Episode #24 - Nicole van Beurden, Inventor, Former Professional Triathlete, Carbon Fiber Expert - Stupid Questions with Seth Hill

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
How's it going everybody? And welcome to this next edition
of the Stupid Questions Podcast.Today we're going to be talking
with Nicole Van Bearden. She is a professional athlete in
the past with triathlon. She's the founder of two
companies, Elavo and Soar and many other things, running a
small business in carbon fiber repairs and painting and also a
coach. She's done a lot.

(00:21):
She has a lot of experience and this is actually a 2 hour long
podcast where she dives into herbackground, but then we talk a
lot about the techie stuff, about behind carbon fiber and
where the industry is, where it's going, about her
partnership with Phil who is theI believe is the Co founder of
Cervelo and so many other things.
So without further ado, please enjoy this podcast with Nicole

(00:43):
Van Bearden. Hey, and just one more note
really quick. So for this episode we had some
kind of a recording issue that Ithought or audio recording issue
that I thought we'd be able to get figured out.
Unfortunately, we were not able to do it to the best of how we
would like it to sound. However, we're still going to
publish it because it's a reallygood conversation and especially
if you're a technology driven person or mechanical type of

(01:05):
person and like the techie stuff, this is a really good
episode. So we didn't want to cut it out.
So please forgive us for that, but thank you.
Yeah. So, Nicole, where are you from?
Where you at? I'm in Toronto right now and I'm
originally from Toronto, so I was born and raised in Toronto,
and then I've been all sort of about Ontario and various other

(01:26):
places. So while I was racing, I spent
half of my year sort of down South in the States between
Florida, mostly in Florida and Claremont and then Arizona, and
then in the non winter months inCanada.
I was back here in Toronto and then I moved after university to

(01:47):
Niagara, lived there while I wasracing and then went from there
to Barrie for a bunch of years until COVID hit.
And then now I'm back in Toronto.
Yeah, so were you born and raised in Toronto?
Yeah, yeah, downtown Toronto. Which is just awesome for one
year. Starting to get into cycling.
Worst place to to ride. For sure, For sure.

(02:10):
Well, first of all, just want toback up a little bit and say
thank you so much for coming on.It's really neat.
I've been doing some research, just trying to figure out the
best questions to ask and you'vegot quite an interesting story.
So I'm excited to jump into it. But the first question I want to
ask you is more of a third person, one in in your own
words, who is Nicole Van Beardenif I said the last name right?

(02:32):
Oh gosh, yeah, that's fine. So you you can say just as well
as I can because I'm not. Is a Dutch last name and I can't
pronounce it correctly because I'm not fluent in Dutch and I
don't have the accent. So that's great.
Who am I? I am.
I would say I'm sort of a a curious thinker and that's kind

(02:52):
of what's driven a lot of my my my journey through, you know,
figuring things out in life and tinkering and and I'm a cyclist
by nature. Like, that's one of the things
that I've always loved. I picked up a bike the first

(03:12):
time. It was my friend's bike.
I think I was in kindergarten and I wanted to ride a bike and
I wanted a bike and there was, you know, three of us kids at
home at the time. So to buy 33 bikes, my parents
were like, no, let's just wait and see.
But then I went to my friend's house and when my parents came

(03:32):
to pick me up, I was riding a few wheel bike and they're like,
how how do you know how to ride a few wheel bike?
And I guess we should probably get her one.
So that kind of started it. And one other thing that I've
always loved. I'm like, my parents never
really. They were always like, you go to
school, do your homework. Yep.
Beyond your house. All this and the one allowance

(03:57):
they gave us or my mom would do is she would write a doctor's
note for my younger brother and I.
So we both raced on the Friday so the opening day of the bike
show in Toronto so that we couldget out of school to be there
for the opening. So, so I've always got bikes and
I raced and then I'm. I'm highly curious by nature and

(04:20):
I've always sort of disappoint, followed my curiosity and let me
in weird places. Sweet, so very curious person.
So tell me a bit about your family life.
Do you get more of that curiosity from, like, your mom
or your dad? Or is this like a totally Nicole
thing? Oh, it's definitely for my dad.
My dad is has always been somebody who solves problems in

(04:46):
atypical ways, which is like it's just more of thinking
outside of the box and having the understanding that there's
not one one solution to any given problem.
So anytime you're faced with a problem it's the first try
doesn't get you the solution that you want then you just try
another so you can take a different tack right.

(05:07):
So and then he also does a lot of tinkering so like hand stuff.
So he he does like RC stuff likeradio controlled planes and some
boats and he also builds a lot like he did a lot of
construction and repair on a house when I was little.
So and that was something that Ithink it was mostly self-taught

(05:31):
at first. So it's yeah, just I grew up
with that, so it was pretty normal to me.
Yeah, for sure. And So what does your dad do
like as a profession now? He's he does so he does custom.
So he's gotten into construction.
He started out in business and business and marketing and then

(05:54):
when I was looking at grade three he switched to
construction. So it started out with home
finishing and then it was insurance repairs.
So my parents, both them together, started a business and
my mom does the design side. My dad does so like carrying out
a of the building, and so now hedoes like mostly kitchens,

(06:15):
bathrooms, house redesign, repair.
Yeah. So the reason I asked that
question kind of twice, I guess because asking what he did, I
was curious if he did other things and it sounds like you
grew up in an entrepreneurial household.
So how was that dynamic with like your mom and your dad?
Cause your dad seems kind of like the driven type to go out

(06:37):
and try and do something new. Is your mom a supporter and that
like of course she's a supporter.
I guess they're still married and you grew up that way, but
how does she fit into that picture?
They're both pretty much the same.
And they've always, yeah, well, they've.
My mom had no other things that were hands on my mom when I grew
up because there were, you know,three of us within four within

(06:59):
three years. Yeah, that's a pretty, it's a
lot, it's a lot for her. So she had custom cake business,
which again is is hands on and more artistic sort of
construction wedding cakes and various other types of
occasional cakes. And I always helped her with it.

(07:21):
So there was also building and design and all of that, and I
would do all the painting and onthe the cakes for her, sort of
while I was young and in elementary school.
I took visual arts as well, all the way up until university and
then. So I had an artistic background
and a lot of things that I did and both my parents were hands
on and they ran their own businesses, so to speak.

(07:47):
So I want to get back to siblings.
You said four siblings or you are included in the four.
Yeah yeah. So are they similar to you?
Are you all ultra high performing Inventor
entrepreneurial types? Well, heck no.
We're all different since we allthink about families.
My older brother is a computer programmer and he's one of those

(08:09):
kids who got 99 and 100% in, youknow, all of the high school
like algebra and calculus and finite and chemistry and biology
and and all of those. So I like to make the joke
because he was first born a second and it's like he took all
of his brain cells plus some of my so and he does mountain

(08:35):
biking and rock climbing. So that's what he did and now
he's a a father of three and he's he's a he's a computer
programmer, has been since sincehigh school.
My next younger brother Chris said he's the one that I raced
with. So he did triathlon, duathlon at
a very high level and right now he is a high school teacher in

(09:00):
Guelph ON and he does a lot of sort of side jobs of
construction and woodworking. And then my youngest brother Tom
is in the Air Force. OK, nice.
So he's so we're all kind of very different.
Yeah, it seems like high performing though.
And nonetheless, I mean, so yourbrother who did triathlon stuff

(09:22):
with you and and the high level,did he actually race
professionally as well? Yes, yeah, yeah.
So he was on and he was on the national team for many years to
Athlon, but he he would have been more of the Olympic
distance athlete. But his swim was never as good
as the top level swimmers and because it was a draft legal
format it's it's really tough. So he went in to do Athlon, did

(09:47):
really well there and yeah, kindof went between there, did some
half iron distance ones, but I think that wasn't his
preference. Yeah, for sure.
So what kind of memories from your childhood do you have that
are just, like really stand out?And do any of them serve as like
a guide or a base or something you go back to frequently as you

(10:08):
move forward in life? So I guess one that always seems
one that's a stand out, it's notreally a memory but it's kind of
an ongoing memory. And this one I cited to to many
people before whatever we did askids.
So my dad one way that he tried to get us to just try things
like my parents were really goodat not caring about what it was

(10:32):
that we followed. Like as long as we followed
something that that drove us andthat we had a passion towards,
they would absolutely support usin doing that.
My dad had this ongoing bet. No, it was an event.
It was when we when we did events.

(10:53):
So track and field, cross country, anything that was a
race like a if we entered a 10K or a half marathon or anything
like that he would give us. We didn't get allowance or
anything. So this is a precursor because
it seems very cheap right now, but $1.00 for crossing the start
line, which means that you showed up to the thing that you

(11:17):
intended to do. So you cross the start line
which means that you did all thepre required training to get you
there. $1.00's a crossing the finish line which meant that you
finished what you started and then $1.00 if you got a personal
vest which meant that it's it's the only way.
And this is one thing I think that helped set my mindset is

(11:40):
the only person I ever compared myself to was my own past
performances. So I was never deterred by
coming in. Not the best placing.
If it was against like a really strong field, because I would
look at the positives and see ifthere's something that I did
better in this race than I ever had before, then that's a win,

(12:01):
right? The so the, you know, perfect
score is you start, you finish and you do better than you ever
have done before. That means that you are
increasing your ability, your skill, and you're getting
towards, you know, seeing what you're capable of.
Yeah, for sure. For you and all your siblings.
Were you all encouraged to do the cross country like that kind

(12:24):
of stuff, or were you all just interested in it?
Because it sounds like you've touched on many sports.
Yeah, yeah, I used to. I used to play all sports.
Like a kind of any sport that was there, I would have done.
And I think that was just because I needed something to
do, like I needed to move. I don't sit still.
Well. So in all the way from
elementary school onwards, I dida whole bunch of sports.

(12:47):
In high school, I think I did like 7 different sports.
Yeah, I I actually ran. Go for it.
Yeah, and then university first year, I think I did.
It almost killed me. I did varsity basketball and
track and field and like cross country.
And I was also training and racing triathlon at the same
time. So that was in second year I had
this sort of make a decision, soI dropped basketball after first

(13:11):
year and I stuck with the endurance sports.
But yeah, it was, it was kind ofany sports sports, yeah.
And I was I was driven, but not all of us were.
Yeah, for sure. So basketball is very different
than swim, biking and running. But you obviously loved it to a
great degree. So I'm curious, do you ever

(13:33):
think about now like, oh, what if I went and went to, like, the
basketball route? Could I have played for the
WNBA? Or do you ever think about that
kind of thing? Or you like No, I triathlon's
all it. No, it's a different, it's a
different sport all together andit there's a lot more involved.
So including like positions and how teams are selected and how

(13:54):
teams work together because it'sbeing on the court has to do
with the other four people on the court with you plus the
other people on the bench that are that make up your team.
So that's a really hard thing tocome across when you have a team
that works really well together and plays as a team and highly,

(14:16):
unselfishly and does all the It's always It can be a
frustrating sport depending on the team you play on or the
people you play with or the coaching staff.
I love the game. I still play.
I still play at least once a week.
Yeah, yeah. So it's it's kind of the one

(14:37):
thing I do and I show up with. I'm always bruised everywhere.
All I ask is to what do you do to yourself?
I was like, oh, I play basketball.
Yeah, I mean, if you get bruised, you must play pretty
seriously. Is this like a a local league
that you're a part of, or is it just a group of friends like?
Yeah, it's a it's a league. I play in a couple of leagues

(14:59):
and they're fairly high level leagues.
But I'm just I it's my the one time I touch a ball ever is just
when I'm on the court right now because I I I work too many
hours right now. But it's good.
So when I'm on the court I just work as hard as I can.
Yeah, you often end up somewhereon the floor.

(15:21):
Yeah, for sure. So I don't want to get ahead too
much, but I'm curious, like, youdon't race triathlons
professionally anymore, correct?Correct.
Yes. That was part of balancing sort
of life work racing like it was such a hard balance because the
amount of training required to race at the highest level

(15:44):
competitively while still makinga living.
And it was also like a hard timein my life and it I was giving
up sleep, so I was getting two hours of sleep at night trying
to do both, which obviously doesn't yield to your greatest
performance. No, not.
At all. And so I was always coaching at
the same time. So that's one thing that's

(16:06):
continued all the way through. And then I I got back into
racing for a little bit and thenI tore all three hamstrings in
one of my legs. It had one injury.
That's kind of like sidelined mefor a couple of years and that

(16:27):
so I there was no racing and then that right after that I had
recovered and COVID hit and thenthere was no racing for several
years. So it was it, you know, it was
there's positives that come witheverything.
So that's when I did a lot more on the, you know, the cycling
industry side of things. Yeah, for sure worked a lot

(16:49):
more. So we're gonna get into that.
I have lots of questions around that stuff, but a couple of
things. First, a stupid question I
probably shouldn't ask. How old are you?
I had to think about that. I'm 42.
You're 42, OK And then you, whendid you you quit racing
professionally and I would assume like mid 30s, early 30s?
Yeah. So I think it was let's say 20,

(17:15):
2013, 2012 something I, so maybe10 years ago.
Yeah, for sure. That's a big step.
So you you mentioned something just kind of in passing that if
if it's OK, I'd like to dig intoa little bit.
You said like you're going through a hard time.
What was hard about that time? Oh, I was.
So I was previously married, so when I was racing we were both
athletes, so we were both racingpro and so that that marriage

(17:40):
split up and that was where had to sort out everything.
So it was financially hard, but then also between the moving and
the sorting out life, everythingelse, it put a very sudden stop
to what was so like anything sort of I had planned in the

(18:02):
next six months in my head was no longer, yeah.
Kind of blew up. Yeah, yeah, that's life, right?
That is like, yeah, life definitely can throw your curve
balls for sure. But like you've.
You made it through. So, like, is there, is there
something that kind of helped motivate you through getting
through that hard stuff? And I'm not saying like, oh, you

(18:22):
just completely overcome it. Everything's perfect now, but is
there something that kind of like underlying, helped motivate
you to get through? Not so much of motivation as
more of a freedom to do, to do what was best for me.
Sure. So and I mean that's when I
started into all of the developments which is now sore.

(18:44):
You know that started then, which I never would have
happened. I've still been married.
So there's there's always a silver lining to everything.
And it was obviously something that was in me that kind of
needed to come out. And so yeah, there is, there's
no negatives to anything in life.
I feel like life happens for you, not not to you.

(19:07):
So see, you see the positive andeverything.
Yeah, sure. It's all about how you chew it.
Yeah, that didn't work with it. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, for sure. So I want to go back a little
bit. You're in high school, then
you're going to college. Like you said, you're doing all
those different things. When did you start to realize
that, oh, maybe I can do this triathlon thing?
Is a profession racing wise? So when I started into into

(19:33):
racing, I was already running for UFT at the time and I had
done some triathlons. The previous year I had bought
my first used road bike, you know, with the down tube
shifters and I think I paid 300 bucks for it, something like
that. It was, I don't know, 7 or 8
speed race bikes. And I did.

(19:56):
OK OK enough that I kind of cut the bug for it and I really
liked it. And that's what the summer that
I so that was the summer right before university.
So I'd already planned to go to university to play basketball.
And my last year of high school,I had a really frustrating year

(20:18):
with my basketball team. So there was a lack of
discipline in the team. There was conflicts within the
team and between athletes, whichis really tough and I was the
captain and it was really tough for me and because I had to try

(20:41):
and deal with all of the the athletes and and try and manage
all like let's play together as a team.
It it doesn't always work you know it all it all depends.
So I had a frustrating last year.
We had a lot of talent and it didn't come together.
And at the end of that year or that season, which would have
gone into the start of the summer, I kind of just made the

(21:04):
decision that I want, you know, I want to do something this
summer where it's for me. If I work hard and I do well,
then that's awesome. And if I work hard and I don't
do well, then that's fine too. But I, you know, I put it all
out there and you kind of see where the chips land.

(21:25):
So at the end of the summer, I think I kind of did better than
I expected. It was on that used bike that I
had mentioned and going into university.
So my brother and I both raced together.
We did all the races and we wanted to buy an actual bike.
So that's all we went. We did our bike shopping, We

(21:47):
bought a bike. I borrowed money from my older
brother to do it, 'cause he's been working as a computer
programmer since he was like in high school and he was my bank
account for my all my bike purchases starting out, and I I
obviously repaid them, but so wewe bought a bike, actually, I

(22:11):
think that one was. I think we borrowed it from our
parents and they trusted that we'd pay them back on that one.
So I bought a bike, started training because I really liked
that summer and I liked that I was kind of starting to get
better at it and kind of things were starting to fall in place.
And I was figuring it out. And I had never been really good

(22:33):
at the endurance side of things because all I had done was spend
time in the gym and playing basketball.
So now that I trained specifically for endurance
sports, I was starting to see the benefits of that.
So that for bike I really started loving it and that
following summer we the bike shop that we that Chris and I so

(22:56):
Chris is my younger brother thatI raced with.
We got a bike from a bike shop and they said you know come out
and train with us. I I got dropped within 10
minutes of warm up every single time for weeks and weeks didn't
matter and they're like, so theysaid to Chris had more talent
but I didn't had first and so Dennis was the the shop owner he

(23:19):
said told my dad he goes they have to go to junior nationals
and I was like yeah like that's ever going to happen.
But it did and shockingly I did pretty well.
So I had no swim background. Like I didn't even know the swim
stroke was. I was pretty horrific to start
out and I just got a wet suit. So I started my first few years

(23:42):
in Tracfone without a wet suit, had to kind of learn how to
swim. But I didn't know at that time.
So I I did the swim. I was so far behind coming out
of the water. But the race had like they
thought everybody was cleared out and was on the bike.
And I come out and I remember I got on my bike and I get to the
Mount Dusmount line and the volunteer at the Mount Dusmount

(24:02):
line. She looks at me and she goes,
you've got a lot of catching up to do and I said you aren't
kidding and so but you know it wasn't it wasn't a bad thing.
I wasn't discouraged by that. It's like failures how you get
better and I just rode as hard as I could and it was I think it

(24:23):
was a three loop course and it was a loop where on the end of
every every loop you did a smallout and back back into the
transition area. So you had this like maybe half
a kilometer stretch where you could possibly see anybody and I
think the 1st 2 loops and I saw nobody and assumed I was still

(24:43):
like, I don't know, 10 minutes behind.
And then I think before startingout my last lap, I am going into
that out and back and I see themall coming out and I was like Oh
my God, I'm actually casting them.
So that was super motivating forme.
And I knew that the run was absolutely my strength because I
was running varsity. And so by the end of the bike I

(25:08):
had caught the sort of main group of, well, the the main
race. And then I ran my way through a
lot of them, which I had no idea.
Like I've never done a draft legal race in my life and I had
never really done that caliper of racing.
And I got a spot for Worlds thatsummer and end up going to

(25:31):
Worlds. But I think so to answer your
question, you said what was kindof the the thing that made me
switch is the one of my best friends.
He still is from elementary school or sorry, not elementary
school from in university. He was also racing.
So he's in in the junior men's race.
And so I qualified for Worlds. I got the envelope that did this

(25:54):
and I was like, there's no way Ican go.
And he just looks at me. He says, when's the last time he
qualified for worlds in basketball?
And then I was like, good point.So I think that was pretty much
a perspective changer of yes, I can continue with basketball
because I love it and it really drives me and I love it's a

(26:17):
thinking game. And to me it's like a chess
match, like you do what the defense offers you.
And it is that like instant thinking kind of sport.
And it's fast thinking and I love it.
But again, there's so many considerations like team, coach,
teammates and like how your teamdoes so like even qualifying for

(26:43):
higher levels has to do with teams.
So I'm like it was it was great that I could compete at a higher
level and kind of follow that trajectory and see where it led
me and and it was great because I got to travel around the world
and see a lot of things, which was mostly airports and home
stays or hotels and racecourses.There's a lot of places that I

(27:04):
want to go back to because I've seen them and they're
incredible. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. How did?
So I know for me, for like the first time I got to go overseas,
I was 9 and I went to India. And then just been fortunate
enough to be able to go to a lotof different countries growing
up. And for me, from a very young
age, like, it really start to shift my thinking and like how
you view culture, how you view other people just realizing that

(27:26):
the world is a much bigger place.
How did that affect you as you were, like, maturing into, you
know, you're going into college and then you're trying to figure
out what you're going to do longterm, whether it's triathlon or,
you know, the entrepreneurship stuff.
How did that shape you? I think again I will go back and
that's an easy answer for me, mydad.
My dad has lived in, I don't even know how many countries in

(27:47):
his life, so he was born. He's Dutch.
So my grandparents and my his whole side of the family is
Dutch and he lived all throughout the Netherlands and
he was born in Thailand and he lived in Thailand, Bangkok until
he was, I want to say 6 something like that.
So he went from so but he learned obviously Dutch, then

(28:13):
they moved to Holland. So he lived there until he was
10 or 11, came to Toronto when he was I think 11 and didn't
know a word of English. So I know all the stories and I
know sort of his experience of what it was like to be in a
completely different culture or move.
So he's lived in the States. He's lived in all over Holland,

(28:36):
all like Thailand, like he he just, you know, three schools
per year, sometimes in differentcountries.
And that to me was something where you you have to be
adaptive. Yeah.
And also when I was so in the background is when I was in

(28:58):
grade, I think it's Grade 5. There was a family that moved to
Canada from Japan and his two sisters, one of the grade four,
grade one was in Grade 5 and I was in the grade 4/5 split class
and they came on first day of school.
They didn't speak a word of English.
Actually the only word of English they knew was the word

(29:18):
no. But they knew if, yeah, if
somebody did something that theydidn't like, they would say no.
And that's. And I don't even know how it's
when you're not young, language doesn't really matter.
And they were my best friends that entire year like almost
right from the first day. And I I still keep in contact
with them and my parents keep incontact with their parents.

(29:41):
And it's it's kind of like a different view on.
So I never had that. I never was moved from, you
know, one country to another or where I didn't speak the
language, but when I travelled alot of times it was where I did
not speak the language. Or you're in a smaller town

(30:01):
where nobody speaks a word of English, and it makes it much
easier for me to be OK with it because I know that I'm visiting
and it's, you know, it gives me perspective.
And it also helps me understand sort of the experiences that
I've known from from my dad and from my friends back in
elementary school and appreciatethat more.

(30:23):
Yeah, yeah for sure. Those are such valuable things
and it's really neat to hear that it carries over a
generation cause I've I've you mentioned that you know you had
a kind of a stable upbringing and I think that's really
important for children just fromlike a family rearing
perspective, just kids need that.
But the fact that you were able to kind of glean quite a bit
from your dad's experiences and have that effect just, I guess,

(30:45):
your world view or the way that you view things is really
interesting. I've never heard that before.
So I think that's really cool. Oh.
Thanks. Yeah.
So I'm curious though, before I kind of go on.
Your dad, you said he moved a lot around a lot and he lived in
Thailand or was born in Thailanddid?
You. Yeah.
He was born in Thailand. Was was he like, part of a

(31:05):
military family or? No, my grandfather was.
He was President of Phillips Electronics at the time.
So he I guess at that time in that era that was when I guess
they were sort of developing thelike lighting and things like
that in different countries. So they so he was the one that

(31:26):
kind of went with family to to the different countries to to
sort of start it up there. Yeah, Phillips Electronics, that
is a massive company. What is when did Phillips start?
Is that like World War 2? You know what?
This is something that I should know, and I do not.

(31:48):
It's like I have, I have photos and where I don't have photos,
they're at my parents' place. But like with my my Oprah, my
grandfather with like the King of Thailand and like the SO he's
like very well travelled and dida lot.
But I think it a lot was lost and it was a different time like

(32:08):
things were different then. And I think Phillips was sort of
more just starting off. But it was also a company that
really helped sort of not instigate but like develop a lot
or or drive a lot of of change in electronics in in all the
countries. Yeah, that's wild.
So it makes sense that. I mean, maybe there was some

(32:29):
influence on your brother for why he did software engineering
and stuff like that, 'cause likethere's definitely overlap in
that world. But by the way, I just googled
it. Philips Electronics was founded
in 1891 in Eindhoven, Netherlands.
Yeah, there he goes. So Eindhoven.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So that's. I think Eindhoven is.
I think that's one of the placesthat my dad I'm like, is it very
familiar? I'm like, I I'm sure that's one

(32:51):
of the places he's lived. Yeah, Yeah.
Yeah, that's super cool, man. Well, you need to write a book.
You need to interview your father and grandfather and
anyone else who's still alive around that area 'cause, I mean,
you're talking World War One, World War 2, moving, you know,
the Cold War and everything else.
Cause a lot of those companies far off in a better historical,
I don't know, reference than thehistory books we have in school.

(33:13):
Because, yeah, just. What's going on?
Interesting. Yeah, definitely.
So going back to you college, you're doing the triathlon thing
and then you get it you, I guessat that time start pursuing your
degree in kinesiology, is that correct?
Yeah, yeah, yes. So I did that and then I did.

(33:34):
So first year was basketball andcross country and then I trained
with the track team, but they wouldn't let me do both and then
after that I did cross country and track and field.
So all the way through. So that was UPA four year
program. OK.
And then you moved on, you're racing professionally, I would
assume for a few years, I don't know how or at least more than a

(33:56):
few, probably 10 years. Is that about right?
Yeah, yeah, At least 10 years. OK, So what was your and during
that professional career? Everything else aside, just
racing trathlon, what is your and your heart the greatest
achievement that you you kind ofgot to.
It doesn't have to be a win. It can be like a certain thing
you ever came or whatever. Oh, there's so this is probably

(34:22):
too many stories though, becausesome of them are just like
certain instances. So sometimes they're in like
really small races. But it was mindset driven and
some of them were like more performance things that I did or
didn't think that would happen. Or just an experience of like,
you know, those races where you feel like.

(34:43):
And what I would describe to which I don't know if it'll make
sense to a lot of people, but when you're really in really
good race shape and you're having the race of your life,
you're kind of racing and you'reexcited and it doesn't matter
how hard you push, you keep pushing harder.
And the way I would describe it is like you can't hurt yourself.

(35:03):
You keep pushing, you'll break down, but it doesn't matter
because your body will just keepgoing and so you kind of go into
autopilot. So those so race experiences
where you kind of go into that flow state, those are pretty
magical. And so the way you'll see like
really awesome performances and I've had a few of those.

(35:25):
It wasn't always in all three disciplines.
Often times it was just on the bike, sometimes on the run or
the bike and the run. And yeah it's it's it really
depends. But some of like I, one that
sticks up to me was a small raceand that was a mindset one and I
think it was like a glove lake in in Ontario.

(35:49):
So a big race for Ontario but it's sort of a small race for
pro, like there would have been a very tiny prize purse at the
time and that was a race where Ithink I got off the bike so I
was competing against. I knew I knew the the other the
other woman that was racing pro there and she was like a

(36:10):
collegiate swimmer and I was notI was knew swimming and I was
pretty far out of the water. I caught up on the bike but I
think I started the run and it was only maybe a 7 1/2 K run and
I think I got the split that I was like 2 1/2 or 3 minutes down
and I was like and I knew she ran cross country at her

(36:32):
university. So I was like like that's it's
too much. So I like, I just made a
decision in my head and I don't even know why.
And I just said I'm going to lose by 10 seconds instead of 3
minutes. And it wasn't about whether I
won or lost, it was I wasn't going to lose by this much.

(36:56):
I was still going to come in second, but I was going to lose
by 10 seconds instead of 3 minutes.
And then I actually ended up winning noise and but I think
that's only because I sort of changed my mindset so so things
like that really help and the body follows the mind always.
So what you tell yourself is really important to your

(37:19):
internal dialogue while you're racing and keeping it positive
is really important. And then there are other races
that I had where I just really got into sort of a flow.
And especially on the bike because the bike is the longest
where. So in 1/2 ironed in, let's say
you're on the bike for two plus hours.

(37:39):
So for two plus hours to be in that state, like that's pretty
awesome. And you you pass other riders at
you know a pretty serious rate where you're going a lot faster
than they are. And when you know that that's
happening, that's also very motivating.
Fuel to the fire. Yeah, yeah.

(38:00):
So every single one that you pick off, it's just like it.
It's like you said, it adds fuelto the fire and it hope so.
When you have those race days where that kind of happens, you
go with it. And sometimes you go so hard on
the bike that you blow up sometime on the run.
And that's OK too, because you have to put it all out there to

(38:20):
see what you're made of or what you're capable of is not so not
what you're made of, but so you'll never know what you're
capable of. That's sort of my opinion.
You find out, and you only find out by actually pushing.
So pushing it might end disastrously, but you know you
have to. It's like that whole analogy of

(38:41):
having faith in yourself and in your training.
It's like, you know there's a Cliff.
You have to jump off it. You can either like sort of half
fall off it or like take a running Sprint into it and just
go, you know it's and you have to have faith that you're going
to sort it out on the way and maybe it ends well, maybe it
doesn't, but that's what racing is and that's what always

(39:03):
inspired me. It's like you try things and
even when you fail. So a fail would be what other
people so externally view as failing of oh your placing was
this right. Let's say it was not what I
possibly think I should have placed.
But if I went too hard or did something else and really put it

(39:24):
on the line because I thought that it might have paid off,
There's no failure that comes from that.
Because physiologically I know that once I rest and like let my
body sort of sort itself out andrebuild, I'm gonna now build to
a point way above baseline the baseline fitness that I was at
prior to the race. So there's there's no bad that

(39:46):
comes out of it. Yeah.
That's really interesting. I I would, I was going to ask a
question I guess because a lot of people talk about this whole
mindset matters and I've had races myself where I decided
before I even started it was going to be a bad race and what
do you know? It was a horrible race and I got
sick and everything starts hurting worse and it's you know,
but then I've done other races where it is a really good

(40:06):
mindset but sometimes, you know,I can lead up into a race a
week. Or more.
And I'm like, really thinking about it mentally.
Like, OK, like, why am I doing this?
Because it's, it's a joy, it's agift.
And you know you're doing that. But then when I get to the race,
it's not always that easy to just keep that mindset.
So is there anything that you did within triathlon, outside of
triathlon to like, maintain thatkind of a mindset?

(40:29):
Like whenever you notice yourself start to slip and be
less full of gratitude, or however it is that you view it,
is there something you do to getback to that place?
Yeah, I always go and based on past experiences, so I've had a
lot of races where I think I wasset up to scale from the start.
So one example is I did Iron ManCanada and I can't remember what

(40:49):
year, maybe like 2006, somethinglike that.
And I got there early because I wanted to train on the course.
So I think 3 weeks early and I had a homestay, but the homestay
family was in like somewhere youknow building houses for.
It's a charity organization somewhere in the world and it

(41:13):
kind of just trusts to their to use their house and to stay
there for the race week and didn't have a car with 22K up
the mountain biking up and down to pick up your race kit and all
that stuff. So that was a bit of a pain but
back to the three weeks before. So we were there three weeks

(41:33):
before the race and suddenly, like AI think it was a friendly
before. So one week before the race I
woke up in the middle of the night and I thought, I this is
probably the most sick I've everbeen in my entire life.
I could not even make it to the bathroom without thinking I was
going to pass out. And I had such bad, I don't know

(41:55):
what it was, food poisoning? I had no idea.
But I was very sick. Like, I I had to crawl back to
bed after I had thrown up because I didn't know how to do
it without passing out. And that whole week they kind of
continued. And then at one point, I think
it was like 3 days before the race, I was like, you know what?

(42:18):
I'm sick, so I'm going to have abath.
So I went and I turned on the tap, put the plug in, fed the
bath, went to get all my stuff ready.
I come back in 5 minutes later, I look at the bathtub and it was
like the color of beer. And I'm thinking, Oh my God, so

(42:38):
I did AI did a quick Google search, which is not quick
because I was packing like almost the dial up days and
apparently I think a summer Summerhill, Summerland,
Summerland, which is the the sort of town up the up the hill.
Summerland was on the boil. Water advisory.

(42:59):
Water wasn't good, but nobody told us so.
I had been occasionally filling my water bottles for all my long
rides with that water, washing all the dishes, brushing my
teeth, drinking them for for weeks.
So I just And while I was sick, I was still like exposing myself

(43:22):
to it soon as I saw this. Oh no, but I had.
I had depleted my system so muchby racing.
I think I had my first solid meal the the night before or at
best the Friday like the 36 hours before.
And I got into the the race and I was still positive.

(43:43):
I was like, you know, this couldbe great.
So this is a long story to answer your question by the way,
but no. It's good take.
Your time. So I'm doing the race and I
cramped up severely and several times in the swim.
So my hamstring and my calf which happens a lot in the swim
but I was so depleted in electrolytes and fine, got

(44:04):
through the swim, got onto the bike and I didn't feel fantastic
but I pushed hard. I I raced as as I had planned
and I remember like maybe 70 KMIdidn't feel super great.
But I kind of told myself like II look back for the answer to
the question is I look back at past experiences and a lot of

(44:26):
them, a lot of my best training rides of all times where I had
absolutely no idea that that wasgoing to be how the ride ended
up. They started out as horribly as
possible where I thought of quitting every second.
So I kind of used that and I waslike, this is just like that.

(44:48):
You know where I'm like it took Me 2 1/2 hours before I started
feeling good. And then all of a sudden my body
woke up and I just kind of kept telling myself that that that
that'll happen. So any time something goes badly
I'll immediately connect it to some time where things didn't
start out so so positively or looking like they were gonna end

(45:10):
well and and they did and I'd belike maybe this is one of those
magical days and and it's and again it's like the body follows
the mind and when you stay positive or you connect it to a
positive experience things happen.
So it wasn't the best phrase I Istill think I did OK considering

(45:36):
but yeah Oh well it was it was OK until about I didn't even
know how I was going to get pastnine K in the bike.
I have. I I had lots of cloud function
with I think 10K to go in the bike.
I just my muscles wouldn't contract anymore and I remember
my experiences. I think it's my first Iron Man

(45:58):
too and I didn't know what the change tent would be like and I
had visions in my mind. It's like maybe when I get there
there's going to be like an all ET buffet like a like an age
station tent in there. I'm like, maybe I'm going to sit
down on a chair because I know there are chairs in there, I've
been told and I'm going to have some food, the little do you
know, like you get through the like, not just outline.

(46:20):
So I just found the bike. Somebody takes your bike,
somebody like pushes you through.
Then they grab your your bag foryou, they give it to you, they
run you, they start putting on your shoes for you.
And I'm just like, no, no, I'm just, I'm like, I'm OK.
Let me chill for. A second please.

(46:41):
I'm dying and but they were so good and Iron Maid Canada was
one of those races where I thinkthe status like for everyone.
Racer, you have 3 volunteers. So the volunteers are so
absolutely incredible that I wasin and out of the change tent
before I even knew what happenedand I had intended to maybe take

(47:01):
a break, maybe not start the run, maybe see how it goes.
I mean I know I would have finished and then I got out onto
the run and the streets are lined with people.
For the first I knew 6 and a 6.6and a 6.4 kilometers something
like that. And then it goes into this place
where spectator aren't allowed because it's a one way St. for
emergency access that's along the lake and and it's cliffside

(47:24):
on the other side of the road. So all I was trying to do was
get to that point so I could possibly walk because I didn't
even know how to run. I was like half hobbling, my
quads were seized, everything was not working and anyways that
was I think I had a 7 hour marathon.

(47:45):
I think I ended in like 13 hours.
So it's like, I heard it was, itwas a drastic like fall off a
Cliff. And I was super happy to have
found like this is like again the magic of Iron Man.
And to have it on my my first experience was great is you find
people who will stop and walk with you and they will motivate

(48:08):
you and they'll be like let's goafter the stage station were
like speed walking over the jog for like 200 meters and you just
followed their lead and they, like the other competitors got
me to the finish line. So that wasn't me.
The marathon was pretty, pretty unideal, but it was still an

(48:31):
experience. For sure, that's a good
experience. Did you cry at the finish line?
No, I think I was happy to finish.
I think I was just like, Oh my God, yeah, so it wasn't.
I mean, it wasn't at all what I was expecting.
And I mean, I knew why. At least there was reason.

(48:51):
I was hoping for better. And I was hoping that my body
had sort of regained its composure before the race
starts, you know, from being sick.
But it hadn't. So it just makes for a long day
when you do a race that long. Yeah, for sure.
And when you're sick. Yeah.
That's crazy, but you got a lot of life of really good life

(49:14):
lessons. That sounds like that I'm sure
have carried you through not only that career for triathlon
but also the business side whichI want to dive into.
So I ran the OR I read. I read that you ran or slash run
a business building custom bike equipment, mostly special parts
for Paralympians. You do really good paint jobs
for, I assume, bikes and other things.

(49:37):
How did you get your start starting to like making these
different products? Because what I'm observing is
like your family. You guys like tinkering with
your hands, your high energy, very curious.
There's the engineering background.
So how does all that kind of wrap into what you started doing
with your hands and creating things that eventually led to
the businesses that I really want to ask about?
Yeah. Yeah, so, so all of us have to

(49:59):
travel and repair. So my introduction to that.
So it's it's also a weird coincidence and also this goes
back to something I'll blame or thank my dad for is I've been
working with composites just oddly kind of or been
experiencing composites since I was born.
My dad was a high level sailor and that was one of the

(50:20):
industries at the time where like in the 70s where composites
of carbon fiber, fiberglass, everything was carbon fiber and
fiberglass. In the Cycling World nothing was
like absolutely nothing was and so my dad knew a lot about you
know competence so and his application or his background in

(50:42):
in knowing how to use them came from his just as I had mentioned
before is his RC radio controlled hobby.
So planes and boats and and the like.
So he he builds and repairs planes for for like RC

(51:06):
enthusiasts. He flies he flies several times
a week kind of always has it's ait's a real passion of his and
he's always used fiberglass and or carbon fiber as reinforcement
on his wings and like when he's when he's building his planes.

(51:28):
So any part that needed reinforcements extra
strengthening so like where the where the wings meet the
fuselage he'd use or the the thelead, the lead edge of the
wings. So those would be reinforced
with fiberglass. And when I got into racing I was

(51:53):
interested in things going to carbon fiber and I don't think
things have really gotten to carbon yet.
I think that at the time there might have been introduction to
some of the rear to seat stays. Like I think Columbus came out
with some of the first seat stays that were all carbon
fiber. They were fabricated.
You just kind of insert them into the aluminum or steel lugs.

(52:16):
So steel fuel or aluminum frame and so that OK, there's there's
carbon obviously in cycling it'slighter, it serves a purpose
there's more life to it. So titanium, titanium at the
time would be more lively and but it was lighter, more

(52:36):
durable, it had energy give backto it so it had more snap and
positive benefits just from the material alone than aluminum and
steel. So carbon to me was like
something a little bit higher. So I was racing and I wanted to
start building parts on my own bike, just because that's kind

(52:59):
of how I think and I started doing that.
And so the first place we went to, my dad drove me to because I
didn't have my driver's license at the time because we down in
Toronto, it's like expensive. So I didn't own the car or park
it anywhere. So we went to at at the time.
There's a place called Smith Craft Fiberglass and it's it's

(53:23):
not in business anymore, but I went there because I knew that
they sold carbon fiber. I left it up.
So I went there and I asked the guys and it's like $80.00 a yard
or something horrendous. There's no way I can afford any
of this. So I was like, do you have any
scraps or cut offs or anything? And I don't know whether they

(53:45):
they just felt sorry for me or if they actually found the humor
in it, but they're they have allthe cut offs of all of their
stuff and they kind of just scooped them up at the end of
the day and put them into a garbage bag and throw it away.
So they gave me this whole garbage bag of scraps of carbon
fiber, like, and some of them were, you know, fairly sizable,
Not sizable enough for somebody who would buy carbon by the yard

(54:09):
off of a bolt. But for my use, it's like I
started off making things like bottle cages and saddles.
So I made my own saddles and small parts and I think she gave
me a whole bag of it for like 5 bucks.
And then I bought the resin fromthem and some mold material.
And then I I started like reallydelving into researching how to

(54:31):
do sort of all the engineering goes behind it.
And that was like, I don't know like 2000, 2001, like that was a
long time ago. But I've had, I've been, I've
been using or working with composites for more than half my
life now and through through it all and I've been working in the

(54:54):
also cycling industry for almostthe same amount of time.
So at a university I worked for a bike shop that also had so
oracious boutique but also Aquila cycles.
So I had, I was the person doingall of these.
I saw all of the raw frames thatcame in.

(55:15):
So the raw designs where we would then change, change the
tooling, change various parts onit.
So I got to know a lot about thedesign, engineering that goes
into bike frame development. And so all of this, all of this
stuff kind of helped and I kept going with it and I've been

(55:37):
repairing frames, so so bike frames, crash bike frames.
I've also done other odd things,some skis, some.
Now you get bikes like aestheticpanels on bikes and sorry, not
bikes on cars like that are carbon fiber now, and repairing
some of those. Not my preference.
They're very large and it's moreaesthetic than functional.

(55:59):
So I've like the whole front of my my apartment here is full of
wheels and frames that are waiting to be repaired and
there's never any shortage. Like you're still going up.
Soon as I hang up this call, I have like 3 that I have to get
on. So it's I do instill a number of

(56:21):
that every week. So I think I've cut open every
brand and model of frame like I've done hundreds if not
thousands of of frames over the years and I repair them.
And then again I mentioned that I had a background in visual
arts. So that's where this sort of
finishing and paints it comes innot handy because now it's the

(56:43):
pain in my ass because because everything right now in cycling
is going to premium paint jobs, color shift and specific pearls
and like all of these pigments that can can't be matched.
So when you pay for a premium frame with a premium paint job
and you crack it and I get it infor a repair, I'm like the

(57:07):
repair is the easy part. The hard part is now making it
look like it was never damaged in the 1st place.
Yeah, so what's my goal? The manufacturer and.
You're like hey give. Me, No.
So every manufacturer, and I don't blame them at all.
They will not give any information.
They will state it's proprietarypaint color.
They do not supply any samples, not even to dealers.

(57:30):
And it's because they can't guarantee and it's too much and
they can't shelf life any of this stuff.
So paints, they don't last. So if they were to stock them,
chances are they'd lose like shelf life would run out before
they would get them to a customer that needed it.
Yeah, so, so all of it is hand mixed.

(57:51):
I hand mixed all the paints, so anytime I get a like a color
shift that's all you have to figure out.
The base coats. So they're usually like a three
color process. So it's a base coat and a mid
coat and and then the top coat or the color shift and then the
degree of gloss or like the candy coats, another hard one to
match. But so I've been doing that for

(58:12):
a while, a very long while. The paint now, because the way
the industry's going, it's paintpaint jobs are the the sort of
like flash that people pay for. Yeah, and everything's carbon
now and it doesn't take much with these.
The high performance frames is lighter, is better.

(58:33):
So they're they're very well engineered, which is incredible
for performance, which is what gets the weight down super low.
But the downside is they only have reinforcement towards the
stresses that a bike receives while it is being written.
So they're very unfortunately weak points in the middle of

(58:55):
tubes. The middle of the top tubes, the
middle of the seat stay. Those are some of the weakest,
so all you need is, and all the stories I get are some a writer
that'll say I just leaned it against the wall and a gust of
wind hit it and it hit the corner of like a brick, you know
or something, and it cracked because it wasn't designed to

(59:17):
it. Carbon fiber is 9 times stiffer
than steel in the direction thatyou want it to be stiff, but in
a perpendicular manner. If it's impacted
perpendicularly, it is highly brittle and it'll crack.
And once it cracks, if you continue to ride it, the crack
spreads and it's kind of spidersand then it becomes completely

(59:38):
unridable and unsafe. So you have to repair it or you
have to replace it. Yeah.
Can I ask you a very specific technical question?
So I I worked in the textile industry for a little while.
So I understand like the bolts and yardage and stuff like what
I dealt with in a lot of nylons carbon fiber when it comes on a
on a bolt and you get that. What is it about the the resin
that is there a reaction that happens that once you add the

(01:00:00):
resin that it gives it the the tightness and the stiffness like
what's actually happening in in that process?
So the resin is what the carbon is impregnated with.
So what you want to do is infuseor saturated so it carbon is it
is like just like a fabric. So I mean I can give, I can show

(01:00:21):
you a piece where on video here during the call but it is just
fabric and each each strand is made-up of depending on if it's
a 1K or 3K whatever it is that'show many thousands of strands of
carbon it is in that single bundle that is incorporated into
the weave. So it's very soft and highly

(01:00:42):
pliable and it has no functionalstrength especially when it
comes to if that was a bike right.
It's like a fabric it it's really just like a sort of more
stiff fabric. It only becomes strong once
you're impregnated with a resin.So there's a whole bunch of

(01:01:02):
different grades of resins. They're not all created equally
from are made to withstand heat or friction forces better.
So things like wheels that are designed for windbreak, those
will use different resins that have a higher tolerance for heat
or heat dissipation. So when you apply enough heat to

(01:01:24):
carbon, the layers will actuallysplit and separate, so you'll
have catastrophic, catastrophic failure of of the product.
If you blast enough heat at it, it'll fold, it'll buckle, it'll
do things. So depending on the the intended
purpose of the product that you're making, whether it's

(01:01:47):
wheels or whether it's frames, you use a different resin And
with resin, so you need the carbon, you need the resin, you
need a pressure and you need to see those are the four
components that are absolutely required.
If it only has 3D, it won't work, so it'll be again brittle,
it'll snap. So if you have the need the the
weave, the correct layup, so layers upon layers where the

(01:02:10):
each layer is sort of direct sort of changing direction of
overlay which gives it more strength to withstand the forces
that are applied at that particular point.
Like a bottom bracket in a bike has more twist forces than other

(01:02:33):
parts of the bike. Same thing with a head tube and
dropouts like rear drive. So the change stays are really
important. The bottom bracket, the down
tube, the head tube, that's pretty much what makes up the
strength component of a of a bike frame.
And the resin is important. So you have to fully saturate
the carbon fiber. Then what you have to do is add

(01:02:54):
pressure. So you have to weep out every
bit of resin that is not completely contained within or
set like. So like a sponge it will hold
what it can hold and anything else is excess.
So if you have any excess resin that isn't sort of weeped out
through pressure what happens isyou get pooling of resin within

(01:03:17):
the matrix of the carbon and that becomes a weak point.
So when you do any carbon repairor when you make frames or
anything is you need to have a super even pressure or you have
to know how to apply your pressure or how to do your
layout so or even what we do. So you have different
thicknesses different weaves, sotwill or a like a a cross

(01:03:39):
carbon. You have unidirectional, you
have unidirectional weave as well and each each repair is all
they do is different all these and different, a different
carbon. But then heat is the other
thing. So when you heat resin it
liquefies, and when it liquefies, that's what's really

(01:04:03):
important is when you combine that with the pressure, it leaks
out every single bit of extra resin so that the carbon is the
thing that is left. So the saturated carbon, and now
the carbon can be as strong as it as it can be.
Fascinating stuff. Thank you so much for sharing
that. So I'm curious now to hear how.

(01:04:24):
Well, I guess one quick question.
You're still doing this repair business while the other
ventures you see that funny little thumbs up thing, I don't
know why it does that. Anyway, the business you have
going right now for the repair stuff, you're still doing that
while also doing a company. I'm about to ask about our
company's Elavo and sore. Is that how you say it?

(01:04:45):
Yeah, Allevo insort. Allevo, OK.
Allevo insort. So how does that all tie in?
Obviously, there's a lot of experience here that translates
and I know that's a long period of time that we're about to
cover. But walk me through a little bit
of the these two companies. What are they?
How did they start? Yeah.
OK. So the reason I'm still doing
some first part of the question,the reason I'm still doing the

(01:05:07):
repairs is COVID, the wonderful COVID, which is kind of like you
know, busting in disguise. So always the silver lining.
There's a lot of R&D that came out of it, but both companies
were supposed to launch like April first, which is COVID hit
like Canada, middle of March. That's when everything kind of

(01:05:28):
shut down. So we were sort of set to
commercially launch because we could predict freight costs and
sort of product production timelines and costs and
everything else. We had websites ready,
everything was good to go. COVID hit, everything stopped,

(01:05:50):
manufacturer stopped completely and during COVID you know a good
problem to have and still a problem is one of the biggest
food industries for cycling. So people were home and they
were isolated and had to don't talk to other people, don't see
other people. Well, they're like oh I want to
get outside. I want to buy a bike so I can go

(01:06:11):
ride. So bikes sold out and all bikes
bike parts were on back order backlog for years.
So this is it's a weird stat that we were told I think in the
first year of COVID so like backin 2020 is I remember DT Swiss.
They predicted that the shortages would be affect or

(01:06:35):
delivery would be affected until2024 which is still in the
future. And I remember seeing at the
time I'm like that can't possibly be right like that,
there's no way and I mean we know where we are right now and
it is and it's why you don't seea lot of wheels that are now
built up with DP Swift. They used to own the industry
like they used to be the hub on every high end wheel and that's

(01:07:00):
what happened. So unfortunately like the way
the cycling industry works and the timing of COVID is all the
the the OEM companies in the bike shops do their their
bookings for the following calendar year in usually October
for delivery in any of February to April and that's the timing.

(01:07:24):
So the delivery timing, So they had all the bookings and COVID
hit, and COVID hit Asia first, which is where a lot of this is
manufactured. So no capacity to deliver on
previous year's orders. Plus now all of the current
stuff that were in bike shops inNorth America and probably
worldwide were sold out because everybody started buying bikes

(01:07:47):
and their bikes then needed repairs which caused further
shortages of everything else. And now here we are, you know,
3-4 years later, three years later and we're things are
definitely getting back on track.
But it's it's a slow recovery, Yeah, so that was now I've lost
track of what your original question was.

(01:08:07):
So that was nice. That was a good question.
Why are you still doing that? It sounds like there's no demand
for your. Services, Yeah.
So there we go. So because of the stall in that
we're supposed to launch and I knew that there was going to be
a long lag and so I had to continue working.
So two reasons for it is one, because I needed income and I'm

(01:08:28):
self-employed and I've had an R&D business that has like I've
just kind of lived trying to make it worth believing that it
would work and believing that we're getting ready to launch to
then having to sort of find a way to make some money to live.
So the repair business was the one thing during COVID where now

(01:08:50):
all bike shops were getting cracked frames in cause
customers would come in and say it's cracked.
What do I do? They can't get a new one.
They can't. They're like there's no option
to replace it. So repair was the big thing.
And I think I've never done so many repairs in my life and I've
like to the point where I go to bed at night and I'd wake up
because my hands were so swollenand painful and it's such hard

(01:09:11):
work. But I did like too many hours a
day of just all bike frames and fields and anything carbon just
repairing the painting and that.So that was for money, just so I
could kind of get by and keep doing the label in the store
development. And that has through COVID still

(01:09:38):
continued And again like I said it was kind of the silver lining
it's it's forced us to kind of pre launch develop and develop
and develop and develop. So I know you asked me this
before and you said don't answerthe questions you sent me a text
message said are they two or thesame company, Those are the two

(01:09:59):
different ones. So a label is carbon fiber high
performance race field. So what we're trying to do is
create do best performing race feel possible.
It was intended to or it was developed for in particular the
Brazil and that race market. So my partner for that is for

(01:10:24):
Brian who who he so he's Brazilian and he dealt
particularly in importing into Brazil.
So it was prior, it was in the garment industry, so that was
his background. But he knows all of the
importing, the laws and the insurance and the outs and
what's loud. So Brazil has some of the most

(01:10:45):
strict importing laws and highest taxes worldwide.
And because of that reason they have like no winter.
There's a huge triathlon for biking and mountain biking
population that goes 12 months of the year, and no mainstream
bike or wheel brand exports to Brazil.

(01:11:09):
Yeah, so and that's because because of the importing laws
that the Brazil government imposes.
So he saw an opportunity, Brian saw an opportunity there.
He didn't. He was getting into triathlon
and racing and he didn't know anything about the product.
So he knew I did and he he I wascoaching.

(01:11:31):
I started out coaching at the time.
So he was doing some some triathlon and you know, he kept
saying he goes, you know, there's a really good
opportunity here we should do this.
And I always just thought I'm like well you know, I'm like I
don't think he really was hard. Like you really need to want to
get into a business to do it. I'm like that's why so many
businesses fail. I'm like it is 1020 times harder

(01:11:54):
and more involved than you ever expected in your wildest dreams.
That's how people get up. But yeah, he's like one of those
people in life that absolutely shocked me and in the best way,
like he's probably the one of the hardest working people I've
ever come across in life. I still don't don't know how he
does it but he I was like OK sure let's do it and I will

(01:12:18):
design the product and if you'lldo the you know that if if if
you want to do this and he's actually like you know outshone
me and done all the work and yeah so I had an incredible
partner there and what we did with that company is you.

(01:12:40):
So it was developed. We tested, so round by round
design The product Gez deliveredseveral different test wheels of
different depths. I'd test them, he'd test them.
So I have feel like I've lived on a bike for most of my life,
So I know bike on a wheels. I know feel and experience and

(01:13:00):
all that. So I'd test them, I know my
opinion, he'd test them. So he would be more of an age
group athlete. So his experience, feedback and
then we'd send it to pro athletes.
So we sponsor a whole lot of proathletes and then they would
ride the wheels for however longand we'd tell them go break
them, go beat them up, torture test them, let us know what you

(01:13:23):
think, let us know how they can be made better, let us know the
good, the bad, the ugly, everything.
And we went through round by round like several per year,
which is our advantage because we hadn't launched when you
launched. You have to create a product.
You have to create, you know, a few number and here's our this

(01:13:43):
is our offering for the year. Here's our catalogue and then
you have to start producing it and sell it so your R&D stops.
So during COVID we were able to use all the pro athletes and go
through several rounds, which would probably only happen with
other companies want maybe one per year, like one round of

(01:14:03):
development and testing and all of that.
So we went through several. We just kept going and kept
going and we have some wheels that have an incredible amount
of miles and are still like thatpro cyclists for riding and
they're like they're awesome, can't can't be and they're more

(01:14:25):
sick. We had a lot of athletes but
gave up their wheels that were some of the the the best in the
industry so other name brands and they said no, I want to ride
this wheel because it I raced better on it.
It's it's it's better performing.
So that feedback was good. But we have a whole handful of
athletes that have helped us through our development and

(01:14:47):
we've gone through years right now.
Hopefully we're going to launch this year, but we've gone
through years of several times ayear improving the product,
improving it, improving it, getting feedback and then
redeveloping. So it's gotten the product I
think to the best place we can get it right now and it's
launching when. Sorry.

(01:15:09):
To be determined, but hopefully for this race season.
OK, 2024. Yeah.
I mean you can you can buy them right now, but it's sort of like
on you'd have to sort of messageus and order them and so that it
wouldn't be not commercially launched or OEM sales and things
like that. So hopefully this spring.

(01:15:29):
And then the second one is sore.So sore is the company.
So Thor was named branded Once I've partnered with Phil the
Light. So who was with Sorbello?
And so was my idea that I had back when I was racing.
So always while I was racing, I was always told you can't write

(01:15:51):
a disk, don't write a disk, don't write deep dish, don't
ride. There was always this limitation
between Arrow and safety and weight and performance.
So everything depended on, you know, to get your best
performance. Never meant that you were riding

(01:16:13):
the quote UN quote fastest wheelthat tested fastest in the wind
tunnel that was the most aerodynamic.
The one that could save you X number of minutes in a 40K time
trial that never accraded to that number of claimed minutes
to any athlete. The ones that it that it worked
for were like the the protein tour.

(01:16:34):
So Tour de France guys they ride, they have the power, they
have the technical skills and also the weights.
They're mostly men. So it's it's also body weights.
It's a big thing. So if you have a strong cross
wind gust that is a highly yeah,it's a highly unstabilized force
and that and that creates the problem where the rider is now

(01:17:00):
putting all their energy and effort into re stabilizing or
centering the bike or not blowing off the road, so staying
on the road rather than off. But they they're no longer
racing so the energy they put out is no longer being
translating and translated into forward motion.
It's it's you're still riding but you're trying to your

(01:17:24):
survival. Yeah it's survival.
There's some races that I've I've done where I I just thought
I just don't want to end up in aditch because I just kept being
blown that way and and as you get more arrow you get deeper
section profile rims as well as as bike frames and that's just a
bigger sort of wind sail for thewind to hit when it comes at you

(01:17:46):
from the side and it's just going to throw you straight to
the side so it hits a hard you know immovable or non flexible
surface and that whole object which is bike plus rider is
going to move in the direction of the force of wind So it's and

(01:18:10):
then so that's just the one component is is stability so
when you have cross wings it's it's it's scary it's unstable
it's not necessarily fast for all riders.
The other thing is if it's a hilly course or even if it's a
flat course it's it's the weightSo the the the more arrow the

(01:18:32):
rim or or the bike gets the heavier it becomes So the the
rims become. Yeah it's deeper section so and
wheels as you know those it's rotational force so but those
are the things that you have to continually re accelerate every
time you turn a corner or go around a pylon you know or stop

(01:18:53):
or hit a hill. You have to carry it up a hill
but you also have to reaccelerate it through corners
and and that's that's tough because that takes like you know
the phrases you only have so many matches to burn in a race.
Every time you have to do that it takes a little bit out of you
and that's going to affect your run if not your bike and your

(01:19:14):
run. So I always thought I'm like why
would you produce something thatis quote UN quote the fastest
wheel the fastest frame. But you would warn some riders
to not use it. Like doesn't make any sense.
Why would you not try to try to solve the problem of making it
as light as possible, as stable as possible, and as arrow as

(01:19:36):
possible? And, like, there's got to be a
way to do that. So that ruins my sort of, yeah,
I'm like, there has to be, like there's a problem, there's only
not a solution because nobody's tried to solve all three and I
did because I I guess it bothered me enough.
Like I did. I didn't.
I didn't know why. Why would you warn me if this is

(01:19:59):
faster, why shouldn't I erase iton it?
And I mean, I knew why I shouldn't have, but so I started
developing and sort of tinkeringwith my own equipment.
What is the four wheel? So that is a wheel that is as
light as possible. So it is the lightest disc
wheel. So it's disc wheel and deep

(01:20:20):
dish. So it's the lightest disc wheel
and the lightest deep dish. It is the most stable and it is
the fastest. So we've done so.
Phil and I have gone into the wind tunnel a bunch of times
during COVID, too many times because I've had a little test
wheels. And so we've we've sort of
perfected what we think is the ideal sidewall flexibility and

(01:20:47):
material. There are a few options now that
we use but but the idea is you create a wheel where the the job
of the sidewall is to absorb anddissipate any crossing forces.
Yeah, second to that is by allowing that so it morphs so it

(01:21:12):
morphs and is reactive to the wind.
And by doing that reactive morphing it also throws force in
a different direction so it creates lifts.
So just like airfoils do or wingsails on like America's cut
boats that like fly. So what I'm trying to do is

(01:21:33):
create forward thrust through crosswinds.
So forward thrust is something that is also a stabilizing
motion. Anything going forward pulls you
into stability. Anything coming from the side
and hitting something that is non moving or non adaptive is

(01:21:54):
going to throw you off. So you're going to be thrown
sort of to the direction that the wind is pushing you.
So the second thing is, if the job of the side walls is to be
adaptive, morphing and flexible,you can also design them to be a

(01:22:15):
material that is super lightweight.
So flexible materials are by nature lightweight.
So right now disc wheels are carbon fiber on the side.
So that's lightweight, but not super lightweight.
Film is lightweight. Anything that is not a solid
mask is lightweight so it allowsus to drop the weight and then

(01:22:37):
dirtiary to that is you can now design the interior of the wheel
to be as light as possible and have the highest strength as
possible. So you want it to be super stiff
and super light. So now the interior design of

(01:22:58):
the wheel can be any anything you want.
It doesn't have to be arrow spokes, doesn't have to be like
what is traditional because you know that you're gonna cover it
in something that's adaptive andsuper lightweight.
So now it allows you to build the rim to then accommodate all
of these things. Your rim can be super shallow

(01:23:20):
and and then it the end product is just like light as can be.
So right now we have a disc wheel.
They built up a few I think about 670g disc wheel that I
built this year. So the one that building.
Sorry, what did 690 grams compare that to?

(01:23:43):
Like let's just say the head jetdisk right now or yeah.
So, yeah, so, so yeah, it's a 670 on the scale compared to the
head jet. So most of them right now are
about 1100. So the the zip came out with
like what they called like the the sub or the 9999 or whatever
sub thousand. So that went under, yeah, so

(01:24:06):
under 1000 grams. But that's a flat disk.
So it doesn't go well with crosswinds and it's more unstable in
cross winds. So the ones that do better in
cross winds are heavier. So you're going to add 1 to 200
grams to that. They do better with cross winds
and they create a little bit of thrust.
So when you have your Yaw anglesbecome larger, so they come at

(01:24:29):
you from the side more they can like head for example, like the
I think it's a vanquished disk like that one can produce lots
of rust at you know, whatever Yaw angles as it starts to
become steep, but it has a pretty severe stall point.

(01:24:50):
So at some point it then drastically goes to highly
unstable, so ours because we designed it to continue to flex
like if you think of like a flagflopping in the winds, a flag
will continually hold the winds as it moves because it moves so
that the wind, the wind moves it, right.

(01:25:10):
So that's what the the design ofthis is, is the winds actually
causes the five wall to move so that it maintains contact and
you have flow and attachments ofor attachments of airflow which
keeps the air from going turbulent.
So it makes it far more aerodynamic.
That's the first thing. And then the second thing is it

(01:25:32):
creates a full thrust in in an advantageous direction.
So when you have a cross wing itcreates thrust forward.
So that's just having to do withvectors of winds and apparent
winds and then lift, right? So it creates, so I know that
this is on video right now, but so if wind hits from this side,

(01:25:54):
so this side, what's going to happen?
Is the whole sidewall's going todo this, which creates an
airfoil like this, which creates.
So if the wind hits from here, it's always going to go in a
forward direction. So no matter where the cross
one's coming from, it'll create.Thrust.
So let me make sure I understandthis correctly.
So for those who aren't watchingthe video, you have roll, pitch
and Yaw, which is like aircraft trim.

(01:26:15):
So rolls like stop dropping, rolling pitches up and down your
nose and then yaws literally coming.
Yeah, like from which angle? Sideways.
So I read that you can have up to 90 watts of free power
savings with the wind coming at you from a 28° Yaw.
And you were talking about that drop off.
With a lot of other competition,that drop off kind of happens

(01:26:36):
around 8 to 15°, like it just becomes more, I guess,
turbulent. So I'm curious if I'm going
forward like I'm looking at you.The wind is coming behind me
from 28°. I know that that'll create
thrust, especially with what you're describing, but if I have
a like AI, guess it would be whatever, whatever is not 28.
But over here, however many degrees around that is, if it's

(01:26:57):
coming at you, you're saying it does the same thing.
Yeah, so here. I know this won't help any of
your listeners, but if this is, I'm just going to draw you a
diagram. So here is front wheel, back
wheel, handlebars. So let's say your wind is coming
from. You see one is like a slight
forward angle, right? So let's say this is your

(01:27:22):
apparent wind angle, right? So apparent wind is the sum of
the two vectors, so you're goingforward.
Plus there's natural, so true wind speeds, so the the wind in
nature. So that your apparent wind is
this, you're always going to getlift at a 90° angle from that,
so lift no matter what is alwaysgoing to be here.
So what I'm going to do right now, so there's your apparent

(01:27:44):
wind here is your 90° vector andso that's your 90° showing here.
So it's always going to be in a forward motion.
So the best stability and thrustproducing is here.
Yeah, no here. So when it comes to the side, it
goes straight up here. So when it comes from here, it's
still going to be forward. So no matter what, it'll always

(01:28:05):
be forward. And so which is why it's
adapted. I mean that's why like America's
Cup boats, those are sailboats. So where they have hulls and
hulls sit in the water, which will have a friction force,
right. So that should be something that
flows them down. So those boats travel like, I

(01:28:26):
don't know, 90 kilometres an hour and 30 kilometre an hour
winds. So it doesn't necessarily, and
this is what always like kind ofperplex me is how does something
that also has a friction force associated with its forward
momentum go three times faster than the only external force
that's propelling it. So something else is happening

(01:28:47):
there and it's it's it's physicslike, but it's that's what
happens and that's how boats andplanes are designed.
That's how planes flies, these lift forces.
What I find. Yeah.
Sorry, yeah, go ahead. I was.
Just going to say what I find sofascinating is like when I took
physics in college, I thought going into physics class, this
is like physics one. I was like, oh, I understand
it's all intuitive. But then once you start to

(01:29:08):
really get into the nitty gritty, there's a lot of things,
especially with aerodynamics or hydrodynamics, that's just not
intuitive the way that my brain works.
And the only reason I honestly believe you is because, like
what you're telling me, I need to, like, go and study that some
more 'cause that just does not make sense in my mind.
But I have noticed, you know, 'cause I ride, I don't know,
anywhere from 8 to 11 hours a week.
And whenever you get certain headwinds, I will notice that I

(01:29:30):
I'm actually going a little bit faster with less effort than
with no wind from from like a like you're talking about that
degree. So it confirms what I've felt,
which make no sense. But I don't know.
I guess what I'm asking is when can I have one of these wheels?
Yeah, you could definitely shot.There's also there's a video.
So this is one of the videos I should have filled and like, I I

(01:29:50):
had such a it took me so long tofind anyone in the industry that
actually believe me. For years people be like, I
know, like he found me crazy. But for years like I was raced
and I knew all the people in in the industry and anytime I would

(01:30:12):
say why don't you do this or what about this.
I get a, you know a range of responses from either them kind
of laughing at me, things like that.
OK that's a cute idea or them saying that's impossible, like
you know, it's they it's the same surface area of the wheel
and it's the same wind force. You can't have a different

(01:30:34):
result. And I always I'm like the one
thing I thought of is, which is also a weird connection.
I don't even know how I thought of it.
But you know those old firefighter catcher Nets, like
the ones that you see in the oldblack and white movies where if
there's a person in the balcony way up and the the department's
department's on fire, they jump into what what looks like a

(01:30:57):
trampoline that is held by all the firefighters.
So I look at that and I say, look, same person dropping from
the same place. They land and they hit the
firefighter, they're the catchernet.
They survive. They land, they hit the floor.
They don't like it's it's prettysimple.
It's like there's a different result, even though all of the

(01:31:18):
other components are exactly thesame.
And and having a side wall that's adaptive is what allows
for the end result to be beneficial.
Well you can design it, some of it, it's beneficial anyways.
And again like that's that's yougo back to America's cut boats

(01:31:40):
and how does something that should go slower than the winds
because it's only propelled by the winds and it has friction
forces. How does it go multiple times
faster than the speed of the wind that's propelling it.
So so that's what drove me And on the websites, on for on the
on the floor website there is a video somewhere of this is what

(01:32:03):
I showed. So when he first came to see my
prototypes and 'cause I I said why don't they see it why can't
they see what I see. And you know some people didn't
see the bleed, but this. So what I did is I took, I made
a little it's like a skateboard.Yeah.
So I've seen the video yeah so perfect.
So, and the only thing I changed, same surface area, the

(01:32:26):
same exact Model 1 is rigid, oneis morphable, put them in front
of multiple fans straight on. Crosswinds 1 does not move
forward at all, so that's when it's rigid.
So it's only a destabilizing force that wants to push it
directly over. And the other one, the one

(01:32:48):
that's Morphable every single time put it on the table and it
just actually gains speed as it goes across.
So. It's, yeah, yeah.
So I have a couple more questions and then I'll I'll try
to wrap it up because you probably have to go do things,
so I don't want to keep you too long.
But for Soar now is that launched already?

(01:33:09):
Is it officially launched? Yeah.
So SOAR is launched. We've we're trying to get right
now we're designing and trying to get into manufacturing rims.
So carbon fiber, we tried to rimthem last year through a lot of
issues with that because you start it with an extrusion, so

(01:33:31):
it's an extrusion shape. So which would be a cross cross
section profile of a rim and then after the extrusion process
you then roll it into the yeah so like a 700C or depending on
what the the rim diameter was. So when you roll it, because
it's aluminum and and metal is malleable, as you roll, let

(01:33:55):
things change shape slightly which is fine for the most part
in rims. But because our intent with the
sore wheel is to make it a regular super lightweight
training wheel where you have a snap in side wall, so the side
walls can be put on, taken off, no tools required, and they can

(01:34:19):
be replaced. So if something happens, it's
just like, you know, you get a flat, yeah, so you you ride and
you get a, a flat tire, so you put in a new tube, you're back
up and going. So same thing, It's much faster.
It's no tools required, a quick replacement.
So just snap it out, snap the new one in, off you go.

(01:34:41):
That's the intent. And also for travel, you can
remove the side walls so that you don't have to worry about
damage and now you can train on them and race on them and
eventually you can do things like change the the flexibility
of of sidewalls. So eventually there might be
different tensions of sidewalls for different results depending

(01:35:03):
on I guess you'd also have to fit within a rear triangle.
So, so right now we're we're trying to launch for this, so
with a product for this spring, summer whenever as soon as
possible and yeah that's that's the hope and that's kind of what
we're working towards right now.My like the end goal and like

(01:35:26):
This is why like we've been so, so and I've been filing patents
since we go all the way along. So I I don't want to necessarily
be a wheel manufacturer or a wheel company and I don't want
to compete against the other wheel companies.
I am actually and like this is what inspired me in the 1st
place is I think wheels should look different like bikes should

(01:35:50):
look different same thing so bikes should also be more thing.
But so the end goal for me is that I would like to see bikes
and wheels, the design and what they look like change so that
they can, yeah, the industry shift and I don't need it to be.
I don't need to be sore because I would love for us to then go
and do the next innovation that can also do the same thing and

(01:36:13):
change chain cycling and make riders faster in a different
way. So I would love it if if you
know we launch this, I know we have to prove it in the industry
so other companies won't want toadopt it because you know,
they've already done their own R&D and produce their next year
of products. But so we we're going to have to

(01:36:34):
prove it but in in the end what I would love is like if if all
wheels look like this they're just designed the morph that you
they they morph, they're adaptive they're they're lighter
they're safer. Like that's the biggest thing is
they're safe and any rider because it's light, it's safe
it's stable and it's fast. Any rider on any course in any
wind condition can ride the wheel to their best results.

(01:37:00):
So now the riders themselves who've trained so hard and start
to see their best performances and their potential, which is
like the end of the day, like that's your kind of like
Christmas morning of like, you know, unwrapping your presents
and but that's all the hard workyou put in and you want to see
it. You want to see what you're
capable of, and you don't want the limitation to be the

(01:37:20):
equipment. And what equipment does or
doesn't apply to you, particularly as a rider.
Yeah, that's super fascinating. Well, I'm excited for you guys
to launch and shift the industry.
I mean, I so I saw that it's patented.
So I'm assuming Phil probably pushed for that.
No, I've heard that before. So then Phil, so Phil and I,

(01:37:41):
it's it's not been easy. It's a lot of writing and it's a
lot of, yeah, that's been tough.But Phil's been, yeah, massive
supporter in that and it's been awesome and I'm glad we did it
even though like it's it's a lotto put in up front a lot of
time. It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money And yeah, so

(01:38:04):
it's but now now we're at the point where where that part is
all sort of done and now we're trying to launch.
So if we have to prove it then then great.
And you know the connection between, so you ask this is
between a label and sore is witha label we've used all the pro
athletes to get their feedback to produce the best possible

(01:38:25):
wheel to get as light, as fast, as functional as possible when
it comes to sort of what I wouldcall a traditional or standard
carbon fiber race wheel. And we've been able to use.
So I've been able to use those those athletes and like camera
rides like Chase less like there's there's been a lot of

(01:38:49):
athletes that have like I I owe so much to them because right
now I mean I'm making still every single pro race deals here
in my kitchen. So I.
Don't know why I haven't starteda YouTube to document this
process because people would go nuts over.
It so like it's it's I I can't wait for the day where I don't

(01:39:11):
have to make the wheels and theyactually just come off of
manufacturing line and and you can buy the personal bike shop
and and riders can go and get them because right now it's so
hard that's why we haven't launched because I'm it's I'm
I'm building them all but you know a lot of like so much

(01:39:31):
thanks and gratitude goes for the races because there's
because they're hand built they're one off that are not
like I know like camera last year for example yeah well but
also like camera for example last year through to Indian
Wells and it looks like she got like almost like a booklet or
something to the side of her bike bag she was off sided bag

(01:39:52):
but it impacted and smashed the whole so the wheel showed up
shattered you know days before the race so then can I have to
she can't go to a bike shop and buy a new sidewall she can't
travel with a new sidewall I'm like that's.
The end goal. So until that point, I'm like my
ex, I race pro and I know what'son the line is she races with

(01:40:18):
this feel and travels with this feel knowing that there is a
very real risk of it being damaged in airline travel
because you're putting your facewith like the baggage people.
And you know, if that happens, it's there's a lot of money on
the line now. So yeah, yeah, I'll.

(01:40:42):
I'll tell her to start. Traveling private and then
that'll solve the problem. Just get her own private.
Yeah, exactly. So I have a couple of more
questions. If it's OK, Do you still have
time for the OK. So first question, I know from
my personal experience and then hearing others people experience
with starting companies, you geta lot of Nos.

(01:41:03):
And I can only imagine how many Nos you got before you were
introduced or had that opportunity, that shot, that
elevator pitch to Phil to kind of bring him on, 'cause I
imagine not only who he is but the connections he holds enable
something like this to become reality.
How did that affect you with allof the Nos?
Like, did it affect you? Did you just like, oh, I gotta
keep trying? Like, did you almost quit a few

(01:41:24):
100 times or none? No, I never almost quit.
I so I guess I had a serious conversation with myself when I
started it. And it's also that, so the way
I'm driven has nothing to do with an end result.
Ever. So I would have been happy if I
could have just tinkered with myown stuff and made it the
fastest in the world. And like that would have been

(01:41:45):
awesome. But that's not what I wanted.
Like what I wanted was to see cycling change and I want to see
everybody else who could never ride these wheels.
Like the the, the fastest wheels.
I want to see them be able to dothat safely and then go and race
like where all their energy goesinto just moving forward and

(01:42:08):
having the best race. So yeah, like when I, when I was
doing it, there was a a million those and I kind of just every
single time I got a no, I never saw it as discouragement.
I always thought, OK, they don'tsee it, so they're not the
answer. I also wanted somebody I would
not work with, somebody who needed me to prove it to them.

(01:42:29):
So to me, it had to be the rightperson.
And that was really important because there's no way I would
have agreed to work with somebody who thought, OK, maybe
that's a good idea. I don't know about this.
Maybe. Let's see if we can develop it.
Like, no, that wasn't it. Like it.
It needed to be somebody who sawexactly what I saw.

(01:42:53):
And that was a very particular thing I was looking for.
So when I got a no, that actually to me was kind of easy
because I'm like, no, you're notthe person, you don't see what I
see. So that was a really important
requirement in my mind is I do not need to convince anybody of

(01:43:14):
this. I want to find the person who
sees what I see and who wants tochange cycling in the way that I
sort of like has similar mindsetand goals and like sees how it
can affect racing and cyclists and racers and the industry.

(01:43:35):
So anytime I got to know I got two questions.
One, well, two things is 1 is OK, so they're not the person.
OK, so very quick they are, theyaren't the person.
And the second thing was for my own feedback of why don't they
see it. So base I would look at what
they said as their feedback to help me try and sort of either

(01:43:59):
improve how I tried to show it or model it, which is how I got
in the end to that sort of little skateboard model in the
video on the website. Because I know like some people
believe and don't necessarily need to see, like they they just
believe things not blindly but because they see it in their

(01:44:20):
head and they actually know it and then other people need to
see something to believe it. So like, yeah, two different
types of people. It didn't matter to me.
But The thing is, I wanted to find the person that saw what I
saw, had the same goals as I had.

(01:44:40):
And you know whether I needed a model that actually very bluntly
proved it, 'cause I didn't have capacity to go into a wind
tunnel like it's. It's, it's.
Financially out of out of out ofmy reach so so so saw my little
skateboard model you saw and I had also showed him like I had a
bike frame I had multiple so many meals.

(01:45:02):
I had like I had gone through somany renditions and I'd already
filed some provisional patents and so that was so I think he
was first of all impressed or thought it was crazy that
because he would go through. That take a little bit of both,
I think, to be an entrepreneur and come out with a new product
and be an inventor, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

(01:45:25):
So, but, but he saw it and and then once we started working
together and this is another added sort of silver lining to
COVID is we're in COVID we're not producing, we can't launch.
So let's go to the wind tunnel abunch of times.
And we went to the wind tunnel like I think three or four times
and put, I don't know, 30 wheelsin the tunnel.

(01:45:48):
And each one was very particularly different to see
what one change would make. And now I had, so I had what I
had felt as a rider. So I know I had spent a million
hours on the bike and I had ridden race fields and I had
been in every single wind condition possible and have

(01:46:10):
raced. So I know what equipment feels
like, whether it's arrow or non arrow.
And I had adopted my own equipment and now there was
something that didn't connect. So this is what I loved about
it. I had no way to prove it.
So this is just my own feeling. So I'd ride and I had a disc

(01:46:31):
wheel on and I didn't know that I didn't have my spokes training
wheel like shallow suction training wheel on.
And we've also done and there are some other tests on and
videos on the website where we did wind tests.
So we put various different wheels on.
I made this like strain gauge apparatus which showed like a a

(01:46:52):
four scale only blew wind at it and and then saw.
So it would so the wheel would do this it would flutter in
crossman's like this and then itwould also bounce off the scale
and then we'd have all we had a camera on the readings.
So all of those, especially whenyou get negative readings.
What it meant is it had on that scale bounced off to the point

(01:47:13):
where there was 0. So that's a bet.
If anything you have negatives. That's bad, but you can see the
same same wins, same stand set up, same wins, same everything.
Even with like a 30mm rim cross section rim race like arrow

(01:47:33):
tested in the tunnel idealized that wheel still unstable in
crosswinds and then you put our full disk on and it sits there
straight and it doesn't move andand that's sort of to me, I'm
like there's one thing, yeah, it's like so you can see it's
completely stable in crosswinds.So the job of the the the

(01:47:57):
sidewall is to absorb and dissipate the crosswind forces
and translate them into stabilizing forward thrust or
propulsion for us and and then it allows the rider to not have
to do that. So the rider doesn't have to
stabilize, they can just continue racing and putting
their energy into their pedals and having it actually translate

(01:48:18):
into forward speed as as their training intended.
Yeah, for sure. Well, I'm excited for them to
launch. We'll definitely be keeping an
eye on it and we'll make sure tolink everything for all of these
amazing companies that you're working with.
I do have one final question foryou, and it's a stupid question,
so here we go. I know you've had no stupid

(01:48:40):
questions. Ever.
I know. I'm trying to.
I'm trying to live up to the name a little bit.
We'll see. But I did, I did ask you your
age. And I'm sure my wife's gonna be
like, why did you do that? You're never supposed to do that
to a woman. So we'll see.
We'll see how it happens. So the question with a little
bit of a lead up. So X previously Twitter is now
worth less than half of what Elon Musk paid for.

(01:49:02):
I don't know if you followed that, but he paid for Twitter
last year $44 billion. It's currently valued at 19
billion. I would love to get your
professional thoughts and opinion on that.
On its evaluation. Yeah.
Oh, OK, so I agree with that. So I I agree.
Well my opinion is a company is only as valuable as the mind
behind it. So Elon Musk who is really as

(01:49:28):
this can be has done some very not like he's not stable in his
actions and it's I think a lot of people have lost trust in
some of the things that he's done said posted like it's so he

(01:49:50):
again going back to the leader in a company is only able like
the evaluation of a company is based on the people in the minds
behind it is you start to question sort of not his sanity
but is he. So he came up with Tesla and
even SpaceX and that is looking absolutely incredible.
And you're like, Oh my gosh, this is this is a brilliant mind

(01:50:13):
and this is somebody who's goingto take the world places And
then by Twitter and like the onething that like then they get
into like petty arguments and small things.
And I just hearing something about him showing up the first
day with the kitchen sink. I don't even know what that is.

(01:50:33):
But it's what is what is that right Like that is questionable
behavior and which leads to questioning the leader and and
so yeah it's the evaluation of company is based on its
perceived value which the value has to do with the people who

(01:50:54):
are supporting it and when something happens here like I'm
pointing actually to I'm doing ahand motion but so with the
company or the platform so whichis Twitter or X that is a little
bit off. People start questioning and
they stop supporting and it doesn't become the same platform

(01:51:16):
and the same experience that like go back to Steve Jobs.
Everything comes down to user experience.
It's not the same user experience.
So Twitter, for it to maintain its evaluation would have had to
maintain above all else the sameuser experience.
And I think that is the one thing that has critically failed
and it's affected the evaluationand also people's trust in what

(01:51:41):
was Twitter. Yeah, interesting.
I I wasn't expecting such a deepresponse, but it begs me to ask
one more final question. If Elon reaches out to you after
listening to this podcast, whichI'm sure he's listening to, he
says, hey Nicole, I really like your idea for soar.
I want to invest 50 million intosoar.
What would you say? I say no problem, you invest and

(01:52:01):
you have to trust, trust Sarah and I as the people that run the
company, because you're investing in the same thing,
right? So, absolutely.
And I yeah, yeah, Love his input, love his thousands in
mind and his resources. But you always have to stick
with what you know. You gotta dance with the one

(01:52:23):
that brought you from you. You got you have to stick with
what originally drove you to start something, your original
vision and who it was directed or aimed towards.
And as soon as that waivers, that's where you start to kind
of become a little bit like fuzzy in your company's
direction and that's where people become fuzzy in their

(01:52:46):
support. And yeah, like that's so sure
you all must come support us. I'll send out.
We'll tag him on X after the after the episode.
There you go. Yeah.
Well, Nicole, thank you so much.I'll talk to you for just a
second off the air, but just want to say thank you so much
for jumping on and spending two hours with me and just telling

(01:53:07):
me about your story. I love the technical stuff side
of this, so I'll probably reach out again at a later date and
just have like a super geeked out conversation where I could
learn hopefully from you. So be super fun.
No problem. Thanks for having me.
Yeah. This episode is brought to you
by The Rudy Project. Thank you so much to Mike
Bunting and the team at The RudyProject for sponsoring today's

(01:53:28):
episode. If you want to receive 35% off
everything that is reproject from helmets to sunglasses to
gear, please check out the show description notes and you will
find a link where you can set upan ambassador account to get
that's right 35% off everything.Also, we have a newsletter that
is on the website Stupid Questions dot Show.
If you sign up for that newsletter and give us a follow

(01:53:50):
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If you follow us and sign up forthe newsletter you'll be entered
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(01:54:13):
sign up for the newsletter at stupid questions dot show.
That is the website. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Stupid
Questions with Nicole. I just want to extend another
huge shout out for Nicole for spending so much of her time
with me to tell her story and just share what she's got going
on. I'm definitely going to have her
back on so we can have a more indepth conversation about

(01:54:35):
everything else that she does. Because one thing we didn't even
touch on is the fact that she's a coach.
And off the air we were talking about how that has inspired her
and taught her so much about herself as well as the lives
that she lives that she's been able to inspire.
If you made it to this point, the podcast just want to say
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(01:54:56):
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(01:55:17):
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please do it. Thank you guys so much and we'll
see you in the next one.

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Episode #24 - Nicole van Beurden, Inventor, Former Professional Triathlete, Carbon Fiber Expert

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode #24 - Nicole van Beurden, Inventor, Former Professional Triathlete, Carbon Fiber Expert