#199 - Jon McLaughlin, Professional Singer-Songwriter - Music, Fatherhood & Finishing His First Ironman - Stupid Questions with Seth Hill

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
How's it going everyone? And welcome back to another
edition of the Stupid Questions podcast.
Today in the POD going to be talking with John McLaughlin.
He is a musical performing artist.
He's a musician. Make sure to check out his show
note or the in the show notes for his Instagram and the tours
and stuff he's got going on. But really great guy also is the
Co host of a podcast called Dadville and recently just did

(00:22):
his first Iron Man Iron Man Arizona.
So that's actually how we got connected.
Super pumped to have him on to hear his story, and now I'll get
to share it with you guys. So thank you so much for being
here. Check out the show notes if you
want to follow any of his dealings in the world,
especially with his tours comingup.
And last thing I just want to say if you're here, thank you so
much, Really appreciate you. If you are listening on YouTube

(00:44):
or watching there, like comment,subscribe, turn on the
notification bell. And also if you are listening on
Spotify or Apple Podcasts, if you could like and review,
comment, all of these things continue to help grow the
podcast. 75% of you actually don't even follow or subscribe
listen. So thank you for being here.
Thank you to John. And without further ado, want to
introduce you to him, Mr. John McLaughlin.

(01:07):
So you followed the typical takeyour bike into the shop 2 days
before the race kind of a thing.Yeah, well, I thought.
That I would have to like totally take my bike apart to
fly with it. I've never done that before.
OK. Yeah, yeah.
And I was borrowing a friend of mine's case, which was great
because, you know, I didn't haveto spend 600 bucks on a case.

(01:30):
But I thought, you know, I thought I'm going to have to,
like, take this thing totally apart.
And then I want somebody who knows what they're doing to
actually put it together. But I didn't really have to do
that. But I still, you know, I was
like, I still want somebody to, like, sign off on this bike,
make it as fast as possible. It needed new tape, you know.

(01:51):
But yeah I did the Cardinal Classics and of like 24 hours
before the race some guy in a bike shop is like you really
should buy a new bike. Your bottom bracket is actually
disintegrated, yeah. Yeah, I think it's like it's
rusted out because of just beingon the trainer a bunch.

(02:12):
And like, I thought I was protecting it from all the
sweat, but probably wasn't, you know?
Yeah. Man, it's crazy how sweat can do
such a an enormous amount of damage on any part of a bicycle.
It's actually crazy. Like people's sweat has fused
seat posts and every all kinds of other stuff.
Like literally together. I've seen people have to saw

(02:32):
things off It's crazy. Yeah, my Bento box actually came
off mid race because it was likeall my sweat had gone in there
and the and that little bolt wasall rusted out and like.
Oh. No.
And I'm like, I always put towels over it, you know?
And he's like, yeah, it doesn't.It's still like the sweat is

(02:53):
going through the towel. Yeah.
So whatever. The sport just gets more and
more and more and more expensive.
Oh dude, that's all it is. Well, yeah, let me ask you like
so this is your first Iron Man distance, right?
Have you done any 70 point threes before?
Yeah, I did 1. I did the Chattanooga last year
20. 20 Oh, no way. Yeah, I was.

(03:13):
I was there for that. That's funny.
Yeah. Yeah, I used to live in
Chattanooga. I live in Northern California
now, but I lived in Chattanooga from 11 to last year, 2011 to
last year. So did that was the last, right?
Yeah. I, I really, I mean, I don't
know if I'd say I enjoyed it, but I mean the run in
Chattanooga. Pretty serious.
Was the hardest thing I have ever done physically, maybe

(03:37):
mentally, in my entire life. It was harder than the marathon
was this past weekend. Wow seriously?
Just because the heat exposure like up on the on the side of
the highway. I think it was a combination of
of I wasn't, my training wasn't quite there and I had no concept

(04:00):
of nutrition at that time, and Iwas on the wrong size bike for
me. So when I got done with the bike
and my back was just destroyed and locked up and Oh my gosh, it
was rough. Yeah.
It was rough, but how much do you do you coach yourself?
Yeah. I mean, you could call it that,

(04:21):
yeah. You force yourself to do what
needs to be done. Yeah, yeah.
So, you know, that's a whole other thing where it's like, you
could there, there's no end to the investment that you can put
into this sport. Yeah.
But it's the type of thing where, you know, you start
getting into it and and I'm like, you know, but if I did get

(04:44):
that $10,000 Canyon, would that give me like 2 more mph on the
bike? You know, 2 1/2, that's totally
worth it. Get a coach, get, you know,
there's just no end to it. Yeah, there really isn't.
And you can buy speed to an extent, it's totally true.
Yeah, I've been on old bikes andthen going from a newer,

(05:06):
stiffer, better bike. It definitely makes a
difference. But what's it worth, you know,
at the end of the day? I don't know.
Well, here's the thing. This is, this is what like the
sickness has started to get in under the skin.
I mean, and I'm like, you know, I'm watching all kinds of like
YouTube videos and stuff like that and people are saying, you
know, like to it like you just said, to a certain extent you

(05:26):
can buy speed. And I'm like, I am 1000%
listening to how? Tell me how.
Send me the links. Send me the link.
I'll do it. And I'm like, you know, if I
could get that bike down, you know, if I could shave off 30
minutes off the bike, I'm like, yeah, that's worth it.
Of course. And then you back up and come

(05:47):
back to real life and you're like, this is, this is not what
you do. Yeah, man, this is who cares?
I'm like, I don't know. I know.
Nobody cares. I don't know.
I just, I'm in it now, you know?Well, what is it?
What are you in for? Like who?
Who got you into it? I guess the first question.
And then what is it that has youcoming back for more 'cause

(06:08):
you're 5 days out from Iron Marin, Arizona.
Congratulations. Thank you.
So Doctor Alan Peetz here in Nashville, TN is the one to
blame for all of this. I mean, two years ago, 2 1/2
years ago, I was there. There was no Iron Man, no Sprint

(06:32):
triathlon, nothing on the horizon at all.
I was playing tennis 5-6 days a week.
Let's go. Doing nothing but that, like I
was obsessing over tennis and had been for the past like 8
years, you know, so there was noend insight with that.
And my buddy Alan bought a new bike and you know, he's like,

(06:56):
I'm, I'm going to get into riding.
And so he did what we all do andhe's like, I'm just going to try
to get as many of my friends to buy bikes as I can.
And you know, at the time I had,I just had no interest in doing
it. It was a hard no, like he signed
up for this Sprint triathlon here in Nashville is a couple

(07:17):
months away. And I was like, no, I don't even
own a bike. I, I used to have a bike back in
the day, but I sold it years ago.
And you know, I'm not, I'm not in the I already knew how
expensive that world can be. I'm like, I'm not looking, I've
got kids. I'm like, I'm not looking for
new places to lose money, you know, and but then I was up in

(07:40):
Indiana on a holiday seeing my family and my sister had this
pretty nice bike sitting in her garage that was too small for
me. But I didn't know that at the
time. And I was like, I could borrow
that bike and I could sign up for this Sprint triathlon.
I've never done a triathlon. You know, I grew up swimming.
I run all the time. I used to bike.

(08:02):
So I'm like, maybe I could do OKat this thing.
And so I, I signed up for the Sprint, did a little bit of
training, did the Sprint. And then this is the part where
it gets hard to explain. Like you said, the disease set
in. Yeah, I don't know, Like, what

(08:24):
was it about that triathlon thatchanged everything?
It's not like, you know, I didn't win it, but I got second
in my age group. It is.
And by like 2 seconds. So then you start doing the
thing where you're like, well, if I had, you know, I was
cramping up on the run. If I maybe if I changed a little

(08:46):
something I could have shave offthose two seconds, I could have
won the thing. Even that it's like, well, no
one cares. Who cares?
I don't care. I care.
So I mean, it was like a hard turn if you could see my
recreational, you know, sport what I'm, what I'm spending my
time doing recreationally on a graph.

(09:07):
Tennis, just immediately just tennis.
Yeah. It just just goes from playing
six days a week to to 0. Wow.
And I, I signed up a friend of mine who did that Sprint on a
whim. His name's Buddy.
He was like, we should do, let'sdo another one, you know, and

(09:29):
I'm thinking, well, let's just do this one next year.
Yeah. But he's sort of of the mind of
like, Nah, we already did that. We got to do the, you know, a
bigger. Thing.
Bigger thing, yeah. So he's like, let's do Iron Man
70.3 and I'm like, I don't know what that means. 70.3 And so we
sign up for that and you know itwas a it was a terrible

(09:52):
experience It was awful like I said I mean I had no concept of
nutrition at all I just found like a old workout training
regimen from somebody who, you know, a friend of a friend and.
Pre ChatGPT days. Yeah, Knew nothing.

(10:13):
And. And again, doing it on my
sister's bike, that's too small for me.
And it was. It was one of the hardest, most
grueling, worst experiences I'veever had.
And then an hour and a half after the race, I'm like, I
think I know what I can do better next time.

(10:33):
Yeah. I don't know.
I don't know what it is. It's a disease.
Yeah. What do you find that your that
your method of operation throughlife and the way that you go
through things is this kind of relentless pursuit of self
betterment? Do you find that that translate
over to your other spheres of life?
Yeah, I mean, I, I play piano. I'm not like, you know,

(10:56):
singer-songwriter, but I've beenplaying piano for since I was
four years old. So the element of like very
slow, like, you know, meticulous, just the daily grind
of something where you're, you're seeing tiny, tiny bits of

(11:17):
improvement, you know, after a month and then another month
that that slow kind of grind at something is, has always been
baked into my existence. You know, So that aspect of it I
can, that definitely crosses over, you know, and a lot of

(11:37):
times you're doing, you're, you're spending hours and hours
alone doing something that you don't really want to do and that
you're probably not going to getexternal praise for.
And nobody will know that you made that tiny little adjustment

(11:57):
and now you can play that one little thing a little bit better
than you used to. It's like slightly more in the
pocket. It's you you've got, you can
swing, swing it a little bit like you're supposed to, you
know, those little things that that little like 1% difference
between like pretty good and nailing it that most people

(12:18):
don't even clock caring about those kinds of things is that's
like the water I swim in, you know?
Who? Who gave you that?
Is that? Or is that a nature thing?
I mean, that's an unknowable thing, but I, I think that a, a

(12:40):
big part of it is watching my older brother growing up who,
who was, he also played piano. He also swam.
He was just one of those guys that like in high school, he's
getting up at 5:00 in the morning and going downstairs and
like working out. And he's six years older than

(13:01):
me, so I would be like, you know, 8-9 years old.
I'd get up with him, go downstairs and do, you know,
crunches while he's working out.You know, I just was doing what
my older brother was doing. And if he would have been into
skateboarding, I'm sure I would have been into skateboarding,
you know, So I was just into that, whatever he was into.

(13:24):
But he was very and still is just a very self disciplined
person and everybody in my family would fall into that
category. So I think that in our family,
the McLaughlin family was just kind of, you know, an implicit
thing message that like part of life is, is doing those daily

(13:48):
little things that you don't want to do.
So doing the Iron Man then you know, you we talked a little bit
about and you said, Oh, I'm going out and you know, no one
cares or about the little training and this that the
other. But doing an Iron Man, at least
in my experience of the first time, I had a lot of family
there and lots of just like external wow factor from people.

(14:09):
What was it like from your your reception, from your family when
you finish this thing? Yeah, you know, it's funny.
I I keep saying no one cares andthere should be an asterisk next
to that. I mean, because it, I was
telling my wife Amy, it really was, was sweet how many people

(14:31):
were texting and, you know, following along on the app and
it was, it was really sweet and really encouraging, you know.
Yeah, so and, and my wife was there.
We we have two girls and they're12 and 10.
We brought them to Chattanooga last year, but we didn't bring

(14:53):
them out to Phoenix. But yeah, it was that aspect of
it was really encouraging. And it was actually really cool
seeing like being at the finish line and watch.
I could have stayed there all night just watching people
finish and seeing like their camp of friends and family go

(15:15):
crazy when they're. Chance.
To come down, you know, that it's, it's, it's a really cool
aspect of the whole environment,you know?
I'm curious really quick. This is kind of a by the way
question before I ask a little acouple more deep questions about
Iron Man, then we'll move on. But have you noticed any
difference in your ability to sing because of all of the extra

(15:38):
aerobic activity and work? Or have you already kind of
peaked out your lung capacity inprevious tests?
You know, I don't know, I I definitely noticed the lung
capacity, you know, in my swim training, I could definitely see
those gains, you know, not beingquite so, you know, in the
beginning it's like you do your flip turn and by the time I get

(16:01):
up to the surface again, I'm like dying for a breath.
So it was cool to see those gains.
I don't know that I haven't beentouring, so I'm getting ready to
tour. So you know, maybe ask me in 2
weeks and maybe I'll see a difference, I'm not sure.
Yeah, no, yeah, for sure. That's interesting.
The reason I asked that is because not a professional
singer by any stretch of the imagination, but I enjoy it and

(16:23):
playing piano and singing. But as I got into this in 2020
and started to kind of build through it, you know, five years
later now the ability to to holda note or just like project I
feel like is a bit more. So I was curious what your
expenses. Yeah.
I really haven't. That's the case for me.
I hope I see that. Game changer.
You're never going to be the same, so go sign up for.
Five more hours, then I'll be like, OK, now I do.

(16:44):
I can justify spending that 10 grand.
Exactly. Yeah, it's, it's an investment
into your professional career that's.
Exactly what you can write it off maybe?
Exactly. Actually, yeah.
So I'm curious a couple more quick questions about the Iron
Man thing. Did you learn anything about
yourself on like this very long day?

(17:04):
And the second question is what are what was your highest and
lowest moment just to like what was going on in the internals of
your brain? Well, I think maybe maybe those
the, the answer is maybe the same for both those.
Like my the moment where I felt like, I don't know if I what I

(17:30):
exactly I learned, but my low moment was on the bike.
I got got a flat tire at about mile 63.
And, you know, everybody says everyone who's done these or, or
has done marathons or any sort of an endurance sport, it's

(17:51):
always says like something is going to go wrong.
Like don't, you know, don't makea plan, but know that like
something is going to go wrong and your wet suit's going to
tear or whatever it is. So I get a flat tire, which I
hadn't, you know, all my training at Chattanooga last
year, I'd never got a flat tire.Never.

(18:12):
I'd sort of practiced changing the, the inner tube like a week
before the race just so that I could, you know, know that I
could do it. But so I'm like, OK, so this is
my moment. This is the thing like stay
calm, Just get your tools out. And you know, I, I get the, the

(18:33):
tube out, I get the new one out,I get my little pump out with
the cartridge and the cartridge doesn't work.
And so I'm in this moment. I felt like, in that moment,
that was the moment where I was like, OK, what is actually
important to me right now? Because I'm as the minutes are
ticking by and it was, I was probably stranded total for like

(18:59):
17 minutes. But like, you know, so thirteen
of those were me just sitting holding my lifeless tube and my
lifeless pump. And in that moment I'm like, OK,
so are you concerned that you, you're not going to finish for

(19:19):
yourself because you know, you can sign up for another race and
you know, you can finish this race.
Are you concerned, are you goingto be embarrassed that you have
like, and I don't exactly know what the answer was or is, but
in that moment, I, the part of me was like, I'm going to have
to tell this damn story to everybody.
Like everyone's going to be like, dude, how was the race?

(19:41):
I'm going to be like, I didn't finish.
What happened? You know, you just got to tell
that story over and over again. But, you know, thankfully
somebody stopped and then the tech came and I was so grateful
for the help and was able to getback on the road.
But, you know, in those moments,I guess you figure out what is

(20:03):
important to you, You know, and,and I think if I'm really
honest, there is an aspect of itthat is like, you know, I want
to do. I want to do well.
I want to do well for myself, but I also don't want to, you
know, let all those texts that were flooding in, all the people

(20:25):
who were encouraging you kind offeel like I don't want to let
everybody down, even though I know this is not going to ruin
anyone else's day. But there's a part of part of
you that's like, I don't know. I feel like I want to do well
for the for the community that'sbehind me.
Yeah. So that was the low point.
Obviously crossing the finish line is a high point, but other

(20:48):
than that the swim was a high point.
I just felt really, really clearminded and I felt great on the
swim. You swam pretty well then.
Well, swimming, like I said, I, I swim all growing up, so
that's, you know, I wish that the bike was my thing because

(21:08):
you know, you're on that for waylonger.
But swimming is, is never the part that I'm worried about.
Although I am a baby when it comes to cold water.
So there's a part of me that's like, I'm always, you know, I've
only done four of these now, butlike every time you get in the
cold open water, I'm the guy whocan't breathe for 10 seconds

(21:29):
where everybody else even in some races where you can't even
wear a wet suit because it's toowarm, I'm like, I still can't
breathe. It's so cold.
So once I was past that, it was probably 678 seconds of like not
being able to exhale. But once I got into my rhythm I
just felt amazing on the on the swim and I was so clear minded

(21:54):
and taking in like the the beautiful morning and it was
great. That's a beautiful man.
Well, thank you for sharing thatstory.
I did wanted to dive into that alittle bit because I know it's
super fresh five days out. All the soreness gone though, by
the way. I think so, yeah.
I was actually right before I came here to to do this, I was,

(22:14):
I was picking up a rug from a, ashop and I, I like jogged into
the store and I was like, oh, this is definitely the first
moment that I was actually able to do a light jog. 3 days ago I
would have started crying if I started to run.
Yeah, yeah, that's a beautiful thing.

(22:36):
Cool man. Well, first of all, I just want
to say after that awesome kind of intro ish thing, thank you so
much for taking the time to comeon my humble podcast.
Really appreciate it. I'm super thankful for it's
actually my aunt in law. She commented on your post and
then sent sent it to me about you about to do the Iron Man.
And I was like, oh, that's so awesome.
Somebody in the music industry doing that.

(22:58):
So yeah, thank you for coming on.
Absolutely, man. And let me say you're, you're
great at this. No.
Thank you. It's it's had I not have a
podcast of my own, maybe I wouldn't clock this, but the way
that you seemingly effortlessly go from, you know, this question
to this question and you ask great questions.

(23:20):
You're doing great. So thanks for having me on.
Yeah, thank you. No, I appreciate that.
I really do appreciate that. So my first kind of deeper
question, because I know from listening a little bit of your
dad the podcast and listening tothe the very first kind of
intro, you guys talk about number of different things.
But one aspect of the way that you talk is like you like to go
deep. So my question for you is, from

(23:41):
your perspective, who is John? That's as deep as it gets.
Hang on, I'm gonna shut these blinds here.
Yeah, you're good. Who is John?
Take all the time I. Take it back, I don't like your
questions. Good.

(24:06):
Wow man, John is someone who likes to have his wife with him
in these moments because I feel like she can answer this
question better than than John can.
We'll send her in an invite. Yeah, you know, I'm a, I'm a,

(24:28):
I'm a, I'm a dad. I'm a husband, I'm a believer.
I'm a musician, you know, I'm someone who, you know, it's sort
of an introverted, quiet extrovert who loves, you know,

(24:57):
hearing people's stories and, and can painfully, annoyingly
see both sides of, of things, I think for better or for worse.
And I do think sometimes it it is better and sometimes it is
worse, you know, Yeah, I don't know.

(25:20):
I guess that's my best attempt at that.
That's. Really good.
Well, we're going to dive in a little deeper because I want to
know about the better for worse thing because I have my own
experience of a similar, like being able to see both sides of
the aisle, I think is a gift. But depending on who you're
talking to and the and the depthof that relationship, which side
you decide to stand on and when or to present that the case of

(25:42):
which side can get you into trouble.
So I'm curious why you said for better, for worse, maybe some
examples or what does that really mean to you?
You know, this is just me, obviously this is this is just
John. Yep.
I'm going to try to refer myselfin the third person as much as
possible here forward. I feel like we think that we

(26:07):
need to to know where we land onissues more than maybe we need
to know where we land on issues.And I'm not saying that we we
need to be wishy washy. I think that there are times
where you need to take a stand on something on, on particular

(26:28):
issues or whatever. But I, I think that those times
are way fewer and further between them than we think, you
know what I mean? So I, I think that the, you
know, I can see both sides of, of lots of issues and stances.

(26:50):
And what's annoying about that is that in my head, I'm
constantly having debates with myself, you know, on anything.
It could be any issue. Like maybe I'm seeing some video
that somebody posted on Instagram where they're really
taking a hard line stance on something.

(27:11):
And I can, you know, I'm, I'm inreal time hearing what they're
saying and taking on the other side of it, sort of detest it,
you know, and then going forwardthroughout my day, as I'm
thinking about that thing, then I start to take the other side

(27:32):
of the issue. And just, you know, I'm
constantly doing that all the time.
And maybe we all are, I don't know.
But there's just so many issues that that I in my head, I'm
debating on trying to figure out, well, what is, is there
some sort of like side of this that wins out?

(27:54):
All the while, no one is ever stopping me on the street with a
microphone and a camera saying, where do you stand on this
issue, John? You know, so again, I think
that, you know, we feel like we need to have a stance on on

(28:14):
things way more than we really do.
You know, I think what matters is how to listen to people and
how to love people and how to love people that are, you know,
that live in your house and how to love people who don't live in
your country. You know all that what matters
way more. It's interesting that you say

(28:36):
that because when I was in college, I had, you know, kind
of this come to Jesus moment when I was 21.
Prior to that, I was just kind of a partier, wasn't like an
insane partier, but a partier enough to where like I was
making decisions that could havegotten me killed or in trouble.
And then after this happened, I was just kind of what you're
talking about very hard lined. Hey, guys, this is what we do.

(28:58):
This is what we do not do. And I was very a vocal about
that, made some friends, made a lot of enemies.
And now that, you know, I'm 33, thinking through that 1112 years
of difference, I think I'm more like what you're saying a lot, a
lot less quick to kind of throw out my opinion or my stance on
something. Because the older I get, the

(29:19):
more I realize the world is really not as black and white as
I thought. I think that there there are
because you said you're a believer.
So I think you may agree with this.
Like there are evident truths that stand, but how that truth
is applied to a person in time and they're through their
perspective is just, it's so hard because somebody who is
living for 20 plus years, 30 plus years, 40 plus years, they

(29:41):
have so many experiences in their past that have helped to
define what their reality is. And then if you try to, oh, you
shouldn't do this, then it's like, well, that doesn't, that
doesn't work for them because they didn't grow up that way or
they didn't see that, or they haven't even had that truth
expressed to them through someone's actions.
So it's like, well, where shouldwe stand then?
But I think also at the same time kind of what you're saying,

(30:04):
I have found that there is peacein sometimes not having to
understand. Like can I can have peace when
there's not an understanding? Yeah, I mean, I definitely, you
know, a couple years ago I started for the first time
reading through the Bible like it was a Bible in a year kind of

(30:26):
program thing. And it, it, it through, it was a
really tumultuous time. Like reading, reading it through
like the the the Bible is definitely not as black and
white as I as I thought. I mean, you can isolate black

(30:50):
and white scriptures that seem are seemingly black and white.
You take the whole thing as a whole and and learning more
about the history of the Bible itself and all that.
It's, it's complicated and, and so I have found I am in real

(31:10):
time finding my, my way through sort of this all this unknown.
And I've, I, I've found some comfort in certain parts of the
scriptures where there's, there's this one part in the
book of Proverbs where these twoverses, I can't remember 20.

(31:33):
I want to say Proverbs 24, five and six or something like that.
I could be wrong where these twoverses are side by side and they
say exactly the opposite thing. The the first verse says like
don't waste your time on fools lest they I can't remember what

(31:55):
it says they waste your time or whatever.
And then the next one it says, spend your time with fools or
debating with fools. Otherwise they'll think that
they're right or whatever. So those two verses being
intentionally side by side and saying opposite things in in
Proverbs being the book of wisdom says to me, what I take

(32:18):
from that is like, this is life.Like you're not going to there
is no one-size-fits-all for a lot of situations.
You know, you're going to have to weigh the options.
You're going to have to like usesome wisdom.
The easy thing would be we couldjust turn our minds off and read

(32:40):
the scripture that would tell you what to do in this
situation. The the harder thing would be
for us to have to use some wisdom and like really like
prayerfully, slowly, you know, consciously make a decision or

(33:02):
make our way through this messiness of life, you know?
I always wonder if that's why like large cities have so much
turmoil because with what you'resaying, every case that has ever
heard just for in a court perspective needs to be
evaluated for all of the variables that are unique to
those to that situation with those two individuals or those

(33:24):
two parties. And if you live in a small
community of 1520, I don't even even a few 100, there's enough
context and understanding between people to where you can
do that. But for the sake of like the
efficiency needed to govern sucha large group of people, a lot
of that nuance gets kind of thrown by the wayside for the
sake of we just got to get this done.

(33:45):
And I think about, you know, what you're talking about and
the Bible with Moses in the beginning when he's leading the
children of Israel out and he gets overwhelmed and he's like
Aaron and the leaders are like, hey, we got to figure something
out because you can't hear everysingle case of every single
person. So then like this structure gets
disseminated, but that that there's an evil side to that.
I think truly that like, well, what happens then is somebody's

(34:08):
going to get treated wrong or the context isn't going to be
totally there, and then it just becomes too big.
Yeah, just yeah. Well, they, they've, there was
this study done on I don't know if it was a study.
They were just looking at all these court cases and these,
these decisions throughout thousands and thousands of
cases. And they looked at when the,

(34:31):
these, these were not jury decisions.
This is like when like a judge is making a sentencing and they
looked at like when it was before lunch versus after lunch.
And they, they, they're like allthese cases that are like the,
this category of cases, they're like 500 cases.

(34:54):
They're pretty much identical. When they were made right before
lunch, when the the judges hungry, getting a little
irritated, you know, blood Sugar's getting low.
The sentences were harsher. After lunch when he or she is
eating lunch, the blood Sugar's back up.
They're feeling a little bit better.
They're they're a little more lenient.

(35:16):
Fascinating. Right.
Yeah, it makes you wonder how broken is our our systems?
That's insane. Yeah, yeah.
I want to shift gears a little bit and ask you a question that
goes back to just like your background and upbringing.
So it's going to seem overly simple, simplistic, but we'll

(35:36):
we'll get through them. Where are you from?
I'm from Anderson IN. Indiana.
Yeah. And you're in Nashville now.
Where have you been in between? Why'd you land on Nashville?
So my wife is also from Indiana by way of Phoenix and then
Dayton, OH. So we when we got married, we

(35:59):
lived in in Carmel, IN which just outside of Indianapolis for
a couple years. And then we moved to Malibu, CA,
which is totally random. There was just a house out there
that we loved that we rented fora couple years and then we moved
back to Indianapolis, which is where all our family is.
So that was that was the plan tojust live there.

(36:23):
And then we had our first daughter and I thought, I, you
know, Amy wasn't going to go on the road with the band and I
anymore, which she always had for years before that.
And I was like, I never want to leave ever again.
I just want to be home with thislittle baby.
So let's move to Nashville. I'll, I won't tour anymore and

(36:45):
I'll just write songs for other people.
That was the plan. So we moved down here 12 years
ago and I quit. You know, I, I tried doing the
songwriting thing for other people and I just, I love doing
my thing. And yeah, so I still tour, but I
I tour a lot less than I used tobefore kids came along.

(37:09):
So you said you started playing piano when you were four years
old. How long did it take before you
realized kind of internally, oh,this might be something that I
should incorporate into my dailyforever life as a profession?
I mean, I don't remember not wanting to do what I do now.
Really. Yeah, that's amazing.
That's that's a rare thing I feel like.

(37:30):
It is, yeah. I mean, there was a a minute
where like in high school where I, I was just sick of playing
piano. I wasn't.
I wasn't scoring any social points by going to my classical
piano lessons. On Thursdays a few years away.
And I just wanted to, you know, I wanted to be a doctor.

(37:51):
I was going to like get a full ride swimming scholarship
somewhere and then go to Med school.
And like, it's the most ridiculous plan ever.
But that was just a flash in thepan.
And then I got back to to music after that.
What you truly loved? Yeah.
Who? Who is responsible for getting
you on the piano at 4? Mom.

(38:13):
Dad. Both.
Well, my dad and his family, there's a lot of music in the
family. My dad's is still a musician.
At the time when, you know, I was super, super young, my dad
was playing with a band. And that's actually actually how

(38:33):
he met my mom. He was on tour with his band.
He's from Indiana, she's from Texas, and they were down in
Texas playing at a venue there. And my mom was at the show and,
and was working at the show and they met and were married six
months later. And so anyway, so music was just
all around. My brother and my sister were

(38:55):
taking piano lessons already at the time.
So But the story is we came homefrom church one day and I sat at
our piano, and I was playing theone of the hymns that we had
just sung at church a few minutes before, just kind of
sounding it out. I mean, I'm sure I wasn't

(39:15):
playing it beautifully, but so my parents were like, OK,
there's something for this. Yeah.
So. Then they got me taking lessons.
That's so cool my. Wife's pregnant.
She's going to be having our first little girl in February.
Thank you. Very amazing.

(39:36):
Yeah, so I've been. It's been cool.
Man, like playing the piano and,and, and the baby's been kicking
more like whenever she's around.So I'm like, oh, this is a real
thing here, Put these headphoneson her.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's really.
Cool to hear that that like camethrough for.
You as you started. To develop along.
Those lines and then like you said, you got to high school,

(39:56):
those social points weren't there.
I'm curious to know, were you popular in high school?
Did you like high school or are you one of those guys like no, I
don't care to ever go back to that place.
I. Really loved high school.
I mean, freshman year was tough,like 7th grade was tough and
freshman year early on was tough.

(40:17):
Like being the, you know, I justthink, and maybe this has
changed now. I, I, I don't have boys, but as
far as I've got 2 girls and, andone's in middle school, it
doesn't seem to be as, as harsh environment like bullying and

(40:38):
stuff like that, that everybody seems to be super kind and
supportive. I hope that that is the case
across the board. But you know, at the time when I
was a kid, like a little tiny little freshman, and I mean, I
was a tiny little freshman with my braces and my twig arms.
You know, I remember like walking.

(40:58):
Into Highland High School. Day one and seeing like some of
the senior guys just like looking looking like 40 year old
men you know yeah that was a little intimidating but overall,
yeah, I had a great group of friends I really loved college

(41:19):
or I mean high school, high school.
Did you also love college and. I also loved college.
Yes, yeah. Wow.
Is there any? Part of your life when growing
up where you're like, that wasn't it?
I mean, 7th grade, it was 7th grade's rough.
Yeah, it's such a rough. Time like you just.

(41:39):
Look, you know, all the boys are4 feet tall, the girls are 7
feet tall. Everyone's teeth are terrible,
There's acne everywhere. And you know, it's just such AI
just I so feel for, and I have a7th grade girl right now.
I, I just feel for the whole, all those kids going through

(42:01):
that time. It's, it's just an awkward time.
John, how tall are you? I'm 5/8.
No, you're not. Yeah.
Are you actually? Yeah, no way, dude.
So I'm 5/5 and 1/2. When I've just looked at your
stuff, I'm like, this guy's got to be 6 foot 5.
I don't know what it is, but. You're, I read tall, I guess.

(42:22):
Yeah, because a lot of people. When they see me.
In person for the first time, they're like, oh, I thought you.
I thought you were taller. Yeah.
I was like, I thought I would betaller.
OK. Yeah, yeah.
That's so funny. I mean 5-9 on a good day.
Yeah, you're staying a little taller, not as when you're more
happy. Yeah, it's interesting.
I the reason I asked that is because you're talking about
being 4 foot whatever. I was always the shortest.

(42:44):
I don't think I grew the most when I was like 23.
Oh really? And then I was done.
Yeah, like I'm 5 foot 5 and I'llclaim 1/2, but although I went
to the doctor for a check up theother day and they told me just
55 was like, huh, I need to stand up a little taller or 33
is I'm sorry you like one of those contraptions.
Where you hang upside down. Literally a little problem.

(43:05):
Anyway, 'cause I was just thinking about like high school.
I high school is such a weird time.
Did not love it. College is OK, but you know, the
being the short thing and now being older, like I, I, I love
it actually. I would never change a single
thing. But it's so hard to communicate
to a 7th grader or an eighth grader or a 9th, 10th.
But I was like, Hey, these things you're stressed about
that, buddy, Like just hold on because I know there's so much

(43:29):
more. Life after this, yeah.
You know, it's interesting though.
I did a tour a couple years ago where I was chatting with
drummer and, and I've made reference.
I said something about, you know, being short.
And he was like, you think you're short?

(43:49):
I was like, yeah. And he's like 6-2.
This guy, he's like, I don't know, you don't carry yourself
as a short guy. And I was like, and I for the
first time, I started noticing people's sort of energy.
And I thought, I thought, it's true.
There are some people who carry themselves differently and

(44:10):
there's something about the energy.
I have a a really good friend ofmine who is probably 5-6, maybe
5556. And I think he would be one of
those guys. I'm like, I don't, he doesn't
carry himself. I don't think of him as being a
shorter, like small person. He hasn't.
He has a presence to him, you know.

(44:30):
Yeah. And I don't know if that's
something that you just have or you don't have or you can kind
of like manipulate that through,you know, mental gymnastics.
I don't know, but I think you can definitely manipulate it it.
Is an interesting topic because that whole perception just for
like the physical attributes of people, you can change based on
how you relate to them. It's very interesting.

(44:51):
Seemingly aggressive or oppressive or I don't know, soft
and tender or just some people come across as like, Oh my
goodness, they're so intimidating.
Like they have this resting, like I'm going to kill something
today, you know, like it's crazy.
It is. So as you, as you started to get
into, I guess post college, you're figuring out what you're

(45:14):
going to do in life. You decide music is going to be
it. You're focusing on that.
What expectations, if any? And it sounds like maybe not
much because you had such a history with your family, but
did you carry with that new experience, any expectations
into the industry that you realize?
Like, that's not what I thought it was going to be like.
Yeah, I remember, and this is probably maybe solely attributed

(45:40):
to the fact that I grew up in, in or the, the college that I
went to, Anderson University is a small Christian private school
and it, it had a great music program and my, my piano
professor in particular, Doctor Freeling was awesome.

(46:00):
And I learned like a lot of great stuff there that I, that I
used to this day. But the, the overall vibe of
some of the classes that I had that were like talked more about
like contracts and the business side of the music business.
I, I, I, I was told like this isthere are going to be lots of

(46:23):
like wolves in sheep's clothing.It's all, and maybe it's
exclusively wolves in sheep's clothing out there.
Everyone's going to be out to get you, you know, you if, if
you 'cause I, I wanted to go into the mainstream secular or
whatever. I, I was never planning on going
the, the Christian route. And that was never my

(46:46):
experience. I have never, you know, to this
day, of all the people that I'veworked with, it's not like I'm
working with, you know, All Saints who, you know, are don't
they don't care about making money.
But yeah, I, I never encounteredthe, I don't know, nefarious

(47:08):
nature. Yeah, just it was.
Never. That was never.
The case, thankfully, but I remember that being a real
expectation for sure. I was like, OK, here we go.
We're going into the, you know, the Shark Tank and they're just
going to be they're not going tocare about anything.

(47:29):
You know, so thankfully that wasnot the case.
The only other expectation that I had was I was like I I'm going
to be I'm going to be playing stadiums, You know, just this is
going to happen. It's going to be easy square
Otter than year one. Yeah, yeah.
It it'll just be an unbroken strand of green lights from for

(47:53):
old John, you know, has that dream died?
That. Dream has, you know, it has
changed for sure. And I don't know, I think you
kind of have to have that a little bit to to some degree you
when you're young, you just havethis like blind naivete.

(48:17):
I would say that that that can work in your favor in some
situations, you know? Yeah.
I mean, you got to have it on some level just to get up on a
stage to do to sing whatever song you wrote.
There's an element of like, well, I feel like this is worth
everyone's time right now. Me getting up and and having the

(48:41):
spotlight on me for an hour and a half, that could happen.
You know, there's a there's an element of that.
But you know, now at this point in my life, and I want to be
totally honest and open like that was playing, playing arenas

(49:03):
was like that was the goal at this point in my life.
If I could, you know, if I had two buttons, a red button and a
blue button. And if I press the red button,
my catalog of stuff, John McLaughlin would just explode
and I would be playing arenas for the rest of my life or

(49:23):
whatever. But then if I pressed the the
blue button, someone else who's already playing arenas would cut
some of my songs and the, the songs would have a life of their
own. And, you know, we could benefit
financially from that. And also my, you know, the box

(49:46):
of like me being a good songwriter and all that would be
checked because they liked the song and people that the music's
out there. I would 1000% press the blue
button. I would have almost no interest
in pressing the red button. There's no part of me that wants
to. I mean, being famous is is of no

(50:07):
interest to me at all anymore. You know, you think that changed
when you had kids? Maybe.
Maybe. I mean, I was always a little
bit uncomfortable with what whatever degree of that I've
experienced, I've always felt a little uncomfortable about it.

(50:29):
I'm not the guy who wants to be the center of attention.
I mean, I'm comfortable being ona stage at a piano, but once the
show's over, there's no like, after show John time.
I'm not doing stand up in the green room, you know?
Yeah. But yeah, maybe a kids probably
altered that quite a bit. Yeah, after you do a show.

(50:54):
I'm curious, wherever you've played, small or large, someone
comes up to you afterwards and they say, John, I just want to
say, man, that was amazing. Really inspired me.
I loved that. You're such a talented player,
singer-songwriter. Do you believe them?

(51:14):
Yes, I mean, I, I, I would say at this point, I've been doing
this for like 20 years and a lotof those, those people who are
coming up after the shows, it feels so pure now.
You know what I mean? There's there's no in the

(51:37):
beginning, you know, my label iswas pushing, you know, as they
should, whatever they're they'rethey're pushing you out there
and they don't care why people are buying the music.
They don't care why people are coming.
People might be coming because you know, you know, they think
you are good looking and we're all single and like, maybe I can

(51:59):
meet him after the show, whatever.
In the beginning, it's like the muddy, the the water's a little
muddy or maybe, but now at this point, it's like they have if
they're at my shows, a lot of times they this is like their
20th show that they've been to and they have the music actually

(52:19):
means something to them. It got them through whatever
their mom died last year and andthis particular record was like
the record that they listened tothrough that time or now they
just had a daughter. And so imaginary tea is like
takes on a whole new meaning. So I do feel like that when they
say whatever they say, it feels,you know, I don't know, it feels

(52:44):
pure now. I don't know that I it's not
that I feel the same way, but I believe that they feel that.
Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
Do you have? You don't.
I'll say I'm going to make an assumption.
I don't think that you have a super strong like

(53:06):
self-confidence problem or like a super strong inner critic, but
I'm sure you do have an inner critic.
So I'm wondering what is the inner critic that you battle
with mostly say sorry, my voice.Does that make sense?
Is that a good question? Yeah.
What is? What are some of the inner
critic voices? Yeah.
The things that you have to battle.

(53:33):
You know, this is kind of shifted in the last couple
years, thankfully for the better.
But, and I don't think this is an uncommon thing amongst
artists. I think it's maybe more rare to
have the artist who is just like, I'm going to get up on
that stage and everyone's going to be freaking wowed, 'cause I'm

(53:55):
'cause I'm amazing and I'm aboutto wow them.
I think that's, I think that's more rare for, for an artist to
feel that way night after night after night.
Years ago, you know, 10 years ago, I had the outlook of like,
OK, the audience is out there, we're getting ready to go out on

(54:18):
stage. I have to win them over.
I have to like, yes, they all bought tickets and they all
came, but they, they wish they hadn't bought these tickets.
They're like, why did we do this?
And he's not good anymore. Last time was good.

(54:39):
This one, he's not doesn't soundas good as he used to.
You know, which is for me is whyhumor is so important.
It's like I can't really relax. Back in those days, I couldn't
relax until every I made them laugh because that to me felt
like that's not, that's pure, like you can if you're laughing,

(55:01):
it's, it's, it's real. You can.
You can laugh at. Something.
Involuntarily, 'cause you think it's funny, you know, you didn't
just decide to laugh. Like, of course they're going to
clap it after every song. Everybody does that.
Even if you don't think it was very good, we're all,
everybody's going to clap, you know?
But now I feel, I feel differently about it.
Now I feel like, you know, everyone, especially this stage

(55:27):
of life, you know, like I'm in my 40s to go to a concert that's
a, you know, like, babysitters are involved.
There's parking. There's like, it's very
expensive. It's like everyone there wants
to be there. And I feel that now.
And I wish I would have felt that that way, though, the whole
time. But you know, the inner critic

(55:50):
is still there. I think maybe in a, in a little
bit more of a forgiving and kindhealthy way.
But there's, I never think that I am an amazing piano player.
You know, I, I, I'm very critical of my playing.
I'm not as critical of my of my voice, which is interesting

(56:15):
because I think if you took a survey of any given audience,
most people are he's more on my voice, OK, even if they.
Think oh. He's an amazing piano player.
You know, you're just, most people are focused on The Voice
of whoever it is, whether it's Bob Dylan or or Kendrick Lamar.

(56:38):
It's like you're focusing on TheVoice.
Yeah, but I I am just more focused on the playing aspect of
it and that's where my inner critic kind of focuses.
All the criticism is on the playing side of things.
Interesting. I.

(56:59):
Lost my question and I'm only 30. 3 This is a problem.
It was such a good one. I made like a really good
mental. Hopefully it'll come back in a
minute, but along those along those lines.
You know where we were talking about.
You know, playing for arenas andpeople be like, oh, you're
amazing. I'm curious.

(57:19):
And you may not hold this belief, but something I have
observed and I'm trying to like parse out and I don't know if
there's a way to actually do this, but I feel like there's a
level where you can go and watchsomeone play, let's say any say
any artist and you're in the audience and there's a level of
admiration you'll have for that person, especially if they're,
you know, good. And then, you know, you start

(57:42):
going to 1 show, you go to two shows, three shows, 5 shows, all
their shows. You're stalking them to a level
like when does it become worshipversus just like admiration?
Do you think that there's a linein this?
Because I mean, you said you're Christian.
I'm a believer as well. When you go to church, similar
setup depending on your church Iguess.
But people up front, they're playing music, you're praising

(58:02):
God. Well, now John's up there, we're
playing his music, we're singingit, we're praising John.
Like what? What is there a line?
What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know,
when it, when it comes to, I guess some, you know, my music

(58:23):
and people out in the audience, I it kind of follows along the
lines of what I was saying earlier where like in the
beginning, maybe they're at the show for a myriad of reasons.
Now it feels a little more pure.I'm way more comfortable with
like the moments on stage that are the best are when I look out

(58:46):
onto the crowd and I'm singing and I see somebody out there and
their eyes are closed and they're singing and you can just
tell they're they're in the moment, but also somewhere else.
That to me feels pure that that I love those moments because it

(59:08):
feels like loving this song feels a little more pure than
loving me as a a personality or,you know, me as a, as a guy or
whatever. Yeah, it it just feels a little
more pure. I'm way more comfortable with
that because that's why I'm doing it.
You know, I'm not, I'm not. I mean, yes, I'm a, I'm an, I'm

(59:34):
an artist and all artists are. There's a level of insecurity
with all of us, but I mean, artists really over index in the
insecurity category. But at this point in my life, I
just want these songs to be meaningful to people.
And if they don't even know anything about me or don't care

(59:57):
that I'm up on stage, I just want to be here to hear.
Songs off of this album, I'm like, that's the best, you know,
But there is a line and I don't know.
I don't know exactly where wherethat is sometimes, but I don't.
I don't either, but I know. I, I like what you said because
I think that what I do understand is that what really

(01:00:18):
matters from the perspective we're talking about for you,
like you're the performer is like what you're doing with that
energy. I performed at small levels,
like for churches and stuff likethat.
And even in those instances, you'll have people come up to
you. Oh, that's so amazing.
You know, it's like, how do you receive that?
And I'm not saying that it should be rejected.
I think that it for a long time,I actually did believe that was

(01:00:39):
like, oh, any kind of acceptanceof affirmation is a prideful
thing. And I was like, oh, wait, that's
not true. Because if I don't have my love
cup filled for, like, offering this gift because someone else
could, like, come and help fix my roof and, like, I want to
offer them affirmation for that.If you can't accept that, then
you can't pour that off into somebody else.
So it's like, I think what happens on the internal level is
what matters most. And again, nobody knows the

(01:01:01):
heart except for God. So I'm not sure if that line
needs to be drawn. I was just curious what you
thought. Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's one of those things
where. It's like it's hard to, it's
hard to describe in words maybe where that line is, but you know
it when it's been crossed. Yeah, yeah, 100%.
So why did you choose the Christian genre?
Because you said like secular kind of whatever, right?

(01:01:22):
About life, I guess is what you thought you were going to do.
And then you landed in this vein.
Why? Yeah, the.
The Christian route, I just wasn't ever interested in it.
I just wanted to be able to. A big part of it was I want to
be able to write about anything.And I felt like, I mean, I

(01:01:45):
still, I can't say this from my own experience because I've
never been in the Christian music world, but I think it's,
it's, you're much more limited, it seems like to me.
I, I have great friends who are in the Christian space.

(01:02:07):
One of my best friends all growing up was in this band
called 10th Ave. North.
And they're a great band and I love their music.
I think if they, you know, put out a song or put out an album
where one of the songs, five of the songs are, are more love

(01:02:29):
songs, just a straight love song, I think they their label
would take issue with that. And maybe their their audience
might or might not, I don't know.
But there's definitely some parameters there and I just
wanted to be able to write aboutanything and everything you
know. Thank you for so kindly.
Correcting me there, I said thatquestion completely backwards.

(01:02:52):
Yeah, no, all good. Yeah, that.
Was very professionally done. Yeah, it's interesting.
I I would agree. Like I, I write for fun just
kind of on my own accord. But yeah, what some songs do
come out in that very like, religious context, but then
others, it's like there's a lot of emotions that I think
somebody can feel that are not attributed directly to that

(01:03:12):
singular relationship, although everything I think can be
related. You can go down that route if
you want to. So let me ask you this, because
you have some new stuff that yourecently just released, and I
assume you've got other things you're working on.
What's taking up the most mentalbandwidth for you in terms of
like your focus for what you want to write on next to write
about next? And I guess you're going on tour
soon. Tours.

(01:03:34):
Yeah. So honestly.
Yeah, I just put out an album called Scenarios, which I I'm so
happy that it's out. I worked really hard on this
album and I think it's my best album.
So I'm so glad that that's out there.
And as far as like what's takingup my mental space right now,

(01:03:56):
I'm, I'm getting ready to go outon a Christmas tour.
So it's sort of split between getting ready for that and I'm
doing a tour in the new year with a friend of mine, Ben
Rector. He's going out and playing with

(01:04:17):
all orchestras all over the degree.
That'd be cool so. I'm I'm.
Going to go with him and play with him and play some of my own
stuff. And so I'm thinking like, OK, do
I need to rewrite some orchestrations for some of these
songs? What are you know, is there a
new song that I want to do? Do I need to write some
orchestrations for that? Which takes me forever to do.

(01:04:40):
So that's where my head is. That's awesome.
Yeah, have have you? Been on.
Like tours with other artists inthe past?
I'm assuming you have. Yeah, Yeah.
Many times do you do you like that more?
Than just kind of doing your ownthing.
Or is what's the give and take? Yeah, you know, I I did, I've

(01:05:02):
done a couple times where I've done like a Co headline thing
and I love that. It feels, it always feels like
it takes the stress down to 0. You would think it would take
stress down to 50%. Somehow.
It takes it down to almost zero.Really.
Yeah. It's just more fun to

(01:05:24):
collaborate and be out on the road with friends that you love.
Yeah. You know, I've done, I've played
many, many tours where it's justme or just me and my band.
But you know, if it's just your name on the on the billing, it's
there can be a lot of pressure, you know?
Yeah, so and you said? Ben, you were from my

(01:05:46):
understanding and doing the research in 2020, you guys lived
next to each other, is that correct?
Like during COVID times, you guys got to spend some time
together? Yeah, we lived on the same.
Street for 2016 to 2022 maybe? I can't remember what Ben moved,

(01:06:07):
but yeah. And that's also the time that
you started at. Dadville, is that correct?
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Dave Barnes, who lives right across the street.
So all three of us lived on the same St.
Yeah, years. One more random question because
I'm trying to put some pieces. Together.
And did you go on tour with Ben in the past?
Yeah, back in 20. 14/20/14 Yeah.OK.

(01:06:32):
I was trying to put. Together because I went to a
concert in Boston years ago and I couldn't remember if you were
there or not. I wanted to try to find out, but
I don't think I played. I don't think I played.
Boston with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So tell. Me a bit about like the podcast,
because you've been doing this now for five years.
I want to know, you know, from episode 1-2.

(01:06:54):
I don't know how many episodes you've done now.
You don't number them, I don't think, at least on we're
somewhere around 2:50. OK, nice.
So when? That started.
What was the thought and genesisof it and then how has it
transformed as a show and how has it transformed like your
network? Like I want to hear kind of all
about it because podcasting obviously it's hoping to me.

(01:07:14):
It's taught me a ton. I've been doing it for 2 1/2
years. So not nearly as long as you
have, but were there some of thethings that, Yeah, I'll leave it
at that. So the way that it started was
was really, really simple. I mean, Dave Barnes and I, Dave
is, is another artist, very successful artist and, and I've
known him for 20 plus years and we live right across the street

(01:07:38):
from each other. We both have kids who are the
same age and a lot of times we would be hanging with the
families, like sitting on each other's porches talking about
our kids all the time and just talking about being dads.
So one day he was like, we should start a podcast called

(01:07:58):
Dadville. Would you want to do that?
And I was like, yeah, let's do it.
I mean, it was as simple as that.
Yeah. Very complicated.
Yeah, right. And so.
As far as like how it's changed,I mean the show itself, I don't
know. I mean, I, I would be really
interested to hear from our listeners who've been with us

(01:08:21):
the whole time. They're take on on sort of like
how it's evolved. I mean, maybe I'm too in the the
weeds of it to see how it's changed.
But I know from Dave and I our perspective or our approaches to
the interviews, they haven't changed in that we, we still do

(01:08:44):
a really good amount of researchfor a lot of our unless we're
having like, you know, if we haven't been rector on, for
example, he's been on a couple times, there's less research
that needs to be done because wejust know Ben and we know.
Yeah, but we've had a lot of like authors on and more experts

(01:09:05):
on and stuff like that. And we will like read their book
and really spend time on having tons of questions and sort of
like having them laid out and kind of an arc of an interview.
The, the only thing that has notchanged, the only thing that has
changed is now that is Plan B and plan A is just, let's just

(01:09:29):
start talking. And so you know, it's like you
sort of like learn all this stuff from whatever the book is
or whatever their take is. And then you try to forget it
and have a conversation. And you know, if, if we hit a
roadblock or whatever, we've gotour notes that we can go back
to. But but yeah, it's been, you

(01:09:51):
know, it's it was not as easy asI thought it was going to be in
the beginning. Like I had to realize like, oh,
this is a skill to like have a conversation, but it's also an
interview. And I want to make sure that we
get to this and also this and this.

(01:10:11):
And you ask question one and you're like, oh shoot, they just
answered in like 10 seconds, 3:00 and 5:00.
Oh yeah, how? Do I pivot because I wanted, you
know, there was something that Iwanted to say in my question,
but they've already answered that question.
So, you know, stuff like that. And it, it's been a good lesson
in like holding things loosely. Don't try to control the

(01:10:32):
conversation. It's not going to go the way you
wanted it to go. And that and it's, it's probably
more times than not, it's going to end up being something better
than what you planned. Yeah, yeah, I've.
Struggled with that myself because when I first started,
had a few, few people on who I knew.
So I had like the calm enough. And then when I started to have

(01:10:53):
on guests that I hadn't necessarily known about for very
long or haven't known really anyon any personal level.
It's like, how many questions doI take in?
And I have kind of gotten to a place where it's like, well, I
have a rough framework of what Ikind of go with.
But whenever I try to like do too much research, I try not to
because then it like takes away the natural curiosity of yeah,
yeah. How tall are you?

(01:11:14):
John, you know, like that kind. Of stuff, yeah, yeah.
But it's it's I've had a few situations where like I'm asking
a question and then they answer it way too succinctly and so
articulately that I'm just not even prepared.
But like, how do I even follow up with that?
How's the weather today? Yeah, I know, I know.

(01:11:34):
Well. That's where having a Co host
comes in handy. Yeah, Dave.
Dave is never short of words. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, you guys have a fun dynamic duo.
Like I've watched some, quite a few of your you, excuse me,
Instagram reels and stuff. And the way you guys talk about
your upcoming episodes or other stuff you're working on, I want

(01:11:54):
to guess that most of that is totally not rehearsed.
But the way that you guys banterback and forth, is it rehearsed
at all because you guys do it sowell?
It's it's like very ethical so. Dumb.
We just, you know, like one second beforehand.
And mostly it's Dave. He have some idea like, oh, oh,
we just had Tony Hale on and youknow, he's the voice of Forky

(01:12:17):
for Toy Story. So we're like, oh, let's grab
some pens and we'll do voice acting.
I mean, it's so dumb. It's not.
No, it's not. It's too dumb to be rehearsed.
That's what makes. It unique.
That's awesome. Yeah.
So what does it mean to be a dad?
Oh man, I mean it means everything changes.

(01:12:41):
It means things things get rightsized instantly.
You know, in in a really great way, it can kind of help you
deal with whatever regrets you had in life that you no longer
have those regrets. All you care about is just you
ended up here with these precious kids, so you wouldn't

(01:13:07):
change anything. All of a sudden, you know, it
really sort of like calms some whatever of that was happening
in your mind. You're like, all right, well, I
made it here. So, and then you, you start to
realize that you have to keep them alive and you start to
become a control freak. And then they get older and then
they're in middle school and yourealize how little control you,

(01:13:29):
you really have. You know, and we were actually,
we, we did a Dadville episode last night where we were talking
about this and how sometimes youcan have these moments where
your parenting can get in the way of what could be a great,
you know, conversation with yourkid because you feel like, as a

(01:13:53):
parent, like you want to, you have things that you want to
say. You have these like life lessons
that you want to impart on them.And so for me, I have realized,
oh, there's so much. I thought that I thought that I
would have these moments where Iwould say these truths to them
and they would just be like, Oh,yeah.

(01:14:14):
Yeah. And then they they would be in
their. College dorm years in the future
and they would say this to theirroommates and their roommates
would be like, wow, who said that to you?
And they'd be like, oh, my dad. He's So what?
And I'm like, that's not how it works.
They're not really listening to what I'm saying.
They're like sentence 2 is like,they're already not listening.

(01:14:36):
They're they're, they are watching like a hawk how I live
my life and how I treat Amy and how I treat our neighbors and
the mailman and like, you know, like how much time I spend doing
XY and Z and like they're watching those kinds of things.

(01:14:56):
And I mean, there's so much I could say about this because
this is definitely the season oflife that I'm in.
Same All. Yeah.
Like. There's, there's like an
approach to parenting that can be very controlling and can be

(01:15:17):
everything I just described thatI'm trying to get away from.
You know, the, the person that we were talking to last night
there, they have a podcast called the Intentional Parenting
Podcast. And the guy, Brooke, was talking
about this moment with his son and he was going to go spend the
evening with his son, who's 16. And he wanted to have all these

(01:15:41):
things he wanted to say. And he called a friend of his
who is a she specializes in likechild psychology, trauma and
separation and all that kind of stuff.
And he's like, here's what I want to say.
You know, I'm, I'm planning on kind of like touching on these
topics and this, this and this. And she was, she just listened.

(01:16:04):
And she was like, OK, why don't you not say any of those things?
It's like, I hear you don't say any of that to your son.
Just pick him up. And as you're driving in the
car, just ask him how his day isand listen.
And that's it. And he goes on to describe this

(01:16:27):
great night that he had with hisson.
And he didn't do anything. He didn't.
He just listened to be Done and eventually his son started
talking about what's going on inschool and like what's going on
socially with X whatever. And we were just talking about

(01:16:49):
how on the podcast, like parenting quote, UN quote can
sometimes get in the way of a great potential moment that you
could have with your kids because you feel like I need to
say something. I need to impart this wisdom on
them. I need to correct them in these
areas. I need to right the ship here.

(01:17:11):
And a lot of times that's we're being motivated by our own fears
as parents. I'm scared that, you know, my
daughter is going to make this mistake that I made or whatever.
I'm scared because my daughter is not on the track that I'm
familiar with whatever. And so the podcast has been

(01:17:35):
really helpful in illuminating, showing me all those ways in
which I'm really operating out of my own baggage and my own
fears. And a lot of times it's, it's a
little simpler than that, just being there, you know, it's
interesting. I've heard that.

(01:17:56):
Lesson because I've I've inquired quite a few times on
this podcast with people I've had who have kids, like what
does it mean to be a dad or a mom or how do you do this or
what advice do you have? And that one keeps coming back
up that, yeah. And when it comes down to is
just like the actions, the things that you do.
But I didn't really think about what you just said before.
Made me think of it in a new way, a light like the, the
amount of time spent doing things.

(01:18:17):
One thing I have been aware of because my, there's, I'll say
there's people in my life who have children and I've witnessed
the kids observe their parents being on their phones kind of
constantly. And for me with the podcast,
with other stuff, I do like thatthere's a level of that that is
required. So I've been trying to figure
out how to like offload some of those things to other people.
It's like small jobs here and there so that I can be less on

(01:18:38):
my phone because I think that that's going to, that would be a
huge thing. I think it makes me sad because
that one thing is I'll just say one more quick thing.
My sister, she has a six month old daughter or now six months,
but I saw her for the first timewhen she was like 3 months old
and I knew I was having a daughter.
So I got there to hang out. Hang out.
I hold this little girl for the first time and as I'm like

(01:19:00):
holding her and looking in her eyes, like, I literally almost
start crying because like, I just have this overwhelming
sense of how much it means to her that I'm looking into her
eyes. Yeah, Yeah.
And I was like, Oh my God. Like, it's even like almost
causing me to well, up now because now I'm thinking about
like how much that means from, from a father figure or a male

(01:19:21):
or really anyone probably like the mother as well, looking into
those eyes to like be seen as like such a fundamental human
desire to know that I exist. And man, I even go just one
level deeper. So my dad passed away when I was
16, and I have two younger sisters.
So I like even more and acutely aware of just having witnessed

(01:19:44):
what it was like for those girlsto go grow up without a dad.
And now getting to like, stand in that place a little bit.
It's like, like, it's overwhelming, the most beautiful
thing. But I realized, like, the
importance of what it means to be a dad.
So like, that really hit home what you said about like the
time spent, because you can spend time looking at him,
talking to him, listening to them, and they're keeping track

(01:20:04):
of everything. I mean, they're, it's, it's kind
of amazing what they observe. Yeah.
And, and dots that they connect,you know, and sometimes they'll
make an observation that you're like, Oh my gosh, that you are
totally right, you know, and youdidn't, I wasn't even aware that
you were sort of clocking any ofthat.

(01:20:25):
Yeah. Well, I'll get you on speed
dial. So whenever the little girl
starts turning around those ages, all these ages, I'm here,
man. Yeah, I'm here.
That's awesome. Well, John, thank you so much
for allowing me the time to diveinto your life and ask questions
about all of it. Really appreciate it.
I meant we'll make sure for sureto link your tour stuff, your

(01:20:48):
music, anything else that you want to be linked.
But yeah, easiest way for peopleto follow you, probably
Instagram. Yeah, probably Instagram, which
is. Just my name, which is super
easy to spell because John McLaughlin and there's no.
H in the. John and McLaughlin, good luck,
NCLA. UGHLA.
N it'll be there. Yeah, you'll figure.

(01:21:09):
Good deal. Yeah, thanks.
For having me on, man, Yeah, I really.
Appreciate it. Yeah, like when's the next Iron
Man? Yeah, that's a good question.
I did Iron Man. California 5 weeks ago I just
started doing like a run block so I'm gonna do a marathon in
January. But I I told my wife I'm gonna
cuz I usually race like four or five 6 * a year.
It's a little crazy. Like what about 6 Iron Man's?

(01:21:31):
So usually halves. And stuff I've done 3 falls, the
third one, I haven't done one since 2 years ago because
they're just such a man. They, they kill you, they can
make or break you. I've done somewhere it's like,
yeah, it's awesome. And then other ones, it's like
never doing that again. That was the most horrible
thing. So yeah, I haven't signed up for
one yet. Probably won't do a lot, but if

(01:21:53):
I do one it will be the one herethat they just are bringing to
Northern California in Redding in August.
So I'll stay active till then. So if you want to come do a hot
1 I. Don't know you got a place to
stay, The Phoenix one. Was the perfect temperature.
Yeah, and they just discontinuedit I.
Said they did. I don't know why, but bummer.

(01:22:13):
Yeah. Yeah, well, see, I'll keep you
posted on the. Next one I signed up for.
Roger that man. Cool thank.
You so much. Thanks a lot.
Thank you so much to John. For coming on the pod, really
awesome. I love having musicians on the
podcast because, yeah, it gives me the opportunity to dive into
another area of life that I really enjoy.

(01:22:34):
And music is one that plays a huge part on who I am.
Yeah. My grandmother, she used to play
and perform all growing up. My father was a drummer, my
mother is a singer, and I like doing a little bit of all of the
things. So really appreciate the time to
get to spend with John and hear about his life and how, yeah,

(01:22:57):
that kind of influences the different ways that he lives his
life from the podcast to Iron Man's to being a musician.
So yeah, thank you, John, for taking the time to also share
about your life with, yeah, yourdaughters, as you guys know who
listened to this podcast, Been talking about being pregnant for
a while with my wife and super excited to have that baby girl

(01:23:17):
here soon. It's going to either be Noel or
Haven for the first name. So it's going to be Noel Haven
Hill or Haven Noel Hill, we'll see which 180%, excuse me, 60%
of people who we asked to vote on that on Instagram said Haven
Noel Hill because it's H&H, flows up the tongue better.
Anyway, I'm rambling, thanks forlistening, appreciate you guys.

(01:23:38):
We'll catch you in the next one.Peace.

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#199 - Jon McLaughlin, Professional Singer-Songwriter - Music, Fatherhood & Finishing His First Ironman

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#199 - Jon McLaughlin, Professional Singer-Songwriter - Music, Fatherhood & Finishing His First Ironman