November 19, 2022 • 51 mins
Today's topic is Helping and Encouraging our Picky Eaters and my awesome guest from the last episode, Aren Dodge, is back to help guide us through this tricky subject. Aren is the owner and founder of Dodge Diabetes, she's a registered dietician, a diabetes educator, and she has been living with type 1 diabetes for nearly 30 years. As a diabetes educator, Aren has advanced training from the Ellyn Satter Intitute which you'll learn more about in today's episode. As a diabetes educator, Aren is trained on all of the FDA approved pump systems that are on the market today! Feel like you might need Aren's help? Good news! She's available! Be sure to check out the links below so you can find Aren on the web and on social media. Enjoy the show!
Aren's Website: Dodge Diabetes
Aren on Instagram, @dodge_diabetes
Aren's awesome Facebook Group: Dodge Diabetes Community
Learn more about the Ellyn Satter Institute and the Division of Responsibility
Episode #92 with Aren: Raising a Healthy and Competent Eater
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Come join the Facebook Group!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Katie (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to episode 93 of the sugar mamas
podcast.
Today.
I'm back with Aren Dodge,registered dietician.
Diabetes educator.
And a lovely person who has beenliving with type one diabetes
for nearly 30 years.
I recorded an episode last weekwith Aren called raising a
healthy and competent eater.
That's episode 92.
(00:21):
If you want to go back and takea listen.
And today our topic.
Is how to handle and encourageour picky eaters.
This episode is really great forreally anybody that has a picky
eater in their family.
All right.
Let's get started.
You're listening to the sugarmamas podcast, a show designed
(00:42):
for moms and caregivers of typeone diabetics here.
You'll find a community oflike-minded people who are
striving daily to keep theirkids safe, happy, and healthy in
the ever-changing world of typeone.
I'm your host and fellow T one Dmom, Katie Roseboro.
Before we get started.
(01:02):
I need you to know that nothingyou hear on the sugar mamas
podcast should be consideredmedical advice.
Please be safe, be smart, andalways consult your physician
before making changes to the wayyou manage type one diabetes.
Thanks.
Hello.
I am back today with Aren Dodge,and Erin was on our last
(01:26):
episode, episode 92, aboutraising a healthy eater, just
kind of in general, and thenkind of looking at that also
through the lens of.
Having a child with type onediabetes.
Aren, just a reminder, is aregistered dietician.
She's a certified diabetes careand education specialist, which
is also known as a diabeteseducator.
And she's also been living withType one diabetes for quite some
(01:48):
time.
Almost 30 years you said?
Aren (01:50):
Yeah.
30 years in January.
Katie (01:53):
Okay.
Whew.
That diversity is coming up
Aren (01:56):
Mm-hmm.
Katie (01:56):
three decades.
That's, that's quite a while.
Aren (01:59):
it's a lot to celebr.
Katie (02:00):
Yes, it absolutely is a lot to celebrate.
Lots of strength and resilienceToday our episode is going to be
specifically on kind of helpingyour picky eater again, kind of
just in general but then alsolooking at that a little bit
through the lens of having a, achild who might be a pick picky
eater who also has type onediabetes.
So Erin, we're just gonna startwith a simple question of what
(02:24):
does it mean to be a pickyeater?
So what is kind of like normaleating and what's considered
picky eating for a.
Aren (02:31):
Well, if you think about it through the lens of a child
all food is sort of strange andnew.
And so all kids for the mostpart have some level of
pickiness.
if you think about.
We've been eating the same foodsfor years and years and years,
and this is literally, even if afive year old has only seen
certain foods once or twice.
(02:52):
So if you think about trying anew food for the first time, you
kind of have to be a little bitskeptical and I feel like A lot
of kids.
I mean, pick eating is normalfor the most part, but there's
some cases where it starts tointerfere with the atmosphere of
the dinner table, and it startsto be kind of become a problem
(03:14):
with planning meals and sittingdown at the table.
So there's a few questions thatcan help you decide if you have
a picky eater.
So number one, does your childget upset?
She sees unfamiliar food.
Does she only ever eat a few, anever shrinking list of certain
foods?
Does she worry she'll be unableto eat away from the house or
(03:35):
like a friend's house or at arestaurant or something?
And then do you make specialfood for her in order to get her
to eat?
And then the last one, which isreally important is are you
upset about her eating?
again, The dinner table issupposed to be a joyful sort of
place where you get to sit downwith your family probably one of
the only times during the daybecause the day is so busy and
(03:57):
everybody's rushing around.
So any kind of, I feel like kidsare even better at sensing
tension or anxiety or stressthen even adults.
So they're really tuned in.
And if you have any kind offeelings of Anxiousness around
the dinner table, they're gonnaknow it.
(04:17):
so if you feel like you answereda couple of those questions
honestly and you'd think youmight have a picky eater, then
don't worry.
We have a lot of tips today thatwe're gonna go through that can
kind of help nudge your eateralong your child along to be a
more competent eater and tobring a little bit more joy back
to your, your family meals.
Katie (04:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm just thinking about myown family and some of my kids
are pickier than others.
You know, it's so interestinghow these kids can come out of
the same parents and then justhave such, just different
personalities, especially whenit comes to eating and the
willingness, with which they'rewilling to try new foods and
just.
It's just crazy how they're allso different.
(04:57):
I'm very grateful that Sarah, mytype one diabetic is probably my
most adventurous eater.
She's willing to try the mostfoods and she loves most
vegetables, and so I'm very, I'mvery grateful for that.
But I'm hoping to pick up some,some tips and tricks today to to
deal with my with my boys.
My other two kiddos.
They're a little bit pickierwhen it comes.
When it comes to eating.
So I wanted to ask you, I wantedto ask you, you know, last
(05:20):
episode we talked a lot aboutthe Ellen Sadder method.
She's world renowned.
She, you know, her big thing iskind of the division of
responsibility when it comes tofeeding your family and your
kids coming to the table.
So how does just the picky eaterfit into the Ellen Satter?
Model.
And you might wanna givelisteners just a quick overview
(05:41):
of what the division ofresponsibility is as a, as a
review.
Aren (05:44):
Right.
So Ellen Satter kind of combinesthe psychology side of eating
with the nutritional side.
And what we know is that youcan't make a child eat a food.
They have to want to eat it.
especially some of your reallyHardheaded, you know, strong
willed children you can forcethem to sit at the table for
(06:06):
hours before they'll eat thatfood and get up or not eat it at
all, and you just give in.
So try to you know, have apositive attitude and energy
around the table around eating.
But Ellen Satter.
If you haven't gone and visitedher website it's the Ellen
Satter Institute, but thehandout that she does for the
division of responsibility.
(06:26):
gives you guidance as a parenton what your job is with feeding
and what the child's job is witheating.
And the parent's job is to focuson the what, when and where of
meals and snacks.
So what you're feeding, whenyou're feeding it, and where
you're gonna have that food.
(06:47):
And then the child'sresponsibility is what to eat
from what you're provid.
And whether or not to eat atall.
So those are the child'schoices.
So remember to stay in yourlane, don't get tempted to kind
of veer into theirresponsibility and even just the
slightest.
Persuasive way.
(07:08):
I always joke about the mom looklike, you know, when you give
them like, that look like youbetter eat or you know, what are
you doing?
You know, stop doing what you'redoing right now.
And they know exactly what thelook is and that is gonna
backfire at the table,unfortunately.
And what they found is, soremember we know.
Kids, it takes 10 to 20 neutralexposures to different, to a new
(07:30):
food for a child to come aroundto warm up to it, for it to lose
its strangeness so that they'llactually try it.
And that could look like pokingit with their finger licking it.
Putting it in their mouth andspitting it back into the
napkin.
That is them moving themselvesforward without pressure to
decide if they want to eat thatfood or not.
(07:50):
And then after the 10 or 20times when they've come around
to liking that food, they may ormay not eat it at that meal that
you prepare.
So it's really hit or miss andyou just have to support that
process of the divisionalresponsibility again.
The parent is providing thewhat, when and where, and the
child is deciding what they'regoing to eat and whether they're
(08:12):
going to eat it at all.
And this is a really trickytopic to to wrap your head
around because it feels oppositeof what you should be trying to
do as a mom or any kind ofcaregiver for that matter around
meals.
think the divisionalresponsibility, if you can kind
of set and follow thoseguidelines, you'll really see
more eating competence with yourkids.
(08:34):
You're gonna find that they eatmore variety of foods and
they're more curious to try newfoods.
But just like anything else withparenting, you wanna look at the
long game.
And with diabetes too, it's notjust getting them to eat
vegetables tonight, it'ssupporting them.
Physically and emotionally withthose family meals so that
they'll grow up to be competenteaters.
(08:57):
And it may take them, like yousaid, you have different
personalities at your dinnertable.
And there are some that are sojoyful, adventurous, like
they'll try new things, they'llput it in, you know, they'll,
you know, even try chewing it upand eating it.
Without even making a face.
But then my for example, mydaughter's that way, but my son
totally skeptical.
(09:17):
He thinks you're out to get himlike that, you're trying to
trick him into tastingsomething.
And even if it's the mostdelicious thing, like we had a
fight over cotton ca, not afight, but like it was over
cotton candy and cuz it was aweird texture and he was like
really suspicious about it.
And then he finally tasted itand loved it.
Again, it's that temperament andthe personality of each of your
(09:39):
children, which again, as a mom,you know your kids better than
anybody else.
So you may already have in mindthat, you know, if you have more
of a strong willed child or askeptical child around the
table, you're gonna see thisshow up in picky eating.
So,
Katie (09:55):
Yeah.
I really love what you saidabout it takes 10 to 20 neutral
exposures to.
A new food or just a food ingeneral before kids might be
willing to try it.
And, you know, and so I thinkthat word neutral is so
important to really kind of letthat sink in because like you
said, like that really meansthat the parent has to come to
(10:15):
the table with, I, I, I'menvisioning all of us, like
tying our hands behind our backsand putting like duct tape over
our mouth because it's so hardnot to say things or, you know
you know, push things, push.
Plates of food closer to peopleor even just, you know, body
language with your eyes and theway you're breathing.
You know, just really, youreally have to get into the
(10:37):
mindset of like, okay, I really,I really don't care whether or
not they try this.
Like, the important thing isthat they're being exposed to
it.
This, you know, and you thinkabout like, just, let's take
broccoli for instance.
I mean, First of all, I do wannasay that you can force a child
to eat a food because I havedone it before.
I have forced my oldest son toeat broccoli.
(10:57):
And let me tell you theconsequences were not fun
because he vomited all over thetable.
Now he's 12 now.
This was when he was much, much,much younger.
I'm talking like four or five orsomething, but yeah, don't
recommend it.
So, so.
Maybe in truth, you cannot forcethem to eat it, at least,
unless, you know, not withoutsome consequences that are
(11:17):
really gross and disgusting.
But but yeah, you know, that,and that was not a neutral
exposure at all because that wasme really forcing that upon him
of like, No, you have to trythis, or you have to take a
bite.
And it didn't end well.
And to this day, he still, hestill hates broccoli.
Aren (11:31):
it's so interesting with even the research shows that if
you pressure a child to try toeat food or like even just being
sar, I don't know, being like adrama like.
Oh my gosh, this, this is sodelicious.
You've gotta try this.
Like, even that kind ofpersuasiveness, kids are so
smart and they can see you playin them.
(11:52):
And that feel, that manipulationand it, it's almost like reverse
psychology.
Like they will do the oppositeof what you're trying to
encourage them and get them todo because it feels very Sort of
forceful and, you know,unnatural for example.
So they at the table, if you'relike, matter of fact, and you're
like, Well, I don't, you know,if you wanna try it, you can.
(12:14):
And you just kind of.
Man, it changes the mood aroundthe table.
Number one for the kids becausethey don't feel the pressure and
they're more likely to try newthings when there's not a lot of
pressure on them to eat.
On the other hand, especiallyyour strong, strong willed
child, they'll intentionally noteat it because they know you
want them to eat it.
(12:35):
So it's almost the less, if youtake a step back, number one,
the kids are going to respond alot.
You're not gonna have so muchstress and guilt on your
shoulders about getting them toeat vegetables because you just
kinda let it go.
It's just a matter of fact.
You know, divisionalresponsibility, and especially
with older kids, when youacknowledge that and say, Look,
(12:57):
I'm not gonna make you eatanything you don't wanna eat.
You can try it if you want.
It's at the table.
You can help yourself or nothelp yourself and eat as much or
as little as you want.
And.
Like it's, it's miraculous howthey will grow up to like the
same foods that you eat and thatyou have exposed them to, and in
terms of competent eating,they'll be.
(13:18):
Able to kind of have thatschedule and routine in their,
in their day to day life to kindof provide reliable meals and
snacks if they need'em, and theneven push themselves along
almost, It's almost kind of likea hierarchy of needs where.
They'll start being like, almostlike foodies, very at the very
end.
So they start out with justbeing super skeptical, eating a
(13:39):
few things, and then they'llpush themselves along with
support and encouragement in theright way at the dinner table to
then be able to Take care ofthemselves when they're not at
home, which is the, again, thatend game we are talking about.
So again, it's not getting themto eat vegetables right now,
it's getting them to be acompetent eater later on in
life.
Katie (13:59):
absolutely.
And I wanna, you know, kind ofshortly after that broccoli
incident all those many yearsago, we kind, I had a
conversation with my husband andwe kind of backed off a little
bit at the dinner table cuz itjust wasn't an enjoyable
experience, you know, we're, wewere just so fixated on what
they were eating, how much of itthey were eating, if they were
being.
if they were trying the foods ortaking a bite of the foods that
(14:19):
were on their plate or whatever.
So we kind of backed off andit's just so much more peaceful
and enjoyable to come to thetable and just not have really
any expectations as to what theymight eat or how much of
something they might eat.
And I will say for my son, hestill doesn't like broccoli, but
he's become much moreadventurous in what he'll try
and eat.
So I can kind of see that, youknow, I have I have filled my
(14:42):
responsibility of providing, youknow, like, like you said, with
the division of responsibility,like what we're eating when
we're eating it and where, andthen I'm just kind of letting
him figure out the, how much ishe going to eat of it and
whether or not he's going to eatit.
I'm, I'm letting him figure thatout on his own.
And I, and like you said, it'ssuch a long game cuz I mean,
we're talking now.
What, 7, 8, 9 years of just kindof being more relaxed at the
(15:05):
dinner table and, and what werequire them to eat, you know?
And we're finally seeing the,the fruits of that, right?
The benefits of that.
And now he's starting to try newthings and branch out and, and
eat more of what's put on thetable.
But it takes, takes a really,really, really long time
sometimes, especially if, youknow, we had years of probably
not great healthy habits at thedinner table to kind of
(15:27):
overcome.
In push pass, but so I, I wannatalk about, you know, parents
that kind of get stuck in thistrap or the cycle of catering to
their children.
You know, cuz a lot of timeswhen we have a picky eater it
can just be really stressful andat the end of the day, we're
tired and we really just wantthem to eat something and not
have to listen to them complainabout it.
So a lot of parents will startto cater to their, to their
(15:48):
picky eaters and only fix whatthey know they like and what
they know they, they'll eat.
I think as parents, we thinkthat's.
Minimizing the stress, butreally it's, for us at least,
it's creating more stress.
Cuz now we're having to do morework.
We're having to you know, cookthis one meal for the family,
but then cater to this otherchild who's refusing to eat the
one meal.
Then there's more cleanupinvolved.
(16:08):
I mean, you know, the list goes,goes on and on.
And then of course you're stillstuck with the guilt of like,
Oh, this kid still isn't, Eatinganything that I'm cooking and I
feel bad about it.
So how can we kind of get out ofthat cycle, break that cycle of
just catering to our children,our picky eaters.
Aren (16:22):
Man, I feel like a lot of it kind of stems from guilt, but
remember the division ofresponsibility and let's not
forget how hard it is to have afamily meal.
Like all the planning and allthe things that have to, the
stars have to align to geteverybody to sit down around the
dinner table, to have thegroceries, to make a recipe.
(16:43):
It's a lot of effort and energy.
So you know, it's reallydisappointing and discouraging
when you do all that.
And then, like you were saying,you sat down, everybody's
whining and complaining cuz theydon't have what they like and
you know, you're, you have likethe rules, you want'em to try to
eat all the stuff that you made,but then it like backfires.
You don't get to enjoy yourdinner.
(17:04):
And the atmosphere around thetable is.
You know, it's just notenjoyable for anybody.
So I feel like you can kind ofleave your agenda and just focus
on the time together.
Prepare foods that you and youknow, that you like.
So at least if someone's gonnaeat it, you're gonna at least
get to enjoy it if you put allthat energy into it.
(17:26):
And then with the division ofresponsibility, Kids will come
around to like the foods thattheir parents eat.
So if you guys are meetingpotato kind of people, you can't
expect your child to start justliking asparagus outta nowhere.
It's all that exposure of thosesame foods over and over again
where the kids will start tolike the foods that you kind of
(17:47):
have.
Around the table most often.
And then is if they can getcomfortable with that, then
they'll push themselves along totry new things.
But there's a checklist of fivethings that you can try to start
implementing with the divisionresponsibility that can make.
Your picky eaters sort of comearound and make those dinner
times and meal times a littlebit more enjoyable.
(18:10):
So number one is start withhaving regular meals and sit
down snacks.
That way your child will behungry when they come to the
table.
They're not grazing andpanhandling for snacks and stuff
in between meals, so only waterin between meals and scheduled
sit down snack.
And I, I think this is hard,especially when you have a picky
eater because you feel like, Ohmy gosh, they're gonna starve to
(18:32):
death.
They're not gonna get enough toeat, so I need to feed'em
whenever they want to eat,whenever they're hungry.
And then you fall into that trapwhere, when it's time to
actually sit down and eat themeal that you work so hard to
prepare.
They're not hungry.
And then when they come to sitdown at the table, then they
behave like a jerk because theydon't wanna be there, they're
not hungry, and you almost haveto bribe them to get'em to stay
(18:53):
at the table.
So if you can get that structurelined up and resist the urge to
have any kind of juice or snack,unless they're going low,
obviously that's the oneexception, but only water
between meals and scheduled.
And then that way everyone comesto the table hungry.
Number two is be consideratewithout catering.
(19:15):
So this is a really, reallyimportant thing to consider if
you answered yes to some ofthose picky eater questions.
this is also a good place towhere you can leave the guilt.
So your job is to be consideratewithout catering.
So don't ask your child whatthey want for dinner.
Just include one or two thingsthat you know, that they
(19:36):
normally eat at that one meal.
that way that they havesomething that, you know,
they'll at least eat one, evenif it's just one thing, even if
it's bread with butter, or evenif it's just the rice that you
make with the stir fry.
At least it's one thing youknow, that they'll eat and do
not get into that trap of makingspecial food.
Again, it just perpetuates andmakes it, like you said, more
(19:58):
work for you, more stress foryou, more cleanup for you.
And then down the road, what iteventually does is it makes the
picky eater more picky when youcater that way.
Number three, follow thedivision of responsibility.
Again, staying in your lane withthe what to prepare, when to
prepare it and.
What did I miss?
The what, when and where.
Katie (20:19):
Mm-hmm.
Aren (20:19):
And remind your child.
You don't have to eat.
Those words are really hard tosay, but it's really freeing for
a child that's been pressuredwith the One Bite Rule or the
Key Clean Plate Club and some ofthese well-intended um,
approaches with feeding thatsort of makes meals miserable
for kids.
(20:39):
So.
Say, you don't have to eat.
You can choose whatever you wantto eat from what I'm serving and
just leave it at that.
show her you mean it, kind ofstick to your rules.
Don't make extra special food.
Or if she asks for like a bowlof cereal or a peanut butter and
jelly right after dinner, say,I'm sorry, we're gonna wait till
our next snack or meal and thenyou can have something then.
(21:00):
But again, you don't want.
You wanna have a good backboneto sort of set these guidelines,
and they'll push it.
They'll push those limits.
They'll beg and sneak food kindof in between.
But once you set the rules andthe guidelines, they'll fall
into those patterns and rulesand they'll know if they don't
eat, they're gonna have to waituntil the next meal or snack
before they have something.
(21:21):
All right.
Katie (21:22):
Yep.
Aren (21:23):
number four.
Don't pressure her in any way toeat.
this includes like the, even thebody language like you were
talking about, but don't bribe.
Encourage cheerlead, rewardforce glare, punish, deprive,
deceive, make a big deal ofloving the food, or talk about
(21:43):
how much she dislikes food orhow picky she is or her likes
and dislikes.
So again, just make it matter offact.
Don't really make a big dealabout it and just push forward
with having that positive energyand attitude around the table.
And eventually again, it takes alittle while to undo if you've
had some of those pressuresituations for her to kind of
(22:06):
settle in and get comfortableand not feel like she has to eat
any one thing.
Katie (22:11):
Mm-hmm.
Aren (22:12):
She may eat a whole loaf of bread at one.
I'm exaggerating, but you know,if that's the one thing she's
had, and maybe it's beenrestricted in the past, you may
find that she's like, Oh mygosh, I can have as much bread
as I want and eat all of thatbread.
But after a few meals of havingjust bread and butter and eating
that much, She's just gonna kindof, it's gonna lose its luster
(22:34):
because it's not restrictedanymore.
It's just you're offering, youknow, the food that you're
serving and that's it.
And Your eater, your child willcome around to eating a more
variety of foods.
But there is that adjustmentperiod where you're starting
something new that if you justhang in there, it will make
things easier for youespecially, but then also you'll
(22:56):
see it come along gradually withyour children and how they're
eating and how the table, how,how the atmosphere of the table
feels.
Katie (23:04):
I like what you said about not, and I know, I think
there's one more, number fivethat you, did you get to number
five?
Okay.
So I like what you said thoughabout not.
Like making too big of a dealout of it when they do eat
something new or they do, youknow, try new food or whatever
it may be.
Like, don't go into megacheerleading mode and, and
praise them.
I, I know for my, some of mykids, not all of them, if I were
(23:27):
to do that, they would, theywould be like, Well, I'm never
doing that again.
You know what I mean?
Like, just to, I guess that's astrong willed child, or I'm not
sure what you would call that,but they, they respond in the
opposite way when I.
When I encourage them like that,when I kind of get overly
excited about them tryingsomething new or liking
something new, they're likeimmediately turned off by that
and they don't wanna continuedoing it.
Aren (23:48):
Right.
And it feels, again, likepersuasive in a way where like,
oh man, that, you know, like,they must want me to eat this,
and it might, you know what Imean?
Like, it's just that wholereverse psychology thing.
So, so yeah.
The, the dinner.
Table is not a good spot forlike the, the sticker charts.
Again, the more of a deal youmake out of it, the more it's
gonna backfire.
The less, the more calm andcasual you are about The food is
(24:12):
surprisingly when you're gonnasee the kids kind of push
themselves along and come aroundto eating and In terms of number
five, it kind of ties all ofthat together where you want to
make meals a pleasure and aprivilege.
So have great conversation, makeit fun, and you know, give them
each little jobs that they cando, whether it's getting
(24:33):
silverware or, or napkins orwhatever to kind of help get
involved in, in that family mealsetup.
There's some really cool thingsout there now where you can do
like the rose and the thorn,like where you have that
positive conversation about howthe day went, what was the rose
would be like, the best thingthat happened to you.
And then the thorn would be thething that wasn't as great that
happened.
So you can kind of go around thetable and kids just love to
(24:55):
share and talk about their day,but give everybody a turn and.
It makes a really positiveexperience around the table.
And when they looked at theresearch as much as your kids
kind of moan and grown kids,including teenagers, love family
meals, they love thatconnection.
And again, we know in researchthat kids who sit down at family
(25:17):
meals do better in life overall.
They're you know, less likely todo drugs and, and you.
Be promiscuous and be targetschool.
And I mean, the list goes on andon about um, smoking cigarettes
and things where they feel moreconnected and have that family
support and encouragement.
Katie (25:37):
Makes'em feel like they belong to something.
Right.
Aren (25:39):
Right, right, right.
And the other caveat to thatmake meals pleasure and a
privilege, especially when itcomes to manners.
So set some guidelines for thatpicky eater where.
You're not allowed to say yew,that's nasty and disgusting
because that might hurt someoneelse's feelings.
Who likes that food?
And it's also insulting to thechef, so you can say with good
(26:01):
manner, Say yes please, or Nothank you.
And behave at the meal.
And again, I feel like with theyounger children, if you can get
them to come to the tablehungry, not starving, but like
where they're not just had asnack and then they're sitting
down at the table, they'llbehave pretty well and they'll
participate.
Especially if you do that, thosesort of activities I even just
(26:23):
saw An advertisement for a cardgame that gives you like little
prompts that you pass out andyou kind of talk about that
question.
There are a lot of fun ways thatyou can make it interesting and
you know, kind of takes a littlebit of the pressure away from
the food and more on theconnectedness.
And that's the biggest deal whenit comes to food because food is
not just nutrition, it's got alot of emotional connection to.
Katie (26:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
We like to play.
Would you rather around thedinner table sometimes where
everybody takes a turn coming upwith a would you rather
question?
And yeah, manners.
What I tell my kids is, youknow, you don't have to like the
food or even eat the food, but Ido expect you to be polite and
respectful so you will notcomplain about the food.
you need to.
(27:07):
Somewhat neat when you eat thefood you know, we don't, we
don't need, we don't need facesdown in plates trying to eat,
you know, we are gonna use,we're gonna use utensils and
napkins and all that sort ofthing.
So so yeah, I mean, I have sentmy kids away from the table
before for, for those things,for, for being.
Just rude and disrespectful andcomplaining about the food and,
you know, saying things thatwould be hurtful to me.
(27:28):
And it helps to, you know, havemy husband kind of get in on
that too, because he, you know,he'll, he'll say things like,
you know, you're, you're beingdisrespectful to your mother.
She worked hard to, to cook thismeal, and, and you're sitting
here complaining about it.
You don't have to eat it, butyou're not gonna sit here and
complain about it.
So, you know, if you can, if youcan rope your partner into
helping you with that too.
But in that same breath, likefamily meals, I think the
(27:48):
public's commercials andeverything have made us think
that it has to be this.
Whole complete family unit witha mom and a dad and you know,
the kids and everything.
But I mean, it can be singleparents.
It can be done in the car on theway to sporting events.
I mean, you know, it just, it'sjust that togetherness.
You know, again, the parents areresponsible for where, so where
does it necessarily have tomean?
(28:09):
Sitting around the kitchentable, you know, you can get
creative with the wear.
And you have to get creativewith the wear a lot of times
when your kids are getting olderand they're involved in a lot of
activities.
So I just didn't want anybody toget stuck in that kind of trap
of, oh gosh, this has gotta belike sitting at the table with
the whole family.
Many, you know, cuz I'm married,but my husband does travel a
lot, so a lot of times it isjust me and my kids.
Aren (28:30):
And you can kind of make it fun too, like do a picnic.
You can, you know, sit down.
I mean, and you can eat in theliving room too if that's your
jam, but you wanna make sure youdon't have any distractions.
So no phones or TV on where itkind of makes you forget about
your, your eating experience andyour fullness and satiety cues
and hunger cues and stuff.
But yeah, you could.
(28:51):
You know, adventurous and evenjust like you said, like on the
way to practice, like hand backsnacks and, and, and different
like combinations of foods tohave a, a meal
Katie (29:01):
Mm-hmm.
Aren (29:02):
And you know, I, I feel like my kids are getting to the
age where we're starting thatrun around crazy afterschool
activities and it, it getschallenging.
So just doing the best you canand just removing that.
And I think that will go a longway and your kids will feel it
at the table, and it will be alot less on your shoulders in
terms of expectations, becauseagain, like you said, there's
(29:25):
public's, commercials, and likeeven just the expectations of
having a family meal, Seven daysa week and it can get tricky, it
can get overwhelming and it's alot of work and a lot of
cleanup.
So yeah, just give yourself alittle bit of grace.
Start with where you are and ifthat's you know, microwave
dinners.
That's perfect.
So you can all sit down togetherand have the microwave meal or
(29:49):
microwave dinner or leftoversor, you know, even if you go to
the restaurant and bring ithome, you can all sit down
together and still have thatemotional connection with you
know, your evening meal or your,your, your dinner conversation.
Katie (30:02):
Absolutely.
Okay.
So I feel like you've touched alot on this in the last question
that we had.
But I kind of had here, what aresome ways to encourage our picky
eaters?
And then what are somesuggestions for parents that are
kind of wanting to wanting toattempt to introduce new foods
to their picky eaters?
And I know you hit on this alittle bit, it reminds me a lot
your answer about like lettingthem like.
And poke at it and stuff likethat.
(30:23):
Like I have a friend who's aspeech therapist and that's a
lot of what she does.
She just, she lets kids likesmell food and then like lick
food or touch it on theirtongue.
It's like exposure therapy andtiny little increments.
Aren (30:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say, One of the bestways is getting kids involved
around meal prep.
So have them involved in like,Hey, what's, you know, is there
a recipe that you'd like to tryor helping having them help you
with meal prep or, like we said,give them little jobs with like
the silverware or the napkins orsetting the table.
(30:56):
And then as they get older, youcan give them more jobs and
responsibilities to whereeventually they'll be able to
help you prepare the mealthemselves with a little help
and like a grocery list.
So it's kind of cool to watchthem blossom into adults and
have more responsibility aroundthe meal time so that once
they're on their own, you kindof have a little bit more trust
that they're.
Make it, they're gonna be ableto do it on their own and not
(31:18):
just eat microwave ramen for therest of their lives, you know?
But even doing like a littlegarden and letting them sort of
smell the basil and lick it andtaste it and sort of smash it in
their fingers and, you know,that sort of pushes them along
in a neutral environment to beexposed and experienced
different foods.
So That I think again, just kindof creates that emotional
(31:39):
connection with the food goingto, you know, we have we're
lucky to have down our road, wehave a lady that has ducks and
chickens, so we always go andget like eggs and like duck eggs
and chicken eggs, and we got togo meet the, the chickens and
the ducks at one point with ourkids.
And so they have that connectionwith emotionally, with the
farmer and all that.
(32:00):
Farmer's markets and going tovisit farms and things like that
are another way to sort ofexpose them to food and count
that towards their exposure towhere they'll come around to
eating it more with thatemotional connection.
Katie (32:14):
Yeah.
my kids like to come.
I, I like to try to do it one ata time just cuz it's a little
stressful to have all three inthe grocery store at the same
time.
It's getting better now thatthey're getting older, but, you
know, I like to one at a timekind of take them with me to the
grocery store and they can helpme bag up the, the fruits in the
vegetables and, you know, getthings off the shelves.
And I think they enjoy that too,you know, just that one on one
(32:35):
time and they're being helpfuland they.
See all the variety of, even ifthey don't like to eat the foods
at the moment, they can just seewhat a variety of food there.
You know, there are what?
There's so much out there.
Aren (32:46):
Right, Exactly.
And then the other thing I willsay, so one of the biggest tips
for introducing a new food is totry and pair it with a familiar
food.
So So put yourself in a child'sshoes that's trying a brand new
food for the first time andthink like, go to like Food
Network and like AnthonyBourdain, like traveling across,
(33:07):
like if you go to some exoticcountry and you're setting down
to eat with the locals, it feelsreally overwhelming when you
don't have any clue what any ofthe food is, even if you're
really adventurous with.
Katie (33:18):
Mm-hmm.
Aren (33:19):
you see a pile of rice on the corner of the plate, you're
like, Oh, shoot.
At least I have something that Iknow that I'll eat.
So it kind of takes that stressoff of new food and new meals.
And like I mentioned with thestir fry, if it's a mixed dish,
sometimes just deconstructing itmakes it less intimidating for
them to kind of add their own.
(33:40):
Ingredients of what they like tothat dish.
Especially those sort ofchallenging foods that are all
mixed together.
So again, just combiningfamiliar foods when you're
introducing new foods.
For an example would be like, Itis the season, but like corn, if
you know your child likes cornand you want to introduce maybe
lima beans, you could maybe dolike a suck attach where it
(34:02):
would have corn and you know,peas and like some familiar
things mixed in with the limabeans that you want'em to try
again.
They're not probably gonna tryit for the first time.
They may poke the bean andsquish it, which is a success.
Or they may spit it back intothe napkin if they try it, but
those are, Successes in yourchild, moving themselves forward
into liking and trying newfoods.
(34:23):
So just be patient.
And again mixing a familiar foodwith an unfamiliar food is gonna
get you a lot further with themwanting to experiment and try
something else, especially ifthey helped you pick it out at
the grocery store.
You.
Katie (34:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I have found too, that mykids really like to serve
themselves.
if I, and, and it takes a l alittle bit of work off of my
plate, no pun intended.
As well, because, you know,before I would be like getting
everybody's plate ready beforewe came to the dinner table,
which has a lot of work.
And so I have found that it's,it's a lot easier and more
(34:58):
enjoyable and people like itmore when I just kind of put the
bowls of things on the table andthey can serve themselves.
Yeah.
Aren (35:05):
And that's actually recommended with the, the
division of responsibility inlike family meals is that family
style of serving and it makes iteasier.
For you too, also to kind ofhave the kids can kind of choose
more of whatever they want.
So it does alleviate some ofthat guilt of you having to get
back up and go serve them morethings.
(35:25):
And everybody can still sitaround and pass the food and it
does, it, it makes it.
Flow easier and and simpler.
And I feel like it doesreinforce the statement that you
make.
You can have as much or aslittle or none at all of any of
the foods that I'm serving.
So here it is, you know, choosefrom what, what's out there.
Katie (35:44):
You know, it's interesting, I went to summer
camp with Sarah this pastsummer.
It wasn't a diabetes camp, itwas a just a church camp.
And.
I'm not kidding.
I, there was probably a groupof, my sister and I were in
charge of like the fourth gradegirls and there was a lot of'em.
There was like, I don't know, 12of'em or something.
And all the girls that had beento camp the year before, Sarah
had not.
But all the girls that had,they, they said their favorite
(36:06):
thing about camp was getting wasthe food.
And it wasn't really the fooditself.
It.
The, that they got to servethemselves.
You know, it's this like bigbuffet style of food and nobody
was telling them they had to puttheir fourth slice of pizza back
and nobody was telling them theycouldn't have a second helping
of, you know, dessert orwhatever it was.
(36:26):
They just had so much controlover what they were eating and
you know how much of it theywere eating.
And lots of the kids would go tothe salad bar and get salad.
I mean, it's not like they wereeating all junk all week long,
let me tell you, that gave me alot of anxiety, as you know,
since Sarah.
Type one.
I never knew what she was gonnaput on her plate, which was,
That was tricky.
But, and I, I wanted to talk alittle bit about this just, you
(36:47):
know, kind of putting type oneinto the mix of all this, like
for me, And I want you to, youknow, chime in as well with
like, maybe some tips and tricksfor parents.
But for me if I don't know, likeif we're in a situation like
that where I don't really knowwhat Sarah's going to eat or how
much of it she's going to eat, Ican usually guesstimate about
how many carbs I think she'sgoing to eat.
Like at least how many I thinkshe'll consume.
(37:09):
And then just kind of make it upat the end, like make up the
difference at the end.
Like, you know, if I, if Inotice she's eating a little bit
more, we can bo more.
I mean, you.
In that scenario, blood sugarsaren't probably gonna be
perfect.
But they're, at least, we're notgonna have this giant crash at
the end where I think she'sgoing to eat this and then she
hates it and doesn't eat any ofit.
So, and, and the same goes, youknow, even if we're not like at
(37:30):
a buffet style, Situation atcamp or restaurant if I'm
cooking something that's kind ofnew to our family and I'm not
really sure how much of it she'sgoing to eat, I always have
something on the table that Iknow my kids will eat.
Like, like you said, likewhether that's just a roll.
I pretty much always have somesort of cut up fruit on the
table that I know people willeat so I can kind of.
(37:51):
Base our Bos on what I know.
She definitely will eat likewith the familiar foods.
And then if she decides to eatsome of the newer foods I can
add more insulin to the mixafter the fact if we need to.
Aren (38:05):
Right.
And with an insulin pump thatmakes meal time so much easier
and less stressful.
Because, so what I would, whatyou're doing is perfect.
So I would try to guesstimatethe least amount of carbs you
think your child's going to eat.
And again, you know your kidbetter than anybody else.
So did they eat a huge snack Andthey're probably not gonna.
(38:25):
starving and so they may eat alittle bit less.
So go with the lesser number ofcarbs that you think you're
going to eat in terms ofcalculating the insulin.
Try to give that little bit as apre bowl list, and as long as
you have some kind of insulinkicking in and on board, even if
they decide to go back and getsecond helpings of carbohydrate
foods, you should be fine tojust add it at the moment or at
(38:47):
the end of the.
To kind of make up for thatextra insulin.
And one of the tips that I liketo do is When you're serving
family style in the carbohydratespecific bowl, like rice or
potatoes, use a serving spoonthat you know is a half a cup or
a third of a cup to make thecalculations easier for you and
your child to be accurate withyour carb counting.
(39:10):
So even if they do wanna servethemselves, they'll know that
one scoop is 15 grams or, or 30grams or whatever size portion
you choose with your spoon.
And then that way it makes themath a little easier.
Now if you're on injections, itgets a little trickier.
Before.
In the last episode, we talkedabout communication.
So for older kids, you can havethem kind of look at what is
(39:31):
available and the what, when andwhere of what you're serving,
and they can kind of calculateabout what they think they're
going to eat.
Oh, I'm gonna have a little bitof potatoes.
I'm gonna have a roll, and thenyou can kind of do the math and
calculate the injection as closeas you can get.
Now, if it comes to the factwhere the child wants more food,
which is absolutely fine, if youlook at the division of
(39:52):
responsibility, their job is tochoose how much and whether or
not they eat.
So you need to be careful withsaying an absolute no, but
giving them the option andcommunicating with them.
Their choices.
So let's say they want anotherhelping of potatoes.
(40:12):
So they're getting ready toscoop the potatoes out and
you're like, Ooh, we only tookinsulin for, this many carbs.
If you want extra, you have achoice.
So you can either just choose totake an extra injection for
those extra potatoes or thatextra slice of pizza or two that
you want, or you can.
Choose to pick green beans orchicken, that's not gonna make
(40:35):
your sugar spike.
So a lower carb option withoutan injection, or go ahead and
have more carbohydrate foods,but then know that they're gonna
have to take a shot with it andmaking it just so matter of
fact.
Make it like it's not anythingto do with the food and don't
put any kind of good versus badsort of connotations on the food
at the table, but just make itmatter of fact where, you know,
(40:57):
if you, if we eat morecarbohydrates, we have to take
the insulin and leave it atthat.
And again, communicating thatand letting them choose in their
division of responsibility therewith type one.
Now for younger kids, Iabsolutely a hundred percent
agree with dosing at the end ofthe meal.
It takes a lot of stress andpressure away from the table
(41:20):
when you can let your child eatwhat they're going to eat when
they're a toddler, and then doseat the end with injections.
You really can only get within ahalf a unit anyways, So just
trying to get in the ballparkand then kind of going from
there, because food jags arereal, like, especially with
toddlers.
I remember with my kids, it waslike one day they would eat
(41:40):
nothing but like Turkey andcheese and then the next day
they would eat like, you know,every carbohydrate known to man
and, and then some.
So each day is gonna look.
In general, when you think aboutnutrition, it's a three day
average.
So don't get caught up in, Oh,they didn't have any fruit
today, or they haven't eaten anyvegetables.
It's a three day average for,for kind of getting the, the
(42:03):
variety of nutrition that youneed in.
And you, again, don't sweat it.
The more you worry about it andthe more you stress, the more
the kids are gonna feel that,and it's gonna turn out again,
that psychological likenegative.
It's gonna go the opposite wayyou want get upset and it makes
it not fun for you as a mom.
There's already so much to havethat's going on that adding
(42:25):
extra stress around getting yourkids to eat the division of
responsibility can helpalleviate a lot of that guilt.
Katie (42:32):
Yeah.
Those are all great tips.
I, I really enjoy, I had neverthought about using a, serving
spoon or scoop.
That's an actual, You know, halfcup or whatever.
So you know about how muchthey're putting on their plate.
And then Yeah, I know, I'veheard a lot of toddler moms say,
or of, you know, kids livingwith type one diabetes say that
they Yeah.
Wait till after the meal and,you know that's, I think that
(42:55):
that would I agree.
I feel like that would take alot of the stress out of the.
Situation of kind of trying toguess how much they're going to
eat.
And I mean, toddlers are sounpredictable.
Aren (43:06):
Yeah's,
Katie (43:07):
I cannot even imagine.
I cannot, my hat is off to allthose parents that have, little
itty bitties.
Aren (43:12):
One last little thing I'd mention too, if you are like,
let's say you do for the toddleror even the kid that's like, eh,
you know what, not feeling it.
Like again, kids don't know whatthey're going to eat till they
really sit down at the table andthey can kind of evaluate where
they're at and what they'rehungry for and that kind of
thing.
But if you dosed and thenthere's not there's not enough
carbs to cover that insulin,then you could always supplement
(43:35):
with.
A beverage is usually the, the.
In terms of the division ofresponsibility and letting them
kind of I don't wanna say.
Get something different thaneverybody else but serving milk
and juice will make up for thosecarbohydrates that they didn't
eat for their insulin.
Those are kind of quick and easyways to sort of supplement that,
or maybe even the fruit sinceyou know that they're going to
usually eat fruit.
(43:56):
You can utilize that to see ifbut again, you kind of wanna be
cautious with how you'repressuring them to eat any food.
But specifically it makes thattricky with type one.
You need to have something tocover that insulin that you
gave.
So again, I feel like in, inlieu of raising a healthy eater
that a few scenarios of highblood sugars and dosing after
(44:18):
the meal may be worthwhile andless stress and safer for the
child in the long run.
Katie (44:25):
we have the Sarah, I would not say Sarah's a picky
eater, but we kind of have thisissue more often in the morning
than any other time of the daybecause everybody's just so
tired.
You know, we have to get up atlike 6, 6, 6 or six 15 to get
everybody out the door forschool.
So we kind of have a systemwhere I will go in and say good
morning, and ask her what shewants for breakfast, and then
(44:46):
we'll dose for it.
And then I set a timer and whenthe timer goes off, she has to
get up and get dressed and thencome out and eat her breakfast.
Which there's a lot ofcomplaints from my boys because
they don't get that.
They don't get to lay in bed andwait for their dimer to go off
They have to get up when I tell'em to get up.
But anyway but sometimes she'sjust so tired or she's like half
asleep when she tells me whatshe wants to eat and then she
gets up and gets dressed andthen kind of is like, I just
(45:08):
don't even want to eat all thisfood, or I don't actually want
to eat this specific food.
You know, I'd rather have this,and I've just had to learn to be
like, you know, let's say I gaveher 40 carbs for something and
she only eats 20 carbs worth ofthe meal.
I'll say, Hey, that's fine, butwe did do 40 carbs and I don't
want you to crash at school.
So, Whatever it is that youwant.
(45:28):
Like let's pick 20 carbs worthof something to kind of make up
the difference.
And you know, every now and thenshe'll try to be like, What
about Halloween candy?
And I'm like, Well no, because Iwouldn't let you do that even
before you had type onediabetes.
So I'm not gonna let you do thatnow.
So let's choose something like agranola bar or a piece of fruit
or you know, there's plenty ofthings in our pantry that you
(45:49):
can pick that's not Halloweencandy.
Aren (45:51):
Right.
And honestly, if you can kind ofeven treat it more like
medicine, like in terms of juiceand stuff like that, and you
don't wanna make it, like yousaid, you don't want to give
them the alternate, thealternative.
Of, Oh, if I don't eat, if Itell her 40 carbs and then I
don't eat my breakfast, thenI'll get candy that will sink in
and they will manipulate you,for those, for those carbs.
(46:13):
So make it boring, but somethingyou know that they like and that
they can get down pretty easy.
Like I said, the, the juice orlike you were like, you can
choose this or this instead, butdon't give them.
the the choice of everything inthe pantry.
Now as they get older, you cankind of give them a little bit
more responsibility withchoosing the what around snacks
(46:35):
and, and even breakfast andthings like that.
But it's, it's really tiptoeingand it's hard with diabetes to
not try to cater and then makespecial accommodations.
But you have to do it in, in thecases of where the insulin's
kicking and you don't have anycarbs on board.
Katie (46:50):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Most mornings work out prettywell, but there are those few
mornings that I'm like, Oh, yougotta, you gotta find something
else to eat.
Here's a banana.
I don't know.
Aren (47:00):
Yeah, exactly.
Katie (47:01):
Luckily she, like I said, she's not picky, so she does
love a lot of healthier options,you know, yogurts and fruits and
whatnot.
All right.
Let's see.
We already talked about theinsulin.
Okay.
I, I just, maybe let's end withwhat, just, what advice do you
have, And I know you're not amarriage counselor, but like if
parents are not seeing eye toeye on how they should approach
(47:23):
meal times with their kids,especially if they have a picky
eater.
You know, maybe one parentthinks that we should make them
sit at the table until theyclean their plate or they need
to try one bite of everything ontheir plate or whatever.
And then the other parent feelsdifferently.
What's your best advice, cuz Iknow that causes a lot of
strife.
I mean, we've been there in myfamily.
That can cause a lot of stressand strife in a relationship and
(47:44):
at the family dinner table forsure.
Aren (47:45):
It does.
And honestly, feeding is one ofthose big cornerstones of just
parenting and I feel like howyou feed your kids is a kind of
a reflection of your parentingas well, and just trying to be
on the same page.
even kind of almost presentingthe facts about, listen, the
more you pressure, the longerit's gonna take her to eat that
(48:06):
new food.
And if you refer to like thatEllen Satter Website, it'll give
you kind of all the data pointsthat you need in terms of
restricting foods or beingpersuasive or forceful.
And even, I'll be honest withyou, even hiding black beans in
brownies is a manipulation in atrust thing for kids.
So resist the urge to interferein any way in that division of
(48:31):
responsibility.
And when it comes to.
Eating one meal or one snack orthat is not a deal breaker if
you don't do it right a fewtimes here and there.
It's not a big deal.
It's the big picture.
So if you can establish likethe, the rules of the table and,
and having that positive youknow, family meal and, and not.
(48:53):
Making special things.
And it happens one a few times,not a huge deal, but just like
anything else with parenting, ifyou let that rule slide a little
bit, they're gonna see thatopportunity.
And so the more consistent youcan be, the better.
So try not to get too worked upover one or two little slips,
but if it's something with yourspouse that's happening more
(49:14):
often and you're seeing thattrickle down effect, You have to
be open and have thoseconversations about it.
And it's funny cuz my husband,my mom did a really good job
with doing the divisionresponsibility before it was
even really out there.
But my husband was raised wherethey used sweets as treats and,
and it was like a reward.
(49:34):
And so we've kind of had.
You know, find an equal evenground in terms of snacks and
treats.
And I'm trying not to be thefood police as the dietitian,
wife and mom, you know, andencourage and, and, and make all
foods fit.
you know, you just kind of haveto roll with the punches
sometimes.
But again, it's the consistencythat matters just giving
yourself a little.
Katie (49:55):
Absolutely.
Gosh, I think that was a greatconversation.
I think a lot of familiesstruggle with this, not just
families that have kids livingwith type one diabetes.
I think I would venture to saythere's probably a picky eater
in most families.
I can think of many friends thatI know with a picky eater in
their families.
So hopefully listeners were ableto get some good nuggets of
wisdom and.
Apply it to their family andtheir meal times and just kind
(50:16):
of lower the stress level aroundfeeding these kids.
Especially our little, littletype one diabetics.
So, So thank you Erin.
Thank you for all your time andyour advice and.
I really appreciate it.
You mentioned a few, you know,you mentioned the Ellen Satter
website and I know you have afew resources that you think
would be helpful to listenersjust kind of surrounding this
(50:36):
whole arena of having a pickyeater.
So I will link you, just pass'emalong to me and I will link them
in the show notes so people canget to'em.
Aren (50:42):
Yeah, that sounds great.
Katie (50:44):
All right.
Well I will talk with you soon.
Aren (50:46):
Yes.
Great day.
Katie (50:50):
That's it for our episode today, be be sure to check out
the show notes for links, towhere you can find Erin on her
website and on social media.
You may need Aaron's help.
You may need Aaron's help as aregistered dietician or as a
diabetes educator or both.
And if you do again, check outthe links in the show notes.
I will be back next week withanother episode I recorded with
(51:12):
Aaron.
So be sure to check it out.
Until then stay calm and boluson bye.
Hello, and welcome to episode 93 of the sugar mamas
podcast.
Today.
I'm back with Aren Dodge,registered dietician.
Diabetes educator.
And a lovely person who has beenliving with type one diabetes
for nearly 30 years.
I recorded an episode last weekwith Aren called raising a
healthy and competent eater.
That's episode 92.
(00:21):
If you want to go back and takea listen.
And today our topic.
Is how to handle and encourageour picky eaters.
This episode is really great forreally anybody that has a picky
eater in their family.
All right.
Let's get started.
You're listening to the sugarmamas podcast, a show designed
(00:42):
for moms and caregivers of typeone diabetics here.
You'll find a community oflike-minded people who are
striving daily to keep theirkids safe, happy, and healthy in
the ever-changing world of typeone.
I'm your host and fellow T one Dmom, Katie Roseboro.
Before we get started.
(01:02):
I need you to know that nothingyou hear on the sugar mamas
podcast should be consideredmedical advice.
Please be safe, be smart, andalways consult your physician
before making changes to the wayyou manage type one diabetes.
Thanks.
Hello.
I am back today with Aren Dodge,and Erin was on our last
(01:26):
episode, episode 92, aboutraising a healthy eater, just
kind of in general, and thenkind of looking at that also
through the lens of.
Having a child with type onediabetes.
Aren, just a reminder, is aregistered dietician.
She's a certified diabetes careand education specialist, which
is also known as a diabeteseducator.
And she's also been living withType one diabetes for quite some
(01:48):
time.
Almost 30 years you said?
Aren (01:50):
Yeah.
30 years in January.
Katie (01:53):
Okay.
Whew.
That diversity is coming up
Aren (01:56):
Mm-hmm.
Katie (01:56):
three decades.
That's, that's quite a while.
Aren (01:59):
it's a lot to celebr.
Katie (02:00):
Yes, it absolutely is a lot to celebrate.
Lots of strength and resilienceToday our episode is going to be
specifically on kind of helpingyour picky eater again, kind of
just in general but then alsolooking at that a little bit
through the lens of having a, achild who might be a pick picky
eater who also has type onediabetes.
So Erin, we're just gonna startwith a simple question of what
(02:24):
does it mean to be a pickyeater?
So what is kind of like normaleating and what's considered
picky eating for a.
Aren (02:31):
Well, if you think about it through the lens of a child
all food is sort of strange andnew.
And so all kids for the mostpart have some level of
pickiness.
if you think about.
We've been eating the same foodsfor years and years and years,
and this is literally, even if afive year old has only seen
certain foods once or twice.
(02:52):
So if you think about trying anew food for the first time, you
kind of have to be a little bitskeptical and I feel like A lot
of kids.
I mean, pick eating is normalfor the most part, but there's
some cases where it starts tointerfere with the atmosphere of
the dinner table, and it startsto be kind of become a problem
(03:14):
with planning meals and sittingdown at the table.
So there's a few questions thatcan help you decide if you have
a picky eater.
So number one, does your childget upset?
She sees unfamiliar food.
Does she only ever eat a few, anever shrinking list of certain
foods?
Does she worry she'll be unableto eat away from the house or
(03:35):
like a friend's house or at arestaurant or something?
And then do you make specialfood for her in order to get her
to eat?
And then the last one, which isreally important is are you
upset about her eating?
again, The dinner table issupposed to be a joyful sort of
place where you get to sit downwith your family probably one of
the only times during the daybecause the day is so busy and
(03:57):
everybody's rushing around.
So any kind of, I feel like kidsare even better at sensing
tension or anxiety or stressthen even adults.
So they're really tuned in.
And if you have any kind offeelings of Anxiousness around
the dinner table, they're gonnaknow it.
(04:17):
so if you feel like you answereda couple of those questions
honestly and you'd think youmight have a picky eater, then
don't worry.
We have a lot of tips today thatwe're gonna go through that can
kind of help nudge your eateralong your child along to be a
more competent eater and tobring a little bit more joy back
to your, your family meals.
Katie (04:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm just thinking about myown family and some of my kids
are pickier than others.
You know, it's so interestinghow these kids can come out of
the same parents and then justhave such, just different
personalities, especially whenit comes to eating and the
willingness, with which they'rewilling to try new foods and
just.
It's just crazy how they're allso different.
(04:57):
I'm very grateful that Sarah, mytype one diabetic is probably my
most adventurous eater.
She's willing to try the mostfoods and she loves most
vegetables, and so I'm very, I'mvery grateful for that.
But I'm hoping to pick up some,some tips and tricks today to to
deal with my with my boys.
My other two kiddos.
They're a little bit pickierwhen it comes.
When it comes to eating.
So I wanted to ask you, I wantedto ask you, you know, last
(05:20):
episode we talked a lot aboutthe Ellen Sadder method.
She's world renowned.
She, you know, her big thing iskind of the division of
responsibility when it comes tofeeding your family and your
kids coming to the table.
So how does just the picky eaterfit into the Ellen Satter?
Model.
And you might wanna givelisteners just a quick overview
(05:41):
of what the division ofresponsibility is as a, as a
review.
Aren (05:44):
Right.
So Ellen Satter kind of combinesthe psychology side of eating
with the nutritional side.
And what we know is that youcan't make a child eat a food.
They have to want to eat it.
especially some of your reallyHardheaded, you know, strong
willed children you can forcethem to sit at the table for
(06:06):
hours before they'll eat thatfood and get up or not eat it at
all, and you just give in.
So try to you know, have apositive attitude and energy
around the table around eating.
But Ellen Satter.
If you haven't gone and visitedher website it's the Ellen
Satter Institute, but thehandout that she does for the
division of responsibility.
(06:26):
gives you guidance as a parenton what your job is with feeding
and what the child's job is witheating.
And the parent's job is to focuson the what, when and where of
meals and snacks.
So what you're feeding, whenyou're feeding it, and where
you're gonna have that food.
(06:47):
And then the child'sresponsibility is what to eat
from what you're provid.
And whether or not to eat atall.
So those are the child'schoices.
So remember to stay in yourlane, don't get tempted to kind
of veer into theirresponsibility and even just the
slightest.
Persuasive way.
(07:08):
I always joke about the mom looklike, you know, when you give
them like, that look like youbetter eat or you know, what are
you doing?
You know, stop doing what you'redoing right now.
And they know exactly what thelook is and that is gonna
backfire at the table,unfortunately.
And what they found is, soremember we know.
Kids, it takes 10 to 20 neutralexposures to different, to a new
(07:30):
food for a child to come aroundto warm up to it, for it to lose
its strangeness so that they'llactually try it.
And that could look like pokingit with their finger licking it.
Putting it in their mouth andspitting it back into the
napkin.
That is them moving themselvesforward without pressure to
decide if they want to eat thatfood or not.
(07:50):
And then after the 10 or 20times when they've come around
to liking that food, they may ormay not eat it at that meal that
you prepare.
So it's really hit or miss andyou just have to support that
process of the divisionalresponsibility again.
The parent is providing thewhat, when and where, and the
child is deciding what they'regoing to eat and whether they're
(08:12):
going to eat it at all.
And this is a really trickytopic to to wrap your head
around because it feels oppositeof what you should be trying to
do as a mom or any kind ofcaregiver for that matter around
meals.
think the divisionalresponsibility, if you can kind
of set and follow thoseguidelines, you'll really see
more eating competence with yourkids.
(08:34):
You're gonna find that they eatmore variety of foods and
they're more curious to try newfoods.
But just like anything else withparenting, you wanna look at the
long game.
And with diabetes too, it's notjust getting them to eat
vegetables tonight, it'ssupporting them.
Physically and emotionally withthose family meals so that
they'll grow up to be competenteaters.
(08:57):
And it may take them, like yousaid, you have different
personalities at your dinnertable.
And there are some that are sojoyful, adventurous, like
they'll try new things, they'llput it in, you know, they'll,
you know, even try chewing it upand eating it.
Without even making a face.
But then my for example, mydaughter's that way, but my son
totally skeptical.
(09:17):
He thinks you're out to get himlike that, you're trying to
trick him into tastingsomething.
And even if it's the mostdelicious thing, like we had a
fight over cotton ca, not afight, but like it was over
cotton candy and cuz it was aweird texture and he was like
really suspicious about it.
And then he finally tasted itand loved it.
Again, it's that temperament andthe personality of each of your
(09:39):
children, which again, as a mom,you know your kids better than
anybody else.
So you may already have in mindthat, you know, if you have more
of a strong willed child or askeptical child around the
table, you're gonna see thisshow up in picky eating.
So,
Katie (09:55):
Yeah.
I really love what you saidabout it takes 10 to 20 neutral
exposures to.
A new food or just a food ingeneral before kids might be
willing to try it.
And, you know, and so I thinkthat word neutral is so
important to really kind of letthat sink in because like you
said, like that really meansthat the parent has to come to
(10:15):
the table with, I, I, I'menvisioning all of us, like
tying our hands behind our backsand putting like duct tape over
our mouth because it's so hardnot to say things or, you know
you know, push things, push.
Plates of food closer to peopleor even just, you know, body
language with your eyes and theway you're breathing.
You know, just really, youreally have to get into the
(10:37):
mindset of like, okay, I really,I really don't care whether or
not they try this.
Like, the important thing isthat they're being exposed to
it.
This, you know, and you thinkabout like, just, let's take
broccoli for instance.
I mean, First of all, I do wannasay that you can force a child
to eat a food because I havedone it before.
I have forced my oldest son toeat broccoli.
(10:57):
And let me tell you theconsequences were not fun
because he vomited all over thetable.
Now he's 12 now.
This was when he was much, much,much younger.
I'm talking like four or five orsomething, but yeah, don't
recommend it.
So, so.
Maybe in truth, you cannot forcethem to eat it, at least,
unless, you know, not withoutsome consequences that are
(11:17):
really gross and disgusting.
But but yeah, you know, that,and that was not a neutral
exposure at all because that wasme really forcing that upon him
of like, No, you have to trythis, or you have to take a
bite.
And it didn't end well.
And to this day, he still, hestill hates broccoli.
Aren (11:31):
it's so interesting with even the research shows that if
you pressure a child to try toeat food or like even just being
sar, I don't know, being like adrama like.
Oh my gosh, this, this is sodelicious.
You've gotta try this.
Like, even that kind ofpersuasiveness, kids are so
smart and they can see you playin them.
(11:52):
And that feel, that manipulationand it, it's almost like reverse
psychology.
Like they will do the oppositeof what you're trying to
encourage them and get them todo because it feels very Sort of
forceful and, you know,unnatural for example.
So they at the table, if you'relike, matter of fact, and you're
like, Well, I don't, you know,if you wanna try it, you can.
(12:14):
And you just kind of.
Man, it changes the mood aroundthe table.
Number one for the kids becausethey don't feel the pressure and
they're more likely to try newthings when there's not a lot of
pressure on them to eat.
On the other hand, especiallyyour strong, strong willed
child, they'll intentionally noteat it because they know you
want them to eat it.
(12:35):
So it's almost the less, if youtake a step back, number one,
the kids are going to respond alot.
You're not gonna have so muchstress and guilt on your
shoulders about getting them toeat vegetables because you just
kinda let it go.
It's just a matter of fact.
You know, divisionalresponsibility, and especially
with older kids, when youacknowledge that and say, Look,
(12:57):
I'm not gonna make you eatanything you don't wanna eat.
You can try it if you want.
It's at the table.
You can help yourself or nothelp yourself and eat as much or
as little as you want.
And.
Like it's, it's miraculous howthey will grow up to like the
same foods that you eat and thatyou have exposed them to, and in
terms of competent eating,they'll be.
(13:18):
Able to kind of have thatschedule and routine in their,
in their day to day life to kindof provide reliable meals and
snacks if they need'em, and theneven push themselves along
almost, It's almost kind of likea hierarchy of needs where.
They'll start being like, almostlike foodies, very at the very
end.
So they start out with justbeing super skeptical, eating a
(13:39):
few things, and then they'llpush themselves along with
support and encouragement in theright way at the dinner table to
then be able to Take care ofthemselves when they're not at
home, which is the, again, thatend game we are talking about.
So again, it's not getting themto eat vegetables right now,
it's getting them to be acompetent eater later on in
life.
Katie (13:59):
absolutely.
And I wanna, you know, kind ofshortly after that broccoli
incident all those many yearsago, we kind, I had a
conversation with my husband andwe kind of backed off a little
bit at the dinner table cuz itjust wasn't an enjoyable
experience, you know, we're, wewere just so fixated on what
they were eating, how much of itthey were eating, if they were
being.
if they were trying the foods ortaking a bite of the foods that
(14:19):
were on their plate or whatever.
So we kind of backed off andit's just so much more peaceful
and enjoyable to come to thetable and just not have really
any expectations as to what theymight eat or how much of
something they might eat.
And I will say for my son, hestill doesn't like broccoli, but
he's become much moreadventurous in what he'll try
and eat.
So I can kind of see that, youknow, I have I have filled my
(14:42):
responsibility of providing, youknow, like, like you said, with
the division of responsibility,like what we're eating when
we're eating it and where, andthen I'm just kind of letting
him figure out the, how much ishe going to eat of it and
whether or not he's going to eatit.
I'm, I'm letting him figure thatout on his own.
And I, and like you said, it'ssuch a long game cuz I mean,
we're talking now.
What, 7, 8, 9 years of just kindof being more relaxed at the
(15:05):
dinner table and, and what werequire them to eat, you know?
And we're finally seeing the,the fruits of that, right?
The benefits of that.
And now he's starting to try newthings and branch out and, and
eat more of what's put on thetable.
But it takes, takes a really,really, really long time
sometimes, especially if, youknow, we had years of probably
not great healthy habits at thedinner table to kind of
(15:27):
overcome.
In push pass, but so I, I wannatalk about, you know, parents
that kind of get stuck in thistrap or the cycle of catering to
their children.
You know, cuz a lot of timeswhen we have a picky eater it
can just be really stressful andat the end of the day, we're
tired and we really just wantthem to eat something and not
have to listen to them complainabout it.
So a lot of parents will startto cater to their, to their
(15:48):
picky eaters and only fix whatthey know they like and what
they know they, they'll eat.
I think as parents, we thinkthat's.
Minimizing the stress, butreally it's, for us at least,
it's creating more stress.
Cuz now we're having to do morework.
We're having to you know, cookthis one meal for the family,
but then cater to this otherchild who's refusing to eat the
one meal.
Then there's more cleanupinvolved.
(16:08):
I mean, you know, the list goes,goes on and on.
And then of course you're stillstuck with the guilt of like,
Oh, this kid still isn't, Eatinganything that I'm cooking and I
feel bad about it.
So how can we kind of get out ofthat cycle, break that cycle of
just catering to our children,our picky eaters.
Aren (16:22):
Man, I feel like a lot of it kind of stems from guilt, but
remember the division ofresponsibility and let's not
forget how hard it is to have afamily meal.
Like all the planning and allthe things that have to, the
stars have to align to geteverybody to sit down around the
dinner table, to have thegroceries, to make a recipe.
(16:43):
It's a lot of effort and energy.
So you know, it's reallydisappointing and discouraging
when you do all that.
And then, like you were saying,you sat down, everybody's
whining and complaining cuz theydon't have what they like and
you know, you're, you have likethe rules, you want'em to try to
eat all the stuff that you made,but then it like backfires.
You don't get to enjoy yourdinner.
(17:04):
And the atmosphere around thetable is.
You know, it's just notenjoyable for anybody.
So I feel like you can kind ofleave your agenda and just focus
on the time together.
Prepare foods that you and youknow, that you like.
So at least if someone's gonnaeat it, you're gonna at least
get to enjoy it if you put allthat energy into it.
(17:26):
And then with the division ofresponsibility, Kids will come
around to like the foods thattheir parents eat.
So if you guys are meetingpotato kind of people, you can't
expect your child to start justliking asparagus outta nowhere.
It's all that exposure of thosesame foods over and over again
where the kids will start tolike the foods that you kind of
(17:47):
have.
Around the table most often.
And then is if they can getcomfortable with that, then
they'll push themselves along totry new things.
But there's a checklist of fivethings that you can try to start
implementing with the divisionresponsibility that can make.
Your picky eaters sort of comearound and make those dinner
times and meal times a littlebit more enjoyable.
(18:10):
So number one is start withhaving regular meals and sit
down snacks.
That way your child will behungry when they come to the
table.
They're not grazing andpanhandling for snacks and stuff
in between meals, so only waterin between meals and scheduled
sit down snack.
And I, I think this is hard,especially when you have a picky
eater because you feel like, Ohmy gosh, they're gonna starve to
(18:32):
death.
They're not gonna get enough toeat, so I need to feed'em
whenever they want to eat,whenever they're hungry.
And then you fall into that trapwhere, when it's time to
actually sit down and eat themeal that you work so hard to
prepare.
They're not hungry.
And then when they come to sitdown at the table, then they
behave like a jerk because theydon't wanna be there, they're
not hungry, and you almost haveto bribe them to get'em to stay
(18:53):
at the table.
So if you can get that structurelined up and resist the urge to
have any kind of juice or snack,unless they're going low,
obviously that's the oneexception, but only water
between meals and scheduled.
And then that way everyone comesto the table hungry.
Number two is be consideratewithout catering.
(19:15):
So this is a really, reallyimportant thing to consider if
you answered yes to some ofthose picky eater questions.
this is also a good place towhere you can leave the guilt.
So your job is to be consideratewithout catering.
So don't ask your child whatthey want for dinner.
Just include one or two thingsthat you know, that they
(19:36):
normally eat at that one meal.
that way that they havesomething that, you know,
they'll at least eat one, evenif it's just one thing, even if
it's bread with butter, or evenif it's just the rice that you
make with the stir fry.
At least it's one thing youknow, that they'll eat and do
not get into that trap of makingspecial food.
Again, it just perpetuates andmakes it, like you said, more
(19:58):
work for you, more stress foryou, more cleanup for you.
And then down the road, what iteventually does is it makes the
picky eater more picky when youcater that way.
Number three, follow thedivision of responsibility.
Again, staying in your lane withthe what to prepare, when to
prepare it and.
What did I miss?
The what, when and where.
Katie (20:19):
Mm-hmm.
Aren (20:19):
And remind your child.
You don't have to eat.
Those words are really hard tosay, but it's really freeing for
a child that's been pressuredwith the One Bite Rule or the
Key Clean Plate Club and some ofthese well-intended um,
approaches with feeding thatsort of makes meals miserable
for kids.
(20:39):
So.
Say, you don't have to eat.
You can choose whatever you wantto eat from what I'm serving and
just leave it at that.
show her you mean it, kind ofstick to your rules.
Don't make extra special food.
Or if she asks for like a bowlof cereal or a peanut butter and
jelly right after dinner, say,I'm sorry, we're gonna wait till
our next snack or meal and thenyou can have something then.
(21:00):
But again, you don't want.
You wanna have a good backboneto sort of set these guidelines,
and they'll push it.
They'll push those limits.
They'll beg and sneak food kindof in between.
But once you set the rules andthe guidelines, they'll fall
into those patterns and rulesand they'll know if they don't
eat, they're gonna have to waituntil the next meal or snack
before they have something.
(21:21):
All right.
Katie (21:22):
Yep.
Aren (21:23):
number four.
Don't pressure her in any way toeat.
this includes like the, even thebody language like you were
talking about, but don't bribe.
Encourage cheerlead, rewardforce glare, punish, deprive,
deceive, make a big deal ofloving the food, or talk about
(21:43):
how much she dislikes food orhow picky she is or her likes
and dislikes.
So again, just make it matter offact.
Don't really make a big dealabout it and just push forward
with having that positive energyand attitude around the table.
And eventually again, it takes alittle while to undo if you've
had some of those pressuresituations for her to kind of
(22:06):
settle in and get comfortableand not feel like she has to eat
any one thing.
Katie (22:11):
Mm-hmm.
Aren (22:12):
She may eat a whole loaf of bread at one.
I'm exaggerating, but you know,if that's the one thing she's
had, and maybe it's beenrestricted in the past, you may
find that she's like, Oh mygosh, I can have as much bread
as I want and eat all of thatbread.
But after a few meals of havingjust bread and butter and eating
that much, She's just gonna kindof, it's gonna lose its luster
(22:34):
because it's not restrictedanymore.
It's just you're offering, youknow, the food that you're
serving and that's it.
And Your eater, your child willcome around to eating a more
variety of foods.
But there is that adjustmentperiod where you're starting
something new that if you justhang in there, it will make
things easier for youespecially, but then also you'll
(22:56):
see it come along gradually withyour children and how they're
eating and how the table, how,how the atmosphere of the table
feels.
Katie (23:04):
I like what you said about not, and I know, I think
there's one more, number fivethat you, did you get to number
five?
Okay.
So I like what you said thoughabout not.
Like making too big of a dealout of it when they do eat
something new or they do, youknow, try new food or whatever
it may be.
Like, don't go into megacheerleading mode and, and
praise them.
I, I know for my, some of mykids, not all of them, if I were
(23:27):
to do that, they would, theywould be like, Well, I'm never
doing that again.
You know what I mean?
Like, just to, I guess that's astrong willed child, or I'm not
sure what you would call that,but they, they respond in the
opposite way when I.
When I encourage them like that,when I kind of get overly
excited about them tryingsomething new or liking
something new, they're likeimmediately turned off by that
and they don't wanna continuedoing it.
Aren (23:48):
Right.
And it feels, again, likepersuasive in a way where like,
oh man, that, you know, like,they must want me to eat this,
and it might, you know what Imean?
Like, it's just that wholereverse psychology thing.
So, so yeah.
The, the dinner.
Table is not a good spot forlike the, the sticker charts.
Again, the more of a deal youmake out of it, the more it's
gonna backfire.
The less, the more calm andcasual you are about The food is
(24:12):
surprisingly when you're gonnasee the kids kind of push
themselves along and come aroundto eating and In terms of number
five, it kind of ties all ofthat together where you want to
make meals a pleasure and aprivilege.
So have great conversation, makeit fun, and you know, give them
each little jobs that they cando, whether it's getting
(24:33):
silverware or, or napkins orwhatever to kind of help get
involved in, in that family mealsetup.
There's some really cool thingsout there now where you can do
like the rose and the thorn,like where you have that
positive conversation about howthe day went, what was the rose
would be like, the best thingthat happened to you.
And then the thorn would be thething that wasn't as great that
happened.
So you can kind of go around thetable and kids just love to
(24:55):
share and talk about their day,but give everybody a turn and.
It makes a really positiveexperience around the table.
And when they looked at theresearch as much as your kids
kind of moan and grown kids,including teenagers, love family
meals, they love thatconnection.
And again, we know in researchthat kids who sit down at family
(25:17):
meals do better in life overall.
They're you know, less likely todo drugs and, and you.
Be promiscuous and be targetschool.
And I mean, the list goes on andon about um, smoking cigarettes
and things where they feel moreconnected and have that family
support and encouragement.
Katie (25:37):
Makes'em feel like they belong to something.
Right.
Aren (25:39):
Right, right, right.
And the other caveat to thatmake meals pleasure and a
privilege, especially when itcomes to manners.
So set some guidelines for thatpicky eater where.
You're not allowed to say yew,that's nasty and disgusting
because that might hurt someoneelse's feelings.
Who likes that food?
And it's also insulting to thechef, so you can say with good
(26:01):
manner, Say yes please, or Nothank you.
And behave at the meal.
And again, I feel like with theyounger children, if you can get
them to come to the tablehungry, not starving, but like
where they're not just had asnack and then they're sitting
down at the table, they'llbehave pretty well and they'll
participate.
Especially if you do that, thosesort of activities I even just
(26:23):
saw An advertisement for a cardgame that gives you like little
prompts that you pass out andyou kind of talk about that
question.
There are a lot of fun ways thatyou can make it interesting and
you know, kind of takes a littlebit of the pressure away from
the food and more on theconnectedness.
And that's the biggest deal whenit comes to food because food is
not just nutrition, it's got alot of emotional connection to.
Katie (26:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
We like to play.
Would you rather around thedinner table sometimes where
everybody takes a turn coming upwith a would you rather
question?
And yeah, manners.
What I tell my kids is, youknow, you don't have to like the
food or even eat the food, but Ido expect you to be polite and
respectful so you will notcomplain about the food.
you need to.
(27:07):
Somewhat neat when you eat thefood you know, we don't, we
don't need, we don't need facesdown in plates trying to eat,
you know, we are gonna use,we're gonna use utensils and
napkins and all that sort ofthing.
So so yeah, I mean, I have sentmy kids away from the table
before for, for those things,for, for being.
Just rude and disrespectful andcomplaining about the food and,
you know, saying things thatwould be hurtful to me.
(27:28):
And it helps to, you know, havemy husband kind of get in on
that too, because he, you know,he'll, he'll say things like,
you know, you're, you're beingdisrespectful to your mother.
She worked hard to, to cook thismeal, and, and you're sitting
here complaining about it.
You don't have to eat it, butyou're not gonna sit here and
complain about it.
So, you know, if you can, if youcan rope your partner into
helping you with that too.
But in that same breath, likefamily meals, I think the
(27:48):
public's commercials andeverything have made us think
that it has to be this.
Whole complete family unit witha mom and a dad and you know,
the kids and everything.
But I mean, it can be singleparents.
It can be done in the car on theway to sporting events.
I mean, you know, it just, it'sjust that togetherness.
You know, again, the parents areresponsible for where, so where
does it necessarily have tomean?
(28:09):
Sitting around the kitchentable, you know, you can get
creative with the wear.
And you have to get creativewith the wear a lot of times
when your kids are getting olderand they're involved in a lot of
activities.
So I just didn't want anybody toget stuck in that kind of trap
of, oh gosh, this has gotta belike sitting at the table with
the whole family.
Many, you know, cuz I'm married,but my husband does travel a
lot, so a lot of times it isjust me and my kids.
Aren (28:30):
And you can kind of make it fun too, like do a picnic.
You can, you know, sit down.
I mean, and you can eat in theliving room too if that's your
jam, but you wanna make sure youdon't have any distractions.
So no phones or TV on where itkind of makes you forget about
your, your eating experience andyour fullness and satiety cues
and hunger cues and stuff.
But yeah, you could.
(28:51):
You know, adventurous and evenjust like you said, like on the
way to practice, like hand backsnacks and, and, and different
like combinations of foods tohave a, a meal
Katie (29:01):
Mm-hmm.
Aren (29:02):
And you know, I, I feel like my kids are getting to the
age where we're starting thatrun around crazy afterschool
activities and it, it getschallenging.
So just doing the best you canand just removing that.
And I think that will go a longway and your kids will feel it
at the table, and it will be alot less on your shoulders in
terms of expectations, becauseagain, like you said, there's
(29:25):
public's, commercials, and likeeven just the expectations of
having a family meal, Seven daysa week and it can get tricky, it
can get overwhelming and it's alot of work and a lot of
cleanup.
So yeah, just give yourself alittle bit of grace.
Start with where you are and ifthat's you know, microwave
dinners.
That's perfect.
So you can all sit down togetherand have the microwave meal or
(29:49):
microwave dinner or leftoversor, you know, even if you go to
the restaurant and bring ithome, you can all sit down
together and still have thatemotional connection with you
know, your evening meal or your,your, your dinner conversation.
Katie (30:02):
Absolutely.
Okay.
So I feel like you've touched alot on this in the last question
that we had.
But I kind of had here, what aresome ways to encourage our picky
eaters?
And then what are somesuggestions for parents that are
kind of wanting to wanting toattempt to introduce new foods
to their picky eaters?
And I know you hit on this alittle bit, it reminds me a lot
your answer about like lettingthem like.
And poke at it and stuff likethat.
(30:23):
Like I have a friend who's aspeech therapist and that's a
lot of what she does.
She just, she lets kids likesmell food and then like lick
food or touch it on theirtongue.
It's like exposure therapy andtiny little increments.
Aren (30:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say, One of the bestways is getting kids involved
around meal prep.
So have them involved in like,Hey, what's, you know, is there
a recipe that you'd like to tryor helping having them help you
with meal prep or, like we said,give them little jobs with like
the silverware or the napkins orsetting the table.
(30:56):
And then as they get older, youcan give them more jobs and
responsibilities to whereeventually they'll be able to
help you prepare the mealthemselves with a little help
and like a grocery list.
So it's kind of cool to watchthem blossom into adults and
have more responsibility aroundthe meal time so that once
they're on their own, you kindof have a little bit more trust
that they're.
Make it, they're gonna be ableto do it on their own and not
(31:18):
just eat microwave ramen for therest of their lives, you know?
But even doing like a littlegarden and letting them sort of
smell the basil and lick it andtaste it and sort of smash it in
their fingers and, you know,that sort of pushes them along
in a neutral environment to beexposed and experienced
different foods.
So That I think again, just kindof creates that emotional
(31:39):
connection with the food goingto, you know, we have we're
lucky to have down our road, wehave a lady that has ducks and
chickens, so we always go andget like eggs and like duck eggs
and chicken eggs, and we got togo meet the, the chickens and
the ducks at one point with ourkids.
And so they have that connectionwith emotionally, with the
farmer and all that.
(32:00):
Farmer's markets and going tovisit farms and things like that
are another way to sort ofexpose them to food and count
that towards their exposure towhere they'll come around to
eating it more with thatemotional connection.
Katie (32:14):
Yeah.
my kids like to come.
I, I like to try to do it one ata time just cuz it's a little
stressful to have all three inthe grocery store at the same
time.
It's getting better now thatthey're getting older, but, you
know, I like to one at a timekind of take them with me to the
grocery store and they can helpme bag up the, the fruits in the
vegetables and, you know, getthings off the shelves.
And I think they enjoy that too,you know, just that one on one
(32:35):
time and they're being helpfuland they.
See all the variety of, even ifthey don't like to eat the foods
at the moment, they can just seewhat a variety of food there.
You know, there are what?
There's so much out there.
Aren (32:46):
Right, Exactly.
And then the other thing I willsay, so one of the biggest tips
for introducing a new food is totry and pair it with a familiar
food.
So So put yourself in a child'sshoes that's trying a brand new
food for the first time andthink like, go to like Food
Network and like AnthonyBourdain, like traveling across,
(33:07):
like if you go to some exoticcountry and you're setting down
to eat with the locals, it feelsreally overwhelming when you
don't have any clue what any ofthe food is, even if you're
really adventurous with.
Katie (33:18):
Mm-hmm.
Aren (33:19):
you see a pile of rice on the corner of the plate, you're
like, Oh, shoot.
At least I have something that Iknow that I'll eat.
So it kind of takes that stressoff of new food and new meals.
And like I mentioned with thestir fry, if it's a mixed dish,
sometimes just deconstructing itmakes it less intimidating for
them to kind of add their own.
(33:40):
Ingredients of what they like tothat dish.
Especially those sort ofchallenging foods that are all
mixed together.
So again, just combiningfamiliar foods when you're
introducing new foods.
For an example would be like, Itis the season, but like corn, if
you know your child likes cornand you want to introduce maybe
lima beans, you could maybe dolike a suck attach where it
(34:02):
would have corn and you know,peas and like some familiar
things mixed in with the limabeans that you want'em to try
again.
They're not probably gonna tryit for the first time.
They may poke the bean andsquish it, which is a success.
Or they may spit it back intothe napkin if they try it, but
those are, Successes in yourchild, moving themselves forward
into liking and trying newfoods.
(34:23):
So just be patient.
And again mixing a familiar foodwith an unfamiliar food is gonna
get you a lot further with themwanting to experiment and try
something else, especially ifthey helped you pick it out at
the grocery store.
You.
Katie (34:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I have found too, that mykids really like to serve
themselves.
if I, and, and it takes a l alittle bit of work off of my
plate, no pun intended.
As well, because, you know,before I would be like getting
everybody's plate ready beforewe came to the dinner table,
which has a lot of work.
And so I have found that it's,it's a lot easier and more
(34:58):
enjoyable and people like itmore when I just kind of put the
bowls of things on the table andthey can serve themselves.
Yeah.
Aren (35:05):
And that's actually recommended with the, the
division of responsibility inlike family meals is that family
style of serving and it makes iteasier.
For you too, also to kind ofhave the kids can kind of choose
more of whatever they want.
So it does alleviate some ofthat guilt of you having to get
back up and go serve them morethings.
(35:25):
And everybody can still sitaround and pass the food and it
does, it, it makes it.
Flow easier and and simpler.
And I feel like it doesreinforce the statement that you
make.
You can have as much or aslittle or none at all of any of
the foods that I'm serving.
So here it is, you know, choosefrom what, what's out there.
Katie (35:44):
You know, it's interesting, I went to summer
camp with Sarah this pastsummer.
It wasn't a diabetes camp, itwas a just a church camp.
And.
I'm not kidding.
I, there was probably a groupof, my sister and I were in
charge of like the fourth gradegirls and there was a lot of'em.
There was like, I don't know, 12of'em or something.
And all the girls that had beento camp the year before, Sarah
had not.
But all the girls that had,they, they said their favorite
(36:06):
thing about camp was getting wasthe food.
And it wasn't really the fooditself.
It.
The, that they got to servethemselves.
You know, it's this like bigbuffet style of food and nobody
was telling them they had to puttheir fourth slice of pizza back
and nobody was telling them theycouldn't have a second helping
of, you know, dessert orwhatever it was.
(36:26):
They just had so much controlover what they were eating and
you know how much of it theywere eating.
And lots of the kids would go tothe salad bar and get salad.
I mean, it's not like they wereeating all junk all week long,
let me tell you, that gave me alot of anxiety, as you know,
since Sarah.
Type one.
I never knew what she was gonnaput on her plate, which was,
That was tricky.
But, and I, I wanted to talk alittle bit about this just, you
(36:47):
know, kind of putting type oneinto the mix of all this, like
for me, And I want you to, youknow, chime in as well with
like, maybe some tips and tricksfor parents.
But for me if I don't know, likeif we're in a situation like
that where I don't really knowwhat Sarah's going to eat or how
much of it she's going to eat, Ican usually guesstimate about
how many carbs I think she'sgoing to eat.
Like at least how many I thinkshe'll consume.
(37:09):
And then just kind of make it upat the end, like make up the
difference at the end.
Like, you know, if I, if Inotice she's eating a little bit
more, we can bo more.
I mean, you.
In that scenario, blood sugarsaren't probably gonna be
perfect.
But they're, at least, we're notgonna have this giant crash at
the end where I think she'sgoing to eat this and then she
hates it and doesn't eat any ofit.
So, and, and the same goes, youknow, even if we're not like at
(37:30):
a buffet style, Situation atcamp or restaurant if I'm
cooking something that's kind ofnew to our family and I'm not
really sure how much of it she'sgoing to eat, I always have
something on the table that Iknow my kids will eat.
Like, like you said, likewhether that's just a roll.
I pretty much always have somesort of cut up fruit on the
table that I know people willeat so I can kind of.
(37:51):
Base our Bos on what I know.
She definitely will eat likewith the familiar foods.
And then if she decides to eatsome of the newer foods I can
add more insulin to the mixafter the fact if we need to.
Aren (38:05):
Right.
And with an insulin pump thatmakes meal time so much easier
and less stressful.
Because, so what I would, whatyou're doing is perfect.
So I would try to guesstimatethe least amount of carbs you
think your child's going to eat.
And again, you know your kidbetter than anybody else.
So did they eat a huge snack Andthey're probably not gonna.
(38:25):
starving and so they may eat alittle bit less.
So go with the lesser number ofcarbs that you think you're
going to eat in terms ofcalculating the insulin.
Try to give that little bit as apre bowl list, and as long as
you have some kind of insulinkicking in and on board, even if
they decide to go back and getsecond helpings of carbohydrate
foods, you should be fine tojust add it at the moment or at
(38:47):
the end of the.
To kind of make up for thatextra insulin.
And one of the tips that I liketo do is When you're serving
family style in the carbohydratespecific bowl, like rice or
potatoes, use a serving spoonthat you know is a half a cup or
a third of a cup to make thecalculations easier for you and
your child to be accurate withyour carb counting.
(39:10):
So even if they do wanna servethemselves, they'll know that
one scoop is 15 grams or, or 30grams or whatever size portion
you choose with your spoon.
And then that way it makes themath a little easier.
Now if you're on injections, itgets a little trickier.
Before.
In the last episode, we talkedabout communication.
So for older kids, you can havethem kind of look at what is
(39:31):
available and the what, when andwhere of what you're serving,
and they can kind of calculateabout what they think they're
going to eat.
Oh, I'm gonna have a little bitof potatoes.
I'm gonna have a roll, and thenyou can kind of do the math and
calculate the injection as closeas you can get.
Now, if it comes to the factwhere the child wants more food,
which is absolutely fine, if youlook at the division of
(39:52):
responsibility, their job is tochoose how much and whether or
not they eat.
So you need to be careful withsaying an absolute no, but
giving them the option andcommunicating with them.
Their choices.
So let's say they want anotherhelping of potatoes.
(40:12):
So they're getting ready toscoop the potatoes out and
you're like, Ooh, we only tookinsulin for, this many carbs.
If you want extra, you have achoice.
So you can either just choose totake an extra injection for
those extra potatoes or thatextra slice of pizza or two that
you want, or you can.
Choose to pick green beans orchicken, that's not gonna make
(40:35):
your sugar spike.
So a lower carb option withoutan injection, or go ahead and
have more carbohydrate foods,but then know that they're gonna
have to take a shot with it andmaking it just so matter of
fact.
Make it like it's not anythingto do with the food and don't
put any kind of good versus badsort of connotations on the food
at the table, but just make itmatter of fact where, you know,
(40:57):
if you, if we eat morecarbohydrates, we have to take
the insulin and leave it atthat.
And again, communicating thatand letting them choose in their
division of responsibility therewith type one.
Now for younger kids, Iabsolutely a hundred percent
agree with dosing at the end ofthe meal.
It takes a lot of stress andpressure away from the table
(41:20):
when you can let your child eatwhat they're going to eat when
they're a toddler, and then doseat the end with injections.
You really can only get within ahalf a unit anyways, So just
trying to get in the ballparkand then kind of going from
there, because food jags arereal, like, especially with
toddlers.
I remember with my kids, it waslike one day they would eat
(41:40):
nothing but like Turkey andcheese and then the next day
they would eat like, you know,every carbohydrate known to man
and, and then some.
So each day is gonna look.
In general, when you think aboutnutrition, it's a three day
average.
So don't get caught up in, Oh,they didn't have any fruit
today, or they haven't eaten anyvegetables.
It's a three day average for,for kind of getting the, the
(42:03):
variety of nutrition that youneed in.
And you, again, don't sweat it.
The more you worry about it andthe more you stress, the more
the kids are gonna feel that,and it's gonna turn out again,
that psychological likenegative.
It's gonna go the opposite wayyou want get upset and it makes
it not fun for you as a mom.
There's already so much to havethat's going on that adding
(42:25):
extra stress around getting yourkids to eat the division of
responsibility can helpalleviate a lot of that guilt.
Katie (42:32):
Yeah.
Those are all great tips.
I, I really enjoy, I had neverthought about using a, serving
spoon or scoop.
That's an actual, You know, halfcup or whatever.
So you know about how muchthey're putting on their plate.
And then Yeah, I know, I'veheard a lot of toddler moms say,
or of, you know, kids livingwith type one diabetes say that
they Yeah.
Wait till after the meal and,you know that's, I think that
(42:55):
that would I agree.
I feel like that would take alot of the stress out of the.
Situation of kind of trying toguess how much they're going to
eat.
And I mean, toddlers are sounpredictable.
Aren (43:06):
Yeah's,
Katie (43:07):
I cannot even imagine.
I cannot, my hat is off to allthose parents that have, little
itty bitties.
Aren (43:12):
One last little thing I'd mention too, if you are like,
let's say you do for the toddleror even the kid that's like, eh,
you know what, not feeling it.
Like again, kids don't know whatthey're going to eat till they
really sit down at the table andthey can kind of evaluate where
they're at and what they'rehungry for and that kind of
thing.
But if you dosed and thenthere's not there's not enough
carbs to cover that insulin,then you could always supplement
(43:35):
with.
A beverage is usually the, the.
In terms of the division ofresponsibility and letting them
kind of I don't wanna say.
Get something different thaneverybody else but serving milk
and juice will make up for thosecarbohydrates that they didn't
eat for their insulin.
Those are kind of quick and easyways to sort of supplement that,
or maybe even the fruit sinceyou know that they're going to
usually eat fruit.
(43:56):
You can utilize that to see ifbut again, you kind of wanna be
cautious with how you'repressuring them to eat any food.
But specifically it makes thattricky with type one.
You need to have something tocover that insulin that you
gave.
So again, I feel like in, inlieu of raising a healthy eater
that a few scenarios of highblood sugars and dosing after
(44:18):
the meal may be worthwhile andless stress and safer for the
child in the long run.
Katie (44:25):
we have the Sarah, I would not say Sarah's a picky
eater, but we kind of have thisissue more often in the morning
than any other time of the daybecause everybody's just so
tired.
You know, we have to get up atlike 6, 6, 6 or six 15 to get
everybody out the door forschool.
So we kind of have a systemwhere I will go in and say good
morning, and ask her what shewants for breakfast, and then
(44:46):
we'll dose for it.
And then I set a timer and whenthe timer goes off, she has to
get up and get dressed and thencome out and eat her breakfast.
Which there's a lot ofcomplaints from my boys because
they don't get that.
They don't get to lay in bed andwait for their dimer to go off
They have to get up when I tell'em to get up.
But anyway but sometimes she'sjust so tired or she's like half
asleep when she tells me whatshe wants to eat and then she
gets up and gets dressed andthen kind of is like, I just
(45:08):
don't even want to eat all thisfood, or I don't actually want
to eat this specific food.
You know, I'd rather have this,and I've just had to learn to be
like, you know, let's say I gaveher 40 carbs for something and
she only eats 20 carbs worth ofthe meal.
I'll say, Hey, that's fine, butwe did do 40 carbs and I don't
want you to crash at school.
So, Whatever it is that youwant.
(45:28):
Like let's pick 20 carbs worthof something to kind of make up
the difference.
And you know, every now and thenshe'll try to be like, What
about Halloween candy?
And I'm like, Well no, because Iwouldn't let you do that even
before you had type onediabetes.
So I'm not gonna let you do thatnow.
So let's choose something like agranola bar or a piece of fruit
or you know, there's plenty ofthings in our pantry that you
(45:49):
can pick that's not Halloweencandy.
Aren (45:51):
Right.
And honestly, if you can kind ofeven treat it more like
medicine, like in terms of juiceand stuff like that, and you
don't wanna make it, like yousaid, you don't want to give
them the alternate, thealternative.
Of, Oh, if I don't eat, if Itell her 40 carbs and then I
don't eat my breakfast, thenI'll get candy that will sink in
and they will manipulate you,for those, for those carbs.
(46:13):
So make it boring, but somethingyou know that they like and that
they can get down pretty easy.
Like I said, the, the juice orlike you were like, you can
choose this or this instead, butdon't give them.
the the choice of everything inthe pantry.
Now as they get older, you cankind of give them a little bit
more responsibility withchoosing the what around snacks
(46:35):
and, and even breakfast andthings like that.
But it's, it's really tiptoeingand it's hard with diabetes to
not try to cater and then makespecial accommodations.
But you have to do it in, in thecases of where the insulin's
kicking and you don't have anycarbs on board.
Katie (46:50):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Most mornings work out prettywell, but there are those few
mornings that I'm like, Oh, yougotta, you gotta find something
else to eat.
Here's a banana.
I don't know.
Aren (47:00):
Yeah, exactly.
Katie (47:01):
Luckily she, like I said, she's not picky, so she does
love a lot of healthier options,you know, yogurts and fruits and
whatnot.
All right.
Let's see.
We already talked about theinsulin.
Okay.
I, I just, maybe let's end withwhat, just, what advice do you
have, And I know you're not amarriage counselor, but like if
parents are not seeing eye toeye on how they should approach
(47:23):
meal times with their kids,especially if they have a picky
eater.
You know, maybe one parentthinks that we should make them
sit at the table until theyclean their plate or they need
to try one bite of everything ontheir plate or whatever.
And then the other parent feelsdifferently.
What's your best advice, cuz Iknow that causes a lot of
strife.
I mean, we've been there in myfamily.
That can cause a lot of stressand strife in a relationship and
(47:44):
at the family dinner table forsure.
Aren (47:45):
It does.
And honestly, feeding is one ofthose big cornerstones of just
parenting and I feel like howyou feed your kids is a kind of
a reflection of your parentingas well, and just trying to be
on the same page.
even kind of almost presentingthe facts about, listen, the
more you pressure, the longerit's gonna take her to eat that
(48:06):
new food.
And if you refer to like thatEllen Satter Website, it'll give
you kind of all the data pointsthat you need in terms of
restricting foods or beingpersuasive or forceful.
And even, I'll be honest withyou, even hiding black beans in
brownies is a manipulation in atrust thing for kids.
So resist the urge to interferein any way in that division of
(48:31):
responsibility.
And when it comes to.
Eating one meal or one snack orthat is not a deal breaker if
you don't do it right a fewtimes here and there.
It's not a big deal.
It's the big picture.
So if you can establish likethe, the rules of the table and,
and having that positive youknow, family meal and, and not.
(48:53):
Making special things.
And it happens one a few times,not a huge deal, but just like
anything else with parenting, ifyou let that rule slide a little
bit, they're gonna see thatopportunity.
And so the more consistent youcan be, the better.
So try not to get too worked upover one or two little slips,
but if it's something with yourspouse that's happening more
(49:14):
often and you're seeing thattrickle down effect, You have to
be open and have thoseconversations about it.
And it's funny cuz my husband,my mom did a really good job
with doing the divisionresponsibility before it was
even really out there.
But my husband was raised wherethey used sweets as treats and,
and it was like a reward.
(49:34):
And so we've kind of had.
You know, find an equal evenground in terms of snacks and
treats.
And I'm trying not to be thefood police as the dietitian,
wife and mom, you know, andencourage and, and, and make all
foods fit.
you know, you just kind of haveto roll with the punches
sometimes.
But again, it's the consistencythat matters just giving
yourself a little.
Katie (49:55):
Absolutely.
Gosh, I think that was a greatconversation.
I think a lot of familiesstruggle with this, not just
families that have kids livingwith type one diabetes.
I think I would venture to saythere's probably a picky eater
in most families.
I can think of many friends thatI know with a picky eater in
their families.
So hopefully listeners were ableto get some good nuggets of
wisdom and.
Apply it to their family andtheir meal times and just kind
(50:16):
of lower the stress level aroundfeeding these kids.
Especially our little, littletype one diabetics.
So, So thank you Erin.
Thank you for all your time andyour advice and.
I really appreciate it.
You mentioned a few, you know,you mentioned the Ellen Satter
website and I know you have afew resources that you think
would be helpful to listenersjust kind of surrounding this
(50:36):
whole arena of having a pickyeater.
So I will link you, just pass'emalong to me and I will link them
in the show notes so people canget to'em.
Aren (50:42):
Yeah, that sounds great.
Katie (50:44):
All right.
Well I will talk with you soon.
Aren (50:46):
Yes.
Great day.
Katie (50:50):
That's it for our episode today, be be sure to check out
the show notes for links, towhere you can find Erin on her
website and on social media.
You may need Aaron's help.
You may need Aaron's help as aregistered dietician or as a
diabetes educator or both.
And if you do again, check outthe links in the show notes.
I will be back next week withanother episode I recorded with
(51:12):
Aaron.
So be sure to check it out.
Until then stay calm and boluson bye.
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