April 18, 2025 • 27 mins
Forget every leadership trend you've heard about—2025 demands one skill above all others: Resilience. This captivating discussion between hosts John Wandolowski and Greg Powell delves deep into why resilience has become the cornerstone of effective leadership in today's volatile world.
Drawing from Forbes Council member Gina Martin's powerful insights, we explore how resilience goes beyond merely enduring challenges to actually thriving because of them. Martin's own journey—arriving as an immigrant with just $300, a child in her arms, and limited English skills, then rising to lead teams of 600 people—exemplifies the transformative power of bouncing back stronger after each setback.
We break down six practical strategies for cultivating this essential leadership muscle: practicing authentic optimism, embracing adaptability, building endurance, developing clear vision, mastering stress management, and creating strong support systems. Through personal stories and hard-earned wisdom, we reveal how these approaches can help you navigate uncertainty while maintaining focus on long-term objectives.
As we navigate political turbulence, cultural shifts, and economic volatility in 2025, this conversation offers a roadmap for becoming the resilient leader your organization desperately needs. Remember, as Nelson Mandela wisely noted, success isn't measured by achievements alone, but by "how many times I have fallen and got back up again."
Ready to strengthen your leadership resilience? Visit authorja.com to connect with us directly or explore successgrowthacademy.com to learn more about the Management by Responsibility program that has shaped our leadership approaches. The true measure of your leadership might not be how you handle success, but how effectively you rise after falling.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Well, hello and welcome to Success Secrets and
Stories, our podcast.
I am your host, john Winoloski,and I'm here with my host and
friend, greg Powell, greg heyeverybody, yeah.
And today our podcast.
We're going to talk about aninteresting subject called
(00:39):
resilience, and I can't think ofa more impactful term that
would be relevant for today'sworld than resilience, because
if you're not resilient, you'rereally going to have a challenge
in 2025.
So when I did some research onour subject for today, I found
(00:59):
this wonderful article and it'sResilience the Most Coveted
Leadership Skill for 2025 byGina Martin, and she is a Forbes
Council member.
This was from the Forbeswebsite.
She's an executive coach andorganizational consultant.
Her roots are as a firstgeneration immigrant and single
(01:22):
mother, and I will talk a littlebit more about her story, but
she's also on the Forbes CoachesCouncil and this article was
written in January 22nd of 2025.
Her overview is leadership in2025 demands strength that
doesn't merely endure challenges, demands strength that doesn't
(01:47):
merely endure challenges, butthrives because of them.
That strength is resilience theability to adapt, to recover
and to evolve in adversity.
Resilience has become more thanjust a personal quality.
She believes that it is acritical element of a leadership
skill that drives organizationsto success, team development
and personal growth.
Leaders must navigate politicaluncertainty, cultural shifts
(02:14):
and economical volatility in theareas to consistent change.
Resilience provides thefoundation for effective
leadership, enabling us to guideour teams and help
organizations throughdistributions and issues in
terms of goals and stayingfocused and looking for the
(02:34):
long-term.
So a little bit about GinaMartin.
Resilience, I think, is acornerstone of her journey, as
she states.
When she was 18, as animmigrant and only $300 in her
pocket and a child in her armsand no real understanding of the
English language, she worked atentry-level positions and then
(02:59):
worked through the retailsupervisor position.
Over two decades she rose to adirector level, leading teams of
over 600 people, balancing thedemands of motherhood and
tackling the professionalchallenges.
What I thought was interestingon all the things that she
talked about was her final quote.
(03:20):
As Nelson Mandela would say, donot judge me by my successes.
Judge me by how many times Ihave fallen and got back up
again.
This principle was what shesays was their guiding light in
terms of leadership and ithelped change how she actually
talked to others and otherleaders to help them build that
(03:41):
resilience to succeed.
Greg, maybe you can kind of setus up a little bit on the
resilience side of it.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Thanks, john.
So why is resilience essentialto leadership?
Modern leaders face complexchallenges today.
Right, there's political issues, cultural, economic forces that
are making folks crazy andcreating some instability.
A lot of pressure that impactsorganizations and people on
their teams.
But even with this environment,resilient leaders are equipped
(04:12):
to do several things.
First, they can navigateuncertainty.
Resilient leaders remain calmand focused during change,
providing stability for theirteams.
They also drive organizationalgoals.
They persist through setbacks,maintaining a commitment to
long-term objectives.
We used to call it laser-likefocus.
(04:33):
Those leaders have that Inspireand empower teams.
The leader's stability fosterstrust and confidence in all
their people.
Adapt and innovate.
These leaders embrace change.
They learn from making mistakes, identify the opportunities
within challenges.
So resilience is not aninherent trait, but a skill that
(04:56):
can be cultivated intentionally.
Building resilience requiresdeveloping the mindset and
habits to thrive under pressure.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
John.
So in her article she broke itdown to six strategies and, as I
was explaining to Greg, everytime I went through the six
points, which were so on thepoint that my mind started to
think of different examples.
So we're going to actually havesome fun with this a little bit
and talk about the subjectsthat she brought up.
Her first one is practiceoptimism.
As she puts it, agrowth-oriented mindset enables
(05:31):
leaders to see opportunities andchallenges.
Optimism doesn't mean ignoringdifficulties, but believing in
the possibility and solutionsand committing to finding them.
To foster optimism, things arelike reframing challenges as
opportunities We've all heardthat.
Or focusing on what you can do,that you can control, rather
(05:55):
than dwelling on the things thatyou cannot.
Or celebrating the smallvictories as that momentum and
confidence builds.
But when I thought about it, asa leader, you have the ability
to set the tone as a team.
Navigating the things thatundermine progress.
Positivity and focus helpsachieve some of those and
(06:16):
inspire success.
You have to understand how youraudience is actually receiving
it.
That takes the engagement andbeing in the now, as the
challenges arise, and lookingfor the alternatives.
You're doing things likefostering the what-if statement
scenarios.
Your optimism is going to bewhat that team needs, especially
(06:40):
if your optimism and whatyou're looking at is trying to
improve or reinforce yourorganization.
They're going to be looking atthings like your body language,
your expressions, your tone ofvoice.
All those things are powerfultools to help people, to
motivate people to understandthe optimistic approach that
you're trying to basicallyproject.
(07:02):
Optimism is how you are beingreceived, because, as a leader,
you have to give that example.
Greg, I think you have a coupleideas about optimism too.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yes, thanks, John.
To me, optimism starts out withbeing authentically optimistic.
No BS here.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I look at the glass being half full and water in the
glass is clear, not murky.
Wait, what do you mean?
Clear, it is crystal clear.
Sky's the limit.
Okay, okay.
And as a leader, you have tomodel that optimism.
If you don't really believe it,your staff will know it.
They'll see right through you.
You need to stand tall andflash an image of confidence and
(07:48):
optimism.
So let's move over to embraceadaptability.
Flexibility and openness tochange are critical in today's
dynamic environment.
John and I could have told youit was dynamic 40 years ago.
Nothing like that today.
It is so fast moving, so everchanging.
So resilient leaders staycurious.
They pivot right, they shiftwhen needed and continuously
(08:10):
evolve to meet shifting demands.
To enhance adaptability, do afew things here.
I've got three of them Seek andact on feedback.
I like to say feedback is agift.
This is when you're going touse it.
Stay informed about trends andchanges in your industry.
Right, you need to be thesubject matter expert on your
discipline and encouragecreative problem solving with
(08:33):
your team.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
John, it's that mindset of being in the now,
like we talked about with DrDurst, staying informed and
engaged and having a pulse ofwhat's going on in your industry
and not depending upon history,because that's the ever famous.
(08:57):
We've already done that.
We can't do that ever again.
If they did it eight years ago,you're supposed to really kind
of challenge.
Maybe you did it wrong eightyears ago.
It doesn't mean thatconceptually it's a bad idea.
It's trying to give people theability to think out of the box,
(09:24):
to be creative, to have somefun with the subject for what
it's worth and to pivot wheneveryou have enough information,
like if you're dealing with amarket environment and you have
people that are talking aboutelectric cars and what I find
interesting.
Right now, the industry ismoving towards hybrid cars.
Why?
Well, because people understandthe concept of trying to do
better with fuel, but they don'twant to deal with all the
things that are really thechallenge of an electric car.
(09:44):
A hybrid is a wonderful mix andthey can't make enough of the
hybrids.
That kind of being adaptable isreally the key.
Greg, you have a couple ofthose.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I sure do, john, when I think about some of my
experience in the past.
You, as a leader, have todemonstrate you can think out of
the box, and brainstormingactivities with your team are
really good things to do,meaning nothing's off the table.
Let's throw that idea up.
Let's work it.
We may find out it's not thebest idea, but we might find the
second best idea right behindit.
So don't be distracted.
Show laser-like focus on theprimary issues that you're
(10:16):
working on, but exhibitleadership, presence Again,
adaptability.
If you don't do it, your peoplearen't going to do it, john.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, and then we're talking.
The next point she brings up is, I think, another great example
Building endurance.
Leaders require stamina, bothmentally and physically.
Resilience in terms ofleadership is the ability to
sustain energy, to focus, tocommit over time and to thrive.
(10:47):
Energy to focus, to commit overtime and to thrive.
To cultivate endurance.
Prioritizing your physicalhealth in terms of exercise,
nutrition and rest, developingmental toughness and a
mindfulness and the elements ofusing stress relief management
techniques to try to minimizethat stress effect.
Stay committed to your goalseven when the progress is slow.
(11:10):
Endurance, doing the long-term.
And again, when I hear some ofthese key points that she's
talking about, I rememberworking 12-hour, 14-hour days
and for some reason, I thoughtthat I was doing clearly more
work and more volume.
And I had one of thesupervisors tell me well, I
(11:33):
wouldn't brag about yourincompetence because I can do a
similar job and I only spendeight hours a day doing it.
Now, I didn't want to bring upthe point that the results are
different, but he did make anextremely important point.
Are different, but he did makean extremely important point.
You can spend all your lifeworking and you're going to lose
your family in the process.
(11:53):
Have a work balance.
I thought it was another way tomake sure that you had the
endurance.
You had that next piece ofbeing able to handle the
pressure.
Greg, I think you had anotherinsight along the same lines.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I do, john.
Some of building endurancecomes from just plain working
smart, not just hard.
Right, hard work is there, butwork smart.
I remember a former seniorleader looked at a group of us
and said you know what, guys?
We don't have to do dumb.
And he said what he goes.
Let me repeat myself we don'thave to do dumb, we can be smart
.
We can change our course ofdirection right, and he was
(12:33):
absolutely right.
Just because we were on a path,it may not have been the right
path.
As a leader, you have toremember that oftentimes the
work project is a marathon, nota sprint.
You have to be realistic withhow much your team can handle,
how much business time can bematched to your team's efforts.
So building endurance will helpyou in the long haul.
Let's talk a little bit aboutdeveloping vision.
A clear sense of purpose anddirection fuels resilience.
(12:55):
Resilient leaders connect theiractions to their values and
goals, motivating themselves andtheir teams through adversity.
So, to refine your vision,regularly revisit your goals and
ensure alignment with yourvalues Vision, mission values
you probably heard those wordsReal, important.
Communicate your vision to yourteam.
You don't just put it on athree by five card, in a
(13:17):
notebook or in your pocket ofyour jacket.
Communicate that to your team,connecting their work to the
larger purpose, because that'spart of your job.
You're connecting them to thebig vision, right, and you have
to help them see that and useyour vision to maintain focus
during challenging times,because it can really get out of
hand.
And, as a leader, if you say,okay, what are we trying to do
here?
Again, what's our primedirective?
Keep repeating that.
(13:38):
Share that with your team,right, and that'll keep you on
the straight and narrow.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
John.
For me, I think the thing thatwas probably the most specific
was when I was asked to do afive-year plan, and it was one
of those five-year plans theycall a master plan.
In an industrial application,it's also a five-year plan for
your family and a five-year planfor your career.
I was doing all three of thosebecause the subject of planning
(14:05):
forward was something that Ilearned from a course called
Management by Responsibility byDr Durst, and it really did
focus the impact of planning andgoing to the point where it was
personal and professional.
I think that was one of the bestthings that I ever did.
It actually focused myambitions in terms of my career.
(14:27):
It actually focused myambitions in terms of my career,
but it made me a very effectiveleader in terms of getting the
goals and finishing projectsahead of time and getting the
results that they were lookingfor.
Those were all the kind ofbells and whistles that were
going off when I was talkingabout this subject.
When it said vision, you'reresponsible for developing that
vision.
It isn't something that comesfrom above and then you
(14:50):
implement it.
You're supposed to be involvedin that process.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Greg, yeah, john.
So when I think about mybackground, whether it was in
sales or first-line supervisorymanagement, one of the first
things that really got myattention was a formal training
session.
It's a two-week course onstrategic planning.
Because my planning was getthrough the day, get through the
week for myself and my team.
Right I'm just being honestright, hit the gold numbers and
that was it.
And I didn't think beyondday-to-day, hour-by-hour project
(15:18):
planning and that took me tothe big picture.
But what I learned about visionwas periodically refine the
vision, see if maybe the visionshould change and finally
communicate that vision.
Communicate it up down,laterally, essentially to
anybody that would listen on aregular basis.
Communicate that vision so theyknow it as well as you do and
(15:41):
they expect that from you.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Sure.
Her next subject is masteringstress management.
Next subject is masteringstress management.
As she puts it, unmanagedstress can erode resilience.
No-transcript To manage stress.
(16:03):
She identifies things likecreating a strategy to identify
the stressors and address themdirectly.
Practice center techniques suchas deep breathing, meditation
or filling out a journal.
Establishing boundaries andprioritize self-care to maintain
(16:25):
balance.
Establishing boundaries andprioritize self-care to maintain
balance.
For me, I think, when I thinkabout stress management, I had
so much stress at one time in mycareer that I was dealing with
(16:45):
hypertension.
I would get them on theweekends when I had time off,
and I found out later fromasking for help that that's when
the body relaxes and the realpressure starts to take hold and
that's when the headaches willcome in.
That's the amount of pressure Iwas under and I was dealing
with come in.
(17:07):
That's the amount of pressure Iwas under and I was dealing
with.
If you don't know how to managethe stress, like for me, I was
listening to music without words, so that I wouldn't hear any
words.
That would let my mind relax.
I learned how to do stressrelief exercise.
I spend more time with myfamily.
You understand this patternthat I'm discussing.
It's managing stress.
Don't be a victim of it.
(17:27):
The bottom line is I quit thejob that was stressing me out
and I moved on, and that was theother part of managing stress.
If you know that it's alose-lose, don't quit Actively.
Look for the next place andmove on.
You're in charge of your career.
That's a little bit about that.
You know having the vision andhaving a five-year plan.
(17:47):
When you see that it's off therails, do something about it.
Make it the change.
Don't wait for the change tohappen to you.
You don't want to be fired andlook for a job because you're so
frustrated.
You've quit on the job.
Greg, maybe you can talk aboutstress management from your
perspective.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Thanks, john, absolutely.
And I think of something that Iheard early in my career that I
didn't like, and that is stressis a great motivator.
And I thought why would I wantto motivate people to stress?
That's just crazy.
But my dad had an interestingperspective After he retired.
He'd been in the military,worked for the government, he'd
been in a couple of world warsand he said, son, stress will
(18:27):
kill you and I thought it wassomething people say.
But he was very serious and heended up having some heart
issues because he hadn't managedall the stress.
But he wanted his boys to besmarter with that.
So for me, music meditationhelped me manage my stress In
extreme situations.
Walking around the work complex,john, I've talked about that
before getting some fresh air,clear your head a little bit.
(18:52):
The right kind of music, likeJohn, works to soothe me as well
.
Slow that heart rate down a bit.
But stress management is stilla huge issue and it is not going
away.
So find a way for you and yourteam to manage it.
So building support systems isnumber six.
No leader builds resiliencealone.
A strong support system isessential for navigating the ups
and downs of leadership.
So surround yourself withseveral things here.
(19:13):
One trusted mentors orexecutive coaches.
Two peer groups of fellowleaders who understand your
challenges.
They can relate to you and youcan relate to them.
Three family, friends orcolleagues who offer
encouragement and perspective,not just people telling you what
(19:38):
you want to hear.
Right, and then make sureresilient leaders extend their
support to their teams as well.
So not just for you, but makesure that folks on your team
have access as well.
John.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, and when these subjects just fired off all
kinds of things in my head thatpeople don't spend time in
organizations any longer, like Ihave a professional team that I
get together with as part ofASHI, the American Society of
Healthcare Engineers, and theydid a lot in terms of keeping me
(20:07):
grounded, giving me resourcesthat I could deal with as a
professional side of it, butthey were also my connection.
They were, they were my supportgroup.
Um, I would have people thatwould call up and I would ask
for their help and their input.
Greg, you, you were, you weremore than one occasion that I
had called you and asked foryour support and your input and
(20:29):
your guidance and you buildthose relationships.
And I'll say something elseGuys do a lousy job at this.
Women do a very good job ofdeveloping a network and a group
in terms of building thatinternal support system.
We have to spend more time asmen doing that.
(20:50):
The real point is build yourteam.
It isn't going to happen andyou have to put the effort in it
and it's going to take away alittle bit of your time, but if
you're doing it, like for me, byworking with professional
engineers and working withinthat kind of group that helped
me not only with progressing onwith my career but gave me
(21:10):
opportunities for connectionsand opportunities to actually
work for other companies thatthey worked for.
So spending the time to makethose contexts is really
critical and is kind of like alost art, greg.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Thanks, john.
Yeah, no question, building asupport system is required to
help you maintain your sanityand the sanity of others that
need your assistance, and I doecho John's sentiments regarding
this podcast, for instance, aswe've been connected for 40
years and I consider John partof my personal support group as
well.
It's interesting in humanresources.
There's lots of opportunities,as like with engineers and
(21:47):
lawyers and finance people.
We had a group called HARMACHuman Resource Management
Association of Chicago, sodifferent levels of HR
leadership and individualcontributors would get together
for monthly meetings.
There would be topics thatpeople would present, discuss,
and it was a great community ofsafe harbor for issues that you
had some questions about and youwanted to get some assistance
for.
(22:07):
Also, you think about theconferences and some people say
I don't need to go to thatconference, they're just going
to take my money, I'm going tohave a lousy lunch.
No, you network, you meetpeople and you talk to them
about where are they gettinginformation and share.
It's an exchange.
So get out there and networkand help build that support
system out there and network andhelp build that support system
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So a little bit of her next point is resilient as a
leadership muscle, which iskind of an interesting concept.
Resilience is like a musclethat needs to grow stronger.
With consistent practice,intentional efforts to help
build those skills, that mindset, the habits needed to lead
(22:47):
confidently and gracefully,resilience will be our greatest
ally when navigatingorganizational change, personal
change and ambitious goals.
Resilience has been thefoundation for the author's
journey, especially coming tothe United States with $300,
dealing with leading teams,transitioning careers, building
(23:11):
a business and the challenges inher life in terms of battling
cancer.
All those things were part ofwhat she did in terms of
developing that muscle, thatresilience.
I can't think of a betterexercise than doing things like
what Greg and I are doing with apodcast.
(23:31):
I'm exercising my mind, I'mtrying to do something with a
friend and it's been just one ofthose opportunities and a
platform to have some fun andknow that I'm helping others.
It's a wonderful exchange andit gives me a chance to try to
exercise the muscle and how todeal with the daily challenges
(23:51):
of life.
This has been a great exercisedoing the podcast, greg.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
So how does that song go?
I get knocked down, but I getup again.
You're never going to keep medown.
I get knocked down but I get upagain.
You're never going to keep medown.
I get knocked down, but I getup again.
You're never going to keep medown.
That's a resilient attitude,right?
This person has been punchingthe gut before got right back up
.
We've talked before about thefamous Mike Tyson saying
(24:19):
everybody's got a plan untilthey get punched in the mouth.
Right, yeah, so yeah,resilience means I can come back
from a bad plan, and I wouldargue that management resilience
should work like muscle memory.
It should repeat it all thetime.
It should be very comfortableto just roll off the tongue, so
to speak.
So let's talk a little bit aboutbuilding resilience in 2025 and
(24:40):
beyond.
So I believe resilience will bethe defining skill of effective
leadership.
Leaders who can cultivateresilience will guide their
organizations throughuncertainty, inspire their teams
and achieve lasting success.
Resilience isn't just aboutsurviving not at all.
It's about thriving right Inchaos.
Remember that book Thriving inChaos.
By practicing optimism,embracing adaptability, building
(25:04):
endurance, developing vision,managing stress and leaning on a
strong support system, you canbecome the resilient leader your
team and organization actuallyneed.
The measure of success is nothow many times you fall, but how
many times you rise.
So let resilience be thehallmark of your leadership
journey in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
John.
So, in summary, what's kind ofinteresting is that in 2025,
we're going to be tested interms of trade tariffs,
production restrictions,involved politics and
international business.
Just can you make more of aresilient challenge than what
we're living in right now?
(25:47):
These are the kind of skillsets that you need, and I think
it's a wonderful opportunity forthis article to talk about how
we need to practice resilience,greg.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
final comment yeah, John, just a simple one.
I like to say that the truemeasure of an individual is how
they handle adversity right.
So for leaders at all levels,resilience will be tested
because of the adversecircumstances we find the world
to be in today, John.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
So resilience was, I think, a pretty good subject and
Greg and I wanted to talk abouthow to break down these
different points and hopefullythat text added something to
your understanding of thesubjects, if you like what
you've heard, yeah, my book'savailable on Amazon and Barnes.
(26:41):
Noble, you're listening to ourpodcast, thank you.
And Noble, you're listening toour podcast, thank you.
We also have really utilized DrDurst's MBR program in this
podcast and you can find hisinformation on
successgrowthacademycom.
If you want to contact us, wehave a website.
It's authorjawcom.
(27:03):
Send us a line and the musichas been brought to you by my
grandson.
So hopefully this resilientconversation was helpful.
We want to hear from you.
If you have any input or anysuggestions, let us know.
So thanks, greg.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Thanks, John, as always next time.
Yeah.
Well, hello and welcome to Success Secrets and
Stories, our podcast.
I am your host, john Winoloski,and I'm here with my host and
friend, greg Powell, greg heyeverybody, yeah.
And today our podcast.
We're going to talk about aninteresting subject called
(00:39):
resilience, and I can't think ofa more impactful term that
would be relevant for today'sworld than resilience, because
if you're not resilient, you'rereally going to have a challenge
in 2025.
So when I did some research onour subject for today, I found
(00:59):
this wonderful article and it'sResilience the Most Coveted
Leadership Skill for 2025 byGina Martin, and she is a Forbes
Council member.
This was from the Forbeswebsite.
She's an executive coach andorganizational consultant.
Her roots are as a firstgeneration immigrant and single
(01:22):
mother, and I will talk a littlebit more about her story, but
she's also on the Forbes CoachesCouncil and this article was
written in January 22nd of 2025.
Her overview is leadership in2025 demands strength that
doesn't merely endure challenges, demands strength that doesn't
(01:47):
merely endure challenges, butthrives because of them.
That strength is resilience theability to adapt, to recover
and to evolve in adversity.
Resilience has become more thanjust a personal quality.
She believes that it is acritical element of a leadership
skill that drives organizationsto success, team development
and personal growth.
Leaders must navigate politicaluncertainty, cultural shifts
(02:14):
and economical volatility in theareas to consistent change.
Resilience provides thefoundation for effective
leadership, enabling us to guideour teams and help
organizations throughdistributions and issues in
terms of goals and stayingfocused and looking for the
(02:34):
long-term.
So a little bit about GinaMartin.
Resilience, I think, is acornerstone of her journey, as
she states.
When she was 18, as animmigrant and only $300 in her
pocket and a child in her armsand no real understanding of the
English language, she worked atentry-level positions and then
(02:59):
worked through the retailsupervisor position.
Over two decades she rose to adirector level, leading teams of
over 600 people, balancing thedemands of motherhood and
tackling the professionalchallenges.
What I thought was interestingon all the things that she
talked about was her final quote.
(03:20):
As Nelson Mandela would say, donot judge me by my successes.
Judge me by how many times Ihave fallen and got back up
again.
This principle was what shesays was their guiding light in
terms of leadership and ithelped change how she actually
talked to others and otherleaders to help them build that
(03:41):
resilience to succeed.
Greg, maybe you can kind of setus up a little bit on the
resilience side of it.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Thanks, john.
So why is resilience essentialto leadership?
Modern leaders face complexchallenges today.
Right, there's political issues, cultural, economic forces that
are making folks crazy andcreating some instability.
A lot of pressure that impactsorganizations and people on
their teams.
But even with this environment,resilient leaders are equipped
(04:12):
to do several things.
First, they can navigateuncertainty.
Resilient leaders remain calmand focused during change,
providing stability for theirteams.
They also drive organizationalgoals.
They persist through setbacks,maintaining a commitment to
long-term objectives.
We used to call it laser-likefocus.
(04:33):
Those leaders have that Inspireand empower teams.
The leader's stability fosterstrust and confidence in all
their people.
Adapt and innovate.
These leaders embrace change.
They learn from making mistakes, identify the opportunities
within challenges.
So resilience is not aninherent trait, but a skill that
(04:56):
can be cultivated intentionally.
Building resilience requiresdeveloping the mindset and
habits to thrive under pressure.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
John.
So in her article she broke itdown to six strategies and, as I
was explaining to Greg, everytime I went through the six
points, which were so on thepoint that my mind started to
think of different examples.
So we're going to actually havesome fun with this a little bit
and talk about the subjectsthat she brought up.
Her first one is practiceoptimism.
As she puts it, agrowth-oriented mindset enables
(05:31):
leaders to see opportunities andchallenges.
Optimism doesn't mean ignoringdifficulties, but believing in
the possibility and solutionsand committing to finding them.
To foster optimism, things arelike reframing challenges as
opportunities We've all heardthat.
Or focusing on what you can do,that you can control, rather
(05:55):
than dwelling on the things thatyou cannot.
Or celebrating the smallvictories as that momentum and
confidence builds.
But when I thought about it, asa leader, you have the ability
to set the tone as a team.
Navigating the things thatundermine progress.
Positivity and focus helpsachieve some of those and
(06:16):
inspire success.
You have to understand how youraudience is actually receiving
it.
That takes the engagement andbeing in the now, as the
challenges arise, and lookingfor the alternatives.
You're doing things likefostering the what-if statement
scenarios.
Your optimism is going to bewhat that team needs, especially
(06:40):
if your optimism and whatyou're looking at is trying to
improve or reinforce yourorganization.
They're going to be looking atthings like your body language,
your expressions, your tone ofvoice.
All those things are powerfultools to help people, to
motivate people to understandthe optimistic approach that
you're trying to basicallyproject.
(07:02):
Optimism is how you are beingreceived, because, as a leader,
you have to give that example.
Greg, I think you have a coupleideas about optimism too.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yes, thanks, John.
To me, optimism starts out withbeing authentically optimistic.
No BS here.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I look at the glass being half full and water in the
glass is clear, not murky.
Wait, what do you mean?
Clear, it is crystal clear.
Sky's the limit.
Okay, okay.
And as a leader, you have tomodel that optimism.
If you don't really believe it,your staff will know it.
They'll see right through you.
You need to stand tall andflash an image of confidence and
(07:48):
optimism.
So let's move over to embraceadaptability.
Flexibility and openness tochange are critical in today's
dynamic environment.
John and I could have told youit was dynamic 40 years ago.
Nothing like that today.
It is so fast moving, so everchanging.
So resilient leaders staycurious.
They pivot right, they shiftwhen needed and continuously
(08:10):
evolve to meet shifting demands.
To enhance adaptability, do afew things here.
I've got three of them Seek andact on feedback.
I like to say feedback is agift.
This is when you're going touse it.
Stay informed about trends andchanges in your industry.
Right, you need to be thesubject matter expert on your
discipline and encouragecreative problem solving with
(08:33):
your team.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
John, it's that mindset of being in the now,
like we talked about with DrDurst, staying informed and
engaged and having a pulse ofwhat's going on in your industry
and not depending upon history,because that's the ever famous.
(08:57):
We've already done that.
We can't do that ever again.
If they did it eight years ago,you're supposed to really kind
of challenge.
Maybe you did it wrong eightyears ago.
It doesn't mean thatconceptually it's a bad idea.
It's trying to give people theability to think out of the box,
(09:24):
to be creative, to have somefun with the subject for what
it's worth and to pivot wheneveryou have enough information,
like if you're dealing with amarket environment and you have
people that are talking aboutelectric cars and what I find
interesting.
Right now, the industry ismoving towards hybrid cars.
Why?
Well, because people understandthe concept of trying to do
better with fuel, but they don'twant to deal with all the
things that are really thechallenge of an electric car.
(09:44):
A hybrid is a wonderful mix andthey can't make enough of the
hybrids.
That kind of being adaptable isreally the key.
Greg, you have a couple ofthose.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I sure do, john, when I think about some of my
experience in the past.
You, as a leader, have todemonstrate you can think out of
the box, and brainstormingactivities with your team are
really good things to do,meaning nothing's off the table.
Let's throw that idea up.
Let's work it.
We may find out it's not thebest idea, but we might find the
second best idea right behindit.
So don't be distracted.
Show laser-like focus on theprimary issues that you're
(10:16):
working on, but exhibitleadership, presence Again,
adaptability.
If you don't do it, your peoplearen't going to do it, john.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, and then we're talking.
The next point she brings up is, I think, another great example
Building endurance.
Leaders require stamina, bothmentally and physically.
Resilience in terms ofleadership is the ability to
sustain energy, to focus, tocommit over time and to thrive.
(10:47):
Energy to focus, to commit overtime and to thrive.
To cultivate endurance.
Prioritizing your physicalhealth in terms of exercise,
nutrition and rest, developingmental toughness and a
mindfulness and the elements ofusing stress relief management
techniques to try to minimizethat stress effect.
Stay committed to your goalseven when the progress is slow.
(11:10):
Endurance, doing the long-term.
And again, when I hear some ofthese key points that she's
talking about, I rememberworking 12-hour, 14-hour days
and for some reason, I thoughtthat I was doing clearly more
work and more volume.
And I had one of thesupervisors tell me well, I
(11:33):
wouldn't brag about yourincompetence because I can do a
similar job and I only spendeight hours a day doing it.
Now, I didn't want to bring upthe point that the results are
different, but he did make anextremely important point.
Are different, but he did makean extremely important point.
You can spend all your lifeworking and you're going to lose
your family in the process.
(11:53):
Have a work balance.
I thought it was another way tomake sure that you had the
endurance.
You had that next piece ofbeing able to handle the
pressure.
Greg, I think you had anotherinsight along the same lines.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I do, john.
Some of building endurancecomes from just plain working
smart, not just hard.
Right, hard work is there, butwork smart.
I remember a former seniorleader looked at a group of us
and said you know what, guys?
We don't have to do dumb.
And he said what he goes.
Let me repeat myself we don'thave to do dumb, we can be smart
.
We can change our course ofdirection right, and he was
(12:33):
absolutely right.
Just because we were on a path,it may not have been the right
path.
As a leader, you have toremember that oftentimes the
work project is a marathon, nota sprint.
You have to be realistic withhow much your team can handle,
how much business time can bematched to your team's efforts.
So building endurance will helpyou in the long haul.
Let's talk a little bit aboutdeveloping vision.
A clear sense of purpose anddirection fuels resilience.
(12:55):
Resilient leaders connect theiractions to their values and
goals, motivating themselves andtheir teams through adversity.
So, to refine your vision,regularly revisit your goals and
ensure alignment with yourvalues Vision, mission values
you probably heard those wordsReal, important.
Communicate your vision to yourteam.
You don't just put it on athree by five card, in a
(13:17):
notebook or in your pocket ofyour jacket.
Communicate that to your team,connecting their work to the
larger purpose, because that'spart of your job.
You're connecting them to thebig vision, right, and you have
to help them see that and useyour vision to maintain focus
during challenging times,because it can really get out of
hand.
And, as a leader, if you say,okay, what are we trying to do
here?
Again, what's our primedirective?
Keep repeating that.
(13:38):
Share that with your team,right, and that'll keep you on
the straight and narrow.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
John.
For me, I think the thing thatwas probably the most specific
was when I was asked to do afive-year plan, and it was one
of those five-year plans theycall a master plan.
In an industrial application,it's also a five-year plan for
your family and a five-year planfor your career.
I was doing all three of thosebecause the subject of planning
(14:05):
forward was something that Ilearned from a course called
Management by Responsibility byDr Durst, and it really did
focus the impact of planning andgoing to the point where it was
personal and professional.
I think that was one of the bestthings that I ever did.
It actually focused myambitions in terms of my career.
(14:27):
It actually focused myambitions in terms of my career,
but it made me a very effectiveleader in terms of getting the
goals and finishing projectsahead of time and getting the
results that they were lookingfor.
Those were all the kind ofbells and whistles that were
going off when I was talkingabout this subject.
When it said vision, you'reresponsible for developing that
vision.
It isn't something that comesfrom above and then you
(14:50):
implement it.
You're supposed to be involvedin that process.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Greg, yeah, john.
So when I think about mybackground, whether it was in
sales or first-line supervisorymanagement, one of the first
things that really got myattention was a formal training
session.
It's a two-week course onstrategic planning.
Because my planning was getthrough the day, get through the
week for myself and my team.
Right I'm just being honestright, hit the gold numbers and
that was it.
And I didn't think beyondday-to-day, hour-by-hour project
(15:18):
planning and that took me tothe big picture.
But what I learned about visionwas periodically refine the
vision, see if maybe the visionshould change and finally
communicate that vision.
Communicate it up down,laterally, essentially to
anybody that would listen on aregular basis.
Communicate that vision so theyknow it as well as you do and
(15:41):
they expect that from you.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Sure.
Her next subject is masteringstress management.
Next subject is masteringstress management.
As she puts it, unmanagedstress can erode resilience.
No-transcript To manage stress.
(16:03):
She identifies things likecreating a strategy to identify
the stressors and address themdirectly.
Practice center techniques suchas deep breathing, meditation
or filling out a journal.
Establishing boundaries andprioritize self-care to maintain
(16:25):
balance.
Establishing boundaries andprioritize self-care to maintain
balance.
For me, I think, when I thinkabout stress management, I had
so much stress at one time in mycareer that I was dealing with
(16:45):
hypertension.
I would get them on theweekends when I had time off,
and I found out later fromasking for help that that's when
the body relaxes and the realpressure starts to take hold and
that's when the headaches willcome in.
That's the amount of pressure Iwas under and I was dealing
with come in.
(17:07):
That's the amount of pressure Iwas under and I was dealing
with.
If you don't know how to managethe stress, like for me, I was
listening to music without words, so that I wouldn't hear any
words.
That would let my mind relax.
I learned how to do stressrelief exercise.
I spend more time with myfamily.
You understand this patternthat I'm discussing.
It's managing stress.
Don't be a victim of it.
(17:27):
The bottom line is I quit thejob that was stressing me out
and I moved on, and that was theother part of managing stress.
If you know that it's alose-lose, don't quit Actively.
Look for the next place andmove on.
You're in charge of your career.
That's a little bit about that.
You know having the vision andhaving a five-year plan.
(17:47):
When you see that it's off therails, do something about it.
Make it the change.
Don't wait for the change tohappen to you.
You don't want to be fired andlook for a job because you're so
frustrated.
You've quit on the job.
Greg, maybe you can talk aboutstress management from your
perspective.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Thanks, john, absolutely.
And I think of something that Iheard early in my career that I
didn't like, and that is stressis a great motivator.
And I thought why would I wantto motivate people to stress?
That's just crazy.
But my dad had an interestingperspective After he retired.
He'd been in the military,worked for the government, he'd
been in a couple of world warsand he said, son, stress will
(18:27):
kill you and I thought it wassomething people say.
But he was very serious and heended up having some heart
issues because he hadn't managedall the stress.
But he wanted his boys to besmarter with that.
So for me, music meditationhelped me manage my stress In
extreme situations.
Walking around the work complex,john, I've talked about that
before getting some fresh air,clear your head a little bit.
(18:52):
The right kind of music, likeJohn, works to soothe me as well
.
Slow that heart rate down a bit.
But stress management is stilla huge issue and it is not going
away.
So find a way for you and yourteam to manage it.
So building support systems isnumber six.
No leader builds resiliencealone.
A strong support system isessential for navigating the ups
and downs of leadership.
So surround yourself withseveral things here.
(19:13):
One trusted mentors orexecutive coaches.
Two peer groups of fellowleaders who understand your
challenges.
They can relate to you and youcan relate to them.
Three family, friends orcolleagues who offer
encouragement and perspective,not just people telling you what
(19:38):
you want to hear.
Right, and then make sureresilient leaders extend their
support to their teams as well.
So not just for you, but makesure that folks on your team
have access as well.
John.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, and when these subjects just fired off all
kinds of things in my head thatpeople don't spend time in
organizations any longer, like Ihave a professional team that I
get together with as part ofASHI, the American Society of
Healthcare Engineers, and theydid a lot in terms of keeping me
(20:07):
grounded, giving me resourcesthat I could deal with as a
professional side of it, butthey were also my connection.
They were, they were my supportgroup.
Um, I would have people thatwould call up and I would ask
for their help and their input.
Greg, you, you were, you weremore than one occasion that I
had called you and asked foryour support and your input and
(20:29):
your guidance and you buildthose relationships.
And I'll say something elseGuys do a lousy job at this.
Women do a very good job ofdeveloping a network and a group
in terms of building thatinternal support system.
We have to spend more time asmen doing that.
(20:50):
The real point is build yourteam.
It isn't going to happen andyou have to put the effort in it
and it's going to take away alittle bit of your time, but if
you're doing it, like for me, byworking with professional
engineers and working withinthat kind of group that helped
me not only with progressing onwith my career but gave me
(21:10):
opportunities for connectionsand opportunities to actually
work for other companies thatthey worked for.
So spending the time to makethose contexts is really
critical and is kind of like alost art, greg.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Thanks, john.
Yeah, no question, building asupport system is required to
help you maintain your sanityand the sanity of others that
need your assistance, and I doecho John's sentiments regarding
this podcast, for instance, aswe've been connected for 40
years and I consider John partof my personal support group as
well.
It's interesting in humanresources.
There's lots of opportunities,as like with engineers and
(21:47):
lawyers and finance people.
We had a group called HARMACHuman Resource Management
Association of Chicago, sodifferent levels of HR
leadership and individualcontributors would get together
for monthly meetings.
There would be topics thatpeople would present, discuss,
and it was a great community ofsafe harbor for issues that you
had some questions about and youwanted to get some assistance
for.
(22:07):
Also, you think about theconferences and some people say
I don't need to go to thatconference, they're just going
to take my money, I'm going tohave a lousy lunch.
No, you network, you meetpeople and you talk to them
about where are they gettinginformation and share.
It's an exchange.
So get out there and networkand help build that support
system out there and network andhelp build that support system
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So a little bit of her next point is resilient as a
leadership muscle, which iskind of an interesting concept.
Resilience is like a musclethat needs to grow stronger.
With consistent practice,intentional efforts to help
build those skills, that mindset, the habits needed to lead
(22:47):
confidently and gracefully,resilience will be our greatest
ally when navigatingorganizational change, personal
change and ambitious goals.
Resilience has been thefoundation for the author's
journey, especially coming tothe United States with $300,
dealing with leading teams,transitioning careers, building
(23:11):
a business and the challenges inher life in terms of battling
cancer.
All those things were part ofwhat she did in terms of
developing that muscle, thatresilience.
I can't think of a betterexercise than doing things like
what Greg and I are doing with apodcast.
(23:31):
I'm exercising my mind, I'mtrying to do something with a
friend and it's been just one ofthose opportunities and a
platform to have some fun andknow that I'm helping others.
It's a wonderful exchange andit gives me a chance to try to
exercise the muscle and how todeal with the daily challenges
(23:51):
of life.
This has been a great exercisedoing the podcast, greg.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
So how does that song go?
I get knocked down, but I getup again.
You're never going to keep medown.
I get knocked down but I get upagain.
You're never going to keep medown.
I get knocked down, but I getup again.
You're never going to keep medown.
That's a resilient attitude,right?
This person has been punchingthe gut before got right back up
.
We've talked before about thefamous Mike Tyson saying
(24:19):
everybody's got a plan untilthey get punched in the mouth.
Right, yeah, so yeah,resilience means I can come back
from a bad plan, and I wouldargue that management resilience
should work like muscle memory.
It should repeat it all thetime.
It should be very comfortableto just roll off the tongue, so
to speak.
So let's talk a little bit aboutbuilding resilience in 2025 and
(24:40):
beyond.
So I believe resilience will bethe defining skill of effective
leadership.
Leaders who can cultivateresilience will guide their
organizations throughuncertainty, inspire their teams
and achieve lasting success.
Resilience isn't just aboutsurviving not at all.
It's about thriving right Inchaos.
Remember that book Thriving inChaos.
By practicing optimism,embracing adaptability, building
(25:04):
endurance, developing vision,managing stress and leaning on a
strong support system, you canbecome the resilient leader your
team and organization actuallyneed.
The measure of success is nothow many times you fall, but how
many times you rise.
So let resilience be thehallmark of your leadership
journey in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
John.
So, in summary, what's kind ofinteresting is that in 2025,
we're going to be tested interms of trade tariffs,
production restrictions,involved politics and
international business.
Just can you make more of aresilient challenge than what
we're living in right now?
(25:47):
These are the kind of skillsets that you need, and I think
it's a wonderful opportunity forthis article to talk about how
we need to practice resilience,greg.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
final comment yeah, John, just a simple one.
I like to say that the truemeasure of an individual is how
they handle adversity right.
So for leaders at all levels,resilience will be tested
because of the adversecircumstances we find the world
to be in today, John.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
So resilience was, I think, a pretty good subject and
Greg and I wanted to talk abouthow to break down these
different points and hopefullythat text added something to
your understanding of thesubjects, if you like what
you've heard, yeah, my book'savailable on Amazon and Barnes.
(26:41):
Noble, you're listening to ourpodcast, thank you.
And Noble, you're listening toour podcast, thank you.
We also have really utilized DrDurst's MBR program in this
podcast and you can find hisinformation on
successgrowthacademycom.
If you want to contact us, wehave a website.
It's authorjawcom.
(27:03):
Send us a line and the musichas been brought to you by my
grandson.
So hopefully this resilientconversation was helpful.
We want to hear from you.
If you have any input or anysuggestions, let us know.
So thanks, greg.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Thanks, John, as always next time.
Yeah.
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