Dr. Rob Bell fell off an 80-foot cliff and it changed his life...
Dr. Rob Bell is a sport psychology coach, author, and speaker. He has spoken to the NSCA, PGA, NFL, Marriott, and Walgreens and has written seven books on Mental Toughness.
Rob has worked with three different winners on the PGA Tour. In addition, he has served as the mental coach for the University of Notre Dame, Indy Eleven, an Indy 500 champion, Olympian medalists, and more.
He’s an ironman, completed several ultra-marathons and a 100-mile trail run.
And has been featured on ESPN, The Golf Channel, Runner’s World, NY Times, and Stack Magazine.
In this episode, Dr. Rob Bell
1. Defines mental toughness - (it's not what you think)
2. Explains how to train mental toughness to perform at elite levels
3. How to come back stronger after a setback
4. How to parent resilient, successful kids.
Check out his website at
drrobbell.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rob Bell (00:00):
One night we were partying near this cliff, and I
(00:03):
ended up walking off a 80 footcliff.
You know, I didn't jump, Iwasn't pushed, I just had no
idea where I was, you have tocrane me up out of it and take
me to the hospital.
But I was alive man, and I wasstill in a lot of pain, but I
could move.
I mean that moment right there,that was a hinge moment.
Michael Bauman (00:24):
How do we truly feel like a success in every
area of our lives?
How do we feel enough and knowthat we are not alone?
Join me as I interview some ofthe top leaders and experts in
the world, from Broadwaydirectors to multimillionaire,
CEOs, neuroscientists, and moreto look behind the curtain of
success and examine not only theachievements, but also the
(00:46):
fears.
The.
The loneliness and how we cannavigate through that to create
the incredible life we actuallywant to live.
Welcome to Success Engineering.
So welcome back to SuccessEngineering.
I'm your host, Michael Baumanit's my pleasure to have Dr.
Rob Bell on.
(01:07):
He's a sports psychology coach.
He's an author.
He's a speaker, so he's spokenthe NSCA, PGA, NFL, Marriott,
Walgreens.
He's written seven books onmental toughness.
Writing.
Another one right now.
We'll get into that.
So his seventh book is calledPuke and Rally.
It's not about the setback, it'sabout the comeback.
And he's worked with threedifferent winners of the P G A
(01:28):
tour.
He's served as a mental coachfor University of Notre Dame,
Indy 11, you know, Indy 500champions, Olympic medalists.
He's done tons of things and hewalks the walk or runs the runs,
so to speak.
He's done Ironmans Ultras, ahundred Mile Trail runs, and
then he is the host of thepodcast called 15 Minutes of
Mental Toughness.
(01:48):
So he interviews experts allover the board on mental health,
mental toughness, things likethat, featured on E S P N, golf
Channel Runners World.
I could just go on and on, butit's a pleasure to have you here
on this show.
I'm looking forward to thisconversation.
Rob Bell (02:02):
Absolutely, man.
Thanks so much for the intro,man.
I appreciate
Michael Bauman (02:04):
Yeah, there you go.
Thanks for doing what you do.
So, so we're
Rob Bell (02:09):
Well, I mean, there, there's sometimes like you get
on a podcast and they're like,tell us about yourself.
I really don't know what to
Michael Bauman (02:14):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Rob Bell (02:15):
it's a lot better.
It's not better having you doit.
Michael Bauman (02:17):
I packaged it up.
Put a little bow on it.
We sorted it out.
All right.
Now we'll get to the meat andpotatoes.
So I literally wanna dive in andit's more so like fall in.
We want to start with thatmoment for you.
So we're gonna, we're gonnastart with the falling off of an
80 foot cliff.
And you can kind of give thebackstory around that and how
that ended up getting in youinto sports psychology.
Rob Bell (02:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, sports was my entirelife.
Baseball, soccer is really whatI.
Love the most, you know, buteven baseball and you know, I
went to a division two school inWest Virginia with the hopes of
playing.
You know, when I get there, likemy 85 mile hour fast ball was
just kind of like average.
And it was really interestingbecause probably about like my
(03:01):
junior, senior year, highschool, I started to get off the
tracks.
I mean, I started drinking alot, just started partying and
having a good time.
It was really just when I gotto.
Now I can have partying and noaccountability and like, what
could possibly go wrong.
And I was always one of thosepeople, man, that was, you know,
if there was trouble, like I wasgonna find it.
(03:22):
And so it was one night we werepartying near this cliff, and
near this cliff was kind of likethis bridge.
And you know, I don't know whywe're parting there, but I mean,
you know, I always tell.
Depending on my audience,nothing good happens after
midnight, so this was obviouslyafter midnight and just had no
idea where I was.
I ended up walking off a 80 footcliff.
(03:43):
You know, I didn't jump, Iwasn't pushed, I just had no
idea where I was, and I'm layingI'm conscious during the whole
time I'm laying at like to thebottom of this crevasse.
You have to crane me up out ofit and take me to the hospital
where my mom is a nurse.
And, you know, I mean, Ifractured my back, broke my arm.
Big gaping head wound, you know,but I was alive man, and I was
still, you know, in a lot ofpain, but I could move.
(04:05):
And I mean that moment rightthere, that was a hinge moment
because baseball then was overand that was it.
And that was that was reallytroublesome to me cuz it, you
know, in my mind, like my 85 menfast ball is gonna get me to
major leagues.
I just had, you know, theemotional pain stuck around a
lot longer than any one of thosebroken bones.
(04:26):
And I still have a lot of like,feeling loss like in my lower
back.
But the emotional scars frommessing up like that, you know,
cuz then you have to face peoplein terms of like, you know, what
were you doing?
You know, I was so glad you'realive, but like, I could be so
dumb, you know?
And if, you know, if it wasn'tfor that, I probably wouldn't
have taken that psychology classand that psychology class is
(04:49):
what made all the difference inmy life.
Cause I knew then at that point,taking that class I can merge
sports and psychology.
I had no idea how I was gonna doit, but I was like, I want,
that's what I want to do.
Cuz I was so entranced ineverything about the mind and it
was around that time as wellthat.
You know, the Dan and Davecommercials for the Olympics
(05:10):
were going on and you can justkind of YouTube'em and anybody
watching.
And I started following DanO'Brien and you know, Dan and
Dave, two Olympians who wasgonna compete for the gold medal
for the us.
And it was at this time Istarted, you know, it makes you
root for one.
It was a Reebok commercials andit made you root for one.
So I started rooting for DanO'Brien.
Well, Dan O'Brien gets toOlympic trials and he's on world
(05:32):
record pace, so he is not evenat the Olympics.
But he is on world record paceand he comes up again up on the
pole vault and he misses threetimes.
So he no heights.
So he goes from first to last,doesn't even make the team.
And I cut out that article fromthe Washington Post and followed
him looking at it right now.
(05:52):
And I actually ran into himprobably about 10 years ago and
showed it to him.
He got a big kick out of it cuzI, we, I said, look, this was a
hinge moment for both of us,like, your failure at Olympic
trials is why I got into thisfield, because I was just blown
away that, what do you mean thebest in the world?
Don't make it like that was justforeign to me.
(06:13):
I'm like, I'm watching this guyon all these commercials,
obviously gonna make, you know,the Olympics.
He doesn't make it.
And then I started following hiscareer and then he started to
see somebody who would help himout with his routines.
You know, breathing, stayingfocused, the confidence, letting
go of.
And it was that point, I waslike, this is what I want to do.
And it all gets back to, youknow, falling off a cliff, man.
(06:36):
So,
Michael Bauman (06:37):
That'll do it for you.
Change.
Change your life.
But don't try this at home.
Right?
Rob Bell (06:43):
yeah.
Michael Bauman (06:44):
other ways to change your life.
Rob Bell (06:46):
Yeah, you know, the one thing Michael that I'll
share, man, it's like, I wasreally given a gift of
perspective and that was thepart that I really held onto,
you know, because when you aremet face-to-face, kind of with
your own mortality however wethink about Lance Armstrong, he
still had an epic quote.
He said, if you ever get asecond chance in life, you have
to go all the way.
And then when I got a secondchance, you know, getting into
(07:07):
grad school, like I wasn't gonnablow it.
And so I felt like the gratitudeperspective that I got from that
was actually a gift.
Michael Bauman (07:14):
Absolutely.
And that's a, you know,phenomenal, you know, reframe
around that situation.
And before we get into, youknow, all the stuff on mental
toughness, I do want to talkabout that loss of I identity.
And this is a huge theme forathletes, whether they're, You
know, finish at high school,finishing college, finish
professional sports, like whenthey have so much of their
(07:34):
identity tied around playing asport.
And also like executives aswell, like, you know, they have
their worth tied up in their joband, you know, whatever it is,
and they lose that.
How do you go about basicallyseparating your identity from.
What you do in sports in life,and I know this is basically the
foundation, the pillar on whatyou build everything else on.
(07:57):
But I, I'd love to hear yourthoughts on that.
Rob Bell (07:59):
well, I think.
I have a fairly good answer forit.
You know, how I dealt with itback then was not well, you
know, I mean I, because you havethe emotional scarring and, the
identity piece.
I mean, I delved into drinkingand partying.
It just even more so, you know,cuz I needed to cover up that
pain, you know, if I couldn'tplay ball in the field, have to
play ball off the field andwhatever that meant.
(08:22):
I think that's what, you know,drugs and alcohol help a lot of
people through that.
It's not the best.
But it gets'em through it, youknow?
And obviously that's the wrongway to self-medicate, but but
that's why so many people do itbecause of that emotional
damage.
It's interesting you bring thatup because I've made it a point
to talk to a couple of people,entrepreneurs that sold their
businesses and they both sold'emfor millions of dollars.
(08:45):
And ask them the question, areyou happier?
That you don't have theresponsibility, the pressure, or
were you happier like during thegrind when you were getting
after it.
And again, small sample size,right?
But both of them said they werehappier when they had the
business, when they were stillgrinding because that identity
(09:05):
piece, when they sold, thebusiness, stopped.
And they had to, and this iswhere I'll get like into the
answer in the question.
They had to find another outletand the part that I think is
important is it's about steppinginto the next, stepping into the
next part of your life.
Sounds easy, but it constantlyhave to keep reinventing
(09:28):
yourself trying new thingsbecause what you're doing, at
some point it's going to end andwhat's stepping into the next
look like for you on the nextchapter?
And if we stay stuck, if wenever keep reinventing
ourselves, finding new avenues,you know, if it's gonna be new
clients new tools, new skills.
(09:48):
If we're not constantly gettingbetter, then stepping in the
next gets a whole lot harder cuzwe're still gonna be holding on
to that identity.
And I think we need to do itlike when we're healthy and, you
know, well adjusted right now.
You don't wanna wait until yourcareer's done.
Like with professional athletes,right?
E even those that.
Contemplating what retirementwas gonna look like, did a whole
(10:10):
lot better.
You know, research showed thanthose that waited until their
career was over in order to makethat shift.
And I think, like I always, BobDylan was one of my favorite
artists, right?
Love Bob Dylan.
And Bob Dylan.
If you follow him, like all hismusic was different, you know, I
(10:32):
mean, this was a guy who was afolk singer.
And then he started playingelectric guitar and his fans
booed him.
You know, I mean, you know, BobDylan fans were booing them
because they didn't want himgoing electric.
Like, what was that?
Michael Bauman (10:45):
Right.
Rob Bell (10:46):
And he constantly kept reinventing himself.
And that's why, you know, he'sstill around even today.
Because that's the point aboutconstantly reinventing yourself.
And I mean, you look at anybody,any great artist that you can
see their work, they're alwaysgetting better because they're
reinventing themselves.
That's the way I kind of look atit.
Being able to step in the next,have to keep reinventing
ourselves, helps us with thattransition.
Michael Bauman (11:08):
Yeah, and that's really important.
I had mark Verstegen, the NFLperformance director and founder
of EXOS on the podcast, and hetalked about that, how 30% of
athletes, you know, professionalathletes from the N F L when
they retire, they struggle with.
Three main things.
One is like financial ruin,which is crazy.
The other one is justrelational, like distress, you
(11:30):
know, whatever that is.
Like, you know, domestic abuseor just like relational
conflict, divorce, that kind ofthing.
Or struggling with addictionand, because a lot of it is,
That just loss of everythingthat, you know, that they're
self worth and stuff was builtaround.
So I appreciate you talkingabout that.
And it's that, you know,planning in advance for these
(11:50):
kind of things.
And that's what, you know,essentially mental toughness is,
it's how can you plan it inadvance so that you can be tough
to handle these situations.
So let's get into that a littlebit and talk to us.
You know, what is mentaltoughness?
What isn't mental toughness?
So kind of the myths around it.
And then talk about those maincomponents of it, and then we'll
(12:11):
get into the nitty gritty oflike how we can actually, you
know, build each of those in ourlives.
Rob Bell (12:17):
Well, I always like, let's start with what it isn't.
That's okay.
I mean, mental toughness.
I think when we say it gets abad edge because people say
mental toughness.
They think a couple things.
One, Flipping huge tires, likeit's all physical exertion, you
know, it's all physicaltoughness.
And the other myth ormisconception of mental
(12:39):
toughness is it's doing it onyour own, right?
Pulling up your bootstraps, justgetting it done.
And I really look at that askind of like the opposite of
mental toughest.
I think a lot of times it's whoare you surrounding yourself
with?
So when you are gonna needpicked up, who is it that's
there to.
And I think a lot of times, manit's just being able to create
(12:59):
that network of people that arearound you that you know, you
help them out, but they're gonnahelp you out when you're gonna
need it as well.
And that's the part I look at isno one gets there alone.
And that's a huge part I thinkof the mental game as well.
So I always try putting thoseout there in terms of like,
look, mental toughness isn'tnow, are there physical pieces
that go to it?
Sure.
But that's just one component oflike mental toughness.
(13:22):
Jim Lair defined it, and Ialways still use his, because
there's a lot of academics thatwill throw out a lot of
definitions, mental toughness.
But his definition was how youdeal, handle and cope with
adversity.
And that's pretty much what itis.
So adversity has to be presentin order for mental toughness to
come out.
So adversity reveals one's levelof mental toughness, but
(13:47):
adversity also build.
Mental toughness, depending onthe situation, if there's a
coach there, you know, it justdoesn't build it by itself.
Like sports doesn't teach usanything by itself.
It teaches whatever we want toteach.
And that's kind of the samething with like mental
toughness.
So it's really, it's how wedeal, handle and cope with the
adversity, the setbacks, and thestruggle in life.
(14:08):
And that's basically all it is.
All the other skills go into howwe navigate.
And a lot of times in it, it's,I'm putting this in the next
book cuz it's just how weadjust, you know, how well you
adjust, how well do you adapt,how well can you move on?
And kind of we're talking aboutright, stepping to the next.
Michael Bauman (14:27):
Yeah.
I had another guest that I hadon Craig Weller.
He trains Elite Special Forces.
He was a sp a special forceoperator and now he trains him
to blast this election test.
But what I thought wasinteresting is he talks about
how he uses the exact sameframeworks as far as, you know,
stress response, like fearinoculation, all of those kind
(14:48):
of things, segmentation com,compartmentalization, whatever
they use to get through theseincredibly challenging things
physically.
He has a newborn baby and hetalks about how he used that
same thing.
In terms of his response to hiswife when he's tired, when he's
at the end of the rope.
And I think that's an overlookedaspect like you're talking
about.
So I really appreciate youtalking about that aspect of it.
(15:11):
It's going like, how do yourespond in any level of
adversity, not just a physicalone, but like when you're tired
and your kids you know, arekeeping you up at night and you
know you're at the end of therope, do you still respond
positively from that?
Rob Bell (15:24):
No, I don't.
No.
Michael Bauman (15:26):
No I'm the same, right?
Like literally last night my sonwoke me up three times in the
middle of the night and I'mlike, this is crazy.
Right?
And so that's anotherinteresting thing to look at.
At what point.
Along that spectrum.
Do I lose it?
Do I not show up how I want toshow up?
Right.
And that's where you go, oh, ifwe're thinking of it from a
(15:47):
tough knit perspective orexercise perspective, you go, I
can't lift that weight yet, butI can train to get there.
You know, so, so
Rob Bell (15:56):
there, there's, and there's always triggers, right?
Like one for me is like when Ido, when I get tired,
Michael Bauman (16:01):
yes.
Rob Bell (16:01):
and when it's late at night, like again, I've been up,
you know, since 4 35 in themorning and I try communicating
that like with my wife and kids,like, when it's time for bed,
I'm gonna be out.
Can't help me with any newinformation because you're not
gonna like the response.
So they have gotten so muchbetter at that, you know, cuz
we, we've programmed a housethat way.
(16:22):
But I think the triggers arelike, when we're hungry, angry,
lonely, or tired, you know,those.
Triggers, at least for me, oneof those are going on.
If I'm not showing up, like yousaid, the way that I want to,
Michael Bauman (16:33):
Talk to us.
I mean, it's a perfect segue.
Talk to us about how you developthe internal awareness of
basically like what is actuallygoing on with yourself, whether
that's emotions, whether that'sphysiology.
How do you go about trainingthat as a skill?
Rob Bell (16:48):
so here's the tough part, right, is because the mind
has one job, and I'm not sayinganything you don't already know,
but it's just to keep you safe.
And that's who we're alwayscompeting against, is that own
mind.
So the mind, for instance, atfive o'clock in the morning that
says, get up, your mind's gonnabe like, boy, it's really
comfortable in this bed.
Why don't we just stay in bed?
(17:09):
So that's who you're competingagainst.
So try playing a one-on-onebasketball with somebody who
already knows what you're gonnado before you do it.
Like it's tough to beat thatopponent, but that's who you're
competing.
Hence the part what, why it getsso difficult is because it's
just about being aware of like,what are gonna be the triggers,
(17:30):
you know, and what are thetriggers and what are the
emotions that are gonna comeinto it?
Because that's the part whereit's mostly just gets emotion
based.
When emotions start, you know,creating commotion in the mind.
That's gonna be like the hugetrigger.
And the tough part is it's onlywhen that hits.
Are we able to, you know, workon the response?
(17:51):
Then you gotta be able to lookat it and say, all right, did I
respond well in that situation?
What can I do different nexttime?
And then that's how I look atlike the mental muscle getting
built that way.
Michael Bauman (18:02):
Yeah, talk to us cuz these are, you know, pretty
foundational pillars of what youdo.
So talk to us about that.
Talk to us about the ability tofocus.
And the ability to refocus.
And this is what distinguisheslike high performers in any
area, like their ability tofocus and then if they get off
track, their ability to refocusfocus.
So talk to us about that andagain, talk to us about how we
(18:26):
can go about when we do havethose adversities, making sure
we are using that to trainthose.
Rob Bell (18:31):
And that's the key, right, is so it's like, What's
gonna be the adversity thatwe're gonna face?
Because even talking with you,if I look at, all right, well,
is Rob mentally tough?
Right?
Well, in some areas, yes.
In some areas, no.
So what area am I mentally toughat?
What?
And I would look at it.
(18:52):
Look, the main skill that I haveis the perseverance, right?
The never give up.
That's basically.
I mean, be honest, right?
That's basically it, man.
So now that goes a long way.
But if you look at like theraces, like Iron Mans and, you
know, a hundred miles, well,it's really based on obviously
your preparation, but not givingup.
(19:13):
Look, if you don't give up, areyou gonna finish the race?
And you know, those are reallylike, and that's a huge part of
it, but then it goes into kindof what you're talking about,
right?
Like the focus.
When does Rob become likeself-conscious in terms of, you
know, monitoring myself, youknow, it's not gonna be when I'm
speaking, but it's gonna be in asituation where, hey, maybe I'm
(19:36):
not that comfortable in.
Right.
Maybe if it's like working witha new team or something like
that.
So the focus piece is, I thinkwe have to be just a little bit
more excited than nervous.
And it's being able to train ourmind, I think in every kind of
situation that this is somethinggood can happen here.
(19:56):
If we look for the opportunity,our mind wants to say something
bad could happen here.
This is a threat.
And now we're more nervous thanwe are excited.
So all we need to be is just alittle bit more excited than
nervous.
Like it's the same thing, likeall you need to be is just a
little bit more brave thanscared.
That's it.
Just a little.
And then you're gonna be takingthe steps.
(20:18):
And that's the way I kind oflook at focus and be able to
train that muscle.
It's a lot of different ways todo it, but I always think that's
key, man, is to be able to makesure you're approaching the
situation's excited.
Hey, this is an opportunity,something good could happen.
And that's why I have thefeelings that I have.
And then the other part, I mean,refocus.
You know, how do you let go ofmistakes?
Move on.
(20:39):
See, that's the skill that Robis not good at, you know?
Why?
Well, because, you know, even asa kid, I mean, there was a
perfectionism that came intomind and it wasn't okay to make
mistakes, you know?
And and so that part, I do getbetter at it, but I'm not, like,
it's not a strength of mine.
You know what I mean?
I really have to be aware ofwhen.
(21:00):
And that's why I wrote puke andrallies so much, man, was
because I really believe, look,it's not about the setback, it's
gonna be about the comeback.
How do we respond?
In those situations.
So we're cool, calm, andcollected.
Because I look at anybody, man,anybody can take the the helm
and the seas are calm, right?
But it's the stormy seas.
That's what really makes thegood sailors and refocus being
(21:26):
able to move on, let go ofmistakes.
None of us get taught that.
At least I didn't, you know?
And that's where I'll see with alot of athletes today,
entrepreneurs, the fact that wemake mistakes.
You know, we hide from thatstuff.
And whether or not we hidepeople talk about being
vulnerable.
Well that's the part about, youhave to have that group of
people around you that you canbe vulnerable with.
(21:48):
Cuz you don't, I mean, you don'tneed to be posting that on all
social media, how you failed.
Now there's gonna be a lot of,you know, sympathy and failure
notes from that stuff, but, youknow, that's just a whole
nother.
And I, I just look at it aslike, the focus in terms of
being a little bit more excited,the nervous and the refocus part
(22:09):
of how do we let it go, move on.
What they never, ever told me,maybe they told you, but the
whole quote about, you fall downseven, you get up eight, like
that Epic saying, right?
Like, that was really nice.
What they never told you ornever told, Was that when you
fall down for the fourth andfifth time, you think about the
(22:34):
second and third time that youfell down and how bad that hurts
because it brings back all theflood of emotions of when you
failed before.
And that's the part that theyfailed to tell us about, that
when you failed, it's gonnabring back all the past failures
that you had that are no longertrue or real, but it affects
then our identity and once itstarts to affect your identity.
(22:55):
You can't let you know.
Wins go to your head, but youcan't let losses go to your
heart.
That's the whole point, is yougotta protect that identity and
know who you are outside of andback to our original point,
right outside of yourperformance and what it is that
you do.
Michael Bauman (23:09):
Yeah, so many good points there.
Again, very similar to CraigWeller.
He talked about the exact samething, just reframing
nervousness as excitement.
Like physiologically, yourbody's doing the same thing.
Your heart rate increases, youknow, your blood pressure
increases.
You know, all your blood'spumped your muscles.
Whether you're excited or you'renervous, it's the same, you
(23:31):
know, str fear or stressresponse, but you get to frame
it and he talks about thatframing even in terms of, is
stress debilitating for you?
Like a debilitating stressmindset or a challenging stress
mindset?
Does stress your response tothat produce the response you
need to meet the challenge?
So I love what you were saying.
(23:52):
About that goes directly along,along with what he was saying as
well.
So I'm curious, you know, foryou, like, you do the sports
stuff, you coach executives andthings like that.
I'm curious, like if somebody,like an executive comes to you
and says, I want to develop mymental toughness, where do you
start with that?
(24:12):
Like, do you have a specificassessment process?
Is there a framework?
What does that look like?
Rob Bell (24:16):
Well, a lot of it's my interviewing because if it's
gonna be a coach athleterelationship, the relationship
piece is what's important.
And I'm not for everybody.
You know, I'm really not becausethe athletes that I work with, I
call everybody an athlete,right?
It's just our office isdifferent.
It's a corporate athlete that Iwork with.
Like there has to be you know,this willing to be able to push
(24:36):
yourself.
And if we're not gonna bewilling to do any physical
stuff, then I'm not the rightguy for you.
You know?
I'm just not.
And there's other people thatare out there that maybe their
approach is better.
So the interviewing piece isimportant.
I'm always starting I'm, I tryworking backwards and looking at
what does success look like?
Like most of the people I workwith, like they have success.
(24:59):
So what is it that's lacking?
You know, sometimes it's thatpeace of mind.
Sometimes it's just all toocomplicated.
It's not simple.
Sometimes they feel this justimmense pressure that what we're
talking about, right?
They can't, or they can nolonger.
Reveal or show up as them trueselves because there's just too
(25:20):
much on the line now.
And always look at, you know,mental toughness.
The older we get and the betterwe get.
It's more about what takes placeoff the field than what takes
place on the field.
On the field.
Sometimes, man, that's the easything for'em, right?
Like being in the deal or in themix.
It's just what takes placeoutside of it that becomes more
(25:41):
and more difficult.
And so really it's just aboutworking backwards, man.
What does success look like?
How are we gonna know when wereach it?
Michael Bauman (25:48):
Yes.
That's everything that I talkabout.
Super important.
Let's, I mean, let's use thatand I, I want to flip it over to
you and ask like, what doessuccess look like for you?
Personally, and how do youcreate that in.
Rob Bell (26:02):
Yeah, that's a great question, ma'am.
So I always think a lot aboutthat and.
You know, like, like anybody,man, I mean, there's material
things, you know, I likeexperiences and stuff like that,
but it really comes to success.
When I was growing up, JoeSmith, I was a Maryland
Terrapins fan, basketball fan.
So Joe Smith played for Marylandbasketball.
It was first round draft pick,and they went and they played at
(26:26):
Duke.
One of the games now growing up,hated Duke, right?
Couldn't stand Duke.
Joe Smith went down to CameronIndoor Stadium and had one of
these games that was iconic.
I mean, just took over the gameand won, you know, beat Duke at
Duke.
And it was basically him.
And I remember watching, and theCameron crazies did something
they actually clapped andapplauded for him.
(26:49):
And I was like, whoa.
Like that's the strangest thingI've ever seen.
You know what I mean?
And it really got me thinking,well, what does success look?
And this is why I think successis for me, it's being able to
root for everybody.
Because when I can root foreverybody, everybody to have
success, then the only way thatI can do that is come from
mentality in a stance of youknow, abundance, an abundance
(27:12):
mentality that this is not azero sum game.
That there's a slice of pie foreverybody.
And when I can root for otherpeople, like even opponent,
That's where I look at, man,that's the best competition
because that's gonna even makeyou better.
But that's the part of whenpeople have success, I need to
(27:32):
be able to look at it and say,man what is it that they're
doing?
Right?
What is it that they do?
I'm not looking at their why,but I'm looking at their, how.
We gotta look at our own why andexamine other people's how.
You know, and sometimes likewhen I'm not feeling confident,
not feeling good or haven't hadsuccess, like that gets really
difficult, right?
Because I don't wanna startrooting for other people.
(27:53):
Like I just need to focus moreon what I'm doing when it's
really, it's the opposite.
And when I am at my best, I'mrooting for everybody.
And that's what I look at.
What is true success.
Michael Bauman (28:05):
Wow.
Yeah I love that is.
That is powerful and it's veryeasy to tell whether you're in
alignment with that or out ofalignment with that.
And it's, you know, easy to kindof use that as a reset.
So, yeah, I really appreciatethat.
Rob Bell (28:20):
Now people are gonna say, well, does that mean you
root for Duke basketball?
Like, no,
Michael Bauman (28:24):
I don't go that far
Rob Bell (28:25):
Yeah, I'm not talking about that
Michael Bauman (28:26):
roof for everybody except for Duke.
That's what to define assuccess.
So I like, I know, you know,you're a parent.
I'm a parent.
I also like asking and you havea book about parenting as well.
But I am curious too, like whatwould you say is success as a
parent?
Rob Bell (28:43):
And that's a great one, man.
You know, I really like it whenparents, other parents or other
teachers will comment to us,how.
You know how good our kids are.
You know, I think that, I meanthat, that's wonderful
compliment, you know?
And that really feels good.
And it feels better because it'slike, you know, we only get
(29:04):
these sort of things like, cuzyesterday my kids were your age,
you know what I mean?
And that was yesterday.
And so the fact of the clockgrows legs when they get older.
Like it's being able to, beingable then to look at that and,
okay, well what does success,what is it that I want for them?
And the answer, it's prettyelementary, but I want, when
(29:26):
they have a flat tire, I don'twant to be the first call that,
that I get.
I want them to be able to handlethat situation and then to call
me later and then let me know.
Now, of course I'll be there forit, but I've mentioned that
because our job as parents is tobuild capacity, not dependency.
(29:49):
Like I don't want'em dependenton us.
I don't want'em dependent on me.
If they become dependent on me,I'm gonna let'em down at some
point, right?
Because then that's required meto always be available when, no,
my job is to teach you how youcan be able to handle these
adversity on your own.
You know, and that's, man, Iknow it's a bit elementary, but
(30:10):
that's what I kind of looked at.
Like when they face difficultsituation, I don't want to have
to be the first caller to make.
Michael Bauman (30:16):
Yeah.
How do you go about.
Creating or kind of holding thespace for them to develop their
own mental toughness in a waythat obviously they know that
you still are 100% behind them,100%.
Support them, 100% love them.
What does that look like foryou?
Rob Bell (30:33):
Yeah, and I think that's the part, I mean, I look
athletes in general wanna becoached hard.
They do, but.
They also want to be loved, youknow?
So I think if you come from thestandpoint of knowing that you
care about'em, they want to becoached hard because you have
that base that's there.
So that's what's key, is tell mykids, you know, how much I love
(30:54):
them, you know, and we talkabout it all the time and how
much I love them, because youdon't know when that last day is
gonna be, unfortunately.
And once we come from thatstandpoint, then, you know, then
we can coach'em hard.
You know, they've always.
I look at work as, man, it's apillar to life.
It's a pillar to skills.
(31:15):
It's a pillar.
I just think like there's, andthat's probably like the ultra
runner in me, right?
It's like, Rob, do you want tocome like chop wood, you know,
this afternoon and then like,watch a game?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do.
I mean, that sounds like fun tome cuz I like working, you know,
and I do, I just love work andso teaching them even that
appreciation I think is a bigpart.
(31:36):
And then the other part is, it'sfunny because my daughter and I
were born in the same day, soshe has the same hurts, hangups,
and headaches that I do.
So I can actually see like whenthey're coming and I'll always
look at, look, the best coachingthat we do is always in the
debrief.
It's always gonna be after thesituation.
All right.
What did we learn from that kindof situation there?
(31:57):
What do we do different?
You know, my daughter was in atennis match last year where,
you know, she was gettinghooked, man.
She was getting cheat.
Nothing I can do as a parent,but she went up and had that
conversation with that playerand basically said, you know,
what game are we playing here?
And boy, I was so proud of that,you know, and it had nothing to
(32:17):
do with the outcome and thematch, but it was like that's
what you want.
Somebody that has their voice,you know, that has agency that
knows that they're empowered andthat they can do whatever they
want.
I've always told my daughter,I'm not raising a princess.
I'm raising a president.
Because a princess man stuff isbequeath to you as a president,
you have to earn it, you know,and it's said there's, nobody's
(32:38):
gonna be giving you anything.
And if you have that mentality,then you're just gonna be
somebody that's just trying towork the system.
And so I think like those arealways a couple of them.
And then it's just giving themthat space, giving'em that
freedom, giving'em thatresponsibility that, that goes
along with it.
And no matter what I mean, stillloving'em when they make
mistakes and when they mess up.
You know, just being able guidehim through that path I think is
(33:01):
important.
Michael Bauman (33:02):
Yeah, a lot of really good things in that as
far as, you know, like you said,like you mentioned, to build
capacity rather than dependency.
The other thing, and this isagain, another pillar in this
mental toughness piece, is thataspect of confidence.
So I'm curious both for yourkids, how you do that, but then
also just in general with the,you know, corporate athletes,
(33:24):
the athletes that you work with.
How do we go.
Training confidence that you canshow up how you've prepared to
show up when you need to.
Rob Bell (33:33):
Yeah I ultimately think it just gets back to your
identity.
You have to know what youridentity is, and once you know
your identity and what thatfoundation is, then you are not
going to live and die off ofevery performance and every
failure and setback.
You know, what your identity isrooted in.
Ultimately.
I think that's where confidencecomes from.
(33:55):
Because I've looked at peoplethat have struggled the most,
and it's when that confidence isnot there anymore.
Well, why is that?
Because they were alwaysdependent on success to tell'em
like who they were.
And the problem with that is,and this is sort of the good
part, is when you have success,you get a lot of pets in the
(34:16):
back, you get a lot of attaboys,you get a lot of recognition for
it, and then that is what thencan feed your soul.
But if that's what's.
Ultimately it's gonna leave youempty and it just cannot sustain
it.
So I look at confidence asknowing what your identity is,
and then from that, I mean, lookman, there's so many different
(34:37):
you just gotta know, I thinkwhat your strength is.
You know, like my son, he'stremendous at letting go of
mistakes.
I don't know how he does it,man.
I really don't like you.
Are you my.
Michael Bauman (34:49):
Yeah.
Rob Bell (34:51):
Because, yeah, he'll get upset, but it's like, you
know, an hour later, like it'sgone.
Like it's totally gone, dude.
I'm raking myself over the coalsfor that.
So he has to then lead withthat, and that's how he is gonna
get confidence, you know,knowing that, look, the
mistakes, it's a bruise.
It's not a tattoo.
(35:11):
He's, once you lead from likeyour strengths my strength of
like never giving up.
Okay.
If I lead with that, then I'mgonna have confidence in.
If I'm leading from, you know,my ability to focus under
pressure then we get confidencein that.
So I think it's definitely aboutknowing what your strength is
and constantly refining that andworking from that.
And that's how I think that weget real confidence.
(35:32):
The other part, I mean, it'sabout putting yourself in so
many different types ofsituations as well.
I've been blessed, man, lived ina lot of different states that
and just have been around.
Have you know, the experienceand I think that confidence
definitely comes fromexperience, but just being able
to put yourself in, I think, somany different arenas and that's
(35:53):
how we're learning aboutourselves and that's ultimately
how we get confidence from it.
Michael Bauman (35:57):
Yeah I like that perspective too, cuz a lot of
times people think and you know,not to minimize planning for
different situations and, youknow, seeing what could go wrong
and having plans for that.
But I think.
You know, like what you'retalking about, there's maybe not
enough said or not enoughemphasis put on actually
understanding that it doesn'tmatter the situation.
(36:19):
You understand one, how it'sgonna make you feel.
You understand how to thenleverage your strengths that you
have in whatever chaotic,uncertain environment that is
presented.
You know how you'll feel and youknow how you could respond to
it.
I think there's not enough, youknow, we plan for the
situations, but like you talkabout how can we plan to have
(36:40):
the mental toughness, so thatdoesn't matter the situation.
I am leveraging my strengths,and I like how you brought that
up with your son.
So talk to us.
I know, I mean, you have a tonof books that you've already
written you're writing anotherone.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat and what the premise is.
Rob Bell (36:57):
So the next book is called, I Can't Wait to Be
Patient.
And the fastest way to getthere.
It's, you know, I look at themany different paths that we can
take towards improvement andgetting better and it's, it was
really because of the kids,right?
I mean, look, we're gonna behaving the same conversation 10
years from now, Mike, and it'slike, you know, boy, that was
(37:19):
fast.
Like when you have kids, theclock grows legs and it goes so
fast.
That I don't think we value timeenough.
I think we undervalue time whenwe have to overvalue it as the
most precious resource that wehave.
And if you approach it that way,then how do we get so immersed
(37:42):
then just with the pro, with theprocess about what we're doing?
Cause I think the process takespatience.
The product takes perspective.
And the book is just all onthat.
Like, when do we need to act?
When is the time not to act?
How do we get in flow?
How do we get in that zone?
And it's really, it's just basedaround the concept of time and
being able to value it.
(38:02):
So if there's something that Iwant somebody to take from it
though, it's like, you know, youdon't have time to shoot
yourself with a needle, youknow, you don't have time to
waste.
You know, just scrolling all daylong.
You don't have time to, to spendin negativity or, you know,
rumors and stuff like that.
(38:23):
You don't have time for thatstuff because the more and more
time you take for that, it'staking time away from what is
important.
And I'm all about getting stuffdone, man.
A hundred percent.
I mean, that's just what I do,right?
I mean, you get stuff done andit's progress.
But when we get distracted bythe urgent, because sometimes
what is important isn'tnecessarily urgent, and we can
(38:43):
make that mistake where now weget stressed because now we're
taking something that'simportant, but it's not, but not
urgent.
And now we're making it urgent.
And that can cause stress likein our lives or kind of what I
just said about we spend toomuch time on that, which is
unimportant.
And I'm not talking.
Making sure you have relaxed andrecovery time.
I'm not talking about that.
(39:04):
Like that is time that you needto set in there and have, but
just throughout the day, howmuch time we kind of waste and
we're not getting better fromit.
And that's what the book's allabout man.
And it's about all, you know, onthese situations, what is it
that really kind of what we weretalking about, like those
triggers that happen in our lifebecause I wrote, I can't wait to
(39:25):
be patient cuz I'm not patient.
Right.
I'm not.
I want it now, and I know thatwhen it comes to progress, but
why is it sometimes then I'llget stressed, like in the
checkout line, you know, at thesupermarket?
Why is it that I will getfrustrated?
Because we're not connectinghere, you know, online and in
(39:49):
the big scheme of life, likeit's not gonna make.
Minute, a difference, but I'llget stressed in those kinds of
situations.
Why is that?
Because I've made a situationurgent when it doesn't need to
be urgent.
And when we confuse that's whena lot of mistakes can happen.
And that's what the book's allabout, man.
So it's getting written.
It's, I can't wait for it to bedone, but it, yeah, it's quite
(40:12):
the process when it comes to it,man.
But I'm hoping we'll really havesomething that will help a lot
of people.
But I think if we can approachthe mental game through the time
and through that patient's.
Cuz I'm still not running tomany people that are like, oh
yeah, I'm really patient.
I think there's some, you know,but not a lot.
I run into more people likeYeah.
I struggle with patience.
Michael Bauman (40:31):
Perfect.
So you're writing a book for allof us.
For yourself.
For all of us.
Excellent.
So where can people go toconnect up with you, to connect
with what you're doing?
You know, get the previous booksthat you have.
Rob Bell (40:44):
Yeah, absolutely man.
Well, I appreciate that.
You know, all on social media ormy website, it's just
drrobbell.com that's socialmedia links as well, ma'am.
But thanks so much for havingme.
I want to get you on my podcasttoo then, man.
We'll
Michael Bauman (40:57):
Absolutely.
I'd love that.
I really appreciate it.
I appreciate your time.
I loved the insights that youtalked about you know, even
around a success, looking at itand going, can I, like,
celebrate everybody around me?
And knowing if you're not inthat, like how can you, you
know, recenter and then, youknow, building confidence and
confidence in your kids.
(41:17):
And I really appreciate it.
So thanks so much for your,
Rob Bell (41:19):
Absolutely, thank you man!
Michael Bauman (41:22):
Before you go, I would love it if you actually
just shared this episode with afriend.
I'm sure while you werelistening, someone just popped
in your head and you're like,oh, they would probably like
this as well.
So it's really easy.
You just click the share buttonon either the website or
whatever podcast platform you'reon and send it over to'em, and
chances are they'll probablylike it too.
Until next time, keepengineering your success.
One night we were partying near this cliff, and I
(00:03):
ended up walking off a 80 footcliff.
You know, I didn't jump, Iwasn't pushed, I just had no
idea where I was, you have tocrane me up out of it and take
me to the hospital.
But I was alive man, and I wasstill in a lot of pain, but I
could move.
I mean that moment right there,that was a hinge moment.
Michael Bauman (00:24):
How do we truly feel like a success in every
area of our lives?
How do we feel enough and knowthat we are not alone?
Join me as I interview some ofthe top leaders and experts in
the world, from Broadwaydirectors to multimillionaire,
CEOs, neuroscientists, and moreto look behind the curtain of
success and examine not only theachievements, but also the
(00:46):
fears.
The.
The loneliness and how we cannavigate through that to create
the incredible life we actuallywant to live.
Welcome to Success Engineering.
So welcome back to SuccessEngineering.
I'm your host, Michael Baumanit's my pleasure to have Dr.
Rob Bell on.
(01:07):
He's a sports psychology coach.
He's an author.
He's a speaker, so he's spokenthe NSCA, PGA, NFL, Marriott,
Walgreens.
He's written seven books onmental toughness.
Writing.
Another one right now.
We'll get into that.
So his seventh book is calledPuke and Rally.
It's not about the setback, it'sabout the comeback.
And he's worked with threedifferent winners of the P G A
(01:28):
tour.
He's served as a mental coachfor University of Notre Dame,
Indy 11, you know, Indy 500champions, Olympic medalists.
He's done tons of things and hewalks the walk or runs the runs,
so to speak.
He's done Ironmans Ultras, ahundred Mile Trail runs, and
then he is the host of thepodcast called 15 Minutes of
Mental Toughness.
(01:48):
So he interviews experts allover the board on mental health,
mental toughness, things likethat, featured on E S P N, golf
Channel Runners World.
I could just go on and on, butit's a pleasure to have you here
on this show.
I'm looking forward to thisconversation.
Rob Bell (02:02):
Absolutely, man.
Thanks so much for the intro,man.
I appreciate
Michael Bauman (02:04):
Yeah, there you go.
Thanks for doing what you do.
So, so we're
Rob Bell (02:09):
Well, I mean, there, there's sometimes like you get
on a podcast and they're like,tell us about yourself.
I really don't know what to
Michael Bauman (02:14):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Rob Bell (02:15):
it's a lot better.
It's not better having you doit.
Michael Bauman (02:17):
I packaged it up.
Put a little bow on it.
We sorted it out.
All right.
Now we'll get to the meat andpotatoes.
So I literally wanna dive in andit's more so like fall in.
We want to start with thatmoment for you.
So we're gonna, we're gonnastart with the falling off of an
80 foot cliff.
And you can kind of give thebackstory around that and how
that ended up getting in youinto sports psychology.
Rob Bell (02:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, sports was my entirelife.
Baseball, soccer is really whatI.
Love the most, you know, buteven baseball and you know, I
went to a division two school inWest Virginia with the hopes of
playing.
You know, when I get there, likemy 85 mile hour fast ball was
just kind of like average.
And it was really interestingbecause probably about like my
(03:01):
junior, senior year, highschool, I started to get off the
tracks.
I mean, I started drinking alot, just started partying and
having a good time.
It was really just when I gotto.
Now I can have partying and noaccountability and like, what
could possibly go wrong.
And I was always one of thosepeople, man, that was, you know,
if there was trouble, like I wasgonna find it.
(03:22):
And so it was one night we werepartying near this cliff, and
near this cliff was kind of likethis bridge.
And you know, I don't know whywe're parting there, but I mean,
you know, I always tell.
Depending on my audience,nothing good happens after
midnight, so this was obviouslyafter midnight and just had no
idea where I was.
I ended up walking off a 80 footcliff.
(03:43):
You know, I didn't jump, Iwasn't pushed, I just had no
idea where I was, and I'm layingI'm conscious during the whole
time I'm laying at like to thebottom of this crevasse.
You have to crane me up out ofit and take me to the hospital
where my mom is a nurse.
And, you know, I mean, Ifractured my back, broke my arm.
Big gaping head wound, you know,but I was alive man, and I was
still, you know, in a lot ofpain, but I could move.
(04:05):
And I mean that moment rightthere, that was a hinge moment
because baseball then was overand that was it.
And that was that was reallytroublesome to me cuz it, you
know, in my mind, like my 85 menfast ball is gonna get me to
major leagues.
I just had, you know, theemotional pain stuck around a
lot longer than any one of thosebroken bones.
(04:26):
And I still have a lot of like,feeling loss like in my lower
back.
But the emotional scars frommessing up like that, you know,
cuz then you have to face peoplein terms of like, you know, what
were you doing?
You know, I was so glad you'realive, but like, I could be so
dumb, you know?
And if, you know, if it wasn'tfor that, I probably wouldn't
have taken that psychology classand that psychology class is
(04:49):
what made all the difference inmy life.
Cause I knew then at that point,taking that class I can merge
sports and psychology.
I had no idea how I was gonna doit, but I was like, I want,
that's what I want to do.
Cuz I was so entranced ineverything about the mind and it
was around that time as wellthat.
You know, the Dan and Davecommercials for the Olympics
(05:10):
were going on and you can justkind of YouTube'em and anybody
watching.
And I started following DanO'Brien and you know, Dan and
Dave, two Olympians who wasgonna compete for the gold medal
for the us.
And it was at this time Istarted, you know, it makes you
root for one.
It was a Reebok commercials andit made you root for one.
So I started rooting for DanO'Brien.
Well, Dan O'Brien gets toOlympic trials and he's on world
(05:32):
record pace, so he is not evenat the Olympics.
But he is on world record paceand he comes up again up on the
pole vault and he misses threetimes.
So he no heights.
So he goes from first to last,doesn't even make the team.
And I cut out that article fromthe Washington Post and followed
him looking at it right now.
(05:52):
And I actually ran into himprobably about 10 years ago and
showed it to him.
He got a big kick out of it cuzI, we, I said, look, this was a
hinge moment for both of us,like, your failure at Olympic
trials is why I got into thisfield, because I was just blown
away that, what do you mean thebest in the world?
Don't make it like that was justforeign to me.
(06:13):
I'm like, I'm watching this guyon all these commercials,
obviously gonna make, you know,the Olympics.
He doesn't make it.
And then I started following hiscareer and then he started to
see somebody who would help himout with his routines.
You know, breathing, stayingfocused, the confidence, letting
go of.
And it was that point, I waslike, this is what I want to do.
And it all gets back to, youknow, falling off a cliff, man.
(06:36):
So,
Michael Bauman (06:37):
That'll do it for you.
Change.
Change your life.
But don't try this at home.
Right?
Rob Bell (06:43):
yeah.
Michael Bauman (06:44):
other ways to change your life.
Rob Bell (06:46):
Yeah, you know, the one thing Michael that I'll
share, man, it's like, I wasreally given a gift of
perspective and that was thepart that I really held onto,
you know, because when you aremet face-to-face, kind of with
your own mortality however wethink about Lance Armstrong, he
still had an epic quote.
He said, if you ever get asecond chance in life, you have
to go all the way.
And then when I got a secondchance, you know, getting into
(07:07):
grad school, like I wasn't gonnablow it.
And so I felt like the gratitudeperspective that I got from that
was actually a gift.
Michael Bauman (07:14):
Absolutely.
And that's a, you know,phenomenal, you know, reframe
around that situation.
And before we get into, youknow, all the stuff on mental
toughness, I do want to talkabout that loss of I identity.
And this is a huge theme forathletes, whether they're, You
know, finish at high school,finishing college, finish
professional sports, like whenthey have so much of their
(07:34):
identity tied around playing asport.
And also like executives aswell, like, you know, they have
their worth tied up in their joband, you know, whatever it is,
and they lose that.
How do you go about basicallyseparating your identity from.
What you do in sports in life,and I know this is basically the
foundation, the pillar on whatyou build everything else on.
(07:57):
But I, I'd love to hear yourthoughts on that.
Rob Bell (07:59):
well, I think.
I have a fairly good answer forit.
You know, how I dealt with itback then was not well, you
know, I mean I, because you havethe emotional scarring and, the
identity piece.
I mean, I delved into drinkingand partying.
It just even more so, you know,cuz I needed to cover up that
pain, you know, if I couldn'tplay ball in the field, have to
play ball off the field andwhatever that meant.
(08:22):
I think that's what, you know,drugs and alcohol help a lot of
people through that.
It's not the best.
But it gets'em through it, youknow?
And obviously that's the wrongway to self-medicate, but but
that's why so many people do itbecause of that emotional
damage.
It's interesting you bring thatup because I've made it a point
to talk to a couple of people,entrepreneurs that sold their
businesses and they both sold'emfor millions of dollars.
(08:45):
And ask them the question, areyou happier?
That you don't have theresponsibility, the pressure, or
were you happier like during thegrind when you were getting
after it.
And again, small sample size,right?
But both of them said they werehappier when they had the
business, when they were stillgrinding because that identity
(09:05):
piece, when they sold, thebusiness, stopped.
And they had to, and this iswhere I'll get like into the
answer in the question.
They had to find another outletand the part that I think is
important is it's about steppinginto the next, stepping into the
next part of your life.
Sounds easy, but it constantlyhave to keep reinventing
(09:28):
yourself trying new thingsbecause what you're doing, at
some point it's going to end andwhat's stepping into the next
look like for you on the nextchapter?
And if we stay stuck, if wenever keep reinventing
ourselves, finding new avenues,you know, if it's gonna be new
clients new tools, new skills.
(09:48):
If we're not constantly gettingbetter, then stepping in the
next gets a whole lot harder cuzwe're still gonna be holding on
to that identity.
And I think we need to do itlike when we're healthy and, you
know, well adjusted right now.
You don't wanna wait until yourcareer's done.
Like with professional athletes,right?
E even those that.
Contemplating what retirementwas gonna look like, did a whole
(10:10):
lot better.
You know, research showed thanthose that waited until their
career was over in order to makethat shift.
And I think, like I always, BobDylan was one of my favorite
artists, right?
Love Bob Dylan.
And Bob Dylan.
If you follow him, like all hismusic was different, you know, I
(10:32):
mean, this was a guy who was afolk singer.
And then he started playingelectric guitar and his fans
booed him.
You know, I mean, you know, BobDylan fans were booing them
because they didn't want himgoing electric.
Like, what was that?
Michael Bauman (10:45):
Right.
Rob Bell (10:46):
And he constantly kept reinventing himself.
And that's why, you know, he'sstill around even today.
Because that's the point aboutconstantly reinventing yourself.
And I mean, you look at anybody,any great artist that you can
see their work, they're alwaysgetting better because they're
reinventing themselves.
That's the way I kind of look atit.
Being able to step in the next,have to keep reinventing
ourselves, helps us with thattransition.
Michael Bauman (11:08):
Yeah, and that's really important.
I had mark Verstegen, the NFLperformance director and founder
of EXOS on the podcast, and hetalked about that, how 30% of
athletes, you know, professionalathletes from the N F L when
they retire, they struggle with.
Three main things.
One is like financial ruin,which is crazy.
The other one is justrelational, like distress, you
(11:30):
know, whatever that is.
Like, you know, domestic abuseor just like relational
conflict, divorce, that kind ofthing.
Or struggling with addictionand, because a lot of it is,
That just loss of everythingthat, you know, that they're
self worth and stuff was builtaround.
So I appreciate you talkingabout that.
And it's that, you know,planning in advance for these
(11:50):
kind of things.
And that's what, you know,essentially mental toughness is,
it's how can you plan it inadvance so that you can be tough
to handle these situations.
So let's get into that a littlebit and talk to us.
You know, what is mentaltoughness?
What isn't mental toughness?
So kind of the myths around it.
And then talk about those maincomponents of it, and then we'll
(12:11):
get into the nitty gritty oflike how we can actually, you
know, build each of those in ourlives.
Rob Bell (12:17):
Well, I always like, let's start with what it isn't.
That's okay.
I mean, mental toughness.
I think when we say it gets abad edge because people say
mental toughness.
They think a couple things.
One, Flipping huge tires, likeit's all physical exertion, you
know, it's all physicaltoughness.
And the other myth ormisconception of mental
(12:39):
toughness is it's doing it onyour own, right?
Pulling up your bootstraps, justgetting it done.
And I really look at that askind of like the opposite of
mental toughest.
I think a lot of times it's whoare you surrounding yourself
with?
So when you are gonna needpicked up, who is it that's
there to.
And I think a lot of times, manit's just being able to create
(12:59):
that network of people that arearound you that you know, you
help them out, but they're gonnahelp you out when you're gonna
need it as well.
And that's the part I look at isno one gets there alone.
And that's a huge part I thinkof the mental game as well.
So I always try putting thoseout there in terms of like,
look, mental toughness isn'tnow, are there physical pieces
that go to it?
Sure.
But that's just one component oflike mental toughness.
(13:22):
Jim Lair defined it, and Ialways still use his, because
there's a lot of academics thatwill throw out a lot of
definitions, mental toughness.
But his definition was how youdeal, handle and cope with
adversity.
And that's pretty much what itis.
So adversity has to be presentin order for mental toughness to
come out.
So adversity reveals one's levelof mental toughness, but
(13:47):
adversity also build.
Mental toughness, depending onthe situation, if there's a
coach there, you know, it justdoesn't build it by itself.
Like sports doesn't teach usanything by itself.
It teaches whatever we want toteach.
And that's kind of the samething with like mental
toughness.
So it's really, it's how wedeal, handle and cope with the
adversity, the setbacks, and thestruggle in life.
(14:08):
And that's basically all it is.
All the other skills go into howwe navigate.
And a lot of times in it, it's,I'm putting this in the next
book cuz it's just how weadjust, you know, how well you
adjust, how well do you adapt,how well can you move on?
And kind of we're talking aboutright, stepping to the next.
Michael Bauman (14:27):
Yeah.
I had another guest that I hadon Craig Weller.
He trains Elite Special Forces.
He was a sp a special forceoperator and now he trains him
to blast this election test.
But what I thought wasinteresting is he talks about
how he uses the exact sameframeworks as far as, you know,
stress response, like fearinoculation, all of those kind
(14:48):
of things, segmentation com,compartmentalization, whatever
they use to get through theseincredibly challenging things
physically.
He has a newborn baby and hetalks about how he used that
same thing.
In terms of his response to hiswife when he's tired, when he's
at the end of the rope.
And I think that's an overlookedaspect like you're talking
about.
So I really appreciate youtalking about that aspect of it.
(15:11):
It's going like, how do yourespond in any level of
adversity, not just a physicalone, but like when you're tired
and your kids you know, arekeeping you up at night and you
know you're at the end of therope, do you still respond
positively from that?
Rob Bell (15:24):
No, I don't.
No.
Michael Bauman (15:26):
No I'm the same, right?
Like literally last night my sonwoke me up three times in the
middle of the night and I'mlike, this is crazy.
Right?
And so that's anotherinteresting thing to look at.
At what point.
Along that spectrum.
Do I lose it?
Do I not show up how I want toshow up?
Right.
And that's where you go, oh, ifwe're thinking of it from a
(15:47):
tough knit perspective orexercise perspective, you go, I
can't lift that weight yet, butI can train to get there.
You know, so, so
Rob Bell (15:56):
there, there's, and there's always triggers, right?
Like one for me is like when Ido, when I get tired,
Michael Bauman (16:01):
yes.
Rob Bell (16:01):
and when it's late at night, like again, I've been up,
you know, since 4 35 in themorning and I try communicating
that like with my wife and kids,like, when it's time for bed,
I'm gonna be out.
Can't help me with any newinformation because you're not
gonna like the response.
So they have gotten so muchbetter at that, you know, cuz
we, we've programmed a housethat way.
(16:22):
But I think the triggers arelike, when we're hungry, angry,
lonely, or tired, you know,those.
Triggers, at least for me, oneof those are going on.
If I'm not showing up, like yousaid, the way that I want to,
Michael Bauman (16:33):
Talk to us.
I mean, it's a perfect segue.
Talk to us about how you developthe internal awareness of
basically like what is actuallygoing on with yourself, whether
that's emotions, whether that'sphysiology.
How do you go about trainingthat as a skill?
Rob Bell (16:48):
so here's the tough part, right, is because the mind
has one job, and I'm not sayinganything you don't already know,
but it's just to keep you safe.
And that's who we're alwayscompeting against, is that own
mind.
So the mind, for instance, atfive o'clock in the morning that
says, get up, your mind's gonnabe like, boy, it's really
comfortable in this bed.
Why don't we just stay in bed?
(17:09):
So that's who you're competingagainst.
So try playing a one-on-onebasketball with somebody who
already knows what you're gonnado before you do it.
Like it's tough to beat thatopponent, but that's who you're
competing.
Hence the part what, why it getsso difficult is because it's
just about being aware of like,what are gonna be the triggers,
(17:30):
you know, and what are thetriggers and what are the
emotions that are gonna comeinto it?
Because that's the part whereit's mostly just gets emotion
based.
When emotions start, you know,creating commotion in the mind.
That's gonna be like the hugetrigger.
And the tough part is it's onlywhen that hits.
Are we able to, you know, workon the response?
(17:51):
Then you gotta be able to lookat it and say, all right, did I
respond well in that situation?
What can I do different nexttime?
And then that's how I look atlike the mental muscle getting
built that way.
Michael Bauman (18:02):
Yeah, talk to us cuz these are, you know, pretty
foundational pillars of what youdo.
So talk to us about that.
Talk to us about the ability tofocus.
And the ability to refocus.
And this is what distinguisheslike high performers in any
area, like their ability tofocus and then if they get off
track, their ability to refocusfocus.
So talk to us about that andagain, talk to us about how we
(18:26):
can go about when we do havethose adversities, making sure
we are using that to trainthose.
Rob Bell (18:31):
And that's the key, right, is so it's like, What's
gonna be the adversity thatwe're gonna face?
Because even talking with you,if I look at, all right, well,
is Rob mentally tough?
Right?
Well, in some areas, yes.
In some areas, no.
So what area am I mentally toughat?
What?
And I would look at it.
(18:52):
Look, the main skill that I haveis the perseverance, right?
The never give up.
That's basically.
I mean, be honest, right?
That's basically it, man.
So now that goes a long way.
But if you look at like theraces, like Iron Mans and, you
know, a hundred miles, well,it's really based on obviously
your preparation, but not givingup.
(19:13):
Look, if you don't give up, areyou gonna finish the race?
And you know, those are reallylike, and that's a huge part of
it, but then it goes into kindof what you're talking about,
right?
Like the focus.
When does Rob become likeself-conscious in terms of, you
know, monitoring myself, youknow, it's not gonna be when I'm
speaking, but it's gonna be in asituation where, hey, maybe I'm
(19:36):
not that comfortable in.
Right.
Maybe if it's like working witha new team or something like
that.
So the focus piece is, I thinkwe have to be just a little bit
more excited than nervous.
And it's being able to train ourmind, I think in every kind of
situation that this is somethinggood can happen here.
(19:56):
If we look for the opportunity,our mind wants to say something
bad could happen here.
This is a threat.
And now we're more nervous thanwe are excited.
So all we need to be is just alittle bit more excited than
nervous.
Like it's the same thing, likeall you need to be is just a
little bit more brave thanscared.
That's it.
Just a little.
And then you're gonna be takingthe steps.
(20:18):
And that's the way I kind oflook at focus and be able to
train that muscle.
It's a lot of different ways todo it, but I always think that's
key, man, is to be able to makesure you're approaching the
situation's excited.
Hey, this is an opportunity,something good could happen.
And that's why I have thefeelings that I have.
And then the other part, I mean,refocus.
You know, how do you let go ofmistakes?
Move on.
(20:39):
See, that's the skill that Robis not good at, you know?
Why?
Well, because, you know, even asa kid, I mean, there was a
perfectionism that came intomind and it wasn't okay to make
mistakes, you know?
And and so that part, I do getbetter at it, but I'm not, like,
it's not a strength of mine.
You know what I mean?
I really have to be aware ofwhen.
(21:00):
And that's why I wrote puke andrallies so much, man, was
because I really believe, look,it's not about the setback, it's
gonna be about the comeback.
How do we respond?
In those situations.
So we're cool, calm, andcollected.
Because I look at anybody, man,anybody can take the the helm
and the seas are calm, right?
But it's the stormy seas.
That's what really makes thegood sailors and refocus being
(21:26):
able to move on, let go ofmistakes.
None of us get taught that.
At least I didn't, you know?
And that's where I'll see with alot of athletes today,
entrepreneurs, the fact that wemake mistakes.
You know, we hide from thatstuff.
And whether or not we hidepeople talk about being
vulnerable.
Well that's the part about, youhave to have that group of
people around you that you canbe vulnerable with.
(21:48):
Cuz you don't, I mean, you don'tneed to be posting that on all
social media, how you failed.
Now there's gonna be a lot of,you know, sympathy and failure
notes from that stuff, but, youknow, that's just a whole
nother.
And I, I just look at it aslike, the focus in terms of
being a little bit more excited,the nervous and the refocus part
(22:09):
of how do we let it go, move on.
What they never, ever told me,maybe they told you, but the
whole quote about, you fall downseven, you get up eight, like
that Epic saying, right?
Like, that was really nice.
What they never told you ornever told, Was that when you
fall down for the fourth andfifth time, you think about the
(22:34):
second and third time that youfell down and how bad that hurts
because it brings back all theflood of emotions of when you
failed before.
And that's the part that theyfailed to tell us about, that
when you failed, it's gonnabring back all the past failures
that you had that are no longertrue or real, but it affects
then our identity and once itstarts to affect your identity.
(22:55):
You can't let you know.
Wins go to your head, but youcan't let losses go to your
heart.
That's the whole point, is yougotta protect that identity and
know who you are outside of andback to our original point,
right outside of yourperformance and what it is that
you do.
Michael Bauman (23:09):
Yeah, so many good points there.
Again, very similar to CraigWeller.
He talked about the exact samething, just reframing
nervousness as excitement.
Like physiologically, yourbody's doing the same thing.
Your heart rate increases, youknow, your blood pressure
increases.
You know, all your blood'spumped your muscles.
Whether you're excited or you'renervous, it's the same, you
(23:31):
know, str fear or stressresponse, but you get to frame
it and he talks about thatframing even in terms of, is
stress debilitating for you?
Like a debilitating stressmindset or a challenging stress
mindset?
Does stress your response tothat produce the response you
need to meet the challenge?
So I love what you were saying.
(23:52):
About that goes directly along,along with what he was saying as
well.
So I'm curious, you know, foryou, like, you do the sports
stuff, you coach executives andthings like that.
I'm curious, like if somebody,like an executive comes to you
and says, I want to develop mymental toughness, where do you
start with that?
(24:12):
Like, do you have a specificassessment process?
Is there a framework?
What does that look like?
Rob Bell (24:16):
Well, a lot of it's my interviewing because if it's
gonna be a coach athleterelationship, the relationship
piece is what's important.
And I'm not for everybody.
You know, I'm really not becausethe athletes that I work with, I
call everybody an athlete,right?
It's just our office isdifferent.
It's a corporate athlete that Iwork with.
Like there has to be you know,this willing to be able to push
(24:36):
yourself.
And if we're not gonna bewilling to do any physical
stuff, then I'm not the rightguy for you.
You know?
I'm just not.
And there's other people thatare out there that maybe their
approach is better.
So the interviewing piece isimportant.
I'm always starting I'm, I tryworking backwards and looking at
what does success look like?
Like most of the people I workwith, like they have success.
(24:59):
So what is it that's lacking?
You know, sometimes it's thatpeace of mind.
Sometimes it's just all toocomplicated.
It's not simple.
Sometimes they feel this justimmense pressure that what we're
talking about, right?
They can't, or they can nolonger.
Reveal or show up as them trueselves because there's just too
(25:20):
much on the line now.
And always look at, you know,mental toughness.
The older we get and the betterwe get.
It's more about what takes placeoff the field than what takes
place on the field.
On the field.
Sometimes, man, that's the easything for'em, right?
Like being in the deal or in themix.
It's just what takes placeoutside of it that becomes more
(25:41):
and more difficult.
And so really it's just aboutworking backwards, man.
What does success look like?
How are we gonna know when wereach it?
Michael Bauman (25:48):
Yes.
That's everything that I talkabout.
Super important.
Let's, I mean, let's use thatand I, I want to flip it over to
you and ask like, what doessuccess look like for you?
Personally, and how do youcreate that in.
Rob Bell (26:02):
Yeah, that's a great question, ma'am.
So I always think a lot aboutthat and.
You know, like, like anybody,man, I mean, there's material
things, you know, I likeexperiences and stuff like that,
but it really comes to success.
When I was growing up, JoeSmith, I was a Maryland
Terrapins fan, basketball fan.
So Joe Smith played for Marylandbasketball.
It was first round draft pick,and they went and they played at
(26:26):
Duke.
One of the games now growing up,hated Duke, right?
Couldn't stand Duke.
Joe Smith went down to CameronIndoor Stadium and had one of
these games that was iconic.
I mean, just took over the gameand won, you know, beat Duke at
Duke.
And it was basically him.
And I remember watching, and theCameron crazies did something
they actually clapped andapplauded for him.
(26:49):
And I was like, whoa.
Like that's the strangest thingI've ever seen.
You know what I mean?
And it really got me thinking,well, what does success look?
And this is why I think successis for me, it's being able to
root for everybody.
Because when I can root foreverybody, everybody to have
success, then the only way thatI can do that is come from
mentality in a stance of youknow, abundance, an abundance
(27:12):
mentality that this is not azero sum game.
That there's a slice of pie foreverybody.
And when I can root for otherpeople, like even opponent,
That's where I look at, man,that's the best competition
because that's gonna even makeyou better.
But that's the part of whenpeople have success, I need to
(27:32):
be able to look at it and say,man what is it that they're
doing?
Right?
What is it that they do?
I'm not looking at their why,but I'm looking at their, how.
We gotta look at our own why andexamine other people's how.
You know, and sometimes likewhen I'm not feeling confident,
not feeling good or haven't hadsuccess, like that gets really
difficult, right?
Because I don't wanna startrooting for other people.
(27:53):
Like I just need to focus moreon what I'm doing when it's
really, it's the opposite.
And when I am at my best, I'mrooting for everybody.
And that's what I look at.
What is true success.
Michael Bauman (28:05):
Wow.
Yeah I love that is.
That is powerful and it's veryeasy to tell whether you're in
alignment with that or out ofalignment with that.
And it's, you know, easy to kindof use that as a reset.
So, yeah, I really appreciatethat.
Rob Bell (28:20):
Now people are gonna say, well, does that mean you
root for Duke basketball?
Like, no,
Michael Bauman (28:24):
I don't go that far
Rob Bell (28:25):
Yeah, I'm not talking about that
Michael Bauman (28:26):
roof for everybody except for Duke.
That's what to define assuccess.
So I like, I know, you know,you're a parent.
I'm a parent.
I also like asking and you havea book about parenting as well.
But I am curious too, like whatwould you say is success as a
parent?
Rob Bell (28:43):
And that's a great one, man.
You know, I really like it whenparents, other parents or other
teachers will comment to us,how.
You know how good our kids are.
You know, I think that, I meanthat, that's wonderful
compliment, you know?
And that really feels good.
And it feels better because it'slike, you know, we only get
(29:04):
these sort of things like, cuzyesterday my kids were your age,
you know what I mean?
And that was yesterday.
And so the fact of the clockgrows legs when they get older.
Like it's being able to, beingable then to look at that and,
okay, well what does success,what is it that I want for them?
And the answer, it's prettyelementary, but I want, when
(29:26):
they have a flat tire, I don'twant to be the first call that,
that I get.
I want them to be able to handlethat situation and then to call
me later and then let me know.
Now, of course I'll be there forit, but I've mentioned that
because our job as parents is tobuild capacity, not dependency.
(29:49):
Like I don't want'em dependenton us.
I don't want'em dependent on me.
If they become dependent on me,I'm gonna let'em down at some
point, right?
Because then that's required meto always be available when, no,
my job is to teach you how youcan be able to handle these
adversity on your own.
You know, and that's, man, Iknow it's a bit elementary, but
(30:10):
that's what I kind of looked at.
Like when they face difficultsituation, I don't want to have
to be the first caller to make.
Michael Bauman (30:16):
Yeah.
How do you go about.
Creating or kind of holding thespace for them to develop their
own mental toughness in a waythat obviously they know that
you still are 100% behind them,100%.
Support them, 100% love them.
What does that look like foryou?
Rob Bell (30:33):
Yeah, and I think that's the part, I mean, I look
athletes in general wanna becoached hard.
They do, but.
They also want to be loved, youknow?
So I think if you come from thestandpoint of knowing that you
care about'em, they want to becoached hard because you have
that base that's there.
So that's what's key, is tell mykids, you know, how much I love
(30:54):
them, you know, and we talkabout it all the time and how
much I love them, because youdon't know when that last day is
gonna be, unfortunately.
And once we come from thatstandpoint, then, you know, then
we can coach'em hard.
You know, they've always.
I look at work as, man, it's apillar to life.
It's a pillar to skills.
(31:15):
It's a pillar.
I just think like there's, andthat's probably like the ultra
runner in me, right?
It's like, Rob, do you want tocome like chop wood, you know,
this afternoon and then like,watch a game?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do.
I mean, that sounds like fun tome cuz I like working, you know,
and I do, I just love work andso teaching them even that
appreciation I think is a bigpart.
(31:36):
And then the other part is, it'sfunny because my daughter and I
were born in the same day, soshe has the same hurts, hangups,
and headaches that I do.
So I can actually see like whenthey're coming and I'll always
look at, look, the best coachingthat we do is always in the
debrief.
It's always gonna be after thesituation.
All right.
What did we learn from that kindof situation there?
(31:57):
What do we do different?
You know, my daughter was in atennis match last year where,
you know, she was gettinghooked, man.
She was getting cheat.
Nothing I can do as a parent,but she went up and had that
conversation with that playerand basically said, you know,
what game are we playing here?
And boy, I was so proud of that,you know, and it had nothing to
(32:17):
do with the outcome and thematch, but it was like that's
what you want.
Somebody that has their voice,you know, that has agency that
knows that they're empowered andthat they can do whatever they
want.
I've always told my daughter,I'm not raising a princess.
I'm raising a president.
Because a princess man stuff isbequeath to you as a president,
you have to earn it, you know,and it's said there's, nobody's
(32:38):
gonna be giving you anything.
And if you have that mentality,then you're just gonna be
somebody that's just trying towork the system.
And so I think like those arealways a couple of them.
And then it's just giving themthat space, giving'em that
freedom, giving'em thatresponsibility that, that goes
along with it.
And no matter what I mean, stillloving'em when they make
mistakes and when they mess up.
You know, just being able guidehim through that path I think is
(33:01):
important.
Michael Bauman (33:02):
Yeah, a lot of really good things in that as
far as, you know, like you said,like you mentioned, to build
capacity rather than dependency.
The other thing, and this isagain, another pillar in this
mental toughness piece, is thataspect of confidence.
So I'm curious both for yourkids, how you do that, but then
also just in general with the,you know, corporate athletes,
(33:24):
the athletes that you work with.
How do we go.
Training confidence that you canshow up how you've prepared to
show up when you need to.
Rob Bell (33:33):
Yeah I ultimately think it just gets back to your
identity.
You have to know what youridentity is, and once you know
your identity and what thatfoundation is, then you are not
going to live and die off ofevery performance and every
failure and setback.
You know, what your identity isrooted in.
Ultimately.
I think that's where confidencecomes from.
(33:55):
Because I've looked at peoplethat have struggled the most,
and it's when that confidence isnot there anymore.
Well, why is that?
Because they were alwaysdependent on success to tell'em
like who they were.
And the problem with that is,and this is sort of the good
part, is when you have success,you get a lot of pets in the
(34:16):
back, you get a lot of attaboys,you get a lot of recognition for
it, and then that is what thencan feed your soul.
But if that's what's.
Ultimately it's gonna leave youempty and it just cannot sustain
it.
So I look at confidence asknowing what your identity is,
and then from that, I mean, lookman, there's so many different
(34:37):
you just gotta know, I thinkwhat your strength is.
You know, like my son, he'stremendous at letting go of
mistakes.
I don't know how he does it,man.
I really don't like you.
Are you my.
Michael Bauman (34:49):
Yeah.
Rob Bell (34:51):
Because, yeah, he'll get upset, but it's like, you
know, an hour later, like it'sgone.
Like it's totally gone, dude.
I'm raking myself over the coalsfor that.
So he has to then lead withthat, and that's how he is gonna
get confidence, you know,knowing that, look, the
mistakes, it's a bruise.
It's not a tattoo.
(35:11):
He's, once you lead from likeyour strengths my strength of
like never giving up.
Okay.
If I lead with that, then I'mgonna have confidence in.
If I'm leading from, you know,my ability to focus under
pressure then we get confidencein that.
So I think it's definitely aboutknowing what your strength is
and constantly refining that andworking from that.
And that's how I think that weget real confidence.
(35:32):
The other part, I mean, it'sabout putting yourself in so
many different types ofsituations as well.
I've been blessed, man, lived ina lot of different states that
and just have been around.
Have you know, the experienceand I think that confidence
definitely comes fromexperience, but just being able
to put yourself in, I think, somany different arenas and that's
(35:53):
how we're learning aboutourselves and that's ultimately
how we get confidence from it.
Michael Bauman (35:57):
Yeah I like that perspective too, cuz a lot of
times people think and you know,not to minimize planning for
different situations and, youknow, seeing what could go wrong
and having plans for that.
But I think.
You know, like what you'retalking about, there's maybe not
enough said or not enoughemphasis put on actually
understanding that it doesn'tmatter the situation.
(36:19):
You understand one, how it'sgonna make you feel.
You understand how to thenleverage your strengths that you
have in whatever chaotic,uncertain environment that is
presented.
You know how you'll feel and youknow how you could respond to
it.
I think there's not enough, youknow, we plan for the
situations, but like you talkabout how can we plan to have
(36:40):
the mental toughness, so thatdoesn't matter the situation.
I am leveraging my strengths,and I like how you brought that
up with your son.
So talk to us.
I know, I mean, you have a tonof books that you've already
written you're writing anotherone.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat and what the premise is.
Rob Bell (36:57):
So the next book is called, I Can't Wait to Be
Patient.
And the fastest way to getthere.
It's, you know, I look at themany different paths that we can
take towards improvement andgetting better and it's, it was
really because of the kids,right?
I mean, look, we're gonna behaving the same conversation 10
years from now, Mike, and it'slike, you know, boy, that was
(37:19):
fast.
Like when you have kids, theclock grows legs and it goes so
fast.
That I don't think we value timeenough.
I think we undervalue time whenwe have to overvalue it as the
most precious resource that wehave.
And if you approach it that way,then how do we get so immersed
(37:42):
then just with the pro, with theprocess about what we're doing?
Cause I think the process takespatience.
The product takes perspective.
And the book is just all onthat.
Like, when do we need to act?
When is the time not to act?
How do we get in flow?
How do we get in that zone?
And it's really, it's just basedaround the concept of time and
being able to value it.
(38:02):
So if there's something that Iwant somebody to take from it
though, it's like, you know, youdon't have time to shoot
yourself with a needle, youknow, you don't have time to
waste.
You know, just scrolling all daylong.
You don't have time to, to spendin negativity or, you know,
rumors and stuff like that.
(38:23):
You don't have time for thatstuff because the more and more
time you take for that, it'staking time away from what is
important.
And I'm all about getting stuffdone, man.
A hundred percent.
I mean, that's just what I do,right?
I mean, you get stuff done andit's progress.
But when we get distracted bythe urgent, because sometimes
what is important isn'tnecessarily urgent, and we can
(38:43):
make that mistake where now weget stressed because now we're
taking something that'simportant, but it's not, but not
urgent.
And now we're making it urgent.
And that can cause stress likein our lives or kind of what I
just said about we spend toomuch time on that, which is
unimportant.
And I'm not talking.
Making sure you have relaxed andrecovery time.
I'm not talking about that.
(39:04):
Like that is time that you needto set in there and have, but
just throughout the day, howmuch time we kind of waste and
we're not getting better fromit.
And that's what the book's allabout man.
And it's about all, you know, onthese situations, what is it
that really kind of what we weretalking about, like those
triggers that happen in our lifebecause I wrote, I can't wait to
(39:25):
be patient cuz I'm not patient.
Right.
I'm not.
I want it now, and I know thatwhen it comes to progress, but
why is it sometimes then I'llget stressed, like in the
checkout line, you know, at thesupermarket?
Why is it that I will getfrustrated?
Because we're not connectinghere, you know, online and in
(39:49):
the big scheme of life, likeit's not gonna make.
Minute, a difference, but I'llget stressed in those kinds of
situations.
Why is that?
Because I've made a situationurgent when it doesn't need to
be urgent.
And when we confuse that's whena lot of mistakes can happen.
And that's what the book's allabout, man.
So it's getting written.
It's, I can't wait for it to bedone, but it, yeah, it's quite
(40:12):
the process when it comes to it,man.
But I'm hoping we'll really havesomething that will help a lot
of people.
But I think if we can approachthe mental game through the time
and through that patient's.
Cuz I'm still not running tomany people that are like, oh
yeah, I'm really patient.
I think there's some, you know,but not a lot.
I run into more people likeYeah.
I struggle with patience.
Michael Bauman (40:31):
Perfect.
So you're writing a book for allof us.
For yourself.
For all of us.
Excellent.
So where can people go toconnect up with you, to connect
with what you're doing?
You know, get the previous booksthat you have.
Rob Bell (40:44):
Yeah, absolutely man.
Well, I appreciate that.
You know, all on social media ormy website, it's just
drrobbell.com that's socialmedia links as well, ma'am.
But thanks so much for havingme.
I want to get you on my podcasttoo then, man.
We'll
Michael Bauman (40:57):
Absolutely.
I'd love that.
I really appreciate it.
I appreciate your time.
I loved the insights that youtalked about you know, even
around a success, looking at itand going, can I, like,
celebrate everybody around me?
And knowing if you're not inthat, like how can you, you
know, recenter and then, youknow, building confidence and
confidence in your kids.
(41:17):
And I really appreciate it.
So thanks so much for your,
Rob Bell (41:19):
Absolutely, thank you man!
Michael Bauman (41:22):
Before you go, I would love it if you actually
just shared this episode with afriend.
I'm sure while you werelistening, someone just popped
in your head and you're like,oh, they would probably like
this as well.
So it's really easy.
You just click the share buttonon either the website or
whatever podcast platform you'reon and send it over to'em, and
chances are they'll probablylike it too.
Until next time, keepengineering your success.
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