May 13, 2025 • 16 mins
Amanda Haverstieck is a former big law litigator turned legal writing coach, author, and founder of Writing Law Tutors LLC. After 20 years of writing for high-stakes litigation, she now helps lawyers and law students sharpen their writing skills, build confidence, and communicate more clearly and effectively.
She is the author of Dear 1L: Notes to Nurture a New Legal Writer, a bestselling guide for new law students. Through one-on-one coaching and upcoming courses, Amanda is working to change how legal writing is taught, making it more accessible, supportive, and practical for everyone in the legal profession.
Amanda is also a proud mother of three and brings the same warmth and insight from her personal life into her teaching. Whether you are a junior litigator, a 1L student, or someone preparing to enter law school, Amanda’s work is all about helping you grow into the writer and lawyer you want to become. Visit writinglawtutors.com.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:16):
Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of
Studying Law Around the World. Today, I have the opportunity to
interview Amanda Haverstick. We'll be talking about a few
different things, but Amanda hashad such an incredible career.
She's been a lawyer, She has worked with helping students
with their careers at a university, and she's a book
(00:38):
author. She's a LinkedIn superstar and
so many other things. So thank you so much for joining
us today, Commander. Thank you for taking the time.
You're welcome. And I, as I always say, I think
it looks like kind of good on the outside.
And then when you get off coursefrom my perspective, I'm sort of
trying to still figure out what I'm doing.
(01:00):
So is so thank you for that intro.
Well, thank you for your time. And to start off, I, I'm sure
that most of our listeners are already quite familiar with your
work in the social media and with DRL and so many other good
things you've put out there. But would you mind introducing
yourself to your listeners a little bit and telling us about
your journey? Sure.
(01:21):
I am a former big law lawyer. I worked for about 20 years in
big law. I worked in house for a couple
of those years. I'm a mother to three and I
stopping a lawyer about nine years ago now 8 or 9, and I took
some years off. I have a big gap.
(01:42):
And then COVID happened and I think as a lot of people found
it sort of looked life in the face of you and what are you
doing? And so I was turning 50 and I
just kind of on a whim, someone was like, oh, you really should
do social media marketing, whichI had no idea what was that.
So I just went starting one postat a time back in early, I mean,
(02:06):
September 2021, I guess it was and it really took off And there
was, it was great. I started with a mission to help
really the one out. And I had started my first time
tutoring was earlier in 2021, and it was during the pandemic.
So everything was really to be astudent then and have it all be
remote was extremely difficult. And so out of that, I just, but
(02:31):
legal writing is always so hard for people.
So that was something that I knew that I had a lot of
experience in. And it's really evolved and led
to a book, Dear 1L Notes to nurture a new legal writer,
which is on Amazon. And I, the people who have read
it, I mean, and it's done well. I mean, it's just me by myself.
(02:52):
I didn't have a publisher or anything, but they've all said
that it's really indispensable. And now that some people have
it, everyone really needs to read it before they start law
school because there's some corelessons that you, that you're
only going to learn if you read it.
So, so that's how I have a website which has a lot and, and
I've been, yeah, the whole LinkedIn thinks crazy.
(03:13):
Don't you think it's wild? I don't know.
I, I didn't set out to do any ofthis, but I, yeah, I have a big
following on LinkedIn and it's been lovely.
That's so fantastic. You, you've had really a reached
career as as you mentioned, well, you know, big law,
in-house teaching, coaching. And if I may ask you, if you
could go back to your very firstday as a lawyer, what kind of
(03:36):
advice would you give yourself back then?
Well, my tongue and cheek. My short little answer is to
always carry a pen and a pad of paper when you go into a
partner's office because I learned the very hard way when I
didn't on my very first day and was sent back to my office to go
(03:57):
get pen and a paper to write with and it was most unpleasant.
So that's probably what I would have said that I have a
romanticized view or had a romanticized experience in big
law because I met my husband on the first day of work.
So in Westlaw training to boot. So, and before that, I had been
(04:20):
in Boston for law school and I had this big decision was like
going to stay in Boston or go back to New York where I was
from and had grown up and all myfriends were starting to go.
And I was completely single. And I mean, I was 26 and I, Long
story short, had just sort of, Iwent to New York, bought my own
apartment, started my life as a career woman, and then met my
(04:43):
husband, my current husband, Matt.
So that's really fun. And so for the first year or so,
I was sort of, I mean, I was madly in love with someone who's
at work and then we got married.So it was like a really happy
experience. So I would say that you never
know what's going to happen. Keep, you know, always be open
to new new possibilities. Well, that's fantastic.
(05:05):
Yeah. That has been one of the fun
things of talking to different lawyers because things seem to
happen when people, you know, show up at work, have a good
attitude, beat in their personallife, in their professional
life. Just very unexpected more often
than not. But things just happen.
And I don't know what you call that a specifically, but it's
being just amazing to witness that and to hear all about it.
(05:27):
Well, I think that I really think that you need to just do
you put yourself in situations where you're doing what you
would do regardless of who you're going to meet and do
something that you are just set to do.
Because then once you do that, Ithink you look attractive and
you attract people because you look like you got stuff
together. I don't know, We're all trying
(05:48):
to figure it. Out very enough.
Fair enough. So I did a little digging on
your website and all of that andI and I noticed something that I
really thought it was amazing. You mentioned something along
the lines that you really love seeing your students outgrow
you. And I was just wondering if
there is like a one moment that made you really proud as a as a
(06:10):
coach, as a mentor, as somebody who's who's there to, you know,
teach and cheer on future generations in a way.
That I've been very fortunate tohave had wonderful interactions
even when I was in big law. The thing I love the most was
the mentoring and the the guiding of junior associates.
(06:30):
But I will get my recent story is last summer I had a student,
a pre law student reach out to me and he was very insecure
about starting law school because he was a musician and
had spent college studying musicmostly and had also done math
(06:51):
law school. He just was worried English was
his second language to boot. So there was another layer and
he just thought, I mean, he really, and he, he was so
brilliant, but he and he was going to a T14, which is the
sort of top ranked fourteen in law schools in our country.
And so we worked on it with A1 on one to get him ready for law
(07:15):
school. And it's, it was a five session
one-on-one thing that we did, but he left the fifth one and
said, OK, I think I'm ready to start, but I want to save it for
before exams and what have you. Long story short, he got
straight A's in everything. His first memo was like used as
a model for the class. And so I would get these notes
(07:38):
from him throughout the semester.
I mean, it was just, it made me feel so good because this was
the first student that I had really spent a lot of time with
helping them get ready for the first year of law school and be
prepared to come in with their like, are their command of
English language as rock solid as possible?
Because as you know, once you filter, you Add all the layers
(08:00):
of complexity with the legal terms and the complex ideas.
If you, I mean, if you need to have really good writing, that's
just perfect form wise so that these, the concepts, when you
add them into the to regular writing makes sense and they're
complicated. So he did such a great job.
I was so proud of him and he's just soaring.
(08:21):
So that's my proud moment. That's fantastic.
That's so good to hear. And and going on to legal riding
one of your specialties here, I'm sure you can feel
intimidating. You just mentioned this student,
but I'm sure sometimes even for seasoned lawyers, I feel things
can, you know, be something thatthey they need to double check
or talk with somebody over. So is there such a thing as like
(08:43):
a big myth that you see people in the legal industry thinking
about or believing about in regards to legal writing?
I don't know that I would say a myth necessarily, as I see the
problem as legal writing and thegreat advice from a couple
experts at the top really just is not filtering down to
(09:05):
everyone. It's legal writing has always
been something that's that, you know, most erudite of scholars
and you think of, I think of oldmen and dusty robes and this
sort of cloak and it's just scary.
It's like mystical. It's so abstract.
It seems like there is an unending university universe of
(09:26):
things to learn. And there's also, you'll have
different partners writing styles, some of which are not
necessarily good, that go into the mix of how 1 needs to write.
And there's also depending on what you're writing and what
your audience is, it will all change.
And I think that there are so many people who struggle with
(09:48):
legal writing. And I really believe it's that
one of the root causes is that people are starting law school
and they don't remember grammar from middle school.
They haven't thought about it. It's not, it's not, you know,
something that's really a focus in college where really they're
measuring substance and, and your idea is not your, your
grammar. So I, I want to, I really think
(10:11):
that we need to like take off the like, this is like in this
dusty book from old time that wehave to figure out and really
make it more accessible to everyone.
And so, I mean, that's sort of what I think, at least in terms
of me and I and my goal of sort of bringing, trying to make it
easy for people to learn becauseit's so hard legal writing,
(10:32):
right? I mean, and it takes so long and
you beat yourself up and lawyersspend so much time writing that
it's really, there's a lot of time spent alone writing at your
computer and beating yourself upbecause you're not sure if your
words sound right or if you're writing it right.
So that's kind of, that's what Ireally want to change about
legal writing and how we learn it.
(10:53):
I. Love that.
So we, we spoke about a few different things, went over a
little bit of your career, a little bit of, you know, ideas,
moments of success, talked aboutlegal writing.
And if I may ask you, you know, you bring a lot of gems from
your from your book, Dear 1L on LinkedIn every once in a while.
And I'm thinking here also regarding professionals who are
(11:17):
a little more mature in the legal field.
What would you say to someone who's feeling a little stuck in
their career and maybe is scaredto pivot or trying something
new, be, you know, getting out of a law firm, going and
shooting house, or be it, you know, going through a quasi
legal role or something completely out of the legal
field. What are some of your thoughts?
(11:38):
It's difficult because the decision is all wrapped up in
money most of the time. And the practical reality can be
that because it was for me, you know, kept working in big law
because I needed that money and I it, it just was, I had three
children and I was trying to do it all.
I mean, it was hard. And so I think that if you're at
(12:00):
the stage where you could financially accept it, and it's,
it really depends on what kind of income you need to make.
But what I would say to all really, and, and I'm just going
to keep stressing the importanceof communication skills.
But if you keep investing in your skills and your, your
speaking skills, you're writing,you're interacting with people,
(12:22):
that's going to be really helpful no matter what you
decide to do. So if you're still kind of stuck
and you need to be stuck for money or you, or you're not
quite sure yet what you want to do, I would, I would advise to
work on those things because anddon't feel like you're stuck,
like you're actually doing something that's going to help
you later. So that it's useful use of your
time that you should be writing and practicing and learning.
(12:45):
And I think so, so that's that in terms of people who really
are just need to push and who are ready and need to move on.
I would say that there is so there's so much life after big
law and you can really get, you get in this.
I found a big law. It's such a hierarchy.
And the corner office partners are like kings and their sort
(13:08):
of, I mean, they walked down thehall and you just sort of, oh,
royalties walking. I mean, it's, it's you feel the
divide, the hierarchy. There's also a big usually age
divide, which exacerbates it. And so once when I went in
house, the biggest difference I noticed is that people would say
thank you and be so appreciativewhen you would do something.
(13:32):
And that's kind of a bad commentary I think on the
culture just generally at law firms where you're just a
service person to the clients and you kind of no one care, you
know, about how you feel about the feedback you're getting.
So that's kind of a long winded answer.
That makes a lot of sense takingthat into consideration here,
you know, between writing, coaching, family life, you must
(13:55):
have a really full schedule and and also keeping on top of all
the notifications on LinkedIn aswell.
But if I may ask you on a more personal side, what what's your
favorite way to recharge or finda moment of calm after all of?
That actually, I mean, I think it's a little bit I, I am busy
only because I spend a lot of time creating and thinking and I
(14:16):
don't take on very many clients in part because I'm trying to
figure out whether I need to make, how much money I need to
make myself and what, whether that's, you know, how important
that goal is and all of it. But I would say the fun things.
I have three daughters that are in their early 20s and I just
love listening to music and talking to them.
We have really fun times and I, they, I see them And so it's
(14:39):
lovely. And and that's probably my just
greatest sort of enjoyment. Fantastic and she Rep up today's
episode. I I thought I'd try a little bit
of a fun more silly over question here.
But you know, you've lived in some great cities, work that
some iconic places like Hershey's.
And if you could describe your career journey using a candy
(15:01):
bar, which one would you pick and why?
So I didn't know this question in advance.
I'm going to spill your beans. So I have had a little thinking
time about it. This is not necessarily what
would have come to me right away, But when I was at Hershey,
they had sweet and salty bar andI thought maybe the combination,
something about the contrast, because in my whole career, I've
(15:25):
always I've really, I've been a mom and I've been a lawyer and
balancing them and they're so different.
And then also I had always wanted to be a teacher and I
kind of ended up going to law school.
That's another long story that Iwon't say, but I I think that
somehow these two different things, the writing and the
(15:47):
lawyer and just sort of came together all but none of it
looks. I mean, it was not planned and
there was so much inner torment along the way.
But then after a certain point you think oht this all makes
sense looking backwards. That's amazing.
That's amazing. Well, I just wanted to really
thank you so much for your time for speaking with me today and
(16:08):
thank you all for tuning into this episode and hope to see you
on the next one.
Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of
Studying Law Around the World. Today, I have the opportunity to
interview Amanda Haverstick. We'll be talking about a few
different things, but Amanda hashad such an incredible career.
She's been a lawyer, She has worked with helping students
with their careers at a university, and she's a book
(00:38):
author. She's a LinkedIn superstar and
so many other things. So thank you so much for joining
us today, Commander. Thank you for taking the time.
You're welcome. And I, as I always say, I think
it looks like kind of good on the outside.
And then when you get off coursefrom my perspective, I'm sort of
trying to still figure out what I'm doing.
(01:00):
So is so thank you for that intro.
Well, thank you for your time. And to start off, I, I'm sure
that most of our listeners are already quite familiar with your
work in the social media and with DRL and so many other good
things you've put out there. But would you mind introducing
yourself to your listeners a little bit and telling us about
your journey? Sure.
(01:21):
I am a former big law lawyer. I worked for about 20 years in
big law. I worked in house for a couple
of those years. I'm a mother to three and I
stopping a lawyer about nine years ago now 8 or 9, and I took
some years off. I have a big gap.
(01:42):
And then COVID happened and I think as a lot of people found
it sort of looked life in the face of you and what are you
doing? And so I was turning 50 and I
just kind of on a whim, someone was like, oh, you really should
do social media marketing, whichI had no idea what was that.
So I just went starting one postat a time back in early, I mean,
(02:06):
September 2021, I guess it was and it really took off And there
was, it was great. I started with a mission to help
really the one out. And I had started my first time
tutoring was earlier in 2021, and it was during the pandemic.
So everything was really to be astudent then and have it all be
remote was extremely difficult. And so out of that, I just, but
(02:31):
legal writing is always so hard for people.
So that was something that I knew that I had a lot of
experience in. And it's really evolved and led
to a book, Dear 1L Notes to nurture a new legal writer,
which is on Amazon. And I, the people who have read
it, I mean, and it's done well. I mean, it's just me by myself.
(02:52):
I didn't have a publisher or anything, but they've all said
that it's really indispensable. And now that some people have
it, everyone really needs to read it before they start law
school because there's some corelessons that you, that you're
only going to learn if you read it.
So, so that's how I have a website which has a lot and, and
I've been, yeah, the whole LinkedIn thinks crazy.
(03:13):
Don't you think it's wild? I don't know.
I, I didn't set out to do any ofthis, but I, yeah, I have a big
following on LinkedIn and it's been lovely.
That's so fantastic. You, you've had really a reached
career as as you mentioned, well, you know, big law,
in-house teaching, coaching. And if I may ask you, if you
could go back to your very firstday as a lawyer, what kind of
(03:36):
advice would you give yourself back then?
Well, my tongue and cheek. My short little answer is to
always carry a pen and a pad of paper when you go into a
partner's office because I learned the very hard way when I
didn't on my very first day and was sent back to my office to go
(03:57):
get pen and a paper to write with and it was most unpleasant.
So that's probably what I would have said that I have a
romanticized view or had a romanticized experience in big
law because I met my husband on the first day of work.
So in Westlaw training to boot. So, and before that, I had been
(04:20):
in Boston for law school and I had this big decision was like
going to stay in Boston or go back to New York where I was
from and had grown up and all myfriends were starting to go.
And I was completely single. And I mean, I was 26 and I, Long
story short, had just sort of, Iwent to New York, bought my own
apartment, started my life as a career woman, and then met my
(04:43):
husband, my current husband, Matt.
So that's really fun. And so for the first year or so,
I was sort of, I mean, I was madly in love with someone who's
at work and then we got married.So it was like a really happy
experience. So I would say that you never
know what's going to happen. Keep, you know, always be open
to new new possibilities. Well, that's fantastic.
(05:05):
Yeah. That has been one of the fun
things of talking to different lawyers because things seem to
happen when people, you know, show up at work, have a good
attitude, beat in their personallife, in their professional
life. Just very unexpected more often
than not. But things just happen.
And I don't know what you call that a specifically, but it's
being just amazing to witness that and to hear all about it.
(05:27):
Well, I think that I really think that you need to just do
you put yourself in situations where you're doing what you
would do regardless of who you're going to meet and do
something that you are just set to do.
Because then once you do that, Ithink you look attractive and
you attract people because you look like you got stuff
together. I don't know, We're all trying
(05:48):
to figure it. Out very enough.
Fair enough. So I did a little digging on
your website and all of that andI and I noticed something that I
really thought it was amazing. You mentioned something along
the lines that you really love seeing your students outgrow
you. And I was just wondering if
there is like a one moment that made you really proud as a as a
(06:10):
coach, as a mentor, as somebody who's who's there to, you know,
teach and cheer on future generations in a way.
That I've been very fortunate tohave had wonderful interactions
even when I was in big law. The thing I love the most was
the mentoring and the the guiding of junior associates.
(06:30):
But I will get my recent story is last summer I had a student,
a pre law student reach out to me and he was very insecure
about starting law school because he was a musician and
had spent college studying musicmostly and had also done math
(06:51):
law school. He just was worried English was
his second language to boot. So there was another layer and
he just thought, I mean, he really, and he, he was so
brilliant, but he and he was going to a T14, which is the
sort of top ranked fourteen in law schools in our country.
And so we worked on it with A1 on one to get him ready for law
(07:15):
school. And it's, it was a five session
one-on-one thing that we did, but he left the fifth one and
said, OK, I think I'm ready to start, but I want to save it for
before exams and what have you. Long story short, he got
straight A's in everything. His first memo was like used as
a model for the class. And so I would get these notes
(07:38):
from him throughout the semester.
I mean, it was just, it made me feel so good because this was
the first student that I had really spent a lot of time with
helping them get ready for the first year of law school and be
prepared to come in with their like, are their command of
English language as rock solid as possible?
Because as you know, once you filter, you Add all the layers
(08:00):
of complexity with the legal terms and the complex ideas.
If you, I mean, if you need to have really good writing, that's
just perfect form wise so that these, the concepts, when you
add them into the to regular writing makes sense and they're
complicated. So he did such a great job.
I was so proud of him and he's just soaring.
(08:21):
So that's my proud moment. That's fantastic.
That's so good to hear. And and going on to legal riding
one of your specialties here, I'm sure you can feel
intimidating. You just mentioned this student,
but I'm sure sometimes even for seasoned lawyers, I feel things
can, you know, be something thatthey they need to double check
or talk with somebody over. So is there such a thing as like
(08:43):
a big myth that you see people in the legal industry thinking
about or believing about in regards to legal writing?
I don't know that I would say a myth necessarily, as I see the
problem as legal writing and thegreat advice from a couple
experts at the top really just is not filtering down to
(09:05):
everyone. It's legal writing has always
been something that's that, you know, most erudite of scholars
and you think of, I think of oldmen and dusty robes and this
sort of cloak and it's just scary.
It's like mystical. It's so abstract.
It seems like there is an unending university universe of
(09:26):
things to learn. And there's also, you'll have
different partners writing styles, some of which are not
necessarily good, that go into the mix of how 1 needs to write.
And there's also depending on what you're writing and what
your audience is, it will all change.
And I think that there are so many people who struggle with
(09:48):
legal writing. And I really believe it's that
one of the root causes is that people are starting law school
and they don't remember grammar from middle school.
They haven't thought about it. It's not, it's not, you know,
something that's really a focus in college where really they're
measuring substance and, and your idea is not your, your
grammar. So I, I want to, I really think
(10:11):
that we need to like take off the like, this is like in this
dusty book from old time that wehave to figure out and really
make it more accessible to everyone.
And so, I mean, that's sort of what I think, at least in terms
of me and I and my goal of sort of bringing, trying to make it
easy for people to learn becauseit's so hard legal writing,
(10:32):
right? I mean, and it takes so long and
you beat yourself up and lawyersspend so much time writing that
it's really, there's a lot of time spent alone writing at your
computer and beating yourself upbecause you're not sure if your
words sound right or if you're writing it right.
So that's kind of, that's what Ireally want to change about
legal writing and how we learn it.
(10:53):
I. Love that.
So we, we spoke about a few different things, went over a
little bit of your career, a little bit of, you know, ideas,
moments of success, talked aboutlegal writing.
And if I may ask you, you know, you bring a lot of gems from
your from your book, Dear 1L on LinkedIn every once in a while.
And I'm thinking here also regarding professionals who are
(11:17):
a little more mature in the legal field.
What would you say to someone who's feeling a little stuck in
their career and maybe is scaredto pivot or trying something
new, be, you know, getting out of a law firm, going and
shooting house, or be it, you know, going through a quasi
legal role or something completely out of the legal
field. What are some of your thoughts?
(11:38):
It's difficult because the decision is all wrapped up in
money most of the time. And the practical reality can be
that because it was for me, you know, kept working in big law
because I needed that money and I it, it just was, I had three
children and I was trying to do it all.
I mean, it was hard. And so I think that if you're at
(12:00):
the stage where you could financially accept it, and it's,
it really depends on what kind of income you need to make.
But what I would say to all really, and, and I'm just going
to keep stressing the importanceof communication skills.
But if you keep investing in your skills and your, your
speaking skills, you're writing,you're interacting with people,
(12:22):
that's going to be really helpful no matter what you
decide to do. So if you're still kind of stuck
and you need to be stuck for money or you, or you're not
quite sure yet what you want to do, I would, I would advise to
work on those things because anddon't feel like you're stuck,
like you're actually doing something that's going to help
you later. So that it's useful use of your
time that you should be writing and practicing and learning.
(12:45):
And I think so, so that's that in terms of people who really
are just need to push and who are ready and need to move on.
I would say that there is so there's so much life after big
law and you can really get, you get in this.
I found a big law. It's such a hierarchy.
And the corner office partners are like kings and their sort
(13:08):
of, I mean, they walked down thehall and you just sort of, oh,
royalties walking. I mean, it's, it's you feel the
divide, the hierarchy. There's also a big usually age
divide, which exacerbates it. And so once when I went in
house, the biggest difference I noticed is that people would say
thank you and be so appreciativewhen you would do something.
(13:32):
And that's kind of a bad commentary I think on the
culture just generally at law firms where you're just a
service person to the clients and you kind of no one care, you
know, about how you feel about the feedback you're getting.
So that's kind of a long winded answer.
That makes a lot of sense takingthat into consideration here,
you know, between writing, coaching, family life, you must
(13:55):
have a really full schedule and and also keeping on top of all
the notifications on LinkedIn aswell.
But if I may ask you on a more personal side, what what's your
favorite way to recharge or finda moment of calm after all of?
That actually, I mean, I think it's a little bit I, I am busy
only because I spend a lot of time creating and thinking and I
(14:16):
don't take on very many clients in part because I'm trying to
figure out whether I need to make, how much money I need to
make myself and what, whether that's, you know, how important
that goal is and all of it. But I would say the fun things.
I have three daughters that are in their early 20s and I just
love listening to music and talking to them.
We have really fun times and I, they, I see them And so it's
(14:39):
lovely. And and that's probably my just
greatest sort of enjoyment. Fantastic and she Rep up today's
episode. I I thought I'd try a little bit
of a fun more silly over question here.
But you know, you've lived in some great cities, work that
some iconic places like Hershey's.
And if you could describe your career journey using a candy
(15:01):
bar, which one would you pick and why?
So I didn't know this question in advance.
I'm going to spill your beans. So I have had a little thinking
time about it. This is not necessarily what
would have come to me right away, But when I was at Hershey,
they had sweet and salty bar andI thought maybe the combination,
something about the contrast, because in my whole career, I've
(15:25):
always I've really, I've been a mom and I've been a lawyer and
balancing them and they're so different.
And then also I had always wanted to be a teacher and I
kind of ended up going to law school.
That's another long story that Iwon't say, but I I think that
somehow these two different things, the writing and the
(15:47):
lawyer and just sort of came together all but none of it
looks. I mean, it was not planned and
there was so much inner torment along the way.
But then after a certain point you think oht this all makes
sense looking backwards. That's amazing.
That's amazing. Well, I just wanted to really
thank you so much for your time for speaking with me today and
(16:08):
thank you all for tuning into this episode and hope to see you
on the next one.
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