October 29, 2022 • 46 mins
There are a TON of feelings and emotions that come along with getting a type 1 diabetes diagnosis for your child. Listen in to today's episode as Joanne Robb and I talk about dealing with anger, shame, resentment, sadness and more.
Being the parent or caregiver to a child living with type 1 diabetes can come with a lot of emotional, mental and relational challenges. Joanne is such a great resource for parents and caregivers of type 1 diabetics. In her practice, coaching courses and podcast, she primarily deals with the emotional and relational challenges that come along with managing T1D day in and day out. Check out all the links below to find Joanne! Enjoy!
For JOANNE'S WEBSITE click HERE. Click on the dark purple banner at the top of the page to be a guest on her podcast and have your questions answered! You'll also find a direct link to the podcast itself.
OTHER EPISODES YOU MIGHT ENJOY
Early episode on Anxiety
The Grief and the Trauma of a T1D Diagnosis
Working through Anxiety with Psychotherapist and T1D mom, Joanne Robb
Validation: What is it and how do we do it well? with Joanne Robb
Follow the show on Instagram @sugarmamaspodcast
Come join the Facebook Group!
Visit the Sugar Mama's Podcast Website
Donate to the show through Buy Me a Coffee!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Katie (00:00):
This is episode 90 of the sugar mamas podcast.
And you are in for a treattoday.
I am back with Joanne And todaywe're going to be talking about
all those feelings and emotionsthat come along with being the
caregiver for somebody livingwith type one diabetes.
There's a lot of emotions, guys.
Uh, lots of big feelings and bigemotions that we've got to walk
(00:21):
through and work through as theparent of a type one diabetic.
Just a reminder that Joanne wason the previous two episodes
with me.
The first one episode, 88 was onanxiety.
And then the second one she didwith me was episode 89.
And that was on validation.
What is it?
And how do we do it?
(00:42):
Well, Joanne is apsychotherapist and a fellow T
one D parent.
She has three kids, two of whichhave been living with type one
diabetes for quite some time.
Joanne has her therapy practicein the state of California.
But she also offers coachingcourses.
For parents and caregivers oftype one diabetics.
Nationwide.
You can also check out andregister for her coaching
(01:04):
courses on our website.
Again, that's diabetes.
Sweet talk.com.
Be sure to click the dark purplebanner at the top of the page
where you can submit yourquestions to be answered by
Joanne.
And you can even be a guest onher podcast, which is sweet.
Talk for parents of kids withtype one diabetes.
Just in case you were concerned,you can always submit a question
(01:28):
anonymously.
I just love Joanne.
I love what she's doing.
I love her podcast.
I just think she's such a gymfor the type one community and
is going to help so many people.
Okay.
Without further ado, let's getstarted.
You're listening to the sugarmamas podcast, a show designed
(01:50):
for moms and caregivers of typeone diabetics here.
You'll find a community oflike-minded people who are
striving daily to keep theirkids safe, happy, and healthy in
the ever-changing world of typeone.
I'm your host and fellow T one Dmom, Katie Roseboro.
Before we get started.
(02:10):
I need you to know that nothingyou hear on the sugar mamas
podcast should be consideredmedical advice.
Please be safe, be smart, andalways consult your physician
before making changes to the wayyou manage type one diabetes.
Thanks.
All right.
I am back this week with Joanne.
(02:31):
Rob, just a reminder, Joanne isa psychotherapist.
She's also a type one mama oftwo kids with type one diabetes
and one other child that doesnot have type one diabetes.
Joanne (02:44):
We like to remember that.
Katie (02:45):
Child Right.
Exactly.
We can't forget the other child.
and in Joanne's practice and inthe courses that she offers for
type one parents, she dealsprimarily with the emotional and
relational challenges that comealong with managing Type one
diabetes day in and day out.
And Joanne, I was curious beforewe started recording, I don't
know if you've ever said it.
(03:05):
Do you work just with parentsand caregivers of Type one
diabetics or do you also workwith some T1 DS?
Joanne (03:12):
So in my coaching courses I only work with
parents.
Mm-hmm.
But in my practice I work with awide range of things.
Like I'm actually a certifiedcouples therapist and I work
with adults with Type one, and Iwork with eating disorders and I
work with a whole range ofthings in my private practice.
But in my coaching courses, yes,it's just for parents of kids
with.
(03:32):
Got it.
Katie (03:32):
Okay.
All right.
So Joan and I have already donetwo episodes.
The first one, was on anxietyand just navigating anxiety, and
through the lens of managingtype one.
And then, last one was onvalidation.
Just what is validation and howto do it well.
And today we are talking aboutall the feelings and emotions
that can come along with, beingthe parent of someone with type
(03:52):
one diabetes.
So, I think what we're gonna dois just kind of go down the list
of maybe common emotions andfeelings and just kind of talk
through.
You know, how those might beexperienced by different people,
what that might look like, andthen how to validate those
emotions.
Okay.
Right?
Yep.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we're gonna start with anger,which.
A big one.
(04:13):
You know, I, I think a lot ofkids, I know my daughter
definitely has moments where shefeels very angry at Type one
diabetes.
She's pretty, she's pretty quietperson, so she doesn't really
express that by like, throwingthings against the wall or
yelling at people.
But, you know, I, I kind of seeit in her.
So, I guess unwillingness to dothings to take care of her
(04:37):
diabetes, you know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know if you would callthat procrastination or maybe
just denial, but she just, Iguess, gets burned out and angry
at diabetes and, and doesn'twanna do it, so.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
How have you experienced angerwith your kids and with the
parents of people?
You, you know, the parents thatyou've helped in your mm-hmm.
through your courses.
Mm-hmm.
Joanne (04:56):
So, it's interesting because when I think about anger
I don't think that as being theprimary presentation for most
parents, Right.
The primary presentation formost parents has to do with
sadness, I think, and guilt andsome fear.
Mm-hmm.
recently ish.
Actually I was working with acouple and the dad was really
angry.
Very, very newly diagnosed.
(05:17):
And I do think that there can bea gender difference here, right?
Because for men, anger is justcoded as more appropriate
culturally than for.
But for the kids.
Absolutely.
Katie for the kids anger is canbe a really primary
presentation.
Mm-hmm.
and I wanna name that burnoutand anger don't necessarily
always go together.
So you're saying for yourdaughter, you know, you see
(05:38):
burnout and procrastination.
I don't think that only could beled from anger.
There could be other thingsthere.
Just plain old exhaustion,right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But um, I think.
And this references what werecorded for our last epi, my
last episode with you is I thinkit's about validating it, right?
Mm-hmm.
they have every reason to beangry that this thing got heaped
(05:59):
on them.
And that, you know, I thinksometimes about primary emotion
versus secondary emotion.
So the way I think about this isif I were a fly on the wall
looking at what was happening,what would I.
And in your daughter's case,what I would see is
procrastination and not wantingto, But what you're saying, and
I trust you, right, because youknow her so well, you're in the
(06:19):
room with her.
You've lived with her so long.
Is that underneath that, theprimary emotion that's driving
it is anger?
Mm-hmm.
For adults, I often think theanger is the secondary motion.
It's the thing I would see if Iwere a fly on the wall.
Mm-hmm.
But underneath it is likely.
Right.
Does that make
Katie (06:35):
sense?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, I'll be, to be quitehonest, I don't know.
I don't know what the primaryemotion that she's experiencing
is.
I mean, I don't know that I'veever just come out and asked
her, Hey, what are you feelingright now that that'd probably
be a good place to start,Mm-hmm.
Joanne (06:51):
And kids don't always know how to answer that
question, so sometimes we takesuppositions, we like make a
little guess, and we say, Iwonder if you ever feel angry
about this.
Like it would make so much.
Right, so that she gets a lot ofpermission for that feeling cuz
kids often can't link up whatthey're feeling on the inside
with the words and the conceptthat we have of what that
emotion is, right.
Katie (07:10):
Yeah, I'm, I'm wondering where we should go from here.
Like, I wanna, I kind of wannatalk more about anger.
But where, where do you think,what do you think we should talk
about next in terms of anger?
Joanne (07:19):
Well, it's interesting cuz this list, this is also me
just talking to you, this list.
I feel like when you say, Howare we gonna validate all these
feelings, I feel like it's kindof the same drum.
that really all of them makessense.
And that parents come to all ofthe, you know, we each, it's
like those stages of grief,which I'm not, you know, Kuer
Ross's stages of grief, whichI'm not gonna quite remember all
of them, but there's angernegotiation, mourn.
(07:40):
Mm-hmm.
sadness.
It's, it's the same thing.
And I think we cycle throughthese feelings over and over.
I think the way I picture thisoften is it's like a spiral.
It's like it, it comes up, itgets easier and easier, but we
still hit the same emotionsagain and again.
Mm-hmm.
right?
There's a moment where you'reon, I'm thinking of a moment
with My son, we were on vacationand we were scuba diving, not
(08:03):
scuba diving, snorkeling, and Iknew he was low, like I had no
evidence for it.
I just was like watching him inthe water.
I was in a boat and I was like,He's not safe right now.
And so I had the people in theboat.
Roll me over to him and I hadhim stick his finger in the boat
and I dried it off and I did thefinger stick and I was right.
He was low.
And there's this feeling of likedeep sadness that that has to be
(08:25):
part of our life.
And we were years into diagnosisby then.
Mm-hmm.
I think, I feel like, you know,when my daughter was diagnosed,
I remember weeping of all thingsbecause I was like, How will she
wear a wedding dress like this?
She was four years old and thiswas the thing in the front of my
mind, So I feel like we cyclethrough these emotions and mm.
Our kids do too, right?
They cycle through anger, theycycle through sadness, they
(08:48):
cycle through exhaustion.
They cycle through all theseplaces.
So with a, I guess that could beon, but like the, where do you
go from here?
It's confusing because likethere's just a whole jumble of
feelings that come up.
Yeah.
And I think some of the task isto give ourselves permission.
that does that they're normal.
Katie (09:04):
Yeah.
Well, and that's probably agreat place to go with that
because you know, as I kind ofpaused and thought like.
I think that was really myhesitation is that I really just
kind of dawned on me like justnow that you can't, it's hard to
isolate these emotions.
Yeah.
Because they're often justtogether.
and you, you're right.
Like I know that I canpersonally cycle in and out of
(09:25):
many of them.
Often quickly, usually quickly.
Yep.
And a lot of times it's maybeeven during an activity that is,
you know, labeled as a happyactivity.
Like you just mentioned.
You guys are, you're onvacation, you're or out for a
family outing.
You're scuba diving, you'reexperiencing something new and
fun, but yet there's this.
Moment of like a way, like alittle wave, Like a little wave
(09:48):
of sadness.
Yeah.
Like a reminder that oh, this iswhat it is.
And I hate that for my kid.
Yeah.
We ha I had a similar experienceat Sarah's at our birthday party
last year.
You know, we went to a littlelike arts and craft place where
they did like woodworking andthen they got to paint it and
all that.
And there was another friendthere with diabetes.
But you know, I just rememberlike.
When the food came out, like wehad to you know, I had to go
(10:10):
around and tell her, like how,remind her how many carbs were
in the cupcake and she had toget out her controller and do
the, you know, do the insulinfor the pump.
And, and you know, you, it's notlike, it's not like the record.
The music stopped and everythingwas silent and everybody stopped
to stare at her.
But you know, you.
There's definitely a feeling oflike, people are looking and
people have stopped and peopleknow that this is something
(10:30):
different that she has to do,that most of the other people in
the room don't have to do.
and I didn't like focus on,focus on that really like, you
know, I just, we just kind of,Okay, there's 30 cards in this
cupcake but I just rememberhaving this very brief moment of
just feeling so.
Sad, like almost like a littlemini session of grieving all
over again, the life thatmm-hmm.
(10:51):
we have lost from beforediagnosis.
Yeah.
But you know, in the overallscheme of thing, that was a very
happy event.
Joanne (10:57):
No.
And I, I love, I love Katie thatyou're so attuned to yourself,
right.
That you can.
Know that it's there because Ithink that's the most real, Like
at the beginning there's bigfeelings generally, right?
There's big feelings of panic,there's big feelings of, you
know anxiety.
There's, there's feelings ofsadness.
I, I see a lot of guilt.
Which breaks my heart, honestly.
(11:18):
A lot of moms in particular whofeel like, if I had breast fed
more, if I hadn't fed this, if Ihadn't done this thing, if I,
you know, and I feel like it,you know, we can beat ourselves
up till the cows come home, butnone of that's actually proven
or real.
And it just feels like, I wishfor those parents that they
could set that behind them.
Like we just need to lookforward, which is easier said
than done, but You know, thereare those big, big feelings at
(11:40):
the beginning, and then as wemove through our lives with our
kids managing this, I think thefeelings get to be less.
It's almost like you're lookingthrough a telescope backwards.
Right.
It's not bringing it into sharpfocus.
It's far away, but it's stillwith us.
Mm-hmm.
and it's not with us always, butit's still with us often.
and we cycle around and around,and.
(12:01):
I think those feelings are real.
And for the kids, I think it'sthe same thing, right?
I think that's what, I haven'tdone an exhaustive thinking
about this, but like burnout,I'm gonna put that in quotes.
Like I think that and I'mputting in quotes cuz I think
that there's exhaustion with itand then people get
reinvigorated and then they'reexhausted again.
Like, it's not, it's not aconstant state.
It's like everything is fluidand changing and, and the
(12:23):
emotions shift.
Katie (12:24):
Yeah.
And it's probably not fair tocompare diabetes management to
like going on a diet, but I can,when you said that, it just
makes me think of going on adiet.
You know, you, you get motivatedand you're like, I'm gonna do
this.
It's gonna be awesome.
And then you start and it'slike, you know, usually very
restrictive.
And then you get tired of it andsick of it, and you really want
a cheeseburger, and so you kindaget burned out.
(12:44):
Then you might come back to itin a couple months or whatever
the case may be, but mm-hmm.
Joanne (12:48):
But Yeah.
You know, that's such a, that'ssuch an interesting example
because the research on diets isthat they don't work.
But with diabetes we don't havea choice but to make it work.
And so I think the kids I seewho do.
Who have a particularly positiverelationship to it?
Not always, but they, their,their parents actually often get
them involved in studies andthey change technology a lot.
(13:10):
And so they're really fluentwith all kinds of different ways
of relating to it so that theycan keep it fresh.
Right.
If you put on a different pumpor if you changed it injections
or if you use different insulinsor like, I interviewed someone
recently who uses.
she's gotta be in her latetwenties and she uses a lot of
different insulins depending onwhat she eats.
And I'm like, Wow, okay.
(13:30):
That's like beyond my pay gradefor sure.
But it keeps her really fresh.
I, I think those are ways thatwe can help our kids is, you
know, trying a new pump orgetting them in a study if it's
available to us.
I mean, I know not everyonelives in those places where that
is, but I think that, you know,community connection, all those
things keep it reinvigoratedbecause it's not a diet.
They don't have a.
Katie (13:51):
Yeah.
I know.
I feel I get a little a littlebit more invigorated when we do
switch it up a little bit, youknow, like, switch to a
different system or maybe we'lltry a new insulin or whatever.
That does invigorate me.
I can't, I can't speak forSarah, but and that's probably a
good thing to keep in mind too,for families that go to their
endocrinologist and want to trysomething new but are hesitant
to ask maybe.
(14:12):
This is not a, a healthy emotionby any means, but, you know,
there's been times where I'mlike, I almost feel bad asking
because I'm like, I know y'allare busy and you gotta fill out
all this paperwork and you mighthave to send in a prior
authorization, but like, wereally wanna try this.
And but that would be a good wayto maybe talk to your
endocrinologist to it.
Like, Hey, we're kind of feelinglike we're in a rut and I'm
(14:32):
trying something new.
Would really help to kind oflike shift our perspective and,
and maybe give us a little bitmore energy than we're currently
dealing with.
And, and we might not stick withit, but I think it would help
even just mentally, emotionallyto try, try something new and
get shaken out, shaken out ofthe mundane, you know?
Yep.
Joanne (14:50):
I think that's actually a great idea.
Hadn't thought about it likethat.
And I wanna encourage you tothink about, to me, that's your,
I I, I find this with a lot ofparents too, that there's a
hesitation to ask for the helpthat they need.
And I feel like you, in yourstory, Katie, seem like you have
a lot of family support.
Mm-hmm.
a lot of parents don't.
Right.
And so they hesitate to even askfor the community support that
(15:11):
they need and that, Right.
Mm-hmm.
but also the endocrinologistsupport.
Mm-hmm.
like, we need it, we deserve it,and we need to find a team where
we feel comfortable asking forwhat we need so that we can, you
know, track of our emotionalhealth as well as our kids'.
Physical health.
Katie (15:27):
Um, And I might approach it, I'm actually currently
advocate for less annual visitsat our Oh yeah.
Onologist, because they want usto come every three months.
And I mean, listen, I just thinkthat's excessive personally,
especially if we have goodcontrol.
But that might be a good way toapproach it too.
Like, Hey, we like are feelingburned out.
Like we, we have good control,but like coming here every three
(15:47):
months is a little exhausting.
Can we please, Go back, youknow, take, take a little bit of
that away.
I don't know.
We'll see.
Yeah.
I'm getting some push back inthat area, but that's for
another episode.
Perhaps
Joanne (15:58):
I I would listen to that episode.
I'm, I'm having the samestruggle,
Katie (16:02):
Yeah.
Its okay.
So I kinda wanna talk a littlebit about the guilt, mm-hmm.
that you mentioned earlier.
You know, a lot of.
I'm very thankful that thatactually is not something that I
struggled with and I don'treally know why that is.
My personality maybe, but I ne Ididn't, I never got stuck on
the.
Oh my gosh, I gave this to mychild.
Or, you know, something in our,I can tell you for sure that
(16:22):
there are lots of autoimmunedisorders in our family.
I have one, my sister has one,my mom has one.
I mean, there's, there's astrong history of autoimmune
disorders.
So, and Sarah knows that cuz shehas asked like, where did I get
diabetes from?
And I'm like, Well, nobody gaveyou diabetes.
Just something that happened.
I said, but we do have a verystrong history of autoimmune
(16:42):
disorders and type one is alsoan autoimmune disorder.
And you know, we kind of talkedabout that a little bit, but I
don't, I don't know, It's, I'venever felt guilt about that
because it's ju I just feel likeit's out of my control.
Mm-hmm.
And there's really what can bedone.
Nothing.
Nothing can be done to change.
what has happened?
So how, how do you, whensomebody comes to you and is
just feeling, just burdened withthis huge, you know, weight of
(17:03):
guilt over their kid'sdiagnosis, how do you help them
through that?
Joanne (17:08):
Well, it's interesting with any feeling, right?
When some, And also it dependsif they're coming as a therapist
or as a coach, like my hats areslightly different.
But in general, what I would sayis you can't talk people out of
their feelings.
Mm-hmm.
right?
Like, I'm with you.
I didn't.
I didn't feel guilty.
And actually with my daughter, Ihad some good reasons too.
Like I had a thyroid condition.
(17:30):
I had to take medication throughmy pregnancy with her.
So it feels like it was evenmore of a setup for her.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
But I also feel like shewouldn't be here if I hadn't
made those choices.
So, you know, those, those are,the gift was she got to have her
life and the bad thing was that,you know, she has diabetes in
her life.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I'm not, I, I wouldn'tsay I'm responsible for it, but
(17:52):
certainly the genetics are thereand I had to take this
medication and all those things.
Right?
Yeah.
But somehow that's not where Igo.
And you can't talk someone outof it, right?
You can.
Mm-hmm.
you can't talk someone out ofany feeling that they have.
Really what you can do isvalidate it and gently point to
the places where you think theirthinking might be flawed.
(18:13):
Right.
So, I'm trying to think ofanother example other than
guilt, but.
But I guess let's stay withguilt.
I think, I think that guilt alsocomes from a place as a parent
of imagining that you can createa perfect problem free life for
your child.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Which is just not real.
And we do want that for ourkids.
We hate to watch them suffer inany way.
(18:33):
And with type one, we knowthere's plenty of extra kid
suffering that's happeningmm-hmm.
But we can't make that happenfor our children.
We can't make it.
middle school is easy, let'ssay, or that they're gonna get
straight A's in high school andnever suffer that.
No one ever says anything meanto them.
Mm-hmm.
this is part we all get kind offorged in fire.
And so I think it's really justrecognizing and sitting with
(18:57):
somebody's emotion while yousort of gently point to the fact
that there are some other piecesand ways for them to recalibrate
the emotion, right?
Mm-hmm.
there are other, there's otherdata that they could take in
about what they're feeling thatmight help, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I think to point out tosomeone who feels guilty, like,
yeah, it makes sense, right?
You don't want your child tosuffer like this, and you feel
like somehow you wereomniscient, you had all the
(19:19):
power.
And you could have kept themfrom from this disease and that
we both know that's not real.
Mm-hmm.
right?
Cause that's where it comesfrom, is this idea.
And I think especially firstchildren, we really do have an
idea that we can protect them.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
That we are all powerful, we canprotect them.
And diabetes is a big slamaround that one.
Right?
Cuz we can't, and we, we aren'tYeah.
Katie (19:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
Hmm.
Yeah, I mean, again, I'm verythankful that I have never felt
weighed down by that guilt, butI know a lot, I see it a lot in
social media postings of justpeople just feeling like it's
their fault, you know?
Yeah.
Just can't get past that.
And usually that comes kind ofright at the beginning, like you
said, when there's all these bigemotions and, and whatnot.
All right.
Let's see you.
Okay, so on the list I hadanger, sadness.
(20:05):
Mm-hmm.
guilt, fear and worry.
Mm-hmm.
Grief, resentment.
and shame.
Whew.
Yeah.
I mean, I can, I can relate toall of these some more so than
others.
Not, not so much the guilt one.
I know I just talked about that,but, But the, like, for
instance, the fear and worry, Iknow I've already expressed to
you that like, I don't worry alot about her medical state,
(20:26):
like her physical medical state,which I probably should worry
more about it, but but I worrymore about like the emotional
toll and the, I just think aboutmyself as a mom.
It's hard to be a mom, Itdoesn't matter if your kids have
chronic medical conditions orhave nothing at all.
It's, it's just parenting isjust hard.
So I think about that and thenyou throw on like one day she's
(20:49):
gonna be hope, hopefully Godwilling, be a mom managing her
family and then also managingtype one and hope, you know, by
that time it'll hopefully bevery, Routine for her and you
know, just something that isdone.
You know, kind of like just howyou would you know, you brush
your teeth a couple times a day.
Again, it's not fair to comparethe two because there's a lot
more involved with type onemanagement.
(21:09):
But I think, you know what I'mtrying to say.
Thank, do.
Joanne (21:12):
Yeah.
I think that that's, I, Iactually, we've, you said that
to me in a different time.
We've gathered about beingworried about your daughter's
mental health and mm-hmm.
you know, I, I suspect Katie,you're taking very good care of
her physical health mm-hmm.
Right?
And as that's getting even moreand more routine, You know,
you're saying you don't need togo to the doctor four times a
year.
There's a reason for that.
Right?
You don't need the handholdingof it.
(21:33):
You feel like her numbers arebasically in good control and
it's, it's enough.
Like you don't need all theappointments and the expense and
all the things.
But you're right that theemotional piece is heavy You're
focusing on what I think isreal, which is that there are
gonna be some extra weights forher and there's some.
Worry that you have, you know,you're a mom of three, you know
how busy you are, and then youthink about adding, like, how
(21:56):
would one add blood sugarcontrol into this?
You know, it feels like a lot.
And I'm, I think it, I think itis.
Mm-hmm.
so that makes sense to me thatyou think about that.
And there, I think that woven inthere though, you're identifying
it as like, you, you, you led tothis story from fear.
Mm-hmm.
but I hear in there sadness,mourn.
Mm-hmm.
(22:16):
right, Because it is, And that,and that's why I think it's kind
of like there's often not oneclean emotion.
It's often a jumble of things.
That are in the soup when wethink about our kids with
diabetes.
As parents.
Katie (22:30):
Yeah.
And that literally dawned on me10 or so minutes ago when I
started talking about it.
I'm like, Wait, I can't isolate.
There's, there's like lots ofemotions going on all at once.
Yeah, no, you're, I thinkthere's, I'm, I've said this
before too, that definitely theprimary motion I feel like I can
identify throughout this wholething has been just sadness and
I don't spit in it.
And so in it, Yep.
All the time.
(22:50):
Not by any means, but I justhave waves and usually when
they're, when I have waves, it'sa, it's a feeling of sadness.
So, no fun, fun.
No fun.
Um, Resentment
Joanne (22:59):
is one that kind of mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I wanna pull that up cuz I feellike that's one that not a lot
of parents are gonna talk about.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Especially about with theirchild.
They're gonna talk about it interms of their doctor, in terms
of insurance, in terms of a lotof other things.
Right.
Because there's lots of ways tobe resentful in those things.
Mm-hmm.
but sometimes we actually getresentful of our kids too.
(23:20):
Mm-hmm.
And I think that that can happenmore when they're teenagers,
when we know that I've askedthem or trying to get them to do
the thing, whatever it is, andthey don't do the thing.
Mm-hmm.
and then we're up all nightbecause of it, or we're worrying
more because of it.
And that can, that, that's real.
Right.
And I think resentment canreally be in there.
(23:42):
I, I would say resentment islike a first cousin to anger,
right?
They're really the same, in thesame bucket.
And we do get angry at ourchildren.
We also get angry at thedisease, right?
Because it derails us think ofhow much more we could do in our
lives that we could choose forourselves if we didn't have this
monkey on our back.
Katie (24:01):
Yeah.
I know I've.
I've been dealing with like someresentment with work lately.
It's hard to be a parent of atype one and then also be always
available for your job and yourcareer.
Mm-hmm.
It's really hard to be mom andbe always be for your job in
your career.
But yeah, no, I feel that.
I feel that in several.
Y Yeah.
Ways just, you know even likeyou touched on it in another
(24:21):
episode about when somebody,even just in passing, like a
flippant comment of like afriend saying, Oh, I'm so tired,
and you, you just kind ofimmediately go to this place in
your head where you're like, Ifyou only knew and I don't wanna
feel that way.
And I, and I don't wanna feelthat resentment and that, you
know, anger.
and I, I don't think we're all,you know, maybe we'll never be
immune to that.
(24:41):
But I think there's certainlysome healthier ways to deal with
it,
Joanne (24:44):
well, I think it's hard and I think it takes time, you
know, and I think, Like I don'tget as angry about it as like
reactive internally when peopledo that to me now.
And I'm trying to actually thinkwhy that is.
And I think part of it is thatI'm just really comfortable in
my seat that, yeah, this is whatI got.
I am managing this the best Ican.
The rest of the world reallydoesn't understand this.
(25:04):
Some people get it better thanother people, right?
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And I've also done more work totake better care of.
So that I do feel lessresentment when people just talk
about their own normal lives,right?
Mm-hmm.
Cause as you said, being aparent is hard no matter what,
and it is,
Katie (25:20):
Agreed.
Well, and I feel, do some workin myself to be genuinely happy
for people, celebrating them inall walks of life, you know?
Yeah.
I, I wanna celebrate people whensomething good happens for them,
or, I want to be happy for them,you know, that they don't have
to deal with us on a dailybasis.
Mm-hmm.
does that, does that make sense?
Absolutely.
(25:41):
So, I mean, you know, I, peoplekind of get to that point in
different ways.
For me, it's taken a lot ofprayer, in practice and so yeah,
I mean it's, I don't know.
These are just very realemotions.
Joanne (25:53):
Yeah, they are.
And I.
I think you're pointing tosomething, and this is like,
this is just us talking as twopeople.
This isn't like a therapyconcept really, but I feel like
the question somehow becomeslike, who is your best person?
Who, who do you wanna be?
I guess that is a little bit ofa therapy concept.
We have this idea of like ourbest, the best self.
You know, but it's hard withdiabetes sometimes to be our
(26:13):
best self.
There's a lot that, there's morethat gets in the way, let's say
it that way.
I think that it's always hard,like living life is challenging.
Mm-hmm.
And it's more challenging whenwe have this monkey that keeps,
you know, weighing us down.
I mean, I remember one daypaying the bill for the kids,
whatever supplies I have noidea.
And thinking.
Wow.
If I had, I could go on avacation.
(26:34):
Like it just think, I don't, andI don't like to think about it
because I think I'd be so angrymm-hmm.
that I'm spending all this moneyon something that I don't want.
Mm-hmm.
wasn't budgeted for all thethings.
I mean, that's a small example,
Katie (26:47):
but, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What about um, shame shame's on?
Joanne (26:51):
shame is tricky and I, I I have a friend who actually was
super generous to us.
She has a daughter who is in mydaughter's class in elementary
and middle school, and a bunchof years ago, this is pre
pandemic, so you know, whatever,pick a date.
She said to me, It must bereally hard.
Your daughter can't really go ona sleepover like she attended to
(27:11):
my experience in a way that wascompletely lovely and she.
I'll take her.
And I was like, But you'll losein night to sleep.
She's like, I don't mind.
Hmm.
Which was amazing.
And she took her for a fewsleepovers and then ironically,
and sadly, her son who wasolder, got diagnosed.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
Really am kind of a weird Aweird turn of events.
And I remember taking mydaughter to her house after he
(27:34):
had been diagnosed and she hadhad whatever she had had for
breakfast, and she was 350, youknow, because we hadn't dosed
right for it, whatever it was.
And I remember having this bighit of shame because my friend
was new enough that, first ofall, her son was still in h.
Everyone was behav, you know,everything was weighed and
measured.
Everything was, you know, andI'm so far past that, that we
(27:56):
make lots of mistakes.
Mm-hmm.
And so I had this hit of shameof like, Oh, she's gonna judge
me cause I'm not doing a goodenough job of managing.
And I really had to talk myselfdown from that.
I mean, I don't think that's aprimary way that shame shows up,
but I think it, I think it canbe like, I think there's this I,
and I think that, You know, outthere in uh, social media land,
(28:16):
right?
There's so much talk about likehaving the perfect flat line,
having the perfect a1c, and thatone kills me because there's, I,
I don't know what the researchis actually like.
If you have an a1c that's 5.7,is your life appreciably
different than if you have anA1C of seven as a type one?
Mm-hmm.
I, I just don't know what theresearch is, but I feel like
(28:37):
people are in a state of feelinginadequate, which isn't quite
the same as shame, but if they,if it's shown mm-hmm.
they feel shame, Right.
And that just makes me so sadfor parents because I feel like
we are struggling enough.
Or you feel shame cuz your kidisn't doing what your kid should
be doing.
As though we have full controlover our children all the time,
which we absolutely do not.
(28:58):
But I think those are ways thatshame can show up and, and it
can, I wouldn't call this shameexactly, but this references
back to something we talkedabout earlier.
It's about like, not getting thehelp you need, Right?
Like I'm burdening you.
And that is a thing I hear alot.
There's a, in, in my coach, oneof my coaching courses, I have a
whole flow chart of all thethings you might say to yourself
(29:19):
mm-hmm.
about how you're not allowed toget help and support how you
might be burdening people andall the things you could say
back to yourself.
Right.
Because it, it, there's thisidea that we should be sort of
perfectly independent and it's alittle bit to the side of shame,
but it, I think it's related.
Katie (29:34):
Yeah.
I do feel like I've gotten a lotbetter about asking for, for
help.
And that's, that's a humblingexperience for Oh, yeah.
For a lot of people.
Cause you, want to give theimpression that you've got it
under control, right?
But sometimes you just gotta,you gotta ask for the help.
But, and I'm very fortunate tohave a fantastic support system
in mm-hmm.
the city that I'm in with familyand friends.
(29:54):
So, I feel very fortunate inthat.
But yeah, I had that, I think Italked about it on the first
podcast or at some point in timetalking to you, but I had that
experience of shame when we wentto the endocrinologist last time
because yes, we, I mean, I'venever shown up to an
endocrinology appointment withmy daughter's blood sugar in the
three s and here we were and,you know, I felt like
(30:16):
embarrassed almost.
Yeah.
Or like, I don't, I don't knowwhat the word is.
Shame I guess would be the word.
Um, but I recognize that thegood thing is that I recognize
that, that like, oh my gosh, I'mfeeling this way and there's
really no reason why I should befeeling this way.
Because things get forgotten.
People make mistakes, and justnot every day's gonna be
perfect.
So I remember.
Trying to make a very consciouseffort to like not show that on
(30:39):
my face or with my words.
And cuz I didn't want, I didn'twant my daughter to feel I mean,
you know, I didn't want her tofeel ashamed.
I actually texted one of my goodfriends who has a daughter with
type one as well, and I said,I'm really debating right now if
I.
This is awful.
I'm like, should I throw mydaughter under the bus and like
maybe like make her wake up tothe fact that we need to do
(31:01):
things a little differentlysometimes.
Or do I just smile and nod and.
You know, move on with my day.
And she was like, Yeah, toughcall.
I'm gonna go with smile and nodand move
Joanne (31:13):
Cause real tempted to
Katie (31:14):
throw somebody on the, under the bus right now.
And it's because I didn't wantit, it, I didn't want it to be a
reflection on me in
Joanne (31:20):
the way.
Absolutely.
I was thinking that same thing.
Right?
And, and how much our childrenare an extension of ourselves.
And so when they, I'm gonna putthis one in big fat quotes when
they behave badly cuz it thiscom, you know, if your.
is the kid in preschool whobites the other kid.
You feel kind of bad, right?
Right.
And at two and three, ourchildren really are much more
(31:40):
merged with us at 10, at 15,they become more and more
independent.
We aren't them.
They aren't us.
They might forget something.
And also it's like shrug.
It's not even a smile and nod.
It's like, yeah, we have one ofthose days we forgot.
You know?
Yeah.
It's just what it is, but I getit.
Right.
Yeah.
We want our kids to be perfectand present themselves
perfectly, so.
Because it's a reflection on us,our family, the whole.
Katie (32:02):
So I feel like underneath that whole scenario was really,
it was, it was a pride issue,you know?
For me, yeah.
For me.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, because I want, you know,I wanted to, our data presented
really nicely, but like, if youlooked at the current real time
number, it's like, oh my gosh,this is a rollercoaster
situation.
So yeah, I, I didn't want it to,Reflect, reflect lab on me as a
(32:24):
person and a parent.
Mm-hmm.
So I had to, I was having alittle mini therapy session in
my head while we were sittingthere.
And it was fine.
I mean, you know, that we, we'vebeen there at that number many
times before that it justhappened that, that was the
morning that we had to go to theendocrinology appointments.
Yep.
Yeah.
And to remind myself that oftoo, you know, of that too.
Like I, this is just gonnahappen sometimes.
(32:46):
Hopefully not too frequently,but it's just gonna happen.
We don't need to wallow in shameover
Joanne (32:50):
it.
Yeah.
I, I think one thing I wannanotice about everything you're
talking about in your ownstories is that, that you have
like multiple characters in yourhead and this is, this is really
normal.
We all have different parts.
So you have a part that's shamefilled and another part that
says this is normal.
Mm-hmm.
this is gonna happen.
This is okay.
With all of these feelings I'mhearing you have a part that
(33:13):
rises up in sadness, a part thatrises up in resentment, and then
other parts that can talk toyou, right?
Like that are your best self,more or less, that are reminding
you of the, of a Like conflictwith and way through.
Yeah.
Bigger picture.
Mm-hmm.
and I think that is one of thestrategies.
Is to think about it in terms ofparts to notice when the part of
(33:34):
us that is sad comes up, right?
Because it's there and it risesup and we notice it and we say
just the way we would to ourchildren.
We say to ourselves, Yeah, itmakes sense.
I'm so sorry you're sad andlet's, you know, remember these
things or make some space for itor move on from it.
Whatever we think is appropriatein the moment.
But I think thinking of thesefeelings in terms.
(33:55):
Can be helpful also to help uslike, feel more in control of
them.
Katie (33:58):
Okay.
I know it helps me to break itdown a little bit cuz otherwise
I probably would get veryoverwhelmed.
Joanne (34:03):
Mm-hmm.
Katie (34:03):
Let's see.
I'm looking at what we, where weshould jump to next.
Let's spend a little bit of timetalking about just
self-compassion being kind toourselves because.
I don't think any of us woulddeny that this job of being a
pancreas for our kids comes witha lot of and then teaching them
also how to be a pancreas forthemselves one day so they can
(34:23):
be pent with it eventually comeswith a lot of emotions and
feelings, so it's, I think it'seasy.
For us to be hard on ourselves alot of the time.
And, you know, I feel like it'svery popular thing right now
for, you know, for the, just,just give yourself grace.
Mm-hmm.
Saying, and I totally agree withthat.
I'm on, on board for givingyourself a lot of grace mm-hmm.
(34:45):
but what does that really looklike to give yourself grace and
just have self-compassion
Joanne (34:50):
Mm-hmm.
Great question.
So there is a lot of research onthis now.
You're right.
It's, it's like a pretty popularthing to be focused on, which is
like mindful self-compassion.
And I think some of it is reallyjust like a self-validation.
Mm-hmm.
like recognizing the reality.
Mm-hmm.
and Kristen Neff is a therapistand researcher who's at the
(35:11):
forefront of this.
And if you were to Google her,you'd, there's even.
She even has a meditation forcaregivers.
I, I can't remember where, butif you Googled it, you could
find it.
It's only a few minutes long.
And if you look at the researchit talks about I, I don't love
this way of thinking about it,but it, it still can be helpful.
Like if you had a friend withthe same situation, what would
(35:31):
you say to them?
Right?
And can you, Shaza that back toyourself.
Can you turn the mirror aroundand give that back to yourself?
I think, I think often when wecan't be self-compassionate,
there's something a little morecomplicated that's going on in
there.
Mm-hmm.
so that feels a littlebehavioral to me in a way that
may or may not work, dependingon somebody's sort of psychic
structure.
Mm-hmm.
But I do think that that's ahelpful way to think about it.
(35:53):
Like if you had a friend whoreally showed you what they were
struggling with.
Right.
How would you feel about them?
Mm-hmm.
if you were, if you could stepoutside yourself and see how
much you're carrying, like howwould you be kind to that
person?
What would you say to them?
So I think that that's a helpfulway to think about
self-compassion.
I also think, honestly, thatsome of self-compassion is about
(36:15):
self-care, right?
It's about actually making timeMm-hmm.
So I have a webinar that I'vegiven called Caring for the
Care.
Again, if you get on mynewsletter, I think I'm offering
it in 2023.
I don't know when I have itdate, but I don't, I don't
remember it.
Mm-hmm.
And some of what I talk about iswe do a time pie where you like,
make a quick pie, like a piegraph of like how you spend your
(36:39):
day and match it up to what arethe things you love to do, and
then see is there any overlapthere, Cause often for mothers,
there's.
And so how can you e out bits oftime to actually take care of
yourself in whatever way it isthat makes you feel happy and
nourished because that's also aform of self-compassion.
(36:59):
Mm-hmm.
right?
That we do need time, even ifit's 15 minutes.
Mm-hmm.
to just sit and do somethingthat's nourishing, that's not,
you know, scrolling on yourphone cuz I don't think that's
truly nourishing.
But I think those are componentsof self-compassion that are
really important.
Katie (37:13):
and I know for me, I used to feel very guilty about taking
time out of the day for myselfbecause.
There's just, you know, there'sjust always something to do in
terms of taking care of yourfamily.
But luckily I've worked throughsome of that and, you know, I
think it's perfectly fine totell your kids too, like, Hey,
for the next hour I'm gonna goand do this.
Whether it's reading a book orgoing for a walk, or whatever it
(37:35):
may be.
Whatever you find joy in doing.
You know, and I have said to mykids before, like, I'm, I am
your mom and my job is to keepyou safe and provided for and I
do that 23 hours of the day.
So for this next hour, I need totake care of myself.
Cause when I'm taking care ofmyself, I can, I'm less stressed
out.
I mean, I, I'll I say that tothem like, that's real.
(37:57):
Yeah.
I'm less stressed out and I'llbe able to take better care of
you.
So let me have this hour, andthen the rest of my day will be,
And they are fine with that.
They're like, Oh, like they,they get it.
And I think it's good for themto hear like, Oh, mommy gets
really stressed out sometimes,and she has to do this to take
care of herself.
Well, there's
Joanne (38:14):
so many messages in there, Katie, that are
important.
Not just mommy gets stressed outand this is a way to help mommy
not get stressed out.
But also it's important to getahead of that by self care and
that we, you know, what you'remodeling for them is you get to
engage in self care.
Mm-hmm.
Which, and I think our, I thinkculturally, I don't know.
I struggle with this a lot.
I think culturally there's a lotof messaging about how much we
(38:35):
should be doing all the time andaccomplishing, and how connected
we should be, and all the, youknow, it's very busy our lives
and so how do we get to slow itdown so it's just exactly in one
given hour or moment what wewant it to be.
Mm-hmm.
Katie (38:48):
Yeah.
So find something that you enjoymoms and dads out there, and,
and make time for it.
I.
You know, do what you have todo.
Luckily, my kids are old enoughnow.
I love to exercise and I usuallydo for, you know, an hour most
days of the week.
I'll go for a walk or I have abike, I'll ride a bike, or I'll
do some stretching or whatever.
Just movement helps me and beoutside too And luckily they're
(39:09):
old enough now to where I can,you know, I'm, even if I just go
for a walk around the block, I'mgonna go for a walk.
Yeah.
I'll stay close in case I needto come home.
But like, you're gonna be justfine
Joanne (39:18):
I totally agree.
I mean, I'm thinking about whenmy daughter was really little, I
was so tired all the time.
Mm-hmm.
and I would say to her, I'mgonna take a baby nap right now,
so you need to play quietly.
Cuz she'd be like two years oldand I would lie on the sofa with
her right next to me playing andI would fall asleep for just 10
minutes and it would, it would,you make my life a lot easier
and I was more functional andshe could do it.
(39:40):
Right.
We, we get to ask these thingsof our.
because it's important
Katie (39:43):
for us to take care of ourselves.
Yeah.
Here's a pro tip for parents.
Tell your kids you're gonna playhide and go seek and that you're
gonna hide first and then gohide somewhere where you can lay
down and just lay there.
Maybe it's in a bathtub with theshower curtain closed or bed
with the covers pulled up overyour head.
(40:03):
It's really great.
Joanne (40:04):
That's awesome.
It reminds me, a friend of minewas telling me that when she'd
go to the dentist, she also hadthree kids.
She'd go to the dentist andshe'd nearly fall asleep in the
chair.
You know, she's reclining.
She's so tired.
Mm-hmm.
I love that.
That's awesome.
Katie (40:17):
pro tip.
Hide and go seek in the dark,which I'm grateful that they
even still wanna like play hideand go seek with me.
Cuz they're, they are gettingolder, but now they like wanna
take it to the next level.
Like, okay, we're gonna turn offall the lights at night and
we're gonna have flashlightsand, and anyway, it's.
It's fun, but I can't take mynaps anymore really.
I guess I could.
Joanne (40:36):
You could certainly be reclining Sure.
Katie (40:42):
is there anything else that we haven't mentioned
already?
Like some good tools that justwe as parents can use to kind of
help when we're feeling a littleout of control with our feelings
and emotions mm-hmm.
That we can kind of use to kindof like you said, like
recalibrate, reset, and help toregulate things.
Mm-hmm.
Joanne (41:00):
Yeah, hard sometimes.
Right?
And I like that you used theword help to regulate things,
because the truth is when we'rereally in big feelings, we tend
to be a little dysregulated.
Not always.
Sometimes our sadness is justour sadness and we can sit with
it and be with it in acomfortable way, but sometimes
we get really kind of like, it,it's neurological, like our body
(41:20):
system is outta whack.
And so I have a few thoughtshere.
One is, Is that self-compassion,self-care piece, right?
So what do you do to getyourself back to regulated in
general?
And I do think often connectingwith another person is helpful
cuz you know, we've definedtrauma in some way.
This isn't always trauma, but wedefine trauma in some way as is
(41:43):
being dysregulated in a momentwithout having the support to
help us reregulate.
Right.
If there's a crisis, think aboutit.
If you're, you know, it could bea trauma for your child to have
a sibling.
Right?
And if they're totally alonewith that trauma and they have
no parent there, no adult theresaying, Yep, it makes sense.
Yep.
You feel angry.
Yep.
You feel sad.
Yep.
(42:03):
You don't feel like you'regetting enough attention.
They're trying to regulate it ontheir own and they might not be
able to.
They likely can't.
Right.
in those moments when we'redysregulated, we often need
company.
I'm a big believer in company.
So who is your company?
Right?
Maybe a spouse, maybe a parent,maybe a best friend, maybe a
support group, whatever it is.
The other thing and, and thenthe self care piece, which we
(42:23):
talked about before, which islike, I can't come up with a
list for you.
Your list, you, Katie, like toget some movement.
Great.
You might pet a dog, you mightread a book, you might cook a
meal, whatever it is.
Mm-hmm.
But the last thing, and Ireferenced this just a few
minutes ago, is like recognizingthat it's a part of you.
Like if you can get enoughdistance from yourself, which is
not always easy to do, and youcan be like, Oh, this isn't me
(42:46):
at my best.
This is me feeling, having a lotof hard feelings and being
compassionate about that.
But noticing and rememberingthat you could come back to your
grounded best self, that is avery helpful.
To be able to do it takes, thattakes work, right?
To be able to really observeyourself in that way and slow
down your own process.
(43:06):
But that's a goal always for allof us.
Katie (43:08):
I think, I think it's a good reminder about the company
piece too.
Cause I know there's been somany times where I was supposed
to go meet a friend forsomething or even just go on a
date with my husband and mm-hmm.
sometimes you just feel soexhausted that you're like, I
just don't even know if I can dothat.
but I, I.
Would push through a lot of thetimes and still, you know, I
wouldn't cancel plans.
I don't like to do that.
(43:29):
Especially if I made acommitment.
But I, you know, there, there'snever been a social interaction
that I've gone to that's nottrue.
I do get worn out with likeweddings where you have to make
a lot of small talk, but butwe're talking about just like an
intimate dinner with a friend ortwo.
There's never been a socialinteraction like that that I've
gone to where I've.
Of feeling like I reallyshouldn't have done that.
(43:49):
That just wiped me out evenmore.
Like I've always felt energizedby that and mm-hmm.
just to be in the company ofsomething, it takes my mind off
of whatever is currently goingon at home or with diabetes or
whatever, so.
Mm-hmm.
definitely encourage people to,Remember that and seek out and,
and you know, a lot of peopleare like, Well, I don't, I don't
have any friends, or I don't,you know, a lot of people really
(44:10):
feel that way.
And to that I just say, you justgotta get weird.
Like, you've gotta literally gohunt these people down.
Joanne (44:17):
I totally agree with you.
And yeah.
And I think we have a, this is alittle off topic, but we have a
sort of crisis of lone.
In our culture.
Right.
A lot of people who feeldisconnected mm-hmm.
and, you know, everybody isfeeling the same way.
And so if you reach out tosomeone, it's not, it's
actually, it's people want that.
So I like how you say we gottaget weird, but it's, it's true.
(44:40):
We have to, we have to take thestep, We have to overcome the
fear that we'll be rejected.
And if And if it's not ourperson, it's not our person,
that's fine.
Yeah.
Right?
Katie (44:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, Joanne, thank you again.
I think it was another greatepisode.
Lots of nuggets of wisdom forall those type one parents out
there.
Thank you again.
Joanne (44:57):
Thank you, Katie.
I love being here and talking toyou.
Katie (44:59):
Yes, I feel the same.
All right.
Signing off.
That's it for our episodeJoanne, we'll be back for one
more episode with me next week.
I'm really excited about thatone that is going to be on
relationships and type onediabetes.
All those strains on ourrelationships, whether it's with
family members, spouses,friends, our child.
(45:23):
We're going to kind of dive inand talk about that and how to
work through some of those.
Relational stressors.
Make sure you check out thelinks in our show notes, I will
leave a link to Joanne'swebsite, diabetes, sweet
talk.com.
And there you can find links toall of Joanne's other endeavors,
such as her coaching courses,her podcast.
And some of her amazing blogposts.
(45:45):
All right guys.
I'll be back next week.
To talk more diabetes.
But until then stay calm andbolus on.
This is episode 90 of the sugar mamas podcast.
And you are in for a treattoday.
I am back with Joanne And todaywe're going to be talking about
all those feelings and emotionsthat come along with being the
caregiver for somebody livingwith type one diabetes.
There's a lot of emotions, guys.
Uh, lots of big feelings and bigemotions that we've got to walk
(00:21):
through and work through as theparent of a type one diabetic.
Just a reminder that Joanne wason the previous two episodes
with me.
The first one episode, 88 was onanxiety.
And then the second one she didwith me was episode 89.
And that was on validation.
What is it?
And how do we do it?
(00:42):
Well, Joanne is apsychotherapist and a fellow T
one D parent.
She has three kids, two of whichhave been living with type one
diabetes for quite some time.
Joanne has her therapy practicein the state of California.
But she also offers coachingcourses.
For parents and caregivers oftype one diabetics.
Nationwide.
You can also check out andregister for her coaching
(01:04):
courses on our website.
Again, that's diabetes.
Sweet talk.com.
Be sure to click the dark purplebanner at the top of the page
where you can submit yourquestions to be answered by
Joanne.
And you can even be a guest onher podcast, which is sweet.
Talk for parents of kids withtype one diabetes.
Just in case you were concerned,you can always submit a question
(01:28):
anonymously.
I just love Joanne.
I love what she's doing.
I love her podcast.
I just think she's such a gymfor the type one community and
is going to help so many people.
Okay.
Without further ado, let's getstarted.
You're listening to the sugarmamas podcast, a show designed
(01:50):
for moms and caregivers of typeone diabetics here.
You'll find a community oflike-minded people who are
striving daily to keep theirkids safe, happy, and healthy in
the ever-changing world of typeone.
I'm your host and fellow T one Dmom, Katie Roseboro.
Before we get started.
(02:10):
I need you to know that nothingyou hear on the sugar mamas
podcast should be consideredmedical advice.
Please be safe, be smart, andalways consult your physician
before making changes to the wayyou manage type one diabetes.
Thanks.
All right.
I am back this week with Joanne.
(02:31):
Rob, just a reminder, Joanne isa psychotherapist.
She's also a type one mama oftwo kids with type one diabetes
and one other child that doesnot have type one diabetes.
Joanne (02:44):
We like to remember that.
Katie (02:45):
Child Right.
Exactly.
We can't forget the other child.
and in Joanne's practice and inthe courses that she offers for
type one parents, she dealsprimarily with the emotional and
relational challenges that comealong with managing Type one
diabetes day in and day out.
And Joanne, I was curious beforewe started recording, I don't
know if you've ever said it.
(03:05):
Do you work just with parentsand caregivers of Type one
diabetics or do you also workwith some T1 DS?
Joanne (03:12):
So in my coaching courses I only work with
parents.
Mm-hmm.
But in my practice I work with awide range of things.
Like I'm actually a certifiedcouples therapist and I work
with adults with Type one, and Iwork with eating disorders and I
work with a whole range ofthings in my private practice.
But in my coaching courses, yes,it's just for parents of kids
with.
(03:32):
Got it.
Katie (03:32):
Okay.
All right.
So Joan and I have already donetwo episodes.
The first one, was on anxietyand just navigating anxiety, and
through the lens of managingtype one.
And then, last one was onvalidation.
Just what is validation and howto do it well.
And today we are talking aboutall the feelings and emotions
that can come along with, beingthe parent of someone with type
(03:52):
one diabetes.
So, I think what we're gonna dois just kind of go down the list
of maybe common emotions andfeelings and just kind of talk
through.
You know, how those might beexperienced by different people,
what that might look like, andthen how to validate those
emotions.
Okay.
Right?
Yep.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we're gonna start with anger,which.
A big one.
(04:13):
You know, I, I think a lot ofkids, I know my daughter
definitely has moments where shefeels very angry at Type one
diabetes.
She's pretty, she's pretty quietperson, so she doesn't really
express that by like, throwingthings against the wall or
yelling at people.
But, you know, I, I kind of seeit in her.
So, I guess unwillingness to dothings to take care of her
(04:37):
diabetes, you know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know if you would callthat procrastination or maybe
just denial, but she just, Iguess, gets burned out and angry
at diabetes and, and doesn'twanna do it, so.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
How have you experienced angerwith your kids and with the
parents of people?
You, you know, the parents thatyou've helped in your mm-hmm.
through your courses.
Mm-hmm.
Joanne (04:56):
So, it's interesting because when I think about anger
I don't think that as being theprimary presentation for most
parents, Right.
The primary presentation formost parents has to do with
sadness, I think, and guilt andsome fear.
Mm-hmm.
recently ish.
Actually I was working with acouple and the dad was really
angry.
Very, very newly diagnosed.
(05:17):
And I do think that there can bea gender difference here, right?
Because for men, anger is justcoded as more appropriate
culturally than for.
But for the kids.
Absolutely.
Katie for the kids anger is canbe a really primary
presentation.
Mm-hmm.
and I wanna name that burnoutand anger don't necessarily
always go together.
So you're saying for yourdaughter, you know, you see
(05:38):
burnout and procrastination.
I don't think that only could beled from anger.
There could be other thingsthere.
Just plain old exhaustion,right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But um, I think.
And this references what werecorded for our last epi, my
last episode with you is I thinkit's about validating it, right?
Mm-hmm.
they have every reason to beangry that this thing got heaped
(05:59):
on them.
And that, you know, I thinksometimes about primary emotion
versus secondary emotion.
So the way I think about this isif I were a fly on the wall
looking at what was happening,what would I.
And in your daughter's case,what I would see is
procrastination and not wantingto, But what you're saying, and
I trust you, right, because youknow her so well, you're in the
(06:19):
room with her.
You've lived with her so long.
Is that underneath that, theprimary emotion that's driving
it is anger?
Mm-hmm.
For adults, I often think theanger is the secondary motion.
It's the thing I would see if Iwere a fly on the wall.
Mm-hmm.
But underneath it is likely.
Right.
Does that make
Katie (06:35):
sense?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, I'll be, to be quitehonest, I don't know.
I don't know what the primaryemotion that she's experiencing
is.
I mean, I don't know that I'veever just come out and asked
her, Hey, what are you feelingright now that that'd probably
be a good place to start,Mm-hmm.
Joanne (06:51):
And kids don't always know how to answer that
question, so sometimes we takesuppositions, we like make a
little guess, and we say, Iwonder if you ever feel angry
about this.
Like it would make so much.
Right, so that she gets a lot ofpermission for that feeling cuz
kids often can't link up whatthey're feeling on the inside
with the words and the conceptthat we have of what that
emotion is, right.
Katie (07:10):
Yeah, I'm, I'm wondering where we should go from here.
Like, I wanna, I kind of wannatalk more about anger.
But where, where do you think,what do you think we should talk
about next in terms of anger?
Joanne (07:19):
Well, it's interesting cuz this list, this is also me
just talking to you, this list.
I feel like when you say, Howare we gonna validate all these
feelings, I feel like it's kindof the same drum.
that really all of them makessense.
And that parents come to all ofthe, you know, we each, it's
like those stages of grief,which I'm not, you know, Kuer
Ross's stages of grief, whichI'm not gonna quite remember all
of them, but there's angernegotiation, mourn.
(07:40):
Mm-hmm.
sadness.
It's, it's the same thing.
And I think we cycle throughthese feelings over and over.
I think the way I picture thisoften is it's like a spiral.
It's like it, it comes up, itgets easier and easier, but we
still hit the same emotionsagain and again.
Mm-hmm.
right?
There's a moment where you'reon, I'm thinking of a moment
with My son, we were on vacationand we were scuba diving, not
(08:03):
scuba diving, snorkeling, and Iknew he was low, like I had no
evidence for it.
I just was like watching him inthe water.
I was in a boat and I was like,He's not safe right now.
And so I had the people in theboat.
Roll me over to him and I hadhim stick his finger in the boat
and I dried it off and I did thefinger stick and I was right.
He was low.
And there's this feeling of likedeep sadness that that has to be
(08:25):
part of our life.
And we were years into diagnosisby then.
Mm-hmm.
I think, I feel like, you know,when my daughter was diagnosed,
I remember weeping of all thingsbecause I was like, How will she
wear a wedding dress like this?
She was four years old and thiswas the thing in the front of my
mind, So I feel like we cyclethrough these emotions and mm.
Our kids do too, right?
They cycle through anger, theycycle through sadness, they
(08:48):
cycle through exhaustion.
They cycle through all theseplaces.
So with a, I guess that could beon, but like the, where do you
go from here?
It's confusing because likethere's just a whole jumble of
feelings that come up.
Yeah.
And I think some of the task isto give ourselves permission.
that does that they're normal.
Katie (09:04):
Yeah.
Well, and that's probably agreat place to go with that
because you know, as I kind ofpaused and thought like.
I think that was really myhesitation is that I really just
kind of dawned on me like justnow that you can't, it's hard to
isolate these emotions.
Yeah.
Because they're often justtogether.
and you, you're right.
Like I know that I canpersonally cycle in and out of
(09:25):
many of them.
Often quickly, usually quickly.
Yep.
And a lot of times it's maybeeven during an activity that is,
you know, labeled as a happyactivity.
Like you just mentioned.
You guys are, you're onvacation, you're or out for a
family outing.
You're scuba diving, you'reexperiencing something new and
fun, but yet there's this.
Moment of like a way, like alittle wave, Like a little wave
(09:48):
of sadness.
Yeah.
Like a reminder that oh, this iswhat it is.
And I hate that for my kid.
Yeah.
We ha I had a similar experienceat Sarah's at our birthday party
last year.
You know, we went to a littlelike arts and craft place where
they did like woodworking andthen they got to paint it and
all that.
And there was another friendthere with diabetes.
But you know, I just rememberlike.
When the food came out, like wehad to you know, I had to go
(10:10):
around and tell her, like how,remind her how many carbs were
in the cupcake and she had toget out her controller and do
the, you know, do the insulinfor the pump.
And, and you know, you, it's notlike, it's not like the record.
The music stopped and everythingwas silent and everybody stopped
to stare at her.
But you know, you.
There's definitely a feeling oflike, people are looking and
people have stopped and peopleknow that this is something
(10:30):
different that she has to do,that most of the other people in
the room don't have to do.
and I didn't like focus on,focus on that really like, you
know, I just, we just kind of,Okay, there's 30 cards in this
cupcake but I just rememberhaving this very brief moment of
just feeling so.
Sad, like almost like a littlemini session of grieving all
over again, the life thatmm-hmm.
(10:51):
we have lost from beforediagnosis.
Yeah.
But you know, in the overallscheme of thing, that was a very
happy event.
Joanne (10:57):
No.
And I, I love, I love Katie thatyou're so attuned to yourself,
right.
That you can.
Know that it's there because Ithink that's the most real, Like
at the beginning there's bigfeelings generally, right?
There's big feelings of panic,there's big feelings of, you
know anxiety.
There's, there's feelings ofsadness.
I, I see a lot of guilt.
Which breaks my heart, honestly.
(11:18):
A lot of moms in particular whofeel like, if I had breast fed
more, if I hadn't fed this, if Ihadn't done this thing, if I,
you know, and I feel like it,you know, we can beat ourselves
up till the cows come home, butnone of that's actually proven
or real.
And it just feels like, I wishfor those parents that they
could set that behind them.
Like we just need to lookforward, which is easier said
than done, but You know, thereare those big, big feelings at
(11:40):
the beginning, and then as wemove through our lives with our
kids managing this, I think thefeelings get to be less.
It's almost like you're lookingthrough a telescope backwards.
Right.
It's not bringing it into sharpfocus.
It's far away, but it's stillwith us.
Mm-hmm.
and it's not with us always, butit's still with us often.
and we cycle around and around,and.
(12:01):
I think those feelings are real.
And for the kids, I think it'sthe same thing, right?
I think that's what, I haven'tdone an exhaustive thinking
about this, but like burnout,I'm gonna put that in quotes.
Like I think that and I'mputting in quotes cuz I think
that there's exhaustion with itand then people get
reinvigorated and then they'reexhausted again.
Like, it's not, it's not aconstant state.
It's like everything is fluidand changing and, and the
(12:23):
emotions shift.
Katie (12:24):
Yeah.
And it's probably not fair tocompare diabetes management to
like going on a diet, but I can,when you said that, it just
makes me think of going on adiet.
You know, you, you get motivatedand you're like, I'm gonna do
this.
It's gonna be awesome.
And then you start and it'slike, you know, usually very
restrictive.
And then you get tired of it andsick of it, and you really want
a cheeseburger, and so you kindaget burned out.
(12:44):
Then you might come back to itin a couple months or whatever
the case may be, but mm-hmm.
Joanne (12:48):
But Yeah.
You know, that's such a, that'ssuch an interesting example
because the research on diets isthat they don't work.
But with diabetes we don't havea choice but to make it work.
And so I think the kids I seewho do.
Who have a particularly positiverelationship to it?
Not always, but they, their,their parents actually often get
them involved in studies andthey change technology a lot.
(13:10):
And so they're really fluentwith all kinds of different ways
of relating to it so that theycan keep it fresh.
Right.
If you put on a different pumpor if you changed it injections
or if you use different insulinsor like, I interviewed someone
recently who uses.
she's gotta be in her latetwenties and she uses a lot of
different insulins depending onwhat she eats.
And I'm like, Wow, okay.
(13:30):
That's like beyond my pay gradefor sure.
But it keeps her really fresh.
I, I think those are ways thatwe can help our kids is, you
know, trying a new pump orgetting them in a study if it's
available to us.
I mean, I know not everyonelives in those places where that
is, but I think that, you know,community connection, all those
things keep it reinvigoratedbecause it's not a diet.
They don't have a.
Katie (13:51):
Yeah.
I know.
I feel I get a little a littlebit more invigorated when we do
switch it up a little bit, youknow, like, switch to a
different system or maybe we'lltry a new insulin or whatever.
That does invigorate me.
I can't, I can't speak forSarah, but and that's probably a
good thing to keep in mind too,for families that go to their
endocrinologist and want to trysomething new but are hesitant
to ask maybe.
(14:12):
This is not a, a healthy emotionby any means, but, you know,
there's been times where I'mlike, I almost feel bad asking
because I'm like, I know y'allare busy and you gotta fill out
all this paperwork and you mighthave to send in a prior
authorization, but like, wereally wanna try this.
And but that would be a good wayto maybe talk to your
endocrinologist to it.
Like, Hey, we're kind of feelinglike we're in a rut and I'm
(14:32):
trying something new.
Would really help to kind oflike shift our perspective and,
and maybe give us a little bitmore energy than we're currently
dealing with.
And, and we might not stick withit, but I think it would help
even just mentally, emotionallyto try, try something new and
get shaken out, shaken out ofthe mundane, you know?
Yep.
Joanne (14:50):
I think that's actually a great idea.
Hadn't thought about it likethat.
And I wanna encourage you tothink about, to me, that's your,
I I, I find this with a lot ofparents too, that there's a
hesitation to ask for the helpthat they need.
And I feel like you, in yourstory, Katie, seem like you have
a lot of family support.
Mm-hmm.
a lot of parents don't.
Right.
And so they hesitate to even askfor the community support that
(15:11):
they need and that, Right.
Mm-hmm.
but also the endocrinologistsupport.
Mm-hmm.
like, we need it, we deserve it,and we need to find a team where
we feel comfortable asking forwhat we need so that we can, you
know, track of our emotionalhealth as well as our kids'.
Physical health.
Katie (15:27):
Um, And I might approach it, I'm actually currently
advocate for less annual visitsat our Oh yeah.
Onologist, because they want usto come every three months.
And I mean, listen, I just thinkthat's excessive personally,
especially if we have goodcontrol.
But that might be a good way toapproach it too.
Like, Hey, we like are feelingburned out.
Like we, we have good control,but like coming here every three
(15:47):
months is a little exhausting.
Can we please, Go back, youknow, take, take a little bit of
that away.
I don't know.
We'll see.
Yeah.
I'm getting some push back inthat area, but that's for
another episode.
Perhaps
Joanne (15:58):
I I would listen to that episode.
I'm, I'm having the samestruggle,
Katie (16:02):
Yeah.
Its okay.
So I kinda wanna talk a littlebit about the guilt, mm-hmm.
that you mentioned earlier.
You know, a lot of.
I'm very thankful that thatactually is not something that I
struggled with and I don'treally know why that is.
My personality maybe, but I ne Ididn't, I never got stuck on
the.
Oh my gosh, I gave this to mychild.
Or, you know, something in our,I can tell you for sure that
(16:22):
there are lots of autoimmunedisorders in our family.
I have one, my sister has one,my mom has one.
I mean, there's, there's astrong history of autoimmune
disorders.
So, and Sarah knows that cuz shehas asked like, where did I get
diabetes from?
And I'm like, Well, nobody gaveyou diabetes.
Just something that happened.
I said, but we do have a verystrong history of autoimmune
(16:42):
disorders and type one is alsoan autoimmune disorder.
And you know, we kind of talkedabout that a little bit, but I
don't, I don't know, It's, I'venever felt guilt about that
because it's ju I just feel likeit's out of my control.
Mm-hmm.
And there's really what can bedone.
Nothing.
Nothing can be done to change.
what has happened?
So how, how do you, whensomebody comes to you and is
just feeling, just burdened withthis huge, you know, weight of
(17:03):
guilt over their kid'sdiagnosis, how do you help them
through that?
Joanne (17:08):
Well, it's interesting with any feeling, right?
When some, And also it dependsif they're coming as a therapist
or as a coach, like my hats areslightly different.
But in general, what I would sayis you can't talk people out of
their feelings.
Mm-hmm.
right?
Like, I'm with you.
I didn't.
I didn't feel guilty.
And actually with my daughter, Ihad some good reasons too.
Like I had a thyroid condition.
(17:30):
I had to take medication throughmy pregnancy with her.
So it feels like it was evenmore of a setup for her.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
But I also feel like shewouldn't be here if I hadn't
made those choices.
So, you know, those, those are,the gift was she got to have her
life and the bad thing was that,you know, she has diabetes in
her life.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I'm not, I, I wouldn'tsay I'm responsible for it, but
(17:52):
certainly the genetics are thereand I had to take this
medication and all those things.
Right?
Yeah.
But somehow that's not where Igo.
And you can't talk someone outof it, right?
You can.
Mm-hmm.
you can't talk someone out ofany feeling that they have.
Really what you can do isvalidate it and gently point to
the places where you think theirthinking might be flawed.
(18:13):
Right.
So, I'm trying to think ofanother example other than
guilt, but.
But I guess let's stay withguilt.
I think, I think that guilt alsocomes from a place as a parent
of imagining that you can createa perfect problem free life for
your child.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Which is just not real.
And we do want that for ourkids.
We hate to watch them suffer inany way.
(18:33):
And with type one, we knowthere's plenty of extra kid
suffering that's happeningmm-hmm.
But we can't make that happenfor our children.
We can't make it.
middle school is easy, let'ssay, or that they're gonna get
straight A's in high school andnever suffer that.
No one ever says anything meanto them.
Mm-hmm.
this is part we all get kind offorged in fire.
And so I think it's really justrecognizing and sitting with
(18:57):
somebody's emotion while yousort of gently point to the fact
that there are some other piecesand ways for them to recalibrate
the emotion, right?
Mm-hmm.
there are other, there's otherdata that they could take in
about what they're feeling thatmight help, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I think to point out tosomeone who feels guilty, like,
yeah, it makes sense, right?
You don't want your child tosuffer like this, and you feel
like somehow you wereomniscient, you had all the
(19:19):
power.
And you could have kept themfrom from this disease and that
we both know that's not real.
Mm-hmm.
right?
Cause that's where it comesfrom, is this idea.
And I think especially firstchildren, we really do have an
idea that we can protect them.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
That we are all powerful, we canprotect them.
And diabetes is a big slamaround that one.
Right?
Cuz we can't, and we, we aren'tYeah.
Katie (19:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
Hmm.
Yeah, I mean, again, I'm verythankful that I have never felt
weighed down by that guilt, butI know a lot, I see it a lot in
social media postings of justpeople just feeling like it's
their fault, you know?
Yeah.
Just can't get past that.
And usually that comes kind ofright at the beginning, like you
said, when there's all these bigemotions and, and whatnot.
All right.
Let's see you.
Okay, so on the list I hadanger, sadness.
(20:05):
Mm-hmm.
guilt, fear and worry.
Mm-hmm.
Grief, resentment.
and shame.
Whew.
Yeah.
I mean, I can, I can relate toall of these some more so than
others.
Not, not so much the guilt one.
I know I just talked about that,but, But the, like, for
instance, the fear and worry, Iknow I've already expressed to
you that like, I don't worry alot about her medical state,
(20:26):
like her physical medical state,which I probably should worry
more about it, but but I worrymore about like the emotional
toll and the, I just think aboutmyself as a mom.
It's hard to be a mom, Itdoesn't matter if your kids have
chronic medical conditions orhave nothing at all.
It's, it's just parenting isjust hard.
So I think about that and thenyou throw on like one day she's
(20:49):
gonna be hope, hopefully Godwilling, be a mom managing her
family and then also managingtype one and hope, you know, by
that time it'll hopefully bevery, Routine for her and you
know, just something that isdone.
You know, kind of like just howyou would you know, you brush
your teeth a couple times a day.
Again, it's not fair to comparethe two because there's a lot
more involved with type onemanagement.
(21:09):
But I think, you know what I'mtrying to say.
Thank, do.
Joanne (21:12):
Yeah.
I think that that's, I, Iactually, we've, you said that
to me in a different time.
We've gathered about beingworried about your daughter's
mental health and mm-hmm.
you know, I, I suspect Katie,you're taking very good care of
her physical health mm-hmm.
Right?
And as that's getting even moreand more routine, You know,
you're saying you don't need togo to the doctor four times a
year.
There's a reason for that.
Right?
You don't need the handholdingof it.
(21:33):
You feel like her numbers arebasically in good control and
it's, it's enough.
Like you don't need all theappointments and the expense and
all the things.
But you're right that theemotional piece is heavy You're
focusing on what I think isreal, which is that there are
gonna be some extra weights forher and there's some.
Worry that you have, you know,you're a mom of three, you know
how busy you are, and then youthink about adding, like, how
(21:56):
would one add blood sugarcontrol into this?
You know, it feels like a lot.
And I'm, I think it, I think itis.
Mm-hmm.
so that makes sense to me thatyou think about that.
And there, I think that woven inthere though, you're identifying
it as like, you, you, you led tothis story from fear.
Mm-hmm.
but I hear in there sadness,mourn.
Mm-hmm.
(22:16):
right, Because it is, And that,and that's why I think it's kind
of like there's often not oneclean emotion.
It's often a jumble of things.
That are in the soup when wethink about our kids with
diabetes.
As parents.
Katie (22:30):
Yeah.
And that literally dawned on me10 or so minutes ago when I
started talking about it.
I'm like, Wait, I can't isolate.
There's, there's like lots ofemotions going on all at once.
Yeah, no, you're, I thinkthere's, I'm, I've said this
before too, that definitely theprimary motion I feel like I can
identify throughout this wholething has been just sadness and
I don't spit in it.
And so in it, Yep.
All the time.
(22:50):
Not by any means, but I justhave waves and usually when
they're, when I have waves, it'sa, it's a feeling of sadness.
So, no fun, fun.
No fun.
Um, Resentment
Joanne (22:59):
is one that kind of mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I wanna pull that up cuz I feellike that's one that not a lot
of parents are gonna talk about.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Especially about with theirchild.
They're gonna talk about it interms of their doctor, in terms
of insurance, in terms of a lotof other things.
Right.
Because there's lots of ways tobe resentful in those things.
Mm-hmm.
but sometimes we actually getresentful of our kids too.
(23:20):
Mm-hmm.
And I think that that can happenmore when they're teenagers,
when we know that I've askedthem or trying to get them to do
the thing, whatever it is, andthey don't do the thing.
Mm-hmm.
and then we're up all nightbecause of it, or we're worrying
more because of it.
And that can, that, that's real.
Right.
And I think resentment canreally be in there.
(23:42):
I, I would say resentment islike a first cousin to anger,
right?
They're really the same, in thesame bucket.
And we do get angry at ourchildren.
We also get angry at thedisease, right?
Because it derails us think ofhow much more we could do in our
lives that we could choose forourselves if we didn't have this
monkey on our back.
Katie (24:01):
Yeah.
I know I've.
I've been dealing with like someresentment with work lately.
It's hard to be a parent of atype one and then also be always
available for your job and yourcareer.
Mm-hmm.
It's really hard to be mom andbe always be for your job in
your career.
But yeah, no, I feel that.
I feel that in several.
Y Yeah.
Ways just, you know even likeyou touched on it in another
(24:21):
episode about when somebody,even just in passing, like a
flippant comment of like afriend saying, Oh, I'm so tired,
and you, you just kind ofimmediately go to this place in
your head where you're like, Ifyou only knew and I don't wanna
feel that way.
And I, and I don't wanna feelthat resentment and that, you
know, anger.
and I, I don't think we're all,you know, maybe we'll never be
immune to that.
(24:41):
But I think there's certainlysome healthier ways to deal with
it,
Joanne (24:44):
well, I think it's hard and I think it takes time, you
know, and I think, Like I don'tget as angry about it as like
reactive internally when peopledo that to me now.
And I'm trying to actually thinkwhy that is.
And I think part of it is thatI'm just really comfortable in
my seat that, yeah, this is whatI got.
I am managing this the best Ican.
The rest of the world reallydoesn't understand this.
(25:04):
Some people get it better thanother people, right?
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And I've also done more work totake better care of.
So that I do feel lessresentment when people just talk
about their own normal lives,right?
Mm-hmm.
Cause as you said, being aparent is hard no matter what,
and it is,
Katie (25:20):
Agreed.
Well, and I feel, do some workin myself to be genuinely happy
for people, celebrating them inall walks of life, you know?
Yeah.
I, I wanna celebrate people whensomething good happens for them,
or, I want to be happy for them,you know, that they don't have
to deal with us on a dailybasis.
Mm-hmm.
does that, does that make sense?
Absolutely.
(25:41):
So, I mean, you know, I, peoplekind of get to that point in
different ways.
For me, it's taken a lot ofprayer, in practice and so yeah,
I mean it's, I don't know.
These are just very realemotions.
Joanne (25:53):
Yeah, they are.
And I.
I think you're pointing tosomething, and this is like,
this is just us talking as twopeople.
This isn't like a therapyconcept really, but I feel like
the question somehow becomeslike, who is your best person?
Who, who do you wanna be?
I guess that is a little bit ofa therapy concept.
We have this idea of like ourbest, the best self.
You know, but it's hard withdiabetes sometimes to be our
(26:13):
best self.
There's a lot that, there's morethat gets in the way, let's say
it that way.
I think that it's always hard,like living life is challenging.
Mm-hmm.
And it's more challenging whenwe have this monkey that keeps,
you know, weighing us down.
I mean, I remember one daypaying the bill for the kids,
whatever supplies I have noidea.
And thinking.
Wow.
If I had, I could go on avacation.
(26:34):
Like it just think, I don't, andI don't like to think about it
because I think I'd be so angrymm-hmm.
that I'm spending all this moneyon something that I don't want.
Mm-hmm.
wasn't budgeted for all thethings.
I mean, that's a small example,
Katie (26:47):
but, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What about um, shame shame's on?
Joanne (26:51):
shame is tricky and I, I I have a friend who actually was
super generous to us.
She has a daughter who is in mydaughter's class in elementary
and middle school, and a bunchof years ago, this is pre
pandemic, so you know, whatever,pick a date.
She said to me, It must bereally hard.
Your daughter can't really go ona sleepover like she attended to
(27:11):
my experience in a way that wascompletely lovely and she.
I'll take her.
And I was like, But you'll losein night to sleep.
She's like, I don't mind.
Hmm.
Which was amazing.
And she took her for a fewsleepovers and then ironically,
and sadly, her son who wasolder, got diagnosed.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
Really am kind of a weird Aweird turn of events.
And I remember taking mydaughter to her house after he
(27:34):
had been diagnosed and she hadhad whatever she had had for
breakfast, and she was 350, youknow, because we hadn't dosed
right for it, whatever it was.
And I remember having this bighit of shame because my friend
was new enough that, first ofall, her son was still in h.
Everyone was behav, you know,everything was weighed and
measured.
Everything was, you know, andI'm so far past that, that we
(27:56):
make lots of mistakes.
Mm-hmm.
And so I had this hit of shameof like, Oh, she's gonna judge
me cause I'm not doing a goodenough job of managing.
And I really had to talk myselfdown from that.
I mean, I don't think that's aprimary way that shame shows up,
but I think it, I think it canbe like, I think there's this I,
and I think that, You know, outthere in uh, social media land,
(28:16):
right?
There's so much talk about likehaving the perfect flat line,
having the perfect a1c, and thatone kills me because there's, I,
I don't know what the researchis actually like.
If you have an a1c that's 5.7,is your life appreciably
different than if you have anA1C of seven as a type one?
Mm-hmm.
I, I just don't know what theresearch is, but I feel like
(28:37):
people are in a state of feelinginadequate, which isn't quite
the same as shame, but if they,if it's shown mm-hmm.
they feel shame, Right.
And that just makes me so sadfor parents because I feel like
we are struggling enough.
Or you feel shame cuz your kidisn't doing what your kid should
be doing.
As though we have full controlover our children all the time,
which we absolutely do not.
(28:58):
But I think those are ways thatshame can show up and, and it
can, I wouldn't call this shameexactly, but this references
back to something we talkedabout earlier.
It's about like, not getting thehelp you need, Right?
Like I'm burdening you.
And that is a thing I hear alot.
There's a, in, in my coach, oneof my coaching courses, I have a
whole flow chart of all thethings you might say to yourself
(29:19):
mm-hmm.
about how you're not allowed toget help and support how you
might be burdening people andall the things you could say
back to yourself.
Right.
Because it, it, there's thisidea that we should be sort of
perfectly independent and it's alittle bit to the side of shame,
but it, I think it's related.
Katie (29:34):
Yeah.
I do feel like I've gotten a lotbetter about asking for, for
help.
And that's, that's a humblingexperience for Oh, yeah.
For a lot of people.
Cause you, want to give theimpression that you've got it
under control, right?
But sometimes you just gotta,you gotta ask for the help.
But, and I'm very fortunate tohave a fantastic support system
in mm-hmm.
the city that I'm in with familyand friends.
(29:54):
So, I feel very fortunate inthat.
But yeah, I had that, I think Italked about it on the first
podcast or at some point in timetalking to you, but I had that
experience of shame when we wentto the endocrinologist last time
because yes, we, I mean, I'venever shown up to an
endocrinology appointment withmy daughter's blood sugar in the
three s and here we were and,you know, I felt like
(30:16):
embarrassed almost.
Yeah.
Or like, I don't, I don't knowwhat the word is.
Shame I guess would be the word.
Um, but I recognize that thegood thing is that I recognize
that, that like, oh my gosh, I'mfeeling this way and there's
really no reason why I should befeeling this way.
Because things get forgotten.
People make mistakes, and justnot every day's gonna be
perfect.
So I remember.
Trying to make a very consciouseffort to like not show that on
(30:39):
my face or with my words.
And cuz I didn't want, I didn'twant my daughter to feel I mean,
you know, I didn't want her tofeel ashamed.
I actually texted one of my goodfriends who has a daughter with
type one as well, and I said,I'm really debating right now if
I.
This is awful.
I'm like, should I throw mydaughter under the bus and like
maybe like make her wake up tothe fact that we need to do
(31:01):
things a little differentlysometimes.
Or do I just smile and nod and.
You know, move on with my day.
And she was like, Yeah, toughcall.
I'm gonna go with smile and nodand move
Joanne (31:13):
Cause real tempted to
Katie (31:14):
throw somebody on the, under the bus right now.
And it's because I didn't wantit, it, I didn't want it to be a
reflection on me in
Joanne (31:20):
the way.
Absolutely.
I was thinking that same thing.
Right?
And, and how much our childrenare an extension of ourselves.
And so when they, I'm gonna putthis one in big fat quotes when
they behave badly cuz it thiscom, you know, if your.
is the kid in preschool whobites the other kid.
You feel kind of bad, right?
Right.
And at two and three, ourchildren really are much more
(31:40):
merged with us at 10, at 15,they become more and more
independent.
We aren't them.
They aren't us.
They might forget something.
And also it's like shrug.
It's not even a smile and nod.
It's like, yeah, we have one ofthose days we forgot.
You know?
Yeah.
It's just what it is, but I getit.
Right.
Yeah.
We want our kids to be perfectand present themselves
perfectly, so.
Because it's a reflection on us,our family, the whole.
Katie (32:02):
So I feel like underneath that whole scenario was really,
it was, it was a pride issue,you know?
For me, yeah.
For me.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, because I want, you know,I wanted to, our data presented
really nicely, but like, if youlooked at the current real time
number, it's like, oh my gosh,this is a rollercoaster
situation.
So yeah, I, I didn't want it to,Reflect, reflect lab on me as a
(32:24):
person and a parent.
Mm-hmm.
So I had to, I was having alittle mini therapy session in
my head while we were sittingthere.
And it was fine.
I mean, you know, that we, we'vebeen there at that number many
times before that it justhappened that, that was the
morning that we had to go to theendocrinology appointments.
Yep.
Yeah.
And to remind myself that oftoo, you know, of that too.
Like I, this is just gonnahappen sometimes.
(32:46):
Hopefully not too frequently,but it's just gonna happen.
We don't need to wallow in shameover
Joanne (32:50):
it.
Yeah.
I, I think one thing I wannanotice about everything you're
talking about in your ownstories is that, that you have
like multiple characters in yourhead and this is, this is really
normal.
We all have different parts.
So you have a part that's shamefilled and another part that
says this is normal.
Mm-hmm.
this is gonna happen.
This is okay.
With all of these feelings I'mhearing you have a part that
(33:13):
rises up in sadness, a part thatrises up in resentment, and then
other parts that can talk toyou, right?
Like that are your best self,more or less, that are reminding
you of the, of a Like conflictwith and way through.
Yeah.
Bigger picture.
Mm-hmm.
and I think that is one of thestrategies.
Is to think about it in terms ofparts to notice when the part of
(33:34):
us that is sad comes up, right?
Because it's there and it risesup and we notice it and we say
just the way we would to ourchildren.
We say to ourselves, Yeah, itmakes sense.
I'm so sorry you're sad andlet's, you know, remember these
things or make some space for itor move on from it.
Whatever we think is appropriatein the moment.
But I think thinking of thesefeelings in terms.
(33:55):
Can be helpful also to help uslike, feel more in control of
them.
Katie (33:58):
Okay.
I know it helps me to break itdown a little bit cuz otherwise
I probably would get veryoverwhelmed.
Joanne (34:03):
Mm-hmm.
Katie (34:03):
Let's see.
I'm looking at what we, where weshould jump to next.
Let's spend a little bit of timetalking about just
self-compassion being kind toourselves because.
I don't think any of us woulddeny that this job of being a
pancreas for our kids comes witha lot of and then teaching them
also how to be a pancreas forthemselves one day so they can
(34:23):
be pent with it eventually comeswith a lot of emotions and
feelings, so it's, I think it'seasy.
For us to be hard on ourselves alot of the time.
And, you know, I feel like it'svery popular thing right now
for, you know, for the, just,just give yourself grace.
Mm-hmm.
Saying, and I totally agree withthat.
I'm on, on board for givingyourself a lot of grace mm-hmm.
(34:45):
but what does that really looklike to give yourself grace and
just have self-compassion
Joanne (34:50):
Mm-hmm.
Great question.
So there is a lot of research onthis now.
You're right.
It's, it's like a pretty popularthing to be focused on, which is
like mindful self-compassion.
And I think some of it is reallyjust like a self-validation.
Mm-hmm.
like recognizing the reality.
Mm-hmm.
and Kristen Neff is a therapistand researcher who's at the
(35:11):
forefront of this.
And if you were to Google her,you'd, there's even.
She even has a meditation forcaregivers.
I, I can't remember where, butif you Googled it, you could
find it.
It's only a few minutes long.
And if you look at the researchit talks about I, I don't love
this way of thinking about it,but it, it still can be helpful.
Like if you had a friend withthe same situation, what would
(35:31):
you say to them?
Right?
And can you, Shaza that back toyourself.
Can you turn the mirror aroundand give that back to yourself?
I think, I think often when wecan't be self-compassionate,
there's something a little morecomplicated that's going on in
there.
Mm-hmm.
so that feels a littlebehavioral to me in a way that
may or may not work, dependingon somebody's sort of psychic
structure.
Mm-hmm.
But I do think that that's ahelpful way to think about it.
(35:53):
Like if you had a friend whoreally showed you what they were
struggling with.
Right.
How would you feel about them?
Mm-hmm.
if you were, if you could stepoutside yourself and see how
much you're carrying, like howwould you be kind to that
person?
What would you say to them?
So I think that that's a helpfulway to think about
self-compassion.
I also think, honestly, thatsome of self-compassion is about
(36:15):
self-care, right?
It's about actually making timeMm-hmm.
So I have a webinar that I'vegiven called Caring for the
Care.
Again, if you get on mynewsletter, I think I'm offering
it in 2023.
I don't know when I have itdate, but I don't, I don't
remember it.
Mm-hmm.
And some of what I talk about iswe do a time pie where you like,
make a quick pie, like a piegraph of like how you spend your
(36:39):
day and match it up to what arethe things you love to do, and
then see is there any overlapthere, Cause often for mothers,
there's.
And so how can you e out bits oftime to actually take care of
yourself in whatever way it isthat makes you feel happy and
nourished because that's also aform of self-compassion.
(36:59):
Mm-hmm.
right?
That we do need time, even ifit's 15 minutes.
Mm-hmm.
to just sit and do somethingthat's nourishing, that's not,
you know, scrolling on yourphone cuz I don't think that's
truly nourishing.
But I think those are componentsof self-compassion that are
really important.
Katie (37:13):
and I know for me, I used to feel very guilty about taking
time out of the day for myselfbecause.
There's just, you know, there'sjust always something to do in
terms of taking care of yourfamily.
But luckily I've worked throughsome of that and, you know, I
think it's perfectly fine totell your kids too, like, Hey,
for the next hour I'm gonna goand do this.
Whether it's reading a book orgoing for a walk, or whatever it
(37:35):
may be.
Whatever you find joy in doing.
You know, and I have said to mykids before, like, I'm, I am
your mom and my job is to keepyou safe and provided for and I
do that 23 hours of the day.
So for this next hour, I need totake care of myself.
Cause when I'm taking care ofmyself, I can, I'm less stressed
out.
I mean, I, I'll I say that tothem like, that's real.
(37:57):
Yeah.
I'm less stressed out and I'llbe able to take better care of
you.
So let me have this hour, andthen the rest of my day will be,
And they are fine with that.
They're like, Oh, like they,they get it.
And I think it's good for themto hear like, Oh, mommy gets
really stressed out sometimes,and she has to do this to take
care of herself.
Well, there's
Joanne (38:14):
so many messages in there, Katie, that are
important.
Not just mommy gets stressed outand this is a way to help mommy
not get stressed out.
But also it's important to getahead of that by self care and
that we, you know, what you'remodeling for them is you get to
engage in self care.
Mm-hmm.
Which, and I think our, I thinkculturally, I don't know.
I struggle with this a lot.
I think culturally there's a lotof messaging about how much we
(38:35):
should be doing all the time andaccomplishing, and how connected
we should be, and all the, youknow, it's very busy our lives
and so how do we get to slow itdown so it's just exactly in one
given hour or moment what wewant it to be.
Mm-hmm.
Katie (38:48):
Yeah.
So find something that you enjoymoms and dads out there, and,
and make time for it.
I.
You know, do what you have todo.
Luckily, my kids are old enoughnow.
I love to exercise and I usuallydo for, you know, an hour most
days of the week.
I'll go for a walk or I have abike, I'll ride a bike, or I'll
do some stretching or whatever.
Just movement helps me and beoutside too And luckily they're
(39:09):
old enough now to where I can,you know, I'm, even if I just go
for a walk around the block, I'mgonna go for a walk.
Yeah.
I'll stay close in case I needto come home.
But like, you're gonna be justfine
Joanne (39:18):
I totally agree.
I mean, I'm thinking about whenmy daughter was really little, I
was so tired all the time.
Mm-hmm.
and I would say to her, I'mgonna take a baby nap right now,
so you need to play quietly.
Cuz she'd be like two years oldand I would lie on the sofa with
her right next to me playing andI would fall asleep for just 10
minutes and it would, it would,you make my life a lot easier
and I was more functional andshe could do it.
(39:40):
Right.
We, we get to ask these thingsof our.
because it's important
Katie (39:43):
for us to take care of ourselves.
Yeah.
Here's a pro tip for parents.
Tell your kids you're gonna playhide and go seek and that you're
gonna hide first and then gohide somewhere where you can lay
down and just lay there.
Maybe it's in a bathtub with theshower curtain closed or bed
with the covers pulled up overyour head.
(40:03):
It's really great.
Joanne (40:04):
That's awesome.
It reminds me, a friend of minewas telling me that when she'd
go to the dentist, she also hadthree kids.
She'd go to the dentist andshe'd nearly fall asleep in the
chair.
You know, she's reclining.
She's so tired.
Mm-hmm.
I love that.
That's awesome.
Katie (40:17):
pro tip.
Hide and go seek in the dark,which I'm grateful that they
even still wanna like play hideand go seek with me.
Cuz they're, they are gettingolder, but now they like wanna
take it to the next level.
Like, okay, we're gonna turn offall the lights at night and
we're gonna have flashlightsand, and anyway, it's.
It's fun, but I can't take mynaps anymore really.
I guess I could.
Joanne (40:36):
You could certainly be reclining Sure.
Katie (40:42):
is there anything else that we haven't mentioned
already?
Like some good tools that justwe as parents can use to kind of
help when we're feeling a littleout of control with our feelings
and emotions mm-hmm.
That we can kind of use to kindof like you said, like
recalibrate, reset, and help toregulate things.
Mm-hmm.
Joanne (41:00):
Yeah, hard sometimes.
Right?
And I like that you used theword help to regulate things,
because the truth is when we'rereally in big feelings, we tend
to be a little dysregulated.
Not always.
Sometimes our sadness is justour sadness and we can sit with
it and be with it in acomfortable way, but sometimes
we get really kind of like, it,it's neurological, like our body
(41:20):
system is outta whack.
And so I have a few thoughtshere.
One is, Is that self-compassion,self-care piece, right?
So what do you do to getyourself back to regulated in
general?
And I do think often connectingwith another person is helpful
cuz you know, we've definedtrauma in some way.
This isn't always trauma, but wedefine trauma in some way as is
(41:43):
being dysregulated in a momentwithout having the support to
help us reregulate.
Right.
If there's a crisis, think aboutit.
If you're, you know, it could bea trauma for your child to have
a sibling.
Right?
And if they're totally alonewith that trauma and they have
no parent there, no adult theresaying, Yep, it makes sense.
Yep.
You feel angry.
Yep.
You feel sad.
Yep.
(42:03):
You don't feel like you'regetting enough attention.
They're trying to regulate it ontheir own and they might not be
able to.
They likely can't.
Right.
in those moments when we'redysregulated, we often need
company.
I'm a big believer in company.
So who is your company?
Right?
Maybe a spouse, maybe a parent,maybe a best friend, maybe a
support group, whatever it is.
The other thing and, and thenthe self care piece, which we
(42:23):
talked about before, which islike, I can't come up with a
list for you.
Your list, you, Katie, like toget some movement.
Great.
You might pet a dog, you mightread a book, you might cook a
meal, whatever it is.
Mm-hmm.
But the last thing, and Ireferenced this just a few
minutes ago, is like recognizingthat it's a part of you.
Like if you can get enoughdistance from yourself, which is
not always easy to do, and youcan be like, Oh, this isn't me
(42:46):
at my best.
This is me feeling, having a lotof hard feelings and being
compassionate about that.
But noticing and rememberingthat you could come back to your
grounded best self, that is avery helpful.
To be able to do it takes, thattakes work, right?
To be able to really observeyourself in that way and slow
down your own process.
(43:06):
But that's a goal always for allof us.
Katie (43:08):
I think, I think it's a good reminder about the company
piece too.
Cause I know there's been somany times where I was supposed
to go meet a friend forsomething or even just go on a
date with my husband and mm-hmm.
sometimes you just feel soexhausted that you're like, I
just don't even know if I can dothat.
but I, I.
Would push through a lot of thetimes and still, you know, I
wouldn't cancel plans.
I don't like to do that.
(43:29):
Especially if I made acommitment.
But I, you know, there, there'snever been a social interaction
that I've gone to that's nottrue.
I do get worn out with likeweddings where you have to make
a lot of small talk, but butwe're talking about just like an
intimate dinner with a friend ortwo.
There's never been a socialinteraction like that that I've
gone to where I've.
Of feeling like I reallyshouldn't have done that.
(43:49):
That just wiped me out evenmore.
Like I've always felt energizedby that and mm-hmm.
just to be in the company ofsomething, it takes my mind off
of whatever is currently goingon at home or with diabetes or
whatever, so.
Mm-hmm.
definitely encourage people to,Remember that and seek out and,
and you know, a lot of peopleare like, Well, I don't, I don't
have any friends, or I don't,you know, a lot of people really
(44:10):
feel that way.
And to that I just say, you justgotta get weird.
Like, you've gotta literally gohunt these people down.
Joanne (44:17):
I totally agree with you.
And yeah.
And I think we have a, this is alittle off topic, but we have a
sort of crisis of lone.
In our culture.
Right.
A lot of people who feeldisconnected mm-hmm.
and, you know, everybody isfeeling the same way.
And so if you reach out tosomeone, it's not, it's
actually, it's people want that.
So I like how you say we gottaget weird, but it's, it's true.
(44:40):
We have to, we have to take thestep, We have to overcome the
fear that we'll be rejected.
And if And if it's not ourperson, it's not our person,
that's fine.
Yeah.
Right?
Katie (44:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, Joanne, thank you again.
I think it was another greatepisode.
Lots of nuggets of wisdom forall those type one parents out
there.
Thank you again.
Joanne (44:57):
Thank you, Katie.
I love being here and talking toyou.
Katie (44:59):
Yes, I feel the same.
All right.
Signing off.
That's it for our episodeJoanne, we'll be back for one
more episode with me next week.
I'm really excited about thatone that is going to be on
relationships and type onediabetes.
All those strains on ourrelationships, whether it's with
family members, spouses,friends, our child.
(45:23):
We're going to kind of dive inand talk about that and how to
work through some of those.
Relational stressors.
Make sure you check out thelinks in our show notes, I will
leave a link to Joanne'swebsite, diabetes, sweet
talk.com.
And there you can find links toall of Joanne's other endeavors,
such as her coaching courses,her podcast.
And some of her amazing blogposts.
(45:45):
All right guys.
I'll be back next week.
To talk more diabetes.
But until then stay calm andbolus on.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.