March 5, 2025 • 23 mins
Can optimism truly be a leader's superpower in our unpredictable VUCA world? Join us for an insightful conversation with leadership coach Kelly Frazier Cox as we uncover how realistic optimism can transform challenges into opportunities. Drawing on our own stories and experiences, Greg Powell and I, John Wandolowski, explore the power of saying "yes" to possibilities, even in the face of adversity. We unpack the concept of realistic optimism, where acknowledging difficulties goes hand in hand with believing in the potential for improvement, creating a proactive leadership style that fuels teams with hope and purpose.
From contrasting the mindsets of optimistic and pessimistic leaders to sharing anecdotes from my career in human resources, we highlight how adopting a positive outlook can lead to beneficial outcomes, even in typically pessimistic environments like facilities management. Through personal reflections, we examine how past encounters with leaders of varying attitudes have shaped our own approaches to leadership. Whether you're navigating the volatile waters of a VUCA world or seeking to inspire those around you, this episode promises valuable insights into how optimism can not only transform leaders but also entire organizations.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, hello everyone and welcome to our podcast
Success Secrets and Stories.
I'm your host, john Winoleski,and I'm here with my co-host and
friend, greg Powell, greg.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hey everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah.
So we wanted to talk aboutsomething that I think is timely
for what's going on in ourworld, around us.
We wanted to talk aboutoptimism and I thought it was
kind of interesting, and we'lltalk about what we found as we
went through this little trailof bringing you to the subject
of optimism.
(01:01):
But how many people are onlyseeing the dark side of life is
very dangerous, and we have alot of people that are dealing
with depression and just dread,and there's so much more to life
that's around us.
Sometimes you can't smell theflowers and you can't hear the
birds.
You need to step back.
(01:22):
So I want to talk aboutoptimism and I thought it was a
great subject that we both thinkwe need more of.
In the process, I was trying tofind articles that I thought
would do a very good job ofpresenting the concepts, and the
first one I came across that Ithought was interesting was from
a digital magazine from theAESC group.
(01:43):
It's an electronic magazine, ifyou wish, about executive
talent, and the article wasOptimism, the Leadership's
Superpower.
And what I really liked was thevery beginning of the article
and they talked about a termVUCA world, VOCA world.
It's volatility, uncertainty,complexity and ambiguity and
(02:10):
from the context that weencounter change and every day
we wake from these newregulations quickly advancing
technologies, political changes,global events and so much more,
each having far-reachingimplications across the business
world.
And okay, At this point I'mthinking about, really, this is
an article about optimism likeokay, Um, but the context is
(02:37):
actually pretty good and the wayleaders and how they organize
their views and respond to thisVolca environment has a direct
impact on their business futureand their success.
They either see threats or theysee opportunities.
They can either ignore thechanging world around them or
forge ahead with pre-planningstrategies and to address the
(02:58):
realities head-on, Harness thepower of adaptability, agility,
resilience and to challengethose in terms of being an
opportunity.
So when this article talkedabout conflicting views of the
future and how the VUCA worldactually works, it was really an
(03:21):
opportunity for them to come upwith.
In the article, Paul Pullman,from Unilever, from 2009 to 2019
, talked about how to havedifferent strategies, not just
to identify the problem, but howto address it.
Greg, maybe you can help usAbsolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
John and, as John and I were talking earlier, I used
to work for Unilever before MrPullman was there, but they were
an international organizationknown for training and
development, leadership skillset cetera.
So companies need to developtheir own VUCA for success, the
volatility they need to developa roadmap that will require
vision.
Second item is uncertainty.
(04:01):
You need strategicunderstanding of the changes
underway.
That's essential.
Complexity the planning processand it is complex requires
clarity over implementation.
Right, you don't want to justslam it down and implement it
really quickly.
It needs to be clear.
And then an ambiguity thoseunforeseen events that will
(04:21):
place a premium on agility,ability to recover.
Recap, to move things forwardagain.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So when we were going through this, we found another
article that I thought was alittle bit more direct to the
subject of being an optimist,and it really started off with
success.
Go get it and, greg, maybe youcan set us up with, I think, a
better description of optimismfrom our discussion.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Thanks, sean.
We're going to call itembracing realistic optimism.
A woman by the name of KellyFrazier Cox.
She's a leadership coach, akeynote speaker.
She's an accomplished CCOgeneral manager, global head
board co-chair, and she'sactually been on the Ford
Coaches Council.
This comes from December 27th2024.
(05:13):
Embracing realistic optimism.
So, heading into the new year,we were filled with hope and
eager to set new goals.
Right, that's what we do.
The clock starts over.
We get excited as we capitalizeon the powerful energy to build
a better life, career andrelationships.
We have to remember it is achallenging situation to change.
A few weeks in, right January 1, and then now you're in the
(05:33):
second, third week of January.
We're often overwhelmed with theinevitable obstacles that come
with attempting to change.
So that fast start that you hadplanned now is slowing down.
Well, you're not alone.
The art of leading throughadversity isn't for the faint of
heart, but there's a littlesecret that's changed this
person's approach and might justreshape yours too, becoming a
(05:57):
realistic optimist.
So what is realistic optimism?
It's your leadership superpower.
Realistic optimism isn't aboutpretending that challenges don't
exist or some fantasy world.
It's about seeing things asthey are, but with a twist,
believing we can make thembetter.
It's that sweet spot betweenthe dreamers and the doers is
(06:20):
where hope actually meets action.
In our leadership journeys,this mindset shifts our focus
from merely reacting toproactively creating solutions.
It acknowledges the storm, butalso trusts in our ability to
sail through that storm.
It's about facing the facts,those cold, hard facts, however
tough they are, but alsolighting that candle instead of
(06:43):
cursing the darkness.
So why does it matter?
Let's get down to business here.
Imagine leading a team througha project that hit a snag right,
that little uh-oh bump in theroad we like to call it.
A realistic, optimist leaderdoesn't just throw up their
hands in despair or pretend thateverything is fine.
(07:03):
What do they do?
Instead, they assess what wentwrong.
They rally their team and saywe've got this, let's figure it
out together.
This approach doesn't justsolve the problem.
It builds trust and inspiresyour team to believe in you and
their abilities as your team, tobelieve in you and their
(07:27):
abilities.
So let's talk a little bitabout cultivating realistic
optimism.
I've got five points here.
The first one acknowledge thetough stuff right.
Don't hide behind some words.
If it's tough, it's tough.
Start by accepting that realityof the situation.
Be honest with yourself and theteam, and it's okay to
recognize when things arechallenging.
Succinctly summarize theproblem and then that's the
first step to getting thingsbetter.
(07:48):
What do you do next?
Number two anticipatechallenges.
Build resilience by statingpotential future obstacles.
You're looking ahead there.
Be proactive in acknowledgingthings won't go smoothly.
Don't lie to folks.
Walk through potential pitfallsright.
Open up our eyes right now whatcould happen?
But express confidence we'llmake it through, as long as we
work together.
When obstacles happen, it's nota shock, it's just easier to
(08:12):
see a path moving forward.
Number three plan withpositivity, not negativity.
Plan with positivity.
Once you've named the currentchallenges, switch gears to the
solutions mode.
Ask yourself what's one step Ican take right now to improve
the situation?
It's about finding actionablesteps that are within your
(08:35):
control that move you and yourteam forward.
Step four celebrate everylittle victory.
We used to call it wins.
Every little win adds uptowards a big win.
So go through a tough meeting,just get through it.
Solve a small part of a biggerproblem, right, hopefully.
(08:55):
Celebrate it.
Celebrate that little win, thatsuccess.
These little wins add up andkeep the momentum going.
Don't wait a year to highlightthem, but do them now, john.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I mean it's like one of the lines that I
used whenever we were trying todo this is every step forward is
a positive, but you have totake that first step, you have
to take that second step.
You don't have the end tape atthe end of the conversation.
It's your first day, your firstmeeting, your first week.
It's all progression and asmuch as the pessimists that are
(09:28):
in the room telling you thatyou're never going to get it
done, it's that first step,that's the most important, not
the last step, that's right.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
And you can have team meetings.
Build it into your cultureabout celebrating those little
victories, but stay focused,though, because things are still
tough times.
And then number five, the fifthelement here spread the
optimism.
Again.
You're a leader, right?
Share your hopeful outlook withyour team, including the
challenges you've overcome, socelebrate those successes.
(09:58):
We got through this.
We're still moving forward.
Your optimism is contagious andit can transform that energy
into your entire group, right?
Everybody becomes charged upwhen they see you leading with a
balance of realism andpositivity.
They're likely to mirror thatin their own work, because they
believe John.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
So she went on to talk about showing examples of
realistic optimism in action,and there's nothing worse than a
leader pretending thateverything is okay.
That isolates the leader fromfinding the solution and it
isolates the teams and the teammembers who think is it just me
(10:38):
or is everybody experiencingthis difficulty?
Me or is everybody experiencingthis difficulty?
These are the important momentsto be honest, to live your
values, to show your vision andto rally your team to get to
work together During thesechallenges.
Let's take an example likeCOVID, where we were in a
(10:59):
complete major restructure orthe 2008 recession or a CEO
change.
The first step is usuallycompeting.
Those five steps is what shewas using as a tool.
It was clear that the situationwas out of their control and
(11:20):
it's the process of how do youactually change and remind
yourself of achieving things.
During these difficult times,what team members and colleagues
and a broader network of peoplecan bring to a potential
solution is really the importantpart of action.
She goes on to say that shearmed herself with personal
confidence and drafted a planand then she would go to her
(11:46):
team.
There was a challenge and thepotential of a path, that the
outcome would be stronger thanthe situation that they were in.
The key is the conversationdoesn't stop there.
She would bring the questionsto the group, ask what's missing
, to see what they've seen intheir experience and where do we
start, how do we proceedCollectively?
(12:10):
They developed a final plan andwhen they had gone through all
the potential obstacles andwould see in terms of who was
going to address it, how it wasgoing to be addressed and that
would happen over severalmeetings, but it was an ongoing
process and over severalmeetings, but it was an ongoing
process Armed with a plan.
She felt that it was adistinctive role in terms of how
to collectively work as a groupfor success and to celebrate
(12:31):
that process.
I think the celebration part issomething that's missing in
other people's descriptions thatyou have to build that optimism
every step of the way.
It isn't something that youwait for the end.
You want to try to grow in thatsituation.
As she was wrapping up thisarticle, I think it was very
(12:55):
interesting to take it from herpoint of view and I'll read it
verbatim being a real optimisthas transformed how she leads
and how she lives her life.
It taught her how to understandthat she can't control
everything and she had theopportunity to choose her
(13:15):
responses.
By embracing that approach, youcan navigate through adversity,
you can learn through growthand lead the ways that are best
for yourself and those aroundyou.
So, when you're facing variousleadership challenges, let's
choose to be realistic optimists, to let and choose the approach
(13:38):
to be a leader that not onlystrives to improve our slice of
the world, but to inspire othersto believe that they can do the
same.
Here it is in terms ofdeveloping hope grounded in
reality, and to propel thebelief that the best is yet to
come, and to mean it to staypositive, to be proactive.
Proactive and we had a littleimage of an optimist and I think
(14:07):
it's kind of funny.
Greg, you want to describe ourimage for this concept,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
John.
So we've got two charactershere.
One is an optimist and one is apessimist.
Now the optimist looks likesunshine, right, almost a halo
around their head, yellow smileon their face, and this
individual thinks that this isthe best possible world to be in
.
Right, that's how they'relooking at life.
They got their foot out,they're kicking, they're like
(14:36):
dancing, but the pessimistliterally has a cloud, a rain
cloud, over their head.
They're wearing a frown,they're wearing dark clothing
and they're saying their fear isthat the negativity is true,
that bad things are going on,just a terrible situation to be
in.
So who do you want to be as aleader?
(14:57):
Do you want to be a reasonableoptimist or do you want to be a
negative pessimist?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
And what I thought was kind of funny is that the
description is like the personthat's the optimist is so
excited that it is like goingperfectly, and the other person
is like, yeah, what you think isthe perfect world is like the
worst thing I can think of.
It's like, oh, tell me, itisn't true, please.
So, greg, maybe we can talkabout our own examples of
(15:28):
optimism.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Thank you, john.
You know I would say that in mycareer I was an optimistic
leader and in the world of humanresources, a significant amount
of interactions are wrapped upin optimism.
So let me describe somebodycoming into my office.
No matter what level of HRleadership I was in, some
employees would say gosh, I'm sohopeful, greg, that I'm going
(15:50):
to get promoted next week or thenext cycle.
Gosh, I think I'm up for a payincrease.
That's going to happen right.
Or, you know, I'm overdue for aplum job.
You think I'll ever get a greatassignment?
You know, greg, I did thisgreat thing and I was told on
the side but I never got reallyany recognition for it.
You know what's going on here.
You know I got my performancereview and, as John and I talked
(16:11):
about those folks that aredoing them very rarely, it makes
it really difficult because aperson's hanging their hopes on
a positive review and if ithappens once a year and it's not
positive, despair sets in, andthen things like even internal
investigations and on and on andon.
So people come in wanting agreat outcome.
Right, that's what they'rehopeful.
(16:32):
Well, my personal philosophyhas always been I generally
believe the glass is half fulland I believe that the liquid
inside is clear.
That's just how I'm wired, okay, I also absolutely believe that
hope not also, but that hope isa good thing, right?
So instead of automaticallysaying, in an HR situation, no
(16:52):
to an HR-related request, Iwould say yes, sometimes it was
yes, but yes, sometimes it wasyes, and, and what that meant
was we can investigate, throughinquiry, the opportunity they
put in front of us and see whereit takes us.
So, unless it's absurd orunlawful, yeah, there's a chance
.
We're saying that somethingthat let's just give it a look.
(17:13):
It might be good for theorganization.
So let's take a chance.
I've said before many timesit's good to say three good
things about an idea before youshoot it down right, show that
you're really listening, providesome level of optimism.
So I've mentioned an absurdsituation.
So I had an employee come to meand actually a manager.
I said, greg, we're doing greatthis year the company goals.
(17:34):
We're going to max out on bonus.
Can I get in?
And this was like in lateNovember, early December,
getting ready for the holidays.
He said can I get an advance onmy bonus?
I said I hear what you'resaying and, yes, things are
trending well, but by policy andby the way the program's
structured, we can't pay it outuntil it's been approved and
(17:54):
it's got a retention piece on itas well.
So you have to stay here untilMarch to get it.
And he was like furious.
He's like, of course thiscompany makes all this money.
We're going to have all thisbonus money.
Certainly you could carve out acheck for me for a couple of
thousand dollars advance on mybonus.
That's what I mean when I sayabsurd.
That doesn't make sense.
Don't have any hope for that,don't do that.
(18:16):
But in that same vein, we hadbonus goals where we were kind
of getting close.
We're running out of time.
People worked a little harderand pushed it over the threshold
.
That's great.
We had reasonable hope, we hadgreat leadership, we had
optimism, we worked hard and wewere able to turn something that
wasn't looking as good intosomething that was very, very
good and that ended up being agreat payout for everyone when
(18:37):
the bonuses were distributed.
So in my line of work, optimismis extremely important, because
we're dealing with human beingsand they've got their fingers
crossed, john.
Because we're dealing withhuman beings and they've got
their fingers crossed, john.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And I think you know when I think back, we both had a
common example of a leader whowas a department head that was
talking about everything is rosy, everything is great,
everything was a party and therewas no meat on the bone.
He was nothing more than flashand awe.
There was no context and awonderful example of somebody
(19:12):
that I didn't want to emulateand, like yourself, I always
looked at it.
Everything was half full,mostly because you know we're
lucky that we're alive and thepeople that we have in our lives
.
But the people that I wasworking with, especially in in a
facilities environment, there'sthere's a fear of being
replaced.
(19:32):
They always think that a thirdparty can do it better,
especially when I worked for athird party, which made it
really interesting that thedouble whammy that happens
whenever you're in that kind ofenvironment and pessimism is
like everywhere, and you have tobe an optimist in that kind of
environment to show that there'sprogress, to show that the
things that we're doing areactually great examples of
(19:55):
leadership, things as simple aswork orders.
And then the humor that I wouldalways have is the pessimism of
people replacing these peoplethat are hard workers, and I
would talk about you know youhave this wonderful tool.
I can tell you that my successrate on this is very, very low.
But I would say that you havework orders and if you have
(20:16):
enough work orders in a givenweek and I know you all work and
at the end of the week I see 40hours of work being done every
week.
There's no way in the worldpeople would not understand how
much work you do.
But I know how you get caughtin the hallway and they, you
know, button hook you and youend up doing another 30 minute
(20:37):
job that isn't on paper but thenyou didn't write it down.
So you know a little bit abouthelping them to understand that
I'm trying to help you in thelong run and there's a lot of
great things that you do.
So it's always that coaching.
There was always thatencouraging.
And then I think the most funthat I've had as being a leader
(20:59):
was when I would turn around andsay, well, what would you do?
And a facilities perspective nota lot of the facility staff
were given the authority to act,even doing their own task, that
they were looking for directionto that level.
It's like no, tell me how youwould want to address it, put
together an action plan, pass itby me and let's get working on
(21:20):
it.
That empowerment was an amazingtool and the optimism and the
ownership, all those things kindof fall into place.
So being an optimistic leaderwas a kind of a very important
skill set to have, especiallyfrom a facilities perspective.
So you have, you know, greg,talking to somebody who should
(21:42):
know that a bonus is likerelated to a bonus and a timing
is kind of important.
A bonus is like related to abonus and a timing is kind of
important.
My conversation about being anoptimist is trying to help
people who are very pessimisticwithin their environment, within
their trade, by their ownnature, and you're trying to
(22:05):
save them from themselves.
(22:26):
No-transcript.
So, if you like what you'veheard, my book on leadership
called Building your LeadershipToolbox is available on Amazon
and Barnes and Noble.
Sorry, they have.
(22:47):
We have it in book formpaperback, hardcover.
The part that is kind of fun isthat we just did an audio book
and I'd strongly recommend it.
It's kind of fun and give it alisten.
Thank you for listening toSuccess Secrets and Stories on
the platform that you have.
It's also available on Appleand Google and Spotify and other
(23:08):
platforms.
A lot of what Greg and I talkabout is from Dr Durst and his
MBR program.
You can see more onsuccessgrowthacademycom, if
you'd like to contact us.
Our website is authorjawcom andthe music is brought to you by
my grandson, so we want to hearfrom you.
Give us a shout, help us tobuild the content and the
(23:31):
podcast that you would like tohear.
So thanks, greg.
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
John, as always.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Next time yeah.
You.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, hello everyone and welcome to our podcast
Success Secrets and Stories.
I'm your host, john Winoleski,and I'm here with my co-host and
friend, greg Powell, greg.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hey everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah.
So we wanted to talk aboutsomething that I think is timely
for what's going on in ourworld, around us.
We wanted to talk aboutoptimism and I thought it was
kind of interesting, and we'lltalk about what we found as we
went through this little trailof bringing you to the subject
of optimism.
(01:01):
But how many people are onlyseeing the dark side of life is
very dangerous, and we have alot of people that are dealing
with depression and just dread,and there's so much more to life
that's around us.
Sometimes you can't smell theflowers and you can't hear the
birds.
You need to step back.
(01:22):
So I want to talk aboutoptimism and I thought it was a
great subject that we both thinkwe need more of.
In the process, I was trying tofind articles that I thought
would do a very good job ofpresenting the concepts, and the
first one I came across that Ithought was interesting was from
a digital magazine from theAESC group.
(01:43):
It's an electronic magazine, ifyou wish, about executive
talent, and the article wasOptimism, the Leadership's
Superpower.
And what I really liked was thevery beginning of the article
and they talked about a termVUCA world, VOCA world.
It's volatility, uncertainty,complexity and ambiguity and
(02:10):
from the context that weencounter change and every day
we wake from these newregulations quickly advancing
technologies, political changes,global events and so much more,
each having far-reachingimplications across the business
world.
And okay, At this point I'mthinking about, really, this is
an article about optimism likeokay, Um, but the context is
(02:37):
actually pretty good and the wayleaders and how they organize
their views and respond to thisVolca environment has a direct
impact on their business futureand their success.
They either see threats or theysee opportunities.
They can either ignore thechanging world around them or
forge ahead with pre-planningstrategies and to address the
(02:58):
realities head-on, Harness thepower of adaptability, agility,
resilience and to challengethose in terms of being an
opportunity.
So when this article talkedabout conflicting views of the
future and how the VUCA worldactually works, it was really an
(03:21):
opportunity for them to come upwith.
In the article, Paul Pullman,from Unilever, from 2009 to 2019
, talked about how to havedifferent strategies, not just
to identify the problem, but howto address it.
Greg, maybe you can help usAbsolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
John and, as John and I were talking earlier, I used
to work for Unilever before MrPullman was there, but they were
an international organizationknown for training and
development, leadership skillset cetera.
So companies need to developtheir own VUCA for success, the
volatility they need to developa roadmap that will require
vision.
Second item is uncertainty.
(04:01):
You need strategicunderstanding of the changes
underway.
That's essential.
Complexity the planning processand it is complex requires
clarity over implementation.
Right, you don't want to justslam it down and implement it
really quickly.
It needs to be clear.
And then an ambiguity thoseunforeseen events that will
(04:21):
place a premium on agility,ability to recover.
Recap, to move things forwardagain.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So when we were going through this, we found another
article that I thought was alittle bit more direct to the
subject of being an optimist,and it really started off with
success.
Go get it and, greg, maybe youcan set us up with, I think, a
better description of optimismfrom our discussion.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Thanks, sean.
We're going to call itembracing realistic optimism.
A woman by the name of KellyFrazier Cox.
She's a leadership coach, akeynote speaker.
She's an accomplished CCOgeneral manager, global head
board co-chair, and she'sactually been on the Ford
Coaches Council.
This comes from December 27th2024.
(05:13):
Embracing realistic optimism.
So, heading into the new year,we were filled with hope and
eager to set new goals.
Right, that's what we do.
The clock starts over.
We get excited as we capitalizeon the powerful energy to build
a better life, career andrelationships.
We have to remember it is achallenging situation to change.
A few weeks in, right January 1, and then now you're in the
(05:33):
second, third week of January.
We're often overwhelmed with theinevitable obstacles that come
with attempting to change.
So that fast start that you hadplanned now is slowing down.
Well, you're not alone.
The art of leading throughadversity isn't for the faint of
heart, but there's a littlesecret that's changed this
person's approach and might justreshape yours too, becoming a
(05:57):
realistic optimist.
So what is realistic optimism?
It's your leadership superpower.
Realistic optimism isn't aboutpretending that challenges don't
exist or some fantasy world.
It's about seeing things asthey are, but with a twist,
believing we can make thembetter.
It's that sweet spot betweenthe dreamers and the doers is
(06:20):
where hope actually meets action.
In our leadership journeys,this mindset shifts our focus
from merely reacting toproactively creating solutions.
It acknowledges the storm, butalso trusts in our ability to
sail through that storm.
It's about facing the facts,those cold, hard facts, however
tough they are, but alsolighting that candle instead of
(06:43):
cursing the darkness.
So why does it matter?
Let's get down to business here.
Imagine leading a team througha project that hit a snag right,
that little uh-oh bump in theroad we like to call it.
A realistic, optimist leaderdoesn't just throw up their
hands in despair or pretend thateverything is fine.
(07:03):
What do they do?
Instead, they assess what wentwrong.
They rally their team and saywe've got this, let's figure it
out together.
This approach doesn't justsolve the problem.
It builds trust and inspiresyour team to believe in you and
their abilities as your team, tobelieve in you and their
(07:27):
abilities.
So let's talk a little bitabout cultivating realistic
optimism.
I've got five points here.
The first one acknowledge thetough stuff right.
Don't hide behind some words.
If it's tough, it's tough.
Start by accepting that realityof the situation.
Be honest with yourself and theteam, and it's okay to
recognize when things arechallenging.
Succinctly summarize theproblem and then that's the
first step to getting thingsbetter.
(07:48):
What do you do next?
Number two anticipatechallenges.
Build resilience by statingpotential future obstacles.
You're looking ahead there.
Be proactive in acknowledgingthings won't go smoothly.
Don't lie to folks.
Walk through potential pitfallsright.
Open up our eyes right now whatcould happen?
But express confidence we'llmake it through, as long as we
work together.
When obstacles happen, it's nota shock, it's just easier to
(08:12):
see a path moving forward.
Number three plan withpositivity, not negativity.
Plan with positivity.
Once you've named the currentchallenges, switch gears to the
solutions mode.
Ask yourself what's one step Ican take right now to improve
the situation?
It's about finding actionablesteps that are within your
(08:35):
control that move you and yourteam forward.
Step four celebrate everylittle victory.
We used to call it wins.
Every little win adds uptowards a big win.
So go through a tough meeting,just get through it.
Solve a small part of a biggerproblem, right, hopefully.
(08:55):
Celebrate it.
Celebrate that little win, thatsuccess.
These little wins add up andkeep the momentum going.
Don't wait a year to highlightthem, but do them now, john.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, I mean it's like one of the lines that I
used whenever we were trying todo this is every step forward is
a positive, but you have totake that first step, you have
to take that second step.
You don't have the end tape atthe end of the conversation.
It's your first day, your firstmeeting, your first week.
It's all progression and asmuch as the pessimists that are
(09:28):
in the room telling you thatyou're never going to get it
done, it's that first step,that's the most important, not
the last step, that's right.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
And you can have team meetings.
Build it into your cultureabout celebrating those little
victories, but stay focused,though, because things are still
tough times.
And then number five, the fifthelement here spread the
optimism.
Again.
You're a leader, right?
Share your hopeful outlook withyour team, including the
challenges you've overcome, socelebrate those successes.
(09:58):
We got through this.
We're still moving forward.
Your optimism is contagious andit can transform that energy
into your entire group, right?
Everybody becomes charged upwhen they see you leading with a
balance of realism andpositivity.
They're likely to mirror thatin their own work, because they
believe John.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
So she went on to talk about showing examples of
realistic optimism in action,and there's nothing worse than a
leader pretending thateverything is okay.
That isolates the leader fromfinding the solution and it
isolates the teams and the teammembers who think is it just me
(10:38):
or is everybody experiencingthis difficulty?
Me or is everybody experiencingthis difficulty?
These are the important momentsto be honest, to live your
values, to show your vision andto rally your team to get to
work together During thesechallenges.
Let's take an example likeCOVID, where we were in a
(10:59):
complete major restructure orthe 2008 recession or a CEO
change.
The first step is usuallycompeting.
Those five steps is what shewas using as a tool.
It was clear that the situationwas out of their control and
(11:20):
it's the process of how do youactually change and remind
yourself of achieving things.
During these difficult times,what team members and colleagues
and a broader network of peoplecan bring to a potential
solution is really the importantpart of action.
She goes on to say that shearmed herself with personal
confidence and drafted a planand then she would go to her
(11:46):
team.
There was a challenge and thepotential of a path, that the
outcome would be stronger thanthe situation that they were in.
The key is the conversationdoesn't stop there.
She would bring the questionsto the group, ask what's missing
, to see what they've seen intheir experience and where do we
start, how do we proceedCollectively?
(12:10):
They developed a final plan andwhen they had gone through all
the potential obstacles andwould see in terms of who was
going to address it, how it wasgoing to be addressed and that
would happen over severalmeetings, but it was an ongoing
process and over severalmeetings, but it was an ongoing
process Armed with a plan.
She felt that it was adistinctive role in terms of how
to collectively work as a groupfor success and to celebrate
(12:31):
that process.
I think the celebration part issomething that's missing in
other people's descriptions thatyou have to build that optimism
every step of the way.
It isn't something that youwait for the end.
You want to try to grow in thatsituation.
As she was wrapping up thisarticle, I think it was very
(12:55):
interesting to take it from herpoint of view and I'll read it
verbatim being a real optimisthas transformed how she leads
and how she lives her life.
It taught her how to understandthat she can't control
everything and she had theopportunity to choose her
(13:15):
responses.
By embracing that approach, youcan navigate through adversity,
you can learn through growthand lead the ways that are best
for yourself and those aroundyou.
So, when you're facing variousleadership challenges, let's
choose to be realistic optimists, to let and choose the approach
(13:38):
to be a leader that not onlystrives to improve our slice of
the world, but to inspire othersto believe that they can do the
same.
Here it is in terms ofdeveloping hope grounded in
reality, and to propel thebelief that the best is yet to
come, and to mean it to staypositive, to be proactive.
Proactive and we had a littleimage of an optimist and I think
(14:07):
it's kind of funny.
Greg, you want to describe ourimage for this concept,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
John.
So we've got two charactershere.
One is an optimist and one is apessimist.
Now the optimist looks likesunshine, right, almost a halo
around their head, yellow smileon their face, and this
individual thinks that this isthe best possible world to be in
.
Right, that's how they'relooking at life.
They got their foot out,they're kicking, they're like
(14:36):
dancing, but the pessimistliterally has a cloud, a rain
cloud, over their head.
They're wearing a frown,they're wearing dark clothing
and they're saying their fear isthat the negativity is true,
that bad things are going on,just a terrible situation to be
in.
So who do you want to be as aleader?
(14:57):
Do you want to be a reasonableoptimist or do you want to be a
negative pessimist?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
And what I thought was kind of funny is that the
description is like the personthat's the optimist is so
excited that it is like goingperfectly, and the other person
is like, yeah, what you think isthe perfect world is like the
worst thing I can think of.
It's like, oh, tell me, itisn't true, please.
So, greg, maybe we can talkabout our own examples of
(15:28):
optimism.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Thank you, john.
You know I would say that in mycareer I was an optimistic
leader and in the world of humanresources, a significant amount
of interactions are wrapped upin optimism.
So let me describe somebodycoming into my office.
No matter what level of HRleadership I was in, some
employees would say gosh, I'm sohopeful, greg, that I'm going
(15:50):
to get promoted next week or thenext cycle.
Gosh, I think I'm up for a payincrease.
That's going to happen right.
Or, you know, I'm overdue for aplum job.
You think I'll ever get a greatassignment?
You know, greg, I did thisgreat thing and I was told on
the side but I never got reallyany recognition for it.
You know what's going on here.
You know I got my performancereview and, as John and I talked
(16:11):
about those folks that aredoing them very rarely, it makes
it really difficult because aperson's hanging their hopes on
a positive review and if ithappens once a year and it's not
positive, despair sets in, andthen things like even internal
investigations and on and on andon.
So people come in wanting agreat outcome.
Right, that's what they'rehopeful.
(16:32):
Well, my personal philosophyhas always been I generally
believe the glass is half fulland I believe that the liquid
inside is clear.
That's just how I'm wired, okay, I also absolutely believe that
hope not also, but that hope isa good thing, right?
So instead of automaticallysaying, in an HR situation, no
(16:52):
to an HR-related request, Iwould say yes, sometimes it was
yes, but yes, sometimes it wasyes, and, and what that meant
was we can investigate, throughinquiry, the opportunity they
put in front of us and see whereit takes us.
So, unless it's absurd orunlawful, yeah, there's a chance
.
We're saying that somethingthat let's just give it a look.
(17:13):
It might be good for theorganization.
So let's take a chance.
I've said before many timesit's good to say three good
things about an idea before youshoot it down right, show that
you're really listening, providesome level of optimism.
So I've mentioned an absurdsituation.
So I had an employee come to meand actually a manager.
I said, greg, we're doing greatthis year the company goals.
(17:34):
We're going to max out on bonus.
Can I get in?
And this was like in lateNovember, early December,
getting ready for the holidays.
He said can I get an advance onmy bonus?
I said I hear what you'resaying and, yes, things are
trending well, but by policy andby the way the program's
structured, we can't pay it outuntil it's been approved and
(17:54):
it's got a retention piece on itas well.
So you have to stay here untilMarch to get it.
And he was like furious.
He's like, of course thiscompany makes all this money.
We're going to have all thisbonus money.
Certainly you could carve out acheck for me for a couple of
thousand dollars advance on mybonus.
That's what I mean when I sayabsurd.
That doesn't make sense.
Don't have any hope for that,don't do that.
(18:16):
But in that same vein, we hadbonus goals where we were kind
of getting close.
We're running out of time.
People worked a little harderand pushed it over the threshold
.
That's great.
We had reasonable hope, we hadgreat leadership, we had
optimism, we worked hard and wewere able to turn something that
wasn't looking as good intosomething that was very, very
good and that ended up being agreat payout for everyone when
(18:37):
the bonuses were distributed.
So in my line of work, optimismis extremely important, because
we're dealing with human beingsand they've got their fingers
crossed, john.
Because we're dealing withhuman beings and they've got
their fingers crossed, john.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And I think you know when I think back, we both had a
common example of a leader whowas a department head that was
talking about everything is rosy, everything is great,
everything was a party and therewas no meat on the bone.
He was nothing more than flashand awe.
There was no context and awonderful example of somebody
(19:12):
that I didn't want to emulateand, like yourself, I always
looked at it.
Everything was half full,mostly because you know we're
lucky that we're alive and thepeople that we have in our lives
.
But the people that I wasworking with, especially in in a
facilities environment, there'sthere's a fear of being
replaced.
(19:32):
They always think that a thirdparty can do it better,
especially when I worked for athird party, which made it
really interesting that thedouble whammy that happens
whenever you're in that kind ofenvironment and pessimism is
like everywhere, and you have tobe an optimist in that kind of
environment to show that there'sprogress, to show that the
things that we're doing areactually great examples of
(19:55):
leadership, things as simple aswork orders.
And then the humor that I wouldalways have is the pessimism of
people replacing these peoplethat are hard workers, and I
would talk about you know youhave this wonderful tool.
I can tell you that my successrate on this is very, very low.
But I would say that you havework orders and if you have
(20:16):
enough work orders in a givenweek and I know you all work and
at the end of the week I see 40hours of work being done every
week.
There's no way in the worldpeople would not understand how
much work you do.
But I know how you get caughtin the hallway and they, you
know, button hook you and youend up doing another 30 minute
(20:37):
job that isn't on paper but thenyou didn't write it down.
So you know a little bit abouthelping them to understand that
I'm trying to help you in thelong run and there's a lot of
great things that you do.
So it's always that coaching.
There was always thatencouraging.
And then I think the most funthat I've had as being a leader
(20:59):
was when I would turn around andsay, well, what would you do?
And a facilities perspective nota lot of the facility staff
were given the authority to act,even doing their own task, that
they were looking for directionto that level.
It's like no, tell me how youwould want to address it, put
together an action plan, pass itby me and let's get working on
(21:20):
it.
That empowerment was an amazingtool and the optimism and the
ownership, all those things kindof fall into place.
So being an optimistic leaderwas a kind of a very important
skill set to have, especiallyfrom a facilities perspective.
So you have, you know, greg,talking to somebody who should
(21:42):
know that a bonus is likerelated to a bonus and a timing
is kind of important.
A bonus is like related to abonus and a timing is kind of
important.
My conversation about being anoptimist is trying to help
people who are very pessimisticwithin their environment, within
their trade, by their ownnature, and you're trying to
(22:05):
save them from themselves.
(22:26):
No-transcript.
So, if you like what you'veheard, my book on leadership
called Building your LeadershipToolbox is available on Amazon
and Barnes and Noble.
Sorry, they have.
(22:47):
We have it in book formpaperback, hardcover.
The part that is kind of fun isthat we just did an audio book
and I'd strongly recommend it.
It's kind of fun and give it alisten.
Thank you for listening toSuccess Secrets and Stories on
the platform that you have.
It's also available on Appleand Google and Spotify and other
(23:08):
platforms.
A lot of what Greg and I talkabout is from Dr Durst and his
MBR program.
You can see more onsuccessgrowthacademycom, if
you'd like to contact us.
Our website is authorjawcom andthe music is brought to you by
my grandson, so we want to hearfrom you.
Give us a shout, help us tobuild the content and the
(23:31):
podcast that you would like tohear.
So thanks, greg.
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
John, as always.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Next time yeah.
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