October 10, 2025 • 23 mins
Ever wondered why some workplaces seem to hum with energy while others feel like productivity graveyards? The answer might surprise you. Leadership experts John Wandolowski and Greg Powell unpack the fascinating connection between workplace joy and bottom-line results in this eye-opening conversation.
Backed by compelling research, they reveal that companies fostering workplace happiness see 21% higher profitability than their competitors. This isn't just feel-good fluff—it's neuroscience. When we experience joy, our brains release dopamine, enhancing memory, learning, and creative problem-solving. Perhaps most shocking: when researchers asked 15,000 professionals where they got their best ideas, not a single person mentioned the traditional work environment.
The hosts break down Dr. Martin Seligman's PERMA model (Positive emotions, Engagement, Relationships, Meaning, Accomplishments) and share practical, low-cost strategies any leader can implement tomorrow. From simple gratitude practices that transform team dynamics to creative approaches like hackathons, reverse mentorship programs, and recognition rituals that celebrate both successes and productive failures, these tools create environments where innovation naturally thrives.
For leaders feeling the pressure to deliver results in challenging times, this episode offers a refreshing perspective: creating joy at work isn't just nice—it's a strategic imperative. As John puts it, "Leaders are culture architects," responsible for modeling the behaviors that shape organizational norms. Through vulnerability, recognition, and intentional culture-building, they can transform disengagement (currently affecting over 50% of workers) into energized, committed teams.
Ready to transform your leadership approach? Listen now, then grab John's book "Building Your Leadership Toolbox" on Amazon and Barnes & Noble, or reach out directly with your questions and topic suggestions at wando75.jw@gmail.com.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Well, hello and welcome to our podcast Success
Secrets and Stories.
I'm your host, john Wondoloski,and I'm here with my co-host
and friend, greg Powell.
Greg, hey, everybody.
And when we put together thispodcast, we wanted to put out a
helping hand and help that nextgeneration and help answer the
(00:35):
question of what does it mean tobe a leader?
Today, we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept, about a subjectthat I think supports that
concept.
So, to that end, let's startwith a simple concept there are
more ways that you can find orencourage fun at work, and we
(00:55):
want to talk about that today.
We'll explore how leaders caninfuse joy into the workplace.
They can do things like havingsome games in terms of quality
control.
They can look intocross-functional camaraderie
days, personal innovation time.
There's a whole bunch of thingsthat we can talk about and, as
a leader, it is yourresponsibility to create the
(01:16):
culture within the organizationthat you control, not somebody
else.
Enhance the work environment.
You'll improve not only a senseof joy, but you'll find that
your staff and you will havesome fun in the process.
So let's talk about fun.
Right now, more than 50% aredisengaged at work.
(01:38):
It's a staggering number ofpeople who are just going
through the motions.
Today we're exploring howleaders can transform their
workplace through unexpectedsolutions like joy.
We'll uncover the sciencebehind workplace happiness,
(02:00):
practical strategies for leadersand why fun is one of the most
underrated productivity tools inbusiness, according to recent
studies.
When employees report they'rehaving fun at work, they see
companies that are usually 21%higher in profitability.
It's not just about feelinggood, it's about the bottom line
(02:21):
, and that makes a hugedifference.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Fascinating.
Most people think productivityand fun are total opposites.
Right, but research shows theyare deeply connected.
But what exactly do we mean byfun at work?
Are we talking about constantparties?
Not at all, right.
No, it's more about creating anenvironment where people feel
energized and totally engaged.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Right, I mean, there's the point.
It's fascinating thatneuroscience is behind this.
That's the key.
And when we experienceenjoyment, our brains release
dopamines, that feel-goodchemical.
And dopamines doesn't just makeus feel good, it enhances
memory retention and learning.
So when the work is enjoyable,we actually get more out of our
(03:12):
employees and we have a betterkind of quality of work.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
That's incredible, but with all the pressures
leaders face to deliver results,can't forget about that.
How do they justify focusing onfun?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think they're putting it up as a
corporate discussion, butthat's where really the study
really becomes compelling.
They're showing organizationswith high level of employee
engagement to be the mostprofitable.
They have the highestproductivity and experience the
lowest turnover rates.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So it's not about making people happy, it's about
creating sustainable businesssuccess.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, and here's some things that might surprise you.
When researchers ask where didthey get their best ideas, over
80% of them were actually sayingthat during relaxing activities
like taking a shower whichobviously isn't happening at
work or playing with the kids.
Not a single person out of15,000 that they asked got their
(04:12):
best ideas at work.
Now that has to be a hugewake-up call for the traditional
work environments that might bestifling that kind of
creativity.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So what can leaders do to change this?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So you know we like to look at people who are
references.
And PERMA, developed by DrMartin Singelman from the
University of Pennsylvania, andhe created an essential
component of well-being.
I love when these docs do thisbecause it's another acumen, and
you know how much the medicalworld loves acumens, but this
one's actually a pretty good one.
(04:48):
Positive emotions, engagement,relationships, meaning
accomplishments, and that'salmost like common sense.
This should be another phrasethat should be put in there.
When leaders focus on theseelements, they create an
environment where peoplenaturally thrive.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Really we need another acumen at this point.
Yeah, well, okay, I get theperma, but can you give us some
practical, concrete examples?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Sure, I mean, everybody likes to talk about
Google, right, and they're knownfor their innovative approach
in terms of workforce culture.
They're operating with flexiblework arrangements, mental
health resources, regularrecognition programs and it
works.
They are constantly ranked asone of the best places to work.
They have high employeesatisfaction and low turnover
(05:41):
rates, and that's really a keypoint.
But it's not just about theperks.
It's creating an environmentwhere people feel valued and
supported and engaged.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You know, John, not every company can be a Google,
right.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, no, that's true .
No, they're also the oneeverybody likes to reference,
but any company can implementthose core principles.
Take Starbucks, for example.
Yeah, I know they're anotherexample everybody brings up.
But they focus on recognitionand rewards, calling their
employees partners that's a keypoint and they offer benefits
(06:19):
like stock options and tuitionassistance.
And it does make a differencestock options and tuition
assistance and it does make adifference.
They have seen an increase ofemployee loyalty and engagement
and it is a sense of communityand appreciation.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
So, John, what about those smaller companies that
have limited resources?
What can they do?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Right, right.
Well, sometimes the mosteffective strategies don't cost
anything Simple acts ofrecognition like publicly
acknowledging the good work orsending a thank you note and I
have seen thank you notes have ahuge impact.
I've even seen people put thethank you note on the wall.
That's how rare people haveactually talked about how good
(07:01):
someone has done their job.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So, if I understand you correctly, it's really more
about the approach than aboutthe budget.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
It has to be exactly.
Research shows that feelingvalued and appreciated is one of
the strongest drivers inengagement.
It's about creating a positiveemotion, and that's what we talk
about when they have the acumenof P-E-R-M-A.
Let's talk about the resistanceto these ideas.
(07:29):
What would you say to leaderswho worry about too much fun
will decrease productivity?
Well, actually, the data showsthe exact opposite.
According to Bright HR, 79% ofthe employees believe that fun
at work leads to higherproductivity.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So from my past, I'm familiar with BrightHR.
They're an online humanresources HR software provider
for small and medium-sizedbusinesses.
The company's statement that79% of employees who have fun at
work leads to higherproductivity was based on a
survey conducted in a 2016report that says it pays to play
(08:08):
.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That's a pretty strong argument you know, going
through this research is one ofthose challenges.
Let's go a little bit deeper.
When people experience positiveemotions at work, they are more
likely to collaborateeffectively and come up with
innovative solutions.
Fun actually fuels innovation.
There is solid science behindit.
(08:30):
When we're having fun and we'rein a playful state, our brain
shifts from that stress andoverworked mode to relaxing and
being creative.
When we're stressed, we tend tofocus on survival rather than
innovation.
A lot of the research showspositive emotions enhance brain
functions, boosting creativityand problem solving.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So what's the first step, John, for leaders who want
to create more joy in theworkplace?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Good point.
You are in charge of modelingthe culture that you create
within your work environment.
You, the leader, is also aculture architect.
You have to take a look at thebehaviors and shape those in
terms of norms and values, ofthe organization.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Okay, but not that corporate speak In plain English
.
How do you create the kind ofenvironment you're looking for?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
corporate speak in plain English how do you create
the kind of environment you'relooking for?
If you want people to feel safeby being creative and taking
risks, you need to demonstrateit yourself.
Share in your own failures andyour learnings, create an
innovative thinking.
Even if it doesn't succeed,you're showing that
vulnerability as a leader can bethe most powerful tool in terms
(09:46):
of communication.
It is, as studies have talkedabout, prioritizing
psychological safety andcooperation.
It fosters innovation trustthroughout the organization.
If they feel like you're beinghonest and you're being truthful
, they can see that.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
So, John, we talked in the past about measuring.
How do you measure success?
How can leaders track if thesechanges are really working?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Okay, so you know you've always talked about how
surveys are critical and howsurveys are literally gold in
the world of HR, but there'sthings that HR talks about in
terms of metrics of turnoverrates and sick days and
productivity levels.
All those things are thereal-world measurements and you
(10:37):
often see places that have thatjoy element within their jobs as
these numbers being better thanothers.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So are there any surprising indicators?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, research shows that engaged employees report
lower anxiety and depressionvery key, especially in today's
world of mental health and howit's become important and there
are fewer physical health issueslike chronic pain and fatigue.
So the benefits extend beyondthe workplace.
(11:09):
Absolutely, when people arehappier at work, it's a positive
impact and overall there's asatisfaction.
That's just, you know, insimple terms, psychologically,
well-being is being displayed.
That's powerful.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Any final advice for those leaders?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
The workplace isn't just a luxury that you have as a
leader.
It is a strategic imperative intoday's competitive environment
that you engage employees.
Employees are your greatestasset and that's really the
essence of what you should beevaluated as being a leader
engaging your team.
So you're saying it starts withleadership right, it does.
(11:55):
It really has to be.
Leaders should set the tonewhen they prioritize joy and
engagement.
It creates a ripple effectthroughout the organization.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
So what's?
One simple thing, just onesimple thing leaders can do
tomorrow to start this wholetransformation.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Wow.
Okay, let's try the mostsimplest approach Gratitude.
Take five minutes out andgenerally thank someone on your
team for their contribution.
It sounds so simple, but theimpact can be so profound.
Now I've done things like oncea month writing a thank you note
, and sometimes it was a programthat was required because the
(12:29):
organization was doing itoverall.
But it's so effective that Iwould say don't wait for
somebody else to take the leadon that, and they recommended
doing it daily.
They had another process whereit was done weekly.
I believe it has to be done andit can't be done whenever you
get the urge.
It should be something you doonce a month throughout the
organization and it has meaning.
(12:51):
When people receive somethinglike that, they really do have
the feeling that it meanssomething to the person who
wrote it and then, therefore, itmeans it's a powerful tool for
them to hear that gratitude in awritten word rather than just a
pat on the back.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So I got to tell you, John, that seems doable for any
leader.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, and that's the beauty of it Create some joy at
work.
It doesn't have to becomplicated or expensive.
It's about being consistent,being authentic.
Show people that they matter asa group.
Let's just wrap up and talkabout the most important thing
that the listeners might want tohear from this conversation
(13:33):
that joy is not really a nice tohave.
It is a powerful catalyst forsuccess.
When leaders prioritizecreating an environment where
people can thrive, everyone wins.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
And you're telling me the research backs this up.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, like we've been talking about.
It is clear that there is apositive.
Where people make the effort tocreate higher engagement,
better retention and a strongerbottom line result.
Because they want to be there,they find some joy in the work
environment.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Well, there you have it, folks.
The secret to workplace successmight be something we learned
back in kindergarten.
We called it the importance ofjoy.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah, yeah, but you know, let's talk about a few
examples to help peopleunderstand fun at work in a
little bit more of an appliedapproach.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So we had a shared experience with management
making the job fun.
The line changes every twoweeks.
We go back out for dinnerProduction manager's credit card
, if you remember those days.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Oh, I do.
But looking back, it was anincredible cost saving to feed
us instead of paying us theovertime we deserve.
So true, so true.
I remember the quarterlymeetings where we would
celebrate the report results andthey were always pretty
positive back in the day and wewould do things like scavenger
hunts and team activities interms of bonding and it all
(14:58):
looks like it was hokey.
You know, looking in therearview mirror on what it was,
but I never did that in some ofthe work environments I was in
and we had a ton of fun.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So let's take a quick list, all right.
More ways leaders can encouragefun at work One creative
rituals.
So some teams start out with atwo minute talent share.
They start their day, theirmorning, their meeting, where
someone shows a hobby or skillor quirky fact about themselves
or their environment.
It builds connection and itlightens the mood right, sets
(15:31):
the tone a little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It builds connection and it lightens the mood right.
It sets the tone a little bit,yeah.
And I saw one manager actuallyask did you do something that
was fun on the weekends?
And if nobody spoke they said,okay, we have a boring life.
Do something next weekend, youcan bring the story in.
So have some fun with creatinga ritual.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
You can also have theme days or dress up days,
whether it's Retro Tech Tuesdayor Lab Coat Day.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Dean days or dress-up days, whether it's Retro Tech
Tuesday or Lab Coat Day, playfulthemes can spark laughter and
creativity, especially in theSTEM work environments.
Yeah, Lab Coat Day can be kindof humorous.
If they're in lab coats already, I mean it's got to be unusual
rather than normal.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Right Can't be the research and development folks,
All right.
It can't be the research anddevelopment folks, All right.
Something I've heard about morein the last so many years, the
last five, ten years hackathonsand maker days.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Whoa, whoa, whoa Hackathons.
What is a hackathon?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
So you've heard about cybersecurity and trying to
protect your cyber assets frombeing stolen.
This is a situation where folkscome up with games to try to
create a potential takeover ofthe system and how they thwart
it, how they stop it.
So it's all simulated.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
This is fun, though this is fun.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And if you're in the IT space, especially if you're a
cyber person, you'll love it.
You look forward to beingcreative, but there is value to
going through these exercises.
Awesome.
So 3M's 15% rule.
These events give employeestime to build, tinker or solve
problems outside of their usualscope, so obviously that's great
for cross-pollinating ideas.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, like post-it notes.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yes, yes, so recognition with personality
Instead of generic awards.
Some companies give out theGolden Banana Trophy or Epic
Fail Forward shout outs tocelebrate.
We took a risk and we learnedfrom it.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And it sounds like the Golden Banana might be where
that risk didn't work out.
Yeah, and Epic Fail doesn'tsound like the greatest of
titles to win, but yeah, I thinkyou can have fun with failing
and showing that they went outand participated in a risk and
can only laugh at themselves,but they're showing that they're
(17:43):
trying.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
So, john, we've talked a lot about mentorship.
Imagine turning that aroundreverse mentorship pairing a
junior staff member with asenior leader to teach something
like TikTok trends or new tech,and they can flip the power
dynamics and foster mutualrespect, and it can be a lot of
fun as well.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Joyful spaces and when I thinkabout this, I think about the
(18:07):
open office space concept thatkind of came up around COVID and
that.
So, from the whiteboard wallsto Lego corners, a physical
environment can invite play andexperimentation, and we've heard
people talk about a couch inthe middle of the room,
treadmills that have a computeron top.
What, if wild ideas that canjust spark incredible innovation
(18:28):
.
Part of it is creating thatjoyful space to work in.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, and be careful with this one, because I've seen
the negative happen, wherepeople will make negative
comments because they can't becaught.
They do it at a certain timewhere no one's around, and be
careful how long you keep thisjoyful space working, because it
can also be counterproductive.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Storytelling sessions Invite employees to share
moments when their work made abig difference.
It reconnects people to purposeand it builds actually
emotional resonance.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, you know, when I was doing the research on this
, one of the companies I thoughtwas really interesting was
Maker's Mark yeah, the alcoholproducer, and what they have.
One of their descriptions ofjoy is that it's a KPI, a key
performance indicator, that theywant to see how you have
(19:22):
brought joy into the job.
How would you bring it to theproduction floor?
And they're being graded on it.
What a wonderful idea togenerate fun being graded on it.
What a wonderful idea togenerate fun.
And how wonderful that they canalso say that it's
profit-driven too, as they putit.
They try a purpose-driven work.
The work ensures that everyemployee, from the assembly line
(19:46):
to the design team, understandhow their specific tasks
continue to help the finalproduct and how it actually
affects the value to thecustomer.
During these team huddles, theyshare the positive customer
feedback and stories about howtheir product has improved
someone's life.
This creates a sense of pride,a shared purpose and
(20:08):
transforming the repetitive taskinto a meaningful one.
So, greg, think about it.
You're in a quality controlteam review and you're going to
have fun.
So they're drinking alcohol andtalking about how it improves
the work environment.
I can't think of a better kindof quality control moment myself
.
Maybe you can give me anexample of fun at work.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Actually I've got a kind of a combo here, John.
It was a fundraising event andback in the day we did dunk
tanks.
So the senior leader would getinto the dunk tank in his
swimsuit and people would buy aset of tickets to buy softballs
to throw and dunk them in thetank.
What was fun about it was theywould start to taunt the senior
leader in the morning, becauseit's usually occurred at
(20:53):
lunchtime right, I'm going to belooking for you up there, I've
been practicing A lot of fun.
And then the tauntingafterwards because the senior
leader would say hey, you can'thit the bright side of the bar.
Just incredible kind of fun.
And the second one was a chilicook-off thing.
So you bought tickets to trythe chili.
We had little samples, as hotas you wanted, as unique as you
wanted, and people loved to trythe different chilis but, most
(21:16):
importantly, created fun.
They had fun making the chili,they had fun sharing it with
others, they had fun ratingswhich ones were the best, and of
course the awards were formoney, for charity.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
And you know you talked about it all year long.
You didn't do a chili bake-offevery month or every week.
Well, you talked about it allyear long.
You didn't do a chili bake-offevery month or every week.
It was a one-time event, but ithas that residual that it goes
through the entire year wherepeople can have fun with it.
So we've talked a lot aboutdifferent ideas that you can
have fun with in a workenvironment.
It isn't the purpose of work,but it is a side effect that you
(21:56):
can create in terms of creatinga culture.
This is something that hasstrong science behind it results
, profitability, all thoseelements.
Remember that you're a leaderand this is your opportunity to
try to make an impact In anenvironment where people feel
comfortable, can handle the job,take on risks and feel that
they're being supported.
You'll find out that you'llsucceed and they'll succeed, and
(22:21):
it's that magic that you'realways looking for.
It's really not that hard tofind.
So, if you like what you'veheard, I've written a book
called Building your LeadershipToolbox and we talk about tools
like this, and it's available onAmazon and Barnes Noble and
other sites.
The podcast is what you've beenlistening to.
(22:42):
Thank you so much.
It's also available on Apple,google and Spotify.
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr Durst and his MBR
program.
If you'd like to know moreabout Dr Durst, you can find out
on successgrowthacademycom, andif you'd like to contact us,
(23:04):
please send me a line.
That's wando75.jw at gmailcom,and the music has been brought
to you by my grandson, so wewant to hear from you.
Drop me a line, tell me what'sgoing on, what you like and what
you would like to hear about,and it's always helped us to
create content.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Thanks Greg, this was fun.
Thanks, john, as always, nexttime yeah.
Well, hello and welcome to our podcast Success
Secrets and Stories.
I'm your host, john Wondoloski,and I'm here with my co-host
and friend, greg Powell.
Greg, hey, everybody.
And when we put together thispodcast, we wanted to put out a
helping hand and help that nextgeneration and help answer the
(00:35):
question of what does it mean tobe a leader?
Today, we want to talk about asubject that I think supports
that concept, about a subjectthat I think supports that
concept.
So, to that end, let's startwith a simple concept there are
more ways that you can find orencourage fun at work, and we
(00:55):
want to talk about that today.
We'll explore how leaders caninfuse joy into the workplace.
They can do things like havingsome games in terms of quality
control.
They can look intocross-functional camaraderie
days, personal innovation time.
There's a whole bunch of thingsthat we can talk about and, as
a leader, it is yourresponsibility to create the
(01:16):
culture within the organizationthat you control, not somebody
else.
Enhance the work environment.
You'll improve not only a senseof joy, but you'll find that
your staff and you will havesome fun in the process.
So let's talk about fun.
Right now, more than 50% aredisengaged at work.
(01:38):
It's a staggering number ofpeople who are just going
through the motions.
Today we're exploring howleaders can transform their
workplace through unexpectedsolutions like joy.
We'll uncover the sciencebehind workplace happiness,
(02:00):
practical strategies for leadersand why fun is one of the most
underrated productivity tools inbusiness, according to recent
studies.
When employees report they'rehaving fun at work, they see
companies that are usually 21%higher in profitability.
It's not just about feelinggood, it's about the bottom line
(02:21):
, and that makes a hugedifference.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Fascinating.
Most people think productivityand fun are total opposites.
Right, but research shows theyare deeply connected.
But what exactly do we mean byfun at work?
Are we talking about constantparties?
Not at all, right.
No, it's more about creating anenvironment where people feel
energized and totally engaged.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Right, I mean, there's the point.
It's fascinating thatneuroscience is behind this.
That's the key.
And when we experienceenjoyment, our brains release
dopamines, that feel-goodchemical.
And dopamines doesn't just makeus feel good, it enhances
memory retention and learning.
So when the work is enjoyable,we actually get more out of our
(03:12):
employees and we have a betterkind of quality of work.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
That's incredible, but with all the pressures
leaders face to deliver results,can't forget about that.
How do they justify focusing onfun?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think they're putting it up as a
corporate discussion, butthat's where really the study
really becomes compelling.
They're showing organizationswith high level of employee
engagement to be the mostprofitable.
They have the highestproductivity and experience the
lowest turnover rates.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So it's not about making people happy, it's about
creating sustainable businesssuccess.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, and here's some things that might surprise you.
When researchers ask where didthey get their best ideas, over
80% of them were actually sayingthat during relaxing activities
like taking a shower whichobviously isn't happening at
work or playing with the kids.
Not a single person out of15,000 that they asked got their
(04:12):
best ideas at work.
Now that has to be a hugewake-up call for the traditional
work environments that might bestifling that kind of
creativity.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So what can leaders do to change this?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So you know we like to look at people who are
references.
And PERMA, developed by DrMartin Singelman from the
University of Pennsylvania, andhe created an essential
component of well-being.
I love when these docs do thisbecause it's another acumen, and
you know how much the medicalworld loves acumens, but this
one's actually a pretty good one.
(04:48):
Positive emotions, engagement,relationships, meaning
accomplishments, and that'salmost like common sense.
This should be another phrasethat should be put in there.
When leaders focus on theseelements, they create an
environment where peoplenaturally thrive.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Really we need another acumen at this point.
Yeah, well, okay, I get theperma, but can you give us some
practical, concrete examples?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Sure, I mean, everybody likes to talk about
Google, right, and they're knownfor their innovative approach
in terms of workforce culture.
They're operating with flexiblework arrangements, mental
health resources, regularrecognition programs and it
works.
They are constantly ranked asone of the best places to work.
They have high employeesatisfaction and low turnover
(05:41):
rates, and that's really a keypoint.
But it's not just about theperks.
It's creating an environmentwhere people feel valued and
supported and engaged.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You know, John, not every company can be a Google,
right.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, no, that's true .
No, they're also the oneeverybody likes to reference,
but any company can implementthose core principles.
Take Starbucks, for example.
Yeah, I know they're anotherexample everybody brings up.
But they focus on recognitionand rewards, calling their
employees partners that's a keypoint and they offer benefits
(06:19):
like stock options and tuitionassistance.
And it does make a differencestock options and tuition
assistance and it does make adifference.
They have seen an increase ofemployee loyalty and engagement
and it is a sense of communityand appreciation.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
So, John, what about those smaller companies that
have limited resources?
What can they do?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Right, right.
Well, sometimes the mosteffective strategies don't cost
anything Simple acts ofrecognition like publicly
acknowledging the good work orsending a thank you note and I
have seen thank you notes have ahuge impact.
I've even seen people put thethank you note on the wall.
That's how rare people haveactually talked about how good
(07:01):
someone has done their job.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
So, if I understand you correctly, it's really more
about the approach than aboutthe budget.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
It has to be exactly.
Research shows that feelingvalued and appreciated is one of
the strongest drivers inengagement.
It's about creating a positiveemotion, and that's what we talk
about when they have the acumenof P-E-R-M-A.
Let's talk about the resistanceto these ideas.
(07:29):
What would you say to leaderswho worry about too much fun
will decrease productivity?
Well, actually, the data showsthe exact opposite.
According to Bright HR, 79% ofthe employees believe that fun
at work leads to higherproductivity.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So from my past, I'm familiar with BrightHR.
They're an online humanresources HR software provider
for small and medium-sizedbusinesses.
The company's statement that79% of employees who have fun at
work leads to higherproductivity was based on a
survey conducted in a 2016report that says it pays to play
(08:08):
.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That's a pretty strong argument you know, going
through this research is one ofthose challenges.
Let's go a little bit deeper.
When people experience positiveemotions at work, they are more
likely to collaborateeffectively and come up with
innovative solutions.
Fun actually fuels innovation.
There is solid science behindit.
(08:30):
When we're having fun and we'rein a playful state, our brain
shifts from that stress andoverworked mode to relaxing and
being creative.
When we're stressed, we tend tofocus on survival rather than
innovation.
A lot of the research showspositive emotions enhance brain
functions, boosting creativityand problem solving.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So what's the first step, John, for leaders who want
to create more joy in theworkplace?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Good point.
You are in charge of modelingthe culture that you create
within your work environment.
You, the leader, is also aculture architect.
You have to take a look at thebehaviors and shape those in
terms of norms and values, ofthe organization.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Okay, but not that corporate speak In plain English
.
How do you create the kind ofenvironment you're looking for?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
corporate speak in plain English how do you create
the kind of environment you'relooking for?
If you want people to feel safeby being creative and taking
risks, you need to demonstrateit yourself.
Share in your own failures andyour learnings, create an
innovative thinking.
Even if it doesn't succeed,you're showing that
vulnerability as a leader can bethe most powerful tool in terms
(09:46):
of communication.
It is, as studies have talkedabout, prioritizing
psychological safety andcooperation.
It fosters innovation trustthroughout the organization.
If they feel like you're beinghonest and you're being truthful
, they can see that.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
So, John, we talked in the past about measuring.
How do you measure success?
How can leaders track if thesechanges are really working?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Okay, so you know you've always talked about how
surveys are critical and howsurveys are literally gold in
the world of HR, but there'sthings that HR talks about in
terms of metrics of turnoverrates and sick days and
productivity levels.
All those things are thereal-world measurements and you
(10:37):
often see places that have thatjoy element within their jobs as
these numbers being better thanothers.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So are there any surprising indicators?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, research shows that engaged employees report
lower anxiety and depressionvery key, especially in today's
world of mental health and howit's become important and there
are fewer physical health issueslike chronic pain and fatigue.
So the benefits extend beyondthe workplace.
(11:09):
Absolutely, when people arehappier at work, it's a positive
impact and overall there's asatisfaction.
That's just, you know, insimple terms, psychologically,
well-being is being displayed.
That's powerful.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Any final advice for those leaders?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
The workplace isn't just a luxury that you have as a
leader.
It is a strategic imperative intoday's competitive environment
that you engage employees.
Employees are your greatestasset and that's really the
essence of what you should beevaluated as being a leader
engaging your team.
So you're saying it starts withleadership right, it does.
(11:55):
It really has to be.
Leaders should set the tonewhen they prioritize joy and
engagement.
It creates a ripple effectthroughout the organization.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
So what's?
One simple thing, just onesimple thing leaders can do
tomorrow to start this wholetransformation.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Wow.
Okay, let's try the mostsimplest approach Gratitude.
Take five minutes out andgenerally thank someone on your
team for their contribution.
It sounds so simple, but theimpact can be so profound.
Now I've done things like oncea month writing a thank you note
, and sometimes it was a programthat was required because the
(12:29):
organization was doing itoverall.
But it's so effective that Iwould say don't wait for
somebody else to take the leadon that, and they recommended
doing it daily.
They had another process whereit was done weekly.
I believe it has to be done andit can't be done whenever you
get the urge.
It should be something you doonce a month throughout the
organization and it has meaning.
(12:51):
When people receive somethinglike that, they really do have
the feeling that it meanssomething to the person who
wrote it and then, therefore, itmeans it's a powerful tool for
them to hear that gratitude in awritten word rather than just a
pat on the back.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So I got to tell you, John, that seems doable for any
leader.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, and that's the beauty of it Create some joy at
work.
It doesn't have to becomplicated or expensive.
It's about being consistent,being authentic.
Show people that they matter asa group.
Let's just wrap up and talkabout the most important thing
that the listeners might want tohear from this conversation
(13:33):
that joy is not really a nice tohave.
It is a powerful catalyst forsuccess.
When leaders prioritizecreating an environment where
people can thrive, everyone wins.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
And you're telling me the research backs this up.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, like we've been talking about.
It is clear that there is apositive.
Where people make the effort tocreate higher engagement,
better retention and a strongerbottom line result.
Because they want to be there,they find some joy in the work
environment.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Well, there you have it, folks.
The secret to workplace successmight be something we learned
back in kindergarten.
We called it the importance ofjoy.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah, yeah, but you know, let's talk about a few
examples to help peopleunderstand fun at work in a
little bit more of an appliedapproach.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So we had a shared experience with management
making the job fun.
The line changes every twoweeks.
We go back out for dinnerProduction manager's credit card
, if you remember those days.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Oh, I do.
But looking back, it was anincredible cost saving to feed
us instead of paying us theovertime we deserve.
So true, so true.
I remember the quarterlymeetings where we would
celebrate the report results andthey were always pretty
positive back in the day and wewould do things like scavenger
hunts and team activities interms of bonding and it all
(14:58):
looks like it was hokey.
You know, looking in therearview mirror on what it was,
but I never did that in some ofthe work environments I was in
and we had a ton of fun.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So let's take a quick list, all right.
More ways leaders can encouragefun at work One creative
rituals.
So some teams start out with atwo minute talent share.
They start their day, theirmorning, their meeting, where
someone shows a hobby or skillor quirky fact about themselves
or their environment.
It builds connection and itlightens the mood right, sets
(15:31):
the tone a little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It builds connection and it lightens the mood right.
It sets the tone a little bit,yeah.
And I saw one manager actuallyask did you do something that
was fun on the weekends?
And if nobody spoke they said,okay, we have a boring life.
Do something next weekend, youcan bring the story in.
So have some fun with creatinga ritual.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
You can also have theme days or dress up days,
whether it's Retro Tech Tuesdayor Lab Coat Day.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Dean days or dress-up days, whether it's Retro Tech
Tuesday or Lab Coat Day, playfulthemes can spark laughter and
creativity, especially in theSTEM work environments.
Yeah, Lab Coat Day can be kindof humorous.
If they're in lab coats already, I mean it's got to be unusual
rather than normal.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Right Can't be the research and development folks,
All right.
It can't be the research anddevelopment folks, All right.
Something I've heard about morein the last so many years, the
last five, ten years hackathonsand maker days.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Whoa, whoa, whoa Hackathons.
What is a hackathon?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
So you've heard about cybersecurity and trying to
protect your cyber assets frombeing stolen.
This is a situation where folkscome up with games to try to
create a potential takeover ofthe system and how they thwart
it, how they stop it.
So it's all simulated.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
This is fun, though this is fun.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And if you're in the IT space, especially if you're a
cyber person, you'll love it.
You look forward to beingcreative, but there is value to
going through these exercises.
Awesome.
So 3M's 15% rule.
These events give employeestime to build, tinker or solve
problems outside of their usualscope, so obviously that's great
for cross-pollinating ideas.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, like post-it notes.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yes, yes, so recognition with personality
Instead of generic awards.
Some companies give out theGolden Banana Trophy or Epic
Fail Forward shout outs tocelebrate.
We took a risk and we learnedfrom it.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And it sounds like the Golden Banana might be where
that risk didn't work out.
Yeah, and Epic Fail doesn'tsound like the greatest of
titles to win, but yeah, I thinkyou can have fun with failing
and showing that they went outand participated in a risk and
can only laugh at themselves,but they're showing that they're
(17:43):
trying.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
So, john, we've talked a lot about mentorship.
Imagine turning that aroundreverse mentorship pairing a
junior staff member with asenior leader to teach something
like TikTok trends or new tech,and they can flip the power
dynamics and foster mutualrespect, and it can be a lot of
fun as well.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Joyful spaces and when I thinkabout this, I think about the
(18:07):
open office space concept thatkind of came up around COVID and
that.
So, from the whiteboard wallsto Lego corners, a physical
environment can invite play andexperimentation, and we've heard
people talk about a couch inthe middle of the room,
treadmills that have a computeron top.
What, if wild ideas that canjust spark incredible innovation
(18:28):
.
Part of it is creating thatjoyful space to work in.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, and be careful with this one, because I've seen
the negative happen, wherepeople will make negative
comments because they can't becaught.
They do it at a certain timewhere no one's around, and be
careful how long you keep thisjoyful space working, because it
can also be counterproductive.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Storytelling sessions Invite employees to share
moments when their work made abig difference.
It reconnects people to purposeand it builds actually
emotional resonance.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, you know, when I was doing the research on this
, one of the companies I thoughtwas really interesting was
Maker's Mark yeah, the alcoholproducer, and what they have.
One of their descriptions ofjoy is that it's a KPI, a key
performance indicator, that theywant to see how you have
(19:22):
brought joy into the job.
How would you bring it to theproduction floor?
And they're being graded on it.
What a wonderful idea togenerate fun being graded on it.
What a wonderful idea togenerate fun.
And how wonderful that they canalso say that it's
profit-driven too, as they putit.
They try a purpose-driven work.
The work ensures that everyemployee, from the assembly line
(19:46):
to the design team, understandhow their specific tasks
continue to help the finalproduct and how it actually
affects the value to thecustomer.
During these team huddles, theyshare the positive customer
feedback and stories about howtheir product has improved
someone's life.
This creates a sense of pride,a shared purpose and
(20:08):
transforming the repetitive taskinto a meaningful one.
So, greg, think about it.
You're in a quality controlteam review and you're going to
have fun.
So they're drinking alcohol andtalking about how it improves
the work environment.
I can't think of a better kindof quality control moment myself
.
Maybe you can give me anexample of fun at work.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Actually I've got a kind of a combo here, John.
It was a fundraising event andback in the day we did dunk
tanks.
So the senior leader would getinto the dunk tank in his
swimsuit and people would buy aset of tickets to buy softballs
to throw and dunk them in thetank.
What was fun about it was theywould start to taunt the senior
leader in the morning, becauseit's usually occurred at
(20:53):
lunchtime right, I'm going to belooking for you up there, I've
been practicing A lot of fun.
And then the tauntingafterwards because the senior
leader would say hey, you can'thit the bright side of the bar.
Just incredible kind of fun.
And the second one was a chilicook-off thing.
So you bought tickets to trythe chili.
We had little samples, as hotas you wanted, as unique as you
wanted, and people loved to trythe different chilis but, most
(21:16):
importantly, created fun.
They had fun making the chili,they had fun sharing it with
others, they had fun ratingswhich ones were the best, and of
course the awards were formoney, for charity.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
And you know you talked about it all year long.
You didn't do a chili bake-offevery month or every week.
Well, you talked about it allyear long.
You didn't do a chili bake-offevery month or every week.
It was a one-time event, but ithas that residual that it goes
through the entire year wherepeople can have fun with it.
So we've talked a lot aboutdifferent ideas that you can
have fun with in a workenvironment.
It isn't the purpose of work,but it is a side effect that you
(21:56):
can create in terms of creatinga culture.
This is something that hasstrong science behind it results
, profitability, all thoseelements.
Remember that you're a leaderand this is your opportunity to
try to make an impact In anenvironment where people feel
comfortable, can handle the job,take on risks and feel that
they're being supported.
You'll find out that you'llsucceed and they'll succeed, and
(22:21):
it's that magic that you'realways looking for.
It's really not that hard tofind.
So, if you like what you'veheard, I've written a book
called Building your LeadershipToolbox and we talk about tools
like this, and it's available onAmazon and Barnes Noble and
other sites.
The podcast is what you've beenlistening to.
(22:42):
Thank you so much.
It's also available on Apple,google and Spotify.
A lot of what we talk about isfrom Dr Durst and his MBR
program.
If you'd like to know moreabout Dr Durst, you can find out
on successgrowthacademycom, andif you'd like to contact us,
(23:04):
please send me a line.
That's wando75.jw at gmailcom,and the music has been brought
to you by my grandson, so wewant to hear from you.
Drop me a line, tell me what'sgoing on, what you like and what
you would like to hear about,and it's always helped us to
create content.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Thanks Greg, this was fun.
Thanks, john, as always, nexttime yeah.
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