August 1, 2025 • 23 mins
What does it truly mean to find your calling in life? In this thought-provoking conversation, hosts John Wandolowski and Greg Powell delve into Jeff Goins' bestselling book "The Art of Work: A Proven Path to Discovering What You Were Meant to Do" to uncover the seven-stage journey toward meaningful work.
Forget the misconception that finding your purpose requires a perfectly mapped five-year plan. Jeff Goins reveals that discovering your calling is more about embarking on a winding path with unexpected turns and revelations. The hosts break down the essential stages: awareness (recognizing what your life is telling you), apprenticeship (learning from mentors already in your orbit), and practice (embracing the painful aspects of growth that separate a calling from a mere hobby).
Both John and Greg share personal stories that bring these concepts to life. From John's evolution from mechanic to maintenance supervisor to construction leader, to Greg's journey through operations and sales before finding his true calling in human resources, their experiences validate Goins' assertion that our careers rarely follow a linear trajectory. Particularly insightful is their discussion of "the portfolio life" – embracing multiple roles and interests rather than limiting yourself to a single career identity.
Perhaps most compelling is their reflection on legacy. As Pericles wisely noted, "What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others." The hosts reveal how their greatest professional satisfaction came not from tangible achievements but from developing teams and helping others advance in their careers.
Whether you're starting your career journey, feeling stuck in a professional rut, or contemplating your next move, this episode offers valuable wisdom about aligning your work with your deepest values and purpose. As UCLA coach John Wooden advised, "Just do the best you can. No one can do more than that."
Connect with us at wando75.jw@gmail.com or gpowell374@gmail.com to share your thoughts or suggest future topics. And check out John's book "Building Your Leadership Toolbox" on Amazon and Barnes & Noble.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Well, hello and welcome to our podcast, success
Secrets and Stories.
I'm your host, john Wondoloski,and I'm here with my co-host
and friend, greg Powell.
Greg, hey, everybody.
And when we put together thispodcast we wanted to put out a
helping hand and help that nextgeneration and help answer the
(00:35):
question of what does it mean tobe a leader?
Today we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept, about a subjectthat I think supports that
concept.
So today we're going to talkabout the Art of Work.
It's a book by Jeff Goins and alittle bit of a support in his
(00:59):
title is A Proven Path ofDiscovering what it Means to Do.
So Goins' book, the Art of Work, is a bestseller and he's done
four other books.
He's explored the concept ofliving one's true calling and
living a life driven by passionand purpose.
Goen's emphasized that findingyour calling isn't a single
(01:21):
straightforward event, but ajourney involving the twists and
turns and sometimes surprisediscoveries.
The true fulfillment comes whenyour passion intersects with
your needs in the world, leadingto a life of a greater purpose.
It seems pretty heavy when youread that description of the
book, but he does a very goodjob of bringing it home and
(01:46):
making it a little bit moreunderstandable when he talked
about some of the elements ofhis book.
There's the seven stages of acalling and there's awareness,
apprenticeship, practice,discovery, profession, mastery
and legacy.
And I'll be honest, when I wasresearching this subject, I saw
(02:07):
it on a video that I thought wasreally entertaining.
It's a video program calledSnackable Ideas and it's on
YouTube and it did a wonderfulsummary of Jeff's book and I
just want to try to give thecontext of the video itself, but
I would strongly encourage youto look at it because it's such
(02:29):
a wonderful combination of wordsand drawings and it's really
engaging and it obviously gaveme the interest to try to share
it with you.
As a young best-selling author,jeff Goins has written four
books already under his belt andhas had the guts to have the
most challenging question oneverybody's mind how can I find
(02:53):
my true calling?
It's a fact.
There is no plan.
A key distinction in the bookis the finding your true calling
is more of a path instead of aplan.
Is the finding your truecalling is more of a path
instead of a plan, because youneed to remain flexible and open
to surprises that may come yourway.
There is no such thing as afive-year or ten-year plan.
(03:15):
I'll just break from thatcontext.
I believe there's a five orten-year plan, but I think this
is the words that are importantto somebody that's starting out
trying to get that direction.
Back to the text Instead ofthinking of it as a map or a
waypoint to keep you in theright direction, put it as a
journey with twists and turns,and that you're going to take it
(03:38):
from one place to the next tothe.
Ultimately you find yourdestination.
The seven steps of a truecalling to the.
Ultimately you find yourdestination.
The seven steps of a truecalling.
After you distill hundreds ofstories of people who have found
their own callings, it brokedown and he identified seven
common elements on his waypointof a map Awareness,
(03:59):
apprenticeship and practice werehis first three that help you
prepare for your journey.
Practice were his first threethat help you prepare for your
journey.
Discovery, profession andmastery is where you take that
action, your action and finally,legacy.
Here is where they talk abouthow to prepare yourself and to
(04:19):
find the path to your own truecalling.
Awareness, listening or to whatyour life is trying to tell you
.
You probably already have thatnagging feeling that there
should be more to life If you'renot satisfied with chasing
happiness or changing where youlive or switching jobs.
So the first step is you needto become aware.
(04:44):
I think, breaking from thiscontext you've heard that in our
other presentations thatawareness is the key to
understand what you're trying toaccomplish in life and whether
you're on the right path.
Okay, back to the text.
Listen to what your life istelling you.
Start by cataloging all themajor events in your life and
(05:05):
see what you can identify as acommon thread, everything that
happens to you, what makes youspecial, what is the true
meaning to life is what you are.
Nothing goes to waste, greg.
Pick it from there.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Thank you.
Apprenticeship Let your mentorsin.
Next, you need to become anapprentice, which means
listening to your mentor'sguidance, but you can't go out
and look for your mentors.
It really doesn't work that way.
The mentors you need arealready around you and have been
trying to invest in your pathand growth.
(05:42):
If only you would notice andlet them Practice.
It has to be painful.
Finally, step three is practice.
The key here is that it has tobe a painful practice, and this
is probably what we found to bethe author's most controversial
point, but it's the absolute keyto the whole of finding your
(06:03):
calling idea.
A calling isn't something thatyou do for fun.
It's what gives meaning to life, something that you need and
you do despite not being fun.
And when you practice it, itsimply has to be painful.
Anything else, you probablyjust call it a hobby.
(06:24):
Only when you're doingsomething painful and you
persevere regardless, only thenyou know that you're on the
right path to your calling,pulling through the challenges
and you rise above them.
So next time you find yourselfasking what should I do with my
life, consider committing to theothers that you're calling is
(06:47):
not going to be as easy, but itwill give you meaning and,
ultimately, is what will makeyou truly happy.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
What I think he's trying to get to the point and
he's making a very interestingobservation is it's important
enough for you to put in theextra effort to stretch, to find
that sense that you're enjoyingthe element of work.
A hobby is a hobby, it's adifferent kind of environment.
But when you're doing somethingfor work, you want to be
(07:16):
stretched, you want to have thatexchange, you want to, in my
world, know that you're makingan effect, that somewhere around
you you're making it better.
So that stretch or that painpiece of it does make sense when
you're thinking about a career.
And then he had a few examplesof applying it.
Greg, why don't you start offwith the first example?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
The importance of community and mentorship.
Goins highlights that successstories are often stories of
community that are emphasizingthe role of mentors and guides
in helping individuals on theirjourney.
John.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So Greg and I have talked about how these different
subjects are relevant to us.
Being a mentor or guidingsomeone's career is one of the
most rewarding moments in mycareer.
I hired employees with realpromise for the future, but
their careers were on hold orthey were going backwards.
The opportunity for theemployee and the mentor is to
(08:16):
share the experience and todiscuss challenges for their
advancement.
Those were key for mydevelopment as a leader also,
yeah, and it was also key forthe employee for them to secure
a career choice and to see thatthere's progress in terms of
seeking advancement.
Greg.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
You know, John, I've been honored to be asked to
serve as a mentor many timesover my career.
Some of those requests camefrom employees outside of my
department or function.
They weren't just HR folks,right?
Apparently.
They saw leadership traits inme that they wanted to add to
their own style, to their ownarsenal.
And you know what, when I lookback on it, I probably got back
a lot more than what I gave.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, and the next subject, I think is an
interesting subject, embracingfailure, and I've heard this
described before and I've heardthis described before.
(09:26):
As Goins puts it, failure isnot failures, as I do.
But early in my career Istarted off as a mechanic and,
as luck would have it, the paintand body man was out sick one
day and they asked me if I hadany experience in doing that
kind of work.
Well, I did, and as anapprentice I was having my
issues fitting in.
(09:46):
So I started painting trucks.
My manager was impressed.
I was a C plus kind of mechanicbut I was an A plus truck
painter.
At one point I was thinkingabout switching my professions
and maybe doing the work, tobeing a professional body and
paint guy, but the investment ofequipment and spray boots were
(10:10):
just prohibitive.
But it was all part of thatfailure and learning and
advancing that really made thattrail, that path that I followed
.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Greg.
So for me, john, one of thetoughest experiences I've had in
my career are what I call thoselittle people failures.
And I had them early on, and itwas about people I trusted,
folks that just flat out let medown.
I was gullible, right.
I believed that theirintentions were honorable, and
some were and others weren't,and that was my learning curve
around the ability to recognizewho was credible and who just
(10:45):
talked a good game right.
And as time went on, I gotpretty good at reading through
the BS.
Hmm, game right.
And as time went on, I gotpretty good at reading through
the BS.
It also taught me theimportance of something called
trust and verify.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
The next point.
What I think is interesting isthe ability to be a professional
, or your profession, to explorehow to turn your calling into a
profession that aligns withyour values and your purpose.
My calling was clear at thetime that I reached my mid-30s I
wanted to be in management andI wanted to make a difference
and change executive views ofwhat support services can do to
(11:29):
improve the bottom line ofprofit and to improve the
performance of the company.
Support services, by the way,is code words for maintenance
and housekeeping and landscapingand warehousing and all those
things that are considered backat the office.
Well, if it's not working, it'sgoing to show up.
I found a real sense ofsatisfaction when the C-suite
(11:51):
would actually recognize ourchanges and the cost reductions
due to our approach and theenhancements to the site and the
safety improvements.
That C-suite exposure wassomething that I really did
concentrate on, greg.
So the next concept is theportfolio life, and the concept
(12:13):
of a portfolio life isintroduced encouraged
individuals to embrace multipleroles and interests rather than
just confining themselves to onesingle career path.
So for me, there was the teenageyears of doing fast food and
working in the UPS truck loadingand gas station attendant and
(12:37):
oil changing and all thosethings.
In my mid-20s I was anapprentice mechanic, a foreman,
a new truck foreman in anout-of-state application and
out-of-state assignment.
By my mid-30s I needed tochange directions and I had an
opportunity to be a maintenancesupervisor for Johnson Johnson
on the second shift.
I mean, that's just the trailof being a teenager and making
(13:02):
that next step.
And then in my 30s I'm tryingto now hone in on what I really
want to do.
To be specific, a maintenancesupervisor in a gauze mill
production department.
So that's food service andwarehousing and trucking, repair
and manufacturing maintenancein 10 years and the jobs aren't
really related to each other.
(13:23):
It was my path, it's what Ilearned and I liked to fix
things.
That was the bottom line.
The other elements that werepart of my portfolio of life was
being a dad, with the lessonsand recitals and scouting and
marching band and also being avolunteer working with your
church, doing kids' schoolprograms, the charity food
(13:47):
drives.
All those things togethercreated that environment of
where I was taking that nextstep and I think that's what
Goins was talking about.
Greg.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
So, john, when I think about the portfolio of
life for myself, it was reallykind of a career life adventure.
And it started off in Kansas,if you can imagine that, and
then I grew up in Illinois,professionally and personally.
I think I blossomed in Indianaprofessionally and personally,
and with all those differentlocations was culture that also
became part of my culture and ina similar fashion, my roles in
different areas like operations,sales and finally, human
(14:23):
resources, all led to mydeep-rooted desire to help
people, whether they wereindividual contributors or part
of the management team.
Parenting with my wife, eldercare, knights of Columbus, boy
Scouts with my son, a variety ofsports activities with my
daughter, doing an interview,skills and resume writing
workshop with a buddy in Chicagoto help those that needed it
(14:43):
helped build my life and fueledmy passion to work with people.
So my career path was ruled byreal life, not just the plans
that I hope to execute.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Which is Gowen's point.
I mean that really is beingaware of those things, those
changes, those opportunities,and then, as you get older,
you're making that decision ofwhere is this going to be
pushing me towards?
Why don't you take the next?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
point.
So the next point, john, isprofession Exploring how to turn
your calling into a professionthat aligns with your values and
purpose, john.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, for me I think we just touched on it.
But when I reached my mid-30s Iwanted to be in management.
But I really wanted to make adifference in the executive
views of how they perceived thesupport services group.
To improve the bottom lineprofit, but also to improve the
performance or the image of thecompany.
(15:39):
Support services is also codeword for the maintenance
department, the housekeeping,landscaping, warehousing back at
a house kind of operation.
I found a real sense ofsatisfaction when the C-suite
would recognize our changes, ourcost reductions and the
enhancements to what we did interms of safety.
All those things kind of provedthe point that we were more
(16:00):
than just the back of the house.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Greg, the back of the house, greg.
So when I think of professionfor me, john, even though I knew
it was a possibility in collegeafter talking to the career
counselor that I could be inhuman resources or, in those
days, personnel I had to work inoperations and sales before I
focused on HR and ultimately gotto the senior leadership role
in HR.
I always believed that peoplewere a company's greatest asset
(16:26):
and during my first HR jobinterview, when I had the
opportunity to meet with the VPof HR, he asked me that famous
question so what are your careergoals?
I looked him right in the eyeand I said you know what I want?
Your job someday, and the restis history.
But I knew I wanted to be thesenior HR leader for a company,
and working on that dream becamemy goal moving forward to be
the senior.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
HR leader for a company and working on that
dream became my goal movingforward Mastery, aiming for the
state of flow, where your skillsmeet the challenges and you
embrace continuous growth andadaption.
A true master in my world issomeone who is in a professional
assignment and has the abilityto develop that particular
(17:07):
profession, that assignment.
A true master is someone who isa continuous learner.
They are always on that journeyof refinement.
They say that you need 10,000hours of practice to truly
understand an assignment and tobe an expert.
You need to go beyond that10,000-hour commitment.
I have found the estimate ofpractice as a minimum
requirement.
Go beyond that 10,000 hourcommitment.
I have found the estimate ofpractice as a minimum
(17:28):
requirement of time of 10,000hours.
I have only met a fewtechnically true masters within
their field and a combination oftheir formal education, their
experience and their incredibleknack to learn every day made up
what they were in terms ofbeing a master within their
field.
It is actually kind of rare tosee, but it is interesting when
(17:53):
you have the opportunity to workwith people who have understood
their profession to that level.
Greg.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
So, john, when I think of mastery, I think about
things like lifelong learning.
You know the world is in aconstant state of change.
Companies must be ready tochange, to compete, and even
disciplines like human resourcesare always looking to stay
current and relevant, with toolsand services that are in line
with the times.
And what a company's pursuitsare.
A continuous learning attitudeand ongoing education activities
(18:24):
, interactions with your peersand other companies All these
things help you master yourdiscipline.
Got a quote from Pericles whatyou leave behind is not what is
engraved in stone monuments, butwhat is woven into the lives of
others.
Next one is leaving a legacy.
The book emphasizes that acalling extends beyond personal
(18:46):
success and is about the lastingimpact you leave on others and
the world.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Your thoughts, john the people that you work with,
not with the monuments.
For me, it was helping peopleto advance in their career goals
.
In my life, one of the mosttangible things was having
basically building in stone.
(19:13):
You know that $500 millionconstruction I did for a local
community college.
But it wasn't so much buildingit, it was building a team that
did amazing work in a very shortperiod of time and that was
probably the most fun I've hadin a working environment,
because and there was failuresthere was probably more failures
that were associated with thepolitics of the job rather than
(19:35):
the performance of the job, butit's all within that path of
life and you learn from thoseexperiences.
It was a failure and it was asuccess at the same time.
I think you have somethingalong the same lines, Greg.
I do, John.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
When I think about leaving a legacy early in my
career.
Several times I thought I hadthat down.
It sounded pretty easy legacy.
I'm going to leave my legacyand I'll leave it in fine
fashion.
But leaving a legacy seemedlike something noble.
But the focus from my leadershipteam was day-to-day execution
Get her done right.
Leaving a legacy is important,but do your job first and we'll
(20:14):
talk about that legacy stufflater.
But over the last 20 years inparticular and I wish it would
have happened earlier I decidedthat I wanted to know what my
legacy was going to be and makeit happen and work towards
making it a reality.
And I look back at some of thegreat HR talent that I had to
work with, some folks I hired,some folks I inherited and I
recognize the incredibleaccomplishments we've made as a
(20:35):
team.
So for me, because of humanresources and what I've been
involved in, I'm excited aboutthings like really, really
strong HR processes, value-addedbenefits and compensation,
outstanding learning programs.
That makes me very proud thatwe left that legacy at the
organization To summarize sofrom Jeff Gowen's book the Path
(20:59):
of Discovery.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
He had these seven points.
First one was awareness thatwe've talked about recognizing
your gifts, your passions andself-reflection.
Apprenticeships to learn fromyour mentors and to learn from
others, and to include theaccidental apprenticeships and
all those other encounters thathelp you get to that end.
Result of learningopportunities.
(21:22):
Practice dedicating yourself tobe deliberate and often
challenge.
Practice needing to master yourcraft, needing to master your
craft.
Next is discovery understandingthat finding your calling is a
journey with intentional stepsand not just a single epiphany
(21:44):
Profession, exploring how toturn your calling into a
profession that it aligns withyour values and your purpose.
Mastery aim for the state offlow where your skills and your
challenges and you embrace thecontinual growth and adaption
Legacy Consider the lastingimpact of your work and how it
(22:08):
will influence others in thelong term.
And whenever I think about thelong term, greg, I think you
have a wonderful sportsapplication.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I do, john, whether you like college basketball or
you just have a passing fancywith it, you probably have heard
of John Wooden, the legendarycoach at UCLA.
And Mr Wooden said just do thebest you can.
No one can do more than that.
Key is to challenge yourself.
No one can do more than that.
Key is to challenge yourself.
Challenge yourself to be agreat employee, a great parent,
(22:38):
a true friend and whatever elseyou are interested in.
Being the best you Not thefastest, not the most famous,
not the highest paid.
Just do the best you can.
No one can do more than that.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
John.
So, if you like what you'veheard, building your Leadership
Toolbox is actually a book thatI have available on Amazon and
Barnes Noble.
Our podcast is available onwhat you're listening to, thank
you.
It's also available on Appleand Google and Spotify.
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr Durst and his NBR
(23:19):
program.
It's available onsuccessgrowthacademycom and, if
you want to talk to us, my emailaddress is wando75.jw at
gmailcom and Greg I can bereached at gpowell374 at
gmailcom.
And, greg, I can be reached atgpowell374 at gmailcom, and the
(23:39):
music is brought to you by mygrandson, so we want to hear
from you.
Let me get an opportunity togive us a shout.
Drop us a line, tell us whatyou like, tell us what you would
like us to try to look into.
It's all part of what we enjoy,so thanks.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Greg Thanks.
Well, hello and welcome to our podcast, success
Secrets and Stories.
I'm your host, john Wondoloski,and I'm here with my co-host
and friend, greg Powell.
Greg, hey, everybody.
And when we put together thispodcast we wanted to put out a
helping hand and help that nextgeneration and help answer the
(00:35):
question of what does it mean tobe a leader?
Today we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept, about a subjectthat I think supports that
concept.
So today we're going to talkabout the Art of Work.
It's a book by Jeff Goins and alittle bit of a support in his
(00:59):
title is A Proven Path ofDiscovering what it Means to Do.
So Goins' book, the Art of Work, is a bestseller and he's done
four other books.
He's explored the concept ofliving one's true calling and
living a life driven by passionand purpose.
Goen's emphasized that findingyour calling isn't a single
(01:21):
straightforward event, but ajourney involving the twists and
turns and sometimes surprisediscoveries.
The true fulfillment comes whenyour passion intersects with
your needs in the world, leadingto a life of a greater purpose.
It seems pretty heavy when youread that description of the
book, but he does a very goodjob of bringing it home and
(01:46):
making it a little bit moreunderstandable when he talked
about some of the elements ofhis book.
There's the seven stages of acalling and there's awareness,
apprenticeship, practice,discovery, profession, mastery
and legacy.
And I'll be honest, when I wasresearching this subject, I saw
(02:07):
it on a video that I thought wasreally entertaining.
It's a video program calledSnackable Ideas and it's on
YouTube and it did a wonderfulsummary of Jeff's book and I
just want to try to give thecontext of the video itself, but
I would strongly encourage youto look at it because it's such
(02:29):
a wonderful combination of wordsand drawings and it's really
engaging and it obviously gaveme the interest to try to share
it with you.
As a young best-selling author,jeff Goins has written four
books already under his belt andhas had the guts to have the
most challenging question oneverybody's mind how can I find
(02:53):
my true calling?
It's a fact.
There is no plan.
A key distinction in the bookis the finding your true calling
is more of a path instead of aplan.
Is the finding your truecalling is more of a path
instead of a plan, because youneed to remain flexible and open
to surprises that may come yourway.
There is no such thing as afive-year or ten-year plan.
(03:15):
I'll just break from thatcontext.
I believe there's a five orten-year plan, but I think this
is the words that are importantto somebody that's starting out
trying to get that direction.
Back to the text Instead ofthinking of it as a map or a
waypoint to keep you in theright direction, put it as a
journey with twists and turns,and that you're going to take it
(03:38):
from one place to the next tothe.
Ultimately you find yourdestination.
The seven steps of a truecalling to the.
Ultimately you find yourdestination.
The seven steps of a truecalling.
After you distill hundreds ofstories of people who have found
their own callings, it brokedown and he identified seven
common elements on his waypointof a map Awareness,
(03:59):
apprenticeship and practice werehis first three that help you
prepare for your journey.
Practice were his first threethat help you prepare for your
journey.
Discovery, profession andmastery is where you take that
action, your action and finally,legacy.
Here is where they talk abouthow to prepare yourself and to
(04:19):
find the path to your own truecalling.
Awareness, listening or to whatyour life is trying to tell you
.
You probably already have thatnagging feeling that there
should be more to life If you'renot satisfied with chasing
happiness or changing where youlive or switching jobs.
So the first step is you needto become aware.
(04:44):
I think, breaking from thiscontext you've heard that in our
other presentations thatawareness is the key to
understand what you're trying toaccomplish in life and whether
you're on the right path.
Okay, back to the text.
Listen to what your life istelling you.
Start by cataloging all themajor events in your life and
(05:05):
see what you can identify as acommon thread, everything that
happens to you, what makes youspecial, what is the true
meaning to life is what you are.
Nothing goes to waste, greg.
Pick it from there.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Thank you.
Apprenticeship Let your mentorsin.
Next, you need to become anapprentice, which means
listening to your mentor'sguidance, but you can't go out
and look for your mentors.
It really doesn't work that way.
The mentors you need arealready around you and have been
trying to invest in your pathand growth.
(05:42):
If only you would notice andlet them Practice.
It has to be painful.
Finally, step three is practice.
The key here is that it has tobe a painful practice, and this
is probably what we found to bethe author's most controversial
point, but it's the absolute keyto the whole of finding your
(06:03):
calling idea.
A calling isn't something thatyou do for fun.
It's what gives meaning to life, something that you need and
you do despite not being fun.
And when you practice it, itsimply has to be painful.
Anything else, you probablyjust call it a hobby.
(06:24):
Only when you're doingsomething painful and you
persevere regardless, only thenyou know that you're on the
right path to your calling,pulling through the challenges
and you rise above them.
So next time you find yourselfasking what should I do with my
life, consider committing to theothers that you're calling is
(06:47):
not going to be as easy, but itwill give you meaning and,
ultimately, is what will makeyou truly happy.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
What I think he's trying to get to the point and
he's making a very interestingobservation is it's important
enough for you to put in theextra effort to stretch, to find
that sense that you're enjoyingthe element of work.
A hobby is a hobby, it's adifferent kind of environment.
But when you're doing somethingfor work, you want to be
(07:16):
stretched, you want to have thatexchange, you want to, in my
world, know that you're makingan effect, that somewhere around
you you're making it better.
So that stretch or that painpiece of it does make sense when
you're thinking about a career.
And then he had a few examplesof applying it.
Greg, why don't you start offwith the first example?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
The importance of community and mentorship.
Goins highlights that successstories are often stories of
community that are emphasizingthe role of mentors and guides
in helping individuals on theirjourney.
John.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So Greg and I have talked about how these different
subjects are relevant to us.
Being a mentor or guidingsomeone's career is one of the
most rewarding moments in mycareer.
I hired employees with realpromise for the future, but
their careers were on hold orthey were going backwards.
The opportunity for theemployee and the mentor is to
(08:16):
share the experience and todiscuss challenges for their
advancement.
Those were key for mydevelopment as a leader also,
yeah, and it was also key forthe employee for them to secure
a career choice and to see thatthere's progress in terms of
seeking advancement.
Greg.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
You know, John, I've been honored to be asked to
serve as a mentor many timesover my career.
Some of those requests camefrom employees outside of my
department or function.
They weren't just HR folks,right?
Apparently.
They saw leadership traits inme that they wanted to add to
their own style, to their ownarsenal.
And you know what, when I lookback on it, I probably got back
a lot more than what I gave.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, and the next subject, I think is an
interesting subject, embracingfailure, and I've heard this
described before and I've heardthis described before.
(09:26):
As Goins puts it, failure isnot failures, as I do.
But early in my career Istarted off as a mechanic and,
as luck would have it, the paintand body man was out sick one
day and they asked me if I hadany experience in doing that
kind of work.
Well, I did, and as anapprentice I was having my
issues fitting in.
(09:46):
So I started painting trucks.
My manager was impressed.
I was a C plus kind of mechanicbut I was an A plus truck
painter.
At one point I was thinkingabout switching my professions
and maybe doing the work, tobeing a professional body and
paint guy, but the investment ofequipment and spray boots were
(10:10):
just prohibitive.
But it was all part of thatfailure and learning and
advancing that really made thattrail, that path that I followed
.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Greg.
So for me, john, one of thetoughest experiences I've had in
my career are what I call thoselittle people failures.
And I had them early on, and itwas about people I trusted,
folks that just flat out let medown.
I was gullible, right.
I believed that theirintentions were honorable, and
some were and others weren't,and that was my learning curve
around the ability to recognizewho was credible and who just
(10:45):
talked a good game right.
And as time went on, I gotpretty good at reading through
the BS.
Hmm, game right.
And as time went on, I gotpretty good at reading through
the BS.
It also taught me theimportance of something called
trust and verify.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
The next point.
What I think is interesting isthe ability to be a professional
, or your profession, to explorehow to turn your calling into a
profession that aligns withyour values and your purpose.
My calling was clear at thetime that I reached my mid-30s I
wanted to be in management andI wanted to make a difference
and change executive views ofwhat support services can do to
(11:29):
improve the bottom line ofprofit and to improve the
performance of the company.
Support services, by the way,is code words for maintenance
and housekeeping and landscapingand warehousing and all those
things that are considered backat the office.
Well, if it's not working, it'sgoing to show up.
I found a real sense ofsatisfaction when the C-suite
(11:51):
would actually recognize ourchanges and the cost reductions
due to our approach and theenhancements to the site and the
safety improvements.
That C-suite exposure wassomething that I really did
concentrate on, greg.
So the next concept is theportfolio life, and the concept
(12:13):
of a portfolio life isintroduced encouraged
individuals to embrace multipleroles and interests rather than
just confining themselves to onesingle career path.
So for me, there was the teenageyears of doing fast food and
working in the UPS truck loadingand gas station attendant and
(12:37):
oil changing and all thosethings.
In my mid-20s I was anapprentice mechanic, a foreman,
a new truck foreman in anout-of-state application and
out-of-state assignment.
By my mid-30s I needed tochange directions and I had an
opportunity to be a maintenancesupervisor for Johnson Johnson
on the second shift.
I mean, that's just the trailof being a teenager and making
(13:02):
that next step.
And then in my 30s I'm tryingto now hone in on what I really
want to do.
To be specific, a maintenancesupervisor in a gauze mill
production department.
So that's food service andwarehousing and trucking, repair
and manufacturing maintenancein 10 years and the jobs aren't
really related to each other.
(13:23):
It was my path, it's what Ilearned and I liked to fix
things.
That was the bottom line.
The other elements that werepart of my portfolio of life was
being a dad, with the lessonsand recitals and scouting and
marching band and also being avolunteer working with your
church, doing kids' schoolprograms, the charity food
(13:47):
drives.
All those things togethercreated that environment of
where I was taking that nextstep and I think that's what
Goins was talking about.
Greg.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
So, john, when I think about the portfolio of
life for myself, it was reallykind of a career life adventure.
And it started off in Kansas,if you can imagine that, and
then I grew up in Illinois,professionally and personally.
I think I blossomed in Indianaprofessionally and personally,
and with all those differentlocations was culture that also
became part of my culture and ina similar fashion, my roles in
different areas like operations,sales and finally, human
(14:23):
resources, all led to mydeep-rooted desire to help
people, whether they wereindividual contributors or part
of the management team.
Parenting with my wife, eldercare, knights of Columbus, boy
Scouts with my son, a variety ofsports activities with my
daughter, doing an interview,skills and resume writing
workshop with a buddy in Chicagoto help those that needed it
(14:43):
helped build my life and fueledmy passion to work with people.
So my career path was ruled byreal life, not just the plans
that I hope to execute.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Which is Gowen's point.
I mean that really is beingaware of those things, those
changes, those opportunities,and then, as you get older,
you're making that decision ofwhere is this going to be
pushing me towards?
Why don't you take the next?
Speaker 1 (15:08):
point.
So the next point, john, isprofession Exploring how to turn
your calling into a professionthat aligns with your values and
purpose, john.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, for me I think we just touched on it.
But when I reached my mid-30s Iwanted to be in management.
But I really wanted to make adifference in the executive
views of how they perceived thesupport services group.
To improve the bottom lineprofit, but also to improve the
performance or the image of thecompany.
(15:39):
Support services is also codeword for the maintenance
department, the housekeeping,landscaping, warehousing back at
a house kind of operation.
I found a real sense ofsatisfaction when the C-suite
would recognize our changes, ourcost reductions and the
enhancements to what we did interms of safety.
All those things kind of provedthe point that we were more
(16:00):
than just the back of the house.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Greg, the back of the house, greg.
So when I think of professionfor me, john, even though I knew
it was a possibility in collegeafter talking to the career
counselor that I could be inhuman resources or, in those
days, personnel I had to work inoperations and sales before I
focused on HR and ultimately gotto the senior leadership role
in HR.
I always believed that peoplewere a company's greatest asset
(16:26):
and during my first HR jobinterview, when I had the
opportunity to meet with the VPof HR, he asked me that famous
question so what are your careergoals?
I looked him right in the eyeand I said you know what I want?
Your job someday, and the restis history.
But I knew I wanted to be thesenior HR leader for a company,
and working on that dream becamemy goal moving forward to be
the senior.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
HR leader for a company and working on that
dream became my goal movingforward Mastery, aiming for the
state of flow, where your skillsmeet the challenges and you
embrace continuous growth andadaption.
A true master in my world issomeone who is in a professional
assignment and has the abilityto develop that particular
(17:07):
profession, that assignment.
A true master is someone who isa continuous learner.
They are always on that journeyof refinement.
They say that you need 10,000hours of practice to truly
understand an assignment and tobe an expert.
You need to go beyond that10,000-hour commitment.
I have found the estimate ofpractice as a minimum
requirement.
Go beyond that 10,000 hourcommitment.
I have found the estimate ofpractice as a minimum
(17:28):
requirement of time of 10,000hours.
I have only met a fewtechnically true masters within
their field and a combination oftheir formal education, their
experience and their incredibleknack to learn every day made up
what they were in terms ofbeing a master within their
field.
It is actually kind of rare tosee, but it is interesting when
(17:53):
you have the opportunity to workwith people who have understood
their profession to that level.
Greg.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
So, john, when I think of mastery, I think about
things like lifelong learning.
You know the world is in aconstant state of change.
Companies must be ready tochange, to compete, and even
disciplines like human resourcesare always looking to stay
current and relevant, with toolsand services that are in line
with the times.
And what a company's pursuitsare.
A continuous learning attitudeand ongoing education activities
(18:24):
, interactions with your peersand other companies All these
things help you master yourdiscipline.
Got a quote from Pericles whatyou leave behind is not what is
engraved in stone monuments, butwhat is woven into the lives of
others.
Next one is leaving a legacy.
The book emphasizes that acalling extends beyond personal
(18:46):
success and is about the lastingimpact you leave on others and
the world.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Your thoughts, john the people that you work with,
not with the monuments.
For me, it was helping peopleto advance in their career goals
.
In my life, one of the mosttangible things was having
basically building in stone.
(19:13):
You know that $500 millionconstruction I did for a local
community college.
But it wasn't so much buildingit, it was building a team that
did amazing work in a very shortperiod of time and that was
probably the most fun I've hadin a working environment,
because and there was failuresthere was probably more failures
that were associated with thepolitics of the job rather than
(19:35):
the performance of the job, butit's all within that path of
life and you learn from thoseexperiences.
It was a failure and it was asuccess at the same time.
I think you have somethingalong the same lines, Greg.
I do, John.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
When I think about leaving a legacy early in my
career.
Several times I thought I hadthat down.
It sounded pretty easy legacy.
I'm going to leave my legacyand I'll leave it in fine
fashion.
But leaving a legacy seemedlike something noble.
But the focus from my leadershipteam was day-to-day execution
Get her done right.
Leaving a legacy is important,but do your job first and we'll
(20:14):
talk about that legacy stufflater.
But over the last 20 years inparticular and I wish it would
have happened earlier I decidedthat I wanted to know what my
legacy was going to be and makeit happen and work towards
making it a reality.
And I look back at some of thegreat HR talent that I had to
work with, some folks I hired,some folks I inherited and I
recognize the incredibleaccomplishments we've made as a
(20:35):
team.
So for me, because of humanresources and what I've been
involved in, I'm excited aboutthings like really, really
strong HR processes, value-addedbenefits and compensation,
outstanding learning programs.
That makes me very proud thatwe left that legacy at the
organization To summarize sofrom Jeff Gowen's book the Path
(20:59):
of Discovery.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
He had these seven points.
First one was awareness thatwe've talked about recognizing
your gifts, your passions andself-reflection.
Apprenticeships to learn fromyour mentors and to learn from
others, and to include theaccidental apprenticeships and
all those other encounters thathelp you get to that end.
Result of learningopportunities.
(21:22):
Practice dedicating yourself tobe deliberate and often
challenge.
Practice needing to master yourcraft, needing to master your
craft.
Next is discovery understandingthat finding your calling is a
journey with intentional stepsand not just a single epiphany
(21:44):
Profession, exploring how toturn your calling into a
profession that it aligns withyour values and your purpose.
Mastery aim for the state offlow where your skills and your
challenges and you embrace thecontinual growth and adaption
Legacy Consider the lastingimpact of your work and how it
(22:08):
will influence others in thelong term.
And whenever I think about thelong term, greg, I think you
have a wonderful sportsapplication.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I do, john, whether you like college basketball or
you just have a passing fancywith it, you probably have heard
of John Wooden, the legendarycoach at UCLA.
And Mr Wooden said just do thebest you can.
No one can do more than that.
Key is to challenge yourself.
No one can do more than that.
Key is to challenge yourself.
Challenge yourself to be agreat employee, a great parent,
(22:38):
a true friend and whatever elseyou are interested in.
Being the best you Not thefastest, not the most famous,
not the highest paid.
Just do the best you can.
No one can do more than that.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
John.
So, if you like what you'veheard, building your Leadership
Toolbox is actually a book thatI have available on Amazon and
Barnes Noble.
Our podcast is available onwhat you're listening to, thank
you.
It's also available on Appleand Google and Spotify.
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr Durst and his NBR
(23:19):
program.
It's available onsuccessgrowthacademycom and, if
you want to talk to us, my emailaddress is wando75.jw at
gmailcom and Greg I can bereached at gpowell374 at
gmailcom.
And, greg, I can be reached atgpowell374 at gmailcom, and the
(23:39):
music is brought to you by mygrandson, so we want to hear
from you.
Let me get an opportunity togive us a shout.
Drop us a line, tell us whatyou like, tell us what you would
like us to try to look into.
It's all part of what we enjoy,so thanks.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Greg Thanks.
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