Clients, Contracts & Creative Control—Secrets to Thriving in Video Production

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vipul Bindra (00:13):
Welcome, Alex, to the podcast.
I can't.
I'm so excited to have you.
I hope the guests heard thatwhen we started live streaming
this, so I really appreciate youagain the taking the time and,
funny enough, before we even satdown on the chairs, you showed
up and we just started talkingbusiness that's what it always
happens and and you know thisI've been saying for years we

(00:35):
will need to hear theseconversations because you know
it doesn't matter.
I've been doing this 15 years asa freelancer and then last
almost six and a half of it as aproduction company and there's
still so much for me to learn,and you were helping me level up
just a few minutes ago, and Ifeel like these conversations
need to be recorded and sharedwith people so we can all help

(00:56):
each other level up kind of justyou know, be real.
Hear from real people who arein the money in the video
business, not in the courseselling business.
You know what I mean.

Alex Minor (01:05):
Um so I get it.

I don't think uh landing this all for free.
So you know, people don't haveto go spend a dollar to learn
this info.
So how have you been?
First of all, I know you were.

Alex Minor (01:14):
We were supposed to have you a couple of weeks, few
weeks back, and uh, you werestuck in a snowstorm or whatever
yeah, I went back to marylandto visit family and, like the
first time I was up there duringthe holidays in years and we
get snow, which is what my kidswere praying well, my son was
praying for um and he was likethank god, it's new because he,

(01:37):
they, you know, florida kidsthey've never seen snow before
that's crazy yeah, so they got.

I mean my kids do the same thing, you know.
They're just like I want snowand I'm like I don't know if I
want snow, but OK, so that'sgreat.
At least you know the kids werehappy and I'm so glad you made
it back and now we have a chanceto actually talk.
How was your 2024?

Alex Minor (01:59):
I mean honestly, and I'm'm gonna just be totally
transparent for people at homemy 2024 business wise was
probably the worst year I've haduh, worst year I've had
probably since 2014, which iscrazy and that's also crazy that
you've been doing this long.

What year did you start roughly?

Alex Minor (02:20):
I mean, I've been in some form of media and
entertainment all my adult life.
Where it became my main sourceof income was back in 2011.
I haven't had a job since 2010.

That's crazy to think about, was it?

Alex Minor (02:36):
2010?
It's been so long now.
But yeah, I haven't had a jobsince 2011.
April 2011 was the last time Iwalked out the doors of a
corporate job and I gotfull-time into doing video
production full-time, mainsource of income.

(02:57):
In 2020 because I had no choice, like it wasn't something that
I was planning on.
I was still in, like, thecorporate events world, mainly
that's.
What I went into in 2011 wasthe corporate events world, and
I still do some of that work.
But in 2020, when everythingshut down, corporate events went
away, I had my video productioncompany on the side and I sat

(03:20):
at home and quietly lost my mindfor about three months when the
AV industry shut down and thenI said OK.
When the last check came in themail I was like, ok, I've got to
figure something out and we gotto work.

And the rest is history.
Funny enough, I think it waslike a rematch on a Facebook
group.
So I was, I was in Orlando from2010.
And then, you know, later inthe years I kind of left for a
few years for Alabama.
That's where I started mycompany and obviously I was
trying to just climb my way backto Orlando.
I had one goal.
I was like I want to make thiscompany successful.

(03:56):
Oh, maybe two goals.
And the second was somehow getback to Orlando, and as soon as
you know, I use the pandemic asthe the way out.
Like most people, I was like,oh, I gotta leave.
So I think I remember it waslike almost like um, first end
of 2020 or whatever.
I came back and, uh, so at that,during that time I was, I
started my company in middle ofnowhere, alabama.

(04:17):
There was barely any resources.
I've talked about it on thispodcast.
One company that didn't respondback.
So I had to learn everything onmy own and the only other
resource I had was thesefacebook groups, you know, to
see what other people are doingand what they're charging, what
the deliverables look like.
I want to be because I wasnever worried about my craft.
I had done this long enough.
I was more worried about whatto charge, what the business

(04:39):
side of it was, and obviouslyyou were one of the more active
ones in that group yeah and then, as soon as I came back, uh,
and I knew you were local, I hityou up.
Do you remember anything aboutthat?

Alex Minor (04:50):
um, we met at austin's coffee and we just
chopped it up for a good.
I mean that I think we weresupposed to meet for like 30
minutes and we ended up beingthere for like two hours just
yeah you know just having a goodold time and I think I remember
hiring you also for a gig.

So gig popped up which was like green screen or
something that was our firstproject yeah uh, having never
worked together.
But, like I said, I knew yourskills, I'd seen your work.
I was like hey, alex, I would,I would really like a dp, you
know, uh.

Alex Minor (05:18):
And then that's how you introduced me to the project
come out anyway I have no idea.

Oh, okay, let me say that here's why.
And, funny enough, I was backin the day, so a lot of things
changed since then.
So that was my day when I waslike, oh, we are only a
production company, right, wehad a base raid that came with
four crew members, including me.
You know, I didn't doindividual dp work at all then.
So, anyway, they called me andI was like, oh yeah, that's our
base rate for crew members orwhatever.

(05:43):
Plus, you're going to need aproducer slash script supervisor
, because it was scripted andthey wanted us to shoot on green
screen and 20 by 20.
So I had to go rent a 20 by 20green screen.
Who has that?
I mean, most I have is, youknow, 12 by 12 or whatever.
Anyway, no, the project, youknow, I think we shot incredible
.
We shot at c log 2 you knowc70s or whatever.

(06:10):
I think that their postproduction was not the type of
money they spent on it.
No, no, so that's.
That was one of my first fewones where I was like, okay, as
long as you hire my crew.
Normally I would be like, oh,we have to do post, but that
came from an agency so withagency.
You know they do their post, soit was an agency that was hired
by the client and then I wassubbing for that agency,
essentially.
So, um, when we showed up, uh,we were never gonna do post, and

(06:35):
I was always worried, becausewhen you do green screen, I mean
sure, nowadays we have aimatting and all that, but not
not a few years ago.
I think it was at 20, beginningof 2021, yeah anyway.
So, yeah, when I looked thefirst time up you know I don't
normally care about stuff thatwe're not editing, but I wanted
to look I looked it up back,like I said, three years ago or
whatever, four years ago, and Iwas like, uh, I don't want to be

(06:56):
associated with this post wecan show those jobs.
Yeah, I was like I will show thepre one and not saying like I
don't know what budget they had,what timeline they had.
So I don't want to say anythingagainst the agency, but yeah.

Alex Minor (07:08):
Sometimes when you got to head off the footage you
don't want to, you don't wantanybody to know.
Yeah, when I looked.

I was like this is supposed to look like the
Matrix.
This does not look.
I mean, maybe the extra greenis Matrix, but no, so that was
one of those where I was like,okay, I'm never gonna show the
edited of this, it'll be theunedited of it, but but it was
incredible to hang out with you.
I think that's where I metquentin.
Yep, um, we had to fire a guyon set.
I don't know if you rememberthat julie was there.

(07:35):
I think we had a good.
Uh, you know it was a good day,yeah, people together, uh, and
very eventful, very fun.
Um, do you remember anything?
I don't know if that shoot or,in general, working with me the
first time I mean it was just agood experience.

Alex Minor (07:50):
I mean, uh, and, and it was fun to be on somebody
else's set.
Uh, I'm just so used to doingmy own thing, which I think a
lot of us are and and doingsmaller jobs that you know,
being on a bigger production, abigger production, a bigger set,
not having to be the one who'sworrying about all the details
and is like, hey, work thecamera, it's like I can do that,

(08:12):
yeah, and it was so good andthat's what I love is having
talented DP when I'm directing,because you know, like you said,
you're worrying about it somuch and, like I said, including
firing a guy, that was so crazyto me.

but the back then, you know, even a little cough
people would get uh, uh, and itwas a client's request.
There's somebody so in our teamwas it was coughing a little
bit and they confirmed to usbefore production started that
they didn't have covet oranything.
But the client was like, assoon as I heard a cough they
were like, uh, we don't feelcomfortable having that person
said and that's okay, you knowyou have to respect the client's

(08:46):
wishes.
I was like, okay, but that alsomeant my production budget, and
this is what I'm saying and Iwould love to talk later about
money more.
But like lessons learned,because I build total, like
already I built the client butnow we went over, so now I gotta
pay you guys you have to a workextra, you and quentin who have
to stay back, and that means Ihad to pay you guys extra.

(09:08):
But the production companydidn't get to pay me extra, so
they had me uh, I saidproduction, the agency, they had
me, fired the guy but we had tonot pick up his job.
So I did not only have you guysstay late and work extra, and I
lost money on all that overtime.
So, uh, maybe sometimes I'mlike ah, you know, I like the

(09:29):
one amount.
Right, hey, here's your total.
But then it can have backfirewhen circumstances like that
happen because I can't go backto the client and rebuild them,
because you know, Well, youactually can if that's in your
terms, yeah.

Alex Minor (09:43):
Because it just depends on how you set the terms
of the billing, because a lotof people, whether you give them
a flat rate, whether you givethem a day rate with the
stipulation that, hey, we charge, if we go over this amount of
time, then we're going to billyou hourly for overtime.

(10:05):
There's all sorts of differentways that you can structure the
billing so that you don't getscrewed over on that there's
even ways that you can.
Well, in that situation whereyou're having to let somebody go
because of the client's request, I wouldn't do this.
But there's also ways that youcan structure it to show extra
concern for the client andbenefit the client where it's

(10:26):
like, hey, you can structure itso that, hey, if the job doesn't
take this amount of hours, webill you less because we weren't
there as long.
I know a lot of people don'tlike that, but you can do that.
Or you can do it where, hey, ifwe got to bring on an extra
person, it's gonna be becauseyou know, what was originally
stated.
It goes beyond that scope, thenit's going to be this price.

(10:48):
There's all sorts of ways thatyou can set up your pricing
structure so that you don't getscrewed.
Yeah and then you can also havecontingencies in your contract
where it's like, hey, if youmake this decision, it's going
to cost you x.

If you make, if we make that decision, it's going
to cost us x, or you're going tobe protected against being
billed extra, like there's allsorts of ways that you can do it
and uh, that's very good pointyou bring up, and for me it's
like all that is in the contract, because my contract's been the
same, like you know, then, andthey had signed it.
Obviously my thing was thosewas, you know and again I

(11:20):
completely agree with you, couldhave charged them extra, but uh
, it was covid times and it wasa covid related situation, not
that again the guy had covid, itwas just again, I don't know, I
don't want to speak on hismedical history.
He said he didn't, he tested it, you know, but we didn't know
until that morning.
You know how she told us upfront, you know.

(11:41):
But the other thing being isthe client was not comfortable
and I'm like this is covid times, so you know it wasn't normally
yeah.
So I'm like, uh, if, if we haveto let him go, we have to let
him go, you know, and I stillpaid him full rate and all that.
You know, of course I'm notgonna dock his pay, even though
we suffered, um, so it was kindof like, and do I want to bring
up a covid thing?
You know, like, hey, due tocovid, we had to let this guy go

(12:03):
.
And I'm like, then I don't knowwho takes the liability,
because at the end day the guydidn't tell me that he was gonna
call, like he was alreadyfeeling that in the before he
showed up.
It's not, it didn't have it did.

Alex Minor (12:13):
It happened on set, it was, it was, it happened yeah
, he was already in thatcircumstance, specifically
because of the time that youwere in.

I feel like it was the right decision to you know,
swallow it, yeah, but um,normally no, you're right.

Alex Minor (12:29):
But normally, yeah, you would, that, you would.
The clients got to pay for thatbecause it was their decision.
Um, but like, because of thetime, because of the
circumstance, the context of thesituation, it was probably the
right decision.

Yes, and and yeah, exactly, and I and I would hope
that, uh, that wouldn't flytoday, but also people wouldn't
be that freaked out over a fewcoughs I mean, I mean, I still
don't yeah I don't stillrecommend anyone showing up on
set like sick anyway, like justif you.
If you know it, it's one thingthat happens on set, but if you
already know it, just let theproduction know they.

(13:02):
I would rather be planning foran out or change or something
than doing it later.

Alex Minor (13:08):
But right because that's because that's not fair
to the other people on the crew.
Like if you show up and youknow you're sick and you're
working and then other peopleget sick, that affects their
ability.

Because even if it's not, covid, we could still
get other cough or whatever, orcommon cold, whatever you have.
We don't want that and becauseyou know we're working
professionals, we don't want tolose working days because we
don't need.
We don't need these sets beinglike elementary school germ
factories yeah, so, uh, now, um,I completely understand, like
you know you need the project orwhatever, but trust me, I uh,

(13:39):
you know you it's yeah, like Ididn't have to get that guy
again, you know.
So it's kind of like that itwasn't worth something showing
up yeah, I'd rather you've beenup front like hey, this I'm
feeling, um, blah, blah.
You know how, what do you think?
Leave it on the production,because I would have normally
been like, hey, yeah, you know,why don't you stay home, let me,
let me call alex or somebodyelse on the crew and see if they

(14:00):
have somebody else that cancome.
And i'm'm sure we would havefigured it out, because I was
also new.
I didn't have a network backthen back here, so anything else
you remember from that shoot,it was pretty fun.
It's been a while, so I get it,but all I remember is us just
having so much fun on set.

Alex Minor (14:15):
Yeah, it was fun.
I liked working with you, beingable to, you know, get some
money in my homie's pocket,Quentin, by hooking you up with
him.
And so that's what it's aboutto me is being able to make
money and help other people getmoney in their pocket.

Yeah, and then Quentin and I became friends.
It's so crazy, like I said, wewould have never met if it
wasn't.
And he told the story, how hemet you on this podcast.
So but, like I said, I meanthat's how you build your
network right.
You meet with different people,you know you be on different
sets and what's crazy is andI've told that story, so I won't
go into that but like how Iended up pigeonholing for a

(14:56):
while Quentin into being theaudio guy Because he was just
helping us do audio, I didn'tknow that.
I was like I need an localaudio guy.
You know, I didn't.
I didn't have that big of anetwork.
Like I said, I just come backand um and uh obviously quentin
came out.

Alex Minor (15:14):
He did great.

So I'm like, oh good, audio guy, so a few days
after that I hired him as anaudio guy and he did fine.
So I'd never even once like andwe never.
We weren't friends at thebeginning, we were just working.
So I'm like, I don't.
I'm like, oh good, audio guy.
Then I come to find out he'slike oh, I'm a camera guy, I'm
the audio, just doing audio asyou know.
Side thing, because he knowsabout, you know, with live
streaming guys yeah we learneverything.
So, anyway, and I was like, ohreally, I pigeonholed you, I

(15:36):
would have never known.
So I was like, okay, let mebring you now as a camera guy or
whatever, right.
And then I learned the wholething about AV and I'm like,
come on, we have way more commoninterests than we talk about.
And same thing with you.
Initially we met doing DP andthis type of work, but then,
when I find out, going back toit for a decade, you were doing
AV work which, like I said, waspart of what kept me going

(15:58):
through the pandemic was tonsand tons of live streaming.
It was part of what kept megoing through the pandemic was
tons and tons of live streaming.
So how did you get into AV workand obviously clearly paid the
bills for a long time.

Alex Minor (16:10):
I got into AV work by accident, sort of.
So I went to Full Sail A lot ofyou probably know about Full
Sail and when I came out Iwanted to get into the news,
because I went to Full Sail foraudio, ironically enough, um and
.
But what I didn't know is thatlike full-time sound positions
in the news industry have hadbeen dying off.

(16:33):
Luckily I was able to get a jobat channel 13, which is a local
cable news station in orlando,and I was doing audio there.
But I was at the point where Ihated my life because the
environment just sucked.
And finding out that audio waskind of a dying thing in the
industry it kind of like alsosoured me and I was looking for

(16:57):
another full-time job.
I ended up applying to an AVcompany for a full-time job, not
really knowing what it was.
I just saw that they had audioas a position and I'm like okay,
and they didn't hire mefull-time but they hired me as a
part-timer, which is what theycall their freelancers, and that
was my introduction to AV.
The first job they sent me outon was setting up for some

(17:22):
conference late at night, had togo out, set up screens and run
wires and all that stuff.
That was my first exposure toAV and when I saw what it was
and I started talking to otherpeople who were working there
and started finding out what themoney was like and what you
could possibly make, and youknow, I started trying to get on

(17:45):
with more companies and andluckily you know somebody when I
was asking questions, a guyjust took me aside.
It was like here, take out apiece of paper, write down these
names.
He's like here, write downthese names, phone numbers, hit
these companies up.
And that was the start of mefreelancing in av was a guy, was
just, you know, generous enoughto like give me a list of names

(18:08):
and be like call thesecompanies, try to get on and
shout out to that guy off to theraces, yeah because that's the
type of people we need in theindustry, not the gatekeeper.
Yeah, a lot of people have that,that scarcity mindset, where
they think, oh, if I give thisguy a leg up, he's gonna take my
clients.
I'm like the only way somebodyis gonna take your clients is if
you f up.

Yeah, you know, if you don't, if you don't give
the service you're supposed to,and if you're that easily
replaced, then you know you needto work on yourself.

Alex Minor (18:35):
Exactly, yeah so so it's like so that's always been
my attitude.
If I lose a client, if I getreplaced, it's because I did
something wrong, not becausesomebody.
I mean, now there is politics,there is, you know, people like
I've had people try to ruin mycareer, um, so there there is
somebody who doesn't like you,what?
Not everybody's a good judge ofcharacter wow that's new one.

I've never met anyone who had anything bad so
far I mean in the three, fouryears I've known you, anyone who
said anything bad about,because I'm generally a nice guy
but but, like I, I fullyrecognize that I have my quirks.

Alex Minor (19:11):
And there are people who either were you know, like
me and you we meet and we'reinstantly gonna gel, or there's
people who are gonna be like Idon't know about that guy and
and I'm okay with that becauseyou know, that means the people
who are around me are usuallypeople that I can trust.

And no, I completely agree with you.
There are always going to bepeople.
You know we're humans raisedunder different circumstances.
At the end of the day, we'rethe same but we're different,
and you never know who you'regoing to gel with, who you're
going to like, who's going to,and, at the end of the day, you
also want to find people whomotivate you.
My who's going to and, at theend of the day, you also want to
find people who motivate you.

(19:48):
My biggest thing is, I couldhave done this long, long time
ago.
I didn't have the guidance, thementorship around me to tell me
Vipple, why aren't you startinga production company?
Why aren't you making thisbigger than yourself?
Right, I was just so like.
I just want to be on set youknow and I would take whatever
just to be on set, and thenthat's why it had to happen the
way, and I mean I'm not going tochange the other side of the
point is not everybody's builtto to start a production company

(20:11):
.

Alex Minor (20:12):
Um, some people are perfectly happy being
freelancers and that's okay, andyou can have a long, productive
, active career, uh, just beinga freelancer.
You don't have to start acompany because, and I mean, you
can start a one-person companyand also be fine, yeah, and
operate as a production company,get bigger clients.

(20:32):
I mean, for, to be honest, butthat's most of what you do is
you you're mostly a one-manoperation, but you've grown to
have a significant amount ofrevenue and in a significant
level of clients.

Yes, you're absolutely right, I do realize
the company is mostly me, but Idon't want to take away from all
the people, like we just met,julie, who keep me, you know,
sane and who keep, like, myworkflow separate.
So I do have, you know,post-production handled by her,
and then the other freelancersthat we've hired, uh, but
they're almost get full-timework, and then an animation

(21:09):
department.
But now, yes, I do, you know,work with a lot of freelancers
on the shooting side.
But, you're right, yes, I am,the company is just basically me
, uh, but I don't take away fromall the people that help me.

Alex Minor (21:21):
Thank you guys, thank you yes yeah, and there's
nothing wrong with that yeah Imean, and I think I think more
guys who are freelancers butlooking for ways to level up and
scale their careers need to beopen to the idea of hiring help.
A lot of guys are stuck in themindset of I have to do
everything myself, and that canbe a fast recipe for burnout,

(21:45):
depending on what you're doing.

No, you're absolutely right.
As long as you do what you likeand you're passionate about it
and you don't give up, you'llfind success.
And if that is that, hey, Ijust want to be a DP or a
freelancer or whatever you wantto be absolutely go for it.
Because, like you said, Icompletely agree.
This production owner, companyowner life is not for everyone.
It's long days, long nights,very little sleep, sometimes

(22:11):
weeks away from family.
You know it's not for everyone.
But if you again give it your100%, just like anything,
there's a lot of potential forrevenue and success.
So it's kind of like, you know,as long as you're willing to
put in, you can find.
You know it'll give you theoutcome if that's what you
desire.
And at the end day, you know,I've had people here who are

(22:32):
just single one person, people,you know, maybe with an awesome
pocket, making six figures too.
So if that's the route you wantto go with, then that's the
route you go with and that'swhat I love is, uh, just
conversations with people whoare trying to make a living
doing video, but completelydifferent paths, right yeah and
and still finding success.
Uh, because it doesn't have tobe a linear path like, hey, do

(22:54):
this I don't think success isever a linear path now, but I am
happy to like share at leasteverything I learned and I did,
if somebody wants.
I don't know if it'll work ifyou 100% copy me, but I'm happy
if you want to.
I'm happy to share because Idon't have that scarcity mindset
.
I don't care if you copy me andthat's how.

Alex Minor (23:11):
I am with people, I'm an open book, Working with
Quentin, working with Ben.
Over the years, I've alwaystried to put them on game, show
them things that I've learned,tell them things that I've
learned.
Tell them things that I learned.
I mean, even if they want tolook at the invoices and see how
I'm charging, like I don't,care, Like because you know,
either either you're going towant to work with me or you're

(23:33):
not going to want to work withme.

And and and you know, like I said, if I lose a
client, it's it's because Imessed up.
Yeah, just sharing informationdoesn't make you lose a client,
rather than make they like you.
I was just hanging out with aclient of client, technically,
uh, but as soon as I told themof the podcast, they were so
excited.
They're like why we want towatch it and stuff like that,
because they get intrigued andthey want to know.
So what I'm saying is uh, youknow it's the relationship that
you build and you go do a shootand then you hang out and have

(24:03):
dinners after, or you know,those are the good clients, so
they're not going to replace you.

Alex Minor (24:08):
And again, if you're that easily replace, see, I
need to learn that level ofrelationship building because I
don't think I've, I don't thinkI've ever like just hung out
with a really dude.

I gotta show you footage.
Then, when I recorded theclient, I guess client's
employee would be the right way,but my client I guess the whole
company is my client.
But like our clients, clientsto share, um, but funny enough,
he was literally had sparklersin a restaurant going.
Yeah, they went nuts, butthat's the fun about it.
That's what I'm saying.
Like, people need to, you know,just have fun and be chill and

(24:42):
build relationships.
And now, not all clients dothat, let me be real.
Uh, but sometimes that can bethe backfired.
I've been uninvited, that'swhat I was telling them.
They were like oh, do you?
I hope you don't mind coming.
I was like no, you guys aregreat.
I love coming out to dinnerswith you.
I've been stuck in situationswhere a ceo will invite you and
then now you're in a freakingdinner with these c-suite people

(25:02):
and it's so boring.
It's like what am I doing here?

Alex Minor (25:06):
like I'd rather just not eat sometimes but one thing
that av has taught me is thatsometimes you just need to show
up.
Yeah, like because.
Because one big mistake that Imade early on in av is that I
never tried to hang out withpeople.
I never like when people would,uh, after this, you know, after
a show day, would want to goout to dinner or to go to the

(25:29):
bar, hang out like.
I would never do that.
Um yeah, and that's, and that'sand that, and it's not that that
was bad, but it just that'swhere a lot of people build
relationships and bonds, where,like, they will recommend you to
other companies if somebodysays to them, hey, I need this
person, for I need a person forsuch and such, or you're already

(25:49):
booked for a show, and they say, hey, we also need somebody who
does this.
Do you know anybody?
The people that they hung outwith at the bar or that they had
a good time with on the lastshow, those are the people there
they're thinking about andbecause I didn't do that, like,
I really stayed to myself a lot,um, I'm not the person that
they're thinking of to get thosecalls no, and I completely get
that.

That's why I like to, you know, hire people who
are more extroverts, because so,and plus, these are the type of
people that I would be morecomfortable with.
So I can, I don't mind hangingout because, same thing, I'm an
introvert, I especially if it'snot video people.
I don't want to hang out withthem and plus, I don't drink.
So I tend to.
Uh, here's my technique ifsomebody was to copy see, I

(26:30):
don't want to drink, I don'tlike drinking, I don't like
hanging out and just doingrandom.
No, I'll get one, I'll, so I'lltake whatever.
So I wait what they order.
They're like give me a heineken, whatever.
Whatever they order, I'm likejust give me one of those and
then I'll just sip thatthroughout the whole time while
they have had six.
I'm still on that first one.
That was you know, I'm notreally drinking, but I'm not

(26:52):
also the outcast because youalso don't want to be to me.
If, like, I'm there and I'mlike, oh, I'm not going to drink
, then they're not going to hangout with you a lot of time.
It's like hey, do you want tograb a drink?
So I don't want to go there andpersonally be ordering, like a
water or whatever.
So what I do is just give meone of whatever they get and
then I'm just going to slow itdown.
I'm just not going to drink itlike normally.

(27:12):
I'm just take a sip every 10minutes or whatever.
So that was.
It's like I'm not actually notdrinking, but I'm also not
really drinking, yeah, and Ithink it ends up um, working
well because, again, you're inthat conversation, they're in
their zone, they feelcomfortable and you're
absolutely right, that's how youbuild some of the better
relationships, especially withpeople that are on par meaning.

(27:36):
It may not always be like theowner or whatever.
It may be the other people, butthat makes it easier to work
there, eh.
Because, you know you have agood relationship, you like each
other.
Why wouldn't you want to dothat same mindset?
But then also, uh, like yousaid, that when they need
someone or they need torecommend someone, who are they
going to recommend you?
Right, so not, it's a, it's awin-win for everyone and it's a

(27:59):
good time like.
Otherwise I would have been inmy room miserable, you know
whatever, watching some otherfreaking video content about
equipment that I don't need towatch, you know.
So, I don't know, to me that'sthe technique that it's always
worked for me and that's kind ofwhat I stick to.
Just, you know, drink whateverthey're drinking, just drink it
very, very, very slow.
So that was.

(28:19):
You know you're not like anoutcast, or you're not.

Alex Minor (28:21):
Just, I don't know like an outcast or you're not
just I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, and it's the samething in the music industry too
, because I have history in themusic industry and I have
friends who are like signed torecord labels and stuff and they
told me like sometimes just theway you get the opportunity is
just being there, like sometimesit's just because you were
there, and if you weren't therethen you missed the chance yeah,

(28:43):
and it's the same what we teach, like talk.

When we work direct with clients, we tell
them the same thing, right, likewhen we're trying to help them
with their video strategy.
It's like, hey, people buy frompeople they know, like and
trust.
Same thing with video people.
If you're just trying to gethired by, you know, your friend
or whoever, or get arecommendation, they're going to
recommend.
Guess what If somebody calls meand says, hey, ripple, do you

(29:05):
want to come do this shoot?
And I'm like, nah, I'm notavailable.
Who am I going to recommend?
I'm going to recommend thepeople I trust because my name
goes with it.
Right, I'm not going to gorecommend somebody I just met
because I don't know their skill, I don't know their results.
I know Alex.
I'm like, okay, I know Alex cando a good job.
I'm going to recommend you anda few other people that I work
with where I'm like, okay, Iknow what they bring, not some

(29:28):
random person or somebody Ibarely met, like, let's say, a
couple of times.
That's just the truth.
So the only way you can be inthat zone with people is by
being in that zone.
So just make an effort, right,just talk.
It doesn't hurt and plus it'sfun.
Talk, uh, it doesn't hurt andplus it's fun.
Usually you're like-minded inthe video industry.
That should be easy forsomebody who's trying to do this

(29:48):
.
Right should be, yeah, shouldbe.
I mean.
Otherwise, you need to findbetter, better people that you
connect with, and if you're notconnecting with anyone, then
again, then that's where, to me,is a mirror moment right.
You need to go reflect in themirror and see why are people in
the industry not liking me, orwhy they not want to be friends
with me, or what a lot of peoplearen't self-aware enough to do
that reflection well, that's whythis is.

(30:09):
This is here.
Maybe they're listening to thisand going look, if my thing is,
networking is easy, just call,tell me this.
If somebody hooked, uh, reachedout to you from the group chat
and just said hey, alex wouldlove to grab a coffee, what
would your response be?
If you're free, okay, there yougo.
That's what I'm saying.
So what I'm saying is reach out.
Not everyone will say yes, buta lot of good people will.

(30:31):
And there's your network.
If most people are saying no,that's when you go in the mirror
and you see what's happening.
Why is everyone saying no to me?
Because at that point it's aself-reflecting thing and see,
am I bringing some bad energy orwhatever?
I don't know.
Uh, there has to be a reason,is what?
I'm saying why if everyone'stelling you no and the, then
then yeah, that's different.

Alex Minor (30:52):
One person no, not much yeah, but I still think a
lot of people, you know, justdon't have that level of
self-awareness or that level ofmaturity to to be able to say I
think we can do that becausewe've been through some things
yeah I mean even like going backto av, like there was, there
were, I.
I had to learn some hardlessons, like there was.
Sometimes there was like a timeI got kicked off a show and and

(31:15):
things like that.

I want to know that story I'm still not sure.

Alex Minor (31:19):
I'm still not 100 sure like you have some idea.
Well, the project manager onthat show.
I had worked with him on aprevious show, like a year or
something before, and we hadbumped heads because I was the
video engineer and I was tryingto problem solve an issue with
the LED wall and he wasinsistent that the signal run to

(31:44):
the LED wall one way.
When there was the way that Ihad wanted to do it from the
beginning, I knew we wouldn'thave had that problem.
And so I'm going, I'm jumpingthrough hoops to do it the way
that he wants and finally I gotto a point where I was so
frustrated because he keptcoming to me and being like, why

(32:05):
isn't this fixed, why is this?
And?
And like, because I knew thatthe way that I wanted to do it
would work without the issue, Ifinally lost it.
It was like if we had just doneit the way that I wanted to
from the beginning, thiswouldn't have happened.

Oh yeah.

Alex Minor (32:15):
And we finally ended up having to go with my way,
but he was.
But he was so insistent thatyou know I won't.
And he was, he had a Britishaccent which made it even worse,
he's like.
I want to do it the proper way.
Your proper way doesn't work,bro.
Yeah, or it's, it's it.
The signal gets there, butwe're getting errors in the
signal.
And it's because you're beinginsistent on this way, when this

(32:39):
alternative method of gettingthe signal there doesn't have
these issues.

Yeah, dinosaurs, basically who alternative method
of getting the signal theredoesn't have these issues.
Yeah, dinosaurs, basically, whodon't want to adapt.

Alex Minor (32:49):
Well, he was a young dude, but he was just.
Yeah, but he was like I heard Idon't know for sure I heard he
was like one of the big wigs inthe company's sons and which is
probably why he was a projectmanager at so young.
Um, but saying like I want to doit the proper way is it's like
there's no, like there isn't oneway, bro, like there was
multiple ways to get signal tothat wall, but the one that you

(33:11):
chose sucked yeah, and it didn'twork because we kept getting we
kept getting like littledistortions in the signal and he
and like I, I did everything Icould to stick with the signal
chain that he wanted and it justwasn't working and and finally
we ended up going with my waybecause we just needed to get it
done and not have these errors.

(33:31):
But I think that left a badtaste in his mouth and it was
just like no, I get that.
I tried to tell him, but he was,but he ended up being the
project manager on this reallybig show for Google that I was
on, which manager on this reallybig show for google that I was

(33:55):
on, which I had been on the yearbefore, nothing had gone wrong,
like everything had gone right,um, and and this one, like I
still don't.
I I think just I don't knowwhether the tension was really
high or something but it waslike there were multiple crews
doing multiple things and like Ikind of bumped heads with with
one of the other crews that wereon the on the show about, um,
how, how a certain piece ofequipment that was in the room

(34:16):
that I was taking was set up,because they were coming around
setting this one piece ofequipment and then I'm running
like everything else.
But I had to connect to and andoversee this other piece of
gear during the show and andlike I told him, like yo, can
y'all, like I've got it workingwith everything else, can y'all
not change this one setting inhere when you come in?

(34:37):
And they kept doing it.
So like every time they came inthe room I would lose control
of the device remotely, becauseI wanted to have remote control
of the device just in casesomething happened during the
show.
I wanted to be able to not haveto come out from backstage, to
be able to fix it.
Um, and every time that they andand I don't remember whether I
went to them or I went to asupervisor, I was like yo can

(34:58):
you please tell these guys tostop changing this one thing?
Like I know they're doing theirthing, but but like every time
they come in I lose control ofthis device.
I have everything else working.
Can you please just like tellthem not and?

they and they just .

Alex Minor (35:13):
And but then another dude like there was an another
switcher that I had justfinished setting up and this one
guy who was going around.
And this was another guy whoI'd worked with previously and I
thought that we we had jivedokay on the previous job I had
been on with this dude.
Um, I had just finished settingup this switcher, hooking
everything up, which was a painbecause of where it was

(35:34):
positioned, and and like I justcrawled out from beyond, from
under the table, just finishedgetting his set, he walks in.
He's like, hey, they want to,they want us to do this thing
this way with the switcher now.
And I'm like, oh well, that's apain.

And he just flipped out on me and just from
that, he probably may have heardthe other conversation, because
that doesn't make senseotherwise.
Well, it wasn't the Britishdude, it was somebody else.

Alex Minor (36:02):
But he just started going off on me and I'm like
dude, I didn't say I wouldn't doit, I just said it was annoying
to have to change it when Ijust finished hooking this thing
up and he stomps out and I hadan assistant this was out in
Cali, this show was and I had alocal assistant from the local
union was there being my helper,and I turned to him and I go do

(36:27):
you understand what justhappened there?
Yeah and he's like no, what wasthat about?

and and I'm just like, and the next thing I know,
like an hour or two later I'mkicked off the show well, yeah,
so I think it was just all of ittogether, maybe, maybe because,
uh, like you said, he he had abad experience from the last one
, even though it's his own fault, uh, and maybe people talked,

(36:54):
or whatever.
I mean yeah, I guess, so I meanwe're just making assumptions at
this point.
But that's I'm so glad you tellthis story, because people can
then hear what happens.
There is a lot of politics,politics on set, and here's the
thing, what I've learned.
It doesn't matter if you'reright or wrong.
If you're you're the only one.
That that's even though, like Isaid, you were probably right.

(37:18):
But if everyone's like, oh,Alex is just telling us we're
wrong, they were probably deadand oh.
Alex is just telling us we'rewrong.
Then it's like, oh, here's acommon thread.

Alex Minor (37:26):
Then, as a leader, they would have probably
eliminated the common thread,not realizing that what you were
trying to say was just helpingthe production, but because
everyone had the one name ontheir mind, which is Alex and
plus you know, and that's when Iadopted the policy of just give

(37:48):
them what they want, andbecause I used to want to do
things the best way and I wouldgo out and advocate for doing
things the best way, and afterthat I just stopped Because it's
like people don't want to dothings the best way or they
don't want to spend the money,they want to cut corners.

(38:09):
And my policy now is like Iwill tell you once that what we
are, that what you are tellingme to do, is either a bad idea
or that there's a better way todo it, and after that I'm done.
Yeah, like after that, I will doit I will do it the way that
you told me to do it, like Iwill.

(38:29):
I will say it the one time tocover my ass, so that, so that
it's on record or somebody hearsthat I said, hey, this isn't a
good idea because of xyz.
Like, I will do it, but it'snot a good idea, or okay, I can
do it this way, but there's abetter way to do it.
This is what the better way is.
Which one do you want me to do?

(38:50):
And then?
And then I'll do it whicheverway that they insist on doing it
.
But, like, after I say it once,I'm quiet yeah, because at the
end day it's their production.

No, and that's what I don't want anyone to get
turned away from av industry.
Quentin was here too, who hasalso worked just like you on the
AV side, and we talked about, Ithink, how incredible AV can be
for somebody who's new, whodoesn't have gear.
With zero investment you can goin and start making good day

(39:20):
rates.
Obviously, you have to learnwhat you're doing.
Hopefully somebody can take youunder the wing and show you.

Alex Minor (39:28):
But you can be a stage hand, you can be a camera
operator slowly.
You know, quentin was a specialcase because he already had a
skill set that let him walk inthe door making good money
exactly, and I and I hooked himup well, of course, that's what
I'm saying.

You need somebody to hook you up and then you need
uh, and then that's networking.
But you can make money tomorrowyou know what I mean without
any investment.
You don't have to go buy thosecameras, you don't have to go
buy those cables.
The company will bring it.
But here's the other side of it, which is why I'm like I get
all those instances, as somebodywho does a lot of conferences

(39:58):
and a lot of uh, you know livestreaming.
I have to deal with av companieswhich tend to be I say that,
only a few, most of them, youknow live streaming.
I have to deal with AVcompanies which tend to be I say
that only a few.
Most of them, you know, aremonopolies pretty much.
But the AV companies, eitherway, that I deal with, it's a
pain.
Like I've been on conferencethe most recent one three days.
Literally every morning we hadthe same technical issue.

(40:21):
So I'm coming out resolving thesame technical issue with audio
.
I'm like I don't understand.
And the last day they just hadtwo XLR cables there.
I'm like I don't which one isit?
And they're like, oh, it's thesame signal.
No, it's not.
Then why?
Why do I have two cables.
So here I am again, technicaltroubleshooting.
I'm like guys, this is a daythree, last day, we should have

(40:46):
figured this out by now.
Client is paying you to sendthe signal to me, right, like,
get this right anyway.
But dealing with av companiescan be a pain because I get it
day one issues, but like, whyare we having the exact same
issue every morning and day two?
and some companies are just likeyeah and and so at that point
you know, you just go like Icould, like I said, go butt
heads with them.
I'm just like, no, I'm working.
And then the other thing was Ineeded I a decimator, I need an
extra decimator or some kind ofconverter, hd, hdmi, whatever

(41:07):
and they didn't have one.
I'm like what kind of AVcompany are you that you cannot
like?
You don't even have even acheaper one.
I get it.
Like you don't want to give methe good stuff, I get it.
And I was like I didn't think Iwould need two, because, you
know, change Obviously thingschange.
That's okay and you know it'snot like I'm home.

(41:27):
I could go back or go back tothe van and grab one.
I'm out in freaking Californiaso I can't really change things
Anyway, like you said.
So having to deal with AVcompanies all the time it's not
a best experience.
At least he made it look likehe was doing an effort, the boss
.
He literally was like oh yeah,I'm gonna go to this room, I'm
gonna go to this room.

Alex Minor (41:48):
let's say he went around this 1800 person
conference and could not findone decimator or converter or
something and I was like itdoesn't make sense converters,
unfortunately, are one of thethings that sometimes you get
shortchanged on um just yeah,but you know that's just one of

(42:08):
those things like I used to as avideo engineer, I used to carry
around a bunch of converters inmy case, because that's kind of
like what I was taught, and alot of video engineers still do
that.
But I got sick of saving showsyeah like, but because, because
of what I brought in my box, Igot sick of bringing extra
watches.
They should have extras, yeah,Like just carrying stuff through
the airport and having to checkan extra bag.

(42:29):
It just got tiring and so now Idon't, I bring a backpack and
that's it.
I don't bring a work case whicha lot of people still do and
like more power to you and Imean it's worth the investment
if you're full time in AV,you're full time as an audio
engineer, video engineer.
You develop your, your ownlittle workflows and tricks and

(42:50):
and just habits of what you'dlike to be able to have on hand
to use and you start bringingthe work box just so you have
the stuff that you want.
But I got.
I got sick of saving shows, Igot sick of the extra weight and
I was just yeah, no, Icompletely get it.

Like I said, it's a good avenue.
So I don't want to discount it.
But having somebody like I saidon my side, like I said, I'm
not an AV guy you and Quintonwould be my go-tos if somebody
came for AV.
My experience is just dealingwith them as a production
company, which is not thegreatest.
People individually are nice.
Let me be real.
People, which is not thegreatest people individually are

(43:26):
nice.
Let me be real.
People individually are verynice.
It's overall as an industry.
They're very hard to work with.
They're very dated.
Their, their techniques arevery dated.
It's just.
It is just what it is it's.

Alex Minor (43:35):
It's a, it's an industry where there's a lot of
well, this is how we've alwaysdone it, and so it's a struggle
to get them to, to change theirways or to become more modern.
Unless that's been like, unlessthat's been like their mo from
the beginning, of always wantingto be on the cutting edge, of
always wanting to have thelatest and greatest, otherwise

(43:58):
it's oh, that still works, let'srent it out, even though that's
the, even though that'ssomething that nobody should be
using anymore, and that's justwhat it is right.

So, coming back to it, the you, obviously you did
that.
You did great.
You made a great living fromdoing av stuff.
Uh, but pandemic hits,obviously.
We all know a conferenceindustry, av industry is pretty
much dead in the water at thatpoint.
So so you obviously lean toyour production, which you
already had it set up.
What did you do?

(44:29):
How did you get clients?

Alex Minor (44:32):
Honestly, it was just.
One client called me one dayand it seemed that just started
the ball rolling.
It was a client that I workedwith before, a wonderful man by
the name of Simon T Bailey, andhe wanted some more videos.
And the funny thing about Simon, and one of the reasons I am

(44:53):
grateful to God for Simon TBailey he is a blessing, because
the first time that I met Simonwas when I was shooting a
podcast for a friend of mine forfree, lorena Acosta.
And she turns to him and she'slike Simon, don't you do videos?
And he's like yeah, he's likeyou need to work with Alex.
And so he called me up.

(45:13):
He hired me to shoot somevideos for him.
I think the first job that Idid for him I charged him $500.
I thought that was the onlytime I was ever going to see him
yeah I made more than 50 granddoing stuff for simon t bailey.
Look at that look at that.

You never know, a little shout out can lead to 50
grand.

Alex Minor (45:32):
That's crazy yeah, and I mean that was over the
course of several years likeI've done stuff with simon as as
recently as last year.
Uh, was it last year?
Yeah, it was.
It was last year because thatwas during the summer that we
did that.
Yeah, so as recently as lastyear I've done work with Simon.

And look at that.
It's all about, you know,building those relationships and
keeping the clients over theyears.
The revenue keeps coming in andyou know 50, obviously over the
years, but times, you know, Idon't know, 20.
And that could become, you know, really good.

Alex Minor (46:05):
Well, there was one year where there was one great
year where it was like 30 grandoff assignment because he had a.
He had licensed the TV show toa cable network and we were his
go to solution to get the showdone.

Look at that.
So did you.
Did you do anything elseoutreach or any other way to
find clients or were they justcoming in because you've been
doing this so long?

Alex Minor (46:29):
That is a great question and I wish I had a
great answer for you.
I know it's been a little.
It's been a little bit ofdifferent things.
So some word of mouth, somenetworking'm like literally
going out to networking events,like I think my very first video

(46:49):
client that I landed on my ownwas from going out to networking
events.
Actually, the first few wasfrom going like the in-person
networking events, um, and thenand then word of mouth referrals
, like Lorena with Simon doingsocial media.

(47:10):
Linkedin, instagram has gottenme some.
Maybe even Facebook has gottenme a little bit.
I hate Facebook so I don't likebeing on the platform.
It's gotten so messy.
I just don't like being on theplatform.
It's gotten so messy, like, Ijust don't like being on the

(47:30):
platform, um, but I think I'veeven gotten some clients through
Facebook, um, but uh, what's,what's the, what's the website?

Um, yeah, not next door up work or not up work?

Alex Minor (47:45):
thumbtack, thumbtack .
Uh, I actually made a goodamount of money through
thumbtack one year um, and Iactually want to get back on
thumbtack because I made such agood amount of money through
thumbtack, but they the thingthat I don't like about
thumbtack is that they make youpay just for lead um and, and
that's why I had terrible leadsright and, and so when you're

(48:08):
setting up your profile, thatcould be something else we get
into.
Like you got to be superspecific about what you do,
because you, because, becauseyou pay for every lead that
comes in, and if you and ifpeople are, you know, hitting
you up for stuff that you justdon't do, like that's wasted
money, um, but I was, I wasspending, and this is and this

(48:30):
is another tangent we could goon, um with thumbtack.
It was costing me about 300 permonth in leads, but my average
job was like three thousanddollars.

So yeah, so it's worth it.

Alex Minor (48:43):
Yeah, so if I got, if I got one job a month, it was
, it was fine.
Or even if I got one job everycouple of months, it was fine,
because I was still, I was stillwinning, I was still making,
you know, like twelve hundreddollars profit, you know, on
each one yeah, that's actually apretty good idea I've had.

You know, like I said I'm I'm hearing about these
small websites.
I did make a tomdak profile two, six, seven years ago.
Didn't get any luck.
You know of the type of leads Iwanted to get from it.
So I've tried all these avenuesa little bit.
So it's always great to hearfrom people who did find success
on it.
Um, I like said um doron, whowas talking about like upwork,
and I'm like what you're findingpaid clients on upwork that are

(49:23):
paying decent money?
Because you know Upwork is likecheap international people is
what I find at least Most peopleuse it for.
So anyway, people, yeah, you'vebeen able to find work off
platforms where people wouldn'ttypically consider to be able to
get like a 3K job right.
That's just so crazy to thinkabout that you went on Thumbtack
, paid 300 bucks for leads andsold a 300 3k project.

(49:50):
That's, that's crazy what typeof?

Alex Minor (49:51):
is it a typical corporate stuff?
Um, talking, some of it wastalking head b-roll.
The the most interestingproject was a gym in south
florida.
They were looking for, uh likea sales video.
Um, they were in some coachingprogram and like they had a
specific script that they weretrying to do and and I mean we
did a great video for them andthey were happy.
They were super happy with theproject they even gave us.

(50:13):
We even got a testimonial fromthem.
Um, and we weren't the onlycompany that they considered off
of thumbtack, but they said wewere the most professional in
the approach, like in and how tothem what, how we laid out the
plan and all that stuff, and sothat's what made the difference
in them hiring us, even thoughthey said we were the most
expensive option.

Yeah, you never have to be the cheapest, or?
Or?
You know what I'm saying isyour price doesn't matter, you
can be the most expensive.
Obviously, I wouldn't try tojust be expensive just to be
expensive.
But I think, as long as youprice a project right, just be
expensive just to be expensive,but I think as long as you price
a project right, um, and you'resure about your pricing
strategy, most times people youknow tend to go with the best
and they don't really look at it, even though they'll say, oh,

(50:54):
we want the cheapest option.
That's not true.
They want the best option, andthey will.
They're usually willing to pay,um, you know it depends on the
it depends on the caliber ofclient.

Alex Minor (51:04):
Um, because there are a lot of people out there
looking for the cheapest option.
I just think you want toposition yourself so that you're
not willing to be the cheapestoption uh, you should be at
least in the middle of the pack,price wise, or you should be to
the middle, to the high end ofthe price range is where you
should aim to be because theclients at the bottom and tell
me if you've had this experience.

(51:25):
I find the less you charge, theclients are more difficult,
they're horrible the cheapestclients are always the most
horrible because they they'renickel and diming you.
They're the ones that, like,think that they know how to do
your job.

Um and at the end they get the bad, bad product.
Because here's what happens Ifind the best work I do is on
that mid to higher tier leveland it's not because we're doing
something special.
I give my 100 to all my clients.
But what happens is theseclients give you freedom, they
give you obviously parameters,obviously they're not just it
caters, my money, do whatever,but they get.
But that's it like they're morewilling to trust your expertise,

(52:01):
yeah, which is why they broughtyou on and, like you said, most
likely you weren't the cheapestoption.
They, they didn't pick youbecause they wanted cheap, they
wanted good and same.
You know you bring same levelof expertise and you want to
help a small business because,let's be real, we can make a
huge impact for small businesses.
Uh, but then they, they don'tbring you in as an expert, they
bring you as a, as a tool, Iguess, or?

(52:22):
I don't know uh, and it's notthe same usually.
I'm not saying all smallbusinesses are bad, but most of
them uh, then they want you todo something specific and you're
like no, I am the expert, letme do my thing.
And then it's just a battle.
A lot of times, uh, you know,because they're going by their
experience, which is not thatbest, not that experience, and
they're not letting you givethem the best, and at the end

(52:44):
everyone loses.
You have horrible clientexperience.
They get a product that's notgoing to work for them.
And then they tell people oh,video doesn't work.
And it's like no, you broughtin an expert and then you didn't
let them be an expert.
You know what I mean?
Now, it's one thing now I'veobviously heard stories of
somebody hiring like a recentfull-time grad or whatever, like
new full-sale graduate orwhatever, and like a recent

(53:06):
full-time grad or whatever, uh,like new full-sale graduate or
whatever, and then then trustingthem and then obviously didn't
go well, because the person wasgreen and they didn't know what
they were doing.
So it could go both ways, butthat's also them usually not
betting, that is well, not, notjust not vetting them, it's
usually them trying to get thecheapest price true, that too,
but also I'm saying there's alot of people who are new, who
are green, who will presentthemselves as an expert too.

(53:27):
That is a thing around here, atleast in Orlando, because you
know, what happens, at leastwhat I've noticed and again, I'm
not saying this is againsteveryone, we're just taking
takes of.
You know what we notice?
A lot of people come in.
The first thing they do is, oh,I got to start a website.
They'll lot of people come in.

(53:49):
The first thing they do is, oh,I gotta start a website.
They'll start a dp or aproduction company website and,
uh, again, these are the smartones.
I'm saying the hustlers, right,and then the, and then they'll
go find the, the people thatthey want to be copy paste.
So it's like to an averagesmall business owner who's doing
five minutes of research,you're like, oh, that's pretty
good, there you go.
And then next thing you know,when they show up on set, you
know like, oh, what did I signup for, right?
So so kind of like that.
I'm saying there's both sidesof it.

(54:10):
Either way, everyone loses, uh,because, even whether you
presented yourself as an expertor whether you weren't
presenting, you were just thecheapest option.
Either way, the result isn'tgoing to match, uh, what the
client was looking for and atthe end everyone's going to have
a bad experience.
They're not going to tell theirfriends about you and if you
don't have repeat clients andretainers and you know all that

(54:34):
shebang, you're not going tolast for too long in the
industry.
Because I've said this beforeand you tell me it's unrealistic
to say every month you're goingto find all new clients over
and over again every month aftermonth is the way.

Alex Minor (54:46):
Like you need repeat business, you, um, I mean well
it.
And again, it depends on whatkind of lane you're in now.
If you're in real estate, youmight be getting new clients
every month because yeah, newhouses come on and yeah, or if
you're, if you're a weddingvideographer, I mean, yeah, I
think it would be bad if you hadrepeat clientele.

You're telling me repeat clients is not good for
wedding videographers.
I mean, that's good, it'd befunny.
You'd be like, hey, I have.

Alex Minor (55:18):
AI tools.
You might be the bad luck charm.

It'd be so funny.
I can't wait for the day whenyou're like hey, I have AI tools
, we don.
It'd be so funny.
I can't wait for the day whenyou're like hey, I have AI tools
.

Alex Minor (55:26):
You know, we don't even need to come out anymore.
We'll just replace your husband.
Just send me a picture of yournew boo.
Yeah, we'll just plug it in,it's all right.

That'd be hilarious, but no, I get it.
Yeah, no, of course not.
This doesn't apply to weddingor any of these videographers.
Yeah, but typically for whatwe're doing, corporate
commercial work.
I don't think that much newbusiness exists.
There's tons of work foreveryone, but you have to keep
your clients.
I don't think that many newerclients exist that you can every

(55:53):
time, all the time, just findnew clients.

Alex Minor (55:56):
And any business will tell you that it's cheaper
to book repeat work than it isto book new work, absolutely
than it is to book new work.

Absolutely, and so you're better off just giving
them the best service, takingcare of them, and not worrying
about where your money's comingfrom.
Again, it's best for everyoneand it's good for them because
they get consistent work,consistent results.
Because, at the end of the day,they don't want to be in the
video business Otherwise they'dalready be in the video business
they want to be in whateverproduct or service they're in.

Alex Minor (56:25):
They just want to sell more of that, and that's
why you're just a vendor thatcan come in and help them do
that well, I mean, you don'treally want to be a vendor, you
want to be a partner, you wantto be, you want to be, you know,
somebody who can help theirbusiness get to that next level.
Um now, like we're saying, ifyou just want to be a DP, if you

(56:46):
just want to be a sound guy, ifyou just want to be an editor
like, there's no problem withbeing a hired gun and there's
plenty of work for hired gunsout there.
But if you're looking to go theproduction company route, be
more independent, find your ownwork, not have to worry about
getting on other people'sproductions or other people's
projects, then it behooves youto be more than just a vendor.

Absolutely Preach my friend, listen to him what
he's just said and uh, so you'vebeen doing this for, uh,
obviously a long, long time.
You found success.
Like you said, you've had to goout and get a job, so you're
doing really well.
What happened in 2024 thatyou'd say was an exception or
whatever?

Alex Minor (57:27):
Well it's 2024 and 2023 and it's personal issues.
Like I said, I don't believe inhiding or not being transparent
.
I'm going through a divorce andthat has affected me mentally.
That has affected meemotionally.
That has affected me mentally.

(57:49):
That has affected meemotionally.
It's been difficult to have thesame level of passion and
motivation for the businessbecause I'm worried about my
kids and and life in general andyou know I had to go set up a
whole new household, uh, burnthrough a bunch of savings and
and all that type of stuff.
So it was like, whereas beforeit was easy to really focus a

(58:09):
large portion of my mind on thebusiness and, you know, whatever
success strategies, I might'vebeen employing and things like
that.
Like now it's not, and so I'mstill working on my mental
health.
I'm still working on my mentalhealth.
I'm still working on myphysical health.
Uh, like, I used to weigh 100pounds more than I use, than I
do right now.
Um, because I didn't, because Iwas so focused on doing

(58:34):
everything for everybody else, Ididn't have the time to focus
on myself and that's so greatand I love the transformation.

By the way, um, I'm so glad you're focusing on
yourself and working on yourmental health, because that's
very important.
I can't imagine, uh, you know,uh, doing a video gig when you
have your kids to take care ofand, um, you know we've talked
about this before.
Um, you know, a lot of thesegigs happen on days.
You know, like you're gonna gofrom this day to this day and

(59:01):
you're gonna fly here and it'slike, oh, but three days you
gotta keep your kids out of that.

Alex Minor (59:04):
You can't you miss out on the whole week of pay
because there's been a lot ofthat, yeah because you know
that's just that unfortunatelife and I don't even know how
much money I've turned down inthe last two years because
because you know my kidsschedule and and stuff like that
, or not being able to to workthe the you know kids schedule

(59:25):
out with the ex-wife and thingslike that, like I've turned down
a lot of money.

So what's your strategy now in 2025?
Clearly, and you know, like Isaid, we've talked about this,
so I've seen that.
So you have the skills, youhave the talent, you have the
business know-how and it doesn'tmean you didn't do work, by the
way, people like you've beendoing work.

Alex Minor (59:46):
Yeah, I still work.

You've been doing that much work that you were
used to or can do because of allthis.
So, because, what's yourstrategy this year?
What are you going to change,or what are you at least
thinking about to, you know, tobring about a change?
Are you still working on it?
Maybe?

Alex Minor (01:00:13):
I'm still.
I'm still like trying todevelop a plan, honestly, um,
but one, a couple of things thatI know that I need to do is um,
I kind of need to, I need tofigure out well, there's yeah,
there's a bunch of stuff that Ineed to do better.
Um, but one I really need Ineed to get back to doing
networking like I did back inthe day, which I've done more of
in the last year, but not tothe level that I used to do it,
and so I want to get back todoing more in-person networking,

(01:00:35):
because I do want local work,and getting out there and being
seen and letting people know youexist is important.
So that's one thing I want todo networking in person, which
is a form of marketing.
If you weren't aware, that ismarketing.
Um, I also need to redo mywebsite.
Um, I need to get better atmaking, like, clear, concrete

(01:00:57):
offers, which is which is alwayssomething that I've like.
All coming up with offers hasalways been something I've been
bad at and and like now to thepoint where I'm like there's no
reason that you can't copy otherpeople's offers yes and and no,
it's tweaked them to fityourself, cause it's like why do
I, why do I feel like I need toreinvent the wheel, like if I

(01:01:19):
know somebody with a videoproduction company in another
state is killing it and they'vegot these three offers that
they're doing, why can't I offerthose?

Vipul Bindra (01:01:28):
and and, and the truth is you're absolutely right
having clear, defined offers,plus, if you already know the
ones that work, that'd be.
That is exactly what you neednow as somebody who likes to be,
because, like I said, here'swhat I'm.
I I'm a filmmaker first, whohas to be business owner and
entrepreneurial, because, youknow, I just want to be in cool

(01:01:49):
big sets, and those didn't exist, at least in 2018, when I
started the company.
You know, corporate video was anightmare and when it was, it
was terrible quality.
You know, we didn't even havethe level of gear we have now.
Point is, I just wanted to bein big sets and I didn't want to
do movies or music videos.
That left me with having toreinvent essentially the wheel,
which is crazy Buying high-endequipment and using it on sets,

(01:02:12):
because that's what I wanted todo.
And now here we are.
I like to be a boutique agencyoffering custom solutions, but
let's be real, that technicallyhurts you, because now you're
like well, come me first, let mepresent, let me talk to you,
and I'm not saying that's wrong.
That's a good approach, like,as we talked about, it's a
partnership approach, but a lotof times, when you're doing

(01:02:35):
online marketing.
That approach doesn't work, ortranslate that well.
Because you're like oh, let metalk to you, let me figure out
your solution versus here.
You're like here's my directoffer.
I want to talk to people inaltamont springs who are making
this much money, who do thisspecific thing.
Are you a service based?
But you know what I mean.
Like right it is.
It hits right to their braineither they are your client with

(01:02:55):
that offer or they're not.
And if they are, then theyimmediately go oh, that's me.
And they want to reach out.
Right ben was here, you know.
He explained this wholefreaking process of doing that,
like making an offer, what theoffer is and how to run them
through the meeting and uh, andit was incredible to hear
because that's not what- I needto see that episode, yes, you do
need to, because he laid itdown exactly the offer, exactly

(01:03:18):
how he runs it and then how heruns the meeting when he meets
them.
So it's like the whole shebangfrom beginning to the end.

email me that recording after this.
And you know, what's reallyamazing about ben is when I met
ben several years I don't evenremember what year I met ben now
, but he was trying, he was justtrying to get out of doing
music videos for local artistsand like he felt like when, when

(01:03:47):
we started working, he feltlike I was the big dog and now
like Ben's doing his own thingand like you know, he's breaking
all this stuff down for youLike.
Just seeing the transformationis amazing, and that's, that's
what I'm talking about.

That's what I love is, you know, helping each
other.
And now he was here and I wasso happy that he was transparent
, because I went in detail withhim because I don't do that and
I was like, hey, I want to learngenuinely.
Maybe I'll try that, I don'tknow yet.
Uh, because you know, myapproach kind of still works.
So I'm like, do I want to breakit?
Maybe I'll just try it as an asan addition.
But then the other thing was uh, people who want to try that,

(01:04:23):
because there's nothing wrongwith doing clear, concise offers
to Instagram, because he's beenable to close eight grand deals
off Instagram and I just findit so crazy to believe that
people are on Instagram, they'relooking at these offers, going
through a meeting with you,maybe a qualifying call, but
that's what it is.
It's a very simple process.
He's not doing this whole fillout a form thing.

(01:04:44):
But that's what it's a verysimple process.
He's not doing this whole fillout a form thing and then um, to
be able to close an eight granddeal for social media content
is incredible.
But he had a very good point.
He's showing people what theywant, because his literal thing
is it worked for you, right.

Like you showed up right, I'm gonna do the same
thing for you he's like thereason we're having this meeting
is because what I'm trying tosell you works.

Yeah, exactly.
And now it's like let's do thatfor you.
So I'm like oh, that's a verygood strategy, you know.

And I mean, and, like I said, I've gotten deals
off of Instagram, linkedin, knowsocial media in general, and
it's because, like, people wantthat stuff and it's like well,
my content got you here, didn'tit exactly?
And so it proved that proved.

The fact that they even show up or give you the
call proves that it works yeah,and, and at the end, I'm not a
fan of this topic, but you know,and and I would love to talk to
David about, or other peopleabout this more on this is,
nowadays you have to beessentially a micro-influencer
in a way, if not a biggerinfluencer, because, at the end
of the day again, I don't thinkit should.

Well, here's the thing that a lot of people don't
understand, or it's a truththat many people, especially in
our industry, do not want toaccept, especially when you
start going into the.
I want to be a productioncompany or like one man company
or a small team company buildingthis out.
You are not a videographer, youare not a video producer.

(01:06:22):
You are in sales.
Every single one of us is insales, but the majority of us
are not willing to accept that.
You know you are in sales andyou just happen to be selling
video services, but you are insales exactly.

And guess what, if you weren't in sales, you'd be
out of business exactly and sothe fact that in and with doing
sales also comes marketing.

None of us got into this to be salesmen and
marketers none of us.
But if you want to stay alive,if you want to stay alive, if
you want to be able to makemoney on your own without
depending on somebody else tolike, bring you the checks and
bring you the opportunities youhave to become a salesman and a

(01:07:16):
marketer.

And one of the better ways to do that is become
an influencer in a way in yourindustry, which is where the
whole thing comes in.
You can have a clear offer.
Then it's like, hey, even ifthey don't buy from you, they
follow you because they theybelieve you know you're the
expert or whatever.
You're building an audiencebecause they may not buy today,
they may buy in a year or two.
But that's the unfortunatething.

(01:07:39):
And again, I don't even thinkit's unfortunate because in life
you're always selling, becauseeven if you want to be a dp, you
better still be a goodsalesperson.
Because why should I pick youover 500 other?

dps, because everybody got a good looking
reel exactly.

Not everybody, yeah, but most people I don't
even look.
There's a lot of people withgood looking reels and funny
thing is and as a productioncompany, I'll tell you this
crazy thing I haven't evenbothered to update my since my
first reel.
Because here's the truth Ifound I don't have a reel.
Yeah, I have videos.
I have finished projects.

I don't have a reel.
I don't bother, I I haven't.

Now there's one of my, there's one of my mentors
who would tell me I'm dumb fornot having for not having a reel
, um but this but I'm tellingyou, don't need a reel, because
here's what I'll tell you.
Here's my experience with reels.

Uh, but his his real philosophy is different, though
it's not really a reel, so muchas it is like a brand video, a
type of brand, yeah, veryspecific, psychologically driven
brand video that he creates,not just a montage of a bunch of
pretty images, yeah, but buthere's the thing I did create it
still on my website, anyone cango watch it.

But here's what happened with me.
I don't know if I've told thatstory.
I've told about the client.
So I've told the story aboutthe university client that we
did testimonials for or whatever.
But you know, I had thismeeting.
So the good thing with me is,you know, again, use your
resources.
People around me already werepushing me to do this, right?
So before I registered thecompany before I'm like I'm a
video company I already had likeleads and stuff that I wasn't

(01:09:06):
following or whatever.
So I already had a couple ofleads like, hey, you need to go
talk to this professor, he needsa testimonial video, or
whatever.
And I was like, whatever,whatever, right, anyway, I'm not
into that, I'm just afreelancer.
Blah, blah, blah, anyway.
So point is, and I was like,okay, well, before I start the
company, I need to go get thisreel done, or whatever.
And it's so funny becausethat's what you think you know

(01:09:27):
because that's what everybodytells you.
So anyway, I went in and I madethis reel and I want people to
know and it's okay to you knowread your failures.
So I spent all this effortbefore launching the company to
build this reel so I can have areel and dude and from other
projects.
I didn't go shoot everything,but I did shoot something
because I wanted it to havevariety, like I wanted to have

(01:09:47):
real estate and you know talkinghand, all that, but anyway.
So I took some of my projects,some new stuff, I made a reel
and guess what happens?
I go to the shoot, we sit down.
They're like, yeah, we, this iswhat we want.
They're very clear in what theywanted.
They had no doubt because,again, it's who you come from
and the lead came from my buddy,uh, who the the professor knew

(01:10:07):
very well, so essentially he wasalready sold on me like, but
again, at that time remember, Idon't know this is my second
meeting ever day.
One of the production company,right, uh, so, um, anyway.
So I show up in the meeting.
So I they're like we want atestimonial.
This is the budget for thisother company, this is the
budget budget we have.
Can you do it?
I'm like absolutely, let meshow you my look.
So I sit there, I have thisfancy iPad, I hit play.

(01:10:31):
They sit through a minute of myreel, they watch it.
And then the first thing theprofessor says is what is this?
And you should have seen thesoul inside me die.
And I was like well, this is areal, so you can see the quality
of content.
I mean, he's like, okay, good,but like you could clearly tell
he didn't give a shit, he wasalready sold on working with me.
And here I'm trying to use areal, and the point I'm trying

(01:10:53):
to make with all this is youdon't need a real.
All I needed to do wasgenuinely and I've talked about
how the conversation went it waslike, hey, they charge.
I don't know the price is realor not.
They could have been bluffingme, but the conversation was so
easy like look, we want to makea testimonial.
We have another company, andthis was only one in town that
was I would call a legit companyand they were like they said
they want 5k, our budget is 3k,can you do it?

(01:11:16):
I was like, look, I don't,can't do it for 3k.
That would be, you know, to thelevel of quality I want to.
Can you do 4k?
You know what I mean, becauseI'm gonna meet them in the
middle.
So, okay, give us some time.
I walked out before I went likenot even a half a mile, you know
, like not far at all.
And they had already called me.
I was like, yeah, let's do it.
That was the entire salesprocess.

(01:11:37):
But what I'm saying is here mecontriving they need to see my
reel, they need to pick me onquality, or blah, blah, blah,
blah.
And the truth is, the warm leadmattered more than anything.
And then obviously I had toobviously present them with a
project that they liked and theyloved, and all that blah, blah,
blah, all that extra stuff thatcomes with it.
But the point I'm trying tomake is you don't need a reel

(01:11:57):
and from that day onward, Inever showed a client a reel
once.
So remember, at least now theycould have gone to my website,
they could have looked at it.
But I have never live onwebsites, yeah, but I have never
.
Yeah, but I'm saying I havenever had a client once
mentioned my reel or looked atmy reel or talked about my reel
since that day and I've had notrouble closing and also clients

(01:12:18):
.
Don't talk about cameras theydon't talk about none of the
image quality they like.

The only times I've ever had a client or potential
client ask me about what cameraI use or what quality we shoot
in, or a format or anythingtechnical.

Is agencies?
Probably Is.

if it was, if it was another production company that
needed me to subcontract forthem, or if it was an agency
that was looking for somebody tomatch what they already had.

Yeah, direct clients don't care and I'm glad,
like I said, I learned thatwithin my second meeting.
But what I'm trying to tellpeople is don't need a reel and
what you need is obviously skill.
But clients can see throughthat and you want warm leads
because when you get there,they're already sold on it.
You just want to kill it.
So they will now recommend youBecause if I hadn't done those

(01:13:03):
testimonials the quality thatthey wanted right then they
wouldn't have gone andrecommended me to other
departments, which is what weended up doing, right.
We closed the whole freakinguniversity with one project.
But the thing was that, like Isaid but the first lead came
from a friend you have to go outand network, get that lead Real
doesn't matter.
Then just go kill it.

(01:13:24):
Either kill it yourself bydoing a great job or bring in
people that you know who cankill it.
Don't worry about profit thefirst few gigs, because you want
to just do good quality content.
So people want to keep workingwith you and also create a good
experience.
To me it's like having fun onset, just being nice to work
with, um, just just.
You know all that matters asmuch as the final product,

(01:13:46):
because if you go in, you'remiserable or you're just not
easy to work with.
Nobody wants to then alsorecommend you either.
So it's like both of those areimportant.
The first interview is themeeting, second interview is the
shoot and then the finalinterview is the result.
And as long as you do good allthree times, you're going to
have no trouble, at least in myopinion.
Finding work Cause, like I said, I've never talked about it and

(01:14:08):
I've never had anyone come tome and be like you're real is
amazing.
I obviously we do way waybetter content than I.
That real.
I haven't even used thosecameras since like this first or
second shoot.
So none of that matters.
Your head you go.
That's what I need and Ihaven't ever bothered to update
it because nobody's cared toeven mention it.
If somebody does mention it, Iwill happily update it.

(01:14:29):
But I'm like, why spend costwhen nobody cares?
Because most of my leads arewarm leads and even when they're
new, all they say is oh, yeah,we looked at your content, it
was great.
I'm like, oh, if it's great,then it's great.
I don't know what you looked atit, but it's, you know.
And let's move on to the realthing.
Let's have a money conversationor the project.
Now, the only time I show myprojects to client is when you

(01:14:51):
get those who have no idea,right, they go.
Okay, we want to do a brandvideo.
How much does it cost?
And you know that that's a canof worms, because we can do a
brand video for 3K, 5k, 50k,right, and all those are valid
price points, but the video isdifferent.
So I have to ask them.
You know the qualifyingquestions and if I'm still not
getting anywhere, I willgenuinely just pull out the iPad

(01:15:13):
and I love iPad, for, by theway, if we're doing this because
the screen quality is great,it's easy to pull up videos I'll
go.
Okay, let me show you a few.
So here's one we did for 5k.
Here's one we did for 5k.
Now you tell me which one youwant to do and then you know
they go.
Oh, it makes it so easy to youknow, do that good, better, best
, but like with actual video,right, because then they can see

(01:15:36):
what I mean by.
You know, it's the details,it's the effort that went into
the lighting and all that, andif they perceive it, they
perceive it generally.
You know they'll go with themiddle option.
That's just how people's brainswork and that's good for us too
, because that's decent quality,without you know too low.
But if some people will go, no,I'll just take the cheapest and
that's what it is.
You know, either way, justthat's the only time I ever show

(01:15:59):
videos.

Outside of that, I don't, I don't think any of my
clients yeah, I never caredabout.
Well, what I do is is I includevideo examples in my proposals
so so that they can same thing.

They can get an idea, yeah, so they can get in
like and like.

I also do something different with my proposal
because, because I think you alot of times you just give like
the flat number.
Yeah, I do pricing breakdownsand and people are different
minds about some people likepricing breakdowns, some people
don't, some clients like them,some clients don't need them.

Uh, you, know tony right level corporate level
media he mentioned you.
I think you two are doing.
I saw his proposal, so here'swhat happened.
So people that watch thatpodcast.
He came in, he mentioned thattoo and he was like, oh yeah,
how he got it from alex and, uh,from you.
And then you guys are the samementor or whatever program that
you join.
And I was so curious because Idon't do that.

(01:16:52):
Uh, now I have learned from youand so so, for people who don't
know um, and this is why youhave these conversations, I
think it was a few years ago wemet for some kind of rental or
something, either way, and I wastalking about it and I
immediately went in and you knowI'm kind of very much about
like either flat pricing, basedon the conversation we had, or
good, better, best option.

(01:17:12):
Um, if you know, we're stillwearing on options.
But then you mentioned likehaving these options, and you
know, and got my ball rollingand immediately I went in and
I've added hair and makeup andsound, a couple of people that I
want on set, but the first onesto get deleted because the
budget um are hair and makeupand sound, and we both know

(01:17:33):
sound and hair makeup make ourwork look so much better.
Uh, so I've just added on myflat all my proposals now
because it's part of thetemplate.
It just stays there and youwould be amazed how many people
have just checked it and I don'tthink it's that much profit.
We obviously take a cut butit's not like the like so much
because you know people know therates.
Like, I'm not adding that muchto it.

(01:17:53):
Either way, it's added slightlyrevenue in the company, but
every time I bring a dedicatedsound guy or a dedicated hair
and makeup it makes my workbetter and the clients are
always happier because they feelbetter on set.
So that came from you andhaving that conversation.
So I know some of the optionthings work.

But you guys take it to another level with, like
essentially a lot of options tobuild out the proposal right, I
don't put as many options as Iused to when I first like,
because my my mentor is anadvocate of having like
everything under the sun.

So that's what tony's doing, dude I was like
this is a rate which I saw thebenefit.
Let me let me say first say probefore I say I will never do
that.
Uh, like I said, tony spokeabout that, but I saw the whole
thing.
I was like I like the how easyit would be to make a proposal.
You can just just checkeverything.
You get a total.
There is no confusion aboutwhat I should charge for the

(01:18:49):
project.
Great.
But dude, after 10 pages I'mlike this is a lot yeah.

And that's what I, and that's why I started.
I cut out like everything thatwas non-essential because, like
I felt like the proposal wasjust too long and people
wouldn't want to.

And decision fatigue would get there.

And so now my proposal it's I put everything
that I think should be in there.
I don't really include a lot ofextra options for them to check
.
I just I just say like, hey, ifyou want extra days, or if, or
if you want you know this out ofthird, you can adjust the
amounts and you'll see itreflected in the price.

And that makes it easy for them.
Look, this is why I want tohave these conversations,
because I want people to be ableto pick their path.
My advice is don't do that.
My advice is I like flat eithergood, better, best or flat
pricing, and a couple of optionswhich I learned from you and
it's worked great for me andthat's how I recommend it.

(01:19:47):
But I don't want people to justfollow what I'm saying, because
clearly your strategies workedfor you, because I know you've
told me how you've been able toupsell without having to even
upsell, because they canthemselves, like I said, pick
extra days or whatever.
And then Tony, on the otherhand, has said how he's able to,
has been able to sell.
You know expensive projectsbecause they can go in, they can
be like oh, I want to add this.

(01:20:07):
Add this because you know it'sa whole rate menu card and you
don't know what they're going topick if you don't offer them.
So there's three differentstrategies.
Well, I would say twostrategies, and yours isn't.
You found yourself the bestmiddle ground and I want people
to be able to pick theirstrategy.
I I would love to have adefinitive answer on this, but I
don't well, it's, it's whateverworks for you yeah, like when

(01:20:29):
it comes to pricing and and howto sell projects.

um, there, there is no one absolutely right way like
they.
There's many ways that work andyou got to find a way that
you're comfortable with, wherethat helps you feel confident in
your pricing, because that'sanother part.
Like you got to be confident inyour pricing, um, and so the,
the way that I've developed todo it and like the whole

(01:20:55):
structure-based pricing andeverything, it just helped me be
more confident in saying whatthe prices were.
Because back when I used to domore like what you do and you
just give them a flat number oryou know, which a lot of people
call like value-based pricing, Iwas always undervaluing myself.
But now when I go in and I justbecause I have certain pieces

(01:21:18):
of it that are just set, and Ijust go in and it's like, well,
the project should take thismany days with this many hours
and, oh, they're going to needthis.
They're well, the projectshould take this many days with
this many hours and, oh, they'regoing to need this, they're
going to need that, they wantthis many pieces of content.
When I get to that number, itmakes sense to me and I'm
confident in saying it becauseit's like, yeah, these are all
the pieces that add up.

(01:21:40):
And so that's what it should be.
And I even think, even at wheremy prices are at right now, I
honestly think they shouldprobably be higher, but I
haven't nailed down yet how toreliably get those clients that
are comfortable with thoseprices.
And that's another part is likewhatever price point you have,

(01:22:01):
there's a client out there thatcan pay that and will pay that,
and it's no problem for them topay that.
But you've got to figure outwho those clients are and you've
got to figure out how to get infront of those clients and and
and when you can do that.
When you've figured out thosetwo things, then you can get the
money you want with the amountof work that you want, and

(01:22:22):
you're good.
But if, but if you can't figureout how to get in front of the
clients that are comfortablewith with the amount of work
that you want, and you're good.

But if, but if you can't figure out how to get in
front of the clients that arecomfortable with those prices,
well then you got a problemExactly, and, like you said
earlier, I think the best thingis we're all salespeople,
whether we want to be, you know,or we don't want to be like me,
because I'd rather be on set,but at the same time do I want
to be on set.

(01:22:45):
You know, we all have a minimumthat we're happy with, and my
whole thing is I'm not going tobe on set if I'm not going to
give it my 100 percent, and I'mnot going to give it my 100
percent if I'm not making thisminimum Simple as that, so I
just don't even want to take itbecause my clients don't deserve
me and anything but my 100%.
And now that brings a good topicand I want to talk about it.

(01:23:08):
Here's my opinion.
I would love to hear yoursafter that.
But how to price?
Because I think a lot of peoplego with like how to come up
with the day rate.
They hear somebody else's dayrate and say, okay, well, that
must be the right day rate andthat's not true.
Like don't again look for otherpeople for advice.
But I don't again look forother people for advice.
But I don't think anyone shouldjust copy other person 100%

(01:23:28):
because you don't know theirskill level, their kit, what
they're bringing.
What you should do is pick anumber that you're happy, like,
hey, here's my bare minimum thatmakes me happy to leave home.
I'm going to give it my 100% orwhatever.
I'm going to do it, my hundredpercent or whatever.

(01:23:51):
I'm going to do good job on set.
And then, once you believe itright because you chose the
number right, you should believeit otherwise.
Keep working on the number.
Then say it confidently this ismy rate and most people will
either then hire you or not.
And if you're getting 58 to 80.
Yes, then you're good if you'regetting 100 yes.

If you're getting 50 80 yes, you might need to take
your rate higher though that'swhat I'm saying.

If you're getting a 50 to 80 percent, yeah, oh
well, let's say okay.
If you're getting most peopleto say yes, up your rate please,
and if you're getting nobody,or very little people to say yes
, then lower your rate.
And I think market dictates atthe end of the day.
Yeah, you gotta you gotta dosome research.

Um, now, you shouldn't all, you shouldn't
wholesale base what you chargeon what other people charge,
because, like you said, peoplehave different equipment,
they've got different experience, they they've got different
areas of specialty, uh all thosethings.
But you should be somewhere inthe middle yeah, yeah,
especially start.

Well, I think it gives you a reference point to
start.

If you're just starting out so this is to my
people who are just starting outdo not try to charge the
highest day rate that you'veheard of in your vicinity,
because you do not deserve it.
You don't have the body of workto back it up, you don't have
the clientele, like you don'thave the history.
Don't go out and try to swingfor the stars your first day
trying to get on set like ityou're setting yourself because
the thing is, with certainlevels of money become come

(01:25:15):
certain levels of expectation.
So if you're out here, um, youknow, charging a 1500 day rate,
that comes with500 day rate.
That comes with $1,500 day rateexpectations.
If you're out here charging$250, the expectations are a lot
less.
Now also your quality of clientmay be a lot less, because I

(01:25:36):
think, if they're trying to hirea videographer or anybody in
the production world for $250,world for 250, it unless you're
just like, unless you're justlike an assistant or um what's,
what's the pa?

yeah, just like a pa like for a pa.
Maybe 250 for a day is okay.
Yeah, you're a grip, butanybody who's like a specialist.

if they're trying to hire you for 250, you might not
have the best experience withthat client Exactly.

But if that's where you are at, then that's
okay too, but if you're firststarting out, you may.

And the other thing is, if you're just starting out
and they know you're juststarting out you may have to
charge some 250, 350 jobs justto get a job.
But then you knock those jobsout of the park, you do the best
job that you can so that you'vegot great looking material to
show to to future clients,future potential clients, so

(01:26:36):
that you can start charging 500,750, a thousand, whatever it is
, and remember you're gettingmore value out of it.

a lot of people think that the value is just the
client.
So client paid you $250, $350.
You made them a silly orwhatever the video they wanted.
Right, clearly not the bestwork, but you're improving your
skills because, remember, thevalue you're getting is
experience for yourself, becausewhen you go to that $1,500
day-to-day job, you know theexpectations need to be matched.

(01:27:05):
And where are you going to getthem?
Either by either being on otherpeople's set or by doing better
work for yourself and learningthrough either YouTube,
university or wherever.
But the other thing I wantpeople to know is just know that
your rate when you get hired bydirect clients and by
production companies not thesame thing.

And you have to be willing to understand that.

I've had so many people go oh yeah, my rate is
$1,500.
And I'm like that's great,nothing wrong with your rate,
but like what's your rate for me?
Because I have to go bill myclient $1,500.
Now what am I, you know?
So what I'm saying is whenyou're working with a producer,
we have costs to do payroll orto do taxes and to do credit
card fees and other paymentprocesses.

Client acquisition.

Client acquisition fees.
Because when you're workingwith someone like we have
meetings and other stuff pointis, when I work for myself, I
work a lot more but I chargemore.
When Alex says, bipple, I wantto hire you, then all I'm doing
is showing up with maybe thegear or without the gear, and
then you know, I do the job andI go home and I get paid.
I don't have to worry aboutwhen the payment is coming

(01:28:07):
through, what the issues are.
So you have to understand Alexis going to make a cut off
whatever he pays me.
So whatever he can charge theclient he's going to give me.
Again, everyone has their ownrates, but I typically go 80% or
something like that.
Other person may do differentrate.
Point is.
Point is just know that youhave to cut your rates a little
bit because the other person hasother costs that they need to

(01:28:27):
be able to, uh, to make up, andthat's okay.

Like you should do the same thing when you bring
other people in right because,like one thing that you should
do when you're bringing otherpeople in, especially when
you're starting out, tell themwhat you can pay them like don't
, don't ask people, what's theirrate, say, hey, I need somebody
to do this, this is what I canpay, because then you don't have
to waste time with that, thatwhole back and forth of, oh well

(01:28:52):
, I charged a thousand bucks.
Okay, what's your price for me,like?
no, it's like hey, I need anassistant on this.
I could pay 500 bucks for theday.
Do you want to do it?

exactly makes it very easy.
That's very smart, alex.
Uh just cut through the wholechase and uh, but I'm saying, be
willing.
I've had people go.
Same thing now.
Let me tell one experience Ihad, uh.
So I had somebody that I hired,you know, 250, 350, 450, those
type of ranges, uh for the day.
And then I go a couple monthsnot hiring them, which I'm great

(01:29:22):
they're learning and then theygo, oh, my rate is 1500 now.
Because I called them back andI was like, hey, you want to
come help out and be anassistant, just like you did on,
or be a second cam out,whatever, and they go, oh, my
rate is 1500.
Now I'm like, okay, Iunderstand upping your rate, but
your rate didn't go from 400 to1500 in two months.
I know your skill level didn'tjump that high, so also be

(01:29:44):
reasonable with your jumps.
I'm like, if clients will payyou, absolutely Again your
clients who are paying you.
That's fine, but I know yourskill level because I worked
with you many, many times.
Your skill level just didn't upa thousand bucks in two months.
So what I'm also saying is bereasonable, don't break bridges.
Which is fine.

(01:30:04):
I was like, hey, if you'regetting work, perfect, hang up,
call the next person on mynetwork, because you know I hire
people all the time, even at$2,500 a day rates, but the jobs
have to, you know what I'msaying is yeah, exactly.
And then I hire grips and PAs at$2,250 a day.
So you know there's going to be, and everything in between.
And so the job dependent andthe experience dependent.

(01:30:26):
So when I'm hiring people atlocal, that low level, I've
asked them I'm like, what areyou good at?
Oh, I know how to set up aC-stand, but I don't know how to
set up light.
Great, I know that.
Now and I'll work within thatlimitation because you're at
that low rate, I'm okay, you'renot knowing everything as I know
up front.
Then I'm going to put somebodywho knows how to set up the
light with somebody who knowshow to set up the stand, for
example.
You guys are good, you got yourthing.

(01:30:48):
I'm happy because you knowthat's the expectation for the
job.
Um, or you're brand new and Ilike your vibe.
I'm like, okay, well, there'sunpaid but you can come do bts
or whatever, right, so I'mgetting something out of it.
But I'm not like takingadvantage of you by putting you
to work so everyone gains andyou learn by being on the set.
So, with what the job is, nowI've had, obviously we're

(01:31:11):
filming, a commercial high-endclient.
Hey, you're coming with youralexa package.
Obviously here's 2500 bucks.
You know that's your rate andI'm happy to pay it.
I say what's your rate?
2500?
There you go to me.
It was worth it because,considering thinking about the
lens and the rent, the camerapackage rental, I'm end up
paying 25, 1500 anyway becauseI'm counting thousand as a

(01:31:32):
rental and I like that's a verygood rate, right.
So I'm saying there's alsocontext.
Plus I'm like oh, you've beenon bigger sets, you know it's a
great fit, so you know what Imean.
Like you have to balance it out.
What do you think right?

Yeah, I think you're perfectly right've always went
out with the telling people whatI can pay, and sometimes
there's some pushback in it, ornot pushback, I'll say.
But they'll say, oh well, Iusually work for this, and it's
like you have to think OK well,how much do I really want this
specific person?
Am I willing to pay that extra?

(01:32:09):
You know, like I don't hire aton of different people.
Usually my go to's are, youknow, I, I don't hire a ton of
different people.
Um, usually my go-to's are, youknow, ben quentin, um, and then
, like I'll hit people in thegroup to see if I could find
somebody, uh, but even adam hascome work for you.

Look at that adam, adam, because because I needed
a.

I needed a drone guy and adam had drone skills and
had a good drone.
And I mean, like I don't wantto say what, I hired Adam for
because he would probably be madat me, but he did me a favor.
I fully know that Adam did me afavor, that day.
I think he just wasn't busy.

No, it's the same thing.
Like I've done that for him too, I want people to know and
that's where the relationshipcomes in, as long you know, if
you need help or if, like, forexample, there's a project that
adam needed help with um and heneeded like um, like a gaffer.
I would call it the.
We don't have defined roles andyou know corporate work, but um
, essentially, and I was freethat day and I was like you know

(01:33:06):
, buddy, like this isn't my rate, obviously, but I'm happy to
just hang out with you, so let'sjust do it.
And then you know, same thinghe did, and it's not one way.
Then I needed a project.
I was stuck in some airport,some other city doing a project,
and then I was like, hey, Ineed help, this isn't your rate,
but here's what I need.
I need you to bring a tripodand you know whatever I needed

(01:33:27):
and I will have this much of mygear there and this many people.
Can you come in and help?
Plus, I'd like you to lead,because I know you can run a
team, and he was happy to do it.
Obviously not remotely close toyou know what I mean.
Right, same thing.
It's just like we trust.
And then I had you lead lastyear I think it was that live
streaming event thing, but itwas like, look, I'm not going to
be there um day one, I need youto.

(01:33:47):
You know, you're going to haveyour cam up and you it's a small
team I mean I had like 11 orwhatever people there but your
team because you were imag uh,it was you in a cam op and I was
like, look, you know here'sequipment, go do it.
And plus, you had your cameras.
I was like, so you're gonnaneed to bring your cameras here,
your equipment, and go run it.
And I trust you you ran it.
Life is good, clients happy.

(01:34:08):
Like can't complain, I didn'teven have to be there and
obviously, um, that takes sometrust building yeah and you're
doing me a favor.
Plus, I'm also giving you somuch of my gear.
It's my trust that you knowyou're not gonna break my gear.
And then, uh, you have trustthat you know you're willing to
um work at a rate that'sprobably lower than what you
would charge if you were doingit for yourself.
You know that's how it is.

We have right, but it's the thing.
I just had to show up and dothe thing.
I didn't have to go to meetings, I didn't have to try to chase
a client.
I didn't have to do none ofthat.

All the planning, yeah, you just handle it.
But that's what I'm saying.
But what I'm trying to get tois building this network and
helping each other out.
I think is what makes all of uselevate our brands and levels
and quality and charge more.
But we can only do that when wehave friends who understand the
business.
See, for me it's easier to hirepeople like you Adam, emmanuel,

(01:34:58):
all the people I've had on thepodcast to be real Ben, because
Ben was there too.
I think yeah, because I'm like,these people get it, like they
understand the business side ofit.
They understand what I'mcharging the client, what I can
pay, and, plus, you're happybecause you know, like I said,
some people I asked I think youwere one of the people where I
asked what you could do it for.
But with ben I was like, look,I don't even want to know what
your rate is.

(01:35:18):
This is what I can pay.
You know, can you come?
Because you know his job wasjust interviewing people, right?
He and I was like, look, I mean, you know, I have somebody like
alex running the imac.
I need somebody running thisside of the team.
Can you come?
You're not really touching thecamera.
You can do some b-roll for me,and he did.
But I was like rest is just runthe interview set right and

(01:35:40):
that's your set.
But like, come on, like youdon't have to actually do much
other than ask questions and ifyou think about it.
But either way, I justpresented it like what I needed
him to do.
Here's the rate and he washappy to take it because you
know, it's like you said, it'spretty decent money for, if you
think about it, uh, for notbringing any equipment showing
up asking a bunch of questionsat a good event.
But at the end I'm saying theevent went great because I had

(01:36:02):
people I trust there, you know,at rates where they were happy.

But then I was happy because I'm making a cut on
everyone, right, and so I'mmaking good money, and that's
another thing like don't thinkthat you shouldn't make a cut on
everyone yeah, and you have to,you're if you're a puppet,
mastering the thing and beingthe brain behind it, and you're
you've got the client, you'replanning it all out like you
deserve that money yeah, youdeserve that money and I think
that's another thing.

(01:36:26):
That that's why a lot of peoplestay small.
They don't hire crews isbecause they're not comfortable
with that or they think thatthey don't even think that they
can hire or that they don't eventhink that they can take a cut
off of.
They just pay the person theday rate and that's exactly what
they charge to the client.
They're not putting anything ontop of that.
It's like no, you should bemaking a cut off everything you

(01:36:47):
provide.

Exactly and because at the end of the day,
look, I had like 30, 35 grand inline that day.
I can't risk it with strangers.
I can only risk it with friends, people I trust, people I know
and I am not going to plus, I'mnot there physically, I cannot
fix anything.
Biggest thing we do is problemsolve.
I don't know what you're goingto run into, what issues with, I

(01:37:09):
think audio.
You guys had issue with thepeople doing audio that day.
There's something.
Who knows what the issues aregoing to be, what the problems
are going to be?
But at the end this is a higherlevel gig, you know, because
they're paying 30, 35 grand fortotal, for all the services,
because it wasn't just one thinglike we're doing interviews,
we're doing, uh, the imag, we'realso doing recap video.

(01:37:29):
We're doing a bunch of things.
Point is, if they're payingthat level of pricing, they
expect premium right, and thenon our side I expect things to
go without hiccup.
I don't want my team to be likethey're they had that audio
issue, you know uh to to haveany issues in in the um, in the
work.
Point is, uh, and I only trust,uh, you know people that I know

(01:37:50):
who'll do a good job and, likeI said, if they're happy to come
help out, make a good, you knowday rate um.

And then I'm happy that I executed it without even
being there at a level where theclient was happy, and that is
such a good feeling like you,you guys, a lot of you don't
know the feeling of having aproject happen without you being
there, like that, is one of thebest feelings and that's, and,
honestly, that's when you aretruly starting to build a

(01:38:16):
business, when you can executeprojects without you being there
.
That is when you are startingto build a business that can and
here's the cherry on the- cake.

I was at a different gig making money, so
you know what I mean like you'relike double dipping, you're
making good, like I'm like, oh,I'm making money here and I'm
making money there.
I'm not even there and to methe best feeling is that, like
what you mentioned, justprojects happen without you.
But then here's what I love.
I'm obsessive.
So, believe it or not, I hadthis chart where I planned out

(01:38:49):
where everyone was going to sit,what everyone's going to do,
where the interview was going tobe.
So, before, because you know Ihad to do site visits and
everything I had like the wholething planned out.
But remember, I'm sendingpeople essentially blind because
you guys don't show up untilday one.
And then to look at footage,because I sent a producer in, I
sent Julie as the producer and Itrust her and I was like OK, so
you're my eyes, you know.

(01:39:15):
You know I need to see footageand then to see exactly being
executed, how I planned out.
Is this such a I don't know afulfilling feeling?
right because at the end of theday, I didn't just call you and
ben and I just said go do thisright.
I gave you the tools, I gaveben the tools that you guys
needed to execute, like you said.
You had to just show up, set itup, get it running right, um so
to to plan it and then to forit to happen in real life

(01:39:36):
without you being there is justsuch a good feeling.
And when you see the biggerpicture I'm seeing this wide
shots from a phone, right Cellphone footage and everyone's
where they need to be theinterview set looks like that.
The IMAX looks like how itneeds to look.
The B-roll for the for therecap video is going exactly how
I wanted the presence to be ofthe camera operators.

(01:39:57):
I'm like this is incrediblebecause and while I'm filming,
remember I'm doingmy thingyeah, I'm already filming and
then I'm looking at these andI'm like, okay, this is perfect
execution.
Great, I had no feedback.
I think I like got one call orwhatever that day, like to put
about some question, but youguys everyone I'm saying
executed perfectly.
And that's just one of the gigs.
We did that multiple times lastyear and I was like this is the

(01:40:20):
best feeling in the world and,uh, I wouldn't trade it for
anything.
But now it's not for everyonebecause, like I say, you have to
put your trust in, you have tohire the right people and it's
also a skill set that you got todevelop.

Um, that's another thing that I had to learn over
the over the years and and likeI, I haven't been hiring people
and putting people on gigs andstuff forever.
It's only been the last fewyears.
It was like I got a really bigclient in 2021.
I want to say, um, they hiredme to do a recruiting video for

(01:40:50):
their company and and they andthey and they also hired me to
do some other stuff, butbasically it was like a three
month contract $30,000.
And when I got that, I was likeokay, I got to start hiring help
, like because I knew that itwas big enough that, like I
couldn't do everything myself,or that it would be way too much

(01:41:11):
work for me to try to doeverything myself, and so I was
just like, okay, I got to getused to this.
You have to get used to hiringpeople, because for some folks
who aren't used to it it's goingto feel weird, it may even feel
like bad, it might be anxietyinducing, to start handing that
money to other people.
But now it's to the point where, like I don't care about paying

(01:41:33):
somebody else, like I want tobe able to pay somebody else, I
want it to be built into thebudget of the project that I can
pay other people to do the shit, so I don't have to exactly,
and that's how you level up.

Because the truth is look, you have 24 hours,
seven days a week.
What?
52 weeks in a year?
That's all the time you have.
Can you go out, get projects,shoot, edit, market, do
everything, client meetingsyourself, but then you have a
ceiling right and that ceilingcan never be crossed.
You can never become a realbusiness because you're doing

(01:42:06):
everything.
The only way you can grow is tolook at the bigger picture.
Realize what you're good atright is to look at the bigger
picture.
Realize what you're good atright, do what you're good at
and then delegate or hire peopleto do stuff you're not good at.
I don't know how to doaccounting or taxes.
You know you hire the people todo that right.

And then, because you can spend hours and hours on
TurboTax and figure it out, butthat hours and hours could be
better spent on sales or videoRight, and there's probably a
bunch of nuanced stuff thatyou'll miss and you'll end up
paying the government more moneythan you should or not being
able to keep as much money asyou should.

And you'd rather just hire an expert and let them
deal with it, and saves youtime to actually work on things
that you're good at.

And I think that's the biggest lesson to, if anyone
wants to go from individualmaking a limit of whatever the
ceiling is for you and, likeonce again, it's not for
everybody but I'll tell you,like the the, the most, the the
least amount of stress I had ona project last year was this

(01:43:08):
project where, um, this companyhired me on a tight timeline.
It was a nonprofit.
They needed a video tointroduce their CEO at their
annual conference.
But they wanted to interviewshareholders in multiple cities
and they needed it done.
And basically from the firstmeeting I had a month to get it

(01:43:30):
done and they were like, yeah,we're just not sure like how
it's gonna work with like flyingyou out to, to interviews, and
I'm like we don't gotta do thatyeah and and so I got, I used
some of my connections, I usedthe internet, I hired crews in
the different cities where theyneeded to get the interviews

(01:43:51):
done, because it was just to, itwas just to interview with each
of these people.
I didn't need no B roll, Ididn't need anything else, and
so, like I figured out what's aprice that I think I can get
this done at in each of thesecities you know how many cities
is it?
Blah, blah, blah.
And even though you would think, with that month time cause

(01:44:14):
that was a month to shoot it,edit it and turn it in and you
would think that would be reallystressful because, like the
first couple of weeks was justlike the plannings and logistics
of everything, it was the leaststressful project that I had
that year because all I had, allI had to do, was be on those
meetings.
Then I, because I had to do wasbe on those meetings, then I,

(01:44:39):
because I hired you know I did areally good job of vetting
people that I hired um, I showedup on zoom to interview those
people.

They sent me the footage and and I had them like
input the camera signal intozoom so I could verify it was
yeah, remote produceressentially.
You were the remote produceressentially.

And then I hired a good editor, who I handed
because I knew the type of videoit was.
It's the type of video that Ioverthink when it comes to
editing and I'm like, if I haveto edit this, I'm going to hold
up the process.
And so I hired a good editor.
I handed him all the footage.
I probably over communicatedwhat it was supposed to be Like.

(01:45:16):
I had a whole info board that Iwrote out and, you know, gave
him stock footage that theyprovided plus, gave him access
to my stock footage and then allthat type of stuff, and it was
just like, like dude, he had thefirst edit turned around in
like three days or four days orsomething, which would not have
been the case if I did it.

(01:45:37):
That's so incredible and he didsuch a good job, like, and it
was just like, and it was justlike at the end of it I felt I
almost felt like I didn't doanything.
Yeah, and it was, it was like a10 grand project or 11 grand
project and like I felt like Ialmost didn't do it.
I did do work, yeah, and I Ieven went to one of the
interviews because I have familyout in dc, which was one of the

(01:45:58):
cities where they neededinterviews.
So I so like I actually usedfunds from the project to go
visit family look at that, hey,why not?
because I justified it by likewell, a ticket's not that much
to dc from orlando, and likeI'll actually show up boots on
the ground for this one shootwhich allowed me to meet, uh,
the lady who hired me from thecompany because she was the

(01:46:18):
marketing director.
So I actually got to meet andmake nice with the marketing
director, so on that front itwas worth it yeah, um.

No, that's incredible.
I remember talking to you aboutthat gig and I was like that's
exactly where you level, likenot, you're already level, but
people level up because here'sthe truth you make the most
amount of money and your bestwork when you're the puppet
master.
That's just how it is, or youare completely the other way.
You can make good work, maybenot.
The best money is when you are,uh, just a dp, so you can be,

(01:46:46):
or whatever certain one task,but then you can do it if you're
super specialized yeah, thenyou can focus on that one task.
But in general me and Adamtalked about this too he was
able to level up his productioncompany because he was able to
bring in other people like meand David and other people to be
able to then be that puppetmaster.
Not that he always wants to dothat, but that's just how you

(01:47:09):
can take more projects.

That's how you get bigger projects.
You can take more projects.
That's how you get biggerprojects.
Or even it may not be that theproject is bigger but that you
can justify having a higherprice to people who otherwise
might not understand.
Or you hire a company and oneperson rolls in to take care of

(01:47:33):
your project, or three peopleroll in, or four people roll in,
or five or ten people, likewhen multiple people have to
roll in to do Because whenyou're the client and somebody
wants to charge you ten grand todo one video, but one guy walks
in the door, you might besitting there like is this

(01:47:54):
really supposed to cost 10 grand?
And it could be 10 grand worthof work?
Exactly, but if one guy shows upto do the work, you're kind of
like, did we really should wehave paid this much money?
But when a team rolls in thedoor, then it's like, oh, okay.
And the team rolls in with allthe equipment that a team can
bring and set up quickly and getto work, then it's like, oh

(01:48:16):
okay, I understand why this is$10,000.

Exactly there you go, and that's man.
You couldn't have said itbetter.
Now I want to go back, becausewe've already been talking for
quite some time, but I want totalk that specific gig, because
that's the type of gigs peoplewant to get.

So first tell me, how did you find that gig?
Uh, the gig found me.
It was an old client of minewho had been hired by this
non-profit as their likedirector of operations.
She heard they wanted to dothis video.
She recommended me because Ihad produced her podcast.
I'd helped her with the brandvideo for her podcast and we we
had a great relationship.
We had been.
We like she's not doing herproject, her podcast anymore
because she got busy with familyand stuff like that.
So it got.

(01:49:00):
It got to be where she couldn'thandle the workload of doing the
podcast, even though I wasdoing all the technical stuff um
, but either way, she hadalready worked with you she had
a good, great experience with me.
She pretty much pre-sold themon me.
She was like I know him, I'veworked with him for years.
He's great.

You should talk best clients, because now you
don't have to sell anything butfigure out the solution.
So, uh, how did you do avirtual meeting, I'm guessing.
So how did that go?
And how did you price come tothe price that you did, and what
was the price?

you can give us rough numbers uh, original price
was supposed to be 15 grand.
It came down to like 10 or 11grand because they cut some of
the interviews out.

Okay, and how many interviews did it end up being?

it ended up being.
I want to say it was fourinterviews that my crew shot.
There was supposed to be afifth interview that they shot,
but that person ended up saying,hey, my schedule is too tight,
I'll just have the people thevideo people that work at my
company shoot it and we'll sendit to you, okay.

So you, you shot four and one came from them and
you just had to cut the fiveinto a video, right with stock
footage and stuff.
Okay, perfect, to price it outwhen you're in the meeting, did
you already give the price, oryou said no, I'll send you a
quote after I had to send them aquote after I had to figure it
out.
So and then for you to figure itout, did you use your pricing
sheet or you first had to go onproduction up and find these

(01:50:19):
crews first?
How did you do the number first?

so I came up, so I came up with the.
The price, basically how I didit was there was pre-production
fees, um, there was mediastorage fees, there was fees for
the editing and then there wasa price per shoot, um, because

(01:50:43):
they were having me do multipleshoots and each sit in these
different cities.
And so, when it came to theprice per shoot, I first looked
at it is if I was actually goingto do this, if I was actually
going to shoot this in orlando,what would I charge somebody to
shoot this in orlando?
Um, and I came up with thatnumber and because I and?

(01:51:06):
And then I said, all right,since I'm actually not going to,
be there I'm going to tack on avirtual producer fee because,
I'm because I'm, because I'm uhdialing in, I'm conducting the
interview for them, making sureit all goes smoothly, um.
And then I said, okay, out ofwhat I would want to charge for
this shoot, what can I?
What do?

(01:51:26):
What can I pay somebody forthis one hour shoot, because
it's pretty much, or?
it, it was like two hours, likean hour to set up, half hour to
do the interview, half hour tobreak down.
What can I pay somebody forthis two hours of work that
they're not going to feelinsulted, and I can get somebody
who's decent.
And so then I decided on thatnumber so that I could see what

(01:51:49):
I would actually make off of theproject.
Oh, and I had to price out whatI was going to pay an editor.
Okay, so I had to get thenumber.
I had to know what I waswilling to pay per shoot, what I
was willing to pay an editor,and then how much money I could
make off all these things.
And then so that's pretty good.

You did some calculation.
Came out with 11 K.
You sent the proposal.

It was it was 15k because I was supposed to.
Originally I was supposed to doseven interviews, okay.
Three of those went away, okay,and then, and so when I had,
when we had agreed on it, whenthey had seen the proposal, they
were like they knew that thatsome of the interviews because
they still had to book everybodyfor the interviews, and that
was another thing, that wasanother stipulation I had to
make.
It's like y'all have to bookthese things, y'all have to,

(01:52:31):
y'all have to book the, thepeople.
You have to arrange the place.
Yeah, I just.
So all I have to do is tell mycrews when to show up.
Yeah, like because if I have todo all that extra work, if I,
if I have to contact them and doall this stuff because I don't
know none of these people, one,they're not going to take me as
serious because they're not you,yeah, and two, that's a whole
lot of extra work on my plate.
I only got a month.
I can't do that yeah, exactly,and so.

(01:52:52):
So those were stipulations thatI had to make um which they were
fine with.

So once they made the changes, it was 11k they
signed.
Did you take 50 deposit or allof it up front?

uh, 50, 50.
I usually what's your andwhat's your other 50?

when do they pay that?
When they get the delivery?
When they approve thedeliverable okay, so they have
to prove it.
Then they get the file yeahokay, perfect, so time contract
sign.
You got the thing you I'mguessing you.
Where do you find these people?
Production hub and your network, some of them.

One was in my network, like I went to my
network first because I knewthat I was most likely to get
people who would agree to theprice that I wanted, because I
got some.
I got some good deal, I gotsome not nice emails from people
on Production Hub telling methat my rate that I was offering
was way too low.

Oh, you were the other side of it.
It's so funny here we'retelling people to charge more,
but you're offering low money.
Well, because?

like we said, I knew it wasn't going to be more than
two hours of work and all theyhad to do was show up and shoot
it and send me the file.
So that's why.

And that's okay.
You know right, look, when youbecome a producer, there's gonna
be somebody there's gonna besomebody who will agree to it at
that price.

Um, because even though I had a couple of not
nice emails from you, know old,grizzled veterans telling me
that you're ruining the marketand this is what I would charge
to do this.
Yeah, that's what you wouldcharge if you were going to
wreck the client.
I'm not the end client yeah, youhave to make your profit, so I
get that um but I got so manyemails from people willing to do

(01:54:25):
it, even when I said it at aprice where I was like I don't
know if somebody's going to bewilling to take it at this price
and I got really good people atthat price, like I got people
that I thought stopundercharging people like stop
it.
I got, I got people who who's.
When I saw their work Icouldn't believe that they were

(01:54:48):
agreeing to do my job for theprice that I was paying because
they don't have the businessskills.

They're probably lacking work because they're
talented, Like a lot of peoplein this industry.
You know, I'm guessing again,but most likely the people I
come across who are like thatyeah, they're very talented, but
they don't have the businessskills to know what to charge,
which is good for you whenyou're a producer, but not good,
you know, when you're like amentor or a friend, Right?

And it may just have been.
It may have been a bender casewhere it's like, oh, we don't
got nothing to do that day.
Let me make an extra, howevermany dollars.

Okay, and which is what?

I kind of think I got.
I think, because it was so,because, like and I specified it
in the job I'm like this jobwill take you two hours and I
think that was why, like if itwas going to be a half day or a
full day like definitelywouldn't have got these people
at that price exactly, butbecause it was like, yeah, it's
going to take you two hours.

It's one interview , there's no b-roll what type of
cameras did they use?

um, most of them were shooting with sony's.
Okay, one person shot with oneperson shot with reds, which I
was like why do you want to dothis job with reds?

I guess it's just what he has.
Yeah, exactly, most likely.

Yeah, that's yeah like like because when and that
was the guy in dc did afantastic job like he, even he
even color graded the footagefor me.

Um, what did you pay him?
Come on, we can, we can know750 look at that 750 showed up
in the reds and color graded thefootage, which is why I'm
telling you don't invest in Ididn't.

It's not worth it.
I didn't even ask him to.
He offered to yeah, um, and I'mglad he did because, like I,
because he sent me the rawfootage himself and I tried to
color grade it and it.

Yeah, red footage is not the easiest.
I mean, it's really goodbecause you can manipulate it,
but if you don't know whatyou're doing, it's just time
consuming and I've used redfootage before and gotten good
results but, that time, for somereason, I just I was not on
point that day, like because Itried to color grade it no, no,
that's and that's okay, whichcamera?

which red was it uh?

older or newer?
Was it dsmc3 or?

I think it was one of the newer joints, the little
komodos.

Yeah, which is pretty good, I mean camera yeah,
so like yeah, but what?

yeah, it did not go well when I tried to color grade
it and I was like so he, he's,you know, did the whole rec 709
on it and I was like.

Thank you yeah, no , and that's what I'm saying.
That's great, obviously goodfor you to get people at 750,
because I know, uh, that that'slower than what rate people
would think.
But hey, at the end day thosepeople were happy.

But you gotta think 750 for two hours of work.

Yeah, it's not pretty good yeah, especially
when all they're doing singlecamera.
I'm guessing over there twocameras it was two camera
interview and they come, set upthe interview film, give you the
file they leave.
Basically is the is the premiseand you know.
So you did four of those At$750, it popped to what $3,000?
.
Then what's your editingexpense on that $500.

(01:57:42):
$500.
So you spent $3,500.
So your profit?

is what I spent a little bit more.
One guy got a little bit extrabecause they moved the location
of the interview on him and Iwas like hey bro, I'll like.
Okay, it was like I know yougot to travel to do this.
Like I know you got to travelfarther than you originally
thought to do this, I'll pay youa little extra so, but you made
still sixty five hundred seventhousand dollars, something like
that.

Yeah, that's pretty good.

I mean, come on, people, eleven grand project,
four editing, and you were ableto pull a 6,500 to 7 grand
project and the thing is becauseof the way that I priced it
where it was like and where Iwas willing to, because I had
priced it like per shoot percity, because that gave them.

(01:58:36):
I think the reason I was ableto land the project, or part of
the reason I was able to landthe project, is because when we
discussed the proposal, theywere like, well, if we don't
shoot all the interviews, willthe price come down?
And I was like, yeah, the pricewill like the price will adjust
.

They were clearly price sensitive.
But at the end of the day, look, I think it comes down to
execution, because you couldhave done that two different
ways, right.
You could have done that twodifferent ways, right.
You could have flown to allthese cities.
You could have filmed themyourself.
He's sure you save money on thethe money that you paid, but
now you have travel like I madeit clear to them that they were
saving money.

It was like I was like, yeah, if, if you try to
fly me to these cities, onewe're not gonna like I'm gonna
be out of pocket for a day everytime that I fly, um, where
you're not gonna be able tocontact me, you're not, you're
not gonna know what's going on,and then, like it's gonna cost
you it like if they had tried tofly, it would have been 20
grand plus yeah, because youhave to pay travel day, you have
to pay production.

Well, whether you charge them or not, indirectly,
you know you are charging themyeah so travel day, then
production day, uh, maybe evenanother travel.
Well, probably not, because twohours shoot, you could fly back
the same day.
But then also, um, you have, um, you save on the production
cost, but now you may need anassistant or whatever to bring
with you locally again.
You're still doing that workanyway for this project it's oh

(01:59:44):
yeah, I hired an assistant.

Yeah, so so there's something, so you end up doing
the same it probably would havebeen like 22 to 25 grand if they
had tried to fly me out exactlynow.
The advantage to client nowsome would be like, yes, if the
client could afford it.

It would have been like 22 to 25 grand if they had
tried to fly me out Exactly Now.
The advantage to client.
Now some would be like, yes, ifthe client could afford it, it
would have been better, becausethe video would have been fully
consistent with you know causeyou, it's your footage, it's
everything controlled by you.
But if their budget is 11 grand, then your method is better
because clients get something intheir budget and it still looks
great, cause you know, redfoot.

They were super happy.
They gave me great feedback.

And that's incredible, right, and that's
what I want people to know,because that's the type of gigs
we all want to be doing Becauseyou know just a breakdown of
what you can do, what you cancharge, what you can get away
with Before we go.
I can't believe it's been twohours, man.
We could talk for another tooeasily.

Hey, you know how me and you get yeah.

I know we also say we've had multiples of these
podcasts indirectly, you know ofthe conversations we get.
No, I had to like force you toget in there.
We're like we already startedtalking before we even sat down.
And it was like already, youknow, game on.
And that's why I love talkingto you, because I think we both
care about our craft but at thesame time we also care about the
business side of it.

(02:00:52):
And it's just so great to havethese conversations because,
like I said, you know you learnfrom each other.
I would have never added I'mtelling it here publicly that
makeup artists, the checkboxes,because you know, to me that was
not right.
But until I talked to you and Ihad to hear that other
perspective, I'm like, yeah, itmakes sense for the client, it
makes sense for me becausethere's zero effort, I just have

(02:01:15):
to do it, and it's not takingaway from the client experience,
like I initially thought.
And, um, you know, it's thingslike that.
I'm just saying havingconversations is how you level
up.
So before we go, I wanted toask you one, uh, one other
question.
Like how are, what are yourcurrently?
And I know you have a formula,obviously, uh, of charging, but
I want people to understand howdo you come up with your rate?
So if somebody calls you,whether it's local or whatever,

(02:01:37):
yeah, so basically my prices, somy production.

Production is where I make the bulk of my money when
I'm doing a project forsomebody, um, and so to come up
with the production rate, I baseit off of a day rate, but it's
I don't charge day rates, soit's a, like you said, it's a
formula, um, so if I was goingto be charging just a straight
day rate to somebody, I'd wantat least 12 50 a day, I believe.

(02:02:02):
Actually it's 2025, it shouldprobably go up to 1500, um,
because it, because and it'sgone.

It's gone up over the years.
Yeah, I'll be right, um, butanyway, yeah, so, but I want to
know that unique structure.
I really liked it the way andyou explained it again.
I don't do it this way, but Iwant people to hear the other
way you start with your day rate.

Whatever your day rate is, just for just for
ease's sake, we'll say the dayrate is a thousand dollars.
So what I charge people to comeout and shoot is I charge them
a base price which will will belike 40% of the day rate.
So that means if it's athousand dollars, that means I'm
not leaving the house for lessthan $400.

(02:02:41):
And that's just for the firsthour of service Plus my
equipment, my basic set ofequipment, not extras, not bells
and whistles, like the basicset of equipment that I would
bring out to minimally be ableto do a video.
That'll be whatever it is foryou, whatever that is for you
Like.
For me that's my, my twocameras, that's a three-point
lighting kit and basic audio.

(02:03:03):
So that's what they get for$400 for one hour.
Then the rest of that thousanddollar day rate gets divided by
seven and that's the hourly ratethat you charge for the rest of
the hours in a day like I baseit on an eight hour day.
I know a lot of filmproductions they base on a 12
hour day or if you're an av,they base things on a 10 hour

(02:03:23):
day.
I just want to do a regular workday, so we gonna we gonna do
eight hours, um, and thendepending on how you want to
charge you, if you go past eighthours on a shoot day, you can
charge time and a half if youwant, or you can just charge the
straight hourly.
Just for simplicity's sake Idon't do time and a half.
I know that's probably amistake, but I'm lazy.

But that's okay, it works.

I'm just being honest, and so that'll be like
the bulk of the production cost.
The way that I have um beenadded on to that is I started
adding pre-production fees,which is like your meetings,
logistics, planning, all thoseother, all those tasks that you
have to do in planning the shoot, which a lot of us forget to

(02:04:10):
charge for, especially whenyou're first starting out.
Most of us are not chargingpre-production.
You need to charge for pre for,especially when you're first
starting out.
Most of us are not chargingpre-production.
You need to charge forpre-production, especially when
you're getting these projectsthat require multiple meetings
and back and forth and lots ofplanning, like you need to be
charging for pre-production andyou need to put a limit on it as
well.
So, like usually, my minimumpre-production fee is $500 and

(02:04:32):
that's for, like, a lightproject, a project that doesn't
really require me to do a wholelot of planning, charge $500.
That's including my clientmeetings, back and forth calls,
emails and stuff, and I saythere's a limit of five hours
that I'm gonna put into this.
Then I also usually charge amedia and storage fee, because

(02:04:52):
if you're like me or you're likebendra or you're like anybody
smart, you hardly ever deleteanything, and so I tell clients
your data is money but I tellclients this fee is for the
memory cards, it's for the harddrives and it guarantees that I
will keep your content for atleast six months.
I don't guarantee anything pastthat.

(02:05:12):
I still have stuff from fiveyears ago but I don't guarantee
it I don't guarantee that.

I said like if somebody pay a premium, if they
want to guarantee right ifsomebody calls me up, I probably
still have it.

Um, and I'm not perfect, there are a couple of
hard drives that have gonemissing in the last.

Follow the three, two, one backup rule.
Look up up if somebody doesn'tknow.
I would highly recommend doingthat.

But I'm not perfect.
I don't have a fancy NAS likeBindra and some folks do, so
there's a couple of hard drivesthat I've had.

We've got to level you up on that Like, hey,
somewhere I can help you If Ican get the revenue to get it.

I will get it.
I've wanted one, let's do it2025 is the year.
There have been in the lastfour or five years.
There are a couple hard drivesthat have gone missing, one hard
drive crashed.
That was a sad day, but most ofthe stuff I've still got it's

(02:06:10):
your company.
You can charge whatever youwant, as long as you can get
them to pay.

Here's the perspective I wanted to quickly
give people.
Look in my way.
I do, like I said, pricingeither here's a price, you know,
boutique price, whatever, onceI figure out the offer and the
solution, or I give if stillunknowns, I'll give them a good,
better, best option.
You know people are going topick better.
That's just typically how itworks.

(02:06:39):
But I love your strategybecause how you explained it to
me.
Once you now start to add, Ilove how you break down, once
you start to add these numbers,you'll realize that you're
rarely charging people 400 bucks.
That's just and again, that wasjust an example anyway.
But the idea is your base rateis low, but nobody's usually
hiring you for one hour, andthen the advantage is you can
then take shoots where you arejust out for an hour or two if
you want to.
But then typically, when youadd a half a day or more, you

(02:07:01):
end up actually making moremoney than you would have had
you just made a half to a fullday rate, because now, once you
add up the formula, it ends upbeing higher.

Your half day rate and the way that you really
start leveling up the the priceis by adding crew members.
Because so I said my base, mybase rate, or my my day rate
that I'm basing everything offof, is 1250.
Or or, for the example, we saida thousand dollars, so your

(02:07:33):
second crew member, now you addanother 90 of a rate.
So instead of so, so instead ofa thousand dollars for two crew
members, the bay, you're basingit off of 1900.
You can do the math whatever 40of 1900 is and it starts to add
up pretty quick that's yourbase rate.

(02:07:55):
So, and then the third personyou're getting.
You're giving them the thirdperson for 80.
You're giving them the fourthperson for 70.
I don't go past.
I don't go past that, like somepeople, when they use the
formula, they, as they addpeople, they keep going down by
10 until they get to 50.
I'm like I'm stopping at 70 I'mcomfortable there.

Let's do that.
No, that's, uh, that'sdefinitely great.
So look at both options,calculate it and see which one
works out better for you.
Um, alex, I would love to bringyou back in season two,
continue this conversation, butthis has been incredible.
Before we go, if you want totell people anything else, or
just share your instagram orwhatever, they can come, follow
you yeah, if you want to followme on Instagram, it's the Alex

(02:08:35):
minor t-h-e-a-l-e-x-m-i-n-o-r.

Also, there's my company.
I am media e-y-e-a-m-m-e-d-i-a.
And then I'm also on LinkedIn,although not very much these
days.
I got to give like that's oneof the things I got to get back
on this year is my social mediagame, because I've got I've got
so much bts footage, cell phonefootage, things that I could use

(02:08:59):
to make content, and I'm justnot.
And that's one of the thingsthat I gotta get.

I gotta get my content game back right well,
you need to go and tell alex onhis all the things he told and
post comments, post more.
You know, maybe we need toencourage you.
I mean, they need to encourageme because I'm bad at it too, so
but I get it.

But yet, yeah, I'm trying to build a pretty nice
business for yourself, so that'sanother thing you.
You don't necessarily need todo all the social media things
to to build a thriving business,but it can help yes, and that's
my goal for this year.

I'm working on it.
I want to post more, be moreactive.
So, uh, just because you know,like you said it, it helps, and
I have ignored that because itit was just not the market that
I was uh tapping into before.
But why not, right?
So, yeah, please, uh encourageboth of us to post more and uh,
hopefully you'll have more stuff, more stuff to see from us.
But otherwise, this has been apleasure, sir.

(02:09:52):
It's always a pleasure talkingto you.
Thank, you for coming and, likeI said, until next time hey,
come back anytime.

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