October 3, 2025 • 19 mins
Resistance to change isn't a sign of defiance—it's often a signal of deep engagement. Join John and Greg discussing this revelation that stands at the heart of our exploration into organizational transformation, where we unpack why 70% of change initiatives fail and what the successful 30% do differently.
Drawing from cutting-edge psychological research, we reveal how people develop what experts call a "moral force" around existing processes, believing the current way isn't just familiar but morally correct. This explains the passionate opposition many leaders encounter when implementing change. The breakthrough comes in reframing this resistance as valuable feedback from team members who still care enough to engage.
Our deep dive into successful change management practices reveals that organizations implementing proper change strategies achieve their objectives 93% of the time—compared to just 15% success for those with poor change management. Companies are noticing, investing 2.5 times more in transformation budgets than in previous years, reaping rewards of 21% higher profitability and 59% better retention rates.
We explore practical approaches through the 4D model of resistance (destruction, distancing, delays, and dissent), providing leaders with concrete strategies to address each type. The most successful organizations no longer view change as a one-time event but as an ongoing capability woven into their organizational DNA—creating cultures that adapt quickly while supporting people through transitions.
Whether you're leading a transformation or experiencing one, this episode equips you with the tools to navigate change with empathy, strategic clarity, and psychological insight. How might your next organizational shift look different with these approaches? Listen, learn, and transform resistance into your greatest ally for positive change.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Well, hello and welcome to our podcast, success
Secrets and Stories.
I'm your host, john Wondoloski,and I'm here with my co-host
and friend, greg Powell.
Greg, hey, everybody, and whenwe put together this podcast we
wanted to put out a helping handand help that next generation
and help answer the question ofwhat does it mean to be a leader
(00:37):
?
Today we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept.
So organizational change that'sreally a subject that we have
covered before and addressingresistance within that change
for empathy and strategy andpurpose.
It's a little bit more specificand I think, with Greg's
(00:59):
background in psychology and alittle bit of my background in
operations, we wanted to talkabout how to create more of a
successful transition and how itdepends on leadership and how
they guide their teams and,mostly, how they handle the
uncertainty.
Resistance is not a flaw to thesystem.
It is a natural human response.
(01:20):
General facts are like 70% oforganizational change fails.
The key is that it's psychologyis the root to the resistance
that stems from the fear and thehuman response to fear.
This podcast is really tryingto help you understand and
(01:42):
navigate some of the clarity andcompassion and strategic
foresight that you need tounderstand that resistance.
Greg, why don't you start usoff on navigating organizational
change?
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
John, most organizational transformations
crash and burn.
Today we're dividing into theart and science of guiding teams
through change, how tounderstand resistance and
turning those skeptics intochampions.
By the end of this episode,you'll understand why people
resist change and learnpractical strategies to lead
(02:19):
successful transformations.
What's fascinating is that thisisn't just about processes or
systems.
It's deeply psychological.
When we examine why changeefforts fail, it's rarely about
the change itself.
It's about how people respondto it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
So why do people resist change in the first place
?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So, according to recent psychological research,
several key factors contributeto resistance.
The biggest one fear of theunknown.
Change creates uncertainty,which triggers anxiety in the
brain.
You know, we're basicallyhardwired to prefer certainty.
Psychologists have identified aconcept called the moral force.
People don't just prefer theold way because it's familiar,
(03:06):
they begin to believe it'smorally correct.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Wait, what?
What do you mean?
The old way is morally correct.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yes, it's fascinating .
People start thinking this isthe right way to do things, this
is how it should be done.
It becomes almost like a beliefsystem.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Whoa belief system.
That explains how someindividuals become so passionate
and they resist change.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
But there's a perspective shift, John, that
might surprise you.
Resistance isn't always bad.
In fact, recent research showsthat resistance is a form of
engagement.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Okay, how?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
so Think about it.
People who resist care enoughto have an opinion.
They invest it in the outcome.
It's the people who arecompletely disengaged that you
really need to worry about.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh, now, that's profound.
Resistance means that they'restill in the game.
That's the key right.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Exactly, and you know what.
It reminds me of something fromthe sports world.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Think about Steph Curry in the NBA playoffs.
Wait, the basketball player.
How does that connect to an?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
organizational change .
So when Curry misses a crucialthree-pointer, he doesn't stop
shooting.
He stays resilient because hetrusts his practice and he
trusts his skills.
And that's exactly whatorganizations need during change
resilience and adaptability.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, and probably a bad memory if you're going to
have that many shots up in theair.
Right, that's right.
So how do we build that kind ofresilience, that kind of
patience, I guess?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So there's some recent research from Proce and
it shows it starts with clearcommunication.
Organizations need to focus onthe why behind the change.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Wait, what is?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
a Proce.
Proce is short for professionalscience.
It was founded by Jeff Hyattback in 94.
It's an organization that spentmore than 25 years researching
how individuals andorganizations experience and
respond to change.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Okay, so what does it actually look like in practice,
all this research?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So, according to their findings, successful
change leaders do three keythings One, they create and
communicate a very clear purpose.
Two, they build trust throughtransparency.
And three, they promoteownership and accountability.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Oh, okay.
Well, that all sounds great intheory, but how does that
actually, you know, buildmomentum for change.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
So let me share some concrete examples.
For clear purpose, leaders mustexplicitly connect the change
to larger organizational goals.
They need to explain it, notjust what's changing, but why it
matters.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Well, you know, like everybody would like the big
picture, sometimes it's notavailable, but it is good to
have the big picture, exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
For transparency.
Deloitte's 2025 ChiefTransformation Officer study
found that companies are nowinvesting in up to 2.5 times
more in transformational budgetscompared to previous years.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Wait a minute.
Budget two and a half timesOkay, that's a big enough jump
to get management's attention.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So because they've realized that successful change
requires dedicated resources andexperienced leadership.
That's why they're doing it and, in fact, 90% of successful
transformation leaders have ledthree or more major change
initiatives.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So that explains sometimes when you're looking
for change executive managementchanges and that experience is
really what they're hunting for.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Absolutely, and here's something remarkable
Proceeds.
Research shows that projectswith effective change management
met or exceeded objectives 93%of the time.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Okay, 93 is going to get somebody's attention.
That's impressive.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Compared to just a 15% success rate for projects
with poor change management.
The difference is staggering.
So those numbers really drivehome how crucial good change
management is, and it's not justabout the metrics.
Recent studies show that highlycohesive organizations
experience a couple of things.
One near and dear to my heartup to 59% better retention.
(07:26):
And two 21% higherprofitability.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Whoa Okay, 21% is going to get anybody's attention
in terms of a bottom lineimpact.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Exactly, but let's talk about practical strategy.
So there's a 4D model ofresistance, one of effective
approaches, the 4D model, whichidentifies four key types of
resistance.
First one is destruction,number two, distancing, number
three, delays.
(07:58):
And the fourth one is dissent.
Understanding these helpsleaders address resistance much
more effectively.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
You know I've seen people that are displaying those
different characteristicsthroughout my career, whenever
I've seen that resistance.
But can you give an example ofhow those subjects are actually
applied?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Sure.
So let's look at destructionthat might involve actively
distributing change efforts,while distancing could be
someone becoming unavailable forimportant use right
Conveniently unavailable yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Recognizing these patterns help leaders respond
appropriately.
Okay, so what about the othertwo?
So let's talk about delays.
Delays involve procrastination,just flat-out missed deadlines.
And then there's dissent.
That can be a vocal oppositionor silent resistance.
Silent resistance is often morechallenging to address, because
(08:56):
at least with vocal oppositionyou know where people stand.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, they're not hiding in the woods, and this is
probably where empathy iscritical.
It's crucial in order to try tomake decisions.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
So recent research shows that stress has spiked
across the workforce, with 67%of adults reporting increased
stress during periods of change.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, I'm surprised there's not like 100%.
It's a significant number,obviously it is, john, it is
huge.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
That's why modern change management emphasizes the
human side of transformation.
Leaders need to createpsychological safety during the
change.
Well, how do you do that?
So a proxy's got three steps,three key strategies.
First one, regular check-insgot to communicate.
Second, clear communicationchannels for all involved to use
(09:47):
.
And then third, supportresources.
It's about making people feelheard and supported.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It seems like it takes a lot of time and effort
in order to be that interactive.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
It does, but the return on investment is very
clear.
Organizations that prioritizethe human side of change are
seven times more likely toachieve their goals.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Seven times is a pretty significant number to try
to achieve goals.
That's almost worthwhile givingit a try just to see if it can
get close to that number.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So think about, John, change as a capability.
Here's something interestingthe most successful
organizations are moving awayfrom seeing change as a one-time
event.
What do you mean?
They're treating changemanagement as an ongoing
capability, something woven intothe organization's DNA.
It's about building changeresilience into the
organization's DNA.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
It's about building change, resilience.
That makes a lot of sense, butit sounds a little pie in the
sky, especially with today'sfast-paced world.
Seriously, it does, but themost successful organizations
are those that can adapt quicklyand bring their people along
with them.
Okay, so what are the keys thatthey should be concentrating on
(11:01):
to manage change?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
So first is focus on building trust through
transparency, Communicateclearly and consistently and
remember resistance isn't alwaysnegative.
It's often a sign of engagement.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And for teams going through change.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Understand that change is inevitable, but your
concerns are valid and should bevoiced constructively.
So bottom line it for me.
So change management is yourresponsibility in your role as a
leader period.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, which is what we've talked about a lot in
terms of what responsibilitymeans for a leader.
It's not the executives thatare going to make the change,
it's you.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
That's right.
So let me talk a little bitabout understanding resistance
to change.
There are psychological roots,as John has mentioned.
I had a minor in psychology butit served me well in the
business world.
Resistance often stems fromfear and people are afraid of
the unknown.
They're afraid of loss ofcontrol or diminished confidence
(12:07):
.
Confirmation bias and statusquo bias reinforce existing
beliefs, making change feelthreatening.
Common expressions ofresistance look something like
this passive disengagement, opencriticism or even skepticism.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
And that's something that we really want to encourage
that open communication, sothat they not only feel
comfortable to talk, but theyexpose the people that are
resisting at the same time.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Exactly Because if they're being critical and
they're being skeptical, theymight be not showing up for work
.
There might be some absenteeismissues, their productivity
might go down a little bit andthey also cling to what we've
always done right.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, we've tried that before.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
So why does it matter ?
Unaddressed resistance canderail initiatives.
They can fracture teams anderode the trust you might have
earned.
Leaders must recognizeresistance not as defiance but
as a signal for deeperengagement.
They're looking for help, theywant more information, they want
to get folded in, so to speak.
(13:14):
Let's talk a little bit aboutother strategies for guiding
change.
Empathy first Leaders mustlisten actively and validate
folks' concerns.
As Dr Bobby Wagner notes,building strong emotional
connections reduces stress anddrives retention.
So let's look at clarity incommunication.
(13:36):
Transparent messaging about thewhy behind change helps kind of
take the mystery out of theprocess.
Open forums and regular updatesand storytelling foster trust.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And I think in one of our previous podcasts we talked
about an organization thatcreated like a social network so
that they could do this kind ofcommunication, like a social
network so that they could dothis kind of communication, so
it doesn't have to be in a, youknow, put a note in a box kind
of environment.
Setting up a website forexchanging input is one of those
tricks for communication.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
That's right, yeah, involvement and ownership.
Engaging team members inshaping the change increases
their buy-in.
Co-creation of solutionsempowers individuals and reduces
resistance.
Because there's buy-in, becausethey're participating, they're
engaged, they're being heard.
Training and support Equipteams with the tools and
(14:32):
knowledge they need to succeed.
Change is less intimidatingwhen people feel they're
prepared for it.
Yep, and then celebratingmilestones, we say celebrate
success along the way, recognizeprogress, no matter how small.
Celebrations reinforce momentumand often build a culture of
adaptability.
Very true.
(14:52):
The role of transformationleadership has a couple of other
thoughts Modeling vulnerability, leaders who share their own
uncertainties and growth fosterpsychological safety.
So what does this do?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
and advise others to step into change with courage
and that's something that Ithink you and I have done,
especially when we've dealt withchange.
We're at least giving them someinput on what we're feeling.
That that's just kind ofcreating that openness that
you're expecting to see leadersencourage.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yep, how about strategic framing so you could
reframe the change asopportunity, not a threat?
Use metaphors, use stories,vision to inspire forward
movement.
And then, finally, legacythinking Connect change to
long-term purpose.
When teams understand howtransformation aligns with
(15:46):
values and mission, resistancefades.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, and with strategic framing and with
legacy thinking, you have to becareful with the words that you
use.
They are listening to just theinflection in your voice and the
terms that you're using.
Those are kind of important.
You don't want to startcrafting magical messages, but
(16:14):
you don't want to swear.
You don't want to try to comefrom the negative, you want to
try to come from the positive.
You want to try to come fromthe positive and it shouldn't be
Pollyanna, but it should bedirect and they can smell a con
in a heartbeat.
Just you know the honesty pieceof it.
Really, strategic framing andlegacy thinking the only thing
(16:35):
that really combats those kindof negative concepts is truth
and it really kind of showsthrough, if you're a leader, how
that comes through.
So we kind of went over thisfrom two different perspectives
from the background, in terms ofthe psychology piece, and a
little bit about the mechanicsand how we do it, and a little
(16:58):
bit about the mechanics and howwe do it.
But change is not abouteliminating resistance, which is
, I think, important in whatwe're talking about in terms of
transformation With empathy,clarity, strategic leadership,
those words that we talk about.
That really will bring thegroup.
Together, resistance becomessomething more of a catalyst for
(17:21):
growth.
Leaders who embrace thechallenge not only reshape their
organization, but they buildlegacies.
Now I have spent a lot of mytime going from manufacturing
into healthcare, into highereducation, back into healthcare,
and change is the constantmedium in every one of those
(17:42):
formats.
How much and how dependent theyare looking for leadership.
Those change leaders are reallythe ones that they're looking
for and usually have theopportunity for advancement
because they're part of theprocess trying to make a change.
So hopefully these lessons thatwe're talking about are some
(18:05):
help in terms of your travel forbeing a leader.
And, if you like what you'veheard, I've written a book
called Building your LeadershipToolbox and we talk about tools
like this and it's available onAmazon and Barnes, noble and
other sites.
The podcast is what you've beenlistening to.
Thank you so much.
It's also available on Apple,google and Spotify.
(18:27):
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr Durst and his MBR
program.
If you'd like to know moreabout Dr Durst, you can find out
on successgrowthacademycomgrowthacademycom, and if you'd
like to contact us, please sendme a line.
That's wando75.jw at gmailcom.
And the music is brought to youby my grandson.
(18:50):
So we want to hear from you.
Drop me a line, tell me what'sgoing on, what you like and what
you would like to hear about,and it's always helped us to
create content like and what youwould like to hear about, and
it's always helped us to createcontent.
Thanks, greg, this was fun.
Thanks, john, as always.
Next time, yeah.
Well, hello and welcome to our podcast, success
Secrets and Stories.
I'm your host, john Wondoloski,and I'm here with my co-host
and friend, greg Powell.
Greg, hey, everybody, and whenwe put together this podcast we
wanted to put out a helping handand help that next generation
and help answer the question ofwhat does it mean to be a leader
(00:37):
?
Today we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept.
So organizational change that'sreally a subject that we have
covered before and addressingresistance within that change
for empathy and strategy andpurpose.
It's a little bit more specificand I think, with Greg's
(00:59):
background in psychology and alittle bit of my background in
operations, we wanted to talkabout how to create more of a
successful transition and how itdepends on leadership and how
they guide their teams and,mostly, how they handle the
uncertainty.
Resistance is not a flaw to thesystem.
It is a natural human response.
(01:20):
General facts are like 70% oforganizational change fails.
The key is that it's psychologyis the root to the resistance
that stems from the fear and thehuman response to fear.
This podcast is really tryingto help you understand and
(01:42):
navigate some of the clarity andcompassion and strategic
foresight that you need tounderstand that resistance.
Greg, why don't you start usoff on navigating organizational
change?
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
John, most organizational transformations
crash and burn.
Today we're dividing into theart and science of guiding teams
through change, how tounderstand resistance and
turning those skeptics intochampions.
By the end of this episode,you'll understand why people
resist change and learnpractical strategies to lead
(02:19):
successful transformations.
What's fascinating is that thisisn't just about processes or
systems.
It's deeply psychological.
When we examine why changeefforts fail, it's rarely about
the change itself.
It's about how people respondto it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
So why do people resist change in the first place
?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So, according to recent psychological research,
several key factors contributeto resistance.
The biggest one fear of theunknown.
Change creates uncertainty,which triggers anxiety in the
brain.
You know, we're basicallyhardwired to prefer certainty.
Psychologists have identified aconcept called the moral force.
People don't just prefer theold way because it's familiar,
(03:06):
they begin to believe it'smorally correct.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Wait, what?
What do you mean?
The old way is morally correct.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yes, it's fascinating .
People start thinking this isthe right way to do things, this
is how it should be done.
It becomes almost like a beliefsystem.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Whoa belief system.
That explains how someindividuals become so passionate
and they resist change.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
But there's a perspective shift, John, that
might surprise you.
Resistance isn't always bad.
In fact, recent research showsthat resistance is a form of
engagement.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Okay, how?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
so Think about it.
People who resist care enoughto have an opinion.
They invest it in the outcome.
It's the people who arecompletely disengaged that you
really need to worry about.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh, now, that's profound.
Resistance means that they'restill in the game.
That's the key right.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Exactly, and you know what.
It reminds me of something fromthe sports world.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Think about Steph Curry in the NBA playoffs.
Wait, the basketball player.
How does that connect to an?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
organizational change .
So when Curry misses a crucialthree-pointer, he doesn't stop
shooting.
He stays resilient because hetrusts his practice and he
trusts his skills.
And that's exactly whatorganizations need during change
resilience and adaptability.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, and probably a bad memory if you're going to
have that many shots up in theair.
Right, that's right.
So how do we build that kind ofresilience, that kind of
patience, I guess?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So there's some recent research from Proce and
it shows it starts with clearcommunication.
Organizations need to focus onthe why behind the change.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Wait, what is?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
a Proce.
Proce is short for professionalscience.
It was founded by Jeff Hyattback in 94.
It's an organization that spentmore than 25 years researching
how individuals andorganizations experience and
respond to change.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Okay, so what does it actually look like in practice,
all this research?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
So, according to their findings, successful
change leaders do three keythings One, they create and
communicate a very clear purpose.
Two, they build trust throughtransparency.
And three, they promoteownership and accountability.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Oh, okay.
Well, that all sounds great intheory, but how does that
actually, you know, buildmomentum for change.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
So let me share some concrete examples.
For clear purpose, leaders mustexplicitly connect the change
to larger organizational goals.
They need to explain it, notjust what's changing, but why it
matters.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Well, you know, like everybody would like the big
picture, sometimes it's notavailable, but it is good to
have the big picture, exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
For transparency.
Deloitte's 2025 ChiefTransformation Officer study
found that companies are nowinvesting in up to 2.5 times
more in transformational budgetscompared to previous years.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Wait a minute.
Budget two and a half timesOkay, that's a big enough jump
to get management's attention.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So because they've realized that successful change
requires dedicated resources andexperienced leadership.
That's why they're doing it and, in fact, 90% of successful
transformation leaders have ledthree or more major change
initiatives.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
So that explains sometimes when you're looking
for change executive managementchanges and that experience is
really what they're hunting for.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Absolutely, and here's something remarkable
Proceeds.
Research shows that projectswith effective change management
met or exceeded objectives 93%of the time.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Okay, 93 is going to get somebody's attention.
That's impressive.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Compared to just a 15% success rate for projects
with poor change management.
The difference is staggering.
So those numbers really drivehome how crucial good change
management is, and it's not justabout the metrics.
Recent studies show that highlycohesive organizations
experience a couple of things.
One near and dear to my heartup to 59% better retention.
(07:26):
And two 21% higherprofitability.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Whoa Okay, 21% is going to get anybody's attention
in terms of a bottom lineimpact.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Exactly, but let's talk about practical strategy.
So there's a 4D model ofresistance, one of effective
approaches, the 4D model, whichidentifies four key types of
resistance.
First one is destruction,number two, distancing, number
three, delays.
(07:58):
And the fourth one is dissent.
Understanding these helpsleaders address resistance much
more effectively.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
You know I've seen people that are displaying those
different characteristicsthroughout my career, whenever
I've seen that resistance.
But can you give an example ofhow those subjects are actually
applied?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Sure.
So let's look at destructionthat might involve actively
distributing change efforts,while distancing could be
someone becoming unavailable forimportant use right
Conveniently unavailable yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Recognizing these patterns help leaders respond
appropriately.
Okay, so what about the othertwo?
So let's talk about delays.
Delays involve procrastination,just flat-out missed deadlines.
And then there's dissent.
That can be a vocal oppositionor silent resistance.
Silent resistance is often morechallenging to address, because
(08:56):
at least with vocal oppositionyou know where people stand.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, they're not hiding in the woods, and this is
probably where empathy iscritical.
It's crucial in order to try tomake decisions.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
So recent research shows that stress has spiked
across the workforce, with 67%of adults reporting increased
stress during periods of change.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, I'm surprised there's not like 100%.
It's a significant number,obviously it is, john, it is
huge.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
That's why modern change management emphasizes the
human side of transformation.
Leaders need to createpsychological safety during the
change.
Well, how do you do that?
So a proxy's got three steps,three key strategies.
First one, regular check-insgot to communicate.
Second, clear communicationchannels for all involved to use
(09:47):
.
And then third, supportresources.
It's about making people feelheard and supported.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It seems like it takes a lot of time and effort
in order to be that interactive.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
It does, but the return on investment is very
clear.
Organizations that prioritizethe human side of change are
seven times more likely toachieve their goals.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Seven times is a pretty significant number to try
to achieve goals.
That's almost worthwhile givingit a try just to see if it can
get close to that number.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So think about, John, change as a capability.
Here's something interestingthe most successful
organizations are moving awayfrom seeing change as a one-time
event.
What do you mean?
They're treating changemanagement as an ongoing
capability, something woven intothe organization's DNA.
It's about building changeresilience into the
organization's DNA.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
It's about building change, resilience.
That makes a lot of sense, butit sounds a little pie in the
sky, especially with today'sfast-paced world.
Seriously, it does, but themost successful organizations
are those that can adapt quicklyand bring their people along
with them.
Okay, so what are the keys thatthey should be concentrating on
(11:01):
to manage change?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
So first is focus on building trust through
transparency, Communicateclearly and consistently and
remember resistance isn't alwaysnegative.
It's often a sign of engagement.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And for teams going through change.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Understand that change is inevitable, but your
concerns are valid and should bevoiced constructively.
So bottom line it for me.
So change management is yourresponsibility in your role as a
leader period.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, which is what we've talked about a lot in
terms of what responsibilitymeans for a leader.
It's not the executives thatare going to make the change,
it's you.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
That's right.
So let me talk a little bitabout understanding resistance
to change.
There are psychological roots,as John has mentioned.
I had a minor in psychology butit served me well in the
business world.
Resistance often stems fromfear and people are afraid of
the unknown.
They're afraid of loss ofcontrol or diminished confidence
(12:07):
.
Confirmation bias and statusquo bias reinforce existing
beliefs, making change feelthreatening.
Common expressions ofresistance look something like
this passive disengagement, opencriticism or even skepticism.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
And that's something that we really want to encourage
that open communication, sothat they not only feel
comfortable to talk, but theyexpose the people that are
resisting at the same time.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Exactly Because if they're being critical and
they're being skeptical, theymight be not showing up for work
.
There might be some absenteeismissues, their productivity
might go down a little bit andthey also cling to what we've
always done right.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, we've tried that before.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
So why does it matter ?
Unaddressed resistance canderail initiatives.
They can fracture teams anderode the trust you might have
earned.
Leaders must recognizeresistance not as defiance but
as a signal for deeperengagement.
They're looking for help, theywant more information, they want
to get folded in, so to speak.
(13:14):
Let's talk a little bit aboutother strategies for guiding
change.
Empathy first Leaders mustlisten actively and validate
folks' concerns.
As Dr Bobby Wagner notes,building strong emotional
connections reduces stress anddrives retention.
So let's look at clarity incommunication.
(13:36):
Transparent messaging about thewhy behind change helps kind of
take the mystery out of theprocess.
Open forums and regular updatesand storytelling foster trust.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And I think in one of our previous podcasts we talked
about an organization thatcreated like a social network so
that they could do this kind ofcommunication, like a social
network so that they could dothis kind of communication, so
it doesn't have to be in a, youknow, put a note in a box kind
of environment.
Setting up a website forexchanging input is one of those
tricks for communication.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
That's right, yeah, involvement and ownership.
Engaging team members inshaping the change increases
their buy-in.
Co-creation of solutionsempowers individuals and reduces
resistance.
Because there's buy-in, becausethey're participating, they're
engaged, they're being heard.
Training and support Equipteams with the tools and
(14:32):
knowledge they need to succeed.
Change is less intimidatingwhen people feel they're
prepared for it.
Yep, and then celebratingmilestones, we say celebrate
success along the way, recognizeprogress, no matter how small.
Celebrations reinforce momentumand often build a culture of
adaptability.
Very true.
(14:52):
The role of transformationleadership has a couple of other
thoughts Modeling vulnerability, leaders who share their own
uncertainties and growth fosterpsychological safety.
So what does this do?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
and advise others to step into change with courage
and that's something that Ithink you and I have done,
especially when we've dealt withchange.
We're at least giving them someinput on what we're feeling.
That that's just kind ofcreating that openness that
you're expecting to see leadersencourage.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yep, how about strategic framing so you could
reframe the change asopportunity, not a threat?
Use metaphors, use stories,vision to inspire forward
movement.
And then, finally, legacythinking Connect change to
long-term purpose.
When teams understand howtransformation aligns with
(15:46):
values and mission, resistancefades.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, and with strategic framing and with
legacy thinking, you have to becareful with the words that you
use.
They are listening to just theinflection in your voice and the
terms that you're using.
Those are kind of important.
You don't want to startcrafting magical messages, but
(16:14):
you don't want to swear.
You don't want to try to comefrom the negative, you want to
try to come from the positive.
You want to try to come fromthe positive and it shouldn't be
Pollyanna, but it should bedirect and they can smell a con
in a heartbeat.
Just you know the honesty pieceof it.
Really, strategic framing andlegacy thinking the only thing
(16:35):
that really combats those kindof negative concepts is truth
and it really kind of showsthrough, if you're a leader, how
that comes through.
So we kind of went over thisfrom two different perspectives
from the background, in terms ofthe psychology piece, and a
little bit about the mechanicsand how we do it, and a little
(16:58):
bit about the mechanics and howwe do it.
But change is not abouteliminating resistance, which is
, I think, important in whatwe're talking about in terms of
transformation With empathy,clarity, strategic leadership,
those words that we talk about.
That really will bring thegroup.
Together, resistance becomessomething more of a catalyst for
(17:21):
growth.
Leaders who embrace thechallenge not only reshape their
organization, but they buildlegacies.
Now I have spent a lot of mytime going from manufacturing
into healthcare, into highereducation, back into healthcare,
and change is the constantmedium in every one of those
(17:42):
formats.
How much and how dependent theyare looking for leadership.
Those change leaders are reallythe ones that they're looking
for and usually have theopportunity for advancement
because they're part of theprocess trying to make a change.
So hopefully these lessons thatwe're talking about are some
(18:05):
help in terms of your travel forbeing a leader.
And, if you like what you'veheard, I've written a book
called Building your LeadershipToolbox and we talk about tools
like this and it's available onAmazon and Barnes, noble and
other sites.
The podcast is what you've beenlistening to.
Thank you so much.
It's also available on Apple,google and Spotify.
(18:27):
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr Durst and his MBR
program.
If you'd like to know moreabout Dr Durst, you can find out
on successgrowthacademycomgrowthacademycom, and if you'd
like to contact us, please sendme a line.
That's wando75.jw at gmailcom.
And the music is brought to youby my grandson.
(18:50):
So we want to hear from you.
Drop me a line, tell me what'sgoing on, what you like and what
you would like to hear about,and it's always helped us to
create content like and what youwould like to hear about, and
it's always helped us to createcontent.
Thanks, greg, this was fun.
Thanks, john, as always.
Next time, yeah.
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