, just keep going. That's
number one thing. Number two is to become
more of who you are. And here's what I mean by that. I don't know
if you remember back in high school chemistry, the periodic table.

(41:21):
Yeah. Remember that? Periodic. Okay. It's a pretty general, commonly used
thing. Okay. So someone put it this way. For me, it was really crazy. They
said, I'm gonna get scriptural for a second. I hope that's okay.
So when. When Jesus said, be ye even as
I am, a lot of us are like, well, that's intimidating because
you're perfect and I'll never be. So what do you mean by that?

(41:42):
Someone put it to me this way. They said, okay, go back to the periodic
table. You take a look at gold over here on the periodic table. Then you
have helium over here on the periodic table. Then you've got oxygen over here on
the periodic table. Do you think oxygen is overlooking it there, Looking at gold
and being like, man, I wish I was gold. I wish I was. I wish
I was, like, shiny and not oxygen, and I wish I had different

(42:03):
number of electrons and I could. No, that's not happening. That's.
No, no, we're not wishing to be something else.
Oxygen is most
volatile, powerful, and valuable
when it is pure oxygen. Same thing with
helium. Same thing with gold and silver and

(42:23):
freon and iron and all of these elements. They are the most powerful,
valuable, and volatile when they are in their purest
form. So if you want to stand out as a speaker, become the
purest version of you. Don't
pretend to bidding anybody else. When I train my facilitators, I'm not training him to
speak like me. I'm training him to become a more pure version

(42:45):
of themselves, because that's when they're most valuable. So if you want to be funny,
be funny. If you want to be serious, be serious. But be really
good at it. If you want to have. Do the splits on stage, do the
splits on stage. Just. You can't be anyone else. No
one should be walking around trying to be Tony Robbins. Guess what? He's taken.
Yeah, the world can't Handle more than one of him. You should be working on

(43:07):
being you. And it's funny because
I have a bunch of friends that they do.
Their podcasts are more entertainment, so
they have more celebrities. They get, they get to speak to all
these other. And I'm like, oh, man, that sounds so dope. Because they're
interviewing well known celebrities and,

(43:31):
and I'm. And I'm kind and I get. And I said, damn, I wish I
could do the numbers. They're like, okay, yeah, we're doing some great
numbers, but we want to do what you're doing because you're talking to people
that have, that are making impact. Yeah, we're talking to celebrities and all this, but
you're, you're speaking to coaches, you're speaking entrepreneurs. You're actually
making an impact. The content you're creating

(43:52):
is beneficial for other people. Yeah, there are people in theater, they're like, people are
entertained by what we do. Great. But what you're doing
is much more important. You're sharing stories, you're sharing
inspiration. Like we said we want to do that. And
it made. And it just. And it. Yeah, it blew my mind. Like,
look, here I am jealous of them

(44:15):
and they're looking at me like, wishing they could do what I do. And I'm
like, I was just blown by. That's crazy that you're looking over
the fence at each other and be like, wow, I wish we could do blah,
blah, blah, man, we just gotta, gotta knock that off, you know,
man, Why? I was thinking about it one day and this is after
the craziest thing happened. I watched again.

(44:37):
Covid did weird things to us. I watched this lady on Instagram who's giving
massage therapy treatments over zoom.
Yeah, yeah, that's what my face did too. So, like, the patient is laying there
on a zoom call and she's like doing this to the screen, just massaging
thin air over the screen. I was like, are you serious right now?
She's getting paid to do this? She wasn't touching.

(45:00):
No, she's just waving her fingers in front of her camera. I'm
like, gotta be kidding me. If she's getting paid to do
virtual massage therapy, then there's no excuse
for the rest of us. We should be able to get paid to do
what we enjoy. This is a Japanese principle of ikigai.
It's actually super cool to study, but, man, if we just gave

(45:22):
ourselves permission to do what we love,
there's compensation for that, man. Yeah,
well, so what's the first step for someone who Wants to book their first paid
gig. Okay, good question. Good question. So are we
shooting for a speaker fee or are we shooting for,
you know, getting paid off the stage? First you gotta decide that, am I looking

(45:44):
to get paid a speaker fee or have I built a system to. To where
when I get off stage, I can serve customers? That way you got to decide
which track you're going for because you can't split your attention on both. Okay,
it's nice to have both. You can do both. But if you're wanting to book
your next one, you have to pick, right? So if you want to get a
speaker fee, that's going to

(46:05):
require you to know people who pay
speakers to come in. So I would say there's a resource of
speaker bureaus. However, I would say they are very
difficult to get into. You can't just walk in and say, I want
to be represented by you as a speaker bureau. You have to have some longevity
and some track record under your belt. So this is good. If you've already got

(46:27):
several stages and you're just like saying, oh, I should probably get paid to do
this. Now you can get a speaker bureau to represent you, or
you can go to associations. Lots of associations pay
external talent to come in and speak. And their, their
budgets are different, so you'll have to negotiate whatever your
speaker fee is with them. Associations and also universities.

(46:49):
Universities have budgets for this. Usually they have grants and scholarships
to pay outside speakers to come in. So
if they have a budget for it, you know that there's probably a check in
there somewhere for you. So that's not an issue. It's just negotiating your speaker
fee at that point so you can approach colleges and universities and have
them. Again, you have to do a lot of applications if you're. If you're new

(47:10):
to getting paid to speak, you have to put out a lot of applications. But
again, it's this consistency we've been talking about. If you're consistent, something's
going to pop and you're going to learn something about how to get paid, and
then you're going to do more of that. You'll get more paid speaking gigs. The
next way is if you're not looking for speaker fee right away. I know this
is going to sound so scary that most of you won't do it, but just
trust me on this one. Host your own event, post your

(47:32):
own webinar, post your own zoom call. I have a buddy of
mine, his name is Jeff Walker. I have his book right here. Like,
I'm not an Evangelical proselytizer. But
this book has made me so much money by throwing my own
events that I do virtual events. I do in person
events. And it's amazing because it's. It.

(47:55):
I made $15,000 using this methodology of just hosting my
own event. That was just the last event. And 15 grand at the last event
was so cool. Our company is over six figures because we
host our own event over six figures in its first year. This next year we're
gonna. Let's see. We've only been in business officially as an entity. I've
been teaching for a long time, but our entity started just last year. We made

(48:16):
our first six figures in our first year. We're looking at more than doubling it
this year. And it's. It's just been amazing. I've been making millions of dollars
for other people on other stages for a long time and now we're doing it
on our own. We're like, yeah, let's do this. Let's do it for other people
too. So if you want to get paid to speak not with the
speaker fee, host your own event and have something that your
audience wants and is willing to pay for

(48:39):
and sell it at your event. Do that again and again and again
and you've got a viable business. And then that's.
That's the difference now with hosting your. Because
now can you being able to. A lot of people are doing it virtually. It
gives you another platform now. Now it doesn't always have to
be in person. It can be a virtual event. Oh, absolutely.

(49:01):
I go to virtual events all the time.
Absolutely. Yeah. So what's next for you? More stages,
programs, books? Oh, yeah. So we've. We've
been writing books and I've got a book that I just thought of.
And again, I haven't told anybody about this. I wasn't even going to tell anyone
I was writing it, but here I am. I put together a book. It just

(49:25):
came to me while I was sitting in my closet Sunday night.
And I want to call the book Uninfluenced.
And I want to go into the deep psychology of why we do what we
do. What has social media done to
our behavior as a society, as
religious groups, as social groups? And how do we start

(49:47):
thinking critically for ourselves again? Because we have a responsibility
to do that. Otherwise we're going to end up like the people in Wally with
our mobile wheelchairs, just looking for the next AI
generated meal or whatever. We're headed in that direction. It's kind of scary.
So I want to create this book, it's right now just sitting in my notes
on my phone. But this is the first time I've told anybody about it, so

(50:07):
I guess it has to happen now. I think I
want to buy that book, dude. I've been doing so
much research about this. So that's coming up. We're also hosting a bunch of retreats.
We're throwing a women's retreat next summer to help the women who are
in the speaking industry just have some friends because most of us are on an
island. We're going to be hosting some couples retreats coming up next spring because a

(50:30):
lot of people run their business like my husband and I do, and the HR
department is overwhelmed because it's you and your husband
and. Or your wife or whatever. Like it. Doing business together is hard and
it's tricky and it's difficult. So we're going to be helping those people get going
and it's that. That's what's next for us. That short term,
long term, man, I've got. Our goal is to put

(50:52):
people on a million stages and help them make a billion dollars doing it. And
based on our numbers that we've been tracking, we are 5.4% there.
So we're on our way. Just chipping away at that goal. Awesome. Awesome.
So what's your message to someone listening who feels too small to get on
stage? Well, that's all in your
mind. If you're feeling like you're too small

(51:15):
or too insignificant, or your story isn't traumatic enough, or your story
is too traumatic, or you don't have enough followers, or
you don't feel authentic, these are
all absolute lies.
100% absolute lies. Let me tell you what's really happening.
There's a little demon sitting on your shoulder. That little shoulder devil

(51:38):
is sitting on your shoulder, terrified of you.
They are so scared of you that they are telling you the exact
opposite of the truth in hopes that you will believe it and
not make the impact and leave the message that you were supposed to
leave on this planet. Do you know how many people are scarring
the planet and leaving a mark for bad?

(52:01):
Just think about 1944, Germany. We all know. We all know
world history enough to know the mark that that man left behind. I'm not even
going to speak his name. You don't deserve it. If that
man can make that much of an impact, why shouldn't
you? You have no excuses. And the
cool part is that little shoulder devil, he's an idiot. He's

(52:23):
stupid because he's telling you the exact opposite of the truth. So if you
think you're too small, guess what the truth is. You are freaking
larger than life, and you're being told that lie to keep you thinking
something else. If you ever have a limit or a fear or.
Or this. This idea that you're less than. I got a news flash,
guys. We know how this ends. We know the good guys win.

(52:47):
You just gotta decide whose jersey you're wearing. And
if you wear the jersey that says, I'm part of the good guys, I'm winning,
it's gonna look different than you think it might. Because the way
that we don't win is by doing nothing.
The way that we don't win is by doing nothing. So kick that little shoulder
devil off, send him back to hell where he came from, and say, oh, my

(53:09):
gosh, I just got the biggest clue into my potential. I'm not too small to
play. I'm the biggest player out there because my name means something, and I'm
out here to make a difference. All right, man, this
has been a heavy episode. I love this. Great.
But now we've come to the part of the show where you. You get the
solo screen and you get to plug away. Basically, your call

(53:30):
to action is coming right now. So let's go. Well, listen, if you've been on
this show and you've liked what you've heard, maybe I'm not for you and I'm
okay. But if. Listen, if you want to hang out and you want to get
on more podcasts and you know your message is going to change the world or
maybe the world of just one person, right? This is what I want you to
do. I want you to just text me
801-509-5495, tell me that you

(53:51):
heard me on this show, and let's chat. Let's talk about what you're wanting
to do, let's talk about the lives you're wanting to impact, and let's talk about
how to do it sustainably. Because if your mission is worthy, it's worthy of
being funded, and we should be able to do this. Yes, we have altruistic
reasons. Yes, we have lives we need to change, but we can't do that if
we're worried about paying the water bill. We can't do that if we're worried about

(54:13):
keeping the lights on. You deserve to be compensated for what you know, what you
do and what you love. And you deserve to change as many lives as possible.
It's funny how money can magnify that for you. So let's talk. Just
text me, tell me that you heard me on the show, and let's just talk
about whatever's on your heart, whether it's getting on more stages, learning how to get
paid, building your back end CRM. My husband's an expert that he can
hook you up. But let's get your message out there, because you and I both

(54:35):
know that this planet that we live on, the societies that we live
in, the cities that we live in, the churches that we go to, we need
more good people that know how to use their voice. So that's what I'm here
for. Awesome. Awesome.
That's great. Great. All right, don't leave just yet. Let me close
out the show, but thank you. You've been such a great guest. I.

(54:56):
I love the nugget. You dropped some great nuggets. So I'm. I'm excited to cut
this up and. And release the. The clips to this, but thank you so
much being. Being such a great guest. I hope it serves your people. That's the
goal. No, you did. You did a wonderful job. Thank you so much. But don't
leave yet. Let me close out and we'll chat a little bit off the air.
But thank you so much. I greatly appreciate it. My pleasure.

(55:18):
All right, everybody, if this episode lit that fire in you
to finally share your story, connect with Marianne Hickman and learn how to
master your message and monetize your speaking. And if you know something,
something, someone's sitting on a story that could change lives, send them this
episode because they might just be on stage. They just might be on
stage one day away from everything that they've been dreaming of. So stay

(55:41):
bold, stay ready, stay wise. And thank you to everyone who's tuning in.
Greatly appreciate it. Peace.
Sa.