#192 - Round 2 - Mark Evans - Faith, Fear, and Finding Calm in the Chaos - Stupid Questions with Seth Hill

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
How's it going guys? Welcome back to another edition
of the Stupid Questions podcast.Today on the pod going to be
talking with Mark Evans. This is his round two interview.
If you haven't listened to the first episode, I would encourage
you to go do so, maybe to get a little more context for just who
he is. He tells amazing stories.
He is a retired Navy Master Chief, so he was, forgive me
Mark, if this is incorrect, but commander of submarine LED teams

(00:23):
to go all around the world to dodifferent things in that regard
and just a really great leader. Like I said, he tells really
good stories and is an awesome guy.
So this conversation is no different.
We go very deep on a number of different topics from leadership
to work, God, family, even a little bit of politics and how
that relates to this current atmosphere that we find

(00:45):
ourselves in. So it's a good conversation and
I appreciate having the freedom to have friends in this space
now that I can be a sounding board with and to to think about
thoughts and feelings and just things I believe and maybe don't
believe and this that any other.So thank you for being here.
Check out the show notes if you want to check out any of Mark's
stuff. Episode 200 is also coming up.

(01:06):
If you want to jump in to offer any ideas for what to do for
that episode, please share the show notes for that and you can
support the podcast in the same way.
All right, thank you guys so much for jumping in with me.
Really appreciate the opportunity to have this round
two interview with Mark Evans. So how you doing man?
I'm good. How about yourself?

(01:28):
I'm good I I'm recovering. I did Iron Man California on
Sunday which was super fun. Yeah, your second one, right,
not your first. Not my first.
It was my third one. It had been two years, so in a
lot of ways it felt like my first again.
I had some of the the nerves doing so many 70 point threes or
any race really. I guess I've kind of lost some
of the nerves getting nervousness.

(01:49):
But this one, I don't know. I don't know if I'll ever be
able to do an Ironman and not benervous.
Yeah. I mean, it's that's the whole.
Point. Yeah, exactly what do you mean?
Well. It should make you a little
nervous. You should.
Everything hard should make you nervous, right?
Yeah, yeah, A. Little bit yeah I'll be honest,

(02:10):
like 70 point threes I show likemy favorite part of a 70.3 is
pre race in transition yeah where people are like freaking
out. Got to get everything, Oh my.
God, pumping my back, my back wheels only got 65 lbs of PSI
instead of 68. Like, you know, and like, I, let

(02:37):
me preface this like I, I look at them through the eyes of a
father and through the eyes of someone who's, you know, been
through some tough things in life and it's just cute.
Like I, I look, I'm like, it's going to be OK, buddy.
Like, but honestly, it's my favorite part.
Like everybody's just freaking out.

(02:57):
I love, I, I love through experience and like just being
an old dude that knows things. I love when I am the calmest
person in the room. Like, you know, I don't, I'm not
like saying it's my claim to fame or like I have some
superpower. But in those moments I just

(03:19):
like, I like, relish it. Like, Yep.
Yeah. Well, yeah, I don't think you
would be able to relish it had you not been in the the place of
being a little nerve wracked before, right?
Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. I've been, I've been that guy.
Like, don't get me wrong. Yeah, same.
You know, my, my, you know, thisor that is not exactly perfect,
but I love, you know, to me like70 point threes.

(03:40):
Like I just go. That's that's like the end of
the race after the morning transition, watching everybody
kind of freak out a little bit and having some giggles.
Yeah, You know, the rest is it'sjust a long workout day.
Like I don't, I've never felt like I was never going to
finish. Like the only 70.3 at DNF was
the one I got hit by a car. And so, yeah, but fulls, like

(04:04):
I've done many fulls and I've never DNF to full, but I walked
a lot of marathons, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, no kidding. How many fulls have you done?
I think I had 10 I think. Wow, that's a lot.
Yeah. Do you feel like, because, well,
I guess I'll preface it with saying this.
So one of the greatest lessons that I've taken away from just

(04:26):
endurance sport in general, and forgive me if I told you this
before, but was going on like a really long, at the time was a
long bike ride was like 3 hours.And I was going with a group and
they were all much fitter than Iwas.
And honestly, the night before, I felt like it was a race.
Like that's how nervous I was got out there on that on that
ride. They dropped me like less than

(04:48):
20 minutes and they waited for me to stop sign.
I rolled up, couldn't get unclipped, fell on another guy.
Like it was just, you know, and then I was didn't fuel right.
So two hours in, like I'm still getting dropped off the back.
One guy comes back and gets me and it's just, oh, I was so
embarrassed. That guy would end up becoming
my coach. And we have a great relationship
now, but it's so interesting nowbecause I can go out in the same

(05:09):
level of effort for three hours and look up.
And your perspective is so much wider, even physically, like the
amount of information you're able to take in.
And so with Iron Man, I feel like I'm getting to that point a
little bit. This is my third one.
The first one was just like the elation of, oh, I'm going to do
it. The second one was actually I
was crying in the porta potty the the like literally the few

(05:30):
minutes before the swim, like I had given in to honestly, like
pornography the night before. I was up way too late, which is
screwing around. And then I get up and I start
going, dude. And I'm like, my mindset was not
there. And I walked half the marathon
and it was the worst mentally and physically I'd ever been.
So this one I was like, OK, well, I'll take it in stride.
If pain comes, I'll deal with itthen.

(05:51):
But I actually said stuff out loud like this is a gift.
And I noticed my pace quickened when I like said that and
believed that. So for you, what kind of things
have you learned about yourself and the ability to like keep a
wider perspective, I guess, as you've done 10 of them?
I'll tell you my my favorite, like I, you know, I, I crushed

(06:15):
Mont Tremblant one year like it's probably my best race ever.
I just was on that day felt really good and I thought that
was like the best possible outcome of a fall.
And then I was doing Iron Man Boulder.
The last year they had Iron Man Boulder and I just got the

(06:37):
water. The water was warmer than the
air temperature. It was freezing.
It was like 47° or something crazy.
And I got out of the water and Ipulled off my wet suit and I
just saw like steam come out of my wet suit.
And to this day, I'm convinced. Like that was my soul.

(06:57):
Leaving your body. I was like, oh, shit, I'm done.
Like, that's it. There goes, there goes my race.
Yeah. So, you know, but what I love
that race because I froze my butt off on the bike and I I
just couldn't eat. I was so I was so cold.
I was just like, and I kept trying to eat, but I couldn't

(07:18):
get nothing in. I think I finally warmed up at
the end of the bike and I got off the bike and I'm running
like a mile into the run. I'm like, yeah, I feel pretty
good. I ate nothing all day.
That's crazy. And like about 1/2 mile later I
was like, yeah, I'm done. I just immediately like it just
hit me like a ton of bricks. So, you know, I had 24 miles to

(07:43):
become an in race spectator and man, that that was such a great
experience because like my day was over.
So I was like, I got to get backto town anyway, you know, but I
met so many people. Like I started feeling bad for
myself. And then, you know, someone goes

(08:05):
by with one leg with big ol stinking smile on his face.
You know, keep going man. And, you know, you're like, all
right, perspective, like don't be such a loser.
And then, you know, I met the I,it was, I think, I think you'd
go into town and it was a doubleloop.

(08:25):
And I was on my 2nd loop. And there was there was this
guy, he had to be 350. Like he was big dude.
Yeah. And like, I could hear him
coming. Like I was walking and he was
shuffling and like, he just started yelling like, like, he's
like, you know, And like, I turnaround.

(08:46):
He's like, hey, what's up, buddy?
And he's like, is this your first lap or your second?
I'm like, oh, that's my second. He's like, oh, that's my first.
He goes, I'm in the back of the bus club.
They're like, the dude was just,yeah, he was just awesome.
So I like, shuffled with him. Like, I ran with him for a
little bit and he was like, justtell him.
He's like, yeah, you know, my dad died of a heart attack and I

(09:09):
got kids and, you know, like just random stuff that comes up
in a race and you're talking to this total stranger.
And like, that's I really fell in love with the sport.
Like, that's what I like. You don't get that in the half
distance. Like, you know what I mean?
Like, even if you walk, you might, you might, you don't
really. No one's really hurting that
bad. Yeah, it's like high intensity,

(09:29):
short burst type of thing. Yeah.
And honestly, that was like a shift in the dynamic of the
sport. Like I was kind of a a knife
hand atypical. Got to go fast if I don't go
faster. Every time, you know, I'm like,
got to have a carbon fiber freaking toilet paper.
Everything's got to be carbon fiber.

(09:51):
You know, that's funny. That's good.
After that, I was like, you knowwhat this is, this is fun, this
is cool. Like there's this after that.
It was an experience more so than a race for me.
Yeah, I wish everybody could experience that because I was
looking up some statistics even,you know, how what percentage of

(10:11):
the world does Iron Man? And there's something to be said
about people who are literally could not do one, or they're so
far removed culturally and physically from the locations of
them that it's not going to happen.
But the percentage of the world that actually completes an Iron
Man was .008 I believe, which islike very small.
But it's like everybody I know has done one.

(10:33):
I know, it's crazy. It's like communities everything
right? I swear, triathlon honestly is a
religion. I have thought about this more
and more like church is race, race day.
And you know, it's like swim clinics are going out to the
community or whatever it is. But what's super fascinating to
me about the Iron Man thing is, like, you're what you're talking
about, the stories that people come into those races with.

(10:57):
And you know, I had a similar experience you were talking
about with like, you're going onyour second loop and then
somebody else is on their first.I was talking with this older
guy who's his first ever Iron Man.
He was in his late 50s, and he was running faster than me.
And I was actually trying to keep up with him at that point
because I was hurting so bad. Got to watch those old men.
They got old man strength. Dude, I'm telling you like I
don't understand it. Like some of those men are the

(11:18):
the fastest out in the field. I've.
Tapped into it a few times. It's a man, yeah.
I want some of that. Yeah.
No, no, no. So you know, I was, I thought he
was on his second lap and I thought we were going to finish
together and he, I guess throughtalking with him, I figured out
that he was going on a second lap.
So we like split off there at the minute and for whatever
reason they gave me a boost because I was like, well, if
he's that positive still like I surely I can carry for the last

(11:40):
mile, you know, through the streets to come around.
And everyone deserves the experience to have been pushed
to a place where you question everything.
And I don't know if you can do, if people can, if you can just
hand that to somebody without like, I don't know, like without
having to do a lot of work to get to that place, you know what

(12:03):
I mean? Like what I'm trying to put
together. Oh yeah, no, I agree.
Yeah, I, I, I'm such a crotchetyold man man, I'll tell ya.
I so I'm, I'm, I'm kind of two things.
I'm like a 2 headed monster. I'm I'm like a 14 year old girl
because I'm on, I'm on Instagram, right?

(12:26):
You know, looking at my shares, yeah.
My likes, my comments. You know, but and then like I'm
a grumpy old man because I'll beon.
I'm like this. I feel like there's I'm trying
to say this politically correct,but I feel like.
There's. There's the there's a desire not

(12:50):
to be a victim, but to be somehow.
Hurt. Hurt by the world, like I feel
like there's a genuine desire and, and for me who's I've been
to actual places where it's pretty horrible, like like water

(13:10):
is a luxury, you know, and to see some of the people I see on
Instagram, like talking about got to be tough.
Like I, I think I talked about it in our first one, who's the
Navy SEAL? He's Alter No.
Jack David Goggins. Goggins, yeah, which look, David

(13:33):
Goggins is an amazing man. God bless him all more power
from him. But that mentality of God, you
know, my life sucks gotta just suck it up.
Do it. I I just.
I just. I think it has a very limited

(13:55):
application to real life. And I think people see that and
they're like, you know, they're like me sitting in a freaking.
This is $150.00 sweater. It's made from by Biori.
I love it. Hey, my life's not that.
If you're wearing $150.00 sweater, look at this coffee

(14:15):
cup. All right, This is handmade.
It is from like some, you know, country.
You know, look at this gold bar here like.
I'll get on Instagram in my viori, in my coffee cup where my
$600.00 Garmin watch and you know, talk about how rough I got
it. Yeah, it was real hard to get

(14:36):
into the pool this morning. Yeah.
Oh yeah. I'm, you know, I'm so proud of
myself. You know, it's interesting you
say that like I it is good to poke fun with that stuff because
it's a very real thing now It is.
There is a level of hardness to do those things.
But what you touched on is actually really fascinating to
me with this desire to be a victim because so I want to, I

(14:57):
want to share some. I don't think I've ever told
anyone this. Oh.
Boy. So like, you know my story a
little bit like my dad passed away when I was 16.
Right before that, I had no realself-awareness to kind of look
at my life in a way and say like, well, what are the hard
things I've gone through? Right?
Like that was the first thing that like really kind of turned
the line and like, oh, this is atough thing, but I kid you not

(15:18):
when I maybe so I was 16 probably probably six years
before that, I think I was 10, maybe even a little younger.
I was in middle school and this girl who I was in school with
her mom was dying of cancer. And I kid you not remembering
having the thought in my head, like, like, I want something

(15:39):
kind of bad to happen to me. I want people to feel like that
toward me. And I recognize that that was
not a right feeling. Like there's something messed up
in that space. And then when, when crap
actually hit the fan, like, and then, you know, I started to to
struggle like, well, I actually was like, did I bring this upon
myself? Like, which isn't true.

(16:00):
But like, you know, as a kid, you're going through like those
thought processes and trying to just make sense of the world.
And like even to the stage, I'vegotten older, like I've been
through some hard things and some of my friends, even mentors
have been like, no, use that like use it as a platform to
like share, you know, the positivity or whatever.
But part of me is like, well, maybe I should never just tell
anyone that at all. Because if that, if I cause

(16:24):
someone to feel that type of a thing, like where they want to
be the victim, I don't know, I'mkind of thinking out loud here
because I I never understood whythat is a desire.
Because secretly a lot of peoplewant a war to happen or like,
for chaos to be just bad or like, you know, yeah, tell me
what you're thinking. So I, I think that's a very, I

(16:45):
think that's part of being an adolescent.
I think there is especially, I can only speak from a man's
standpoint. I'm a man.
When I was young, the household I grew up in, the the men in my
household, my father, my older brothers were all valued based

(17:06):
on ability and achievement. It was different from my
sisters. I grew up in a very traditional
household. I'm not saying it's right or
wrong, but you know, my sisters were sweet and kind and and
pretty right. Southern Gal.
The the boys in my family, you know, we mowed grass and

(17:28):
shovelled and, you know, rode motorcycles and our ability in
sport and and to kind of help myfather around the house was how
we were valued. So I think at least from a man's
standpoint, I think that feelingof being untested is like am IA

(17:52):
man. Like I had to get through that
probably in my early 20s. Like, yeah, I, you know, I kind
of want something bad to happen so I could see how I really
react. You know, I think, I think now
we have like this trend of manufactured strife where we put
ourselves in difficult situations knowing that all we

(18:15):
really have to do is like, we can just stop and and go home,
you know, But in the absence of real strife, I think that's all
you really have to kind of measure The Who you are as a
person. And I get that.
And I'm not dogging on folks like you can't control.
Yeah, some people are born very blessed and have tons of money.

(18:38):
And, you know, I'm not saying they they don't, they're not
strong people. I'm just saying their tests are
different like than my test. My test was I woke up and tried
not to get beat up by my older siblings.
And then I went to school and tried not to get beat up at
school. You know, I was in survival

(19:00):
mode. Like, you know, why don't zebras
have ulcers? Did I talk about this last time?
I can't remember, maybe say it again.
No one remembers it if I don't. I think it's a book.
Why don't zebras have ulcers? OK.
So this, this doctor, I don't think I don't forget what kind
of doctor he was. He might have been a

(19:20):
psychiatrist. He went and he studied zebras in
Africa. And he's like, why don't these
zebras have ulcers? They're hanging around the lions
all the time. And alligators.
Stress. Yeah, Yeah.
Why aren't they stressed out? And you know what?
He came his conclusion was thereare different types of stress.
There's chronic stress like traffic and work and you know,

(19:44):
relationship things that are just like there looming and
that's not really good. That causes a lot of cortisol
and yeah, you're not healthy. But zebras don't have that
because they're either too dumb to know or they just don't care
about their surroundings. Zebras have what's called
episodic stress. So, you know, and they're just

(20:05):
eating grass, hanging out with their other zebra buddies,
joking and grab assing. On the, on the planes and you
know, then Lion shows up and they're like, right.
And like their heart starts pumping.
All their blood goes to their hind quarter so they can run as
fast as they can. And I mean their lungs, you
know, their, their oxygen capacity gets bigger.

(20:28):
Everything shuts down. That's not like in that flight.
Mode. And they get away and you know,
5 minutes later they're eating the grass again.
Like, Oh yeah, they. Must.
They must have got Bill, You know Anybody seen Bill?
No. And they're like, oh shit.
Well, I guess you. Know good enough to be Bill.
Keep eating. So and then but their heart rate

(20:50):
goes back to normal and, you know, and that's the, you know,
winal zebras have ulcers, right?Yeah.
And I think to some extent that's in us.
That's some kind of primal thingin, again, speaking from a male
perspective is we want, can we outrun that line?
You know, when the lion shows up, am I going to hesitate or am

(21:15):
I going to react as one of the more dominant of my species?
Right. That kind of mentality.
I think that's part of it, at least for me.
Yeah. I always want to know if I was
like, alive because of modern medicine or if my actual genetic

(21:38):
makeup was part of the equation that that would be alive if we
didn't have modern medicine, youknow, but.
What is your belief? What do you think?
What's the split like? Are you?
It sounds like you're still a little split minded on it.
I mean, I don't have, I'm missing several organs, so
modern medicine has really come away.

(22:00):
Like. I don't have a spleen.
I don't have an appendix, but I mean, yeah, I think for the most
part I come from good genes. Yeah, sure.
My dad was a tough guy, man. He was talking about no cardio,
I don't think. I've never seen that guy trot.

(22:22):
I mean, smoke 2 packs a day. He would drink, drink a gallon
and a half of coffee every morning.
Never exercised, always stressedout, but he lived to be 90.
You know, I have AI have a theory about that.
I'd like to see what you think about that.
And I I throw this at a Scott Tyndall from fueling and he was

(22:43):
vehemently opposed to a degree, I should say, but he had a very
strong opinion on it. But I think honestly a huge
piece of that has got to be lesswith like the extracurricular
things that we add into our system, which those do matter.
Drinking shows like doesn't helpyou out.
Smoking doesn't help you out like, but our quality and

(23:04):
nutrition value of food. Because in America, I don't
know, I've been to went to New Zealand like last December for
worlds and the food there was like everything is farm to table
with. This I went to Portugal.
It was like my body have never felt better.
Yeah. So America, we're all like
capitalism, which is, I like capitalism, but I don't like
capitalism when it comes to agriculture like it's.

(23:25):
It's, it's greed, man. It's.
Yeah, it's crazy, but everything's just dead.
Like there's nothing really there except like the bare
structure and then all the nutrients, they're just like
gone. Yeah, yeah, Letty, my wife is a,
she's a nutritionist, so she deals.
She's always telling me like don't eat that like and she

(23:49):
helped me a lot in my recovery. Like I would say 80% of my
recovery was diet, supplements, things that I have never done
like ashwagandha and zinc and and magnesia.
I don't even know what it is. Could have been poison for all I
know. She's trying to kill me but.

(24:10):
She wants your money. What are you?
Talking about, I know I got a really good life insurance, man,
I'll tell you. But yeah, And it made a huge
difference. Like I would be sore or stiff
and then she would, you know, give me something and, you know,
just do like exercises, like movement was definitely my, my
number one medicine. I would go for walks every day.

(24:33):
I would go for like 3 hour walkswhen I was in my, my brace, my
broken neck and back. I was tired afterwards.
I, and that's really the only time I slept because I was
exhausted. But it was it was good, good
mentally too, like getting out and.
With your spleen, because that filters blood like the old bad

(24:56):
blood. Like what do you?
Are you just full of bad blood now?
I guess so. Oh, it was trauma related, like
people lose their spleen becauseof some chronic illness or some
type of genetic disease. I was on a motorcycle and I had
a tree at age 14 and it it ruptured.
I had interim bleeding so had had to be removed and the doctor

(25:20):
said, so essentially they gave me, I think it's called
Pneumovax. It's like this because your
spleen is part of your immune system.
It helps with viral stuff. So it gave me a Pneumovax, I
think it's called. I'm not a doctor, but my memory
serves me correct from, you know, 35 years ago.

(25:42):
It was a Pneumovax and the doctor said you're either going
to, you're going to be fine, you're going to be normal.
He said you'll you'll either getsick all the time or you'll
never get sick. It's funny because I went to a
high school with a kid who lost his spleen and it's around the
same time and he he is sick all the time and I knock on wood as

(26:07):
long as I eat right and sleep well I rarely get sick.
Rare. That's fascinating.
Yeah. I wish that, yeah, I wish there
was like an in depth study of that to like understand like the
other parts of the immune system.
Because you know, if some peoplelose, I've heard if they lose 1
type of sensory or sense, like asight or smell or taste or

(26:29):
whatever, like the other ones will kind of turn up a notch to
kind of compensate. So I'd love to know, like what
pieces of your immune system have compensated?
Obviously eating healthfully, like that one's huge.
That one's just like an external.
Thing. So that's the thing, right?
How much is it? How does that other.
My friend in high school, did heeat right and sleep well?

(26:50):
I don't know. Maybe he didn't and maybe that's
why he's sick all the time. Yeah, maybe it's just weakened
him enough that if you're not eating right and not sleeping
well, you get sick. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Yeah.
Again, all anecdotal, but my experience, I lived a normal
life and in fact, I joined the military submarines.

(27:11):
I got two years into my first submarine tour and I went up to
medical. They're like, Evans, you need to
go up to medical. My God.
OK, My God. Oh, like what's wrong with me?
I go up there and the doc walks in and he's like, you don't have
a spleen. I'm like, Nope.
He's like, you're not allowed tobe in the military.

(27:33):
How'd you get through that? So I mean, he the guy, he just
was like, do you have any issues, like carry on
medication? And I'm like, Nope, He's like,
do you ever have any problems? I'm like, Nope, he's like, do
you want to stay in the military?
I'm like, Yep, he's like, we'll get you a waiver.
Nice. Just signed a waiver.

(27:53):
If you die, we're not responsible.
What in the world did that waiver say?
We're not giving you a spleen. Yeah, it just waived that
requirement. You know, people get waivers for
all kinds of things in the military.
Like if you do drugs recreationally, I don't know if
they changed it now, but like ifyou smoked marijuana in high
school and you are honest and you tell them that when you go
to the recruiter that you have to get a waiver for that.

(28:16):
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, as long as it's
recreational. Yeah.
But if it's medical, yeah, interesting.
Well, back then it was when I went in.
Was having a thing? Yeah.
But like, you can't be, you can't be like, yeah, man, I was
smoking every day because I'm addicted to it.
Or, you know, even cocaine or hair, like any drug, as long as

(28:37):
it was, I did it one time to tryit.
They'll give you a waiver. Yeah.
If you're like, yeah, I'm snorting a pound of coke a day.
It's probably. Did you, did you have to waive
other things such as that? I was such AI drank beer, man.
We were all in the woods next tofires drinking beer and you know

(28:59):
what that stuff was around. But I don't know.
I just never I never it never like crossed my path and I never
really sought it out. I was just happy getting drunk
and jumping over the fire, you know, unless literally, we would
literally go up in the up in thewoods and build a bonfire and

(29:21):
sit there and drink beer. And jump over it.
I jumped over fire but I never got drunk so I I must be a
special kind of stupid. I only done it drunk, so I
guess, yeah, together we make one person, but yeah.
So a couple of things, I guess. First, I want to congratulate
you officially. You got officially married,
what, not too long ago, just like 8910?

(29:43):
Weeks, August 25th. August 25th.
So yeah, Congrats. Thank you.
Yeah. I have no idea why she was
marrying me, but hey. You haven't.
I'm going to ride this train till it derails, you know?
Yeah, how old are you again? Remind me?
I'm 50. She's 30.
Yeah, she's actually 31 now. So for a brief moment, we're

(30:05):
only 19 years apart. Yeah, but I'll be 51 soon
enough. And.
Yeah, but. And I also lost my job last
week. Oh, shoot, dude, I was going to
ask you what's what's going on in the work world?
Yeah, what happened? Yeah, well, I.
Think you're allowed to say? It's just unnecessary evil in

(30:30):
the industry I'm in. So I work for the government
reductive reducing in force and we had gone through three
reductions in force three. We got rid of 1/3 of our entire
workforce and they're like, we got to do one more and they
nabbed me on the last one. So.
Sheesh, what were you doing specifically?

(30:51):
I forgot. So I'm a systems engineer.
I work on Saccom, satellite communication systems.
Yeah. Integrating new technologies
into weapon systems, stuff like that.
For the Navy and the Army. You know, I'll be OK.
I got a nice severance package, believe it or not.

(31:11):
I was thinking, you know, initially you're like, Oh my
God, I lost my job. And then, you know, as I'm
sitting in my $150.00 viewer sweater drinking coffee from
some place that some poor butterdoesn't even have water, I
realized that the biggest stressor in my life was my job.

(31:32):
Like not even close. Like the work that I did or that
I do is very cerebral. I don't want to like sound like
I'm some kind of genius, but it's a lot of problem solving
and thinking and, you know, trial and error.
So I found myself to be always at work, you know, even like on

(31:58):
a long bike ride, I'd be thinking about a work problem or
a long run. I'd be thinking about it.
So in the pool, not no better place to think about anything
integrating technology into SACOM systems than when you're
surrounded by water in the silence of the swim.
But I don't like that I don't like it.
I think I think it made me a bitbitter.

(32:23):
Like I, I had like a pretty healthy disdain for work.
And, you know, Lynette, who is avery aware, alert person, she's
very in tune, especially with me, a lot more in tune with me
than I am with her. She's wonderful.

(32:44):
And she's like, you know, since you lost your job, she's like,
after the one day of like stressing out, she's like,
you're very calm. I was going to say, you seem a
bit lighter than like last time.Yeah, right.
You know, and she's, and I thought about it and like you.
God, I hate that you're right and that you know me better than

(33:06):
me. But yes, 100% right.
I'll find something, man. Yeah.
It's, I mean, it's, it's literally the only thing I got
going on in life that I'm like, minor concern.
Yeah. Kids are kids are healthy.
My son's in Panama City and the Air Force living the dream.

(33:29):
My daughter's just got a new job.
She's doing well. She lives with me, you know,
Nettie's doing well so. What do you want for?
Yeah, how? How old do you want to live too?
Man, so I want to, I want to live like I think anybody be

(33:59):
lying if they didn't say they want to live to be like 120 and
see their great grandkids. And you know, of course I'd love
that. I don't, I don't want to be a
burden on anyone and I and I want to be able to live.
So for me it's about quality andnot quantity.

(34:21):
And I know that sounds crazy, but I just, I just, I just don't
want to be like my grandmother lived with us when we were kids
and she lived to be like 97, butshe stopped talking to me when
she was like 88. Like I would go into down she

(34:45):
had, we had a basement she livedin and I would go down there and
she'd be like, there's a man, there's a man in my basement and
I'm like, grandma, it's me. Like, like, sure, you had
dementia. He probably took like, 30 pills
a day. And they were like, 1 was for
pain, and then one was for, like, to bring her onto them.
Yeah, exactly. And and, you know, of course I

(35:09):
love my grandmother. And, you know, I'm glad I got to
know her and be around her. But I think even she like it
with a clear body in mind, like if she could see the last 10
years of her life, she'd be like, Nah, please just put me,
put me under an oak tree somewhere and come see me every

(35:29):
now and then. I'm, you know, and that's,
that's what I want. My dad, that guy.
So I, you know, big fan of my dad.
And he was he like calls his shot.
He's like, yeah, I'm just going to, I just one day I'm just
going to go and like, I'm and that's, that's how he died.
He was talking. I was sitting in his chair, his

(35:50):
favorite chair, talking to my mom.
And my mom now asked him a question.
She wasn't looking at him. And she's like, his name is his
name is Dick. Get it out.
Now. Everybody laugh.
OK? That's what they call it.
His name is Richard. Yeah.
But he insisted on being called Dick.
And my mother's name is Ethel. So Dick and Ethel, it should be

(36:10):
ATV show. But my my mom was like, like,
Dick, Dick, I just asked you a question.
And like she turned and he was just sitting in his chair, like
just slumped over and that was it.
And they, they actually, they, they called the ambulance and
they like resuscitated him to get his heart started again.
But he was brain dead. Like the only thing that like it

(36:33):
gave like the kids time to they kept them on life support to
come and say goodbye. But hold a warm hand, it makes a
big. Difference exactly, exactly.
And I'm, and I'm thankful for that, like I was, you know,
tough to see, but I'm glad I gotan opportunity.
Say goodbye. And he'll be 1718.

(36:54):
It'll be 7 years next week. He died.
So. Yep, great great guy.
Man, what of? I cannot tell you how blessed I
am like my the two people I admire the most, my heroes in my
life and my father and my son. Like 100%, no doubt the best

(37:19):
human beings I've ever been around.
And it's like awesome. You know, some people search
their whole life and they never have somebody to like, emulate
that really impacts their life. My dad was that for me and now
my son. I'm so upset that I have all

(37:41):
these speeches in my head about being responsible and having
integrity and, you know, being anice guy and I have the most
responsible, nice, honourable son on the planet.
And it's like, all right, buddy,just you just ruined my my
pleasure. Yeah, you can't sit him down and

(38:02):
bestow your wisdom now. He's telling me stuff that, Oh
my God, you're right, I should probably do that, but.
Wow, Well, that says a lot aboutyou as a father.
I mean, as a steward of, of a, of a young life.
I mean, obviously he didn't justlearn everything from you, but
it sounds like you were probablythe biggest influence in his
life. Yeah, I was a good kid.

(38:25):
How does that make you feel as adad?
Ah, I mean gushing, man. Yeah.
It's hard to talk about because,you know, no one cares about
your kids. Really.
Like they kind of ask, oh, how'sthe kids doing?
I'm like, well, back in 2005, mychildren, you know, like I just
start my dissertation. But yeah.

(38:45):
And that's that's the kind of stuff I always come back to in
times of like strife, you know, when I'm troubled, I think about
like, God, I don't really have much to complain about, you
know? And for me, that's been, you
know, the overarching theme of my life is, yeah, I've been

(39:07):
through tough stuff, but God, I got it really good.
Like, yeah, yeah. I feel guilty when I start
complaining. And I do, I have moments of
weakness and I sure bitching, but usually very short lived.
And I just get back to it and realize that it's probably not
that bad that there's probably some kid in Africa somewhere

(39:30):
wondering where he's going to get his next meal or, you know,
you know what I mean? Like it's just so and I think
that's that's uniquely American.You know, you could say western,
but I think it's uniquely American.
We have, we have it so good in this country that we don't
understand sometimes that we have it that good.

(39:54):
I'm not, I'm not minimizing things like there are real
problems. We have really valid issues and
people have hard lives. And that's not what I'm saying.
Yeah, I'm just saying we also have an absorbent amount of
opportunity in this country and that's not the case everywhere.

(40:16):
So. You can.
We can kill ourselves with prosperity.
You can kill yourself with prosperity if you don't.
Well, I think you get lulled into the I deserve.
I love when people say that that's I deserve.
OK, I'll I'll bring it back to triathlon, something very
current events and I'm going to take a beat now for this.

(40:38):
But the, you know, with the, theslot allocation, I just, I
deserve a slot. I was top ten overall.
I deserve I. No you don't, you know.
It's a hot take. The, the, the, the rules were

(41:00):
set, everybody was, was under the same guidelines, OK.
And some of those guidelines were set based on previous
feedback, but now that it didn'twork out your way, we start with
the I deserves. Like I'm willing to listen to

(41:22):
compromise and and new ideas. But when you start a
conversation with I deserve, I'mgone.
Like you just lost me. Because in my mind that tells me
that you have some ulterior motive that is self-serving.
And it's, it's, it's not a good way to approach any problem in

(41:44):
life, right? If you're, if you're approaching
everything through this lens of you and how it specifically
effects you, I think you're being a bit nearsighted.
And then I think, I think that'sagain, something uniquely
Western and American. It is interesting.
I'm looking up the the actual definition of the word deserve

(42:06):
because in my mind, as you're saying this, I'm asking my the
question myself. The question does anybody
actually deserve anything? Does a child deserve to be loved
by their parents? And I think that they don't
actually. What do you think?
Man, I think that's philosophical in in some ways,

(42:27):
because love, right? What is love?
Yeah. Are you asking me human answer?
Yeah. What's love?
I would say God is love. And what is God?
God is love, love is God. I don't know.
Like it's a it's. A You're asking me, yeah.
Does a child deserve love? Yeah.

(42:49):
You have a different definition of love than I do.
Do I? Yeah.
What's yours? What's yours?
Because I don't have a child yet.
Right? Like this.
Is that where you're getting at?No, I'm just saying that you
what what is considered loving, what you would consider love may

(43:09):
be different than what other people will consider love,
Right. So does a child deserve love?
Yes. But I think when you're talking
about the deserve side of thingsand when you're, when you say I
deserve love, you're not, you'resaying you're not saying I

(43:31):
deserve love, you're saying I deserve to be loved the way that
I want you to love me. And I think that's where deserve
deserve is introspective, right?So if you're saying I deserve
dinner, right, you're not sayingI deserve nutrition and

(43:56):
sustenance, right, 'cause I could give you spaghetti and
meatballs, but you don't like spaghetti and meatballs, so
you're saying I should get lasagna.
So they're saying I desire rather than I deserve.
Right. And I think, I think deserve and
desire are derived from the sameword.
And, and it's because when you say I deserve love, I feel like

(44:20):
you're telling the world that you want something, but you want
it in the way to manifest in theway that you want it to
manifest. Does that make sense?
Yeah, that makes sense. I see.
So when someone says I deserve something, you know, sure.

(44:43):
So and I used to tell my kids when they used to talk like
that, like I'll solve your problem for you.
I'll give you what you want. You're not going to like it.
I'm going to, I'm going to specifically make it so you
don't like the way I give it to you to, to teach you the lesson
that you don't deserve anything,that you don't get things the

(45:07):
way you want them all the time. You get things the way you need
them. And that's life.
And, you know, you get, you get food sometimes you don't like
and but it's food. Yeah.
You know, so I have a tough spotwith the deserve thing.
I'm. I'm not.

(45:28):
I dig it. A genius.
But I that's my experience and Ithink, I think anybody who
starts a conversation what I deserve, they're trying to fill
a hole that not everybody can see.
So you know. I did want to read Deserve.
Stuff. Yeah, I just want to read this
super quick because as I was looking it up, like the lat for

(45:49):
Latin, the root of deserve is it's DESERVIREI can't say it's
Brett Desvere or something like that.
Meaning to serve or to devote oneself to the service of and in
this case, like another. So like when you're talking
about like deserving of love, I guess that's what love really
is. It's like it's a form of
service. I think that's what I would call

(46:10):
it. Because like as you, you know,
your your children, my children,my wife's pregnant right now.
So like my child deserves me to provide for it because it, it
cannot provide for itself. So like that's a form of love.
Like that's truly what I think love is.
Because I, I don't deserve anything outright.

(46:30):
I need things. And those needs can only be met
by an act of service from another.
Yep. But going back to what you're
saying with like the deserving thing too with your kids, I
remember being young and pushingthe envelope and saying like the
complete opposite of like, you know, trying to be the
contrarian or I kind of with I deserve this.
And like almost wanting my father or wanting my father to

(46:53):
be like, no, like I'm not going to do this for you.
Or, you know, like to kind of have that hard line on something
because kids say one thing, theythink another.
But we're like trying to find the boundaries of our morality
from a very young age. I feel like, well, what do we
want? And then and like also like my
mom and dad, when I would argue with my mom, part of me would be
like, dad, I want you to back mom up here.

(47:14):
Like I'm kind of testing you, but I'm calling you out loud to
like support me. But I want to.
See, you stand up for that woman.
Yeah, like, but it's interestinglike the how kids work in that
way. I'm thinking a lot about this,
obviously, because my wife's almost six months pregnant and
I'm like. I know man, you got, it's like
boot camp for you. We got to get you all loned up.
I know send me through coach like I'm ready.
I want to go through boot camp honestly.

(47:35):
You know what? Don't worry about being a dad,
dude. You're ready.
No thanks man. It'll come to you.
Yeah. Yep, there's no such thing as
being ready to be a parent. Yeah, sure that how do you.
How? What do you?
Yeah, tell me what you do to prepare.
I don't know man, I think. Because I guarantee you the
first thing that's going to happen is the thing you thought

(47:57):
would never happen. You're back, OK.
Yeah, and that's why I'm going to try to keep all of my stuff
in check for all of these thoughts and plans I have for
this little life. You become extremely grateful as
a parent. You're like, I'm just glad only
one of them pooped their pants. At the same time.
I had twins. Ah dude, let's go.
So I was ready to be a dad. Oh, let's do this.

(48:19):
And they're like, well, you got 2 now I'm like, Oh my God, I'm
I'm in trouble. You know it's.
So funny. I wanted twins so bad.
Yeah. I mean, it was great.
People always ask me, what was it hard?
Like I had zero and then I had two.
I don't know, Was one easier? It seems like it would be, but

(48:40):
maybe not. They had a playmate all the
time. Like I could put them in a pen
and they would just, like, droolon each other.
That was kind of cool. But getting out of diapers was.
That was a major milestone. Yeah, they would all.
I'd be so tired. I'd come home from work and, you
know, my spouse at the time, shewould be tired too, taking care

(49:02):
of the kids all day and like, I'd be like, nodding off and
like, never failed. Just both of them would just,
like, fill their diaper to the Max.
Do you know what I mean? And we're not talking like you
could just change it. We're talking like they need to
be hosed down, you know? You do miss.

(49:23):
That stuff, I will say that you do miss that.
I always joke with my daughter because she lives in Maine and
she she works at a kennel. She loved that and she worked at
a like a kennel assistant. Spraying lots of poop.
He cleans up a lot of dog poop and stuff.
So I'm like, oh, it's good practice for when when I get
older and you got to change my diaper and she's like, oh dad,

(49:44):
let's go gross. I'm like well I changed your
diaper for like 4 years. That's so interesting you
brought that up with the dog kennel man, because that brought
back a memory I have not had andsince I think I was 13.
So I got in a fight at school and I had to do community
service and I worked at a dog kennel for like 3 days and I was
like, oh I'm going and I'm in trouble, you know, and they,

(50:05):
they do that to kids. I thought I was going to get
like thrown in prison, but anyway, I was working with dogs
and spray and poop and, and it was like the first time that
like I realized when you actually get in trouble, most
people don't treat you like you're just a piece of trash.
Like they actually just want to kind of help you out.
And that really shifted my mind on punishment and stuff like
that. But the for whatever reason, the
dog poop brought that up. Yeah, so you'll be fine as a

(50:32):
dad, man. Thanks man.
So I want to thank you, thank you.
I, I will say one last thing before just because we're
talking about kids. So I went to go see my sister,
my middle sister. She's the only one with kids
right now. She has a 1 1/2 year old and a
four month old who I got to see for the first time.
So a little girl. And at this time I did not know

(50:52):
if I was having a girl or not, but I saw like, I love my little
nephew. He is adorable, he's awesome.
And I can't wait for us to get older and, you know, be able to
have the uncle, you know, relationship.
But with my daughter, with my sister's little daughter.
Man, when I looked in that little girl's eyes for the first
time, she just lights up. And like, all I want to do is

(51:14):
like, I feel like I'm giving hersomething that I cannot quantify
when I look in her eyes and holdthat gaze.
Because you know, the studies that show when you lock eyes
with someone, like there's an exchange of serotonin and these
other chemicals. But I feel I was like, I was
just so aware in that moment that this is what girls need.
This is actually what my daughter will need.
It's just to be seen very, in a very real way.

(51:37):
And it just like hit me so hard in the gut, man, where I, I
actually started crying a littlebit and then I found out I was
going to have a girl. I was like, Oh my goodness, I'm
going to have the opportunity togive her that.
And there's nothing more exciting but like earth
shatteringly scary at the same time.
Like to know that that's my responsibility like.
You're going to impact your children's lives more than you
know. And here's here's what I

(51:59):
learned. Like, and this was not on
purpose, but you know, all the speeches I had and all the
things I wanted to teach them, The biggest influence over my
children was the example I set for them. 100%.

(52:20):
I see it. My son does things that I do and
I'm like, where do you learn that from?
You know? And, you know, specifically with
my daughter who was just sittingon the couch, but she's not here
now so I can talk about her. She struggles with attention.
Like she wants attention specifically from the opposite

(52:43):
sex. She's 19, which is natural.
And I'm, I'm OK with it. Like, I get it, you know, but
the attention that I give her orhave given her her whole life,
like the loving attention, you know, hugging, telling her
positive things about herself, that kind of stuff.

(53:07):
I'm reaping the benefits of thatnow because she was in some
relationships where she was getting negative attention from
boys. And I would just ask her
questions. I'm like, what?
I would be like Olivia, if, if this guy likes you would.
So if someone says this to you, does that make you think that
they like you or does that make you think that maybe they don't

(53:32):
like you, but they just want to get something from you?
And she's like, they probably don't like me because that's not
very nice. I'm like, there's your answer,
you know. So I think giving her that
baseline of what a man's. Should.
Positive attention is supposed to be, is helpful for her.
Yeah. And again, I didn't do that on

(53:53):
purpose. I just, you know, I love the
little shit. Like, she's my daughter.
And I just there's one day you're going to come home and,
like, she's going to, like, elevate out of her bed and her
head's going to spin around backwards and like vicious,
vicious things to you. And you're just, you're just
going to be sitting there like, I still love you.

(54:14):
I don't know what the, you know,but, yeah, just be a good
example, man. And I think because I went
through a divorce, not a great example, but I sat them down and
I explained to them, you know, this is what I did.
This is why it happened. This is what I regret about it.

(54:38):
And I'm sorry for XY and Z and you know, we talked about it for
a little bit and that was it. I think being a good example and
and accountable when you're not because we're not perfect.
We try to act perfect in front of our kids, but they know they
they watch, man. Yeah, for sure.

(55:00):
Like little little mega computers, they remember
everything. Little sponge sucks it up
everything. Trust me, dude, yeah.
I'm looking forward to it. Well, I want to shift gears a
little bit. I want to ask you a couple more
things. They're pretty big topics.
One of them is about God, because I know we talked last
time a little bit about forgiveness.

(55:21):
You told the story about the young man who you know, died on
your watch essentially. And I thought about that
conversation quite a bit. I don't have necessarily a
follow up question other than tosay in kind of an observation
like it in some of your posts, like I've seen a little bit more
of like the openness to talk about God.
And I don't know if you've done that in the past or not.

(55:42):
So if you have, forgive me for assuming something here, but I
guess I would just wanted to seelike, well, how's your
relationship with God going? Like what's what's been the
things that you're you're thinking about wrestling with or
have peace about? Yeah, I mean, I am a Christian,
I believe in God. I am not a big fan of religion

(56:09):
and if you don't know the difference between faith and
religion, I, I encourage you to kind of educate yourself.
I think, I think God gets a bad rap sometimes because his
message gets twisted to manipulate people.
So you know, yes, I, I have a, avery robust relationship with

(56:32):
God and Jesus, right? I don't, I don't advertise that
like it's like religion and politics, right?
Do the best thing to bring up ata party.
But I for a long time I felt that's a very intimate thing,

(56:53):
like I don't need to share that with everyone.
Doesn't matter what I think or what I believe, I'd say with,
with God, I'm concerned about some things.
You know, the, the I try not to be over reactive to headlines,

(57:18):
but for the for the first time in my life, I see things
happening that I thought would never happen.
And that like you don't need to be, you don't need to be a
Christian or God to generally feel bad when something bad
happens. Like I feel like that's pretty

(57:40):
human whether you believe in Godor not.
But I feel like there is a, a surge in evil.
And that's why I have started tooutwardly show that I have a

(58:01):
relationship with God because, you know, there's that saying
like, you know, something to theeffect like the, the world goes
to hell when good men do nothingright or something like that.
So I do feel a bit obligated to at least show how I lean, but I

(58:25):
don't, I don't wish anybody I'll, I'm not going to be on the
street corner telling people they're going to go to hell if
they don't repent. I'm not that's not the
relationship with God that I have.
The relationship that God I haveis do the best you can every
day. Try to be a good person.
If people ask for your opinion and genuinely seek out your

(58:49):
advice, give it to them and giveit to them in a form that they
can comprehend. Meet them where they're at.
You know, if you go to somebody who has been manipulated by a
religion through either their parents or a past experience,
and you start with down the pathof, oh, you got to go to church
every Sunday and they're going to tune you right out, you know,

(59:12):
So you know, my relationship with God is about opportunities
will present themselves. God will send people to me and I
will evaluate what they are and address them appropriately.

(59:33):
You know, I'm, I'm friends with a lot of people that don't
believe in God, but they admire me.
So, you know, at least we're still talking.
Yeah. You know, and that's, that's
what it's about. I I think we want it to be black

(59:55):
and white and that fits really nice in our head, but it's not.
It's complicated. It's nuanced.
Lynette, my wife, she's, she grew up in the Mormon church and
I have friends that are Mormons and her whole family's Mormon.

(01:00:16):
And they don't think, well, I'm not going to speak for them, but
obviously they don't think that my belief in God is the right
one. Some of them, but there are many
things in the Mormon church thatare very problematic.
And Lynette has experienced first hand some of those things.

(01:00:36):
So, you know, even in our relationship, how I perceive God
and how her relationship with God is, we had to figure that
out. And I think we're we're very
much aligned. So that's good, Yeah.
Thank you for sharing all that. Hey, no problem.
Appreciate it. Yeah, I, I was just going to say

(01:00:57):
I, you know, a couple of things.You know what you said earlier
about kids, you know, by example, I think that is like
the best way, as Jesus says, like by their fruits you shall
know them. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't, not that you're
necessarily asking, but I, I am.I am a little, you know, it's
interesting since I've started in this podcast, I consume quite
a bit of podcasts. I listen to the ones I really

(01:01:20):
like, right. Chris Williamson with modern
Wisdom, Joe Rogan, Lex Friedman,some of those pretty big ones.
And there's something that I started noticing when I first
started this like, you know, 2 1/2 years ago now, which is
crazy to say. Like this topic of it was like
cultural Christianity. So like observing the what would
be said as like a culturally a Christian value set and like,

(01:01:43):
oh, well, that's good. And you know, we should apply
that like to, you know, you should be kind to everyone,
which is totally true, totally fine.
And now, like in our nation, it's been really interesting to
see it swing. It was so far over here, like, I
don't know if you could go any farther.
And now the pendulum is gaining momentum and swinging the other
direction. And I I'll say that when you

(01:02:05):
know, on the topic. So just top politics and
religion, if you go back to the dark ages or the Protestant
Reformation, you had where the church in the state were
essentially one body. Sure.
And like I I that that's where alittle bit of my like, oh,
that's a little trepidatious to me, because soon as people start
ascribing that to like the tribal mentality of politics,

(01:02:27):
it's like, well, somebody's going to take it too far and
it's going to go and be pushed so far that direction.
So I've been a little like, man,that that's terrible.
Like I'm a little concerned about that just with the whole
thing. What happened with Charlie?
I think that traumatized so manypeople and it's horrible to see,
you know, nobody deserves that. But then like at his funeral, I

(01:02:48):
and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this, if you don't
mind sharing. And this is kind of a hot topic
and touchy. But like with the way that the
funeral thing was done, where wehad a lot of like these heads of
state coming in and kind of using his death and the way he
was killed as like a means to anend, seemingly to get power back
where an influence back where ithad been evaporated before.

(01:03:08):
That make it makes me a little concerned because I think in the
future, whenever that is it fully bloomed, it will be well,
the world needs a rest day or the world needs this.
And if you don't get on board now and go to church at this day
and you're not a part of our values, then we'll kill you.
Because that's literally what like the Catholic Church did in

(01:03:29):
the in the Protestant information.
And we're still humans and genocide still happens.
Rwandan genocide stuff going on in Gaza called genocide or not
like humans are human. We haven't changed truthfully.
So like, that's, that's like I'mlike, what does that actually
mean? What do it, where do I, how do I
stand? Because like I've always loved
Jesus, but is it just should I just do only fruits?

(01:03:51):
Is that what I should only do? Should I not ask these
questions? Should I not ask my guests?
What do they think about God? And you know, that kind of
stuff. I don't know.
I'm like thinking out loud here with you.
Pretty sure you're in charge with content at your podcasts
but. I definitely am, although one
person one time did say I'll letyou know if my PR department
says that we can air it and I had a pretty big conversation
with that person. Oh, wow.

(01:04:13):
Well, you know, I, I think you got to do what feels right to
you, you know, be you let everybody else adjust
accordingly. And you know, I think that's
what people gravitate to. Like you talk about Joe Rogan,
like I love his podcast because he's Joe Rogan.

(01:04:35):
He's never trying to sell you something, never saying
absolutes like you have to do this or you have to do that.
He just gives you things to think about and he lets you know
and that's it. Draw your conclusion.
Yeah. Right.
And I think, you know, you brought up Charlie Kirk.

(01:04:56):
I I'm extremely disappointed that we lost that man, just from
a, a purely philosophical standpoint, extremely, very
highly educated, very. Articulate.

(01:05:18):
Articulate. He had a lot of really good
ideas of different ways to approach things.
And you know, if you want to talk about he said this or he
said, I have never seen him say anything that wasn't from a
place of logic. Like, I've never heard him call
people names. I've only seen him like be

(01:05:41):
respectful. Now, when he was attacked, he
responded, but he usually responded with some type of
logic. And you know, people don't like
that. And I understand that nobody
likes having them shown to be inferior in some way.
Now, that said, I agree. I think I think the political

(01:06:06):
machine I was, I talked to Neddyand I'll show you like every
time I hear a news story, I can tell you if it involves someone
who is not white, just by the way, just by the way the
headline reads. And that's wrong.
And that's it's done on, you know, on both sides, right.

(01:06:31):
But no, like the, you know, you look at the George Floyd thing
and I think that's what Charlie Kirk, he became the Auntie
George Floyd, right? Like the funeral for George
Floyd was absurd, absurd. You had all these people never
knew the guy, you know, showing up, kneeling at his coughing,

(01:06:53):
crying, like politicians crying.And it's are you serious?
Like how disgusting to utilize something for your political
gain. And that's, and that's what
happened with the Charlie Kirk thing, right?
Right on the other side of the aisle.

(01:07:13):
Yeah, and it was probably prettier.
And, you know, white people liked it a lot better, right?
They had more music artists. Right.
And I just don't think it's right.
And I will say this like I've had people approach me and like,
oh, you know, you buy a car and you do this and that.

(01:07:36):
And I'm like, Nah, like literally fuck no, that's me.
That's me. That's that's my life.
That's something that I went through and I no one is going to
profit off of that. Like I'm not doing it because
it's disrespectful to the personthat I am.

(01:07:57):
It's disrespectful to the woman who hit me who later took her
life. Sheesh.
And you know, like, that's whereI'm at.
Like I, I am not going to exploit something to make myself
appear better or to gain in any way, right?

(01:08:18):
That was something very personalthat happened to me.
It's not something I want commercialized.
I think someone suggested I sellhats.
I have this hat. It has a patch on it.
It says I got the patch in Afghanistan.
It has fun meter and it's maxed out.
And I got in Afghanistan and youknow, we'd, it'd be the

(01:08:39):
shittiest day ever and we'd all put our fun meter patch on, you
know, and you know, I just kept the patch and I have a hat.
I got a pull patch hat and you can put Velcro patches on it and
I wore it a lot during my rehabilitation because it
reminded me of who I was becauseI needed that guy back to get

(01:09:05):
through that. So, you know, a couple people
saw it and commented like, oh, you should sell hats with that
patch on it. Like Nah, there's only one way
to get this patch and you weren't fucking there.
So you're not getting it. You know what I mean?
And that's, and that's right, wrong or different.
That's how I feel. So I don't feel like you should

(01:09:27):
be exploiting people. And we do that a lot.
We exploit everything. Yeah.
And I'm sure I've done it. But I think it's, I think I will
say I think the world is gettingless of a an affinity to
appreciate things like that. Like they see it for what it is.
Yeah, the BS detector, everyone's getting a little more

(01:09:48):
tuned in. Yeah, yeah.
And I think that's a good thing.Yeah, 100%.
Because like, yeah, that was incredibly sad to watch, Charlie
Kirk. I saw the bit, like, I opened my
Instagram and the video was likeright there.
And it played. And like I immediately said,

(01:10:08):
that guy's dead. I've seen that you're not
surviving that. And then I saw a report that he
was still alive. And then I was like, Oh, well,
maybe, maybe I maybe that video was AI or something.
But then he died and was real. So, you know, it's horrible,
horrible. And to be to see that or hear

(01:10:33):
about that and to say he got what he deserved, that's pure
evil, brother. Yeah, No, no kidding.
I want to ask you a question really quick about trauma
actually, because you like you've seen things on par,
probably worse. I don't know what they are, but.
Mostly dirty diapers. Yeah, mostly dirty diapers.

(01:10:56):
But like you've been, and correct me if I'm wrong, maybe
I'm assuming a little too much, but I would assume like based on
our conversation, like you have seen some pretty messed up
stuff, so yourself included, butalso the men who you were able
to, you were like leading or with, you know, comrade with and
working through that stuff. Would you agree or disagree with

(01:11:18):
this statement that it's easier to control a person who's
traumatized or maybe I should say influence?
Would you say that's false or true?
I don't think trauma is directlycorrelated.
No, I don't think that's. True.

(01:11:38):
Not directly let me I wouldn't say I want to like kind of lay
out what my brains been thinkinga little bit.
If you still have time, by the way.
OK, so trying to think of the best way to formulate this.
So whenever like that video cameout right, everyone sees it.
I had people sending it to me who I normally don't even get

(01:12:00):
stuff and like, and I was like, you should not watch that
because because it was like traumatizing to them.
But I'm, I feel like I have a hypothesis that I would love to
lay out, like in date detail, indepth.
That is the more you can collectively traumatize a group
of people and like almost bond them together through this

(01:12:21):
shared experience. You can then have them in such a
box that you can prod with certain pieces of information
and yeah, just pieces of information or like topics of
conversation to kind of push people in a direction.
And I, I feel like, like that's what honestly, it's been, it's
been happening because like, first of all, you have the

(01:12:42):
algorithm that is designed to keep you on these apps longer.
Yeah. Now that thing is like the most
shock bait. You know, you used to have to go
the 17 layers deep and then findthe dark web to see anything
like that. And now it's just very easily
out there and open. And it's concerning to me
because I think that the more people are like seeing these
things, you, you, one, you become desensitized to them.

(01:13:02):
But two, like, I think it's a form of control, like to, to
scare people into a certain direction of thinking.
I don't know, like I because, because I noticed like even with
me and the trauma that I experienced for my sisters, they
became very easily manipulated in certain ways because of like,
I guess the lack of a father waspart of it.

(01:13:23):
Walking up to our house and my dad was like, you know,
literally hanging dead inside. Like all of these things like
that kind of influence your way of thinking.
So anytime you ever come that near that type of a topic or
like that type of an experience,you react in a certain way.
And if you can, if you could know that someone's going to do
that, then you can present them with a piece of information or
something that is similar. And then therefore get them into

(01:13:46):
that certain state of mind wherethen they become easily
influenced, a little easier influenced.
I don't really have anything other than anecdote to point it
to this, but I feel like there'sgot to be something there
because humans are that way. I don't know.
Maybe I'm just like, crazy. What do you think?
Yeah. I think you're, you know, I
understand what you're trying tosay.
Here's my thing about manipulation.

(01:14:08):
To me, manipulation has always been about the control of
information. And I say control of
information. I don't want to say it's easy to
manipulate people who are uneducated, because it is.

(01:14:29):
But those people are uneducated because they haven't received
the proper information. So I'll just say manipulation is
about controlling information. And I think the more transparent
the world becomes, the harder it's going to become to
manipulate folks. Now, that said, I think there is

(01:14:52):
some truth to your trauma theory.
I think we have to, you know, wehave this prefrontal cortex in
our brain, right? And then we have this big giant
primordial, I don't know if I'm using that word, part of our

(01:15:13):
brain back, right? So keep my heart going, my
lungs, you know, big, big thingsback here, big rocks.
Things like our personality, ourfaith, articulating concepts.
That's all done up here. And when you traumatize

(01:15:34):
somebody, guess what goes away, right?
Yeah. So keeping people in a state of
trauma continuingly robs them oftheir articulate part of their
brain. Firefight.

(01:15:55):
They go and do two things. Yeah, it's going back to the
zebras, man. You know they're always running
from the lion. I love that story.
Yeah. And you know, it's the truth.
They're always running from something that they're scared
of. And I and I will say, if you
evaluate politics, there's a certain party, they use the word

(01:16:17):
I'm scared a lot. And another party doesn't use
I'm scared. And I think that that is a way
that that party that uses the word I'm scared manipulates
their voter base through fear, through fear.

(01:16:38):
Fear is powerful, extremely powerful.
But fear puts you in a state where you're not articulate,
you're not, you're not thinking rationally.
It's almost involuntary, You know, like when I was any trauma
I've been through initially, I think of like, the big things,

(01:16:59):
like my arms working. Yep.
My legs were OK. Yeah.
And then I get this, like, I hadit when I got hit by a car.
I was like, I like, was out for a minute.
And then I woke up and there waspeople around me and I didn't
know what was going on. And I'm like assessing, like, am
I alive? And then I, you know, I realized

(01:17:20):
I was hurt. I could move my legs.
I could move. I could move one arm.
The other one was gone. Like, I couldn't feel it at all,
but I realized, hey, I'm probably going to live through
this. And at that moment, I had like,
a moment of calm. And I started asking the
bystander who was there. He put a tourniquet on me.

(01:17:42):
I'm like, hey, what are you seeing?
Like, he's like, well, your arm's pretty bad.
I'm like, OK, I said it. He's like, other than that, you
look, everything looks normal. And I'm like, OK, because I had
blood in my eyes and glass. So, you know, I'm like, all

(01:18:02):
right, whatever. He's like, the ambulance is
coming. You're, you're they're going to.
And I'm just laying on the ground like thinking, well, I'm
not going to win today. And then and I hear this woman
in the background screaming bloody, like, I might like just
screaming, screaming. And I finally said to the guy,

(01:18:24):
I'm like, is that Lady OK? Did she get hit by a cartoon?
And he go, she goes, no, that's the lady who hit you.
And she was, I mean, I was in pain, but like, she seemed way
worse off than I was, you know? And I asked him, I'm like, is
she going to be all right? He's like, yeah, she's just

(01:18:45):
really upset. So.
So I think initially in that trauma, an initial response, you
lose your articulation, you loseyour prefrontal cortex, your
ability to think rationally. You're kind of thinking, all
right, am I going to get away from the lion?
You know, what do I got to do toget out of this immediate

(01:19:07):
danger? But once that kind of moment of
calm comes back and you get youryour frontal lobe again, I think
trauma makes you better, more resilient to minute manipulation
in some ways post trauma becauseyou, you kind of lose some of
your innocence too. You know you're like.

(01:19:30):
Yeah, that's super fascinating. I was just going to say because
you mentioned lion again and youknow, this concept of fear and
I'm just going to being remindedlike, Oh yeah, like literally in
the Bible, like the old, you know, you're talking about
Babylon. It was a city or an empire based
on fear. And their symbol like through
like that they had ever was a lion with wings, but a lion in

(01:19:54):
fact. Oh, that's super fascinating to
kind of bring this all around circle.
Yeah, man, it's, it's crazy. I just want to say one last
thing. The AI stuff, what I have
realized too, like just to hear me out for a second, because you
mentioned like, well, I don't know if it was AI real or not.
I had this epiphany the other day.
I was walking through my house and I was like I am.

(01:20:19):
We are now at a place where I could get a phone call could be
quote UN quote my wife she couldtell me XY and Z to do XY and Z.
I hang up. I don't know if that was
actually my wife. I see a video sends me a video
of my wife. I don't know if that was my
wife. Literally our entire world
reality has been based around now these screens, but pretty
soon we're at a place where it'scaught up with the current

(01:20:42):
generation where they are losingthe ability to discern what is
Ficum was real. Yeah.
If anything melts fabric, the fabric of society, brother,
that's got to be it. Like I if you can no longer
discern because they're talking about blockchain this and we're
going to encrypt that and do this and that and then quantum
computing steps in and breaks everything.
It's like, OK, well, can you garden?
I can farm. Like, can we?

(01:21:03):
Yeah, let's go, let's go do thisbecause, yeah, it's crazy.
Absolutely wild. Yeah, I heard a news story.
I think we're coming. We're coming back from the gym
today. They were talking about AI and
again, I don't think it's going to be a problem you.
Don't think so. A problem with what?
Like taking a job? Problem with I don't creating

(01:21:25):
hysteria? Like what?
In my experience there is a majority of people, they are
neither all the way on the rightor all the way on the left.
Like the, the, the fabric of America in the middle is is

(01:21:47):
where I like to focus right? Because there's always going to
be some whack job from the rightor left on TV saying this or
that. I'm going to scream my rights
into these microphone. Right.
And, you know, but then I think about I, I definitely know
people who didn't vote the way Ivoted, you know, and they're

(01:22:08):
pretty reasonable. And like I would say the large
majority of people just want to live their life, work at a job,
gain a decent living, have a safe neighborhood for their
children. They don't really care about

(01:22:28):
this shit honestly. Like I don't care who you pray
to, who you're sleeping with, what color you are, just be a
decent human being dude. Like, I really don't care, nor
should I. That's part of liberty.
People always talk about life, liberty, and the pursuit of

(01:22:49):
happiness. Liberty is also the liberty to
live your life in a way that youwant to live it, right, whether
I think it's wrong or not. Now, it gets a little more
nuanced when you talk about things like abortion, right?
And, you know, but everything else pretty much falls in that

(01:23:16):
general, hey, just don't hurt nobody, you know, stay away from
the kids, right? I don't care.
Just, you know, don't be pushingit down other people's throat.
And, you know, I think that's when things become a problem.
When religious folks want to make non religious folks listen
to religion, they don't like it.OK, well, of course they don't

(01:23:39):
like it. And it's been, you know, gay and
lesbian folks want to make non gay and lesbian folks do things
that are gay and lesbian like we're not.
I'm not gay. OK, I great you guys go have
fun, live your life. I don't care, you know, and it's
that desire to of acceptance of each other, I think is where you

(01:24:05):
get conflict. Look, I'm not changing.
I'm 50. I'm the most 50 year old thing
you can say. I, I, I couldn't, I probably
couldn't change the way I think if I wanted to because it
wouldn't be true to my own heart.
And you got to be true to your own heart.
And not everybody has the same heart, because that's life.

(01:24:26):
Life. Experience.
I don't think AI is going to be a problem.
I really don't. I think it's just like, you
know, it's just like cell phonesand the Internet.
They had all these. Y2K was going to be the end of
the world. You're probably too young to
remember. That I, I was 8.

(01:24:47):
I remember everyone I was like but that at 8 years old I was
like, what do you mean the the clocks like I I knew enough to
be like that. That makes no sense.
Like what would actually happen?There's no process or program in
place where this computer is going to do something when it
goes over to 2000. Like where?
Are you? Yeah, I was actually a bit

(01:25:07):
disappointed. I was hoping I was wrong.
I think AI will get to, and you know, it's kind of a missed
number. I work in the industry.
There's no such thing as AI. It's machine learning, OK?
It's a machine that has a certain amount of intelligence.
Yeah. It, it's not like reading, it's

(01:25:29):
not like studying. It's not like making it.
It's got whatever you put into it, right?
It has algorithms, it can do searches, it can access
different databases, right. But there's, it's not sitting
there going, you know, I think Bill, I think Bill's wrong on
that. Like, you know, like it doesn't
have. Consciousness.

(01:25:51):
Consciousness, right? It says and.
Then until that happens, I thinkwe're safe because you're one on
off switch away from getting ridof it.
Like you know what I mean like the thing doesn't run on oxygen.
It runs on electricity that has to be generated a lot of

(01:26:12):
electricity really like you could literally shut off half
their brain getting rid of some of the data centers.
So, you know, I, I think AI is agood tool to make life easier.
I don't think, I don't think anyrational person will see an AI
video of their wife cheating on them and go, I'm going to base

(01:26:37):
the rest of my life on this one video that I don't know where
it's from. And, you know, make decisions
solely on that. Like, I think they might, like,
approach their wife and be like,hey, have you seen this?
And she'd be like, no, that's not me.
But what about this? What about this, Mark?
You get a video of, of Nettie, She's like, hey, I'll be home or

(01:27:03):
in 10 minutes, I'm just going togo stop and do this.
Whatever, whatever. You know, it's just like pretty
nonchalant. She sends a or a voice message
or whatever, she goes to that place.
Somebody's seen that fake video to distract you.
She actually got kidnapped. She's in a gone to another
place. Like you can use it cleverly to
do to trick people I think to make smaller decisions that will

(01:27:24):
lead to bigger outcomes maybe. Yeah, Nettie's at five O 8 War
Admiral Court, is she? No.
I know where she is all the time.
I have my bicycle on there too. OK, nice.
Yeah, I'm just poking. You and I mean, that's the
that's the conundrum of of any technology.

(01:27:47):
Yeah, how can he use for good orfor I'll?
Right. There's always going to be
nefarious actors using things tobenefit them or to misrepresent
things, right? e-mail How many emails you get a
day from Abdul saying if you just give him $1000, he can
access his inheritance of $50,000 and he will give you

(01:28:07):
10%. Like, you know what I mean?
Like, sorry, I don't mean to be offensive to anybody named
Abdul, but generally they have like African.
Muslim, that's what it is. I got one of those the other
day. Someone.
Calling me like I'm an EthiopianPrince and I have $60 million.
But I need. $1000 right now. Like I get emails like that all

(01:28:29):
the time. And then, you know, people who
have a vested interest in the technology, sticking with the
e-mail example, right, they develop things to filter that
out. Like I, those emails that I get
like that, they go to my trash bin automatically.
Or if I get one in my inbox, I click the three little dots and

(01:28:52):
say this is junk. And now anything that comes from
that goes exactly to my jump box.
I think AI will be exactly the same that you know, People who
are using it for nefarious reasons will devalue AI to the
point where people won't use it.So the people who have a vested
interest in AI being a useful tool will put in safeguards to

(01:29:16):
get rid of the nefarious actors.I agree to a point.
I will have to return back on this conversation in five years
because I think that it's, yeah,we'll see what happens.
Everyone's obsessed with making some.
It's, I say everyone, those who stand at the helm of this ship
and are buying them up the land and putting in hundreds of

(01:29:40):
thousands of chips and then literally starting up nuclear
power plants to to supply these pet with power to compute.
I find that very interesting that there is literal billions
being put into this when every time I use this system, even
though I pay, if I paid the highest tier of these services,
it doesn't even come remotely close to the amount of power

(01:30:02):
that it's drawing. So the costs are way.
It's totally subsidized right now there.
To me, it feels like that they're on a path to try to do
something greater. And they've said some of them,
it's like, well, we want to create this AGI, which is
essentially God. They're trying so hard to figure
out what is consciousness. Can we put it into a machine?
So there's this book called A Trip into the Supernatural by

(01:30:25):
Robert Murnau. Have you ever heard of this
book? No.
Fascinating book if anybody wants to go read it.
I'm not saying that I think it'sright or, excuse me, true or
false, but he's a man who claimsto be, this is written back I
think in the 70s. He is a man who claimed to be a
part of church Satan. OK, Long story short, he comes
to these place at this house andhe is a lawyer.
And they walk down into the basement and this guy's like,

(01:30:47):
Oh, yeah, this is like where thespirits, I think is what they
say, write these appellate briefs for cases.
So they opened the door and he looks inside and on a bunch of
desks, there's like 12 differenttypewriters going and writing
appellate briefs for all of these guys.
And he's like, yeah, we don't really lose cases, Closes the
door and goes on. So, you know, that to me was
like, oh, that seems like very similar to what Chachi BT can do

(01:31:09):
now, if with my spiritual belief, seeing some very real
things that we can talk about later and knowing what I read in
the Bible about like the principalities and powers are
very real. If the technology gets to a
place where, you know, we all just say like, yeah, we don't
really know how it works. It is what it is.
If you marry the thinking, the machine learning with a

(01:31:33):
nefarious spiritual force that can also implement and start to,
you know, weasel its way in there and you can no longer
distinguish between the two, that's when I think it becomes a
problem. Because at that point we're kind
of, yeah, I know you don't, you may not agree, but like that's
I, I, I just see one perspective, 1 angle of this of
how it could be kind of crazy. So it sounds wild to say such a
thing, but I think that there may be something to it.

(01:31:55):
So who knows? Could be.
I'm going to say one word to you, Seth.
Yes. Faith.
Faith. That's it.
Faith in. Faith.
Yeah. In In the World.
You think I should have faith inthe world?
Yeah. I don't think I should.

(01:32:17):
I think you should all. Right now, that's not to say
that I don't hope for the best in people and want to see the
best in people, but the world, if we're talking about just the
the the collective, everything of people, like, I don't know if
that I've always struggled with that because like I there's good

(01:32:39):
and evil in all of us, but in left unchecked like that, it
will always grow into the grossest thing possible.
I think without like a desire for some good or as an influence
of good. I don't know.
I haven't figured it all out yet.
I don't think fiber will. I think a large majority of the
world experiences the world through social media, through

(01:33:05):
mainstream media, through the things like YouTube.
I think the people in this worldthat actually go to other
countries and talk to people from different cultures, I think
they are on a different level because they're like, these

(01:33:28):
people are just like us. They just have a different word
for it. Like it's literally that's the
way it is. Like there's common out there's.
So I'd say in my based on the places I've been in the world
and I've been in a lot of places, I would say 70 to 80%

(01:33:50):
of. People are good people.
Of cultures are common, like they just want to be left alone.
They just want to like take their kids for ice cream or
whatever. And it's these things that are

(01:34:11):
remarkable and I'm not using that word in a positive way.
They're remarkable because they're unique or different.
Those are those are the things that get clicks and likes and
views and that's how we form. I have 5 brothers and three
sisters and two of my brothers. I'm going to sound like an ass,

(01:34:32):
but I don't understand how they're genetically connected to
me. Never been anywhere.
They lived in the same small town their whole life.
They're in their 60s now. And you talk to them like, I'll
go home and they'll be like, oh,yeah, you know, What about that?
The gays in California, you know?

(01:34:54):
And you're like, like, dude, I've been to Cal.
I lived there for seven years. Yeah.
And I've been educated like, youknow, and like and like I'll
propose something contrary to their what they saw on a movie,
right. Or the news.
Yeah. You don't know what you're

(01:35:16):
talking about. Like.
OK. Yeah.
Like, and then they'll talk like, oh, Koreans this.
And I'm like, dude, one of my buddies, I was in the
neighborhood. It's Korean guy, Love him.
His parents are awesome. They like me more than they like
him. Like, they're amazing people.
I don't know. I got to watch out for that.
Like just shut up you ignorant. Yeah, that's true.

(01:35:39):
And people used to do that aboutthe Chinese a lot, because I
went to China for five times. And like, by and large, there's
a lot of stuff obviously that gets pushed out that I don't
agree with, but the nicest, kindest people I've literally
ever met in my life. You mean like you?
Greatest. Yeah, like, like a human.
Here. So weird how they're just like
you. Yeah, isn't that crazy human?
They look a little different. That's about.
It you know you're you know you're helping me make the

(01:36:00):
point, right? No, Yeah, I like your point.
Like I think it's good. I think for a long time growing
up, I did believe like in the back, right, the way that I grew
up in the religious context thatI did, I there is this kind of
unspoken thing that well, it's like anybody outside these
walls, like, well, they're of the world.
So then you're like, OK, what does that mean?
Well, we're good, they're bad. OK, well then that means that

(01:36:21):
whoever's going to quote UN quote, go to heaven when Jesus
comes back, Well, we're the minority.
So the vast majority of people. And it's like, no, I don't
actually think that's true. And there's biblical stories
that kind of point that out whenwho was it?
Who is crying out to God, like Ithink it was Elijah or live
show. He's like, there's no one here
who's good and God's like, hey, I got 7000 over here.
I got 7000 over here. So I think you are right.

(01:36:42):
Like the majority of people are good.
But I, I've also, I guess the reason, the only reason I kind
of disagree with that last that still is that I've seen so many
people, people walk away from their relationship with God.
And their main excuse was, well,when I was in the church, such
and such pastor did this, molested that person did that.

(01:37:03):
And I'm like, yes, those things are bad.
But if we ever allow people to become our standard for right
and wrong rather than just like an example of what right and
wrong can be and look like, thenlike we're misaligned because
all of us are going to fall. My, I'm going to fall as a
father to my children. And if they lose faith in me and
then they can't figure out how to point themselves.

(01:37:24):
That's why I guess where like myfaith, really, I think I only
want faith in what I know is 100% unequivocally true, and
that the only thing that exists out there I think is like, God,
love. I don't know.
Yeah. Yeah, I don't subscribe to any
organization that places that tells you that any person is

(01:37:45):
closer to God than you are. And you know, you can draw all
your conclusions from that, but I don't give a shit how many.
I don't care what you've done inyour life.
You're not any closer to God than I am.
I don't care if your name startswith P and ends in OPE.
You're not closer to God than I am.

(01:38:05):
You got a nice robe and it's pretty cool scepter there, but
you're not. Priests are not closer to God.
Pastors are not closer to God. And anybody tells you that
you're not as close to God as every other person on this
planet has some type of ulteriormotive to manipulate you into

(01:38:29):
thinking you're inferior in someway and that you should listen
to them. I I honestly believe that any
pastor that tells you he's closer to God than you are, he's
not passing, He's not preaching the gospel.
Yeah, yeah. I don't think you should say
that, but there is something to be said, said about maybe like

(01:38:51):
like who was it? That was it Elijah.
I always get the mixed up Elijahthat you know, it says in the
Bible like he was so close to God, basically like he walked up
into heaven. God came down in the chariot and
was like, well, you're ready. You're one of the very few early
grab you and take it to heaven. Did you ever read that story?
Yeah, I don't remember that specifically, but.
Well, anyway, yeah, I, I think I, I align with you like you

(01:39:13):
don't. That's not what it's about for
sure. Humans are human man, and they
can be really good and beautiful, but then also we can
manipulate and turn each other into a bunch of.
We're sinners. We are sinners, bro, 100% yeah.
And yeah, that's. I still struggle with it today.
Yeah. I do things and I'm like, this
is not right. Yeah.

(01:39:33):
And I do it. And I'm like, sorry buddy, I
know you saw that. Yeah, no, 100%.
Not my best moment, right? But that's how it is, you know,
and you don't need to tell anybody that's between you and
God. And you know, you repent in your
own way. Some people like to donate money

(01:39:55):
and or be a pastor or, you know,volunteer.
And you know, I believe in that.I think you can overcome things
that are internal by doing things externally.
It's like, I like, I like helping people.
Like I'm just a natural little helper.
So, you know, I'll go out and I'll help someone.

(01:40:17):
And sometimes it's not someone that probably deserves to be
helped. Like Lynette will point that out
and like, you know, they're taking advantage of you, right?
I'm like, Nah, they're not taking advantage of me.
I'm doing it because I want to do it.
And the joy of it. And, and it makes me feel good
and I feel God in me when I do it.

(01:40:39):
Like I feel godly. And you know, sure, they're
getting a free whatever. I don't give a shit.
I'll text you my address, by theway.
Just kidding. Look cool, man.
Well, Mark, thank you so much for allowing me to soundboard

(01:41:00):
and kind of go back and forth. I love doing these podcasts,
especially the round two and round 3 ones because you get the
little more rapport with someoneand you can go back and forth
and it's super fun and and very enlightening and brings me a lot
of joy. So thank you so much.
I just felt like I was talking to.
It's weird. Like, I feel like we're just
having a conversation, and then you see the actual podcast and

(01:41:21):
you're like, Oh my God, I said that.
Yeah. That's the old bait and switch.
Yeah, but you know, I am who I am and I say stupid things just
like everybody else. I don't mean any harm by any of
it. And.
Same, you know. I really enjoy talking to you as
well and I think you're doing a good thing so.
Thanks brother. I appreciate it, appreciate you.

(01:41:43):
Yeah, man, same. Thank you so much to Mark for
jumping on again, always enjoy, enjoy these round two interviews
for the depth of conversation, the rapport that you're able to
build, you know, over 1 episode and going into a second one is
really cool and I really appreciate it.
Not saying that the first ones aren't amazing because they are,
but with like any friendship, new friends are amazing, but old

(01:42:04):
friends, ones that you can cultivate and make over time,
that's really special to me. So yeah, thanks for letting me
be myself on this podcast. Really appreciate you guys
making it a place where I can come and share what I'm
thinking, feeling in an open forum.
So yeah, I appreciate you guys. Thank you for listening and
we'll catch you in the next one.See you later.

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#192 - Round 2 - Mark Evans - Faith, Fear, and Finding Calm in the Chaos

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#192 - Round 2 - Mark Evans - Faith, Fear, and Finding Calm in the Chaos