#155 - Aaron Royle, Professional Triathlete

In this heartfelt and wide-ranging conversation, Australian Olympian and professional triathlete Aaron Royle opens up about the true cost—and beauty—of chasing greatness. From early swim meets at age 9 to standing on the Olympic start line, Aaron reflects on how identity, drive, and self-worth are shaped by sport, and what happens when the finish line feels further than ever.

Aaron and Seth dive into deep topics: imposter syndrome, the fear of the unknown, life after sport, and how true support systems make or break an athlete’s journey. Aaron shares honest thoughts about Olympic highs and lows, growing up in a working-class family of Greyhound trainers, and how he’s slowly learning to appreciate his accomplishments without needing outside validation.

This episode is packed with hard-earned wisdom for any athlete wondering what comes after the podium—and why perseverance often matters more than winning.

Aaron’s IG: https://www.instagram.com/aaronroyle/

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
How's it going everybody? Welcome back to another edition
of Stupid Questions podcast. Today in the pod we're going to
be talking with a legend of the sport who is still kicking it,
Aaron Royal. He is a professional triathlete
who is from Australia, multiple time Olympian, Junior World
champion, has obviously a lot ofskill, talent and energy for the
sport. So really looking forward to

(00:20):
jumping into this conversation with him.
Before I do though, I just want to let you guys know that check
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(00:40):
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All right, without further ado, I want to introduce you to Mr.
Aaron Royal. Hey, man, So you said you're in
Gerona. Are you there for, is this your
European home? Because I was reading a little
bit online that you have some housing here and back in

(01:01):
Australia, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'm over in in Gerona. So we my wife just got a job
with with Oz Triathlon. So we, my wife's British and we
first were living in Leeds in the UK and then we moved back to
Australia only about a month agothough, maybe two months ago
now. And now I'm back over in Europe

(01:23):
for some racing over in the European season.
So it's been a pretty hectic last couple of months, which a
lot of it was not planned, I guess like this job that she got
was not what we were thinking. That was normally our bingo card
at the start of the year. So we've had to roll with it,
roll with it a little bit. But now, settled here in Girona,

(01:45):
the weather's dark, the sun shining, you know I can't
complain too much. Yeah, for sure.
Is it like Girona this time of year?
Is it pretty sunshine constantlyor is there a lot of
thunderstorms that come through?No, no, no, like honestly it's
pretty good. It's pretty dry throughout the
summertime. It's it's about 30 to 35 in

(02:07):
Celsius. So I don't know, that's about
9095, I guess Fahrenheit or something like that.
Yeah, it's warm and it's like consistently like it'd be like
that for the next couple of months.
So yeah, I am Australian, but like I said, I've spent the
last, well, eight years, 7-8 years living in the UK, So I
think I've lost a little bit of my heat, a climate or
adaptation. So I'm sort of struggling a

(02:30):
little bit in the heat. But yeah, I'm coming around for
that, coming around for all that.
Yeah, cool man. Well, First off, just want to
say thank you so much for takingthe time to jump on and allow me
to dig into your life a little bit.
I was just perusing around your website.
Looks like you've done some quite a few podcasts in the back
in the back in the past. And do you have one that you are

(02:50):
currently kind of a part of the system?
Yes. And my, my website's probably
fairly out of date as well, but a couple years, yeah, yeah,
yeah. No one goes on website.
No one uses websites anymore. Really.
That's all Instagram, right? Yeah, yeah, no, I've done a few
in the past, but yeah, we've gotour own yellow games and myself

(03:12):
started one. He's a good mate of mine.
We, we were in the same trainingsquad for a couple of years,
just a few years ago actually, with Joel Filio.
So the, the JFT crew that most people would have heard of in
the, in the triathlon, particularly more short course
athletes. But yeah, we, we became good
friends and started our own yeahpodcasts a couple of months ago

(03:34):
now. It's been fun.
We're not taking it too serious,you know, like just get on
record when we can and really just shoot the crap.
Really just two mates talking about triathlon, sharing our
journey. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that's a good way to do anything honestly, because
whenever there's a lot of expectation put on it, when I
started this, I was like, yeah, it's going to be for fun.
So but whatever happens happens.It's not some RIP roaring

(03:54):
success, but in terms of like download numbers and money.
And honestly, I think that that can start to take away the the
some of the best stories becauseonce you come at it with an
agenda and an angle, it can be kind of tough to get people to
open up and stuff like that. Yeah, exactly.
You know, and was actually I waslaughing a little bit because
Vicki Holland. So they they obviously just did
T100 Vancouver on the weekend and Vicki Holland.

(04:18):
I can't I, I should have, I should know the guys name that
the other guy that was a commentator with Vicki.
I can't remember his name, sorry, but they were both
mentioning the the podcast quitea lot.
And I was like, oh, I was like, pretty Jed up listen to it.
And then I was like, settle downa bit Vicky.
I don't want this to go like toobig.
You know, I don't want to be yeah, getting told come on, get
podcasts out every week or everywhatever.

(04:38):
So yeah, no, like I said, it's just a bit of like, like you
said as well, it's just a bit offun.
You know, some, some sometimes we'll go a couple of weeks
without doing 1 because we just don't think there's much to talk
about. And then lately we've been doing
them every like every week or so.
So yeah, just whenever, wheneverthings pop up, we we hit record
and we go away and get it done. Yeah, cool, man.

(05:00):
Well, first question I would love to open up with is one from
your perspective and it's a deeper question, so take as much
time as you want to answer it, but from your perspective, who
is Aaron? Oh, who is Aaron?
Well, yeah, I mean, that's a tough one, I guess.

(05:22):
I don't really. No one's ever really asked me
who am I? Score for me then.
Yeah, now well done, well done. And I guess it makes you really
think who am I? I guess as I've, as I've evolved
and got gotten older, I think there's a bit more to me than
just than just triathlon. But you know, it's been
instilled in me from a very, very young age, sport in

(05:44):
general. So started out as a swimmer, you
know, at a very early, at a veryearly age.
And it's really been ingrained in me from from a very young
age. And I've sort of pursued this
career for as long as I've knownAnd I, I'm definitely getting
towards the, the, the latter endof my career, the twilight

(06:07):
years, I guess. And I guess, yeah, your, your
perspectives changes and you realize that you're in a, in a,
in a bit of a bubble that this triathlon bubble or this
sporting bubble, high performance, waking up day in
day out, trying to get the best out of yourself.
And yeah, I guess I'm, I'm starting or trying to see the

(06:29):
Aaron also not as an athlete now.
And like I said, it's, it is coming to the end of like, oh,
wow. Like I'm calling end of my
career right now, which isn't the case.
But you know, I've been doing itfor a long time.
And so I'm I'm definitely towards the latter end.
And and so I'm starting to, I guess figure out myself what
that is for me after sport. Yeah.

(06:52):
And it is, it is quite daunting and I'm kind of digressing here
a little bit, but it's it's quite daunting.
You know, I for a large part of my especially short course
career and, and, and a few yearsin in the middle distance
career, I was, you know, one of the, you know, maybe the top 10
for a few years in the world in the sport.
And I know probably whatever it is that I do next is is I

(07:20):
probably won't be the the top 10.
Best 10,000 maybe? Yeah, I know.
And that's scary. Yeah, a little bit, you know,
like I've gone from this and, and whatever it is that's next
is, is probably going to be a whole new challenge and, and
probably starting all over again, but that's, that's also
exciting. So I, I guess I haven't really

(07:41):
answered your question. I, I guess I'm, I'm a little bit
in the at the moment in, in thatphase where I'm, yeah, still
even 15 years later trying to trying to figure that out, I
guess. Yeah, grappling, grappling
through the dark a little bit. Well, it's interesting with
endurance sport, you know, like you said, you come into the
twilight of your career, but most people that's like, you
know, mid to late 30s, which arguably is only like 1/3 of our

(08:05):
life potential. So there's a there's two other
lifetimes still to live and there's, there's so many things
that define who we are. I think outside of how we view
ourselves that I was talking to Tim Don yesterday or two days
ago about this question. It's like there's three kind of
segments in my mind that have always existed in terms of how

(08:26):
the identity of Seth or how the identity of Aaron would live.
It's like how your your family views you.
So like those are their close closest to you, whether you're a
world champion or whatever, theykind of don't care if you, your
brother or sister, they're stillgoing to slap you around.
So like they view you in that that light.
And then there's the view of howyou view yourself.
And then there's the view of howyour fans view you.
And each of those have like a very interesting, you know, peek

(08:50):
inside to who you are because you're family.
They can see somewhat inside more than most people.
The people outside, they don't really see anything except for
the Instagram highlight reels. And then how we do ourselves is
really defined by, you know, what we allow those paintbrushes
of identity to be kind of markedin, like, do we paint ourselves
in a box or whatnot? So which one of those do you
like identify with as much most do you think?

(09:20):
Probably, yeah. I don't know.
Good question again. And you've, you've eloquently
put that out. So, so brilliant.
You, you sorry. You were talking to Tim Dunn
about that, were you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A couple of days ago, yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

(09:43):
I'm really struggling to find ananswer there.
Is it is it unsettling because you just it's hard to put the
words together or do you feel like, and it sounds like it
seems like you're in a position in your life right now where
you're, you want to define that,but it's like really unknown and

(10:03):
it's so unsettling. I think so.
I think probably I'm at a point in my career where it's, yeah,
it's a little bit unknown of howI want to define myself or, you
know, and the, you know, I'm navigating towards that period
in my life where I'm sort of looking ahead as well, not just

(10:23):
looking at the present. And there is a lot of
uncertainty of, of what my future holds.
And so I, yeah, I guess I, I struggle a little bit and, you
know, I, I guess because my identity, I guess is in
triathlon. It's in sport.
There's no doubt about that. But that doesn't last forever.

(10:44):
And it's a yeah, I think you, you hear a lot of athletes talk
about that, that period in theircareers where they they look,
look ahead. And for so long you knew, you
knew what that was. And you, you had that same
routine every single day. And yeah, it's not always going

(11:07):
to be there. And, and so I guess it is that
that scary, I guess looking for looking ahead and, and that
little bit of unknown that is a little bit unsettling, Yeah.
So I have two questions then settled around this concept that
we're talking about a little bit.
The first one, so you're married, correct?
And you have kids. No kids at the moment.
No kids, OK, well, kids are yourwife.

(11:28):
This would this question would still apply but for your wife,
how do you think that she would define you as an individual
sport totally at the wayside in terms of like the values or the
the way that you process throughhard challenges or things like
that? She would say I was, I'm quite

(11:52):
independent. I'm very stubborn.
I don't, you know, I guess why I'm a little bit stumped now is
I don't like the unknown. So for like I always like to
have a plan. I always like to know this is
what we're doing. And so yeah, she would.

(12:19):
That's how so. So that's what she would say.
I think of me particularly. I'm stubborn and I, I like
things to go, to go my way, but also being a strain, I guess
I've got that relaxed nature to me as well and in certain
things. So it's kind of counterintuitive

(12:43):
to what I'm just saying now, butquite relaxed about certain
things as well. So yeah, that's, that's I guess
how she would define me. She was also the high level
athlete herself. She was both at the at the Rio
Olympics. So I guess we share a very
similar mindsets to performance and, and triathlon.

(13:04):
And I guess it, there's no doubtthat also then carries on into
our, into our daily lives as well, you know, So I guess we've
got a, a different dynamic and understanding of each other as
well. Yeah, for sure.
How long have you been married? We got married in 2022, so we we

(13:24):
got together back in. So we both actually won the
under 23 World Championships back in 2012.
It was. You've seen her in the action
for a while then? Seen her in the action for a
while, yeah. And then we, yeah, we got got
together in 2015. Yeah, cool, man.
That's awesome. Yeah.
The reason I ask that is becauseI was curious, you know, you you
brought out a couple of things, the stubbornness and then the

(13:46):
the value on just high performance, but also like
having a plan. And when I was thinking, you
know, kind of about the questions of what, what does the
future hold? I've noticed in myself, but also
in a lot of the high performancepeople who I've had on here and
and talked with that there is anuncomfortability when it comes

(14:07):
to something you can't control. So age being one of those things
and what does the future hold? However, with hearing a little
bit of how your wife perceives you and how you perceive
yourself, it seems like a lot ofthose values that you'll still
be able to carry with you in whatever you do, whether it's
within that world of sport, you know, coaching or whatever.

(14:29):
But even like I think of the business world because like I
have a friend who Co founded this company called Oakley
Sunglasses and they had Michael Jordan come on at one point to
be kind of like an advisor. And Michael was interesting in
his own right, very intense individual, really good on the
court. But in the business field, he

(14:51):
came into some of their meetingsasking the question, you know,
well, what are you? What are you going to do in
terms of offense? But we're back.
What is the last thing you heardme say?
Did did I just freeze for you? Did it?
Yeah, you froze for me. So I was.
Yeah. I was talking a little bit about
Michael Jordan and then. Yeah.

(15:13):
Yeah, that's, that's about what I heard, yeah.
OK, well, we'll go there and I'll try to pontificate too
much, but there's just a conceptlike, so Michael was a very
aggressive player, usually thought less about defense, more
about offense. And he came into the boardroom
talking with the guys from Oakley.
And the idea was, you know, maybe you guys are spending too
much time on defense and enough time on offense.

(15:33):
Like, what are you doing offensively in the business
world? And no one had really thought
about that. And he really brought that to
the boardroom from a perspectiveof being an athlete, having that
different mindset. So.
And I was questioning you a little bit about the other
values and the way that you operate.
I was thinking, oh, there's, there's probably a lot of
business acumen. So I was going to ask you like,
are you interested in business at all?

(15:57):
Definitely, I think you know, soso what's next to me?
I guess like at once I do finishup, you know, I definitely want
to stay within the sport. So triathlon is like I said,
it's it my passion. So I, I do want to coach.
That's probably what I want to do.

(16:18):
But now I do have some sort of, you know, business ideas,
whether that's again, in the triathlon space around like
Yeller and yeller. And I have actually talked a
little bit about like kind of creating this place for people
to optimize their, the aerodynamics and, you know,

(16:44):
creating triathlon squads and high performance environments
for, for athletes and potentially camps as well in in
that sort of space. So yeah, there's definitely sort
of some areas where where I sortof want to step into that as
well. But as of yet, we haven't really
gone down that Ave. because I I think it's something that, you

(17:06):
know, it needs, needs your full attention and both triathlon and
or whether you want to go down that space as well.
I think I'm not certainly not good enough.
Maybe yeller is, but I'm certainly not good enough to be
able to try and combine both. I, I really need something to,
you know, my full attention on triathlon to sort of ache and
squeeze out every last bit I canbefore I sort of step into that

(17:29):
space. Yeah, it sounds interesting that
to keep you posted, but I do want to go back now to Aaron as
like a kid. So when I was reading about you
a little bit and you had mentioned this, you know,
swimming was very early on a piece of who you became even to
the point to where you started winning medals, like state
medals in swimming and running at the ripe age of nine.

(17:54):
I'm curious how that affected just your cognitive and mental
development and maturity level, because to be able to do those
things, it takes, it takes a level of discipline that most
kids, it's like the most discipline they have to endure
is, you know, mom says you can'teat that right now or whatever,
go to school and do your homework.
So there's a next level tier there.
Do you think that that affected the way that you have developed

(18:15):
as a human? Yeah.
Definitely, I think so. You know, I, I guess you don't
know that you're driven at the time, but you know, looking
back, I think I definitely was. And coaches and, and people
around me definitely saw that. And so, yeah, I did have some
talent, but I think I was just really willing to work, work

(18:37):
quite hard. You know, I still remember some
a swim session, I can't rememberthe exact time, but I was a
butterflyer at the time. And it was before, a couple of
weeks before the school Pacific Games, which had countries in
the specific nations area. So those Australia and New
Zealand, US were there. Japan, Yeah.

(18:58):
It's like quite a big mate, especially for a young kid.
And I kept missing this time that I had to do in training.
And, but, and there's some otherkids as well that kept missing
their times. And the coach kept saying you
got to keep going. You got to keep going until you
do it. And like a lot of the kids just
gave up. They said we can't do it

(19:18):
anymore. And I think I did, you know,
like 20 reps before I finally got the time.
And so I think I knew, or at least people knew that I had
that drive in me from a young age.
And it definitely has helped shape who I was.
I, you know, I think throughout my career, and I think it's

(19:40):
partly a lot of athletes suffer from it a little bit, but the
imposter syndrome a little bit, you know, I never, I never
thought I was that good. I always felt like I had to work
really hard. And even then I had to get a
little bit lucky. And even then, if I had a
really, really good race, it wasbecause XY and Z wasn't there

(20:00):
or, you know, so I always suffered a little bit from that
throughout my career. And I, yeah, I felt like the
only way I could counteract thatwas having, you know, some
really good work ethic. And yeah, I really think that's
sort of what sort of helped shape me as the athlete.
I was from a from a very early young age, which like I said, I
didn't really know I had at the time, but people had identified
it, identified it early on. Yeah.

(20:22):
What level of this drive and theway that you approach life do
you think was nature versus nurture in terms of your parents
upbringing and the atmosphere you found yourself in?
Good question. A little bit of, I'd say a
little bit of both. You know, my, my dad was, you
know, he was into the sport withme from a young age.

(20:46):
You know, maybe some thought it was a little bit pushy, but it
was always driven from me. You know, it was never him
waking me up at 4:15 AM and saying I have to go swimming.
It was you come and wake me up if we want to go swimming.
But if you wake me up, then you're doing it properly.
So you definitely instill that from me from a young age.

(21:07):
And my brother who also was intoswimming at the time.
And so that was always their belief is that, you know, it's,
it's your choice, but if you're going to do it, you're going to
work hard at it and we're going to do it properly.
And they, they, my especially mydad is a hard worker.
He's now 7 years old and he runshis own business.
It's just a, a, a wholesaling business that he has and he

(21:31):
still, he works from 3:00 AM to,I don't know, 6:00 PM and he's
seven years old, you know, So it's, it's definitely something
that was, I guess a little bit of both when you talk about that
nurture first nature. Yeah.
When you were swimming and then eventually getting into running
with at that age versus now, would you say that your level of

(21:55):
fulfilment comes from the same aspects?
Because when I imagine when you're younger, it's like, oh, I
want to win. And then you get older and you
realize that winning isn't everything.
So like is there a difference orhas it stayed consistent for
you? No, there's definitely was,
there is definitely a difference.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, at that age you only,
yeah, like you said, you only care about winning or doing well

(22:16):
or do it setting, especially in swimming that's setting the PB
is initially that's the main thing that you want to do.
And, and on running track, you want to, you want to set that,
that you know, your personal best and you're a failure.
If you didn't, of course, still now results, I mean, a
performance sports, a results matter.
And so that still does drive you, but there's so much more to

(22:41):
it. And you know, like I've, I've,
I've met my wife through triathlon, you know, we, we'll
be together hopefully for the rest of our lives and, and
that's brought us together like that's pretty cool.
And that's not a performance related thing at all, you know,
and, and what, what is winning has changed, you know, it's for

(23:03):
me, it's not just the first across the line anymore.
You know, I know I kind of harped on it a little bit
already early on in into the podcast.
But like I, like I've said, I amtowards the back end of my
career and I'm probably not fighting for the wins or the
podiums in T100 races anymore. You know, those days probably
done and a win for me. And if I, if I could do it in

(23:24):
San Francisco was probably a top6, I would have walked away from
that race feeling like I'd won the race.
I didn't, I didn't manage that result.
But yeah, it does change over time and and then and the
meaning of winning has changed over the time as well.
What is like, what does it mean to you now?
Like if you were to win, becauseyou said that there's a little

(23:46):
bit of realism in the and just in the perspective of of
winning, obviously you would be elated to win AT-100 race.
So would it would it mean more to you now?
To actually be first across the line, yeah, yeah, actually I do

(24:07):
think so and I maybe that's counter to what I've just what I
just said then, but I think it would mean mean more to me now.
Yeah, yeah. Because, because I guess maybe
if you ask something like, yeah,to this question and not that
I'm comparing myself to Jan Fredino.
I was thinking of them so I was going to ask it anyway.

(24:29):
Yeah, yeah, I am. So I'm not trying to put myself
in the same, in the same sort ofsemi circles or circle as Jan
Fredino. But if you asked him about one
of his best wins of his career, I'm sure he would put Milwaukee
up there. When everyone had written him
off, no one thought he could do it.

(24:49):
And, you know, the guys won kindof, what, three times.
Olympic gold medal, 70.3 world. I'm sure he puts that Milwaukee
race up there as one of the one of his best.
So in that context, in in that scenario, it would mean more to
me now, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I, I particularly
remember that one because I, I think I watched a post race
interview when and, and as he was explaining the situation, I

(25:13):
was viewing it in my head because I remember when the guys
came roaring past him on the bike and he's got his position,
even his arrow position, which was, you know, quote UN quote
dated because everybody was doing the whole, you know, faces
slammed up in their face. And he said, oh, they were
holding way above 5 watts per kilo.
And then they roll by and he's like, now I'm going to stay in
my race. And then to watch him come
across the line first, I was like, well, that's what it's all

(25:34):
about. Because that for, I think for a
lot of people change the perspective on what it means to
when is the highlight, when is the end, when it what is
possible? Because he was 40, right. 4140,
Yeah. He was.
He was. I think so, yeah.
I think at least I was. I was.
I was in that race and did. You go blown by him.

(25:55):
I did actually, and then he cameback blown by me again.
Yeah, on the run. Well, no, actually he came back
by me towards the end of the run.
He he, he had a second wind on the bike.
That is before he got before he even got to the run.
He kind of, he clawed his way back up.
But yeah, so yeah, that was an incredible win.

(26:15):
And, and like I said, I think for him, that probably is one of
the standout races for him. Well, you took that 5-6 years
man, so. What can happen?
The problem is, you know, the body is tired.
I've been, like we said, I've been doing this.
It's tired, but it's it's sore and it's, I can't quite do the
work that I once was able to, you know.

(26:39):
And Alistair Brownlee talks about the same thing.
He still loves it. I still love it, I just can't
quite get the same level of workor the work that I need done
consistently. That will be dug to bedrock.
Yes, yeah, the old Achilles is both of them, I think ahead and
hanging on by a thread. Yeah, yeah.

(27:00):
So shifting gears just a little bit again, I know I kept going
back, but I, I was curious with,you know, you're talking about
your dad waking up at 3:00 AM, having you wake him up at 4:15
to go swim. Just that alone without knowing
him, like he seems to be like a pretty serious guy in terms of
like getting stuff done, discipline, work at all costs.

(27:21):
I'm curious for you growing up, because I know every child goes
through this metamorphosis of well, you know, we're, we love
our parents. So the coolest people ever.
We get to an age like we write them off, they're complete
idiots. They know nothing.
And then we come back around. And for me, it was reaching a
point in life when I was able tolook at my parents and and like
see them as a human, like, as a like they were a kid at one

(27:43):
point. And I remember distinctly when
these moments kind of happened in my life.
Do you remember that happening for you?
Like when you were had a shift in the perspective of who your
parents were? Yeah, I think so.
Like so from an early age, actually.
Well, not that early, but I lefthome when I was 17.

(28:03):
So before I turned 18, soon as Ifinished school, basically in
high school, not, not university, I, I moved away to
be with my, my coach. Well, at the time, my long term
coach that I had was about 3 hours away.
And so, yeah, there was a large portion there where I, I didn't,
I didn't see them, my parents that is.

(28:24):
But they always still remained my number one fans and #1
supporters. And, and you're right, like
early on, you, you know, they know everything.
And then there's a period where they know nothing in your mind,
and then it shifts and you go, man, I'll actually ride all
along. And I don't distinctly remember

(28:46):
when that happened for me. But yeah, probably probably in
my mid 20s when, you know, you mature a little bit and you
realize that you're wanting to buy a house and you're speaking
to someone and the first person you call when you're 28 years
old to ask the question is your parents.

(29:07):
And you're like, or even like, Ibought a sofa.
Me and my wife bought a sofa theother day like a couple of
months ago. And we FaceTime her mom to help
us decide which one we want. It's like we're now 34 years old
and we're still going to them for life advice, even it being

(29:28):
buying a sofa. But no, you're totally right.
It does it, it, it changes over time.
And yeah, it's, but it's, it's good to have their, their
support and it's been great for me over over the years.
Yeah, and it's also the presencetoo, I think because, you know,
I was thinking a couple of things.
One, when I'm working on a car and I have to do some kind of

(29:52):
like car maintenance or there's some issue, I have many times
come to a place where I'm just like, it's impossible.
Like, I feel like all hope is lost and it's my, my wife's
father because he's like more orless my father's father figure
now. But I'm like, well, if he could
just come in here, like we'll get it figured out.
And it's the same thing. Like I was in New Zealand for
Worlds and I spent a little timewith Mark Dubric afterwards.

(30:13):
And we were out in this swimmingin the ocean one time.
And there was a guy who actuallywarned us that the riptide was
pretty serious. And I, I consider myself a
pretty strong summer since like,whatever.
Anyway, I got pulled out far enough and couldn't move to a
place where I started to panic limit bit and I was like Mark,
like you're probably going to have to come save me.
But it was literally just him being there close by or whoever

(30:35):
it is that we kind of view is that, you know, idol figure that
presence gives us some kind of aboost or something like the
ability to believe in our self. And I think it's so cool when
you we can have parents that have that because I think that
really could be drawn a, a very close correlation to like what
the success of a child looks like going into adulthood if
they have that support. And it sounds like you did from

(30:57):
your parents, which is really awesome.
Yeah, I know, definitely. And and yeah, even now like my
father-in-law when we we bought our new house like in in Leeds
just not too long ago, he was uphelping me all around the house
because I'm useless. And, but, but like you said
though, just having him there gave me the confidence to

(31:18):
actually start hanging the railings up in the and putting
the covers together because yeah, without him there, I, I, I
wouldn't have attempted it. But him just being there really,
really helped. So yeah, 100%.
Yeah, it's neat. So who do you think you're more
like? Your mom or your dad?
Oh, probably actually. Good question.

(31:44):
Probably Dad, Yeah, I'd say we in that aspect.
My mom's pretty far more relaxedthan I am and I I look more like
my mom, but I probably have morepersonality traits as of my dad.
Yeah, that's a good combo. The good looks of the mom and
the the the hard work of the dad.
Exactly. Yeah, that's why your wife

(32:04):
married you, right? Yeah, exactly.
So let me ask you this question,question why have you been
successful? Because like you've been to the
Olympics, you have obviously hadthat strong work ethic, had good
middle distance career and I'm sure many other things that I'm
not even aware of. But why have you had the success

(32:24):
that you have had so far? Well, obviously the work ethic,
I think my ability to persevere.I think one of my first coaches
told me an analogy quite early on about the stone cutter that

(32:45):
hits away to stone 1000 times without as much of A dent to
show for it. And then on the third thousandth
and first hit, it splits in two.And it wasn't that 1000 and
first hit alone that did it. It was all the thousand that
went before it, you know. So I think relating that analogy

(33:09):
is that I, you know, I think I just kept hitting away, kept
plugging away. I wasn't, you know, you see a
lot of the guys that were good as juniors come through.
They're they're normally like the man child the and I
definitely wasn't that. And it's easy to lose younger
athletes when they are quite good before you get to that

(33:30):
pubescent age and then they kindof fall away and they lose their
way to the sport because they were good and then they suddenly
aren't because a lot of people develop at different ages.
And I sort of just kept persevering through that.
And that trait I think I continued throughout my under 23

(33:52):
years and then into my early to mid 20s where I I just kept
persevering, just kept showing up.
And I think partly as well having a bit of that imposter
syndrome, never thinking you're that good.
So always feeling like you have to keep out working everyone
else. I think that went a long way to

(34:13):
having some the success I did. And then if you look at it a bit
more practically, definitely my strengths as an athlete in a
period where so being the swim, being quite strong on the bike
in in short course terms and then typically running quite
well off a tough bike. That aligned at a period where

(34:33):
we had the the Brown era, the Gomez era, where a lot of the
the races were breakaways. And so that always kind of
aligned with my strengths as well.
So if you look at it practicallythat that certainly helped.
So, yeah, combined with all of those, I think that really,
yeah, it was a bit of the recipefor my for my success in those

(34:55):
years. And, and I had some good coaches
along the way, really good training squad, good support
from federations, all of those things that you need, they all
need to align at the same time, which I was lucky enough to
have. And yeah, really, really good
training squads that made it fun.
You know, I, I genuinely for a lot of my years was training,

(35:15):
spending, you know, 30 hours a week training, but also months
away on training camps and European being in Australia, we,
we tend to have to go to Europe for four or five months of the
year. And we had a good squad and that
made it fun. And yeah, so I think a lot of
these things need to line up to,to, to, you know, for a

(35:36):
successful athlete to, to sort of flourish over, you know, the
years that I felt like I was able to be successful, which was
quite a quite a long period. And like I said, that success
has changed a little bit over the years or what it looks like
to me. But yeah, I think that those
sort of recipes that you need orthose those sort of aspects that

(35:59):
you need, the ones that really helped, I think helped me have
the the successful years that I had.
When you were mentioning earlierkind of this concept of you, no
matter, no matter what happened,you felt like you always had a
little bit more to to grab afterthe mountaintop was just a
little bit beyond reach and you had something else to strive

(36:20):
for. Do you think or have you, I'm
curious to know if you've ever met an athlete within triathlon
or outside of triathlete to feelyou feel like that they had got
to that point and there was nothing else to go for.
Like, I'm, I, I wanted like get into the head of anybody who's
ever won the world championship or gold, you know, after

(36:40):
Christian Bloom felt won gold, like they always usually want
more, it seems. Yeah, I think so, yeah.
I mean, it's it's human nature, right?
You know, I think so. I'm not unique in that aspect.
But not being satisfied, I guessis what comes to mind, is a is a
trait that a lot of elite athletes have.

(37:01):
And again, in my twilight years,I just wish sometimes I could
just go back and go, why weren'tyou happy that you got.
Yeah, just third at 3rd at the World Series race on the podium
with Alistair and Jonathan, you know, one of my best ever races.
Why couldn't you just appreciatethat rather than go, oh, yeah.
But, you know, Javier Gomez got a flat tire so that, you know,

(37:23):
if he didn't get the flat tire, you would have got fourth.
It was kind of like, that is my exact mindset at that time in
that race. Yeah, of course I was happy to
get third, but I always just felt like I needed to keep
working hard because I got lucky.
It wasn't because of all the work that I put together over
the years, it was because I got a bit of luck is how I viewed it

(37:45):
at the time. Yeah.
Where, where does that come from?
Is that is, is there anything underlying that where that
belief system came from? I don't know where it came from
as in or why, but I think it was, yeah.
Like, I just never really thought I was.
I didn't think I was a an athlete that was that good to be

(38:08):
able to stand on the World Series podium.
Which seems crazy, yeah, to me. Yeah, but it it is, it is crazy.
I, I probably wish I was more confident in myself a lot of the
times I think I I could have maybe done had a a lot better
results than I did. But I don't know where that

(38:28):
comes from. No, Yeah.
But it's, it is what it is, I guess.
And I it also is partly, I think, why I did have some good
results as well, because I, I always felt like I, yeah, like I
said, I I really needed things to go right.
I needed to work harder than notwork harder than everyone.
But in my mind, I felt like I needed to work harder than

(38:50):
everyone else because I wasn't good enough to beat them
otherwise. Yeah, no, that's a trait of a
lot of I'll compare men because that's what I know, just because
I'm a guy and the way that I have operated, you know, I
hesitate to say this because everyone's not the same, but I
want to go out in a limb a little bit to to make an

(39:12):
assumption and tell me if I'm wrong.
But it seems like with men, as we grow up and we are driven,
we're usually trying to impress someone.
Like for me it was I was trying to impress my dad.
I lost him at a young age. And so it very quickly I
replaced that void with all of these men who I deemed were
respectable, that I wanted to impress them in some way to a

(39:32):
degree of which I would tell myself these kind of false
stories and realities to kind offit that narrative in my head to
make myself like, I think just cope and and be OK.
But you had a really good relationship with your dad, it
sounds like. But was there a part of you that
was, you think, ever seeking to have a different level of
validation from him or another figure in your life to kind of

(39:53):
say like, no, you are good enough, Like you are meant to be
here because the imposter syndrome, you know, telling
yourself that I was luck. Have your have have you get the
flat, you know, like that's a lot of self talk that usually
stems back, I think from like some level of insecurity with
how someone else views this thatwe care about.
Am I wrong in that do you think?Not wrong per SE, but it it

(40:19):
probably stemmed a bit more fromthe coach that I had at the
time. So the the coach I had was my
coach from when I was 13 to 26. So for a large portion of that,
he was a father figure. And I moved when I was 17 to be
there as well. And he was quite a stoic man.

(40:42):
And yeah, I guess probably neverreally gave you the validation
that you actually did well. And, you know, he did.
He did some really good things as a coach.
And yeah, we had a, we had a a really good run of, of it.
But yeah, it probably stems a little bit from that.
And also, yeah, feeling like he he was always a level headed

(41:09):
kind of guy. So his emotions never got too
high as in terms of race results, you know, So when you
did well, there was never like this big elation and when you
did bad as well. And at the same time, there was
never like the the world's caving in.
He kind of kept a pretty level head.
But yeah, I think probably it stems from from that not, not

(41:32):
really knowing where you stood alittle bit, not getting that
validation that no, he actually did a good job.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting.
Have you seen the movie Whiplash?
I've heard it, but I haven't seen it, no.
So I, I watched it somewhat recently the past year or so.
And if you, you, I, your musicalto a degree, I know you like

(41:54):
singing. I read that as well.
So you, I think you would reallyappreciate this, which I do have
some questions about your singing at some point.
But in this movie, there's the concept drawn that to to reach
greatness, to reach the absolutepinnacle of what it means to be
perfection as humanely possible,you have to almost starve a

(42:15):
person of one level or degree ofaffirmation so that they are
constantly grasping for it. And you know, I think of the
like race dogs. I know for certain types of
greyhound race dogs, like they will basically give them just
enough food to where that they can explode the line, but they
want them to be hungry so that they're going for the line
finished so that they can eat. And I feel like there that

(42:38):
happens a lot with human behavior, but it can leave some
level of like mental stated trauma because like, you know,
to to undo that belief that like, I was just lucky because
whatever you go to do next, likeI was just lucky.
I had a good kid and they turnedout to be whatever, you know,
like it's like you have to undo that.
So do you think that it's possible to to train someone to

(42:59):
be the best while giving them the affirmation that they need?
Yes, I, I do think that you can.So I was just because you, you
brought up the greyhound analogyand my dad was actually a

(43:20):
greyhound trainer. So it was bringing me back to
that. Oh, that's sick.
Tell me about that. That's awesome.
We can come back to that. No, he used to.
His dad also raced greyhounds, but yeah, he was a greyhound
trainer, raced greyhounds. That was my whole childhood as
well, going to the greyhound track as he was, as he was
training them. Yeah.
No, it was quite an epic upbringing.

(43:42):
We always had like 3 or 4 greyhounds in our yard, but
yeah, yeah. And I was super, super fast.
Yeah. I don't even remember their
starving them, but I do. I do remember that they would,
which you can't do now, but you did back then.
Because in the greyhound race, they never catch what they're
chasing, right? So the the electric Bunny always

(44:05):
gets away from them. Yeah.
So greyhounds lose that that instinct to race for it like,
well, you, we never get it. So why do I want to race for it?
So they would often give them live ones to chase.
It's very much, very much frowned upon now.
You can't do it. But yeah, they used to do that.

(44:27):
Because they'll eat it. What?
Yeah, yeah, they, they're hunters.
So they would, they would put them into a field with a, a
rabbit or a whatever it may be and they just go and tear it to
shreds basically. Yeah.
Well. Hopefully they eat it, yeah.
Yeah, well, yeah, I guess so. But yeah, you definitely, it's
live baiting. You definitely can't do it now,

(44:48):
but it was definitely your thingthat was used.
I mean, we're talking 3025 yearsago now.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I when when you mentioned theGreyhounds, I was just thinking
of that. I I kinda missed the last bit of
the question. It's OK I'll ask in a second but
I have to just bring up my my inlaws.
They have a, a miniature grey like a whip it and it's funny

(45:08):
because we have my dog who he's an Australian shepherd, which is
very much a runner. Like he would go on 1560 mile
runs with me in the past. And then they have a, a German
shepherd. But when we throw a ball and all
three of them go for it, it's just so funny because the
whippet literally is like not even trying.
And then when it turns on the speed, it's just unreal to watch
those dogs tear through a field without even trying.

(45:31):
And the other dogs are just dying to try to get it.
But it's so fast. I I love that it's just such a
fun thing to watch. 100% yeah. Next level those those animals.
Yeah, I actually forgot the question.
I think it was similar around wewe were talking about the dogs.
Oh, yeah. And I asked you.
Yeah. Like if you think that it's
possible to give that level of affirmation and, and to help

(45:54):
someone be the best. Because I feel like there's a
few people who I've met who havea very positive and healthy
mindset and their world championship material.
But then there's others where it's like they are chasing or
running from some kind of demon that gives them the fuel to to
do what they want to do. Yeah, or whether it's a demon or

(46:15):
whether it's a, you know, I've listened to we, we spoke about
yarn. I've listened to a, a podcast
with him and he along similar lines as well.
Not that he didn't think he was not that good.
You know, I don't think he ever mentioned that, but he always
felt like he needed to work really, really hard and he was

(46:39):
not the best, not the most talented guy there.
And so I, I do think that is a common trait with a lot of
athletes that they always have something missing and something
that they're chasing. Basically, they don't always, a
lot of people think that elite athletes have their shit

(46:59):
together. They're super confident.
They're boisterous, they're fullof bravado and they think that
they're the best athlete in the world where it's not the case,
You know, it's, it's really not.I think a lot of people have
something and, and maybe you maybe it is the demons, whatever
it is, but they have something there that's holding them back

(47:21):
from time to time. And, you know, I think there's a
lot of really, really good athletes out there.
And that's what I, I actually admire about those athletes that
stay on top for a very, very long time because, you know,
they are, they've been able to manage that.
They've been able to manage whatever it is that maybe their
kryptonite. They've been able to manage that

(47:44):
and and still perform, which I Ireally admire.
Yeah, the external pressures, the expectations of others that
somehow become our our own whenever we reach a level
because we we like that affirmation when we've crossed
the finish line and everyone wants your autograph.
But it's crazy because even in things like the Olympics, you're
talking about the fourth place, who is sometimes hundredths of a

(48:06):
second behind. But then they're forgotten into
obscurity when for all intents and purposes, they are the for
that day or a week ago, they could have been first.
They could have been, you know. Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, I mean you, I I lived withthat.
My wife was was 4th at Rio Olympics, only a couple of
seconds behind the podium, who was a housemaid at the time,

(48:27):
Vicky Holland, that were good friends.
They are still good friends. She was they were both
bridesmaid bridesmaids at each other's wedding.
But yeah, she really, really struggled with that, that 4th
place. And because she put so much of
herself worth into that. And on any other day, it could
have been different. You know, I think she was

(48:50):
definitely good enough to to podium and she wrestled with
that. And and it probably, you know,
to be honest, probably took her a couple of years to finally.
She'll never be able to watch the race.
You know, she'd never be able tobring up.
She'll she'll never be able to watch the replay.
She she doesn't even know the results.
Like she knows who was in front of her.
But even just the other day we were talking about someone that

(49:11):
finished fifth and she's like, oh, was she 5th?
I didn't realize she was in fifth.
Yeah. So it's, yeah, I don't know
where, but yeah, she, she put somuch of A self worth into that
that that she really struggled off the back of that.
Yeah. How did you, what was your
mindset from when you went to the Olympics first time and then
when you're leaving expectation,reality versus, you know, what

(49:34):
actually happened and the comingdown of that high?
Yeah, it's it's actually an interesting 1.
So I, none and I were together at the Olympics.
So Rio we raced a couple, the men raced a couple of days
before her race. I finished 9th and so how I look

(49:54):
at it now is completely different to how I look at it at
the time. At the time I failed, I went
into that race if everything went well and I raced to my the
best that I could, I probably was in with a shot of a podium.
And that the results that I had in the say the previous 12
months before suggested that that was the case.

(50:17):
And I didn't, I completely failed and I left that games
like gutted, underwhelmed, just really, really flat.
And then compounded with the fact that my now wife, my my

(50:38):
partner or girlfriend at the time was was fourth, it was a
really anticlimactic Olympic Games.
And I really like for my wife itit like, you know, she came back
from that and and she put it together some some really good

(50:59):
results, but like she never probably was never the same
athlete. And she would admit that she was
probably never the same athlete.But I was determined that I
wanted to put that behind me andreally try and come back
stronger and better off for it and grow from that experience,
which I think I did. But even now to this day,

(51:22):
funnily enough, actually the only so I mentioned that my wife
couldn't watch the still can't watch the Rio race.
I only watched it for the first time probably back about two
years ago, 2 or maybe actually we've gone on it.
So COVID was a while ago. COVID feels like it wasn't that
long ago. But yeah, probably during,
during COVID on a train ride, I watched it.
So it's probably six years afterthe race.

(51:44):
It's the first time that I couldactually bring myself to
watching that race. And not not so much because it
still hurt, but I just was like,I don't need to see it.
I don't. I know.
I know what happened. I know it wasn't good enough.
I don't need to go and watch it back again.
But now I look back at it completely different.

(52:04):
And I don't know whether that's because I look at it now and go,
man, I would love to be in a yeah, in a position where I
could finish top ten at the Olympic Games.
Yeah. And so it, it maybe feels a
little bit more foreign to me, I'm not sure.
But I guess as well, just growing up and maturing, ageing,
I think, you know, that sort of that does happen.

(52:26):
And I look at it now and I, I can be quite proud of that.
I know I didn't give him the best version of myself on that
day, but I was still proud of the effort and the journey that
we went through to get there. And even though we, we made
mistakes, I think we made like in decisions that we did within

(52:46):
our preparation, I think I'm happy that we, we made those
decisions and we, we went with awith conviction and, and gave it
everything that we had thinking that they were the right
decisions at the time. And that's all you can ask for,
I think. And yeah, it's it, it, it was a
tough pill to swallow, but because everyone on the, on the

(53:08):
biggest day, on the biggest stage, you want it to be the
best result. And it just wasn't the, or the
best version of yourself. And whatever that result is, the
result is. But I just know it wasn't.
And I guess that was the hardestthing to, to really come to
terms with. But yeah, I look at it quite
differently now and, and could be quite proud of it.
And then, you know, the, the radio, sorry, the Tokyo Olympics

(53:31):
was a a different story. I was there as a domestique and
so I was there to to help our team player.
And again, we didn't get our objectives, but it was a
definitely different sort of feeling for me.
Whereas like I, I still look at it and go, I wish I could have
done a better job or a differentjob, not a not a different job.

(53:54):
I maybe could have done things alittle bit different, but I
still effectively did what I wasthere to do.
I I helped get Jake Burtwhistle was the guy that was the guy
that had shown up until that point that he was a medal
contender. And so we were there to to help
him and his swim was what he waslacking a little bit.
So I was there to try and bring him up to the front, which we
managed to do. But yeah, yeah, it was a, a

(54:19):
different experience. I think that that Tokyo one
where is, you know, my, my own personal feelings about the
games weren't reliant on my own personal results, they were
reliant on other people's results.
And so whilst I'm disappointed that we didn't get the results

(54:39):
to the team, I, I, I look at it slightly different to how I look
at Rio. Yeah, yeah, the, it's a
different pressure, I feel like.I mean, I've never experienced
anything remotely like that, butI I would imagine like, yeah,
when you were coming back from the second games, were you
comparing and contrasting your experience from the first?

(55:05):
A little, a little bit, yeah. I mean, it was a it was a tough
time for triathlon within Australia.
The whole team performed quite bad, I'd say, you know, two of
the two of the females got lapped out.
Our relay team got lapped. Jake didn't perform to the way

(55:26):
he was capable. And yeah, I mean, Matt Hauser
and I were there as team domestiques.
And, you know, we we kind of dida role that we didn't.
It wasn't satisfying. And so, yeah, coming off the
back of that was, was a challenge.

(55:47):
And how, how I viewed it was, was quite different.
I think because whilst, whilst after Rio I was disappointed, a
lot of people around me were, were quite happy for me.
The lady that's that's a great result.
You came tent through the Olympic Games, you know, and and

(56:08):
those closer to me knew that I was a bit disappointed, but the
vast majority we're like, you know, way to go, you know, top
ten of the Olympic Games. That's pretty bloody awesome.
Whereas at Tokyo, the whole teamunderperformed and we're from a
rich triathlon nation and we copped a lot of criticism and

(56:29):
that was quite tough, especiallylike I said, for the those guys
that were there racing in the relay team and, and for Jake
that was there racing to get theresult and those that got lapped
out. So yeah, yeah, I think we, we
probably as a team struggled offthe back of that quite a lot.

(56:50):
And, and fairly like, you know, rightly, like I said, Australia
expect a lot from their athletesand, and we underperform.
So there comes a level of of criticism with that.
You feel like that bridges were burned with any people because
of the performance. Is everybody cordial?

(57:11):
Not between the athletes at least.
No, no, I think we, we actually stuck maybe a little bit with
the federation. Yeah, yeah.
I think, you know, it's, it's really hard to know what the
right answer was or the, or the white right approach, especially
throughout COVID. So yeah, we were in Australia,
we were locked. We were locked within the

(57:31):
country. When we were in the country,
things were pretty good, right? We could swim, we could, our
life was pretty normal, but we just couldn't leave the country.
And so the whole Olympic team hadn't raced a world level race
between September 2019 and basically the Olympics which was
2021. So that you almost gone two

(57:52):
years where the rest of the world or most of the world it
albeit it was very limited. There was probably four or five.
I think there's 4 World Series slash World Cups that went on in
Europe in 2020 that the rest of the world got to race and the,
the decision by trust in Australia was made to keep us in
Australia. And, and so, and I'm not

(58:14):
criticizing that because I know it was a tough decision and no
one knew at the time what the right one was to make.
But in hindsight, I think it wasnot the right one.
And yeah, there's been some backlash offered the whole, the
whole, you know, the whole team or their staff or the, the

(58:35):
entire high performance sort of journey, not journey.
The whole high performance staffhave have been sifted.
Yeah, yeah. Interesting.
Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I want to ask you just a
couple more questions. First one, in the pursuit of
this triathlon career, I mean, even from a very young age, like

(58:57):
you had to make sacrifices. I'd be curious to know what are
like in your mind, some of the sacrifices that really stand
out. And is there any sacrifice that
you made for this sport that youactually have regret about
sacrificing? Steve, this is one thing that my
my first coach or my one of my former coaches always used to
say it's it's an investment, nota sacrifice.

(59:21):
Have you made about investments?Yeah, not into rifle.
Maybe it's some cryptocurrency. Probably.
Trump coin. Yeah.
Melania Coin. Yeah, Yeah.
Have I made any? Wow.

(59:46):
No, I don't think. I don't think I have.
Or at least there's certainly been some decisions that I've
made that haven't paid off like that.
That's there's no doubt that's happened.
Yeah, but I think I can look back at the end of my, when my,
when my career finishes and go, I'm happy with the decisions

(01:00:08):
that I made along the way. I think I've LED a a really
disciplined life, but also a quite a balanced life.
I think I've been quite lucky that I've had very understanding
family from my parents where and.
Other extended family where I'vemissed, I've missed family
funerals, I've missed weddings, I've missed countless birthdays.

(01:00:33):
Mother's Day is Father's Days and they've always been very,
very understanding and that always helps.
Obviously a very understanding wife.
She understands it now, now she's been retired, but she
knows that thankfully she's herewith me in, in Geronia.
Well, luckily that she's here with me in Geronia, but there's,
you know, last year when I was on the full T102 where I was or

(01:00:54):
10 races mixed in with, excuse me, other races and training
camps. I was probably away for
honestly, could have been half of the year.
I I would have to I would have to do the maths and that, but it
could have been close to that. And yeah, so I say that because
thankfully my wife was very understanding for any other,

(01:01:16):
anyone else that could be relationship ending, right.
And then potentially if that wasthe case, then I would sit here
and probably say if that for me,if I'm sitting here and go,
yeah, well, yeah, I do regret that.
Like that, that sacrifice wasn'tworth it.
So I guess there's a lot of circumstances that helped me be

(01:01:38):
be able to sit in this position and say, I don't think right now
that there's been an investment or a sacrifice that I've made
that I regret. Yeah, that's beautiful.
I don't know if everybody can say that, but you have to have
the right people surrounding you.
It sounds like it's a big proponent for having the ability
to not have regrets in in in this kind of a sport, for sure.

(01:02:02):
Yeah, definitely. So just two more questions.
First one, are you a religious person?
Are you spiritual person? I'm not no, no, no.
My wife is a little bit so I've well, her family is she's not,
but no, I'm not no. Yeah, you do.
You typically refrain from cursing, cussing.

(01:02:25):
I no, but I I think I have on this podcast, haven't.
I you have as I was wondering I was like, is he just being
really nice or is this a normal?Thing.
No, no, no, no. I Yeah, I know.
Yeah, Americans tend to not like, sorry, don't is that or if
I misjudge. That I think that that's
definitely what it used to be and in in public discourse.

(01:02:48):
But yeah, I mean, I, I don't typically unless I'm like scared
out of my mind, like I pulled intalking kind of traffic
yesterday and something slipped out, but I typically don't.
But yeah, I think it's chill so.I'm I'm Australian, so we have a
pretty foul mouth. Yeah, I mean, why?
Why Australians? Is it just because you have to

(01:03:08):
survive from being eaten by giant things and spiders the
size of your face? Everything in Australia wants to
kill you, whether it's the sharks, the spiders, the snakes,
the crocodiles, the motorists. When you're on your bike,
everything out there is out to kill you.
So yeah, you have to be tough down under.
Yeah, So you like singing? Tell me no.

(01:03:28):
See, that's what I laughed. Was that a joke?
When you put that on as a joke. No.
SO I mentioned, did we say it off air or on air?
I can't remember about my my website being quite a few years
old. I think it was on the pod I
think. Anyway, it's a very, it's very,
very old and my first ever girlfriend probably 15 years ago

(01:03:54):
helped me with the website and she stitched me up from back
then said it says like I like singing, singing and dancing.
Is that right? Something like that.
I'm gonna look it up really quick about Yeah, it's for under
hobbies, I think. Travel, singing, dancing,
reading, movies. Yeah, I don't read, I don't sing
and I don't dance. So firstly, don't get me so

(01:04:16):
this. Is your girlfriend's about Paige
then your ex? Well, my ex ex-girlfriend from
yeah, 15 years ago that she stitched me up.
No, it's not even her. She just thought it was funny.
She she helped me fill it out. And then I just never, I've just
never edited it, to be honest. I I get, I have actually had
that in a podcast about well, five years ago, someone say the
same thing. I said I really need to go on

(01:04:37):
and either edit that or shut that down.
Yeah, but it's kind of funny. That's fine, but don't get me to
sing, please, because I'm. I'm a terrible singer.
I will, I will do so then last thing, give give some advice to
yourself, to the OR to the type of guy or gal who's coming up in
the sport and is, you know, maybe 17/18/19 years old.

(01:04:58):
They have their eyes set on the moon.
Expectations are completely unfair and unrealistic to
themselves. Like what kind of advice would
you give to them so that maybe they can learn a little bit
without having to experience some of the hardship?
Yeah, I think so. I, I, I said the quote so that I
I do really like that stonecutter quote.

(01:05:18):
But you, you know, it's, it's a message in perseverance really,
you're really in this sport. It, it really rewards
perseverance, people willing to go the journey.
Everyone these days wants instant gratification.

(01:05:40):
We all do. And you're not going to get it
in this sport. It's too hard.
It, it really rewards the, the one that's really stuck at it
for a long time. It's an endurance based sport,
so it tends to favour those thathave, you know, been through a
lot of hours of training. So yeah, I think, I think those

(01:06:05):
two ones don't look for instant gratification.
You're in the in the wrong sportif, if that's what you're after.
And yeah, keep hitting away at that stone because eventually it
will crack into even if you don't see it.
Beautiful. Well, Aaron, thank you so much
for taking the time, man. I really appreciate it.
If you are going to always be inGirona, I would love to go there

(01:06:26):
someday, so I'll have to try to seek you out or something.
But yeah, thanks for taking the time and sharing.
No, thanks, Seth, thanks for having me.
And yeah, Drona is an awesome place.
Great coffee, great food, great cycling, great weather.
So yeah, go check it out. Thanks.
Thank you so much to Aaron for coming on the pod and allowing
me to dive into his life. I love stumping people with

(01:06:48):
questions. Even though it's these key
questions that I typically ask almost every guest, I need to
come up with some new ones. So if you guys have any ideas of
how of questions that I should ask that you find really
interesting or make people thinkin a different light, let me
know. But again, Aaron, thank you so
much for coming on. Really appreciate that time
getting to spend with you. And for all of you now

(01:07:08):
listening, just want to say thank you so much for being
here. If you do want to check out the
socks from Bamboo works that we partnered on getting made, they
say on them who am I, which is kind of cool for The Who
question I typically ask. And then they have a little 25%
off disc code, discount code on the back and they have the SQ
logo and they are really cool blue colours.

(01:07:29):
So check those out in the show notes below.
If you are listening on YouTube,please like comment, subscribe,
hit the follow button. If you are listening on any of
the podcast platforms, if you could comment, like review those
really those things really help continue to grow the podcast, as
I've said a billion times before.
So check out the show notes. Thank you guys so much for being
here. Thank you again to Aaron and we
will catch you guys in the next one piece.