Naturopathic and Spiritual Approach to Mental Health and Overall Wellbeing w/ Dr. Serena Goldstein (Ep.26)

Episode Transcript
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Emma Viglucci (00:00):
Hello, lovelies, and welcome to another episode.
I am so excited and honoredtoday to have another
conversation with Dr Serena, annaturopathic doctor, and today
we talk about the brain andmental health, and I love this
conversation because we talkabout this from the place of the
body.
All the body organs impact ourmental health.

(00:23):
It's not just about the brain,but there are different things
that might be happening thateither impact or mimic mental
health conditions.
So the conversation is so richaround that.
What are the things that mightbe influencing our well-being
and how we feel emotionally andmentally?
We address all of the differentways that we could support how

(00:46):
we're feeling.
We give alternative suggestionson how to address different
conditions and different needsso that we're not dependent on
psychotropic medicines if wedon't want to be, or just on
supplements or feeling like wedon't have options and that we
might not be able to resolvethis thing or we're stuck with
this thing for life.
So we actually have awonderfully resourceful

(01:09):
conversation in that there was alot of different things that we
could do to take care ofourselves and to enrich our
experience and our journey sothat we could feel well and
resourced and have a lot ofvitality and joy in our life.
That's what we're here to do sothat we could have the best
relationship and best life thatwe want.
Stay tuned, you're in for atreat.

(01:30):
Let me read you her bio andthen we'll say hello to Serena.
Dr Serena Goldstein is anaturopathic doctor who guides
you to trust and understand whatyour body is telling you.
She has diverse, deep andgrowing knowledge based around
conventional medicine, naturalmodalities, energy medicine
modalities and spirituality,where she seeks to find and

(01:53):
address the root cause ofsymptoms with an individualized
plan that also feels like relief.
Dr Serena works with thoseexperiencing weight gain,
hormonal imbalance, poor sleep,stress, thyroid mood and gut
health issues, who want to learnmore about what their body is
saying and needs.
She has also shared herexpertise on outlets such as

(02:16):
MindBodyGreen, forbes andShapecom.
She has appeared on NYU DoctorRadio, cyrus XM, written
multiple research articles onmind-body healing, presented at
numerous conferences, and hasserved as an advisory board
member for Natural PractitionerMagazine.
You can find her atdrserinagolsteincom.

(02:41):
Hello and welcome, serena.
I'm so happy to have you hereagain with us today.
Yes.

Dr. Serena Goldstein (02:49):
I'm so happy to be here as well.
Thank you again.

Let me tell you something.
I had so much fun at the lastconversation when we talked all
hormonal things, and today we'regoing to talk about more of the
brain side of things.
And today we're going to talkabout more of the brain side of
things.
I want to say less physical andmore mental, more abstract, but
I'm not sure if that's true.
So as the conversation unfoldswe'll see how we place that

(03:13):
right, because the body is apart of all of this, but I'm
super psyched for this topicbecause the brain, the mind and
all of the things that are goingto come with this are my cup of
tea, and so happy to delve intothe nuances of how to work with
the brain from a differentangle.
That is not psychotherapy,right?
So, yay, definitely, yes, verygood.

(03:37):
So let me ask you the firstthing then.
So how do you find that mentalhealth and mental health topics
or issues that people might beexperiencing show up in your
practice?
Because I don't know if peoplecome to you for necessarily for
mental health problems, right?
But so you tell me, like, howdoes it show up for you?

(03:57):
Like, is it a side thing thatpeople come for it?
Like, how does it play out?

So it tends to play out in a variety
of ways.
So a lot of the times yes, alot of people know me for
hormones, weight, the wholegeneral endocrine system.
However, a lot of the timesI'll find, oh, but then I was
also put on the psych med when Iwas a teenager, or oh, I just
went through a really rough timeand the doctor put me on fill

(04:24):
in the blank with theprescription.
Maybe they, or maybe they justfeel like they haven't been
themselves lately, which I willsay too, can also be a sign of
imbalanced hormones as well,because you know, as we may get
into it, but hormones andneurotransmitters responsible
for our mood, like dope ordopamine, like the reward

(04:44):
hormone A lot of those do tendto mirror hormones themselves.
So it is interesting sometimeshow the symptoms and how they
present can actually looksimilar.
Or it may be they just needsome more motivation.
It can literally just be moreof you could the talk, therapy
or lifestyle counseling.

(05:06):
You could say they've triedeverything.
They have no idea what to donext.
If anyone's ever heard of thefight, flight, freeze or fawn,
they're probably somewhere alongthe mix of all of those when it
comes to trying to figure outwhat next to do for health.
So those, so that's where Itend to see whether it's again

(05:31):
people wanting to get off sitemeds or maybe they were
recommended when they're like,no, no, we want to go natural or
it becomes more of a behavioralpattern piece of you know, I or
I want to stop eating this food, or I want to quit this habit.
I want to know my next level ofhealth and it's just more of
how do we work with thatpersonality and how do we work

(05:51):
with the person themselves.

Right.
So I think I'm hearing thatpeople might come in for a bunch
of different things.
There's not one way that theymight come in, even though you
do specialize, like you said, inweight loss or hormonal
endocrine system things.
But then you might have theseother flavors show up in that
you know I'm taking all thismedicine also, or this other

(06:17):
thing is playing out, or howeverthe thing shows up, then you
might see oh, there's somethingelse going on that that impacts
how you're feeling overall.
That might show up as mentalhealth conditions or symptoms,
motivation or not feeling so hotor other things that just just
all the systems are interactingwith each other, and it shows up

(06:38):
as a mental health thing inother areas of their life.
So you do see, the diagnosiscome up as well.
Like, what kind of diagnosishave you seen that people
mention that they have when theycome to see you?

Yeah, I would say yeah.
So I would say usually anxietyand depression would be the
biggest, would be the or thepredominant ones, right, and
interestingly, or maybe you know, similarly they do tend to fall
along the lines of imbalancedhormones.
They're not sleeping properly,they're not eating the right

(07:09):
foods, so while they may come inand check off certain boxes, at
the same time I'm also lookingpast the diagnosis to say, but
did something just happen intheir life?
Or how long have they beendealing with this?
Are they on other medicationsthat could be depleting certain
vitamins and minerals?
Because actually psych meds cando that?

(07:31):
Yes, that could really becontributing to you know, again
the person sitting in front ofme.
So how much of it is the actualdiagnosis?
Or because I know thosediagnoses too are pretty broad,
you know, but again we need toconsider many other factors.

You know what's really funny, as we're having
this conversation and as I'mthinking, I'm putting myself in
your shoes when you're workingwith people, and also in
people's shoes when they come into see you.
Like I'm trying to think aboutthis from a lot of different
angles year, like I'm trying tothink about this from a lot of
different angles, and what'scoming to me is that's why I do
this kind of interviews, becauseI know that when people come to

(08:13):
see me, they have all of thesymptoms that they might have
the diagnosable things and thennot diagnosable things or
relational patterns and all thethings that people have.
You could trace it back to allthis other stuff, too.
That is why I have people likeyourself on my podcast, right?
Because when we watch the foodand we watch the habits and we
watch all the other things, allthe other wellness aspects of

(08:35):
our lives Huh, interesting andmental health gets better, right
?

So this is exactly the reason why I have
conversations like this.
So a lot of times, for example,I will see in women a lot of
anxiety around food, you know,especially when it comes to
weight and hormones and theirown changes, and they don't know
what diet to do next, or wonderif this food is making them fat
.
Oh, but then they've triedintermittent fasting but that

(09:05):
doesn't seem to work, and thenthey tried portioning their
plate out.
But they have this distinctmemory from when they were a kid
growing up, whether it wassomething their mother said or
their father said, and somehowit just stuck.
And now it's affecting them 30,40 plus years later.

(09:27):
So a lot of the times thequestioning will go back to like
, for example, what were youtold about food when you were
growing up?
Because even that's changed alot over the decades not even
the food, just bodies.

How we're supposed to look like.
Like your habits around food.
How do you eat the food?
Just bodies.
How we're supposed to look like.
Like your habits around food.
How do you eat the food?
Also now, from my therapist'shead relationship around food
how meals played out betweenwith family members maybe that's
when all the blow ups happenduring dinner time or just
whatever.
All the things that show up infamilies, right?

(10:04):
So so much, stayed up in that.
Very good yeah.

Exactly, and then a lot of the time so
when I'll recommend.
So I always do a six day dietdiary with people and so as much
as as it is for me to see, okay, not just what are they eating,
but what time are they eating,so I can really see the space,

(10:46):
how much water are they drinking, bowel movements, sleep and all
of that.
A lot of the times that helpsso-called wake them up, times
that, okay, now they're makingchange, that sometimes those old
scripts come up and at the sametime you know this is also what
they were used to and you knowit's all part of our nervous
system that they haven't reallythought about rewiring yet.
So when they're coming andsaying, okay, what can I do for
hormones?
I need to lose the weight, andthen it's this black, white
either, or it's like whoo,that's a lot of energy, so let's

(11:15):
rein it in.
So then again it kind of begsthe question these are also
generally, for the most part, Iyou know, generally healthy
people of how long has this beengoing on?
Let's see what else we canclear up.
And that's, you know, so-calledsay, peel the layers off the
onion when it comes to reallygetting into the core of the
issue.

Yeah, very good.
So a lot of that has to do withfood, with, like the usual
wellness things, right, food,water, exercise, sleep, the
timing of things, about movement, like all the basics.
Um, so how does mental healthmanifest in there, like the
brain or the neurotransmitters,like what is the what's the

(11:56):
what's the tie-in between thetwo there?

so what I'm also looking out for in
their diet diary is did theyfill everything out?
Did they return it?
Did they remember?
It's the same thing withsupplements.
You know.
There's a certain number ofpills in the bottle or servings,

(12:20):
whether it's powders or liquids.
So that's the other thing.
Are they also compliant?
So a lot of the times, orreally all of the time, it's not
that I slap the patient's wristfor not taking it or not doing
the diet diary, but I'm actuallymore curious as to what that
barrier is.

Yes.

And so is it a motivation issue, Is it
that we need to change things up?
And maybe they couldn't expressthat properly, which again is
going to go back to you know, isthere any fear around this?
What were they told as a kidperiod of time?

(13:00):
that I was working a lot withboundaries, with women, you know
with themselves with food,relationships, with life, you
know how to you know even createthat ideal schedule, and
sometimes that will come up.
But but when we think of themotivation piece, you know that
could also be if they're notgetting the right nutrients, the

(13:22):
right sleep and havingmanageable stress levels, are
they really able to make all theneurotransmitters that they
need, like the dopamine, thereward hormone, to feel good,
the serotonin, our happy hormone, that long lasting hormone?
Yeah, so these are kind of allthe pieces.
So again, if they'reoverstressed, overthinking,

(13:45):
trying to throw spaghetti on thewall, hoping that it sticks,
well, that stress is not onlygoing to mess with their
neurotransmitters but again it'sgoing to mess with their
hormones and that's going toaffect their brain as well.
So then, so then chances arethey're coming and saying, oh
yeah, well, I'm having somebrain fog, right, and it started
.
Then you kind of see this wholepicture start to complete and

(14:08):
we say, okay, great, what's the?
you know what's the biggestsupport you need right now.
And then that's where, yeah, wekind of go from there to say,
okay, do we need more counselingand a little more hand-holding,
or do we just really need toget those nutrients in?

So interesting that we could fix so many things
with food.
In and of itself, you know,that's just like such a concept
I need to get a farmer in hereor something so interesting,
right.
And also in the food I mean wemight eat.
But then I mean this is acomplete tangent.
We think we're eating healthy,but yet you know, a lot of times

(14:46):
the quality of the food andsome things might not be
indicated for your specific bodytype or just your own body, and
it's like, so you think you'redoing the right thing and then
yet you might be sabotaging someway or messing yourself up in
some way, right?

Right, well, and the other piece to
that is that it's not always weare what we eat, but we are what
we absorb, so, so throw thatinto the mix.
So then again, if they'restressed out and helmet and I
would have a lot of women comein and I wouldn't like it wasn't
SIBO or lactose intolerance,necessarily, or any of those

(15:23):
even more functional relateddiagnosis it just they're just
bloating constipation.
It's like, well, are theychewing their food?
How long has this been going on?
So a lot of the times.
We'd also need to work on theguts as well to make sure they
were, you know, even getting thenutrients in properly so so

(15:43):
much nuance here, right?

So then somebody comes in and they're sharing all
these different things thatmake them feel unwell.
They think they want to work ontheir hormones.
You might recognize or theymight share that they have, that
they can.
Psychotropics they might havesome mental health stuff going
on.
They could all be related toeach other, like they're all
building, you know, like thewhole wheel they are turning,
like everything's connected, andso they might be on medicine.

(16:10):
So what's your take onpsychotropics and how does that
play a role into the in thisconversation?
Like, how would you supportsomebody with that?

Of course.
So I remember one of mycolleagues.
He said, wait until the patientsays they'd like to get off or
they'd like to start titratingdown.
Because, interestingly, I mean,there are times, you know, I've
sometimes brought it up saying,hey, this is a possibility.
But again, let me know whenyou're comfortable, make sure

(16:40):
they have the right support.
But what I will say I havenoticed is that there's also
different reactions, because ifthey've been on, like for some
people, if they've been on onefor such a long time, they just
may say to me no, forget it,work around it, right.
Okay, we have lots of otherthings we could do.

(17:01):
Others I've seen have tried towean themselves off of it, which
usually does not go very well,because a lot of the times we
need to put stuff in place,optimize health, make sure
they're doing all the lifestylethings, and then maybe we could
start to touch the medications.
And so from there that's wherewhere can we get the right

(17:25):
things in place?
Again, make sure, especially,their vitamin d levels are
optimized right, and you know sotoo.
Maybe make sure it's thespringtime a little warmer, have
the weather be optimal as well,you know, should they decide to
start coming off of it that'sinteresting.

That makes complete sense to time it to the
seasons because, as we know,the winter is tougher on people
with mental health things, andthat's an interesting
observation too.
Maybe we start in the spring,right, and just make sure that
your vitamin D is up to par, andjust I'm sure there's other
things as well to go along withthat.
So how do you optimize?

(18:02):
So then, coming off themedicine, brain's not gonna go
woohoo, like what could do itall right.
It's like it's gonna haveeverything that it needs to
function well without themedicine.
Yeah, very good, that makessense.
So it sounds like your approachis to get people off at some
point if they're open andwilling.
That that would be yourpreferred thing.

Exactly, and I know there's also a lot
out there, you know, around thepsychiatry, the psychiatry field
, and I mean it's such a it is.
You know it is pretty big.
There's a lot of people whojust don't believe in any psych
meds at all, but I've also seenit make a difference in people.

(18:45):
So it's almost like I I don'twant to discount, you know just
somewhere really can help.
Um, on the other side of things, because we also have people
across all spectrums of health,is it truly the right thing for
everyone?
It may not be, because, as wesee with mental health, as I was
saying, it could be hormones,it could just be maybe they're

(19:08):
going through a rough patch andjust or just need some human
support type deal.
So it could be.
I feel like it could be a wholedifferent conversation, but a
lot of the times, kind of likewith birth control, for example,
psych meds were only meant tobe on for a short period of time
, and I feel like that's what alot of the times kind of like
with birth control, for example,psych meds were only meant to
be on for a short period of time, and I feel like that's what a

(19:28):
lot of people miss.
And then.
So all of a sudden, they're nowon the psych med longer and
longer.
It's not like they had theirneurotransmitters tested.
So I used to say too, psychmeds were part guessing game as
well.
So I used to say, too, psychmeds were part guessing game as
well.

(19:48):
So, especially when you startcombining them and you know,
because then you're talkingabout not just a hormone in the
person's body, but then these, alot of these psych meds are
acting on the receptors.
So you're working on both ends,sort of, in this unknown.
So, again, some are meant to befor a short period of time, but
more often than not people arejust kept on them for oh well,

(20:09):
let's see what happens.
And also, a lot of thesemedications deplete the same
nutrients that we need to makethe proper hormones and
neurotransmitters and balanceblood sugar, which could also be
a huge piece when it comes tomental health too.
So you know, again, workingwith all those different risk
factors and having the knowledgeof, yes, maybe some will be

(20:33):
helpful, but it's not going tobe a magic pill and you really
need to make sure that you havea lifestyle and food, as we
talked about, play and all theseother factors in place.

Wow, yes, you know that's one of my biggest
gripes with psychotropic medsand as a therapist, I say this
cautiously that's not my numberone go-to and I of course don't
discourage people that people dowhat they, what they feel that
is right for them and what theyneed.

(21:07):
But they go see primaryphysicians or GYNs and they're
prescribing them psychotropics.
You know, like, and, like yousaid, like they haven't measured
anything, like you're depressedhere.
Let me give you a prescriptionfor this.
Let me give you a prescriptionfor the other thing.
And even psychiatrists are notreally measuring what.
And even psychiatrists are notreally measuring what are they
measuring?
You know, like they're justprescribing and it's like, wow,
do you even know what's going on, not in this body?

(21:28):
And they have all the, all the.
There's all the things going on, and like they might be
counteracting with each other,depleting other parts of the
body.
That's not getting any supportwhatsoever.
You're just making the problemworse in the body.
That shows up in the, in thehead and then everywhere else in
life, right as as a result aswell.
Yeah, so this is one of my petpeeves, for sure.

So I'm glad that we're on the same page
here.

I think yeah, so like nothing against them if
it's done properly and that'swhat's needed.
Like if people are reallystruggling.
Of course that's your life'sbest, right?
So let's get your head abovewater.
Let's support you.
But let's get your head abovewater, let's support you, but
let's make sure that we do thatproperly so you're not shooting
yourself on the foot at the endof the day.
So you're making things worseat the end of the day, right?

Right, right.
And the great thing is too,there's so much research and
natural therapies out there,though I will caution there is a
lot of herb-ph, some you knowdoing things that you know that
people enjoy.

(22:29):
I mean that's, that's also partof being human, it's part of
functioning, it's.
You know, we're in these bodiesand have a lot of emotion, so
it's so important to also havethose outlets.

Absolutely.
Have those outlets, absolutely.
And those in the sleep, the sex, the play, the exercise all of
those things also impact all thebiochemistry.
So you're creating your ownthings that you need by engaging
in certain activities, right?
So then, playing with thatlifestyle, playing with the flow
for the day, or the habits, orthe things that, when you start

(23:03):
making the tweaks the goodnutrition, the supplements and
some of these other lifestyletweaks oh, now it's a whole
wellness perspective.
We're supporting all thedifferent things.
Now your body's functioningmuch better.
You're actually getting moremileage out of your body, more
like a better experience.
Beautiful, that's what we'reshooting for, okay.
So, if you well, I guess youkind of been answering that as

(23:27):
we're shooting for.
Okay, so if you Well, I guessyou kind of been answering that
as we were going that that ifpeople want to come off, it
needs to be done intentionally,and so do you want to say more
about that?
Like, what would that?

look like if people are ready, yeah.
So a lot of the times, you know, we'll talk about just what got
them on in the first place, andI've heard reasons as simple as
I don't know.
I was going through some stuffas a teenager and this was the
only solution and no onequestioned it teenager and this

(24:01):
was the only solution and no onequestioned it.
You know, yep, and I've alsoheard where, oh, maybe they've
been through some really toughstuff and just still need a
little bit of a buffer.
So I've definitely heard thespectrum.
You know why people have beenon it and for how long.
And then that's usually where Isay great, but we're still
going to take a look at yourcortisol levels and your
hormones.

(24:23):
Well, especially in this day andage, there's so many different
ways that are yes, we can bewell, but I also find you know
what?
Let's make sure we can rule outhormone imbalance as well.
You know what?
Let's make sure we can rule outhormone imbalance as well?
Just because estrogen kind ofacts like serotonin.
But even men and women tend tohave high estrogen, or what's
called estrogen dominance.
So, again, even though it couldact like our happy hormone

(24:47):
anytime, it's out of balance,it's not going to be acting so
happy.
Progesterone, which can actlike gaba, which is our calming
neurotransmitter, andprogesterone being a calming
hormone.
Well, if we have high estrogen,a lot of the times it's we have
low progesterone.
Um, this is our also too, youknow, if our body's constantly

(25:09):
in a fight or flight, you know,in this sped up response, the
last thing we're going to betaking a look at is digestion
and reproduction.
So the good news is those areone of the first things that I
start to look at to balancethings out.
So this is where I really liketo get a sense of what are our
cortisol levels are doing.
So cortisol it helps wake us upin the morning drops throughout

(25:31):
the day.
Then melatonin, our most potentendogenous antioxidant, rises
at night and then actuallythroughout the day.
The melatonin, our most potentendogenous antioxidant, rises at
night, and then actuallythroughout the night is when we
make most of our hormones,including insulin, thyroid,
estrogen, progesterone.
So this is why sleep is soimportant.
And then, so, if we get a senseof hey, what are your stress
levels doing?

(25:52):
Where are your hormones?
We know how to target wellnessa little bit, because it can be
a little tricky to, you know, doneurotransmitter testing.
You know they're already oncertain medications.

Right.

So that's where I say, okay, let's take a
look at what else is going on.
We could certainly help clearup the gut a little bit Again, I
do see a lot of gut stuff aswell and then just start getting
those nutrients in, where then,a lot of the times, I find
they're clearer, they'relistening to their body a little
more.
One of my favorite remedies,too, are different flower

(26:28):
essences.
Those are energy medicines, ahomeopathic.
There's hardly any substance inthere and it's not going to
interact with the psych meds,but it's a great tool that
literally they can have, whetherin their back pocket or in
their bag, but they can eitherdrop on their tongue or put in

(26:48):
their water bottle, and thesedifferent flower essences,
especially the Bach, remedies it.
You know, they could havemessages like feel secure and
being more confident.
Yeah, so these are thedifferent ways that I'll say hey
, you know what, we could stillcertainly work together, you

(27:10):
know.
And then getting their labsoptimized, so you know again,
making sure their blood sugar isgood, because that tends to be
a pretty common issue, both inhormone imbalances and a lot of
mental health.
Yes, yeah, so.
And then their thyroid is.
That's huge too.
It's like, are they reallytired and not feeling themselves

(27:31):
?
Or did no one test theirthyroid in how many years
themselves?
Or did no one test theirthyroid in how many years?
Right, which which helps ruleour metabolism.
So this is where you get a fullthyroid panel, an iron panel
taking a look at cholesterol,making sure everything's lining
up, and your typical red andwhite blood cells and
electrolytes, and then, ofcourse, vitamin d, b12, so we

(27:54):
could put some nutrients onthere.
A lot of times I like to dohomocysteines.
It's also a good, bothmetabolic marker and I could see
how they're metabolizing thingsas well.
And so these are the differentways.
That it doesn't mean, okay, youcome into my office and there
goes the medication, or itdoesn't have to be that either
or approach, but we're addingtools and we're adding knowledge

(28:19):
and we're adding here's howyour body is functioning right
now.
But here's the next steps towill to be a little better.

Right, that is so beautiful.
So they might be on medicine.
They might be thinking theymight come to you because
they're overweight, not feelinghappy with their weight, or just
how the belly pouch, or theycan't they can't lose their
weight, or just feeling femalethings, hormonal things, like
they might have all themenopause symptoms, whatever
things they might have going onRight, and then on the side like

(28:50):
, oh yeah, then there's mentalhealth symptoms going on as well
and it's like, well, not fornothing, and like, if we rule it
all down, all these organs areworking together.
So if one is off, a lot ofthese other things are going to
be off.
So it makes sense that thehormones are mimicking some of
those neurotransmitters, that ofcourse, it's going to make
sense that you're going to havebrain symptoms or mental health

(29:10):
conditions and symptoms and it'sgoing to drop in the gut too
and then just physically in yoursleep and your eating and your
energy and your sex drive andyour appetite, like you know the
different things right.
So very interesting.
Everything's interconnected.
So it makes sense to look andtest for all of those things and
what's out of whack, what'sdeficient, address it, get it

(29:34):
back online, get all the organstalking properly to each other
and aligning and supporting eachother, and then, voila, all of
a sudden, all of the symptomsstart going away and all of the
different organs.
That's what I'm hearing.
Is that right?

correct.
Yes, so you know we're taking amulti-pronged approach, you
know, multi-system, looking atmind, body and, of course, the
spirit are they, are they happy?
Are they doing what they want?
You know, do they have healthyrelationships, which is so
important?
Because a lot of the times Ifind, or what I'll see, is maybe

(30:06):
, if one partner wants to gethealthy, the other partner may
may be kind of side eyeing themlike what are you, you doing, or
may find it, or may find itintimidating.
So it's not uncommon for thatto happen as well.
So this is also, too, where Iusually counsel people as far as
, yeah, just just be mindful ofwho you hang out around, or

(30:29):
maybe that you know that club orthat outdoor activity with a
group of people would actuallybe beneficial.

So, yeah, there's again a couple of different
approaches.
You know that's beautiful,adding that spiritual component
to that, in that there is otherthings at play, not just this
body or this organ, right, orjust my thoughts and my emotions
.
There's other things also thatimpact again everything, and so

(31:00):
the relationships, the interests, the activities, how we use our
time and what things weparticipate in and who with.
How are they impacting thingstoo?
I love what you said earlier,like what we absorb, right.
So it's not just environmentaltaxing and in, you know, in the
air or in the water or in thefood like, or things that we

(31:21):
just might absorb in differentways, that we don't even know
that we're ingesting or takingin, but just energetically also.
I'm hearing you might beabsorbing other things too,
right.
Just like when people have badvibes, you know, like you don't
feel so good after you hang outwith them.
There's a reason for that, sowell, there's a lot of different

(31:41):
reasons, but you know, for thesake of this conversation, for
the most part, yeah, yeah.
So what else about spirituality?
So you mentioned a few thingsin terms of the activities and
how to resource oneself, andjust things that give us
pleasure and that feel good.
How else can the spiritualityangle support the health and
wellness journey, especiallywhen it comes to mental health?

So I have found more meditative type
activities.
So meditation, yoga, is a bigone.
I find that such a great way ofbeing aware of your breath and
moving at the same time.
And, if you didn't know,there's different types of yoga.

And.

I remember , you know, many years ago I was
a competitive gymnast, so I wasalways on that go, go, go.
It took me a lot of tries toreally get into yoga.
So if anyone can resonate, it'snot just about oh, oh, just sit
there and breathe and do a fewmovements, it's a thing.
it's a bit of a workout for themind and for the body, might I

(32:43):
just add, depends on which yes,especially if it's yeah,
especially if it's the powervinyasa or even a more vinyasa
type class 103 degrees, to addthe heat to that one yep, done
that too yes, yes right, and soI would say, yeah, the
meditation, the vinyasa, thoseare, you know just, or yoga in

(33:04):
general, those are great placesto start and and the nice thing
is now they're definitely moremainstream.
um, getting outside, puttingyour feet in the dirt, so called
grounding grounding, so that'sgoing to be so important to help
change some of those electronsin our body.
Just, you know again, help usstay grounded, stay more Zen,

(33:26):
just getting outside, being inthe natural sunlight, being out
in nature.

You just journal.

it yeah, journaling, artwork, coloring,
coloring.
They now have adult coloringbooks yes, I know, and then?
Yes, and the big question,which you may be familiar with
too, is what did you like to doas a kid?

go back to that yep, very pretty.
So these are things that couldbe added to the self-love
practice or self-care practice,right?
So it could be warping into thedaily routine, into creating
healthier wellness, self-love,connecting points during the day

(34:12):
or habits during the day orhabits.
So if we take it to the nextlevel here, would you add any
metaphysical aspects to thespirituality angle?
Like what else would you throwin here?
Like what might impact mentalhealth from that angle, if
anything to your knowledge?

so one of the things I really like is
sound healing.
We I mean we are vibrationalbeings at the end of the day,
different bowls have differenttunes or different healing
properties, I should say.
But yes, they have differenttunes too, but they do, you know
, hit different organs for thesystem as well.

(34:52):
But I have found it just fromsome of just the research, the
knowledge behind it, how they'remade, and then usually during
sound baths, the person has achance to relax.
So it's like, even if you can'talways relax during the day,
here's literally maybe a halfhour or an hour you can carve

(35:13):
out and just receive.
So that's a big one too oh, Ilove that that's right.

So there's a lot of different modalities and
where we could address thespiritual body of our body right
.
So we are addressing thephysical, we are addressing the
mental, we're addressing theemotional.
That's why not address thespiritual too.
Like that gets lost intranslation a lot of the time
and a lot of these practicessupport that.
So I love that and the soundbath.

(35:41):
That's terrific to add to thisconversation.
Any other ideas for morealternative wellness spiritual
practices that could be added tothis conversation that would
help with the gut, the hormones,the brain, you know, the sex
organs all of the organs.

Yeah, so you know again, usually, while I
am very well-versed insupplements or yeah, and as far
as like picking and choosing forthe patient, so that's, you
know, certainly my forte andwhether I'll choose a flower
essence for them or I'll say youknow what, see what resonates

(36:20):
with you, you know you can go onand you know, pick a few.
There are times, again,depending on the patient,
especially if they tend to be alittle more sensitive, you know,
just sensitive to people'senergy, maybe being out there
and need a little help grounding, I'll recommend certain
crystals to people as well.
I know the tiger's eye bracelethas become very popular.
I've actually seen that onquite a number of people

(36:41):
nowadays.
So for anyone out there,tiger's eye really good for the
solar plexus, which is the bellyarea, so it can help with some
gut stuff and then confidence.
So that's really what it's foras well, helping with a bit of
that shield and that protection.

Very nice, you know.
Since you brought up thechakras, can you just for people
who might not be very familiarwith this concept, like what are
the chakras, what's the conceptof the chakras, what are they
and what organs might they berelated to?
So people know if like, oh, Ihave, I have this pain right

(37:24):
here.
What chakra is that?
You know, and what can we?
How can we address it from thatangle as well?

Whatever, whatever group, of symptoms they
might have, of course?
Great question.
So yeah, so the chakras aretheir energy centers that travel
along the spine.
So we have the root chakra,which circles in red, so it's
sort of like a rainbow of colorsthat go from the base of the
spine upwards.
However, in the Indiantradition they also know that

(37:48):
there's over a hundred of them,like we have many chakras
throughout the body, through ourhands, our feet and all of that
.
But for these purposes, what weneed to know is so there's the
root chakra that's at the verybase of the spine, and this is
our security, this is ourgrounding, the I am like you
know, really just knowing who weare.
So that vibrates in red.

(38:10):
Then shortly up around ourreproductive organs, it radiates
orange.
So this is also water, so thisis the emotional piece.
So this is where dancing andmovement and exercise can really
come in, you know, especiallyfor men and women too, and

(38:30):
helping reclaim.
They reclaim their power,reclaim their health and, you
know, to help get back intotheir bodies A little bit above,
kind of around the belly button, a little bit above that.
So that's where I was talkingabout the solar plexus, which is
yellow, which is a lot aboutconfidence.
So, if we think about it, andthen what are we digesting?

(38:51):
So we're also not.
We're kind of out in the worldlike, oh my god, where do we go?
Well, that's going to correlateto.
Well, what's our gut doing?
As well, our gut may be actingup.
So we do tend to see somecorrelations between both the
spiritual and the physical sobefore you keep going up the
ladder there.

So with the root chakra, what would be some
physical ailments that peoplemight find so like?
What conditions or what organsmight be off or what pains might
people have that might indicatethat the root chakra, the
energy there, might be a littleout of whack or that they might
need some support thereemotionally.
What might be some of theemotional things that might

(39:31):
happen around that one?

Yeah, to happen around that one.
Yeah, so physically, so it'slow back pain, sciatica, so
tends to be more.
Yeah, literally like the lowerissues, some of the nerves and
everything is a lot of thosenerve roots come out from the
base of the spine.
Um, emotionally they may justnot feel great with where they
are.

Right.

So, yeah, yeah, they may just feel a
little little unbalanced, whichagain is then going to come into
the sacral chakra of well then,how will they, oh my god, how
are they going to achievebalance?
Well, do they need to controleverything?
So then this is where we maysee okay, this, as I was saying
earlier, that black, whiteeither, or, oh my god.

(40:14):
Then they have all hands ondeck and here, look at all these
supplements I'm taking, and Isay, great, you know, and
actually my response too isbecause I I have had patients
bring me many supplements and Isay, great, let me take a look
at the dose, we'll max out whatyou have have.
Maybe put stuff on the backburner and create a plan.

(40:36):
How does that sound?
And then they could breatheagain, yeah, and then yeah, and
then that comes into the solarplexus of that.
Oh, who we are at confidence youknow and how we feel about
ourselves so.

So let's go back to the second one for a second.
So with a sacral chakra.
Um, that's so.
The first one is a root one.
It's called the number onechakra maybe the root chakra is
red and it shows up with bodylower body pains.
And it shows up emotionally asmaybe feeling insecure, not safe

(41:14):
orrusting floor issues that'sgood right.
Pelvic floor issues very nice,um, and emotionally, like I said
, all those things, um, for thesacral one it might show up
controlling and over functioningand like that kind of stuff I'm
hearing.
And what kind of physicalailments might they have when

(41:36):
that one is a little off?

hormonal imbalances.
So this could be weight um on,you know, again like estrogen
dominance, so, or like menlosing their hair because that's
also part of like theirtestosterone, maybe going into a
more potent form oftestosterone with women because,
again like hormonal imbalances,they may have the mood changes

(42:00):
and the weight gain and themissed periods or the too long
periods or the prolonged ones.
So a lot, a lot of themenstrual cycle and then libido
is going to be in there as well.

Right, right, right, very good.
I think that also creativity ispart of this chakra, right?
So maybe people feeling stuckor unmotivated Is that right?
I'm not sure if I'm combiningsome of them.

Well, and what's interesting is that they
all sort of work and can weavetogether in their own way, but
it's true.
I mean, one of the great waysto express, you know the sacral
chakra to help heal it, is tomove your hips, get going, get
dancing.

Right so so that's kind of a solution to
help with the sacral chakra.
Any solutions for the root one?

Well, so the root one is getting out in
nature getting your basics in.

Oh, I love it, okay.

Yeah, yeah .

Very cool.
So I'm seeing a table now,right, so you, so you have the,
you have the root that, you havethe chakra, you have the
emotional, you have the physical, you have the solution.
Okay, Very nice.
So so we have cover all thosespaces for the root one.
We cover all those spaces forthe root one, we cover all those
spaces for the sacral one.
So keep going with the, withthe solar plexus.

So the gut , uh, confidence and, to an
extent, the adrenals as well.
So the adrenals, which are thetwo little glands that sit on
top of the kidneys, which are soimportant for our sex hormones,
salt water balance and cortisol, as well as our adrenaline.
So, yes, and it's interesting,because the adrenals can be,

(43:48):
some say sacral, some say solarplexus.

Right, I was wondering.
Interesting, yeah, yeah, yeah,cool.
So those are the body partsthat get affected by that chakra
?
What about emotionally, howthat might show up?

Dr. Serena Goldstei (44:02):
Emotionally .
Maybe you're a little too timidand it's one of those.
I feel like usually the personknows when they're maybe not
stepping into their full powerand this could just be, you know
, the person that wants to juststay in the back of an exercise
class, for example, and hey, youknow, maybe if they just really

(44:23):
want to and that's their thing,like great, have at it.
But where I'm sharing is morefrom the intention side.
Or oh, can they really do this,can they?
Or maybe there's a mountainthey want to climb?
Oh, do they have the strengthto do that for?

example, like they're holding themselves back
without kind of thing.
Very good, yes, okay, lovely.
So let's keep going at thatfinal column.
What's the next one?

of course, so the next one is the heart
chakra.
So this one is what's said tohelp connect the more spiritual,
what's, you know, the chakrasabove the heart to the one, to
the more physical which tends tobe below the heart.
So the heart, sort of thatmidpoint.
And so the heart chakra, yes,it's about love, but it's also

(45:13):
about love for oneself, it'srelationships, it's literally
being from the heart yeah, andso that one is colored green and
so with, with when there is anissue with that one.

What kind of body symptoms or health issues?
What might somebody have?

oh, people could be closed off.
Heart disease issues, anythingreally under that spectrum, um,
but this is, you know, it'sfunny.
The first thing I thought of,too, was body language.
You know, people start crossingtheir arms, leaning back.
It's like they're literallytrying to shield something right

(45:56):
so protected, guarded, exactlycool.

Um.
So those are the physicalsymptoms and what would be some
solutions or suggestions forpeople who might find that that
this one might be the one that'sgetting them a little bit, yeah
well, interestingly, the heartchakra can also be represented
by the color pink, so people canwear green shirts or even pink

(46:27):
shirts that you know to helplike as a color therapy to help
heal the heart chakra.

Yeah, and animals are fantastic for this,
because animals, you knowthey're unconditional love.
So just yeah, being able to hugthem you, you know, have them
slobber all over you, you know,unless you get a really friendly
cat to do that that's sointeresting.

Can I just share a quick little, little tangent
side note here?
Um, I have an elderly dog and Icould.
This has been the theme of mylife recently.
So if anybody who's heard metalk about my dog, I apologize
if I'm boring you to death.
So he's 15 and a half and he'sgiving me a lot, a lot of work.
So keep me up at night.

(47:08):
During the day there areaccidents, so it's just
physically intensive work andthen emotional and lack of sleep
, all that thing.
So he's like really having animpact on me and this morning I
had the awareness of.
I was like I was cleaning himand whatever.
And then I had this this he'srubbing against my leg, like,
leaning his head against my leg,and I'm going to start crying

(47:29):
and he's in and I felt from himthe love and I was like you know
, the more that I take care ofthis dog, the more that I love
him, you know.
So that came to me.
That's interesting, that'scoming up now.
So, totally, when you're you'reaware of animals, you know that
like I don't consider myself ananimal person, but just taking

(47:50):
care of him it just feels likeit's opening up my heart more
and more how much devotion Ihave for this animal, making
sure that he's okay.
You know as much of it's allhe's taking on me.
And it's like it's aninteresting stretch for me, a
growth place for me, right, thatyou could give this much and
feel depleted in some waysbecause of how much is being

(48:12):
given, but by the same token,I'm so replenished and nourished
by the connection that it feelslike the connection is growing
more and more by the minute.
It's such an interestingexperience.
I'm sure that animal lovers andpeople who have had a lot of
pets could rest relate to this.
Um, but just yeah, so we coulduse our animals for this

(48:33):
particular piece of the work.
Right, if I heart needs opening, get yourself a pet they will
help you with that.

There you go.

Yep, exactly so good, so thank, thank you for
that reminder, of course so goodyes, beautiful.
And so if we keep moving atthat channel, and that's its
final core, what's the next?

uh chakra next one is the throat chakra,
so that's represented by thecolor blue and, interestingly,
yes, it's about speaking, butit's also about listening as
well right, we forget about thatpart of it yeah, what's the
joke?
We have two ears and one mouthoh, that's so interesting.

I love that, you know I.
It's interesting when I hearpeople say I'm a great
communicator and there was nopause for somebody else to get
one sentence in there.
That is not being a greatcommunicator, you're just an
overtalker, right, or whateverthe word is for that.
But yeah, so the give and take,right.
That's like that's the goodcommunication part there.

Right, right, yeah, yeah.
So a lot of times this may showup as thyroid related issues,
and actually the sacral chakraand the thyroid and the throat
chakra too, are prettyinterconnected.
We need that creativity.
Then we could speak more, wefeel more free, you know, along
those lines.
So yeah.

(49:56):
So a lot of thyroid concernsmay show up with the throat
chakra.

Right, very good, you know, I've had people who
always seem to have a sorethroat or like, just like
infections that appear likebreathing things or just
congestions and coughing, like,just like those kind of viruses
that kind of seem to affecthaving a voice right, laryngitis
right.
Does that fit, does that makesense?

(50:23):
I would belong here.

I'd say, in a way, one of the things I
thought about potentially fromthe more physical side was I
would also be looking at theirstress levels to see you know,
okay, I'm like wait.
Well, actually, what's going onwith their immune system?

That's true, right, you know I'm like wait.

Well, actually, what's going on with
their immune system?

That's true right .
And you know, maybe some ofthose chakras too.
Which chakra is in charge ofthe immune system?

So I would say, well, I first thought of
the adrenal.
So again that kind of bordersbetween solar and sacral Right,
right, right.

Okay, interesting Good.

Very good yeah.

And so for the throat, then, what might be some
solutions or offerings that wemight have to help deal with any
blockages there or anymanifestations there?

of course I say to say what you want to
say, especially for women.
You know, if it comes to, youknow, let's say, someone offers
you something, it's more thanokay to say no, thank you, just
saying, speaking your truth.
You know which could also justbe, yeah, speaking from the
heart, speaking honestly, youknow, not always pushing things

(51:34):
down, so to speak, see, and, ofcourse, listening you.
You know being able to listenand really be engaged, and you
know what other people aresaying as well beautiful, okay,
good, that makes sense, verynice, okay.

And then we're almost there.

Now we're going to the sixth one, which is
yes, I was at the third eyeright yeah, and so this is too
where I you know, I'm aware thatyou know anxiety, depression,
you know a lot of the gettingcaught in our head can really be
a blockage to some of these.
So this is sort of where youknow where we are looking with

(52:11):
our intuition.
Or when people say the thirdeye, you know it's not just the
physical of what we see, butit's what are we sensing?
What's the energy in the roomtype deal?

right, yeah, so if there are any imbalances in
the energies here, what might besome symptoms?

oh, it could.
It could honestly be as simpleas people getting caught in
their head, like even on theday-to-day wait.
What do I do next?
Right, you know, it doesn'talways have to be a specific
diagnosis, but this could alwaysbe the.
You know, uh, was it?
Oh yeah, like I got all thesesupplements for this, and then

(52:52):
if I need to take this for the,you know, it's the overthinking,
the, the overanalyzing over thefill in the blank.

Yeah.

Exactly, exactly.

Ah, very nice.
And so that might have this thefeel of micromanaging the
partner of helicopter, parenting, ocd, depression, anxiety, like
all, just like just being in,like all kind of eluded and
confused and like trippingyourself up, kind of like
overdoing it.

(53:23):
Love it, yes, very nice.
So what might be some things tocounter that?

Yoga, yoga , sound healing, really anywhere
that it's, you can share, thator not.
Like your body doesn't alwayshave to be moving, the mind
doesn't always have to be moving, which I will say, on the flip
side, is nice.
With yoga, like, you'll stillget the body moving, potentially
as a distraction, but you canalso come back within right.

(53:54):
So, like where vinyasa is onebreath to one pose, it actually
can serve a bit of a distraction.
But let's say, if you're doingsound healing or a hatha yoga or
some of the slower ones, or ayin, then it may actually be a
little more challenging,interestingly, because you do
need to stay in a posture for alittle longer.

(54:15):
But these are ways that, yeah,we could certainly train the
mind right.

So, even though you're using your body for the
poses and you're focusing on thebreathing and breathing is also
physical but because you haveto focus, you're quiet in the
mind and that's part of likethat release there, love it very
, very nice.
Um, you know, I'm thinking someother, some other physical,

(54:42):
what might appear to be physical, but that would benefit all of
these things that arealternative modalities, like
acupuncture, or, you know,recently I came across what's it
called um, um sensorydeprivation tank.
That way you just float.

(55:03):
You know, recently.

I came across what's it called Sensory
deprivation tank.

That way you just float.
Oh right, yeah, those floatingtanks, that's on my list of
things to try.

Okay, yeah , those are great.

Reiki is also great.

So Reiki, I believe they don't touch you
in reiki, right, right, um, butit's just more of a sense of,
yeah, they're just helping movethe energy, they're holding
space you could just be thereyeah, so any modalities that
kind of help the body releasethe nervous system, kind of let

(55:35):
go and just kind of soothe right.

So breathing techniques, all kinds of
different meditation techniques,the grounding, like you said,
putting your feet outside on thegrass and like that kind of
stuff.
I'm thinking also havening, Idon't know if you're familiar
where you just go like this ohgreat, not rubbing up and down

(55:58):
your arms, but rather put forthose of you who are not
watching the video, who are justlistening putting your arms,
rubbing your arms down orcaressing down.
Rubbing down, not up and down,your body, your chest, your legs
, your face, and you'recaressing down the nervous
system registers that as asoothing thing for some reason I
don't know the biology behindthat, um, but so that's supposed

(56:20):
to be really good for foractivating the parasympathetic
nervous system and releasing orrelaxing the the nervous system.
So just like a soothingtechnique and you activate all
the healing properties of theparasympathetic and the
relaxation parts.
So that's something else, soanything to support the body
like, ah right, let it go alittle bit and just kind of like

(56:44):
moving the energy.

I love it very good I, I think so much of
what we talked about.
I just thought of, too, goingto a comedy club totally gets
you out of your head and you getto be entertained.

Totally.
I mean, if we can get more intothe practical, of course.
Dancing, sports, regularexercising, whatever people like
to do, for sure, playing aroundwith the kids, cuddling up and
wrestling, playing with theanimals, like all those things
too.
First of all, your partner,right, right, lovely, okay.
So let's go for the last chakraand we're almost out of time
here, so let's kind of startwrapping this up, okay so the

(57:20):
last chakra is the crown chakra.

So where the third eye is purple in color
, the crown tends to be, I wantto say, a light, very light
purple, to look clear.
And this is, where, is this,our source of inspiration?
So, again, this is where shouldwe be able to keep sitting with
ourselves?
You know, again, we could moveour body a little bit and

(57:43):
sometimes our best ideas comefrom when we are moving our body
.
That's part of where it filtersthrough is the crown chakra,
which is right on the top of thehead lovely.

So if people are having a challenge with the
energy up there, how might thatmight affect manifest in any
physical conditions or illnesses?

Yeah, so I would say it'd be pretty
similar to the third eye whereyou know they're just not really
able to get the ideas.
They're just sort of in this.
Okay, let me just sit and waitfor the you, for the idea to the
idea to pop in.
Yeah, it's.
You know, when people talkabout being blocked, maybe brain

(58:24):
fogged, um, just not feelinglike themselves, headaches, yes,
oh, headaches.
Or headaches, migraines, yeah,sleep would be pretty.
Sleep issues would beassociated with that.
It can be.
I would say it depends.
I would say sleep is more ofthe lower chakras.
Oh, interesting, yeah, justbecause you know you're falling

(58:48):
asleep, you want to feel safe?
oh, okay, right, right, you knowit's a thought but it's true,
because then, on the flip side,if someone can't fall asleep
because their mind is justconstantly going, that's what I
was thinking.
Exactly.
Yeah, that it could certainlybe.
You know, one of the higherchakras.

Yeah, very interesting, lovely, good, and
then, as a solution, support forthat.

Solutions will kind of be similar to the
third eye and some of the othersis just to be able to sit with
yourself.
I would say, and again I wouldsay, reiki is a great one.
Sound healing is fantasticanywhere, any practice that you
can just know, that you can bein your body but also have

(59:34):
divine inspiration and kind ofbalance.
You know and balance those two.
So again, these could be someof those more physical practices
or things like sound healing,chanting, which is also good for
the throat chakra, but in thosemore high vibrational
environments as well.

Oh, very nice, Right?
So I'm thinking stillness too,it's interesting because it's
counter the movement, right.
But maybe stillness of the mind, not necessarily so much the
body or both, depends on whatmight serve.
But when we get quiet, if westop with the social media and
the scrolling and the swipingand the binging, netflix and

(01:00:15):
like all of the noise, noise,noise, you know, like if you
could just kind of chill out fora second, go look at the stars,
go sit in the sun, go look atthe birds, like just kind of
like be in nature and just kindof like be like that inspiration
might come, like you couldactually listen, hear something
else or sense something else.
So you're open for thatinspiration.

(01:00:37):
The ideas are supposed to.
Just all this stuff comes inand you can't even hear yourself
think, right, you don't evenknow what you're thinking
exactly yep definitely very,very nice, very cool.
So, in all, let's try to see ifwe could tie it all together
right, because that was alengthy conversation around the

(01:00:57):
chakras.
So how will we tie thatawareness and information base
about the chakras to thephysical well-being and the
mental well-being?
How can we kind of put a bow onthat piece?

Dr. Serena Goldstein (01:01:10):
Yeah, so I believe there's ways that the
chakras represent so much ofthat mental, emotional.
The chakras represent so muchof that mental, emotional and
also physical and spiritual.
And, as we talked a lot aboutmental health, it's not just
about neurotransmitters, it'snot just about behavior, but
it's these different aspectsthat are intertwined that the

(01:01:31):
chakras are such a nice example,too, of different aspects that
people can also research alittle further, whether they
want to take it into crystals orclothes or other foods, or, you
know, different practices.
There's foods you can eat forthe chakras.
You can really, you can reallygo at it.
And so you know there's so manydifferent ways in thinking of,

(01:01:55):
when thinking when it comes towellness.
That, again, when we go downthe certain risk factors, it's
not, you know, it's not justokay.
A couple of them, and here's aprescription it's okay.
Where's the person out?
Where's their belief system?
Can they expand their mind?
Do they even want to?
And then where do we go fromthere?

Emma Viglucci (01:02:16):
Right, very good.
So if these ideas are new tosomebody, because if people are
not familiar with the ideas ofchakras or energy bundles or the
you know just just this side ofthings, and they might be stuck
a little bit in in the pills,the pills, all the pills, right,
and just overdoing all of thepills, or just overdoing it one

(01:02:38):
particular angle, how can weintroduce them to?
There's so much more that meetsthe eyes and that impacts
everything, and it might be hardto stretch into that at first,
but how can we embrace otherthings too, just to have our own
back in different ways?

I would say start where you're
comfortable.
If where you're comfortable ismostly supplements and maybe
some flower essences becausesometimes that's more energy
medicine, that could even be alittle esoteric, Right Then fine
, we start there.
If it's mostly food you want tostart with, fantastic.
As I said, I go through a lotof diet diaries.

Right.

If you do want to start moving into
shoppers, then I would actuallyrecommend going to a library.
Going to a library or a BarnesNoble where at least you have a
set amount of books and you'renot scouring thousands of pages
off Google While then gettingfatigued from the technology at

(01:03:45):
the same time.
So at least a book you can sitdown with.
Um, yeah, I mean I'm blankingon some authors, but again,
books will give you a finite youknow amount to look at again,
again, versus how many Googlepages.

Right Contain the amount of like you get those
that you need to exploresomething.

Oh, I love that Very good.

So as a journey, we have all the physical, like
we were saying, the physical,the mental, this emotional, this
spiritual.
We're just covering all of thebases here.
Any last minute thoughts as tohow to be open to integrating or

(01:04:33):
or addressing all four bodies.
And there's all the bodies, butlike we'll focus on these for
for this conversation, peopleare like what, what is going on
right now?
I thought I had one body, butso, yeah, you know what's like a
thought, like a parting thought, for just kind of being open to
working all the angles andhaving supporting ourselves the

(01:04:55):
best that we can and nourishingourselves the best that we can.

Well, I like how you said it is that
being open.
Maybe if chakras don't resonatefor you but sound healing got
some wheels turning, well thendon't worry about going to the
bookstore for chakras and all ofthat quite yet, and maybe just
find a sound healing class.
Maybe Reiki sounded reallyinteresting?
Fantastic, go, try, try it.

(01:05:20):
Maybe you just really want tostick with pills and that's your
mo.
Great, we have a.
There's so many different wayswe can go because, even though
we're addressing the physicalbody, we're still going to be
addressing the mental, emotionaland ultimately, yes, that
divine wisdom and how we thinkabout ourselves, and all that

(01:05:41):
good stuff beautiful, very, verynice.

Um, so I will add there that to to be on on a
health and wellness journey likethis and to try to take care of
ourselves in all the good ways,in all the different ways,
takes courage, and I commendpeople for wanting to take care
of themselves and being open todoing in different ways, not to

(01:06:08):
just do it one particular wayand getting stuck there.
It's not really serving them,but they don't want to try
different ways.
They keep doing the same thingover and over and it's not
really working it.
It takes courage to exploredifferent things, and so kudos
to those people and to havecompassion.
Right, I think that you hadthat as a thought that you
wanted to offer, so, likeanything with that that you want

(01:06:29):
to use as parting words, yeah,I I believe that's a great point
is having compassion foryourself.

The healing journey is not linear,
by any means Right.
It can sometimes feel like adoozy, but it can sometimes be
very rewarding.
And that's what it is.
It's a journey, it's being ableto constantly know ourselves
and, you know, try all thesedifferent modalities, which
isn't it fantastic.
On the flip side, we do have somany modalities and so many

(01:07:00):
different ways of healing thatare now out there.

Totally so no judgment for ourselves if we're
bumping around a little bitright Just with love, compassion
and grace and ease.
This is our second conversationrecorded.
We had others but so gratefulfor you and your resourcefulness
and how much wisdom and justyumminess you bring and anybody

(01:07:24):
who's lucky to work with you,who chooses to work with you, I
know that they will get a lotfor all of the bodies and for
all of the ways and all of thethings.
So thank you so much for beingyou and for sharing yourself
with me and the audience, and Ireally appreciate you.

And thank you so much for having me.

Of course, of course, and to the audience
until the next one.
Bye.

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