November 10, 2025 • 40 mins
In this inspiring episode of the Stuck In My Mind Podcast, host Wize El Jefe sits down for an illuminating conversation with Suzanne Roberta Martens—entrepreneur, beauty industry veteran, and founder of the luxury clean beauty brand Adesse New York. This episode is a masterclass in resourcefulness, resilience, and the power of pursuing your dreams—no matter the obstacles.
From Industry Titans to Indie Trailblazer The episode opens as Wize El Jefe introduces Suzanne Roberta Martens as someone who has not only worked for global icons like Estee Lauder, Avon, and Revlon but has also boldly stepped out to carve her own path within the competitive world of cosmetics. Listeners are treated to the backstory of a woman who dreamed of her own beauty brand since college, a vision fueled by her fascination with the ever-evolving beauty landscape.
Working at the leading edge of brands reformulating their products for safety and wellness, Suzanne Roberta Martens learned every aspect of the business—from concept to market, branding to formulation, and manufacturing to positioning. She recounts how her specialty in skincare and color cosmetics paved the way for her to develop innovative approaches to product creation, especially as the industry transitioned towards clean ingredients.
The Power of AI and Agility A key highlight of their discussion is the transformative role of technology. Both Wize El Jefe and Suzanne Roberta Martens share their experiences integrating AI into their creative and business processes, accelerating everything from product development to audience engagement. For Adesse New York, leveraging AI means not only tracking consumer trends but also using predictive modeling to ensure product launches meet real customer desires. Unlike larger corporations bogged down by long product development cycles, Suzanne Roberta Martens's agile team harnesses tech to innovate and adapt swiftly—something essential for indie brands seeking to disrupt established markets.
Bootstrapping and Breaking In What makes Suzanne Roberta Martens’s journey particularly inspiring is her candor about starting with almost no funding. She explains that, far from being a setback, this forced her to be inventive. By identifying a major gap—clean nail care in an industry otherwise moving towards wellness—she conceptualized Adesse as a skincare-for-nails brand. Approaching contract manufacturers with a vision, not capital, she convinced partners to work in small production runs. Her unique perspective, treating nail care as skin care and using high-quality color pigments, enabled Adesse to stand out immediately.
Through strategic partnerships with top beauty subscription companies, Adesse achieved massive exposure early on and quickly scaled from selling thousands to tens of millions of bottles. Suzanne Roberta Martens reflects on the exhilaration and terror of leaving the security of corporate America, betting on herself—and how the sense of truly helping people reclaim their nail health propelled her forward.
Making Clean Beauty Accessible Wize El Jefe and Suzanne Roberta Martens dive deep into what sets Adesse New York apart: clinically effective, clean, and vegan nail formulas free from harmful toxins. Their conversation explores why avoiding ingredients that penetrate the body through the nails is vital, especially for conscious consumers already committed to health in other areas of life.
A Pivotal QVC Moment—and the Pandemic Pivot Listeners are taken behind the scenes of Adesse’s big break: being selected as one of just 400 out of 20,000 brands to debut on QVC. Suzanne Roberta Martens recalls the grueling safety testing, the anticipation, and the heartbreak of COVID-19 shutting down the studio just as she was set to go live. Not to be deterred, she pivoted to a makeshift home studio, adjusting her expectations—and wardrobe!—and successfully launched a nail care solution exactly when the world desperately needed it. This segment is a testament to the entrepreneur’s tenacity and ability to turn setbacks into opportunity.
Carving a Niche Among Giants How does an indie brand thrive in the shadow of billion-dollar conglomerates? By staying nimble, deeply tuning in to consumer needs, and using digital platforms to level the playing field. New selling channels, from Amazon Live to direct-to-consumer apps like Whatnot, allow agile brands like Adesse to reach global audiences and control their destiny, without gatekeepers. Suzanne Roberta Martens shares her excitement about the democratization of retail and how indie founders today have unprecedented potential to build relationships with customers around the world.
Redefining Success and Building Community The conversation shifts to the meaning of success. Suzanne Roberta Martens admits her early ambition was all about landing major retail partners. Today, she finds fulfillment in directly serving her loyal customer
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:42):
And welcome to another episode of stuck in my mind podcast.
I am your host, WICE.
And today's guest went from working with some of the most iconic brands in beauty,
as they loud on Avon Revlon, to building her own Duxury Clean Beauty Company, a desi
New York.
Suzanne Robberter-Marthons is proof that you don't need millions to start a beauty brand,
(01:04):
just create, vision, and relentless persistence.
From launching on QVC during the pandemic to carving out space in an industry dominated
by giants, Suzanne's story is all about resilience, resourcefulness, and staying true to your
dream.
And this welcome to stuck in my mind podcast, Suzanne Robberter-Marthons.
(01:28):
I'm Freda, it's so nice to be here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Thanks for helping me.
So, so for you people out there, me and Suzanne know each other outside of the pocket because
I mean her husband are co-workers, so I'm excited to have her on the show, but let's
jump right into this.
(01:49):
So, Suzanne, you said you dreamed of owning your own cosmetic company since college.
What sparked that dream?
So, after graduating from college, I had the great fortune to go to work in the BD industry
and it was in New York City and it was at the time when the very early stage of the BD
(02:10):
industry changing so that companies like the ones you mentioned, the ones I worked with,
with Estee Lauder, Revlon, Avon were all starting to clean up their formulas.
So, removing any toxic or harmful ingredients and replacing those ingredients with cleaner,
healthier ingredients.
So, I had a great opportunity to learn from the best in the industry, working with Estee
(02:45):
Lauder, and the best way of doing it.
And of course, just being a lover of the beauty industry and beauty products, I always dreamed
of having my own cosmetic company one day.
What did you learn from working with the powerhouse brands?
Oh, gosh, that's such a great question.
(03:08):
I learned everything.
I learned how to bring a product from concept to production to market launch.
I learned branding.
I learned product positioning.
I learned formulation.
I learned how to reverse engineer formulas to, like I said earlier, remove toxic ingredients
(03:32):
and replace them with clean ingredients.
I learned my specialty was in skincare and color cosmetic product development.
So, from that opportunity, I learned how to create and build products.
I also learned how in really large companies that the life cycle of product development
(03:56):
is very long.
I say product development that encompasses everything from the initial idea through market launch.
So, with a desa being a smaller indie brand, indie meaning independently owned,
we are very agile and we move very quickly.
(04:17):
And we do product development now using AI technology that really helps us speed
product to market much faster than back when I started in the industry.
Oh yeah, and me personally, I use AI as well to help me with the show.
And I use it as what it's intended for, as the tool to help me grow my podcast, grow whatever
(04:40):
business that I'm doing. So I can imagine how beneficial it's been, especially with time.
It's something that's very important that using AI has cut time for me and a lot of the things
that I'm doing as far as podcasting, book publishing, everything else.
Yeah, for us too. I mean, the way we used to do product development was to, you know, a lot of
(05:08):
a lot of new product innovation comes from the ingredient story. So finding a great ingredient
and then building a product or product line or a collection around that ingredient. But
and so, you know, a lot of development time, a lot of R&D time and resources. And now the way we
(05:30):
do product development using AI as a tool is to aggregate consumer data that we get from our
customers, which tells us what they're buying, what they like, how consumers are using AI to search
building products, you know, backwards from the consumer demand data. And we can use AI modeling to
(05:57):
create products and test them with consumers and buyers before we go into either full production or
even pilot production or lab production. So, you know, if we create a product based on
consumers looking for, I'll just give you an example. Let's say consumers are really excited
(06:20):
about Hibiscus as an ingredient in skincare. And we know this because the consumer data shows us
that consumers are searching for products with Hibiscus, they're purchasing products with Hibiscus,
and then we can break that data down and we can see what they're buying, why they're buying it,
what they like about it, what they want it to do, and from that data, really develop products
(06:46):
that speak directly to the consumer desire. So it's a really exciting time to be in beauty. I feel like
my company is a technology company operating in the beauty space. That's awesome.
But many people feel intimidated to start because they don't have funding. How did you launch a
New York with almost no money? Sure ignorance. Honestly, if I thought about the fact that I had no money,
(07:14):
I wouldn't have done it. But working in the beauty industry and then working as a consultant
have helping other brands, develop brands, export into international markets. I had gotten to a
point where I just felt like this is the time to build my own company and my own brand. And so,
(07:39):
I developed the concept. I looked across the whole beauty industry landscape and every category
in beauty was being cleaned up. So clean hair care, clean skin care, color, cosmetic, body care,
even fragrance. But the nail category was still using very toxic dirty ingredients like formaldehyde,
(08:00):
toweline, trickle of sand, all these bad ingredients were going on people's nails and nails are
porous, right? So when you put something on your nails, it eventually seeps into the bloodstream.
So we said, let's create a clean nail brand that uses clean plant-based skin care ingredients
(08:21):
that really help treat the root of the nail problem. So that customers can use products that help
their nails get healthy and don't have to deal with all the problems that typically happen with
with people's nails. So we went to a contract manufacturer and we laid out the concept and we
(08:42):
said here's what we want to do. We want you to develop it with us. We have no money and we want
you to run small productions so we have production samples that we can then take out to show to buyers.
And they like the concept. So we got really lucky and we went forward and it took us about
(09:05):
a year and a half, almost two years to develop all the formulas. And a desi is so different because
we didn't come from the nail space. So we developed the products like skincare for nails. We
developed the nail polish like color cosmetics using the same kind of pigments and ingredients
that are used in skincare and color polish respectively. So, you know, we did really well. We
(09:34):
launched the brand in March of 2015 on our website in Amazon. And then we started to partner with
some of the US largest beauty subscription companies like Ipsi, Birchbox, FabFitFun. And
(09:55):
you know, huge numbers of their customers and influencers in the beauty space. And they really
loved the brand. They loved the product. So, you know, we scaled very quickly from initially 7,000
bottles to now over 35,000, 35 million bottles sold. And, you know, it's been exciting to
(10:18):
be able to bring a nail care brand into the market that actually helps customers improve their
nails. So, what was one of the scariest parts of leaving safe corporate success to chase your own
vision to take no chase this dream? You know, it's always a risk, right? So, you can stay in the
(10:43):
corporate world and risk somebody else deciding your future. Or you can go out on your own and bet
on yourself and risk, you know, everything that comes with being an entrepreneur. But I felt so
strongly about what I was doing and the products that we were putting out into the market that I
(11:06):
knew from even just my own past experience working in the beauty industry. You know, here we were
cleaning up every product and formula, you know, that we could and all of us working in beauty at
that time in New York City were getting our nails done with, you know, probably like hard gels and
acrylics and all these products that really damaged the nails and knowing how I felt and knowing
(11:34):
what it felt like to be in that vicious cycle of, you know, you get the gel nails on and they look
great and then they destroy your nails. So you get them taken off and you vow that you're never
going to put them on again and then you have an event coming up and you get the nails put on
again and so you live in this vicious cycle and I was doing it too and my nails were absolutely
destroyed. So I knew that there were lots of women just like me, you know, who really wanted to stop
(12:02):
the cycle of damaging their nails and wanted to find solutions that got their nails healthy again
and so it's been super exciting to be part of this journey, to be kind of pioneering this new category
in the nail space and helping a lot of people have better nails. Awesome, awesome.
(12:27):
So tell us about a desi in New York. What makes it different in the beauty world?
So a desi in New York is a brand that is primarily nail care. So
one in three women worldwide. This is a global data point. One in three women worldwide have
(12:52):
brittle nails. So when you have brittle nails, your nails actually start to peel back.
Nails are made of about 110 layers of keratin protein. So when the layers start to peel back,
then they become very thin. And then you get all the other nail problems, splitting, breaking,
(13:14):
sidesplits, difficulty growing, discoloration. And what we wanted to do was treat the root cause.
So get people's nails really healthy again using plant-based high-performance skin care ingredients
because we feel that nails are composed of keratin protein just like our skin and hair. So
(13:36):
treating nails like skin makes sense. So that's the key differentiator about a desi.
Our products are formulated to really fix people's nails. And then our color polish is made with
the same color pigments that are used in color cosmetics. So I always try to explain this like
(14:02):
if you see the paint on a really high-end sports car, you know, and you look into the paint and
it's just like layers of this brilliant saturated color. Those are really small nano particle
pigments and they're very high quality, same with color cosmetics. So those are the same color
pigments we use in our color polish. As opposed to other nail brands that use large particle pigments,
(14:29):
which are very flat looking. So that's another differentiator. We also infuse all of our nail
polish with a blend of shade, argon oil and bamboo extract. So when our customers are wearing
our polish, their nails are still getting a bit of a treatment. So why was it important
(14:51):
for you that your polish were clean, vegan and cruelty-free?
It's important because what we put on our nails goes into our bloodstream. So, you know, if we're
if we're conscientious about eating clean and using clean skin care and clean cosmetics, then
(15:13):
putting toxic ingredients on our nails is really incongruent to everything else we're doing.
And we said, you know, there's really absolutely no reason why customers have to use these bad
ingredients on their nails. Like, we can give them a cleaner, better alternative. So, that's why we did it.
Awesome. So, how did the QVC opportunity come about and what did it mean for you?
(15:42):
Oh, God. QVC. Well, QVC was a lifelong dream for me. QVC launched
when I was still in college. And it was very exciting to see this new way of shopping.
And so, you know, it kind of grew up with QVC. And when we got the opportunity to launch the brand
(16:07):
on QVC, it was just so exciting. So, fun fact about QVC, 20,000 brands apply every year to be on QVC.
And they select 400 brands. And so, in 2017, they selected our brand. So, we literally, you know,
(16:28):
got the call on the Tuesday about the meeting with the buyers on Thursday. So, we had to fly
from Arizona to Westchester, had the meeting, and got the chance to launch on QVC. And QVC,
at the time, was going through a lot of changes. They had acquired HSN. They dropped BDIQ, which
(16:50):
was the online shopping channel. So, we ended up launching on main channels. So, the requirements to go
on QVC main channel are very different. We had to go through a couple of years of third-party testing,
all kinds of tests, RAPT testing, freeze-thaw testing, drop testing, you know, just to make sure that
(17:13):
the products met all the safety requirements of QVC. So, when we finally got our launch date,
which was March 17th of 2020, we flew to Westchester, went into the studio for my rehearsal show,
(17:34):
and COVID happened. So, they closed the studio and they sent all of us home. And to say it was
devastating is like the understatement of the year. I mean, I was, it was like, how is this even possible
that we worked so hard for, you know, two years doing all this work and spending a ton of money
(18:00):
to then have the show canceled. So, you know, it was what it was, COVID, you know, everybody was
trying to figure out what COVID was all about. So, we went back to Arizona and then we launched 10
days later. And we launched, um, KBC did an amazing job, you know, kind of changing and pivoting
to call-in shows. So, we were calling in, we were skyping in, we had to build a set in our living room.
(18:28):
So, but it was, it was great for us because we launched with a nail kit that was designed to help people
get their nails back in healthy condition. And because of COVID and nail salons being closed,
everybody, you know, had their gel nails on and they were peeling them off at home, which is
(18:50):
really dangerous. Please don't do that. If you're out there and you're listening to this, do not
peel your gel nails off because it peels off the keratin layers. So the kit that we launched,
you know, helped everybody get their nails fixed. So it was not the opportunity we expected,
but, you know, like I said earlier, you know, when you sent me the questions, we had to pivot.
(19:15):
You know, we just, we just had to figure out how to still go forward and do the show and do it in
a different way that we never expected, but it worked and, you know, it was successful.
It was a lot of fun too. So what was it like with that living room studio experience,
and what did it teach about entrepreneurship? It taught me not to take my wardrobe too seriously.
(19:44):
I had spent, you know, like ridiculous amounts of money on clothing to go on air,
and I was standing in my living room, you know, waiting to go on and literally dressed in like
yoga pants and a t-shirt. And it was like, well, you know, like you planned this great thing,
(20:08):
you know, and you just, you think it's going to happen one way, and then it completely turns
on its side and you have to figure out how to do it anyway. And it's, you know, it's kind of been
a metaphor for this business. My company has been in business, you know, we just passed 10 years
(20:29):
in March. And we've really had to pivot also in terms of, you know, what we're putting out into the
market, ingredients that we're using or not using packaging, all those kinds of considerations. So,
you know, I think as a small indie company, we're able to do that because we're so agile and
nimble and we can move really quickly. So that's definitely, I think, an advantage for, for
(20:55):
Annie entrepreneur. Absolutely. And so in the beauty industry dominated by billion dollar players,
how do you carve your own lane? Like, how is it that you're able to go do this? Like, it's
amazing. It's a great question. You know, it's so many things. It's being small, being agile,
(21:22):
being able to pivot, being able to use technology like AI to develop products that in a larger
company might take years to develop, whereas we can use tools like AI to very quickly develop
product concepts and show them to buyers and bring them to market much more quickly because we're
(21:46):
so much smaller and so much more agile. So I think that's definitely one of the advantages of being
small. Also, you know, just really to have a sense of what consumers are looking for, you know,
(22:07):
we're very in touch with what our consumers want and we know what kinds of products they're looking
for and so we develop products based on what she's looking for, not what we feel like is
a good product for the company. So I think that gives us a distinct advantage. We're very
(22:28):
consumer focused. Being a small company, the question I wouldn't look at is like you, you
won't be seeing anything but being a smaller company because now there's a lot of apps like what,
not and stuff like that where you're direct selling and all this now as well. How do you think
(22:49):
platforms like that could benefit a small business like yours if you would have a consider
doing something like direct selling? Well, I think it really levels the playing field for small
indie brands because we can sell anywhere. We can sell on Amazon Live. We can sell on Walmart
(23:12):
Marketplace. We can sell on our own our own website. Before what the BD industry, the brands that
became successful in the BD industry, you know, 20 years ago, were the brands that got into major
department stores. So, you know, getting into a retailer like Neiman Marcus is the dream come true
(23:35):
of every BD brand owner. But the whole retail environment has changed so much and I think largely
due to COVID because people got so used to shopping online that now that playing field is so much
more level. So, we as a small brand have the same opportunity as really large global brands to,
(23:59):
you know, sell on platforms, we're work controlling the output and we don't need permission
you know to go on to Amazon and sell on Amazon Live, we can just do it. So the barriers to entry
for BD brands have really become much lower over the past 20 years.
(24:22):
Yeah, and even within the last five years of COVID and the evolution of
online selling and people who feel much more comfortable with ordering online and stuff like
so yeah, it's a big transformation. It's definitely is leveling the field for small brands,
giving you more of an opportunity and more access to people. Just like you said before,
(24:46):
you had to want to hopefully make these on the market so one of these big department stores
picks you up and that's what your goal was but now with this
and it is and having access globally because even with my I didn't like when I first started
my podcast I didn't have no idea that I would be interviewing people from all over the world.
(25:09):
I've been the people from Australia, China, Japan, India. So now with the way it is
more brands not to risk that global market with everything is.
Yeah, I feel like Tom Friedman should write another version of the world as flat because
(25:36):
or maybe we should do it. Because it is. It's so true. Like you said, you're talking to people
from all over the world. Same with us, we can sell into markets now that we never would have
been able to sell into. So yeah, and I think it really goes back to the sense of being an entrepreneur
(26:00):
who can pivot and see opportunities or create opportunities that we can leverage
in everything that we're doing, from what I'm doing in beauty to what you're doing with podcasts.
Yeah. So what's next for this New York? New products, new markets?
(26:23):
Yes. And yes. So not ready to fully disclose. But yeah, we're working on some really exciting new
product innovations and some new market launches. So maybe we'll have to do another show when that
happens and we can talk about those things. Absolutely. Definitely. So how do you define success now
(26:49):
compared to when you first started? That's a great question. You know, if you asked me this question
10 years ago, success would have the only definition of success would have been, you know, getting into
a retailer. Which of course, we still would love to do. But one of the things that we've really
(27:14):
learned and focused on is that our success, our real success comes from serving the customers that
buy from our website, that buy from Amazon, that call me up and say, you know, hey, are you guys
going to do, you know, a cuticle treatment with lavender? Because we really love something like that.
(27:38):
So serving those customers really has become the focal point of our success and direct consumer and
then, you know, when our customers are out there talking about our brand and then their friends
are getting excited about us, that really has become the real definition of success for us.
(28:01):
Yeah, and it's amazing because even, again, what I'm doing, you think that you need
these millions and millions of supporters. When all I try, you just need that loyal face,
that, that, that, because they will help you grow, today will spread, they will talk some,
it was just the same way people criticize, when people love a product, they will go out and
(28:27):
and tell their friends, hey, listen, this is a wonderful product, like,
so words of mouth is very important. So being able to build that community and grow with that audience,
because eventually they will be spreading the word and everything will take off. So yeah,
it's amazing how, when you first started, you look at all the, like you said, being in the big
(28:51):
department, but when you realize that you're serving others and you're doing something that's helping
people take care of their nails, they're not poisoning themselves with the products that we're
out there before. So when you're doing this kind of service, helping people out, it's so much more,
it's so much more, how do you say, fulfilling to be able to see that, oh man, I'm making an impact,
(29:21):
maybe not the way you know it when news going to be, but you're making an impact that
enough where you have people reaching out to you and they feel comfortable enough that they can
reach out to you and behave like with a lavender or whatever it is. So it's amazing that how
things just shifted. It is, you know, to your question earlier, I'm just like I'm still thinking
(29:48):
about that question and success, what it means to us. I have a customer who is in her 80s and
she calls me personally on my cell phone and tells me that she's a cancer survivor, a breast cancer
(30:10):
survivor and she's going to Paris and she's able to wear nail polish because our polish is so clean
and she hasn't been able to wear nail polish for years while she was going through treatments
and now she's going to Paris and she's wearing red nail polish and she's so happy and thank you
(30:33):
for making this for me and it's like that's amazing you know like like that's such a win for us
it's it's every bit a win for us you know as when we get you know an order from one of our beauty
subscription companies like like Birchbox you know for half a million units so it's it's great it's
(30:54):
you know it's I'm sure what you do is exactly the same in that you know you're you're touching a
lot of people and every day is different right you never know what's gonna happen that day and I
think that's exciting I think that as an entrepreneur you know that's what we really you know that's
what really feels last and we get really excited about yeah yeah it's absolutely correct that's
(31:20):
right but when when I get that one message from someone that'd be like man that episode that you
recorded with search and when they go into details and be like I learned so much it's those moments
that that just fills me up those those are those are the moments that I'm like man that I'm impacting
someone's life I'm touching someone they're they're listening to what what we're putting out and
(31:42):
and I was able to impact their life by creating the content by having the interview by having
my wonderful guest come on and and tell their stories and because there's somebody out there that
might be on the fence about starting a business to hear your story about how you didn't have
any money but you know what I'm gonna take this risk someone might be out there on that same
(32:06):
boat thinking like should I do it should I take this lead yeah your story and go like you know
what I'm gonna take that lead yeah you never know how what what we're doing as entrepreneurs um
how it resonates with somebody who's out there listening or watching or you know trying
(32:27):
product and you know thinking about doing something and um you know conversations like this might
just help them get over that last you know that last hurdle and and you know bet on themselves
and go do it so yeah so what what advice do you get to entrepreneurs who feel like they don't have
(32:49):
enough resources? Um that's that is a great question really it's it's a great question um
and and I learned this Tony Robbins that um it is not about resources you know it's it's
it's because I've been on both sides of the syn the media industry you know the big
(33:14):
brands that have tons of money and you know my brand that had no money starting out and it really
comes down to you being resourceful so you know believing in something so much and and knowing that
if you don't do it you're doing a disservice to your future customers so you you find a way you
(33:37):
you you get resourceful you know just you figure it out and that philosophy has really served me
not just in the very early stages you know when I walked into a contract manufacture and said here's
my concept and you guys are going to help me build it but you know even even today you know just
(34:00):
just being resourceful figuring out you know who I know who can who can help you know what we have
what we can do and and being resourceful in terms of figuring out how to make your dream happen
absolutely what do you think the future of clean beauty looks like?
(34:22):
um I think that um the future of clean beauty will continue to be focused on clean ingredients
um no animal testing vegan ingredients um sustainable manufacturing um and um really also just taking
(34:49):
cues from what consumers are looking for um consumers have become so much more savvy in the past
few years about clean beauty but um clean beauty also really has to elevate itself with
you know products and formulas and ingredients that that really are clean um and no green washing
(35:13):
you know not saying you're clean but really not being clean or saying that you
manufacture sustainably but you're putting a lot of waste product into you know into the environment
so um I think clean beauty's future is going to be driven by consumer savviness and consumer
demand and holding brands accountable awesome yeah so what what legacy do you want to leave
(35:42):
in the beauty industry and beyond I would like to leave a legacy of being someone who pioneered
cleanness in the nail space and who gave a lot of customers a lot of women and men too
the gift of having beautiful nails you know because when you have when your nails look good
(36:07):
it's kind of like you know we we think about our face we think about our hair
and a lot of people are so embarrassed by their hands and their nails they put them behind
their back and in their pockets and I want to be someone who people point to and say
she gave me good nails and now I hold them out in front of me very proudly
(36:33):
all right if your journey could be summed up in one mantra what would it be
one mantra um persistence persistence because you know you can have all the education
and talent and money and resources um to go do something but without real persistence you know
(37:05):
the the early morning is the late nights the the giving up things that you know you'd rather be
doing like going out with your friends um to to sacrifice building your business that's really
the key and and consistency you know because we see you know I'm on your show um talking about
(37:26):
successes that we've had but you know it would be very boring you know if if you put a camera in my
office and and watched my day-to-day operations because it's very unglamorous you know we love to
talk about the highlight reel right but we don't really talk about the consistent every day you know
(37:50):
you get into your office at a certain time sit down at your desk you have a routine you get things done
you know but that consistency just builds on itself and sometimes it's hard to keep that going um
and to keep it going when you're not having wins you know it's easy to do all that when you're
getting you know big orders and you're having success but those sort of dry times when you're just
(38:15):
you're just working through it and you have to believe that what you're doing is going to pay off
and keep your dream going and not get distracted or discouraged because you know you as an entrepreneur
(38:36):
and you know this I mean you can go for a long periods of time with absolutely no wins and no
successes and it's just you and your business and you're sitting there sometimes thinking
why am I doing this you know and then and then something great happens so I think you know I
think that's the mantra awesome but we've come to the part of the show where you're going to get
(39:02):
the solo screen and you get to plug away let them know where to find your website and your social
media any people in your share okay great so you guys you can find us at online at desa ny.com
we're also on amazon and on social media at desa ny.
(39:24):
thank you so much for being a guest but don't leave that let me close out the show we'll
try a little bit off the air but thank you so much for being a wonderful guest I appreciate your
time send my love to the husband thank you for right now this is so much fun it's great to talk to you
I appreciate you being on the show thank you very much thank you all right like I said don't
(39:48):
leave just shut okay all right everybody another great show's in the books
it's a story little sparking you go check out a desi new york and see what clean vegan cruelty free
beauty looks like at the highest level and if you're sitting on the dream you think it's impossible
remember this not having resources makes you resourceful share this episode with a friend who
(40:13):
who needs nevermind today stay bold stay resourceful stay wise not your boy wise does it peace out
And welcome to another episode of stuck in my mind podcast.
I am your host, WICE.
And today's guest went from working with some of the most iconic brands in beauty,
as they loud on Avon Revlon, to building her own Duxury Clean Beauty Company, a desi
New York.
Suzanne Robberter-Marthons is proof that you don't need millions to start a beauty brand,
(01:04):
just create, vision, and relentless persistence.
From launching on QVC during the pandemic to carving out space in an industry dominated
by giants, Suzanne's story is all about resilience, resourcefulness, and staying true to your
dream.
And this welcome to stuck in my mind podcast, Suzanne Robberter-Marthons.
(01:28):
I'm Freda, it's so nice to be here.
Thanks for being on the show.
Thanks for helping me.
So, so for you people out there, me and Suzanne know each other outside of the pocket because
I mean her husband are co-workers, so I'm excited to have her on the show, but let's
jump right into this.
(01:49):
So, Suzanne, you said you dreamed of owning your own cosmetic company since college.
What sparked that dream?
So, after graduating from college, I had the great fortune to go to work in the BD industry
and it was in New York City and it was at the time when the very early stage of the BD
(02:10):
industry changing so that companies like the ones you mentioned, the ones I worked with,
with Estee Lauder, Revlon, Avon were all starting to clean up their formulas.
So, removing any toxic or harmful ingredients and replacing those ingredients with cleaner,
healthier ingredients.
So, I had a great opportunity to learn from the best in the industry, working with Estee
(02:45):
Lauder, and the best way of doing it.
And of course, just being a lover of the beauty industry and beauty products, I always dreamed
of having my own cosmetic company one day.
What did you learn from working with the powerhouse brands?
Oh, gosh, that's such a great question.
(03:08):
I learned everything.
I learned how to bring a product from concept to production to market launch.
I learned branding.
I learned product positioning.
I learned formulation.
I learned how to reverse engineer formulas to, like I said earlier, remove toxic ingredients
(03:32):
and replace them with clean ingredients.
I learned my specialty was in skincare and color cosmetic product development.
So, from that opportunity, I learned how to create and build products.
I also learned how in really large companies that the life cycle of product development
(03:56):
is very long.
I say product development that encompasses everything from the initial idea through market launch.
So, with a desa being a smaller indie brand, indie meaning independently owned,
we are very agile and we move very quickly.
(04:17):
And we do product development now using AI technology that really helps us speed
product to market much faster than back when I started in the industry.
Oh yeah, and me personally, I use AI as well to help me with the show.
And I use it as what it's intended for, as the tool to help me grow my podcast, grow whatever
(04:40):
business that I'm doing. So I can imagine how beneficial it's been, especially with time.
It's something that's very important that using AI has cut time for me and a lot of the things
that I'm doing as far as podcasting, book publishing, everything else.
Yeah, for us too. I mean, the way we used to do product development was to, you know, a lot of
(05:08):
a lot of new product innovation comes from the ingredient story. So finding a great ingredient
and then building a product or product line or a collection around that ingredient. But
and so, you know, a lot of development time, a lot of R&D time and resources. And now the way we
(05:30):
do product development using AI as a tool is to aggregate consumer data that we get from our
customers, which tells us what they're buying, what they like, how consumers are using AI to search
building products, you know, backwards from the consumer demand data. And we can use AI modeling to
(05:57):
create products and test them with consumers and buyers before we go into either full production or
even pilot production or lab production. So, you know, if we create a product based on
consumers looking for, I'll just give you an example. Let's say consumers are really excited
(06:20):
about Hibiscus as an ingredient in skincare. And we know this because the consumer data shows us
that consumers are searching for products with Hibiscus, they're purchasing products with Hibiscus,
and then we can break that data down and we can see what they're buying, why they're buying it,
what they like about it, what they want it to do, and from that data, really develop products
(06:46):
that speak directly to the consumer desire. So it's a really exciting time to be in beauty. I feel like
my company is a technology company operating in the beauty space. That's awesome.
But many people feel intimidated to start because they don't have funding. How did you launch a
New York with almost no money? Sure ignorance. Honestly, if I thought about the fact that I had no money,
(07:14):
I wouldn't have done it. But working in the beauty industry and then working as a consultant
have helping other brands, develop brands, export into international markets. I had gotten to a
point where I just felt like this is the time to build my own company and my own brand. And so,
(07:39):
I developed the concept. I looked across the whole beauty industry landscape and every category
in beauty was being cleaned up. So clean hair care, clean skin care, color, cosmetic, body care,
even fragrance. But the nail category was still using very toxic dirty ingredients like formaldehyde,
(08:00):
toweline, trickle of sand, all these bad ingredients were going on people's nails and nails are
porous, right? So when you put something on your nails, it eventually seeps into the bloodstream.
So we said, let's create a clean nail brand that uses clean plant-based skin care ingredients
(08:21):
that really help treat the root of the nail problem. So that customers can use products that help
their nails get healthy and don't have to deal with all the problems that typically happen with
with people's nails. So we went to a contract manufacturer and we laid out the concept and we
(08:42):
said here's what we want to do. We want you to develop it with us. We have no money and we want
you to run small productions so we have production samples that we can then take out to show to buyers.
And they like the concept. So we got really lucky and we went forward and it took us about
(09:05):
a year and a half, almost two years to develop all the formulas. And a desi is so different because
we didn't come from the nail space. So we developed the products like skincare for nails. We
developed the nail polish like color cosmetics using the same kind of pigments and ingredients
that are used in skincare and color polish respectively. So, you know, we did really well. We
(09:34):
launched the brand in March of 2015 on our website in Amazon. And then we started to partner with
some of the US largest beauty subscription companies like Ipsi, Birchbox, FabFitFun. And
(09:55):
you know, huge numbers of their customers and influencers in the beauty space. And they really
loved the brand. They loved the product. So, you know, we scaled very quickly from initially 7,000
bottles to now over 35,000, 35 million bottles sold. And, you know, it's been exciting to
(10:18):
be able to bring a nail care brand into the market that actually helps customers improve their
nails. So, what was one of the scariest parts of leaving safe corporate success to chase your own
vision to take no chase this dream? You know, it's always a risk, right? So, you can stay in the
(10:43):
corporate world and risk somebody else deciding your future. Or you can go out on your own and bet
on yourself and risk, you know, everything that comes with being an entrepreneur. But I felt so
strongly about what I was doing and the products that we were putting out into the market that I
(11:06):
knew from even just my own past experience working in the beauty industry. You know, here we were
cleaning up every product and formula, you know, that we could and all of us working in beauty at
that time in New York City were getting our nails done with, you know, probably like hard gels and
acrylics and all these products that really damaged the nails and knowing how I felt and knowing
(11:34):
what it felt like to be in that vicious cycle of, you know, you get the gel nails on and they look
great and then they destroy your nails. So you get them taken off and you vow that you're never
going to put them on again and then you have an event coming up and you get the nails put on
again and so you live in this vicious cycle and I was doing it too and my nails were absolutely
destroyed. So I knew that there were lots of women just like me, you know, who really wanted to stop
(12:02):
the cycle of damaging their nails and wanted to find solutions that got their nails healthy again
and so it's been super exciting to be part of this journey, to be kind of pioneering this new category
in the nail space and helping a lot of people have better nails. Awesome, awesome.
(12:27):
So tell us about a desi in New York. What makes it different in the beauty world?
So a desi in New York is a brand that is primarily nail care. So
one in three women worldwide. This is a global data point. One in three women worldwide have
(12:52):
brittle nails. So when you have brittle nails, your nails actually start to peel back.
Nails are made of about 110 layers of keratin protein. So when the layers start to peel back,
then they become very thin. And then you get all the other nail problems, splitting, breaking,
(13:14):
sidesplits, difficulty growing, discoloration. And what we wanted to do was treat the root cause.
So get people's nails really healthy again using plant-based high-performance skin care ingredients
because we feel that nails are composed of keratin protein just like our skin and hair. So
(13:36):
treating nails like skin makes sense. So that's the key differentiator about a desi.
Our products are formulated to really fix people's nails. And then our color polish is made with
the same color pigments that are used in color cosmetics. So I always try to explain this like
(14:02):
if you see the paint on a really high-end sports car, you know, and you look into the paint and
it's just like layers of this brilliant saturated color. Those are really small nano particle
pigments and they're very high quality, same with color cosmetics. So those are the same color
pigments we use in our color polish. As opposed to other nail brands that use large particle pigments,
(14:29):
which are very flat looking. So that's another differentiator. We also infuse all of our nail
polish with a blend of shade, argon oil and bamboo extract. So when our customers are wearing
our polish, their nails are still getting a bit of a treatment. So why was it important
(14:51):
for you that your polish were clean, vegan and cruelty-free?
It's important because what we put on our nails goes into our bloodstream. So, you know, if we're
if we're conscientious about eating clean and using clean skin care and clean cosmetics, then
(15:13):
putting toxic ingredients on our nails is really incongruent to everything else we're doing.
And we said, you know, there's really absolutely no reason why customers have to use these bad
ingredients on their nails. Like, we can give them a cleaner, better alternative. So, that's why we did it.
Awesome. So, how did the QVC opportunity come about and what did it mean for you?
(15:42):
Oh, God. QVC. Well, QVC was a lifelong dream for me. QVC launched
when I was still in college. And it was very exciting to see this new way of shopping.
And so, you know, it kind of grew up with QVC. And when we got the opportunity to launch the brand
(16:07):
on QVC, it was just so exciting. So, fun fact about QVC, 20,000 brands apply every year to be on QVC.
And they select 400 brands. And so, in 2017, they selected our brand. So, we literally, you know,
(16:28):
got the call on the Tuesday about the meeting with the buyers on Thursday. So, we had to fly
from Arizona to Westchester, had the meeting, and got the chance to launch on QVC. And QVC,
at the time, was going through a lot of changes. They had acquired HSN. They dropped BDIQ, which
(16:50):
was the online shopping channel. So, we ended up launching on main channels. So, the requirements to go
on QVC main channel are very different. We had to go through a couple of years of third-party testing,
all kinds of tests, RAPT testing, freeze-thaw testing, drop testing, you know, just to make sure that
(17:13):
the products met all the safety requirements of QVC. So, when we finally got our launch date,
which was March 17th of 2020, we flew to Westchester, went into the studio for my rehearsal show,
(17:34):
and COVID happened. So, they closed the studio and they sent all of us home. And to say it was
devastating is like the understatement of the year. I mean, I was, it was like, how is this even possible
that we worked so hard for, you know, two years doing all this work and spending a ton of money
(18:00):
to then have the show canceled. So, you know, it was what it was, COVID, you know, everybody was
trying to figure out what COVID was all about. So, we went back to Arizona and then we launched 10
days later. And we launched, um, KBC did an amazing job, you know, kind of changing and pivoting
to call-in shows. So, we were calling in, we were skyping in, we had to build a set in our living room.
(18:28):
So, but it was, it was great for us because we launched with a nail kit that was designed to help people
get their nails back in healthy condition. And because of COVID and nail salons being closed,
everybody, you know, had their gel nails on and they were peeling them off at home, which is
(18:50):
really dangerous. Please don't do that. If you're out there and you're listening to this, do not
peel your gel nails off because it peels off the keratin layers. So the kit that we launched,
you know, helped everybody get their nails fixed. So it was not the opportunity we expected,
but, you know, like I said earlier, you know, when you sent me the questions, we had to pivot.
(19:15):
You know, we just, we just had to figure out how to still go forward and do the show and do it in
a different way that we never expected, but it worked and, you know, it was successful.
It was a lot of fun too. So what was it like with that living room studio experience,
and what did it teach about entrepreneurship? It taught me not to take my wardrobe too seriously.
(19:44):
I had spent, you know, like ridiculous amounts of money on clothing to go on air,
and I was standing in my living room, you know, waiting to go on and literally dressed in like
yoga pants and a t-shirt. And it was like, well, you know, like you planned this great thing,
(20:08):
you know, and you just, you think it's going to happen one way, and then it completely turns
on its side and you have to figure out how to do it anyway. And it's, you know, it's kind of been
a metaphor for this business. My company has been in business, you know, we just passed 10 years
(20:29):
in March. And we've really had to pivot also in terms of, you know, what we're putting out into the
market, ingredients that we're using or not using packaging, all those kinds of considerations. So,
you know, I think as a small indie company, we're able to do that because we're so agile and
nimble and we can move really quickly. So that's definitely, I think, an advantage for, for
(20:55):
Annie entrepreneur. Absolutely. And so in the beauty industry dominated by billion dollar players,
how do you carve your own lane? Like, how is it that you're able to go do this? Like, it's
amazing. It's a great question. You know, it's so many things. It's being small, being agile,
(21:22):
being able to pivot, being able to use technology like AI to develop products that in a larger
company might take years to develop, whereas we can use tools like AI to very quickly develop
product concepts and show them to buyers and bring them to market much more quickly because we're
(21:46):
so much smaller and so much more agile. So I think that's definitely one of the advantages of being
small. Also, you know, just really to have a sense of what consumers are looking for, you know,
(22:07):
we're very in touch with what our consumers want and we know what kinds of products they're looking
for and so we develop products based on what she's looking for, not what we feel like is
a good product for the company. So I think that gives us a distinct advantage. We're very
(22:28):
consumer focused. Being a small company, the question I wouldn't look at is like you, you
won't be seeing anything but being a smaller company because now there's a lot of apps like what,
not and stuff like that where you're direct selling and all this now as well. How do you think
(22:49):
platforms like that could benefit a small business like yours if you would have a consider
doing something like direct selling? Well, I think it really levels the playing field for small
indie brands because we can sell anywhere. We can sell on Amazon Live. We can sell on Walmart
(23:12):
Marketplace. We can sell on our own our own website. Before what the BD industry, the brands that
became successful in the BD industry, you know, 20 years ago, were the brands that got into major
department stores. So, you know, getting into a retailer like Neiman Marcus is the dream come true
(23:35):
of every BD brand owner. But the whole retail environment has changed so much and I think largely
due to COVID because people got so used to shopping online that now that playing field is so much
more level. So, we as a small brand have the same opportunity as really large global brands to,
(23:59):
you know, sell on platforms, we're work controlling the output and we don't need permission
you know to go on to Amazon and sell on Amazon Live, we can just do it. So the barriers to entry
for BD brands have really become much lower over the past 20 years.
(24:22):
Yeah, and even within the last five years of COVID and the evolution of
online selling and people who feel much more comfortable with ordering online and stuff like
so yeah, it's a big transformation. It's definitely is leveling the field for small brands,
giving you more of an opportunity and more access to people. Just like you said before,
(24:46):
you had to want to hopefully make these on the market so one of these big department stores
picks you up and that's what your goal was but now with this
and it is and having access globally because even with my I didn't like when I first started
my podcast I didn't have no idea that I would be interviewing people from all over the world.
(25:09):
I've been the people from Australia, China, Japan, India. So now with the way it is
more brands not to risk that global market with everything is.
Yeah, I feel like Tom Friedman should write another version of the world as flat because
(25:36):
or maybe we should do it. Because it is. It's so true. Like you said, you're talking to people
from all over the world. Same with us, we can sell into markets now that we never would have
been able to sell into. So yeah, and I think it really goes back to the sense of being an entrepreneur
(26:00):
who can pivot and see opportunities or create opportunities that we can leverage
in everything that we're doing, from what I'm doing in beauty to what you're doing with podcasts.
Yeah. So what's next for this New York? New products, new markets?
(26:23):
Yes. And yes. So not ready to fully disclose. But yeah, we're working on some really exciting new
product innovations and some new market launches. So maybe we'll have to do another show when that
happens and we can talk about those things. Absolutely. Definitely. So how do you define success now
(26:49):
compared to when you first started? That's a great question. You know, if you asked me this question
10 years ago, success would have the only definition of success would have been, you know, getting into
a retailer. Which of course, we still would love to do. But one of the things that we've really
(27:14):
learned and focused on is that our success, our real success comes from serving the customers that
buy from our website, that buy from Amazon, that call me up and say, you know, hey, are you guys
going to do, you know, a cuticle treatment with lavender? Because we really love something like that.
(27:38):
So serving those customers really has become the focal point of our success and direct consumer and
then, you know, when our customers are out there talking about our brand and then their friends
are getting excited about us, that really has become the real definition of success for us.
(28:01):
Yeah, and it's amazing because even, again, what I'm doing, you think that you need
these millions and millions of supporters. When all I try, you just need that loyal face,
that, that, that, because they will help you grow, today will spread, they will talk some,
it was just the same way people criticize, when people love a product, they will go out and
(28:27):
and tell their friends, hey, listen, this is a wonderful product, like,
so words of mouth is very important. So being able to build that community and grow with that audience,
because eventually they will be spreading the word and everything will take off. So yeah,
it's amazing how, when you first started, you look at all the, like you said, being in the big
(28:51):
department, but when you realize that you're serving others and you're doing something that's helping
people take care of their nails, they're not poisoning themselves with the products that we're
out there before. So when you're doing this kind of service, helping people out, it's so much more,
it's so much more, how do you say, fulfilling to be able to see that, oh man, I'm making an impact,
(29:21):
maybe not the way you know it when news going to be, but you're making an impact that
enough where you have people reaching out to you and they feel comfortable enough that they can
reach out to you and behave like with a lavender or whatever it is. So it's amazing that how
things just shifted. It is, you know, to your question earlier, I'm just like I'm still thinking
(29:48):
about that question and success, what it means to us. I have a customer who is in her 80s and
she calls me personally on my cell phone and tells me that she's a cancer survivor, a breast cancer
(30:10):
survivor and she's going to Paris and she's able to wear nail polish because our polish is so clean
and she hasn't been able to wear nail polish for years while she was going through treatments
and now she's going to Paris and she's wearing red nail polish and she's so happy and thank you
(30:33):
for making this for me and it's like that's amazing you know like like that's such a win for us
it's it's every bit a win for us you know as when we get you know an order from one of our beauty
subscription companies like like Birchbox you know for half a million units so it's it's great it's
(30:54):
you know it's I'm sure what you do is exactly the same in that you know you're you're touching a
lot of people and every day is different right you never know what's gonna happen that day and I
think that's exciting I think that as an entrepreneur you know that's what we really you know that's
what really feels last and we get really excited about yeah yeah it's absolutely correct that's
(31:20):
right but when when I get that one message from someone that'd be like man that episode that you
recorded with search and when they go into details and be like I learned so much it's those moments
that that just fills me up those those are those are the moments that I'm like man that I'm impacting
someone's life I'm touching someone they're they're listening to what what we're putting out and
(31:42):
and I was able to impact their life by creating the content by having the interview by having
my wonderful guest come on and and tell their stories and because there's somebody out there that
might be on the fence about starting a business to hear your story about how you didn't have
any money but you know what I'm gonna take this risk someone might be out there on that same
(32:06):
boat thinking like should I do it should I take this lead yeah your story and go like you know
what I'm gonna take that lead yeah you never know how what what we're doing as entrepreneurs um
how it resonates with somebody who's out there listening or watching or you know trying
(32:27):
product and you know thinking about doing something and um you know conversations like this might
just help them get over that last you know that last hurdle and and you know bet on themselves
and go do it so yeah so what what advice do you get to entrepreneurs who feel like they don't have
(32:49):
enough resources? Um that's that is a great question really it's it's a great question um
and and I learned this Tony Robbins that um it is not about resources you know it's it's
it's because I've been on both sides of the syn the media industry you know the big
(33:14):
brands that have tons of money and you know my brand that had no money starting out and it really
comes down to you being resourceful so you know believing in something so much and and knowing that
if you don't do it you're doing a disservice to your future customers so you you find a way you
(33:37):
you you get resourceful you know just you figure it out and that philosophy has really served me
not just in the very early stages you know when I walked into a contract manufacture and said here's
my concept and you guys are going to help me build it but you know even even today you know just
(34:00):
just being resourceful figuring out you know who I know who can who can help you know what we have
what we can do and and being resourceful in terms of figuring out how to make your dream happen
absolutely what do you think the future of clean beauty looks like?
(34:22):
um I think that um the future of clean beauty will continue to be focused on clean ingredients
um no animal testing vegan ingredients um sustainable manufacturing um and um really also just taking
(34:49):
cues from what consumers are looking for um consumers have become so much more savvy in the past
few years about clean beauty but um clean beauty also really has to elevate itself with
you know products and formulas and ingredients that that really are clean um and no green washing
(35:13):
you know not saying you're clean but really not being clean or saying that you
manufacture sustainably but you're putting a lot of waste product into you know into the environment
so um I think clean beauty's future is going to be driven by consumer savviness and consumer
demand and holding brands accountable awesome yeah so what what legacy do you want to leave
(35:42):
in the beauty industry and beyond I would like to leave a legacy of being someone who pioneered
cleanness in the nail space and who gave a lot of customers a lot of women and men too
the gift of having beautiful nails you know because when you have when your nails look good
(36:07):
it's kind of like you know we we think about our face we think about our hair
and a lot of people are so embarrassed by their hands and their nails they put them behind
their back and in their pockets and I want to be someone who people point to and say
she gave me good nails and now I hold them out in front of me very proudly
(36:33):
all right if your journey could be summed up in one mantra what would it be
one mantra um persistence persistence because you know you can have all the education
and talent and money and resources um to go do something but without real persistence you know
(37:05):
the the early morning is the late nights the the giving up things that you know you'd rather be
doing like going out with your friends um to to sacrifice building your business that's really
the key and and consistency you know because we see you know I'm on your show um talking about
(37:26):
successes that we've had but you know it would be very boring you know if if you put a camera in my
office and and watched my day-to-day operations because it's very unglamorous you know we love to
talk about the highlight reel right but we don't really talk about the consistent every day you know
(37:50):
you get into your office at a certain time sit down at your desk you have a routine you get things done
you know but that consistency just builds on itself and sometimes it's hard to keep that going um
and to keep it going when you're not having wins you know it's easy to do all that when you're
getting you know big orders and you're having success but those sort of dry times when you're just
(38:15):
you're just working through it and you have to believe that what you're doing is going to pay off
and keep your dream going and not get distracted or discouraged because you know you as an entrepreneur
(38:36):
and you know this I mean you can go for a long periods of time with absolutely no wins and no
successes and it's just you and your business and you're sitting there sometimes thinking
why am I doing this you know and then and then something great happens so I think you know I
think that's the mantra awesome but we've come to the part of the show where you're going to get
(39:02):
the solo screen and you get to plug away let them know where to find your website and your social
media any people in your share okay great so you guys you can find us at online at desa ny.com
we're also on amazon and on social media at desa ny.
(39:24):
thank you so much for being a guest but don't leave that let me close out the show we'll
try a little bit off the air but thank you so much for being a wonderful guest I appreciate your
time send my love to the husband thank you for right now this is so much fun it's great to talk to you
I appreciate you being on the show thank you very much thank you all right like I said don't
(39:48):
leave just shut okay all right everybody another great show's in the books
it's a story little sparking you go check out a desi new york and see what clean vegan cruelty free
beauty looks like at the highest level and if you're sitting on the dream you think it's impossible
remember this not having resources makes you resourceful share this episode with a friend who
(40:13):
who needs nevermind today stay bold stay resourceful stay wise not your boy wise does it peace out
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