August 15, 2025 • 38 mins
Alfie Kohn’s Unconditional Parenting flips traditional discipline on its head. Instead of rewards, punishments, or praise-as-control, Kohn argues for a radical shift: Parenting that doesn’t hinge on conditions.
He explores how our well-meaning tactics (like timeouts or gold stars) can erode trust and create performance-focused kids rather than self-motivated, emotionally secure humans.
The book blends developmental psychology, case studies, and biting critiques of mainstream methods, all pointing to a clear message: Children thrive when they feel truly accepted, especially when they mess up.
If you’ve ever wondered whether “being tough” builds character, this episode might challenge everything you’ve been told. Tune in for a deep dive into parenting that prioritises connection over compliance.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the Summary State podcast.
Great to be diving in again. Absolutely.
Today we're tackling a really transformative book.
It challenges pretty much everything we thought we knew
about raising kids. Yeah, it's a big one.
We're talking about Alfie Cone'sunconditional parenting, moving
from rewards and punishments to love and reason.
(00:20):
Love and reason, quite the title.
It is now, before we even crack open the covers, let's let's set
the stage a bit. If you've ever found yourself
just utterly exhausted, clueless, maybe even having
those unspoken dark moments as aparent, Oh, I.
Think everyone's been there? Right.
Wondering if serving like the wrong shape of pasta could
(00:40):
genuinely lead to neighbor calling screams?
Well, you're definitely not alone.
The pasta shapes too real. The author himself admits you
know parenting is not for wimps.My own experience, it's a
constant test of your capacity to deal with disorder
unpredictability. A test you can't study for.
Exactly, no Cheat Sheets. When I want to say something
(01:01):
isn't difficult, I usually just say hey at least it's not
parenting. That's such a relatable starting
point, and the author dives right into that raw, messy
reality, doesn't he? He really does.
And then he contrasts it with this like pervasive societal
expectation. He highlights how faced with all
this difficulty, we're often tempted to just focus on getting
(01:24):
short term obedience. Yeah, just get through the
moment. Think.
About that moment on a plane, you know, hearing someone
congratulate parents because their child was so good.
Oh yeah, so well behaved. The con points out good often
just means quiet, right? Or maybe not a pain in the butt.
To me, it's not really about anything deeper.
You're right, it's rarely about the child being caring or
(01:45):
creative or curious. It's just well behaved in that
very narrow, kind of superficialset.
So our mission for this deep dive is to really unpack that
foundational idea, challenge some widely accepted practices
that honestly maybe don't serve our long term goals.
And explore a whole new way of thinking.
Exactly about what truly matterswhen we're guiding our children
(02:08):
to become, you know, thoughtful,caring, responsible people.
It's about building humans, not just managing behaviors.
Yeah, big difference. OK, so let's really unpack this
core idea from the book, this stark difference between what we
think we want from our kids in the heat of the.
Moment versus our deepest long term hopes for them, right?
(02:30):
Cone asks parents in his workshops about their long term
goals and the answers? They're remarkably consistent
all over the country. What kind of things come up you?
Know happy, balanced, independent, fulfilled,
productive, self reliant, responsible, kind, thoughtful,
loving, inquisitive, confident, pretty much every good quality
(02:51):
you could wish for, right? It's a great list.
It makes you think doesn't totally, because it immediately
makes you wonder, are our everyday parenting practices
like actually consistent with what we really want?
Are those supermarket meltdowns and how we handle them actually
helping a child become happy andindependent?
Or are there maybe making those outcomes less likely?
Yeah. Are we undermining our own
goals? Yeah, the author suggests this
(03:12):
thought experiment. Imagine overhearing 2 parents
talking about your kid at a birthday party.
OK, what would give you the mostpleasure to hear them say?
My guess in Cohn's hope is it wouldn't be.
Boy, that child does everything he's told and you never hear a
peep out of them. Absolutely not.
No parent really dreams of raising a perfectly compliant
(03:33):
little robot. And yet for generations, so many
parenting books, the general conversation, it's all focused
on how to get children to complyright?
How to make them behave? Or even train them like pets.
Yeah, we've see titles like Parents in Charge or Laying Down
the law. It's all about control, even if
the methods have shifted, maybe from spanking to timeouts or
(03:55):
rewards. The underlying goal is still
control. It's like a how to guide for
turning your child into AI don'tknow a well oiled obedience
machine without much thought forwhat makes them tick inside what
builds their character. Which brings us to the
fundamental distinction the author makes conditional
parenting versus unconditional parenting.
OK, the core divide. Let's start with a classic
(04:16):
scenario from the book involves a child named Abigail.
Imagine your child throws a fit,wakes the baby, refuses a bath.
Standard stuff. Been there, done that.
If you're operating from a conditional mindset, you might
think, OK, no snuggles, no storytonight.
That's rewarding bad behavior. Right, that's the common logic.
You'd suspend the nice things, explain the consequence, and
(04:39):
feel like, OK, you're back in control.
It feels instinctively right forso many of us, this idea of
boundaries and consequences. It's fascinating how deep that
runs, isn't it? This conditional approach, it's
psychologically rooted in a behaviorism, Skinner and all.
That. Exactly, BF Skinner.
In that view, only observable, measurable behaviors really
matter. If you can't see a desire or a
(05:01):
fear, you just focus on what people do.
What you can measure? Right.
The underlying assumption is that all behavior is based on
simple cause and effect, rewardsor punishments.
So a child sharing a dessert that's purely because it led to
good feelings or praise in the past?
It's like people are just intricate machines.
Kind of responding to external inputs like a vending machine.
(05:24):
Put in the right coin reward or punishment and you get the
desired product, the behavior. And this behaviorist lens, the
author argues, leads to some truly, well, bizarre practices.
Like what? Take compulsory apologies,
forcing kids to say sorry when they're clearly, obviously not
sorry at all. Oh.
Yeah, the forced apology. Cone asks.
(05:45):
Do parents assume that making children speak this sentence
will magically produce in them the feeling of being sorry?
Or worse, do they not even care if the kids actually sorry?
Because sincerity is irrelevant.Just get the words out.
Exactly, he warns. This trains children to say
things they don't mean. That is to lie.
It's like house training a puppyto sit, not nurturing a human
(06:05):
being. That's a sharp comparison, He.
Even half jokes, and I love this.
The value of a parenting book isinversely proportional to the
number of times it contains the word behavior.
That's brilliant. It really hits home how he views
that whole mechanistic approach.Doesn't it?
It changes your perspective. It really does, if we broaden
our view. The unconditional approach looks
at the child so differently. It asks us to consider that a
(06:29):
child's actions are often just the outward expression.
Of something deeper inside. Right.
Inner feelings, thoughts, needs,maybe unexpressed frustrations.
Children aren't inherently malicious.
They're communicating that something is wrong.
You know, in the only way they know how.
So it's signal not just bad behavior.
It's fundamentally a vote of confidence in children.
(06:50):
It challenges that assumption that they'll just take advantage
of affection or always want to act badly.
It shifts the focus. From just changing the visible
action to understanding the invisible reasons behind it.
Like an iceberg, right? You see the tip, but you need to
understand what's going on beneath the surface.
So back to that Abigail scenario.
Yeah, the fit. The bath refusal.
(07:11):
The unconditional parent wouldn't withhold snuggles or
story time. Why?
Because the lesson is far more likely to stick if the child
knows your love is absolute. It's not dimmed by their
momentary actions. The love isn't conditional on
the behavior. Right then, once the storm
passes, you reflect together what happened, what was
(07:31):
frustrating, what could we do differently next time.
It's about the child who engagesin the behavior, not just the
behavior itself. Yeah.
It's recognizing that love isn'ta reward to be earned, but this
foundational, secure base that actually allows for growth and
genuine learning. That's a huge shift.
OK, buckle up. We're going to dive into two
(07:52):
incredibly popular modern discipline techniques that the
book argues are actually quite damaging.
All right. Where are we starting?
First, let's talk about love withdrawal.
This includes things like timeouts or deliberately
ignoring a child. OK, timeouts.
Very common. Very common, often presented as
this gentler alternative to spanking, right?
(08:14):
But the author peels back those layers, reveals a very different
picture. It's particularly insightful, I
think, to look at the origin of the term timeout.
Where did it come from? It's actually an abbreviation
for Timeout from Positive Reinforcement.
And where did it come from? Straight out of the animal
behavior labs. Seriously, animals.
Yeah, BF Skinner and his followers developed it to train
(08:34):
pigeons and chimpanzees to get them to Peck certain keys or
stop doing something annoying. Pigeons and chimps.
Within a few years, the author reveals this technique was
applied to retarded institutionalized subjects.
That was the term used then before being just
indiscriminately applied to all children.
Wow. So we're talking about a
technique that literally startedwith trying to stop a chimpanzee
(08:57):
from doing something by making its world temporarily boring and
unrewarding. That's eye opening.
Yeah, a technique that started with controlling animal
behavior. It really begs the question,
does it make any sense to raise our kids these complex emotional
thinking beings based on a modelused for birds and rodents?
Spare a question. Cohen asserts that time out,
(09:18):
like all punishments, just stayson the surface.
It's designed purely to make an Organism act or stop acting in a
particular. Way right.
It's like trying to fix a leaky faucet by just putting a bucket
under it. Yeah, instead of finding out
what's wrong with the pipes, you're just addressing the
symptom, not the root cause. And that brings up the point
about effectiveness. Yes, love withdrawal can work to
(09:39):
change behavior in the short term.
A kid might stop hitting their sibling during a timeout.
Sure, it might stop the immediate behavior.
But the cost is enormous. Research consistently shows it
instills deep anxiety about possible loss of parental love,
which can be more emotionally damaging than even a spanking.
That makes sense. Imagine being a kid, already
(10:00):
feeling overwhelmed, and then being cut off from your main
source of security. It's terrifying.
A study of 7th graders even linked love withdrawal to a
lower level form of morality where kids just rigidly apply
rules to avoid punishment. Rather than genuinely
considering context or others needs.
Exactly. They learn to do exactly what
they're told just to avoid losing love, not because they
(10:22):
understand why it's the right thing to do.
They're just following a script to avoid emotional abandonment,
like a tiny, scared actor performing for an audience.
OK, so if love withdrawal is that unsettling, wait until we
talk about its flip side, positive reinforcement,
especially praise. The carrot.
Yeah, the carrot. The author compares it to the
carrot and stick philosophy that's absolutely everywhere.
(10:45):
Workplaces, classrooms, families.
This pervasive idea that if you want someone to do something,
you either dangle a carrot, a reward, or wield a stick, a
punishment. And with kids, praise is often
seen as the ultimate universallygood carrot, right?
Like you can't go wrong with praise.
But what's genuinely surprising here is that extensive research
(11:07):
consistently shows rewards are not only ineffective long term,
but often counterproductive. How so counterproductive the
book? Highlights Study after study,
children rewarded for being nicebecome less likely to think of
themselves as nice people. Wait, why?
That seems backward. Because they attribute their
behavior to the external reward.So when the reward stops, the
(11:28):
helpfulness often stops. Too.
Oh, OK. It wasn't the being nice, it was
the reward making them act nice.Exactly.
Cone uses a brilliant analogy. Offer a reward for drinking an
unfamiliar beverage. Kids will like it less next week
than those who drank it. Without a reward interest.
Or pay kids to solve a puzzle. They'll stop playing with it,
but once the payment stops, while the unpaid kids keep going
(11:50):
just for the joy of it. It's like paying someone to eat
their favorite food. Suddenly it feels like work, not
pleasure. The intrinsic joy gets sucked
right out. That's nicely.
And this extends to praise too, like good sharing or I'm so
proud of you for helping. Yep, the book argues, it can
actually make kids less interested in sharing or helping
out of genuine desire. The action becomes just a means
(12:13):
to an end. Just to get that positive
reaction from an adult, like a performance.
Which brings us to a crucial point the book makes.
Praise isn't just different fromunconditional love.
What is it then? It's the polar opposite.
Wow. Polar opposite.
Explain that. Well, if you connected to the
bigger picture, praise is fundamentally a way of saying
you have to jump through my hoops in order for me to express
(12:35):
support and delight. OK, I see.
Good job. Isn't just a description, it's a
judgement, an evaluation. It can subtly communicate I love
you because you've done well. Which implies.
I don't like you when you don't do such and such.
Cohen shares. A story of a babysitter who just
plainly stated good behavior gets my attention.
Yikes, red flag. Big time.
(12:55):
She made love and attention transactional, like this little
emotional accounting system where kids constantly have to
earn their worth. Also love the bumper sticker
example he shares someone had. I'm proud of my child who was
student of the month on their car.
Oh, right. And the story of the mother who
just cut it down to I'm proud ofmy child, full stop.
(13:17):
That really resonates. It's such a powerful, simple act
of resisting conditional parenting.
It is, and the book warns, the more we praise, the more
insecure children can actually become.
It leads to this vicious circle where they need more prey.
Which further undermines their self esteem and can lead to
helplessness. It's a self feeding loop that
just drained their intrinsic motivation, leaves them
(13:38):
constantly looking outside themselves for validation.
Which leads us directly to what the book calls the self esteem
controversy. Yes, the self esteem movement.
For decades we've heard a high self esteem is just universally
good. But the author argues it's not
about how much self esteem someone has.
What is it about then? It's about what kind.
(13:59):
The real problem isn't necessarily low self esteem.
I don't feel very good about myself.
It's contingent self esteem, which means I feel good about
myself only when. Only when I succeed or get
approval. Exactly.
It's the sort of self esteem that fluctuates wildly with
every success or failure. Like a stock market ticker
(14:20):
reacting to every bit of news, your worth is constantly on the
line. And this is where the plot
thickens, because it connects directly back to conditional
parenting. Well, if you're loved only under
certainly conditions, it's incredibly hard to genuinely
accept yourself. Right, makes sense.
This creates what Cone calls a false self.
The child learns to pretend to be the kind of person their
(14:41):
parents will love, constantly performing for approval.
That sounds exhausting and sad. It is, and this false self is
often associated with depression, hopelessness, and a
profound loss of touch with one's true identity.
Imagine that, spending your whole life as an impersonator of
yourself. Constantly performing, never
knowing who you are when the spotlights off.
(15:03):
It's a truly chilling thought. Yeah.
Now let's talk about this pervasive issue of too much
control. OK?
The author shares some. Really cringeworthy
observations. Parents harshly reprimanding
toddlers for throwing a teddy bear when no one else is even
around. Right.
Why? Mothers falsely claiming signs
prohibit splashing in a fountain, hissing at a child for
(15:25):
a happy whoop at the playground,or just the constant nagging at
dinner, turning family meals into an escape mission.
It's like kids are walking on egg shells constantly under
surveillance even for the most normal kids stuff.
Exactly, That's a critical point.
The pervasive problem in our society isn't actually
permissiveness, it's the fear ofpermissiveness.
We're so worried about spoiling kids.
(15:46):
That we often end up over controlling them, sometimes to
an absurd degree. The author cites the
psychologist Haim Jannat asking us to compare how we'd react if
an adult friend forgot their umbrella versus how we might
berate a child for the same thing.
Few of us, Jannat says, would think of derating another adult
in the tone that is routinely used with kids.
(16:09):
That's a stark, uncomfortable reminder.
The double standards we apply without even thinking treating
kids is somehow lesser. It's true, and this over control
isn't just specific methods, it's a fundamental mindset.
Authoritarian parent. Exactly.
Expecting absolute obedience, Offering no explanations.
Believing kids need constant monitoring, that they can't be
trusted. And here's the kicker.
(16:30):
The paradox The parents most concerned about controlling
their kids often end up having the least genuine control over
them. It's like trying to hold sand in
a tightly clenched fist isn't. It the harder you squeeze, the
more it slips through your fingers.
It's counterintuitive, but powerful.
Indeed, studies show that children of warm, respectful
parents who minimize control andoffer reasons are actually more
(16:52):
likely to comply, and willingly.Really, less control leads to
more compliance. It seems so.
There was a classic study. 2 year olds whose parents
accommodated their objections, showing respect for their
autonomy, were the most compliant.
Another study with defiant preschoolers found kids who had
less control during play were more likely to follow
instructions later. If we look at the bigger
(17:14):
picture, autocratic environments, homework,
wherever, they just make people sick, anxious, rebellious.
The kids learn from that. They learn to use power and
anger against others from authoritarian parents and they
might become impetuous hooliganswhen parents backs are turned,
as one mother observed about herhusband's family.
Masters of covert rebellion not genuine with self regulated
(17:35):
people. And that internalized pressure
to be good or work hard just to please parents rather than out
of genuine choice. It leads to short lived
happiness, fluctuating self opinion, guilt, shame.
It also stifles interest and skills.
Children with controlling parents show less interest in
activities, give up more easily,are less creative.
(17:58):
The book argues the goal isn't to be in control, it's to be in
control of helping them gain control over their own lives.
Empowerment, not conformity. Building an internal compass,
not just following someone else's GPS.
Exactly. OK.
So beyond just compliance, many kids are also subjected to just
immense pressure to succeed. The achievement pressure.
(18:20):
The book highlights this press for success that can basically
mortgage a child's present for some future goal, like getting
into a top university. Raising living resumes.
Totally. Every activity, every
achievement, just another bulletpoint.
Kids learn to ask, do we need toknow this for the test instead
of What does this mean? Education becomes a transaction,
not an exploration. And it's particularly concerning
(18:42):
that this pressure isn't limitedto any specific.
Group right now? No, it's everywhere.
The book points out studies showing higher rates of
substance abuse anxiety among wealthy teenagers compared even
to inner city kids, suggesting this immense pressure has its
own heavy toll. Wow.
And when kids are pushed to do better than their peers, it
breeds alienation, aggression, envy, contempt.
(19:05):
Competition, just by its nature makes self esteem conditional
and precarious, win or lose. It turns childhood into a 0 sum
game. Someone else's win feels like
your loss. This is where the human element
really comes through. Why do parents do this?
The author introduces Berg, basking in reflected glory.
(19:26):
It's when parents get this vicarious validation or status
from their kids success. Living through your kids, it's.
Not just healthy pride, it's themy child is smarter than your
child competitive bragging like those bumper stickers.
My child is an honor student at the so and so school.
Right, the child becomes an extension of the parents ego, a
trophy to display. It makes you wonder, is the
decision being made for the child's well-being or for the
(19:49):
parents ego? Like redshirting?
Exactly. Holding a kid back a year before
kindergarten so they're older, maybe more adept.
It's interesting how the strategy flipped over
generations, but the underlying motivation.
Trying to gain an edge in the childhood race.
Stays the same. And the book stresses that
crucial difference between kindsof motivation.
(20:09):
Extrinsic versus intrinsic. Right.
Getting a good grade is extrinsic, external solving a
problem, understanding a story that's intrinsic from within.
And when kids focus too much on grades or external praise?
They tend to lose interest in real learning.
They avoid challenges where theymight not shine immediately.
They think less deeply. Pushing them hard might get
(20:30):
surface results. But at a steep price to their
emotional health, their intrinsic love of learning.
This situation is particularly ominous, Cone says, when love
seems to be contingent upon meeting very high and often
unrealistic standards. That tragic example of Kyle, the
seven-year old tennis star, Oh yeah, felt ashamed when he lost.
His self worth was just tragically tied to not effort or
(20:53):
joy. It's heartbreaking.
Which brings us to that huge question the book asks.
Why do we parent this way? Yeah, why are conditional
control based approaches so popular, so ingrained, despite
all this evidence against them? The author argues we need to
rethink what we think before we can possibly redo what we do.
OK. He breaks it down into 4 main
(21:14):
categories. Shaping our parenting, What we
see and hear, what we believe, what we feel and what we fear.
Like tracing your own parenting DNA?
Kind of. Yeah.
It's a powerful frame and cones.Simple question.
How did my mother get in my larynx?
Yes. That immediately brings us to
the first category, what we see in here.
It's the most obvious explanation, right?
(21:35):
We learn how to parent by watching how we were raised.
We picked up the rules, the expressions.
A general sense of the parents role.
It takes, as he says, sharp thinking and courage to step
back and consciously decide which patterns to keep or
discard. Otherwise you're just following
a script you to right echoing the past without thinking.
And it's astonishing how widespread that influence is,
(21:57):
not just our parents. In laws friends, even
pediatricians who as the author notes, were often taught this
standard behaviorist stuff. Right.
The sheer pervasiveness of the traditional control approach
makes you assume, well, so many parents can't be wrong.
And let's be honest, it's often the easier path, the mindless
path. Working with strategies like
(22:19):
Cone advocates, they demand so much more from us.
More thought, more patience, more emotional energy.
It's like being in a herd. It feels safer, less effort to
just follow the crowd. Even if they're heading
somewhere you don't really want to go.
OK, so then we move to what we believe.
Beliefs about children. The book highlights that many
(22:40):
parents operate from this sort of negative, almost cynical view
of kids. So we will take advantage or
they're inherently bad or lazy. This inherent distrust.
Logically leads to controlling them, the book points out.
It's far more common to ignore the epidemic of punitive
parenting and instead fix it on rare examples of permissiveness.
Right, we crack down on little kids for just being little kids.
(23:00):
Like punishing a three-year old for being dense when they're
just pink 3. It's an interesting projection,
isn't it? Expecting toddler monks?
Yeah, this belief system is often tied to society's deep
embrace of competition. It's like our state religion,
right? Infiltrating work, school, home.
Many discipline books frame parenting as battles and.
(23:22):
The author is unsparing. The moms and dads who need to
win are the ones who do the mostdamage.
Wow. Another belief system, Support
and control, as the book explores, is rooted in certain
religious traditions where deities offer the ultimate in
conditional love. Rewards for obedience.
Punishments for straying. Exactly a cosmic carrot and
(23:43):
stick reflected in how some approach their children, echoing
that same transactional dynamic.And then there's that insidious
problem of either. Thinking the false dichotomy,
yeah. Either you take a hard line and
punish, or you're permissive andlet kids get away with
everything. The book calls this the
Goldilocks Gambit. Authors position their approach
as just right, but it still often leans heavily on control.
(24:04):
Cohn argued use We need to challenge the very premise of
how much to control kids. Explore alternatives to the
whole idea of control itself. It's not just finding a
different tool in the toolbox. It's redesigning the whole
workshop. OK, third category, what we
feel. This is where it gets really
personal, the impact of our own upbringing.
Our own emotional baggage. Right.
(24:25):
Our childhood experiences, especially unmet emotional
needs, maybe past traumas. They can make us emotionally
unavailable to our own children.How so?
Parents who are constantly trying to prove their own worth,
maybe because they felt their value was conditional.
They might be less accepting, more punitive or controlling
with their kids. They might project their own
(24:46):
stuff. Exactly.
They may even attribute negativemotives to children seeing
innocent misbehaviors as deliberate defiance or
manipulation. It's like their own unfulfilled
emotional tanks are so loud theycan't genuinely hear their kids
needs. Misinterpreting innocent actions
is calculated defiance. Ouch.
OK, final category, what we fear?
(25:07):
This one really hits home I think.
It did for me too. We all have fears that subtly or
not so subtly, Dr. our parentinglike the fear of parental
inadequacy. Feeling like you're not good
enough, Yeah. Leading us to blindly follow bad
advice or maybe overcompensate by becoming this rigid parent
with a capital P. Right then there's that primal
(25:28):
fear of losing control, especially when a helpless
infant turns into a strong willed toddler.
Oh yeah, I vividly remember evening with my then three-year
old son, utterly resistant to getting undressed for bed.
The Bedtime Battle classic. My own fear of losing control
led to an hour of tears, his andmine, until I finally realized I
(25:49):
was being just as irrational as he was, stubbornly trying to win
a battle against a tiny, tired person.
We both lost. The relationship suffered.
That's such a powerful, honest anecdote.
It really highlights how much ofwhat we do is driven by fear of
being judged by them. Friends, relatives, strangers.
Right. They also gives the example of
prompting a baby to say thank you to an adult.
(26:09):
Is it for the baby's benefit? Often it's to show other adults
that you know how to raise polite kids.
This fear makes us more coercivein public, performing our
parenting for an unseen audience.
Exhausting. Then there's fear for kids
safety, which can morph into stifling overprotection,
stripping kids of decision making and the fear of babying
(26:30):
them or them being left behind in the competitive race.
Leading to those unproductive pressures.
It's a relentless external gaze that pushes parents into often
counterproductive behaviors. It's truly a vicious cycle, but
the book emphasizes truly great parents are willing to bravely
confront these troubling questions.
And to say I want to treat my children the way I wish I had
(26:53):
been treated. It's about breaking free from
that inherited, often damaging script, consciously writing your
own more compassionate, more effective one.
That's the ultimate goal, a fundamental shift in thinking,
moving from how do I get my child to do what I say to what
does my child need and how can Imeet those needs?
The book lays out 13 principles,but let's highlight some key
(27:14):
ones that truly transform parenting from doing to a child,
working with them, moving from overseer to copilot.
Perfect way to put it. So let's dive into a few of
these crucial principles. What's the very first
foundational step? Well, the first is to be
introspective and honest. Absolutely foundational.
Understand yourself first. Exactly.
(27:35):
You have to understand your own motives, your needs, your
experiences, what makes you angry and why.
It's self-awareness, not self criticism.
So when your kid pushes your buttons.
Pause. Ask yourself, am I reacting to
my child's behavior right now, or am I reacting to my own
triggered frustration? Maybe a feeling of disrespect
from my own past. It's like turning the flashlight
(27:57):
on yourself before you shine it on your child, understanding
your own emotional landscape totally.
So once we understand ourselves a bit better, what's next in our
daily interactions? The author suggests we then
reconsider your requests. Before you even try to enforce
compliance, ask yourself, is what I'm demanding truly
reasonable or necessary? Maybe the problem isn't the kid.
Maybe the problem is the demand self, for example, battling over
(28:21):
a specific outfit for a casual day.
Maybe it's just not worth the fight.
Perhaps they're not being defiant.
Maybe your request is just irrelevant to any real long term
goal. It challenges us to pick our
battles wisely and sometimes just drop them.
Which is a game changer for daily sanity.
It really is, and it forces us to zoom out, doesn't it?
(28:43):
Which leads perfectly into the next principle.
Keep your eye on long term goals.
Oh, get bogged down in the dailyminutiae, right?
Remember those big, beautiful long term goals?
Happy, responsible, kind adults.A strong, loving relationship
isn't just useful to get compliance, it's an end in
itself. Are you really willing to
sacrifice that deep trust over, say, a brand of cereal or a sock
(29:07):
choice? Because in the grand scheme,
those things truly don't matter.Exactly.
And that long term vision informs the next principle,
RESPEC. Respect seems obvious, but.
Treat children with the same respect you'd naturally give an
adult. Don't be snide, Don't dismiss
their feelings. Don't interrupt them constantly.
Recognize their innate knowledgeabout themselves, even if they
can't articulate it perfectly. Imagine how you'd feel if your
(29:30):
boss interrupted you mid sentence to lecture you about
your posture, or if a friend rolled their eyes when you
expressed a strong feeling. Kids deserve that same courtesy.
That's such a powerful test. Would I do or say this to
another adult and it leaves right into authenticity.
The book says be authentic. Don't hide behind the parent
(29:51):
rule. Right.
Don't be this impenetrable, infallible authority figure.
Apologize when you mess up. It sets a powerful example,
shows you're human. And it builds real respect, not
just authority based on fear or title.
It's brave, it models humility. My own kids are always quicker
to move on from a conflict. When I genuinely say look, I'm
sorry for my part. That's spot on.
(30:12):
And to build on that, Cone encourages us to talk less, ask
more. Less dictating, more listening.
Yeah, elicit their ideas, their feelings.
Instead of immediately punishing, figure out the source
of the problem, not just the surface behavior.
Be detective, not just a judge. Exactly.
Create a safe space for them to tell you why they're unhappy or
angry. Try to uncover the hidden
(30:34):
motivations. Being a detective is exhausting
sometimes though, especially with little ones.
It is but crucial, which brings us to keep their ages in mind
and attribute the best possible motive.
Understand developmental limits.Right, don't punish A1 year old
for dropping a spoon for the 10th time.
They're not testing limits or being malicious.
(30:54):
They're exploring physics. Assume the most innocuous
explanation first before blame. I love Cohn's imagined retort
from a child. No, I'm not dense, I'm 3.
It's a brilliant reminder of where they are developmentally.
It's all about empathy, isn't it?
Which leads to limit your nose offer choices.
Sick your battles? Avoid unnecessary prohibitions.
(31:16):
And when you do offer choices, make them meaningful, not pseudo
choice. Right, which is really just a
disguised demand. Like clean your room now or
clean it in 5 minutes. It's not a real choice.
Give kids a real say in issues that actually matter to them,
proportional to their age. It fosters autonomy,
responsibility. For example, instead of hiding
the TV remote, talk together about why too much screen time
(31:36):
might be an issue and brainstormsolutions.
It's a partnership. That makes so much sense for
building that internal compass, and I'm sure every parent
relates to this next one. Don't be in a hurry.
Oh yeah, rushing the enemy of patience.
Rushing leads to coercive tactics, threats, demands.
It's just easier when you're stressed and late.
(31:56):
So rearrange your schedule if you can avoid urgency.
Having more time let's you maybewait out a resistant child
rather than escalating. It's incredibly hard, but
investing a little time now might save hours of conflict
later. Just allow space for cooperation
to maybe emerge. It's a long game strategy, and
the final principle will highlight maybe the most
transformative take their perspective put.
(32:19):
Yourself in their shoes. Cohen suggests this imaginative
reversal. Ask yourself if that comment I
just made to my child had been made to me, or if what I just
did had been done to me. Would I feel unconditionally
loved? Wow, that's powerful.
It can be when a child's having a tantrum, instead of seeing
defiance, imagine how terrifyingit feels to be so completely out
(32:41):
of control, overwhelmed by big emotions.
If you can tap into that, you'llnaturally.
Respond with comfort and reassurance, not more control,
because that's what you'd need if you're in that state.
That's such a profound practicaltool.
Shifts everything. So what does all this mean for
raising truly moral children, not just compliant ones?
(33:01):
That's a crucial question, the author argues.
Humans are actually born with the capacity to care, with an
innate moral sense. So our job isn't to install
morality. Our job is to stop interfering
with it through punishments and rewards that inadvertently focus
on self-interest. It's like we have this inherent
moral compass and our goal is tokeep it calibrated, spinning
(33:22):
freely. Not break it and replace it with
a reward chart or fear. Exactly.
That's a powerful way to frame it.
So if we want to cultivate genuinely moral, thoughtful
kids, what are the books key recommendations?
Cohen offers several 1st and maybe most fundamentally care
about. Them the relation.
A secure, warm, unconditionally loving relationship is the
(33:44):
cornerstone, the bedrock. Kids who feel safe and loved are
more open to influence, more likely to internalize values.
Makes perfect sense. Foundation first, then.
Let them practice, give them real opportunities to help
siblings, pets, household tasks.Promote cooperation over
competition. Studies show cooperation makes
(34:04):
people more benevolent, generous.
It's like learning to ride a bike.
You can't just read about it. You have to get on and try,
maybe fall. They need real chances to be
kind. Absolutely.
And then talk with them reasoning don't just say don't
do that or we don't hit. Explain why.
Engage their minds. Help them wrestle with moral
questions. This promotes independent
thought, altruism way more than simple commands.
(34:26):
It's why dialogues beat lectures.
They invite internal understanding, not just external
compliance. You want them to get the why,
not just the what? And finally, back to perspective
taking. Yes.
Perspective taking help them understand others feelings.
Gently point out tone of voice, body language, facial
expressions. Encourage them to imagine what
(34:46):
it's like to be someone else. Step into their shoes.
This build empathy which is the root of genuine caring, the
desire to help, teaching them toread the emotional language of
the world. Book also touches on cultural
differences, right? It does.
Interestingly, the concept of the terrible twos isn't
universal. It seems to depend a lot on how
(35:08):
much parents in a culture assertauthority and control.
And while parenting styles vary wildly, research consistently
suggests controlling parenting is linked with negative outcomes
across cultures. Autonomy understood as
choicefulness, Self determination.
That seems universally important.
That's just a Western idea, a human need.
It's that way. The book also thoughtfully
(35:30):
addresses race and socioeconomicstatus, recognizes external.
Pressures, yeah, economic pressure can unfortunately lead
to more coercive methods just due to stress, lack of
resources. And while some argue physical
punishment isn't as harmful in cultures where it's more
accepted. Cone strongly counters that good
intentions don't guarantee good outcomes.
(35:50):
Even if kids accept it as normalor a form of love, it doesn't
make it less damaging psychologically or morally.
What's accepted isn't necessarily what's beneficial.
Critical distinction. Exactly.
And that tackles the dangerous neighborhood theory too, the
idea that strict authoritarian discipline is necessary for
survival in tough environments. Cone argues against that.
(36:12):
He argues that type of discipline actually impedes
moral sophistication, cognitive flexibility, the capacity to
care. It might even make kids less
compliant when adults aren't around.
Because obedience is based on external fear, not internal
conviction. Right.
The goal should always be good judgment, responsibility, and
not just blind obedience. You want kids with a strong
(36:32):
internal moral compass, not justa fear of getting caught.
Wow, what a deep dive. We've really peeled back the
layers on conditional parenting,rewards, punishments, control,
all those pressure. Societal.
Personal. From the how did my mother get
in my larynx moments to the silent costs of a superficial
good job, it's clear conscious, unconditional parenting is truly
(36:58):
a journey, not a destination. It's not about finding a magic
bullet, is it? It's a profound shift in mindset
and it's a journey that's never too late to start or to course
correct on the crucial question to ask yourself.
Maybe everyday. If that comment I just made.
Or what I just did, if it had been done to me.
What I feel unconditionally loved.
That simple imaginative reversal.
(37:19):
It can be transformative. It forces you to consider the
message they're receiving, not just the one you think you're
sending. Exactly.
O As you go about your day, think about how you can
consciously shift from doing to towards working with, from
demands towards curiosity, from control towards connection.
It's about reassuring our children through words and more
(37:40):
importantly, actions, that we love them always,
unconditionally. Even when they're making you
want to pull your hair out over mismatched socks for a formal
event or negotiating for one more marshmallow, that's when
unconditional love really shines.
Remember being in control as a parent.
It means creating a safe, healthy environment, offering
(38:00):
guidance, not demanding absoluteobedience.
It means empowering them to gaingenuine control over their own
lives, to develop their own internal compass.
We can always do better, and this book gives us a powerful
road map. And it truly leaves us with a
profound, provocative thought weoften forget.
Even when kids do rotten things,our goal isn't just to make them
(38:23):
feel bad or stamp out of behavior.
What is the deeper goal? Our deepest goal is to influence
the way they think and feel, to help them become the kind of
people who wouldn't want to act cruelly or unfairly.
And to do that. Cone insists we need to protect
and nurture our relationship with them above all else.
It's the ultimate long term investment.
The relationship is key. Thank you for joining us on this
(38:44):
deep dive. We hope this is giving you some
powerful Nuggets to reflect on, maybe apply.
Hopefully some food for thought.Until next time, keep digging
deeper into what truly matters.
Welcome to the Summary State podcast.
Great to be diving in again. Absolutely.
Today we're tackling a really transformative book.
It challenges pretty much everything we thought we knew
about raising kids. Yeah, it's a big one.
We're talking about Alfie Cone'sunconditional parenting, moving
from rewards and punishments to love and reason.
(00:20):
Love and reason, quite the title.
It is now, before we even crack open the covers, let's let's set
the stage a bit. If you've ever found yourself
just utterly exhausted, clueless, maybe even having
those unspoken dark moments as aparent, Oh, I.
Think everyone's been there? Right.
Wondering if serving like the wrong shape of pasta could
(00:40):
genuinely lead to neighbor calling screams?
Well, you're definitely not alone.
The pasta shapes too real. The author himself admits you
know parenting is not for wimps.My own experience, it's a
constant test of your capacity to deal with disorder
unpredictability. A test you can't study for.
Exactly, no Cheat Sheets. When I want to say something
(01:01):
isn't difficult, I usually just say hey at least it's not
parenting. That's such a relatable starting
point, and the author dives right into that raw, messy
reality, doesn't he? He really does.
And then he contrasts it with this like pervasive societal
expectation. He highlights how faced with all
this difficulty, we're often tempted to just focus on getting
(01:24):
short term obedience. Yeah, just get through the
moment. Think.
About that moment on a plane, you know, hearing someone
congratulate parents because their child was so good.
Oh yeah, so well behaved. The con points out good often
just means quiet, right? Or maybe not a pain in the butt.
To me, it's not really about anything deeper.
You're right, it's rarely about the child being caring or
(01:45):
creative or curious. It's just well behaved in that
very narrow, kind of superficialset.
So our mission for this deep dive is to really unpack that
foundational idea, challenge some widely accepted practices
that honestly maybe don't serve our long term goals.
And explore a whole new way of thinking.
Exactly about what truly matterswhen we're guiding our children
(02:08):
to become, you know, thoughtful,caring, responsible people.
It's about building humans, not just managing behaviors.
Yeah, big difference. OK, so let's really unpack this
core idea from the book, this stark difference between what we
think we want from our kids in the heat of the.
Moment versus our deepest long term hopes for them, right?
(02:30):
Cone asks parents in his workshops about their long term
goals and the answers? They're remarkably consistent
all over the country. What kind of things come up you?
Know happy, balanced, independent, fulfilled,
productive, self reliant, responsible, kind, thoughtful,
loving, inquisitive, confident, pretty much every good quality
(02:51):
you could wish for, right? It's a great list.
It makes you think doesn't totally, because it immediately
makes you wonder, are our everyday parenting practices
like actually consistent with what we really want?
Are those supermarket meltdowns and how we handle them actually
helping a child become happy andindependent?
Or are there maybe making those outcomes less likely?
Yeah. Are we undermining our own
goals? Yeah, the author suggests this
(03:12):
thought experiment. Imagine overhearing 2 parents
talking about your kid at a birthday party.
OK, what would give you the mostpleasure to hear them say?
My guess in Cohn's hope is it wouldn't be.
Boy, that child does everything he's told and you never hear a
peep out of them. Absolutely not.
No parent really dreams of raising a perfectly compliant
(03:33):
little robot. And yet for generations, so many
parenting books, the general conversation, it's all focused
on how to get children to complyright?
How to make them behave? Or even train them like pets.
Yeah, we've see titles like Parents in Charge or Laying Down
the law. It's all about control, even if
the methods have shifted, maybe from spanking to timeouts or
(03:55):
rewards. The underlying goal is still
control. It's like a how to guide for
turning your child into AI don'tknow a well oiled obedience
machine without much thought forwhat makes them tick inside what
builds their character. Which brings us to the
fundamental distinction the author makes conditional
parenting versus unconditional parenting.
OK, the core divide. Let's start with a classic
(04:16):
scenario from the book involves a child named Abigail.
Imagine your child throws a fit,wakes the baby, refuses a bath.
Standard stuff. Been there, done that.
If you're operating from a conditional mindset, you might
think, OK, no snuggles, no storytonight.
That's rewarding bad behavior. Right, that's the common logic.
You'd suspend the nice things, explain the consequence, and
(04:39):
feel like, OK, you're back in control.
It feels instinctively right forso many of us, this idea of
boundaries and consequences. It's fascinating how deep that
runs, isn't it? This conditional approach, it's
psychologically rooted in a behaviorism, Skinner and all.
That. Exactly, BF Skinner.
In that view, only observable, measurable behaviors really
matter. If you can't see a desire or a
(05:01):
fear, you just focus on what people do.
What you can measure? Right.
The underlying assumption is that all behavior is based on
simple cause and effect, rewardsor punishments.
So a child sharing a dessert that's purely because it led to
good feelings or praise in the past?
It's like people are just intricate machines.
Kind of responding to external inputs like a vending machine.
(05:24):
Put in the right coin reward or punishment and you get the
desired product, the behavior. And this behaviorist lens, the
author argues, leads to some truly, well, bizarre practices.
Like what? Take compulsory apologies,
forcing kids to say sorry when they're clearly, obviously not
sorry at all. Oh.
Yeah, the forced apology. Cone asks.
(05:45):
Do parents assume that making children speak this sentence
will magically produce in them the feeling of being sorry?
Or worse, do they not even care if the kids actually sorry?
Because sincerity is irrelevant.Just get the words out.
Exactly, he warns. This trains children to say
things they don't mean. That is to lie.
It's like house training a puppyto sit, not nurturing a human
(06:05):
being. That's a sharp comparison, He.
Even half jokes, and I love this.
The value of a parenting book isinversely proportional to the
number of times it contains the word behavior.
That's brilliant. It really hits home how he views
that whole mechanistic approach.Doesn't it?
It changes your perspective. It really does, if we broaden
our view. The unconditional approach looks
at the child so differently. It asks us to consider that a
(06:29):
child's actions are often just the outward expression.
Of something deeper inside. Right.
Inner feelings, thoughts, needs,maybe unexpressed frustrations.
Children aren't inherently malicious.
They're communicating that something is wrong.
You know, in the only way they know how.
So it's signal not just bad behavior.
It's fundamentally a vote of confidence in children.
(06:50):
It challenges that assumption that they'll just take advantage
of affection or always want to act badly.
It shifts the focus. From just changing the visible
action to understanding the invisible reasons behind it.
Like an iceberg, right? You see the tip, but you need to
understand what's going on beneath the surface.
So back to that Abigail scenario.
Yeah, the fit. The bath refusal.
(07:11):
The unconditional parent wouldn't withhold snuggles or
story time. Why?
Because the lesson is far more likely to stick if the child
knows your love is absolute. It's not dimmed by their
momentary actions. The love isn't conditional on
the behavior. Right then, once the storm
passes, you reflect together what happened, what was
(07:31):
frustrating, what could we do differently next time.
It's about the child who engagesin the behavior, not just the
behavior itself. Yeah.
It's recognizing that love isn'ta reward to be earned, but this
foundational, secure base that actually allows for growth and
genuine learning. That's a huge shift.
OK, buckle up. We're going to dive into two
(07:52):
incredibly popular modern discipline techniques that the
book argues are actually quite damaging.
All right. Where are we starting?
First, let's talk about love withdrawal.
This includes things like timeouts or deliberately
ignoring a child. OK, timeouts.
Very common. Very common, often presented as
this gentler alternative to spanking, right?
(08:14):
But the author peels back those layers, reveals a very different
picture. It's particularly insightful, I
think, to look at the origin of the term timeout.
Where did it come from? It's actually an abbreviation
for Timeout from Positive Reinforcement.
And where did it come from? Straight out of the animal
behavior labs. Seriously, animals.
Yeah, BF Skinner and his followers developed it to train
(08:34):
pigeons and chimpanzees to get them to Peck certain keys or
stop doing something annoying. Pigeons and chimps.
Within a few years, the author reveals this technique was
applied to retarded institutionalized subjects.
That was the term used then before being just
indiscriminately applied to all children.
Wow. So we're talking about a
technique that literally startedwith trying to stop a chimpanzee
(08:57):
from doing something by making its world temporarily boring and
unrewarding. That's eye opening.
Yeah, a technique that started with controlling animal
behavior. It really begs the question,
does it make any sense to raise our kids these complex emotional
thinking beings based on a modelused for birds and rodents?
Spare a question. Cohen asserts that time out,
(09:18):
like all punishments, just stayson the surface.
It's designed purely to make an Organism act or stop acting in a
particular. Way right.
It's like trying to fix a leaky faucet by just putting a bucket
under it. Yeah, instead of finding out
what's wrong with the pipes, you're just addressing the
symptom, not the root cause. And that brings up the point
about effectiveness. Yes, love withdrawal can work to
(09:39):
change behavior in the short term.
A kid might stop hitting their sibling during a timeout.
Sure, it might stop the immediate behavior.
But the cost is enormous. Research consistently shows it
instills deep anxiety about possible loss of parental love,
which can be more emotionally damaging than even a spanking.
That makes sense. Imagine being a kid, already
(10:00):
feeling overwhelmed, and then being cut off from your main
source of security. It's terrifying.
A study of 7th graders even linked love withdrawal to a
lower level form of morality where kids just rigidly apply
rules to avoid punishment. Rather than genuinely
considering context or others needs.
Exactly. They learn to do exactly what
they're told just to avoid losing love, not because they
(10:22):
understand why it's the right thing to do.
They're just following a script to avoid emotional abandonment,
like a tiny, scared actor performing for an audience.
OK, so if love withdrawal is that unsettling, wait until we
talk about its flip side, positive reinforcement,
especially praise. The carrot.
Yeah, the carrot. The author compares it to the
carrot and stick philosophy that's absolutely everywhere.
(10:45):
Workplaces, classrooms, families.
This pervasive idea that if you want someone to do something,
you either dangle a carrot, a reward, or wield a stick, a
punishment. And with kids, praise is often
seen as the ultimate universallygood carrot, right?
Like you can't go wrong with praise.
But what's genuinely surprising here is that extensive research
(11:07):
consistently shows rewards are not only ineffective long term,
but often counterproductive. How so counterproductive the
book? Highlights Study after study,
children rewarded for being nicebecome less likely to think of
themselves as nice people. Wait, why?
That seems backward. Because they attribute their
behavior to the external reward.So when the reward stops, the
(11:28):
helpfulness often stops. Too.
Oh, OK. It wasn't the being nice, it was
the reward making them act nice.Exactly.
Cone uses a brilliant analogy. Offer a reward for drinking an
unfamiliar beverage. Kids will like it less next week
than those who drank it. Without a reward interest.
Or pay kids to solve a puzzle. They'll stop playing with it,
but once the payment stops, while the unpaid kids keep going
(11:50):
just for the joy of it. It's like paying someone to eat
their favorite food. Suddenly it feels like work, not
pleasure. The intrinsic joy gets sucked
right out. That's nicely.
And this extends to praise too, like good sharing or I'm so
proud of you for helping. Yep, the book argues, it can
actually make kids less interested in sharing or helping
out of genuine desire. The action becomes just a means
(12:13):
to an end. Just to get that positive
reaction from an adult, like a performance.
Which brings us to a crucial point the book makes.
Praise isn't just different fromunconditional love.
What is it then? It's the polar opposite.
Wow. Polar opposite.
Explain that. Well, if you connected to the
bigger picture, praise is fundamentally a way of saying
you have to jump through my hoops in order for me to express
(12:35):
support and delight. OK, I see.
Good job. Isn't just a description, it's a
judgement, an evaluation. It can subtly communicate I love
you because you've done well. Which implies.
I don't like you when you don't do such and such.
Cohen shares. A story of a babysitter who just
plainly stated good behavior gets my attention.
Yikes, red flag. Big time.
(12:55):
She made love and attention transactional, like this little
emotional accounting system where kids constantly have to
earn their worth. Also love the bumper sticker
example he shares someone had. I'm proud of my child who was
student of the month on their car.
Oh, right. And the story of the mother who
just cut it down to I'm proud ofmy child, full stop.
(13:17):
That really resonates. It's such a powerful, simple act
of resisting conditional parenting.
It is, and the book warns, the more we praise, the more
insecure children can actually become.
It leads to this vicious circle where they need more prey.
Which further undermines their self esteem and can lead to
helplessness. It's a self feeding loop that
just drained their intrinsic motivation, leaves them
(13:38):
constantly looking outside themselves for validation.
Which leads us directly to what the book calls the self esteem
controversy. Yes, the self esteem movement.
For decades we've heard a high self esteem is just universally
good. But the author argues it's not
about how much self esteem someone has.
What is it about then? It's about what kind.
(13:59):
The real problem isn't necessarily low self esteem.
I don't feel very good about myself.
It's contingent self esteem, which means I feel good about
myself only when. Only when I succeed or get
approval. Exactly.
It's the sort of self esteem that fluctuates wildly with
every success or failure. Like a stock market ticker
(14:20):
reacting to every bit of news, your worth is constantly on the
line. And this is where the plot
thickens, because it connects directly back to conditional
parenting. Well, if you're loved only under
certainly conditions, it's incredibly hard to genuinely
accept yourself. Right, makes sense.
This creates what Cone calls a false self.
The child learns to pretend to be the kind of person their
(14:41):
parents will love, constantly performing for approval.
That sounds exhausting and sad. It is, and this false self is
often associated with depression, hopelessness, and a
profound loss of touch with one's true identity.
Imagine that, spending your whole life as an impersonator of
yourself. Constantly performing, never
knowing who you are when the spotlights off.
(15:03):
It's a truly chilling thought. Yeah.
Now let's talk about this pervasive issue of too much
control. OK?
The author shares some. Really cringeworthy
observations. Parents harshly reprimanding
toddlers for throwing a teddy bear when no one else is even
around. Right.
Why? Mothers falsely claiming signs
prohibit splashing in a fountain, hissing at a child for
(15:25):
a happy whoop at the playground,or just the constant nagging at
dinner, turning family meals into an escape mission.
It's like kids are walking on egg shells constantly under
surveillance even for the most normal kids stuff.
Exactly, That's a critical point.
The pervasive problem in our society isn't actually
permissiveness, it's the fear ofpermissiveness.
We're so worried about spoiling kids.
(15:46):
That we often end up over controlling them, sometimes to
an absurd degree. The author cites the
psychologist Haim Jannat asking us to compare how we'd react if
an adult friend forgot their umbrella versus how we might
berate a child for the same thing.
Few of us, Jannat says, would think of derating another adult
in the tone that is routinely used with kids.
(16:09):
That's a stark, uncomfortable reminder.
The double standards we apply without even thinking treating
kids is somehow lesser. It's true, and this over control
isn't just specific methods, it's a fundamental mindset.
Authoritarian parent. Exactly.
Expecting absolute obedience, Offering no explanations.
Believing kids need constant monitoring, that they can't be
trusted. And here's the kicker.
(16:30):
The paradox The parents most concerned about controlling
their kids often end up having the least genuine control over
them. It's like trying to hold sand in
a tightly clenched fist isn't. It the harder you squeeze, the
more it slips through your fingers.
It's counterintuitive, but powerful.
Indeed, studies show that children of warm, respectful
parents who minimize control andoffer reasons are actually more
(16:52):
likely to comply, and willingly.Really, less control leads to
more compliance. It seems so.
There was a classic study. 2 year olds whose parents
accommodated their objections, showing respect for their
autonomy, were the most compliant.
Another study with defiant preschoolers found kids who had
less control during play were more likely to follow
instructions later. If we look at the bigger
(17:14):
picture, autocratic environments, homework,
wherever, they just make people sick, anxious, rebellious.
The kids learn from that. They learn to use power and
anger against others from authoritarian parents and they
might become impetuous hooliganswhen parents backs are turned,
as one mother observed about herhusband's family.
Masters of covert rebellion not genuine with self regulated
(17:35):
people. And that internalized pressure
to be good or work hard just to please parents rather than out
of genuine choice. It leads to short lived
happiness, fluctuating self opinion, guilt, shame.
It also stifles interest and skills.
Children with controlling parents show less interest in
activities, give up more easily,are less creative.
(17:58):
The book argues the goal isn't to be in control, it's to be in
control of helping them gain control over their own lives.
Empowerment, not conformity. Building an internal compass,
not just following someone else's GPS.
Exactly. OK.
So beyond just compliance, many kids are also subjected to just
immense pressure to succeed. The achievement pressure.
(18:20):
The book highlights this press for success that can basically
mortgage a child's present for some future goal, like getting
into a top university. Raising living resumes.
Totally. Every activity, every
achievement, just another bulletpoint.
Kids learn to ask, do we need toknow this for the test instead
of What does this mean? Education becomes a transaction,
not an exploration. And it's particularly concerning
(18:42):
that this pressure isn't limitedto any specific.
Group right now? No, it's everywhere.
The book points out studies showing higher rates of
substance abuse anxiety among wealthy teenagers compared even
to inner city kids, suggesting this immense pressure has its
own heavy toll. Wow.
And when kids are pushed to do better than their peers, it
breeds alienation, aggression, envy, contempt.
(19:05):
Competition, just by its nature makes self esteem conditional
and precarious, win or lose. It turns childhood into a 0 sum
game. Someone else's win feels like
your loss. This is where the human element
really comes through. Why do parents do this?
The author introduces Berg, basking in reflected glory.
(19:26):
It's when parents get this vicarious validation or status
from their kids success. Living through your kids, it's.
Not just healthy pride, it's themy child is smarter than your
child competitive bragging like those bumper stickers.
My child is an honor student at the so and so school.
Right, the child becomes an extension of the parents ego, a
trophy to display. It makes you wonder, is the
decision being made for the child's well-being or for the
(19:49):
parents ego? Like redshirting?
Exactly. Holding a kid back a year before
kindergarten so they're older, maybe more adept.
It's interesting how the strategy flipped over
generations, but the underlying motivation.
Trying to gain an edge in the childhood race.
Stays the same. And the book stresses that
crucial difference between kindsof motivation.
(20:09):
Extrinsic versus intrinsic. Right.
Getting a good grade is extrinsic, external solving a
problem, understanding a story that's intrinsic from within.
And when kids focus too much on grades or external praise?
They tend to lose interest in real learning.
They avoid challenges where theymight not shine immediately.
They think less deeply. Pushing them hard might get
(20:30):
surface results. But at a steep price to their
emotional health, their intrinsic love of learning.
This situation is particularly ominous, Cone says, when love
seems to be contingent upon meeting very high and often
unrealistic standards. That tragic example of Kyle, the
seven-year old tennis star, Oh yeah, felt ashamed when he lost.
His self worth was just tragically tied to not effort or
(20:53):
joy. It's heartbreaking.
Which brings us to that huge question the book asks.
Why do we parent this way? Yeah, why are conditional
control based approaches so popular, so ingrained, despite
all this evidence against them? The author argues we need to
rethink what we think before we can possibly redo what we do.
OK. He breaks it down into 4 main
(21:14):
categories. Shaping our parenting, What we
see and hear, what we believe, what we feel and what we fear.
Like tracing your own parenting DNA?
Kind of. Yeah.
It's a powerful frame and cones.Simple question.
How did my mother get in my larynx?
Yes. That immediately brings us to
the first category, what we see in here.
It's the most obvious explanation, right?
(21:35):
We learn how to parent by watching how we were raised.
We picked up the rules, the expressions.
A general sense of the parents role.
It takes, as he says, sharp thinking and courage to step
back and consciously decide which patterns to keep or
discard. Otherwise you're just following
a script you to right echoing the past without thinking.
And it's astonishing how widespread that influence is,
(21:57):
not just our parents. In laws friends, even
pediatricians who as the author notes, were often taught this
standard behaviorist stuff. Right.
The sheer pervasiveness of the traditional control approach
makes you assume, well, so many parents can't be wrong.
And let's be honest, it's often the easier path, the mindless
path. Working with strategies like
(22:19):
Cone advocates, they demand so much more from us.
More thought, more patience, more emotional energy.
It's like being in a herd. It feels safer, less effort to
just follow the crowd. Even if they're heading
somewhere you don't really want to go.
OK, so then we move to what we believe.
Beliefs about children. The book highlights that many
(22:40):
parents operate from this sort of negative, almost cynical view
of kids. So we will take advantage or
they're inherently bad or lazy. This inherent distrust.
Logically leads to controlling them, the book points out.
It's far more common to ignore the epidemic of punitive
parenting and instead fix it on rare examples of permissiveness.
Right, we crack down on little kids for just being little kids.
(23:00):
Like punishing a three-year old for being dense when they're
just pink 3. It's an interesting projection,
isn't it? Expecting toddler monks?
Yeah, this belief system is often tied to society's deep
embrace of competition. It's like our state religion,
right? Infiltrating work, school, home.
Many discipline books frame parenting as battles and.
(23:22):
The author is unsparing. The moms and dads who need to
win are the ones who do the mostdamage.
Wow. Another belief system, Support
and control, as the book explores, is rooted in certain
religious traditions where deities offer the ultimate in
conditional love. Rewards for obedience.
Punishments for straying. Exactly a cosmic carrot and
(23:43):
stick reflected in how some approach their children, echoing
that same transactional dynamic.And then there's that insidious
problem of either. Thinking the false dichotomy,
yeah. Either you take a hard line and
punish, or you're permissive andlet kids get away with
everything. The book calls this the
Goldilocks Gambit. Authors position their approach
as just right, but it still often leans heavily on control.
(24:04):
Cohn argued use We need to challenge the very premise of
how much to control kids. Explore alternatives to the
whole idea of control itself. It's not just finding a
different tool in the toolbox. It's redesigning the whole
workshop. OK, third category, what we
feel. This is where it gets really
personal, the impact of our own upbringing.
Our own emotional baggage. Right.
(24:25):
Our childhood experiences, especially unmet emotional
needs, maybe past traumas. They can make us emotionally
unavailable to our own children.How so?
Parents who are constantly trying to prove their own worth,
maybe because they felt their value was conditional.
They might be less accepting, more punitive or controlling
with their kids. They might project their own
(24:46):
stuff. Exactly.
They may even attribute negativemotives to children seeing
innocent misbehaviors as deliberate defiance or
manipulation. It's like their own unfulfilled
emotional tanks are so loud theycan't genuinely hear their kids
needs. Misinterpreting innocent actions
is calculated defiance. Ouch.
OK, final category, what we fear?
(25:07):
This one really hits home I think.
It did for me too. We all have fears that subtly or
not so subtly, Dr. our parentinglike the fear of parental
inadequacy. Feeling like you're not good
enough, Yeah. Leading us to blindly follow bad
advice or maybe overcompensate by becoming this rigid parent
with a capital P. Right then there's that primal
(25:28):
fear of losing control, especially when a helpless
infant turns into a strong willed toddler.
Oh yeah, I vividly remember evening with my then three-year
old son, utterly resistant to getting undressed for bed.
The Bedtime Battle classic. My own fear of losing control
led to an hour of tears, his andmine, until I finally realized I
(25:49):
was being just as irrational as he was, stubbornly trying to win
a battle against a tiny, tired person.
We both lost. The relationship suffered.
That's such a powerful, honest anecdote.
It really highlights how much ofwhat we do is driven by fear of
being judged by them. Friends, relatives, strangers.
Right. They also gives the example of
prompting a baby to say thank you to an adult.
(26:09):
Is it for the baby's benefit? Often it's to show other adults
that you know how to raise polite kids.
This fear makes us more coercivein public, performing our
parenting for an unseen audience.
Exhausting. Then there's fear for kids
safety, which can morph into stifling overprotection,
stripping kids of decision making and the fear of babying
(26:30):
them or them being left behind in the competitive race.
Leading to those unproductive pressures.
It's a relentless external gaze that pushes parents into often
counterproductive behaviors. It's truly a vicious cycle, but
the book emphasizes truly great parents are willing to bravely
confront these troubling questions.
And to say I want to treat my children the way I wish I had
(26:53):
been treated. It's about breaking free from
that inherited, often damaging script, consciously writing your
own more compassionate, more effective one.
That's the ultimate goal, a fundamental shift in thinking,
moving from how do I get my child to do what I say to what
does my child need and how can Imeet those needs?
The book lays out 13 principles,but let's highlight some key
(27:14):
ones that truly transform parenting from doing to a child,
working with them, moving from overseer to copilot.
Perfect way to put it. So let's dive into a few of
these crucial principles. What's the very first
foundational step? Well, the first is to be
introspective and honest. Absolutely foundational.
Understand yourself first. Exactly.
(27:35):
You have to understand your own motives, your needs, your
experiences, what makes you angry and why.
It's self-awareness, not self criticism.
So when your kid pushes your buttons.
Pause. Ask yourself, am I reacting to
my child's behavior right now, or am I reacting to my own
triggered frustration? Maybe a feeling of disrespect
from my own past. It's like turning the flashlight
(27:57):
on yourself before you shine it on your child, understanding
your own emotional landscape totally.
So once we understand ourselves a bit better, what's next in our
daily interactions? The author suggests we then
reconsider your requests. Before you even try to enforce
compliance, ask yourself, is what I'm demanding truly
reasonable or necessary? Maybe the problem isn't the kid.
Maybe the problem is the demand self, for example, battling over
(28:21):
a specific outfit for a casual day.
Maybe it's just not worth the fight.
Perhaps they're not being defiant.
Maybe your request is just irrelevant to any real long term
goal. It challenges us to pick our
battles wisely and sometimes just drop them.
Which is a game changer for daily sanity.
It really is, and it forces us to zoom out, doesn't it?
(28:43):
Which leads perfectly into the next principle.
Keep your eye on long term goals.
Oh, get bogged down in the dailyminutiae, right?
Remember those big, beautiful long term goals?
Happy, responsible, kind adults.A strong, loving relationship
isn't just useful to get compliance, it's an end in
itself. Are you really willing to
sacrifice that deep trust over, say, a brand of cereal or a sock
(29:07):
choice? Because in the grand scheme,
those things truly don't matter.Exactly.
And that long term vision informs the next principle,
RESPEC. Respect seems obvious, but.
Treat children with the same respect you'd naturally give an
adult. Don't be snide, Don't dismiss
their feelings. Don't interrupt them constantly.
Recognize their innate knowledgeabout themselves, even if they
can't articulate it perfectly. Imagine how you'd feel if your
(29:30):
boss interrupted you mid sentence to lecture you about
your posture, or if a friend rolled their eyes when you
expressed a strong feeling. Kids deserve that same courtesy.
That's such a powerful test. Would I do or say this to
another adult and it leaves right into authenticity.
The book says be authentic. Don't hide behind the parent
(29:51):
rule. Right.
Don't be this impenetrable, infallible authority figure.
Apologize when you mess up. It sets a powerful example,
shows you're human. And it builds real respect, not
just authority based on fear or title.
It's brave, it models humility. My own kids are always quicker
to move on from a conflict. When I genuinely say look, I'm
sorry for my part. That's spot on.
(30:12):
And to build on that, Cone encourages us to talk less, ask
more. Less dictating, more listening.
Yeah, elicit their ideas, their feelings.
Instead of immediately punishing, figure out the source
of the problem, not just the surface behavior.
Be detective, not just a judge. Exactly.
Create a safe space for them to tell you why they're unhappy or
angry. Try to uncover the hidden
(30:34):
motivations. Being a detective is exhausting
sometimes though, especially with little ones.
It is but crucial, which brings us to keep their ages in mind
and attribute the best possible motive.
Understand developmental limits.Right, don't punish A1 year old
for dropping a spoon for the 10th time.
They're not testing limits or being malicious.
(30:54):
They're exploring physics. Assume the most innocuous
explanation first before blame. I love Cohn's imagined retort
from a child. No, I'm not dense, I'm 3.
It's a brilliant reminder of where they are developmentally.
It's all about empathy, isn't it?
Which leads to limit your nose offer choices.
Sick your battles? Avoid unnecessary prohibitions.
(31:16):
And when you do offer choices, make them meaningful, not pseudo
choice. Right, which is really just a
disguised demand. Like clean your room now or
clean it in 5 minutes. It's not a real choice.
Give kids a real say in issues that actually matter to them,
proportional to their age. It fosters autonomy,
responsibility. For example, instead of hiding
the TV remote, talk together about why too much screen time
(31:36):
might be an issue and brainstormsolutions.
It's a partnership. That makes so much sense for
building that internal compass, and I'm sure every parent
relates to this next one. Don't be in a hurry.
Oh yeah, rushing the enemy of patience.
Rushing leads to coercive tactics, threats, demands.
It's just easier when you're stressed and late.
(31:56):
So rearrange your schedule if you can avoid urgency.
Having more time let's you maybewait out a resistant child
rather than escalating. It's incredibly hard, but
investing a little time now might save hours of conflict
later. Just allow space for cooperation
to maybe emerge. It's a long game strategy, and
the final principle will highlight maybe the most
transformative take their perspective put.
(32:19):
Yourself in their shoes. Cohen suggests this imaginative
reversal. Ask yourself if that comment I
just made to my child had been made to me, or if what I just
did had been done to me. Would I feel unconditionally
loved? Wow, that's powerful.
It can be when a child's having a tantrum, instead of seeing
defiance, imagine how terrifyingit feels to be so completely out
(32:41):
of control, overwhelmed by big emotions.
If you can tap into that, you'llnaturally.
Respond with comfort and reassurance, not more control,
because that's what you'd need if you're in that state.
That's such a profound practicaltool.
Shifts everything. So what does all this mean for
raising truly moral children, not just compliant ones?
(33:01):
That's a crucial question, the author argues.
Humans are actually born with the capacity to care, with an
innate moral sense. So our job isn't to install
morality. Our job is to stop interfering
with it through punishments and rewards that inadvertently focus
on self-interest. It's like we have this inherent
moral compass and our goal is tokeep it calibrated, spinning
(33:22):
freely. Not break it and replace it with
a reward chart or fear. Exactly.
That's a powerful way to frame it.
So if we want to cultivate genuinely moral, thoughtful
kids, what are the books key recommendations?
Cohen offers several 1st and maybe most fundamentally care
about. Them the relation.
A secure, warm, unconditionally loving relationship is the
(33:44):
cornerstone, the bedrock. Kids who feel safe and loved are
more open to influence, more likely to internalize values.
Makes perfect sense. Foundation first, then.
Let them practice, give them real opportunities to help
siblings, pets, household tasks.Promote cooperation over
competition. Studies show cooperation makes
(34:04):
people more benevolent, generous.
It's like learning to ride a bike.
You can't just read about it. You have to get on and try,
maybe fall. They need real chances to be
kind. Absolutely.
And then talk with them reasoning don't just say don't
do that or we don't hit. Explain why.
Engage their minds. Help them wrestle with moral
questions. This promotes independent
thought, altruism way more than simple commands.
(34:26):
It's why dialogues beat lectures.
They invite internal understanding, not just external
compliance. You want them to get the why,
not just the what? And finally, back to perspective
taking. Yes.
Perspective taking help them understand others feelings.
Gently point out tone of voice, body language, facial
expressions. Encourage them to imagine what
(34:46):
it's like to be someone else. Step into their shoes.
This build empathy which is the root of genuine caring, the
desire to help, teaching them toread the emotional language of
the world. Book also touches on cultural
differences, right? It does.
Interestingly, the concept of the terrible twos isn't
universal. It seems to depend a lot on how
(35:08):
much parents in a culture assertauthority and control.
And while parenting styles vary wildly, research consistently
suggests controlling parenting is linked with negative outcomes
across cultures. Autonomy understood as
choicefulness, Self determination.
That seems universally important.
That's just a Western idea, a human need.
It's that way. The book also thoughtfully
(35:30):
addresses race and socioeconomicstatus, recognizes external.
Pressures, yeah, economic pressure can unfortunately lead
to more coercive methods just due to stress, lack of
resources. And while some argue physical
punishment isn't as harmful in cultures where it's more
accepted. Cone strongly counters that good
intentions don't guarantee good outcomes.
(35:50):
Even if kids accept it as normalor a form of love, it doesn't
make it less damaging psychologically or morally.
What's accepted isn't necessarily what's beneficial.
Critical distinction. Exactly.
And that tackles the dangerous neighborhood theory too, the
idea that strict authoritarian discipline is necessary for
survival in tough environments. Cone argues against that.
(36:12):
He argues that type of discipline actually impedes
moral sophistication, cognitive flexibility, the capacity to
care. It might even make kids less
compliant when adults aren't around.
Because obedience is based on external fear, not internal
conviction. Right.
The goal should always be good judgment, responsibility, and
not just blind obedience. You want kids with a strong
(36:32):
internal moral compass, not justa fear of getting caught.
Wow, what a deep dive. We've really peeled back the
layers on conditional parenting,rewards, punishments, control,
all those pressure. Societal.
Personal. From the how did my mother get
in my larynx moments to the silent costs of a superficial
good job, it's clear conscious, unconditional parenting is truly
(36:58):
a journey, not a destination. It's not about finding a magic
bullet, is it? It's a profound shift in mindset
and it's a journey that's never too late to start or to course
correct on the crucial question to ask yourself.
Maybe everyday. If that comment I just made.
Or what I just did, if it had been done to me.
What I feel unconditionally loved.
That simple imaginative reversal.
(37:19):
It can be transformative. It forces you to consider the
message they're receiving, not just the one you think you're
sending. Exactly.
O As you go about your day, think about how you can
consciously shift from doing to towards working with, from
demands towards curiosity, from control towards connection.
It's about reassuring our children through words and more
(37:40):
importantly, actions, that we love them always,
unconditionally. Even when they're making you
want to pull your hair out over mismatched socks for a formal
event or negotiating for one more marshmallow, that's when
unconditional love really shines.
Remember being in control as a parent.
It means creating a safe, healthy environment, offering
(38:00):
guidance, not demanding absoluteobedience.
It means empowering them to gaingenuine control over their own
lives, to develop their own internal compass.
We can always do better, and this book gives us a powerful
road map. And it truly leaves us with a
profound, provocative thought weoften forget.
Even when kids do rotten things,our goal isn't just to make them
(38:23):
feel bad or stamp out of behavior.
What is the deeper goal? Our deepest goal is to influence
the way they think and feel, to help them become the kind of
people who wouldn't want to act cruelly or unfairly.
And to do that. Cone insists we need to protect
and nurture our relationship with them above all else.
It's the ultimate long term investment.
The relationship is key. Thank you for joining us on this
(38:44):
deep dive. We hope this is giving you some
powerful Nuggets to reflect on, maybe apply.
Hopefully some food for thought.Until next time, keep digging
deeper into what truly matters.
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