After 20 years as a professional triathlete, Josh Amberger is stepping up to the start line one last time—PatagonMan XTri—his final race as a pro and maybe ever. In this round-two conversation, I get to hear Josh open up in a way he never has publicly about what it means for him to close the chapter on the only life he’s known since he was a teenager.
We talk about the emotion of letting go, why he chose Patagonia Man as his farewell, the relief and grief wrapped up in retirement, the changing landscape of elite sport, the beauty of racing for experience rather than results, and what life after triathlon might look like for him—from gravel racing to rediscovering creativity to supporting Ash as she chases her own career.
It’s a raw, honest conversation about transition, identity, and what happens when you stop just doing the thing…and finally let yourself feel it.
Josh’s IG: https://www.instagram.com/josh_amberger/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
How's it going everybody? Welcome back to another edition
of the Stupid Questions podcast.Today on the pod going to be
talking with Josh Amberger. This is his round two interview
and he is stepping into a new phase of life saying goodbye to
professional triathlon. By the time this airs, he will
just have raced. The Patagonia man tried to kind
of cap off the professional season of racing for him, which
(00:23):
is 20 years long. Great conversation.
Even in the beginning there as he's talking about this, you can
kind of hear some of the cracks in the voice and just know how
much this means to him. And I think it's a really
special conversation because I think often too many times in
life we push probably a little bit too long in certain things
and don't know how to quit, especially in the high
performance world. Anyway, that's a hot take, but I
(00:46):
just really enjoyed this conversation and found a lot of
value in it, even teared up a few times myself.
So I hope you enjoyed as much. If you want to follow Josh,
check out the show notes for allthat different stuff.
I'll make sure to link it there.Wherever you're listening or
watching. If you could like, comment,
subscribe, all of that helps to continue to grow the podcast.
Thank you guys so much for beinghere.
And without further ado, I want to introduce you to this round
two conversation with Josh Amberger.
(01:11):
Where are you at right now? Hey buddy, Yeah, so I'm in Koi
Haiki, which is in Patagonia in Chile.
And yeah, I'm just sitting in myhotel room in sine view up here
in the mountain and the green. There's like a still some snow
(01:31):
on the mountains up there. We've got some sunshine today.
So, yeah, second day here and it's been a mixed bag every day
from freezing cold to rain to sunshine, just sort of getting
to know the place and where we are in Koi high key.
It's probably about halfway through the bike leg of the
(01:55):
Pentagon man extreme try. So that's, that's what we're
here to do. So yeah, the the the race
doesn't start or finish here. It just passes through.
It's a very long point to point race and kind of getting a head
around the the logistics for it is is quite an intense, but I
think we'll get there eventually.
(02:16):
Yeah, you have people occurring for you.
Yeah, so I got my my best mate from from high school, He's he's
come here Anthony. We did try for many years.
So yeah, I flew him over from from Melbourne to join me.
So we're both like crazy jet lagged.
(02:37):
So yeah, I think that's working out for us so far.
Yeah, no kidding. So you're you're there.
You've got the race coming up and you got your buddy Croon for
you. Like you said, jet lag is a very
real thing. The logistics of it all.
Where are your nerves at for this compared to like Because
you've raised a ton obviously. Right, I'm like super chill.
I've hardly hardly done any training this week.
(03:00):
So I'm also recovering from I'm in 70.3 Vol Divya, which is
actually took me almost a full day of travel just to get here
and it's you know, not too far north in Chile.
So, so I've got that, that race on my legs, plus a huge after
party and not not much sleep. So have hardly done any any
(03:22):
training. But that's that's fine.
That's that's where we're at. We're here for here for fun.
That's why I want to do this race as a different experience
to what I'm used to on the the elite circuit where everything
is, is like cut throat. It's brutal.
(03:44):
You have to be doing everything right if you want to stand a
chance. And for me in this race, it's
it's like just about experience.So I'm not stressed about
getting workouts in. I've actually probably been
eating too much dessert every night.
I figure if there's a race you want to be carrying some extra
(04:04):
fat for, it's this one because you can get pretty cold, the
water's freezing. So yeah, I mean, it's, it's been
a relaxed week and and I just want to soak it all up so.
Yeah, well, why? Why are you racing it?
Yes, I this is actually my finaltriathlon as a professional and
(04:25):
perhaps ever. I'm not really sure about that,
but it's definitely, definitely the the end of my triathlon
career finishes here in Paragon Man.
So it's something I'm like really excited about and I've
kind of been planning this race as the as the last one for some
years. I had a meeting with the team
(04:47):
here at the Pentagon Man X try earlier in 2023 and they were
like, I guess I think Ben Hoffman referred me as an
athlete they should check out, but maybe they are.
They also saw this was sort of up my alley, this sort of
adventure stuff. So ever since then I've been
(05:08):
chatting to them and basically have in my in my mind this was
always going to be the one, you know, the last one.
And earlier earlier in the year I did, I mean Cairns in June and
put everything into the prep, did everything right.
Wanted to chase one final good Iron Man on the professional
(05:33):
circuit and came up short and had like a really bad race.
And it was in that time that I decided OK, like, yeah, my
body's not really responding to to the training for Iron Man,
let alone like the new racing dynamic and where the where the
levels going with, you know, seven hour 30 performances on
(05:54):
the rig. So, so, yeah, like at that time,
I, I, I texted the Paragon main crew and I said it's, it's the
year this it's happening. So yeah, it's, it's just been
amazing to, to, to know that there's something fun like this
waiting for me at the end. And it's totally my decision.
(06:17):
And it's, it hasn't come out come with like without a lot of
emotion and a lot of, a lot of thought and a lot of like, even
on the flight over here, I was getting quite emotional, like
thinking it's, you know, this isit.
This the last ones say ones because I still had the 70.3 in
(06:40):
front of me. Oh my God, I, I love what I do.
It's, it's insane. Like even just where I'm going
now, it's my first time to SouthAmerica.
That's kind of the other reason why I'm here is it's the last
continent for me to check off a race everywhere else.
I don't think a triathlon existsin Antarctica.
So yeah, not yet the the extremetries on the up, I think.
(07:00):
But yes, it's the last continentI'm I'm here to check off and I
just I love everything about what I do.
The the travel, the people I made like the the anticipation
of building for something big. It's it like fills me with a lot
of a lot of excitement and joy and, and also like nostalgia
(07:22):
looking back at my career. So yeah, I was getting quite
emotional on the flight and it'slike, God, maybe I've got
another year in me, you know, like I think I do.
That's that's the thing. My body, my body's good.
My body's not breaking down. So many guys have to pull up
their career because they just can't, can't do the training and
(07:43):
their body's not letting them made.
I've got well over 100 professional races in my legs,
100 of them being Iron Man or 70.3 races.
But it's not my body that's failing me.
But I, I think I, I don't, I, well, I just, I don't want to, I
don't want to leave it too long.I don't want to.
(08:05):
Some guys leave it too long and they, they walk away with
resentment. I was even chatting to to Mark
Allen was Mark Allen was a special guest in Valdivia on the
weekend, which was really cool. And I spoke to him briefly and I
(08:26):
was like asked him what age he was when he retired, he was 38.
And he said he thought he could have kept going, but was really
glad he didn't because if all the guys he knew that he was
racing against that pushed it too long, trash their body,
they're really paying for payingfor that later in life.
(08:47):
So he said he's done more, more travel, more events, busiest
schedule, really enjoying life into his 60s.
Correct me if I'm wrong there, but I mean, who doesn't want to
be like Mark Allen when they're older?
You know, he's he's he's full ofit.
He's like, he's got so much energy.
(09:09):
So that that was like really, really, really good.
Reassuring to hear that. And I've had yeah, 20, this is
my 20th, 20th year. I did five years of elite racing
on the draft legal circuit and 15 years professional Iron Man
and 70.3. So that's a full career.
And that's back-to-back seasons every year, every year, every
(09:33):
year. It's and that's also why I'm
happy to to now close the chapter because I've done
everything I can in that time toto achieve my potential to make
the most of my talents and so much work that goes into it. 3
(09:59):
sports. It's insane.
I think this is the first year where I've really taken a, I
wouldn't say a backseat, but looked looked at my training and
look at look at what I do in therear view mirror.
And it's been like, damn, like being on your game for three
(10:19):
sports is inside. And yeah, so yeah, I'm happy to
to leave it there after this one, Yeah.
Yeah, no kidding man. Why I can even sense if I'm not
incorrect. Like a little bit of just like
the fluctuation in your voices you're talking about, like there
(10:39):
seems to be a good bit of emotion involved in this.
When's. I mean, I guess it's probably
been relatively soon, but when'sthe last time you cried?
Oh. My probably the night before the
race on the weekend, just chatting to Ash and just, yeah,
just, I don't know, going over things with Ash, like realize it
(11:04):
basically, like realizing it wasthe last one.
And I think that's a good thing that like, I can be emotional
about it because, I mean, it means something, you know, if I.
Yeah, if I, if I was burned out and I didn't give a shit, it
would be, you know, I'm it. Yeah.
Yeah. Like you wouldn't get upset
(11:24):
about it, but yeah, it is. It is.
Yeah. Just think about all the
experiences over the years and it's, yeah, it's irreplaceable.
It's like it's insanely hard. What we do as triathletes and as
professionals is on another level, of course.
(11:46):
But yeah, that's the other thingis getting ready for races is so
demanding. I think part of my my chat with
Ash and having a good cry on thephone was almost as well a sense
of relief that like everything that goes into pre race I won't
(12:11):
have to do that anymore. So.
Yeah, you can breathe a little. Yeah, I think so.
And I love, I love triathlon from the sidelines as well.
Obviously Ash, my wife is, she'sstill got a lot more and she's
never done an Ironman and she's got all that ahead of her to
(12:31):
enjoy. So I'm really looking forward to
looking at the sport from from anew perspective as a non
competitor. So yeah.
Yeah, man. How do you think it'll change
the dynamic of your relationshipnow that you can offer that
level of support that maybe you haven't been able to in the
(12:51):
past? Well, Ash wants me to still swim
with her, but that's one thing that I want to definitely take a
break from. I I do all her swimming
programming. Yeah, I'm her number one partner
in the pool. So I've told her I'm taking a
break from swimming. So I think she understands that,
(13:13):
but, you know, she'd rather me be there for the hard yards.
So, yeah, she can't expect me tocome to the pool anymore.
So I don't know, maybe she understands.
But, you know, maybe jokingly, there'll be some friction there
when she really needs some company to go to the pool.
But I think we've just always been so supportive of each
(13:35):
other. And then what we're doing, Like
she she's not here with me to celebrate this occasion.
I, I asked her to come, but she's so committed with what
she's doing in her own professional career.
Obviously has 2100 Qatar next weekend or, or this weekend,
depending when we publish this. So it's not, it's not possible
(13:59):
to, to be in South America and then the Middle East the next
week and expect to, to, to rise.Well, you know, she's knocking
on the podium for the two 100. So it's, it's like it's
something that we've always dealt with in our careers is
respecting each other's goals and, and where we want to, where
(14:21):
we want to take out our careers and, and what's important to us.
And yeah, it's, it doesn't mean that we don't support each other
though. And I think she's, she's
definitely going through a toughtime not being here.
Likewise, Yeah, of course. I mean, what?
(14:43):
Yeah, like she would love to be here, but it's her professional
commitment is is too great. And likewise, I would love to be
at home prepping her for for herbiggest race of the year, but I
can't do that as well. So obviously with one of us
stepping away from the sport, it's going to be, I guess much
(15:07):
better in the yeah, I'll be basically 100% dedicated to her
preparation and her races. So that's that's going to be
awesome. Yeah, Yeah, that's interesting.
Like, I don't think that gets talked about enough because
there's quite a few professionaltriathlon couples and the
(15:27):
dynamic and the balance you haveto do, you know, like you said
in our previous conversation, and even you're alluding to this
fact now that triathlon has shaped literally every part of
your life for so long. I think you were six years old
when you started doing stuff, maybe in the pool, if I'm not
mistaken. And you've been racing and being
a part of triathlon for 20 years.
You're 36. So more than half your life has
(15:48):
been wrapped in this identity. Is there any part of yourself
that you're afraid might disappear now that you're kind
of stepping away from this world?
That's a good question. That's 2020 professional years.
I've just, I've been racing triathlon for over 25.
If I consider coming up through the age group ranks before I, I
(16:10):
got my pro cards. So yeah, it's a massive chunk.
And before that I was racing in the pool as a, as a young
swimmer. So I don't necessarily see my
identity as a triathlete. If I factor in my swimming, my
(16:31):
swimming career, or, you know, when I was racing in the pool,
it's, it's my, my identity is more as a racer and, and a
competitor. And of course, like triathlon
has totally shaped my, my adult life and who my friends are and,
and, and you know, how I earn a living and everything.
(16:52):
But first and foremost, like, I just love racing.
And that's still something that I'm going to enjoy in the years
to come. And I've, I've definitely got my
eyes on certain challenges. So, but I, it's just going to be
for one sport at a time, not 3. So, so as like a bit of a soft
(17:16):
launch. I've already got a spot for
Unbound XL in, in June next year.
So one of the most hectic gravelraces in the US, if not the
world, I guess, like the de facto gravel world champs in
some ways. I'm not doing that as a
professional, but it, it will bea pursuit for sure.
(17:40):
And it's something that I reallywant to get stuck into.
And it's also reflective of why I'm doing Pentagon Man is
because I really enjoy to, to chase challenges and adventure
and professional triathlon is, is definitely those things, but
in a different sense. And it's very, it's very elite.
(18:03):
It's, you know, it's a totally different ball game to doing
something like Pentagon Man or Unbound XL, where sometimes it
can just be you against the clock.
But I'm definitely really keen to still get stuck into some
racing next year. I've also got my sights, unlike
the UCI Gravel World Champs, which is in Australia, so I have
(18:25):
to qualify for that. And yeah, I'm just I'm really
excited to to keep racing, just at a different level and a
different format. Yeah.
Well, what are you going to do when and if, and I kind of think
more when you find yourself likein a competitive place where you
could potentially stick around some of the higher end elite
(18:48):
level, like professional gravel racers and stuff.
Like are you going to consider yourself and allow yourself to
go down that path or is it you're going to keep it?
No, I'm not professional. I'm doing this because I want to
do it. I yeah, I think it's that I
mean, I'm under no illusions that I'm going to be able to
compete with professional cyclists and, you know, gravel
racing is full of, you know, current or former professional
(19:11):
cyclists, probably even chasing the same thing as I just like to
extend that, that, you know, period of competitiveness.
Yeah, like those experiences. I think I definitely do.
I I'm still very fortunate to toenjoy some of my sponsorships
(19:31):
going into this period. So I'm really lucky to to still
be riding Scott and SRAM and wearing win and, and no, no.
So yeah, I've, I've had this conversation with all my
partners and they're super excited to keep supporting me.
So that feels amazing. But yeah, definitely it's, I
(19:55):
think Ash would probably kill meif I decided I was going to to
really pursue cycling because it's really not.
It's no different. The time commitment is no
different to triathlon. Those professional cyclists are
riding 25 hours a week plus, youknow.
I have a couple of them as my friends in Europe.
(20:16):
And so I finish. It's really just definitely a
passion for me and it's a sport that I've really enjoyed the
last five years, particularly toto bring balance.
And I'm talking about like gravel, you know, off road bike
packing, general adventure on two wheels is something that I
(20:40):
think's really helped me keep balance as a triathlete and keep
me dedicated to the sport because I do have this outlet
that I really enjoy on easy rides on off seasons.
It's yeah, it's just an amazing thing, particularly where we
(21:02):
live in Australia, our options to ride off road are really good
and something that definitely inspires me to sort of pursue
more challenges in that area. You mentioned last time too that
like you know, some of your longbike rides, especially more the
Zone 2 ones, you get out for four hours, that they're almost
like a spiritual experience. Do you think that you'll be
(21:24):
chasing more of that since you'll have less focus on, I
guess just, OK, I got to be at the top end and hit all these
markers and hit these power numbers and hit this time and
this time and arrow and blah, blah, blah.
You think you'll be chasing moreof that?
Oh 100%, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's definitely what
I've been chasing anyway, is experiences.
(21:48):
Swim back and run. You can, if you're creative with
your training, you can get all the hard work done without
worrying too much about the data.
Of course, like that's probably not going to put you in the top
1% of the competitors. But yeah, for me, that's
definitely been the balance set that I've had to find to train
(22:12):
in places that definitely inspire me to to do the the
work. Like I can't just sit on the
trainer like a robot every rod. It's just not possible for me.
Yeah. And yeah, like I, I am super
pumped. Like part of the the thing that
(22:35):
like I don't enjoy about training for triathlon is like
if you're riding or running thatmorning, you have a swim in the
afternoon, you go to the pool and cut off and you just feel
like shit. Like I don't actually feel like
I, I still swim well, I, I stilllike and leading out races, but
I don't actually go to the pool and feel great because I'm just
(22:56):
tanked from Viking and running so and, and vice versa,
running's traditionally been a weakness for me As for my whole
career. And there's really been like
very few times where you've feltamazing and like the, the, the
swimming and cycling is not likeit's adding to your running and
(23:17):
not taking away. So yeah, it'll be fun to just do
1 sport for a bit and feel that freshness.
Like I joined a yard for Dino inindoor this year and I told him
that I was retiring and he's just like for two years.
You'll be, you'll be good. You won't have to do much
(23:37):
training. You'll go out every day and
you'll feel amazing because you'll just have that freshness
that you don't have as a triathlete.
So yeah. But it will obviously carry all
carries a lot of fitness for a long time.
It's I've been training all my life, so I don't expect to be a
(23:59):
BLOB on the couch within like a couple months.
But yeah, definitely enjoying toto more of that fresh feeling
when I'm training. So you mentioned Jan, you
mentioned Mark Allen. Are these the only or their
other mentors or people that you've been kind of looking to
for not necessarily emulation, but inspiration for how you're
going to carry out, you know, even beyond the two years for
(24:21):
what life looks like for Josh after this?
I think I haven't looked so muchat what other triathletes are
doing. I, I've told quite a number of
athletes that that I'm retiring.Some of them want to
(24:41):
congratulate me straight away. It's actually really interesting
like gauging reactions to to retirement because some people
straight up want to shake your hand and say congratulations and
then some others don't say anything.
They maybe almost think that it's like a weird thing, I guess
maybe it's just something they've never contemplated
(25:02):
before because they're so young in their careers.
But it's, yeah, I haven't reallybeen looking too many
triathletes to see what they're doing post retirement.
I just, I, I quite enjoy to follow athletes doing different
things from like, you know, justbike Packers or artists that
(25:26):
like to ride bikes and express their creativity through what
they do on two wheels. I guess someone like Heather
Jackson's been like pretty badass to, to see what she's
getting up to. I would go as far as saying that
she's definitely my inspiration to do Unbound XL.
(25:47):
Seeing, seeing her win that lastyear was, was just sick.
So I'm like, I saw that and I was like, OK, that's what I want
to do. Yeah.
There's there's the competitive spirit.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So, yeah, I'm sure like there's,
there's probably definitely somesome things that don't come to
mind right now. But yeah, I do really enjoy like
(26:09):
seeing what some people are up to and some athletes have dived
straight into to business, you know, like I'm here with Ali
Brownlee and we were sitting at breakfast yesterday.
He's got his laptop in front of him and he's on his phone and
like he's, yeah, he's just like straight up business now.
And I think that's that's his competitiveness in in sport.
(26:34):
And he was honestly like the most competitive person or like
one of you know, we've mentionedCodino and like those guys that
the Olympic gold medallist, theyare like their life is
competition. And that's I could really say
that that just you know, that that switches flicked in in Ali
(26:57):
and he's but I don't see myself like I do have aspirations for
business in the future. But as far as say the short term
in the next 12 months, I kind ofjust want to have a gap year.
It's very traditional for for Australians to to travel and to
to to enjoy themselves, to let their hair down after high
(27:19):
school or at some point in thereyoung adult life.
And that's something that I've never really been allowed to do
because I've been so career driven.
And it's definitely something that I'm looking forward to to
enjoying is just not waking up without, you know, this crazy
(27:41):
goal that you have to work towards just little micro goals,
I think for for a short period of time.
And also really enjoying supporting Ash in her pursuit.
I I just have to stop you for a second because my, he he's
knocking on the door. Here you go.
This. Are we back on?
(28:01):
Yeah, yeah, we're still good. Just got the delivery the
official beer of Pentagon man nice for 2025.
So we're actually at this brewery house last night,
Dolbec. So it's like a local brewery
here in in Koi Haiki. So yeah, the week looks
promising from a A as a beer enthusiast, I would say.
(28:27):
That's so cool. So as the bar like for your
ability to be competitive, you know, as we get older like it
goes, it goes down. Do you think that that will
hinder your competitive spirit and drive from an athletic
standpoint? I don't think so because I love
(28:49):
riding with masters cyclists at home in Australia every year.
I typically at the end of the year, I do, I, I call it the
annual punters ride. So I go go ride with a bunch of
dudes in their 40s, forties, 50sand pull turns with them.
(29:09):
And sometimes I can I, I almost have to check myself and wonder
how I'm a pro athlete when I've got like these dudes, these
masters cyclists that have have 10 or 15 years.
I'm a like putting me to the sword.
And so it's funny, like I say, these guys that they just they
(29:31):
love training and they love, they love pushing themselves.
And that's the that's the spiritwe have in sport is like going
toe to toe. It could even be against your
best mate, but just that feelingof you pushing your limits, like
that's something that I don't think is going to be lost on me
because like I've said, it's it's been my whole life.
(29:55):
I started first dive in the pooland race 25 meters when I was 5
or 6 years old. Like, and that, that drive to to
achieve my potential is definitely what's what's kept me
in the sport and I don't and racing as a professional yeah, I
(30:16):
don't see that dissolving anytime soon yeah and I, I, I
feel like I, I just I love, I also love achieving my
potential. Getting to that point where you,
you see the results from your work, whether that whether
that's a race win or you know, a, a top five on the weekend in
(30:40):
Baldivia, I was top five. I really wanted one more podium
to finish off my career. But the the performance that I
had for 5th place there for me was incredible.
And I I absolutely was on the limit the whole race and pushed
(31:00):
myself to a point that I thoughtmight not be possible.
Knowing that it was the last one.
Having committed to the finish, there could be a tendency to
just who cares, you know, I willjust get it done.
But yeah, I was able to, to justgo Max and yeah, and I'm just
(31:20):
finished, not with the podium, but feeling so satisfied that I
executed on that day. And, you know, I made the most
of of the work that I've done this year, of all the work I've
I've put before me as my time asa as a professional.
And that that those aspects of sport are are extremely
(31:41):
rewarding. Yeah, yeah, It's so interesting.
I wish that I was there to witness you doing the Patagonia
man, because I feel like becauseyou know, this is your last one,
your your threshold for like theceiling of your potential.
Because knowing this last one, like I think mental, you could
probably push yourself to a place maybe you haven't before.
(32:02):
But also in the same regard, because it is the last one, if
you got into a really dark place, the floor of just like
the depths of despair that you could potentially feel are also
equally as extreme. So it's like, I would love to,
is someone following you? I wish there was like some kind
of a documentary thing that you could.
Yeah, So I, I, before I talk about that, I would say that I
(32:25):
think you're right on the money.I don't know what is going to
happen on Sunday. I don't know if I'm going to be
locked in a battle with Ali and,you know, be like a dog with a
bone or I don't know if I'm going to be solo myself all day,
like if the weather shit just suffering or if that suffering
(32:49):
is what drives me to to see out the challenge.
Like it's it's kind of quite exciting to to to think that I
don't know what lies ahead. There's so few times we step
onto a race course as a professional, not having study
the course in the competition. Whereas here it's it's point to
(33:11):
point, it's 226 K one way to theother through through the
mountains, through the fjords. And there's going to be a lot of
that time where I'm going to be by myself, the my crew man
Anthony, he will. So the the rule is you can
(33:33):
receive as much support as possible during the race as long
as they can pull their car off all four wheels off the road.
So that he can stop as often as I need him to to whatever it is,
swap out gear, grab some carbs, fix a flat.
I won't obviously be able to communicate with him, but just
(33:56):
him leapfrogging me every 10 kilometers or so should give
like quite a, a good opportunityto, to have assistance.
But then once you hit the run, it's the run is extremely
remote. It's there's 38 stations,
10K20K30K. So you obviously have to take
(34:17):
what you need to get yourself between those eight stations.
There's parts of those are like single trail, like go track to,
to nice open planes. It's all off road.
And then there's also Deep Rivercrossings where you know, it's
recommended to to take your shoes off and you're like chase
(34:40):
chest hot crossing a a freezing cold river.
So, but once you hit that 30K marker, your crew man has the
choice to be there waiting for you and then they can run the
last 12 K with you. So he, Anthony, he, he was a, a
professional as well, but not sonot so fast these days in, in
(35:05):
corporate life. So he's been under the pump to,
to get some fitness to run with me for the end.
Unfortunately for him that that last 12K is net downhill.
So we suffer all the elevation in the first part of the, of the
run. And then my legs, my quads are
probably going to be shot. Well, he's going to be a bit
(35:25):
fresher than me. So yeah, it's the fear, the
thought to have, you know, my best mate running with me for
those last kilometres is also like, it's nice.
It's definitely a nice thought. You're.
Going to be crying, I think. I think you're going to be in
tears and I wish I was there to.Yeah, probably.
(35:46):
Yeah. And like, I haven't, I haven't
really indulged too much in watching the race documentaries.
They produce a documentary and they're doing some stuff on me
for this year. So that answers your other
question. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
I haven't. I haven't indulged too much.
I haven't learned all there is to know about the course because
(36:06):
I want it to be a raw experienceon the day.
Yeah, exactly. But it's hard to to not watch
the finish line experience that athletes have at this race and
and not be moved. So it's just you.
Yeah. You run up.
So I forget the name of the town, but you cresting this
(36:30):
hill, there's a bell, you ring the bell, you're done.
And yeah, the like, I don't know.
It's just a it's AI think it's it.
It looks like a very pure experience.
And the Ignacio, the the organizers there to to greet you
with your medal. And there's like not a person
(36:52):
that you'll see not finish the race and be moved.
And that's the that's the real attraction for me for this race
is it's, it's not about a time, like it's not about a result,
it's about a feeling. And if I finish with a race like
this, there's no chance to finish feeling disappointed or
(37:17):
in some way like I didn't achieve what I wanted to.
So yeah, that's my other attraction for for something
like an extreme try, yeah, finishing with a feeling.
Well, I'm imagining, I'm trying to imagine you at 16 years old
doing your first professional race, crossing the start line
(37:37):
and I and I don't know, I doubt that's on film, but then
transitioning to you finishing this race about to ring the bell
like that, that entire timeline,like because like this, this
finish line to you is much more obviously than just the
Patagonia, man. It's literally like your past 20
years. And as I was thinking about that
instance, like 16 year old Josh,36 year old Josh is actually
(38:00):
like bringing tears to my eyes because I'm thinking I'm just
like, that's such a long period of time and dedication to one
particular thing. I had a hard time finishing
college, let alone doing 20 years in a professional sport.
So I'm stoked for you. Yeah, thanks buddy.
I think the 16 year old Josh probably not too different to
(38:22):
this version Josh, but just witha probably like a lot more
attitude more a little. More hair.
On your chest 16 Josh didn't take much shit and was happy to
to voice his opinion to anyone that did or didn't want to hear
(38:42):
it. So I'm, I'm much more Alan, have
a lot more, yeah, a lot more, a lot more life experience under
my belt. But definitely me at at that
age, it was a very raw thing, you know, racing.
I did a lot of sport in high school.
(39:02):
I went to to extremely sporty private high school where we
really had the opportunity to, to do, to do as much sport and,
and racing as we could possibly do.
And that definitely shaped me into, into adult life, as you
know, as a racer, just yeah, I, I just frothed it every, no
(39:29):
matter what the sport was like, I wanted to, to, to, to do well
at it. And yeah, chase that feeling of
pushing your limits. So yeah, it's it's special.
If you had the ability to sit down with your 16 year old self
knowing what the dreams and aspirations that you had at that
(39:50):
time and you had the ability to give the the future like to
know, OK, to tell your 16th selfself, this is where you're going
to go. This is where you're going to
achieve. This is what you're not going to
achieve. Would you tell yourself what
happened? I don't think so.
(40:12):
It's funny when when I was actually when I was that age.
So to, to give you an idea of what my attitude was like as a
16 year old, I didn't want to betold what to do.
I always wanted to be doing something different.
And when all my mates used to ask me if I was going to be a
professional athlete, I'd tell him to.
(40:34):
It's not like fuck off. There's no way, mate.
There's I'm not doing that because it always seemed like
written out for me that that wasthe path.
But I just to be, to be different.
I didn't want it, which sounds crazy.
But of course, now I, I'm, I express my differences in many
(40:59):
other ways rather than being a contrarian.
So it's actually, yeah, it's funny to look back on.
I didn't want a professional sports career.
I, I when I was 16, you're 16. I literally wanted to be a ski
bomb and that was it. So I.
(41:21):
Feel like you've done that well as well.
Yeah. But yeah, I don't know.
I think the, the serious answer to that question would be, do
you like you don't want to ever take your, you don't want to
almost know what's coming because it could take away from
(41:41):
the experience and feeling, feeling things in the moment to
talk more about when I was my last year of high school, I gave
a speech as the cross country captain.
And one of my lines in that speech is something I've always
(42:02):
tried to remember and live by. And it was like to not just do
something, but to feel it. And that, that was the spirit
of, of our cross country team and all the runners running.
You know, it's a, it's a very pure and spiritual sport or
experience, or it can allow you to have very spiritual
experiences. And and that was the thing I'd
(42:24):
I'd said to my team like don't just, but before our biggest
competition in the year was don't just like do it, like feel
it. And yeah, I feel like I've lived
by that so. Yeah, yeah.
I was going to ask you, like, doyou feel like you got where you
wanted to go? And it sounds like even though
maybe there's some of the, I don't know, the actual
(42:47):
accolades, like maybe you didn'tquite get to those and I could
be wrong. But in terms of the richness and
fulfillment, to be able to say like you were what you were
saying earlier, to feel it, but to walk away and cry and, and
like mourn because you really, it's like you're putting down
your a dog or something. I don't know.
It's like you're putting to death this part of your life
that has been a very cherished, protected thing.
(43:11):
And so I'd say you're doing pretty good.
Like you feel it. Yeah, definitely.
Yeah. I mean, I, I was, I didn't, if
I'm being honest, I didn't really hit my goals, competitive
goals. I want to to win a world title.
I wanted to win more Iron Man's.I didn't in the end achieve
(43:33):
those things. I got close, but it really
doesn't bother me because I, I, I, I, I made the absolute most
of of my talent that I have. And at the end I look back and I
(43:53):
won a lot of races. I won 1170 point threes, for
instance. I won 11 Iron Man unofficially
one another. But it doesn't really matter
because I, I made the most of ofwhat I had.
So it's like what I'm like, really proud of.
(44:13):
Yeah, I think I asked you before, and I can't remember
exactly what you said, but I kind of want to just ask this
question off the cuff. Is like, do you believe in God
yet? Because if not, I feel like
after you do this Patagonia man,you might be a little closer.
My answer is not different to our last chat.
(44:34):
Yeah, it's I'm still happy with where I'm at.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, you know, we talked a littlebit previously around those
topics. We were talking about the other
creative outlets that you have, obviously listening to music you
gave up playing in bands and stuff to kind of pursue this
(44:54):
professional life. So now that you're kind of
moving into this next stage of life, obviously you're still
going to be active. Do you want to reclaim any of
those past creative outlets? Yeah, definitely.
Like it's something I I think about all the time.
Like I don't want to be some like some old rocker, but who
(45:16):
knows, it could happen. You can't, you can't, you can't
hold it, hold it back. If if something's like wants to
come out from from inside you. One of the things I'm I'm really
looking forward to is just having more energy for for other
pursuits. And I can't honestly say what
(45:38):
what I'm going to be doing to express myself creatively, but
just, yeah, not being totally cooked every day from training
is something it's really tantalizing because the level
that we have to push to, to get any gains and to get further
(45:59):
down the road each race is, is insane.
And it, it takes, it takes a lot, takes a lot away from
everything from yeah, sometimes your relationships with other
people that like the the, the worst end of the scale, you
know, So yeah, like it's, it's going to be exciting.
(46:20):
And after this race, I go, I go straight to, to Qatar to watch
Ash in the T100. It's going to take another 30
hours of travel to get there, but.
Good grief. I'll, I'll be there to support
her. And then we're, we're going on
holiday and it's, it's to Turkeyand it's our first overseas
(46:42):
holiday ever after the end of the season.
Because we're, we're always so, so burnt out from travel and,
and everything that the season'sstarting at us at the end of the
year that we, we don't, we of course go on a camping holiday,
but just locally, but we don't really allow ourselves to.
(47:04):
To take the hair down. Yeah, well, we do.
We do definitely let the hair down, but it's in a way that we
can still refill the tank. Whereas now we're, yeah, we're
doing an international holiday, which we the only other time
we've done that is for a honeymoon.
Yeah, Yeah. It's exciting, exciting things
(47:27):
ahead. Yeah, no kidding.
With your, you know, a few timesyou've mentioned just like the
level that I like the sport has gotten to now.
Do you think that it's been a net negative or a net positive
on the overall fulfillment aspect of the professional field
and how they feel about it? It's hard to say.
(47:49):
I think if I, if I consider the career I've had the I don't see,
I see that it's going to be verydifficult for athletes of the
younger generation to to have aslong a career can definitely
(48:12):
have a more sex successful career.
But the, the way the sport's going, I see young athletes in
the early 20s doing 3 or 4 Iron Man's every year, backing them
up with other races. It's they're obviously
(48:35):
physiologically very superior. But the, the, to be able to
pursue that year on year is I think going to be quite
challenging. And it's sitting back watching
from the sidelines. It's, it's going to be quite
interesting to see the, the shape of people's careers and
(48:59):
how it differs from those of my generation and slightly older.
You know, someone, like we mentioned him before, but Jan
Ferdino going from short course to long course over, you know,
what was close to, if not longerthan a 20 year career.
(49:21):
That's still going to happen. You've got guys in short course
racing now, Olympians, Olympic medalists going into half
distance racing, but will they hit two decades of racing?
I think, yeah, the jury's definitely out so.
(49:42):
Yeah, yeah, humans haven't changed, but the the intensity
with which the performance is expected and the time scales.
Yeah, it seems because I've onlybeen a part of the sport now for
like 4 1/2 five years and I've seen the change even in the age
group fields, let alone the professional fields.
It's like next to next to insane.
And I'm wondering, yeah, like, what's it what's going to be the
(50:04):
net positive for the sport? Because if I look at something,
because I've interviewed quite afew professional cyclists,
people who were on the world tour, obviously a lot of
triathletes and we do a really good job on in every sport of
like showcasing the beautiful, amazing moments.
Oh, there's Toddie Pagacha, he'sdropped the field and he's
finishing and all his hands in the air.
But in terms of like what you'retalking about, the just the
(50:25):
sheer burnout, the travel, the getting there, the training,
like the mental fatigue, I feel like that still isn't talked
about quite enough. And maybe, maybe it shouldn't
be, maybe it won't be. But I'm wondering how it's going
to play. Yeah, yeah.
It's really interesting because already we see cracks with TADA.
(50:46):
Like he's very vocal about talking about retiring.
He's mentioned a number of timesthis year and then, you know,
he, we even find out after the fact, he after he won the tour
that he was close to to abandoning in the third week
like it's in, It's insane. And he's someone who's totally
(51:07):
on the top of his game, who has so much to look forward to.
But he's vocalizing retirement as like a young athlete.
So I couldn't imagine the guise of of of of past like
generations doing that because like that you can't you do have
(51:30):
the framework to keep going for a long time when there was less
incentive to race. So often.
I think if you look at, you know, the guy who's leading,
leading the way in in middle distance racing this year,
Hayden Wilde, he's backing up every two 100 with a with a
(51:52):
draft legal race. It's insane.
Like he doesn't need to do that.I in fact, it goes far as saying
I don't understand why he's doing that, but he is like he
doesn't need to. So, you know, I think the danger
for young athletes in sport is trying to emulate every crazy
thing they see. And it's super like the
(52:13):
interview. We want to do gnarly stuff.
We want to do something crazier than someone else did it or did
it better then someone else did it.
But it is it's a slick, it's a slippery slope.
And if you're talking about longevity and and like looking
after your body and trying to facilitate a long Korea, it's
(52:35):
yeah, it's definitely we're heading into probably
potentially a danger zone or like these guys are so good that
they're just going to keep blowing our minds.
And that could be the next thingthey rewrite the the real walk
in is is longevity. So I don't know.
It's it's yeah, it's happening in every sport.
(52:56):
I. Think it's?
Yeah, go for it. Yeah, I, I follow like I love, I
love it action sports like like slopestyle snowboarding,
halfpipe snowboarding and stuff and just saying like these 16
year old kids like what they're doing, like they're not doing 4
(53:17):
flips now, they're doing 5. And you know, the the 1440 is
now the 2160 or whatever. Like it's.
Yeah, it's just. Crazy that you had that mindset
where you're talking about like longevity.
I feel like it's so fascinating because I don't know if this is
true. This is just kind of a
hypothesis observation. But post World War 2, America
(53:40):
takes the stage and we very muchstand in this place of the value
set stands around kind of quick success or like a RIP roaring,
grow it as fast as you can. And then that translates to the
business world and you have the Silicon Valley.
Grow the tech startup as quick as you can, inject it with a
bajillion dollars, make no money.
(54:01):
But then all of a sudden overnight it becomes a profiting
thing because you decide to charge for it.
For the longest time I kind of idolized that framework of mind
of like the short term. But prior to World War 2 and you
go back even, you know, 1000 years, whatever you look at like
the dynasties of China or the Middle Eastern societies, like
they had longevity built into the very architecture of how
(54:22):
they operated. And part of that's because of
industrialization or whatever that wasn't there.
But that mindset of like long term living was so prevalent.
And now it's so very much that seems to be the other side of
the the coin where it's like, get as best as you can, as quick
as you can and till the rocket just explodes in in a beautiful
finale. And then, Oh yeah, well, we'll
(54:43):
get another rocket and we'll light that one and we'll just
see what happens. And I feel like that's what's
happening with a lot of like thehonestly like kids coming into
these sports, they're getting sogood so fast.
But then it's like, well, where are you?
Where, what do you want to do 10years down the road?
Like no one wants to even talk about two years down the road,
let alone 10. So it's like, I don't know, it's
(55:04):
more of an observation and. Yeah, of course.
Like it's definitely an interesting thing.
I studied history in high schooland and at university and did
study like the dynasties of China.
And of course you can look at a lot of the geopolitical tension
(55:27):
these days with China trying to reclaim every aspect of
superiority they had before all the white guys came, took it
away from them. But it is, yeah.
It's you can relate that to sport, you can relate that to
business. You can relate that to, to
(55:49):
social media and any of these new sort of cultures that have
sprung up around all these crazytechnologies that we've created.
You know, now we're sort of looking down the, the next stage
of say coaching and people are Ikeep seeing all these coaches
talking about like the AI potential for the, the, the
(56:10):
potential AI offers for coaching.
It's like, at what point does like is the human experiencing
changing? The at what point is the human
experience changing for the worse?
And it, it is kind of a scary thought in some ways.
And I don't like to, to embrace the next thing as quickly as
(56:36):
others because I think there's definitely merit in, in sitting
back to observe and, you know, collecting as much informational
observations in whatever it may be to, to then choose your own
path and, and how you want to, to do that yourself.
(56:56):
I think to be an individual and to make individual choices in
society today is, is something that we should should all aspire
to and not just follow trends, follow crowds, yeah.
Yeah, along those lines, even like with that, especially on
(57:19):
the topic of like artificial intelligence, we're trying to
create it seems like perfection in response in, in guidance and
like cause a lot of these people, a lot of people are
going to ChatGPT or Claude or Grok or whatever the, you know,
MLLM you even talked about, theygo to them for advice, write a
training plan. How do I write this paper?
(57:40):
How do I make this sentence sound better?
And and because it's no longer in like the format of Google
where you type in a question, you can kind of like take an
aggregate look at the multiple things it just gives you kind of
what is. And so I think that the danger
in that is like, yeah, we, we quit thinking for ourselves.
But if you try to assimilate perfection in an imperfect
world, I just don't think that'sgoing to go very well because I
(58:05):
mean, then you then you start asking the question, what's even
real anymore? It's like I I used to pride
myself on being able to pick outthe scammers or tell when a
photo is fake or tell when something was written.
And I'm like, but honestly, man,it's getting hard for me, but
it's getting hard for everyone, not even the younger generation.
So I'm like, where, where does this go?
If you could no longer point to what the truth is, but this
thing is very definitively telling you what the truth is.
(58:27):
It's like, well, I think I'm going to go get my plot of land.
I'm going to start farming and get some solar panels.
And Josh, if you want to come hang out, here's the coordinate.
See you later. I mean, I mean, there's probably
more and more people now that would say that sounds ideal,
right? It just seems that there's like
this crevice growing between people that want to have
(58:50):
experiences or people that like told what to experience.
Yeah. I don't know, man.
Just like get on your bike and go for a ride and.
Go for a ride. Feel power of that experience,
yeah. Yeah, no kidding.
Yeah, dude, I'm, I'm so excited for you.
(59:12):
I I guess I just really want to say thank you so much for
allowing me the opportunity to come in and talk to you about
this, like chapter end of your life.
Yeah, I'm excited for what's to come in the future, but just
hearing and experiencing some ofthe things you're talking about
in this kind of unknown what thenext thing is going to be
(59:32):
exactly. And seeing the raw emotion of
what you're experiencing, your friend being there, you getting
to go see Ash and finish right after.
Like there's just a lot of the pieces of your story that are
very raw right now. And I'm really thankful that you
gave me the opportunity. You've given me the opportunity
to sit down and talk with you about it.
Yeah, thanks, Seth. I haven't, I've had personal
(59:54):
conversations with people, but yeah, this is the first time I'm
I'm speaking openly about this. So it's.
Nice to connect with you. And yeah, it was.
It was a good discussion. Yeah.
Do you think you're going to write a book?
I think if there's one thing that I probably could do, it
would be right right now. My like attention span is so
(01:00:18):
destroyed by like various thingshappening right now, but I would
love to, to do something like that in the future to, to write
something that's funny but insightful, maybe even little
bits of wisdom that I have. I kind of, you know, I, I do
(01:00:41):
really enjoy writing that was like the, the inspiration for my
race reports was do something funny, do something that people
will actually, actually connect with words again on a, on a
deeper level. So I don't know, I obviously
don't have any plans. I don't have a concept but who
knows, could be something I'll look at down the road.
(01:01:04):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Awesome.
Well, thanks man for your time. I really appreciate it and wish
you all the best. And yeah.
Is there a way actually to view?I know it'll be over by the time
this goes out, but is there a way to view the the past stuff
like the documentary and all of that?
Or even watch the race? Is it televised?
No, no mate. Like this.
(01:01:24):
This race is so big it won't it's not possible to to
televise. You can follow a tracker.
I mean, there's going to be likesporadic timing updates.
But yeah, yeah, for sure that's they get Starlinks on every
bike. Yeah.
And then that that happens and then the Spirit's gone.
(01:01:46):
Yeah, I guess this is like, yeah, this isn't a race for
spectators. It's, it's for, for the people
that have chosen to do it and, and for, to have that experience
and you know, 3 reflections of that experience via certain
mediums. People say that and go, that's
what I want to do. That's, and I think that this
(01:02:06):
race is just going to keep building year on year.
I was talking to the guys that started Pentagon man yesterday.
We had dinner last night and everyone told them that no one
would come. When I had the the idea for this
race, people said it's too far, it's too expensive, no one will
want to do it. And every year it keeps growing.
(01:02:27):
So there's obviously some secretsauce in there that keeps crazy
people coming. So it's.
Hard. And definitely part of that is
the allure of the experience. So yeah, yeah, it's a pleasure
to chat with you about it. And yeah, I'm looking forward to
(01:02:47):
to sharing my experience to thisrace with people as well.
Awesome. Thanks, man.
Thank you so much to Josh for coming on the podcast again.
And let me ask some questions about what's going on.
It's pretty cool to have the conversation with someone who is
stepping into the next chapter of life.
I'm holding to it. I would love to see a book come
out eventually about his journeyand experience.
(01:03:10):
He's a unique guy and yeah, justlives life's to the fullest.
And I think if there is one thing that I'd like to leave
with everybody after this episode that I'm going to be
taking away from it especially, is that whatever you're doing in
life, don't forget to feel it. Don't just do it, feel it.
So thank you guys for being here.
Thanks for listening to these final few episodes of the
(01:03:31):
season, for listening for as long as you have.
I am here for the long haul through the ups and downs.
I'll just tell you guys and you'll hear about this a little
bit more, I guess, in episode 205, where I'm going to kind of
do a little bit of a recap. But I have been struggling here
the past few months on a number of different things, trying to
figure out what the future is asit relates to my professional
(01:03:51):
life, to how I interact with thepodcast.
I'm going to continue to do it forever because I'm committed to
it and it's a passion of mine. But figuring that out has put
some toll on just, I guess my mental health a little bit.
Have done some counseling. Anyway, don't want to open too
much on this episode about that.But I think that episode 2 O 5
(01:04:14):
is going to be pretty interesting because I'm going to
try to open up deeply about someof those things and share a lot
of the wisdom and tidbits and things that I have heard.
And I'm trying to practice, practice based on the
conversations I've had. So thanks for being here.
Thanks again to Josh for coming on the pod.
And yeah, we'll catch you guys in the next 1.
See ya.
How's it going everybody? Welcome back to another edition
of the Stupid Questions podcast.Today on the pod going to be
talking with Josh Amberger. This is his round two interview
and he is stepping into a new phase of life saying goodbye to
professional triathlon. By the time this airs, he will
just have raced. The Patagonia man tried to kind
of cap off the professional season of racing for him, which
(00:23):
is 20 years long. Great conversation.
Even in the beginning there as he's talking about this, you can
kind of hear some of the cracks in the voice and just know how
much this means to him. And I think it's a really
special conversation because I think often too many times in
life we push probably a little bit too long in certain things
and don't know how to quit, especially in the high
performance world. Anyway, that's a hot take, but I
(00:46):
just really enjoyed this conversation and found a lot of
value in it, even teared up a few times myself.
So I hope you enjoyed as much. If you want to follow Josh,
check out the show notes for allthat different stuff.
I'll make sure to link it there.Wherever you're listening or
watching. If you could like, comment,
subscribe, all of that helps to continue to grow the podcast.
Thank you guys so much for beinghere.
And without further ado, I want to introduce you to this round
two conversation with Josh Amberger.
(01:11):
Where are you at right now? Hey buddy, Yeah, so I'm in Koi
Haiki, which is in Patagonia in Chile.
And yeah, I'm just sitting in myhotel room in sine view up here
in the mountain and the green. There's like a still some snow
(01:31):
on the mountains up there. We've got some sunshine today.
So, yeah, second day here and it's been a mixed bag every day
from freezing cold to rain to sunshine, just sort of getting
to know the place and where we are in Koi high key.
It's probably about halfway through the bike leg of the
(01:55):
Pentagon man extreme try. So that's, that's what we're
here to do. So yeah, the the the race
doesn't start or finish here. It just passes through.
It's a very long point to point race and kind of getting a head
around the the logistics for it is is quite an intense, but I
think we'll get there eventually.
(02:16):
Yeah, you have people occurring for you.
Yeah, so I got my my best mate from from high school, He's he's
come here Anthony. We did try for many years.
So yeah, I flew him over from from Melbourne to join me.
So we're both like crazy jet lagged.
(02:37):
So yeah, I think that's working out for us so far.
Yeah, no kidding. So you're you're there.
You've got the race coming up and you got your buddy Croon for
you. Like you said, jet lag is a very
real thing. The logistics of it all.
Where are your nerves at for this compared to like Because
you've raised a ton obviously. Right, I'm like super chill.
I've hardly hardly done any training this week.
(03:00):
So I'm also recovering from I'm in 70.3 Vol Divya, which is
actually took me almost a full day of travel just to get here
and it's you know, not too far north in Chile.
So, so I've got that, that race on my legs, plus a huge after
party and not not much sleep. So have hardly done any any
(03:22):
training. But that's that's fine.
That's that's where we're at. We're here for here for fun.
That's why I want to do this race as a different experience
to what I'm used to on the the elite circuit where everything
is, is like cut throat. It's brutal.
(03:44):
You have to be doing everything right if you want to stand a
chance. And for me in this race, it's
it's like just about experience.So I'm not stressed about
getting workouts in. I've actually probably been
eating too much dessert every night.
I figure if there's a race you want to be carrying some extra
(04:04):
fat for, it's this one because you can get pretty cold, the
water's freezing. So yeah, I mean, it's, it's been
a relaxed week and and I just want to soak it all up so.
Yeah, well, why? Why are you racing it?
Yes, I this is actually my finaltriathlon as a professional and
(04:25):
perhaps ever. I'm not really sure about that,
but it's definitely, definitely the the end of my triathlon
career finishes here in Paragon Man.
So it's something I'm like really excited about and I've
kind of been planning this race as the as the last one for some
years. I had a meeting with the team
(04:47):
here at the Pentagon Man X try earlier in 2023 and they were
like, I guess I think Ben Hoffman referred me as an
athlete they should check out, but maybe they are.
They also saw this was sort of up my alley, this sort of
adventure stuff. So ever since then I've been
(05:08):
chatting to them and basically have in my in my mind this was
always going to be the one, you know, the last one.
And earlier earlier in the year I did, I mean Cairns in June and
put everything into the prep, did everything right.
Wanted to chase one final good Iron Man on the professional
(05:33):
circuit and came up short and had like a really bad race.
And it was in that time that I decided OK, like, yeah, my
body's not really responding to to the training for Iron Man,
let alone like the new racing dynamic and where the where the
levels going with, you know, seven hour 30 performances on
(05:54):
the rig. So, so, yeah, like at that time,
I, I, I texted the Paragon main crew and I said it's, it's the
year this it's happening. So yeah, it's, it's just been
amazing to, to, to know that there's something fun like this
waiting for me at the end. And it's totally my decision.
(06:17):
And it's, it hasn't come out come with like without a lot of
emotion and a lot of, a lot of thought and a lot of like, even
on the flight over here, I was getting quite emotional, like
thinking it's, you know, this isit.
This the last ones say ones because I still had the 70.3 in
(06:40):
front of me. Oh my God, I, I love what I do.
It's, it's insane. Like even just where I'm going
now, it's my first time to SouthAmerica.
That's kind of the other reason why I'm here is it's the last
continent for me to check off a race everywhere else.
I don't think a triathlon existsin Antarctica.
So yeah, not yet the the extremetries on the up, I think.
(07:00):
But yes, it's the last continentI'm I'm here to check off and I
just I love everything about what I do.
The the travel, the people I made like the the anticipation
of building for something big. It's it like fills me with a lot
of a lot of excitement and joy and, and also like nostalgia
(07:22):
looking back at my career. So yeah, I was getting quite
emotional on the flight and it'slike, God, maybe I've got
another year in me, you know, like I think I do.
That's that's the thing. My body, my body's good.
My body's not breaking down. So many guys have to pull up
their career because they just can't, can't do the training and
(07:43):
their body's not letting them made.
I've got well over 100 professional races in my legs,
100 of them being Iron Man or 70.3 races.
But it's not my body that's failing me.
But I, I think I, I don't, I, well, I just, I don't want to, I
don't want to leave it too long.I don't want to.
(08:05):
Some guys leave it too long and they, they walk away with
resentment. I was even chatting to to Mark
Allen was Mark Allen was a special guest in Valdivia on the
weekend, which was really cool. And I spoke to him briefly and I
(08:26):
was like asked him what age he was when he retired, he was 38.
And he said he thought he could have kept going, but was really
glad he didn't because if all the guys he knew that he was
racing against that pushed it too long, trash their body,
they're really paying for payingfor that later in life.
(08:47):
So he said he's done more, more travel, more events, busiest
schedule, really enjoying life into his 60s.
Correct me if I'm wrong there, but I mean, who doesn't want to
be like Mark Allen when they're older?
You know, he's he's he's full ofit.
He's like, he's got so much energy.
(09:09):
So that that was like really, really, really good.
Reassuring to hear that. And I've had yeah, 20, this is
my 20th, 20th year. I did five years of elite racing
on the draft legal circuit and 15 years professional Iron Man
and 70.3. So that's a full career.
And that's back-to-back seasons every year, every year, every
(09:33):
year. It's and that's also why I'm
happy to to now close the chapter because I've done
everything I can in that time toto achieve my potential to make
the most of my talents and so much work that goes into it. 3
(09:59):
sports. It's insane.
I think this is the first year where I've really taken a, I
wouldn't say a backseat, but looked looked at my training and
look at look at what I do in therear view mirror.
And it's been like, damn, like being on your game for three
(10:19):
sports is inside. And yeah, so yeah, I'm happy to
to leave it there after this one, Yeah.
Yeah, no kidding man. Why I can even sense if I'm not
incorrect. Like a little bit of just like
the fluctuation in your voices you're talking about, like there
(10:39):
seems to be a good bit of emotion involved in this.
When's. I mean, I guess it's probably
been relatively soon, but when'sthe last time you cried?
Oh. My probably the night before the
race on the weekend, just chatting to Ash and just, yeah,
just, I don't know, going over things with Ash, like realize it
(11:04):
basically, like realizing it wasthe last one.
And I think that's a good thing that like, I can be emotional
about it because, I mean, it means something, you know, if I.
Yeah, if I, if I was burned out and I didn't give a shit, it
would be, you know, I'm it. Yeah.
Yeah. Like you wouldn't get upset
(11:24):
about it, but yeah, it is. It is.
Yeah. Just think about all the
experiences over the years and it's, yeah, it's irreplaceable.
It's like it's insanely hard. What we do as triathletes and as
professionals is on another level, of course.
(11:46):
But yeah, that's the other thingis getting ready for races is so
demanding. I think part of my my chat with
Ash and having a good cry on thephone was almost as well a sense
of relief that like everything that goes into pre race I won't
(12:11):
have to do that anymore. So.
Yeah, you can breathe a little. Yeah, I think so.
And I love, I love triathlon from the sidelines as well.
Obviously Ash, my wife is, she'sstill got a lot more and she's
never done an Ironman and she's got all that ahead of her to
(12:31):
enjoy. So I'm really looking forward to
looking at the sport from from anew perspective as a non
competitor. So yeah.
Yeah, man. How do you think it'll change
the dynamic of your relationshipnow that you can offer that
level of support that maybe you haven't been able to in the
(12:51):
past? Well, Ash wants me to still swim
with her, but that's one thing that I want to definitely take a
break from. I I do all her swimming
programming. Yeah, I'm her number one partner
in the pool. So I've told her I'm taking a
break from swimming. So I think she understands that,
(13:13):
but, you know, she'd rather me be there for the hard yards.
So, yeah, she can't expect me tocome to the pool anymore.
So I don't know, maybe she understands.
But, you know, maybe jokingly, there'll be some friction there
when she really needs some company to go to the pool.
But I think we've just always been so supportive of each
(13:35):
other. And then what we're doing, Like
she she's not here with me to celebrate this occasion.
I, I asked her to come, but she's so committed with what
she's doing in her own professional career.
Obviously has 2100 Qatar next weekend or, or this weekend,
depending when we publish this. So it's not, it's not possible
(13:59):
to, to be in South America and then the Middle East the next
week and expect to, to, to rise.Well, you know, she's knocking
on the podium for the two 100. So it's, it's like it's
something that we've always dealt with in our careers is
respecting each other's goals and, and where we want to, where
(14:21):
we want to take out our careers and, and what's important to us.
And yeah, it's, it doesn't mean that we don't support each other
though. And I think she's, she's
definitely going through a toughtime not being here.
Likewise, Yeah, of course. I mean, what?
(14:43):
Yeah, like she would love to be here, but it's her professional
commitment is is too great. And likewise, I would love to be
at home prepping her for for herbiggest race of the year, but I
can't do that as well. So obviously with one of us
stepping away from the sport, it's going to be, I guess much
(15:07):
better in the yeah, I'll be basically 100% dedicated to her
preparation and her races. So that's that's going to be
awesome. Yeah, Yeah, that's interesting.
Like, I don't think that gets talked about enough because
there's quite a few professionaltriathlon couples and the
(15:27):
dynamic and the balance you haveto do, you know, like you said
in our previous conversation, and even you're alluding to this
fact now that triathlon has shaped literally every part of
your life for so long. I think you were six years old
when you started doing stuff, maybe in the pool, if I'm not
mistaken. And you've been racing and being
a part of triathlon for 20 years.
You're 36. So more than half your life has
(15:48):
been wrapped in this identity. Is there any part of yourself
that you're afraid might disappear now that you're kind
of stepping away from this world?
That's a good question. That's 2020 professional years.
I've just, I've been racing triathlon for over 25.
If I consider coming up through the age group ranks before I, I
(16:10):
got my pro cards. So yeah, it's a massive chunk.
And before that I was racing in the pool as a, as a young
swimmer. So I don't necessarily see my
identity as a triathlete. If I factor in my swimming, my
(16:31):
swimming career, or, you know, when I was racing in the pool,
it's, it's my, my identity is more as a racer and, and a
competitor. And of course, like triathlon
has totally shaped my, my adult life and who my friends are and,
and, and you know, how I earn a living and everything.
(16:52):
But first and foremost, like, I just love racing.
And that's still something that I'm going to enjoy in the years
to come. And I've, I've definitely got my
eyes on certain challenges. So, but I, it's just going to be
for one sport at a time, not 3. So, so as like a bit of a soft
(17:16):
launch. I've already got a spot for
Unbound XL in, in June next year.
So one of the most hectic gravelraces in the US, if not the
world, I guess, like the de facto gravel world champs in
some ways. I'm not doing that as a
professional, but it, it will bea pursuit for sure.
(17:40):
And it's something that I reallywant to get stuck into.
And it's also reflective of why I'm doing Pentagon Man is
because I really enjoy to, to chase challenges and adventure
and professional triathlon is, is definitely those things, but
in a different sense. And it's very, it's very elite.
(18:03):
It's, you know, it's a totally different ball game to doing
something like Pentagon Man or Unbound XL, where sometimes it
can just be you against the clock.
But I'm definitely really keen to still get stuck into some
racing next year. I've also got my sights, unlike
the UCI Gravel World Champs, which is in Australia, so I have
(18:25):
to qualify for that. And yeah, I'm just I'm really
excited to to keep racing, just at a different level and a
different format. Yeah.
Well, what are you going to do when and if, and I kind of think
more when you find yourself likein a competitive place where you
could potentially stick around some of the higher end elite
(18:48):
level, like professional gravel racers and stuff.
Like are you going to consider yourself and allow yourself to
go down that path or is it you're going to keep it?
No, I'm not professional. I'm doing this because I want to
do it. I yeah, I think it's that I
mean, I'm under no illusions that I'm going to be able to
compete with professional cyclists and, you know, gravel
racing is full of, you know, current or former professional
(19:11):
cyclists, probably even chasing the same thing as I just like to
extend that, that, you know, period of competitiveness.
Yeah, like those experiences. I think I definitely do.
I I'm still very fortunate to toenjoy some of my sponsorships
(19:31):
going into this period. So I'm really lucky to to still
be riding Scott and SRAM and wearing win and, and no, no.
So yeah, I've, I've had this conversation with all my
partners and they're super excited to keep supporting me.
So that feels amazing. But yeah, definitely it's, I
(19:55):
think Ash would probably kill meif I decided I was going to to
really pursue cycling because it's really not.
It's no different. The time commitment is no
different to triathlon. Those professional cyclists are
riding 25 hours a week plus, youknow.
I have a couple of them as my friends in Europe.
(20:16):
And so I finish. It's really just definitely a
passion for me and it's a sport that I've really enjoyed the
last five years, particularly toto bring balance.
And I'm talking about like gravel, you know, off road bike
packing, general adventure on two wheels is something that I
(20:40):
think's really helped me keep balance as a triathlete and keep
me dedicated to the sport because I do have this outlet
that I really enjoy on easy rides on off seasons.
It's yeah, it's just an amazing thing, particularly where we
(21:02):
live in Australia, our options to ride off road are really good
and something that definitely inspires me to sort of pursue
more challenges in that area. You mentioned last time too that
like you know, some of your longbike rides, especially more the
Zone 2 ones, you get out for four hours, that they're almost
like a spiritual experience. Do you think that you'll be
(21:24):
chasing more of that since you'll have less focus on, I
guess just, OK, I got to be at the top end and hit all these
markers and hit these power numbers and hit this time and
this time and arrow and blah, blah, blah.
You think you'll be chasing moreof that?
Oh 100%, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's definitely what
I've been chasing anyway, is experiences.
(21:48):
Swim back and run. You can, if you're creative with
your training, you can get all the hard work done without
worrying too much about the data.
Of course, like that's probably not going to put you in the top
1% of the competitors. But yeah, for me, that's
definitely been the balance set that I've had to find to train
(22:12):
in places that definitely inspire me to to do the the
work. Like I can't just sit on the
trainer like a robot every rod. It's just not possible for me.
Yeah. And yeah, like I, I am super
pumped. Like part of the the thing that
(22:35):
like I don't enjoy about training for triathlon is like
if you're riding or running thatmorning, you have a swim in the
afternoon, you go to the pool and cut off and you just feel
like shit. Like I don't actually feel like
I, I still swim well, I, I stilllike and leading out races, but
I don't actually go to the pool and feel great because I'm just
(22:56):
tanked from Viking and running so and, and vice versa,
running's traditionally been a weakness for me As for my whole
career. And there's really been like
very few times where you've feltamazing and like the, the, the
swimming and cycling is not likeit's adding to your running and
(23:17):
not taking away. So yeah, it'll be fun to just do
1 sport for a bit and feel that freshness.
Like I joined a yard for Dino inindoor this year and I told him
that I was retiring and he's just like for two years.
You'll be, you'll be good. You won't have to do much
(23:37):
training. You'll go out every day and
you'll feel amazing because you'll just have that freshness
that you don't have as a triathlete.
So yeah. But it will obviously carry all
carries a lot of fitness for a long time.
It's I've been training all my life, so I don't expect to be a
(23:59):
BLOB on the couch within like a couple months.
But yeah, definitely enjoying toto more of that fresh feeling
when I'm training. So you mentioned Jan, you
mentioned Mark Allen. Are these the only or their
other mentors or people that you've been kind of looking to
for not necessarily emulation, but inspiration for how you're
going to carry out, you know, even beyond the two years for
(24:21):
what life looks like for Josh after this?
I think I haven't looked so muchat what other triathletes are
doing. I, I've told quite a number of
athletes that that I'm retiring.Some of them want to
(24:41):
congratulate me straight away. It's actually really interesting
like gauging reactions to to retirement because some people
straight up want to shake your hand and say congratulations and
then some others don't say anything.
They maybe almost think that it's like a weird thing, I guess
maybe it's just something they've never contemplated
(25:02):
before because they're so young in their careers.
But it's, yeah, I haven't reallybeen looking too many
triathletes to see what they're doing post retirement.
I just, I, I quite enjoy to follow athletes doing different
things from like, you know, justbike Packers or artists that
(25:26):
like to ride bikes and express their creativity through what
they do on two wheels. I guess someone like Heather
Jackson's been like pretty badass to, to see what she's
getting up to. I would go as far as saying that
she's definitely my inspiration to do Unbound XL.
(25:47):
Seeing, seeing her win that lastyear was, was just sick.
So I'm like, I saw that and I was like, OK, that's what I want
to do. Yeah.
There's there's the competitive spirit.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So, yeah, I'm sure like there's,
there's probably definitely somesome things that don't come to
mind right now. But yeah, I do really enjoy like
(26:09):
seeing what some people are up to and some athletes have dived
straight into to business, you know, like I'm here with Ali
Brownlee and we were sitting at breakfast yesterday.
He's got his laptop in front of him and he's on his phone and
like he's, yeah, he's just like straight up business now.
And I think that's that's his competitiveness in in sport.
(26:34):
And he was honestly like the most competitive person or like
one of you know, we've mentionedCodino and like those guys that
the Olympic gold medallist, theyare like their life is
competition. And that's I could really say
that that just you know, that that switches flicked in in Ali
(26:57):
and he's but I don't see myself like I do have aspirations for
business in the future. But as far as say the short term
in the next 12 months, I kind ofjust want to have a gap year.
It's very traditional for for Australians to to travel and to
to to enjoy themselves, to let their hair down after high
(27:19):
school or at some point in thereyoung adult life.
And that's something that I've never really been allowed to do
because I've been so career driven.
And it's definitely something that I'm looking forward to to
enjoying is just not waking up without, you know, this crazy
(27:41):
goal that you have to work towards just little micro goals,
I think for for a short period of time.
And also really enjoying supporting Ash in her pursuit.
I I just have to stop you for a second because my, he he's
knocking on the door. Here you go.
This. Are we back on?
(28:01):
Yeah, yeah, we're still good. Just got the delivery the
official beer of Pentagon man nice for 2025.
So we're actually at this brewery house last night,
Dolbec. So it's like a local brewery
here in in Koi Haiki. So yeah, the week looks
promising from a A as a beer enthusiast, I would say.
(28:27):
That's so cool. So as the bar like for your
ability to be competitive, you know, as we get older like it
goes, it goes down. Do you think that that will
hinder your competitive spirit and drive from an athletic
standpoint? I don't think so because I love
(28:49):
riding with masters cyclists at home in Australia every year.
I typically at the end of the year, I do, I, I call it the
annual punters ride. So I go go ride with a bunch of
dudes in their 40s, forties, 50sand pull turns with them.
(29:09):
And sometimes I can I, I almost have to check myself and wonder
how I'm a pro athlete when I've got like these dudes, these
masters cyclists that have have 10 or 15 years.
I'm a like putting me to the sword.
And so it's funny, like I say, these guys that they just they
(29:31):
love training and they love, they love pushing themselves.
And that's the that's the spiritwe have in sport is like going
toe to toe. It could even be against your
best mate, but just that feelingof you pushing your limits, like
that's something that I don't think is going to be lost on me
because like I've said, it's it's been my whole life.
(29:55):
I started first dive in the pooland race 25 meters when I was 5
or 6 years old. Like, and that, that drive to to
achieve my potential is definitely what's what's kept me
in the sport and I don't and racing as a professional yeah, I
(30:16):
don't see that dissolving anytime soon yeah and I, I, I
feel like I, I just I love, I also love achieving my
potential. Getting to that point where you,
you see the results from your work, whether that whether
that's a race win or you know, a, a top five on the weekend in
(30:40):
Baldivia, I was top five. I really wanted one more podium
to finish off my career. But the the performance that I
had for 5th place there for me was incredible.
And I I absolutely was on the limit the whole race and pushed
(31:00):
myself to a point that I thoughtmight not be possible.
Knowing that it was the last one.
Having committed to the finish, there could be a tendency to
just who cares, you know, I willjust get it done.
But yeah, I was able to, to justgo Max and yeah, and I'm just
(31:20):
finished, not with the podium, but feeling so satisfied that I
executed on that day. And, you know, I made the most
of of the work that I've done this year, of all the work I've
I've put before me as my time asa as a professional.
And that that those aspects of sport are are extremely
(31:41):
rewarding. Yeah, yeah, It's so interesting.
I wish that I was there to witness you doing the Patagonia
man, because I feel like becauseyou know, this is your last one,
your your threshold for like theceiling of your potential.
Because knowing this last one, like I think mental, you could
probably push yourself to a place maybe you haven't before.
(32:02):
But also in the same regard, because it is the last one, if
you got into a really dark place, the floor of just like
the depths of despair that you could potentially feel are also
equally as extreme. So it's like, I would love to,
is someone following you? I wish there was like some kind
of a documentary thing that you could.
Yeah, So I, I, before I talk about that, I would say that I
(32:25):
think you're right on the money.I don't know what is going to
happen on Sunday. I don't know if I'm going to be
locked in a battle with Ali and,you know, be like a dog with a
bone or I don't know if I'm going to be solo myself all day,
like if the weather shit just suffering or if that suffering
(32:49):
is what drives me to to see out the challenge.
Like it's it's kind of quite exciting to to to think that I
don't know what lies ahead. There's so few times we step
onto a race course as a professional, not having study
the course in the competition. Whereas here it's it's point to
(33:11):
point, it's 226 K one way to theother through through the
mountains, through the fjords. And there's going to be a lot of
that time where I'm going to be by myself, the my crew man
Anthony, he will. So the the rule is you can
(33:33):
receive as much support as possible during the race as long
as they can pull their car off all four wheels off the road.
So that he can stop as often as I need him to to whatever it is,
swap out gear, grab some carbs, fix a flat.
I won't obviously be able to communicate with him, but just
(33:56):
him leapfrogging me every 10 kilometers or so should give
like quite a, a good opportunityto, to have assistance.
But then once you hit the run, it's the run is extremely
remote. It's there's 38 stations,
10K20K30K. So you obviously have to take
(34:17):
what you need to get yourself between those eight stations.
There's parts of those are like single trail, like go track to,
to nice open planes. It's all off road.
And then there's also Deep Rivercrossings where you know, it's
recommended to to take your shoes off and you're like chase
(34:40):
chest hot crossing a a freezing cold river.
So, but once you hit that 30K marker, your crew man has the
choice to be there waiting for you and then they can run the
last 12 K with you. So he, Anthony, he, he was a, a
professional as well, but not sonot so fast these days in, in
(35:05):
corporate life. So he's been under the pump to,
to get some fitness to run with me for the end.
Unfortunately for him that that last 12K is net downhill.
So we suffer all the elevation in the first part of the, of the
run. And then my legs, my quads are
probably going to be shot. Well, he's going to be a bit
(35:25):
fresher than me. So yeah, it's the fear, the
thought to have, you know, my best mate running with me for
those last kilometres is also like, it's nice.
It's definitely a nice thought. You're.
Going to be crying, I think. I think you're going to be in
tears and I wish I was there to.Yeah, probably.
(35:46):
Yeah. And like, I haven't, I haven't
really indulged too much in watching the race documentaries.
They produce a documentary and they're doing some stuff on me
for this year. So that answers your other
question. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.
I haven't. I haven't indulged too much.
I haven't learned all there is to know about the course because
(36:06):
I want it to be a raw experienceon the day.
Yeah, exactly. But it's hard to to not watch
the finish line experience that athletes have at this race and
and not be moved. So it's just you.
Yeah. You run up.
So I forget the name of the town, but you cresting this
(36:30):
hill, there's a bell, you ring the bell, you're done.
And yeah, the like, I don't know.
It's just a it's AI think it's it.
It looks like a very pure experience.
And the Ignacio, the the organizers there to to greet you
with your medal. And there's like not a person
(36:52):
that you'll see not finish the race and be moved.
And that's the that's the real attraction for me for this race
is it's, it's not about a time, like it's not about a result,
it's about a feeling. And if I finish with a race like
this, there's no chance to finish feeling disappointed or
(37:17):
in some way like I didn't achieve what I wanted to.
So yeah, that's my other attraction for for something
like an extreme try, yeah, finishing with a feeling.
Well, I'm imagining, I'm trying to imagine you at 16 years old
doing your first professional race, crossing the start line
(37:37):
and I and I don't know, I doubt that's on film, but then
transitioning to you finishing this race about to ring the bell
like that, that entire timeline,like because like this, this
finish line to you is much more obviously than just the
Patagonia, man. It's literally like your past 20
years. And as I was thinking about that
instance, like 16 year old Josh,36 year old Josh is actually
(38:00):
like bringing tears to my eyes because I'm thinking I'm just
like, that's such a long period of time and dedication to one
particular thing. I had a hard time finishing
college, let alone doing 20 years in a professional sport.
So I'm stoked for you. Yeah, thanks buddy.
I think the 16 year old Josh probably not too different to
(38:22):
this version Josh, but just witha probably like a lot more
attitude more a little. More hair.
On your chest 16 Josh didn't take much shit and was happy to
to voice his opinion to anyone that did or didn't want to hear
(38:42):
it. So I'm, I'm much more Alan, have
a lot more, yeah, a lot more, a lot more life experience under
my belt. But definitely me at at that
age, it was a very raw thing, you know, racing.
I did a lot of sport in high school.
(39:02):
I went to to extremely sporty private high school where we
really had the opportunity to, to do, to do as much sport and,
and racing as we could possibly do.
And that definitely shaped me into, into adult life, as you
know, as a racer, just yeah, I, I just frothed it every, no
(39:29):
matter what the sport was like, I wanted to, to, to, to do well
at it. And yeah, chase that feeling of
pushing your limits. So yeah, it's it's special.
If you had the ability to sit down with your 16 year old self
knowing what the dreams and aspirations that you had at that
(39:50):
time and you had the ability to give the the future like to
know, OK, to tell your 16th selfself, this is where you're going
to go. This is where you're going to
achieve. This is what you're not going to
achieve. Would you tell yourself what
happened? I don't think so.
(40:12):
It's funny when when I was actually when I was that age.
So to, to give you an idea of what my attitude was like as a
16 year old, I didn't want to betold what to do.
I always wanted to be doing something different.
And when all my mates used to ask me if I was going to be a
professional athlete, I'd tell him to.
(40:34):
It's not like fuck off. There's no way, mate.
There's I'm not doing that because it always seemed like
written out for me that that wasthe path.
But I just to be, to be different.
I didn't want it, which sounds crazy.
But of course, now I, I'm, I express my differences in many
(40:59):
other ways rather than being a contrarian.
So it's actually, yeah, it's funny to look back on.
I didn't want a professional sports career.
I, I when I was 16, you're 16. I literally wanted to be a ski
bomb and that was it. So I.
(41:21):
Feel like you've done that well as well.
Yeah. But yeah, I don't know.
I think the, the serious answer to that question would be, do
you like you don't want to ever take your, you don't want to
almost know what's coming because it could take away from
(41:41):
the experience and feeling, feeling things in the moment to
talk more about when I was my last year of high school, I gave
a speech as the cross country captain.
And one of my lines in that speech is something I've always
(42:02):
tried to remember and live by. And it was like to not just do
something, but to feel it. And that, that was the spirit
of, of our cross country team and all the runners running.
You know, it's a, it's a very pure and spiritual sport or
experience, or it can allow you to have very spiritual
experiences. And and that was the thing I'd
(42:24):
I'd said to my team like don't just, but before our biggest
competition in the year was don't just like do it, like feel
it. And yeah, I feel like I've lived
by that so. Yeah, yeah.
I was going to ask you, like, doyou feel like you got where you
wanted to go? And it sounds like even though
maybe there's some of the, I don't know, the actual
(42:47):
accolades, like maybe you didn'tquite get to those and I could
be wrong. But in terms of the richness and
fulfillment, to be able to say like you were what you were
saying earlier, to feel it, but to walk away and cry and, and
like mourn because you really, it's like you're putting down
your a dog or something. I don't know.
It's like you're putting to death this part of your life
that has been a very cherished, protected thing.
(43:11):
And so I'd say you're doing pretty good.
Like you feel it. Yeah, definitely.
Yeah. I mean, I, I was, I didn't, if
I'm being honest, I didn't really hit my goals, competitive
goals. I want to to win a world title.
I wanted to win more Iron Man's.I didn't in the end achieve
(43:33):
those things. I got close, but it really
doesn't bother me because I, I, I, I, I made the absolute most
of of my talent that I have. And at the end I look back and I
(43:53):
won a lot of races. I won 1170 point threes, for
instance. I won 11 Iron Man unofficially
one another. But it doesn't really matter
because I, I made the most of ofwhat I had.
So it's like what I'm like, really proud of.
(44:13):
Yeah, I think I asked you before, and I can't remember
exactly what you said, but I kind of want to just ask this
question off the cuff. Is like, do you believe in God
yet? Because if not, I feel like
after you do this Patagonia man,you might be a little closer.
My answer is not different to our last chat.
(44:34):
Yeah, it's I'm still happy with where I'm at.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, you know, we talked a littlebit previously around those
topics. We were talking about the other
creative outlets that you have, obviously listening to music you
gave up playing in bands and stuff to kind of pursue this
(44:54):
professional life. So now that you're kind of
moving into this next stage of life, obviously you're still
going to be active. Do you want to reclaim any of
those past creative outlets? Yeah, definitely.
Like it's something I I think about all the time.
Like I don't want to be some like some old rocker, but who
(45:16):
knows, it could happen. You can't, you can't, you can't
hold it, hold it back. If if something's like wants to
come out from from inside you. One of the things I'm I'm really
looking forward to is just having more energy for for other
pursuits. And I can't honestly say what
(45:38):
what I'm going to be doing to express myself creatively, but
just, yeah, not being totally cooked every day from training
is something it's really tantalizing because the level
that we have to push to, to get any gains and to get further
(45:59):
down the road each race is, is insane.
And it, it takes, it takes a lot, takes a lot away from
everything from yeah, sometimes your relationships with other
people that like the the, the worst end of the scale, you
know, So yeah, like it's, it's going to be exciting.
(46:20):
And after this race, I go, I go straight to, to Qatar to watch
Ash in the T100. It's going to take another 30
hours of travel to get there, but.
Good grief. I'll, I'll be there to support
her. And then we're, we're going on
holiday and it's, it's to Turkeyand it's our first overseas
(46:42):
holiday ever after the end of the season.
Because we're, we're always so, so burnt out from travel and,
and everything that the season'sstarting at us at the end of the
year that we, we don't, we of course go on a camping holiday,
but just locally, but we don't really allow ourselves to.
(47:04):
To take the hair down. Yeah, well, we do.
We do definitely let the hair down, but it's in a way that we
can still refill the tank. Whereas now we're, yeah, we're
doing an international holiday, which we the only other time
we've done that is for a honeymoon.
Yeah, Yeah. It's exciting, exciting things
(47:27):
ahead. Yeah, no kidding.
With your, you know, a few timesyou've mentioned just like the
level that I like the sport has gotten to now.
Do you think that it's been a net negative or a net positive
on the overall fulfillment aspect of the professional field
and how they feel about it? It's hard to say.
(47:49):
I think if I, if I consider the career I've had the I don't see,
I see that it's going to be verydifficult for athletes of the
younger generation to to have aslong a career can definitely
(48:12):
have a more sex successful career.
But the, the way the sport's going, I see young athletes in
the early 20s doing 3 or 4 Iron Man's every year, backing them
up with other races. It's they're obviously
(48:35):
physiologically very superior. But the, the, to be able to
pursue that year on year is I think going to be quite
challenging. And it's sitting back watching
from the sidelines. It's, it's going to be quite
interesting to see the, the shape of people's careers and
(48:59):
how it differs from those of my generation and slightly older.
You know, someone, like we mentioned him before, but Jan
Ferdino going from short course to long course over, you know,
what was close to, if not longerthan a 20 year career.
(49:21):
That's still going to happen. You've got guys in short course
racing now, Olympians, Olympic medalists going into half
distance racing, but will they hit two decades of racing?
I think, yeah, the jury's definitely out so.
(49:42):
Yeah, yeah, humans haven't changed, but the the intensity
with which the performance is expected and the time scales.
Yeah, it seems because I've onlybeen a part of the sport now for
like 4 1/2 five years and I've seen the change even in the age
group fields, let alone the professional fields.
It's like next to next to insane.
And I'm wondering, yeah, like, what's it what's going to be the
(50:04):
net positive for the sport? Because if I look at something,
because I've interviewed quite afew professional cyclists,
people who were on the world tour, obviously a lot of
triathletes and we do a really good job on in every sport of
like showcasing the beautiful, amazing moments.
Oh, there's Toddie Pagacha, he'sdropped the field and he's
finishing and all his hands in the air.
But in terms of like what you'retalking about, the just the
(50:25):
sheer burnout, the travel, the getting there, the training,
like the mental fatigue, I feel like that still isn't talked
about quite enough. And maybe, maybe it shouldn't
be, maybe it won't be. But I'm wondering how it's going
to play. Yeah, yeah.
It's really interesting because already we see cracks with TADA.
(50:46):
Like he's very vocal about talking about retiring.
He's mentioned a number of timesthis year and then, you know,
he, we even find out after the fact, he after he won the tour
that he was close to to abandoning in the third week
like it's in, It's insane. And he's someone who's totally
(51:07):
on the top of his game, who has so much to look forward to.
But he's vocalizing retirement as like a young athlete.
So I couldn't imagine the guise of of of of past like
generations doing that because like that you can't you do have
(51:30):
the framework to keep going for a long time when there was less
incentive to race. So often.
I think if you look at, you know, the guy who's leading,
leading the way in in middle distance racing this year,
Hayden Wilde, he's backing up every two 100 with a with a
(51:52):
draft legal race. It's insane.
Like he doesn't need to do that.I in fact, it goes far as saying
I don't understand why he's doing that, but he is like he
doesn't need to. So, you know, I think the danger
for young athletes in sport is trying to emulate every crazy
thing they see. And it's super like the
(52:13):
interview. We want to do gnarly stuff.
We want to do something crazier than someone else did it or did
it better then someone else did it.
But it is it's a slick, it's a slippery slope.
And if you're talking about longevity and and like looking
after your body and trying to facilitate a long Korea, it's
(52:35):
yeah, it's definitely we're heading into probably
potentially a danger zone or like these guys are so good that
they're just going to keep blowing our minds.
And that could be the next thingthey rewrite the the real walk
in is is longevity. So I don't know.
It's it's yeah, it's happening in every sport.
(52:56):
I. Think it's?
Yeah, go for it. Yeah, I, I follow like I love, I
love it action sports like like slopestyle snowboarding,
halfpipe snowboarding and stuff and just saying like these 16
year old kids like what they're doing, like they're not doing 4
(53:17):
flips now, they're doing 5. And you know, the the 1440 is
now the 2160 or whatever. Like it's.
Yeah, it's just. Crazy that you had that mindset
where you're talking about like longevity.
I feel like it's so fascinating because I don't know if this is
true. This is just kind of a
hypothesis observation. But post World War 2, America
(53:40):
takes the stage and we very muchstand in this place of the value
set stands around kind of quick success or like a RIP roaring,
grow it as fast as you can. And then that translates to the
business world and you have the Silicon Valley.
Grow the tech startup as quick as you can, inject it with a
bajillion dollars, make no money.
(54:01):
But then all of a sudden overnight it becomes a profiting
thing because you decide to charge for it.
For the longest time I kind of idolized that framework of mind
of like the short term. But prior to World War 2 and you
go back even, you know, 1000 years, whatever you look at like
the dynasties of China or the Middle Eastern societies, like
they had longevity built into the very architecture of how
(54:22):
they operated. And part of that's because of
industrialization or whatever that wasn't there.
But that mindset of like long term living was so prevalent.
And now it's so very much that seems to be the other side of
the the coin where it's like, get as best as you can, as quick
as you can and till the rocket just explodes in in a beautiful
finale. And then, Oh yeah, well, we'll
(54:43):
get another rocket and we'll light that one and we'll just
see what happens. And I feel like that's what's
happening with a lot of like thehonestly like kids coming into
these sports, they're getting sogood so fast.
But then it's like, well, where are you?
Where, what do you want to do 10years down the road?
Like no one wants to even talk about two years down the road,
let alone 10. So it's like, I don't know, it's
(55:04):
more of an observation and. Yeah, of course.
Like it's definitely an interesting thing.
I studied history in high schooland and at university and did
study like the dynasties of China.
And of course you can look at a lot of the geopolitical tension
(55:27):
these days with China trying to reclaim every aspect of
superiority they had before all the white guys came, took it
away from them. But it is, yeah.
It's you can relate that to sport, you can relate that to
business. You can relate that to, to
(55:49):
social media and any of these new sort of cultures that have
sprung up around all these crazytechnologies that we've created.
You know, now we're sort of looking down the, the next stage
of say coaching and people are Ikeep seeing all these coaches
talking about like the AI potential for the, the, the
(56:10):
potential AI offers for coaching.
It's like, at what point does like is the human experiencing
changing? The at what point is the human
experience changing for the worse?
And it, it is kind of a scary thought in some ways.
And I don't like to, to embrace the next thing as quickly as
(56:36):
others because I think there's definitely merit in, in sitting
back to observe and, you know, collecting as much informational
observations in whatever it may be to, to then choose your own
path and, and how you want to, to do that yourself.
(56:56):
I think to be an individual and to make individual choices in
society today is, is something that we should should all aspire
to and not just follow trends, follow crowds, yeah.
Yeah, along those lines, even like with that, especially on
(57:19):
the topic of like artificial intelligence, we're trying to
create it seems like perfection in response in, in guidance and
like cause a lot of these people, a lot of people are
going to ChatGPT or Claude or Grok or whatever the, you know,
MLLM you even talked about, theygo to them for advice, write a
training plan. How do I write this paper?
(57:40):
How do I make this sentence sound better?
And and because it's no longer in like the format of Google
where you type in a question, you can kind of like take an
aggregate look at the multiple things it just gives you kind of
what is. And so I think that the danger
in that is like, yeah, we, we quit thinking for ourselves.
But if you try to assimilate perfection in an imperfect
world, I just don't think that'sgoing to go very well because I
(58:05):
mean, then you then you start asking the question, what's even
real anymore? It's like I I used to pride
myself on being able to pick outthe scammers or tell when a
photo is fake or tell when something was written.
And I'm like, but honestly, man,it's getting hard for me, but
it's getting hard for everyone, not even the younger generation.
So I'm like, where, where does this go?
If you could no longer point to what the truth is, but this
thing is very definitively telling you what the truth is.
(58:27):
It's like, well, I think I'm going to go get my plot of land.
I'm going to start farming and get some solar panels.
And Josh, if you want to come hang out, here's the coordinate.
See you later. I mean, I mean, there's probably
more and more people now that would say that sounds ideal,
right? It just seems that there's like
this crevice growing between people that want to have
(58:50):
experiences or people that like told what to experience.
Yeah. I don't know, man.
Just like get on your bike and go for a ride and.
Go for a ride. Feel power of that experience,
yeah. Yeah, no kidding.
Yeah, dude, I'm, I'm so excited for you.
(59:12):
I I guess I just really want to say thank you so much for
allowing me the opportunity to come in and talk to you about
this, like chapter end of your life.
Yeah, I'm excited for what's to come in the future, but just
hearing and experiencing some ofthe things you're talking about
in this kind of unknown what thenext thing is going to be
(59:32):
exactly. And seeing the raw emotion of
what you're experiencing, your friend being there, you getting
to go see Ash and finish right after.
Like there's just a lot of the pieces of your story that are
very raw right now. And I'm really thankful that you
gave me the opportunity. You've given me the opportunity
to sit down and talk with you about it.
Yeah, thanks, Seth. I haven't, I've had personal
(59:54):
conversations with people, but yeah, this is the first time I'm
I'm speaking openly about this. So it's.
Nice to connect with you. And yeah, it was.
It was a good discussion. Yeah.
Do you think you're going to write a book?
I think if there's one thing that I probably could do, it
would be right right now. My like attention span is so
(01:00:18):
destroyed by like various thingshappening right now, but I would
love to, to do something like that in the future to, to write
something that's funny but insightful, maybe even little
bits of wisdom that I have. I kind of, you know, I, I do
(01:00:41):
really enjoy writing that was like the, the inspiration for my
race reports was do something funny, do something that people
will actually, actually connect with words again on a, on a
deeper level. So I don't know, I obviously
don't have any plans. I don't have a concept but who
knows, could be something I'll look at down the road.
(01:01:04):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Awesome.
Well, thanks man for your time. I really appreciate it and wish
you all the best. And yeah.
Is there a way actually to view?I know it'll be over by the time
this goes out, but is there a way to view the the past stuff
like the documentary and all of that?
Or even watch the race? Is it televised?
No, no mate. Like this.
(01:01:24):
This race is so big it won't it's not possible to to
televise. You can follow a tracker.
I mean, there's going to be likesporadic timing updates.
But yeah, yeah, for sure that's they get Starlinks on every
bike. Yeah.
And then that that happens and then the Spirit's gone.
(01:01:46):
Yeah, I guess this is like, yeah, this isn't a race for
spectators. It's, it's for, for the people
that have chosen to do it and, and for, to have that experience
and you know, 3 reflections of that experience via certain
mediums. People say that and go, that's
what I want to do. That's, and I think that this
(01:02:06):
race is just going to keep building year on year.
I was talking to the guys that started Pentagon man yesterday.
We had dinner last night and everyone told them that no one
would come. When I had the the idea for this
race, people said it's too far, it's too expensive, no one will
want to do it. And every year it keeps growing.
(01:02:27):
So there's obviously some secretsauce in there that keeps crazy
people coming. So it's.
Hard. And definitely part of that is
the allure of the experience. So yeah, yeah, it's a pleasure
to chat with you about it. And yeah, I'm looking forward to
(01:02:47):
to sharing my experience to thisrace with people as well.
Awesome. Thanks, man.
Thank you so much to Josh for coming on the podcast again.
And let me ask some questions about what's going on.
It's pretty cool to have the conversation with someone who is
stepping into the next chapter of life.
I'm holding to it. I would love to see a book come
out eventually about his journeyand experience.
(01:03:10):
He's a unique guy and yeah, justlives life's to the fullest.
And I think if there is one thing that I'd like to leave
with everybody after this episode that I'm going to be
taking away from it especially, is that whatever you're doing in
life, don't forget to feel it. Don't just do it, feel it.
So thank you guys for being here.
Thanks for listening to these final few episodes of the
(01:03:31):
season, for listening for as long as you have.
I am here for the long haul through the ups and downs.
I'll just tell you guys and you'll hear about this a little
bit more, I guess, in episode 205, where I'm going to kind of
do a little bit of a recap. But I have been struggling here
the past few months on a number of different things, trying to
figure out what the future is asit relates to my professional
(01:03:51):
life, to how I interact with thepodcast.
I'm going to continue to do it forever because I'm committed to
it and it's a passion of mine. But figuring that out has put
some toll on just, I guess my mental health a little bit.
Have done some counseling. Anyway, don't want to open too
much on this episode about that.But I think that episode 2 O 5
(01:04:14):
is going to be pretty interesting because I'm going to
try to open up deeply about someof those things and share a lot
of the wisdom and tidbits and things that I have heard.
And I'm trying to practice, practice based on the
conversations I've had. So thanks for being here.
Thanks again to Josh for coming on the pod.
And yeah, we'll catch you guys in the next 1.
See ya.
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