#196 - Ryan Bolton, USAT Director of High Performance - Physiology, Head & Heart: Coaching High-Performance Athletes With Purpose  - Stupid Questions with Seth Hill

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Stupid Questions podcast.
So guys, today we're going to betalking with Ryan Bolton.
He is the founder and head coachat Bolton Endurance Sports
Training, also known as BEST, and he is also the USA Triathlon
Director of High Performance. So he works with athletes such
as Morgan Pearson, who you may not heard of in the past, John
Reed and a number of others. And today's conversation is just

(00:20):
a really great one. We talked about the background
of Ryan obviously a bit diving into what he's doing today and
some philosophy around coaching,around life.
Really good conversation. Really appreciated the candor
and the pacing of the conversation as I asked
questions. Ryan was really good about just
expounding further on things that he's thinking.
And so he made my job very easy today.

(00:42):
If you want to check out any of the stuff that Ryan has going
on, check out the show notes below.
And also if you would like to jump in and help plan out
episode 200, check out the show notes for that.
And yeah, thank you so much for being here.
If you are watching or listeningon India, the podcast platforms
such as YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcast, like comment,
subscribe, leave a review, all of those things continue to help

(01:04):
grow this podcast. And I appreciate you being here
and for listening and for doing those things.
So thank you so much. And without further ado when
you're at Issue 2, Ryan Bolton. Where are you at right now?
Tucson, AZ. Which is, yeah, it's, it's not
where I normally am right now, but but yeah, I was taking care

(01:25):
of a few things down here because this is actually where
we do with like John and stuff, where we do our like winter
slash spring training camp. So, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, right on. You're usually up in New Mexico,
right? Yeah, Yeah.
In our basin, I mean, we can getabout that.
We can get up all into that maybe as we're talking a little
bit, but but yeah, we we're kindof all over the place.

(01:48):
So, yeah, yeah. Awesome, man.
Well, Ryan, thank you so much, Coach.
Do most people call you Coach orRyan?
That's a good question. I think it depends on the
person, but I would say Ryan more than Coach.
Yeah. What do you do?
You do you? Is that more normal for you?
Like, do you like answering to coach?
Does it feel awkward here? I guess you're used to it now.

(02:09):
Yeah, I think it's probably likethe setting, like the
environment, like if we're, you know, if we're like in a
session, almost like if somebodysays coach, it seems to make
more sense. Whereas like if we're in more of
a, you know, like personal environment, yeah, it's they
call me. Yeah, my name.
Yeah, yeah, sounds good. Cool, man.
Well, thank you so much for coming on today, for taking the
time. I know you're a busy guy.

(02:29):
It seems like this season is, I guess, coming down to a little
bit more or less of a a roar. Totally.
Yeah, it is. It's definitely, in fact, like
this next weekend. This upcoming weekend is the
last like kind of big bigger races of the year.
And then it does really start tosettle down a lot.
And then we go into offseason like initiatives, which it's

(02:51):
more of a it's, it's a just a completely different phase.
It's a lot more like planning and yeah, planning 2026 and
beyond stuff. So yeah, do.
You do you travel more than six months out of the year?
Like how often do you travel? Very much, yeah.
Like, you know, it's interesting.
I, I, I don't know where I sleepthe most.

(03:15):
I've thought it might be interesting for me to like keep
a log of where I sleep every night of the year and then be
like, OK, what place did I actually spend the most nights?
And I, I don't know what that answer would be, but we do, I
mean, we're kind of constantly traveling really.
I mean, it depends on what you call traveling because we're in
our training camps. So like, you know, from January,
usually into May, we're like in Tucson, AZ, then like May to mid

(03:39):
to late summer, we're often in Europe.
And then from, you know, late summer, you know, through the
fall where it like at altitude in New Mexico.
And then in the offseason, whichis now basically, you know,
where everyone's in their own respective places or, or
whatever. So but but yeah, but every,

(04:00):
every season looks slightly different too.
But we do. I mean, it's, it's kind of like
a constant roadshow. Yeah, yeah.
No kidding. Do you have family?
I do, I have a significant otherwho has three kids and so that
is challenging as well. And, but but it, it's like her
job and her schedule with the kids that allows us to be

(04:22):
together quite a bit. And and we always try to go.
So it's not much longer than twoweeks where without like being
together in some capacity. It.
Doesn't always work that way, but but it's kind of a good like
guidance and rule of thumb to try to keep it that way.
Yeah, Yeah. I would imagine with your line
of work it has to be kind of like that.

(04:44):
Yeah, I know for sure, yeah, forsure.
But it works out really well in some ways too, because like you
know, like I said, when we're inEurope, I mean it's an
opportunity for her to come to Europe or even her kids to come
to Europe and like hang out withus and stuff.
And so that that's kind of like fun.
I mean, I think it's unique, unique experience for her, for
them, etcetera. So, but yeah, we kind of get to
go back and forth a bit. Yeah.

(05:06):
So I know you grew up, or at least you were born in South
Dakota. At what point in your life did
you start to, like, expand beyond that horizon of where you
kind of grew up, I guess? What was it like growing up
there too? That's a good question.
Yeah. I was born in South Dakota, just
east of the Wyoming border. And when I was 2, I actually

(05:26):
moved to Wyoming. And so I grew up in Wyoming,
northeast Wyoming, which I always tell people is not the
romantic part of Wyoming. And it's not like, you know,
people watch Yellowstone now. And, and I think a lot of people
know about Jackson, Wyoming. And it's the kind of an opposite
side of the state. It's it's I would say more
rugged, like more beautiful. It's just sparse.

(05:47):
It's very rural. But you know, for me, it's kind
of like being a kid is like you don't like where I grew up was,
I mean, that was my reality. You know, I, I didn't realize,
you know, kind of like how maybeisolated and or small towny it
was, but I did because of athletics.
And I mean, I think that's kind of like what often happens is I

(06:08):
would say I had an opportunity to travel way more than a lot of
people do, even at a relatively young age, you know, because
like even nationally, like around the country, just with
competitions and everything, which was awesome.
So, you know, we, you know, whatever, East Coast and
California and you know, basically all around the
country, international travel didn't start for me until I
actually started like competing in triathlon more.

(06:30):
And that was like cuz championship races and stuff
started to be, you know, in Europe, England, you know,
Southern hemisphere, stuff like that.
So that's like, I would say whenmy world started getting a lot
bigger. How would your How would your
parents have described you as a child, you think?

(06:51):
High energy, yeah. Inquisitive.
I think maybe they're they're they're I think, but I talk
about like the progression of meas like a kid.
I think that maybe when I became, when I got to be about
20 or 21, they were, I think that was the point where they're
like, thank God he's not in jailand I think he's not going.

(07:14):
To be. Yeah, yeah.
And, and I used my, I, I used myenergy like for good as opposed
to bad. I think you could say, yeah.
But I think that's the beauty oflike endurance sports.
And I mean, I mean, it really, you look at most endurance
athletes and I think their parents would probably say, say
the same thing as that, You know, they're incredibly high
energy individuals. I, I mean, I think that's why I,

(07:36):
I got into the first sport that I did, like organized sport that
I did was swimming. And my mom said it was because
my sister was a swimmer who's three years older than me.
She's like 8, I was 5. And she was like, and you were
on the deck of the swimming pool, like running around,
getting in trouble. And I was like, well, why do I
have him on the deck of the swimpool?
Why don't I just throw him in the practice with his sister?

(07:56):
And so, yeah, so she did that. And she's like, then you still
had energy. So then we got you into running
stuff. And.
Yeah. And it kind of spiraled from
there. Yeah, that's awesome.
So growing up, it was just you and your sister.
Yeah, Yep, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Three years, three years older. She's three years older than
you. Yep, she is and she was, you
know, it's funny because like atthat age, you know, I think an

(08:17):
older sibling, they're they're always like, I, I wouldn't would
certainly have not admitted it then and like in high school,
But I think like she was like, you know, I was looking up to
her and and I mean, that's why Igot into sports.
And kind of funny thing is that she ended up not being like a
big athlete or anything, but butit's, it's really what got me

(08:38):
into it. It also got me into Girl Scouts.
I was part of her Girl Scout troop and scouts, which there's
bonuses of that as well, I guess.
Yeah, yeah. That's.
So funny, you know, it's interesting the way you talked
about looking up to your your sister.
So I have two younger sisters, one's 3 1/2, almost four years

(08:59):
younger, and the other's 12 years younger.
But it's interesting, like, because I recognize they looked
up to me. But then as we've gotten older,
like there's been times that I've actually been able to like,
look up to my younger sisters. So it's like as we get older and
mature, we can kind of turn the tides a little bit.
No, for sure, for sure. Well, I think there's probably
something to be learned from allof them, right?
And the different personalities and I'm sure that, and it's fun,

(09:22):
you know, with my partner now, like, I mean, she has three kids
and it's so it's fascinating. We always joke.
I'm like, there's no way all three of them came from the same
mother. And she was like, no, I was
there. I'm pretty sure they all came
from the same mom. But but I mean that the
difference is in them. But I mean, even like me as an
adult, what you can learn from their three different
personalities, regardless of where they are in their birth

(09:43):
order, is pretty interesting. Yeah, that is fascinating.
So what does your sister do now after mind me asking?
She lives in Denver, Co, and she's in real estate.
Yeah. She was a teacher, but like a
lot of teachers, elementary school, I think she really,
really got burned out. I mean, she's also 55 years old,
so, you know, I mean, she taughtfor many, many years.

(10:04):
But yeah, that now she's in realestate, which I think is equally
as stressful, just with lip a different type of stress.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that makes you 52. Yes, exactly.
Yeah, it's a great age. I like it when I do these
interviews. It's always interesting to me
the questions I ask. Some of them I try to recycle
because I think it's fascinatingto hear the different

(10:25):
perspectives and that people have an age and experience.
So this question I'm really excited to ask you, but it's
according to you, who is Ryan? Oh man, you know, it's
interesting because you get, I think there's the identity that

(10:46):
other people see you as or otherpeople define you as.
And I think in that regard, likeI'm an athlete, like as an
example, an athlete and now a coach is I remember when I quit
racing professionally because, you know, I raced professional
triathlon for many years. Like there were some people in
my life who had a hard time withthat transition because of what

(11:09):
they defined me as, which I thought was interesting.
You know, I was great. I was great with the transition.
I was great with, you know, moving forward.
But they actually struggled withit because they were like, well,
you're an athlete. You know, how do I identify with
you if you're not an athlete Andyou know, which was, it was
really kind of a strange transition and especially people
that are close to you. But I really personally like
professionally, I would say I, Imean, I really do identify as a

(11:32):
coach. It's funny because like, in that
regard, I would say early on in coaching, I was The Olympian
that coached. And I would say as I've coached
longer, I'm now the coach that was an Olympian, if that makes
sense. And, and I'm kind of an odd
thing to say, but I'm more proudof my accomplishments as a coach

(11:53):
than I was as an athlete. And I think that not necessarily
due to like the like the successof that stuff, but more just
because of like the, the collaborative collective effort
that it takes to to coach and get good results as a coach.
And, and so, yeah, I think I identify more like

(12:13):
professionally that way. I, I think it's funny because I
have a hard time understand. Well, not understanding.
I think we all do like how people ultimately interpret you,
like as a person and you know, your intensity or your, you
know, how laid back you are and stuff like that.
And people sometimes they'll tell me, oh, you know, you're,
you know, as a coach, like I'm pretty intense.
I'm pretty not. I don't know if I'd call it

(12:36):
demanding, but you know, I, I guess I have high expectations.
I always tell athletes like I have, you know, I was like, if
I'm working with you, I'm I'm, I'm very, very invested in you.
But I also expect, you know, kind of that reciprocity back
where you're invested, you know,in me and, and the program as
well, because I think that's how, you know, you get the best

(12:56):
results out of each other ultimately.
And but, but, yeah, but I guess as far as like, who am I like in
that regard? Guard, I think, you know, like I
said, public perception, people often see you, you know, they
it's easy to categorize you, youknow, like son, I'm the coach.
But I would say like you have somany different, like so, so many

(13:20):
things outside of sport too, youknow, that I'm interested in
just, and, and a lot of it is like sport, you know, relevant
and oriented and everything. But it is like multifaceted, I
guess. Yeah.
Yeah, that's pretty intriguing because I would say that that's
probably 90% or more not the case in terms of like the
identity crisis that sounds likethat.

(13:42):
I've just from conversations I've had with people, even if
they got a podium or gold medal,you know, after a post Olympics
and they're like trying to figure out what's next.
There's like this identity of like, wait, that that was my
value. I've kind of valued myself on
time. Yeah, Well, the other thing that
I see that happens with that, and I mean, because I've coached
athletes like through their careers and into retirement and

(14:03):
and it's a very tough transitionbecause a that is such a big
piece of your identity. But what I say with sport 2 is
like, in all, I mean, just usingtriathlon as an example is like
when you're, you know, you're, I'm, you wake up every day and
there's an incredibly clear highpurpose, high passion objective.

(14:23):
You know, it's like, I'm, I'm training for the Olympics.
I'm going to win the Olympic gold medal or, you know, I'm
training to win the Kona Iron Man or, you know, something like
that. And then and so not only does
your identity change, but when you wake up in the morning,
like, you know, what's your goal?
I meant, you know, my goal is totake care of my kids and you
know, maybe you get and go to work it.
It's not that, you know, that really giant, like incredibly

(14:47):
crystal clear, like super passionate objective.
And I think people have a hard time like with that transition
because of that. You know, I mean, it's hard to
find something in life that's like, as as hyper focus, say is
like, like set like winning a gold medal, you know, and I, and
I think that's what makes that transition really hard for
people. And, but, but, but I think

(15:08):
other, and that's where in some ways I feel like I got lucky
because, you know, when I quit racing, I went immediately into
Graduate School, which I think kind of bought me two years of
figuring that stuff out a littlebit.
Processing time. Yeah, I know.
Which was, and that's what it, it kind of functioned as.
But, you know, almost immediately, you know, post
athletic retirement, I did get into coaching and I feel like I

(15:32):
was lucky to get into it becauseI found something that was
equally, if not more like stimulating for me, you know,
and, and equally as passion driven as actually being an
athlete and shooting for those goals.
So I mean, it's it and I guess it is similar goals, but it's

(15:53):
with other people. So, you know, as opposed to
self, which I think that's what makes it way more rewarding, you
know, is as an athlete, your life is incredibly selfish and
self-centered. I mean, the world is about you.
You're constantly taking care ofyourself.
You're constantly thinking aboutwhat's best for you, you know,
all that type stuff. I mean, I remember, you know,
everyone around you is making compromises for you because of

(16:15):
your training, because of whatever, you know, oh, we can't
do Christmas, you know, at this whatever because, you know, Ryan
has to train her, you know, the athlete.
Whereas, you know, I think that's why it's fun being a
coach because you get to kind ofreally like give back and be
more of a part of a collective process than than, you know,
just this individual self-centered thing.
Yeah. So based on my reading and

(16:38):
listening a little bit, just trying to understand some of
your back story, it sounds like Joe Freel was a bit of a guiding
force getting into the coaching side of the world during your, I
guess, graduate studies. Yeah, he was.
Yeah. Yeah, he was.
I mean, because he was, you know, I feel like I was really
lucky in that way too. Is that like, I, I mean, even,

(17:00):
even when I was in college and even, I mean in high school and
stuff, I had amazing mentors, amazing coaches.
And I mean, part of that is justluck.
I mean, just being in the right place at the right time.
But I think connecting with Joe,which was really, I mean, it's
in the first year of my triathlon racing, I connected
with him and, and I remain with like close with him to this day.

(17:21):
And, and he, he really was valuable.
But when I did quit racing and Iwe never had a conversation when
I was racing of hey, someday, you know, would you consider
coaching? I know I, I don't think we ever
had that conversation. But when I quit racing and
Joe's, you know, Joe's not like an overstated guy.
Like he's pretty, you know, he'sa pretty, like I said, he's

(17:45):
almost like understated. He's he's very cerebral and
like, so I don't, you know, I don't know if we ever sat down
and he was like, OK, here's the deal.
You're, you know, I think you should be a coach.
I think he probably almost more like passively was like, hey,
you know, have you ever thought about this?
You know, maybe you'd be good atthis or you know that type.
Of planting the seeds. Yeah.

(18:05):
And then, you know, whatever, I woke up 20 years later and I'm
like, woof, yeah, I'm doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So. Yeah.
But but he was, I mean, he was influential in that way.
And you know, I worked with him and his coaching group for many,
many years. And then he, he's like he, he
definitely retired from direct coaching and everything.
He still writes a lot. He still blogs a lot.

(18:25):
He's still like heavily involved.
I mean, that's one great thing about Joe is he's like, he's
like a life learner. And he just keeps on, in fact,
like we have an annual coaching meeting every year and I have
Joe come on every year and just,and he's like, what do you want
me to talk about? And I'm like, what?
Like your, your latest greatest.And he always comes with really
interesting stuff. It's awesome.

(18:46):
So you obviously see the the value like in mentorship, like
you sayings, maybe even the moreof the cerebral passive guiding
methodologies. I'm curious with, like, the
position you find yourself in, not just with USA Triathlon, but
the variety of coaching. And then obviously the authority
that you hold in a room with, you know, people who may not

(19:07):
know you super well, like, oh, he's an Olympian.
Like there's a level of authority, I think that comes
with that. So how has that changed the way
that you think about your interactions with people that
you're able to influence? Yeah.
You know, I think like with coaching and just like, you
know, the athletes that I directly work with, it's just a
part of the process. It's just a big part of the
process. You know, I mean, I always say

(19:28):
this like coaches love to sit down on podcasts and talk about
science and testing and you know, VO2 Max's and lactate
thresholds and all that stuff. And I always say about coaching,
like that's almost a front for not being a good coach because
that's the easy stuff. I mean, you can, you can read
books, you can learn that stuff.Like, I mean, it's, it's readily

(19:50):
available. I would say the hard part of
being a coach is that ultimatelythat connection like with
athletes and that that that being a guide for an athlete.
And I think the challenge of it is a coach is that everyone's
different. You know what I mean?
I mean, I work with, you know, probably like 12 professional,

(20:11):
you know, triathletes right now and the 12, they're all
incredibly different people. And they all, I would say the
one thing they have in common isthat they're incredibly
passionate about sport and they're also incredibly like
gifted athletes, you know what Imean?
They're talented. Gifted athletes, I would say,
but but aside from that, you know, they're, they're

(20:32):
incredibly different people and for me to learn that and then
help guide them because it is. And it's funny because as I get
older and as I've been coaching more, I, you definitely start
seeing, or I don't know if I start seeing it more, but I, I
think I start realizing more andworking more that my job as a

(20:52):
coaches like also just beyond, you know, getting them ready for
an event, it's like, also just kind of like helping them
because I mean, you know, I'm working with athletes who are,
you know, 1920212223 and they're, it's hard for me to
remember sometimes that they're so young And so like, kind of,
you know, like not mature and inlife and everything.
And. Impressionable too, yeah.

(21:13):
Yeah, I know, totally. And so like really like having
those conversations with them and just kind of helping them
become better people. And that better people doesn't
meet, you know, like sounds pretty lofty and most arrogant,
but just like, you know, helpingthem understand the way that the
world works and how they can function better in the world
because ultimately like that helps them be better athletes as
well. And and and and kind of the same

(21:36):
thing as I think at this point my career, I can reflect on
those people who were that person in my life that I didn't
realize. Same thing like said kind of
back, you know, full circle to the Joe Freel thing is like how
he was ultimately probably like passively coaching me in a lot
of ways and I didn't even. Yeah, yeah.

(21:57):
So with the different people that you do work with, like you
said that it's it's a selfish sport.
There is a big focus on this onegoal.
Identity doesn't come become wrapped in that.
But it seems like you had like this very healthy mindset of
being able to disassociate your value from like what it is
you're doing to like in realizing you could apply it to
something different. Obviously, coaching was kind of

(22:19):
in the first seat for your athletes and the people that you
work with. If do you, especially in the
younger ones, do you ever noticelike an over obsession with like
this is my identity? And then do you ever try to do
anything in your coaching style to, I don't know, suggest to
them like, hey, you are valuablebeyond this, like so that they
don't have that crisis when thatend of the games comes or

(22:40):
whenever that trip championship is whatever?
Well, for sure. And I guess to start, I would
say I, I definitely personally did not have that balance like
my whole at all, you know what Imean?
Like I, I, I, I think I started like as a very much like a kind
of a typical athlete like that was like obsessed with
perfection. I was not balanced.

(23:00):
I was, I was, you know, all about like my training and, you
know, kind of numbers. Yeah, exactly.
And, and just yeah. And yeah.
And you know, and pushing and achieving and regardless of what
got in the way, you know, kind of like just, you know, pushing
that aside or whatever. But but I think as an athlete,
like I grew that way. And then, you know, like clearly
as a coach, like a ton of growthin that regard.

(23:22):
But I do with the athletes. It is something because I think
that in this, I mean, it's a really simple talking point with
an athlete, but I think that thebest athletes in the world are
actually very well balanced people as well in general.
You know what I mean? It's it's not sustainable as an
athlete. And you can also only perform at
a certain level, you know, if you're not like well balanced.

(23:45):
And, and some some like I could see an athlete saying, well,
that person's a really good athlete and they're not well
balanced. And I'd be like, they are a
really good athlete, but they'renot a great athlete and they're
far from being a great person. Yeah.
So this is an interesting thing that like Joe Freel actually
told me a story and I remember it's kind of a long story.
I'll try to summarize it really quickly.

(24:05):
Take your time. Yeah, he said he was like, and,
and this was a powerful moment and I, I don't even know if he
remembers telling me the story, but he, he was like, I think he
just got back from some conference or he'd Benedict.
And a guy was speaking who did live the 100 mile running race.
And, and he said the guy standing on the podium and he's
talking about he's like, you know, he basically the summary

(24:27):
of the speech was all the thingsthat he sacrificed.
And he was like, I lost my job, I lost my wife, I lost my
family. And then he's then the get then
the dude at the end of the speech held up and then he says,
but and he held up the belt buckle.
You know how you get a belt buckle for LED bill?
And he says, but it was all worth it.
And he was like, and he's like, I think the guy, I thought he
was like being all, you know, you know, you know, macho and,

(24:49):
and and cool and thought everyone was going to be like,
yeah. And he was like, and I was just
sitting there and be like, this guy is like clueless and
completely out of touch. And I would agree.
I mean, especially for an age group athlete, like, you know,
throw away your entire life justso you can, you know, get a belt
buckle from a race is absolutelyridiculous.
But I do think that that's a good like, you know, model or

(25:10):
comparison of, you know, these other athletes.
Like, I don't because I, I mean,of, of having balance in your
life, understanding that there are other important things in
your life. Because ultimately, like I said,
I feel like to perform at the top level.
Like it is this, it is this balance of, you know, optimizing
everything from a performance and training standpoint, but

(25:31):
also like making sure you're taking care of relationships and
yourself and your own, you know,personal growth outside of being
an athlete. And because, and I see that, I
mean, I, I really do see that with athletes.
And it's interesting because as you see that balance, like
manifesting more in an athlete, you actually see them perform at

(25:53):
a better and better level. And like some athletes like
naturally have that and some of them don't.
You really have to, you know, help redirect them with that.
So. Yeah.
So I was reading that like kind of your coaching philosophy,
you've been known to emphasize that high performance should be
framed kind of with this three-part model of Physiology
like head and heart. And I think we're touching.

(26:14):
On that a little bit. Yeah.
Do you remember writing that? Yeah, I do.
Well, yeah, no, and I, yeah. And it's kind of like what we're
talking about is like, well, what I guess the the how I would
summarize that is like it was like, once again, we're talking
about good, you know, versus great athletes.
And I say to be the best athletein the world, you have to have

(26:34):
all three of those things in in spades, basically.
And what I mean by that is like you have to have the Physiology.
I think that's the easiest one, honestly, for people to have.
I've met, you know, over the course of my athletic career and
my coaching career, an incredible amount of insanely
talented athletes, You know whatI mean?
Just crazy Physiology, just raw natural talent.

(26:58):
But combining that with, and then you, you get the, you know,
the athlete or, or there's like in what what I says, the, the
head is like the mental component, the ability to be
coached, the ability to listen, the ability to learn, the
ability to also like handle likewhat it takes to be an elite
level athlete, you know, mentally.
And then the heart is like the want, the drive, the passion,

(27:21):
the, the, the fire, you know, and, and it's funny because like
I said, I've met, I've met people who have all of that
fire, all of the heart. You know, they, they like have
all of that, but they don't havethe Physiology or they don't
have the mind. You know, you've met the people
who have like the mind, they've got that mindset.
Like they'll do anything it takes.
But once again, but maybe it's alittle dry.
It lacks passion. So it lacks the heart or it

(27:43):
lacks the Physiology. But, and I've met tons, like I
said, of people who are physiologically absolutely
talented and maybe even they have the heart for it and they
want it so badly, but they're, you know, they have this
inability to take direction or to focus or to, you know, like
they're kind of like missing themental component.
And, and it's such a pleasure towork with athletes that have

(28:07):
like all three, because those are the athletes that can once
again, not just be good, but consistently be good.
You know, and I think that's Thething is like you might be able
to, you know, kind of be lackingone of the things and pop like a
good event every once in a while.
But to be consistently good, youhave kind of have to have all
those, all three of those things, you know, in, in as a

(28:28):
full set and also in that sometimes it takes time to
develop all three obviously as well.
I think that's another kind of Isaw, I forgot it was an NBA
coach and it was a thing that left an impact.
I I saw it like maybe four months ago.
And he said, I I recruited when,you know, when I was recruiting
people, he was like those superstars.
I didn't like, like the superstar athletes.

(28:51):
Sometimes he was like, they were, they weren't that fun to
work with. He was like, and they also like
ended up not being the best guyson the team.
And I think, like, I mean, everyone knows kind of the
Michael Jordan story. And however much of that was
like real or fabricated that he wasn't that great of a
basketball player. And you know, he grew, but I
would say the, the most successful athletes I've worked

(29:13):
with actually aren't the most talented ones, you know, like
physiologically talented ones. They're the ones who, because
they know that they have to workand they want to work and they
learn what that looks like and they don't take anything for
granted. So they're willing to uncover,
you know, you know, every rock and, and really, you know, put

(29:34):
everything they have into it. Whereas sometimes I feel like
those talented athletes, they'releaving 1020% off the table just
because they're used to showing up and everything just happening
really well. But at the top, top level, at
the Olympic level, at the world level, it doesn't work that way.
Yeah, that's super interesting you bring that up because I
think it's similarly in just in business or overall.

(29:55):
Let's just for shallow sake of making an example, but like
monetary success, it's often thepeople who end up pushing hard
and are self-made are the ones who grew up and and knew what
poverty tasted like, looked like, smelled.
Like no, for sure, for sure. And not to go too deep into
that, but I can tell a lot aboutan athlete from how they grew up

(30:19):
and what their background is, you know, and I mean, and it if
usually somewhat, I mean, not necessarily came from a scrappy
background, but came from a background where they had to
know. And this is like, this is the,
this is the term that I would put on that because I see it
with age group athletes. To the people who have learned
the value of a dollar, you know what I mean?

(30:42):
If they know what the value of adollar is, like normally it's
because they've had to like workfor it.
They've had to earn it. And I mean, a dollar can be a
metaphor as well, but I mean, even just a dollar, not as a
metaphor, but, and, and people who don't, who don't understand
that value, it's, it's hard to get them to that top, top level

(31:02):
because like said stuff has cometoo easily or they haven't had
to suffer or they haven't had to, like the other term that I
like to use. They've never had to like wake
up and look in the mirror in themorning, you know what I mean?
And be like, who are you? You know, what does it take?
What are you willing to do? And stuff like that.
I think some people think that they do that, but it's not until
you really have to do that that you actually get to like that

(31:25):
inner core and that inner drive.So of the of the Physiology, the
head and the heart, which do youstruggle with the most or have
you struggled with? Me as an athlete or me as like a
coach with athletes. Both.
Man, that's really hard as an athlete, I would say I was

(31:48):
always the heart was always there.
I wish the head was. It's kind of like a wisdom
thing. I wish I knew then what I know
now with the mental components of it.
You know, I think like I got caught up in which I mean,
athletes get caught up in today.And I mean, this is we could do
an entire podcast about this, but the what everyone else is

(32:11):
doing and is it better than me, you know, and that type of stuff
as opposed to just like me. Like when I look back at me as
an athlete, like I wish I would have just shown up at every race
and been like, no, man, you're you're the man, you know what I
mean? I don't care what so and so has
been doing or what so and so said or anything like that.
And physiologically, I think like I was like, I was talented,

(32:32):
but I wasn't like super gifted, you know what I mean?
Like, I mean, my numbers were really good, but they weren't
like, Oh my gosh, off the chartscrazy, you know?
So I would say maybe a little bit of all of them.
Yeah. And from a coach standpoint,
man, I would love working. I love working on all three.
I think that's why I like coaching is like been.

(32:54):
And I think that's the key is like each athlete, you know, you
can break them into those categories and you know, they
may be, you know, and you can almost put percentages on them
and bringing them all up, you know, and one athlete, like I
said it, you know, maybe it is the Physiology component that
you need to work on the most. I mean, that's almost the most
simple thing. Once again, you train them, you

(33:15):
train them well, but I think like physically train them well.
But like the other, you know, when working on the other things
and balancing, you know, those things out and getting them
either mentally stronger or, youknow, like passionately
stronger. But, but I would say as a coach,
I don't know if I have a strength or weakness and all of
those like technically from a, from a background perspective,

(33:39):
like trained wise, like GraduateSchool, undergraduate school is
all Physiology. So, but like I said, I feel like
that's the easy part because like, like even if I hadn't went
to undergrad or Graduate School,like I could open up books and
read articles every day about, you know, proper training
techniques and all that type of stuff.
Whereas the other stuff is less published.
And I guess it kind of goes intoanother topic here.

(34:00):
I do feel like the, the probablyin, in my opinion, the most
uncovered where the biggest performance gains are to be had
like right now, like the lowest hanging fruit I would say is the
mental component of training, racing, all that type of stuff.
It just doesn't have, I mean, there's been a ton of research,

(34:20):
but not like nearly as much as, you know, we've sunk into like
basically basic Physiology and stuff.
I think there's, there's a lot to be gained there.
And I think that's where you do see gains is like people just,
you know, the the mental game and everything.
But yeah, I mean, and I mean, you can look at some of the best
athletes in the world right now and the way they approach sport

(34:41):
and you can see that's the case.Well, what are some telltale
signs like if of an athlete maybe you're picking up or if
you're just simply analyzing someone to to figure out what
the where their mental game is? Is it is it performance on race
day? Is it conversations?
Do you ask a set of questions like an open interview?
That's a great question too, is I, I don't like, I would say

(35:01):
like my style is a little it's, it's definitely more more
organic. It's not, you know, it's not
like, OK, we're sitting down to do a session where I'm going to
ask you 10 questions and then assess your mental, you know,
strength or something like that.But honestly, a big piece of
that is like just looking at howpeople, how how people approach
their life in general, you know,and the mental component is off

(35:24):
in that way. Like this is what I always tell
my athletes is I was like, I want like, you need to be
professional about everything you do in your life.
You know, not just the training component, like, because that
it's a mindset. It's like it, it is a mindset of
like a mindset of like greatnessand a mindset, but also a
mindset of balance and, you know, taking care of all the

(35:45):
things you need to take care of.And like I said, you know, and
like on the training side of things that I mean, that is like
nutrition, you know, psychology,you know, the training training
side of things. But it's also, you know,
balancing out like all of the like personal stuff.
And I mean, kind of like a funnyexample that I would use is
like, do you make your bed when you wake up in the morning?

(36:06):
You know what I mean? And I know that's almost a
cliche and it's been discussed before, but I'm like that that
tells me a lot. You know, what I mean is that is
that important? Because I think it's important
because it sets your day up likewith, you know, on, on, on a
professional, you know, foot basically, But it's the same
thing responding to text messages, I mean, responding to

(36:27):
emails, the way that you talk toother people, the way that you
talk to me as a coach. Like all that stuff is part of
like professionalism. And, and, and it's, it's like I
said, it's part of being in a good mental space that shows
that you are focused, you know, on, on like your goals and on

(36:47):
you and on being the best personyou can be like in general.
And I know that's a lot to ask from some people too.
And like I said, some people are, you know, very strong that
way. But another thing I can tell
you, and this is this is a USATUSA triathlon working with
USA Triathlon now. I mean, I've worked with them
since 2018. So I get to, you know, work with

(37:08):
like all of the USAT elite levelathletes.
And it's from some talent IDs. But you know, I coach, I coach
some of them, but like, I get tointeract with them.
And the most, one clear sign to me is the most successful
athletes, the most consistently good athletes are also the most

(37:28):
professional in that regard too.They're the ones who, like I
said, you send out a survey, they respond back.
I mean, it's simple things like that, but they're the athletes.
They ask good questions, you know what I mean?
They're, they're really good. They're, they're really good
expressing their needs. They're really good at keeping
positive, you know, like a positive outlook.

(37:50):
They're not looking for the problems, they're looking for
solutions. Like it's, it's funny because
like you can almost look at, youknow, the performance of
individuals in particular and you can see that there are the
most like professional, the mostprofessional, the most mentally
like acute athletes are the oneswho are just the most
successful. They're not necessarily the most
talented physiologically, Yeah. What do you what part do you

(38:15):
think like your belief as a coach in the athlete matters?
A, a huge part, I mean, it's kind of like what I I said
earlier is like when I, you know, sit down with athletes
and, and like, if I'm onboardingan athlete, like I'm like, you
know, it usually takes a while to get to that process of saying
yes, because you want to make sure that you're a good fit in

(38:37):
the 1st place. But when you, when you do a lot
of times what I say to them is I'm like, listen, like if I'm,
if I'm working with you, it means that I'm putting like 100%
like belief in you. And, but I also say, but that's
a lot of responsibility because I expect the back the same from
you. I expect you to, you know, to,

(38:57):
to give me everything you have that you can as well.
And, but I think that belief is huge and, but I also think that
it can be a flaw. And I think 1 one thing that
I've seen less successful coaches do is they they
artificially inflate an athlete's confidence.
And you can do it anything. Yeah, no, exactly.

(39:19):
And, and after a while, you know, you know, you know, coach,
what am I ready for? And I feel like that's one
thing. And I always tell athletes this,
I'm like, I'm a realist and like, and sometimes that's hard
because, you know, because I'll sit down, you know, and when
we're talking about upcoming race or what races they should
do or something, I'm like, we'regoing to like do this because of
this. And I'm like, yeah, we don't
just go into every race and I'm like, you can win today, you

(39:40):
know what I mean? I'm like a realist.
I'm like, this is what I think is possible.
This is what you know, is possible, you know, like all
that stuff. And I mean, honestly, it's
pretty rare for us to look at objective goals going into
races. But I mean, there's a lot of,
you know, process goals normallyinvolved.
But even then, like there are even unspoken like objective
goals and athletes know that I'mrealistic with that.

(40:03):
And I do see some coaches, like I said, and you and what happens
with coaches who are just constantly like, oh, you know,
how am I going to do this weekend?
Oh, you're going to do incredibly good and you're an
amazing and you're going to dominate.
And then the athlete doesn't. I think, you know, over time
that actually really erodes thatrelationship because the athlete
then gets to a point in like, I don't trust you.
Every time I race, you tell me. That, you know, I'm just going

(40:25):
to, I'm the awesome and I'm the best in the world and I'm going
to do really well. And then and I actually don't
and or, you know, and so it's like, what do you know, you
know, they start losing faith ortrust in that coach because
honestly, the coach has got one game plan and it's like just,
you know, boost, boost, boost, boost, boost the athletes
confidence. But I would say we do that too
in our racing is like I like to and I tell my athletes that is

(40:46):
I'm like, we have a growth mindset in our in our group, in
our coaching group. And I was like, so I'm going to
expose you. We're going to expose you to
difficult situations, to difficult races.
We're not going to cherry pick races.
We're not going to go to, you know, some obscure race in the
middle of nowhere with 12 athletes in it.
And then, you know, have you winit and feel like a hero because
that you didn't get any experience there.
There's no growth there. You know what I mean?

(41:08):
I'm actually going to send you to challenging races with a lot
of good athletes. So you can see where that level
is. But but The thing is, is that's
also coaching. It's like, well, in order for us
to do that, like I need to make sure that you're going into that
race with that growth mindset that it's not going, you're not
going to go to the race and be like, well, geez, I got 28th and
I'll be like 28th is fine. It's better than first, you

(41:29):
know, at a race where you got nothing out of.
And because I want my athletes to kind of pine for her that,
you know, that that top, top toplevel of competition.
And also understand, you know, where those where those limits
are and you know, where that baris.
Because I feel like it's really important for them to see where
that bar is. And as long as an athlete has a

(41:50):
growth mindset and is coached well going into that, then I
think there's a ton of value there.
So yeah. I'm really glad that you
mentioned the bit about, you know, a false sense of
confidence or overinflation because it's interesting.
I've been coaching now for four years and I had a new athlete as
of like 6 months. And we were kind of re
evaluating how the back end of his season went.

(42:11):
And he said something to me. He's like, and by the way, like,
I need you to like really believe in me.
And I was like, well, what does,what does he actually mean?
And I had to think a lot about that because he had never done,
he'd never run over like 12 miles before.
I signed up for 70.3 and then signed up for an Iron Man 3
weeks later. And then I found like, hey, let
me help you not kill yourself. Yeah, right.
So but, but I really had to think a lot about that because I

(42:34):
was like, well, you know, I, forme personally, there is a level
of like when if you believe in yourself, like you can transcend
a little bit of like how hard orfast or whatever you think you
can go. But then I don't want to be
responsible for like, yeah, you're going to go out and run a
5 minute flat mile for 13 miles like when you've never run over
10. So it's like.
It's, it's a, it's a very, very delicate balance.

(42:55):
It is, you know what I mean? We're inspiring confidence in an
athlete and, and, and probably more importantly, like what you
said is inspiring them to know that you believe in them without
giving them a false sense of confidence and a false sense of
what they can accomplish. And yeah, I mean, and I think
what you're using is great because that you said people

(43:16):
will come to you and be like, hey, you know, I, I want to,
let's talk about beginner triathlete, you know, hey, I
want to do a triathlon. Will you be my coach?
I want to do an Ironman in threemonths, you know what I mean?
And you're like, well, and like,yeah, exactly.
And being and like telling that person, hey, listen, I think you
can do an Iron Man. And I would highly encourage you
to do 1, but it might take a little more than three months.

(43:37):
And it has nothing to do with, you know?
Yeah. You know, my belief in your
ability to do that, it has just to do simply with, like, what,
what it takes to finish one of these things.
Yeah. Yeah, even if you do have a ton
of talent, it's like. Right.
No, Totally. Exactly.
Yeah, Yeah. Or sometimes in that case, I'd
be like, you can do it, but it'snot, it's not going to be
pretty. You know what I mean?

(43:58):
If you want to cross the finish line feeling good about
yourself, we maybe, Yeah, need to give it more time.
Yeah. So from a coaching perspective,
do you would you have taken on? Would it have been a good fit
for you to be coaching yourself when you are in your prime as an
athlete? I naturally, I think yeah, but I
mean, if it weren't me, obviously, but I think, I mean,

(44:22):
which makes sense, right? But because, you know, I kind of
understand, you know, myself andlike what I'm thinking, and I
mean, I think to be that close and that in tune with your coach
would be incredibly valuable. But but I'm also, I'm also, you
know, probably as a lot of people are like my my own

(44:43):
biggest critic and stuff. And I think that would be
dangerous, like being, you know,coaching, like, you know, having
me coach myself if I were two different people.
I think that self coaching is incredibly dangerous just
because for that reason alone, you know what I mean?
Like you're going to you're going to give yourself what you
think you need. I also think, and it kind of
brings up another topic and I'm a big believer in in and I mean,

(45:08):
and even I mean, I'll use, you know, the sport of triathlon is
a good example. Some of the best coaches in the
sport of triathlon were not triathletes.
And you know, maybe you've neverdone an Ironman neighbor, maybe
never done a triathlon, honestly.
And I do think that it's, it's like a coach's experience as an

(45:32):
athlete can be really beneficial, but it's not
absolutely necessary to be a great coach.
And I think it's interesting that I say that because people
would be like, well, don't you want to tout that, you know,
you've been the Olympics, you'vewon Iron Man's before, like, you
know, so. But I, I think I feel like
that's a pretty trivial part of like my, my success as a coach
is my actual what I've accomplished as an athlete, you

(45:54):
know, and I think a lot of people look at that and, or
think that there's, you know, more value there where I'm like
some of the, like I said, some of the best coaches in the world
in all sports, Like they, you know, they're, they're great
coaches. They weren't necessarily maybe
they were involved with that sport in some way as an athlete,
but, you know, not necessarily the case.
So. But yeah, I see that.
Yeah, that's interesting. Who, who would you say is like

(46:16):
the best coach that you've ever met?
Oh man, I got to know that's that's a really.
And once again, it's kind of subjective and objective, you
know, like objectively looking at stuff.
Or maybe I should ask it such aswho is a coach that you have

(46:37):
most greatly wanted to emulate pieces of like how they operate?
Because that's, that's more complicated because I, I, I
think it's like, it's, I always say even coaching philosophy is
from both the, the technical like Physiology, scientific side
of it also to the personality, you know, personal relationship

(47:01):
side of it, kind of the art sideof it.
I feel like it's a smorgas, likemy style is a smorgasbord of
like a ton of people that have influenced me, you know, and I
mean, I'll go back to my high school running coach to my, you
know, my collegiate running coach and which by the way, I'll
just leave using those two as anexample.

(47:21):
My high school running coach waslike an incredibly like for the
time, for the period, like he trained us really hard and like,
it was really hard training. My collegiate coach, I would say
was less that way, but he was way more of a coach coach, way
more of a relationship person. You know, like he had all the
sayings, all of the things. And I mean, it's funny because

(47:42):
he just got inducted. My college coach, his name was
Jim Sanchez. He ran for Joe V Hill at Adams
State University and then coached at the University of
Wyoming. And he just got inducted at the
University of Wyoming Hall of Fame this last year.
And I went to the induction ceremony and I hadn't seen him.
I, I, you know, I'd messaged himand maybe we chatted a few
times, but I hadn't seen him in person in probably, you know,
whatever, 20 years and, and he just instantly, I sat down with

(48:06):
him and he instantly just start and, and I didn't even, you
know, when I was being coached by him, I didn't realize it, but
he just instantly went into likecoach mode and not like, you
know, what have you been doing running?
And you know, have you heard thelatest research that doing 10 by
800 meter repeats with one minute rest at threshold is, you
know, we didn't go to he just started going into like the life
philosophies type stuff. And so like, I would say like,

(48:27):
you know, he he's a good example.
I got a lot out of that. You know, Joe Freel, like such a
technical, you know, coach and such a like, kind of like
pioneer in in coaching. I like in running Arthur
Lydiard. I love Lydiard stuff.
I love the way that he framed things.
I love, I've seen him speak multiple times, you know, he

(48:47):
passed away. But but he like his running
philosophies. I really, really subscribe to
and I also there's some other collegiate running coaches that,
you know, I'd connected with in college and post collegiately
that I really subscribe to their, you know, philosophies
too. You know, some swim coaches, I

(49:07):
would say the same way, but I, it's kind of a smorgasbord, you
know, of all of that type of stuff.
But I still have those people inmy life today.
I mean, I've, you know, I've, I've met people now who like, I
meet them who are coaches. And I actually had a
conversation. I won't name his name because I
don't, I don't know if you'd want me to, but I, I've had a

(49:28):
conversation with the guy recently and he, and he's a
great, he's a coach. He's been a coach for a really,
really long time. And I was talking to him.
I was like, man, I was at one ofour races.
We are I was at a WTCS race in France because I remember the
conversation and we were talkingand he was like, well, he's
like, I appreciate you and I appreciate you being open to,
you know, listening to what I'm saying.

(49:49):
And I was like, yeah. And I was like, you know, I
haven't thought about this. I was like, but I don't like, I
was like, it's great for even meat this stage in my career to
have someone to talk with, like coaching stuff about like, once
again, not should we be doing, you know, this, this workout at
this time, but more just like, Hey, this is, this is, you know,
these are challenges that I haveas a coach.

(50:09):
And, and, and I was like, I'm not asking you to be this for
me. I was like, but, but I, but I, I
kind of am, is like, will you like continue just to have these
conversations with me? And we won't call it a
mentorship, but I just appreciate your advice.
And he was like, no, absolutely man, because he has, he's an
older coach. He's probably, you know, he's
1520 years older than me. So, but I was like, I mean, I, I

(50:30):
think that growth and having that growth is, is always a nice
thing too. So not only, I guess long answer
your question, but I would say, you know, there are a lot of
people like all, you know, picking up pieces here and there
from all of them and but continuing, you know, to get
that, like I said, even Joe Frill, like when I almost every
time I talk to Joe Frill, he hassomething fascinating to say.

(50:51):
Usually once again, more on likethe Physiology training side of
things, but it's like, but it's in, it's eye opening to me, you
know what I mean? So I think just keeping those
ears open and and, you know, continuing those relationships
and learning from those people is always an incredibly valuable
thing And and which a whole other topic.
But again, is I do think there'sso much noise in coaching right

(51:14):
now and especially when it comesto like equipment and, you know,
data analysis and and, you know,science and stuff.
And I think that's a big part ofbeing a coach now is like
wedding that noise out because there's so much BSI mean they're
there, you know, and and I mean,and it's funny because, as you
know, with coaching, you know, athletes will come to me and
they'll be like, Hey, I just sawthis new device that, you know,

(51:36):
such and such pros using and this is the newest, you know,
latest greatest thing. And I mean, because that guy's
the best in the world right now.So how could it not be?
And and like. Athlete endorsed.
As I got older, yeah, I got, as I got older, I've been way
better with my intuition, with that.
I think like I used to be like, well, shoot, I'm going to have
to read all about this and, you know, dive into it as much as I
possibly can and all that stuff.And a lot of Times Now I've like

(51:59):
learned I'm like, no, my first intuition is normally like,
well, that kind of sounds like BS to me.
And then you when I do a little bit of research, I'm like, it
is. And that athletes just getting
paid and it's definitely not. Whereas there are still those
gems though that do come up and you can't miss those gems of
important things like to, you know, to implement into training
or racing or whatever. And I think that that's, it's

(52:19):
one of the, I mean, it's, it's one of the hardest things about
life right now is just sorting through all the, all the chaos
and noise. But I think as a coach, that's
like another key part of it, especially just like an athlete,
especially if you're wanting to coach people at the highest
level in the world, you know what I mean?
I think you've got, you've got to be in tune with that stuff as
much as possible and also be able to eliminate this stuff

(52:41):
because for the athletes, they don't want to have to like, you
know, think, you know, should I be taking this new supplement
that, you know, that is actuallycompletely ineffective and
useless? I mean, they kind of rely on you
to to eliminate that noise. Are you a good coach?
I yes, I would say yeah. I mean, I'd say I, I would hope
so. But this is what, what I would

(53:02):
say about that is all. I would just let the results of
my athletes speak to that. You know, the amount of athletes
that I've worked with over the years, both talented and
untalented, who have risen, you know, to the top, top level, I
think just kind of like it. It, it kind of validates that.
Yeah. And, and I mean, that's a whole

(53:24):
other topic once again, is I think there's a lot of noise in
the coaching world and there's some people who are really,
really, really great on Instagram, you know, and all
that type of stuff. But if you look at like
historical results and success and at success at the highest
level, you would, you would realize that it's all just a
ruse, you know, and, and I thinkI'm sensitive to that because
I'm kind of the opposite. I'm not on Instagram every day

(53:45):
telling people how great I am orhow my, how great my athletes
are. But, but I, but I, but because
I, I think that's just more of my personality.
I'd be like, just do the research and, and you know, and
look at who I've worked with andyou know what they've
accomplished. And I hope that you would come
to the conclusion that I can I do a good job.
Yeah, good answer. I think the most skillful and

(54:05):
dangerous people that sit in a room are usually the ones that
are quieter, the boisterous onessitting there.
Yeah, I know. Yeah.
And it's funny though, because the world today, and I mean, I,
I mean, it's a, it's really, it's a, you know, it's like,
almost like a, a, a moral battlewith myself is like, you know,
because self promotion is such athing, you know, now and, and

(54:26):
all that type of stuff. And, and I'm really not good at
it and I don't feel comfortable with doing it.
But sometimes like, it's almost like necessary just to like just
to like be like relevant, right.Yeah, to exist.
Yeah. Which is is a bummer because
it's not who I am from like a naturals, you know, from a human
nature standpoint. Yeah.
I was going to say, is that nurture nature, like were these

(54:47):
principles that your parents held or is this something you
kind of adopted or were born with?
Right. You know, that's a good question
too. I think my dad was the type of
guy where and he was kind of like Joe Freel and I, I really
respect my dad is he was, he never sat down with me and said,

(55:07):
son, we're having a talk today about, you know, the meaning of
life or about, you know what it's what it means to be a man
or, you know, anything like that.
He, he all of his lessons were like subtle and in his actions.
And one thing I would say that like he made very clear, like
growing up was, you know what herespect the athletes that he

(55:28):
respected in sport. We're not I mean, whatever sport
it was track and field, like basketball, they were always the
athletes that just showed up andkicked ass basically, you know
what I mean? And did the work, didn't mouth
off, didn't tell everyone how great they were and everything.
And I think that like, I I mean,obviously that's partial
partially nature as I have his genes, but I think like that

(55:50):
nurture component from him was that, you know, just be be
understated and just do a great job and ultimately, you know,
people will see that success. But I also, I can say like, so I
think it's, it is obviously a little bit of both like adapting
that. But I would also say the
athletes that I work with, that I'm most successful with, like

(56:10):
appreciate that about me, you know what I mean?
They, they like see these bells and whistles and, and like, you
know, don't look behind the, thecurtain coaches.
And they're like, I would never work with that guy because I see
that it's all a ruse and it's all BS and everything.
And the reason why I do work with you is because you, you are
real and you're, you're straightup front.

(56:32):
And I know you don't play those games and you know, they, which
I think ultimately, if you can get through that, then it gives
them the confidence, you know? So, yeah, I know you know an
athlete who we haven't mentionedtonight because I know that
you've had him on as John Reed, as, I mean, John Reed is that
guy. You know what I mean?
He is like, he's down to earth. He does not want any excess BS
in his life. And he can smell that from a

(56:54):
mile away. Yeah.
Yeah. Which I really appreciate about
him. Yeah.
Because. Yeah.
I know he talks quite well aboutyou, and he did in the podcast
as well. He's actually told me to write
your name down, to reach out, soI'm so glad to do that.
But my goodness, he seems like he could be like your son.
Yeah, it's funny because my, my Natalie, my my significant other

(57:17):
often says that she's like, Oh my gosh.
Which is actually scary because like, you know, I look at things
about John and, and it does remind me, but I think that's
why I can connect with him as well, because I think we do
have, you know, like similar levels of like intensity.
We came from very different backgrounds in certain ways, but

(57:38):
also similar backgrounds. Like say he's a very working
class kid and you know, he has this drive, he has this passion,
he has this mindset and which, you know, I really appreciate.
And I mean, there's a lot of athletes, you know, that I work
with, you know, that have that as well.
But you're right, John, it's, it's funny because he he is, I
think, I think it, it's a littlebit easier to connect with him

(58:02):
because I do think that there are similarities between the two
of us. And I just know that like
there's also just kind of this mutual like respect and trust
each other, which is incredibly,you know, important to have as
well. But yeah, I mean, I just yeah,
yeah. And I mean, yeah, you see it
with him too. Like he's, he's got an

(58:23):
incredible mindset for growth and, and he's, and he's doing
that too. He's just consistently getting
better and better and better. It's funny because the
conversation I had with him somewhat recently is, I mean,
he's had a heck of a year this year.
And, and he's the top ranked American by quite a ways from a

(58:44):
point standpoint. And, and he's definitely been
the most consistent American pricing at a top level.
And he, he like, I always want him to do well.
And, you know, he, he was on a podium at a WTCS at the age of
23, which is pretty, pretty amazing.
And it's rare. I mean, the last WTCS podium we

(59:06):
had was when Morgan won Yokohama, which was a few years
ago now. And, and, and I'm like, you're
23. And John's like, yeah.
And and that's John's mindset. I'm going to be on the podium at
every race, you know, here on out.
And I'm like, well, that would be great.
And I was like, and I don't havethat expectation because
honestly, in world triathlon racing, it's, it's difficult
like just the dynamics of races for that to happen.

(59:27):
And I was like, and I'm going tobe honest with you, I was like,
I don't want you doing that justyet.
And he was like, well, he's like, what do you mean?
You know what? And I was like, I was like, too
early. Like I was like, you're on this
trajectory, you know what I mean?
And I, it's nice to have these athletes like on this
trajectory. And, you know, as you get up
here and you start doing this, it gets like, you know, harder
and harder and harder. I'm like, LA is, you know, three

(59:49):
years away. I was like, you are in a perfect
place right now, you know, for where we need to be in this
moment, you know, and it's like it's.
Just the throttle. Just yeah, well, that's the
thing. It's almost like when you're
coaching an athlete and all of asudden they're like really fit
and you're like, Oh my gosh, ourraces in six weeks and they're
taking every box right now. You're like, you know, I want to
like almost like throttle it offa little bit.
Yeah. You know, with him, like even

(01:00:11):
on, I mean that can happen on a short term perspective, but it
can also happen. Like on a long term perspective,
but I think he sees that. And I mean, that's another value
of like, I think value of any good athlete is they do see like
he sees the big picture of the long term picture.
And he's also once again a realist, you know what I mean?
He understands. I mean, he could be in the
opposite, you know, like space and he would know that.

(01:00:32):
Like if, you know, if he, if he were going to WTCS races and
getting laughed out of them, like at this point, like, you
know, like, and if I said, dude,you're going to win the
Olympics, he'd be like, he's like, how do you see that
trajectory happening, man? Like he'd be real with me and
even me know that I was, you know, you know, kind of like
full of it. But I, I think that he like,

(01:00:54):
like said, he sees that long term, he always wants the best.
I mean, all all the really good athletes do and everything, but
he also sees like the big picture and the fact that that
doesn't happen overnight, you know, and you know, especially
at his age. But I think that's the value of
of really good athletes as they can.
They can see that they're not looking two weeks down the line,

(01:01:14):
two months down the line. They're definitely they have
that big long term outlook. And I try to preach that to them
as well, especially especially when you get a kid as young as
John. I mean, I think I started
working with him when he's like,you know, 2020, 21 years old.
And so like, you know, it's like, hey, like, you know,
you're this good this year and then you know, we're just going
to keep on progressing like that.
And especially when you get talent ID athletes who aren't

(01:01:35):
even coming from the sport of triathlon, like really preaching
that long term thing because it sometimes takes a while to like
start seeing results from them. Yeah.
Do you ever, have you ever or doyou ever get emotional with your
athletes, whether that's watching a finish line or.
Oh yeah. Oh, no, for sure.
Yeah, big time. Yeah.
It's something, I mean, it's actually something that I need

(01:01:56):
to work on because it's, it can make a weekend, you know, and I
always say this is something that I'll say especially, you
know, when you have whatever 8 athletes racing on a weekend,
they're not all of them are ever.
You never have a weekend where everyone just crushes it.
But you also never have a weekend where everyone just
totally blows it. You know what I mean?

(01:02:16):
It's usually like, this athlete did amazing.
This athlete did about what you'd expect.
This athlete had a bad day. But it's kind of hard as a coach
because you do get, I mean, I get so emotionally invested in,
in them as people. You know, it's like, almost like
empathy ultimately. And and that like you feel the,
the high of I, I, I feel the high of their highs and but you

(01:02:36):
also feel the low of their lows.So like on the same day, like
emotionally, like, you know, like I, I get back to a hotel
room after a big races 8:00 and I'm exhausted.
And a lot of it, I think doesn'thave to do with the fact that
I've been on my feet in the sun all day.
It has to do with like just the,the emotion of the race, you
know, both the highs and the lows.
And I mean, I think that's it. Yeah, it it is a pretty like

(01:02:59):
heart. And like I said, I that is one
thing I'm trying to work on myself is to not let myself
like, I mean, I think it's an important like attribute to be
that connected to the race, to the outcomes, you know, to the
athletes that way. But it's also something to kind
of regulate because it, it really beats you down, you know
what I mean It. Yeah.
And just like the athletes, sometimes it's completely out of

(01:03:21):
your control, you know? As the spearhead of like,
obviously the program and then the other things you do that we
haven't talked about, do you ever feel lonely as a leader,
like where you feel a little isolated and unable to?
Yeah, I guess I won't even finish that question, but.
Not, not really. And I would say because I have

(01:03:42):
people in my life who kind of like feel the different, you
know, feel the different, Yeah. Like to, you know, like I, I
know I can go to this person to,you know, talk about this.
I know that I can go to this other person to talk about this.
And so I, I feel like it's not, yeah, I don't, I don't feel like
lonely and like that way. I do feel like it is hard for

(01:04:05):
people who aren't in that world or coaching at that level to
understand, like said, how connected, you know, you are to
the athletes and, and, you know,and how like, you know, it can
impact you so much. Yeah.
But I, but I also think, like I said, I mean, I kind of
philosophically, I feel like that's you need to have that
connection with them in order tobe, you know, truly, truly

(01:04:27):
effective. Yeah.
Yeah. So let me ask you this.
What is something difficult thatyou're going through that people
don't often see? That's a good question too.
I would just say, I mean that. I mean, it's funny because I
think people see it and, and outwardly express it, but they

(01:04:49):
don't totally understand it, if that makes sense.
And it's just that we are, we are a traveling roadshow.
We're gone a lot. We're on the road a lot.
This is what I would say. It's almost the opposite.
You know, when I, when people say, you know, where have you
been the last month? And I'll be like, well, you
know, I was at training camp at altitude in Switzerland and, you

(01:05:09):
know, and then we went to China and then I went to Australia and
I was in Australia for three weeks and I just got back and
they're like, Oh my God, you live the coolest life.
You get to see the coolest things.
And it's like from an outside perspective, that is cool.
And I mean, and I, and I actually, it, I like, I
appreciate that about my job, you know what I mean?
I get to travel to amazing places all around the world all

(01:05:32):
year, but it's also exhausting and it's away from people you
love, it's away from your family, you know, all that type
of stuff. So I think that people see it,
but what they don't understand is that, you know, and it's
funny because you know, you kindof, it is kind of like this
traveling circus and it's all the same athletes and all the
same coaches and all the same administrative staff.

(01:05:54):
And usually like, you know, we are just in Australia at the
grand final. And by the end, you know, you're
kind of like sitting around withall these people who have been
on the circuit all year and, andeveryone's like, oh, I can't
wait to get home. And it's like, and everyone is
equally as passionate and dedicated, like to their jobs
and what they're doing and everything.
But also it's almost like this, those people get it.
It's almost like this joint bonding.

(01:06:16):
And I actually feel that one nowduring the offseason, then you
go to the first season of the year, you reconnect with all
these people from around the world who you kind of have this
really common bond with. And they're kind of like this
road family almost. And that's kind of a nice thing
because I think those people understand it the most, you
know? But, I mean, it's unspoken, you
know, they know exactly that, You know, you, you've just been
on 22 flights, you know, and, you know.

(01:06:38):
Yeah. And traveled around the world
and eaten weird food and, you know, dealt with strange people
and, you know. Yeah.
All those things, you know. Yeah.
I love that especially at such ayoung age now like that,
athletes can have those experiences, especially with the
multicultural experience. Big time.
I feel like it opens people's perspective just to be a better

(01:07:00):
human in so many ways. Like I, I know too many people,
even in my own, like immediate families who have like never
been outside of like 50 miles from like their town and just
the, the mindset that that can create.
And there's certain people, I mean, there's still good people
in those areas for sure. But in terms of this, your
ability to empathize or understand or just hold your
tongue a little bit longer, I think to as you hear about

(01:07:22):
life's things, it's like, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's the value
of travel in general, right? Irregardless of if it's, you
know, for for sport or anything.And you're right, these
athletes, it's funny because it's such a lesson in adversity
as well in dealing with adversity, you know what I mean?
You go to these foreign countries and stuff isn't like
it is, you know, let's say in the United States, sometimes

(01:07:42):
it's better, you know, sometimesstuff is functioning way better.
And you know, sometimes it's it's, you know, like
significantly more challenging. And I think that is the sign of
like the great athletes too, is they just learned to like, you
know, roll with that. It was funny because actually my
significant other, she was like,you're so good with
international travel. She was like, you just like, you

(01:08:03):
deal with it. And I was like, it's that's a
learned behavior. And she was like, you just don't
like, you know, we land in the middle of nowhere and, you know,
and they're like, well, you're next.
You know, you're stuck here for three days in this weird airport
in the middle of nowhere, and you're always like, yeah,
whatever. And I was like, well, 'cause you
kind of got to be that way, but.Yeah.
If you're done, you'll die of stress.
But I think like what you said, and I mean, it's, it's almost

(01:08:24):
like it's not political commentary, but like, yeah, you
know, our athletes, like they see how the rest of the world
works and what they struggle, you know, what the rest of the
world struggles with or doesn't struggle with and how they
function and, and even their perception, you know, of us as

(01:08:44):
Americans and the United States.And I think that's so valuable
for our for for anyone. I mean, once again, just travel
in general. But you know, definitely for our
athletes, it makes them like, you know, more well-rounded,
like individuals. And, and like I said, it's such
an opportunity for growth, especially at such a young age.
I mean, I remember like my earlyraces, same thing.

(01:09:05):
I mean, those first trips that Itook were like just mind
blowing. You know, like my first World
Championships are actually, it'snot true.
My Second World championships was in England when I was 19
years old. And I mean, England is probably
the most American like almost place in the world.
And I mean, it was like, you know, I was like, oh geez, I'm
you know, I'm this international, like, you know,
traveler and Oh my gosh, it's sodifferent.

(01:09:27):
And now after being that, you know, just the craziest places
in the world, like, you know, England seems incredibly mild.
But even at that point, that wassuch an eye opener, you know?
Yeah, yeah. And I feel especially on the
like the the topic of empathy because so when I was in
college, I was afforded just theopportunity.
I started a small business that somehow landed me going to do
business in China for a number of years until COVID.

(01:09:49):
But for me, like, even though the business eventually like
went up in smoke and I had all Icould walk away from with that
was just a ton of experience. But one of the greatest lessons
I learned was just like this just for one small example, you
know, kids who grow up in the USand at least in my generation,
everybody be like, oh, made in China.
Oh, it's got to be junk kind of a thing, right?
We hear all the news and whatever.
But when I went to China, man, it was like the most eye opening

(01:10:13):
experience because the people I met were so long term focused,
so kind paid for me to go to here, go to there, go to a
competing factory. And it just like it started to
like wake me up for the first time in that, Oh well, just
because China, China or whateverTrump says or whoever says like
these, these are actual human beings who have a lived
experience and well, they have different values.

(01:10:35):
But like to give that to someoneis such a a gift that I wish
everyone could have. It's funny that you say that
too, because so this was our second year of going to weigh
high in China for the WTCS, second year that they've had a
WTCS. The first year it was almost
like COVID because they had us like in a little hotel.
We were out of the city and like, I feel like I, I didn't

(01:10:56):
get to experience like the country very much or the city
very much because we were sort of isolated this year.
We were way more in the city. And that's, it's funny what you
just said because what I walked away from I, I almost was like,
I am nervous when I left China and people are like, why?
And I said they are so advanced way beyond, way beyond stuff

(01:11:20):
that we're doing right now, bothin, in, in, in, in, in
technology, in just lifestyle and stuff.
And I mean, it is, it's a very different culture.
It's a very different life, that's for sure.
And, and I mean, personally, I mean, I don't know how much time
you spent there, but I, I think like, I would have a hard time
like living there, you know, fora while.

(01:11:40):
It would definitely take a significant adjustment because
it's so different. But, but you know, like, I mean,
80% of the cars on the road are,are electric cars now be.
And they just, I mean, I guess that's the, the, the they, you
know, it's just like they institute, OK, well, we're going
to get rid of, you know, this. And they, all of a sudden just
every car is almost an electric car.

(01:12:01):
And there's all these electric car companies, you know, I mean,
and it's kind of fun. I, I actually love like cars.
I like, you know, like followingcars and stuff and, and you
know, the both old and new, but I'm like, there's like 5
company. I'm like, I've never seen that.
I've never seen that car. I don't know even that company.
And I mean, there's all these new companies, but I mean,
that's just an example. But like their drivers, this is

(01:12:23):
another thing that like just blew me away is like they're,
they're like Uber and I forgot what the Uber of, of China's
called, but I could look on my phone right now at the app, but
like their, their app that they have the drivers in the car.
It would show them every light that we were coming up to and
exactly how many seconds each light was until it changed green
or red, like 10 stoplights ahead.

(01:12:44):
So you could look at like the app and I'd be like, OK, the
next stoplights turning green. And, and I mean, I was like that
simple technology, but we don't have that or do that in the
United States. And but there's just so many
things like you said, I was likeblown away.
And it it almost made me afraid like for for the United States
because I was like, I was like, they are instituting stuff
technology so quickly right now that is so advanced from like

(01:13:08):
what we're seeing. I was like, who knows what 10
years is going to look like? You know what I mean?
Yeah, it's pretty. Interesting.
Yeah, I went for like a month atone point and then I would go
two or three times a year for three years just to go and visit
factors and whatnot. And I will say from travelling
around like, yeah, it in China there was a different types of
cultures, even subcultures within China.

(01:13:29):
You go up north and like near Tibet, you know, it's obviously
very different than if. You're in rural.
Shanghai or Ningbo or Ningbo or whatever, but it was pretty
crazy. Like even the fashion aspect of
it. I was looking at people in 20,
1718 and 19 and like looking at what they were wearing me like,
wow, that's so strange. And I kid you not, like that's
the fashion that is now startingto exactly.

(01:13:51):
I was like, we are what are we talking about?
World leaders Like we're literally and even in fashion
following. So I thought that was super
fascinating. But yeah, some of.
That totally. Well, I think that's true too is
and one experience I have not had in China is like, and I've
been told is rural China is still incredibly, incredibly
rural and incredibly like, you know, like, I mean, you know
what, whatever and and and you know, non developed, etcetera.

(01:14:12):
And whereas the cities are like incredibly, you know,
progressive and stuff, but you could just see, you could just
see life and development. And I mean, the speed of things
is it's pretty fast. Yeah.
Yeah. So changing the subject kind of
a little bit here for the more of the closing moments of the,
the conversation, but your your demeanor.

(01:14:33):
So obviously you, you seem to have a great emphasis on
empathy, dedication, obviously, but you're like kindness comes
through like pretty soft spirited, measured, calculated.
Are those foundational principles that you kind of
guide yourself with or conduct yourself with?
Are those rooted in any type of like spiritual, religious

(01:14:55):
grounding or is that just something you kind of have
adopted out of your own? I think it's just more of like,
yeah, I a, a lifestyle. And I, I would also say it's
funny because, yeah, I don't know if I would define myself as
a kind person, but. I haven't seen you on the track
yet with your. Yeah, that's right.

(01:15:16):
Yeah. Well, and honestly, like dealing
with athletes, like I would say that like I am, I'm very
serious. Like I, I would say the like a a
feedback that's not always a positive feedback that I would
get from athletes. It's not kindness as I'm direct,
you know what I mean? I'm like, I'm pretty like, I'm
pretty straightforward. I mean, I try to be, you know,
diplomatic and everything, but like, like, I mean, we kind of

(01:15:36):
talked about this before. I'm not going to tell people
something that I don't believe just to make them, you know,
feel better. I'm normally like, and I, I can
tell them something that's, you know, that's critical or
criticism. And I think I'm, I am sensitive
to that though, like giving people critical feedback while
also, you know, allowing them tosee it as like growth as

(01:15:57):
opposed. You know, I'm, I'm not the type
of coach that's like, you know, what are you doing?
You're, you know, that was horrible.
And you're, you know, you're, you're never going to be a good
athlete. Like, you know, nothing like
that. But it's not, it doesn't, it's
not based on any like religious or spiritual thing.
I think it's just more of it's, it's just more of I would say a

(01:16:18):
like who I am, but be just like what I see as valuable to be a
good coach, you know, and to be the most effective coach for,
you know, certain people. Like I, I said, I think my
athletes that I work with, whichthis honestly doesn't work for
everyone. They know that I have, I have

(01:16:38):
high standards and high expectations, realistic
expectations, but high expectations.
But I also think that because ofthat, they understand, like I
said, then they understand like what the that then they want to
be, you know, the best in the world, but they're not satisfied
with mediocrity, you know, because they know that I'm not.
And and which I said, like I said, some people maybe that's

(01:17:01):
not the best fit, like some athletes that might not be the
best fit because, you know, I amalways like looking.
But but I would say that I do that and in a whatever a
compassionate way or, and a a athlete specific way, you know,
with each athlete. And I, I would say that's what
I'm most proud of almost is like, you know, my ability to

(01:17:21):
connect with each athlete in their own way and understand
them in their own way, both physiologically and like
mentally, spiritually to, you know, to get the most out of
them and everything. But like I said, it's not, it's
not like a defined practice, youknow what I mean?
It's not like I've created a even, you know, even for myself,
like, hey, this is your philosophy.

(01:17:42):
I think it's just more of a natural, you know, way of doing
things. Yeah.
Did you grow up with any of thatinfluence, like religious
influence at all? No, none, very much not.
Yeah, which is interesting. I mean, I grew up in, like said,
rural Wyoming. And I mean, religion was
certainly a piece of a lot of the culture, but not.
But I've also also, I think it'slike almost like I would say one

(01:18:08):
of the biggest religions that I've grown up with is like self
accountability, you know, which is interesting.
Like it, you know, it's kind of like they do unto others, like,
you know, philosophy more than anything.
And I and which is it's just like self accountability.
It's like, you know, think abouthow you're being perceived.
Would you want to be treated this way?
Would you not wanted to be treated this way?

(01:18:30):
You know, that type of stuff as opposed to and just being like a
functional, like, you know, human, a nice, good person,
which I mean, it's shocking today, honestly, with, you know,
people we deal with even, you know, when in work and industry
and and you know, like how like sort of non functional some
people are in that way. You know what I mean?
It's I'm just like, just can't we just be like nice and

(01:18:53):
communicate? Yeah.
Yeah, unfortunate. Yeah, go for it.
No, that's, yeah. That was all.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting to
me. I always love hearing how people
grow up and how it may or may not influence it.
But it's interesting also because I've met people whose
parents were great people, religious or not.
But then there's always like theage of accountability or reason

(01:19:15):
when it, when a kid starts to like make decisions that lead
them down one path or the other.And it's always interesting,
like whether it's wealth, whether it's religious practice,
how they treat others. Sometimes as you raise kids,
like, they, they end up kind of going down the the optimal path
or what you think would be optimal in terms of like living
a good life, people talking highly of them.

(01:19:36):
But then other times it's like, what happened?
Yeah. And you can never.
It's like, it's not really throwing the dice because
there's choices to be made. But at the same time, how do you
point? It's kind of nature and nurture
like you said too, I always say,and I don't know, like with me,
I kind of joke about. I was like, I feel like in, and
I mean, I will attribute this tomy parents being good parents

(01:19:59):
and I didn't realize it at the time, but like, I was like, you
know, in my life at this point, I've probably had about five
points where I could have taken the left or the right fork and
for some reason, I always took the correct one.
And if I wouldn't have taken theother one, like I said at the
beginning of the, the podcast, like I'd probably be in jail
right now. But I, but I also, I, I think
there is more to it than that and everything.

(01:20:20):
And I think honestly, like said,part of it is just the way that
you're, you know, raised ultimately and.
And brought up and you you don'tsee that stuff happening at the
time, but but you know, it is the case, yeah.
Yeah. So what's next for you?
It's a good question. We're we're actually, it is
almost what I would call the offseason.

(01:20:41):
Some athletes are in the offseason right now.
So this time of the year for me is significant planning.
It's planning the, the, it's playing the 2026 season.
It's booking, signing leases andbooking houses for all the
different locations that we're going.
It's starting to get it's, it's were, it was some of the
athletes we have training or nottraining race plans, like

(01:21:03):
already like penciled in pretty well.
And other ones were like still in that formulation process for
the 2026 season. And, and yeah.
And it's also like actually withsome athletes who aren't quite
finished, it's like debrief season, you know, like sitting
down and like, you know, reviewing this year.
And then that starts, you know, opening up conversations about,
you know, how, how to approach next year and everything.

(01:21:25):
But it is, it's like more of a reflective time and a planning
time. And which is nice because
actually, I, I was listening to a, a podcast actually with a
woman. And I mean, my partner listened
to it too. And she was talking about how
like, and I, I feel like this time of the year, I'm at my
clearest like that. I like, I'm at my most like

(01:21:47):
thoughtful and creative because I do have time to sit down and
like really, you know, think. And this is when I change
things. This is when I write workouts
like almost like a writer is like sometimes I'll wake up in
the middle of the night and I'llbe and you know, you like have
like a workout come to you and I'd be like, I got to get up and
go write this down, right. I think you might be relatively
unique in that vein. Maybe but but but but like that,

(01:22:11):
this is the time of the year andit's funny that that like just
starts happening like organically.
I feel like when we're in the middle of the season, like you
know that it's just you're, you're, you know, you're just
you're you're playing the game. So it's also because I know that
I've been doing this long enoughthat it is why this time of the
year is such a playing time of the year because I know that
once we hit the ground running like, you know, those things
need to be really set in place, certainly amendable as we go

(01:22:34):
throughout the year. I think that's an important like
you know, component with both training and just our living
situations etcetera. But but, but it is getting it
all set in place now is helpful because once we get going, like
it is really the ball ends up rolling, you know, so, so it is,
it's like kind of that reflective and planning time of
the year and which is nice because I like I said, I get a

(01:22:56):
little bit more downtime and it's not quite as intensive.
And I think the athletes it's, it's just like the athletes like
they need that like kind of break and reflection time as
well. And I mean, I need that as a
coach. And I think it's healthy with my
athletes to create that like, you know, kind of separation
too, because some of those, you know, some of us are like
basically together every day, you know, all day heavy here.

(01:23:18):
So it's kind of nice to get a little bit of a, you know, space
from everyone for everyone to, you know, go, go into their own
whatever recharge mode. Yeah, one of the one of the
biggest things that stuck with me, I don't know why
necessarily, but after the firstconversation I had with Mark
Allen and talking about, you know, overtraining and things

(01:23:39):
like that. And he was saying, you know,
there's no one really can defineit, but there are these deep
wells that you go into and you extract water from these deep
wells. And really the only way to kind
of refill those wells and I paraphrase is like taking
extended periods of time off where like it's a mental,
spiritual, physical thing where you just kind of refill those
cisterns so that you can begin to draw from those again.

(01:24:00):
But then hopefully as they fill up, they kind of widen as well.
So yeah, that was something he said to me along those lines.
It just stuck with me. It's funny because that is it's
I like that like metaphor 1, what I always tell my athletes,
or this is like even what I'd write in training peeps.
And I'd be like, this period is for recharging your mental and
physical batteries because that's what I basically like.

(01:24:21):
You are plugging in right now. And we want once once we get
rolling to get. I want both of those things to
be at 100%, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Yeah. It's like, yeah, the Mark Allen
comparison. Yeah.
You want that well full when youstart digging into it again.
Yeah, no kidding. Yeah.
Well, Ryan, thank you so much for taking the time.
I'm glad I was able to get you on and make it happen.

(01:24:42):
But my, my knowledge base has been enriched by it, but just
here in your experience. So I appreciate you taking the
time to share with me, obviously, but then also anyone
who listens. Yeah, yeah, I know.
Great. Yeah, it was great chatting with
you. And yeah, hopefully we got some
valuable stuff out of this. I'm sure we did.
Thank you. Good.

(01:25:03):
Thank you so much to Ryan for coming on the show.
Really good conversation, especially around the Physiology
head, heart concept, kind of thethree points that he does a lot
of his coaching through. I think at the end of the day,
like everyone, no matter your level of Physiology head or your
heart, it's good to be aware of those just so that you can kind
of rise the ship with all the tides of those different

(01:25:25):
elements and verticals when it comes to the way that we think,
the way that we feel and the waythat we operate physically.
Yeah, really good, great conversation.
Make sure to check out all of the different stuff that Ryan
has going on from his coaching platform.
And then obviously, the USA Triathlon director of High
Performance, be on the lookout for John Reed and some of these
guys that he's working with as they look forward to LA 2028 and

(01:25:46):
beyond. Yeah, really appreciate you guys
being here. Thank you so much for letting me
ramble. And if you have any suggestions
for future guests you think thatshould have fun, please feel
free to send me a message on theInstagram or leave a comment.
All right, thank you guys so much.
And I'll catch you in the next one.
Peace.

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#196 - Ryan Bolton, USAT Director of High Performance - Physiology, Head & Heart: Coaching High-Performance Athletes With Purpose

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#196 - Ryan Bolton, USAT Director of High Performance - Physiology, Head & Heart: Coaching High-Performance Athletes With Purpose