February 21, 2025 • 29 mins
We’re back with Part 2 of our chilling conversation with Kim from the Slaycation podcast! 🎙️ Last time, we explored the dark side of travel, but now we’re diving even deeper. We pick up right where we left off, asking Kim the big question: How does she handle the emotional weight of covering such heavy, real-life tragedies?
From there, we unravel more haunting cases she’s covered, including:
🕵️ Episode 47: Welcome to the Coast of Crime – A deep dive into some of the most dangerous and mysterious crimes that have taken place along coastal destinations. 🌊
🌲 Episode 57 & 58: On the Trail of Murder in Shenandoah (Parts 1 & 2) – A tragic case set against the backdrop of one of America’s most beautiful national parks, revealing the chilling reality that even the most serene places aren’t always safe.
Kim shares her approach to balancing respect for the victims while keeping listeners engaged, how she processes the darkness without letting it consume her, and why the Slaycation team is so passionate about telling these stories.
To hear the full stories mentioned, find Slaycation wherever you listen to podcasts. And as always, follow Suitcase Divas to keep up with our latest episodes!
🎧 Listen now!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hey guys, so welcome back travelers.
If you joined us last week, youknow that we had an amazing
chilling conversation with Kim,the host of Slaycation, and we
dove into some of the mostfascinating crazy crime true
travel, true crime I should sayLet me not get tongue twisted
here, but there were some prettycrazy stories and it got us to
(00:40):
asking the bigger question howdoes Kim handle the emotional
weight of the levity of thesetrue crime stories?
Like cause, a lot of that shithappens and that's hard to cover
such dark topics.
You know on the daily, you seewhat I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Right, and so today we're actually picking up where
we left off with Kim, and she isback to share how she processes
that, that heavy side of truecrime storytelling.
So if you've ever wondered howsomeone who's reporting on this,
who's telling these stories,handles that, kim's going to
answer that question for us intoday's episode.
We're also going to dive into afew more of the stories that
(01:21):
she's covered.
So make sure you grab yourpassport and maybe a flashlight
and let's jump right into parttwo with Kim.
From Slaycation and a lot ofthese episodes bring up a lot of
emotions the anger, the sadness, the frustration, the what
would I do?
Like, what if that were me?
How would I handle that?
What if that?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
were my feeling.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
How do you balance that emotion for yourself, like
as you're doing this, andkeeping from getting overwhelmed
or bogged down by thoseemotions?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Well, you know, I think a lot of it is just sort
of again kind of role keeping inthe back of my head, like what
is the message in this episode?
What is the overall message?
The overall message, I think,like even the McGreevy case, the
(02:11):
message is there before thegrace of God go, I we never know
until we are there.
There's not one parent that hasbeen worn down by their kid to
a stub and just gave in.
We've all been.
Yep, sure have, um, and if yousay that you haven't and that
you would never good for you,but that's because they haven't
(02:33):
been tested yet.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Never say never Cause , that's just saying hold my cup
.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Exactly, exactly, exactly, um, exactly, exactly,
(03:08):
exactly, you know.
So I think that it's it's kindof like it sort of keeps me
centered, that you know, Ialways feel like you know.
There was another case, the AmyFitzpatrick case where she went
to a friend's for New Year's.
Her family had moved to Spain,they were expats from Ireland
and that case haunts me becausethat child was so severely
(03:29):
neglected that this case pissedme the fuck off, because when I
was hearing her mom ininterviews and yes, I'm going to
say it, I was judging her.
I was judging her because I'mof the belief nobody is forcing
you to have kids.
Don't have kids.
It's that simple you don't wantto parent, because here's the
(03:51):
thing.
You don't get to go yeah youknow what?
I'm had no clue that her kid wasmissing and Was just, you know,
was more centered on theboyfriend.
(04:13):
Mm, hmm, Even though herdaughter did not, like the
boyfriend, had issues with theboyfriend, it was still about
the boyfriend, Right, and I wasjust.
So the message in that was youknow, I was.
You know, center your kids.
You know, this kid was 13 yearsold.
(04:35):
14 years old Maybe.
Yeah, I think she was actually15.
Sorry, but the thing is it'slike that's the time when you
need to really be centering yourkids, Like, yeah, I get it.
You know, I'm not saying youshouldn't have a man or a
partner.
Good for you, I think that'shealthy to do that.
But I think that the message isyou know, you have a
(04:57):
responsibility.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, and you don't abandon your kids to be with
some dude.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Exactly, it's your responsibility to be present.
And look, I almost didn't havekids because I was like, yeah, I
don't know if I can do that.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
You know.
But so I really feel likethat's a very important you know
again, and I always think likethis child would not be missing
if her mom, mom was born Right.
You know, do you find?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
yourself.
Oh sorry, Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
No, no, no.
I but I was just saying, yeah,you know, like her mom just up
and took them to Spain to livewith her and her boyfriend and,
you know, took her away from herfamily and her father and I,
you know it's.
It was just like seriously,yeah, I was pissed.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
As you were going through that.
I was curious, cause do youfind yourself like when you're
doing your research and oryou're reading, or you're seeing
those interviews, knowing aheadof time, before you even get to
the results or get to the nextstep?
You can start to read and get afeel for the bigger picture,
and not necessarily the whodunit, but you can see kind of like I
(06:08):
don't want to say right out,like, oh, I can see that video,
I saw that interview.
This is suspect.
This is number one for me.
This is who I think isresponsible.
Do you find yourself doing thatbefore you get to the results
of the case?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I you know there are yeah, I mean there.
There are certainly those timeswhen you come across
information that makes it like,oh, that seems to shine the make
, sharpen the lens and the focuson that person.
But I think also the otherthing is is that I've come to
really have this sort ofopenness like don't be surprised
(06:45):
.
You know, there are many caseswhere we would that we have
looked at and was like you know,in a court of law this would
not fly, but they did that shit.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You know what I mean.
They did that shit Like, if youknow, following the letter of
the law, would we be able toconvict?
no, but I really feel like hedid that shit right, you know,
yeah exactly interesting andthen there are cases where you
know, like we had covered a case, um, it was the sh Shenandoah
(07:23):
murders of two women, lollyWinans and Julie Williams, and
they were a couple, they werecamping and they were murdered
and this had happened in 96.
So over the course of the years, you know, they had somebody
(07:44):
that they had even arrested forthe crime and they had, you know
him.
They was locked in on thisperson and it wasn't like this
person, you know, was a gooddude, but there were, there was
like oh, but you know he may nothave, like maybe we need to,
(08:08):
and it was just.
It was just interesting that asI researched and looked at what
was going on, that so manypeople could have been capable,
if not responsible for theirmurders, like suspects out of
the wazoo, I was like so manyshitty people and the common
(08:34):
denominator, of course, isthey're all men and I was like
men.
It's men, men, that's theproblem.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Well, we have conversations about that on the
daily, but that's a differenttopic for another exactly, um,
but going back, so so I listen,I do believe that you were some
kind of a detective orinvestigator in your past life.
So if you could go on to anylocation episode and try to
(09:01):
solve the mystery where, or youknow if you had the opportunity,
which one would you go to?
And you feel like you couldsolve that murder, either
whether it was unresolved orwhether it was resolved.
You were like I could have donethis so much quicker or I would
have been able to solve thisbecause you guys dropped the
ball.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
That's interesting, cause there's a few cases, cases
and I guess, since we'retalking about it, I guess the
Max McGreevy case I would havethought, I don't know that I
necessarily would have solved itper se, but I would have
(09:44):
carried out a different.
I would unsatisfied with theresults.
They wouldn't do the.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
DNA.
They wouldn't do this Like, sowe.
I listened to that one andNatalie Holloway was the very
next year and voila, she'smissing too.
So Aruba has some problem withif somebody goes missing.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I love.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Aruba.
It's very ambient, but maybedon't send your teenager there.
So, I mean, I feel like maybeif you had more money or maybe
if you had like I don't knowwhat it takes to fly in, they
did fly in a PI for Natalie'scase, For Max's case.
I don't think they did.
She just kind of conceded andwent home.
But maybe she didn't have themeans to fly in a.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
PI.
Well, look, that's alwayssomething that we have to look
at, Like there's.
You know, a lot of people don'thave the means.
She did consult a detective whodid look at the case.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And that was when she came back to the States,
correct?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yes, now you know, the thing is is that he was
actually instrumental in helpingget the FBI involved, but then
the FBI after 9-11, it all justkind of fell to the wayside.
And I think the important thingis it's like they always talk
about, which I get it makessense to me Investigators always
(11:18):
talk about the first 48.
So you need that first 48 iscrucial and I will always
believe that, had those men beensequestered and separated, and
Because their stories weren'tadding up at all Right.
(11:38):
Right, because if you separatethe two of them and you ask them
questions, ok, you could seewhether those stories align.
And when those stories are notaligning, you could start to
chip away at those lies and getcloser and closer to what the
actual story is.
I mean, you're never going toknow what exactly happened,
(12:00):
right, but you'll get sort ofyou know, a closer, you know
understanding to what occurred,and I think that that was a
missed opportunity.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Agreed Opportunity, you know, and with the time that
has passed it is, it's it, itwas just, and then it got
completely swallowed up by thenatalie holloway case oh, and
that didn't help bring like, hey, you would think sometimes that
(12:36):
those would be.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Let's think about this.
Is a pattern, right?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
perhaps because it was pretty, that was pretty
obvious that that vander slootguy did it, but they didn't.
They didn't charge him, oh no,right away at all.
It was like a year or two later.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
It was crazy like that wasn't until he actually
killed someone somebody else.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So have you found, and in looking at cases,
especially outside the states,and stuff the differences in the
the way they handle law and theway that they handle crimes,
the way they handle suspects,victims, like, is there a
frustration, is theresimilarities between the way
they do it outside of the states?
And or how did how do younavigate that part of like well,
(13:23):
balancing what you know, how wehandle things in the states
versus how they're handling it?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well, you know, it's interesting because I think, at
the end of the day, a lot of itreally just comes down to what
is good, solid investigativeskills and what is not.
And I think, like you can have,you know, two different systems
, but the execution if you havea good execution, it could be,
(13:52):
you know, it could yield results.
You know, like in Aruba or inlike a lot of these countries,
they do what is called like a umreconstruction, like they
reconstruct the crime scene.
They have the person sort of actout or play out you know the,
the crime I mean, and I don'tknow how useful that is, but I
(14:15):
would imagine that there is apsychology behind that yeah yeah
, you know, um, but I do youknow think that, uh, if you know
that, if certain things aredone, especially right out the
gate gate could help withgetting these kinds with getting
(14:41):
answers, yeah you findconsistency in like, as we can
say, just bringing up the arubacase, for instance that that's
how they consistently handle.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
One of the things I liked that you guys talk about
and have mentioned, andespecially like your show notes
and stuff, is you don't when,when you're doing a location,
you don't generalize.
Locations is a bad area, yougive information about.
This is the what to expect ofin that area, because there's
there, unfortunately, there'scrime everywhere.
There's negative.
(15:11):
And I think you do a really goodjob of not making it sound like
don't go here, right, are youfinding consistency in the
repeat locations that you'veseen, not necessarily just in
your podcast, but in your truecrime journey all over, you know
?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Right, yeah, well, I will say that you know it's.
You know there's consistency inthat there's always going to,
no matter what, no matter where,there's always going to be some
brand of crazy.
Like you just there's not.
You know there's no gettingaround that.
(15:48):
You know there's always goingto be some danger that lurks,
just because of the nature ofhuman beings, and where there's
human beings there's going to besome freaky shit going.
Yes, we're not getting aroundthat, we're just not.
(16:11):
So.
A lot of it really isn't theplace in as much as the people
in that place.
Right, and you have to look atthe people that you are around,
right, you know it's like youwould think that you know the
McCreevy family would be safe ina nice resort and that why
(16:35):
should they be alarmed, whyshould they have their guard up
when they're just makingfriendly chit chat with a fellow
guest?
Right, I wouldn't think, likeyou know, this person could have
a deep seated history of somemajor shady shit.
Like you're not thinking likethat, you know Right.
So it's almost like it almostdoesn't really matter where you
(16:57):
are, you know, yeah, like italmost doesn't really matter
where you are, you know.
Um, yeah, it just sort ofdrives home the point that no
matter where you are, no matterhow you you perceive the safety
of that particular place, youstill have to have your guard up
yeah, right, and trust your gut.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
like for that farm mama that was worn down, like
she, like if she had it'sdoubtful that anybody at that
point you know what they've beenthrough and she was just trying
to throw the kid a bone, youknow, and let him have a good
time.
But also she did have that gutinstinct Like I don't think I
should let him go.
I really don't think I shouldlet him go.
(17:35):
Like for me.
My takeaway from that is trustyour gut.
Be the fucking bitchy mom,denise, and I feel, like if you
feel like something is wrong,then you should trust that
instinct Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Exactly, but we do get there as moms and like, okay
, you, we've been here for a fewdays.
I felt so sad about that.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
For me, that's that one.
I haven't listened to all ofthem, but for me that was the
hardest one to take away becauseshe didn't do anything wrong.
She was just trying to have agood time on vacation and she
was totally.
They were totally poached they.
They found them and they knewthey had a plan of action and
they had a history that shootshow that they were capable of
(18:20):
this and and that's just sounfortunate for that family.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So just taking a little bit of a different spin,
so you so you work with yourhusband, adam, and you work with
Jerry Do you guys ever have anychallenges of like, well, you
know, working with your husbandor with your bestie, like is
there any episodes that havecome up where you're really not
on the same page, or one thinkshe could have done it or you
think he couldn't have, or howdoes that work with spending so
(18:48):
much time with your significantother and and working on the
podcast?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
That's a lot of time, denise, and I've learned that
it's a lot of time that goesinto recording a podcast, so we
feel like we're a married couple, we call it.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
That's what it does, you know, I think, you know, I,
I'm I feel very fortunate inthat we are very much in sync
and just by being in sync andjust by being in sync, we're
sensitive to each other.
And I think that isinstrumental, because you're not
(19:24):
going to agree on everything.
You're going to have differentideas, you're going to have
different thoughts, you're goingto have, you know, you know,
adam is sort of the audienceproxy, so he's listening to me
tell the story.
So, yeah, there have been timeswhen he's like, oh, I, you know
(19:45):
, I'm not getting it, or I, youknow, and I'm like, fuck you,
you're not listening.
Yes, but you know, as somebodythat I recognize, you know, like
somebody that I recognize, youknow, like, as as the audience
proxy, you know, I always, and Ithink we both kind of take the
(20:05):
attitude of, ok, let's take astep back and let me just try to
understand where you're comingfrom.
And I think that has beenhelpful for us because, at the
end of the day, what we want todo is we want to make a great
show, we want our show toresonate with our audience, we
want, um, our takeaways to be,you know, helpful.
(20:30):
And, given that.
That's all of our primary goal.
We center that and try not tolet our own little bitchiness,
because that can happen, oh yeah.
So you have to kind of like allright, let me just take a step
(20:50):
back.
All right, where you know.
And so I think that we've kindof done really well with that.
I think Adam too, you know, areyou know, us being in a
relationship, having, you know,raised a kid, which you know I
always joke like he and I havecompletely different parenting
(21:13):
styles.
And you know, given that it waslike never, like we was not
that couple, it was like, oh myGod, we're going to like, oh my
god, we're gonna have babies andwe're gonna.
We never really discussed likewell, what are we going to do?
And come to find out completelydifferent, yes, completely
different.
That was like on the jobtraining, like yeah, so I think
(21:33):
like having been able tonavigate those challenges has
really helped us in sort oflooking at the big picture.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
And sort of you know, recognizing that whatever is
going on within us personallyand you know like, yes, maybe we
will, that needs to be dealtwith.
But right now, let's just whatis the big picture, how do we
address that?
And if I didn't like hisattitude, we'll have a
conversation about that.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, because we know who wears the pants in this
relationship exactly, did youguys have the same vision for
the podcast when you sat down tostart recording, or did it grow
?
Denise and I had one visionwhere we were sort of
professional and then it slowlyturned into this is not us,
we're more chill, we're morelaid back.
Let's break out the moment andI love, we love your vibe, we
(22:24):
love you guys.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And we like that.
You're a little bit sweary likeme.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yes, we really tried not to swear in the beginning
and bleep it out or cut it out,and we're like this is so not us
, not us.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
So we're just decided to embrace us and us, not us.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
So we just decided to embrace us, and if people don't
like swear and then don'tfucking listen to us.
That's yeah, no, but I thinkthat that's the best advice
really be who you are.
Yeah, and you know, it'sactually funny my daughter went
to um, uh, she went to cathCatholic school and the patron
saint of the school was FrancisDeSales and and this, there was
(23:05):
this saying that was all overthe school.
It was you know, be yourself.
It sort of is be yourself andbe it well, which you know, I, I
think you know is is a goodthing to live by.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I mean, unless you're a shitty person and then they
get to be an episode, exactly.
But I think that, like, I takeit as a call to really work, to
being our best selves.
You know, and I think, like youknow, doing the podcast is a
journey and it's a personaljourney, because you're each
(23:45):
having the journey together butseparately, and you're kind of
coming together to go, yeah,this isn't working.
This works better for us.
We enjoy being authenticallyourselves and this is a place
where I believe we can do that.
(24:07):
And I agree because I feel like.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
We came to that as well.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Like we're not journalists and there are plenty
of true crime podcasts thatwill give you that journal deep
dive, researched from thatinvestigative, you know,
forensic, you know dry, you know, and just recognizing like
we're not for everybody, but wedon't have to be just like you
(24:33):
guys.
Yes, and that's okay, there'ssomething out there for everyone
.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's what makes it takes allkinds to make the world.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yes, so do you have any upcoming projects or
exciting things that we shouldtell our listeners to be on the
lookout for?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Well, you know, I think I would just say just give
our podcast a listen.
You know, I just give ourpodcast a listen.
(25:18):
I do some bonus content where Italk about different things.
A lot of it is maybeinformation that didn't make it
into the original episode, orupdates.
Sometimes, you know, like Ihave a case of a Valentine's Day
case that I'm going to talkabout.
So I would just you know, ifyou feel like you want to laugh,
if you feel like you want tolearn, if you feel like you want
to, just, you know, journeythrough the dark psyches of our
(25:39):
crazy fellow human beings, youknow, come, come, one and all.
Yeah, we, you know it's hardtopics, but we have a good time
and I think that we put outsomething that is useful and
(25:59):
important because feel, in asense, there's something special
about the people in the storynot being forgotten.
Right, absolutely yep.
So where?
Speaker 1 (26:11):
can our listeners find Slaycation on your um and
go ahead and follow you like?
What formats?
What are you on?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
well, we are on facebook, which is kind of where
most of our um slay caters go,so it's a slay caters only.
Um, we have that page andplease come.
And we have uh slaycation,which is also another facebook,
it's more broad.
We have Slaycation WTF onInstagram, right On Instagram,
(26:46):
and I actually have a you knowcause.
I'm a rabid knitter, crocheter,crafter, like I have to have my
hands be busy at all time.
It's like the perfect way tochannel my ADHD and OCD and that
(27:07):
is that Girl Knits.
So if you want some ideas forwhat to make or what new hobby
to start up, you can find me onInstagram at that Girl Knits
Nice.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
We have had a blast chatting with you and getting to
know you guys and toslaycations.
Yes, thank you guys.
It's been a blast.
I had such a great time justhearing your story and talking a
little bit about what we do.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Absolutely, hey guys.
So we covered everything fromchilling true crime stories and
the emotional tool ofstorytelling for this particular
type of content, and Kim gaveus an amazing, fascinating
behind the scenes.
Look at the Slaycation podcast.
In this particular episode wedid talk about a few different
(28:02):
Slaycation episodes, so number47, welcome to the Coast of
Crime, as well as episode 57, onthe Trail of Murder, shannon
Doerr part one, and then 58 waspart two.
So if you're interested inlistening to any of those
episodes in detail, you can gofor the full episodes on
(28:23):
Slaycation podcast.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yes, and if you love a mix of travel and true crime,
make sure you subscribe toSlaycation wherever you listen
to your podcast.
Yeah, big thanks to Kim forjoining us.
We absolutely loved having her,had a great time chatting with
her.
She was so much fun and, asalways, don't forget to follow
Suitcase Divas, so you nevermiss an episode.
So thanks, chatting with you.
She was so much fun and, asalways, don't forget to follow
suitcase divas, so you nevermiss an episode.
So thanks for joining us thisweek, guys.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah, we'll see you next time.
Hey guys, so welcome back travelers.
If you joined us last week, youknow that we had an amazing
chilling conversation with Kim,the host of Slaycation, and we
dove into some of the mostfascinating crazy crime true
travel, true crime I should sayLet me not get tongue twisted
here, but there were some prettycrazy stories and it got us to
(00:40):
asking the bigger question howdoes Kim handle the emotional
weight of the levity of thesetrue crime stories?
Like cause, a lot of that shithappens and that's hard to cover
such dark topics.
You know on the daily, you seewhat I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Right, and so today we're actually picking up where
we left off with Kim, and she isback to share how she processes
that, that heavy side of truecrime storytelling.
So if you've ever wondered howsomeone who's reporting on this,
who's telling these stories,handles that, kim's going to
answer that question for us intoday's episode.
We're also going to dive into afew more of the stories that
(01:21):
she's covered.
So make sure you grab yourpassport and maybe a flashlight
and let's jump right into parttwo with Kim.
From Slaycation and a lot ofthese episodes bring up a lot of
emotions the anger, the sadness, the frustration, the what
would I do?
Like, what if that were me?
How would I handle that?
What if that?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
were my feeling.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
How do you balance that emotion for yourself, like
as you're doing this, andkeeping from getting overwhelmed
or bogged down by thoseemotions?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Well, you know, I think a lot of it is just sort
of again kind of role keeping inthe back of my head, like what
is the message in this episode?
What is the overall message?
The overall message, I think,like even the McGreevy case, the
(02:11):
message is there before thegrace of God go, I we never know
until we are there.
There's not one parent that hasbeen worn down by their kid to
a stub and just gave in.
We've all been.
Yep, sure have, um, and if yousay that you haven't and that
you would never good for you,but that's because they haven't
(02:33):
been tested yet.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Never say never Cause , that's just saying hold my cup
.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Exactly, exactly, exactly, um, exactly, exactly,
(03:08):
exactly, you know.
So I think that it's it's kindof like it sort of keeps me
centered, that you know, Ialways feel like you know.
There was another case, the AmyFitzpatrick case where she went
to a friend's for New Year's.
Her family had moved to Spain,they were expats from Ireland
and that case haunts me becausethat child was so severely
(03:29):
neglected that this case pissedme the fuck off, because when I
was hearing her mom ininterviews and yes, I'm going to
say it, I was judging her.
I was judging her because I'mof the belief nobody is forcing
you to have kids.
Don't have kids.
It's that simple you don't wantto parent, because here's the
(03:51):
thing.
You don't get to go yeah youknow what?
I'm had no clue that her kid wasmissing and Was just, you know,
was more centered on theboyfriend.
(04:13):
Mm, hmm, Even though herdaughter did not, like the
boyfriend, had issues with theboyfriend, it was still about
the boyfriend, Right, and I wasjust.
So the message in that was youknow, I was.
You know, center your kids.
You know, this kid was 13 yearsold.
(04:35):
14 years old Maybe.
Yeah, I think she was actually15.
Sorry, but the thing is it'slike that's the time when you
need to really be centering yourkids, Like, yeah, I get it.
You know, I'm not saying youshouldn't have a man or a
partner.
Good for you, I think that'shealthy to do that.
But I think that the message isyou know, you have a
(04:57):
responsibility.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, and you don't abandon your kids to be with
some dude.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Exactly, it's your responsibility to be present.
And look, I almost didn't havekids because I was like, yeah, I
don't know if I can do that.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
You know.
But so I really feel likethat's a very important you know
again, and I always think likethis child would not be missing
if her mom, mom was born Right.
You know, do you find?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
yourself.
Oh sorry, Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
No, no, no.
I but I was just saying, yeah,you know, like her mom just up
and took them to Spain to livewith her and her boyfriend and,
you know, took her away from herfamily and her father and I,
you know it's.
It was just like seriously,yeah, I was pissed.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
As you were going through that.
I was curious, cause do youfind yourself like when you're
doing your research and oryou're reading, or you're seeing
those interviews, knowing aheadof time, before you even get to
the results or get to the nextstep?
You can start to read and get afeel for the bigger picture,
and not necessarily the whodunit, but you can see kind of like I
(06:08):
don't want to say right out,like, oh, I can see that video,
I saw that interview.
This is suspect.
This is number one for me.
This is who I think isresponsible.
Do you find yourself doing thatbefore you get to the results
of the case?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I you know there are yeah, I mean there.
There are certainly those timeswhen you come across
information that makes it like,oh, that seems to shine the make
, sharpen the lens and the focuson that person.
But I think also the otherthing is is that I've come to
really have this sort ofopenness like don't be surprised
(06:45):
.
You know, there are many caseswhere we would that we have
looked at and was like you know,in a court of law this would
not fly, but they did that shit.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You know what I mean.
They did that shit Like, if youknow, following the letter of
the law, would we be able toconvict?
no, but I really feel like hedid that shit right, you know,
yeah exactly interesting andthen there are cases where you
know, like we had covered a case, um, it was the sh Shenandoah
(07:23):
murders of two women, lollyWinans and Julie Williams, and
they were a couple, they werecamping and they were murdered
and this had happened in 96.
So over the course of the years, you know, they had somebody
(07:44):
that they had even arrested forthe crime and they had, you know
him.
They was locked in on thisperson and it wasn't like this
person, you know, was a gooddude, but there were, there was
like oh, but you know he may nothave, like maybe we need to,
(08:08):
and it was just.
It was just interesting that asI researched and looked at what
was going on, that so manypeople could have been capable,
if not responsible for theirmurders, like suspects out of
the wazoo, I was like so manyshitty people and the common
(08:34):
denominator, of course, isthey're all men and I was like
men.
It's men, men, that's theproblem.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Well, we have conversations about that on the
daily, but that's a differenttopic for another exactly, um,
but going back, so so I listen,I do believe that you were some
kind of a detective orinvestigator in your past life.
So if you could go on to anylocation episode and try to
(09:01):
solve the mystery where, or youknow if you had the opportunity,
which one would you go to?
And you feel like you couldsolve that murder, either
whether it was unresolved orwhether it was resolved.
You were like I could have donethis so much quicker or I would
have been able to solve thisbecause you guys dropped the
ball.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
That's interesting, cause there's a few cases, cases
and I guess, since we'retalking about it, I guess the
Max McGreevy case I would havethought, I don't know that I
necessarily would have solved itper se, but I would have
(09:44):
carried out a different.
I would unsatisfied with theresults.
They wouldn't do the.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
DNA.
They wouldn't do this Like, sowe.
I listened to that one andNatalie Holloway was the very
next year and voila, she'smissing too.
So Aruba has some problem withif somebody goes missing.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I love.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Aruba.
It's very ambient, but maybedon't send your teenager there.
So, I mean, I feel like maybeif you had more money or maybe
if you had like I don't knowwhat it takes to fly in, they
did fly in a PI for Natalie'scase, For Max's case.
I don't think they did.
She just kind of conceded andwent home.
But maybe she didn't have themeans to fly in a.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
PI.
Well, look, that's alwayssomething that we have to look
at, Like there's.
You know, a lot of people don'thave the means.
She did consult a detective whodid look at the case.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And that was when she came back to the States,
correct?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yes, now you know, the thing is is that he was
actually instrumental in helpingget the FBI involved, but then
the FBI after 9-11, it all justkind of fell to the wayside.
And I think the important thingis it's like they always talk
about, which I get it makessense to me Investigators always
(11:18):
talk about the first 48.
So you need that first 48 iscrucial and I will always
believe that, had those men beensequestered and separated, and
Because their stories weren'tadding up at all Right.
(11:38):
Right, because if you separatethe two of them and you ask them
questions, ok, you could seewhether those stories align.
And when those stories are notaligning, you could start to
chip away at those lies and getcloser and closer to what the
actual story is.
I mean, you're never going toknow what exactly happened,
(12:00):
right, but you'll get sort ofyou know, a closer, you know
understanding to what occurred,and I think that that was a
missed opportunity.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Agreed Opportunity, you know, and with the time that
has passed it is, it's it, itwas just, and then it got
completely swallowed up by thenatalie holloway case oh, and
that didn't help bring like, hey, you would think sometimes that
(12:36):
those would be.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Let's think about this.
Is a pattern, right?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
perhaps because it was pretty, that was pretty
obvious that that vander slootguy did it, but they didn't.
They didn't charge him, oh no,right away at all.
It was like a year or two later.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
It was crazy like that wasn't until he actually
killed someone somebody else.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
So have you found, and in looking at cases,
especially outside the states,and stuff the differences in the
the way they handle law and theway that they handle crimes,
the way they handle suspects,victims, like, is there a
frustration, is theresimilarities between the way
they do it outside of the states?
And or how did how do younavigate that part of like well,
(13:23):
balancing what you know, how wehandle things in the states
versus how they're handling it?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well, you know, it's interesting because I think, at
the end of the day, a lot of itreally just comes down to what
is good, solid investigativeskills and what is not.
And I think, like you can have,you know, two different systems
, but the execution if you havea good execution, it could be,
(13:52):
you know, it could yield results.
You know, like in Aruba or inlike a lot of these countries,
they do what is called like a umreconstruction, like they
reconstruct the crime scene.
They have the person sort of actout or play out you know the,
the crime I mean, and I don'tknow how useful that is, but I
(14:15):
would imagine that there is apsychology behind that yeah yeah
, you know, um, but I do youknow think that, uh, if you know
that, if certain things aredone, especially right out the
gate gate could help withgetting these kinds with getting
(14:41):
answers, yeah you findconsistency in like, as we can
say, just bringing up the arubacase, for instance that that's
how they consistently handle.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
One of the things I liked that you guys talk about
and have mentioned, andespecially like your show notes
and stuff, is you don't when,when you're doing a location,
you don't generalize.
Locations is a bad area, yougive information about.
This is the what to expect ofin that area, because there's
there, unfortunately, there'scrime everywhere.
There's negative.
(15:11):
And I think you do a really goodjob of not making it sound like
don't go here, right, are youfinding consistency in the
repeat locations that you'veseen, not necessarily just in
your podcast, but in your truecrime journey all over, you know
?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Right, yeah, well, I will say that you know it's.
You know there's consistency inthat there's always going to,
no matter what, no matter where,there's always going to be some
brand of crazy.
Like you just there's not.
You know there's no gettingaround that.
(15:48):
You know there's always goingto be some danger that lurks,
just because of the nature ofhuman beings, and where there's
human beings there's going to besome freaky shit going.
Yes, we're not getting aroundthat, we're just not.
(16:11):
So.
A lot of it really isn't theplace in as much as the people
in that place.
Right, and you have to look atthe people that you are around,
right, you know it's like youwould think that you know the
McCreevy family would be safe ina nice resort and that why
(16:35):
should they be alarmed, whyshould they have their guard up
when they're just makingfriendly chit chat with a fellow
guest?
Right, I wouldn't think, likeyou know, this person could have
a deep seated history of somemajor shady shit.
Like you're not thinking likethat, you know Right.
So it's almost like it almostdoesn't really matter where you
(16:57):
are, you know, yeah, like italmost doesn't really matter
where you are, you know.
Um, yeah, it just sort ofdrives home the point that no
matter where you are, no matterhow you you perceive the safety
of that particular place, youstill have to have your guard up
yeah, right, and trust your gut.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
like for that farm mama that was worn down, like
she, like if she had it'sdoubtful that anybody at that
point you know what they've beenthrough and she was just trying
to throw the kid a bone, youknow, and let him have a good
time.
But also she did have that gutinstinct Like I don't think I
should let him go.
I really don't think I shouldlet him go.
(17:35):
Like for me.
My takeaway from that is trustyour gut.
Be the fucking bitchy mom,denise, and I feel, like if you
feel like something is wrong,then you should trust that
instinct Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Exactly, but we do get there as moms and like, okay
, you, we've been here for a fewdays.
I felt so sad about that.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
For me, that's that one.
I haven't listened to all ofthem, but for me that was the
hardest one to take away becauseshe didn't do anything wrong.
She was just trying to have agood time on vacation and she
was totally.
They were totally poached they.
They found them and they knewthey had a plan of action and
they had a history that shootshow that they were capable of
(18:20):
this and and that's just sounfortunate for that family.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So just taking a little bit of a different spin,
so you so you work with yourhusband, adam, and you work with
Jerry Do you guys ever have anychallenges of like, well, you
know, working with your husbandor with your bestie, like is
there any episodes that havecome up where you're really not
on the same page, or one thinkshe could have done it or you
think he couldn't have, or howdoes that work with spending so
(18:48):
much time with your significantother and and working on the
podcast?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
That's a lot of time, denise, and I've learned that
it's a lot of time that goesinto recording a podcast, so we
feel like we're a married couple, we call it.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
That's what it does, you know, I think, you know, I,
I'm I feel very fortunate inthat we are very much in sync
and just by being in sync andjust by being in sync, we're
sensitive to each other.
And I think that isinstrumental, because you're not
(19:24):
going to agree on everything.
You're going to have differentideas, you're going to have
different thoughts, you're goingto have, you know, you know,
adam is sort of the audienceproxy, so he's listening to me
tell the story.
So, yeah, there have been timeswhen he's like, oh, I, you know
(19:45):
, I'm not getting it, or I, youknow, and I'm like, fuck you,
you're not listening.
Yes, but you know, as somebodythat I recognize, you know, like
somebody that I recognize, youknow, like, as as the audience
proxy, you know, I always, and Ithink we both kind of take the
(20:05):
attitude of, ok, let's take astep back and let me just try to
understand where you're comingfrom.
And I think that has beenhelpful for us because, at the
end of the day, what we want todo is we want to make a great
show, we want our show toresonate with our audience, we
want, um, our takeaways to be,you know, helpful.
(20:30):
And, given that.
That's all of our primary goal.
We center that and try not tolet our own little bitchiness,
because that can happen, oh yeah.
So you have to kind of like allright, let me just take a step
(20:50):
back.
All right, where you know.
And so I think that we've kindof done really well with that.
I think Adam too, you know, areyou know, us being in a
relationship, having, you know,raised a kid, which you know I
always joke like he and I havecompletely different parenting
(21:13):
styles.
And you know, given that it waslike never, like we was not
that couple, it was like, oh myGod, we're going to like, oh my
god, we're gonna have babies andwe're gonna.
We never really discussed likewell, what are we going to do?
And come to find out completelydifferent, yes, completely
different.
That was like on the jobtraining, like yeah, so I think
(21:33):
like having been able tonavigate those challenges has
really helped us in sort oflooking at the big picture.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
And sort of you know, recognizing that whatever is
going on within us personallyand you know like, yes, maybe we
will, that needs to be dealtwith.
But right now, let's just whatis the big picture, how do we
address that?
And if I didn't like hisattitude, we'll have a
conversation about that.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, because we know who wears the pants in this
relationship exactly, did youguys have the same vision for
the podcast when you sat down tostart recording, or did it grow
?
Denise and I had one visionwhere we were sort of
professional and then it slowlyturned into this is not us,
we're more chill, we're morelaid back.
Let's break out the moment andI love, we love your vibe, we
(22:24):
love you guys.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And we like that.
You're a little bit sweary likeme.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yes, we really tried not to swear in the beginning
and bleep it out or cut it out,and we're like this is so not us
, not us.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
So we're just decided to embrace us and us, not us.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
So we just decided to embrace us, and if people don't
like swear and then don'tfucking listen to us.
That's yeah, no, but I thinkthat that's the best advice
really be who you are.
Yeah, and you know, it'sactually funny my daughter went
to um, uh, she went to cathCatholic school and the patron
saint of the school was FrancisDeSales and and this, there was
(23:05):
this saying that was all overthe school.
It was you know, be yourself.
It sort of is be yourself andbe it well, which you know, I, I
think you know is is a goodthing to live by.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I mean, unless you're a shitty person and then they
get to be an episode, exactly.
But I think that, like, I takeit as a call to really work, to
being our best selves.
You know, and I think, like youknow, doing the podcast is a
journey and it's a personaljourney, because you're each
(23:45):
having the journey together butseparately, and you're kind of
coming together to go, yeah,this isn't working.
This works better for us.
We enjoy being authenticallyourselves and this is a place
where I believe we can do that.
(24:07):
And I agree because I feel like.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
We came to that as well.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Like we're not journalists and there are plenty
of true crime podcasts thatwill give you that journal deep
dive, researched from thatinvestigative, you know,
forensic, you know dry, you know, and just recognizing like
we're not for everybody, but wedon't have to be just like you
(24:33):
guys.
Yes, and that's okay, there'ssomething out there for everyone
.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's what makes it takes allkinds to make the world.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yes, so do you have any upcoming projects or
exciting things that we shouldtell our listeners to be on the
lookout for?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Well, you know, I think I would just say just give
our podcast a listen.
You know, I just give ourpodcast a listen.
(25:18):
I do some bonus content where Italk about different things.
A lot of it is maybeinformation that didn't make it
into the original episode, orupdates.
Sometimes, you know, like Ihave a case of a Valentine's Day
case that I'm going to talkabout.
So I would just you know, ifyou feel like you want to laugh,
if you feel like you want tolearn, if you feel like you want
to, just, you know, journeythrough the dark psyches of our
(25:39):
crazy fellow human beings, youknow, come, come, one and all.
Yeah, we, you know it's hardtopics, but we have a good time
and I think that we put outsomething that is useful and
(25:59):
important because feel, in asense, there's something special
about the people in the storynot being forgotten.
Right, absolutely yep.
So where?
Speaker 1 (26:11):
can our listeners find Slaycation on your um and
go ahead and follow you like?
What formats?
What are you on?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
well, we are on facebook, which is kind of where
most of our um slay caters go,so it's a slay caters only.
Um, we have that page andplease come.
And we have uh slaycation,which is also another facebook,
it's more broad.
We have Slaycation WTF onInstagram, right On Instagram,
(26:46):
and I actually have a you knowcause.
I'm a rabid knitter, crocheter,crafter, like I have to have my
hands be busy at all time.
It's like the perfect way tochannel my ADHD and OCD and that
(27:07):
is that Girl Knits.
So if you want some ideas forwhat to make or what new hobby
to start up, you can find me onInstagram at that Girl Knits
Nice.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
We have had a blast chatting with you and getting to
know you guys and toslaycations.
Yes, thank you guys.
It's been a blast.
I had such a great time justhearing your story and talking a
little bit about what we do.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Absolutely, hey guys.
So we covered everything fromchilling true crime stories and
the emotional tool ofstorytelling for this particular
type of content, and Kim gaveus an amazing, fascinating
behind the scenes.
Look at the Slaycation podcast.
In this particular episode wedid talk about a few different
(28:02):
Slaycation episodes, so number47, welcome to the Coast of
Crime, as well as episode 57, onthe Trail of Murder, shannon
Doerr part one, and then 58 waspart two.
So if you're interested inlistening to any of those
episodes in detail, you can gofor the full episodes on
(28:23):
Slaycation podcast.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yes, and if you love a mix of travel and true crime,
make sure you subscribe toSlaycation wherever you listen
to your podcast.
Yeah, big thanks to Kim forjoining us.
We absolutely loved having her,had a great time chatting with
her.
She was so much fun and, asalways, don't forget to follow
Suitcase Divas, so you nevermiss an episode.
So thanks, chatting with you.
She was so much fun and, asalways, don't forget to follow
suitcase divas, so you nevermiss an episode.
So thanks for joining us thisweek, guys.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah, we'll see you next time.
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