Relationship Experiential Awareness for Repairing, Connecting and Relating Beyond Words w/ Carmela Bennett (Ep.25)

Episode Transcript
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Emma Viglucci (00:00):
Hello, lovelies, welcome to another episode.
I am so excited for today'stopic and guest.
I speak with Carmela Bennett, apsychotherapist specializing in
trauma, and we talk aboutsomatic repair, which has two
uses.
One is to repair when you'reeither misaligned or arguing, or

(00:23):
having a fight or disagreeingwith your partner and you just
can't seem to get on the samepage and you keep missing each
other.
And so the approach helps youtune back in, reconnect, realign
so that you can get past themoment and there's a repair
moment in that.
It's healing, it gets you backon the same page and it helps

(00:47):
you feel more connected.
There is repair in that, thereis healing in that.
And then, secondly, you don'tnecessarily need to be having a
tough moment, but you could usethis in other ways, as practices
to enrich your relationship.
We give a lot of suggestionsand different ideas for how to
do that, your relationship.
We give a lot of suggestionsand different ideas for how to

(01:08):
do that so you can increase yourconnection, deepen your
connection, create moremeaningful interactions and just
deepen your intimacy all aroundwith your partner.
Stay tuned, you're in for atreat.
Let me read you her bio andthen we'll say hello to Carmela.
Carmela Bennett has been apsychotherapist for the past 25
years and maintained a privatepractice for individuals,

(01:29):
couples and families in New YorkCity since 2016.
She has a doctorate inleadership, a master's in
marriage and family counseling,somatic experiencing training
and holds a CASAC addictionspecialist certification.
She blends years of trainingand experience with holistic,
somatic, experiential andpsychodynamic modalities and

(01:49):
specializes in working withrelationships, addictions,
anxiety disorders, ptsd anddevelopmental trauma treatment
using somatic experiencing.
Her lifelong participation inexpressive arts, especially
dance and movement, inspiresintegrating creativity,
imagination.
Dance and movement inspiresintegrating creativity,
imagination and intuition intoall aspects of her life and work
.
Carmela also integrates herknowledge and experience in

(02:13):
human development and potentialto coach and consult
internationally with executives,organizations and universities,
seeking to build strategicleadership and create innovative
and mindful solutions to globalcomplex workplace initiatives.
She considers our basic humanneed for connection and
individual purpose a fundamentalresource for meaningful change.

(02:33):
Without further ado, let's sayhello to Carmela.
Hello Carmela, how are you?

Carmela Bennett (02:40):
today I'm fine, great, actually, I'm looking
forward to this conversation.

So am I.
This is a beautiful topic and Ilove the information that you
share with me when we firstspoke, and so I think that the
audience is going to reallybenefit from your insights and
your wisdom and your practice.
Like what we're going to offertoday is going to be really
beautiful, so I'm really lookingforward to it.
And we're going to be talkingabout somatic repair, and so

(03:07):
what the heck is that?
What is somatic repair and whoneeds to use it and for what
reasons?

So somatic repair is a kind of that's an
umbrella term in a way, right,and it incorporates a lot of
concepts but also actualpractices, right?
So people who do embodied work,like a therapist, or they have
some kind of body work orsomatic therapy, are involved in

(03:35):
somatic repair, right.
So somatic repair can be inner,like interpersonal, right.
So we repair from the insideout, right, and that doesn't
just take place in our head.
Right, and we kind of know this, you know, and practitioners
know it right, we all know it,and even more and more clients,
our patients, sort of know itright, but they also experience

(03:58):
it.
So, framing it as I thinksomatic repair probably sounds a
little bit different, but it'saddressing things that have
already been talked about andprobably already practiced some.
So what it means in terms ofinner, on the inside right, is
the healing that we are engagedin, when we're really feeling

(04:20):
into the intense emotions thatcan come up when we're healing
from a trauma or even justworking with anxiety or
depression.
So it's that inner work andit's really connecting with the
sensations and what's happeningin the body, not just talking
about the interpretation of it,the story of it.

(04:42):
Right, that's the inner thatwe're talking about, and then
interpersonal, when we'reworking with relationships,
which is what you work with,right, yeah, we're really um,
educating, number one educatingand also having our clients
experience what they're, what'salready actually happening
between them.
Right, because what happens in arelationship is so much about

(05:05):
sensing.
Right, we focus on the wordsand, like, as, as therapists,
sometimes we focus on oh, let'slearn communication skills super
important, but was it evenwithout the words?
And when I ask this question topatients, they say, oh, of
course.
I say, well, you sense yourpartner, right, you know before

(05:27):
they're going to say something,or you, right, or you sense,
like, when they say something,but they actually mean something
else.
You sense when they're hurt,you sense when they're angry.
You're sensing all this stuffright between your partner,
without the words, right, so therepair, what we can help, um,

(05:50):
our clients work with in asession, right, is what are you
sensing right here, now, what'sin this space, here that's kind
of being sensed, but not maybeum expressed, and um, if it's
hurt feelings or if it's anger,all these things like that we

(06:10):
work with with a as therapistsand as as the as the patient
right it's like let's work withthat and let's work with like,
hey, what is?
and also there's a third party,right?
What are we sensing, right?
Right, because we are, and sowe have the advantage of being

(06:33):
that observer self that also hasa felt body, like okay, you're
telling me you feel really greatabout this.
I don't feel that at all.

Right, you know that's so interesting, carmela.
I love that you mentioned that.
You added that in there,because I mean, we know just,
we're using our own bodies insession, right, like if we're
good therapists and we couldsense and know and read with our
own bodies.
It's not just the words thatthe clients are saying, but
we're using all of ourselves inthe interactions.
So sometimes it looks likewe're just hanging out in

(07:08):
therapy but we're doing so muchmore than just chatting, right,
and very, very, very interestingthat you mentioned that.
So our bodies are informing ustoo of what's happening in the
session and between the partners, so good.

Yeah, so, as we know, as therapists work with
couples, right, and repair alsohappens between the therapist
and client, Right, that's partof the process, right?
So when someone can tolerate,like identify and tolerate
what's happening, I'm so angryat you for saying that, or I'm

(07:42):
so sad, or I feel so ashamed, orwhatever, it is right, yeah,
and as a therapist, we canactually that's here now and
there's a there's a felt senseof every emotion.
Yeah, so the repair is we canfeel it and then we can actually
look.
It's a beautiful thing actuallywhen, when I have two, a couple

(08:04):
, turn towards each other orlike hey, feel into the space
between you, when you feel inthe space, and some in the
beginning they'll say like Idon't know, like what's this
space, but it makes sense reallyquickly.
Yeah, yes, yes, very good.

so I love how you're defining this and you're
also, but it makes sense reallyquickly.
Yeah, yes, yes, very good.
So I love how you're definingthis and you're also describing
it and you're also givingexamples.
So somatic means in the bodyright and the sensing, and it's
in what we're experiencing andrepair.
So we're not just talking withwords or apologizing or just

(08:43):
giving lip service.
We are using our bodies andmoving the feelings and
expressing the feelings andusing the feelings.
So all of that is being broughtto the space and to the now
moment, so it could be used todeepen the connection.
Right?
That's part of the definition.
Do you want to say more aboutthat?

Do you want to say more about that?
Yeah, so we're sensory beings,right, we're wired to sense,
even before we can speak, right.
So, as infants, right, we haveno language, but we know, we
know right, just because we'resensing, right, we can see sort
of right.

(09:22):
But what we're sensing intoopposite or with, or even behind
, like, we can sense.
You don't have to see theperson, right, what we're
sensing is what's very real,like, and that's creates that's
the relationship.
Right, I'm sad and hurt, um,you're turning away from me, or
I sense that you're turning awayfrom me.

(09:44):
Maybe you're not physicallydoing it right, but you've
actually done it right.
People, they disconnect, and sowe're wired to seek the
connection and the disconnection, which is what we're working
with, or with couples who are intherapy, is hey, how does that
happen?
What happens within the person,within the person which is also

(10:08):
then creating the relationshipright in the moment, over and
over and over and over right,and so drawing attention to, hey
, as I'm listening, as like apartner's listening, what's
coming up in you on the sensorylevel.
That's like I feel.
But somebody might say, oh, Ihear your words, like, I hear

(10:29):
this.
You, yeah, really didn't likeit that I said that what I
really feel is a deep sadnessthis is very different.

Oh my gosh, is it different.
You know, and it's interestingwhen partners say I feel that
you suck, that that's not afeeling, right, but I love the
way that you position the otherway right.
I hear the things that you'resaying and this is what I'm
feeling.

So good, that's just completely, completely
whole different worlds in termsof an interaction between
partners between partners,because that's oftentimes that,
most of the time I guess maybeI'll say oftentimes right
Unknown to the person who'ssensing it and also the person

(11:17):
that's receiving it Right.
So there's all this stuff goingon under there.
All this stuff is going onunder there and that's what you,
you know, if people aretherapists, are familiar with
emotionally, efs, right, it's,that's a lot of what is getting
tapped into right, what's theemotion that's coming up, not

(11:38):
just, hey, let's talk, let's docommunication skills practice.
So the attachment right, youcan sense, we can really work
with the attachment right, wecan sense, we can really work
with the attachment.
If there's an attachment woundwhich a lot of times there is,
you know, and or how do werepair that Like, so couples you
have the opportunity to helprepair, you know, their

(12:02):
partner's attachment wound ifthey're, you know, wounding and
oftentimes they come to us bythe time they come to us.
It's actually damaging, right.
It's got, it's been tweaking it, it's been triggering it more
and more, each one, right.
So those attachment wounds havekind of gotten like you know
the scabs have been picked.
You know the scabs have beenpicked.

Yes, I love that.

Yeah, and so the opportunity is to help
people become aware of that.
On a sensory level, I'm sodistraught and I'm telling you
you suck.
And I'm so angry at you becauseI'm so hurt and I feel
disconnected from you and all Iwant is to be with you.

Yep, yeah, and so it's so beautiful once they
learn to get in touch with thatand speak that way, right, which
is so far from when they firstcome in and after, and sometimes
it takes even a while, right,because just the noise is so
inviting and so enticing theblaming, the pointing fingers,

(13:07):
the criticism, the control, likeall the things that we do,
right, and the partners do.
And once people start beingmore vulnerable, like you're
suggesting, and they're invitingthat vulnerability from their
partner and that authenticityand that deeper share, right,
like everything just calms down.
It's like the nervous system islike oh, I'm okay, right, like

(13:28):
you're not coming after me,right yes, and so well.

We also, we kind of know, as therapists
right that tolerating that, eventolerating connection can be
very difficult, yes, especiallyif there's an attachment wound
right or, you know, trauma orwhatever.
Even tolerating that, that'sright, very difficult.
So like we help them manage itin the moment in a session, just

(13:56):
feel that, what do you notice?
Feel that, and so people getpartners the opportunity to
experience it.

That's what connection feels like.
Yes, wow, this is so lovely toput words to the work like this
right into into so, so for, forthe audience and those are
whoring couples therapy.
They could identify what'sgoing on in our minds, right and
, as we're observing it and aswe're guiding it, the
possibilities that are there ifthey allow themselves to just

(14:30):
show up in the moment and kindof put the weapons down, you
know, and it's much easier thanto get to this deeper level that
everybody's seeking.
This is what they're coming infor, right, and sometimes they
think that by shoving theirinformation at their partner's
throat that they're going to getthis.
That's going to do just theopposite, right.

So good.
Yeah, it's a really good point.
I mean, often the intentionsdon't match the outcome, right.
Here's what I really meant andI can't believe you took it that
way.
Yeah, very good.

So, carmela, what would you say are the benefits
and the importance of this kindof work, like, what does it mean
to repair this deeper level andthe overall benefits of this
for the relationship and for theconnection?

Well, I think I spoke to it a bit.
Right that there's theopportunity at the individual
level, right For each individualthat's showing up in the
relationship, right?
So we're working both, we'reworking on both, right, and so
we were kind of familiar withthe fact I did with the client
this morning.
Right that the chart of therelationship there's you,

(15:42):
there's me, and then there's us.
Yes, yes, the Venn's diagramyep, there's you, there's me,
and then there's us.
Yes, yes, the Venn diagram yep,there's us in the middle.
Yes, so what's the sense of?
Like?
That's an actual visual.
There's a space there.
What's the space feel like?
What's it feel like to be whenwe're in that space?
And there's lots of things right.
It's not just one thing right.

(16:02):
But I guess the real beauty ofit is to get underneath the
words and for people to sensethe connection.
Oh, I just felt you disconnectfrom me, didn't?
Oh Right, the connection.
Oh, I just felt you disconnectfrom me, didn't?
Oh right, you know, people cansay it, but when we have guide,

(16:24):
you know each partner to like,share with your partner, how,
what, the feeling of that?
That's really there.
You can't really argue it theway that some couples will,
right, so the benefits aremyriad.
Right, there's the opportunityfor people to learn a different
language.
Actually, you know, to learn adifferent language between their

(16:49):
partner, to have a differentsensory experience individually
and together, and to not rely onso much language.
There's a um, a therapist outthere.
I really respect his work,steven stosny.
I don't know if you ever heardof him.
He does a lot of work withtrauma, but also um, a highly

(17:13):
reactive couples, and he has abook, actually how to heal your
marriage without talking aboutit.
That's right, that's right, youknow.
Right, yes, yes, yes, or how to, whatever something your
marriage affects, your marriage,about talking about it, right,
right, we know from, uh, notjust him talking to it, but that
gender is different.

(17:34):
There's lots of differences inthe way that women are kind of
tuned into a relationship andmen are tuned into it, right.
So another benefit is that, like, the opposite partner gets a
sense of like, oh right, here'swhat's different.
You know, men are, oh, somewhatmore likely to distance.

(17:58):
Perhaps again, I'm notgeneralizing, but you know,
they've learned into um,defending, armoring up, and
they're um, they're not aware ofit, they're, but this their
partner is I can't even reachyou, that's right.
You know what are you talkingabout?
I'm sitting right here, right,but I can, right, and vice versa

(18:23):
, right From the other can belike this is too much.
Yeah, oh, my gosh, you are.
This is like I could feel somuch coming from you.

It's too much, that's right, yeah, feels so
much coming from you.
It's too much, that's right,yeah, and I think that
potentially that's part of thereason why they are more up or
shut down or distanced, becausethey're not used that much
feelings and so they get flooded.
And if the woman or the morefeminine partner doesn't have a
good boundary around containingemotions or expressing them

(18:54):
appropriately, so they're notlike beating on their partner
with it, right, and instead ofdoing a tsunami on them with
their feelings, then they can'ttolerate it.
So of course, they're not goingto be like right, or kind of
shut down, withdraw a distance.
Look away what, however they doit in the moment.
They might even actually leavethe room, right, if it's too
much, like if they're not intherapy.

(19:14):
Actually, even if they're intherapy when you're in Zoom,
they might still do that.
So very interesting, for sure,for sure, okay.
So then what we're saying isthat the benefit of this kind of
work, of the sensing and thegetting in touch with the
feelings and this vulnerabilityand sharing it and sensing

(19:36):
what's in the space anddiscussing it or bringing it
forward and bringing light toall this stuff, is to deepen the
connection.
That's kind of like the goal,the idea to repair the
connection when people arefeeling disconnected, to bring
that connection back online, torepair that bond, that kind of
like they put a knife to it ifthey've been doing funny
business right, so they kind ofbring it back together yeah, and

(20:00):
you know what's the phrase?

um, words are cheap, right, and being flippant
, right, but we again I, I saidit before but we're just
censoring, like, we're justconstantly sensing, like, are
you with me or are you not Right?
Right, and so to be able, andso for people, again, for people

(20:25):
individually, to like, oh, get,I have a better understanding
of this.
Is what's going on with me, andI'm not even aware of it, right
, I'm not even aware that I'msending that out, correct, right
, but they can get feedback,right.
So the the opportunity forfeedback is it's expanded.
There's different feedback thatyou can get from a therapist,

(20:49):
you know, different feedbackthat you can get from you know
your partner.

Yeah, beautiful you.
It's interesting becauseusually the partners are more
concerned about what they'regetting from their partner,
right?
I can't feel you.
Where are you?
You're giving me too much, butthey're not paying attention to
what they're doing, if they'reshutting down, withdrawing or
not giving, or what are theygiving right.
So it's very easy to focus onthe other, as opposed to what
we're doing yes, plus to whatwe're doing yes.

And so there's that.
That's the beautiful art of it,right that we're that.
You know, as therapists, we'reworking with these two nervous
systems in our own at the sametime.

Yeah, and that's why a lot of therapists who
don't work with couples findcouples therapy very challenging
.
Because that's a lot.
We do a lot of work.

It's a lot you do like we do a lot of work.
It's a lot you do like, isn'tthat?
That's primarily what you do,right?
Yeah, yep, well, and give me alot of credit because it's it's
uh, it's challenging, it'sbeautiful stuff and, um, it's
satisfying, but it is a lot,yeah, yeah.
So I guess, as I say that I'mguessing that you probably do

(21:56):
some of this intuitively anyway,totally for sure.

So I have some knowledge of these things from
my own trainings and differentthings, obviously, but
definitely just the self of thetherapist and just using my
intuition and my body, mysensing, just all my gifts, if
you may.
So maybe not so in a structureyou know like, not this specific

(22:22):
therapy with this particularstructure, but definitely it's
part of the dynamics of what'sgoing on, right, and just tuning
in and helping them regulatethemselves by using my own
self-regulation, right, yeah, so, yeah, all the things, of
course.

If it's happening in the session, then
if we're the repair right, itcan be like it can be a moment
right.
It could be 10 minutes right Ofwhatever's happening with a
couple, but even it's if it'slike a moment, then they've
experienced something new forsure, so gorgeous too, like and

(23:01):
however.

I mean, right now we're using the sensing part,
but any repair has has thatfeeling to it, right, but then
like this deeper piece thatwe're offering today, and so any
repair feels like right, andwhen we add this layer it's even
like a deeper, even a deeperpeace and calm and like knowing

(23:23):
and connection.
So that's just definitely partof the goal of offering and to
experience, okay.
So then that whole piece was sobeautiful and I really
appreciate all the informationthat you've shared so far.
The opportunity that partnershave to go to this deeper
experience with their partner ifthey want to, whether they're

(23:46):
in therapy or not.
It's just so gorgeous.
They could deepen theirconnection.
For everybody who's so hungryfor connection and to deepen
that connection with theirpartner and to feel like they
know each other at a deeperlevel.
So this is one of the ways andto really build that connection
in the moment and just feel justbetter in that attachment,

(24:06):
right.
So all that good stuff.
And so if people wanted to dothis by themselves, with their
partner, what might they?
How might they set this up forthemselves, like outside of
therapy session or if they'renot in therapy, like I was
saying how that?
How might they give this a tryif they want to get these
benefits for themselves?

um, so what I would suggest is to do some
individual and somethingtogether, right?
So there's so much out therenow on like guided meditation
that actually has helps peopletap into their body.
Yes, hey, there's like you canfind that all over the place
Like, oh, you know, just a fiveminute, feel into yourself, feel

(24:49):
into it, so people can get alittle more skill, so anything
that like is guiding them tolike feel themselves.

What's going on?

Yep, okay, very good.
Yeah, and then you get a littlebit and they can do that
together.
Sometimes people do meditationtogether.
Yes, that'd be a nice thing,right.

What was that like?

What was it like for you?
Right, I don't know.
I didn't feel anything.
You know where I felt, right,this is really.
But whatever it is, it's likeah, they're sharing it, they're
showing the experience yes, sobeautiful and then it's together
with their partner.
There's some simple stuff thatmay not be easy.
It's really fairly simple, butmay not be easy, right, right,

(25:34):
but even something like getgrounded.
You know something done, alittle bit grounding, like it's
fairly simple, but it may not beeasy, right, right, but even
something like get grounded.
You know something done, alittle bit grounding, like you
know, feeling solid and thenfacing your partner and just
gazing into your partner's eyesand then notice what happens,
hmm, right, and so you can like,that is like, again, it's
simple, but not always easy.

(25:54):
Oh, what starts to come up?
Oh, I want to, I don't, I wantto look away, right, or like oh,
I really am I.
Your eyes look so tender, or youlook sad or you look whatever,
right, so eye gaze is a reallysimple practice that people I
think couples therapists doanyway, right, it's sort of

(26:19):
helping people pay attention tosomething else, in other words,
pay attention to what's comingup.
Like as I look into your eyes.
Oh my gosh, I feel so warm.
You know, I can feel this lovecoming from you.
Or I feel cold, or I feel adistance, right, whatever, like
your eyes are cold or whatever,right.
But if you practice that whatI've had people do that and
practice it and they actuallyget better at it, right?

(26:43):
And and it becomes like these,a moment, a real connected
moment, real moment ofconnection, you know.
So that's that's one.
That's a simple one.
The other is, uh, another onethat's fairly simple and not so
threatening is to have people goback to back, like sit and go

(27:04):
and sit back to back, so they'relike healing into their partner
, right?
What do you feel?
Anything, right?
Oh, I feel it feels like abrick wall, like, like, like a
brick wall, right?
Oh my gosh, I really sensed youthere for me, right?

That's really beautiful.

Right Since.
So if the goal was, I want tosense connection from you, right
?
Oh, could you soften a littlebit, could you soften it?
And then, then, oh, that feelsso great.
oh, you know, yes I love it yeahand and so people and it's kind

(27:43):
of eye-opening for people tounderstand that how wasn't that
hard?
I it wasn't as threatening, itwasn't as I thought it was going
to be, just all kinds of littlethings like work with giving
and receiving right.
So that's also what we'reworking with giving and
receiving.
Yes, how you receive what I'moffering you, you know, and we

(28:06):
receive it on a sensory level.

Beautiful.
Yes, you know, it's sointeresting because these
exercises work when partners arenot fighting, when they're
fighting or they're not in goodterms.
It's so interesting becausethese exercises work when
partners are not fighting.
When they're fighting orthey're not in good terms, it's
not going to be as easy, right,Because I mean I hear it when
people are challenged, like Isee hatred coming at me, right,
and so it's going to be hard toreceive that hatred.

(28:30):
I mean, of course it would helpalso soothe the whole thing,
right, but it would take a lotmore guts to be able to go into
this vulnerable place whenthey're fighting or when they're
angry or when they're hurt.
Any thoughts about that?
Do you agree?
What do you think or what canwe offer about that?

That's the reason to do it right.
We do it because it's hard,because it's, but there's,
that's the value of doing itwhen you're not fighting, Right,
right, you do when you're notfighting.
And then when you're fighting,but at the same time, I think
there's the opportunity if atherapist is present and a
therapist can facilitate that,right.

(29:06):
So I just saw you like reallystiffen up, you know, like if
you just let yourself like, likefeeling your feet right, and
then soften your eyes and canyou, can you, you, can you hear
what's being said, so we'reoffering a chance to um, the
opportunity to to interrupt thatright, so we're interrupting.

(29:28):
That's building a new pattern,right.
So when we interrupt, like,that conflict in a in a sensory
way, it's like because we wantto bring it down a little bit,
right, yep, not trying toeliminate it necessarily Like,
okay, don't ever fight, right,but how do you?
How do you fight and stayconnected at the same time?

disagree, you don't necessarily even need to
fight, right?
So how can you havedisagreements without them
escalating and withoutdisrupting the connection, right
?
Of course I?
I love how you said all of that.
So of course they want to firstpractice and play with this
when they're in good terms andto add to their connection
moment into the connectionhabits.
I use those terms in our workand they could just enrich their

(30:15):
practices with things like this, and we're going to talk more
about that as we go.
I think that's one of the lastthings that we're going to touch
on, so we could deepen thiseven further.
But then if they practice thatand if they exercise that muscle
, they have a more accessible.
When they are in conflict, whenthey are arguing, when they are
disagreeing, when they arefighting, they could ask each

(30:36):
other or invite each other tocome into this place if they're
not in a therapy room, to cometo this place.
And okay, can we do thissensory thing so that we could
calm this thing down and get onthe same page and repair and
regroup and reconnect, so good.
So it could be used as anenrichment activity, but also as

(30:57):
a repair activity, because inthat repair there is healing,
right.
So that's kind of also thebottom line.

Yeah, well, sometimes I say it this way,
like we're going to do angerdifferently, right, you still be
angry.
We're going to do itdifferently.
Can you do it differently?
Can you be angry and stayconnected, even right here and
now?
Cause, hey, people are angryabout things, so you cheated on
me or you did this to me or youdid it right, and so we're there

(31:24):
for that.
As therapists, we have to bethere for that.
We're not trying to like, justdo all the like, the good stuff,
right, right.
But then there's like, andthose feelings are very intense,
right, this, the um, what'scoming towards you is being, is
pretty intense.

(31:44):
Can you stay in yourself, right, but also, can you stay
connected in conflict?
How do you stay connected inconflict?
Right?

Right, which I, I , I would assume that I don't
know that people haven'tnecessarily expressed this with
language, but I would assumethat people believe that they
can stay connected if they'reangry at each other.
Right, that's part of the the,the underlying thing that they
bring to to to a situation LikeI can't be nice to you if you're

(32:16):
being mean to me, right, likeyou know, like I'm angry, I'm
not going to be nice to you.
They're different things, right, and so then I'm going to
reinforce you being mean to meif I'm nice back to you.
Like weird things that peoplecome up with with logic and all
ego and patterns.
I love that you brought up thepatterns to this.

(32:39):
Absolutely, we want to changethose patterns.
Right, if we learn how to sitin anger, we could feel it under
all of our feelings.
No, feelings are not good orbad.
There are feelings that theybring information and if we're
able to sit with them and we useit, right, and then we we use
all of the feelings and thenthen, with that, if we could
hang in there and then we couldstill address the situation or
whatever, it is bonus yeah, yeah, but you know, and we can even

(33:04):
use, um, I guess what I is alsopossible, which is like so
informative and so illuminatingsometimes, to couples right,
like using posture, right you?

what do you sense when your partner's like
this Right, right, there's,you're not going to get in right
, I can't get in, I can't get inRight.
Or you can use posture.
You're like, okay, turn awayfrom each other.
Where's the connection?
There is none.
So what's your goal here?
Right, can stay that way, right, so there's another way that

(33:38):
you know we can use.

People like to to actually sense in the moment
here's what you're actuallydoing right, using the body
language appropriately, to, toenrich that connection and to
promote that connection yeah,well, to give people um an
understanding, understandingthat they feel, instead of us
telling them.
Lovely.
So what about touch and usingthe space in between them, like,

(34:03):
how can they bring that to thatpractice, like anything to
offer about that, as long as itfeels safe?
And how do we create the safety?
How do we bring that into thatmoment to help make it even
better?

I mean, you're not a therapist.
You're not a therapist.

There's no therapist.
This is for the audience, forthem to do it by themselves.
So if they are sitting togetherand they're like, oh, let's
play with this concept, or ohhoney, I know, I learned
something, let me show you this,and they are practicing,
they're playing with this ideaand they're deepening their
connection, or they're learninghow to use sensory repair or
somatic repair better, and nowmaybe they want to take it to

(34:42):
the next level and they want toadd a little bit of touch if it
feels safe.
So how do we create safetyaround that, to add touch and to
learn more about how to usethis space between them.

Yeah.
So I think your word safety isimportant, right, so ask
permission, you know, especiallyif there's been a lot of
conflict, yes, don't feel safe,they may have to.
Um, and the other.
I think the other key words areare to slow down, go slow,
right, because, um, as we kindof know from experience, like,

(35:17):
even like when somebody runs upto you and hugs you, like right,
right, you can do a little bitmuch, so go slow, right.
You know Gottman, he famouslysaid, like a long time ago, like
just touch your partner on theshoulder as you're talking to
them, right, as you're speaking,like using, touch your partner,
touch your partner on theirshoulder as you're talking to
them, right, as you're speaking,like using it, using touch

(35:40):
Right.
And so there's anotherconnection there and we sense it
, our system senses it andprocesses it.
At the same, you know, in adifferent way than just if I
hear you talking.
So it could be something likewe're watching TV, right,
watching TV, and you know like,hey, if you kind of, if you just

(36:00):
, instead of sitting oppositeeach other, right, or just you
know, sit next to each other andlike just sense to what you
sensed or and what naturallywants to happen will then happen
, right, oh, I'm sitting closeto you.
I want to put my, my arm onyour, you know, my hand on your

(36:21):
shoulder or hand on your on yourknee or whatever.
Something's small.
So it can be something smalllike that, right, I can be
feeling more like what I talkedabout earlier, you know, or like
putting your hands like likepalms together, like palm, and
like just feeling into like, hey, what's this distance, right?
What distance feels good?

(36:42):
Oh, this feels good.

I love that, yes.
So the other one was moreorganic, like just being
together in regular life, right,just kind of being in the space
together or even as they'repracticing some of these skills,
as opposed to sitting onopposite sides of the couch,
just coming a little closer,lovely, and what by what you
just offered then, as as a moreintentional practice.

(37:08):
Oh, let's play with the spacebetween us, what you know how
much close and sort distancefeels right in the using the
hands, like touching the hands,opposite hands to each other,
and kind of gauging the space,so pretty.
I love that because I mean youcan feel the boundaries right,
you can feel the space, you canfeel the energy, if you all
kinds of things you know, likeokay, this is too close, this is

(37:31):
too far, right, and so, likethat, you find that middle
ground that feels good to bothof us.
Yeah, so good.
And one person might feelbetter with the hands closer to
their own chest and the otherperson might feel better with
their hands closer to the otherperson's chest also, or maybe
they move back and forth,whatever, but, yes, what a

(37:52):
beautiful way of gauging thatand then maybe adding words to
it too, or defining orexpressing or sharing what it
feels like or like.
What else would you do withthat?

yeah.
So again, it's like getting the, just the sensory experience,
like oh, this feels really good,this feels really nice, right,
just feeling it.
And I think you said earlieryou know people who, when
working with um sexual issuesright.
So people who've been veryeither been estranged for a long
time, they've been alienatedand they're haven't been sexual

(38:25):
or there's been an issue right.
So again, sort of like to goslow right, to kind of use touch
in a very slow way and it canbe something like giving, like
starting with, like a very, uh,safe massage or something like
that.

That's actually getting people connected on a
sensory level without let's sitand talk about it right at a
sensory level without let's sitand talk about it, right, which
is just a different experience,right, which could be very
awkward.
People have a hard time talkingabout sex things but then
easing into being intimate bybeing with each other.

(39:03):
They might not necessarily needthe words, but just creating
that physical safety and thesensory experience of the felt
experience of being togetherwithout being all intimate and
all naked and all of the thingstoo quick, right, just kind of
ease into like, oh, this is safe.
Right, just kind of teachingthe body in the nervous system

(39:23):
it's okay to this feels okay andmaybe then what's the next
thing that feels okay, and justkeep progressing slowly yeah,
and so we're also teaching onthe individual level.

How do you create a presence that feels
safe?
You know, oh, I feel you feelsafe, I can come towards you,
right?
Wow, can you?

say more about that.
That's beautiful.
Well, because our presence iseverything right.
We're sensed like those, likewe've been saying, like, like.
Do I sense that?

you're safe.
Wow, can you say more aboutthat?
That's beautiful.
Well, because our presence iseverything.
Right, we're sensed like.
We've been saying, like, do Isense that you're safe?
Right, and just like open orloving, caring, right, it's very
hard to be sexually intimate ifyou sense your partner is not
being safe, right, that can comefrom both sides, right.

(40:06):
So somebody who has trauma intheir background can like, be
things don't feel safe ever,right, don't feel safe, right.
And so for their partner to be,create that presence that feels
safe, that's repair.
That's also a way to repair,right, because you're giving
your partner an experience of asafe connection that they may

(40:30):
never have had.
Okay, so, on the individuallevel, the more we create that
like sense of like oh, I'm herefor you, I'm safe, you can come
in, okay, then somebody has atraumatized nervous system and
they need to get this right.

Yeah, if I have a traumatized nervous system or a
history of trauma and I I'mlooking for connection.
Or I might not even be lookingfor connection if I'm very
traumatized but my partner wantsconnection or intimacy and
they're coming right.
So how do they come so that Icould receive?
If I'm traumatized, it's gonnabe very hard for me to receive

(41:11):
or to open up into a let inright.
So then the partner who'scoming, they need to show up
with that warmth in that, thatsense of safety, as opposed to
like, oh, come on, right, that'snot gonna.
I mean, that doesn't thepractical, what it might look
like, and so gentle, right andwarm and tender and loving and

(41:31):
caring and accepting and all ofthe beautiful, safe ways,
nurturing so that thetraumatized nervous system could
be at ease and receive moreeasy.

Yeah, in those situations, a lot of times less
is more right.
Yeah, totally, just go easy.

Yeah, you know I'm here and um, next time I'm
here we do something else, orbut yeah, so it's the interplay
and um for the person who istraumatized, who's looking for
that connection, regardless ofwho are taking the risk, right,
right, who are being courageousand who are approaching their

(42:10):
partner.
For the receiving partner toknow that they're taking a risk
and to continue to create thatsafety.
And if the partner who'straumatized is approaching their
partner and their partner's not, they're not getting it right
that they could guide them orshow them.
I don't know if you agree withthis and like they could request
, what might that look like sothey feel safe?

(42:33):
What do you think about that?

Well, I think what you just said, is really
important, right, that you ask,they make a request.
Yeah, they establish theboundaries, the boundaries feel
safe.
So it's that you're giving andreceiving.
Is it okay if I do this?
Right, I'll just go so.
So it builds trust.
When you're building trust, soI'm going slow is super
important.
Um, asking permission is vitallyimportant, right, and then, uh,

(42:59):
stopping if there's no, this istoo much like.
So there's, because somebodyand we know this too traumatized
people with trauma, right,sometimes their boundaries are
very porous, right, they havenone, right, they let too much
in, right, and then.
But then they feel alone, right, or right, right, and so it's

(43:24):
always a parallel process of,like, building up an inner
boundary for the person who'shad trauma.
If somebody has trauma, like, Iguess I want to say too that
it's really important for thatperson to be getting their, to
be getting work, theirindividual work yeah, I think
couples work without that is,yeah, I think couples work

(43:49):
without that.
It's harder, yeah, but it'salso a little it's just like can
not be safe, right, you're not.
There's a lot of work,individual work, right, they're
really going to need to getsturdy about what, to what
they're asking for when they saythat's too much.

(44:10):
So they're going to have to beinforming their partner.
Here's what I need, here's why,right, and would you be?
Are you willing to do that?
Because you got to get buy-infrom the other partner?
Right, because without buy-in,you just say, well, I'm going to
like, I'm just going to trythis thing.
I learned it.
Right, other person's person iscoolest.

(44:30):
Yeah, there's a lot, there'smore um chance that it may
disconnect because there hasn'tbeen any bound, like any
agreement, right, yeah, so I'dlike to try.
Here's what I learned.
Would you be willing to do that?
Right, okay, yeah, I could dothat.
Could you just be like sort ofpresent for me, whatever it is.

(44:52):
So the person who's like moreaware, you're going to have to
ask.
They're going to have to beaware enough to ask, and if
they're getting a no from theperson or like I don't know,
they, they have to.

They may have to say well, I'm not sure if this
is going to work.
Well, so I would like to offerthat.
The reason why I'm going hereis because I, with clients who
are either single or who dating,or with partners who are really
not into self-help, personalawareness, personal development,
couples therapy like none ofthis therapy for themselves,

(45:30):
right?
So it doesn't mean that therelationship is doomed.
It doesn't mean that you can'tbe intimate, right, but okay.
So then, what, right?
So then, what I would like tooffer those people is not to
feel hopeless like, okay, oh,shoot, my partner's not
interested at all, it's not safefor me ever.
What do I forget it then?
Right, Like I would hate forthat to be the takeaway.
So so I think that what we'resaying is that they would have

(45:53):
to kind of show their partnerwhat they're looking for, see if
they're willing to try it, andit doesn't have to be so
clinical the partner might notreceive clinical right.
So it could be very simple andvery layman's terms.
Simple as something like, invery layman's terms, simple as
something like oh, can we justmake love very slowly today,

(46:18):
Right?
And if I, if I, if I get likeall weird on you, just give me a
chance to regroup or maybe wecould pause, Would that be okay?
Like very simple stuff.
It doesn't have to be like I'mtraumatized and therefore blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
Right, it doesn't have to beintense, it doesn't have to be
scary for the other partner, theother partner who's not
interested.
They can't receive that kind ofstuff, and partners then have a
hard time getting their needsmet because they can't ask,
right.

(46:38):
And so I want the audience toknow that if that's you, that
you can't ask in a way that yourpartner can't give to you, I
think what you just said isbeautiful.

You know, can we just go slow?
And if somebody doesn't, youknow, is not going to reveal,
doesn't want to reveal thetrauma, I don't know.
You know, there's manydifferent scenarios that we
could be talking about here, butbeing able to take care of
yourself, right.
So our responsibility is totake care of ourself, yes, right

(47:08):
, and then we can ask for whatwe need.
And no, it's not hopeless atall, because it's very
empowering to be able to do thatright.

What might be some things that the partner in
that position might want to askfor.
The partner who, who'sseemingly resistant, not into
self-development, not aware, notin couples therapy, not in
their own therapy, like the mostdensest of person?
Let's make the worst casescenario here, just so that we
know that it could still workright.
What might be some things thatI mean I already gave kind of an

(47:41):
example.
Anything else that you want toadd to that Like?
What might those requests looklike?
So are you talking about?

somebody who's really working with the trauma,
or just anybody.

I would say that most people have trauma, but
maybe some more than others,right?
So, regardless of the level oftrauma.
So somebody who's feeling likeI need to go a little easy and I
want to reconnect with mypartner, and how do I do it in a
way that serves me and mypartner's a little resistant,
what's the best way to approachtheir partner?

Well, I think you touched into it, we sort of
have touched into it.
Some of it can be like just atouch you can sense into your
partner, you know, like you cansense, hey, are you receptive?
Is this person receptive rightnow, being aware of timing, you
know timing, yes, right, right.
So if somebody's coming homeand they're just really stressed
out or whatever it's thatprobably maybe it's not the very

(48:33):
best time, right, really right.
Or you know, again, I get itthere's like some awareness that
has to happen on the part ofthe person who's kind of making
the overture, yeah, right.
And if they, if they kind ofare aware that this other person
may not be receptive, it'ssuper important for them to just

(48:55):
be able to step back.
Okay, all right, maybe nexttime, or okay, then let's just
snuggle Right, or whatever it is.
We, you know, it doesn't we,you know.
And so the, the awareness onyour you're talking about
somebody who's really kind ofmore aware than a partner I
think, yes, yes, happens a lot.

(49:17):
Right, exactly Right Is to kindof like hey, how do I, how do I
make her, what's that?
What am I asking for?
And how do I take care ofmyself at the same time, right,
so it doesn't have to be, you'reright, it doesn't have to be.
Well, you know, I've had traumain my background, so like blah,
blah, blah, right, but it's ummaking a simple request.

(49:38):
You know, hey, can we just thathappens all the time, right,
can we just like struggletonight?
Right, that feels great.
Okay, can you give me a littleback massage?
Oh, my gosh, that feels so good.
You know the simple things,right?
Yeah, I think again it goesback to going, going slow,
because there's where awarenesscan happen.

(49:59):
If people are speeding throughit, it's like whoa, you're gonna
lose connection with, like,what's going on with me.

Right, what a good observation.
Yes, for those people who areanxious and who just want to go
through the motions of thingsand just checklist, checklist
things, right, and we do.
For sex, let's make sex happen.
Um, or however people approachtheir lives and their intimacy,

(50:27):
it's okay to first be in yourbody, to have the awareness, to
sense into the space between you, to sense into your partner.
Does your partner feel open?
Does your partner feelreceptive?
Does your partner feelavailable?
And if they don't, is this theright timing?
Or can you check to see if theywill become available?
Like all just basic things,right, not like just, and then

(50:51):
everything flashes.
Yeah, and then.

Then you know, because it'll people you'll know
.
On the other end of it rightWas how was that?
Like, did that feel?
Did that feel good?
Not really, you know, they maynot say it, but Right.

So first of all, I mean people might reject the
attention and the affection asat the first layer, right.
So your partner might be notavailable period.
And then, as you start gettingmore intimate, that it might
just feel very mechanical or notin alignment or just not warm
or right.
So you know, if you're not, ifyou're not connected and if
you're not in a good place,right in those situations, don't

(51:33):
serve anybody right, it createsfurther, further rapture and
further re-traumatist what's theword re-traumatizing situations
.
And so definitely use yourjudgment when you're approaching
well, I think you're speakingto another point.

The other point is that a lot of these moments
happen like outside the bedroom,right, they happen in everyday
life.
Yes, building in like thosesmall moments, and that's why,
like that the gotmans talk about, like they happen, building
those patterns, right.
And then so it isn't just allor nothing, like whoa, we've

(52:08):
just been here and now we'relike, okay, it's gonna right and
um, but and I'm sort ofspeaking in the context of
people who are maybe exploringor wanting to build a
relationship, but not not likejust hooking up- yeah yeah, so
wanting to build a relationship,and then there's that like kind

(52:29):
of going, going slow andbuilding in a pattern of
connection.
You know touch here and there.
You know words touch us too,right, we have we can touch each
other with words.
You know, uh, you gosh, youlook so pretty or you look
whatever, or whatever it is youor that was so nice that you did

(52:50):
this thing for me, or what agreat dinner, or you know I
really, you know, felt um,touched that you made dinner,
took me out to dinner and went,you know, made an effort,
something, anything like that.
So, yeah, so we're using alldifferent kinds of sensory
modalities, right?

To build connection.
Very good point, becausesometimes when we start talking
about sex, we automatically goto the intimate moment.
We forget all of this stuffthat happens before the actual
physical moment.
Intimate moment right, there'sphysical intimacy way before
that and all the kinds ofintimacy and connection that
happens before you get to thebed, air quotes right before you

(53:31):
get to the doing it, and so,yeah, everything that leads up.
You're building that connection, you're building the safety,
you're building all this stuffthat's needed there.
So then when you want to bephysically intimate, the chances
of it being good for both ofyou is much increased.

Yeah, Like what's that phrase?
Like something is some of thebest foreplay.
Right Is mental right, that'sright.

Yeah, that's right.
And yeah, they also say thatthe biggest sex organ is the
brain, or the sex, or the mostimportant sex organ is the brain
.
Right, because, like it also,it all happens in our head.
I actually say a lot that ourrelationship happens in our head
.
Yeah, yeah, we interpreteverything how we experience
everything, how we process it,what meaning we give it, right,

(54:22):
and so then it translates in howwe are experiencing yeah,
there's always.

yes, there's always that, and sort of making
sure that the story is actuallyconnected to your felt
experience is like what we'retalking about, because they can
be different.

Totally, but so right, exactly.
So I use it to explain likeyou're making up all this stuff
in your head, right?
As opposed to actually feelingit and working it and being in
it.

Yes.

And so when people struggle, it's all the
limiting beliefs and all themeaning systems and
disconnection and all that stuffthat's happening and not being
aligned and attuned right, andit's all just to show this noise
.

Yeah.

And it's a bad relationship up there.

I love that.
It's a great bad relationshipup there.
There's a great badrelationship up there and those
stories, but they're all thoseare all defense strategies,
right?
I mean, this is what I sayabout you or me as a defense,
like as a way to defend myselfRight Against you, and I think
that's the Protective mechanism.

(55:27):
Sure, yeah, that's theprotective mechanism.
Sure, yeah, so here's what I'mtelling myself because, um,
that's how I'm going to keepmyself safe, or I'm going to
keep you away, or I'm going todo whatever.
But uh, there's where the likeconnecting that to what's
actually happening makes it likeit like you know, more
substantial, or how they're notin alignment what you're telling

(55:47):
yourself.
You know this person is safe andthen your body's like no
excellent right exactly sopeople who who are not,
sometimes get into relationshipsthat aren't working well right,
or rid them.
They're overriding what they're.

(56:08):
What's happening, yes, no, it'sokay.
This is okay.
You know right.
The story is like what they'retelling themselves that may not
be the reality right.

They disconnected their body and their sensing
and all their.
Everything that they areexperiencing is disconnected
from how they're analyzing itand they're giving themselves
some messages that is not inalignment with the full body
experience, with their wholeself experience.
They're not for nothing.
They're rubbing heads orthey're butting heads or
whatever.

Yeah, lovely.

Well, there's the story right, and we're more
likely to tell a story that fitswith our own right, our own
perception or experience withour own patterns of how we have
experienced the world so far andwe make everything fit that
pattern that we, the blueprintthat we already have, and and we

(57:03):
we find the data that validateswhat we are supposedly already
know.
I suppose we miss all the othergood stuff.
I suppose we've seen everythingelse also.

Yeah, yeah, and you know, like we're not, we're
sort of like talking, I think,today about like relationships
that are kind of within sometype of norm.
Right, they're not abusive,right, right, right, right.

And yeah, yes, thank you for highlighting that.
Absolutely, that's right.
So we're not talking aboutrelationships who are, who are
awesome, because this you do allthis more intuitively and we're
not talking about relationshipswho are, like, dangerous and
abusive.
We're talking aboutrelationships who are like
regular, everyday relationships,where the opponents are
struggling a little bit, or whoare struggling maybe a lot,

(57:47):
that's probably more the caseand so they're just not in sync.
They're just not tuning in tothemselves, into their bodies,
into the other, likeeverything's just out of sync.
And then that's where all theconflicts are happening, right,
and all the struggles are comingfrom.
What about, as a kind of like aclosing sentiment, if people
were to say you know what, I'mgoing to invest in my

(58:11):
relationship Turning point, I'mall in, let's see if we could
turn this baby around, or let'smake this baby better.
So what might be some and again, people are not in therapy.
Assuming that they're not intherapy, or even if they are in
therapy, they could bring thisto the therapy session as well.
But assuming that they want toplay with this on their own,

(58:32):
what might be some practicesthat they might want to bring
into their lifestyle to makesome of these things happen,
what would be some exercises orsome things that they could try
to deepen their connection.
And also, if they are intherapy, you can still try it.
It's not going to do, it's notgoing to harm your therapy.
If you add this to yourrepertoire, you could bring it

(58:54):
to your therapist if you're notalready doing stuff like this,
or you could still practice iton your own, even if you're in
couples therapy.

So I think we touched on a lot of them today
already, you know, in terms ofbecoming more aware of your own
experience, and one way to dothat is slowing down.
How do you slow down?
What do you become aware of?
So there's all kinds ofmind-body practices out there,
right?

You start with yourself, very good.

Yes With yourself and you're like, here's
what I'm more aware of, right,I'm more in tune with me, and
then go from there, right.
So if your partner wants tocome and do it with you, that's
fantastic.
Before I I thought about thisearlier.
I want to say it.
Another super I think what'ssuper important is the, the

(59:41):
power of play.
Yes, for couples to playtogether, there's a whole like
experience of that Like, how dowe play together, like
experimenting with, like it'sgetting playful and that's
bringing up this other part, andthere's a whole like opening
that happens when we play, right.
So what are you doing to playtogether?

(01:00:02):
You know, are you?
You know, take, like, take somedance lessons or just go take a
, you know, take a bike ride orsomething, get out in nature and
really like put your phone away, yep, yep.
So being playful together isjust huge.
There's a whole semantic sideto that Right, having fun, right

(01:00:26):
.
What a concept.

Emma Viglucci (01:00:30):
Serious, yes, so good, right.
So first.
So let's kind of do a littleoutline for people Like just
these are the takeaways, if youmay.
So I love what you just said,starting with.
I start with yourself, becauseit all starts with our own
internal experience.
There's no relationship ifyou're not here, right,
potentially so things foryourself.

(01:00:53):
How do you slow down?
How do you have your ownpleasure?
How do you have your own joy?
Right, how do you show up toyour own body?
Are you attuned to your ownphysical personal needs, Like
all that kind of stuff first,then some of the things that we
already mentioned throughoutthis conversation today the
whole exploration with, like thehands, pushing the hands
together in the space in betweenjust to see how much space is

(01:01:14):
comfortable, the back rubbing,the touching the shoulder or the
leg when people are talking,the eye gaze so there's a few
things that we already mentionedthat would help get a sense of
what's in the space between usand how do we give it words and
how do we feel it and how do weshare it with each other.
So those were all beautiful.

(01:01:34):
And then you just added thislast element of playing together
and being playful and enjoyinglife together.
And what might that look like?
Exploring that you can get ascrazy as you like or as simple
as you like, just going for awalk after dinner every day or
whatever, however, however oftenyou like, but just activities
that put you in each other'sproximity right, that don't have

(01:01:59):
devices or other things thatcome in and disrupt that that
being together in the moment.

Carmela Bennett (01:02:08):
Simple things like learning something together
.
You're doing something together, there's a sensory experience
of it.
You're in the same spacetogether.
I mean we can think of it likeoh, we just went out and learned
how to like I don't know makecandles or something.
But there's a commonality, likeyou just did something together

(01:02:29):
, so it doesn't have to be solike serious, like sit down and
talk about it and likeeverything, um, that's helpful
too, right, but even like justthe experience of doing
something together and weminimize that, I think totally,
we go off.
I'm going to take this class orI'm going to do this thing.
Right, doing it together islike you're sensing the same

(01:02:54):
thing together.
Right, it was like that was the, that was so fun.
Or we took this art class wherewe, you know, but all those
different senses are getting,are kind of firing in that
moment, in these moments, right.

Yes, and I love that last bit of the language
there, because Joe Dispenza, Ithink, says this fired together,
wired together, right.
So the same thing with a couple, like the mirror neurons, like
you're feeling each other inthose experiences and you're
wiring together, you're buildingthat connection, you're
repatterning things.
There's so much happening.

you're not just making candles.

You're doing so much more than that.
Ah, so beautiful.
I could totally sense thatyou're a wonderful therapist,
not just from your words, butjust your energy and just the
quality and warmth that youbring into the conversation.
So you're beautiful, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, anything else that youbring into the conversation, so
you're beautiful, thank you,thank you for having me.
Yeah, anything else that youwould like to throw out there
for people who are experimentingwith these ideas, who are not

(01:03:55):
in therapy, who are nottherapists, who are just
listening to this, and that youmight want to offer to them as
the last takeaway?
It doesn't have to be that hardright.

It doesn't have to be that hard right.
It doesn't have to be that hardor complicated.
There's, we hear so much and weget inundated with so much
information and even this rightcan, like maybe, like you said,
clinical, be like oh, it doesn'treally have to be Right.
And you know how do you feelinto your partner, how do I feel
into myself, and then I feelinto my partner.

(01:04:28):
I just want to reassure people.
It's not that threateningeither, Like it's not a
threatening thing.
Oh my gosh, I'm going to haveto do this thing.
We do a lot of it, likeautomatically, anyway, Beautiful
.
Yes, we can slow down and payattention to it.
Then you know, we can leverageit more.

Lovely, yes, exactly.
Yeah, I would hang my hat onthat.
Okay, yes, right, because Ilove.
I love that as a sentiment.
As the last takeaway we make ittoo complicated.
It doesn't have to be a list ofthings too structured, too set
up too all of these things toremember.
Right, if you just payattention, you're automatically

(01:05:09):
negotiating the space betweenyou, you're automatically
sensing what your partner'sdoing, so can you tune into that
and leverage it?
I love that word for this aswell.
Right, can you capitalize onthat sense, play with it more?
You could use what you'realready doing and make it bigger
, like, use it better.
Yeah, just build from what youalready have.

You know bigger .
Like you said, better, yeah,just build from what you already
have.
You know there's like somefundamentals of human beings,
right?
Um, how can you help yourpartner feel the way you want to
feel?
Oh my gosh, yes, that's whatit's all about you know so good.
Here's what I want to feel.
I'm going to help you feel thatway.

Yes, so good, yes you know I'm going to offer one
.
Feel that way.
Yes, so good.
Yes, you know I'm going tooffer one last thing to add to
what you just said.
That's so beautiful, and I'mgoing to use the word delight,
right?
How about we make it ourbusiness to delight our partner?
Yeah, I think a lot of times wejust so hang up on.
How can my partner delight me?

(01:06:06):
Does my partner take care of myneeds?
What's my partner doing for me?
What do I get Me, me, me, me,as opposed to?
What can I offer to my partner?
How do I make my partner feelgood?
I love what you just said theway I want to feel.
I want to feel loved andcherished and honored and
respected and treasured andwhatever all the things
connected.
How can I help my partner feelthose things too?

(01:06:28):
If I want my partner to feelrespected, I'm not gonna go beat
on him.
I'm not gonna be critical,demanding, controlling, whatever
people do.
You know all the things that wemight do when we're trying to
get our needs met.
How do I go about that?
The opposite way.
So how do I want to feel?
How can I go about it so thatmy partner could feel that way
too.
So it it's not.
We don't do the opposite, weshoot ourselves in the foot.

(01:06:49):
So how do we go aboutdelighting our partner?

So good yeah, I like that word.

That's great, very good.
Thank you so much for sharingyour time and your wisdom and
your knowledge and your skilland your gift with us today.
I really appreciate you.

You're very welcome and I think anybody
wants to talk to me and you haveinformation, I'd be very happy
to have a conversation, yeah.

Yes, All your information, your social media,
your website everything's goingto be in the show notes.
So if anybody needs to reachout to you, connect with you and
just work with thisbeautifulness that you are,
people are welcome to that.
So again, thank you so much forbeing here with me and to the
audience until the next one.
Bye.

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