November 21, 2025 • 22 mins
Predicting the future won’t make your team faster, but building a plan you can adapt will. John and Greg dive into strategic vision that survives uncertainty by shifting the spotlight from rigid five-year promises to flexible execution, concrete process goals, and review rhythms that actually move the needle. Along the way, we compare outcome goals to process goals, show how quarterly and monthly check-ins create momentum, and explain why ambitious targets outperform vague intentions when they’re framed with SMART criteria and measured through meaningful KPIs.
We share practical tools leaders can use right away: communication rhythms that fit real schedules, a simple approach to financial forecasting you can do in two hours a month, and a GPS mindset for plans that “recalculate” instead of collapse. You’ll hear how to balance long-term vision with short-term execution, avoid the common trap of outcome obsession, and use digital tools and AI to sharpen insight without bogging down your week. The theme is clarity through action: set direction, measure what matters, and refine as you learn.
Then we bring the same playbook home. Family planning isn’t a lecture; it’s a shared roadmap built from values, wants versus needs, and small routines that lower stress and build trust. Journaling values, aligning on priorities, and installing simple weekly check-ins help kids and adults feel secure and engaged. From PDPs at work to family calendars at home, the principles line up: start small, make it consistent, and keep it flexible.
If this conversation helps you think differently about planning, subscribe and share it with someone who needs a nudge toward action.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success,
Secrets, and Stories.
I'm your host, John Wondolowski,and I'm here with my co-host and
friend, Greg Powell.
Greg?
Hey, everybody.
And when we put together thispodcast, we wanted to put out a
helping hand and help that nextgeneration and help answer the
(00:35):
question of what does it mean tobe a leader?
Today, we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept.
Today, we're going to talk aboutstrategic vision.
And a lot of organizations loveto use that term.
(00:55):
It's usually associated withsomething like the five-year
plan.
And I love the idea of a commentI've heard when you talk about
strategic plan.
Is it really a plan or is it achocolate teapot?
The topic always gets peopletalking.
And some swear by five-yearplans, and others argue that
(01:15):
it's really not that useful.
It's a classic tension, planningversus uncertainty.
And there is an interesting factin business about formal plans
that grow much faster than thosewithout a formal plan.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Most successful small businesses have documented
plans, and the difference isn'tjust correlation, but there's
real causation behind theirsuccess.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
Yeah, but you know, there's a twist.
We're living in one of thoseunpredictable times of history.
And how do we reconcile theplans with constant change?
That's that's really somethingthat we can see in the news
every day.
And exactly where are we goingto go with tariffs and Lord
knows what else is changing?
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
You know, exactly, because where does planning fit
into a world that's continues toshift, continues to morph,
continues to be different, liketechnology, for instance.
Right.
How do you work with that?
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Yeah, well, you know, goal setting really comes
into play where research haslinked goal setting to higher
motivation, self-esteem, andconfidence.
Now you can see the effect ofplanning actually is more
internal as well as external.
But it's not just about havinggoals, it's about having the
right type of goals that youwant to set.
(02:39):
So you mean process goals versusperhaps outcome goals?
Exactly.
And really the secret or themagic dust is process goals that
focus on your actions that youcan control.
While outcome goals emphasizethe final result, it's it's more
like scorekeeping.
(02:59):
For example, a process goalcould be spending two hours each
day learning a new skill,whereas an outcome goal might be
I'll be in a department directorwithin the next five years.
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
So we're suggesting perhaps that process goals are
more effective according toactual research?
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
Yeah, uh dramatically so.
I think it kind of comes fromhaving a plan versus just being
random.
That's why many professionalsrecommend quarterly reviews and
regularly check in with theirteams in terms of goals and to
stay flexible and basically tostay engaged with that planning
process.
SPEAKER_00 (03:40):
You know, that's a huge difference.
And in fact, it reminds me ofthe scene in that Austin Powers
movie where Dr.
Evil demands one milliondollars.
Everybody there is laughing atthe table because he didn't
recognize that inflation hadchanged the value of that one
million dollars.
It's a perfect metaphor for whyrigid long-term plans can be
(04:01):
problematic.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Yep, exactly.
The future is unpredictable.
And like the value of money,there's other things that are
going to make those kind ofchanges that you have to be able
to adapt.
So should we stop planningaltogether?
That's a good question.
But what's the solution?
It's actually about combiningstrategic thinking with
(04:24):
execution planning.
Not to make it too complicated,but historically, five-year
plans originated by governmentplanning.
Here's a stretch.
Stalin was the first one in 1928to actually be the example of
government planning.
(04:44):
Although I'm willing to putmoney on it, that there's some
Russian economist that probablywent to the gulag coming up with
a plan that he wanted to take.
But uh, yeah, he is actually theone that's been accredited of
creating the first five-yearstrategic plan.
In modern business, successcomes from a balance between
(05:05):
long-term and short-termplanning and execution, regular
meetings and strategic meetingsset up on quarterly intervals to
try to go over those priorities.
And that's where the land ofKPIs usually are generated.
SPEAKER_00 (05:21):
So businesses that use both approaches of a plan
and key performance indicatorsare more likely to secure
funding and really importantresources.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01 (05:31):
Exactly.
And like on the personal side,research shows ambitious goals
lead to better performance.
SPEAKER_00 (05:39):
So isn't there a risk of setting goals that are
too ambitious?
I think you remember in the olddays something called BHAGs,
big, hairy, audacious goals,right?
That book by Collins and Porrus.
Are we talking about getting wayout there with the
ambitiousness?
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
Surprisingly, no.
Um, I don't know if they'reaudacious or out unbelievable,
but consulting firms looked atthat specific question and found
leaders with challenging goalsoutperform leaders with easy or
vague ones.
They found that the aggressivegoals push for the innovation
and the growth of theindividual.
(06:14):
And really that's that's whengoals are being applied
correctly, that's what you'rereally looking for.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
So there's an interesting time we're going
through now.
It's not 2008, but how does thecurrent economic climate factor
in?
SPEAKER_01 (06:27):
Yeah.
And really that kind of startsoff so many of these meetings,
especially when you have theaccounting department in the
meetings whenever you're tryingto do an update.
US economy right now is likewhat, 0.3% in the first quarter,
making planning very crucial.
And in uncertain times, havingclear decisions, making a
(06:50):
framework is far more valuablethan ever.
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
So, what makes an effective five-year plan?
There have to be some keyelements, there have to be some
must-haves.
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
I think there is.
And accountants are not going touse this format, but I believe
that it is the best way to tryto set up goals.
And it's called SMART goals.
And we've talked about this inother applications, and it still
applies so well.
Being specific, clearly statingwhat needs to be done and who
will do it.
(07:22):
Measurable, defining theprogress and how it's going to
be tracked or monitored.
Achievable, really, like to yourpoint about the book, not
audacious, but you know, let'stry to find something that is
realistic, but still is going topush to try to get results
relevant to make sure that theobjectives fit the purpose and
(07:44):
the vision.
And then the last one is time ortime-bound, setting up a
timeline for completion so thata goal and a result is captured
within a reasonable period oftime so that it's got an end
date, that you're not chasing itforever.
SPEAKER_00 (08:00):
So, John, at first blush, this seems kind of rigid.
How do you stay flexible withina structure like that?
SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
Well, it kind of comes down to communication and
finding that rhythm, whether itbe daily or weekly or monthly or
quarterly.
It kind of depends on how theorganization itself, or really
the people that you're trying tocheck in with, are responding.
And it helps the group to stayagile so that you're not losing
somebody in the process.
(08:28):
So, can you give us an exampleor two?
Sure.
You know, I had differentapproaches in terms of my
application to what I call, youknow, communication rhythms.
And sometimes I could get awaywith like a five or 10 minute
conversation in my rounds when Iwould be walking around the
site.
To be a little bit more formal,especially when I was using
(08:51):
third parties, I would create amonthly meeting where we would
talk about strategic issues thataffected construction projects.
And when there was really muchmore of a complex kind of
question, those reviews wouldalso be with executives, trying
to talk about it quarterly,making sure that the objectives
of a two-year constructionproject or a three-year
(09:13):
construction project isprogressing.
Changing those timelines reallydepends on how they push back.
That's that staying agile andbeing able to adapt.
Those are kind of key to makesure that you got that rhythm
working.
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
So, John, what about the individual employee?
How often should theycommunicate with management
regarding their personallong-term plan?
The smart personal career goalsand progress.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
Yeah, I mean, in a business sense, it's sort of
like the ever famous PDPs,right?
We're going to talk about thatlater.
But it's it's that personal planthat you do with your boss, and
you want to make sure thatthey're smart goals, that
they're achievable.
Hopefully they're on the samejob and job application that
you're working with.
But it's always good to have awritten review of that process
(10:03):
to make sure that the departmentgoals and the individual's
goals, their personal goals, arebeing accomplished.
And I'm aware of that's a lot ofhard work, and there's
challenges, there's a lot ofchallenges trying to address all
that at the same time.
But that really is thedifference between leadership
and management.
That's not just meeting therequirements, it's it's
(10:25):
exceeding those requirements.
So, what happens when things gooff track?
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
How do you get things back on track?
SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
Yeah, I mean, it's inevitable, right?
I mean, most businesses, like50, 60% of businesses, can adapt
their plans to reach theirobjectives.
That's the whole idea of beingagile.
Planning should be a livingdocument.
It's like a GPS, recalculatingthe direction that you want to
go.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
So that analogy makes a lot of sense.
But what about resources needed?
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Oh, yeah, the world of money.
Financial forecasting, if youhaven't heard that term before.
And it's hard for probably theterm that I heard it most use
whenever you had theentrepreneurs and they're trying
to come up with answers forbankers and trying to do
forecasting.
Use digital tools.
(11:18):
That's really where AI isstarting to kick in.
That's where you're going to seethe biggest change.
And also dedicate time to it.
Like one of the best things todo is dedicate two hours a month
for financial planning and thatforecasting exercise.
If you need more time, then sobe it.
But you need to put that in partof your actual toolbox of what
(11:42):
you need to do to be anexecutive leader.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
So, you know, that's manageable and sustainable.
But what's the biggest mistakepeople make moving forward?
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Yeah, focusing too much on the outcomes.
Outcomes are outcomes.
Those are results.
Instead, pay attention to theprocess.
That's what you can control.
That's what you can actuallyinfluence.
SPEAKER_00 (12:05):
Okay, John.
So what's your final tip forstarting a business-related
five-year plan?
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
Okay.
Well, let's begin with theprocess again with goals and
regular reviews.
And remember that flexibility isstrength.
It's like that GPS example ofrecalculating your journey.
But planning is really more of ahabit rather than a one-time
event.
Reframing a five-year plan is aplanning muscle, and that's
(12:35):
something that you need to keepwarmed up and exercised.
Second point start small.
Plan the next five months, butthen stretch it as you go along
in the process to be a five-yearplan, but start where it's
achievable.
Planning makes uncertaintysomething that you can navigate.
(12:57):
It's not avoidable.
It's inevitable.
Let me give you a little bit ofa quote, something to reflect
on.
Plans are useless, but planningis indispensable.
That's by Dwight D.
Eisenhower.
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
So success isn't about a perfect prediction,
rather, it's about having aframework that you can navigate
the future.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
And you know, I really need to talk about
something else.
Planning should be somethingthat you would do with your
family, and applying the samething with the SMART goals in a
family setting.
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
So, John, definitely.
I mean, crafting a personaldevelopment plan, making sure
your family goals are aligned,developing leadership and
skills, all that matters.
This isn't just about followyour dreams, pep talk, right?
Rah-rah, happy, let's goforward.
So, what's the most commonmisconception?
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
People think that a family plan is about setting
random goals.
Really, it's about structuredprocess requiring honest
self-reflection and attainableaction steps.
That sounds familiar, right?
You don't want to make somethingpie in the sky and then see that
disappointment, especially in afamily setting.
(14:12):
It's like creating a roadmap sothat you know where you're going
and you can figure out how toget there.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
Well, I will tell you, John, from my experience in
human resources, whereindividuals need personal
development plans, familiesdefinitely do as well.
And it helps them navigate thetough times and get to the goals
that they're trying to achieve.
But how do you startself-reflection?
No, family planning.
Sit downs are not usually fun,right?
Somebody did something wrong.
We're here having a familymeeting, whatever.
(14:39):
You know, it can be veryoverwhelming thinking about a
sit-down family plan.
How do you attack that?
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
Yeah, uh it's like, oh, how do you eat a whale, like
one spoon at a time?
You're you're trying to findsome manageable steps.
Start by, you know, simplyjournal entries of your values.
It's a great way to try toidentify those things that are
important to you and ask yourfamily to do the same things.
What are the dreams, thestrengths, the weaknesses?
(15:09):
What are their goals?
And help them to do a little bitof that self-reflection, that
self-u-assessment of their goalsthat can be achieved.
It's a wonderful thing in afamily setting to try to bring
out that dreamer that you haveat your own table.
And you'd be surprised what youcan learn.
SPEAKER_00 (15:29):
So it's not just about what you want, but
understanding why you want it.
And that sounds a lot like thatpsychology word we've talked
about in the past.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
Yep, it is.
And it's a lot of what Dr.
Durst helped me understand iswhat do you want in terms of
family goals that may besomething you want at the
beginning, but you know, thatchanged over time.
To understand the differencebetween wants and needs, that's
probably the greatest thing tostart with in terms of family
(16:00):
requirements.
We would all like amillion-dollar lottery ticket,
but if you want a secondbathroom, which is a real need
for a family that has threekids, yeah, that's a real need.
And going to Harvard may be awant, but receiving a bachelor's
degree is the real need.
And trying to find ways toincrease your earnings and
(16:21):
savings in order to accomplishthat need for your family,
that's actually using yourresources the best you can.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
So it's about how business and family goals and
then how they relate to eachother.
SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
Yeah.
Oh, an interesting application,it's a little bit of a stretch,
but uh I think it's Madame MarieCurrie.
And uh, she won two Nobel Prizesin terms of science, and she was
raising two daughters at thesame time.
And okay, so she knows that sheunderstands science, and instead
(16:56):
of trying to make some conflict,she worked with her children,
with both of her daughters, andfound it as a teaching
opportunity.
And and that family grew in theworld of science that even her
eldest daughter won a NobelPrize in Chemistry.
It's fascinating how the familyunit worked as one and it had a
(17:18):
common goal.
SPEAKER_00 (17:19):
Well, I will tell you, John, this is a great
example of family and personalgoals and how they can reinforce
each other.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
Absolutely.
And family planning goes beyonddeciding to have children or
about health or about educationor about financial security.
Constant family routines arelinked to children's social
skills and academic success.
Structure creates security andpredictability.
(17:48):
When the family has sharedvision and shared strength, they
grow, and that's really awonderful starting point.
Let me give you a coupleexamples of why a family needs a
plan.
Families thrive when they sharethat common goal.
And since you're going to bedoing it on some kind of regular
basis, you know the goalschange.
(18:11):
Planning reduces stress andbuilds trust.
And there can't be anything morethat children are looking for
than that element of trust.
Encouraging open communicationand shared values is the example
of what you're trying to do as aparent.
And if that doesn't help reallypush the needle for the family
(18:33):
to grow, that's probably thebiggest challenge that they're
going to have.
Family goals are like financialmilestones, i.e., like our
college example that we talkedabout, health and wellness
routines, having some fun withtravel experiences, and then
looking at education as personalgrowth and maybe doing some
(18:56):
hobbies from that experience.
They're all things that actuallyhelp that process.
SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
So, John, that must impact the whole family's
well-being.
And I think back during 2008,2009, and the economy was really
tough, and I was going to losemy job.
I was looking for another job.
So I found another job.
Unfortunately, it was 200 milesaway.
And I commuted for four and ahalf years every week so that my
daughter could go to high schoolwith her junior high friends.
(19:22):
And my mother was living withus, and she had doctor issues
and dialysis and wanted to notuproot any of that.
But I needed to provide for thefamily, and this was the optimal
way to do so.
And I missed some of my kids'events that occurred during the
week.
And we all sacrificed somethingduring that time.
But I can tell you, and you canask them, we emerged better as a
family unit.
(19:43):
So structure really does helpkids thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And families with routines aremore resilient during crises.
And that I think even the powerto handle illnesses.
The advantages also helps interms of unity, like we talked
about, where everyone feels partof that journey.
That there is that adaptabilityto plans where they can see
(20:09):
those changes in terms of howlife pushes you in a new
direction.
That GPS starts to kick in.
And there's that emotionalsafety that planning reduces
uncertainty.
SPEAKER_00 (20:19):
So, John, this is really interesting and valuable
information.
So, what's the most importanttakeaway we should remember from
this?
SPEAKER_01 (20:27):
Create a direction.
And it's not going to beperfection, it's about the
process.
Start small, keep consistent,and adjust as you go.
Life balance means setting adirection for your family so
that everyone knows what ispossible and how to dream.
SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
Well, I can tell you, even small improvements in
planning and routine can lead tobig, huge changes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:52):
Yeah, exactly.
And what a perfect moment uh inorder to try to do that plan for
yourself.
That would be right now.
This is the perfect time tostart.
If you haven't done it, you needto do it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:06):
So to wrap up, planning helps organizations
with direction, staffing, goals,and yes, career development,
that personal development.
The same skills apply topersonal life.
Planning your career, yourfamily goals, do that together.
That will reduce conflict andwith regular updates and less
drama at home.
SPEAKER_01 (21:26):
I couldn't have said it better.
Exactly.
Planning is really an importanttool, and it can really give you
an opportunity to find life isless stressful, and you can have
a better chance to enjoy it.
So if you like what you'veheard, I've written a book
called Building Your LeadershipToolbox, and we talk about tools
(21:49):
like this, and it's available onAmazon and Barnes and Noble and
other sites.
The podcast is what you've beenlistening to.
Thank you so much.
It's also available on Apple,Google, and Spotify.
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr.
Durst in his MBR program.
If you'd like to know more aboutDr.
Durst, you can find out onSuccessGrowthAcademy.com.
(22:11):
And if you'd like to contact us,please send me a line.
That's Wando75 periodjw atgmail.com.
And the music has been broughtto you by my grandson.
So we want to hear from you.
Drop me a line.
Tell me what's going on, whatyou like, and what you would
like to hear about.
(22:31):
It has always helped us tocreate content.
Thanks, Greg.
This was fun.
Thanks, John.
As always.
Next time.
Yeah.
Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success,
Secrets, and Stories.
I'm your host, John Wondolowski,and I'm here with my co-host and
friend, Greg Powell.
Greg?
Hey, everybody.
And when we put together thispodcast, we wanted to put out a
helping hand and help that nextgeneration and help answer the
(00:35):
question of what does it mean tobe a leader?
Today, we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept.
Today, we're going to talk aboutstrategic vision.
And a lot of organizations loveto use that term.
(00:55):
It's usually associated withsomething like the five-year
plan.
And I love the idea of a commentI've heard when you talk about
strategic plan.
Is it really a plan or is it achocolate teapot?
The topic always gets peopletalking.
And some swear by five-yearplans, and others argue that
(01:15):
it's really not that useful.
It's a classic tension, planningversus uncertainty.
And there is an interesting factin business about formal plans
that grow much faster than thosewithout a formal plan.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Most successful small businesses have documented
plans, and the difference isn'tjust correlation, but there's
real causation behind theirsuccess.
SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
Yeah, but you know, there's a twist.
We're living in one of thoseunpredictable times of history.
And how do we reconcile theplans with constant change?
That's that's really somethingthat we can see in the news
every day.
And exactly where are we goingto go with tariffs and Lord
knows what else is changing?
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
You know, exactly, because where does planning fit
into a world that's continues toshift, continues to morph,
continues to be different, liketechnology, for instance.
Right.
How do you work with that?
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Yeah, well, you know, goal setting really comes
into play where research haslinked goal setting to higher
motivation, self-esteem, andconfidence.
Now you can see the effect ofplanning actually is more
internal as well as external.
But it's not just about havinggoals, it's about having the
right type of goals that youwant to set.
(02:39):
So you mean process goals versusperhaps outcome goals?
Exactly.
And really the secret or themagic dust is process goals that
focus on your actions that youcan control.
While outcome goals emphasizethe final result, it's it's more
like scorekeeping.
(02:59):
For example, a process goalcould be spending two hours each
day learning a new skill,whereas an outcome goal might be
I'll be in a department directorwithin the next five years.
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
So we're suggesting perhaps that process goals are
more effective according toactual research?
SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
Yeah, uh dramatically so.
I think it kind of comes fromhaving a plan versus just being
random.
That's why many professionalsrecommend quarterly reviews and
regularly check in with theirteams in terms of goals and to
stay flexible and basically tostay engaged with that planning
process.
SPEAKER_00 (03:40):
You know, that's a huge difference.
And in fact, it reminds me ofthe scene in that Austin Powers
movie where Dr.
Evil demands one milliondollars.
Everybody there is laughing atthe table because he didn't
recognize that inflation hadchanged the value of that one
million dollars.
It's a perfect metaphor for whyrigid long-term plans can be
(04:01):
problematic.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Yep, exactly.
The future is unpredictable.
And like the value of money,there's other things that are
going to make those kind ofchanges that you have to be able
to adapt.
So should we stop planningaltogether?
That's a good question.
But what's the solution?
It's actually about combiningstrategic thinking with
(04:24):
execution planning.
Not to make it too complicated,but historically, five-year
plans originated by governmentplanning.
Here's a stretch.
Stalin was the first one in 1928to actually be the example of
government planning.
(04:44):
Although I'm willing to putmoney on it, that there's some
Russian economist that probablywent to the gulag coming up with
a plan that he wanted to take.
But uh, yeah, he is actually theone that's been accredited of
creating the first five-yearstrategic plan.
In modern business, successcomes from a balance between
(05:05):
long-term and short-termplanning and execution, regular
meetings and strategic meetingsset up on quarterly intervals to
try to go over those priorities.
And that's where the land ofKPIs usually are generated.
SPEAKER_00 (05:21):
So businesses that use both approaches of a plan
and key performance indicatorsare more likely to secure
funding and really importantresources.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01 (05:31):
Exactly.
And like on the personal side,research shows ambitious goals
lead to better performance.
SPEAKER_00 (05:39):
So isn't there a risk of setting goals that are
too ambitious?
I think you remember in the olddays something called BHAGs,
big, hairy, audacious goals,right?
That book by Collins and Porrus.
Are we talking about getting wayout there with the
ambitiousness?
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
Surprisingly, no.
Um, I don't know if they'reaudacious or out unbelievable,
but consulting firms looked atthat specific question and found
leaders with challenging goalsoutperform leaders with easy or
vague ones.
They found that the aggressivegoals push for the innovation
and the growth of theindividual.
(06:14):
And really that's that's whengoals are being applied
correctly, that's what you'rereally looking for.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
So there's an interesting time we're going
through now.
It's not 2008, but how does thecurrent economic climate factor
in?
SPEAKER_01 (06:27):
Yeah.
And really that kind of startsoff so many of these meetings,
especially when you have theaccounting department in the
meetings whenever you're tryingto do an update.
US economy right now is likewhat, 0.3% in the first quarter,
making planning very crucial.
And in uncertain times, havingclear decisions, making a
(06:50):
framework is far more valuablethan ever.
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
So, what makes an effective five-year plan?
There have to be some keyelements, there have to be some
must-haves.
SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
I think there is.
And accountants are not going touse this format, but I believe
that it is the best way to tryto set up goals.
And it's called SMART goals.
And we've talked about this inother applications, and it still
applies so well.
Being specific, clearly statingwhat needs to be done and who
will do it.
(07:22):
Measurable, defining theprogress and how it's going to
be tracked or monitored.
Achievable, really, like to yourpoint about the book, not
audacious, but you know, let'stry to find something that is
realistic, but still is going topush to try to get results
relevant to make sure that theobjectives fit the purpose and
(07:44):
the vision.
And then the last one is time ortime-bound, setting up a
timeline for completion so thata goal and a result is captured
within a reasonable period oftime so that it's got an end
date, that you're not chasing itforever.
SPEAKER_00 (08:00):
So, John, at first blush, this seems kind of rigid.
How do you stay flexible withina structure like that?
SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
Well, it kind of comes down to communication and
finding that rhythm, whether itbe daily or weekly or monthly or
quarterly.
It kind of depends on how theorganization itself, or really
the people that you're trying tocheck in with, are responding.
And it helps the group to stayagile so that you're not losing
somebody in the process.
(08:28):
So, can you give us an exampleor two?
Sure.
You know, I had differentapproaches in terms of my
application to what I call, youknow, communication rhythms.
And sometimes I could get awaywith like a five or 10 minute
conversation in my rounds when Iwould be walking around the
site.
To be a little bit more formal,especially when I was using
(08:51):
third parties, I would create amonthly meeting where we would
talk about strategic issues thataffected construction projects.
And when there was really muchmore of a complex kind of
question, those reviews wouldalso be with executives, trying
to talk about it quarterly,making sure that the objectives
of a two-year constructionproject or a three-year
(09:13):
construction project isprogressing.
Changing those timelines reallydepends on how they push back.
That's that staying agile andbeing able to adapt.
Those are kind of key to makesure that you got that rhythm
working.
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
So, John, what about the individual employee?
How often should theycommunicate with management
regarding their personallong-term plan?
The smart personal career goalsand progress.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
Yeah, I mean, in a business sense, it's sort of
like the ever famous PDPs,right?
We're going to talk about thatlater.
But it's it's that personal planthat you do with your boss, and
you want to make sure thatthey're smart goals, that
they're achievable.
Hopefully they're on the samejob and job application that
you're working with.
But it's always good to have awritten review of that process
(10:03):
to make sure that the departmentgoals and the individual's
goals, their personal goals, arebeing accomplished.
And I'm aware of that's a lot ofhard work, and there's
challenges, there's a lot ofchallenges trying to address all
that at the same time.
But that really is thedifference between leadership
and management.
That's not just meeting therequirements, it's it's
(10:25):
exceeding those requirements.
So, what happens when things gooff track?
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
How do you get things back on track?
SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
Yeah, I mean, it's inevitable, right?
I mean, most businesses, like50, 60% of businesses, can adapt
their plans to reach theirobjectives.
That's the whole idea of beingagile.
Planning should be a livingdocument.
It's like a GPS, recalculatingthe direction that you want to
go.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
So that analogy makes a lot of sense.
But what about resources needed?
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Oh, yeah, the world of money.
Financial forecasting, if youhaven't heard that term before.
And it's hard for probably theterm that I heard it most use
whenever you had theentrepreneurs and they're trying
to come up with answers forbankers and trying to do
forecasting.
Use digital tools.
(11:18):
That's really where AI isstarting to kick in.
That's where you're going to seethe biggest change.
And also dedicate time to it.
Like one of the best things todo is dedicate two hours a month
for financial planning and thatforecasting exercise.
If you need more time, then sobe it.
But you need to put that in partof your actual toolbox of what
(11:42):
you need to do to be anexecutive leader.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
So, you know, that's manageable and sustainable.
But what's the biggest mistakepeople make moving forward?
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Yeah, focusing too much on the outcomes.
Outcomes are outcomes.
Those are results.
Instead, pay attention to theprocess.
That's what you can control.
That's what you can actuallyinfluence.
SPEAKER_00 (12:05):
Okay, John.
So what's your final tip forstarting a business-related
five-year plan?
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
Okay.
Well, let's begin with theprocess again with goals and
regular reviews.
And remember that flexibility isstrength.
It's like that GPS example ofrecalculating your journey.
But planning is really more of ahabit rather than a one-time
event.
Reframing a five-year plan is aplanning muscle, and that's
(12:35):
something that you need to keepwarmed up and exercised.
Second point start small.
Plan the next five months, butthen stretch it as you go along
in the process to be a five-yearplan, but start where it's
achievable.
Planning makes uncertaintysomething that you can navigate.
(12:57):
It's not avoidable.
It's inevitable.
Let me give you a little bit ofa quote, something to reflect
on.
Plans are useless, but planningis indispensable.
That's by Dwight D.
Eisenhower.
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
So success isn't about a perfect prediction,
rather, it's about having aframework that you can navigate
the future.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
And you know, I really need to talk about
something else.
Planning should be somethingthat you would do with your
family, and applying the samething with the SMART goals in a
family setting.
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
So, John, definitely.
I mean, crafting a personaldevelopment plan, making sure
your family goals are aligned,developing leadership and
skills, all that matters.
This isn't just about followyour dreams, pep talk, right?
Rah-rah, happy, let's goforward.
So, what's the most commonmisconception?
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
People think that a family plan is about setting
random goals.
Really, it's about structuredprocess requiring honest
self-reflection and attainableaction steps.
That sounds familiar, right?
You don't want to make somethingpie in the sky and then see that
disappointment, especially in afamily setting.
(14:12):
It's like creating a roadmap sothat you know where you're going
and you can figure out how toget there.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
Well, I will tell you, John, from my experience in
human resources, whereindividuals need personal
development plans, familiesdefinitely do as well.
And it helps them navigate thetough times and get to the goals
that they're trying to achieve.
But how do you startself-reflection?
No, family planning.
Sit downs are not usually fun,right?
Somebody did something wrong.
We're here having a familymeeting, whatever.
(14:39):
You know, it can be veryoverwhelming thinking about a
sit-down family plan.
How do you attack that?
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
Yeah, uh it's like, oh, how do you eat a whale, like
one spoon at a time?
You're you're trying to findsome manageable steps.
Start by, you know, simplyjournal entries of your values.
It's a great way to try toidentify those things that are
important to you and ask yourfamily to do the same things.
What are the dreams, thestrengths, the weaknesses?
(15:09):
What are their goals?
And help them to do a little bitof that self-reflection, that
self-u-assessment of their goalsthat can be achieved.
It's a wonderful thing in afamily setting to try to bring
out that dreamer that you haveat your own table.
And you'd be surprised what youcan learn.
SPEAKER_00 (15:29):
So it's not just about what you want, but
understanding why you want it.
And that sounds a lot like thatpsychology word we've talked
about in the past.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
Yep, it is.
And it's a lot of what Dr.
Durst helped me understand iswhat do you want in terms of
family goals that may besomething you want at the
beginning, but you know, thatchanged over time.
To understand the differencebetween wants and needs, that's
probably the greatest thing tostart with in terms of family
(16:00):
requirements.
We would all like amillion-dollar lottery ticket,
but if you want a secondbathroom, which is a real need
for a family that has threekids, yeah, that's a real need.
And going to Harvard may be awant, but receiving a bachelor's
degree is the real need.
And trying to find ways toincrease your earnings and
(16:21):
savings in order to accomplishthat need for your family,
that's actually using yourresources the best you can.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
So it's about how business and family goals and
then how they relate to eachother.
SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
Yeah.
Oh, an interesting application,it's a little bit of a stretch,
but uh I think it's Madame MarieCurrie.
And uh, she won two Nobel Prizesin terms of science, and she was
raising two daughters at thesame time.
And okay, so she knows that sheunderstands science, and instead
(16:56):
of trying to make some conflict,she worked with her children,
with both of her daughters, andfound it as a teaching
opportunity.
And and that family grew in theworld of science that even her
eldest daughter won a NobelPrize in Chemistry.
It's fascinating how the familyunit worked as one and it had a
(17:18):
common goal.
SPEAKER_00 (17:19):
Well, I will tell you, John, this is a great
example of family and personalgoals and how they can reinforce
each other.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
Absolutely.
And family planning goes beyonddeciding to have children or
about health or about educationor about financial security.
Constant family routines arelinked to children's social
skills and academic success.
Structure creates security andpredictability.
(17:48):
When the family has sharedvision and shared strength, they
grow, and that's really awonderful starting point.
Let me give you a coupleexamples of why a family needs a
plan.
Families thrive when they sharethat common goal.
And since you're going to bedoing it on some kind of regular
basis, you know the goalschange.
(18:11):
Planning reduces stress andbuilds trust.
And there can't be anything morethat children are looking for
than that element of trust.
Encouraging open communicationand shared values is the example
of what you're trying to do as aparent.
And if that doesn't help reallypush the needle for the family
(18:33):
to grow, that's probably thebiggest challenge that they're
going to have.
Family goals are like financialmilestones, i.e., like our
college example that we talkedabout, health and wellness
routines, having some fun withtravel experiences, and then
looking at education as personalgrowth and maybe doing some
(18:56):
hobbies from that experience.
They're all things that actuallyhelp that process.
SPEAKER_00 (19:01):
So, John, that must impact the whole family's
well-being.
And I think back during 2008,2009, and the economy was really
tough, and I was going to losemy job.
I was looking for another job.
So I found another job.
Unfortunately, it was 200 milesaway.
And I commuted for four and ahalf years every week so that my
daughter could go to high schoolwith her junior high friends.
(19:22):
And my mother was living withus, and she had doctor issues
and dialysis and wanted to notuproot any of that.
But I needed to provide for thefamily, and this was the optimal
way to do so.
And I missed some of my kids'events that occurred during the
week.
And we all sacrificed somethingduring that time.
But I can tell you, and you canask them, we emerged better as a
family unit.
(19:43):
So structure really does helpkids thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And families with routines aremore resilient during crises.
And that I think even the powerto handle illnesses.
The advantages also helps interms of unity, like we talked
about, where everyone feels partof that journey.
That there is that adaptabilityto plans where they can see
(20:09):
those changes in terms of howlife pushes you in a new
direction.
That GPS starts to kick in.
And there's that emotionalsafety that planning reduces
uncertainty.
SPEAKER_00 (20:19):
So, John, this is really interesting and valuable
information.
So, what's the most importanttakeaway we should remember from
this?
SPEAKER_01 (20:27):
Create a direction.
And it's not going to beperfection, it's about the
process.
Start small, keep consistent,and adjust as you go.
Life balance means setting adirection for your family so
that everyone knows what ispossible and how to dream.
SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
Well, I can tell you, even small improvements in
planning and routine can lead tobig, huge changes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:52):
Yeah, exactly.
And what a perfect moment uh inorder to try to do that plan for
yourself.
That would be right now.
This is the perfect time tostart.
If you haven't done it, you needto do it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:06):
So to wrap up, planning helps organizations
with direction, staffing, goals,and yes, career development,
that personal development.
The same skills apply topersonal life.
Planning your career, yourfamily goals, do that together.
That will reduce conflict andwith regular updates and less
drama at home.
SPEAKER_01 (21:26):
I couldn't have said it better.
Exactly.
Planning is really an importanttool, and it can really give you
an opportunity to find life isless stressful, and you can have
a better chance to enjoy it.
So if you like what you'veheard, I've written a book
called Building Your LeadershipToolbox, and we talk about tools
(21:49):
like this, and it's available onAmazon and Barnes and Noble and
other sites.
The podcast is what you've beenlistening to.
Thank you so much.
It's also available on Apple,Google, and Spotify.
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr.
Durst in his MBR program.
If you'd like to know more aboutDr.
Durst, you can find out onSuccessGrowthAcademy.com.
(22:11):
And if you'd like to contact us,please send me a line.
That's Wando75 periodjw atgmail.com.
And the music has been broughtto you by my grandson.
So we want to hear from you.
Drop me a line.
Tell me what's going on, whatyou like, and what you would
like to hear about.
(22:31):
It has always helped us tocreate content.
Thanks, Greg.
This was fun.
Thanks, John.
As always.
Next time.
Yeah.
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