April 3, 2025 • 38 mins
In this Success, Secrets, and Stories podcast, John and Greg are interviewing Ted Santos.
What if the key to transforming both your leadership and relationships lies in understanding conflict at its root? Ted Santos, founder and CEO of Turnaround Investment Partners and author of "Here's Why You Can't Find Love," reveals the staggering $300 billion cost of divorce to corporate America's productivity and offers a revolutionary framework for addressing personal and professional challenges.
Santos challenges conventional thinking with his provocative assertion that "love doesn't create a great relationship; love is a byproduct of a great relationship." Through compelling examples and personal stories, he demonstrates how developing self-awareness and conflict resolution skills can transform both boardrooms and bedrooms. The secret? Understanding that most conflicts arise not from external circumstances but from our unresolved internal triggers.
The conversation is fascinating as Santos explores his "disruptive leadership model," arguing that great leaders must intentionally create problems rather than solve them. Drawing inspiration from figures like Steve Jobs, he illustrates how pushing beyond comfort zones drives innovation and growth. "Either you disrupt yourself or you'll be disrupted by the marketplace," Santos warns, offering practical strategies for navigating change in a rapidly evolving world.
Perhaps most compelling is Santos's method for developing resilient teams by stretching people beyond their perceived limitations while providing unwavering support. Rather than giving step-by-step instructions, he advocates a Socratic approach that helps people build their problem-solving abilities—a technique he perfected while raising his siblings after losing his parents.
Ready to transform your approach to leadership, relationships, and personal growth? Contact Ted at tsantos@turnaroundip.com for a free 30-minute consultation, or find his book at Barnes & Noble and Amazon.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hello everyone and welcome to Success in Secrets
and Stories.
I'm your host, john Wondolowski, and I'm here with my co-host
and friend, greg Powell.
Greg, hey, everybody, we'regoing to have some fun.
We're going to have aninterview Today.
We're going to be talking inour author-to-author series on
stories with Ted Santos, and Tedis the founder and CEO of
(00:37):
Turnaround Investment Partners.
He's also written a book.
Here's why you Can't Find Love,and I think, ted, when we're
talking about the things thatyou've done, I'd like to start
with the book, because I findthe book a very interesting
starting point and gives aninteresting beginning of some of
(00:59):
the things that you're tryingto teach in your position and
how you're working with CEOs.
Maybe you can talk a little bitabout what inspired you to
write the book and the messagethat you're trying to get across
.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
First I want to say thank you for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here andI look forward to a very
engaging conversation, so thanksfor inviting me.
So the book Divorce Rate isOver 50% and I've had a concern.
In fact, a number of colleagueswould always ask me why are you
(01:34):
always worried about divorceand the impact on business?
And I'm like it can't be free,it has to be impacting us in
some way.
So Divorce Rate is somewherebetween between 53 and 55% in
the US, and when I starteddigging deeper, I did find
(01:54):
financial impact.
There's an organization calledLife Innovation and they said
corporate America is losing over$300 billion every year
workplace productivity, and it'sbecause of divorce.
When people are going throughdivorce, their productivity
drops between 50% and 75%.
And think about it If apercentage of your people are
(02:18):
headed for divorce, so they aredistracted, a percentage are in
the middle, and then there'sanother percentage that just
came out of it.
These are people who aredistracted.
A percentage are in the middle,and then there's another
percentage that just came out ofit.
These are people who aredistracted.
A close friend of mine took oneyear off from work so he could
recalibrate his life.
He had been married 20 years,and not everyone can do that.
(02:38):
Imagine if he couldn't affordto do that.
He would have clocked in everyday and he would have been
somewhere else getting paid.
So that's a problem.
And in addition to the $300billion to corporate America,
there's another $30 billion tothe taxpayer, because divorce
(03:00):
creates poverty, there's crime,social programs and there are
all these things.
And that bill is, you know,it's given to the taxpayer.
So divorce is not free and themore it seems, the more divorce
we have, the more people thinkdivorce is a solution yeah,
(03:22):
right, unfortunately, so, uh.
So you know, we, we, it'screating a mindset, it's
distracting us from work.
It's, you know it's, it'sadding crime, poverty, and it's
like this invisible hand that'ssucking kind of the life out of
society and and we're pretendingit's not happening.
So it's like, you know, a legis cut off and we're just
(03:44):
hopping around pretending thateverything's okay and we're
pretending it's not happening.
So it's like a leg is cut offand we're just hopping around
pretending that everything'sokay and we're going to run a
marathon while we're slittingour wrists and no one is talking
about it.
It's just sort of business asusual.
Now here's the interestingthing.
I looked at marriage rates.
This was a couple of years agoand marriage rates were at an
(04:06):
all-time low.
They first started recordingmarriage rates in 1865, and it's
never been this low since 1865.
Yeah, if you're in the affluentclass, marriage rates haven't
dropped.
So if you're in a corporation,the people around you, your
(04:28):
colleagues, most of them remainmarried.
It's the people under you whoare getting divorces.
So if I kind of give you apunchline if I'm integrating the
(04:49):
book with corporate America, Iwas reading that they asked many
executives what skill do youwish you were better at, and the
majority say conflictresolution.
I'm willing to bet if peoplewere better with conflict
resolution at work and at home,the divorce rate would drop.
So so I wrote the book and itthe book takes the reader on a
(05:10):
journey of transformation.
One is is better understandingself so that you can choose
someone who's compatible.
And, and they said, the reasonthe affluent have a low divorce
rate is they've done a betterjob of finding a compatible
partner.
And the partner is compatibleeven in the face of them losing
(05:33):
it all, sleeping out of a car,having to move to their parents'
home, and there's no split.
The spouse, the wife, doesn'tsay hey, I thought you were the
golden child.
And here we are, sleeping outof a car, I'm out.
The guy, robert Kiyosaki, whowrote the book Rich Dad, poor
(05:54):
Dad.
He's an example.
If someone just slept out ofhis car, his wife never left,
then the rest is history.
Look where they are.
So I'm asserting a lot of peopledon't have the skills to manage
the conflict, and often it'ssimple misunderstandings.
So if we looked at corporatesocial responsibility in a new
(06:18):
light, corporations couldtransform the culture of the
nation and reduce divorce Ifthey trained people to develop
the kinds of skills that arevaluable to the corporation.
And then people take those sameskills and competencies and a
mindset home and now people havea better home life, which means
(06:39):
they'll be more productive atwork and they're more productive
and fulfilling at work, workand they're going to have a
better home life.
It's self-perpetuate.
Right now, in theself-perpetuation is unhappy
home life, divorce.
Work sucks, I don't want to behere.
And what do you do when you havea big percentage of your people
who are not productive?
(07:00):
It affects profits.
You start laying people off.
And you don't lay off thepeople going through divorce,
you just randomly lay people off, which now will put pressure on
other households and push themtowards divorce.
And so was saying to you guysthe punchline of the book is
(07:27):
love doesn't create a greatrelationship, love is a
byproduct of a greatrelationship.
So if you develop the skillscompetencies, you have a better
inventory of self and you knowwho's compatible.
And you come together withsomeone you're with that
compatibility with the skillscompetencies, affinity is going
to grow out of it and and thenboom you, you have love comes
(07:52):
out of that.
I mean, you guys have anaffinity for one another, you
work together, you know thatyou're both confident in
something.
It's like, wow, you'reconfident in this, you're
confident in that.
You know we can do somethinghere.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Right and when I look at those kind of lessons, the
ability, I think, is the oneterm that I've heard so many
times in so many differentapplications.
It's communication and tounderstand the things that side
rail communication.
Conflict resolution is anotherexample of communication and if
(08:26):
you don't understand the thingsthat derail it, you know the
drama triangle, the things thatare associated with old things
that happened in the past thatyou're bringing up.
That happened 10 years ago,five years ago, and you're not
in the now.
You're not dealing with theissue that is present, that
you'll spend more time hashingsomething that you should have
put in the pocket and put away along time ago and you're not
(08:50):
getting.
You have to get to the point ofactually having the discussion
that needs to happen andsometimes it's understand.
The noise has to get out of theway.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Well, if you think of a marriage as being no
different than a merger andacquisition in corporate America
, two companies come together.
What's the new corporateculture?
Do we take one culture from oneorganization, do we amalgamate
the two, or do we just createsomething new that could have
(09:20):
never existed?
You know, I like the example ofhow do we get water, hydrogen
and oxygen come together andcreate something neither of them
could have done on their own.
So as human beings, we havethat capacity.
I mean, we are made of atoms,right?
So technically we have thatcapacity innate in us.
So when you have a marriage andtwo people come together, it's
(09:43):
like well, that's not the way myfamily did it.
Well, my family did it this wayand we did it the right way.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So yeah, we did it the right way.
There's there's a defininganswer, and your way is
ridiculous yeah.
Now they went from a 10 minutediscussion to you.
You're, you're tacking in atleast an hour.
That's going to be five years,they're going to say.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I remember when you said my way, you talked about my
family.
I know what you're trying to.
Oh, man, you know.
So we speak of conflictresolution.
What you don't hear is thesecret.
The essence of conflictresolution has nothing to do
with the other person or thesituation.
(10:31):
It's you being triggered andresolving your internal
conflicts that have not beenresolved.
So you are triggered and angrywith the person for something
they reminded you of or youassociate with, and now you're
(10:53):
fighting your own internalconflict and you think it's
about the other person.
But when you and this isgrammatically incorrect when you
untrigger your triggers, sowhen you unlearn your triggers
and how you arrive there now,you're not triggered and you can
actually be with the you meanwhen you say that, but you only
(11:16):
know to the extent it happenedin the past.
So basically, you are puttingyour past in the future and
reliving some past moment andtaking it out on that person,
(11:38):
and you have no capacity toresolve the conflict in you.
So you're fighting yourself andthe other person at the same
time.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Right, right.
I think one of the I've beenmarried for 50 years actually be
50 in December, and thank you.
And and the humor that I haveevery once in a while is I'll
answer the question and my wifewill say, yeah, but that's not
what you mean.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
It's like, oh well, what did I mean to say?
And all of a sudden it's likethat conversation went from five
minutes to you got another fiveto 10 minutes to get back to
point one because you're goingto have to answer that one.
That's implied and I thinkthat's the part for
communication in a businessenvironment for people to
(12:27):
understand there's there'snuances, there's there's so many
different things that go onwith the communication that the
the past, what you're trying toget going forward, being clear
in how you're messaging so thatyou have a clear message that
you're not making it up asyou're speaking.
No way to disrail a managementteam than having the manager or
(12:49):
the supervisor giving roughgeneralities of a goal.
You have to be somewhatspecific for people to know what
the goal is to be achieved.
There has to be some thoughtbehind the recommendations, has
to be some thought behind therecommendations.
You talk about another conceptin your role as a consultant and
(13:10):
you talk about how to bedisruptive to management and
taking that next step.
Greg, would you like to followup on what we were talking about
?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Thank you.
Yeah, when I saw the disruptiveleadership model and I think
about what that means inmarketing and things like that,
as far as the marketplace andyour share of the pie and what
have you, and we think about howto help first line supervisors
be better, and it seems like,well, if I disrupt everything,
if I make them crazy andreinvent things, how are they
going to be successful as youngleaders?
So how do you get them to besuccessful as young leaders with
(13:40):
that kind of a concept, thedisruptive?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
leadership model.
Sure, that's a mindset, andit's also especially if you are
a young leader or a supervisor.
One of the things that you wantto develop is communication,
where you're asking your peoplequestions about who they are,
the things they'd like toaccomplish, what they are good
(14:04):
at, what they would like to begood at, and then there are
going to be some transferableskills, and people don't always
know how to express that.
So when you can tease that out,what that does, it provides a
platform for you to be able tostretch and move people in
directions that they normallywouldn't consider, and it would
(14:26):
be, you know, the proverbialcomfort zone, right?
So you're moving people in adirection that may make them
uncomfortable, with you, as asupervisor, being able to
instill the confidence that, one, I'm here for you.
Two, I believe in you, right.
(14:47):
And three, I trust you, right,and if things go wrong, I'm
ultimately responsible.
I'm willing to.
You know, if it goes bad, it'son me.
So we're going to step out andwe're going to try something.
And then you have a team.
You start to have a team thatlooks like it's being led by
Steve Jobs, where he's askingyou to do things that you've
(15:08):
never done, and you do it.
And if you have breakdowns, youknow a good supervisor leader
will factor breakdowns, problems, disruption, disruption into
your plan, because they happen,especially when you want to
accomplish something you'venever done in the past and
(15:29):
you'll encounter things that youhaven't encountered, which adds
some complexity to it becauseyou may not always have the
skills and competencies.
I know, when you guys weretalking about optimism, that
instead of the default forhumans and the default is what's
wrong with me, what's wrongwith him or her or the whole
(15:51):
system, something's wrong withit we are trained to think that
way.
Believe it or not, whether it'sintentional or not, it's just a
default that we give to oneanother.
What's wrong with you?
How could you do that?
So we just automatically thinkit's not me, it's you that's
wrong?
Or just like saying your familydid it wrong, my family did it
(16:15):
right.
But when you can look at what'smissing I heard you guys talk
about that in the Optimismpodcast as opposed to looking at
what's wrong, we have a gap.
Here's where we are, here'swhere we're committed to going.
Real power is in the gap.
How do you manage and navigatenot only yourself, how do you
(16:51):
navigate a team through that gapin the face of them, saying we
don't know how to do this.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
So, ted, I would add, or maybe kind of dovetail, some
things John's talked a lotabout've talked about, and
that's change, just the wholeconcept of recognizing things
are not going to stay static,they're not going to never be
different.
How do you manage change and adisruptive approach would tell
you get ready, because we're not, we're not going back to the
old way necessarily.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
We're going to do something different and get
their minds ready for that youknow that's an important
conversation to have in anyorganization, because do you
guys know one of the major signsthat a company is in trouble?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
No.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Aside from the stock price.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
They have no R&D or no, in no way to reinvent
themselves definitely can be aproblem, but one of the biggest
problems that uh foretells acompany's going to be in trouble
is they are doing very well ohyeah, right, let's see if it
ain't broke, don't fix it.
Everything's fine where?
(18:07):
Where, hey man, we maketypewriters?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
okay, and everyone loves our typewriters man yeah,
we got the best typewriter inthis in the entire world, did
you guys?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
know.
So we have on our or a keyboardthe Q-W-E-R-T-Y right, right,
yep, qwerty, yep.
I think it was in the 1930sSomeone reconfigured the keys to
be 20% more efficient so youwould type faster.
But everyone they had alreadytrained all the secretaries back
(18:41):
then and they said, oh, that'sgoing to require too much
training.
So this was the dominant design, just, we'll leave it as it is.
So the typewriter companieswere coming up with all kinds of
ways to be more efficient orbetter typewriters, and then
some little company created thiselectric typewriter and they
said get away, we're working toohard.
And then IBM bought theelectric typewriter.
(19:03):
And then IBM made thetransition to computers and we
don't hear about typewritercompanies, you know.
And then ibm made thetransition to computers and we
don't hear about typewritercompanies anymore because they
were doing well.
They were, life was good, theywere complacent.
What do we have to do?
Just make it.
We'll add another feature,another benefit, and that that
is a sign you're doing well.
(19:23):
You're in trouble.
And we have this kind ofdefault in what I would call the
human paradigm, which is changeis hard, and people have bought
that as though it's a fact oflife.
Change is hard and I bet I'mwilling to bet neither of you
(19:44):
were wearing the same clothesyesterday that you're wearing
today, so you changed yourclothes.
People do that with no problem.
Right Every seven years, everycell in our body changes.
So we're technically designedfor change and transformation.
But someone created thisconversation that people bought
(20:04):
into and never questioned, whichis you know, change is hard.
We just can't.
No, you can't expect that fromme.
It's going to take a long time.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
I was calling a vendor of mine that was a mover
and we were constantly changing.
We were making departmentchanges, we were growing and
shrinking and they would movethe department.
And then I'm calling them backtwo weeks later and we're moving
the department to another space.
There was another approach interms of R&D and constantly
(20:40):
fluid, and they kept on sayingyou're wasting a lot of money,
can't they stay in the same seat?
It's in the same building.
And I kept on saying no know,you're wasting a lot of money,
can't they stay in the same seat?
It's in the same building.
And I kept on saying no, wehave to keep on going.
They sent me a little pictureframe with the terms that I
would always say at the end ofevery discussion Change is good,
it's what we're doing, it's ina dynamic company that you're
(21:06):
right we're doing.
It's in a dynamic company.
That you're right.
If people understand change aspart of their culture, they have
to embrace it.
Then you're going to see anorganization that grows.
I think you at a CEO level oftraining and consulting people.
If that energy isn't there forchange, you're probably telling
them that there's ways to try tochange yourself, change the
(21:29):
organization.
But if you don't, you're goingto close doors.
I'm sure that doesn't go oververy well either.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, when you're speaking, I'm thinking of Navy
SEALs.
Do you guys have any idea howmuch the United States
government invests into one NavySEAL?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I'm sure it's an outlandish number Two million
dollars.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Those guys are trained to be able to navigate
and manage chaos to accomplishtheir mission in the face of
anything.
So what?
I'm and I've never been a NavySEAL.
I've met some, but I and mostpeople have said to me oh, all
(22:11):
they're doing with Navy SEALtraining is they're just
breaking them down andbrainwashing them.
And I'm like no, it's actually.
They are disrupting the waythey already think, the actions
they take and what they believeis possible or impossible, and
they support them to breakthrough their limiting beliefs.
(22:35):
So when you train, when youbuild a culture like that and it
has to start with the CEO whenyou build that kind of culture,
you are able to shift on a dime.
So the economy changed, thecompetitive landscape changed.
(22:55):
So not only can we manage thosechanges, we can also lead them.
So, instead of waiting andbeing reactive, we can drive it
and force the marketplace, so wecan disrupt ourselves and then
disrupt the marketplace.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
So COVID taught us a lot in terms of change.
I remember I was in thehospital side and at one point
they said well, we can't havecomputers actually giving
doctors visits.
They have to see someone inorder for our systems to work.
We don't have the capacity orthe capability to bring doctors
(23:36):
into a house so that they canhave an appointment.
Covid hit All of a sudden.
It happened in everyapplication.
Every doctor had the vehicle inorder to pull it off and it was
instant and they were askingfor that for decades.
And all of a sudden they founda way to get it done because
(23:57):
there wasn't any other choice.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Very interesting, right.
I think COVID had a profoundimpact and I'm not sure if we
are reaping all the benefits ofthat.
I mean, I have thoughts at avery, very high level.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
But yeah, covid showed us something and I've
been talking about it for about20 years, and so, anyway, yeah,
so if you were to try tosummarize some of the messages
that you would expect to hearfrom a supervisor, a manager, to
(24:37):
understand how to changeculture and how to embrace a
changed culture, what would thataddress sound like?
What would be the core messagefor them to understand, that
they need to implement, to bringto their employees?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So, as a supervisor, when I was saying initially,
have conversations with them andunderstand their capacity and
what they are committed to inthe future, you really need to
take a stand.
You really need to take a stand.
(25:11):
It's you taking a stand foryour people and standing for
them more than they may knowthey can do.
So your job is to pull more outof people than they know how to
pull out of themselves, and onetactical way to do that is when
you have a good idea as to whothey are, what they're capable
of and some of their tangentialskills and competencies.
(25:33):
You can ask them to do thingsthat you know they don't know
how to do and they'll fail at it, but you have to be okay with
them failing because they aretraining, they are learning, but
you have to be okay with themfailing because they are
training, they are learning, andthe fact that you are there to
support them will create a verystrong trusting bond between the
(25:56):
two of you and they're morelikely when you ask them to do
the impossible, they'll justtake it on because they know
they have your support and if itgoes wrong, you're going to be
(26:19):
accountable for it.
So that's something that'sreally important and I'm the
oldest of four.
So imagine I'm 21, my brother's19 and my sisters are 12 and 16
.
So my brother's on a full ridefootball scholarship.
I take him off to college andeven though my sisters I had
(26:44):
them live with my father'ssister and I still needed them
to do things for me.
My parents had a house, theyhad property, it was a whole
estate, and so I would ask mysisters to do things and I knew
they didn't know how to do it.
I knew they were going to failand I never gave them
instructions on how to do it.
This is the outcome I'm seeking.
Can you take care of that?
Sure, they go, they fail.
(27:06):
The outcome I'm seeking Can youtake care of that?
Sure, they go, they fail.
And then I turned into Socrates,so I would ask them questions
Instead of telling them how todo it.
I would ask questions andthey'd go back and they'd fail
again.
They'd come to me and I'd askthem questions and they'd go and
they'd fail.
But what happened over time isthey started developing talk
(27:27):
about change in their brain.
They started developing a newway of solving problems, a new
way of thinking about problems,and so in time, I could ask them
to do something they didn'tknow how to do, and they could
go a lot further than they wouldhave in the past, and they'd
come back and say I'm stuck.
(27:48):
And then it was to the point.
They didn't have to come backto me and they would start
volunteering for things thatthey normally wouldn't do.
So when I was runningorganizations, my people would
come to me and say, ted, I'mstuck, I have a problem, and I
(28:17):
just would be Socrates, whatwould you do if I wasn't here?
Would I do this, this and this?
Well, if you do that, whatabout this?
Ha didn ask me these questions.
I've already thought aboutthose things and now I'm stuck,
and so I still ask the question.
Eventually they didn't need meanymore, like we don't need you,
we've got this worked out.
Go away, man.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
The other thing that you reminded me is that in my
organizations that in myexperience in the organizations
I worked for, they had trainingprograms, they had training
dollars, they had school fundsthat could be utilized and there
was very few people that evertook anyone up on taking those
(29:03):
classes and going back to schooland trying to do the
improvement, on taking thoseclasses and going back to school
and trying to do theimprovement.
But you would find thoseindividuals that would start to
show the inquisitiveness andstarting to have that drive of
career and wanting to take thatnext step and it's like well,
why aren't you using?
You're getting $5,000 a year.
You have a benefit and you'venever used it.
You know, I give them theexamples.
(29:25):
When I was going to school, Igot my undergrad, um, it took me
11 years and technically ittook me eight.
I got transferred in the middleof that, but it was 11 years
and I got my bachelor's degreeand I would have relatives say
is he ever going to stop goingto school?
But it was.
It was I wanted to improvemyself going to school.
(29:49):
But it was.
It was I wanted to improvemyself, I wanted to be able to
take that next step in my careerand I knew that I needed that
background and I need thateducation in order to make that
change.
But I also utilize the fundsthat were available to me.
I didn't I didn't have a jobuntil halfway through that
process that I could use theirfunds, but it was that drive to
understand that there issomething there.
(30:09):
There are vehicles sometimesthat can help you get that goal.
But you have to have the sparkand you have to have the drive
to take it.
That next step.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I was a sales trainer and I remember a sales training
company talking about.
It's usually the highperformers who are willing to
even go back to the basics.
They're already good, butthey'll go back and refresh,
they'll learn the basics andthen work their way up.
And many other people are likewell, I'm already good, so I
(30:41):
don't need that stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, well, there's some that actually earned that
title, that had that capacity,but they usually end up shooting
themselves in the foot.
Greg, I think you had a greatexample of somebody that you had
in your past that was anoutstanding executive but ended
up shooting himself in the footbecause he didn't listen.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Yeah, very bad listener and because he thought
he knew it all.
He was very intelligent, he'svery well educated, but his ego
kind of matched up with hisbrains and so he wasn't open to
what I used to call lifelonglearning.
Because he knew it all and atsome point some more senior
people said you don't know itall and you either need to
decide you want to learn oryou're going to do something
(31:23):
different.
And he ended up going somewhereelse, but he just couldn't see
it.
He was so brilliant yet not sosmart, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
It's almost that you know.
I don't know if you've seen theexample where you're filling a
teacup with tea and it's filledand nothing else can go in it,
so he's already full.
He can't even learn anythingelse.
My teacup is full.
There's nothing you can offerme.
And people often talk about themind of the beginner and the
(31:55):
mind of the beginner.
Beginner is always available tolearn new things, even though
they are an expert.
You think of Nikola Tesla?
The guy was brilliant, but henever stopped learning.
He never stopped inventing newthings.
He clearly was a genius and hejust never stopped.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Unfortunately, people think of Thomas Edison more
than they do of Nikola Tesla.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Not when you're looking at AC and DC.
Tesla was the guy Right, that'sright.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
That is right, not when you're looking at AC and DC
, Tesla was the guy that's right.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
That is right.
So, Ted, we're getting close tothe end of our interview.
Is there something that youwould like to talk about in
terms of the things that you'reworking on and a little bit
about your organization?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Sure.
So I have a philosophy when wespeak of disruptive leadership.
So it's either you disruptyourself or you'll be disrupted
by the marketplace.
And if you are the CEO, yourjob, one of your major, most
(33:07):
important jobs, is tointentionally create problems.
And if you're not doing that,you should be fired or retrained
immediately and when you canbuild a culture that can support
you.
So you know you are.
Steve Jobs is a great example.
Put 1000 songs on a listeningdevice.
How do we do that?
(33:27):
We don't know.
That's your problem.
I'm being a little callousabout it.
I hired you guys to do that.
That's the outcome.
It needs to be small enough tofit into your pocket and hold
1,000 songs.
We've never done it, no one'sdone it, and that's your job.
And out comes an iPod and thenhe says great, now turn it into
(33:50):
a cell phone.
How do we do that?
Why are we making cell phones?
This makes no sense.
Right, these becomebreakthroughs.
So you can understand that atany level in an organization, in
an organization, from afrontline worker to a supervisor
, a manager, a BP, it doesn'tmatter One of the things if you
(34:16):
are committed to climbing thecorporate ladder.
What I just said is reallyimportant because supervisors,
managers, they are hired andthey are rewarded for solving
problems and they're great at it.
But the people who make thetransformation from problem
(34:37):
solver to problem creator arethe ones who receive the key to
the executive offices, to theexecutive bathroom offices, to
the executive bathroom.
So, even if you're a supervisor, don't be afraid to stretch
your people beyond what theythink they can do.
Your people, people arebrilliant.
(34:58):
When I'm telling you about myparents dying and coaching my
sisters up, my sisters hadgreater capacity than anyone
would think a 12 or 16 year oldcan do.
So it just says a lot aboutpeople and their resilience and
their capacity to accomplishthings if they have the
(35:18):
appropriate guidance around them.
My sisters trusted me.
I mean, we lost parents.
I'm the oldest, so I have maybea different relationship with
them than most.
I'm the oldest, so I have maybea different relationship with
them than most.
But even in organizations I wasable to earn that kind of trust
from my people.
And, yes, they did get pushedback.
And how can you?
We can't do those things.
(35:39):
We're going to be out ofbusiness if we do that.
And when they saw where itelevated us to a high performing
organization, now.
Everyone was on board.
So don't be afraid to stretchyour people.
Don't be afraid of chaos.
The normal default is to thinksomething's wrong and the most
(36:00):
effective way to look at it iswhat's missing.
So we are in a gap.
So being able to navigateyourself and others, whether
you're a supervisor or a CEO, isreally critical in business and
in your you know we go back tomy book and in your intimate
relationships, chaos is not theproblem.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
So I saw that your book's available on Amazon, and
if they wanted to get ahold ofyou in terms of the work as a
founder and the CEO ofTurnaround Investment Partners,
how would they contact you?
Speaker 2 (36:33):
You can email me personally tsantos at
turnaroundipcom, and my book isalso found inside the brick and
mortar Barnes Noble stores, aswell as their website.
So Barnes Noble carries itAwesome.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Noble stores as well as their website.
So Barnes and Noble carries itAwesome.
So thank you, Ted Santos, forall the help in terms of trying
to help leaders understand thenext step and understand
additional challenges that theyneed to bring to the community
that they're working for, forthe organizations, for the
company and maybe a little bitat home too.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
So I think it's a lot of words of wisdom, Thank you
Thanks for having me and I'msorry to just say this last.
If someone is interested in afree 30-minute consultation,
please email me and we can setthat up and I can help you in
any way that I can in that time.
I'm willing to offer that.
(37:27):
So thanks for having me.
It's been my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
That's awesome.
Well, there's that music.
I've written a book Buildingyour Leadership Toolbox.
It's available on Amazon andBarnes Noble and others.
We have the podcast of successsecrets and Stories that you're
listening to.
Thank you, we appreciate it.
(37:53):
It's available on other popularformats.
The music has been brought toyou by my grandson and if you
want to get a hold of us, youcan contact us at author
wwwauthorjawcom.
So, greg, thanks, this was fun.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Thanks, John, as always.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Next time?
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeahyeah.
Hello everyone and welcome to Success in Secrets
and Stories.
I'm your host, john Wondolowski, and I'm here with my co-host
and friend, greg Powell.
Greg, hey, everybody, we'regoing to have some fun.
We're going to have aninterview Today.
We're going to be talking inour author-to-author series on
stories with Ted Santos, and Tedis the founder and CEO of
(00:37):
Turnaround Investment Partners.
He's also written a book.
Here's why you Can't Find Love,and I think, ted, when we're
talking about the things thatyou've done, I'd like to start
with the book, because I findthe book a very interesting
starting point and gives aninteresting beginning of some of
(00:59):
the things that you're tryingto teach in your position and
how you're working with CEOs.
Maybe you can talk a little bitabout what inspired you to
write the book and the messagethat you're trying to get across
.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
First I want to say thank you for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here andI look forward to a very
engaging conversation, so thanksfor inviting me.
So the book Divorce Rate isOver 50% and I've had a concern.
In fact, a number of colleagueswould always ask me why are you
(01:34):
always worried about divorceand the impact on business?
And I'm like it can't be free,it has to be impacting us in
some way.
So Divorce Rate is somewherebetween between 53 and 55% in
the US, and when I starteddigging deeper, I did find
(01:54):
financial impact.
There's an organization calledLife Innovation and they said
corporate America is losing over$300 billion every year
workplace productivity, and it'sbecause of divorce.
When people are going throughdivorce, their productivity
drops between 50% and 75%.
And think about it If apercentage of your people are
(02:18):
headed for divorce, so they aredistracted, a percentage are in
the middle, and then there'sanother percentage that just
came out of it.
These are people who aredistracted.
A percentage are in the middle,and then there's another
percentage that just came out ofit.
These are people who aredistracted.
A close friend of mine took oneyear off from work so he could
recalibrate his life.
He had been married 20 years,and not everyone can do that.
(02:38):
Imagine if he couldn't affordto do that.
He would have clocked in everyday and he would have been
somewhere else getting paid.
So that's a problem.
And in addition to the $300billion to corporate America,
there's another $30 billion tothe taxpayer, because divorce
(03:00):
creates poverty, there's crime,social programs and there are
all these things.
And that bill is, you know,it's given to the taxpayer.
So divorce is not free and themore it seems, the more divorce
we have, the more people thinkdivorce is a solution yeah,
(03:22):
right, unfortunately, so, uh.
So you know, we, we, it'screating a mindset, it's
distracting us from work.
It's, you know it's, it'sadding crime, poverty, and it's
like this invisible hand that'ssucking kind of the life out of
society and and we're pretendingit's not happening.
So it's like, you know, a legis cut off and we're just
(03:44):
hopping around pretending thateverything's okay and we're
pretending it's not happening.
So it's like a leg is cut offand we're just hopping around
pretending that everything'sokay and we're going to run a
marathon while we're slittingour wrists and no one is talking
about it.
It's just sort of business asusual.
Now here's the interestingthing.
I looked at marriage rates.
This was a couple of years agoand marriage rates were at an
(04:06):
all-time low.
They first started recordingmarriage rates in 1865, and it's
never been this low since 1865.
Yeah, if you're in the affluentclass, marriage rates haven't
dropped.
So if you're in a corporation,the people around you, your
(04:28):
colleagues, most of them remainmarried.
It's the people under you whoare getting divorces.
So if I kind of give you apunchline if I'm integrating the
(04:49):
book with corporate America, Iwas reading that they asked many
executives what skill do youwish you were better at, and the
majority say conflictresolution.
I'm willing to bet if peoplewere better with conflict
resolution at work and at home,the divorce rate would drop.
So so I wrote the book and itthe book takes the reader on a
(05:10):
journey of transformation.
One is is better understandingself so that you can choose
someone who's compatible.
And, and they said, the reasonthe affluent have a low divorce
rate is they've done a betterjob of finding a compatible
partner.
And the partner is compatibleeven in the face of them losing
(05:33):
it all, sleeping out of a car,having to move to their parents'
home, and there's no split.
The spouse, the wife, doesn'tsay hey, I thought you were the
golden child.
And here we are, sleeping outof a car, I'm out.
The guy, robert Kiyosaki, whowrote the book Rich Dad, poor
(05:54):
Dad.
He's an example.
If someone just slept out ofhis car, his wife never left,
then the rest is history.
Look where they are.
So I'm asserting a lot of peopledon't have the skills to manage
the conflict, and often it'ssimple misunderstandings.
So if we looked at corporatesocial responsibility in a new
(06:18):
light, corporations couldtransform the culture of the
nation and reduce divorce Ifthey trained people to develop
the kinds of skills that arevaluable to the corporation.
And then people take those sameskills and competencies and a
mindset home and now people havea better home life, which means
(06:39):
they'll be more productive atwork and they're more productive
and fulfilling at work, workand they're going to have a
better home life.
It's self-perpetuate.
Right now, in theself-perpetuation is unhappy
home life, divorce.
Work sucks, I don't want to behere.
And what do you do when you havea big percentage of your people
who are not productive?
(07:00):
It affects profits.
You start laying people off.
And you don't lay off thepeople going through divorce,
you just randomly lay people off, which now will put pressure on
other households and push themtowards divorce.
And so was saying to you guysthe punchline of the book is
(07:27):
love doesn't create a greatrelationship, love is a
byproduct of a greatrelationship.
So if you develop the skillscompetencies, you have a better
inventory of self and you knowwho's compatible.
And you come together withsomeone you're with that
compatibility with the skillscompetencies, affinity is going
to grow out of it and and thenboom you, you have love comes
(07:52):
out of that.
I mean, you guys have anaffinity for one another, you
work together, you know thatyou're both confident in
something.
It's like, wow, you'reconfident in this, you're
confident in that.
You know we can do somethinghere.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Right and when I look at those kind of lessons, the
ability, I think, is the oneterm that I've heard so many
times in so many differentapplications.
It's communication and tounderstand the things that side
rail communication.
Conflict resolution is anotherexample of communication and if
(08:26):
you don't understand the thingsthat derail it, you know the
drama triangle, the things thatare associated with old things
that happened in the past thatyou're bringing up.
That happened 10 years ago,five years ago, and you're not
in the now.
You're not dealing with theissue that is present, that
you'll spend more time hashingsomething that you should have
put in the pocket and put away along time ago and you're not
(08:50):
getting.
You have to get to the point ofactually having the discussion
that needs to happen andsometimes it's understand.
The noise has to get out of theway.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Well, if you think of a marriage as being no
different than a merger andacquisition in corporate America
, two companies come together.
What's the new corporateculture?
Do we take one culture from oneorganization, do we amalgamate
the two, or do we just createsomething new that could have
(09:20):
never existed?
You know, I like the example ofhow do we get water, hydrogen
and oxygen come together andcreate something neither of them
could have done on their own.
So as human beings, we havethat capacity.
I mean, we are made of atoms,right?
So technically we have thatcapacity innate in us.
So when you have a marriage andtwo people come together, it's
(09:43):
like well, that's not the way myfamily did it.
Well, my family did it this wayand we did it the right way.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So yeah, we did it the right way.
There's there's a defininganswer, and your way is
ridiculous yeah.
Now they went from a 10 minutediscussion to you.
You're, you're tacking in atleast an hour.
That's going to be five years,they're going to say.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I remember when you said my way, you talked about my
family.
I know what you're trying to.
Oh, man, you know.
So we speak of conflictresolution.
What you don't hear is thesecret.
The essence of conflictresolution has nothing to do
with the other person or thesituation.
(10:31):
It's you being triggered andresolving your internal
conflicts that have not beenresolved.
So you are triggered and angrywith the person for something
they reminded you of or youassociate with, and now you're
(10:53):
fighting your own internalconflict and you think it's
about the other person.
But when you and this isgrammatically incorrect when you
untrigger your triggers, sowhen you unlearn your triggers
and how you arrive there now,you're not triggered and you can
actually be with the you meanwhen you say that, but you only
(11:16):
know to the extent it happenedin the past.
So basically, you are puttingyour past in the future and
reliving some past moment andtaking it out on that person,
(11:38):
and you have no capacity toresolve the conflict in you.
So you're fighting yourself andthe other person at the same
time.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Right, right.
I think one of the I've beenmarried for 50 years actually be
50 in December, and thank you.
And and the humor that I haveevery once in a while is I'll
answer the question and my wifewill say, yeah, but that's not
what you mean.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
It's like, oh well, what did I mean to say?
And all of a sudden it's likethat conversation went from five
minutes to you got another fiveto 10 minutes to get back to
point one because you're goingto have to answer that one.
That's implied and I thinkthat's the part for
communication in a businessenvironment for people to
(12:27):
understand there's there'snuances, there's there's so many
different things that go onwith the communication that the
the past, what you're trying toget going forward, being clear
in how you're messaging so thatyou have a clear message that
you're not making it up asyou're speaking.
No way to disrail a managementteam than having the manager or
(12:49):
the supervisor giving roughgeneralities of a goal.
You have to be somewhatspecific for people to know what
the goal is to be achieved.
There has to be some thoughtbehind the recommendations, has
to be some thought behind therecommendations.
You talk about another conceptin your role as a consultant and
(13:10):
you talk about how to bedisruptive to management and
taking that next step.
Greg, would you like to followup on what we were talking about
?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Thank you.
Yeah, when I saw the disruptiveleadership model and I think
about what that means inmarketing and things like that,
as far as the marketplace andyour share of the pie and what
have you, and we think about howto help first line supervisors
be better, and it seems like,well, if I disrupt everything,
if I make them crazy andreinvent things, how are they
going to be successful as youngleaders?
So how do you get them to besuccessful as young leaders with
(13:40):
that kind of a concept, thedisruptive?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
leadership model.
Sure, that's a mindset, andit's also especially if you are
a young leader or a supervisor.
One of the things that you wantto develop is communication,
where you're asking your peoplequestions about who they are,
the things they'd like toaccomplish, what they are good
(14:04):
at, what they would like to begood at, and then there are
going to be some transferableskills, and people don't always
know how to express that.
So when you can tease that out,what that does, it provides a
platform for you to be able tostretch and move people in
directions that they normallywouldn't consider, and it would
(14:26):
be, you know, the proverbialcomfort zone, right?
So you're moving people in adirection that may make them
uncomfortable, with you, as asupervisor, being able to
instill the confidence that, one, I'm here for you.
Two, I believe in you, right.
(14:47):
And three, I trust you, right,and if things go wrong, I'm
ultimately responsible.
I'm willing to.
You know, if it goes bad, it'son me.
So we're going to step out andwe're going to try something.
And then you have a team.
You start to have a team thatlooks like it's being led by
Steve Jobs, where he's askingyou to do things that you've
(15:08):
never done, and you do it.
And if you have breakdowns, youknow a good supervisor leader
will factor breakdowns, problems, disruption, disruption into
your plan, because they happen,especially when you want to
accomplish something you'venever done in the past and
(15:29):
you'll encounter things that youhaven't encountered, which adds
some complexity to it becauseyou may not always have the
skills and competencies.
I know, when you guys weretalking about optimism, that
instead of the default forhumans and the default is what's
wrong with me, what's wrongwith him or her or the whole
(15:51):
system, something's wrong withit we are trained to think that
way.
Believe it or not, whether it'sintentional or not, it's just a
default that we give to oneanother.
What's wrong with you?
How could you do that?
So we just automatically thinkit's not me, it's you that's
wrong?
Or just like saying your familydid it wrong, my family did it
(16:15):
right.
But when you can look at what'smissing I heard you guys talk
about that in the Optimismpodcast as opposed to looking at
what's wrong, we have a gap.
Here's where we are, here'swhere we're committed to going.
Real power is in the gap.
How do you manage and navigatenot only yourself, how do you
(16:51):
navigate a team through that gapin the face of them, saying we
don't know how to do this.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
So, ted, I would add, or maybe kind of dovetail, some
things John's talked a lotabout've talked about, and
that's change, just the wholeconcept of recognizing things
are not going to stay static,they're not going to never be
different.
How do you manage change and adisruptive approach would tell
you get ready, because we're not, we're not going back to the
old way necessarily.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
We're going to do something different and get
their minds ready for that youknow that's an important
conversation to have in anyorganization, because do you
guys know one of the major signsthat a company is in trouble?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
No.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Aside from the stock price.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
They have no R&D or no, in no way to reinvent
themselves definitely can be aproblem, but one of the biggest
problems that uh foretells acompany's going to be in trouble
is they are doing very well ohyeah, right, let's see if it
ain't broke, don't fix it.
Everything's fine where?
(18:07):
Where, hey man, we maketypewriters?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
okay, and everyone loves our typewriters man yeah,
we got the best typewriter inthis in the entire world, did
you guys?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
know.
So we have on our or a keyboardthe Q-W-E-R-T-Y right, right,
yep, qwerty, yep.
I think it was in the 1930sSomeone reconfigured the keys to
be 20% more efficient so youwould type faster.
But everyone they had alreadytrained all the secretaries back
(18:41):
then and they said, oh, that'sgoing to require too much
training.
So this was the dominant design, just, we'll leave it as it is.
So the typewriter companieswere coming up with all kinds of
ways to be more efficient orbetter typewriters, and then
some little company created thiselectric typewriter and they
said get away, we're working toohard.
And then IBM bought theelectric typewriter.
(19:03):
And then IBM made thetransition to computers and we
don't hear about typewritercompanies, you know.
And then ibm made thetransition to computers and we
don't hear about typewritercompanies anymore because they
were doing well.
They were, life was good, theywere complacent.
What do we have to do?
Just make it.
We'll add another feature,another benefit, and that that
is a sign you're doing well.
(19:23):
You're in trouble.
And we have this kind ofdefault in what I would call the
human paradigm, which is changeis hard, and people have bought
that as though it's a fact oflife.
Change is hard and I bet I'mwilling to bet neither of you
(19:44):
were wearing the same clothesyesterday that you're wearing
today, so you changed yourclothes.
People do that with no problem.
Right Every seven years, everycell in our body changes.
So we're technically designedfor change and transformation.
But someone created thisconversation that people bought
(20:04):
into and never questioned, whichis you know, change is hard.
We just can't.
No, you can't expect that fromme.
It's going to take a long time.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
I was calling a vendor of mine that was a mover
and we were constantly changing.
We were making departmentchanges, we were growing and
shrinking and they would movethe department.
And then I'm calling them backtwo weeks later and we're moving
the department to another space.
There was another approach interms of R&D and constantly
(20:40):
fluid, and they kept on sayingyou're wasting a lot of money,
can't they stay in the same seat?
It's in the same building.
And I kept on saying no know,you're wasting a lot of money,
can't they stay in the same seat?
It's in the same building.
And I kept on saying no, wehave to keep on going.
They sent me a little pictureframe with the terms that I
would always say at the end ofevery discussion Change is good,
it's what we're doing, it's ina dynamic company that you're
(21:06):
right we're doing.
It's in a dynamic company.
That you're right.
If people understand change aspart of their culture, they have
to embrace it.
Then you're going to see anorganization that grows.
I think you at a CEO level oftraining and consulting people.
If that energy isn't there forchange, you're probably telling
them that there's ways to try tochange yourself, change the
(21:29):
organization.
But if you don't, you're goingto close doors.
I'm sure that doesn't go oververy well either.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, when you're speaking, I'm thinking of Navy
SEALs.
Do you guys have any idea howmuch the United States
government invests into one NavySEAL?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I'm sure it's an outlandish number Two million
dollars.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Those guys are trained to be able to navigate
and manage chaos to accomplishtheir mission in the face of
anything.
So what?
I'm and I've never been a NavySEAL.
I've met some, but I and mostpeople have said to me oh, all
(22:11):
they're doing with Navy SEALtraining is they're just
breaking them down andbrainwashing them.
And I'm like no, it's actually.
They are disrupting the waythey already think, the actions
they take and what they believeis possible or impossible, and
they support them to breakthrough their limiting beliefs.
(22:35):
So when you train, when youbuild a culture like that and it
has to start with the CEO whenyou build that kind of culture,
you are able to shift on a dime.
So the economy changed, thecompetitive landscape changed.
(22:55):
So not only can we manage thosechanges, we can also lead them.
So, instead of waiting andbeing reactive, we can drive it
and force the marketplace, so wecan disrupt ourselves and then
disrupt the marketplace.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
So COVID taught us a lot in terms of change.
I remember I was in thehospital side and at one point
they said well, we can't havecomputers actually giving
doctors visits.
They have to see someone inorder for our systems to work.
We don't have the capacity orthe capability to bring doctors
(23:36):
into a house so that they canhave an appointment.
Covid hit All of a sudden.
It happened in everyapplication.
Every doctor had the vehicle inorder to pull it off and it was
instant and they were askingfor that for decades.
And all of a sudden they founda way to get it done because
(23:57):
there wasn't any other choice.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Very interesting, right.
I think COVID had a profoundimpact and I'm not sure if we
are reaping all the benefits ofthat.
I mean, I have thoughts at avery, very high level.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
But yeah, covid showed us something and I've
been talking about it for about20 years, and so, anyway, yeah,
so if you were to try tosummarize some of the messages
that you would expect to hearfrom a supervisor, a manager, to
(24:37):
understand how to changeculture and how to embrace a
changed culture, what would thataddress sound like?
What would be the core messagefor them to understand, that
they need to implement, to bringto their employees?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So, as a supervisor, when I was saying initially,
have conversations with them andunderstand their capacity and
what they are committed to inthe future, you really need to
take a stand.
You really need to take a stand.
(25:11):
It's you taking a stand foryour people and standing for
them more than they may knowthey can do.
So your job is to pull more outof people than they know how to
pull out of themselves, and onetactical way to do that is when
you have a good idea as to whothey are, what they're capable
of and some of their tangentialskills and competencies.
(25:33):
You can ask them to do thingsthat you know they don't know
how to do and they'll fail at it, but you have to be okay with
them failing because they aretraining, they are learning, but
you have to be okay with themfailing because they are
training, they are learning, andthe fact that you are there to
support them will create a verystrong trusting bond between the
(25:56):
two of you and they're morelikely when you ask them to do
the impossible, they'll justtake it on because they know
they have your support and if itgoes wrong, you're going to be
(26:19):
accountable for it.
So that's something that'sreally important and I'm the
oldest of four.
So imagine I'm 21, my brother's19 and my sisters are 12 and 16
.
So my brother's on a full ridefootball scholarship.
I take him off to college andeven though my sisters I had
(26:44):
them live with my father'ssister and I still needed them
to do things for me.
My parents had a house, theyhad property, it was a whole
estate, and so I would ask mysisters to do things and I knew
they didn't know how to do it.
I knew they were going to failand I never gave them
instructions on how to do it.
This is the outcome I'm seeking.
Can you take care of that?
Sure, they go, they fail.
(27:06):
The outcome I'm seeking Can youtake care of that?
Sure, they go, they fail.
And then I turned into Socrates,so I would ask them questions
Instead of telling them how todo it.
I would ask questions andthey'd go back and they'd fail
again.
They'd come to me and I'd askthem questions and they'd go and
they'd fail.
But what happened over time isthey started developing talk
(27:27):
about change in their brain.
They started developing a newway of solving problems, a new
way of thinking about problems,and so in time, I could ask them
to do something they didn'tknow how to do, and they could
go a lot further than they wouldhave in the past, and they'd
come back and say I'm stuck.
(27:48):
And then it was to the point.
They didn't have to come backto me and they would start
volunteering for things thatthey normally wouldn't do.
So when I was runningorganizations, my people would
come to me and say, ted, I'mstuck, I have a problem, and I
(28:17):
just would be Socrates, whatwould you do if I wasn't here?
Would I do this, this and this?
Well, if you do that, whatabout this?
Ha didn ask me these questions.
I've already thought aboutthose things and now I'm stuck,
and so I still ask the question.
Eventually they didn't need meanymore, like we don't need you,
we've got this worked out.
Go away, man.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
The other thing that you reminded me is that in my
organizations that in myexperience in the organizations
I worked for, they had trainingprograms, they had training
dollars, they had school fundsthat could be utilized and there
was very few people that evertook anyone up on taking those
(29:03):
classes and going back to schooland trying to do the
improvement, on taking thoseclasses and going back to school
and trying to do theimprovement.
But you would find thoseindividuals that would start to
show the inquisitiveness andstarting to have that drive of
career and wanting to take thatnext step and it's like well,
why aren't you using?
You're getting $5,000 a year.
You have a benefit and you'venever used it.
You know, I give them theexamples.
(29:25):
When I was going to school, Igot my undergrad, um, it took me
11 years and technically ittook me eight.
I got transferred in the middleof that, but it was 11 years
and I got my bachelor's degreeand I would have relatives say
is he ever going to stop goingto school?
But it was.
It was I wanted to improvemyself going to school.
(29:49):
But it was.
It was I wanted to improvemyself, I wanted to be able to
take that next step in my careerand I knew that I needed that
background and I need thateducation in order to make that
change.
But I also utilize the fundsthat were available to me.
I didn't I didn't have a jobuntil halfway through that
process that I could use theirfunds, but it was that drive to
understand that there issomething there.
(30:09):
There are vehicles sometimesthat can help you get that goal.
But you have to have the sparkand you have to have the drive
to take it.
That next step.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I was a sales trainer and I remember a sales training
company talking about.
It's usually the highperformers who are willing to
even go back to the basics.
They're already good, butthey'll go back and refresh,
they'll learn the basics andthen work their way up.
And many other people are likewell, I'm already good, so I
(30:41):
don't need that stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, well, there's some that actually earned that
title, that had that capacity,but they usually end up shooting
themselves in the foot.
Greg, I think you had a greatexample of somebody that you had
in your past that was anoutstanding executive but ended
up shooting himself in the footbecause he didn't listen.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Yeah, very bad listener and because he thought
he knew it all.
He was very intelligent, he'svery well educated, but his ego
kind of matched up with hisbrains and so he wasn't open to
what I used to call lifelonglearning.
Because he knew it all and atsome point some more senior
people said you don't know itall and you either need to
decide you want to learn oryou're going to do something
(31:23):
different.
And he ended up going somewhereelse, but he just couldn't see
it.
He was so brilliant yet not sosmart, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
It's almost that you know.
I don't know if you've seen theexample where you're filling a
teacup with tea and it's filledand nothing else can go in it,
so he's already full.
He can't even learn anythingelse.
My teacup is full.
There's nothing you can offerme.
And people often talk about themind of the beginner and the
(31:55):
mind of the beginner.
Beginner is always available tolearn new things, even though
they are an expert.
You think of Nikola Tesla?
The guy was brilliant, but henever stopped learning.
He never stopped inventing newthings.
He clearly was a genius and hejust never stopped.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Unfortunately, people think of Thomas Edison more
than they do of Nikola Tesla.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Not when you're looking at AC and DC.
Tesla was the guy Right, that'sright.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
That is right, not when you're looking at AC and DC
, Tesla was the guy that's right.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
That is right.
So, Ted, we're getting close tothe end of our interview.
Is there something that youwould like to talk about in
terms of the things that you'reworking on and a little bit
about your organization?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Sure.
So I have a philosophy when wespeak of disruptive leadership.
So it's either you disruptyourself or you'll be disrupted
by the marketplace.
And if you are the CEO, yourjob, one of your major, most
(33:07):
important jobs, is tointentionally create problems.
And if you're not doing that,you should be fired or retrained
immediately and when you canbuild a culture that can support
you.
So you know you are.
Steve Jobs is a great example.
Put 1000 songs on a listeningdevice.
How do we do that?
(33:27):
We don't know.
That's your problem.
I'm being a little callousabout it.
I hired you guys to do that.
That's the outcome.
It needs to be small enough tofit into your pocket and hold
1,000 songs.
We've never done it, no one'sdone it, and that's your job.
And out comes an iPod and thenhe says great, now turn it into
(33:50):
a cell phone.
How do we do that?
Why are we making cell phones?
This makes no sense.
Right, these becomebreakthroughs.
So you can understand that atany level in an organization, in
an organization, from afrontline worker to a supervisor
, a manager, a BP, it doesn'tmatter One of the things if you
(34:16):
are committed to climbing thecorporate ladder.
What I just said is reallyimportant because supervisors,
managers, they are hired andthey are rewarded for solving
problems and they're great at it.
But the people who make thetransformation from problem
(34:37):
solver to problem creator arethe ones who receive the key to
the executive offices, to theexecutive bathroom offices, to
the executive bathroom.
So, even if you're a supervisor, don't be afraid to stretch
your people beyond what theythink they can do.
Your people, people arebrilliant.
(34:58):
When I'm telling you about myparents dying and coaching my
sisters up, my sisters hadgreater capacity than anyone
would think a 12 or 16 year oldcan do.
So it just says a lot aboutpeople and their resilience and
their capacity to accomplishthings if they have the
(35:18):
appropriate guidance around them.
My sisters trusted me.
I mean, we lost parents.
I'm the oldest, so I have maybea different relationship with
them than most.
I'm the oldest, so I have maybea different relationship with
them than most.
But even in organizations I wasable to earn that kind of trust
from my people.
And, yes, they did get pushedback.
And how can you?
We can't do those things.
(35:39):
We're going to be out ofbusiness if we do that.
And when they saw where itelevated us to a high performing
organization, now.
Everyone was on board.
So don't be afraid to stretchyour people.
Don't be afraid of chaos.
The normal default is to thinksomething's wrong and the most
(36:00):
effective way to look at it iswhat's missing.
So we are in a gap.
So being able to navigateyourself and others, whether
you're a supervisor or a CEO, isreally critical in business and
in your you know we go back tomy book and in your intimate
relationships, chaos is not theproblem.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
So I saw that your book's available on Amazon, and
if they wanted to get ahold ofyou in terms of the work as a
founder and the CEO ofTurnaround Investment Partners,
how would they contact you?
Speaker 2 (36:33):
You can email me personally tsantos at
turnaroundipcom, and my book isalso found inside the brick and
mortar Barnes Noble stores, aswell as their website.
So Barnes Noble carries itAwesome.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Noble stores as well as their website.
So Barnes and Noble carries itAwesome.
So thank you, Ted Santos, forall the help in terms of trying
to help leaders understand thenext step and understand
additional challenges that theyneed to bring to the community
that they're working for, forthe organizations, for the
company and maybe a little bitat home too.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
So I think it's a lot of words of wisdom, Thank you
Thanks for having me and I'msorry to just say this last.
If someone is interested in afree 30-minute consultation,
please email me and we can setthat up and I can help you in
any way that I can in that time.
I'm willing to offer that.
(37:27):
So thanks for having me.
It's been my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
That's awesome.
Well, there's that music.
I've written a book Buildingyour Leadership Toolbox.
It's available on Amazon andBarnes Noble and others.
We have the podcast of successsecrets and Stories that you're
listening to.
Thank you, we appreciate it.
(37:53):
It's available on other popularformats.
The music has been brought toyou by my grandson and if you
want to get a hold of us, youcan contact us at author
wwwauthorjawcom.
So, greg, thanks, this was fun.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Thanks, John, as always.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Next time?
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeahyeah.
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