#157 - John Calabrese, Ultra Runner, Dad and Caregiver - Stupid Questions with Seth Hill

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, how's it going, everybody? Welcome back to another edition
of the Stupid Questions podcast.Can't believe we're already on
157. Just want to say that I'm glad
you're here. And today we're going to be
talking with John Calabrese. He is an ultra runner, endurance
guy, also a caregiver, a dad andmany other things.
He's an awesome guy. I got to meet him on Instagram.
He's he's been listening to the podcast for quite a while and I

(00:22):
decided to say, hey, we should have you on.
It'd be fun to get to know you alittle bit.
And he has a lot of good storiesabout being in the Navy and just
living life and having good experiences there that he can
share some wisdom with. So without further ado, want to
introduce you to John and also check out the show notes for
some socks. All right, here comes John.
John, thank you so much for taking the time, for allowing me

(00:44):
to have the opportunity to talk to you.
And know that we've been chatting probably man, for over
a year, a little bit off and on.But a good amount of time.
Thank thank you for having me finally.
Yeah man, for sure. Thanks so much for listening.
When What is the first episode you ever heard?
I'm just curious. Oh wow.
So I listen to a lot of podcastsjust like over the years, like
it's hard to, it's hard to like pin down a specific one.

(01:06):
I I just like look at reels and stuff like whenever I can.
Yeah, yeah. Awesome dude.
Sweet. So where are you at right now?
So I'm at my buddy's house, Donald.
I'm in his brother's room. This is the most quiet spot in
the house. So Donald's got three younger
brothers and they're like wrecking stuff downstairs.
So this is the this is the quiet, quiet spot.
Yeah, for sure. What state are you in?

(01:27):
I'm in Virginia. Nice.
How far away is your place from?Oh wow, so man, when I my days
are long, man. So I'm about an hour away, but
at I'm going to the gym after this.
So I'm going to go there. Then I'm going to go home.
I probably not go home till likeprobably like 11 midnight,
something like that. Yeah, but, you know, make it

(01:49):
happen. Yeah, for sure, man.
Well, I guess first step would love to kind of dive into a
little bit of who you are. So I'll ask you the old famous
question like, who is John? Oh, wow, that that's, I don't
even know, man. That's a.
That's a. That's a loaded question, man.
Take as. Much time as you want.
Basically, you know, I'm just, Ithink I'm on my 5th or 6th life

(02:12):
by now, you know? Yeah, you know, just yeah.
I don't even know how I got here, man.
I've done a lot of stuff. I was a really shy kid at school
growing up, you know, just I joined the military and you just
started to come out of my shell some.
That's where I, you know, between the military and I guess
like in school, I, I, I started kind of liking running, but the

(02:34):
military kind of brought that out more.
And then like family also my family, you know, they're
runners, but I never really liked that.
I didn't have a discipline and Iliked other sports.
But then, yeah, I mean, like, I,I had a messy divorce and to
kind of cope through that, Yeah.But running helped.
And I mean, it's not a complete fix.

(02:54):
You know, you still got to go totherapy and do the other things
too. But running really helped.
And yeah, that's, that's me, man.
I like to do a lot of crazy adventures and meet, mainly meet
people that do ultras, especially the real messed up
ultras like Barkley, Paul Classic and that kind of stuff.
I like, I like to meet the wild people out there.
And I hope the sport stays weird'cause that if not, I don't want

(03:15):
to be in it. Yeah.
Why? You know, that's interesting
because when I first started getting into triathlon at the
that same time, I was really biginto entrepreneurship.
And there's this guy I met in the business world downtown
Chattanooga. His name was Daniel, and he was
just going through, at the time,I didn't know this, but he was

(03:37):
going through a pretty nasty divorce as well.
And he was doing some crazy like100 mile or 200 mile or races,
was a very good runner. So I started running with him
quite a bit. And he said something that
really since I've gotten to knowmore people, especially on this
podcast and whatnot with the ultra endurance athletes, it
seems to be like somebody's always running from something or
running to something, which running can be therapy for sure.

(04:00):
Obviously, I guess you have experienced that, but it's
interesting. It helps.
I mean, yeah, it's weird. It's it's really weird how I got
into it. I mean, it's not conventional
and yeah, it's, but it's definitely helped.
And I think again, meeting people also that for some
whatever reason, like it attracts people that I think

(04:22):
that are, you know, a lot of broken people and you can like
relate to them and have some good conversations out there.
I mean, I've, I've met some really good people out here.
Yeah, for sure. So take me back a little bit, I
guess in your younger years whenyou were first starting to
consider the military service. Because I went through a stent
where I talked to a couple of recruiters and was at a point
where I made a decision. I was either going to go this

(04:42):
direction or go that direction. And I was pretty close that I
was going to go into the military, but never did.
So tell me, I guess, what led upto that decision?
What were you looking for and how did it pan out?
That's tough. So like I joined during a very
strange time. So like I was, you know, I had
like, you know, my high school sweetheart and stuff like that.
She was going to like a good school at Virginia Tech and like

(05:03):
to kind of hang on it to be nearher.
I went to a nearby like a smaller school didn't work out.
And yeah, so I joined the military and basically, I guess
just as an escape kinda, you know, just to kind of had to do
something. So I just joined it.
And yeah, I mean, like, it was, it was right.

(05:23):
But basically I joined like right before 911.
And when the coal got bombed, so, like, it was so weird in
boot camp, they were, they wouldtell us like, you're never going
to have a Vietnam in your lifetime.
You guys are so lucky. You're going to get a carefree
paycheck and tour the world. None of that happened.
You know, we got into, you know,stuff in the Middle East and
yeah, it was wild. I mean, like, no one saw that

(05:45):
coming. At least I I mean, I didn't.
I was like, yeah, I'm doing thiswith, oh, when I joined I was 19
or 20, I think 19, yeah, 19. And then, yeah, it was really
funny too. So in the military, they give
you a dream sheet where you wantto get stationed.
The three locations #1 everyone said I was an idiot because I
put Norfolk number one, just because I'm from Virginia.

(06:08):
It's pretty close to home. But they're like all the places
in the world, you want to go to Norfolk, you're an idiot.
But so I had that #1 #2 San Diego.
I'm like, you know, what if I, if I got to see, you know, the
other side of the country, mightas well just go there.
You know, it's a cool place. Learn how to surf or something.
And then third, I was like, you know, screw it, I'll put Hawaii.
The Navy's messed up like this, man, Wherever is like the

(06:30):
furthest spot away, they're going to take you away from your
home. They gave me Hawaii, of course,
didn't expect that or anything, but that's where I was stationed
and it was, but it kind of sucked, man, just because during
9/11 and like, you know, that, that, that time frame, like
right after we, we were on a port and starboard watch duty
sections, sections. And that's the right word.
So, so like we didn't get the we, it was like one day on, one

(06:54):
day off. So like we were on the ship one
day, off the ship one day, but even on that off day we didn't
really get to do much. You know, we were stuck on the
ship just working or getting theship like ready to be underway
'cause we didn't know what was going to happen, like where we
would have to go. And it was tough, man.
It was a really tough time to beyoung and away from home and
something like that happened. Did you get homesick for like,
were you pretty close with your parents?

(07:15):
Oh yeah, and just friends and just like, you know, missing
like like an ex-girlfriend, stuff like that.
I mean, it was, it's probably like the best thing, but worst
thing also. I mean, I'm sure it caused a lot
of psychological trauma. And then like, you know, of
course, you know, 911 and thingsof that nature.
But yeah, man, it was, I don't know if it was good.
I I really can't tell you if it was a good or bad experience.
I mean, I did some amazing partying there also.

(07:36):
I got to be in Hawaii. But at the same time, I mean, it
was, it was, it's not what I expected when I joined.
I'm going to tell you that. Yeah.
How many years were you in the service?
Oh, I was in for five. And I mean, it was really cool.
I got to see everything, man. I went to Australia a bunch of
times. I saw Hong Kong, I went to Hong
Kong, I've been to Tokyo. Like it was so funny.
I went so many different places.I went to like places like that
before I even like went to New York City or Boston.

(07:59):
It's just, it was wild. It was a good experience.
But you know, it's, it is tough.It's a tough life.
That's why I didn't stay. And I would have, yeah, I'd
probably be dead, man, just fromdrinking and partying and just
being an idiot. So like, yeah, I, I knew it
wasn't for me, but it was a goodexperience just to kind of see
the world and to become an adult.
Yeah. What do you think was the
catalyst for you becoming quote UN quote an adult?

(08:22):
I'm still trying to get there, man, but it's a, it's a never
ending process. But for me, I mean, like I
always wanted, even at a young age, I wanted a kid, you know,
like I wanted a family, I wanteda kid.
And so like, also like, you know, I had my daughter at when
I was in my 30s and you know, I think that's that, that's when I
became an adult basically. Because at that point, you know,

(08:43):
can't be an idiot. You have to be a good role
model. And that's pretty much why I
started running and doing stuff also cause 'cause I wanted to,
you know, be in shape and be a good role model.
So my daughter wanted to do sports also and to do things and
to push for her dreams. Yeah.
How old is your daughter? She right now is 11 and she's, I
call her 11 teen because she's ateenager now.

(09:04):
She's yeah, she's she's in, she's in that.
Yeah. She's in that that stage.
Have you passed from the stage of Dad is cool and awesome too
now Dad is weird and. Yeah, I think I'm getting there.
See, it's it that's tough, man. I mean, yeah, I mean, in ways
it's kind of cool because like, she wants to do her own thing
and she's doing great and like, dances are sport.

(09:24):
Like I, I wasn't one of those parents that like made her
specialize in something I wantedher to do.
I I had her try all kinds of different sports, like
everything from like lacrosse tobasketball.
She, she did writing for a long time and, you know, dances are
things. So she loves doing that and I
love watching her do that. So yeah, but she's like real
independent now. And I, yeah, I guess I'm an,

(09:45):
I've got an embarrassment. So like, it's cool that I can do
more races and stuff now, but atthe same time, I do miss like
the bond that we have. But I know it's there.
It's just that she's in that phase where I'm not the coolest
dude anymore. Yeah, So fill in the gap for me,
I guess post military service, you know, you realize you want
to be a dad, Obviously there's arelationship that has to happen
there. And then you're now racing what?

(10:07):
How do all these things conjoin and then come to modern day?
So I mean, like the divorce did a lot to it.
Like it was, it was pretty ugly,just so, you know, a lot of time
wasted and stuff like that. And it got it got to me.
So like I just finally I was like, I want to do something for
me. And, you know, again, the
military planted the seeds. So like I, I wanted to at some

(10:28):
point run a marathon and I, I'd done like 5 KS of family before,
like local 5 KS that we like to do and stuff like that.
So yeah, basically during the divorce, I was like, I'm gonna
do something for me. I'm gonna you know, do a
marathon. And once the marathon was over,
I never looked back, man. I just kept upping the Annie and
just, you know, start running trails and got into the Barkley
Fall Classic. And then that was really over

(10:50):
from there. Because I, I, that's because
again, that's where I started meeting all these ultra runners
that are just wild and their stories.
And, you know, I just identifiedwith them and I was like, these
are my people. That's the one that the Barclay
is the continuous loop, right? It's like 4 miles.
Is that? The one Oh no, so that's the
backyard, the backyard ultra dude, I've done a few of those
man. And it's disgusting.
I mean, I was having this conversation today basically

(11:13):
like it's awesome. They can get like a lot of those
runners can go so far, but I've the most I've ever done is 100K
and one of those. And when I got to that point I
was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
You know, it's a loop. I want to go home.
I can understand like there's longer races like you know, like
203 hundred even like you know, Ball State level and all that
stuff. But because you're seeing other
stuff, it's an adventure. But if you're just doing a loop,
man, that you know, you got you got stuff to do, you got kids.

(11:36):
Yeah, you're like my cars are I'm looking at my car, man.
Should I go on this other loop? Yeah, I don't know, tell.
Me about the Barclay Marathon, then I don't.
Or the Ultra? I guess I don't know much about
that. So there's two Blas has two
races. One of one of them is like the
big one, the one that you know it, that's real selective of who
they let in and everything. The one that the you tear out

(11:57):
the book pages and it's real like, you know, not much aid out
there. I think there's just water.
But the fall classic is the one that that you know, you just you
know, you just register. I mean, it's hard to get in just
because so many people want to get in and like feel the
Berkeley experience. But it's just a shorter version
of the Berkeley marathons. There's actually aid stations,

(12:18):
but it's still the same course. It sucks.
It's still the same course, but it's just, you know, it's more
watered down and it's not as long.
So if you ever do want to get a feel for the Berkeley, you can
enter the Fall Classic and see what that's all about.
Yeah. What are some of the things that
really set the Berkeley Marathonapart that people, when they
hear it, they're like, oh, that's that.
Like what are some of the thingsthat make it unique?

(12:40):
To me, like I, I know some people are really good technical
runners, but I'm not and like for me it's like not even
running like it's like sliding on your butt down mountains, you
know, climb, actually climbing up stuff.
It's like an obstacle course race, man, that's an ultra
marathon. I, I, that's the best I can
describe it. It's just, it's wild like, and
for me, like I, I don't, I don'tpractice climbing or like bear

(13:01):
crawling or any of that stuff. I mean, I just, yeah, I just,
you know, I go to the gym now more, I'm getting better about
cross training. But like, yeah, I mean, like,
you just have to be in really good shape to do this stuff
'cause I, I think for me, what'sthe hardest part about it is
like once you do some of the harder sections on the course
and also the course names, the names of some of the sections on
the course are hilarious, like Rat Jaw, testicle spectacle,

(13:24):
meth lab. So like, yeah, once you're done,
like with stuff like that, like can you run again after when you
actually get like, you know, that little stretch of Rd. that
you get to get you? I mean, basically anything you
can run on, basically you have to run to make up that time.
If you're walking on any of thatstuff, you're not going to,
you're not going to make the final cut off.
So, oh, and that's not, that's another thing about the fall
classics too. There's two different way to

(13:47):
ways to finish. So actually 31 you can DNF and
not get anything at all. Basically, you know, it just
didn't finish. Then there's a marathon finish
and then there's the 50K. Now, once you get to the
marathon point, Blas is there and asks you if you want to go
on if there's time and if there's time you, you go on.
But if you don't make the cut off to go on, then you just get
a marathon finish. So it's kind of intense too.

(14:09):
Some people, they do, they get to the marathon point, they're
like, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore.
This is awful. But then like, you know, like I
don't know why I've, you know, Ialways wanted to do the race.
I got the marathon twice and I hated I, I was so mad.
I mean, I was happy I didn't DNF, but I wanted to keep going,
get the 50K. So I trained real hard.
I've got the 50K three times andthe marathon twice and I'd like

(14:30):
to go back and do it again. But I've just been really
injured and the course does scare me.
So like if I know I'm like having hip issues or something
like that, I got to be full strength to do it because it's
different than it's not just running, you know, it's a lot of
other stuff. And like some people can run
down that technical stuff. Like, you know, I'm, yeah, I'm,
I'm very scared about, you know,sliding into briars and just
like bleeding out. Bleeding out, man.

(14:51):
Yeah, from from the briars. Yeah, I mean, you, you should
Google like what people look like after doing that race.
Like their their legs, like it'sjust.
Spread it. Out it's unreal.
It's yeah, it's like a horror movie.
Like it's it's unreal. It's an unreal race.
I can't believe that stuff that like that's out there and that's
why I love the ultra community. It's fun.
Yeah, it's fun. They're a.
Little sick in the head. Just like me.

(15:13):
Yeah. So what's going on in your in
your life these days? I mean, you said you were a
caregiver, so I'd love to hear about that and just the the
things you do and why you do them.
Oh, so I got into it by accident, really.
I was at a race in Manassas, VA,at the Prince William Half.
It's the race is no longer, you know, it's defunct, but at the

(15:33):
time, like it was in 2017, I waslined up to do, you know, to
start running. And I see like this guy pushing
his son on like a racing wheelchair and I'm like, what
are they doing? So, like I, I was like really
fascinated by it. And when, you know, we took off,
these guys smoked the race. I mean, they got like under an
hour and a half. So like I was just like, I
didn't really, really get it. So I kind of like researched

(15:55):
like who the organization they're with Ainsley's Angels.
And yeah, ever since, like I learned about them, you know,
Michael, Michael and Donald Harms.
I, I, I, I started pushing with angels, angels also, you know,
just so everyone can have, you know, that race experience and
you get the, get the few, what amarathon's like.
And yeah, I, I haven't really looked back on that either.

(16:17):
I've done pretty much every distance except for ultras on,
you know, with Ainsley's. And I, I wanted to do that also,
but COVID kind of messed that up.
Like one of the races I was looking at a 50 mile or I think
it's gone. I don't even think it's around
anymore. Wow.
Yeah. What what keeps you going back
because like obviously like youryour friend's house now, like is
there a level of fulfillment or just like helping people

(16:38):
experience life and make it through like?
I've done a lot of jobs, man. And I've never felt fulfillment
from like, you know, like I've been in sales, I've been all
this like soulless stuff and like caregiving just makes me
feel, makes me feel happy at what I'm doing.
I mean, there's a lot of jobs you just don't get that from.
And it just makes you feel, you know, sadness or depression And
yeah, like, I don't get that from being a caregiver.
And I feel like there's like no caregivers anymore.

(17:02):
I mean, nobody will. I mean, it doesn't pay a lot of
money. It's a lot of work.
And the world needs caregivers alot.
And I think that's just my calling.
What are some of the moments that have been like highlights
for you since doing that? Wow.
Just I like to go on adventures with Donald.
We go all over the place just seeing him happy.
If he's, he's not normally depressed right like that.

(17:23):
But if he's like down, I like try if I can make him smile,
then I generally feel like I then I can smile too.
And he's such an outgoing dude. I think one of my biggest
moments with just him in generalis like just kind of coming out
of my show more just cuz like he'll just go up to random
people and start like talking like, you know, just trying to
like, you know, hang out. And I'm, you know, I've just now
I'm like, I'll talk to whoever now basically just cuz like, you

(17:45):
know, I've been like hanging outwith him so much.
He's just the extremely outgoingguy and he's had a real positive
effect on me, I think, or impacton me, I should assume.
Yeah. In the on the topic of like
those impacts, do you have any moments where you have maybe
had, I don't know, something going on upstairs in mind or
something in the life and then you interact with him and maybe

(18:05):
he teaches you a lesson or two? Oh, yeah, all the time.
I mean, you know, between ultra running and hanging out with
Donald, I think that helps balance out a lot of the stuff
that, you know, I go through in life.
You know, Donald is faced with challenges I'm never going to be
able to comprehend. I mean, I know him and I know
what he goes through, but I, youknow, I haven't lived it.
But I, you know, I think that hegives me a lot of inspiration

(18:26):
and, you know, motivates me to just, you know, if there's
something like I'm like dogging in life, you know, like I'm just
like, no, I need to do this the right way and I can finish this.
Yeah, what I'm trying to think how to ask this question
delicately to a degree, but whatare some of the things that you
have dealt with in life and maybe even you're dealing with
now, they're just like really tough that you do have to go to

(18:48):
therapy for that you are trying to find a way through and are
are progressing. I mean, I, I think we all have
demons, you know, just, you know, stuff growing up.
I mean, like running helped for a long time, like after the
divorce and things of that nature.
But you know, relationships I think like dating and stuff's
really, it's hard being a singledad, you know, it's hard meeting
people. I had a really bad breakup

(19:11):
earlier in the year and a friendpassed away also kind of like
around the yeah, it was just kind of like a rough thing.
So like that really messed me upearlier on in the year and the
injuries also I, I think it was just all interconnected this
bad, you know, bad mental stuff.But yeah, I think being a
caregiver really helps out with that and just being able to

(19:31):
like, just puts in perspective and basically, you know, helps
Donald definitely helps cheer meup a lot of times if he sees me
moping around and, you know, he helps me not.
And he, he talks a lot of trash too.
I need, I need that also. Like I can't just have somebody
like, you know, yeah, it, it's going to be OK John, though.
I need some trash talk also thatthat does help out.
And Donald's super competitive and you can't, yeah, you can't

(19:51):
just have, you can't be coddled all the time.
Sometimes you just need like some real talk and some real,
you know, some you need some tough love from time to time.
I think if, if not, you know, you're just going to be, you're
just going to be Bopian. That's not cool.
Yeah. Do you find that there's, do you
have several people in your lifewho are able to hold that space
and be there to maybe give you some tough love?

(20:12):
The main one. I think he is the main one
'cause like my family, like we're like, we're not really
like that, you know? Like we're just kind of that's
kind of hard to explain. Like we, if anything, we
probably call them more like they're just kind of like, you
know, like it's going to be OK, that type of stuff.
But yeah, Donald and then some runners also, I know.
But then like, I think like a a mark of a true friend is

(20:35):
somebody that like, you know, Will.
Yeah, somebody that'll bust yourballs.
I mean, sometimes you need that.I mean, let's be honest.
If if I think again, the mark ofa good friend is somebody that
isn't afraid to tell you just how it is and not, you know, not
be worried to tell you that. So I know for me, like them,
when I've gone through differentdifficult situations, that often

(20:56):
reveals the capacity of what I am able to handle, not handle.
Maybe it's a character trait that I don't love, comes out a
little bit easier whenever I'm under enormous levels of stress
or whatever it might be. And so those things become very
clear to me and in my past. And then to be able to sing,
bring those things out singularly and then say, OK, I'm

(21:17):
going to work on this is often avery difficult thing to do.
How have you found like, what's your experience been or have you
noticed those kind of self-awareness moments where
you're like, I want to work on this thing And then what are
some things that you've done to try to overcome them?
So wow, so I've been really bad about like ever since I started

(21:38):
running like I kind of like mentioned it earlier, like I
just, I went all in and just started doing races constantly
and. Break yourself.
Yeah, that so that, but then also just balancing that and
the, you know, family members and stuff like that.
You know, I I hang out with my daughter a lot.
I mean, if you look at my socialmedia, you'll see that.
But it's, you know, I've had a lot of guilt on races before I'd

(21:59):
be enacted races because I miss my kid.
So like, you know, yeah, it's it's it can get kind of dark for
me like that. Like I'll have guilt thinking
that I should be with her instead of the race, even though
it's something I planned in advance.
I'm just like, why am I out? Why am I out here in the woods
doing this? 100 biler.
I should be, I should be at home.
I think stuff like that. So yeah, I mean, like for me,
I've just been trying to balancethat stuff out better and, you

(22:21):
know, just be able to spread time across new with family and
being able to do what I love with running.
And also every runner is guilty with this, but just actually
taking care of your body and notjumping from race to race.
I mean, like it I was so bad in the past about just wanting to
get like a hot like high miles every week, you know, just for
like leaderboards and just dumb stuff like that.

(22:43):
And maybe I don't even think I really cared about leaderboards,
but I just wanted to get like a high amount of miles every week.
And yeah, I've tried to, you know, ever since like injuries,
a lot of injuries last year. The mental stuff I, I find like
the gyms like pre therapeutic and it's good for like recovery,
actually doing the stuff I should be doing, like lifting
weights, like cross training. I went like years without doing

(23:04):
any of that stuff, like not evenstretching at all.
So like I, I think that I'm doing a better job just, you
know, with the mental health stuff and just actually taking
care of my body recovering afterraces now just jumping in, let's
do another ultra. Let's do 2 in the same weekend.
Just that kind of I'm not gonna list the amount of races I've
done cuz I don't even know. Cuz if you look at my ultra sign

(23:25):
up, there's stuff that I've donea bunch of underground fat ass
races that aren't even on there.So I can't even tell how many
races I did, but it gets to a point it's almost like drugs,
like if you, you know, if you ever had issues with like, you
know, alcohol or addiction, It'sonly many times I question if
I've like just replaced like alcohol with running.
I've I've I've asked that question to myself several

(23:46):
times. And you know, I think I've
gotten a lot better this year, but it's still there.
I still want to do all the races.
Yeah, if you weren't able to run, what would that do to you?
Well, that, so that's the thing,like this year, I, I've had
stresses where I haven't like I,I because I was injured often on
last year. And then like in March, I don't
know what happened. Like I was just running a normal
run. I think it was March, March or

(24:07):
like late April, something like that.
Somewhere around there. I was just doing a normal
recovery run one day, a Six Milerecovery one run.
And then my hip got really messed up.
So I wasn't able to like even walk right.
I looked like I couldn't, it hurt just to walk.
So yeah, like I've been doing a lot of the gym stuff.
I'm starting to slowly get back to it now and I've done a couple
ultras, you know, since, but it's a it was a process.

(24:31):
And yeah, mentally it's just sucked.
But like what I did was I kind of just went all in and just did
gym stuff and just, it was kind of cool just to meet new people
in the gym and stuff like that. But at the same time, I missed
my runners, you know, I missed everybody I ran with.
But it's cool making new friends.
And it's funny too, because likepeople know, like if they see
you like all Olympic at the gym and like you're swimming all
crazy, they're like, you're not,you know, you're in, you're,

(24:53):
you're, you do some other sport,don't you?
Yeah. How'd you?
How'd you guess? Yeah, With going to the gym, was
that in line with like getting actual PT done?
Like did you get checked out to see what exactly was going
wrong? So Donald's PT is really
awesome. Basically I take him to get
like, you know, to get looked atand stuff like that.
And they saw me just walking allcrazy one day and they're like,

(25:15):
let me look at you. So like they, they checked to
make sure I wasn't like anythingmajor and they, they gave me
some exercises to do. So I've been doing those and
it's been working really well. I mean, it took a took a while,
like a while, but I think that was good for me too, just to
recover from all the abuse over the years of just race after
race after race. Yeah.
How many years have you been doing it now?
Oh, wow. So I started.

(25:37):
I did my first marathon in 2017.And then, you know, I just
pretty much continuously did it.And then even like during COVID,
when the races shut down, I was doing so much dumb stuff.
Like I was one of those guys that was like running like a
marathon in a field alone. Like I was one of those dudes.
Yeah, just doing the virtual races.
So. Oh, my goodness.
Yeah. Like during COVID, I think I hit
like 5000 miles for the year. Wow.

(26:00):
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't like I wasn't like doing tempo runs or
anything like that. It was like slower pace, like,
you know, kind of like, you know, walk runs and stuff like
that. But I was still out there every
day. It was, it was pretty crazy.
I would just do like a 50K like locally and then just like run
back and hang out with my daughter all day.
And it was, it was amazing. I'd be I know COVID sucked and
everything but I I had fun hanging out with my kid.

(26:20):
Yeah, what does your daughter think of you running?
So that's that's a tough question.
I mean, like, she doesn't like it.
They have to go away at times and I'm, you know, away and I, I
think, you know, she's OK with it, but at the same time she
doesn't like that makes me be away sometimes.
And I've done races with her. She's done like a couple 5 KS

(26:40):
and kid runs and stuff like that.
But yeah, running's not her thing.
And, you know, hopefully at somepoint, if she starts to like it,
I'd love to do a race with her. Like when she gets older, like
the Marine Corps Marathon, that that would be it.
Like I wouldn't have to do a race after that if I could just
do stuff like that with her. Yeah.
That would be an incredible, incredible run to do with her.
But yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't think she disapproves me

(27:05):
running because ultimately I think it's I think it's good for
her to see somebody like that obsessed with the sport because
she's definitely like that. She's that wild about dance
also. Like she's equally, yeah, she's
equally into dance as I am running.
Yeah. She just got Clara and The
Nutcracker. Like for, you know, for a
Nutcracker coming up at her dance company.

(27:25):
Yeah, she's, you know, she's really into it.
And I think she's gotten a lot of that for me, I think.
But also like, you know, she hasa real good support system.
I'm I'm divorced. But even though like, you know
me and you know, we, I, my, her mom and I have, we Co parent
very well together. So like, you know, we've got a
good team, that family also. So we, we all, we all help out

(27:45):
Jillian. And yeah, it's, it's just, it's
a tough balance. But I, I hope she doesn't resent
me for Riddick. I really hope not.
I I think, I think she's OK withit.
But like I said, I do sometimes,I do sometimes feel regret for
doing as money race as I do. Yeah.
Well, let me ask about that a little bit because you said that
you even quit some races in the past because you were feeling

(28:07):
that that guilt. Does that guilt come from a
place of just kind of you in themoment thinking about you?
Or does it go back even further to like, were your parents there
for you? Did you ever feel like that they
weren't there for you? No, I mean, my parents are
pretty much so. And if not, like my grandmother
lived with us. So she there was always somebody
there. Kind of the same stuff that

(28:27):
Jillian has now, like her grandmother's early in her life
also. Yeah, I, I, I think it's just
more of me being critical of herself.
I think runners, we do that, youknow, like just, or just anybody
in the sport, you know, just like you always want to do
better. You want to get a faster time,
you know, no matter what you do,you want to do a better job,
especially with kids because, and I think that's a part of
the, you know, the issues that triggered that also time's so

(28:49):
short with kids, you know, you only have like, like a certain
window before they grow up and you want to make the best
experience possible and make sure that they're OK.
So I think for me, I would question like, I'm out, you're
doing this 100 mile race when the time's ticking for my
daughter. You know, I got to be, I got to
be a good dad, you know, But I think some of that was
excessive. I shouldn't have been that hard
on myself because, you know, it was stuff that's planned, you

(29:11):
know, but I still feel that way,you know, I think it's, and I
think it's a lot of adults. I'm sorry a lot of parents that
are out there doing this stuff, you know?
How do you judge yourself as a dad?
Oh, wow. I mean, I would say off like
what my daughter says and other people.
I wouldn't say that Oh, I'm the best dad in the world because,
you know, I try. I mean, like, you know, I try to

(29:32):
do all the cool stuff and have fun, but at the same time, I
can't be the cool guy all the time.
I have to be, you know, I have to be the not fun parent also.
And yeah, I mean, it's tough. I would go off with just, you
know, I would think that most people would think I am, but I'm
not going to be cocky about it. Like, oh, I'm I'm the greatest
dad there is. I mean, I'd like to believe

(29:53):
that, but yeah, I, I mean, I think if you asked my, if you
were to like bring Jillian out, I think she would be like, yeah,
my dad's pretty cool. I mean, like, I'm embarrassed of
him, but yeah. That's just the age, man.
I swear she'll come back around.I saw my whole family and me
especially go through it when ittook till probably I was about
23 or 24 to come back and realize like, Oh my, my mom and

(30:14):
dad, they actually knew a lot ofwhat they were talking about.
And I I wrote them off as ridiculous or stupider.
I knew more than them. And we all do that as kids in
the. That's what I'm I'm hoping for
that I'm really. It will happen.
So I forgot I was going to ask. Can I ask a question about or
some questions about the your divorce?
Yeah, absolutely. So if you don't mind me asking,

(30:36):
like what happened? So I was recovering from, you
know, alcoholism and it was likefrom a long like, you know, from
you carrying over from the military, you know, and just
stuff like that. So, you know, my, my former
spouse helped me out. I mean, she did help me get
sober. She took me to a meetings and
things like that. I mean, she was, you know,
pretty cool. But but I think like my problem

(30:57):
was that, you know, I, I didn't even know who I was at that
point because I've been, you know, using alcohol.
And I mean, also like a lot of stuff I did, I had unchecked,
you know, like feelings and stuff from like the military,
you know, again, serving during 911 and, you know, a lot of
intense situations. I think that just, I wasn't
ready for marriage, even though I was, you know, older at the
time when I got married, I just,this wasn't ready.

(31:19):
Yeah, and how many years ago wasthat?
Let's see so I believe so our again back to why I start
running like the divorces. It was kind of a lengthy
process. I believe it was finalized in
when I was 38. So like it was kind of afraid.
It was kind of like it's kind ofa messy process, but we actually

(31:43):
actually we're you know, we whenduring COVID we've started to
work really well together because, you know, it was such a
like hard situation with school and everything like that.
So I think that we really set aside a lot of differences and
just, you know, wanted to focus on Jillian And I think that, you
know, we definitely just the eyeto eye on certain things.
But yeah, I, I think that we Co parent very well together.

(32:04):
I'm very happy. I mean, if you, if you have to
get divorced, like, which is very I, you know, I, I don't
like, I, I don't like the fact that I got divorced.
I you know, it's awful, but I'm glad if anything, we were able
to work our differences for the sake of our child.
Yeah, yeah, that's huge. I know it can be really hard for
kids like my mom. So her parents were divorced and

(32:24):
the but it was it was so messy to the point to where like many
years she didn't talk to her dador there was just like this real
big disconnect for the way that he would or would not connect
with her. Very sporadic.
And that left like a big hole inher for for quite a while.
So I can only imagine it. It will pay dividends that you
and your wife are able to work stuff out for your kid.

(32:45):
It's tough, yeah. I mean, like, I try it no matter
what to always have some kind of, I mean, I get along really
well with my mom and then like my dad, you know, like I, we
hang out sometimes. Like we did not, not, I don't
have a good relationship as withmy mom, but like, I think it's
really important for people to have like at least some kind of
relationship with their parents.I know it's tough and I know
there's bad blood at times, but I think it's really important

(33:05):
that you have at least some kindof connection to your parents,
you know? Yeah.
Do you feel like you have healedthrough, like gone through all
the process of healing for for that event?
I mean, I think so. I think if anything, like just
the fact that we're able to worktogether now, I think that that
that that speaks volumes. Like if you're able to do that

(33:26):
and just set aside differences. And I think like COVID was like
the as bad as it was, I mean, I just think it was like what we
needed to kind of just like maybe just we saw and you never
want to compare it to other people, but I think we just saw
people being bitter and like ugly about stuff that they were
going through during that period, like couples and stuff
like that. And we're just like, we just
have to think about our daughter.

(33:49):
For the alcoholism, it's never appealed to me, but I've had
people in my family who have struggled with that and some
have stepped away from it, some have not.
But for you, like you saw it wasan issue.
Addiction is such a hard thing. Like I have my own addictions
that I've battled with. What was it for you that like

(34:09):
gave you not only the ability, but the hope to to step out and
and leave that behind? So this is kind of tricky.
I I'll be honest with you, the the main reason that I stopped
was the law. I mean, I got 2 Duis if I didn't
want to get third and get a felony.
So there's that. But then also it happened my
kid. So like, I think the law was,
you know, that that was what started the process.

(34:32):
And then just being able to, youknow, fully stay sober, just
having a child. So, yeah, I mean, and it's, it's
different too, like when I talk to people that are in like
recovery and EA and stuff like that, like I tell them that I'm
like, I didn't really even do iton my own initially.
Like I was forced to. And it, it, I do wonder about
that a lot, but I mean it, I, I,I mean, I, I haven't had a drink
since I think 2011, something like that.

(34:54):
I mean, I don't celebrate my date or anything like that.
But yeah, I just, ever since I started doing like fitness, I
just happened to, I have had no impulses to want to do that.
I just want to take care of myself and be able to you run
and, you know, do this stuff fora long time.
Yeah, how old are you? Oh, I'm I'm 45. 45 nice.
It's crazy how fast time flies me because I remember just the
other day I turned 21 and now I'm going on 33 and it's I see

(35:18):
these people who are 21 and I remember where I was at in my
frame of mind thinking that I was like, I had it kind of
figured out. And it's just so we can always
talk about it. But it's so true.
Like the just the way that maturity comes over over many
years because I mean, I'm sure I've talked to people who are
older than me, 40s, fifties, andthey still feel like they're
trying to figure it out. So I don't know if there's ever

(35:39):
an age where you get to a place where it's like I have reached
the Zen state, I'm here, I have arrived.
I think for me, anytime I feel like that, I just get too cocky
and I mess things up. So like, I think that you always
being humble, I think it's the big part of it.
You always have to be humble andjust, you know, there's always
something to improve and there'ssomething that you know, just
kind of be mindful of and not think that you know what, you

(36:02):
never want to think like you know it all.
I didn't think any time I think that I'm headed, I'm headed for
a downfall. Pride goes before a fall for
sure. Are you a religious person?
I mean, I don't, I'm, I'm not, but I don't, I would never like,
you know, I would never be critical of somebody that that
is. And like, you know, I mean, I've

(36:22):
gone to church and past I went to EA and stuff like that.
Yeah, it just, it just kind of depends.
I mean, like, yeah, I'm, I'm notreally, but I don't, again, I
don't, I would never criticize or be harsh to somebody that
that's their thing. But do you?
Do you believe in a God or a higher power?
Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.
Sort of maybe. And yeah, I mean, like, I think

(36:43):
there's something out there, butI don't know.
It's just religion never really clicked with me.
I think just because I don't know I I'm not gonna.
Go for it. No, Tell me.
I mean, it's like, say what? You really?
Think you're not going to hurt my feelings?
No, I, I think like, you know, the, I, I think it's really good
guidelines to live by. I just be personally, yeah, I

(37:04):
don't know, it's a lot of like questions and stuff.
And I think it's, you know, it'stoo, it's too big for me to
ponder at times, you know? So I just kind of, you know,
again, I, I think faith is greatand I think it's a good
guideline to like live your life.
And yeah, that's, that's pretty much how I, I roll with
religion. And again, nothing's wrong with
religion. I, I think it's a great thing

(37:25):
for people. And yeah.
Are there any questions just about like your past or the
future that you have had that you feel like you haven't been
able to have an answer for? And I'm not insinuating that
like religion is the answer. I'm just curious, like if you
have some of these big existential because you said
like, well, I have to ponder it,but sometimes it's too much to
think about. So I'm just curious what you're

(37:46):
thinking. I mean, I just what bounces me
out, it's like going on like a long run or something, honestly.
I mean, I know it sounds like crazy, but like, yeah, just, I
don't know, man. I we're just like meditating.
That was, that's one thing I think that's helped me out a
lot. I mean, like, I think like
recently, just like, you know, just taking time for myself just
to meditate. And I'd Even so like, this is

(38:07):
gonna be weird. But like, until recently, I, I
gave people a lot of my, my piece.
Like, I would just like let themkind of just like, you know,
run, yeah, like run all over, like, you know, my piece and
just like, you know, being able to relax and stuff like that.
And I think a lot of people justdon't even identify that, you
know, that's how that's happening to you.
So I think like I, I've taken, I'm doing a better job now just

(38:29):
taking time and taking like at least like a moment to myself if
I need it or just, you know, if somebody is just like not
respecting, you know, boundaries, especially, that's
the main thing. Like I, I think like I've had my
boundaries just trampled on likea lot of my life that I just
like, it's taking a long time toeven understand what was going
on. You know, like I thought that
behavior was normal. You know, I still like, I think

(38:50):
just for me, like, like right now, it's just like, you know,
making sure I'm getting, you know, proper rest, which sleep,
that's like my worst thing. I need to work on sleep.
I need to work on the rest and just, you know, making sure that
people in my life are, you know,maintaining proper boundaries
and giving me peace. What what what gives you the
most peace? Like is it a a topic or a
something you focus on? For me, like I, I like, you

(39:14):
know, again, running and, you know, being in the gym, hanging
out with my daughter, you know, those are my, you know, favorite
things in life and they make me happy.
And just, or just, I mean, like,I know it's scary and it's been
scary for me, especially like, you know, after like, you know,
my friend passed and you break up and stuff like that.
But just being alone sometimes, you know, you just need to be
alone and people need to understand that, you know, I've

(39:34):
had like girlfriends in the pastand stuff that are just, they
don't get that. They're like, oh, you know, like
they think it's like an insult to them or something like that.
But people just need to be by themselves at times to just be
able to have peace. Yeah, there's definitely a lot
to be said about the calm of mind.
I think that our society's lost that.
Yeah, I would say it's an art and a skill even to to be to be
alone with one's thoughts is it can be very scary for for

(39:55):
certain people if you don't have, I hesitate to say the word
control, but. Just the ability to shut things
out and like you're saying, meditate, which kind of leads me
to my next question is like what?
What kind of meditation do you do?
Do you meditate on a specific thing or awareness of a certain
thing? So I hung out with my cousin a

(40:17):
few about like I think was like 4 months ago I went to Florida
because I was again I had a lot of like stress going on with
like breakup and you know, just a lot just bad mental stuff.
So like I hung out with them andwe started talking about
meditation a lot and like breathing just to focus, just
purge your mind and just focus on the breathing.
I think that that again, stuff that I'd even, I mean basic

(40:38):
stuff that I used to know as an adult and I just didn't do like
I was too focused on like other stuff, you know, like job or
just whatever, just stuff in my head that I shouldn't be there.
Sometimes you just have to purgeall that stuff out and it's hard
to do, but I'm trying to do a better job of it.
Yeah. What are some of the, I mean,
obviously you have a semblance of peace and mindfulness, but
what are some of the benefits that you have found in in

(40:59):
practicing like that mindfulnessand meditation?
I mean, I'm just all around calmer.
Like it, I mean, like a lot of the times when I was growing up,
I would just be like jittery andstuff like that.
Just, you know, I mean, what? So I drink a lot of coffee also.
So I think like that's like a bad, yeah, I got to, I got to
control that. How much are we talking?
A lot, but yeah, but I, but I got to, you know, got to work on

(41:21):
that. But I, I think it helps with
that. All that stuff, though, I'm not
as like jittery or just like scatterbrained, like, you know,
just like calm, just calmer. I, I think that's something that
everyone needs just to, you know, just be calm.
Just be calm about stuff and notlet things get to you.
I mean, there's stuff that's going to be outside your control
that you can't fix no matter what.
And he's got to be comfortable with that and be able to let it
go. And it's very hard.

(41:42):
So something you've alluded to is, or kind of shown me, is that
you know when to ask for help oryou know at least know how to.
A lot of people do not know how to ask for help.
So how do you know internally when you need to ask for help?
If I restlessness, like if I can't sleep, you know, if
something's got, if something's taking that much space in my
head, I can't sleep or you know,I can't get proper rest or like

(42:04):
even if I get tried to meditate,it's still there.
I can't get it out yet. Sometimes you just need to talk
that stuff through, you know, toa therapist or just, you know,
like a really good friend or, but all the above.
You know, I'm kind of a talker. I am, but I'm not like on long
runs. I'm like, I'm a goofball and I
like to talk. I mean, like, again, I think
Donald brought a lot of that outme like in, you know, just
hanging out with them, just going up to random people and

(42:26):
stuff. But yeah, I mean, like, if
there's something wrong with me,you'll know, like, oh, John's
got some problems. I I like to talk a lot.
If I, you know, if there's stuffon my mind, I have no problem
doing that. And it took a long time to get
there. I would keep stuff bottled,
bottled up in my younger years. But yeah, I'm just more
comfortable talking about stuff now and getting off my chest.
Yeah, the bottling up has alwaysfascinated me because I think

(42:46):
that there's actually A use for that, just the ability to
compartmentalize, especially in in a in a time frame or excuse
me, in a, in a scenario such as military situation, the ability
to bottle up those things. But we talk a lot about
compartmentalization and how to focus and, and be in the moment,
yada, yada, yada. But there's not as much talked

(43:06):
about how to to release the pressure from that bottle.
And that can be done through a bunch of different ways.
But really I think it comes downto actually like speaking what's
going on upstairs out loud so that you can kind of hear when
things sound crazy. Because it's so interesting to
me how sometimes whatever's rolling around up here when
actually verbalize it. It made sense up here, but now

(43:27):
when I've said it out loud, it makes no sense whatsoever, which
is it's very interesting. I I think honestly, like, I
think so much happened like fromhigh school to the Navy, I think
that was that's probably a lot of my those are a lot of my
issues, like early on in life, just trying to process
everything that happened in thatshort period and this how to

(43:48):
move on from that. Yeah.
I mean, it's, yeah, I think I'm much better off now, but it it
took a while. It was, it was like a roller.
I feel like early on in life, itwas just a roller coaster for
me. Like I had, you know, it might
as well have been like a zombie apocalypse for me.
I was just running around actingcrazy, you know, trying to
survive. Yeah, just trying to survive.
Yeah, well, you've survived. Good job.

(44:08):
Yeah, 45 man, go and strugg. If you were able to go back in
time and talk to your 17 year old self, maybe even right
before he decided at 19 to sign up for the Navy, what are some
things that you would say to him?
So The funny thing, I, I think about this all the time.
I hear people like, you know, say that I don't think there's
anything I could say to myself. I really don't.
I think I would be like, yeah, whatever.
I I think myself then was just like probably.

(44:31):
The most true, the truest thing that you could.
Yeah, he'd be like, whatever. Dude, I I got this.
You're you're you're a loser, man.
Get out of here. Wait, that's me.
Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, Yeah. What, what is it about that you
think that within younger minds that it gives them that that
belief that oh, I've got it figured out?
Like where does that come from? Honestly, to be 100% honest, I

(44:52):
was, you know, on alcohol, like it just like I was, you know,
partying and just, yeah, exactly, just like alcohol
muscles, like I got this, you know, like that kind of stuff.
Yeah. I just had probably, like the
worst irrational confidence, like rational confidence that
wasn't helping me out, you know,Like, you know, I was.
Yeah. I was on a bad bath back then

(45:12):
man. What did they give you because I
asked this from a place of like true curiosity because I I tried
drinking and I got drunk I thinkonce and I'm such AI weigh 125
lbs so it really didn't take much and I was like this is
weird. I didn't actually know if I was
actually drunk. It didn't really do a lot for
me. I tried some weed and that stuff
and scared the crap out of me. I went to some party one time.

(45:34):
This is the closest I ever got to partying.
I went to party one time, snuck out of the dorm and somehow
somebody ratted on us for sneaking outside of the dorm.
And then they called my mom who called me and she calls me.
I literally were getting shot glasses and there's somebody's
pouring smearing off and I'm about to throw this thing back
for the first time. And my mom's like, I don't know
where you are, what you're doing, but you better get back
to that dorm room right now. And that lit the fire of God

(45:55):
under my feet and I made my way back.
And you know, I just, I never really could get into it and to
my own, I guess benefit. But what is it for like for you
that like kept you going back? Like what was it giving you?
Honestly, I, I think just like the 90s were like different.
I think like, you know, I mean, people were smoking cigarettes

(46:16):
more like, you know, you just, you know, it was much more
prevalent like drinking and likesmoking and film and stuff like
that and pop culture. I think that it was just, you
know, just like a generational type thing.
I think like in the 90s, people were just like, it was like, you
know, people started doing that early on, you know, and partying
in high school. And you know, again, I picked up
some real bad apps just in high school alone and just carried it

(46:39):
on until, you know, later on in life.
So as your daughter is going to be approaching those years here
pretty soon, what are some things that you think or you can
do or have done or should do or whatever?
Like what are your thoughts about how to raise a kid and
that because I'll need advice. Make sure they're in sports.
I think where I got lost was just not, you know, I, I did

(47:00):
track, I tried to do it and likeI liked it, but I just, I would,
I had no discipline for it. I never got, I never was
passionate about a sport when I was younger.
So like I I'm really happy she'sin the dance.
Like she's going to Florida tomorrow for a dance intensive
in at Disney. So like, yeah, that's, that's
not what she's doing with this stuff.
And like, you know, constantly do competitions all over.

(47:23):
So I, I think kids need that because if there's idle time
again, I don't think, I don't think like the call to do that
stuff is as prevalent as it was or as loud as it was in the 90s.
I, I think it's a little bit different now.
Like, I mean, you rarely see people smoking cigarettes or
like, you know, people don't even like going out anymore.

(47:43):
Like I like I went out with friends just to hang out.
I, you know, I wasn't drinking or anything.
I was just like a DD just hanging out with friends and
there was nobody out. I was like, wow, you just
comparing it to when I was a kid, like when people went out,
you know, during the weekends oreven during the week.
I, I think people just don't want to go out anymore.
They just want to you stay at home or just, you know, do stuff
like, I mean, people don't like to go to movies even I went to a

(48:04):
movie last night and like nobodywas there.
I guess like apps and like, you know, be able to stream and, you
know, I, I think people just do stuff at home or if they are
drinking, they're doing it at home or like house parties and
stuff like that. But yeah, I, I think just kids
being in a sport that I think that gives them a positive way
and they don't want to hurt their bodies.
Yeah, you know, smoking or doingalcohol, because it's not, they
won't be as good, you know, an athlete if they're on that

(48:25):
stuff. Yeah, Yeah.
It's interesting you said that because when your kids are so
much energy and there's so many things you could put your hands
to. And I've seen I, I didn't really
do many sports actually growing up.
Well, I take that back. My mom during the summers put us
in like the rec leagues and whatnot in the summer and fall
and I really enjoyed that. It was so interesting too,

(48:45):
because I had asthma. So I like always kind of got
held back. But for whatever reason, as I
got older, I just kind of dissipated and I more or less
grew out of it. But those are some of the best
memories I have about getting onthe field.
Some of the hardest times too, because like as kids, I don't
know, maybe it was just me, but I put so much pressure on myself
of like, I had this ideal in my head of who I wanted to be and

(49:05):
what I wanted to do. But then when you're a kid and
you're learning how to use your body and kick the ball in the
right way, like I played soccer a lot.
It took me years to figure out like how to finesse that thing.
And it, it takes a lot of time and discipline, like you said,
and sometimes the kids don't have it.
The parents have to be there to,to guide and direct.
And I think that that's one of the highest callings, I would

(49:26):
say, in this Earth is to be a parent and a good parent.
What's up? I mean, like what I tell Julian
all the time is like, you know, the body is like the hardest
puzzle and like for sports. I mean that what you're saying
like, you know, you know, soccermight not be your sport, but
just keep trying other sports until you find that one that you
and you, I mean like from for me, like I'm not the greatest
runner. I mean, I've done a lot of races

(49:47):
and stuff, but like, you know, it brings me joy.
I think that's the main thing. If you find a sport that you
have joy doing, you're, you're awinner no matter what.
I mean, that's it makes you happy and you, you're in control
of your body doing it. You know, you're doing it.
You're, you're doing the sport as best as you can, you know?
Yeah. Yeah.
What are some of your ambitions?Because you still got a lot of
years of movement pent up in your body.

(50:08):
Like what are some of the thingsthat you want to?
I still want to do a lot of races.
I think that's what like when I get injured, that's what makes
me scared cuz like there's stillso much I want to do Like I'm
I'm putting it for bad water 135next year.
Oh my gosh, wait, that's the one.
That's like literally through. Is it the Dakotas?
Death Valley. Death Valley.
Yeah. And it's like you have to carry
everything yourself, right? Or.
For that one you got you have tohave a crew like you have to

(50:31):
have a van cuz. Yeah, you could die.
Yeah, you could die. Yeah, it's, it's tough, but
yeah, I want to do that one. There's I want to, I'd like to
try to do the big Berkeley at some point.
But for a lot of these races, you know, I want to, I want to
make sure I have like the, this sounds like a job application or
something. But like I want to make sure
that like I've, I have like a, aproper running resume that like

(50:52):
they'll look and be like, OK, this guy deserves to be here.
And if you look at mine, I mean,I've, I've done a lot of races,
but I want to make sure, like ifI do put in for like something
like Berkeley, they know I want to finish it.
And you know, they, they know I have the races and like, you
know, I meet whatever criteria they feel is necessary.
I want, I want them to know like, hey, I'm not messing
around. I want to do this race and
finish it. Yeah, that's cool, man.

(51:13):
So I want to go back a little bit to the Navy days, if that's
OK. Yeah.
And if there's anything you don't want to talk about, we can
totally just let me know. But like you, you mentioned a
few times, like 911 and then some of the crazy things you had
to go through. What were some of those things?
Just mainly so being away from home for the first time, but

(51:34):
then also, you know, not being able to like go out and do stuff
like that, you know, just being able to have like kind of like a
social life. I mean, we had one on the ship
and stuff like that. But you're like, you know, with.
A bunch of guys. You're with a bunch of dudes
that you work with constantly. So it was, it was a weird
dynamic. And then on top of that, I mean,
this probably isn't the greatestthing that the Navy did, but
like, you know, well, OK, let mebacktrack.

(51:56):
They they did something else about putting up some barracks
in the Navy. I thought it was great because
we did get to get out the ship to do that.
But with that said, what's rightnext to a barracks freaking nex
with like, yeah, hard liquor andstuff like that.
Yeah. So like we would just like, you
know, party your asses off and they go back to work just
hungover as hell. So, yeah, I mean, I, I picked up
a lot of bad habits like around that time because like, you

(52:19):
know, we weren't doing sports oranything like that.
Also, we were just like constantly working and like, you
know, going back to like losing your peace.
I mean, like that's that's probably where I lost a lot of
that. And just being OK with like,
people just trampling over that because I was just constantly
like, stressing out about like, you know, where I need to be,
what work I need to do, you know, and then just partying my
ass off afterwards and not really like giving myself proper

(52:41):
rest or any of that. And then when you started to
realize that, that's when you decided to quit.
I mean. I like 5 years you had to finish
your. I I liked it, but yeah, yeah.
I mean, I got a honorably and everything, but yeah, alcohol
was like I, I was just, if I wasgoing to stay in, I wouldn't, it

(53:01):
wasn't going to be pretty. So I just kind of adept by that.
And also because the lifestyle, I knew I wanted to have a kid at
some point, I knew that wasn't going to happen being in the
military, like I was going to like, it's a, it's a tough
environment to have a family. And like you hear all the horror
stories, like, you know, people because you go on deployments, I
mean, you go on deployments for like 6, you know, six days or
longer, most time longer. And especially around like 911,

(53:23):
we were constantly on deployment.
So like, I just felt like there was no way I was ever going to
like, have any kind of stable relationship or like, you know,
be able to like, have a family at any point.
Yeah, well, thanks for letting me dive back there for a second.
I was just curious. It's a crazy lifestyle, man.
I I miss the travel and like meeting people.
But you know, the only thing I really, I wished I was an
athlete at the time. Like I was running and doing

(53:45):
stuff because I could have like been doing races all around the
world. I could have made a lot more of
it. But I was a young kid, man, and
I just from high school, I was conditioned to want to party.
And that's why that's all I wanted to do.
So yeah, I was, man. I was like, this is my thing,
I'm going to do it. Yeah, that's a fascinating.
Is there any lessons that you learn from being in the Navy, in
the military that you have carried over into?

(54:07):
Like did it teach you how what it looks like to be disciplined?
Yeah, I mean, for the most part,but again, I think it's tough,
man. I, I like how much of his
discipline versus how much of his like OCD and stuff like
that, you know, because I think like in boot camp they basically
just make you like, like all jittery and like, oh, I got to
have this this way, you know? So like I, I do kind of question
a lot of that stuff, like how much of it is just like that

(54:27):
making you like uncomfortable, you know, So I don't know, it's
easy. To control people whenever
they're uncomfortable or in a state of chaos.
Or yeah, engineered chaos to a degree.
Yeah. And like for me, like I'm the
type that just I like structure and that's why I like the
military. But at the same time, like I
don't like chaos. I don't like, I don't throw

(54:48):
having chaos like some people I have to have.
I like stability man. And that's the main reason why I
got it, which is weird cuz our high school is like, I'm gonna
join the military to be stable. And then when I get there like,
wow, this is not. Stable at all?
I put maniac, Oh my God, what happened?
So that was in hindsight, I mean, maybe I would tell, you

(55:09):
know, the younger John not to join just that because like, you
know, hey, you're going to get you're going to get into a
perpetual war forever and you know, you're not going to get
that stability you need. I mean, it's going to be fun and
you're going to do a lot of things that you are just
basically doing now in high school.
But yeah, I, I mean, I don't regret serving in the military,
but at the same time it probablywasn't the greatest fit for me.

(55:30):
Yeah. And I say chaos too.
And I'm, I'm really thinking a little bit more fear.
I think that there's a lot of operation and control that
revolves around fear. Because if you can have someone
fear you, you got, you either have the people that are afraid
of you so they do what you want,or they have the other people
who are brave. And then you you realize who you
need to squash. Yeah.
It's it's tough. It's, it's scary.

(55:51):
It's I, I, yeah. And I think that just like the
hierarchy and stuff like that, Ithink in the control, I think
that did kind of freak me out too.
I mean, I always, I always try to do as much work as possible.
But then like again, after it was all over, like, you know,
like the deal with that, I wouldjust like, you know, drown
myself in booze. So let me ask you this question.
Is there anything that you wish that I would ask or I should

(56:12):
ask? I mean, wow, I mean we we we
talked a lot about like non running stuff, which is cool.
I like doing that. I like diving into other stuff.
But yeah, I mean, like, you know, if you wanted to ask more
about like, you know, just, you know, the grind and the OR like,
you know, races coming up, you know that that's good too.
But like, don't give me a rock. I this stuff's therapeutic for

(56:35):
me because like you've, you've, you've asked some stuff I
haven't even thought about for like decades.
So I really appreciate that. For sure, man.
Yeah. Well, tell me, I guess in our as
we're getting a little bit toward the closing moments of
the podcast, what does A day in the life of John Leflore?
Lots of driving, so I live in Culpepper and I drive to
Manassas, which is like an hour drive to get to Donald.

(56:56):
I'll even go to the gym in the morning, like I'll wake up at
3:00 AM and do my PT and stuff like that at home, then drive to
the gym. If I don't go to the gym in the
morning, I'll go at night after or not at night, but after I'm
done with Donald at like 4:00 PM.
But some days I'll do the gym inthe morning and at night, But it
just kind of depends. Like I, my sleep is terrible.
I mean, I'm getting in a lot of like exercise and stuff like

(57:18):
that, but I need to balance out sleep and driving kind of
offsets that also. So, you know, I, I'm trying to
get all that down, but I, I loveworking out, man.
I like to especially right now, it would kind of sucks is like
doing that, that PT and stuff like that.
It just takes up a lot of extra time.
I could be sleeping or running or whatever, but it's stuff I
put off for a long time. Like I feel like even though I

(57:39):
am like sacrificing a lot of sleep, I, I need to be doing
this now to get my body right. Because I mean, it was just, you
know, it's just been a mess. I I, like I said, I've just been
doing constant races and running, you know, running my
ass off every day of the, you know, week for so long.
Like I feel like this is my yearof reckoning breakdown.
Yeah, yeah. This you?
Gotta you gotta build it up. Yeah, so like, I mean, I can't.

(58:00):
The funny thing is this like I'min really good shape right now.
I look like I'm in good shape, but like I can bear like so I've
done some ultras recently, not really fast times or anything
like that. I'm just happy I can get stuff
done right now. But like I can't really run good
right now. It's funny too because I feel
like I'm in the best shape of mylife, but I can't run.
It's like it's really, it's, I know what the speed and stuff
will come back. And, you know, the more I I'm

(58:21):
more comfortable running, but injuries are so weird with
running. I feel like you're just like,
one day you're like, Oh, my hipsfeel.
My hip feels so weird, like, youknow, yeah.
Boom. Yeah.
Then you're like, you know, thenlike a week will pass by and
you're like, oh, you know, I've been running constantly.
It's just, yeah, it the way thatit happens.
It's just so strange like that. I'm so guilty of this.

(58:43):
Like, as soon as it feels right,I'm like, OK, bye.
Like, you know, anything that I was doing before, like it will
in the past, like, well, I was injured.
I'd be doing yoga every day. And then, like, as soon as,
like, I'm healed up again. See you later.
Bye. Yeah.
Bye. Yoga.
It was nice knowing you. So like, anything like that, I
just need to get better at doingthat stuff while I'm also
healthy, you know? And that for me, that's always

(59:05):
been a struggle. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
With the sleep, how often do youget to sleep?
Like what are the what is the average hours of night you think
you get? Probably 3 1/2 to 7 hours a
night, yeah. OK.
That's a lot. I mean that's a big gap, 3 1/2
to 7 seven, I would say is pretty good.

(59:25):
I mean. That's like on a really, that's
all things like clicking, you know, for the most part, like
during the week, I, yeah, it's probably 3 and it's probably 3
1/2 to 5 probably. Dude, that's really bad.
It is really bad. I know, I know, but I'm, I'm
facing this man. I know this.
I need to, I need to step it up.But it's tough as an adult man
when you got kids and you know, like you got a lot of driving

(59:47):
and stuff like that. So you want to run.
I think it own work, yeah. Yeah, I, I think that, yeah, for
a lot of working people, man, I,it's probably similar.
I'd be a lot of people I talk to.
It's like pretty much the same thing.
Or just, you know, we live off, we live off coffee and, you
know, just yeah. Your adenosine receptors are
just completely cut off from thecoffee.

(01:00:07):
Yeah, yeah. Well and then also like so like
I don't like night pores on ultras.
I know some people like that stuff like I get weird at night
'cause like I'm so sleep deprived anyway, but like you.
Start hallucinating. Well, so I've only hallucinated
once, but like, yeah, I get, I get really weird at night.
Like I I'll, I'll start saying weird stuff that people are
running with. Like we just joke all the time.

(01:00:27):
We just get really weird at night.
I think that I think I actually like it just.
But it, it's, it's tough. Like I just, I, you know, I
sleepwalk a lot. I'll I'll be running and all of
a sudden like I'm just like I feel like I'm about to pass out.
I I don't like I don't like doing the night portions of
vultures, but it's it is funny. It is the.
What is what? Well, two questions really
quick. What did you hallucinate?

(01:00:49):
That's the first one. So I did this race last year,
the Wild Oak Trail 100 IDNF to like 3 times prior.
It's it's just a really hard race.
It's so it's pretty much self supported and it's got a really
long cut off. I think the cut off to it's like
something like 40-4 hours. I can't remember what it was a
long time. Yeah.
So like the, the way it's set up, though, it's a loop.

(01:01:12):
So every two loops, I was asleepin my car for like an hour or
so. But I mean, that's not enough
sleep. You need more than that.
But yeah, I, I whenever it's night and I'm really like sleep
deprived and I have my headlamp on.
I, I always just see weird shit at night.
Like I saw Pikachu like a, a tree looked like Pikachu.
It it, it's, I never actually see like, like a strap like

(01:01:34):
something, but it's like, you know, something looks like it
cuz the way the headlamp shines.Like I saw Steven Seagal in like
by some trees. What's up, Steven?
Yeah, there's all kinds, all kinds of scary stuff.
You got Steven Seagal out there.Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, the ones that mainly stick out to me are
Pikachu and Steven Seagal. Those were the, those were the

(01:01:54):
top offenders. But also, like, I think a lot
about like stuff I don't want tothink about.
Like I'll be like John, Don't think about those horror movies
out here because you're by yourself.
And then like all of a sudden, like Jason Freddie, they're
think about it. They're all after me.
Yet where are those headlamps? Who are they on?
Are they part of the race? There's not that many people out
there right now. I can start like I I get like
super paranoid. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nope. I wouldn't enjoy that.

(01:02:14):
Not one bit. So let me ask you this question
and then I'll ask you a closing question.
What is it going to take for youto get 7 hours of sleep a night?
I don't know, man. So that's the thing like.
Move in with I forgot his name, Brandon.
No Donald. Donald moving with McDonald's.

(01:02:35):
I've actually, I've actually suggested it before, but like,
like that would be, it would be too much and I wouldn't see my
kid as much like I yeah, yeah, Idon't know, man.
I think I would have to cut off some stuff and that might be
good. Maybe just like once they get
healthier, just, you know, trim down on like doing, you know, as
much PT and. How much you do?
PT Well, I do like what the doctor gives me and then I like

(01:02:58):
on top of that, I lift weights and stuff like that.
You know, I've been cross straying, I've been swimming,
you know, just for a while. Just get into triathlon.
Yeah, I will. That that was the joke is like
they're like, John, you're doingall the stuff already, you know,
just just give up on running as much.
But yeah, I think we're really what's really been frustrating

(01:03:19):
this year is that I had bursts where I was doing really good.
Like I, I was like fast and stuff like that and then get
hurt again. And then like if I can't run, I
get just get like really sad. And I want to like, you know,
I'll just keep cross training, you know, do swimming and stuff
like that. But it's harder to go to the
gym, you know, to do that stuff.Yeah.
I'm used to the accessibility running, like I'm just going to

(01:03:40):
go outside my door or like, you know, from Donald's house or
whatever. So yeah, I just have to find a
better balance and probably haveto trim something out to be able
to sleep better. We'll have to check back in
then. How's John sleep?
Put it on the story. Well, then a closing question
for you. For somebody who wants to get

(01:04:01):
control of their life and maybe there's some addiction or
something that they've been dealing with and they want to
just leave it behind, maybe get into a sport.
What is some practical advice orwords of encouragement you that
you would give to that person? The sport's not going to save
you. I know that's like a popular
thing to say, like you're running.
I've actually not heard that onebefore.
So that's great. Yeah.
I mean, like, I've heard that a lot lately.
And, you know, I, I think I didn't want to believe it until

(01:04:23):
I actually like went through a lot of, you know, tragedy and
like personal issues, you know, 2024 to, to early this year.
Yeah. Even if you do find a sport you
fall in love with, you know, at some point, you're still going
to hit adversity. And I think that's the hardest
part. Once you find something that
kind of quote UN quote fixes youlike I found running, what
happens after you, you you have that adversity and it doesn't

(01:04:44):
fix you anymore. You know, like what what happens
when you don't find your piece from that, you know, you have to
regroup and figure out. And you know, that's why I would
that's the if I talk to somebody, be careful when you
know, when when you hit that point, because that's your next
point you have to worry about. And that, that I wasn't ready
for that. I just thought I was fine.
I'm good now. I found writing, I'm fine.
But like, yeah, once you hit some other stuff.

(01:05:06):
And I think it's mainly like, because like my friend that
passed Tony, he he, you know, wedid a bunch of races together.
So like, you know, when you losesomebody like that in the
running community, you know, they're gone.
Like you, you, you know, a race that's coming up, you're not
gonna be able to do that with them.
You know, it's over. So like, I think that hit me
really hard. Like, wow.
Like, you know, like that was the first time like a good
friend of mine, like a runner passed away and that's a lot to

(01:05:29):
handle. And then you, you know, my
ex-girlfriend also said kind of same thing, like, you know, it
just didn't work out with us. We were, you know, the Pete that
piece wasn't there. And then, you know, we shared a
lot of races together also a lotof routes, you know, a lot of
training together. I think the hardest thing is
like moving on from like, just like having like a a friend like

(01:05:50):
that in the community. Like, you know, then maybe you
don't want to see other people in the community that was
connected to you also. Chasm.
It's tough. Yeah.
I think just getting through that.
Just be careful, be careful who you let into your circle with
this new sport you find you if you find something you love that
passionately about that gets youthrough things, you just be
careful did not disrupt that peace.
And you know, even if you if you're careful, you might still

(01:06:13):
have tragedy like Tony. So like it's it's a lot, you
know, it's a lot to think about.And, you know, even if you do
Charlie hard, there's things outside your control that, you
know, it might, it might not help you away.
And that's where actual therapy kicks in.
So I don't think you know anyonethat just says Ryan's gonna fix
you. Yeah.
You still have to talk to, you know, therapists and, you know,
people outside are running because, yeah, you can't just

(01:06:33):
absorb. You can't just absorb yourself
into a sport and think it's gonna completely fix you.
Yeah. Definitely, for sure.
Well, John, thank you for your words of wisdom, for the
experiences allowing me to dive in and just ask all kinds of
things. Yeah, ton about you.
Really appreciate you. I appreciate it, man.
I didn't expect it to go this way, but it's good.
It's good to get that stuff out into the universe.

(01:06:54):
Yeah, for sure. 100%, man. Well, thank you so much.
Hey, thanks buddy. Thank you so much to John for
coming on the podcast and let medive into his life.
Really awesome guy. A lot of life experience.
He obviously really loves his daughter.
I really likes being a caregiveras and isn't an awesome
endurance athlete. Just hope he gets some more
sleep. So John, thank you so much for
coming on. If you guys meant to this point

(01:07:14):
in podcast though, just want to say thank you so much for being
here. Really appreciate it.
Check out the show notes in the description.
Got these stupid question socks and they have the question, who
am I on the top of the foot? So whenever you were putting
this on, you can think about whoare you?
Yeah, I really appreciate you guys for being here.
If you're on YouTube, like comment, subscribe, drop a
comment really helps to continueto grow us there.
And if you are listening on any of the spot podcast platforms

(01:07:38):
such as Spotify or Apple podcasts, you could like review,
comment, all of that really helps to continue to grow the
podcast. All right, thank you guys so
much for being here and thank you again, John for being on
here. And we will catch you guys in
the next one. Peace.

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#157 - John Calabrese, Ultra Runner, Dad and Caregiver

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#157 - John Calabrese, Ultra Runner, Dad and Caregiver