Episode #149 - Jason Schiers, Founder of ENVE Composites & Managing Director of GT Bikes

Jason Schiers opens up about his journey through trauma, anger, and resilience, turning hardship into fuel for personal and entrepreneurial growth. He shares insights on authenticity, emotional intelligence, and the role of service in finding peace. The conversation also touches on his evolving view of God, the power of communication, and the struggle to uphold integrity and quality in business—especially within today’s bike industry.Jason’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-schiers-4a554236/ SQ Newsletter: https://stupidquestions.show/pages/contact


Episode Transcript

(00:00):
How's it going everybody? And welcome back to another
edition of the Stupid Questions podcast.
Dan, the podcast going to be talking with Jason Shears.
He is the founder of the companyEnvy Composites.
If you have heard of them, I'm sure you have.
If you are anything in the endurance bikes world, from
triathlon to mountain biking to gravel riding, they are all over
the world on plastered across the tour riders, professional

(00:23):
bikes and things and that sort. So Jason's an awesome guy.
For the 1st 35 to 40 minutes we talked just deep personal life,
leadership, philosophy and otherthings like that and then we
dive into the entrepreneurship side of things.
Definitely going to have him on again because he has an amazing
story and obviously a wealth of knowledge and experience.
So really look forward to havinghim on again in the future, but
don't want to take up too much time.

(00:44):
Just want to introduce this awesome guy, Jason Shears.
I'm doing good. Just got off a another work
meeting. It was a good meeting this
morning. Got some got some good work
done. But yeah, I'm looking forward to
getting outside here in a littlebit later to go for a ride.

(01:04):
How's the weather been up there?Oh, dude, it's been great.
So I don't know if I told you ornot on our phone call, but I'm
from, excuse me? I grew up in the East Coast in
Chattanooga, TN, for the last 12years or so.
Wow. And so when it starts to get hot
out there, it's like super humid, just like sauna.

(01:26):
But being out here, it's really dry heat in Northern California.
And I've been loving it. A nice change of pace.
My skin's getting used to it, but yeah, I get used to it.
Yeah, man, where are you at? I'm in Southern California.
OK, nice. So.
Yeah, we we've had a lot of Gray.
Today's the first sunny day in awhile.
It's nice. Yeah, get out and have some fun

(01:48):
too. We've had rain the last few days
so the trails should be super mint.
Yeah, that's awesome. Are you from Southern
California? No, I'm, I'm.
I'm from all over. That's the easy answer.
That's awesome. Where are you like from?
From man, I'm sorry. I'm.
Like I was originally, originally born in Idaho, so,
but I've, I've kind of moved allover.
I've lived all over the country.Yeah, lived, spent some time on

(02:11):
the East Coast. It's a lot of time all over the
West. I've moved around a lot.
Yeah, and it's beautiful. You think you could ever live in
the East? Oh, yeah, I enjoyed it back
there. It's all right.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's just, I mean, it's what youget out of an area, what you're
looking for, right? So if you're looking for good
stuff, you find good stuff. If you're looking for bad stuff,
you find bad stuff. Yeah.

(02:31):
It's really kind of up to you what you make of it.
So yeah. Yeah, 100%.
Well, cool, man. Well, First off, just want to
say thank you so much for the opportunity to get to connect
with you over the podcast format, taking some time out of
your busy schedule. Really appreciate it.
No problem, It's nice to chat. Yeah.
What do you want to chat about? Oh man, so anything and

(02:51):
everything. So I guess I'll give you just a
a little bit of a background about who I am so you know where
these questions are coming from.But to keep it super brief,
obviously love endurance sport have been involved in the
entrepreneurship world since I found out what the term actually
meant when I was 21. So I'm going to ask some
questions hopefully about your different business ventures.
Cycling, like I said, endurance sports, obviously awesome, but

(03:13):
for me I really love going deep.So my questions when they start
are probably going to be pretty introspective.
So take as much time as you wantto to answer them.
But yeah, there's nothing I likemore as I've grown up, just
gotten a little bit older and more mature that it's a
one-on-one connection and conversations with people, I
think to bring the most fulfilment and purpose in my own

(03:35):
life and and opportunity to reflect and hopefully learn from
the wisdom of others. So that's kind of where these
questions are going to be comingfrom.
If anything's uncomfortable, youcan tell me.
I still might ask it. I don't get, I don't get very
uncomfortable so. Beautiful, yeah, but we'll be
awesome then. Well, sweet dude.
Yeah. So the the first question I
would love to ask is from your perspective, who is Jason?

(04:00):
Mess. I guess I I would OK, I would
summarize as a mess. No, I'm just I, I think I'm just
a very ambitious person that I define myself in doing things
that people say can't be done. I read you've been saying that
for a while. I read an article where you said
that back in like 2011 even. Yeah.
I just I like the challenge. I like the challenge of doing

(04:20):
things that people say, yeah, shouldn't, shouldn't be doable.
So and it gets me, it gets me ininto some pretty deep water
pretty routinely. But I try not to bite off
anything that I don't see a pathto success.
So if I, if I can, you know, imagine a path to success or see
a creative, a creative solution to get to the successful, you

(04:41):
know, ending, I'll, I'll bite off some pretty crazy puzzles so
they don't always work out. Yeah, sure.
No, that's that's how the world goes.
So for you, in this mentality ofbreaking the mold and doing what
can't be done or people say can't be done, is this something
that is a form of nature for youor is it nurtured from a young

(05:02):
age? Well, I had AI had a pretty
tough childhood and I've been onmy own since I was 15.
And so I think the pairing of that I get it created 2 outcomes
for me that I've used professionally and, and, and
those two outcomes are I literally survived on, on
creating opportunity. Like I can say like it was
literal survival to create opportunities as far as how I

(05:24):
was going to make an income and how I was going to get through
school. And so I had to use a lot of
creativity and, and, and, and capitalize on every opportunity
that came my way. But then in addition to that, I,
I also just was really angry andlittle anarchist skate rat.
Then like I like to burn down the system when I can, when the
system doesn't make sense. So I, I've always been pretty

(05:47):
anti authority and, and anti system.
And so whenever I see either authority be abused or the
system not make sense, I I take a lot of joy in breaking it.
Jason the anarchist. So let me ask you this question
then. Has there ever been a scenario
where when you first approach the situation, you had that
mentality and then you were ableto kind of go through the

(06:08):
process, get your education in whatever the industry or thing
is, and then realize, oh, maybe the system wasn't as broken as I
thought it was? Life is full of humility.
Yeah, you'll find it regularly. So yeah.
No, I, I think, you know, I think the big thing that are the
big thing that I would say to that, that question is, you

(06:30):
know, I think in those situations or scenarios where
you, you attack something, perspectives that you gain
through each of those situationscreate the wisdom you have to,
to navigate the future of your, your future state.
So I think when I was young, I, I saw a lot of things that were
broken. As I've gotten older, I've

(06:51):
gained a lot of perspective and understand why some of those
things are broken. It doesn't mean they're not
broken, it just means the way you fix them.
Maybe not as simple as as my young 1 dimensional mind thought
so, but no. I I generally when I've assigned
myself to an opportunity, it's I've thought through it long

(07:13):
enough that I've gained an understanding that it is broken
and that there is an opportunityto do it better.
So you said that you had a hard upbringing.
What made it hard? I I, I kind of, I well, without
going into too much of the doom and gloom part of it, like I
grew up in a really abusive household and and I got kicked

(07:37):
out when I was 15. Later in life, I reconnected
with my father and he explained to me that was supposed to be a
threat, but I took it as an opportunity and I never looked
back. So I've been on my own since I
was 15. Wow.
And that, that came with its ownset of challenges, obviously.
Yeah. So.
So just to share where these questions are going to come from

(07:58):
a little bit. So when I was 16, I lost my
father to suicide. So it's definitely a different
situation. But I didn't leave home,
although part of me feels like it did because like when stuff
happens, you know, you just. What it's worth, my dad ended up
committing suicide as well, but we have that in common.
Oh, holy junk men. So were you able to?
Well, I guess I'll tell you thisstory first before I ask this

(08:20):
question just super short, but when I lost my dad, so the first
that that morning I was 16, we were going off to school, got
into like a screaming match withmy mom right before school.
And my dad worked third shift. So he just came home from
working and my last, literally my last memory with him was him
looking to me in my eyes and being disappointed as he should

(08:41):
have been. I was not treating my mother
with any type of respect that she did deserve, but was really
looking for like that man to man, you know, back me up dad
situation. He did not give it to me and as
he shouldn't have, but usually Iwould tell him goodbye in the
morning, give him a hug and kiss, you know, go off to
school. Well, came back, obviously never
got that opportunity again. So that that created its own set

(09:02):
of challenges. Yeah.
But I have come to terms with that years later.
But for you, did you get to a place where you were able to, at
least on your end, reconcile andfind peace in?
Yeah. I mean, I think I, I mean, one
of the lessons I've learned in life is that there's, there's
two outcomes to every situation like and, and there is no

(09:22):
exception. And you're either gaining wisdom
or you're becoming a victim and,and you can break everything
that happens down to, to you andyour life to those two things.
So either you're growing or you're suffering from it.
That's it. And you know, for me, I feel
like when I finally adopted thatbelief system, then I could look

(09:44):
back on all the hard things withmy dad and look at the areas of
growth that I've gained from even the negative situations.
Like, even the worst of the worst of the worst situations
still gave me tools and opportunities to have a, you
know, a perspective or an understanding where I could
either employ that to help someone in the same situation or
even just to look at the strength that it forced me to
gain even though it came from a very negative place.

(10:07):
Yeah, that's super valuable. Thanks for sharing that.
Yeah, it's, I find it's very hard to connect with people who,
and, and I'm not saying this in the as a way to take down other
people or cut them at the knees and say like, oh, well, you
know, they, they're not who theyshould, they, they're not who
they should be. But it's interesting to me, like

(10:28):
people who go through severe levels of especially around the
family, household trauma, they are forced to kind of what
you're saying, saying either take the victim mentality or
like, oh, I need to find strength in this.
Do you think it's possible for people to not go through the
very difficult things to come out the other side of adulthood

(10:49):
and be, for lack of a better term, like tempered and strong
in in their respective life? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. But I, I think, I mean, if I
was, if I was trying to help somebody navigate that space
that was struggling with that space, I would introduce him to
the philosophy of like, you can keep spending all your time
trying to find yourself or find your peace, only to get more
lost or you can lose yourself giving yourself away to service

(11:14):
and to helping others. And you will find all the peace
that you are missing. So it's like the the fastest way
to find yourself or find your peace is to give it, give
yourself away. And I think unfortunately, most
people get into that loop of feeling damaged, hurt, or, or,
you know, traumatized, and then they just focus on the damage

(11:34):
that hurt and the trauma and they just get more law.
And the reality is it's, there'snothing, there's no, there's no
good answers in it. You're never going to find a
good answer. You know, when the people you
count on disappear and you disappear on you when you're
young or, or damage you when you're young, there is no good
answer. But the best thing you can do is
come to peace with it. And the best way to get to that

(11:56):
piece is to lose yourself in service and helping other people
that are suffering from the samething.
And, and that's, it's what the, it's the beauty of it.
It's the beauty of it. When you went through that
traumatic situation, you can sitin front of somebody else that
is also suffering and say, I understand.
And that's, that's an invaluable, that's an invaluable
thing that that the most helpfulperson from a great background

(12:18):
could never say to somebody that's hurting, you know, So
it's, there's, there's beauty ineverything, even even the
ugliest of moments. What, what was it or when was it
that you adopted that mentality of like, well, I need, I need to
find peace with myself that. Was a very hard thing to find
for me. I spent, I spent the first half

(12:39):
of my life just angry, angry at everyone, angry at the world,
angry at the just the unjustice of it all.
Like I was just angry like, and I used that anger to fuel
everything I did. So professionally, I was, I was
a terror. Like I could work harder than
anyone I could, I could tackle the most difficult things,
whatever. And I just use that anger as

(13:00):
fuel. But it's a very corrosive fuel.
And eventually it just starts toburn all the relationships
around you. And if you're going to be honest
with yourself, you start to see yourself as the common
denominator to all those problems.
So one of my favorite movies, I think is if there's a couple of
them, I think it's just called Steve Jobs.
Have you seen that movie Which? Is.

(13:21):
Which one is that? Which Who's the actor in it?
Yeah, the one with Michael Fassenbender, I think is his
name. I don't really get, I don't
think I'd say that one. We might have to watch that one
you. Should check it out.
It's my favorite movie of all time.
I could watch it over and over again and it's not because I
think to certain people it couldonly mean a certain thing.
So for me, obviously coming from, you know, estranged father

(13:43):
son relationship, there's a lot of successful men and when I say
success, I mean monetary success.
A lot of these men have some kind of disconnect with their
father and there and there's different reasons I think why
people are motivated by that. For me, it was always like I was
for a long time trying to seek the approval of other men who I
deemed worthy to seek approval from.

(14:04):
So that would drive me to an insane level of wanting to work
very hard. But in this particular movie,
there's this coins term which the assistant to Steve Jobs,
like she coins it as Steve derangement or reality
distortion field. And it's this idea of, you know,
he picks up a magazine that he thought he should have been like

(14:26):
the person on the front of. And in his mind, that was
actually the reality of the truth.
Like that was going to happen, but they changed it last minute.
And it just really spoke to me because there was one point in
my upbringing when there was a man who I was really trying to
more even subconsciously impress.
And he was the CEO of this company.

(14:46):
And I had it. And I believed this with a deep
fervor that he was going to ask me at the age of like 22 to be
the CEO of this company as he was looking to step down soon.
And for whatever reason, after watching that movie and some
things happened, I gained the courage to call him on the
phone, be like, here's what I believe.
Is this true? And I was like shaking.
And like, it was almost like a confession of a really bad thing

(15:08):
that I'd done to. I was afraid to ask him, but he
was just straight up like, no, that's not what I was thinking
at all. And that woke me up to this,
like, Oh my goodness. Like I have those.
Being able to build a false reality around you and have a
false sense of belief in something can drive you to do
amazing things in terms of accomplishments.
But then I realized, like, wow, how many people live in this

(15:29):
false reality world that we create to get there?
Yeah, so you've had that. That's.
Always been presented to me as stories and people build those
stories to support their belief system and whatever it is, you
know, and, and how they view somebody in their personal
relationships, how they view their themselves, their
relationship with the world. But yeah, those stories are
dangerous. I I agree with you.

(15:51):
They can, they can feel a lot, but they generally, when people
get caught up in living in stories, they generally get
fueled by weakness. At some point, whether it be
greed or beer or, you know, jealousy or whatever, The, the,
the, the ugly parts of your personality usually take control
of the story. There are lots of little seeds.
I think that, at least in my case, led to the point where I

(16:14):
was able to let go of a little bit of the anger and start to
soften at the core. What were some of those seeds
that were planted or the things that happened to bring you to a
place of realizing anger is probably not what actually is
going on? There's a little sadness
underneath, or more. Yeah, I think, I mean, for me, I
don't know that there was ever apoint.
I think it was a long and I, I mean, I don't get me wrong, I, I

(16:36):
think I'm still doing work everyday.
I, I work on myself all the time.
I I'm constantly looking at new perspectives and ways that I can
be different. But I for me it was a just a
really long honest Rd. like being honest with myself.
If I had to pick one thing out, it's being honest, like being
honest with yourself and, and not making excuses and not using

(16:57):
rationalization to deal with thepain or the deal with the
disappointment. Like I think, I think the, the
biggest betrayer to us as human beings is rationalization.
People can rationalize anything and, and it, it just betrays you
being your true self. The minute you start using it,

(17:18):
you, you know, your weaknesses start to lead you away from
your, you know, your real compass, if you will.
And I, I spend a lot of time when talking to people I care
about or people close to me about compass, like about truly
understanding your compass. And, and sometimes your compass
is pointing you in places that you, your ego doesn't want you
to go. And, and then you end up in, in,

(17:40):
you know, in inner turmoil and, and have challenges along those
lines. But I think one of the most
beautiful things you can do as ahuman being is, is take enough
time to understand what your compass really is like, what is
your true north and then having the strength and the courage to
follow it. And sometimes it's not in
alignment with your ego or not in alignment with what you've
fantasized for yourself. And, and, but I, I, I can't say

(18:05):
with confidence that when peopleare in alignment with that
compass, they find peace and joy.
And you know, peace and joy to me is is everlasting happiness
and accomplishment is cleaning. And and so I I I try to
dissimilate the difference between happiness and joy.
Yeah, I think most people actually really struggle to to

(18:27):
define the difference between those two because it's easy to
find happiness. It's usually short term, but joy
can be something that you can. There's this wonderful book by
Corey Tin, Boom. I don't know if you've heard of
it. It's called A Hiding Place.
I haven't, I'll have to look that up.
Yeah, it's about this woman who lived through World War Two in
the Holocaust. Anyway, Long story short, I

(18:47):
won't give away too much becauseyou're going to read it, but her
and her sister were in a concentration camp together.
Her sister's dying beside her and they're like these lying
down on these flea infested bedsand her sister is finding joy as
she's dying, being eaten by fleas.
And like Corey is sitting there next to her sister like

(19:07):
questioning how is she finding this in this moment?
And that's how I think this thing, the distinction between
happiness and joy is, is when you have that hope and something
or belief in something in that joy, you can tap into that no
matter where you find yourself, which is a very difficult thing
to catalyze and to bring in to galvanized that you never lose

(19:28):
that. Yeah, it's, it's not earned
easily. And it, and it only comes
through honesty. Yeah.
And and that I think, you know, we live in a society where
there's so many external pressures and so many external
expectations that I don't think a lot of people spend time being
honest with themselves. I think they're either
obligating themselves to be whatthey're supposed to be or

(19:49):
they're, you know, ambitiously chasing what they want to be.
And, and both of those things are not going to take you to
happiness. And you hear it from every,
every rich person that says, Bunny never bought me happiness
or got me happy. And every famous person says,
you know, I got all the fame I ever wanted and I was lonely.
You know, it's the reality is, is if you're chasing what you

(20:09):
think you should do or if you'rechasing what you want to do, you
probably are not chasing your compass.
What is your compass? I, I sent her a lot of my
compass around service around people and, and I think probably
place the highest value on like emotional intelligence, Like I

(20:29):
my ability to evolve my understanding of my existence
and, and how I plug into things and in the areas that I can feel
are genuinely true and exist without emotion and theory.
Like I think are the are the areas where I feel like I'm lost

(20:51):
in alignment with my cause. Has that cause changed past 10
years? Nope.
And I've, I've changed my courseover the past 10 years.
I've changed my course many times over my life, trying to
chase, sometimes chase my ambition, you know, but what I
always find is if I can return back to the original compass, I

(21:11):
become very peaceful, calm and joyful.
If I, I, if I'm chasing my ambitions and I get super, super
successful, but I've sacrificed those, those things that brought
me true joy, I get really lonelyand, and I get really hungry,
you know, so it's like it it to me.
I just think finding that space where and, and, and, and under

(21:32):
testing the model and experiencebetween things that bring you
happiness, you know, and fun versus the things that bring you
peace and joy and peace and joy isn't always super sexy.
You know, it's not always super sexy, but it is incredibly
fulfilling. So and then the fun and
happiness is pretty sexy and it's usually not very.

(21:53):
Fulfilling. Yeah, for sure.
You. Just got to be honest with
yourself about it like and and there is no, there is no one
answer. And every person's going to have
a different equation. But so the only person that can
really answer if they're on, they're following their compass
is them. But there is, there is that
communication within yourself, if you're, if you're willing to
have it, Yeah, you like you, you're your soul will tell you

(22:16):
the score. You know your body, your body
will come back and tell you what's right now.
It's interesting you say your body.
It's amazing how the body is able to remember things when the
mind does not or point out thosethings.
I'm always fascinated with this concept, just being able to lie
to ourselves and believe it as truth.
You say this same lie enough andthen it becomes Canon.

(22:36):
Truth in our world comes. A story right at least becomes a
story you believe. Yeah, yeah.
It's interesting. So the one of the reasons I
married my wife is because she was one of a very few people
that could look at me when I wasjust in a very different frame
of life. I think it's because she has

(22:56):
more emotional intelligence. Well, obviously more than I do,
but more than if anyone I've ever met.
So she was able to look at me and like, when I felt completely
lost inside, forgot who I was and kind of remind me a little
bit of more of who I am and, youknow, speak those positive truth
back into my life to get me backon the compass or on the
straight and narrow. Do you have anyone in your life

(23:17):
who is that for you? Yeah, I've been, I've been
blessed through my life to have good people come in and out of
my life. I, I and I, I I think when I was
younger, one of the hardest things is letting those people
go. When they go, it's very
difficult because you grow superattached to somebody that can
see, see you, maybe see you for who you know, you didn't even

(23:39):
see yourself. That's a real gift when somebody
can come in and and actually seethe better version of you and
kind of help you accomplish that.
I think for me, I've got a few of those people that will be in
my life for my whole life. Like I was lucky enough to have
them. You know, I've got some
friendships that go back to my teens and then I've had other

(24:02):
people come in and be super impactful and then go out, you
know, and, and for me, like you're writing a book that's
life's a book and you're going to have chapters and some of the
characters only exist for a chapter and some of the others
stay in the book front, you know, front to back.
So, and I think the best thing you can do is let a chapter be a
chapter and embrace those relationships when they happen.

(24:23):
And then when they when they move on, you know, don't get,
don't get hung up on them. Yeah, it keeps you from being
present in the next chapter. So.
Very. Would you consider yourself a
stoic person? I'm like I said, I'm a mess.
Yeah, do you ever think you'll not be a mess?

(24:43):
No, I, I don't, I think that's part of who I just choose to be
like. I, I, most of my friends and
people that know me think of me as just a party guy and a good
time person. And I, I do think life should be
good. I think it should be full of
good times and and have fun, butinternally if I'm following my
compass, I have to continue to grow and follow and understand.

(25:06):
What makes a person valuable to you then?
Integrity and authenticity. I really don't care what they
are, who they are, what they believe in, but if they operate
with integrity and they and they're authentically
themselves, there's somebody I want to know.
Yeah, for sure. Do you have siblings?
I do have 5. 05 Wow, where are you at in the lineup?

(25:30):
Yeah, I'm #3. OK.
So you're right in the middle. I'm classic middle child.
Yeah, so you got to learn from the mistakes of the older and.
Yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I, my two older siblings were quite a bit older and then
my younger siblings are right behind me.
So it was kind of like two families in one a little bit,
but yeah. So my I have two younger
sisters. I'm the oldest and like you were

(25:53):
talking about chapters, we have gone through chapters of life
where just mostly because of different levels of maturity.
I'm 33 of one who she's 26 or 7 now.
I don't even know how old she is.
I think she's 28. And then the other one, she's
just turning 21. So there's that gap there.
Me and my 2728 year old sister, it took a while for us to kind
of come to a place because we used to fight like you would not

(26:15):
believe we were. I mean, guerrilla warfare to the
Max behind mom and dad's back, you know, try to get at each
other. My sister scratching her arm and
be like, look what Bob did to me, you know, that kind of
stuff. We're super close now.
My youngest sister, she's 21. We're getting there.
She's starting to mature a little bit more, take
responsibility for her actions in that way, and we're starting

(26:36):
to have a little bit more commonground and just things to
connect on for you and your siblings.
I imagine that there are these different chapters you've gone
through. How has that been?
My family's a complicated equation.
Obviously, we came up in a very dysfunctional home and and so
there's a lot of dysfunction that's attached to us that is
adults. And I think some of us have

(26:56):
worked a little harder at removing that dysfunction than
others. Religion was part of our
upbringing and most of my siblings are still very, very
devout to that religion. And that religion, kind of the
culture around it was such that they were to question and they
were just to, you know, be obedient.
And you know, me being the anarchist that.

(27:20):
Didn't go so well. That just, I mean from the me
coming out of the womb, I was questioning.
And so I, I'm, I'm close to a couple of my siblings because
they have an open mind. The ones that are incredibly
close minded and religious like I'm, I'm not even on the radar.

(27:41):
So, and I'm OK with that. I, I don't again, I don't, I
don't want to surround myself with people that don't operate
in integrity and authenticity. And so if you're if you're kind
of do something for the sake of obedience, but not use your
brain and not use your individuality, I don't think
that even, you know, going even outside of my own belief system,

(28:02):
I don't think that's what God wants for anyone.
If you believe in God and he's our father, I think he wants you
to grow and develop and mature and gain perspective and
knowledge and wisdom. And so if you believe in that
Christianity like story, then you were sent here to have a
body and to have an experience. And you're you, there's only one
way to describe the color orange.

(28:24):
It's used to see it. There's only one way to describe
salt, and that's to taste it. And I think if you go through
life and you're not tasting saltor seeing colors because you've
been told to keep your head downand just be obedient, I feel
like you're wasting the gift thing.
And, and, and my relationship with my siblings is that they

(28:44):
they are more concerned about head down than tasting salt.
Very, very eloquently put. It's interesting to me with what
you're bringing up, you know, the rigidity because I used to
be that. So I grew up also in a somewhat
of a religious household. My parents were first generation
converts into Christianity. So, you know, dad growing up as

(29:06):
a drug dealer doing lots of craziness, my mom being Southern
Baptist but not really practicing, Dad came into the
faith and was like to my mom, hey, you got to convert or I
can't marry you. And so that was her experience
and then she grew into it. But what's interesting is I got
to see a very stark contrast between.
We would have seasons of we are very devout.

(29:27):
Other seasons of there's a keg of beer and stuff in the fridge
and, you know, dad's growing hishair down to his back and he's
back in a band, a rock drummer. So it's just interesting.
I got to see a lot of colors of these, this journey in which I
would say like coming full circle with where I am now.
I think that that is a beauty ofthe relationship that one can

(29:49):
have with, I would say God. Because even in my own marriage
with my wife, we have gone through, after eight years of
being married, these ups and downs and cycles of being a
little miniature versions of different people.
And I think there's a beauty in that because no relationship
should be so completely stagnantbecause there's no growth.
If you're not living, you're dying.
Yeah, it's totally. Impossible.
People will change with every decision they make, and you make

(30:11):
thousands of decisions every day.
Yeah. But it's fascinating to me how
that it's specifically on the topic of religion and rigidity.
There is a comfort and a worshipof the the precepts and laws
rather than the law giver, I guess is what you could say.
Like, there's a lot of comfort for people who don't have, I

(30:31):
don't know, security, Like security, well, I'm doing these
things, so I am this and that. And that can be taken across
sport, that can be taken across anything like become a religion.
As with anything, it's and it, and I don't want to, I don't
want to over like, I, I picked this word kind of gingerly, but
it's radicalized thinking in thesense that it's, you're, you're

(30:53):
removing common sense and you'reremoving like just a calm, quiet
perspective. And you're radicalizing your
beliefs to do a specific set of tasks because you've been told
that you're going to gain a reward or that's what's expected
of you. And I just don't think that our
human development, that's when we adopt that kind of

(31:14):
radicalized thinking. And, and you see it play out to
all extents, you know, throughout the world and all
cultures, when people continue to radicalize their thinking
and, and continue to just keep not using that calm, quiet
perspective and keep adopting bigger and better beliefs.
And, and, and generally those beliefs are fueled by either

(31:35):
fear or greed. You know, whether it's I'm going
to get to heaven if I do all of this.
So it's reward thinking or it's,you know, like I, I, if my, if
my belief system isn't real or true, then everything I stand
for is a lie. And then they get fearful and
they become judgmental. And so for me, it's just like, I

(31:58):
think those organized religions are structures in which we stop
thinking for ourselves. And I don't think that's what
our creator intended. He wanted us to think, grow and
develop and when you get into those structures, those
structures allow people to stop thinking for themselves and just

(32:20):
start doing the hive thinking, if you will.
Yeah, yeah. That group think, do you believe
in God? In a God I do.
I do believe in a creator. There's not.
I have no question in my mind that there's a creator.
So who is God to you? I think he's a lot simpler than
everybody wants it to be. And I think I I would refer to

(32:44):
God as source. And I think all things are
derived from source. And I think if we could stop
trying to label him and stop trying to pick tribes to belong
to, we could start to understandit.
But as long as we attach God to tribes and attach to attach God
to exclusivities, I think we robourselves of our ability to

(33:05):
actually know Him. It's interesting you say
exclusivities because I, I'm always, I'm again, fascinated
with this concept that because Ido believe in a creator God, I
went through, you know, the things why I believe what I
believe. However, it is so fascinating to
me that, you know, the average human lifespan for at least the
past several thousand years is like, what, 80 to 80 years old?

(33:28):
Yeah. And So what can we learn in the
face of eternity over 80 years? Like there's not much I I barely
can figure out what kind of foodI should eat for my best, you
know, operating self, let alone,you know, what is the creator of
the universe. But I'm always fascinated also
with this concept of because we've taught talked about
emotional intelligence and integrity and authenticity.

(33:51):
I'm amazed by this concept of being able to speak because as
I've gotten older, I think something that isn't given
enough credibility or thought into these days is the concepts
around just the power of our words from to the like a very
metaphysical level. Because we go back, you know,
several 100 years and we have people talking about witchcraft

(34:13):
and, you know, conjuring and basically the use of words and
speech to bring up whatever it is that we want to bring up.
So if we do believe as a Christian or in a creator God
that God spoke the world into existence, he gave us that
breath in our own lungs. And we also have the ability to
speak like I don't think people realize the to the metaphysical,

(34:34):
chemical, physical, biological level, what those words can do
to another person on the receiving end, even to
ourselves. It's just like, it's completely
mind blowing to me. I wish that there was a a way to
give that to people. But like you said, it's like the
color orange. You can only experience it by
seeing it. I.
Mean, but it's there. I can and you know, if you're
Christian, you have you have beliefs in Jesus and that if you

(34:57):
go back and you study Jesus, like really study him, not what
his apostles wrote thereafter, But if you study him, he was
actually anti religion. And he spoke of very simple
truths of not being judgmental, of using your mind, of being
calm, of being peaceful, of being joyful.
That's what he was trying to getus to see.

(35:20):
And in doing that, you start to get to know God, like that's
what he taught. And he didn't teach you to go to
church on Sunday and don't like this religion because they're
doing it different than you did.And I think the apostles put all
of that into Christianity because they were having a hard
time convincing people around them how amazing Jesus was

(35:41):
because they didn't see Jesus first time.
They didn't see the color orange.
So they created these bigger stories and more elaborate
schemes and things to make it more heavy and more impactful
because we're human beings at the end of the day.
And when you tell a story, if people aren't listening, what do
you do? You make the story more
interesting and that's human nature.
So but then you have other religions where you had another

(36:02):
person come down and they did the same thing.
They taught self centering thought, Peace of Mind.
And that's how you get to know Source.
So I think it's there in front of it.
I don't. But I think us as human beings
have this attraction that goes full circle back to our
ambitions and our, and our egos.Like we have this attraction for

(36:24):
things being bigger, bigger, bigger.
And we eventually make a bigger,bigger, bigger.
And that's why I think we've lost that voice or that breath
or that speak, because we're notkeeping it.
Yeah. Speaking of simple, like you
talked about on a number of occasions now, I think it would
be such a benefit to all society.

(36:46):
And I think This is why newer developed societies or cultures
are a little bit more in touch with, regardless of the
religion, just in touch with like that kindness, that love
precept being able to garden. I don't know if you've ever
gotten into like actual gardening, but working with in.
Idaho, Yeah. So I spent plenty of time
pulling weeds. Yeah, you pull weeds.

(37:06):
You you plant things. You you see the fragility of
certain species of plant over another.
There's so much to be learned about the human condition when
you work in the dirt and physically it grounds you,
right. So there's some science behind
that stuff. But it's so interesting, like
looking at how plants grow. You can learn so much just about
the human cycle of life, just how we work, even mentally.

(37:26):
It's so mindful nature. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean you, you can.
Learn You can learn all you really need to know by looking
at the patterns in nature and the patterns in our bodies.
Our bodies are very unique, veryunique thing.
And as somebody that creates products like to think about the
creation of the human body and the, the, the miracle it is like

(37:48):
the fact it regenerates and all the things it does and it's
self-contained and it's like it runs on minimum fuel and like
it's an incredible machine. And I think if you can step back
and look at the patterns in you like in your body and how your
body operates, you know, musclesget stronger when you use them.
When you don't use them, they gain atrophy, you become sick.

(38:09):
And I'll, if you don't exercise and take care of yourself, like
that's the same stuff that applies to high stuff that
applies to a business. Like if you're, if you're, if
you're exercising it and you're using it, it's going to get
stronger. And, and you look at that same
pattern in nature when things are taken care of and they're,
you know, safe for a plant, it'splanted in the right soil with

(38:31):
the right amount of moisture, it's going to flourish.
You stick it in the wrong place,it's going to die.
I mean, we, we are, we are also beings of nature.
And we we're, you know, living in nature's law.
And I sometimes think we get so caught up in technology and in
advancement and, and innovation and all of this stuff that just
pulls us farther and farther away and, and we're becoming

(38:54):
less happy as people. Like it's showing.
It's showing, you know, in the data now.
It's not, it's not a theory anymore.
It's in the data that people aregetting genuinely more than
happy. Yeah, and it's every time we add
a complexity to life that makes our lives a little easier, we
use the muscle less. Atrophy.

(39:15):
And I think we're suffering frommental atrophy as a society now.
That's so interesting. Yeah, 100% true.
I could talk on this philosophical stuff forever.
So we but for the sake of like getting to your story a little
bit more. You're going to have to edit
some of that out. No, heck no, no, no, no.
This is the the greatest conversations I have are the

(39:35):
ones that start out like this. So I'm because now we have a
foundation for people understanding a little bit of
who you are and why you believe what you believe and what you
do. But walk me through a little bit
of your entrepreneurial journey.I would love to hear first, just
when did when did you become aware that oh, like I, I'm an
entrepreneurial. I'll move really quick.
It's a long story, but I'll movereally quick and just give you
like the the 411 like a quick Reader's Digest synopsis.

(39:58):
So like I said, I was on my own at 15 and the place I got a job
was a car wash and so. I was able to finagle my way
through school before computers really.
So like you could have to take forms home and then forge your
mom's signature. You know, of course, I had this
single mom that was that was always at work and never
available through high school. So I was always taking paperwork

(40:19):
to and from home and then I would just hoard signatures.
And so I was able to finagle my way through high school until my
senior year. And I had one teacher that just
wouldn't work with me and so kept sending me to the
counselor's office, the counselor.
I finally confessed to the counselor but I was terrified to
tell anyone because I thought for sure they would like call
the state or something and I would get I would be.

(40:40):
Out. Pulled out of the, the, the
reality I had created for myself, which was actually out
of fun. So anyway, I was working at this
car wash and they decided there was, they had several locations
and they wanted an additional cash revenue system or their
center. And they brought in the
consultant and the consultant decided to do detail base and
that consultant took me and my buddy because we were hard

(41:03):
working and gave us the opportunity to be part of the
setup of their detail base. So they, he literally took the
time and by today's standards, this could never happen.
But he would literally buy us beer.
And mind you, I'm 17171617. He would buy us beer and pizza
at his apartment in you know, like in downtown And we would go

(41:25):
to his apartment and he would coach us up on what we needed to
do to start this business. And then he would give us books
to read and there. And it was all kinds of books.
It was business books to like the little Prince or the
reluctant Messiah. Like it was all he was.
He would just literally groomed us AS2 individuals.
And I, I can't thank the guy enough.
Like I didn't realize at the time what I was learning, but he

(41:49):
basically taught us how to set up a business.
He taught us how to do the costing.
He taught us how to do the billing.
Like he walked us through all ofit.
And so over the course of the next year and a half, I set up
detail bays and ran detail bays successfully, not realizing what
I was learning. Then I after, after I got out of
high school, I had the opportunity to move to
California. I'd grow up, grown up

(42:10):
skateboarding and snowboarding. I'd snowboarded through high
school when it became a thing and, and wanted to go learn how
to surf. So I moved to California to
learn to surf. Sitting and waiting for surf,
surf sets or wave sets come in or whatever.
We would, we'd hang out and justchat with me and my buddies and
we worked in a surf shop and youknow it back then.

(42:31):
It was when like Bill Long and Quicksilver and like Stucy and
all those guys were just starting to come out with like
big print T-shirts and we were like, man, we could do this no
problem. And so we started a little
company called full on surf wearand sold T-shirts and, and beach
pants and, and, and it was like when we were sitting out there
talking about it, I was like, well, I know how to set up a

(42:53):
business because I just, it's detail based ignorance of youth.
And so we actually went for it and we set up business and
started doing that. Unfortunately, some family stuff
happened and I, at that point inmy life, left California and
went back to deal with my familystuff.
And that's when I first reconnected with my dad after
six years of just being, you know, fully separated from

(43:14):
family. So went back and met with my dad
and, and dealt with some of thatstuff and then got a, just got a
simple job at a window company. I was just doing window
manufacturing. But because of my ambition at
that point and because of my past history, I was always
coming up with, why don't we trythis?

(43:35):
Why don't we try that? I went to a trade show and in
the back corner there was a guy selling vinyl extrusions for
vinyl windows. And now every window, and you
know, most every window that goes into a new home is either
wood or vinyl. But back when I was doing it,
everything was aluminum and it was really not thermally
efficient. And I saw the vinyl.

(43:55):
And so I ran and grabbed my bossat the time and just said, hey,
like you got to come look at this.
I think this is legit. I think this is a big deal.
And he, he loved the idea. So he talked to his partners
partner wasn't into it. So he came back to me and said,
Hey, I'm thinking of branching off and go and start my own
window company. You want to come with me?
So that ended up being business 3 that I got involved in.

(44:16):
And at that point I was, you know, 2122 and ended up starting
a vinyl window company with thisguy.
And it was, it was my first foray into like real
manufacturing. And so I, I, I ran, I ran the
fact I ran the factory and, and it taught me a lot about
manufacturing. So at this point, now I've had

(44:36):
the experience of learning how to start a business.
I've had the experience of developing a brand centric
product, which surf and skate isvery brand centric.
And now I've had the opportunityto work in a manufacturing role.
And each of these kind of parlayed into me becoming who I
am today. Like, and it's, I look back on
it and at the time it was just chaos and noise, but it was

(44:57):
actually a really beautiful prepping for me to, I worked my
way into a leadership role whereI know every aspect of the
business. So I, I, I left the window
company and I took a job at a machine shop working for my
brother ended up owning that machine shop.
That machine shop moved to Vegas.

(45:19):
That's how I ended up owning is the guy moved it to Vegas, ran
out of money and I ended up having to buy it so people could
remain employed. I, I took it over.
We started cutting tools for a carbon fiber company.
I was, I've always been really into riding bikes and I've
always been into automotive, automotive stuff and automotive
racing. And that's when carbon fiber was

(45:40):
just starting to show up on Formula One cars and whatnot.
So it was super like, oh, material, like exciting
material. So the idea of learning anything
about carbon was super exciting.And I ended up selling that
machine shop to the composite company that I was cutting the
tools for and became the VP of the composite company.

(46:00):
And then we present, we went from there into doing a bunch of
really unique carbon fiber products and then eventually
sold that business. And I went to, I went with the
business as like a technical expert to teach people how to
manufacture stuff the way you'remanufacturing it, build my 2

(46:21):
year commitment and had a falling out with those guys.
I wasn't a very good employee. I've always kind of been my own
boss. I've been there.
And, and at the end of my two years, I left and went and
started Edge composites, which became Envy, which is what you
probably know from your Thai background.
And yeah, it, it, the nice thingabout the edge envy experience

(46:44):
is it's the first time in my professional career where I
wasn't inhibited by anything. I didn't have a boss or, or a
partner or a, a senior like a, an older partner that was
telling me what I can and can't do.
And it was, it was the first time I was able to take how I
feel like something should be branded, how I think something

(47:04):
should be made and, and create aculture and the workforce around
it and kind of create a company culture that supported it.
And I, it was, it was a validation to all of my beliefs,
if that makes sense. It went and it went well and,
and so now I use, I've now I've just been sharpening, you know,

(47:25):
the blade, if you will, on becoming better at, at the
culture part of it and creating a more positive culture to get a
positive outcome. And you know, and obviously I, I
still am very much in love with innovation and creating new
products and, and testing what can and can't be done.

(47:46):
But that that's that's essentially nice synopsis of of
how I got to where I am. Yeah, very beautiful.
And so with just coming up to modern day or I guess not quite
modern day, but when you startedand you get into that world,
like you said, there were these three aspects that you really
honed in on how you think it should be built culturally, the
product and branding. What what is it about the

(48:12):
quality aspect of actually making the product that was most
difficult in coming to a place of this is my ideation of
expectation of quality. And then arriving at that, were
you ever 100% happy with the quality that you achieved?
Here's the irony of business. The worst people and, and I can

(48:32):
say this with confidence, the worst people for the future
state of a business is the financial people.
Financial people want gains now and they will cut corners now to
get the gains they want now. That's how they think.
It's how they've been trained. They live in 12 month
increments. Like that's how they think and
feel. The problem with that is, is if

(48:55):
you think that way, you don't build something that has
stability to last over time and you make compromises in the
product and you make compromisesin the culture and you make
compromises in the branding. And if you do that, then you
start to erode your long term runway.
Unfortunately in our business, the two areas of people that get

(49:16):
constantly, they always get the advancements in the business are
financial people or salespeople.And both of those people live in
12 month increments, they live on 12 month goals.
So building long term stability is very difficult with that
training or that mindset. So for me at envy, it was the
first time I could put my foot down and say, no, we're not

(49:38):
going to compromise on the product.
I we're not going to compromise on how we brand.
And I know that this isn't what you guys see everyone else
doing. And I know that you, because
those guys love to look at things through ROI's and ROI's
always have to be validated by an external model, right?
So you can't validate an ROI on your feelings or your vision.
You have to go out and find an example of how it's worked in

(50:01):
the past and why you're doing it.
So in in the I had read in an article, I think it was Harvard
and Harvard Review, Business Review about actually, I take
that back, it's the opposite. It was an intercompany document
from Google about Harvard MBA isthe number one way to kill an

(50:24):
innovation company. I.
Love it. Because they do so much based on
historical business model. And the reality is if you're
building a future based company or an innovative based company
off of a historical model, then you're not building an
innovation based company. So for me, I think that the,
the, the quickest path to success is this you, you, you

(50:48):
make a great product and you tell a great story and then you
back it up with great customer service.
If you do those three things, then the financial thing takes
care of itself and the sales thing takes care of itself.
So you put the demons in their box and they can do their job,
but they're not going to hurt the long term growth of the

(51:10):
company. If you make a questionable
product or you don't market it in a successful way and you
don't back it up with good customer service, you're going
to start to struggle. And then when you start to
struggle, the natural recourse of struggle is always going to
be empower the financial guy or empower the sales guy.
Yeah. And then you're falling into

(51:30):
that 12 month cycle, which is how you're.
So then bringing it up to modernday, like you've started this
company a number of years ago, GT, DMX and bikes, So what?
GT I didn't start. GT started in 1972 and I was I
was brought in so it GTGT was the biggest deal in bike in the

(51:53):
70s, eighties, 90s, OK, like early 90s.
And the best riders in the worldrace GT like the best riders in
the world rode GT and they were a Goliath.
And then the one of the foundersdied in a motorcycle accident
and he was the he was the horsepower.
Vt stands for Gary Turner, who'sstill around.
And Gary did all the welding andbike design, but he had a
partner named Richard Long that drove the business.

(52:16):
He understood the unique business model.
He's the one that made it irreverent and exciting and took
it global and done an amazing job with it.
But he unfortunately died in a motorcycle accident.
And when he died, it was like they pulled the motor out of the
car and the car stopped, stoppedmoving.
And so then it got sold several times.
And at the beginning of 2003, I guess or maybe it's. 20/22/20.

(52:41):
Two yeah, 2022 They, they, it was sold to pawn and they
brought me on in May to turn thebrand around.
And at that point, the brand hadbeen was being sold in big box
stores, Dick's Sporting Goods, and had lost all of its.
Brand value, yeah. So we had spent the last, you
know, three years now getting rid of a lot of COVID inventory

(53:03):
with not very good spec on it. And then and then designing new
bikes and whatnot to, to relaunch the brand as kind of a,
a back where it should have been, you know, back as an IBD
brand selling high quality products.
Unfortunately, Pawn made the decision to shut GT down.
So we're now in the process of ashutdown.

(53:24):
So everything me and my team didfor the last couple years is not
going to get a chance to see thelight of day, which is a little
look, a little bit of a bummer, but you know, it's tough.
It's tough times in the bike industry right now.
For everybody, do you have rights to start a new company
and with these designs, is that a possibility?

(53:46):
Well, like the designs that we created belonged upon, like
they, they belong to the organization and I'm not sure
what they're going to do with those.
We've, we've been in the processof like turning everything over
back to the greater group and they'll, they'll do what they're
going to do with the brand. I did, I did spend some time
last year with the, with the another ex pawn employee trying,

(54:10):
you know, we, we, we made an attempt to try to buy the brand
and, and tried to see it through, but it, it ended up
being in vain. Yeah.
I just send it. I think it, I think for the, the
group I work for, they, they, they hold, you know, that they,
you know, I don't know for a fact this is the case, but I do

(54:32):
believe they're the largest bikeconglomerate in the world now.
And, and, you know, they, they, they've decided that they want
to hold on to the brand for the brand value of it.
And so that there'll be some, you know, there'll be some
future play with GT of some kind.
I don't know what that looks like, but they're going to keep
the brand in house and they're just going to try to navigate

(54:53):
the, the pressures of the current moment with all the
tariffs and all the like, you know, X the, the COVID hangover
and whatnot. The bike industry's taken a
beating for the last five years and, and, and the tariffs aren't
going to help. So they're just, they're just
trying to navigate it from theirperspective.
And, and you know, like, kind ofmy phrase for the last five

(55:14):
years is like everybody that I talked to within this industry
is like, we're dealing with stuff nobody's ever dealt with
before. So nobody has the answers.
You know, it's like it's going to really boil down to who's got
the inspiration on how to navigate these unique times
because they are totally unique.So where does that leave you
with your future? I'll be looking for my next

(55:35):
chapter. You know I'm closing this
chapter. Yeah, getting ready to write the
next one. Yeah, well, it seems like you've
figured out how to work not necessarily for, but with other
people with something that you don't own outright.
Do you miss the envy days? Do you have a Oh yeah.
Does that get back to that? No.
It's, it's very difficult for meto work in an organization where

(55:57):
I can't move at the speed or theagility that I like to move.
And, and I'll be honest with you, I think business is
becoming, it's, it's getting to a place where it almost mandates
that level of agility or you aregoing to get left behind.
Like we, our society is moving faster and faster and faster all
the time. And if you're going to have a

(56:17):
successful business, you have tooperate with the level of of
speed and how you respond to to every change that comes your way
because there's always going to be one of one of your
competitors is going to move that quickly and that gives them
an advantage. And, you know, like business is
highly competitive. Yeah.
So it's like you got to think ofit as a competitor and not as a

(56:39):
conservator. Yeah.
So you're landing this plane right now.
How long is your runway to when you decide to take off again to
the next I? Don't sit sail for very long,
yeah. So you're like a Bush plane,
you're going to touchdown and you're gone.
So you already have things. That works.
Yeah. I just, I, I, I, I try to
operate in integrity all the time.
So I am, I haven't, I haven't put much time into what I'm

(57:02):
doing next, to be honest. I, I, I don't feel like I can
have those conversations in integrity with anyone because I
one, I have work to do here to clean it up still and I want to
clean it up the best way I can. So I, there were a lot of, we
had a lot of partners that, thatkind of bought into this story.
We're going to turn it around. And so I need to make sure all

(57:23):
those partners get taken care ofproperly.
The company I work for is willing to do the right thing
and take care of people properly.
So there's, there's no reason for me not to stick around and
make sure that that gets done And, and once all of that is
done and, and done correctly, then then I'll, I'll look at

(57:43):
what's next. But I, I, I don't want to, I, I,
I find you do your best work if you're focused and I I'm not
done focusing on the current job.
Yeah, you don't seem like the type that would ever want to
retire. I, you know, I had some quiet
times after MBI had about a yearafter MB and there there was
legal proceedings that I was caught up in and there were non

(58:05):
competes and there were all kinds of nonsense I was dealing
with. It gave me a, a, a view of what
retirement would look like. And I got, I, I loved it for
about 90 days. Yeah.
And. Then you were.
Like, and then after that I got really bored.
And what I would suggest to you is like, if you're doing
business correctly, if you're working in a business field

(58:28):
correctly in a place that you truly want to be, it becomes
your social circle. It becomes your, your, your, the
way you navigate life. It becomes part of who you are
and, and if you're in a place you really enjoy, that's pretty
irreplaceable. And I can't, I am a people

(58:49):
person and I love having my people and I love having my
tribe I run around with. And I, I, I don't see how I
would be really happy without having kind of that thing that
I'm always focused on or trying to improve or trying to make
better. You know, I, I think, I think I

(59:13):
just, I take a lot of joy and purpose out of it.
Yeah. So and I, I know that's not for
everybody, but for me, like the ability to continue to, to
invent or to make things better is what gets me out of bed every
day. Working is living, not living is
working. It's I'm, if I had a child,
let's just say son or daughter, they become really successful.

(59:33):
They go through, make something great of themselves.
I'm just inherently very proud of the parenting I did.
And then what they were able to become once I, you know, stood
them up and they could walk and then run.
It would be very hard for me to sell that child.
Was it difficult for you to sellEnvy?

(59:54):
Yeah, I was. I didn't sell envy.
I got pushed out by financial partners.
It was it was soul crushing. You know, you had mentioned the
Steven Jobs. You know the Steve Jobs movie,
The Ashton Kutcher when I did see, and there is the scene
where. Screaming the person.
Shakes his hand and, you know, at the at the awards banquet or

(01:00:15):
whatever and says, you know, we just really want you to know we
got your back and we're behind you all the way.
And then like a month later, they're exiting him out of his
own business and he's screaming and punching the roof of his
car. My story exactly.
Envy was my baby. It was very difficult to grow
because it was a manufacturer and a product based company and

(01:00:37):
in the bike industry that's rare.
It's very rare that somebody does their own manufacturing.
So with the explosive growth, itwas very, very expensive because
it wasn't just placing more purchase orders and increasing
our inventory. It was we.
Had to buy equipment, we had to train people, we had to do
second shifts. Like it was extremely
challenging and I bled for that company for years.

(01:01:01):
And then in a very inopportune time, I was, I was taken
advantage of by my partners and I was going through a divorce
with my wife, my mother and my children.
And I was not focused on, I was focused on that and not my
business. And, and I was taken advantage

(01:01:22):
of pretty harshly and and then pushed out of my own dream.
And so I really, I had a, it took, it took me years.
It took me years to even be ableto like not to think about
things just 100% on where I was presently and not have just
sheer rage over what was taken from me.

(01:01:43):
So it was, it was a very brutal process.
Do you think that you would ever, I guess it's it probably
seems like too big now to like get back to that place where
they're calling you up to come rescue it, but.
Oh, they've sold it now. They've sold it and it's been
sold again. And like, so the people that did

(01:02:03):
me dirty, I mean, aside from a few of the management team, like
most of the people that did me dirty are gone.
And they made their money. They made a lot of money off of
it. I did not so, but yeah, it's,
it's, it's something I'll never be OK with.
Like, but it's one of those things where it's like, I can
grow from it or I can be victimized by it.

(01:02:24):
And I'm, I'm choosing growth, but I'll never be OK with those
people. They, they, you know, my, my
kids had to eat top Roman for months as I fought for, you
know, pennies on dollars that I had earned.
So yeah, I, I'll never be OK with those people.
They're not great people. Yeah, sheesh, Man, I don't even
know what to say. I mean, that's like super

(01:02:45):
difficult. I can't imagine being in that
situation. Like I've I've had plenty of
failed businesses and minor successes, but to be shoved out
of something that I to be forcedhaving to give my child forced
adoption like that seems like a very difficult thing to to that
was it. Was not fun.
It was, it was fun at all. It was a it was a tough, it was

(01:03:05):
a tough life experience. But I've had a few.
Yeah, they are what they are. Yeah.
How old are you? I'm. 53. 53 so you've got
another lifetime to live. I look forward to seeing what
the next next businesses are that you crank out and hopefully
some books. I mean you, I don't say this
lightly, like you're very articulate with the way that you
think and believe and operate. So I'm wondering if you keep

(01:03:25):
track of these things that you ever have any intention to
publish them or? I I've been told that a lot.
I just, I guess I don't value myopinion enough to put it on
paper. That's probably fine.
Well, how about this? We'll record 1 episode per day
for the next two months, and we'll turn every transcript into
a a chapter. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:03:46):
Yeah, no, but no. It's I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm
really, I'm. I feel really grateful that I've
had the life I've had. It's come, it's come with its
fair share of stripes on my back.
But like, it's also been, I've had a very exciting life.
Yeah. Crazy stuff.
I've travelled the world. I've met amazing people like,

(01:04:07):
yeah, I, I feel very blessed. Yeah, for sure.
Well, I do want to have you on again in the future just to hear
some, yeah. We didn't.
We didn't get much into the business side, but it apparently
the conversation went where it was supposed to go.
So yeah. No, no, it was great.
Yeah, I appreciate it. If I if I have more time, I
definitely would want to sit down a little bit further.
So I definitely want to schedulea future time to talk about some

(01:04:27):
more of the things because I hadmy first ever introduction to
business like real business was manufacturing, although it was
in China and it was with textileproducts.
I fell in love with that side ofthe world geographically, but
also with just the long term mindset of making things and
working with people to work across language barriers to to
manufacture a product. Yeah, we should talk about I'd.

(01:04:49):
Be open to it. Let me know I'll.
Send you some dates then sweet I'm.
Ready to have some time too, so now's a good time for me to
talk. Yeah, beautiful, sweet.
Well, I'll send you some dates then.
But Jason, man, thank you so much for taking the time and
it's sharing so freely and openly just about your personal
life for the 1st 40 minutes or so.
That's it's very. I got enough of that.
Yeah. Beautiful.

(01:05:10):
Thank you. All right.
Cheers. Well, thanks for your time Sir.
Take. Care, thank you so much to Jason
for coming on and sharing from such a personal and deep level
there at the beginning. Really appreciate the different
philosophy, philosophies that heoperates his life around with
integrity and truth. So again, thank you so much to
Jason for coming on. Looking forward to having you on
again, if you made to this point, the podcast, just want to

(01:05:32):
say thank you so much. Really appreciate you guys being
here. Check out the show notes and
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(01:05:52):
That continues to help grow the podcast.
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Thank you guys so much for beinghere.
I really appreciate you. Well can connect with you in the
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See ya.