Episode #137 - Adam Campbell, Athlete & Product Specialist for Arc’teryx, Lawyer, Adventurer, Writer, Public Speaker, Coach - Stupid Questions with Seth Hill

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
How's it going everybody? And welcome back to another
edition of the Stupid Questions podcast Today and The Pop.
We're going to be talking with Adam Campbell.
He is a professional trail runner, former professional
triathlete, ultra runner, Mountaineer, Alpinus.
The guy has done it all. He also works with architects on
product development and a numberof other things.
Really interesting guy. He goes really vulnerable with
me. We get to talk about him getting

(00:22):
struck by lightning. We talk about him having crazy
100 plus foot falls, but he cameback from and yeah, it's just
different tragedies in his life.Not to speak too lightly of
them, but losing his wife in 2020, which is a terrible thing,
but it also comes around with the joy because he is now
engaged to be married again. So really appreciate Adam coming

(00:43):
on and sharing his story. And I won't give away too many
more details, but I hope you really enjoyed this heartfelt,
meaningful conversation with Adam Campbell.
I have I have to be done at 10:30.
Yeah, that's totally fine. Cool.
Yeah, Yeah. 10:30 Pacific, right?
Pacific, Yeah, yeah, an hour anda.
Half. OK, Cool.
Yeah, Yeah, awesome. Thanks for making the time.

(01:03):
Of course. Well, I guess no one else will
hear the previous conversation that we started before my
Internet totally crapped out on us.
But I guess I should say again, thank you for making the time to
come on and have a chat. Looking forward to diving into
your story. As I was doing more research, I
was like, man, I there's definitely not enough time to
ask all these questions, but I'mreally looking forward to it

(01:24):
because there's just so much content and it could go a
million different ways. So thank you for making the
time. Oh, well, no, thanks.
Thanks for having me. And yeah, no, I mean, that's
kind of everybody has has different stories to tell.
Yeah, I guess it depends what sort of how broad or how deep
you want to go on anything, so. Oh man, if there's one thing I
like, it's going deep, so I lookforward to jumping into it for

(01:44):
sure. But yeah.
So how you doing right now man? No, things are good.
Yeah, No, I'm actually kind of an exciting time.
I I just recently got engaged. Congratulations, that's all.
That thanks. Yeah, no, it's exciting.
And I think, you know, you're talking a little bit about sort
of the the spectrum of life. And I definitely have been able
to experience that. And, you know, part of that

(02:06):
spectrum is experiencing, you know, love and happiness and
lucky to be in a place where I get to experience that so.
Yeah, that's awesome, man. So where are you at right now?
I'm in Squamish at our home in Squamish, BC I've been living
here for about four years and yeah, it's a really, really
special part of the world. For anybody who doesn't know,
it's just sort of like northwestof Vancouver, in between

(02:31):
Vancouver and Whistler. We're right at the end of the
house down, so we're on the ocean, but like right where the
the mountains meet the ocean. So it's a fjord and yeah, it's a
really, it's a really famous sort of like adventure sports
capital in North America and especially in Canada.
We've got world class rock climbing right here.
The chief is sort of like the Yosemite of Canada, big granite

(02:54):
domes. We've got the ocean.
So really a lot of people are really into like wind sports
here, a lot of kiting. We don't have like surfing
waves, but like really, really strong winds being at the end of
a fjord world class kayaking because we've got big glaciated
peaks that all melt off. Obviously the trail running and
mountain biking is, is very famous.
And the one thing people don't know is we actually have really,

(03:16):
really good Backcountry skiing right in our backyard as well.
There's a little gondola that goes from the ocean up 1000
meters, so like over 3000 feet and that takes you above the
rainforest into snow line. And then we've got a little
mountain range back there that you can go and do some amazing
ski touring, you know, steep skiing if you're under that, a

(03:37):
little bit of mountaineering andit, it makes for amazing Alpine
access in the summer. And also the cool thing is you
can hike up a really steep trail.
So it goes up about, you know, once again, 1000 meters and like
just under 2 miles or around 2 miles.
And best part about it is I'm allowed to take my dog on the
gondola so I can. That's awesome.

(03:58):
It takes about an hour to to hike up at like, a bit of a, you
know, if you're kind of hurrying, 40 minutes if you're
really, really trying to sort ofrun.
Yeah, But you can head up there and the dog loves it, so it's
awesome. That's really neat.
What kind of dog do you have? A red heeler.
Her name is Scarlett. Yeah, nice.
I think I. See she came, she came with.
Luckily I inherited the dog withwith the the fiance so.

(04:23):
OK, nice past puppy stage or we got.
Yeah, she's 5, but she's a healer, so there's still some
psycho in herself. Yeah, that's awesome, man.
Yeah, Well, dude, So just reading a little bit about you
and even just from the past couple of minutes of things,
even sharing there, there's a lot to do.
But you have been involved in the world's triathlon, duathlon,

(04:46):
mountaineering, ultra running, sky running, as you call it,
like so many different things. So for you, I guess my first
question is like, who is Adam? I mean, who's Adam?
I mean, I'm, I'm somebody who's just like really deeply curious
person. And, you know, I, you know, part
of my curiosity involves I'm expressing myself physically and

(05:09):
moving through environments and exploring that way.
And I've been lucky to get to experience life in a, in a
variety of different forms. You know, I, I go deep.
I, I grew up in, in West Africa.I grew up in, in Lagos, Nigeria.
Both my parents were Canadian, but I was born, I was, well, I
was born in England and we movedto Nigeria when I was nine

(05:32):
months old. So from a very young age, you
know, I kind of lived, I guess an alternative different style
of, of, I don't know. Then a lot of typical North
American kids, you know, travelled around Africa quite a
bit. And we, we had a sort of, I
don't know, best way of describing it's like a summer

(05:52):
home, a vacation home in, in southern Spain.
So we'd go to Spain for most of our vacations.
And that's sort of where I firstfell in love with sort of the
mountains 'cause it was up in the hills in southern Spain.
And yeah, so it that I don't know.
Yeah, yes, that's right. I guess something is, you know,

(06:13):
been fortunate to travel the world quite extensively
throughout my life. Still a, you know, proud
Canadian, but, you know, you have a Maple Leaf and
everything. But I, yeah, just deeply curious
about about the world. And part of that is expressing
myself physically. So.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So the outdoors is obviously a big piece of who you are.

(06:33):
And it sounds like, like you said when you were younger,
getting to Spain at a relativelyyoung age, like that started to
and still knew maybe the love for the mountains and everything
that that can entail. But what is it about the
outdoors that like you really enjoy that drives you to be
motivated to do the things you do?
And also like when when specifically do you have like a

(06:54):
few set of memories or experiences you had that really
kind of cemented in your mind? Like, oh, the outdoors is
something that motivates me or like it gets me driven to to go
and figure out what else there is.
Yeah. I mean, so for people who don't
know, and Nigeria is in West Africa, kind of the joke is it's
the armpit of Africa, just like the way Africa kind of curves

(07:18):
and it, you know, it's had some political instability and things
over the, over the years, but it's where I grew up.
The Lagos is right on the coast.So I grew up on the ocean.
So ironically, my, my childhood was actually in the tropics on,
on beaches and I grew up sailingand sort of playing in the
ocean. And I think that's probably
where my initial love of the outdoors came from.

(07:39):
You know, we also had, you know,like a backyard with, you know,
like tropical trees and things like that.
So I spent a lot of my childhoodjust playing outside, playing
soccer and, you know, just playing in the waves.
And I think I, I first felt my like, sense of freedom through
sailing. We sailed lasers and hobby cats.
So hobby sixteens. He's like little catamaran
boats. And I think there's just, you

(08:02):
know, as a, as a kid being able to get on the ocean, you know,
this incredible expanse of, of water and getting to interact
with the elements. And, you know, it's, it's
interesting because you're at the mercy of the elements.
But so it's sort of learning howto dance with them, which is
what sailing and, you know, racing sailboats is all about
sort of reading the signs that nature is giving you.

(08:23):
And so I, I think I first came to really appreciate the
outdoors through that. And then one childhood memory
that I I have, which was pretty strong, is from a young age, I
don't remember exactly how old Iwas, but my dad and I walked
from the ocean up to our house in Spain.
And it felt like it was like climbing a mountain, you know,
and it was a for, for a little kid, you know, say it was like 4

(08:45):
or five. It was like a really, really
deep, profound memory for me. And I think I just blabbed the
entire way up the, the mountain.And but it was sort of the first
like hard thing I remember doing.
And yeah, I think that was it sort of.
It was one of those like funny memories that had like a lasting
effect on me. Yeah, it's interesting how we do
experience so many things, but those like key little keystone

(09:07):
memories, especially around childhood because you don't, we
don't remember everything obviously from like younger
ages, but five's pretty young. But it's cool to see how those
things do impact the way that wekind of view the world as we get
older that. Was probably actually 12 but you
know my mind. OK?
The memory is also. We also lie to ourselves.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it does matter.
The story is better if I was 5, you know?

(09:28):
Yeah. Exactly.
No, I like that. I like the visual.
Were you an only child? I know I have AI have a younger
brother. Yeah.
He, yeah. And we're, we're, we're quite
close. It's funny because we, we have
gone through the slightly different paths in life, but
we're still very, very close. We spend a lot of our, our
childhood together. And, you know, just especially

(09:51):
having a bit of a unique upbringing, you know, we spend a
lot of time playing together. We're fighting life, fighting,
whatever you want to call it. And I think that we're our
interests were different enough growing up and our personalities
were different enough that we weren't actually quite, we
weren't actually competitive with each other, if that makes
sense. Yeah.
Or I was just better at sports than him so.
Yeah, so you said different paths like what?

(10:13):
What, What is, what are the differences?
Like what kind of a path is he on still?
Oh, well, I mean, so actually it's kind of cool.
He he's just recently taken up running, but and he just ran 1/2
marathon on the weekend and he'sdoing a trail running race.
So I'm, I'm super just one of those like proud Big Brother
moments. But you know, he went, he's more
into CrossFit and like really focused on, on business
interests and is a family with three kids and all of his kids.

(10:37):
He's he's married to a Swedish woman, but all three of his kids
were born in Thailand. They were living in Bangkok and
he was involved in business there.
He met his Swedish wife in China, but they now have
relocated to southern Spain. So they actually live close to
my dad, my brother's in the realestate world down there.

(10:58):
OK cool. Is your your mom in the picture
as well? Yeah, no, My mom lives on
Vancouver Island. So my mom, my parents split up
and I was 16 or 17 and my mom left Nigeria, moved to Canada
and now lives. It's not, it's not actually that
far away from where we are, but it's a fairy ride.
Yeah, away. So yeah, it's about an hour and

(11:19):
a half ferry from here and a really beautiful fairy ride.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, gorgeous part.
I have some friends who live up in the Orcas Island, if you know
where that is, I'm sure. Totally.
Yeah, Yeah, there's actually a really quite a well known 50K
and 100 Miller the Orcas on Orcas Island.
Yeah, that lives just so side inVictoria, BC OK, so it was a big
triathlon hub, a big training hub over there, some great, you

(11:42):
know, great 70 point threes. And it's actually I, you know,
that's where I first got really serious into sport was on.
It was in Victoria training at the National Triathlon Center
and, you know, got to meet the likes of, you know, like Simon
Whitfield, who became one of my best friends and Greg Bennett
was there and we had people likeHamish Carter coming through and
Craig Walton and Peter Reed and Lori Bowden and Jasper Blake.

(12:07):
So I think it's like, you know, and Kirsten Sweetland and Paula
Finley spent some time there. So it was just this like really
interesting hub of of high performance sport, but I got
immersed in. Yeah.
What was your first interaction with the sport of triathlon and
like what got you into it? Yeah, so I, you know, from a
young age you, you know, you're,you know, like if I've, I've

(12:29):
always really enjoyed running, you know, sort of, you know,
running the mile and, you know, soccer practice.
I was, I was a guy who like doing extra laps and stuff.
And I grew up swimming in the ocean.
But yeah, so triathlon sort of came to me in a bit of a funny
way. I was working for Outward Bound
doing canoe guiding 1 summer when I was 18, just turning 19.

(12:53):
It's sort of the very end of high school and I was in this
remote part of Northern Ontario and there was a guy there
training for a triathlon. And so in between our our sort
of canoe trips, you know, be gone for like 5 days to 30 days
depending on the trip we were on.
When we were back at our sort ofbase camp, I would train with

(13:15):
him and we go for these like really fun runs along dirt
paths. And I had like a really crappy
mountain bike that would sort ofpeddle along the, you know, the
dusty roads along and then swimming in the lake.
And when I finished this, I signed up for a triathlon.
It happened to be the the Canadian Junior Triathlon
Championships, which I was sort of unaware of at the time.

(13:36):
And this is back when juniors were still doing Olympic
distance races. And it was stupidly hot out.
You know, it was, I don't, I don't know Fahrenheit, but it
was about 40° Celsius, 100% humidity.
Just crazy. 90°. Yeah, 90, maybe, maybe higher
than hotter than 90. And yeah, anyway, basically just

(13:58):
became this giant race of attrition.
And having grown up in Africa, being a smaller guy, I end up
having a good result and qualifying for the Canadian
junior national team at that race.
And this was in 1999 and I got to compete at the World
Championships, which were held in Montreal that year.
They were on the the F1 circuit.That's cool.

(14:22):
And so this was the year before the 2000 Olympics where
triathlon was making his debut. And Simon qualified himself for
the Olympics. At that race, I think he had to
finish, you know, top ten or something and at the world
champs, and he ended up finishing eighth.
And I remember it was a really cool race between Simon Lessing
and Dimitri Gag. And there's sort of all these,

(14:45):
like, tactics. And it basically came down to a
running race just based on the nature of the circuit.
And yeah, there was like, all these, like, you know, people
are surging and stuff. I was like, oh, this is the
coolest sport ever, you know? And getting to watch Simon
qualify was, it was really cool.And then the next year, I had
started college at Queen's University, which is in

(15:07):
Kingston, ON. And that's where that's Simon's
hometown and watching Simon win the Olympic gold there.
I've gotten more heavily into triathlon at this point.
I was like, I'm into this sport.I want to commit to it a little
bit and join the training group And was, you know, starting to
actually train more, learning how to train essentially at a

(15:28):
great, you know, coach, mentor at the time, Randy Sabukovich.
And there were also Sharon Donnelly, who qualified for the
Canadian Olympic team, was from Kingston, and Jamie Cleveland,
who was a top ranked Canadian Iron Man athlete at the time.
We're all training there. And so I instantly got into this

(15:48):
once again, high performance culture.
That lifestyle? Yeah, it was.
It was cool. And then getting to cheer on
Simon, you know, it's pretty wild.
And then I got to meet him laterthat fall, which kind of changed
my life quite dramatically, actually.
So yeah. How so?
Well, I was, I was on the university cross country team

(16:09):
and Simon came out and ran with us.
And I, you know, we did a few intervals and I was sort of
keeping up with Simon, or at least in my mind, I was keeping
up with him probably like a Bender after winning an Olympic
gold, was totally exhausted. And it was, you know, kind of
being nice to us. But anyway, we, we did this
interval workout and, you know, we got to chatting and he's

(16:30):
like, Oh yeah, you're into triathlon.
And he's like, you're a pretty decent runner.
You should take the triathlon thing a bit more seriously if
you want. We have this training group out
in Victoria and which is on the other side of the country for
anybody who doesn't know, you know, it's, I don't know, 4000

(16:50):
kilometers West of where we are.And that sounded much more
interesting to me than than university at the time, which I
was. I was very much just deep into
the triathlon world or into intotraining.
And yeah, so I, you know, he kind of mulled this over a

(17:11):
little bit and talked to my coach about it.
And he's like, is it kind of a cool opportunity?
And so I literally packed my bags and flew across the country
and phoned Simon and said, I'm here.
I was like, well, I'm at the Victoria airport.
And he's like, well, do you havea place to stay?
And I'm like, well, not really. And ended up crashing at Simon's
place. Nice.

(17:32):
Perfect. Yeah, it was just kind of wild.
And then, yeah, showing up on the the pool deck for next
morning and literally seeing, you know, Greg Bennett and and
Simon and like Brent McMahon andall these people in the pools,
like, Oh my God. So it was pretty cool, yeah.
If you were to break up the sources of motivation into
almost like percentages, those being, you know, a percentage of

(17:57):
the motivation to go out there was like, oh, I as an
individual, like I feel like I can do this.
And then obviously, it sounds like Simon was a pivotal
influence and like getting you to to make that step into this
world. So maybe you wanted to, I don't
know, connect with him, be cool,whatever it was.
Like, how would you break up those different pieces of
motivation? And like, what was the biggest
chunk of the reason you think that you decide to make that

(18:19):
jump? Well.
I think there's a few. I think also it was it was
outside belief, you know, it wasjust people telling me that, you
know, you could do this something interesting.
And so I had her is just had a really good coach in Kingston.
And Randy Zabukovich, I had talked to Lance Watson, who is
coaching at the National Center and out there and, you know,
same thing. He's like, oh, yeah, you know,

(18:40):
you've got some fast running, which, you know, sort of
critical to the sport. And obviously having the Olympic
gold medalist saying, you know, you might have you should come
and check this out. We're, you know, pretty, yeah,
you know, pretty big drivers. And, you know, I was also lucky
in that my family supported it, you know, and we're like, yeah,
if, you know, if it's something you want to pursue, you know, go
for it. But, you know, it's like with

(19:04):
like a lot of hesitation. But, you know, they, they helped
me financially to actually make that happen, which is really,
you know, I was really fortunatefor as well.
And also my, my partner at the time was also, her name was
Lauren Groves. And she ended up qualifying for
for the Beijing Olympics as well.
So, you know, she was also, you know, she also kind of believed

(19:27):
in the program. So there was a few like, factors
and then, you know, yeah. And also, I think maybe having,
once again, it's really hard to know, but maybe having LED a bit
of an unconventional life, you know, I was more willing to go
down a different path as well. And I just, as I said, I wasn't
feeling super motivated by academia at the time, which was

(19:47):
funny because I'd always been very academically driven and I'd
always really loved school. But for whatever reason, college
wasn't quite clicking with me. And maybe I just wasn't in the
right environment or I'd found this new passion.
And so, you know, I think, you know, a lot of it was just kind
of curiosity to follow this passion.
Yeah. And so talk to me a little bit

(20:08):
about the expectations you had or kind of the vision in your
mind for what this was going to be versus what it actually ended
up being. Well, I mean, the vision for
what it was going to be was I was going to become world
champion in, you know, six months and, you know, it was
going. To be 6 months.
Start crushing. Start crushing.
Simon Yeah, the reality. Put him in the grave.
Yeah, exactly. The reality is they were much

(20:30):
fitter, much better trained and just more talented.
But I was, yeah, in, in that area of sport.
And, you know, I, I quickly realized that, you know, the,
the level of work required to get there and just the amount of
hard training but those guys didwas it was something else.
And it was really, really impressive.
And then I also learned though, that there was like other sides

(20:52):
to the sport as well. You know, I really learnt about
the profession of being a professional athlete.
So there's the, you know, the physical performance side of it.
But then watching Simon, you know, constantly doing media
interviews, dealing with sponsors, same with people like
Peter Reed, you know, navigatingagents at different times and,

(21:12):
you know, doing it with different levels of success, you
know, and sort of how they made,how they actually made it work
was really interesting. And, you know, at that point,
race results were still like a really key driver of, you know,
what you're, you know, sort of how much money you make in the
sport, you know, like, you know,'cause you appear in magazines

(21:34):
and that kind of stuff. And that has shifted quite a
bit, you know, since the, since 2000.
You know, there's much, you know, like there was very, I
think I probably signed up for my first Facebook account in
like 2002, 2003. And it was a very different
platform then than it, than it is now.
The same with things like, you know, what was, what was on

(21:57):
Twitter. I remember Simon convinced me to
get on Twitter for the first time saying that was a great
place to sort of share what you're doing training wise and
stuff. But yeah, so it was, it was a
very different media and sponsorship landscape back then,
yeah. So I'm curious with, if you
don't mind me asking and kind ofprying a little bit, but with
the sports stuff, obviously there's a lot of demands

(22:19):
physically, mentally, businesslyfiguring out what that looks
like. There's a lot of discipline
required. And oftentimes I found that
going through adversity is what really gives us the tools and
the ability to have a different perspective and a different game
plan for how to move forward. So like you said, when you were,
I think you were 16, like your parents separated and 16 is a

(22:41):
very pivotal age, especially fora man.
And I've heard it also like him too.
Whenever there's divorces that happen, sometimes it's even like
there's a death in the family. It's like this real, you're
trying to like grapple with all that.
So as you are growing up and coming to this place of getting
serious in the triathlon, there's not a huge gap in years
there. How did that inform or how did

(23:01):
that affect the the kind of the goals and the directions that
you took with triathlon? Yeah.
So interestingly, I so I'd gone away to boarding school at that
point. So yeah.
So I left Nigeria when I was 16 and I went to boarding school in
Canada. And so I actually wasn't around
for like, you know, what I thinkwas like quite a acrimonious

(23:24):
time between my parents and, youknow, I think it was kind of it
was a messy split up and my brother was was there for that.
And I think it had a bigger direct impact on him.
My dog just made an appearance in the background.
I love it. It'll be perfect, Scarlet.
Yeah, it's good to have a supervisor.

(23:44):
But I, yeah, I would say going to boarding school, you know,
was that did change my sort of direction quite dramatically.
And I became quite independent and I didn't see my parents that
much after that. But where maybe it did have an
impact is because my parents were kind of finding themselves
after being married for a numberof years, maybe they actually

(24:05):
had a bigger tolerance for me kind of going down my own path
as well. Had they been together or a
different like maybe, maybe theywould have been like, no, you
got to stay on this like academic path and not as being
as supportive of me questioning on my own because they, as I
say, they were on their own lifequest.
My mom, you know, went back to university, you know, after my

(24:25):
mom and my dad met when they were night when she was 19.
She never went to college. So she went back to college.
So we were actually going through university at the same
time, which is kind of cool. Yeah.
And she actually got her her undergrad a little bit before me
because I dropped out. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So I so I, it did have an

(24:46):
impact, but not necessarily maybe in the way that you're,
you know, maybe leaning towards so that.
Makes sense. Yeah, for sure.
No, no, no. Yeah.
Thanks for sharing that. It's interesting just hearing
the different perspectives. And yeah, the independence is a
huge thing. And you alluded to the fact that
there was a little bit of hesitation from your parents in
terms of the, the direction thatyou were taking.

(25:08):
What point? And maybe I'm sure it has
arrived now, but at what point do you did you feel, especially
from your dad, like a sense of, oh, he's proud of me or like I
made the right decision and he he really accepts what I'm
doing? Yeah, well, no.
So I think he's always accepted what I what I'm doing.
You know, he he's always been a very and same with my mom, you

(25:30):
know, very open minded. I'm kind of just trust me to
make, you know, smart life, lifechoices and sort of go down a
path. But you know, they've, they've
also, as I say, I've been reallyfortunate.
I've done this with a safety net, you know, through, through
a large chunk of it. My family did, you know, my, my

(25:51):
dad and my grandpa especially, we're both, you know, very
academically driven people like my dad, you know, went to law
school as a, as a masters and a masters of law.
And my grandpa was a Canadian ambassador.
And it was, it was a diplomat and, you know, in the, in the
Canadian foreign service and then, you know, involved deeply

(26:11):
in the civil service back in Canada.
And so I think he, he questioneda lot more like, what the heck
is this guy doing? I'm throwing my life away.
And, you know, he's like, oh, you're always like a top
student, and now you're choosingto run around in a Speedo.
Generational difference there. Exactly.
Yeah, No, it wasn't. I I think that there was maybe

(26:33):
some questions there, but at thesame time, I think they saw my
passion and, and we're supportive of that.
And, you know, they've always come and said my dad and, you
know, followed his passions and his passion stuck him to took
him to work abroad internationally.
And so I think he was, he respected that.
Yeah. Respected.

(26:54):
A huge key, a huge piece of it for sure to at least for me.
So with your mom and your dad, who who are you more like?
I'm more like my dad. I'm definitely more like my dad.
Yeah, my mom is my biggest supporter 100%.
But I'm I'm definitely more likemy my dad.
Yeah. So you said your dad was a

(27:15):
lawyer, and I believe that you also are a lawyer, Is that
correct? Yeah, correct.
So with the triathlon thing, I, I gave it a very good shot on
the World Cup circuit and you know, I won a Canadian duathlon
championship and, but I was justnever really able to nail the
swim in, in IT racing. And while I became like a decent

(27:36):
swimmer, you know, I, I think I swam like 1830 or 1845 for a
1500. That's really not cutting it at
the World Cup level. And what I really lacked was
explosive power, especially at the start of swims, like I could
never swim, you know, like I I could do maybe like a one O 500
meters, which, you know, you're already 10 seconds off the back.

(27:57):
And being a smaller guy was justgetting pummeled.
And it's not like, you know, I'malso 100 and, you know, 20 at
the time, it was like 120 lbs. So I wasn't exactly pushing out
the big watch to be able to, youknow, close the gaps.
So if the race was really hot and if the bike packs came
together, I could sometimes use my run to get a decent result
at, you know, like a lower ranked ITU race.

(28:19):
But I was just never able to be competitive in the ITU circuit.
So I gave it a go until about 2006, and then my partner at the
time, Lauren, was doing quite well on the IT circuit and it
looked like she was going to be qualifying for the Olympics.
And so I essentially retired from triathlon at that point and

(28:43):
became the national team managerso I could still support her and
Simon and my other friends who were trying to qualify for the
Olympics. And through that, I, I went back
and took some college courses tosort of, you know, get my, to do
something. I also started trail running at
the time. I'd always loved trail running

(29:05):
and I wanted to stay fit. I didn't want to, you know, I've
always loved, I've always loved training the most.
Like, I just love training. I love being physical.
And trail running was the aspectof our training that I enjoyed
the most. And it seemed like the longer
our runs went, the better I did relative to the other, you know,
athletes. Diesel engine.

(29:27):
Yeah, I signed up for first marathon and actually Greg
Bennett coached me to my first marathon, which is pretty cool
and jumped in some trail runningraces and made the Canadian
mountain running team at that time as well.
But I also wrote the Lsats and in writing the LSAT, I, I got a

(29:47):
fairly decent score. And there's a couple
universities in Canada where youdon't actually need an
undergraduate degree to go to law school.
You just have to have done a couple years.
And I've had like an interestinglife story and I've done and,
you know, done well on the LSAT.And luckily I was able to write
a decent enough letter, had enough sort of letters of

(30:08):
recommendation and got accepted to law school as well.
So right after the Beijing Olympics, where, unfortunately,
Lauren crashed and broke her collarbone and and wrist and,
you know, wasn't able to finish and Simon, you know, got a
silver medal, but, you know, another sort of amazing Sprint
finish with Ian Ferdino. I started law school that fall.

(30:31):
So yeah. Yeah, Do you?
When you got back into the academic world, just because of
the life experience you had, didyou find it more like you were
obviously pretty motivated and driven, or was it, did it, Was
it hard? Yeah, I absolutely loved it.
Yeah. I was super psyched to be there.
You know, I, I was, I think I was 29.
Yeah, I was 29 when I went back to school.

(30:52):
I was super driven. I found everything I was
studying so interesting. I found law school just
absolutely fascinating. And yeah, I was, I was all in.
I was all in on law school and still, you know, running trails
and and doing the mountain racing thing at the time.
But yeah, I loved it. It's so interesting.
I wish that it was almost a requirement for all college age

(31:16):
students to me, because I think a lot of college age students
like you naturally have some genetic fitness because you're
younger, you metabolism, time, whatnot.
But I wish it was a requirement to do some type of some type of
a sport physically, because I feel like it enables you to have
the ability to process and just go through things that are
academic a bit easier. At least that was the case for

(31:37):
me when I first started school. Hated it.
Started actually being a little active.
Like I found it much more easy to focus, get some of the energy
down, get it down to the base needs of what's going on with
the physical body and being ableto sit there and focus.
Yeah. Well, I, I don't necessarily
know. And so I think, you know, I
think we, we maybe have a physical bias.
I think having some sort of an outlet is, is huge.

(31:58):
So for some people that could beart, some people it could be
music, you know, or, or writing,but I think different people,
you know, it could be going for a walk.
You know, I think we're, we maybe have a bias towards like,
you know, high output physical activity and, and that's, and
we're really lucky to have that as an outlet.
But I do think having something outside of just pure academia

(32:20):
helps a massive amount for that processing time.
And yeah, I do. I do think that everybody should
be out walking more, but I also think that a lot of athletes
should be spending more time cultivating arts as well and
doing some drawing. Maybe you're doing some writing.
I think we could all afford to be better rounded humans.

(32:44):
Yeah, for sure. So are you artistic, musical.
Any of those? No.
So I'm not musical at all. I really enjoy writing and I
have been doing, I do a little bit of sketching and drawing and
painting, but like, I'm like, you know, I'm not, I'm not good
at it, but I do enjoy doing it on occasion.
Actually, funny enough, it was like about a month ago, my

(33:05):
fiance and I went to a art classand we did a watercolor night.
And I was blown away how actually, sorry, there's oil
painting. There's oil painting, not a
watercolor's oil painting, but three hours just disappeared.
What I ended up with was very basic, not at all anybody else
in the class, but it was awesome.

(33:27):
It was just a really cool outlet.
And yeah, so I do do a little bit of sketching here and there,
but yeah, not, not a lot, but. Yeah, when you draw and sketch,
do you erase or do you always keep what's going and and just
try to add and adjust? No, I just add and adjust.
Yeah, No, I, I love the mistakes.
I think the mistakes are a superinteresting part of it.

(33:48):
I mean, with my writing, I'll doa lot more editing of it because
I typically I, I like to share and post the writing I do.
But with my drawing, it's personal.
Yeah. So, yeah.
But even even with my writing though, I find I often will post

(34:08):
something I kind of just believein just like getting it out
there and then I will potentially keep editing it a
little bit once it's posted. But I kind of just like to, you
know, there's some like courage and just sharing it.
Yeah, not 100%. Yeah, it's super interesting.
I, I enjoy writing as well. And normally though, I post it
because I think it's done and then I get it out there and I'm
like, oh, look at all those mistakes and I'm trying to edit

(34:29):
it post after I do it because yeah, whatever the dyslexia and
whatnot. But it's interesting.
I asked about the drawing because one of the most
important lessons I think that my father taught me because he
was an artist, he did watercolorand painting and drawing and
whatnot. And when at a young age, you
know, I'm comparing everything that I'm putting down to his and
it just looked like absolutely marvelous.

(34:51):
And then I look at mine, I'm like, oh, this just looks like
chicken scratch. And so you're constantly erasing
the same line trying to get it perfectly straight or whatever
it is. But it was a valuable lesson
because I realized that with theright artistic view and
patience, something that you initially start to draw and work
the wireframe for, it doesn't look that impressive.
But as you start to add the accents and you add more

(35:13):
overtime, like you can transfer it into something or create and
transform it into something muchmore beautiful.
And that only is enabled withouterasing.
And I feel like that was such a lesson for life, like to be able
to not just want to throw out the baby with the bathwater and
you know, restart in the beginning, like adding stuff to
that house or that room in the house or whatever, adding
different furniture pieces, adding different lighting.

(35:34):
Like it can change the entire view of what you've got that
you're creating. Yeah, I mean, and the one thing
I think that our our art and theway we probably approach these
things is quite a good reflection of sort of what our
personalities are like some I amI'm not a very organized person
or I have my own form of organization which is

(35:55):
disorganized, whereas my brotheris a very, very organized
person. Like he needs to know where
everything is at all times and likes to have like a lot of
planning and he's very artistic,but his art is very linear with
what he does, you know, and it'svery like angular and it, I
think he will have an end point in mind and he will try to make

(36:18):
his art as close to the end point in, in mind as possible,
you know, and he will, he'll work towards that.
Whereas with my drawing I'm veryI I may have like an idea of
something I want to draw, like aa tree or something, but I've
never actually ended up with anything that looks at.

(36:39):
All like it, yeah. I kind of just follow the
vagaries of whatever happens, and a large part of that's just
I'm not trained or talented enough to actually know how to
manipulate the paint or the colors or the lines to actually
end up where I want. So I end up having to follow
them where they want to go instead.
Yeah, No, that makes sense. Yeah, No, I've been there.

(37:03):
It's interesting, like you said,the angular stuff, like I'm very
much like that, lots of shapes and just weird looking stuff
when it, but I love look going back afterwards and like, oh
wow, did I draw that? Oh, that's interesting.
But it's with the more abstract stuff.
You can always look at it differently each time and you
kind of something else kind of stands out to you, which sounds
a little woo woo. And some people may not like art

(37:23):
and or even this discussion, butI am fascinated with the fact
that you can always go back and look at something visually
later. And depending on the frame of
mindset that I'm in, I will see something different.
And yeah. I mean, you know, it is
interesting. I think also with things like
art, you know, what we're told from a young age, you know, like
you're told that you're an artist or you're a musical or
not has like a really big impactlater on in life.

(37:44):
And the other thing I really enjoy doing is, you know, you
say some people say they don't like art.
I, I'm just, I'm, I'm so curiousas to why like explore those
points of resistance. What is it about art that you
don't like? What bothers you about it?
And sort of going down that pathand sort of uncovering that I
think can answer some really interesting questions for you.

(38:04):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Why do you think people don't
like art? Well, once, yeah.
I mean, it's a very, very personal thing.
Some people don't like the subjectivity of it.
You know, some people, once again, may have been told from a
young age that they weren't great artists or they, they were
trying to compare themselves to somebody and it just didn't work
out. Well.
Like I was told from a young ageby one of my early musical

(38:25):
teachers that I'm just not very musical.
And that's like stuck with me. And I have this like big
resistance towards music and like, I'm not like I, you know,
I legitimately know I can't carry a tune, but I but that
holds me back from my ever trying, you know, which is,
which is interesting and kind oftoo bad.
Talk to me a little bit about the power of belief and the

(38:48):
power of words that you have or we have on others and that
others have on us. I mean, I think it I think it's
everything, you know, we are we're just like a a compilation
of narratives that we tell ourselves and stories that we
tell ourselves or that other people have told us.
You know, you can do some introspection, but if

(39:09):
influential people in your life,teachers, parents, grandparents,
whoever, friends tell you something that does shape, you
know, the direction that you endup going in life.
So I do think that those words can really have like and even
saying a stranger says, I mean, imagine if somebody walked up to
you, like a total random person walked up to you and you're, I
don't know, 12 and says you're ugly, you know, like that would

(39:31):
like you would remember that. Yeah, that's impactful for sure.
That would be impactful. That would like, you know, like
really stay with you for for a large part and maybe part of you
be like, why did that person saythat maybe I am ugly, maybe I've
done something. So I do think that that those
things can have like a big shapecan really shape who you are.
Yeah. For the positive or negative,
Yeah. But then also your reaction to

(39:52):
them as well can deeply impact you.
It'd be like, imagine if as a 12year old, you're like, OK, that
person said that that's too bad for them, but they feel that
way. I believe that I am beautiful.
You know, that would also be like a really profound moment in
your life. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And it totally, I mean, some people just naturally have, I
think a lot of grit and resilience to be able to resist

(40:13):
that. But often times I think that
comes from like power experienceor people who are like speaking
that level of life back into whoyou are as an individual.
Like having someone reaffirming,especially like the father and
mother figures in our life. I feel like those are so
important to just giving us the tools as we get older to be able
to combat some of those negativevoices that we end up believing

(40:36):
about ourselves. Because it's amazing.
You can say five good things andthen one negative thing kind of
just erases it just by the laws of however the emotion tends to
work. It's pretty wild.
I just just read the. Just look at the comments on.
Oh dude. I wonder if that stays with you.
Literally, we have probably over100 reviews now.

(40:57):
And I for I, for whatever reason, a few weeks ago I was
going through some of the analytics just kind of seeing
where things were at. And I read this one terrible
review and it just wrecked me ina way that made me so very
uncomfortable because I typically would consider myself
like a pretty gritful guy, but Ijust, I don't know, I guess I

(41:18):
was living in this space where Ithought everybody would like
what I'm doing all the time, butfor whatever reason, found it or
not, that person wrote that terrible review.
And it just, man, it messed withme.
And so I realized, like, I can'tread those anymore because it's
not healthy. The good and the bad ones, by
the way, because I think that. Yeah, you.
Can also get like an, I don't know, false sense of inflated
ego or whatever. Positive.
Yeah, exactly. You can pay people people for

(41:39):
good reviews too. So yeah, what does it actually
mean? So around this topic of mindset
and belief, you have again gone through some crazy things like
2014. I'd love to hear about this
situation where you got struck by lightning.
First of all, what's it like to be struck by lightning?
Yeah. So I can give it a little bit of
context. So I was, I was doing a race

(42:00):
called the Hard Rock 100, which is, you know, it's arguably it's
one of the more challenging 100 milers, which is already an
oxymoron, oxymoron in itself. But you you cover, there's about
33,000 feet of elevation gain and loss over the course of 100
miles and you're at an average elevation of 11,000 feet.

(42:22):
It's in the San Juan Mountains in Colorado.
There's 140 or 114 participants in the race.
So it's a really small field andit's an incredibly beautiful
race. Typically the second or third
week in July, she had these beautiful wildflowers and you go
over a 14,000 foot peak called Handy's Peak.

(42:43):
And this particular year you so the race alternates directions
every year. So this particular year we were
approaching Handy's Peak around mile 60.
So you know, 2/3 of the way and you know you've already run 60
miles, which is a pretty decent length of time to have, you
know, running in the mountains. I had 11,000 feet. 11,000 feet

(43:06):
yeah. And so you you pick up a pacer
because you're going to be running through the night and
you're quite remote and so you're allowed to have somebody
come and pace you. They can't carry anything for
you, but they can be with you for safety reasons.
And as we are approaching this peak, the sun was just setting.
And if anybody's been in the mountains in, in Colorado or in

(43:28):
the West, that's typically a time when you want to be out of
the mountains. You'll often get like really
violent thunderstorms in the in the area.
And but this being a race, you know, you don't really get to
pick when you're going to be going through the high country.
And we could see a storm off in the distance.
And we thought that we'd probably be fine to get up and
over the peak and get down to the other side.

(43:50):
And so as we're approaching the summit, all of a sudden, the
wind really started to pick up. And we stopped to put on
windbreakers and put our headlamps on.
And we were maybe 200 feet from the summit.
And it started to just lash rain.
It got really, really cold. And we saw this summit get
struck by lightning. And we're like, yeah, that's
really, really bad. There was nowhere.
There was nowhere of a shelter at the time.

(44:12):
As I say, it's a bit of a Dome peak.
There's no real rocks to hide behind or anything.
So we decided to push up and over the peak because we knew
there was some boulders on the other side.
And so as we get to the summit, we, it sounds like a mortar
shell went off. And next thing I knew, both my
partner and I were on the groundin this in pouring rain.

(44:35):
I look over at him, and it was like, Aaron, are you OK?
And he's like, yeah, yeah, I'm OK.
How are you? I was like, well, I'm OK.
I was like, that was pretty, youknow, messed up.
Any choice words there? And my, my, my headlamp had had
gone out. So what had happened is there
was a ground strike beside us and the current had gone surged

(44:57):
through US. And it it fried my headlamp,
which is kind of wild. I did their headlamp in my pack.
But we didn't want to mess around with that.
And because we were still in themiddle of the storm, had Aaron
get behind me and with his headlamp and light up the trail
and we ran off the mountain as quickly as possible until we

(45:17):
could get down, you know, sort of out of that situation and
just do an assessment. Like, are you actually OK?
And he's like, I'm fine. And so yeah, OK, I'm OK.
I was like, OK, that was kind ofcrazy.
Pulled out my headlamp. And I was I was in 3rd in this
race. And it's quite a prestigious
race. And I was, I was kind of

(45:37):
surprised to be in 3rd. You know, it was, it was going
to be a bit of a monumental result.
I was still feeling great. And so we decided to not tell
anybody because I didn't want anybody at the aid stations to,
to pull us off or do a medical assessment because we we both
knew we were fine. So there, you know, continue the
race and ended up finishing third.

(45:58):
I think it took me about 25 hours to to complete the course.
And when I finished, though, other people had seen us up on
the mountain and sort of word have gotten out that this had
happened. And next thing I know, I'm lying
in this medical tent, you know, having just run 25 hours
through. Yeah, I I was fine, but you're
just kind of lying down. You're just really, really

(46:19):
tired. The next thing I know, like CNN
is on the the call, you know, I gotta you don't understand that
deal. Like, we just heard that you
were struck by lightning of thisrace and finished third and do
you want to talk about it? I was like, well, not really,
because I'm kind of embarrassed,but I'd rather talk about my
yeah, about my race result. But anyway, sort of it story

(46:40):
kind of got out and yeah, it's one of those one of those wild,
wild situations, but. Yeah, that is wild.
Do you actually remember seeing anything or is it just like the
sound and like it did? Knock you out mostly the sound
and I do remember a bit of a flash, but once again, with
these things, it's sort of hard to know whether or not I've like
if I genuinely remember it, if I've kind of created the, you
know, if the story is better than the reality, but it's still

(47:02):
a pretty damn good story, so. Yeah, 100%.
Well, yeah. So at this point, like you're
how many, how many years in are you 2 being like I mean at this
point you are considered professional ultra runner.
Yeah, I guess I'd been. So I got my first professional
contract as a trail runner in 2007.

(47:24):
I'd raced the World Long Distance Mountain Running
Championships in Interlochen, Switzerland.
It's really, really cool race called the Young for All
Marathon, where you start in Interlochen.
This really beautiful so well, actually it's kind of a very
resorty Swiss town. And you run up and you finish at
the base of the of the glacier right by the Eiger, the monk and
the young Frau Peak. And I'd had a good result there.

(47:47):
I think I finished 11th maybe. And it was my first mountain
running World Championships and or long distance mount running
World Championships. And it was a it was a straight
uphill marathon. Oh wow and when I came back I
just started sending cold call emails out to various outdoor
brands and literally send an e-mail to this company called

(48:09):
Arcterex. Send an e-mail to
info@arcterex.com saying mountain and trail running are
really starting to take off. Have you guys considered getting
into making trail running apparel?
And they were a Canadian mountain brand that I was really
like. I really admired their stuff and
by this point I was quite into Backcountry skiing and rock
climbing as well and happened toget an e-mail back saying, funny

(48:34):
you should mention that we have been talking about it, how would
you like to help us design some clothes?
Which was kind of a sick e-mail.That's awesome.
How? How big is the company at this
point? Like they're not.
Yeah, they're tiny. At that point they were, I mean
they were less than $100 millionin sales.
It's like small team of like what, 1015?
So, yeah, I mean, maybe maybe a bit bigger than that, you know,
but there were factories still in Vancouver.

(48:55):
They were starting to make some stuff overseas at the point, but
I've been, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm still with them and I'm
now an employee at the company. So it was one of those kind of
shoot your shot moments. And luckily I did, and the right
person got the e-mail. And yeah, it's been a pretty
amazing ride. Yeah, that is amazing.
So what is your official title for with architects?

(49:16):
So I have a few roles, so I'm still a sponsored athlete for
them. I'm the mountain run team
captain. And then my my title is I do
athlete insights and product testing.
So it's basically the coolest job in the world.
Yeah, you get to take the stuff out and use it.
Yeah, so I get to hang out with my friends in the mountains

(49:37):
essentially and try to find people doing cool stuff and go
and find out what their what their needs are for their
product, how they're using the product, what gaps they have.
And then as we start developing product, testing product finding
out where it's breaking and how we can improve it to put out the
best possible product. That's fascinating.
So Arcterics, so I just for a little bit of context for you,

(49:58):
while I like geeking out about this stuff, but when I was in
college, I started this small textile business.
We made insulated camping hammocks and that.
Yeah. So that afforded me the option
or the opportunity to go over toAsia and work with different,
you know, fabric mills and then the contract manufacturers and
that kind of stuff. And Arcterics was one of the
brands that I took a lot of inspiration from in terms of, I
mean, the way you guys present yourself is awesome, but the

(50:20):
quality, I still have not been able to find that level of
quality really. And many other brands, maybe one
or two where you can kind of make a comparison.
But what is it do you think about Archaic's that you guys do
that you carry through all the way from product development to
shipping the final product whereyou're able to keep such an
incredibly high quality standard?

(50:43):
Well, well, one is there is justan emphasis on quality and
that's what we're, what the company is known for.
So it's it, you know, there's just like a lot of checks along
the way and you, it's basically it's a no compromise situation.
You will just, you will pick thehighest, you know, quality
materials, the finishing detailsreally, really matter.
And if, you know, ultimately it just comes down to

(51:05):
accountability, because if we put out a product that doesn't
meet those standards, it gets called out really quickly.
Called out like you're pulling it back off the.
Yeah, or, you know, like our ouryour customers reviews will we
will get called out if it's if it's not, you know, if it
doesn't meet the sort of archaicstandards, you know, we all hold
hold ourselves to that account as well.

(51:25):
So the people who work there really want to be working on,
you know what, most people who work there, especially in the
design and development side of things, you know, love the
sports as well. So they're passionate users.
So they're out testing the gear themselves and making sure that
it lives up to those standards. Like for instance, in our in our
climbing department, we have twoclimbers who climb 5:15.

(51:52):
They climb 515-B, which is like,you know, basically some of the
best climbers in Canada work as designers internally of the
company. We're not sponsored athletes.
They're literally making harnesses and testing gloves and
stuff. So, you know, it, it, it comes
down to that. It's, you know, it comes down to
material choices. Basically our, our products need
to be beautiful and they need tobe functional.

(52:13):
So if you were to turn the jacket inside out, it would look
beautiful. You know, like that really,
really matters. And I think that attention to
detail is, you know, reflects inthe product ultimately.
And you know that our our athletes as well are using the
product in really uncompromisingsituations, you know, in big
mountain terrain where you can really feel the difference

(52:36):
between the zipper that has likea a backing behind it, you know,
that allows win through versus not those sorts of things.
There's a lot of iterations and it can be a really slow,
frustrating process as as an athlete, there be like, just
give me the give me the innovation, give me the new
product. But before they actually put it
out to market, they there's a lot of iterations that go into
it. Yeah, it goes through a lot of

(52:57):
rigorous testing. I think that's my favorite part
about any textile made product is like you're talking about the
very fine details, just the sewing patterns, you know, the
amount of stitching or the size of the thread and making sure
that everything just fits so nicely where you're not have an
extra thread hanging off at the end and all that extra stuff.
Like it's yeah, I love that kindof stuff.
Totally. No.
I mean, you know, and so much inso much goes into talking about,

(53:22):
you know, material choices. Take a running shoe, for
instance, you know, like there's, you know, big emphasis
right now and like super critical phones and things like
that. And that's that's awesome.
But if it's not designed and finished properly, you know, if
the upper doesn't work well, it doesn't matter how good your
midsole is, the shoe will not perform.
Ultimately, it needs to be, you know, incredibly comfortable and

(53:43):
highly functional. Yeah, Yeah, Cool man.
So next question, I want to go back a little bit to, I guess
what is this going to be two years after this lightning
struck event, you have another crazy accident in 2016 involving
100 feet of drop. So what happened, if you don't
mind me asking? That story?

(54:04):
Yeah, so I, you know, I was, I was racing, you know, ultra
marathons and mountain running races at quite a high level for
a long time that I was starting to get a little bit burnt out on
the racing and just sort of was lacking a little bit of
motivation in the pure racing environment.
And I was getting more and more drawn towards mountaineering and
albinism. So my technical skills were

(54:26):
increasing. And I was, I was lucky at being
at Archerricks to be surrounded by some of the best mountain
athletes in the world. And as I was saying, was getting
more into rock climbing at the time.
And, you know, athletes like Killian Jarnay, he is one of the
best mount runners of all time, and he's also a very serious
alpinist. We're starting to starting to

(54:48):
really blur the line between like alpinism and mountain
running. And so rather than, you know, be
out on these trails and start being more interested by
different Ridge lines. And so I started, you know,
adding more scrambling into my runs, followed by a little bit
of like light soloing and, you know, we bring some ropes and
stuff. And so I started to get more
interested in this combining, not like pure technical

(55:11):
difficulty, but adding technicaldifficulty into my runs and
trying to find really beautiful ways of linking up different
Ridge lines and looking at maps and stuff and looking at
traditional Alpine routes and seeing if we could do it, you
know, in a much faster style. So rather than take three days
to do an Alpine route, just could you do it in like 6 hours.

(55:31):
And one way you can do that is by adding some running
efficiency, pairing down your gear quite a bit or you know,
practicing on the route as well,going and trying those sections
in a Safeway and really learningthem and dialing them in and
then pairing your gear down South.
In 2016, I had this dream to do this big link up in an area

(55:52):
called Rogers Pass, British Columbia.
It's sort of the birth place of mountaineering in Canada.
And it was the idea was to do this big Ridge link up.
It was going to be about 50 or 60 K, so 30 or 40 miles.
But the entire thing was going to be on exposed ridgeline with
some like like glacier crossing,not a like the climbing

(56:16):
difficulty wasn't isn't that difficult.
It's like 5-6 but with insane exposure.
So basically, if you fall, you die kind of train for a large
part of that. And the, the one thing with, you
know, when you're moving in thattype of environment fast is
you're removing an element of safety.

(56:36):
You have to compromise somewhere.
And so you try to do something that's well within your
technical competence so that while the moves may not be
difficult, you try to, you know,control variables as much as
possible. You make sure the weather is
lined up, you make sure your partner's lined up, sure your
motivation is there, that you have basically the bare minimum
amount of gear to survive and get through the route because

(56:58):
carrying any extra gram really has an impact on you.
But you also there's some stuff he just really needs.
So we had, you know, like ice axes, like really lightweight
crampons, a little bit of like very lightweight rope and like
really lightweight harnesses. And we're wearing helmets
because there is a little bit ofloose rock on the route.
And so I was out with two, two friends of mine who are

(57:19):
incredibly competent mountain athletes, really, really skilled
mountain runners and skilled alpinus and climbers themselves.
And as we started along this ridgeline, we were maybe 3 or 4
peaks in. So like relatively early in the
day of this like 14 or 16 peak peak link up depending on how
you count the peaks. And I was, I was having a little

(57:41):
bit of a low point. I've been going for about 3
hours at this point. And so early on in the day, but
you still get these highs and lows, especially this is a
little bit before, you know, we were fueling was a big as big a
a factor. We were just going to be a
little bit low on the a little bit lower on carbs.
Carbs. Yeah, yeah.
You know, you'd, you'd go for a few hours and stop and eat some

(58:03):
food and have a drink of water and then keep going as opposed
to like the constant fueling. Anyway we we were going up this
sort of 4th to low 5th class scramble and my 2 friends had
gone in front of me and I was more or less following their
line when all of a sudden I was kind of rushing a little bit and

(58:24):
didn't properly test one of my hand holds and pulled out
essentially a microwave size block.
And next thing I knew I was falling backwards and hard to
know exactly how far I fell but it was a couple 100 feet.
It wasn't a it wasn't a straightfall.
It was kind of ledgy. So I was tumbling backwards

(58:47):
down. This clip ended.
I was positive I was going to die.
Two partners here with me thought for sure I was I was
dead. You don't typically survive a
fall like that. But miraculously, I was wearing
a helmet and after falling for, you know, what felt like an
eternity, and also that was happening in a blink of an eye,

(59:10):
I found myself at the base of this Rockwall looking up at it
and, and I could just see a, a big pool of blood underneath me.
I was face down in a in a mound of screen.
And I remember I didn't like seeing the blood.
And so I pushed myself up and rolled onto my back and just
instantly just felt this like shearing pain through my entire

(59:32):
body. And luckily I had, you know, to
the best mountain athletes in the world with me, but they
thought they were coming down for a body recovery when they
saw me fall. So they, they climb back down to
me and I could hear me moaning and screaming.
And, you know, we did have a, a little in reach, so a little

(59:52):
emergency beacon with us. And we had noticed that there
was cell signal up on the, the Ridge before us.
So one of the guys deployed the in reach, the other one went up
and was able to call search and rescue.
And luckily, because we'd stacked to sort of the weather
in our favor for this day, they were able to come out and, you
know, search and rescue was ableto come out and recover me.

(01:00:14):
Relatively quickly, within a couple hours, and I got flown
out of there and taken to hospital where it turned out I'd
broken my TA to T11 vertebra andI sheared off the top of my
iliac Crest, which is the top ofmy hip bone.
I'd broken my ankle and had likelacerations down to the bone

(01:00:36):
kind of across my body, but I was conscious.
I wasn't paralyzed. They went in for surgery and
they put a pin in my hip and they put 2 metal rods into my
back and yeah, started the slow recovery back from there.
Jeez, is it hard to tell that story?
Yeah, I know it is for sure. You know, they still get

(01:00:59):
flashbacks to, to falling and no, you know, it'd be it's one
of those things that, you know, it obviously it changed my life
like quite dramatically in in many ways, positive and
negative. And, you know, but I also think
it's important not to forget those moments as well, even

(01:01:19):
because, you know, there's things to be learned from them.
You know, the way I approach themountains and was moving in the
mountains at the time and, and maybe there's some arrogance to
what I was looking to do. You know, maybe I was trying to
do something that's above my, mycompetence at the time or my,
you know, my, my skill level. It's hard to know exactly.
But you know, as I say, they're,they're also like positives that

(01:01:43):
came from these things. And I think it's important to
analyze the accidents and try totry to learn from them, because
otherwise it's just a shitty thing that happened to you.
Oh yeah 100%. Well I mean the post traumatic
stress in the very realist sense.
Like, I can only imagine, you know, when I've wrecked on my
bike, like it takes a while to get confidence back to, you
know, just trust your tires and the things like that.

(01:02:05):
So you're like, but these this has to do with there's not a
whole lot of gear involved. It's more like who you are as an
individual. So did you find it hard to come
back to a level of like, trust in yourself and the ability that
you could have again? Yeah.
And sort of the way I did that is I went back to fundamentals,
you know, start, you know, go back and, you know, talk to a

(01:02:26):
lot of people who sort of, you know, you know, like mountain
guides and friends of mine who are, you know, like professional
climbers. And once again, doing like a big
assessment of things I did wrong.
And then going back out with ropes and really slowing things
down and getting back into the mountains in a sort of more
calculated way and progressing back up to ultimately having a,

(01:02:48):
a broader skill set. And then also just learning
that, you know, sometimes you have to go slow to go fast, if
that makes sense. You know, I was rushing at the
time. I wasn't testing my holds
properly, which are especially in like super high consequence
terrain like that. Those are just mistakes.
You can't, you can't be making. So I essentially cut a corner
and I paid the price for it. What a price to pay.

(01:03:10):
Fortunately, I'm around to be able to learn the lesson from it
and you know, and, you know, being able to recover to a
relatively high level of physical ability.
I still have pain in my hip, youknow, my ankle still bugs me at
times, but those are really small prices to pay and relative
to what the outcome could have been.
I've I've, you know, I've lost quite a few friends in the

(01:03:32):
mountains and I've had other friends who've had really bad,
you know, I've had limbs amputated or ended up, you know,
paraplegic or quadriplegic basedon mountain accident.
So the mountains are pretty unforgiving terrain.
One thing with that style of, ofmovement is it's, you know, it's

(01:03:52):
really rich. You got these incredibly rich
experiences, you know, but it can also be, you know, really,
really freaking dangerous. Yeah, has because there's a
number of other things like you've experienced so much as it
comes to the mountains and like the dangers of them getting
struck by lightning, a falling obviously, like I read like

(01:04:13):
tragically lost, you know, your previous wife and avalanche.
Do you ever get just like Tired of the Mountains?
Yeah, I know it's an interesting, that's an
interesting question. Yeah.
My, it's, it's a, it's a delicate, delicate band dance
like that's just say they, they give me quite a lot.

(01:04:34):
There's a lot of richness in them.
And I've had like, really deep experiences in the mountains.
But they, you know, yeah, they, they do come at quite a heavy
price. And I do at times, you know,
kind of wonder why I keep getting drawn back to the
mountains. And yeah, especially, you know,
things like Backcountry skiing, you know, which are, you know,

(01:04:58):
it can be really, really dangerous.
But you know, they also have, I don't know, I've, I've had some
of my highest moments and some of my lowest moments in the
mountains. And it is a balance and there's
an incredible beauty in them andbut also a lot of a lot of
potential pain. Like the mountains just don't
really care though. You know, ultimately that's kind
of what it comes down to is it'snot the mountains fault.

(01:05:19):
It's sort of how you interact with the mountains that can have
have the impact. And I find what I'm drawn to do
in the mountains has changed quite dramatically.
You know, I feel like I've stepped way, way back from the
direction I was I was going. And also who I go into, I'm
very, very selective with who I go into the mountains with or,

(01:05:39):
and then what I'm doing with different people in the
mountains as well. Like I won't go into really high
consequence terrain with people I don't trust.
Yeah. Yeah, well, I feel like that
gives you like the ultimate ability to judge and weigh a
person's worth in terms of not only, I mean, obviously the

(01:06:00):
technical skills are a huge piece of it and and very
important, but I would imagine, yeah, if you can't like mentally
connect with that person and in the same light, like it's, it'd
be very difficult to walk into any type of potential near death
situation and yeah. And have that.
Yeah, or, or the ability to feelthat you can communicate openly

(01:06:21):
with them about what your fears are, what potential risks and
hazard you're facing. And I think just being very open
and honest about, you know, especially when you're you're
with a group, are you, are you discussing sort of what the
objectives are for the day? Are you discussing what your
risk, your combined risk tolerance is, what your

(01:06:41):
individual risk tolerance is, what gear you're planning on
bringing? You know, I kind of have a rule
that if you've asked yourself twice, should we be doing this
is probably time to bail. You know, I'm like being willing
to turn around, not being purelyobjective focused and you know,
like outcome focus and what you're doing in the mountains
because, you know, the weather could could change on you or the

(01:07:03):
conditions that you expected to be variable.
So you're constantly just analyzing.
Does what you do make sense? And I think being much more
flexible with your your plans when you're going into the
mountains makes a really big difference.
Like the most dangerous thing you can do is to be purely
objective focused. People call it some.
Paper, that kind of stuff and I think you really need to be
adjusting your plans and be ableto find satisfaction and

(01:07:25):
pleasure in a variety of ways ofmoving in the mountains.
I think will ultimately give youthe the richest experience
there. One of the objectives can be
summiting the mountain. Another one could just be going
for a hike at the base of the mountain.
Another one could just be sketching the mountain from, you
know, you know, from the shell and the base of the mountain.
And those are all very wonderfulways of interacting with them.

(01:07:49):
Well, not to not to continue to dwell on the negative.
So, but I feel like this is an important part because when I
was researching you just going through your Instagram, the
amount of dedicated posts you have to your late wife was a
really sobering thing. And so for just for you to know,
like when I was 16, like I lost my father to suicide.

(01:08:12):
So it's obviously a much different situation, but anytime
you lose someone, it has a profound effect on how we view
the world and how we interact with the world and how we're
able to kind of move forward. And it's just a such a topic,
complicated topic. So I guess I will ask this
question, but if you don't feel comfortable answering it, like

(01:08:32):
that's totally fine. But what is it like to lose a
wife? No.
And, you know, thanks for sharing that about your dad, and
I'm really sorry that you went through that.
And. Thank you.
Appreciate it. Yeah, no, I mean, it was, you
know, it, it, it's terrible. It's horrible in every possible
way. I mean, for context, I was
Backcountry skiing with Laura, with another friend of ours

(01:08:55):
who's a is a ski guide. And ultimately she got buried in
an avalanche. And while we were able to, you
know, get to her, she, she endedup dying the following day.
And, you know, it just raises somany, so many questions.
You know, in theory, just kind of like a bit of a casual ski

(01:09:17):
day. And, you know, it had the worst
possible outcome. And, you know, we were doing
something that we we both deeplyloved and shared together.
And, you know, she got buried under like, more than 12 feet of
snow. And it took us quite a long time

(01:09:38):
to to get to her and pull her out.
And yeah, so that has, you know,and I sat with her, she
essentially, you know, died, which, yeah, has like a terrible
impact on you. You know, you're, you're
supposed to save the ones you love.
And I, you know, I wasn't able to do that, you know, And then

(01:10:00):
also the impact that had on her family, my family, our broader
community was, you know, really,you know, really sobering.
And it just made me question a lot, you know, like, I, I love
Laura deeply. You know, like she was very, we
were very, very much In Sync. And I, we shared incredible

(01:10:20):
moments together. And I feel so fortunate to have
had her as part of my life. And, you know, to come home to
our home that, you know, essentially she put together
was, you know, really sobering. There's just like reminders of
her everywhere. And, you know, she had this like
really deep richness to how she approached life and that really

(01:10:42):
has impacted me. And I try to keep that memory of
how she wanted to live and how she tried to live, you know,
really, really present and try to keep her, you know, part of
who I am. But at the same time, one of the
things that she had is she had is such, is this like deep love
for life and this deep richness of life and really wanted to

(01:11:04):
just curiosity for everything. And as, as part of that, it's,
you know, even though it's been a struggle and I, you know, I
had my own experience with, you know, a suicide attempt, you
know, a few years ago as part ofthis, you know, and it, you
know, ultimately, you know, the best way of honoring her is

(01:11:28):
trying to continue to, to live afull and rich and happy life and
try to pursue, I don't know. So just just to really
ultimately just keep living. And so that's sort of being the,
the big take away. But yeah, it's like it's hell.
You know, it's ultimately the, the only real way of describing
it. And I don't know if it's, I'm
not sure how much, you know, time you spent, you know,

(01:11:51):
thinking about suicide. And like, I never thought it'd
be somebody who'd commit suicide.
Like, I've by all metrics, you know, I've lived like a very
rich and deep life and ultimately following a series of
cascading events and not really,you know, kind of looking after
myself properly. You know, I literally just

(01:12:12):
hadn't slept for a few days. And ultimately, you know, went
upstairs and just sort of grabbed whatever pill was on the
table and swallowed them and instantly realized I made a
mistake, called for help right away.
But in, you know, in sort of analyzing it, you know, it, it,
it was a solution, you know, it's like, it's a shitty
solution. It was a solution.
It was like a way out of the pain and despair, but I was

(01:12:35):
feeling it. It is a way of sort of ending
that it's, you know it. And so I, I have a lot of
empathy for who I was in that moment.
And luckily I was able to catch myself.
I was taken to hospital and I was given the choice to, to go
into a psychiatric ward or not, which is, once again, it's kind
of like a totally fucked up thing.

(01:12:57):
You know, It's like here I am a professional athlete, a lawyer.
And, you know, it's like you're being asked if like, if you're
willing to commit yourself to a psychiatric Lord.
Yeah, dear Lord. But I ultimately, you know, I
thought about it and I was like,OK, if I had a broken bone, I
would go to physiotherapy. I would commit myself to fix it.

(01:13:20):
In this case, I have a broken head and have a broken heart.
I need to commit to fixing it. And the best place of doing that
at that moment was in this intensive psychiatric ward.
Being in there, you know, which you have to swallow a lot of ego
to do it. But it's all ultimately like ego
is also potentially going to getme killed, you know, if I didn't

(01:13:44):
go down that path. And while I was in there, you
know, I, I, you're meeting thesepeople who are, you know, whose
lives are like really, really difficult.
And ultimately I realized that Iwas fortunate that I had a
potential path out of there. Whereas a lot of people there,
this was going to be their fate long term.

(01:14:04):
And that was, you know, it's, it's hard, hard to see that, But
I committed to trying to heal asbest I could and spend my time
there. And ultimately is, is where I
like I, I went there to stabilize, you know, and do that
in a, in a, you know, in a secure way.
And I was only in there for, I want to say maybe 5 days, maybe

(01:14:27):
a week. So I don't really remember.
It's kind of, it's funny like time time, yeah.
But ultimately I was discharged back out.
And in that time, I, you know, Imade a number of choices.
I decided healthiest for me to leave the home that Laura and I
had together. It just wasn't a healthy place

(01:14:48):
for me to be. I still own it, but I, I left
that community as well. And I was living in Kenmore,
Alberta, which is just a side ofBanff and Calgary area and moved
out to moved out to Squamish at that point where I knew I had
like a strong community of friends.
And so I made that truck four years ago.

(01:15:08):
Well, first of all, thank you somuch for sharing that.
Like, I don't even have to ask the question.
Is it hard to tell that story? Because I, I know it.
I know it is. And you asked it a little bit.
You know, how do I feel about suicide?
You know, I've come a long way with how I've dealt with that
question because I have more of a religious background.
And there is, you know, the juryhas been out on, you know, what

(01:15:31):
people think suicide is or isn'tand how that would affect any
level of like, you know, afterlife salvation.
And I've come to the conclusion that, you know, whatever happens
in terms of religious context, I'm at peace with.
But what's more important is just understanding the frame of
mind that my father was in when that kind of a thing happened

(01:15:52):
because he grew up with a life that was much worse in terms of
experiences that I ever had. And he afforded me by working
very hard, him and my mother to give me a life that like they
had never been able to live. And, you know, kind of climbing
the ladder as you will. And I think it was probably, so
that would happen when I was 16,when I was probably 2023 was

(01:16:15):
probably the age when I really was able to step aside from
seeing my parents as just my parents and seeing them as
humans. And in that perspective shift,
like my dad, just knowing that he struggled very deeply with
like you were saying, because I through things that I've gone

(01:16:35):
through, I've gotten to a place where I would consider like, oh,
this is what clinical depressionfeels like or this is what like
a deep depressive state feels like.
And waking up in the morning andfeeling OK for a few minutes and
then immediately like this cloudlike covers my perspective and
my, like you said, a head and heart thing.
Like my heart just feels completely compressed.
Like being able to have that perspective and realize like,

(01:16:55):
wow, that's a terrible place to be.
And whenever someone is in like terrible physical pain, you
know, most people don't want to live.
And I would say that to a degree, like mental anguish and
pain is like almost as hard, if not harder than enduring that
physical pain. Because with physical pain, at
least you can point to it. It's like with mental pain, you
can't. So like, I've come to a place to

(01:17:16):
have a lot of love and respect and like, my wife has struggled,
you know, with some depression stuff and like early in our
marriage and whatnot. And it's given me a lot more of
an ability to like, empathize and love those people because
meant like life is so, so freaking hard.
And like, I've thought about, you know, because of like how my
dad passed, like, oh, am I goingto lose my wife someday?

(01:17:38):
Or am I going to lose my sister?Am I going to lose my mom or,
you know, all this stuff. And you kind of like, I at least
I think like, oh, you know, I need to prepare myself.
But that like, that's kind of the an unhealthy way to look at
it. So I can't even fully grasp with
what you felt other than to say,like, I'm glad you're here.
I'm glad you checked yourself inand were able to kind of like
move through that. And yeah, five years is not a

(01:18:01):
very long time to be removed from such a thing.
But I am really encouraged by your story because it sounds
like you have and you talk a lotabout like, the importance of
support systems, especially around injury, mental or
physical. And like, I'm, I'm glad that
Someone Like You exists that canlike tell these stories and
share it with others to give them hopefully like light

(01:18:22):
through those dark tunnels and the things that they have to
persevere through. Yeah, I mean, and I think
there's maybe one thing that I, you know, my, my upbringing in,
in Africa and in Nigeria, you know, people live like
incredibly challenging lives in places like that.
And they just endure like crazy hardships.
And they probably will, you know, like there's, you know, a

(01:18:43):
lot of them don't really have like a, a clean path out.
But yeah, they can also have this incredible ability to just
like, laugh and love and live life in a such a rich way.
And I think it was really lucky to be exposed to that a young
age. And and I, I do draw on that,
you know, and also in in weird ways, I, you know, I do draw on
my experiences as an athlete, you know, sort of try to

(01:19:03):
navigate, you know, the challenges of life.
And once again, I'm really luckyto have physical outlets, but
don't like the one thing I did, you know, sort of going back to
the, you know, the art and theseother forms of expression.
When I was holed up in the hospital bed after breaking my
back and my hip, I realized thatI only had one outlet, you know,

(01:19:24):
like I only had my physical outlet.
And, you know, in this, in that deep time of need, I didn't have
that outlet. And that's when I started, you
know, doing some sketching and, you know, I'm getting more
involved in writing. And because I was like, I need
to like, I have to let this out somehow.
And so it ultimately kind of made me a bit of a richer

(01:19:46):
person. And I did, and same with, you
know, after, you know, after Laura passed.
It was also during COVID. So there was like a few, like,
there's a lot of kind of just general weirdness in the world
at the time, no. Kidding.
And like a real challenge in connecting with people and, you
know, the way I, I was forced tostay in Canmore and under normal

(01:20:12):
circumstances, probably, I probably would have travelled
and left, but I just wasn't an option at the time.
So, you know, posting and sharing was kind of a way of me
keeping her memory alive, which felt really important to me.
But then also it was also just away of like connecting with
people outside of that and sort of feeling support in a time
when I just, you know, you literally couldn't like hug or

(01:20:33):
touch people. It was, it was just a a weird
time in the world. Yeah, no kidding.
And I was isolated from, you know, family as well at the
time, in a time when I really kind of needed it the most.
So, so that that's where a largepart of that sharing came.
And there's also been this kind of this weird like positive
reinforcement loop because, you know, you start sharing, people

(01:20:54):
reach out to you and, you know, say positive things, which feels
good. So you do more of it.
And then maybe you lose a littlebit of the reason behind why you
did it initially. You know, like it's it, it's,
you know, once again, I get psychoanalyze these things for a
very long time, but ultimately it, you know, I'm, I'm, it's
hard, I'm hardened to know that it has potentially impacted some

(01:21:15):
people in a positive way. Laura was a, was AGP, like she
was a family doc. She had a really deep impact on
the community, you know, and on her, her friends and everything.
And, you know, just knowing a very small degree that maybe
I've been able to to help somebody in their own journey

(01:21:38):
doesn't, you know, doesn't help make the situation feel right.
But at least it feels like I'm giving back to the world.
And yeah, because I also received a lot of love and
support from a lot of people, and it feels nice to be able to
pay that for, even to just a really small degree.
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for
sharing that. I just have one final question
for you, because then you got togo, how has or what does success

(01:22:02):
look like given the life of experience you've had and what
you, you know, he said the firstvision of going off to that camp
was like, oh, I'm going to be world champion in six months.
And obviously at your, the ripe wisdom that you have accrued
over the years now, like what, what does it look like to you
now? I mean.
That's a yeah. It's a, you know, I think it

(01:22:22):
means different things in different aspects of my life.
But, you know, I, I think ultimately staying curious in
the things that you're doing, you know, continuing to evolve.
It'd be really sad if I was the same person I was when I was 19.
You know, it's incredible. I still get to evolve as a, as a
person. I still get to have like really

(01:22:43):
deep, rich experiences out in the world.
But I, you know, ultimately, youknow, having a really rich
community of, you know, loved ones, family support systems,
I'm really, I used to feel the need to have to, to go and, and
like move and travel. And I'm really appreciative

(01:23:03):
these days of having a like a really solid place to come home
to. And that really means a lot to
me, you know, with, you know, with casting my, my current
partner, I'm really lucky to have that form of support in her
and just like really deep friendships in the community I'm
part of. And, you know, that's at work as
well as just in other areas of my life.

(01:23:25):
So just being able to live like a very rich, full, deep,
meaningful life is ultimately what success means.
Family, friends. Well, Adam, I don't know you for
very long, but I have gotten to know you a good bit in the last
hour and 22 minutes and I would say like you're a great man.
Really appreciate you taking thetime to share just the different
things you've got going on, evenfrom just a little bit of a

(01:23:47):
lens. It's been uplifting to me.
I'm sure it will be to others aswell.
So thank you so much for taking the time to have the
conversation and share from sucha vulnerable place.
It means a lot to me. Well, thanks, Seth.
And yeah, and same to you. You also shared some some deep,
meaningful personal things and that that it goes a long way as
well. And having these conversations
and yeah, you know, I really admire anybody who explores
curiosity and starting a podcastis is part of that.

(01:24:10):
So, you know, you did not ask a single stupid question.
So I'm a little bit no, it was it was a feeling misled.
Well, good. It's still, it's still working
then. Well, thanks man.
Right on. Thanks a lot.
OK. Best of luck to you.
Yeah, man, thank you so much to Adam for coming to the podcast,
sharing so much and so vulnerably about his life.

(01:24:32):
I really appreciate it. I love going deep with people.
I love hearing their stories, asyou guys know, and it is just my
sincere hope and prayer really, that these podcasts will go out
to continue to help, inspire andhelp people out of dark, mired
situations they might find themselves in.
So thank you so much, Adam for all you do and for Sharon, if
you guys might to this point thepodcast, just want to say thank

(01:24:53):
you so much. If you'd like to sign up for the
newsletter, check out the show notes below.
It can take you to the website to do that.
If you are on YouTube, if you could like comment, subscribe,
turn on the notification bell. If you are all listening on
Apple pods or Spotify podcasts, wherever you are, if you could
like review and comment there aswell.
Really continues to help grow this podcast.
Thank you guys so much for beinghere.
Thank you again to Adam for coming on.

(01:25:14):
And when asking Adam a little bit at the end there about what
a success look like, really whatit comes down to, According to
him, it's family and friends in that community and support
systems. So get out there, make some good
friends, and keep your family around.

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Episode #137 - Adam Campbell, Athlete & Product Specialist for Arc’teryx, Lawyer, Adventurer, Writer, Public Speaker, Coach

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode #137 - Adam Campbell, Athlete & Product Specialist for Arc’teryx, Lawyer, Adventurer, Writer, Public Speaker, Coach