October 17, 2025 • 23 mins
A milestone is only meaningful if it changes what we do next. We’re celebrating 100 episodes by unpacking the MBR leadership framework, mapping advise from avoidance to transformation, and showing how data, story, and practice experiences combine to create lasting impact you can measure and feel.
We break down the eight MBR competencies—strategic foresight, global citizenship, disruptive mindset, people-first leadership, value creation, curiosity, inclusion, and agility—and connect them to the realities of modern work. You’ll hear how experiential learning and peer coaching turn abstract values into daily habits, why 360 feedback accelerates growth, and how podcast analytics mirror the way high-performing organizations track leadership effectiveness. We also preview our forthcoming book, a narrative-meets-seminar that follows Jack’s journey through the gears: from control and burnout to clarity, trust, accountability, and legacy. The book's working title is "The Fifth Gear of Leadership."
The conversation moves from global reach and AI-driven insights to practical dashboards and rituals leaders can adopt right now: explicit decision logs, feedback cadences, stakeholder mapping, and small, repeatable experiments that compound over time. If you lead remote teams, shape culture, or simply want to build a sturdier operating system for change, this one’s designed to be both inspiring and actionable.
If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a leader you trust, and leave a review. Tell us which gear you’re shifting into next and what topic you want us to explore in the next 100.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success,
Secrets, and Stories.
I'm your host, John Wondolowski,and I'm here with my co-host and
friend, Greg Powell.
Greg?
Hey everybody.
And when we put together thispodcast, we wanted to put out a
helping hand and help that nextgeneration and help answer the
(00:35):
question of what does it mean tobe a leader?
Today we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept.
So in our leadership travels, weare celebrating our 100th
episode.
Broadcasting this October.
(00:56):
So congratulations, buddy, we'vedone it.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
John, thank you.
Yes, we did.
And it's been a lot of fun alongthe way.
So when you hit a majormilestone and suddenly realize
just how far you've come, youreally take a pause and think
about it.
So today we're diving into anincredible achievement.
100 episodes of success,secrets, and stories.
And the NBR leadership approachthat's transforming how we think
(01:20):
about leadership development.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
And you know, it's kind of remarkable when you
think about it.
100 episodes representingthousands of minutes on
leadership insights that we'vetalked about, stories of
transformation.
And really, it's a framework inhow we have helped people.
Uh, and the bizarre part, we'vedone it globally.
We have a global audience thatis listening.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
I think that's outstanding.
It is so cool, John.
And what's especiallyfascinating is how the MBR
leadership framework hasevolved.
Can you break down the eight keycompetencies that make it so
unique?
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
Yeah, a lot about what you and I have been
concentrating on are things likethe strategic foresight or how
we handle opportunities in termsof like being a good global
citizen, disruptive mindsets,passion and commitment to the
job, value creation.
Uh really the part that I enjoya lot is the people-first
(02:14):
approach.
And those things kind of moveinto things like diversity and
inclusion.
So it moves into people-firstconcepts, and that kind of fits
in really well to diversity andinclusion, and the ability to be
curious and the agility to beable to adapt.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
So wait, John, those sound incredibly relevant to
today's challenges.
How were these specificcompetencies identified?
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
True.
And fascinating, it really doesrelate to Dr.
Durst's work.
And he's done it a while ago,but it was based on doing
in-depth studies of futureleaders' competencies to
interview senior leaders.
And his goal was to ensure thathe was addressing both the
leadership needs and the futureambitions of those leaders
(03:02):
across different sections ofbusiness, consulting,
accounting, healthcare, and thelist goes on and on.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
You know what's interesting, John?
This reminds me of how podcastmetrics have evolved as well.
You know, because now we'relooking at things like
engagement, retention, globalreach, very similar to how
leadership impact is measured.
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
Yeah, it is an interesting parallel.
And modern leadershipdevelopment and podcasting
success are both data-driven.
We have seen data information onthe Internet, and it really
helps us seasoned leaders, suchas you and I, keep up with what
is considered a more relevantpodcast.
(03:43):
And really, it's a lot of helpfrom the AI world in terms of
looking at the data and givingus some chewable things to talk
about.
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
So, speaking of data, what are some of the
concrete results you've seenfrom implementing the MBR
approach?
SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
Yeah, you know, those some of those results are
just remarkable.
And the framework actually usesthe experiences and applied
learning combined withpeer-to-peer learning that has
influenced leaders within theirorganizations.
And probably the buzzword mostinvolved is being more
self-aware of their impact asleaders.
(04:20):
You know, that sounds incrediblypractical, very common sense.
Yeah, it is.
I mean, that's the bottom line.
It's particularly effective interms of someone who is a little
bit more along the lines ofpragmatic and really uses a
scientific approach in order totest the real-world solutions
and how these concepts areapplied and work.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
You know, reaching 100 episodes of Success,
Secrets, and Stories reallyshowcases the impact of
consistent leadershipdevelopment, doesn't it?
It does.
It does.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
And it you can never stop learning.
And that's that's probably themost fascinating part of the
podcast, is it embodies allthese other new leadership
competencies, especially thatthey focus on things that you
learn on a perspective that isglobal rather than local.
And that I think is really aninteresting part of what we've
(05:12):
seen and how we've adapted ourpodcast.
Very interesting, John.
And can you elaborate on thatconnection a little bit?
Okay, I think I can.
Let's see, podcasting requires astrategic foresight and a
connected plan.
Uh sort of like the globalcitizenship in terms of
addressing diversity.
But it also talks about how tobe a disruptive leader and that
(05:37):
mindset of presenting new ideasand really creating that
friction that you're reallylooking for in order to try to
gain new ideas.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
So, you know, that's really interesting.
So the medium itself becomes atool for leadership development.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
Yeah.
You know, and so what'sinteresting is statistics
support this.
In 2025, they're looking at over500 million podcast listeners
worldwide.
And that's an incredibleplatform of sharing these kinds
of leadership insights.
Those numbers are staggering,but particularly exciting is how
it aligns with the MBR formatand how we've seen a global
(06:16):
reach of people hearing it andactually sharing the impact of
applying MBR on a global sale.
SPEAKER_00 (06:24):
So let's talk about celebration.
How should organizations markthese kinds of milestones in a
way that reinforces leadershipprinciples?
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
You know, celebration in itself is a key
point of recognizing that you'vedone something different and
you're changing your focus.
You have a different kind ofvalue creation.
And those are the kind of thingsthat you're looking at in terms
of an MBR competency.
It's not just about markingtime, but it's demonstrating the
impact of change.
And really, leaders are supposedto be doing that to make that
(06:57):
impact meaningful.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Yeah, that's right.
That's kind of like how we'reusing this 100 episode to share
insights rather than justpatting ourselves on the back,
which we deserve.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
No, no, we don't.
No, we don't.
Uh we're we're trying to helppeople um really to look at how
to reflect on their owncompetencies and putting people
first.
And that's what you and I havebeen doing.
We've been putting the people,our listeners, first and trying
to give them something thatwould be of value.
And and really that's the partthat I enjoy the most.
SPEAKER_00 (07:29):
I couldn't agree more, John.
So, how is the NBR frameworkadapting to future leadership
challenges?
SPEAKER_01 (07:36):
Well, you know, the bottom line is the framework is
curiosity and the ability toinherently adapt.
If you talk about change, thoseare the words that they are
always talking about.
And the businesses in thislandscape are changing all the
time.
You have to be agile just tokeep up with what's happening in
(07:58):
the world and be able to change.
SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
You know, that makes sense.
And the focus on a disruptivemindset ensures leaders are
always prepared for emergingchallenges and those
opportunities.
You know, you mentionedexperiential learning earlier.
How does that play out in realpractice?
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
Yeah, okay.
In the real world, there arethings such as competencies.
And really, if you think aboutit, leadership is a laboratory.
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
So that's a good metaphor.
Can you give us an example?
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
Uh one involves leaders that are uh working in
actual organizations where thechallenges are being met and
leadership is is trying to setthe goals, but at the same time,
they are working withexperienced executives as
coaches.
So it combines not only thestrategic foresight of these
(08:52):
experienced executives that'shelping local management, but
it's a value creation.
And it's really the organizationas a whole putting people first.
And that kind of thinking of notonly the staff, but the
leadership has to change.
That particular leader is doingit on both fronts at the same
time.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
So you know that's a real practical application,
John.
Now, what's remarkable is howthis hands-on approach leads to
measurable improvements inleadership effectiveness.
So let's talk about metrics.
How do organizations' metricsmeasure the success of these
leadership development efforts?
SPEAKER_01 (09:28):
Aaron Powell You know, they're probably doing the
same thing that we see inpodcasts.
So they're they're looking atquantitative data, like every
business environment that youand I have been involved in,
quantitative and measurableformats of data helping to tell
you whether you have a goodperformance matrix or not.
And it's really based on whatyou're seeing with as far as
(09:50):
sales and how you're dealingwith the stakeholders.
And really in a 360 kind ofenvironment, we're dealing with
our employees, their feedback onwhether we're coming across and
they're hearing what we'retrying to do as far as
leadership.
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
Now that is fascinating.
What's fascinating is theparallel between content metrics
and leadership impact.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
You know, podcasts are really based on engagement.
They're really looking at, youknow, people who are listening,
retention of listeners.
And this leadership program, Ithink, is kind of interesting.
We're seeing a very smallaudience, but we can see it
growing over time.
And our reach is not just herein the States, it's actually on
every continent, which is afascinating element of doing
(10:35):
this podcast that we've reachedthat many people.
SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
And really, really cool.
John, what would you say hasbeen the most surprising insight
that you've seen from these 100episodes?
Hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
Okay.
Probably the most surprising ishow universal these leadership
concepts are.
And it is irregardless of yourindustry or your geography, good
leadership is good leadership.
That's the bottom line.
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
You know, that's really interesting.
And actually, it validates theNBR framework emphasis on global
citizenship and diversity andinclusion as key core
competencies.
So looking ahead, what trends doyou see shaping the future of
leadership development?
SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
Yeah, I see uh really an increase of digital
literacy and emotionalintelligence, AI, the world of
AI, and the ability to lead inour remote teams and how if
you're going to be a globalenvironment, you have to be able
to speak to the audience thatsometimes you never get a chance
to shake their hand.
(11:38):
You have to know how toeffectively communicate to
people who are remotely working.
That's the future.
SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
So, how does the MBR framework address these very
clear emerging needs?
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
Yeah, you know, that's the challenge.
And these competencies in termsof being adaptable is probably
the most important, especiallywith that disruptive mindset and
really finding that curiosity inyour employees and pushing for
that innovation.
Leaders need to innovate to makethose changes possible.
SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
Yeah, John, that makes a lot of sense.
And the emphasis on continuouslearning ensures leaders stay
current with evolving businessneeds and I'll say
opportunities.
SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
Yeah, and you know, I've been working on a book, and
the book is actually my attemptat using the one-minute manager
style from Ken Blanchard.
And it's a novel about business,which is uh really a unique
application of um how KenBlanchard wanted to tell the
story.
(12:41):
And I've always thought aboutthat concept and how we could
take MBR to the next level usingthat as a key.
So just for fun, I asked Dr.
Durst if he would like to trysomething like that.
And we've been working on thisproject for a while and pretty
close to uh actually getting thebook ready for sale.
SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
Ah, yes, the fifth gear of leadership.
I love how you and Dr.
Durst use Jack's journey toillustrate the emotional and
relational shifts leaders gothrough.
It's not just a framework, it'sa story that resonates.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
I'm glad that you like the book, and that that
really is one of the fun partsof doing this podcast with you.
But it was our goal.
We wanted a novel that wouldbring to life the experience of
this leadership course.
And it's not just a theory, butit's transformational.
Jack is our fictional hero, andthrough his lens, the reader
(13:37):
gets to experience the MBRprocess.
Not only at its core, the bookis more than just a story, it's
an invitation.
An invitation?
Yes.
It's designed to feel likeyou're sitting in the seminar
room with Dr.
Durst, absorbing his lessonslike I did.
Through the dialogue, thereflection, and the real-world
(13:59):
application.
Dr.
Durst has done a reallyremarkable way of putting on
paper the way that he was ableto teach.
Wonderful examples that wereengaging, and the insights were
actually grounded in hisexperience and his approach to
leadership that felt verypersonable, very actionable.
So would you call the book bothnarrative and kind of a seminar?
(14:22):
Exactly.
It's a hybrid.
It's a little bit about Jack'sjourney and also an immersive
classroom experience.
Readers walk through like thefive steps, or as I, as we've
called it, the five gears ofleadership, representing a
deeper level of ownership,empathy, and legacy, which is
probably the interestingelement.
(14:43):
And you get to see it throughJack's eyes and how he
experienced the NBR framework inmotion.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
So that's a powerful concept.
You kind of wet our appetites alittle bit.
Give our audience a little tasteof Jack's journey.
Where does it begin?
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
All right.
Well, you know, I used to be amechanic, and and Dr.
Dirst kind of went with the leadof the five gears of leadership.
And the first gear is Jack istechnically in charge of his
emotions, but he feelsdisengaged.
He avoids conflict.
Um, he deflects blame.
(15:21):
And he's he's basically in anavoidance mode, low morale, he's
passive, um, compliance driven.
But this is actually where youlook at in his story, more like
a 40-hour work week.
And he was just coasting, he wasjust surviving.
That was that was the essence offirst gear.
(15:44):
And then he shifts into secondgear?
Yeah.
And he gets an opportunity, andit's a little bit more
task-driven.
And being from more of amechanical end, yet Jack is a
machinist, he's now obsessedwith tasks and the matrix and
control and doing things right.
But it's also um an element ofwhat he's seen when from
(16:07):
previous supervisors, verycontrolled, micromanaged, uh,
very directive and rigid.
Sure, it's it's progress and itis getting the job done, but
also leads to burnout prettyfast.
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
So that's where leadership starts to feel real.
Less about control, but a wholelot more about connection.
SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
Yeah, and that's actually where he starts to
shift into our third gear, uh,being a rational leader.
Jack begins to listen, he opensup, builds trust, and he sees
his team as people, not justproducers.
The vulnerability starts toenter the room, and with it, the
connection with his staff.
There's an emphasis in terms ofbeing open, and you know, the
(16:53):
element of self-doubt starts tokick in, and now it's you know
far more tangible.
And he recognizes that it's ashared responsibility at that
point.
So leadership is less aboutcontrol and more about
cooperation.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
And that leads us to the fourth gear.
SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
Yeah.
And really, a lot of people areat this level of an accountable
leader.
Um, Jack owns his impact and heleads by example.
He aligns his values with theorganization and with his
actions.
And he's holding himself and hisstaff accountable.
That really becomes integrity,becomes his compass.
(17:32):
And there's a clarity, and he'sempowered in terms of a
value-driven environment.
And really that's the core ofwhat MBR is about.
But there's a fifth gear, andthat's that's kind of the
interesting element, but there'sthat leadership that's starting
to actually happen at thislevel.
SPEAKER_00 (17:51):
And finally, fifth gear, transformational
leadership.
SPEAKER_01 (17:56):
Yeah.
And, you know, sometimestransformational leadership is
uh described as a conductor.
And Jack realizes that there's amastery of this leadership
concept in terms of how toinspire people, not through
control, but through clarity,through trust, through
conviction.
And it really does start todevelop something in terms of a
(18:18):
legacy.
And a lot of what you and I havedone with our staff, so whenever
we were working in the workenvironment, we were trying to
help other people so that whenwe left, we were building that
strength of the organization,that there were others that you
have influenced, that you'vehelped it become more transform
uh transformational.
And really, that's that's thefifth gear.
(18:38):
It's it's not just a shift, it'sa breakthrough.
You're it's an invitation tounderstand that you might have
been stuck in terms of 40-hourwork week and how this concept
of the book is a roadmap.
It's not perfection, it's allabout the process.
But every gear is really achoice.
And the bottom line is you'retrying to tell somebody to take
(19:01):
the wheel.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
So, John, this has been great.
I feel like I'm shifting gearsin my seat.
You know, that metaphor is sopowerful.
And it mirrors our podcastjourney.
From our first episode to now,we've shifted too toward deeper
conversations, broader impact,and global reach.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
And like Jack in our story, it's about leadership and
the way of being, just learningthat it's your framework and
it's the things that you havedone as your roadmap is going to
help you in terms of how you goforward and how it's applied
daily.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
So let's talk about how organizations can help their
leaders actually shift thosegears.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Ah, yeah, the rubber meets the road again.
It starts with experimentallearning and real-world
challenges and peer mentoringand reflection.
Really, self-awareness is animportant element of leadership,
and you have to have that.
But leaders also have to feelthe friction of growth.
And that's where transformationreally starts to begin, because
(20:07):
that friction is that element ofreally seeing change.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
And metrics matter.
As we've said in the past, whatgets measured gets done.
So just like podcast analytics,leadership development needs
both quantitative andqualitative feedback, which you
know, to me, feedback is a gift.
SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
Yeah.
And really, you talked a lotabout the 360 approach in terms
of getting feedback.
And you saw the effect of that360 approach really affects
staff, but really change the wayleadership conducted themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
So we think about 360 feedback, it's a great tool,
especially when you're workingwith your best and brightest.
How can they get better?
They're going to get really goodquality feedback from not just
their supervisor, not just theirpeers, not just their
subordinates, but multiplefacets of information to help
them understand what they'redoing well, what they can do
better.
And it really opens up uh theireyes to continuous improvement.
(21:05):
And it's your definition ofgold.
SPEAKER_01 (21:08):
I mean, that's exactly.
And we measure team performanceand stakeholders' impact and
behavioral shifts.
And it's all about tracking thejourney.
It's not just the destination.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
So that's a beautiful way to mark our 100th
episode.
Not just looking back, butlooking forward as well.
SPEAKER_01 (21:26):
And that's the essence of leadership.
Every milestone is just thebeginning of the next chapter.
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
So here's to Jack to the MBR framework, and to every
listener ready to take thewheel.
SPEAKER_01 (21:37):
So let's shift into fifth gear together.
Leadership development, likepodcasting, is a journey of
continuous improvement.
The MBR framework provides aroadmap.
And that's where the magicreally happens.
The daily application of theseprinciples.
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
That's beautifully put, John.
Just as we've reached themilestone of 100 episodes, each
leader's journey is marked bysimilar moments of achievement
and reflection.
You got any final words ofwisdom for us?
SPEAKER_01 (22:05):
Remember, great leadership, like great content,
is creating value for others.
That's the true measurement ofsuccess.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
What a perfect way to mark this milestone.
Thank you for joining John andI.
And here's to the next 100episodes of Leadership Insights.
Thanks, man.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
It's been fun.
I've written a book calledBuilding Your Leadership
Toolbox, and we talk about toolslike this.
And it's available on Amazon andBarnes Nouble and other sites.
The podcast is what you've beenlistening to.
Thank you so much.
It's also available on Apple,Google, and Spotify.
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr.
Durst in his MBR program.
(22:44):
If you'd like to know more aboutDr.
Durst, you can find out onSuccessGrowthAcademy.com.
And if you'd like to contact us,please send me a line.
That's Wando75 periodjw atgmail.com.
And the music has been broughtto you by my grandson.
(23:04):
So we want to hear from you.
Drop me a line.
Tell me what's going on, whatyou like, and what you would
like to hear about.
It has always helped us tocreate content.
Thanks, Greg.
This was fun.
SPEAKER_00 (23:17):
Thanks, John.
As always.
Next time.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Yeah.
Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success,
Secrets, and Stories.
I'm your host, John Wondolowski,and I'm here with my co-host and
friend, Greg Powell.
Greg?
Hey everybody.
And when we put together thispodcast, we wanted to put out a
helping hand and help that nextgeneration and help answer the
(00:35):
question of what does it mean tobe a leader?
Today we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept.
So in our leadership travels, weare celebrating our 100th
episode.
Broadcasting this October.
(00:56):
So congratulations, buddy, we'vedone it.
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
John, thank you.
Yes, we did.
And it's been a lot of fun alongthe way.
So when you hit a majormilestone and suddenly realize
just how far you've come, youreally take a pause and think
about it.
So today we're diving into anincredible achievement.
100 episodes of success,secrets, and stories.
And the NBR leadership approachthat's transforming how we think
(01:20):
about leadership development.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
And you know, it's kind of remarkable when you
think about it.
100 episodes representingthousands of minutes on
leadership insights that we'vetalked about, stories of
transformation.
And really, it's a framework inhow we have helped people.
Uh, and the bizarre part, we'vedone it globally.
We have a global audience thatis listening.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
I think that's outstanding.
It is so cool, John.
And what's especiallyfascinating is how the MBR
leadership framework hasevolved.
Can you break down the eight keycompetencies that make it so
unique?
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
Yeah, a lot about what you and I have been
concentrating on are things likethe strategic foresight or how
we handle opportunities in termsof like being a good global
citizen, disruptive mindsets,passion and commitment to the
job, value creation.
Uh really the part that I enjoya lot is the people-first
(02:14):
approach.
And those things kind of moveinto things like diversity and
inclusion.
So it moves into people-firstconcepts, and that kind of fits
in really well to diversity andinclusion, and the ability to be
curious and the agility to beable to adapt.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
So wait, John, those sound incredibly relevant to
today's challenges.
How were these specificcompetencies identified?
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
True.
And fascinating, it really doesrelate to Dr.
Durst's work.
And he's done it a while ago,but it was based on doing
in-depth studies of futureleaders' competencies to
interview senior leaders.
And his goal was to ensure thathe was addressing both the
leadership needs and the futureambitions of those leaders
(03:02):
across different sections ofbusiness, consulting,
accounting, healthcare, and thelist goes on and on.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
You know what's interesting, John?
This reminds me of how podcastmetrics have evolved as well.
You know, because now we'relooking at things like
engagement, retention, globalreach, very similar to how
leadership impact is measured.
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
Yeah, it is an interesting parallel.
And modern leadershipdevelopment and podcasting
success are both data-driven.
We have seen data information onthe Internet, and it really
helps us seasoned leaders, suchas you and I, keep up with what
is considered a more relevantpodcast.
(03:43):
And really, it's a lot of helpfrom the AI world in terms of
looking at the data and givingus some chewable things to talk
about.
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
So, speaking of data, what are some of the
concrete results you've seenfrom implementing the MBR
approach?
SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
Yeah, you know, those some of those results are
just remarkable.
And the framework actually usesthe experiences and applied
learning combined withpeer-to-peer learning that has
influenced leaders within theirorganizations.
And probably the buzzword mostinvolved is being more
self-aware of their impact asleaders.
(04:20):
You know, that sounds incrediblypractical, very common sense.
Yeah, it is.
I mean, that's the bottom line.
It's particularly effective interms of someone who is a little
bit more along the lines ofpragmatic and really uses a
scientific approach in order totest the real-world solutions
and how these concepts areapplied and work.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
You know, reaching 100 episodes of Success,
Secrets, and Stories reallyshowcases the impact of
consistent leadershipdevelopment, doesn't it?
It does.
It does.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
And it you can never stop learning.
And that's that's probably themost fascinating part of the
podcast, is it embodies allthese other new leadership
competencies, especially thatthey focus on things that you
learn on a perspective that isglobal rather than local.
And that I think is really aninteresting part of what we've
(05:12):
seen and how we've adapted ourpodcast.
Very interesting, John.
And can you elaborate on thatconnection a little bit?
Okay, I think I can.
Let's see, podcasting requires astrategic foresight and a
connected plan.
Uh sort of like the globalcitizenship in terms of
addressing diversity.
But it also talks about how tobe a disruptive leader and that
(05:37):
mindset of presenting new ideasand really creating that
friction that you're reallylooking for in order to try to
gain new ideas.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
So, you know, that's really interesting.
So the medium itself becomes atool for leadership development.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
Yeah.
You know, and so what'sinteresting is statistics
support this.
In 2025, they're looking at over500 million podcast listeners
worldwide.
And that's an incredibleplatform of sharing these kinds
of leadership insights.
Those numbers are staggering,but particularly exciting is how
it aligns with the MBR formatand how we've seen a global
(06:16):
reach of people hearing it andactually sharing the impact of
applying MBR on a global sale.
SPEAKER_00 (06:24):
So let's talk about celebration.
How should organizations markthese kinds of milestones in a
way that reinforces leadershipprinciples?
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
You know, celebration in itself is a key
point of recognizing that you'vedone something different and
you're changing your focus.
You have a different kind ofvalue creation.
And those are the kind of thingsthat you're looking at in terms
of an MBR competency.
It's not just about markingtime, but it's demonstrating the
impact of change.
And really, leaders are supposedto be doing that to make that
(06:57):
impact meaningful.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Yeah, that's right.
That's kind of like how we'reusing this 100 episode to share
insights rather than justpatting ourselves on the back,
which we deserve.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
No, no, we don't.
No, we don't.
Uh we're we're trying to helppeople um really to look at how
to reflect on their owncompetencies and putting people
first.
And that's what you and I havebeen doing.
We've been putting the people,our listeners, first and trying
to give them something thatwould be of value.
And and really that's the partthat I enjoy the most.
SPEAKER_00 (07:29):
I couldn't agree more, John.
So, how is the NBR frameworkadapting to future leadership
challenges?
SPEAKER_01 (07:36):
Well, you know, the bottom line is the framework is
curiosity and the ability toinherently adapt.
If you talk about change, thoseare the words that they are
always talking about.
And the businesses in thislandscape are changing all the
time.
You have to be agile just tokeep up with what's happening in
(07:58):
the world and be able to change.
SPEAKER_00 (08:01):
You know, that makes sense.
And the focus on a disruptivemindset ensures leaders are
always prepared for emergingchallenges and those
opportunities.
You know, you mentionedexperiential learning earlier.
How does that play out in realpractice?
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
Yeah, okay.
In the real world, there arethings such as competencies.
And really, if you think aboutit, leadership is a laboratory.
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
So that's a good metaphor.
Can you give us an example?
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
Uh one involves leaders that are uh working in
actual organizations where thechallenges are being met and
leadership is is trying to setthe goals, but at the same time,
they are working withexperienced executives as
coaches.
So it combines not only thestrategic foresight of these
(08:52):
experienced executives that'shelping local management, but
it's a value creation.
And it's really the organizationas a whole putting people first.
And that kind of thinking of notonly the staff, but the
leadership has to change.
That particular leader is doingit on both fronts at the same
time.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
So you know that's a real practical application,
John.
Now, what's remarkable is howthis hands-on approach leads to
measurable improvements inleadership effectiveness.
So let's talk about metrics.
How do organizations' metricsmeasure the success of these
leadership development efforts?
SPEAKER_01 (09:28):
Aaron Powell You know, they're probably doing the
same thing that we see inpodcasts.
So they're they're looking atquantitative data, like every
business environment that youand I have been involved in,
quantitative and measurableformats of data helping to tell
you whether you have a goodperformance matrix or not.
And it's really based on whatyou're seeing with as far as
(09:50):
sales and how you're dealingwith the stakeholders.
And really in a 360 kind ofenvironment, we're dealing with
our employees, their feedback onwhether we're coming across and
they're hearing what we'retrying to do as far as
leadership.
SPEAKER_00 (10:05):
Now that is fascinating.
What's fascinating is theparallel between content metrics
and leadership impact.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
You know, podcasts are really based on engagement.
They're really looking at, youknow, people who are listening,
retention of listeners.
And this leadership program, Ithink, is kind of interesting.
We're seeing a very smallaudience, but we can see it
growing over time.
And our reach is not just herein the States, it's actually on
every continent, which is afascinating element of doing
(10:35):
this podcast that we've reachedthat many people.
SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
And really, really cool.
John, what would you say hasbeen the most surprising insight
that you've seen from these 100episodes?
Hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
Okay.
Probably the most surprising ishow universal these leadership
concepts are.
And it is irregardless of yourindustry or your geography, good
leadership is good leadership.
That's the bottom line.
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
You know, that's really interesting.
And actually, it validates theNBR framework emphasis on global
citizenship and diversity andinclusion as key core
competencies.
So looking ahead, what trends doyou see shaping the future of
leadership development?
SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
Yeah, I see uh really an increase of digital
literacy and emotionalintelligence, AI, the world of
AI, and the ability to lead inour remote teams and how if
you're going to be a globalenvironment, you have to be able
to speak to the audience thatsometimes you never get a chance
to shake their hand.
(11:38):
You have to know how toeffectively communicate to
people who are remotely working.
That's the future.
SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
So, how does the MBR framework address these very
clear emerging needs?
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
Yeah, you know, that's the challenge.
And these competencies in termsof being adaptable is probably
the most important, especiallywith that disruptive mindset and
really finding that curiosity inyour employees and pushing for
that innovation.
Leaders need to innovate to makethose changes possible.
SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
Yeah, John, that makes a lot of sense.
And the emphasis on continuouslearning ensures leaders stay
current with evolving businessneeds and I'll say
opportunities.
SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
Yeah, and you know, I've been working on a book, and
the book is actually my attemptat using the one-minute manager
style from Ken Blanchard.
And it's a novel about business,which is uh really a unique
application of um how KenBlanchard wanted to tell the
story.
(12:41):
And I've always thought aboutthat concept and how we could
take MBR to the next level usingthat as a key.
So just for fun, I asked Dr.
Durst if he would like to trysomething like that.
And we've been working on thisproject for a while and pretty
close to uh actually getting thebook ready for sale.
SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
Ah, yes, the fifth gear of leadership.
I love how you and Dr.
Durst use Jack's journey toillustrate the emotional and
relational shifts leaders gothrough.
It's not just a framework, it'sa story that resonates.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
I'm glad that you like the book, and that that
really is one of the fun partsof doing this podcast with you.
But it was our goal.
We wanted a novel that wouldbring to life the experience of
this leadership course.
And it's not just a theory, butit's transformational.
Jack is our fictional hero, andthrough his lens, the reader
(13:37):
gets to experience the MBRprocess.
Not only at its core, the bookis more than just a story, it's
an invitation.
An invitation?
Yes.
It's designed to feel likeyou're sitting in the seminar
room with Dr.
Durst, absorbing his lessonslike I did.
Through the dialogue, thereflection, and the real-world
(13:59):
application.
Dr.
Durst has done a reallyremarkable way of putting on
paper the way that he was ableto teach.
Wonderful examples that wereengaging, and the insights were
actually grounded in hisexperience and his approach to
leadership that felt verypersonable, very actionable.
So would you call the book bothnarrative and kind of a seminar?
(14:22):
Exactly.
It's a hybrid.
It's a little bit about Jack'sjourney and also an immersive
classroom experience.
Readers walk through like thefive steps, or as I, as we've
called it, the five gears ofleadership, representing a
deeper level of ownership,empathy, and legacy, which is
probably the interestingelement.
(14:43):
And you get to see it throughJack's eyes and how he
experienced the NBR framework inmotion.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
So that's a powerful concept.
You kind of wet our appetites alittle bit.
Give our audience a little tasteof Jack's journey.
Where does it begin?
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
All right.
Well, you know, I used to be amechanic, and and Dr.
Dirst kind of went with the leadof the five gears of leadership.
And the first gear is Jack istechnically in charge of his
emotions, but he feelsdisengaged.
He avoids conflict.
Um, he deflects blame.
(15:21):
And he's he's basically in anavoidance mode, low morale, he's
passive, um, compliance driven.
But this is actually where youlook at in his story, more like
a 40-hour work week.
And he was just coasting, he wasjust surviving.
That was that was the essence offirst gear.
(15:44):
And then he shifts into secondgear?
Yeah.
And he gets an opportunity, andit's a little bit more
task-driven.
And being from more of amechanical end, yet Jack is a
machinist, he's now obsessedwith tasks and the matrix and
control and doing things right.
But it's also um an element ofwhat he's seen when from
(16:07):
previous supervisors, verycontrolled, micromanaged, uh,
very directive and rigid.
Sure, it's it's progress and itis getting the job done, but
also leads to burnout prettyfast.
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
So that's where leadership starts to feel real.
Less about control, but a wholelot more about connection.
SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
Yeah, and that's actually where he starts to
shift into our third gear, uh,being a rational leader.
Jack begins to listen, he opensup, builds trust, and he sees
his team as people, not justproducers.
The vulnerability starts toenter the room, and with it, the
connection with his staff.
There's an emphasis in terms ofbeing open, and you know, the
(16:53):
element of self-doubt starts tokick in, and now it's you know
far more tangible.
And he recognizes that it's ashared responsibility at that
point.
So leadership is less aboutcontrol and more about
cooperation.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
And that leads us to the fourth gear.
SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
Yeah.
And really, a lot of people areat this level of an accountable
leader.
Um, Jack owns his impact and heleads by example.
He aligns his values with theorganization and with his
actions.
And he's holding himself and hisstaff accountable.
That really becomes integrity,becomes his compass.
(17:32):
And there's a clarity, and he'sempowered in terms of a
value-driven environment.
And really that's the core ofwhat MBR is about.
But there's a fifth gear, andthat's that's kind of the
interesting element, but there'sthat leadership that's starting
to actually happen at thislevel.
SPEAKER_00 (17:51):
And finally, fifth gear, transformational
leadership.
SPEAKER_01 (17:56):
Yeah.
And, you know, sometimestransformational leadership is
uh described as a conductor.
And Jack realizes that there's amastery of this leadership
concept in terms of how toinspire people, not through
control, but through clarity,through trust, through
conviction.
And it really does start todevelop something in terms of a
(18:18):
legacy.
And a lot of what you and I havedone with our staff, so whenever
we were working in the workenvironment, we were trying to
help other people so that whenwe left, we were building that
strength of the organization,that there were others that you
have influenced, that you'vehelped it become more transform
uh transformational.
And really, that's that's thefifth gear.
(18:38):
It's it's not just a shift, it'sa breakthrough.
You're it's an invitation tounderstand that you might have
been stuck in terms of 40-hourwork week and how this concept
of the book is a roadmap.
It's not perfection, it's allabout the process.
But every gear is really achoice.
And the bottom line is you'retrying to tell somebody to take
(19:01):
the wheel.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
So, John, this has been great.
I feel like I'm shifting gearsin my seat.
You know, that metaphor is sopowerful.
And it mirrors our podcastjourney.
From our first episode to now,we've shifted too toward deeper
conversations, broader impact,and global reach.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
And like Jack in our story, it's about leadership and
the way of being, just learningthat it's your framework and
it's the things that you havedone as your roadmap is going to
help you in terms of how you goforward and how it's applied
daily.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
So let's talk about how organizations can help their
leaders actually shift thosegears.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Ah, yeah, the rubber meets the road again.
It starts with experimentallearning and real-world
challenges and peer mentoringand reflection.
Really, self-awareness is animportant element of leadership,
and you have to have that.
But leaders also have to feelthe friction of growth.
And that's where transformationreally starts to begin, because
(20:07):
that friction is that element ofreally seeing change.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
And metrics matter.
As we've said in the past, whatgets measured gets done.
So just like podcast analytics,leadership development needs
both quantitative andqualitative feedback, which you
know, to me, feedback is a gift.
SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
Yeah.
And really, you talked a lotabout the 360 approach in terms
of getting feedback.
And you saw the effect of that360 approach really affects
staff, but really change the wayleadership conducted themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
So we think about 360 feedback, it's a great tool,
especially when you're workingwith your best and brightest.
How can they get better?
They're going to get really goodquality feedback from not just
their supervisor, not just theirpeers, not just their
subordinates, but multiplefacets of information to help
them understand what they'redoing well, what they can do
better.
And it really opens up uh theireyes to continuous improvement.
(21:05):
And it's your definition ofgold.
SPEAKER_01 (21:08):
I mean, that's exactly.
And we measure team performanceand stakeholders' impact and
behavioral shifts.
And it's all about tracking thejourney.
It's not just the destination.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
So that's a beautiful way to mark our 100th
episode.
Not just looking back, butlooking forward as well.
SPEAKER_01 (21:26):
And that's the essence of leadership.
Every milestone is just thebeginning of the next chapter.
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
So here's to Jack to the MBR framework, and to every
listener ready to take thewheel.
SPEAKER_01 (21:37):
So let's shift into fifth gear together.
Leadership development, likepodcasting, is a journey of
continuous improvement.
The MBR framework provides aroadmap.
And that's where the magicreally happens.
The daily application of theseprinciples.
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
That's beautifully put, John.
Just as we've reached themilestone of 100 episodes, each
leader's journey is marked bysimilar moments of achievement
and reflection.
You got any final words ofwisdom for us?
SPEAKER_01 (22:05):
Remember, great leadership, like great content,
is creating value for others.
That's the true measurement ofsuccess.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
What a perfect way to mark this milestone.
Thank you for joining John andI.
And here's to the next 100episodes of Leadership Insights.
Thanks, man.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
It's been fun.
I've written a book calledBuilding Your Leadership
Toolbox, and we talk about toolslike this.
And it's available on Amazon andBarnes Nouble and other sites.
The podcast is what you've beenlistening to.
Thank you so much.
It's also available on Apple,Google, and Spotify.
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr.
Durst in his MBR program.
(22:44):
If you'd like to know more aboutDr.
Durst, you can find out onSuccessGrowthAcademy.com.
And if you'd like to contact us,please send me a line.
That's Wando75 periodjw atgmail.com.
And the music has been broughtto you by my grandson.
(23:04):
So we want to hear from you.
Drop me a line.
Tell me what's going on, whatyou like, and what you would
like to hear about.
It has always helped us tocreate content.
Thanks, Greg.
This was fun.
SPEAKER_00 (23:17):
Thanks, John.
As always.
Next time.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Yeah.
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