March 18, 2022 • 39 mins
GASLIGHT - manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity
Subsister: A Real Podcast - Created & Written by Alexander Chamberlain
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:25):
To commemorate the new year.
I just wanted to give a shout out RT Crhtdu Bs D OS PB K.
Now on to business,
the fan vote has finally come in.
Sonny.
We now have the results of who the fans think should have won season 35.
Did they like Jennifer Whitler as our winner or did they think Riley o'connor should have won our runner up.
(00:47):
They voted for Riley for sure,
they always have a problem with who wins.
Subsist.
What do you mean every damn time?
They think they know better than how it went down.
How can you dispute who won?
Think about it?
They won.
They obviously did everything right?
Because it's fun.
I don't know.
There's still all these variables for us to look at and ask what if Riley had played her.
(01:07):
I on Leo instead you're having fun.
Re but there are a lot of people out there that are going to harass Jennifer because she won and it's unacceptable.
First of all,
I'm not an apologist.
Let me start there.
It's never OK to harass anyone,
but I don't want to generalize the whole audience here.
I'm not,
I'm just saying the people that do treat former players like their toys.
(01:28):
They think that they get to decide the story like it's a video game.
There's even fan fiction.
Oh God.
If it's anything like my immortal,
I don't even want to hear the results Jennifer won.
That's it.
We can talk about the things she did to win.
But polls like these are just an excuse for people to be assholes.
What's getting to you,
man?
(01:49):
I'm,
I'm tired of people playing by rules.
They made up and expecting everyone to follow them.
I'm sick of walking an invisible tightrope.
This was a long season.
Need to look into fan fiction.
All right.
Looking at fan fiction.
Next,
(02:10):
we found a new recording that was my old partner,
Sonny going on a rant and that was me,
Ray Bugler talking about a season of Subsist that never happened.
Subsist was a show that was canceled over five years ago.
I used to do a podcast covering it,
but when they ended things so did I.
Two weeks ago,
I found an episode that I didn't record.
(02:30):
If you haven't,
you should listen to the first episode before proceeding.
We also found an audio recording of my death that's due to take place in eight weeks on May 13th.
Trisha.
My producer found another episode on the drive this weekend.
So we've been listening to it nonstop trying to find any clue to.
(02:52):
I don't even know to stop my death.
Figure out how these are being made.
How did it come from the future?
How are they getting to my drive?
What happened to subsist?
What happened to what happened to me?
I'm Re Buchler and this is Subsist,
a real podcast.
(03:42):
Hi.
How can I assist you today?
Yeah,
I was wondering if I could talk to Curtiss Lowe.
Do you have an appointment?
I don't do actually hold on.
So,
uh,
how long have you been working for C BT?
A couple of years?
I got this job when I got my new phone.
The 12,
well,
they're on twelves now.
(04:04):
I thought the eight was coming out soon.
Haven't been online much.
I haven't been anywhere much.
I guess it looks like he isn't in today.
Are you sure you had an appointment?
I,
uh,
must have gotten the days wrong or he did.
Actually,
it,
Curtis can be like that.
Can we,
uh,
just reschedule it?
(04:24):
I'd be glad to.
Let's just,
huh?
It looks like he hasn't taken appointments in over a year.
Huh?
Got some,
uh,
a little more late for that meeting than I thought.
When was your appointment?
Exactly.
If you could just tell them that stop by.
That'd be great.
(04:46):
What was the name?
What did you say?
What was the name?
Just tell Curtis to answer the phone till now.
How are you holding up?
It feels like every second is critical but we're not getting anywhere.
(05:08):
Sonny won't help.
Not sure what he could do.
Anyway,
Jennifer Whitler,
our Phantom winner doesn't seem to exist outside of these podcasts.
And Curtis Lowe,
former host and producer,
subsist,
I can't even figure out a way to get a hold of him.
Well,
I got everything compiled for this,
like you asked.
So it's ready.
I put out a call to the audience to send in their theories and ideas on our phone number.
(05:30):
Give me some leads to follow because I'm not gonna lie.
I had no idea where to go next.
You might want to listen to them first before recording.
This is Cameron calling from Arizona.
You have one unheard message.
Yo,
Ray,
how's it going?
(05:51):
I used to listen to every episode.
I was doing landscaping.
So I had a lot of time to kill.
I like your new show though.
They're shorter than they used to be.
That's really my only complaint.
I think you should force Sonny back into the show somehow.
It's not right that he left you high and dry the way he did.
What happened when he called?
What did you guys talk about?
(06:12):
Thank you,
Cameron.
You're the reason we do this show.
OK.
That is definitely not true.
You're doing this for you.
Yeah,
but I wanna document this.
What if this happened to someone else and they think they're alone.
I never considered that.
I wonder if this is contagious.
Cameron Sonny asked that our conversation remain private.
So I stopped the recording to honor his wishes.
(06:33):
And that's that all Tricia who's next?
All right.
We have a gentleman from South Dakota named,
whatever you'll hear it.
OK.
It can't be that bad.
Great.
This is still on.
If you thought about a government experiment,
you can see what you've been up to the past five years.
I'll bet,
man.
And I'd easily put two K on you and Sony haven't been kidnapped and experimented on.
(06:58):
It happens all the time.
You get put into a bunker for two years.
They force ideas into your brain with LSD and subliminal messaging.
Then they see what you do.
You probably did make those podcasts,
but the brainwashing didn't stick suppress memories.
Your brain won't let you remember the drama anyway.
Good luck.
It's great to see someone join the fight.
See you on the front line,
brother Stallone.
(07:19):
You should definitely check your colr and here you go.
Brother next up is,
oh,
come on.
What are the odds?
What,
who's the next caller?
Your caller from New Jersey.
Trish.
If you wanted to leave me some fan mail,
you could have just.
Hi Ray.
(07:40):
This is Trish.
We met once during a meet and greet thing.
A couple of years after you won.
I know you're trying to get in contact with Curtis Lowe.
Have you tried just going to C BT or to his house or something?
Don't stalk him but you know,
wait for him or whatever.
(08:03):
That's not a bad idea.
Trish.
Trisha likes what Trish has to say.
Surprise,
surprise.
You're disagreeing with her because you're both Trish.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny.
Same name you live in L A,
right where the C BT building is?
Why don't you just stop in and try to ambush Curtis?
You really think that'll work.
No.
But what else are we gonna do?
Keep taking calls from crazy people.
(08:30):
So I took the advice of Trish New Jersey.
Trish to visit Curtis Lowe at C BT,
but he hasn't been there in over a year.
So what is Curtis Lowe up to?
It's becoming apparent to me that the mysterious cancellation of the show has something to do with the mysterious podcasts.
Let's really cover the cancellation.
(08:52):
If we get all our information organized,
we might be able to see something we didn't before.
Good point.
Ok.
It's spring 2015 season,
34 is airing.
Subsist had permanently settled in Guam.
The location of the original season in the 1st 30 seasons.
Subsist had moved all around the world.
Like I said before I played in the Dominican Republic,
(09:14):
not quite as exotic as some other locations,
but subsist had gotten a nice kick back from the government in Guam,
which is the US territory with a nice tax break.
They settled there,
built a production headquarters and kept on going.
They put their players on Tung beach,
a quiet beach.
They used to see some tourism still does in the off season.
The finale,
(09:34):
this season 34 rolls around in May 2015.
What do you wanna do?
Another tick of that May?
It's tied together.
The recording where I die it's in May.
Hold on.
Tell me what,
oh Subsist would air twice a year once in the fall and once in the spring,
(09:55):
the finale for the spring season would always air in May,
whatever is gonna happen,
this May is tied to subsist.
It's the same date as the finale would have been.
That sounds like more than a coincidence.
Someone's gonna kill me on the night of the finale.
Tired of eating out.
(10:16):
I know after hours of sifting through thousands of files,
the last thing I wanna do is find a recipe online,
go grocery shopping and then cook with red apron.
Half the battle's done with a gourmet selection of the finest and freshest meats and produce.
Red Apron provides an easy to eat and prepare meal.
Last night,
I had smoked salmon and wild rice.
It was filling and delicious.
(10:36):
I don't think I'll ever go without red Apron again and you shouldn't either.
I know I'll never go back.
We have another connective thread.
It doesn't get us any closer to where we were,
but we know a bit more about whoever's planning this or whatever is happening.
(10:56):
Are you going to continue with the cancellation thing or are we moving on?
We need to No,
no,
no,
you're right.
Let's stay on track.
Let's finish this and we'll get back to the finale thing soon.
Ok.
So the finale for season 34 rolls around,
one thing you have to know about season 34 is that it wasn't very popular.
The cast wasn't well liked.
Fans had grown tired of Guam and wanted to go back to rotating locations.
(11:18):
The eventual winner,
Raul Seneca wasn't a well liked winner.
Well,
it wasn't really his fault.
The editing was really bad and they didn't give a good story to explain his strategy.
The truth is he was a bit of a villain but the editors were so heavy handed way too many details.
Focus old habits,
sorry,
right?
Every subsist finale ends in the terminal judgment where the final two players are judged by the Shadow Council.
(11:41):
The last seven or so players voted out,
they make their case and the Shadow Council votes on who wins and the finale ends.
Then the convocation begins.
Uh It's like a reunion show or something except it happens right after the finale,
Curtis Lowe brings out the ballots and we see who wins.
Then he does a little segment,
talks to the players,
chats with the live audience.
(12:03):
I was there that night.
I remember he got on stage and that's when he started.
I can just play the episode.
I don't think anyone is going to hit us with AC and D at this point.
(12:23):
J well,
it's been quite the season season.
(12:45):
34.
Can you believe it?
I never thought in my wildest dreams that this would be a 16 year journey.
34 seasons,
it's more than I ever deserved.
And I'm so glad to be the one to take the journey with you.
But like every subsist season,
every journey ends.
And I'm sad to announce that subsist will not be returning this fall.
(13:09):
Every run has a terminal judgment and we've reached ours.
But I don't want this to be sad.
This is good.
We've had such a beautiful time together and we did really wonderful things here,
really important things and we couldn't have done it without all of you out there.
America,
the world subsist is a global phenomenon.
(13:32):
It continues all across the planet.
And as long as you're all alive,
subsisting it'll never die.
Subsist is forever.
But let's not dwell on that.
Let's get to the fan favorite.
(13:58):
The articles hit the next day and nobody could believe it subsist had been on a slow but steady decline in terms of ratings.
But the world was changing from basic cable to different forms of viewership.
And C BT knew that other institutions were changing expectations.
They've gained control of the budget settled in Guam helped a lot and other small stuff like lower scale art direction,
(14:19):
smaller crews.
Sure season 34 wasn't well received,
but it was like,
it was almost like Curtis and C BT heard the outcries against the season and decided that we get what we deserve.
If we're crying about how bad it is,
why not show us how bad it can really get and cancel the whole thing.
Almost like we spoke it into existence.
(14:43):
The days after that were weird.
There was absolutely no word coming out of C BT about the decision other than it was legitimate,
the only leaky pipe was the production designer Matt Atkins.
In an interview with Sonia Orbison,
he stated there's a black curtain around every show.
(15:04):
The audience never really knows what's going on in the dark.
You wouldn't believe how it all went down.
He hasn't spoken to the public since we recorded a few more episodes for re owns the internet.
But it became clear we just had nothing to talk about.
We were doing a podcast about a canceled show.
What was there to cover?
We tried talking about other reality shows like Animal Farm and even movies,
(15:27):
but it just wasn't the same with less and less to talk about.
I wondered if me and Sonny were still friends or just coworkers because Sonny had other ambitions.
He was a musician first.
Actually,
he took a detour to do podcasting with me,
but that wasn't his thing.
It was mine.
And after that,
(15:52):
this cobb salad I've ever had in my life and you can experience it too when you visit green apron details in the description All right.
All right.
What do you rate season 35?
Where does it land?
I've done quite the mathematical equation to deliver an outcome.
The hypotenuse,
uh,
quantifies,
uh,
I'm out of big words.
It's 1515 out of 35.
(16:14):
Wow,
that's high.
Yeah,
I like Jennifer.
It was a good cast.
I'm not as upset about the twists and winner,
like the internet is.
Where do you have it?
I,
it's weird during the season as I was watching an episode to episode,
I actually liked it more but the more I thought about it after and reading reactions and breakdowns of the season,
(16:36):
the less I did re,
that's like staring at a painting too hard.
You're missing the picture because you're staring at the brushstrokes,
the trees and a missing forest,
blah,
blah,
blah.
What do you mean?
Are you saying?
I studied the season too hard.
It's the internet.
It poisons everything,
man.
You liked it?
They didn't and a Mob can be really convincing.
(16:56):
Why are you letting them influence your decision?
I don't know if that's what's happening or how I'd say it.
It's not like I'm brainwashed to hate season 35.
That's exactly what someone who's brainwashed would say.
But no,
really.
This is how it goes.
A season plays out the internet talks and whatever they say becomes gospel.
A good player turns out to be horrible.
(17:17):
A bad season is actually good.
An important twist becomes meaningless and reverse it all next season.
I don't know what I'm supposed to do about the lack of objective truth in the world.
You got to stop thinking about true and false.
There's only what people want to believe and what they'll say to make you believe it.
(17:41):
Hey,
do you want to do an interview with Kira Townsend?
Kira Townsend?
Yeah.
What is that weird?
Am I getting emails from someone who's dead or something?
No,
no,
it's,
it's just that I only interviewed her once back when I first started.
Was she too busy or just didn't care about stepsister anymore?
Like a lot of people should.
(18:03):
No.
Kras just not involved.
She was a runner up during season 19 and after that,
she just didn't have much love for Subsist.
It was one of those things that was just an oddity in her life.
Not a focal point.
So,
no.
Oh,
yes.
Schedule that interview.
If Kira is reaching out now,
it really can't be because of subsist.
It's because of whatever this is.
She said she can talk next month in the meantime.
(18:25):
He said he wanted to talk to Matt Atkins.
Oh,
yeah.
But that's impossible.
But what if it wasn't,
what I'd kill to talk to Matt Atkins.
All right.
Take that went to the bank.
Then you didn't find him.
You're messing with me.
He said he's willing to talk,
but it has to be in person and he lives in Eureka which is like really far north in California,
(18:48):
like really far north.
Long drive.
It is.
But before that the specialists want to bring you on,
I knew this was coming.
Do you,
do you think I'm ready?
Oh,
no,
definitely.
No.
Yeah,
that's what I thought.
All right,
let's connect to them.
(19:13):
Subsist specialists.
Paul and Alyssa are back and we are joined today by the one,
the only Ray Buchler.
It's weird being on this end of the interview for once.
Like,
are you gonna start speaking in tongues because of the mix up is parcel tongue real?
You know,
I wouldn't mind talking to Snakes.
Ray is here to talk about his new podcast.
(19:34):
Subsist,
a real podcast.
We just listened to a clip from one of his mysterious episodes.
I got cut to the chase.
Is this a giant hoax?
Did you actually listen to the first episode?
I listened to the trailer and I've been meaning to finish the first episode.
But as I listened to it,
is it supposed to be like fan fiction?
(19:54):
No,
no,
no,
this is real.
I mean,
it's literally in the title Alyssa.
This is really happening to me.
Wow.
So you're saying that you really are receiving mystery podcast episodes that you have no control over and show an alternate version of you.
Well,
alternate universes are really unlikely according to a friend of a,
of a friend,
(20:15):
if you can see if you can hear the air quotes.
Yeah.
But that's what you're saying.
This is just really crazy considering your season.
My season.
You've probably heard it 100 times.
But people wonder what would have happened if you lost that final challenge.
If you don't win the invulnerability artifact,
you don't go to terminal judgment and win the game.
(20:36):
It's just one of those seasons.
People ask questions about a lot.
Paul thinks you would have gotten voted out.
I mean,
you can't deny it re you would have lost Dominican Republic no matter what.
If you didn't win that thing,
then do you go on to podcasts?
Does anyone listen,
are you able to get the guests?
You do?
It's one of those chaos theory things or is it string theory?
(20:57):
I don't know science.
It's why I stick to subsist.
In the latest episode.
We found Sonny suggests that the internet can change fact by wanting something enough.
Wow.
So it's because the internet,
is there a physics theory behind that or what if someone wanted you to lose so badly that they are in the process of changing everyone's minds that you did lose and who would want that?
(21:22):
I don't know but think about it.
No,
seriously.
Think about it.
Someone is releasing these to trick all of us because you know what happens next?
Someone will say rumor has it that Rey actually lost Dominican Republic and that rumor will mutate and these obscure podcasts will get brought up like evidence like in new Guinea season 26 everyone thinks Curtiss Lowe fixed the final three because a vote looked wonky.
(21:55):
Everyone became convinced that Curtis had fixed it to get the winner he wanted.
Right.
So this is someone trying to convince the world that Ray Buchler didn't win but was given it by production or something.
But why,
why I don't know,
have any enemies,
any rival podcasters that you crushed on your way to the top besides us.
(22:16):
Of course,
I didn't crush you.
We even did episodes together.
I'm kidding.
But seriously enemies got me.
Maybe someone wanted to tarnish your legacy.
They hear this and think you're a liar or just trying to get attention.
That's not what I'm doing though,
isn't it though?
You're making a podcast about the experience.
So you want someone to hear.
(22:38):
You came on our show to talk about it.
So you want our audience to listen too?
No,
I want it as public record just in case in case something happens to you,
you know,
you wouldn't be laughing if you listened to the first episode.
It's not funny what happened.
What did I miss?
Someone made a recording of re being attacked or something?
(22:59):
It ends with him screaming and it's supposed to happen in four months.
I wanted my recordings out there in case anyone else has experienced something similar to reach out.
Sure.
Sure.
While drawing a lot of downloads on Apple and Spotify.
See you're the one trying to create a narrative about my motivations.
I'm just exploring the option.
(23:19):
You know,
Paul.
It would make sense if it was you,
wouldn't it?
Whoa What's that supposed to mean?
Think about it.
No.
Really.
Think about it.
Paul?
You said it yourself that I crushed you on my way to the top.
I'm sorry.
People like listening to me more than you.
You've been trying to discredit me since we started recording and you're trying to change the story.
I think we should calm down.
(23:39):
How'd you do it,
Paul?
How'd you fake our voices?
I mean,
I guess we know why now jealousy,
you wish subsist specialists was as popular as Ray owns the internet was on its worst day.
See,
I can fabricate motivations too.
Yeah,
I'm jealous of your success Ray.
But at least I didn't dump my girlfriend over a reality TV show you played a decade ago.
(24:07):
No one else is that much of an asshole?
I knew the Subsist specialist thing wasn't gonna go well.
And since it came out reviews from my first episode have been growing more negative.
(24:28):
I even got some hate mail and a death threat.
Go on.
Read what it says.
Why do I have to read it?
Because it'll be funnier when you do it.
Deadpan gray.
(24:48):
You're like everyone in the media,
you lie and whore yourself out to get more ratings.
I used to love your show,
but now I can't bear to see you like this.
I think about how much you used to care about.
Subsist and now you're just praying off its corpse like a vulture.
And the only way to deal with vultures is a strong rifle and steady aim.
(25:10):
There's a lot of profanity and slurs removed as well as a cleaned up grammar.
Use the wrong form of praying.
I'm imagining you praying over a pile of subsist DVD cases and old buffs.
Hey,
I still own those original seasons of Subsist on tape had saw my grandma from recording the world series over him.
(25:31):
What was that?
It's my email notification.
This guy named Martin keeps emailing me.
It sounds like some scientologist,
rhetoric or something.
I keep marking it as spam but it keeps coming through at this point.
Maybe we should join.
It's got to be more normal than this.
(25:53):
I'm driving to Eureka now to see Matt Atkins.
He was the production designer for every season of Subsist.
He was there from day one until the end with Curtis Lowe.
I've got a portable recording device.
I'm gonna do some field recording for our conversation.
When I played,
we saw a bit of Matt.
He'd be doing a challenge where I'd have to balance or something and he'd ask how the wood we were standing on felt.
(26:17):
He was asking if it hurt.
I was never very good at the challenges.
That's why I was such a surprise.
I won the last one.
But I told him that day that it hurt,
my foot was already sore early on in the challenge.
All he said was good.
(26:49):
Matt lives in a really nice house right on the coast.
I don't know if he was technically in Eureka,
but it was the biggest nearby town.
It's one of those houses that looks like it belongs in Iceland.
You know,
the whole back wall is glass facing the ocean.
You could hear the waves crashing outside.
It was that close.
(27:09):
Mao is a bit like the Pacific ocean.
It looks inviting.
You think it's gonna be warm?
But you're always shocked by how cold it turns out to be Ray Beechler.
(27:39):
It's been a long time.
Where have you been?
I was traveling for a while,
you know,
wanted a break from the entertainment world.
I needed some,
uh,
needed some privacy.
Yeah,
I'm a private guy too.
I like to work.
Everything else that comes with the entertainment world doesn't interest me.
(28:00):
Oh,
I know the feeling I've been getting nasty messages from fans.
Yeah.
Over your season.
No.
No.
My new podcast.
Uh,
it's the reason I wanted to talk to you actually.
Ah,
sorry,
mate.
Don't listen to podcasts.
Ah,
can't seem to focus on them when I'm doing something and it feels like a waste to just sit on the couch and listen,
(28:24):
you know,
so sorry,
I haven't listened to yours yet.
Not even when you're doing carpentry stuff.
That's a light hours of silence.
Matt.
Nah.
Mate.
Got music on,
usually helps me focus.
How'd you get your gig on some sister Matt?
Is that what we're doing here?
An interview?
I thought this might just be two friends catching up.
(28:45):
Were we really friends?
As I remember it,
the few interactions we had were all business.
That's strange.
Ray.
Really strange.
(29:05):
I remember a lot of talks we had,
especially after the season ended.
We've never had a long chat now just being insulting mate.
You told me your plans to go into podcasting way back then.
You even told me why you wanted to start drink.
Uh Yeah.
(29:26):
No,
thanks.
Not a request.
This doesn't sound familiar.
I don't know what you're talking.
Yeah,
man.
Elizabeth Pruitt.
I still remember Elizabeth Pruitt.
Now,
how do you know about Elizabeth Pruitt?
(29:59):
I was always an entertainer growing up.
I guess when you aren't good looking,
you aren't athletic.
You're not that smart.
You gotta find something.
You're either the weird kid.
Yeah.
You're either the weird kid into collecting rocks or you'd be the class clown.
I wanted to be an actor.
Steve Martin is my hero as a kid.
Stuff like the jerk or dirty Ron scoundrels.
(30:20):
I loved it.
I want to be just like him.
I was always telling jokes or stories and trying to get people to laugh.
They didn't always.
But when they did,
I held on to it,
I always remembered who laughed and who didn't.
Elizabeth Pruitt was someone who never laughed.
We went to the same schools from second grade until senior year.
(30:42):
We'd always known each other but we were in different hemispheres.
It was junior year in some English class or language,
arts,
whatever it was called.
We were reading a Tale Of Two Cities or it might have been another Dickens book.
I honestly can't keep them straight.
And it was a long time ago,
I was going on a spiel about having to read books like this.
No one reads a Tale of Two Cities outside of school.
You don't see anyone reading this for fun.
(31:03):
A lame stand aback precursor.
I could tell my audience wasn't into it.
People in class wanted me to shut up already and Elizabeth Pruitt made sure to let me know Rey,
nobody cares,
nobody is ever going to care about what you have to say.
I've never told anyone this.
(31:24):
But that was one of the reasons I even applied to subsist.
A couple of years later,
I made an application video and submitted it online.
And after I won,
I started a podcast,
I looked up Elizabeth Pruitt.
She's managing a hair salon now,
one of the really nice ones,
she looks successful.
She's never come around to apologize.
(31:45):
She never remembers me.
She probably doesn't even remember saying that at all.
We're grown up now.
So she probably apologized for being a rude teenager and think I'm weird for even remembering it,
but I never forgot what she said.
And honestly,
I always used it to push myself.
I used it as motivation when I was in trouble and subsist on the verge of getting voted out.
(32:09):
I'd remember that Elizabeth said no one cared about what I have to say.
So I made sure people cared about what I said.
My game was predicated on my ability to convince people to lie to them and trick them into voting out people that could have helped them.
I isolated them.
I made them rely on me and then I cut them off one by one.
And every time I was imagining it was Elizabeth.
(32:34):
Now,
I'm not obsessed with her.
I don't check her social media ever or anything like that.
It's just that sting that remained in my soul over a decade later because I made sure my voice was heard and that I'd never be forgotten again,
but I never told Matt Atkins any of that.
(33:01):
Alright.
I'll ask again,
how do you know about Elizabeth Pruitt Ray?
I'm telling you,
we talked about this,
the wrap party after you won.
We were drinking and talking about ambitions.
I told you I wanted to build my own house and you said you wanted to create a podcast to prove Elizabeth Pruitt wrong.
I've never told anyone about her.
(33:22):
Maybe you had more to drink than you thought and you were malnourished.
Alcohol probably hit you harder than you thought it.
Tell me what's the black curtain in that interview you did with Sonia?
You said there was a black curtain around every show and that the audience never had an idea what was going on behind the scenes,
right?
My job just got axed.
I was bitter.
(33:43):
You're in the industry.
You know what I'm talking about?
Every show is a mess,
barely holding together anything.
I don't think that's what you meant.
Somebody threw your nd A back in your face,
didn't they?
Right?
Subsist ended because the sos didn't think it was gonna generate money anymore.
It's not some grand conspiracy.
It just looks bad to say your favorite show is broke but the viewership was there.
(34:06):
All the fans were so invested,
you know,
that doesn't directly translate.
Come on Matt,
please,
please.
This isn't making sense to me anymore.
How do you know about Elizabeth?
Why was the show really canceled?
Where's Curtis Lowe Curtis?
He's on vacation,
right?
Drop it.
Let's have a drink.
(34:27):
And remember the fun days.
I can't,
I can't drop it.
Sure you can.
It's your choice,
isn't it?
It was my decision to send the plow.
What did you just say?
Isn't that what you said?
It's my choice.
Well,
I thought you didn't listen to the podcast.
I haven't.
(34:48):
Now,
how do you know about the death message,
death message?
Uh Are you talking about the hate mail?
Your fans are sending you but you're gas letting me,
you're making me feel like I'm the crazy one here.
I know.
I sound completely insane right now and I feel like you're doing it on purpose mate.
C BT has psychiatric help that you should still have access to.
(35:09):
I'm not crazy.
Right.
Great.
Yes,
I drove as fast as I could away from Matt atkins' House.
(35:30):
That last threat he made,
sent a cold shock through me again.
The same way I felt when I first heard the death message a week ago,
it felt like my whole body was numb.
I didn't even realize how fast I was going.
And what was the secret Lee?
Why does he think I'd remember that?
(35:53):
And that's the end of the recording.
It really does sound like a threat but maybe it's more of a warning.
Maybe he's trying to help you.
Do you really believe that?
You know what?
You're right?
Whenever my friends ask for a ride to work,
I make sure to give them cryptic threats.
It always helps.
No,
you're right.
I'm just saying it's an option.
Let's not jump to any conclusions.
Is the Elizabeth Pruitt stuff.
(36:14):
True.
That's the scariest part.
It is.
Is it possible that you did tell him about her?
Uh I've been drunk as hell before in bad places.
Emotionally spilled my guts,
all that sort of stuff.
But I've never mentioned Elizabeth Pruitt to anyone,
not my parents,
not Sonny,
not even Mao.
So How does Matt Atkins know about it?
(36:37):
I don't know.
Do you think he's in on whatever this is?
It's hard to tell what's his goal?
He says he doesn't even listen to podcasts.
It's not like he don't want to discredit your reputation or whatever the subsist specialists were saying.
Did you believe Matt that he hadn't heard the episodes?
I did?
(36:57):
But I also felt like he really believed,
I told him about Elizabeth and he says Curtis Lowe has been on vacation this whole time for over a year.
There was a one man army back during subsist,
right?
Yeah.
He was involved in every aspect of the show production,
budget,
casting,
art,
design,
editing the music,
everything.
(37:18):
It's hard to imagine a workhorse like Curtis Lowe taking a year long sabbatical.
Who is Lee the Secret Lee?
Yeah.
Is that a guy who worked on Subsist or something?
I,
I don't know anyone named Lee.
I don't know what,
who the secret Lee even is.
Hm Another question that we have no answers or clues to.
(37:40):
Wonderful.
At least none of them ended your death.
I almost forgot.
We got a very interesting message on the Google number.
We set up for the podcast.
We're going to want to hear this more interesting than vague threats and or mind reading,
possibly.
Uh Last time you mysteriously played a recording for me,
(38:00):
there was the sound of my own death.
Should,
should I brace myself?
Not that dramatic but maybe sit down anyway.
Hello.
Is this Ray Buchler?
Um,
my sister listens to your podcast and played it for me and I heard it too.
You need to call me back or I'm getting the police involved.
(38:27):
Well,
I wish I would have sat down for that.
She found us Jennifer Whitler,
the winner of the season 35.
That never happened.
It's time to find out what she has to do with this before.
It's too late.
(39:01):
Subsist.
A real podcast will return in two weeks,
continue the investigation on Patreon with exclusive bonus episodes and more links in the show notes.
To commemorate the new year.
I just wanted to give a shout out RT Crhtdu Bs D OS PB K.
Now on to business,
the fan vote has finally come in.
Sonny.
We now have the results of who the fans think should have won season 35.
Did they like Jennifer Whitler as our winner or did they think Riley o'connor should have won our runner up.
(00:47):
They voted for Riley for sure,
they always have a problem with who wins.
Subsist.
What do you mean every damn time?
They think they know better than how it went down.
How can you dispute who won?
Think about it?
They won.
They obviously did everything right?
Because it's fun.
I don't know.
There's still all these variables for us to look at and ask what if Riley had played her.
(01:07):
I on Leo instead you're having fun.
Re but there are a lot of people out there that are going to harass Jennifer because she won and it's unacceptable.
First of all,
I'm not an apologist.
Let me start there.
It's never OK to harass anyone,
but I don't want to generalize the whole audience here.
I'm not,
I'm just saying the people that do treat former players like their toys.
(01:28):
They think that they get to decide the story like it's a video game.
There's even fan fiction.
Oh God.
If it's anything like my immortal,
I don't even want to hear the results Jennifer won.
That's it.
We can talk about the things she did to win.
But polls like these are just an excuse for people to be assholes.
What's getting to you,
man?
(01:49):
I'm,
I'm tired of people playing by rules.
They made up and expecting everyone to follow them.
I'm sick of walking an invisible tightrope.
This was a long season.
Need to look into fan fiction.
All right.
Looking at fan fiction.
Next,
(02:10):
we found a new recording that was my old partner,
Sonny going on a rant and that was me,
Ray Bugler talking about a season of Subsist that never happened.
Subsist was a show that was canceled over five years ago.
I used to do a podcast covering it,
but when they ended things so did I.
Two weeks ago,
I found an episode that I didn't record.
(02:30):
If you haven't,
you should listen to the first episode before proceeding.
We also found an audio recording of my death that's due to take place in eight weeks on May 13th.
Trisha.
My producer found another episode on the drive this weekend.
So we've been listening to it nonstop trying to find any clue to.
(02:52):
I don't even know to stop my death.
Figure out how these are being made.
How did it come from the future?
How are they getting to my drive?
What happened to subsist?
What happened to what happened to me?
I'm Re Buchler and this is Subsist,
a real podcast.
(03:42):
Hi.
How can I assist you today?
Yeah,
I was wondering if I could talk to Curtiss Lowe.
Do you have an appointment?
I don't do actually hold on.
So,
uh,
how long have you been working for C BT?
A couple of years?
I got this job when I got my new phone.
The 12,
well,
they're on twelves now.
(04:04):
I thought the eight was coming out soon.
Haven't been online much.
I haven't been anywhere much.
I guess it looks like he isn't in today.
Are you sure you had an appointment?
I,
uh,
must have gotten the days wrong or he did.
Actually,
it,
Curtis can be like that.
Can we,
uh,
just reschedule it?
(04:24):
I'd be glad to.
Let's just,
huh?
It looks like he hasn't taken appointments in over a year.
Huh?
Got some,
uh,
a little more late for that meeting than I thought.
When was your appointment?
Exactly.
If you could just tell them that stop by.
That'd be great.
(04:46):
What was the name?
What did you say?
What was the name?
Just tell Curtis to answer the phone till now.
How are you holding up?
It feels like every second is critical but we're not getting anywhere.
(05:08):
Sonny won't help.
Not sure what he could do.
Anyway,
Jennifer Whitler,
our Phantom winner doesn't seem to exist outside of these podcasts.
And Curtis Lowe,
former host and producer,
subsist,
I can't even figure out a way to get a hold of him.
Well,
I got everything compiled for this,
like you asked.
So it's ready.
I put out a call to the audience to send in their theories and ideas on our phone number.
(05:30):
Give me some leads to follow because I'm not gonna lie.
I had no idea where to go next.
You might want to listen to them first before recording.
This is Cameron calling from Arizona.
You have one unheard message.
Yo,
Ray,
how's it going?
(05:51):
I used to listen to every episode.
I was doing landscaping.
So I had a lot of time to kill.
I like your new show though.
They're shorter than they used to be.
That's really my only complaint.
I think you should force Sonny back into the show somehow.
It's not right that he left you high and dry the way he did.
What happened when he called?
What did you guys talk about?
(06:12):
Thank you,
Cameron.
You're the reason we do this show.
OK.
That is definitely not true.
You're doing this for you.
Yeah,
but I wanna document this.
What if this happened to someone else and they think they're alone.
I never considered that.
I wonder if this is contagious.
Cameron Sonny asked that our conversation remain private.
So I stopped the recording to honor his wishes.
(06:33):
And that's that all Tricia who's next?
All right.
We have a gentleman from South Dakota named,
whatever you'll hear it.
OK.
It can't be that bad.
Great.
This is still on.
If you thought about a government experiment,
you can see what you've been up to the past five years.
I'll bet,
man.
And I'd easily put two K on you and Sony haven't been kidnapped and experimented on.
(06:58):
It happens all the time.
You get put into a bunker for two years.
They force ideas into your brain with LSD and subliminal messaging.
Then they see what you do.
You probably did make those podcasts,
but the brainwashing didn't stick suppress memories.
Your brain won't let you remember the drama anyway.
Good luck.
It's great to see someone join the fight.
See you on the front line,
brother Stallone.
(07:19):
You should definitely check your colr and here you go.
Brother next up is,
oh,
come on.
What are the odds?
What,
who's the next caller?
Your caller from New Jersey.
Trish.
If you wanted to leave me some fan mail,
you could have just.
Hi Ray.
(07:40):
This is Trish.
We met once during a meet and greet thing.
A couple of years after you won.
I know you're trying to get in contact with Curtis Lowe.
Have you tried just going to C BT or to his house or something?
Don't stalk him but you know,
wait for him or whatever.
(08:03):
That's not a bad idea.
Trish.
Trisha likes what Trish has to say.
Surprise,
surprise.
You're disagreeing with her because you're both Trish.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny.
Same name you live in L A,
right where the C BT building is?
Why don't you just stop in and try to ambush Curtis?
You really think that'll work.
No.
But what else are we gonna do?
Keep taking calls from crazy people.
(08:30):
So I took the advice of Trish New Jersey.
Trish to visit Curtis Lowe at C BT,
but he hasn't been there in over a year.
So what is Curtis Lowe up to?
It's becoming apparent to me that the mysterious cancellation of the show has something to do with the mysterious podcasts.
Let's really cover the cancellation.
(08:52):
If we get all our information organized,
we might be able to see something we didn't before.
Good point.
Ok.
It's spring 2015 season,
34 is airing.
Subsist had permanently settled in Guam.
The location of the original season in the 1st 30 seasons.
Subsist had moved all around the world.
Like I said before I played in the Dominican Republic,
(09:14):
not quite as exotic as some other locations,
but subsist had gotten a nice kick back from the government in Guam,
which is the US territory with a nice tax break.
They settled there,
built a production headquarters and kept on going.
They put their players on Tung beach,
a quiet beach.
They used to see some tourism still does in the off season.
The finale,
(09:34):
this season 34 rolls around in May 2015.
What do you wanna do?
Another tick of that May?
It's tied together.
The recording where I die it's in May.
Hold on.
Tell me what,
oh Subsist would air twice a year once in the fall and once in the spring,
(09:55):
the finale for the spring season would always air in May,
whatever is gonna happen,
this May is tied to subsist.
It's the same date as the finale would have been.
That sounds like more than a coincidence.
Someone's gonna kill me on the night of the finale.
Tired of eating out.
(10:16):
I know after hours of sifting through thousands of files,
the last thing I wanna do is find a recipe online,
go grocery shopping and then cook with red apron.
Half the battle's done with a gourmet selection of the finest and freshest meats and produce.
Red Apron provides an easy to eat and prepare meal.
Last night,
I had smoked salmon and wild rice.
It was filling and delicious.
(10:36):
I don't think I'll ever go without red Apron again and you shouldn't either.
I know I'll never go back.
We have another connective thread.
It doesn't get us any closer to where we were,
but we know a bit more about whoever's planning this or whatever is happening.
(10:56):
Are you going to continue with the cancellation thing or are we moving on?
We need to No,
no,
no,
you're right.
Let's stay on track.
Let's finish this and we'll get back to the finale thing soon.
Ok.
So the finale for season 34 rolls around,
one thing you have to know about season 34 is that it wasn't very popular.
The cast wasn't well liked.
Fans had grown tired of Guam and wanted to go back to rotating locations.
(11:18):
The eventual winner,
Raul Seneca wasn't a well liked winner.
Well,
it wasn't really his fault.
The editing was really bad and they didn't give a good story to explain his strategy.
The truth is he was a bit of a villain but the editors were so heavy handed way too many details.
Focus old habits,
sorry,
right?
Every subsist finale ends in the terminal judgment where the final two players are judged by the Shadow Council.
(11:41):
The last seven or so players voted out,
they make their case and the Shadow Council votes on who wins and the finale ends.
Then the convocation begins.
Uh It's like a reunion show or something except it happens right after the finale,
Curtis Lowe brings out the ballots and we see who wins.
Then he does a little segment,
talks to the players,
chats with the live audience.
(12:03):
I was there that night.
I remember he got on stage and that's when he started.
I can just play the episode.
I don't think anyone is going to hit us with AC and D at this point.
(12:23):
J well,
it's been quite the season season.
(12:45):
34.
Can you believe it?
I never thought in my wildest dreams that this would be a 16 year journey.
34 seasons,
it's more than I ever deserved.
And I'm so glad to be the one to take the journey with you.
But like every subsist season,
every journey ends.
And I'm sad to announce that subsist will not be returning this fall.
(13:09):
Every run has a terminal judgment and we've reached ours.
But I don't want this to be sad.
This is good.
We've had such a beautiful time together and we did really wonderful things here,
really important things and we couldn't have done it without all of you out there.
America,
the world subsist is a global phenomenon.
(13:32):
It continues all across the planet.
And as long as you're all alive,
subsisting it'll never die.
Subsist is forever.
But let's not dwell on that.
Let's get to the fan favorite.
(13:58):
The articles hit the next day and nobody could believe it subsist had been on a slow but steady decline in terms of ratings.
But the world was changing from basic cable to different forms of viewership.
And C BT knew that other institutions were changing expectations.
They've gained control of the budget settled in Guam helped a lot and other small stuff like lower scale art direction,
(14:19):
smaller crews.
Sure season 34 wasn't well received,
but it was like,
it was almost like Curtis and C BT heard the outcries against the season and decided that we get what we deserve.
If we're crying about how bad it is,
why not show us how bad it can really get and cancel the whole thing.
Almost like we spoke it into existence.
(14:43):
The days after that were weird.
There was absolutely no word coming out of C BT about the decision other than it was legitimate,
the only leaky pipe was the production designer Matt Atkins.
In an interview with Sonia Orbison,
he stated there's a black curtain around every show.
(15:04):
The audience never really knows what's going on in the dark.
You wouldn't believe how it all went down.
He hasn't spoken to the public since we recorded a few more episodes for re owns the internet.
But it became clear we just had nothing to talk about.
We were doing a podcast about a canceled show.
What was there to cover?
We tried talking about other reality shows like Animal Farm and even movies,
(15:27):
but it just wasn't the same with less and less to talk about.
I wondered if me and Sonny were still friends or just coworkers because Sonny had other ambitions.
He was a musician first.
Actually,
he took a detour to do podcasting with me,
but that wasn't his thing.
It was mine.
And after that,
(15:52):
this cobb salad I've ever had in my life and you can experience it too when you visit green apron details in the description All right.
All right.
What do you rate season 35?
Where does it land?
I've done quite the mathematical equation to deliver an outcome.
The hypotenuse,
uh,
quantifies,
uh,
I'm out of big words.
It's 1515 out of 35.
(16:14):
Wow,
that's high.
Yeah,
I like Jennifer.
It was a good cast.
I'm not as upset about the twists and winner,
like the internet is.
Where do you have it?
I,
it's weird during the season as I was watching an episode to episode,
I actually liked it more but the more I thought about it after and reading reactions and breakdowns of the season,
(16:36):
the less I did re,
that's like staring at a painting too hard.
You're missing the picture because you're staring at the brushstrokes,
the trees and a missing forest,
blah,
blah,
blah.
What do you mean?
Are you saying?
I studied the season too hard.
It's the internet.
It poisons everything,
man.
You liked it?
They didn't and a Mob can be really convincing.
(16:56):
Why are you letting them influence your decision?
I don't know if that's what's happening or how I'd say it.
It's not like I'm brainwashed to hate season 35.
That's exactly what someone who's brainwashed would say.
But no,
really.
This is how it goes.
A season plays out the internet talks and whatever they say becomes gospel.
A good player turns out to be horrible.
(17:17):
A bad season is actually good.
An important twist becomes meaningless and reverse it all next season.
I don't know what I'm supposed to do about the lack of objective truth in the world.
You got to stop thinking about true and false.
There's only what people want to believe and what they'll say to make you believe it.
(17:41):
Hey,
do you want to do an interview with Kira Townsend?
Kira Townsend?
Yeah.
What is that weird?
Am I getting emails from someone who's dead or something?
No,
no,
it's,
it's just that I only interviewed her once back when I first started.
Was she too busy or just didn't care about stepsister anymore?
Like a lot of people should.
(18:03):
No.
Kras just not involved.
She was a runner up during season 19 and after that,
she just didn't have much love for Subsist.
It was one of those things that was just an oddity in her life.
Not a focal point.
So,
no.
Oh,
yes.
Schedule that interview.
If Kira is reaching out now,
it really can't be because of subsist.
It's because of whatever this is.
She said she can talk next month in the meantime.
(18:25):
He said he wanted to talk to Matt Atkins.
Oh,
yeah.
But that's impossible.
But what if it wasn't,
what I'd kill to talk to Matt Atkins.
All right.
Take that went to the bank.
Then you didn't find him.
You're messing with me.
He said he's willing to talk,
but it has to be in person and he lives in Eureka which is like really far north in California,
(18:48):
like really far north.
Long drive.
It is.
But before that the specialists want to bring you on,
I knew this was coming.
Do you,
do you think I'm ready?
Oh,
no,
definitely.
No.
Yeah,
that's what I thought.
All right,
let's connect to them.
(19:13):
Subsist specialists.
Paul and Alyssa are back and we are joined today by the one,
the only Ray Buchler.
It's weird being on this end of the interview for once.
Like,
are you gonna start speaking in tongues because of the mix up is parcel tongue real?
You know,
I wouldn't mind talking to Snakes.
Ray is here to talk about his new podcast.
(19:34):
Subsist,
a real podcast.
We just listened to a clip from one of his mysterious episodes.
I got cut to the chase.
Is this a giant hoax?
Did you actually listen to the first episode?
I listened to the trailer and I've been meaning to finish the first episode.
But as I listened to it,
is it supposed to be like fan fiction?
(19:54):
No,
no,
no,
this is real.
I mean,
it's literally in the title Alyssa.
This is really happening to me.
Wow.
So you're saying that you really are receiving mystery podcast episodes that you have no control over and show an alternate version of you.
Well,
alternate universes are really unlikely according to a friend of a,
of a friend,
(20:15):
if you can see if you can hear the air quotes.
Yeah.
But that's what you're saying.
This is just really crazy considering your season.
My season.
You've probably heard it 100 times.
But people wonder what would have happened if you lost that final challenge.
If you don't win the invulnerability artifact,
you don't go to terminal judgment and win the game.
(20:36):
It's just one of those seasons.
People ask questions about a lot.
Paul thinks you would have gotten voted out.
I mean,
you can't deny it re you would have lost Dominican Republic no matter what.
If you didn't win that thing,
then do you go on to podcasts?
Does anyone listen,
are you able to get the guests?
You do?
It's one of those chaos theory things or is it string theory?
(20:57):
I don't know science.
It's why I stick to subsist.
In the latest episode.
We found Sonny suggests that the internet can change fact by wanting something enough.
Wow.
So it's because the internet,
is there a physics theory behind that or what if someone wanted you to lose so badly that they are in the process of changing everyone's minds that you did lose and who would want that?
(21:22):
I don't know but think about it.
No,
seriously.
Think about it.
Someone is releasing these to trick all of us because you know what happens next?
Someone will say rumor has it that Rey actually lost Dominican Republic and that rumor will mutate and these obscure podcasts will get brought up like evidence like in new Guinea season 26 everyone thinks Curtiss Lowe fixed the final three because a vote looked wonky.
(21:55):
Everyone became convinced that Curtis had fixed it to get the winner he wanted.
Right.
So this is someone trying to convince the world that Ray Buchler didn't win but was given it by production or something.
But why,
why I don't know,
have any enemies,
any rival podcasters that you crushed on your way to the top besides us.
(22:16):
Of course,
I didn't crush you.
We even did episodes together.
I'm kidding.
But seriously enemies got me.
Maybe someone wanted to tarnish your legacy.
They hear this and think you're a liar or just trying to get attention.
That's not what I'm doing though,
isn't it though?
You're making a podcast about the experience.
So you want someone to hear.
(22:38):
You came on our show to talk about it.
So you want our audience to listen too?
No,
I want it as public record just in case in case something happens to you,
you know,
you wouldn't be laughing if you listened to the first episode.
It's not funny what happened.
What did I miss?
Someone made a recording of re being attacked or something?
(22:59):
It ends with him screaming and it's supposed to happen in four months.
I wanted my recordings out there in case anyone else has experienced something similar to reach out.
Sure.
Sure.
While drawing a lot of downloads on Apple and Spotify.
See you're the one trying to create a narrative about my motivations.
I'm just exploring the option.
(23:19):
You know,
Paul.
It would make sense if it was you,
wouldn't it?
Whoa What's that supposed to mean?
Think about it.
No.
Really.
Think about it.
Paul?
You said it yourself that I crushed you on my way to the top.
I'm sorry.
People like listening to me more than you.
You've been trying to discredit me since we started recording and you're trying to change the story.
I think we should calm down.
(23:39):
How'd you do it,
Paul?
How'd you fake our voices?
I mean,
I guess we know why now jealousy,
you wish subsist specialists was as popular as Ray owns the internet was on its worst day.
See,
I can fabricate motivations too.
Yeah,
I'm jealous of your success Ray.
But at least I didn't dump my girlfriend over a reality TV show you played a decade ago.
(24:07):
No one else is that much of an asshole?
I knew the Subsist specialist thing wasn't gonna go well.
And since it came out reviews from my first episode have been growing more negative.
(24:28):
I even got some hate mail and a death threat.
Go on.
Read what it says.
Why do I have to read it?
Because it'll be funnier when you do it.
Deadpan gray.
(24:48):
You're like everyone in the media,
you lie and whore yourself out to get more ratings.
I used to love your show,
but now I can't bear to see you like this.
I think about how much you used to care about.
Subsist and now you're just praying off its corpse like a vulture.
And the only way to deal with vultures is a strong rifle and steady aim.
(25:10):
There's a lot of profanity and slurs removed as well as a cleaned up grammar.
Use the wrong form of praying.
I'm imagining you praying over a pile of subsist DVD cases and old buffs.
Hey,
I still own those original seasons of Subsist on tape had saw my grandma from recording the world series over him.
(25:31):
What was that?
It's my email notification.
This guy named Martin keeps emailing me.
It sounds like some scientologist,
rhetoric or something.
I keep marking it as spam but it keeps coming through at this point.
Maybe we should join.
It's got to be more normal than this.
(25:53):
I'm driving to Eureka now to see Matt Atkins.
He was the production designer for every season of Subsist.
He was there from day one until the end with Curtis Lowe.
I've got a portable recording device.
I'm gonna do some field recording for our conversation.
When I played,
we saw a bit of Matt.
He'd be doing a challenge where I'd have to balance or something and he'd ask how the wood we were standing on felt.
(26:17):
He was asking if it hurt.
I was never very good at the challenges.
That's why I was such a surprise.
I won the last one.
But I told him that day that it hurt,
my foot was already sore early on in the challenge.
All he said was good.
(26:49):
Matt lives in a really nice house right on the coast.
I don't know if he was technically in Eureka,
but it was the biggest nearby town.
It's one of those houses that looks like it belongs in Iceland.
You know,
the whole back wall is glass facing the ocean.
You could hear the waves crashing outside.
It was that close.
(27:09):
Mao is a bit like the Pacific ocean.
It looks inviting.
You think it's gonna be warm?
But you're always shocked by how cold it turns out to be Ray Beechler.
(27:39):
It's been a long time.
Where have you been?
I was traveling for a while,
you know,
wanted a break from the entertainment world.
I needed some,
uh,
needed some privacy.
Yeah,
I'm a private guy too.
I like to work.
Everything else that comes with the entertainment world doesn't interest me.
(28:00):
Oh,
I know the feeling I've been getting nasty messages from fans.
Yeah.
Over your season.
No.
No.
My new podcast.
Uh,
it's the reason I wanted to talk to you actually.
Ah,
sorry,
mate.
Don't listen to podcasts.
Ah,
can't seem to focus on them when I'm doing something and it feels like a waste to just sit on the couch and listen,
(28:24):
you know,
so sorry,
I haven't listened to yours yet.
Not even when you're doing carpentry stuff.
That's a light hours of silence.
Matt.
Nah.
Mate.
Got music on,
usually helps me focus.
How'd you get your gig on some sister Matt?
Is that what we're doing here?
An interview?
I thought this might just be two friends catching up.
(28:45):
Were we really friends?
As I remember it,
the few interactions we had were all business.
That's strange.
Ray.
Really strange.
(29:05):
I remember a lot of talks we had,
especially after the season ended.
We've never had a long chat now just being insulting mate.
You told me your plans to go into podcasting way back then.
You even told me why you wanted to start drink.
Uh Yeah.
(29:26):
No,
thanks.
Not a request.
This doesn't sound familiar.
I don't know what you're talking.
Yeah,
man.
Elizabeth Pruitt.
I still remember Elizabeth Pruitt.
Now,
how do you know about Elizabeth Pruitt?
(29:59):
I was always an entertainer growing up.
I guess when you aren't good looking,
you aren't athletic.
You're not that smart.
You gotta find something.
You're either the weird kid.
Yeah.
You're either the weird kid into collecting rocks or you'd be the class clown.
I wanted to be an actor.
Steve Martin is my hero as a kid.
Stuff like the jerk or dirty Ron scoundrels.
(30:20):
I loved it.
I want to be just like him.
I was always telling jokes or stories and trying to get people to laugh.
They didn't always.
But when they did,
I held on to it,
I always remembered who laughed and who didn't.
Elizabeth Pruitt was someone who never laughed.
We went to the same schools from second grade until senior year.
(30:42):
We'd always known each other but we were in different hemispheres.
It was junior year in some English class or language,
arts,
whatever it was called.
We were reading a Tale Of Two Cities or it might have been another Dickens book.
I honestly can't keep them straight.
And it was a long time ago,
I was going on a spiel about having to read books like this.
No one reads a Tale of Two Cities outside of school.
You don't see anyone reading this for fun.
(31:03):
A lame stand aback precursor.
I could tell my audience wasn't into it.
People in class wanted me to shut up already and Elizabeth Pruitt made sure to let me know Rey,
nobody cares,
nobody is ever going to care about what you have to say.
I've never told anyone this.
(31:24):
But that was one of the reasons I even applied to subsist.
A couple of years later,
I made an application video and submitted it online.
And after I won,
I started a podcast,
I looked up Elizabeth Pruitt.
She's managing a hair salon now,
one of the really nice ones,
she looks successful.
She's never come around to apologize.
(31:45):
She never remembers me.
She probably doesn't even remember saying that at all.
We're grown up now.
So she probably apologized for being a rude teenager and think I'm weird for even remembering it,
but I never forgot what she said.
And honestly,
I always used it to push myself.
I used it as motivation when I was in trouble and subsist on the verge of getting voted out.
(32:09):
I'd remember that Elizabeth said no one cared about what I have to say.
So I made sure people cared about what I said.
My game was predicated on my ability to convince people to lie to them and trick them into voting out people that could have helped them.
I isolated them.
I made them rely on me and then I cut them off one by one.
And every time I was imagining it was Elizabeth.
(32:34):
Now,
I'm not obsessed with her.
I don't check her social media ever or anything like that.
It's just that sting that remained in my soul over a decade later because I made sure my voice was heard and that I'd never be forgotten again,
but I never told Matt Atkins any of that.
(33:01):
Alright.
I'll ask again,
how do you know about Elizabeth Pruitt Ray?
I'm telling you,
we talked about this,
the wrap party after you won.
We were drinking and talking about ambitions.
I told you I wanted to build my own house and you said you wanted to create a podcast to prove Elizabeth Pruitt wrong.
I've never told anyone about her.
(33:22):
Maybe you had more to drink than you thought and you were malnourished.
Alcohol probably hit you harder than you thought it.
Tell me what's the black curtain in that interview you did with Sonia?
You said there was a black curtain around every show and that the audience never had an idea what was going on behind the scenes,
right?
My job just got axed.
I was bitter.
(33:43):
You're in the industry.
You know what I'm talking about?
Every show is a mess,
barely holding together anything.
I don't think that's what you meant.
Somebody threw your nd A back in your face,
didn't they?
Right?
Subsist ended because the sos didn't think it was gonna generate money anymore.
It's not some grand conspiracy.
It just looks bad to say your favorite show is broke but the viewership was there.
(34:06):
All the fans were so invested,
you know,
that doesn't directly translate.
Come on Matt,
please,
please.
This isn't making sense to me anymore.
How do you know about Elizabeth?
Why was the show really canceled?
Where's Curtis Lowe Curtis?
He's on vacation,
right?
Drop it.
Let's have a drink.
(34:27):
And remember the fun days.
I can't,
I can't drop it.
Sure you can.
It's your choice,
isn't it?
It was my decision to send the plow.
What did you just say?
Isn't that what you said?
It's my choice.
Well,
I thought you didn't listen to the podcast.
I haven't.
(34:48):
Now,
how do you know about the death message,
death message?
Uh Are you talking about the hate mail?
Your fans are sending you but you're gas letting me,
you're making me feel like I'm the crazy one here.
I know.
I sound completely insane right now and I feel like you're doing it on purpose mate.
C BT has psychiatric help that you should still have access to.
(35:09):
I'm not crazy.
Right.
Great.
Yes,
I drove as fast as I could away from Matt atkins' House.
(35:30):
That last threat he made,
sent a cold shock through me again.
The same way I felt when I first heard the death message a week ago,
it felt like my whole body was numb.
I didn't even realize how fast I was going.
And what was the secret Lee?
Why does he think I'd remember that?
(35:53):
And that's the end of the recording.
It really does sound like a threat but maybe it's more of a warning.
Maybe he's trying to help you.
Do you really believe that?
You know what?
You're right?
Whenever my friends ask for a ride to work,
I make sure to give them cryptic threats.
It always helps.
No,
you're right.
I'm just saying it's an option.
Let's not jump to any conclusions.
Is the Elizabeth Pruitt stuff.
(36:14):
True.
That's the scariest part.
It is.
Is it possible that you did tell him about her?
Uh I've been drunk as hell before in bad places.
Emotionally spilled my guts,
all that sort of stuff.
But I've never mentioned Elizabeth Pruitt to anyone,
not my parents,
not Sonny,
not even Mao.
So How does Matt Atkins know about it?
(36:37):
I don't know.
Do you think he's in on whatever this is?
It's hard to tell what's his goal?
He says he doesn't even listen to podcasts.
It's not like he don't want to discredit your reputation or whatever the subsist specialists were saying.
Did you believe Matt that he hadn't heard the episodes?
I did?
(36:57):
But I also felt like he really believed,
I told him about Elizabeth and he says Curtis Lowe has been on vacation this whole time for over a year.
There was a one man army back during subsist,
right?
Yeah.
He was involved in every aspect of the show production,
budget,
casting,
art,
design,
editing the music,
everything.
(37:18):
It's hard to imagine a workhorse like Curtis Lowe taking a year long sabbatical.
Who is Lee the Secret Lee?
Yeah.
Is that a guy who worked on Subsist or something?
I,
I don't know anyone named Lee.
I don't know what,
who the secret Lee even is.
Hm Another question that we have no answers or clues to.
(37:40):
Wonderful.
At least none of them ended your death.
I almost forgot.
We got a very interesting message on the Google number.
We set up for the podcast.
We're going to want to hear this more interesting than vague threats and or mind reading,
possibly.
Uh Last time you mysteriously played a recording for me,
(38:00):
there was the sound of my own death.
Should,
should I brace myself?
Not that dramatic but maybe sit down anyway.
Hello.
Is this Ray Buchler?
Um,
my sister listens to your podcast and played it for me and I heard it too.
You need to call me back or I'm getting the police involved.
(38:27):
Well,
I wish I would have sat down for that.
She found us Jennifer Whitler,
the winner of the season 35.
That never happened.
It's time to find out what she has to do with this before.
It's too late.
(39:01):
Subsist.
A real podcast will return in two weeks,
continue the investigation on Patreon with exclusive bonus episodes and more links in the show notes.
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