April 6, 2020 • 49 mins
November 2018 was the hardest month for her. As she took a picture of the endless pile of sticky notes covering her desk, computer, and her entire life, Jessica knew it was time to make a change. Following these simple steps, she would regain her footing and take ahold of her balance. In this podcast, listen as Jessica discusses the elements to gaining balance in work and life, as she presented them to the AIGA Cincinnati chapter.
About Jessica Stoddard
Jessica Stoddard makes her mark an in-house designer. More than just create print and web collateral, she is a brand standards guardian and a visual needs guide to her teammates. Working with Jessica is sensitive, collaborative, and the pace keeps everything exciting.
As the wellness director for the AIGA Cincinnati board, Jessica created mental health programming for creatives. She is always looking for new connections in the mental health and wellness sectors to collaborate with.
Experienced with both agency and in-house design, as well as working directly with small businesses, doing everything from marketing strategy and print design to web design and prototype creation. Especially interested in brand guardianship roles, opportunities to learn more about user experience design.
About Kyle Hamer
A sales and marketing veteran with a deep understanding of strategy, digital marketing execution, and using technology to enhance brand impact. A hands-on leader with a passion for solving business challenges with process, operations, and technology. When Kyle's not tinkering on businesses, you'll find him spending time with those he loves, learning about incredible people, and making connections.
About Hamer Marketing Group
Market growth for a new product or service is often limited by market distractions, unreliable data, or systems not built to scale. Hamer Marketing Group helps companies build data-driven strategies focused on client acquisition and sales development supported by the technology and operations necessary to create profitable growth. on
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kyle Hamer (00:06):
Hello and welcome to the summit, the podcast where we
bring you knowledge and insightsfrom industry leaders and
professionals.
No fluff, no double digitovernight growth schemes.
We're having real conversationswith real people to get you
answers on how to elevateyourself in your career path.
Today's guests in joining us onthe summit is my good friend
Jessica Stoddard.
Jessica, how are you today?
Jessica Stoddard (00:27):
I'm doing great.
Kyle, how are you?
Kyle Hamer (00:30):
Me?
I'm fantastic.
I uh, it is a beautifulafternoon and in love and
September's weather.
So how are things in Cincinnati?
Jessica Stoddard (00:40):
Oh, also beautiful if you all, yeah, like
we're doing pretty wellweather-wise now that we're into
a false fall is what we call itin the Midwest.
Kyle Hamer (00:49):
Yeah, that's the head.
September is the, is the headfake in middle earth.
Uh, I am actually very excitedto have you on the show today
because this was about a yearago, maybe, maybe less.
You put together a presentationfor a professional association
you're in and it's titledwellness practices for creative
leaders.
And I just thought that it wasreally, really interesting how
(01:12):
your story and this particulartopic Kaleida key gives a little
bit of background about, aboutyou and how this topic came
about.
Jessica Stoddard (01:21):
Sure.
Um, Avesta gives us apresentation on a national level
, um, because I am one of onlythree wellness directors in the
professional organization acrossthe country.
A IGA, which is the largestorganization for creative
professionals in since in theUnited States, is exploring the
idea of wellness as somethingthat designers could, that
(01:44):
designers can do for themselvesas well as director.
I'm responsible for organizingprogramming.
And what I found as a, as aleader in the creative community
is I was actually using wellnesspractices as part of my daily
routine and it was helping menot just lead other people and
(02:04):
not just take responsibility forprojects and things that I was
passionate about, but alsohelping me keep my mental health
in check.
So it's something that AIG isusually passionate about and
something that I'm hugelypassionate about as well.
Kyle Hamer (02:19):
There's been a pretty big assault on creatives,
creative types, and then thisthought of creative leadership.
And even wellness, you know,it's, it's interesting that AIG
is taking a, um, I wouldn't callit a leadership position or a
thought leadership position onthe positive impact that
wellness and mental health ormental wellness or overall
(02:40):
wellbeing can have[inaudible]creative output because it's
probably not something that mostcreatives would naturally
gravitate towards or even eventhink about it.
Is that, is that true or hasthat been your experience?
Jessica Stoddard (02:53):
[inaudible] um, it's definitely, it's been
my experience that we all needreminders that I, you don't go
into a creative field.
You usually don't go into designwithout being passionate about
design.
And sometimes you can let thosepassions override the kind of
common sense things that wecould get into and talk about
(03:15):
things that you know are goodfor you.
Things like getting enough sleepor drinking enough water and how
that kind of impacts your mentalhealth.
And the truth is, and one of thethings that we've also talked
about as an organization is thatyou're actually better at
creating creative output ormaking creative output.
Uh, when you keep the rest ofyour mental health in check.
(03:40):
The metaphor of the torturedartist I think is something that
a lot of creatives fight with.
And certainly in design school,they encourage all nighters or
do they encourage[inaudible] Mmm.
Drinking or other substances tokind of get the quote unquote
juices flowing.
But the truth is the statisticsbear out that you actually do
(04:02):
better when you kind of lead acleaner life.
So pay attention to what isright for you.
Um, and what makes you feelhealthy every day makes you
productive every day.
And I think that's somethingthat designers do care about,
but we don't always, if you'renot paying attention to it, you
stopped pretty quickly.
I know I, yeah, I buy a box ofcookies.
I eat a box of cookies typething
Kyle Hamer (04:23):
for, for folks that push, push the creative limits
or push to procrastinate to, towait for that, you know, that
brilliant creative spark.
There are probably, uh, habitsthat have been created that just
needs some, some coursing orcorrecting to help even further
find that, that creative utopiaor, or Nirvana.
(04:44):
Talk to us a little bit aboutthis, this program that you've
put together, what the elementsare and take us through, you
know, what are the things thatas a, as a creative or somebody
who once to be well but alsowants to be seen as a leader,
how to put those together asthe, at the program you built.
Jessica Stoddard (05:03):
What I did was I built the Cincinnati wellness
programming around 12 behaviorsthat are not just continually
identified but identified in thesame way in every study article
and book that I read[inaudible]like it's, it's kind of
interesting how psychology,neurology, sociology, and even
(05:24):
physiology.
Um, I'll come to the sameconclusions.
Um, and these aren't likeanything that I think are
revolutionary.
These things include doingphysical activities and getting
outside, getting enough sleep,de-stressing your diet, meaning
eating kind of fruits andvegetables, uh, eat plants, not
(05:46):
a lot.
Uh, is my metaphor limitingalcohol and caffeine.
And that's another one that Ithink is rough.
When I say substances are we notall guilty of abusing caffeine,
treating yourself well,cultivating and maintaining a
positive attitude, which I thinkis something that we've covered
specifically as creatives.
(06:07):
Talking to other people aboutyour problems, scheduling
downtime, keeping a journal,focusing on what you are good at
and asking an offering help andlearning how to practice
mindfulness.
Those are the things like ifit's 12 and that was kind of a
long list[inaudible] none ofthem are really surprising when
(06:30):
you think about it.
You're not like, Oh man, I'mcultivating a that positive
attitude I never knew that wouldhelp me feel better.
Kyle Hamer (06:37):
Well, I mean, but some of them, some of them are
easier to identify in others,right?
Like for example, Hey, it'spretty obvious if I look in the
mirror or step on the scale orjust deal with my own Catholic
guilt about being physicallyactive enough versus you may not
have the context of am Icultivating a positive
(06:58):
perspective?
What are some strategies aroundhelping begin to, to look at
these 12 and manage these 12 ona continual basis that is, that
is effective or make sense.
Jessica Stoddard (07:10):
You're right.
Like a, there are things thatare easier to identify as
others.
And when we're talking about asleaders, I kinda, you can leave
it up to yourself that a littlefacts like I'm, you're supposed
to get eight hours of sleep anight and you know, you know,
you shouldn't eat the entirepoint of cookies and, but it's
the ones that are harder todefine and ones that we need
(07:33):
reminders of is, for example,focusing on your strengths or
cultivating a positive attitudeis not beating yourself up.
Um, or not letting that Catholicguilt get to you if you do eat
the plate of cookies, you know,if you start with the most
active ones out of theseprinciples, I think one of the
first ones that I gravitatedtowards and I started putting
(07:54):
into practice was journaling.
And the journaling is basicallyby, it's, it's something that
you can do to focus on yourstrengths.
Then it's something you can doto cultivate.
And maintain a positiveattitude.
And I think it's also because weare born stilly storytellers,
(08:15):
creatives especially.
Mmm.
If you start a journal focusingon what you are thankful for,
you become a more thankfulperson.
And that's kind of what thestudying or what studies have
shown is journaling has thepower for you to start telling
your own story that you can makea point of being grateful and
(08:41):
recognizing how much could youhave to focus on, tells you that
you are living a good life,which I think most of us are.
Right.
So that would be kind of thefirst strategy.
Kyle Hamer (08:51):
So, so I have a question about that.
You know, you the, one of thestrategies, one of the elements
here is, is being mindful is theself-awareness that led you to
go to journaling first.
Would it, would it actually becategorized if you were being
mindful of, Hey, this feels likethe most natural first outlet or
this feels like the one thatwould bring you the most joy?
(09:12):
Were you being mindful beforeyou started journaling or was
it, Hey, you just sat there andyou're like, look, I know that I
need to get some of this stuffout.
I'm just going to write.
And then eventually it kind ofled to this self-realization of,
Hey, this is something thatbrings me a little bit of joy.
This helps me tell my story.
And this was a really good placefor you personally to start.
Which one was, it was a chickenegg.
What, what kind of led to that?
(09:32):
I need to journal moment foryou.
Jessica Stoddard (09:35):
Oh man.
Okay.
So it's actually, it's probably,it's definitely journaling was
one of the last things that Icame to, but I think when we're
discussing things that we canstart doing, like it's always
better to have Mmm.
In my opinion, if I'm givingreminders, it's, this is a thing
you can do versus this is amindset you can cultivate.
(09:58):
And I think I, uh, went througha particularly stressful period
at work.
And I think one of the things Istarted asking myself was, why
am I getting so upset in themoment?
And how can I stop myself fromgetting so upset?
And, uh, one of the things thatcame out of that was listened
(10:21):
more and talk less and Mmm.
In order to be a betterlistener, I'm writing more
things down.
Um, and then kind of readingstudies about gratitude and what
the story telling my how'sstorytelling mind works.
Um, that the story I want totell myself, Mmm.
(10:44):
If it's a good one, then what mybrain can do is it can
constantly rewrite a situation.
Um, I think probably the firstone I went to Mmm.
Was actually, uh, practicingmindfulness.
And what does that mean?
Because that is so hard to try.
(11:06):
And I've downloaded half a dozenapps and I like some more than
others, but a lot of times forme I'm like, well, I'd like to
be able to turn my phone off.
Um, so learning exercises forpracticing mindfulness was
probably the first one I wentto.
Um, and journaling was somethingthat came out of that.
(11:28):
Um, if that makes sense.
Can you talk a little bit more?
Kyle Hamer (11:32):
Yeah, no, I, yeah, I think it makes perfect sense.
I think that's, for those thatare listening, you're like, well
, journaling, I don't like towrite or I definitely don't like
to exercise, so there's no waythat I'll ever achieve wellness.
And I think at least to having,having known you through this
journey, your earliest part ofthe journey and then having
heard you talk through this, Ithink it feels like the first
(11:56):
step is self-awareness in thatmindfulness of, okay, I realize
what I want and what I'm gettingare not equal or I'm not sensing
, feeling, experiencing what Iwould expect.
Why.
And in your, you know, yourcheckpoint of 12 pieces becomes
somethings very interesting tostart working through.
Jessica Stoddard (12:20):
Definitely.
Definitely.
And the, the, the dissonance Ithink between, yeah, what you
want, which is to be happy mostof the time or at least content
and seeing myself be unhappy,I'm like, what can I do?
You know, if you Google, how canI be more happy?
I think practicing mindfulnessand I mean like for practical
(12:41):
terms, um, I think it'simportant to say that
mindfulness just means payingattention, you know?
And I think that started withwalks.
Um, and I found, uh, origamiparticularly helpful and any of
those things, when someone saysmindfulness, what they mean is
focusing on a singular task.
(13:02):
Um, that doesn't take, um, theamount of conflict.
There's no, when you're walkingand you notice the things on
your walk and you notice a treeand you notice the leaves, you
don't have time to debatewhether or not that tree has
given you an assignment thatmakes sense as a creative or
(13:24):
whatever other conflicts you'refeeling.
So it's really focusing in onthe individual moment.
[inaudible] and there areexercises that you can go
through that help with those.
And so then it was, um,exercises that help with those
that leads you to journalwriting.
And it leads you tounderstanding that cultivating a
(13:45):
positive attitude is somethingyou try and do.
Kyle Hamer (13:49):
See, it's, it sounds like you didn't arrive at
journaling right away.
It was something that happenedin, evolves for you through
experiencing and the things.
So first thing you said is, isHey, I'm not happy here what I
want in what my reality are.
They're not lining up.
Step two was as you said, Hey,I'm going to the walkaway or I'm
going to find something to focuson, like work to create moments
(14:12):
of clarity and then either getintrospective or outrospective
as it relates to what's reallyhappening in this moment.
What are, what are some of theother things that you began
exploring in NBN experiencing inyour own personal journey for
figuring out that, Hey, theseare the elements.
Like if you, if you figure outthere's, there's a, there's a
formula that works foreverybody.
(14:33):
What are some of the other areasthat you experienced and in and
you're like, yeah, no, thisisn't going to be something that
I'm going to spend a lot of timein.
Jessica Stoddard (14:42):
Yeah, no, that definitely, so some of those
came from reading.
Um, but I think another one thatI really got a deep personal
connection with, um, was askingfor an offering help, um,
because I'm a huge believer inbuilding community.
AIG a is a volunteerorganization.
(15:03):
Um, if you're going to serve onthe board, they asked for a
certain commitment of time.
Um, but it's really, it's a beltbuilding community among other
creatives.
There was something I wasalready passionate about.
Mmm[inaudible] I think I alwaysassumed that the offering help
was, uh, more important thenasking for help.
(15:29):
And when I kind of went throughcrisis, it was yes, first that,
okay, I need to walk away.
Oh, look how pretty this treeis.
And that gave me enough clarity.
But in asking for help, um, whatI learned was[inaudible] it
breaks down a barrier that I hadpreviously thought of hell
(15:51):
thought of asking for help issomething that[inaudible] other
people do.
Um, and I judged myself prettyharshly if I couldn't do
something or I can do somethingwithout help because asking for
help is kind of a sign ofweakness.
And I think a lot of creativestruggle with perfectionism, um,
(16:12):
that they also don't want to askfor help.
But criticizing and criticizingyourself doesn't actually help
you get better.
It just leads to making you feelresentful about responsibilities
you've turned on.
So when I did have to ask forhelp, what I'm doing, what I
(16:32):
realized I was doing and whatstudies have confirmed that
you're doing is I and confirmedthem with the person that I'm
asking help of, I trust you.
And it's that rewriting thatstory of I'm with someone I
trust.
And even if it's a small ask andyou get me a glass of water type
(16:53):
thing and bringing it intolarger asks, Mmm, what you're
doing is you're asking for whatyou want and not only are you
hopefully getting what you want.
And I will say I don't alwaysget what I want[inaudible] but
it's been life changing in termsof realizing that I can judge
myself less.
(17:14):
Um, and you know, it's, it'srealizing that leading a
community is more than offeringhelp and solving other people's
problems.
But it's understanding that myshared humanity means that I can
ask for help too.
So that was another, anotheraspect that I've experienced
personally that I can say helpedme beat a more wholehearted
(17:38):
life.
Um, certainly very helpful.
Kyle Hamer (17:42):
If I, if I can, if I can ask a couple of questions
related to that moment for you.
You know, you, you talk abouttrust and you talk about this,
this moment of being in a spaceas a creative and as this person
who's in a prominent positionwhere there's a high level of
(18:03):
criticism, what does it take foryou to trust in, in what was the
moment where you realized you'relike, Hey, I need to change
something because this isn'tworking for me.
Was there something specificallythat was going on at say work or
a project or what, what was themoment for you where it was
like, ah, I've got to get overmy fear so I can, I can get
(18:26):
through this particular moment?
Jessica Stoddard (18:30):
Um, well, I do have to give a ton of credit to
Bernay Brown here, um, because Ithink it was, uh, she's a
thought leader in wellness.
Um, she's written several booksmost recently, uh, dare to lead,
which as you said, I think cameout around this time last year.
Um, and she said, uh, that whenyou think that you are not
(18:57):
allowed to ask her help, whatyou're really doing is silently
judging everyone else who doesask for help.
And you know, like I kind of, Iwas like, Oh my God, I do that.
Oh my God, how did you know theperson who's written this book?
Mmm.
You know, clearly for millionsof people.
(19:19):
Um, and I was like, that isexactly what I do is I don't ask
for help because I'm afraid ofthe criticism that I'm going to
receive.
Um, and so from there, I thinkit was asking for more help from
the leaders in my life.
Mmm.
And if I'm going to ask forhelp, I think that led me to
(19:43):
giving feedback and how I needthat help.
Um, and looking at other talkson leadership and that really is
where leadership is, is, um,taking responsibility for other
people.
And, um, when I started askingfor help by, I have occasionally
not asked the correct questionor not asked, um, for help in an
(20:08):
inappropriate manner.
And then that goes into yourrevisiting.
Mmm.
How I'm giving feedback.
And that led me to thepracticing gratitude and taking
time, uh, at least weekly, ifnot daily, to say I'm grateful
for these things.
(20:28):
Because then when I'm takingstock of what I'm grateful for,
I know who I can ask[inaudible].
Building that level of people Ican trust and having more people
on your side I think is always agood thing.
And that mental story that youtell yourself.
Yeah,
Kyle Hamer (20:45):
it is really interesting to look at the
parallels between leadershipwithout authority, right?
So in the, in the thing that wehave to be careful with is
sometimes in American societyspecifically, Oh, if you're a
manager or a director or anexecutive, you have, you're a
leader.
Nope, you're a manager.
Right?
You, you've been given somelevel of authority.
(21:05):
But true leaders are folks thatbuild trust, they communicate
well, and then they instill somesort of common vision or
collective, uh, community fromthose around them.
Whether they are like-minded ornot that they, they have been
bestowed this because there's alevel of trust.
And I think it would be reallyhard for, for creatives to
(21:30):
expect to be able to lead orexpect to be able to be in a
leadership position, even evenwithout a title, if they can't
trust others and they can'ttrust themselves.
Was that kind of yourexperience?
Did you see your, your positionas a leader or your position
inside your, your workenvironment change as you began
embracing these, these differentprinciples and as you began
(21:51):
trusting more?
Jessica Stoddard (21:54):
Um, I definitely saw my position
changing.
Um, and that was some taking onmore responsibility but then
also leaning harder on myteammates.
Um, and I think it's interestingthat you mentioned that and I
was like, Oh, right.
I also noticed, um, we're, we'redancing around a difficult topic
and we'll continue dancing.
(22:14):
Um, but you know, that there wasa difficult position that you
came into how we met.
And I also remember a moment ofclarity that I was like, Oh,
tile is actually nice to us.
And, um, I think there were somepeople in the office who are
like, he's just putting on ashow.
(22:35):
And I was like, no.
And also if he's just putting ona show and being nice, well
what's the point of the showthat that seems like a ever, you
know, leadership style.
And I think that's an excellentpoint too.
You're leading versus managingis we had had a couple of
managers who were maybe not aswell suited because they had
gotten the role, but theyweren't Mmm.
(22:58):
Talking or they weren't backingup their actions with the role
they had gotten.
And so that was another kind of,if I'm generous with compliments
and I'm generous with mygratitude, I think that was
something that started helpingme lead other team members, even
though I'm not in an officialleadership role, I was taking
(23:19):
responsibility for the projectsand I was taking
responsibilities for the peoplearound me.
Um, and I think that's reallywhat influenced a lot of this
talk was these are the thingsthat I'm seeing and maybe I want
a leadership role.
Um, and that was certainly veryhelpful as well.
So thank you for that.
(23:40):
I forgot and I'm sorry I forgot.
Like, man, this guy.
Yeah.
[inaudible].
Yeah,
Kyle Hamer (23:48):
look, I, I, I appreciate the compliment.
I'm not great at thinking them.
I think every person is on theirown personal journey and, okay,
well I was happy to be a part ofit.
I'm very, very glad that youfound this space and I'm happy
that we can share it with otherpeople because I think that's
the, that's the trap.
The trap is, is that I am stuckin my station.
(24:08):
I'm stuck in a position where Ihave to be a perfect, I'm stuck
in my station where I have todeal with the sore throat
authoritarian or this dogmaticmanager that's driving me
insane.
And as a creative, that can feelvery stifling and very emotional
because, because there's so muchemotion moving through a
creative and a creative idea and, and, and being able to express
(24:30):
it and get it out.
And that's, it's challenging,right?
Because you express somethingand it doesn't come out right
and they're like, Oh crap.
Well now I'm being judged for itbeing incorrect, but I didn't
deliver it the way I want it to.
Whether that's visually or froma, from a, from an audio
standpoint or the way that itwas written.
You being able to go on thispath and figure out how to trust
(24:54):
yourself and B, um,introspective enough to, uh, be
mindful of the things that wereimportant to you.
Got you to a spot where you'relike, Hey, I realized that I
don't have to be confined to myunhappiness.
I don't have to be confined towhat is my station.
(25:14):
As a matter of fact, I can see aclear path to how I lead others.
If anything, I think this is astory of hope four for people
who are, who are out there thatare listening as it relates to
their own situation.
You don't have to be confined bywhat your current station is.
These, these elements forwellness can lead you to be very
(25:35):
much a leader, not only ofyourself, but of creatives and
others around you.
Just by kind of exploring,right?
Cause it wasn't, this was a,this was a two to three year
process, if I remember correct.
Not a, not an overnight thing.
Jessica Stoddard (25:50):
Definitely not an overnight thing now.
Um, and that is definitely, Ithink there's, um, there's a
balance.
Um, when you start taking stock,um, of, you know, as a creative,
I'm naturally inclined to askquestions of why couldn't this
be better?
Um, but the, you know, it's kindof flipping that around when I
(26:13):
did mine this research and notso much what, why couldn't this
be better?
But what could I do to make thisbetter?
And
Kyle Hamer (26:24):
yeah,
Jessica Stoddard (26:24):
there's, um, I've kind of, you say we're all
on our own personal journeys andI'm like, I wholeheartedly
agree, but I also am like, Idon't know that I could
personally feel fulfilled as acreative if I wasn't helping
other people on their journeysbecause we're all in this
together.
Um, very few people are a loanartists.
(26:49):
You know, it's another myth ofthe lone Wolf who is a brilliant
creative all by themselves.
Um, by paying attention to mycommunity and, uh, establishing
that trust with them.
It's really, it's enhanced mypractice as a creative.
Um, it's led to me asking morequestions as a critical thinker
(27:10):
and Mmm, certainly morechallenges.
But it definitely, I think it,it's given me a greater level of
satisfaction.
Um, and of course also a greaterlevel of calm because I think
that's, that's the one thing,the other thing that we keep
getting away from is like, Oh,we can be better leaders.
(27:31):
And I'm like, also though,scheduling downtime I think is
something that I have, uh, stillworking on.
Um, you know, it's, it's never,I'm not an expert.
I am just trying to remindmyself as often as I remind
other people.
But, um, especially this, thispast month, um, has been a
(27:52):
revisiting of that andscheduling downtime and taking
more walks.
Um, there are so many trees anduh, my new neighborhood, I just
moved and um, yeah, it's thatscheduling downtime and really
taking stock of everythingthat's outside of my creative
practice that I think is helpingme now.
Mmm, sure.
(28:13):
I bet.
Kyle Hamer (28:14):
Well, congratulations on giving him
that.
No, you're, I think you're, Ithink you're spot on.
Congratulations on the newplace.
That's, that's exciting, right?
Whenever there's change, there'salways disruption.
And that disruption can mess upthe, the Zen, if you will, or
the, the balance that we have.
And, and to your point, I thinkit's the, you cultivating the
skill of being mindful helpedyou find the, I mean my, my
(28:37):
perspective may be wrong, butcultivating that skill of being
mindful cause it's not, it'snot, we're not necessarily, we
are selfish, selfish, selfishcreatures.
Being mindful is a skill.
It is not something that we'reinnately born with.
I don't, I don't care how you'reborn.
I just don't think that that'strue.
And you, you may, you maybelieve differently, but that's,
it's something that youcultivated.
(28:58):
Did you not cultivate it?
Jessica Stoddard (29:00):
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (29:01):
This move would have been a whole lot more stressful.
Jessica Stoddard (29:05):
Uh, yeah.
And I think I probably put thosepractices by the wayside.
And it's that it's forgivingyourself and realizing that
cultivating a positive attitudemeans that you extend that
generosity yourself and you say,well, I didn't do this great,
but I don't need to be perfectin order to be a leader.
And I think that's something,you know, that a lot of people
(29:28):
who get really, really high uprealizes perfection is never the
goal.
Um, it's always doing your bestand there's, it's kind of
cyclical and I think, yeah,getting back into these
mindfulness practices and payingattention to all the good
things.
Mmm.
Leave me energized, you know,for starting another round of,
(29:49):
uh, wellness programming, um, inSeptember and starting to do
more good for the community.
And I'm sure I'm going to askfor lots of help of everyone in
my life and I'm looking forwardto it cause it gives them an
opportunity to delight me.
Mmm.
And I think I have a lot ofpeople that I can trust to do
that.
Kyle Hamer (30:10):
That's awesome.
Well, you know, I think trust,trust runs both ways and that's,
it's an important component.
Um, you know, I think one of thethings you touched on you, you
mentioned that the Browns, uh,there to lead book.
And one of the things that'sprobably the most poignant
story, at least for mepersonally in talking about how
we always have those moments ofbeing mindful.
(30:31):
And in the stress of life andthe craziness of life can
interrupt us.
Renee talks about coming home inthe middle of a speaking tour or
a, I'm writing the book that shewas writing and there was no
food and she yelled at herhusband for something and he
walked in and he looked at herand she was just super angry
(30:52):
and, and there was a, there wasa discussion back and forth and
he asked her like four simplequestions, a, you know, have you
ever had to do this or has thisever been an expectation?
Is this something that's everbeen, um, in, in all the time
we've been together as a server,something.
So where's this coming from?
And in the moment, in the heat,you have to read the book to get
the whole story.
(31:12):
But in the moment, in the heatof it, she, she had built the
skill enough to be mindful andintrospective and to look at the
relationship with her, with herhusband, for what it was, and
look at the emotion for what itwas.
And she realized that the, theemotion and the anger and the
response came from a position ofstress came from a position of
(31:33):
not communicating and notgetting the things that she
needed to be her best self andit was having an impact in that
moment.
And so,
Jessica Stoddard (31:42):
yeah,
Kyle Hamer (31:43):
eh, I don't know if you remember the story that I'm
talking about, but it's,
Jessica Stoddard (31:46):
I do.
Yeah.
Um, it was actually, it was amoment in which she talks about,
and I think that's another toolhere that, um, she's confirmed.
So I didn't use it in any of mypresentations, but it's
definitely something that Ithink is worth touching on.
Um, that, uh, the tool she usedwas, the story I'm telling
(32:08):
myself is that I'm not a goodwife for having the fridge
stocked and I'm not a good wifebecause I don't have any food
that's ready for people to eat.
And I'm already hungry and I'malready an, I expected to be fed
and I expected to do all thesethings.
Um, and it was a load ofexpectations that she was
(32:30):
putting on herself, um, versusasking for help.
And she also, because she wasnot asking for what she said she
was projecting onto her husband,was that he didn't think she was
a good wife.
And he, you know, and he waslike, I, and she's like, the
story I'm telling myself is thatyou think I am a bad wife for
(32:54):
not having the fridge stocked.
And it's a, it's a layer uponlayer of expectations.
And I kind of, I think most ofus have felt that way.
I've certainly come home tosimilar situations and been
like, Oh my God, I can't getthis done.
Why am I so bad at being human?
The wives on TV, uh, you know,or the husbands on TV can keep
their houses clean.
(33:15):
Why can't we?
And it's, it's a layer ofexpectation and that realizing
that sometimes we're our own,our own worst critic.
Um, and I think especially with,yeah, with creativity, you know,
they encourage criticism becausethat's how you get better work.
[inaudible] we're not projects.
(33:36):
People are not projects.
People are people.
And we deserve to be treated, uh, a bit more graciously than,
you know, the next sales slickyou make.
Kyle Hamer (33:46):
Yeah.
You look and Horton who hears a,who dr Seuss probably said it
the best.
A person is a person no matterhow small.
And I think, you know, itdoesn't matter how large you are
in an organization with title,what rank or how small you are
or how you feel.
You're right.
You're entitled to thosefeelings.
You're entitled to be trustedand you're, you're entitled to
not be dealing with expectationsthat are unrealistic in a
(34:09):
narrative that, that you can'tfulfill.
Jessica Stoddard (34:13):
Definitely.
Definitely.
Kyle Hamer (34:15):
So if we walk it back, we walked back to the
beginning and we kind of walkthrough, Hey, how do I, how do I
begin on this journey?
How do I, how do I startthinking about wellness in
helping me achieve, kind of walkus through what you know, what,
what are those steps?
What are those things that weneed to be, I think it starts
with mindfulness, but fromthere, what are the things that
(34:36):
we need to inventory and toolsthat we can use to begin being
our best selves as creatives?
Jessica Stoddard (34:45):
Oh gosh.
So, and I think that's why wecreated some of this programming
because, um, I, I'm a big uh,qualitative researcher.
Um, I like comparing the resultsMmm.
Of multiple studies and that'swhere these 12 areas of overlap,
(35:05):
like there is just, there is nodisputing certain things.
And I think, um, exercising isanother interesting one because,
uh, I think you mentionedearlier, um, if not during the
podcast and when we were talkingearlier that you were thinking
about it during your ride.
And I'm like, yeah, because whenyou're riding a bike, you have
(35:28):
the focus on putting one foot infront of the other know that's
another, it's a little bit ofmindfulness and this way, you
know, like exercising isn't justgood for losing weight and
adding that on our model ofperfection, you know, it's
exercising is good for yourheart.
It's good for getting thoseendorphins going.
(35:48):
You know, and these are thingsthat are just easy for studies
to confirm that like you can geta dopamine high or runner's high
and that's a nice healthy way toget your brain sort of addicted
to dopamine while it's good foryour heart.
And um, and then you have timeto think about whatever is
troubling you.
And even if you're not, maybejournaling physically with
(36:10):
writing things down, and I'm abig fan personally of post it
notes and Sharpie markers andthen just crumbled up at the end
of the month.
Mmm.
But if you've got that timewhere you're doing this
repetitive task of riding abicycle or running or dancing is
a, another thing that I do you,you're having that time to run
(36:33):
the stories through your head.
And as long as you're keepingtrack, I think that's probably
one of the first temps ofkeeping track.
If a thought you're experiencingis negative, it's helpful to
identify that thought as that'snot a very nice thing to think.
What would be a different way offraming this that would be more
(36:54):
grateful?
Mmm.
What is there to be grateful forin this situation?
What is the positive side ofthis situation?
And it sounds a little, Mmm[inaudible] you know me pretty
well, Kyle, I realize yourlisteners don't know me pretty
well, but I, I am not aPollyanna, um, ever.
And I think it, it sounds alittle Pollyanna and I promise
(37:18):
you if you start doing it thoughand you go actually, you know,
like it doesn't work 100% of thetime.
Like I'm like, ah, that lady whojust caught me off was wearing a
really pretty blast.
It doesn't work.
Um, you know, like it is, it is,it has to be a little
superficial and it doesn't work100% of the time, but it starts
(37:38):
getting you into practice, youknow?
And that's, that's thepracticing gratitude is really
what you're getting at when yousay journaling.
And I think exercising wouldprobably be another big tip
cause you know how much you'resupposed to, you know, that's
another easily Google, Google,like it's um, two and a half
hours of moderate activity aweek is what you kind of need to
(38:01):
keep your heart healthy and twoand a half hours, uh, moderate
activity is also two and a halfhours that you can spend
thinking positively.
And it's identifying a negativethought as a negative thought
and trying to turn it around ona grateful slot.
Um, as much as possible.
It's not, Oh, I can't, I can'tsay that it always works for me.
(38:24):
Um, but the more you do it, theeasier it becomes to, and I
think that's a Dale Carnegie, apiece of wisdom from the 1940s
is, uh, you know, if look ateveryone in the room and you
think of something nice that youlike about them, it makes it
easier to get along witheveryone in the room.
And so you can turn up, treatyour thoughts the same way.
Kyle Hamer (38:45):
Well, it's practice, right?
I mean it's, it's, you'rebuilding a habit, you're
building a skill.
The first time you put apaintbrush to canvas or the
first time you put a color tothe correct coloring book,
right.
There were no, there were norules and it wasn't the world's
greatest design or most colorfulpicture.
(39:07):
But over time you develop thatskill because you continue to
stay at it.
And the same thing is the same.
It's the same thing for your,your mind and being positive,
being mindful habits ofexercise, food, et cetera.
[inaudible] yeah.
Just has to be something thatyou are intentional about.
And then at some point it willstart to create outrageous joy.
(39:28):
And you do, you really not, Iwouldn't say entirely sure why,
but you'll, you'll start to missit when you stop doing it.
Jessica Stoddard (39:35):
Definitely.
Yeah.
And eventually you will be like,you know that.
Yeah, they did have a reallynice pair of sunglasses on even
though they cut me off andyou'll find yourself thinking
that genuinely like, man, that'smessed up.
So it's also kind of cool.
Right?
Um, yeah.
And, uh, and then it's, yeah,it's um, I'd say yeah, the other
(39:58):
I think other thing that Istruggle with, but the more I
practice at it is I'm getting asleep schedule and getting
enough sleep.
Uh, and that means saying atthis time every day, because I
know I'm going to get up at thesame time relatively every day,
um, give yourself an extra houron the weekends type deal.
(40:20):
Um, but saying I go to bed atmidnight and if it's after
midnight, I need to startlearning to say no.
And setting boundaries isanother huge part of this as
well.
Um, but setting up rituals whereyou can be mindful and I think a
lot of people, I personallydon't journal at the end of the
day cause I, I like to runmyself ragged and then be like,
(40:44):
cool, falling asleep.
It's midnight.
Um, but yeah, coming up with abedtime is another one that I'd
say is a, I think that you startdoing and once you start doing
it and yeah, bedtimes alsoseemed kind of like something
that belongs in, leave it toBeaver.
I think after design school Iwas like, well, bedtimes and
sleeping, those things are forlosers.
(41:08):
Um, but it's something that I[inaudible]
Kyle Hamer (41:10):
and learn.
Jessica Stoddard (41:11):
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (41:12):
Yeah.
Little kids, losers and littlekids with mommy's.
I don't have a moment.
I'm not a loser, so I'm going tostay up all day.
Jessica Stoddard (41:19):
I moved out of my parents' house 15 years ago.
Um, and now I no longer have abedtime, dammit.
And I can stay up all night, uh,drinking and eating popcorn.
All I want to.
Mmm.
But God, that did soundPollyanna.
Wow.
(41:40):
They up all night.
Kyle Hamer (41:41):
Yeah.
Jessica Stoddard (41:44):
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (41:46):
So here's what I have to say.
And then, yeah, I'll, I'llcomment on this right there.
There's a, there's a lot ofthings that when you're highly,
highly driven, you're highlycreative.
You're a highly[inaudible]independent and you see the
world a certain way.
There's a lot of things that youcan do, but just cause you can
(42:09):
do it.
Does it mean that you should?
And that that is a, that is alesson that I think for me has
been one of the personally, thelargest struggles because I, you
know, for, for me, my bigweakness as it came to things,
um, in, in trying to figure outhow to, how to lead even lead
myself was putting too much onmy plate.
(42:31):
I can't put that on my plate.
I can do that.
What should I, and, and when Igot good at saying no and
trusting myself enough to sayno, not being afraid that, you
know, I was going to miss out onsomething or I was going to let
somebody down, but trustingmyself enough to say, no, no, I
can't do that.
Or no, that shouldn't be done.
Or excuse me, my purse, prettyself purse permission to say
(42:53):
that is not something I shoulddo.
That mindfulness in and ofitself was a, was a huge
revelation, an empowering momentwhere I no longer felt, um, I no
longer felt the weight of everyproject that came across the
board.
I no longer felt the weight ofeverything being perfect.
I was, I gave myself permissionto say, yes, I can do this.
(43:17):
No, I should not.
And to be okay with that andthat, that I think for, for
people as you start to move upinto management, you start to
move up into leadershippositions.
It can be very challenging.
No is one of the most empoweringwords that you can put in your
vocabulary as long as you have ahuge trust relationship with the
(43:41):
people you're saying no to.
Jessica Stoddard (43:45):
No, I think that's, that's definitely, I
mean I almost feel like no is aversion of asking for help and
saying no, can you trust meenough that I will do this later
or I will find someone else whocan do it just as well.
Um, and I think no is also, it'spart of setting boundaries.
And it was interesting while youwere talking about that, I was
(44:05):
like, Oh that is anothercheck-in or another little
mental check that I've learnedto use is just because I can do
it.
Um, doesn't mean I'm going to doit.
And I think that's very helpful.
But the other thing I've startedasking myself is just because I
can do it now.
Does this mean I wanted to besomething I do in the future?
(44:28):
Yes, I could redesign thatPowerPoint.
And that's a bad example cause Idon't want to read an app
PowerPoint.
But yes, I could take someoneelse's work and spend 20 minutes
making it just that much betterin my opinion.
Um, but is that something I seemyself doing three years from
now?
Or would I rather get home ontime and see my husband and you
(44:53):
notice the trees?
Is it, what do you want fromyour life five years from now
and 10 years from now?
And just because you can do itright now doesn't mean you want
to do it for the rest of yourlife.
Um, and I think that's, that'shelpful for especially once you
get into leadership positions,um, and management positions
because yes, you can continuemanaging a team and doing all
(45:17):
the work you used to do that gotyou to be the manager of the
team.
But ultimately that's so muchwork that wouldn't it be better
to hire someone else to do it?
Um, yeah.
That's, I think that's, that'svery interesting that yes, I can
and I'm like, yeah, but do Iwant to be doing it five years
from now is also a good metricthat I've started using.
(45:40):
Cool.
Kyle Hamer (45:42):
Yeah.
Well look and I, you know, just,we've gone a lot longer than I
thought we went today and Ipromised you it'd be 20, 25
minutes and here we are.
I love your insight and I lovewhat I do with the AIG.
I said that wrong.
What is, what is the associationyou're a part of again?
Jessica Stoddard (45:59):
Uh, is AIG a more long time ago?
It used to stand for theAmerican Institute of graphic
artists, but they've since turntheir name into a symbol and
here we are.
Um, so they're just theassociates.
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (46:15):
I love the work that you're doing with that
community.
I love the work that you'redoing to help create new
leaders, new styles of thinkingin ultimately give people tools
to find happiness.
Last question.
Jessica Stoddard (46:30):
Hmm.
Kyle Hamer (46:30):
If, if somebody were starting out tomorrow and said,
Hey, I want to get goodperspective and help me
cultivate mindfulness or getstarted on this process.
Outside of maybe your slide deckin these following these 12
points or, or exploring these 12points, what's one book that
every creative wood should readin your opinion?
Jessica Stoddard (46:54):
Uh, I, I definitely, I still have to go
back to Bernay Brown and dare tolead was, it's a practical
handbook and I think herdefinition of leadership really
helped me as well.
Um, you know, she's saying allof these things better than you
or I can say that and thatshe's, she's able to get
vulnerable and that's one of herbig things.
(47:15):
But, um, she relates a lot ofthings I think a lot of
creatives go through, but a lotof intelligent people go through
, um, the cognitive dissonanceof our modern world and she lays
out some strategies for doingbetter.
Um, in addition to somestrategies for actually
practicing mindfulness, Imentioned noticing trees.
(47:36):
She actually goes throughmindfulness exercises in the
book and I, I've probably readit four times.
Uh,
Kyle Hamer (47:43):
that's awesome.
So
Jessica Stoddard (47:44):
not recommended a book more.
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (47:47):
Dare to lead by Renee Brown.
Well, again, Jessica, thank youso much for being on the show
today.
Uh, really enjoyed theconversation.
I think there's a lot of reallygood stuff here and um, we just,
we just appreciate you beingwilling to share your story and
give tips to other people on howto begin their journey.
Jessica Stoddard (48:07):
Oh, well, thank you for having me and
sharing your insights as well.
It's always a pleasure talkingto you and finding out something
new that I was like, Oh, Ididn't think of it that way.
That was good.
It was good to reminisce andgood to remember how far we've
come.
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (48:24):
Every day is, every day is a step baby steps.
It's like, what about Bob?
And, uh, while that comedy wasfantastic, uh, bill Murray and
Richard Dreyfus, the, the oneliner that I take from it is, is
baby steps, you know, rightfoot, left foot, right foot,
left foot.
And for our listeners and folksthat are here, if you haven't
started, that's okay.
(48:44):
Give yourself permission to beexactly where you're at.
But don't wait.
Begin taking step now of whereyou are in achieving happiness,
because the only person that'sgoing to make you happy
ultimately is you, and you haveto find the form lineage.
So thanks for tuning in.
Looking forward to talking toyou next week.
Hello and welcome to the summit, the podcast where we
bring you knowledge and insightsfrom industry leaders and
professionals.
No fluff, no double digitovernight growth schemes.
We're having real conversationswith real people to get you
answers on how to elevateyourself in your career path.
Today's guests in joining us onthe summit is my good friend
Jessica Stoddard.
Jessica, how are you today?
Jessica Stoddard (00:27):
I'm doing great.
Kyle, how are you?
Kyle Hamer (00:30):
Me?
I'm fantastic.
I uh, it is a beautifulafternoon and in love and
September's weather.
So how are things in Cincinnati?
Jessica Stoddard (00:40):
Oh, also beautiful if you all, yeah, like
we're doing pretty wellweather-wise now that we're into
a false fall is what we call itin the Midwest.
Kyle Hamer (00:49):
Yeah, that's the head.
September is the, is the headfake in middle earth.
Uh, I am actually very excitedto have you on the show today
because this was about a yearago, maybe, maybe less.
You put together a presentationfor a professional association
you're in and it's titledwellness practices for creative
leaders.
And I just thought that it wasreally, really interesting how
(01:12):
your story and this particulartopic Kaleida key gives a little
bit of background about, aboutyou and how this topic came
about.
Jessica Stoddard (01:21):
Sure.
Um, Avesta gives us apresentation on a national level
, um, because I am one of onlythree wellness directors in the
professional organization acrossthe country.
A IGA, which is the largestorganization for creative
professionals in since in theUnited States, is exploring the
idea of wellness as somethingthat designers could, that
(01:44):
designers can do for themselvesas well as director.
I'm responsible for organizingprogramming.
And what I found as a, as aleader in the creative community
is I was actually using wellnesspractices as part of my daily
routine and it was helping menot just lead other people and
(02:04):
not just take responsibility forprojects and things that I was
passionate about, but alsohelping me keep my mental health
in check.
So it's something that AIG isusually passionate about and
something that I'm hugelypassionate about as well.
Kyle Hamer (02:19):
There's been a pretty big assault on creatives,
creative types, and then thisthought of creative leadership.
And even wellness, you know,it's, it's interesting that AIG
is taking a, um, I wouldn't callit a leadership position or a
thought leadership position onthe positive impact that
wellness and mental health ormental wellness or overall
(02:40):
wellbeing can have[inaudible]creative output because it's
probably not something that mostcreatives would naturally
gravitate towards or even eventhink about it.
Is that, is that true or hasthat been your experience?
Jessica Stoddard (02:53):
[inaudible] um, it's definitely, it's been
my experience that we all needreminders that I, you don't go
into a creative field.
You usually don't go into designwithout being passionate about
design.
And sometimes you can let thosepassions override the kind of
common sense things that wecould get into and talk about
(03:15):
things that you know are goodfor you.
Things like getting enough sleepor drinking enough water and how
that kind of impacts your mentalhealth.
And the truth is, and one of thethings that we've also talked
about as an organization is thatyou're actually better at
creating creative output ormaking creative output.
Uh, when you keep the rest ofyour mental health in check.
(03:40):
The metaphor of the torturedartist I think is something that
a lot of creatives fight with.
And certainly in design school,they encourage all nighters or
do they encourage[inaudible] Mmm.
Drinking or other substances tokind of get the quote unquote
juices flowing.
But the truth is the statisticsbear out that you actually do
(04:02):
better when you kind of lead acleaner life.
So pay attention to what isright for you.
Um, and what makes you feelhealthy every day makes you
productive every day.
And I think that's somethingthat designers do care about,
but we don't always, if you'renot paying attention to it, you
stopped pretty quickly.
I know I, yeah, I buy a box ofcookies.
I eat a box of cookies typething
Kyle Hamer (04:23):
for, for folks that push, push the creative limits
or push to procrastinate to, towait for that, you know, that
brilliant creative spark.
There are probably, uh, habitsthat have been created that just
needs some, some coursing orcorrecting to help even further
find that, that creative utopiaor, or Nirvana.
(04:44):
Talk to us a little bit aboutthis, this program that you've
put together, what the elementsare and take us through, you
know, what are the things thatas a, as a creative or somebody
who once to be well but alsowants to be seen as a leader,
how to put those together asthe, at the program you built.
Jessica Stoddard (05:03):
What I did was I built the Cincinnati wellness
programming around 12 behaviorsthat are not just continually
identified but identified in thesame way in every study article
and book that I read[inaudible]like it's, it's kind of
interesting how psychology,neurology, sociology, and even
(05:24):
physiology.
Um, I'll come to the sameconclusions.
Um, and these aren't likeanything that I think are
revolutionary.
These things include doingphysical activities and getting
outside, getting enough sleep,de-stressing your diet, meaning
eating kind of fruits andvegetables, uh, eat plants, not
(05:46):
a lot.
Uh, is my metaphor limitingalcohol and caffeine.
And that's another one that Ithink is rough.
When I say substances are we notall guilty of abusing caffeine,
treating yourself well,cultivating and maintaining a
positive attitude, which I thinkis something that we've covered
specifically as creatives.
(06:07):
Talking to other people aboutyour problems, scheduling
downtime, keeping a journal,focusing on what you are good at
and asking an offering help andlearning how to practice
mindfulness.
Those are the things like ifit's 12 and that was kind of a
long list[inaudible] none ofthem are really surprising when
(06:30):
you think about it.
You're not like, Oh man, I'mcultivating a that positive
attitude I never knew that wouldhelp me feel better.
Kyle Hamer (06:37):
Well, I mean, but some of them, some of them are
easier to identify in others,right?
Like for example, Hey, it'spretty obvious if I look in the
mirror or step on the scale orjust deal with my own Catholic
guilt about being physicallyactive enough versus you may not
have the context of am Icultivating a positive
(06:58):
perspective?
What are some strategies aroundhelping begin to, to look at
these 12 and manage these 12 ona continual basis that is, that
is effective or make sense.
Jessica Stoddard (07:10):
You're right.
Like a, there are things thatare easier to identify as
others.
And when we're talking about asleaders, I kinda, you can leave
it up to yourself that a littlefacts like I'm, you're supposed
to get eight hours of sleep anight and you know, you know,
you shouldn't eat the entirepoint of cookies and, but it's
the ones that are harder todefine and ones that we need
(07:33):
reminders of is, for example,focusing on your strengths or
cultivating a positive attitudeis not beating yourself up.
Um, or not letting that Catholicguilt get to you if you do eat
the plate of cookies, you know,if you start with the most
active ones out of theseprinciples, I think one of the
first ones that I gravitatedtowards and I started putting
(07:54):
into practice was journaling.
And the journaling is basicallyby, it's, it's something that
you can do to focus on yourstrengths.
Then it's something you can doto cultivate.
And maintain a positiveattitude.
And I think it's also because weare born stilly storytellers,
(08:15):
creatives especially.
Mmm.
If you start a journal focusingon what you are thankful for,
you become a more thankfulperson.
And that's kind of what thestudying or what studies have
shown is journaling has thepower for you to start telling
your own story that you can makea point of being grateful and
(08:41):
recognizing how much could youhave to focus on, tells you that
you are living a good life,which I think most of us are.
Right.
So that would be kind of thefirst strategy.
Kyle Hamer (08:51):
So, so I have a question about that.
You know, you the, one of thestrategies, one of the elements
here is, is being mindful is theself-awareness that led you to
go to journaling first.
Would it, would it actually becategorized if you were being
mindful of, Hey, this feels likethe most natural first outlet or
this feels like the one thatwould bring you the most joy?
(09:12):
Were you being mindful beforeyou started journaling or was
it, Hey, you just sat there andyou're like, look, I know that I
need to get some of this stuffout.
I'm just going to write.
And then eventually it kind ofled to this self-realization of,
Hey, this is something thatbrings me a little bit of joy.
This helps me tell my story.
And this was a really good placefor you personally to start.
Which one was, it was a chickenegg.
What, what kind of led to that?
(09:32):
I need to journal moment foryou.
Jessica Stoddard (09:35):
Oh man.
Okay.
So it's actually, it's probably,it's definitely journaling was
one of the last things that Icame to, but I think when we're
discussing things that we canstart doing, like it's always
better to have Mmm.
In my opinion, if I'm givingreminders, it's, this is a thing
you can do versus this is amindset you can cultivate.
(09:58):
And I think I, uh, went througha particularly stressful period
at work.
And I think one of the things Istarted asking myself was, why
am I getting so upset in themoment?
And how can I stop myself fromgetting so upset?
And, uh, one of the things thatcame out of that was listened
(10:21):
more and talk less and Mmm.
In order to be a betterlistener, I'm writing more
things down.
Um, and then kind of readingstudies about gratitude and what
the story telling my how'sstorytelling mind works.
Um, that the story I want totell myself, Mmm.
(10:44):
If it's a good one, then what mybrain can do is it can
constantly rewrite a situation.
Um, I think probably the firstone I went to Mmm.
Was actually, uh, practicingmindfulness.
And what does that mean?
Because that is so hard to try.
(11:06):
And I've downloaded half a dozenapps and I like some more than
others, but a lot of times forme I'm like, well, I'd like to
be able to turn my phone off.
Um, so learning exercises forpracticing mindfulness was
probably the first one I wentto.
Um, and journaling was somethingthat came out of that.
(11:28):
Um, if that makes sense.
Can you talk a little bit more?
Kyle Hamer (11:32):
Yeah, no, I, yeah, I think it makes perfect sense.
I think that's, for those thatare listening, you're like, well
, journaling, I don't like towrite or I definitely don't like
to exercise, so there's no waythat I'll ever achieve wellness.
And I think at least to having,having known you through this
journey, your earliest part ofthe journey and then having
heard you talk through this, Ithink it feels like the first
(11:56):
step is self-awareness in thatmindfulness of, okay, I realize
what I want and what I'm gettingare not equal or I'm not sensing
, feeling, experiencing what Iwould expect.
Why.
And in your, you know, yourcheckpoint of 12 pieces becomes
somethings very interesting tostart working through.
Jessica Stoddard (12:20):
Definitely.
Definitely.
And the, the, the dissonance Ithink between, yeah, what you
want, which is to be happy mostof the time or at least content
and seeing myself be unhappy,I'm like, what can I do?
You know, if you Google, how canI be more happy?
I think practicing mindfulnessand I mean like for practical
(12:41):
terms, um, I think it'simportant to say that
mindfulness just means payingattention, you know?
And I think that started withwalks.
Um, and I found, uh, origamiparticularly helpful and any of
those things, when someone saysmindfulness, what they mean is
focusing on a singular task.
(13:02):
Um, that doesn't take, um, theamount of conflict.
There's no, when you're walkingand you notice the things on
your walk and you notice a treeand you notice the leaves, you
don't have time to debatewhether or not that tree has
given you an assignment thatmakes sense as a creative or
(13:24):
whatever other conflicts you'refeeling.
So it's really focusing in onthe individual moment.
[inaudible] and there areexercises that you can go
through that help with those.
And so then it was, um,exercises that help with those
that leads you to journalwriting.
And it leads you tounderstanding that cultivating a
(13:45):
positive attitude is somethingyou try and do.
Kyle Hamer (13:49):
See, it's, it sounds like you didn't arrive at
journaling right away.
It was something that happenedin, evolves for you through
experiencing and the things.
So first thing you said is, isHey, I'm not happy here what I
want in what my reality are.
They're not lining up.
Step two was as you said, Hey,I'm going to the walkaway or I'm
going to find something to focuson, like work to create moments
(14:12):
of clarity and then either getintrospective or outrospective
as it relates to what's reallyhappening in this moment.
What are, what are some of theother things that you began
exploring in NBN experiencing inyour own personal journey for
figuring out that, Hey, theseare the elements.
Like if you, if you figure outthere's, there's a, there's a
formula that works foreverybody.
(14:33):
What are some of the other areasthat you experienced and in and
you're like, yeah, no, thisisn't going to be something that
I'm going to spend a lot of timein.
Jessica Stoddard (14:42):
Yeah, no, that definitely, so some of those
came from reading.
Um, but I think another one thatI really got a deep personal
connection with, um, was askingfor an offering help, um,
because I'm a huge believer inbuilding community.
AIG a is a volunteerorganization.
(15:03):
Um, if you're going to serve onthe board, they asked for a
certain commitment of time.
Um, but it's really, it's a beltbuilding community among other
creatives.
There was something I wasalready passionate about.
Mmm[inaudible] I think I alwaysassumed that the offering help
was, uh, more important thenasking for help.
(15:29):
And when I kind of went throughcrisis, it was yes, first that,
okay, I need to walk away.
Oh, look how pretty this treeis.
And that gave me enough clarity.
But in asking for help, um, whatI learned was[inaudible] it
breaks down a barrier that I hadpreviously thought of hell
(15:51):
thought of asking for help issomething that[inaudible] other
people do.
Um, and I judged myself prettyharshly if I couldn't do
something or I can do somethingwithout help because asking for
help is kind of a sign ofweakness.
And I think a lot of creativestruggle with perfectionism, um,
(16:12):
that they also don't want to askfor help.
But criticizing and criticizingyourself doesn't actually help
you get better.
It just leads to making you feelresentful about responsibilities
you've turned on.
So when I did have to ask forhelp, what I'm doing, what I
(16:32):
realized I was doing and whatstudies have confirmed that
you're doing is I and confirmedthem with the person that I'm
asking help of, I trust you.
And it's that rewriting thatstory of I'm with someone I
trust.
And even if it's a small ask andyou get me a glass of water type
(16:53):
thing and bringing it intolarger asks, Mmm, what you're
doing is you're asking for whatyou want and not only are you
hopefully getting what you want.
And I will say I don't alwaysget what I want[inaudible] but
it's been life changing in termsof realizing that I can judge
myself less.
(17:14):
Um, and you know, it's, it'srealizing that leading a
community is more than offeringhelp and solving other people's
problems.
But it's understanding that myshared humanity means that I can
ask for help too.
So that was another, anotheraspect that I've experienced
personally that I can say helpedme beat a more wholehearted
(17:38):
life.
Um, certainly very helpful.
Kyle Hamer (17:42):
If I, if I can, if I can ask a couple of questions
related to that moment for you.
You know, you, you talk abouttrust and you talk about this,
this moment of being in a spaceas a creative and as this person
who's in a prominent positionwhere there's a high level of
(18:03):
criticism, what does it take foryou to trust in, in what was the
moment where you realized you'relike, Hey, I need to change
something because this isn'tworking for me.
Was there something specificallythat was going on at say work or
a project or what, what was themoment for you where it was
like, ah, I've got to get overmy fear so I can, I can get
(18:26):
through this particular moment?
Jessica Stoddard (18:30):
Um, well, I do have to give a ton of credit to
Bernay Brown here, um, because Ithink it was, uh, she's a
thought leader in wellness.
Um, she's written several booksmost recently, uh, dare to lead,
which as you said, I think cameout around this time last year.
Um, and she said, uh, that whenyou think that you are not
(18:57):
allowed to ask her help, whatyou're really doing is silently
judging everyone else who doesask for help.
And you know, like I kind of, Iwas like, Oh my God, I do that.
Oh my God, how did you know theperson who's written this book?
Mmm.
You know, clearly for millionsof people.
(19:19):
Um, and I was like, that isexactly what I do is I don't ask
for help because I'm afraid ofthe criticism that I'm going to
receive.
Um, and so from there, I thinkit was asking for more help from
the leaders in my life.
Mmm.
And if I'm going to ask forhelp, I think that led me to
(19:43):
giving feedback and how I needthat help.
Um, and looking at other talkson leadership and that really is
where leadership is, is, um,taking responsibility for other
people.
And, um, when I started askingfor help by, I have occasionally
not asked the correct questionor not asked, um, for help in an
(20:08):
inappropriate manner.
And then that goes into yourrevisiting.
Mmm.
How I'm giving feedback.
And that led me to thepracticing gratitude and taking
time, uh, at least weekly, ifnot daily, to say I'm grateful
for these things.
(20:28):
Because then when I'm takingstock of what I'm grateful for,
I know who I can ask[inaudible].
Building that level of people Ican trust and having more people
on your side I think is always agood thing.
And that mental story that youtell yourself.
Yeah,
Kyle Hamer (20:45):
it is really interesting to look at the
parallels between leadershipwithout authority, right?
So in the, in the thing that wehave to be careful with is
sometimes in American societyspecifically, Oh, if you're a
manager or a director or anexecutive, you have, you're a
leader.
Nope, you're a manager.
Right?
You, you've been given somelevel of authority.
(21:05):
But true leaders are folks thatbuild trust, they communicate
well, and then they instill somesort of common vision or
collective, uh, community fromthose around them.
Whether they are like-minded ornot that they, they have been
bestowed this because there's alevel of trust.
And I think it would be reallyhard for, for creatives to
(21:30):
expect to be able to lead orexpect to be able to be in a
leadership position, even evenwithout a title, if they can't
trust others and they can'ttrust themselves.
Was that kind of yourexperience?
Did you see your, your positionas a leader or your position
inside your, your workenvironment change as you began
embracing these, these differentprinciples and as you began
(21:51):
trusting more?
Jessica Stoddard (21:54):
Um, I definitely saw my position
changing.
Um, and that was some taking onmore responsibility but then
also leaning harder on myteammates.
Um, and I think it's interestingthat you mentioned that and I
was like, Oh, right.
I also noticed, um, we're, we'redancing around a difficult topic
and we'll continue dancing.
(22:14):
Um, but you know, that there wasa difficult position that you
came into how we met.
And I also remember a moment ofclarity that I was like, Oh,
tile is actually nice to us.
And, um, I think there were somepeople in the office who are
like, he's just putting on ashow.
(22:35):
And I was like, no.
And also if he's just putting ona show and being nice, well
what's the point of the showthat that seems like a ever, you
know, leadership style.
And I think that's an excellentpoint too.
You're leading versus managingis we had had a couple of
managers who were maybe not aswell suited because they had
gotten the role, but theyweren't Mmm.
(22:58):
Talking or they weren't backingup their actions with the role
they had gotten.
And so that was another kind of,if I'm generous with compliments
and I'm generous with mygratitude, I think that was
something that started helpingme lead other team members, even
though I'm not in an officialleadership role, I was taking
(23:19):
responsibility for the projectsand I was taking
responsibilities for the peoplearound me.
Um, and I think that's reallywhat influenced a lot of this
talk was these are the thingsthat I'm seeing and maybe I want
a leadership role.
Um, and that was certainly veryhelpful as well.
So thank you for that.
(23:40):
I forgot and I'm sorry I forgot.
Like, man, this guy.
Yeah.
[inaudible].
Yeah,
Kyle Hamer (23:48):
look, I, I, I appreciate the compliment.
I'm not great at thinking them.
I think every person is on theirown personal journey and, okay,
well I was happy to be a part ofit.
I'm very, very glad that youfound this space and I'm happy
that we can share it with otherpeople because I think that's
the, that's the trap.
The trap is, is that I am stuckin my station.
(24:08):
I'm stuck in a position where Ihave to be a perfect, I'm stuck
in my station where I have todeal with the sore throat
authoritarian or this dogmaticmanager that's driving me
insane.
And as a creative, that can feelvery stifling and very emotional
because, because there's so muchemotion moving through a
creative and a creative idea and, and, and being able to express
(24:30):
it and get it out.
And that's, it's challenging,right?
Because you express somethingand it doesn't come out right
and they're like, Oh crap.
Well now I'm being judged for itbeing incorrect, but I didn't
deliver it the way I want it to.
Whether that's visually or froma, from a, from an audio
standpoint or the way that itwas written.
You being able to go on thispath and figure out how to trust
(24:54):
yourself and B, um,introspective enough to, uh, be
mindful of the things that wereimportant to you.
Got you to a spot where you'relike, Hey, I realized that I
don't have to be confined to myunhappiness.
I don't have to be confined towhat is my station.
(25:14):
As a matter of fact, I can see aclear path to how I lead others.
If anything, I think this is astory of hope four for people
who are, who are out there thatare listening as it relates to
their own situation.
You don't have to be confined bywhat your current station is.
These, these elements forwellness can lead you to be very
(25:35):
much a leader, not only ofyourself, but of creatives and
others around you.
Just by kind of exploring,right?
Cause it wasn't, this was a,this was a two to three year
process, if I remember correct.
Not a, not an overnight thing.
Jessica Stoddard (25:50):
Definitely not an overnight thing now.
Um, and that is definitely, Ithink there's, um, there's a
balance.
Um, when you start taking stock,um, of, you know, as a creative,
I'm naturally inclined to askquestions of why couldn't this
be better?
Um, but the, you know, it's kindof flipping that around when I
(26:13):
did mine this research and notso much what, why couldn't this
be better?
But what could I do to make thisbetter?
And
Kyle Hamer (26:24):
yeah,
Jessica Stoddard (26:24):
there's, um, I've kind of, you say we're all
on our own personal journeys andI'm like, I wholeheartedly
agree, but I also am like, Idon't know that I could
personally feel fulfilled as acreative if I wasn't helping
other people on their journeysbecause we're all in this
together.
Um, very few people are a loanartists.
(26:49):
You know, it's another myth ofthe lone Wolf who is a brilliant
creative all by themselves.
Um, by paying attention to mycommunity and, uh, establishing
that trust with them.
It's really, it's enhanced mypractice as a creative.
Um, it's led to me asking morequestions as a critical thinker
(27:10):
and Mmm, certainly morechallenges.
But it definitely, I think it,it's given me a greater level of
satisfaction.
Um, and of course also a greaterlevel of calm because I think
that's, that's the one thing,the other thing that we keep
getting away from is like, Oh,we can be better leaders.
(27:31):
And I'm like, also though,scheduling downtime I think is
something that I have, uh, stillworking on.
Um, you know, it's, it's never,I'm not an expert.
I am just trying to remindmyself as often as I remind
other people.
But, um, especially this, thispast month, um, has been a
(27:52):
revisiting of that andscheduling downtime and taking
more walks.
Um, there are so many trees anduh, my new neighborhood, I just
moved and um, yeah, it's thatscheduling downtime and really
taking stock of everythingthat's outside of my creative
practice that I think is helpingme now.
Mmm, sure.
(28:13):
I bet.
Kyle Hamer (28:14):
Well, congratulations on giving him
that.
No, you're, I think you're, Ithink you're spot on.
Congratulations on the newplace.
That's, that's exciting, right?
Whenever there's change, there'salways disruption.
And that disruption can mess upthe, the Zen, if you will, or
the, the balance that we have.
And, and to your point, I thinkit's the, you cultivating the
skill of being mindful helpedyou find the, I mean my, my
(28:37):
perspective may be wrong, butcultivating that skill of being
mindful cause it's not, it'snot, we're not necessarily, we
are selfish, selfish, selfishcreatures.
Being mindful is a skill.
It is not something that we'reinnately born with.
I don't, I don't care how you'reborn.
I just don't think that that'strue.
And you, you may, you maybelieve differently, but that's,
it's something that youcultivated.
(28:58):
Did you not cultivate it?
Jessica Stoddard (29:00):
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (29:01):
This move would have been a whole lot more stressful.
Jessica Stoddard (29:05):
Uh, yeah.
And I think I probably put thosepractices by the wayside.
And it's that it's forgivingyourself and realizing that
cultivating a positive attitudemeans that you extend that
generosity yourself and you say,well, I didn't do this great,
but I don't need to be perfectin order to be a leader.
And I think that's something,you know, that a lot of people
(29:28):
who get really, really high uprealizes perfection is never the
goal.
Um, it's always doing your bestand there's, it's kind of
cyclical and I think, yeah,getting back into these
mindfulness practices and payingattention to all the good
things.
Mmm.
Leave me energized, you know,for starting another round of,
(29:49):
uh, wellness programming, um, inSeptember and starting to do
more good for the community.
And I'm sure I'm going to askfor lots of help of everyone in
my life and I'm looking forwardto it cause it gives them an
opportunity to delight me.
Mmm.
And I think I have a lot ofpeople that I can trust to do
that.
Kyle Hamer (30:10):
That's awesome.
Well, you know, I think trust,trust runs both ways and that's,
it's an important component.
Um, you know, I think one of thethings you touched on you, you
mentioned that the Browns, uh,there to lead book.
And one of the things that'sprobably the most poignant
story, at least for mepersonally in talking about how
we always have those moments ofbeing mindful.
(30:31):
And in the stress of life andthe craziness of life can
interrupt us.
Renee talks about coming home inthe middle of a speaking tour or
a, I'm writing the book that shewas writing and there was no
food and she yelled at herhusband for something and he
walked in and he looked at herand she was just super angry
(30:52):
and, and there was a, there wasa discussion back and forth and
he asked her like four simplequestions, a, you know, have you
ever had to do this or has thisever been an expectation?
Is this something that's everbeen, um, in, in all the time
we've been together as a server,something.
So where's this coming from?
And in the moment, in the heat,you have to read the book to get
the whole story.
(31:12):
But in the moment, in the heatof it, she, she had built the
skill enough to be mindful andintrospective and to look at the
relationship with her, with herhusband, for what it was, and
look at the emotion for what itwas.
And she realized that the, theemotion and the anger and the
response came from a position ofstress came from a position of
(31:33):
not communicating and notgetting the things that she
needed to be her best self andit was having an impact in that
moment.
And so,
Jessica Stoddard (31:42):
yeah,
Kyle Hamer (31:43):
eh, I don't know if you remember the story that I'm
talking about, but it's,
Jessica Stoddard (31:46):
I do.
Yeah.
Um, it was actually, it was amoment in which she talks about,
and I think that's another toolhere that, um, she's confirmed.
So I didn't use it in any of mypresentations, but it's
definitely something that Ithink is worth touching on.
Um, that, uh, the tool she usedwas, the story I'm telling
(32:08):
myself is that I'm not a goodwife for having the fridge
stocked and I'm not a good wifebecause I don't have any food
that's ready for people to eat.
And I'm already hungry and I'malready an, I expected to be fed
and I expected to do all thesethings.
Um, and it was a load ofexpectations that she was
(32:30):
putting on herself, um, versusasking for help.
And she also, because she wasnot asking for what she said she
was projecting onto her husband,was that he didn't think she was
a good wife.
And he, you know, and he waslike, I, and she's like, the
story I'm telling myself is thatyou think I am a bad wife for
(32:54):
not having the fridge stocked.
And it's a, it's a layer uponlayer of expectations.
And I kind of, I think most ofus have felt that way.
I've certainly come home tosimilar situations and been
like, Oh my God, I can't getthis done.
Why am I so bad at being human?
The wives on TV, uh, you know,or the husbands on TV can keep
their houses clean.
(33:15):
Why can't we?
And it's, it's a layer ofexpectation and that realizing
that sometimes we're our own,our own worst critic.
Um, and I think especially with,yeah, with creativity, you know,
they encourage criticism becausethat's how you get better work.
[inaudible] we're not projects.
(33:36):
People are not projects.
People are people.
And we deserve to be treated, uh, a bit more graciously than,
you know, the next sales slickyou make.
Kyle Hamer (33:46):
Yeah.
You look and Horton who hears a,who dr Seuss probably said it
the best.
A person is a person no matterhow small.
And I think, you know, itdoesn't matter how large you are
in an organization with title,what rank or how small you are
or how you feel.
You're right.
You're entitled to thosefeelings.
You're entitled to be trustedand you're, you're entitled to
not be dealing with expectationsthat are unrealistic in a
(34:09):
narrative that, that you can'tfulfill.
Jessica Stoddard (34:13):
Definitely.
Definitely.
Kyle Hamer (34:15):
So if we walk it back, we walked back to the
beginning and we kind of walkthrough, Hey, how do I, how do I
begin on this journey?
How do I, how do I startthinking about wellness in
helping me achieve, kind of walkus through what you know, what,
what are those steps?
What are those things that weneed to be, I think it starts
with mindfulness, but fromthere, what are the things that
(34:36):
we need to inventory and toolsthat we can use to begin being
our best selves as creatives?
Jessica Stoddard (34:45):
Oh gosh.
So, and I think that's why wecreated some of this programming
because, um, I, I'm a big uh,qualitative researcher.
Um, I like comparing the resultsMmm.
Of multiple studies and that'swhere these 12 areas of overlap,
(35:05):
like there is just, there is nodisputing certain things.
And I think, um, exercising isanother interesting one because,
uh, I think you mentionedearlier, um, if not during the
podcast and when we were talkingearlier that you were thinking
about it during your ride.
And I'm like, yeah, because whenyou're riding a bike, you have
(35:28):
the focus on putting one foot infront of the other know that's
another, it's a little bit ofmindfulness and this way, you
know, like exercising isn't justgood for losing weight and
adding that on our model ofperfection, you know, it's
exercising is good for yourheart.
It's good for getting thoseendorphins going.
(35:48):
You know, and these are thingsthat are just easy for studies
to confirm that like you can geta dopamine high or runner's high
and that's a nice healthy way toget your brain sort of addicted
to dopamine while it's good foryour heart.
And um, and then you have timeto think about whatever is
troubling you.
And even if you're not, maybejournaling physically with
(36:10):
writing things down, and I'm abig fan personally of post it
notes and Sharpie markers andthen just crumbled up at the end
of the month.
Mmm.
But if you've got that timewhere you're doing this
repetitive task of riding abicycle or running or dancing is
a, another thing that I do you,you're having that time to run
(36:33):
the stories through your head.
And as long as you're keepingtrack, I think that's probably
one of the first temps ofkeeping track.
If a thought you're experiencingis negative, it's helpful to
identify that thought as that'snot a very nice thing to think.
What would be a different way offraming this that would be more
(36:54):
grateful?
Mmm.
What is there to be grateful forin this situation?
What is the positive side ofthis situation?
And it sounds a little, Mmm[inaudible] you know me pretty
well, Kyle, I realize yourlisteners don't know me pretty
well, but I, I am not aPollyanna, um, ever.
And I think it, it sounds alittle Pollyanna and I promise
(37:18):
you if you start doing it thoughand you go actually, you know,
like it doesn't work 100% of thetime.
Like I'm like, ah, that lady whojust caught me off was wearing a
really pretty blast.
It doesn't work.
Um, you know, like it is, it is,it has to be a little
superficial and it doesn't work100% of the time, but it starts
(37:38):
getting you into practice, youknow?
And that's, that's thepracticing gratitude is really
what you're getting at when yousay journaling.
And I think exercising wouldprobably be another big tip
cause you know how much you'resupposed to, you know, that's
another easily Google, Google,like it's um, two and a half
hours of moderate activity aweek is what you kind of need to
(38:01):
keep your heart healthy and twoand a half hours, uh, moderate
activity is also two and a halfhours that you can spend
thinking positively.
And it's identifying a negativethought as a negative thought
and trying to turn it around ona grateful slot.
Um, as much as possible.
It's not, Oh, I can't, I can'tsay that it always works for me.
(38:24):
Um, but the more you do it, theeasier it becomes to, and I
think that's a Dale Carnegie, apiece of wisdom from the 1940s
is, uh, you know, if look ateveryone in the room and you
think of something nice that youlike about them, it makes it
easier to get along witheveryone in the room.
And so you can turn up, treatyour thoughts the same way.
Kyle Hamer (38:45):
Well, it's practice, right?
I mean it's, it's, you'rebuilding a habit, you're
building a skill.
The first time you put apaintbrush to canvas or the
first time you put a color tothe correct coloring book,
right.
There were no, there were norules and it wasn't the world's
greatest design or most colorfulpicture.
(39:07):
But over time you develop thatskill because you continue to
stay at it.
And the same thing is the same.
It's the same thing for your,your mind and being positive,
being mindful habits ofexercise, food, et cetera.
[inaudible] yeah.
Just has to be something thatyou are intentional about.
And then at some point it willstart to create outrageous joy.
(39:28):
And you do, you really not, Iwouldn't say entirely sure why,
but you'll, you'll start to missit when you stop doing it.
Jessica Stoddard (39:35):
Definitely.
Yeah.
And eventually you will be like,you know that.
Yeah, they did have a reallynice pair of sunglasses on even
though they cut me off andyou'll find yourself thinking
that genuinely like, man, that'smessed up.
So it's also kind of cool.
Right?
Um, yeah.
And, uh, and then it's, yeah,it's um, I'd say yeah, the other
(39:58):
I think other thing that Istruggle with, but the more I
practice at it is I'm getting asleep schedule and getting
enough sleep.
Uh, and that means saying atthis time every day, because I
know I'm going to get up at thesame time relatively every day,
um, give yourself an extra houron the weekends type deal.
(40:20):
Um, but saying I go to bed atmidnight and if it's after
midnight, I need to startlearning to say no.
And setting boundaries isanother huge part of this as
well.
Um, but setting up rituals whereyou can be mindful and I think a
lot of people, I personallydon't journal at the end of the
day cause I, I like to runmyself ragged and then be like,
(40:44):
cool, falling asleep.
It's midnight.
Um, but yeah, coming up with abedtime is another one that I'd
say is a, I think that you startdoing and once you start doing
it and yeah, bedtimes alsoseemed kind of like something
that belongs in, leave it toBeaver.
I think after design school Iwas like, well, bedtimes and
sleeping, those things are forlosers.
(41:08):
Um, but it's something that I[inaudible]
Kyle Hamer (41:10):
and learn.
Jessica Stoddard (41:11):
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (41:12):
Yeah.
Little kids, losers and littlekids with mommy's.
I don't have a moment.
I'm not a loser, so I'm going tostay up all day.
Jessica Stoddard (41:19):
I moved out of my parents' house 15 years ago.
Um, and now I no longer have abedtime, dammit.
And I can stay up all night, uh,drinking and eating popcorn.
All I want to.
Mmm.
But God, that did soundPollyanna.
Wow.
(41:40):
They up all night.
Kyle Hamer (41:41):
Yeah.
Jessica Stoddard (41:44):
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (41:46):
So here's what I have to say.
And then, yeah, I'll, I'llcomment on this right there.
There's a, there's a lot ofthings that when you're highly,
highly driven, you're highlycreative.
You're a highly[inaudible]independent and you see the
world a certain way.
There's a lot of things that youcan do, but just cause you can
(42:09):
do it.
Does it mean that you should?
And that that is a, that is alesson that I think for me has
been one of the personally, thelargest struggles because I, you
know, for, for me, my bigweakness as it came to things,
um, in, in trying to figure outhow to, how to lead even lead
myself was putting too much onmy plate.
(42:31):
I can't put that on my plate.
I can do that.
What should I, and, and when Igot good at saying no and
trusting myself enough to sayno, not being afraid that, you
know, I was going to miss out onsomething or I was going to let
somebody down, but trustingmyself enough to say, no, no, I
can't do that.
Or no, that shouldn't be done.
Or excuse me, my purse, prettyself purse permission to say
(42:53):
that is not something I shoulddo.
That mindfulness in and ofitself was a, was a huge
revelation, an empowering momentwhere I no longer felt, um, I no
longer felt the weight of everyproject that came across the
board.
I no longer felt the weight ofeverything being perfect.
I was, I gave myself permissionto say, yes, I can do this.
(43:17):
No, I should not.
And to be okay with that andthat, that I think for, for
people as you start to move upinto management, you start to
move up into leadershippositions.
It can be very challenging.
No is one of the most empoweringwords that you can put in your
vocabulary as long as you have ahuge trust relationship with the
(43:41):
people you're saying no to.
Jessica Stoddard (43:45):
No, I think that's, that's definitely, I
mean I almost feel like no is aversion of asking for help and
saying no, can you trust meenough that I will do this later
or I will find someone else whocan do it just as well.
Um, and I think no is also, it'spart of setting boundaries.
And it was interesting while youwere talking about that, I was
(44:05):
like, Oh that is anothercheck-in or another little
mental check that I've learnedto use is just because I can do
it.
Um, doesn't mean I'm going to doit.
And I think that's very helpful.
But the other thing I've startedasking myself is just because I
can do it now.
Does this mean I wanted to besomething I do in the future?
(44:28):
Yes, I could redesign thatPowerPoint.
And that's a bad example cause Idon't want to read an app
PowerPoint.
But yes, I could take someoneelse's work and spend 20 minutes
making it just that much betterin my opinion.
Um, but is that something I seemyself doing three years from
now?
Or would I rather get home ontime and see my husband and you
(44:53):
notice the trees?
Is it, what do you want fromyour life five years from now
and 10 years from now?
And just because you can do itright now doesn't mean you want
to do it for the rest of yourlife.
Um, and I think that's, that'shelpful for especially once you
get into leadership positions,um, and management positions
because yes, you can continuemanaging a team and doing all
(45:17):
the work you used to do that gotyou to be the manager of the
team.
But ultimately that's so muchwork that wouldn't it be better
to hire someone else to do it?
Um, yeah.
That's, I think that's, that'svery interesting that yes, I can
and I'm like, yeah, but do Iwant to be doing it five years
from now is also a good metricthat I've started using.
(45:40):
Cool.
Kyle Hamer (45:42):
Yeah.
Well look and I, you know, just,we've gone a lot longer than I
thought we went today and Ipromised you it'd be 20, 25
minutes and here we are.
I love your insight and I lovewhat I do with the AIG.
I said that wrong.
What is, what is the associationyou're a part of again?
Jessica Stoddard (45:59):
Uh, is AIG a more long time ago?
It used to stand for theAmerican Institute of graphic
artists, but they've since turntheir name into a symbol and
here we are.
Um, so they're just theassociates.
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (46:15):
I love the work that you're doing with that
community.
I love the work that you'redoing to help create new
leaders, new styles of thinkingin ultimately give people tools
to find happiness.
Last question.
Jessica Stoddard (46:30):
Hmm.
Kyle Hamer (46:30):
If, if somebody were starting out tomorrow and said,
Hey, I want to get goodperspective and help me
cultivate mindfulness or getstarted on this process.
Outside of maybe your slide deckin these following these 12
points or, or exploring these 12points, what's one book that
every creative wood should readin your opinion?
Jessica Stoddard (46:54):
Uh, I, I definitely, I still have to go
back to Bernay Brown and dare tolead was, it's a practical
handbook and I think herdefinition of leadership really
helped me as well.
Um, you know, she's saying allof these things better than you
or I can say that and thatshe's, she's able to get
vulnerable and that's one of herbig things.
(47:15):
But, um, she relates a lot ofthings I think a lot of
creatives go through, but a lotof intelligent people go through
, um, the cognitive dissonanceof our modern world and she lays
out some strategies for doingbetter.
Um, in addition to somestrategies for actually
practicing mindfulness, Imentioned noticing trees.
(47:36):
She actually goes throughmindfulness exercises in the
book and I, I've probably readit four times.
Uh,
Kyle Hamer (47:43):
that's awesome.
So
Jessica Stoddard (47:44):
not recommended a book more.
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (47:47):
Dare to lead by Renee Brown.
Well, again, Jessica, thank youso much for being on the show
today.
Uh, really enjoyed theconversation.
I think there's a lot of reallygood stuff here and um, we just,
we just appreciate you beingwilling to share your story and
give tips to other people on howto begin their journey.
Jessica Stoddard (48:07):
Oh, well, thank you for having me and
sharing your insights as well.
It's always a pleasure talkingto you and finding out something
new that I was like, Oh, Ididn't think of it that way.
That was good.
It was good to reminisce andgood to remember how far we've
come.
Yeah.
Kyle Hamer (48:24):
Every day is, every day is a step baby steps.
It's like, what about Bob?
And, uh, while that comedy wasfantastic, uh, bill Murray and
Richard Dreyfus, the, the oneliner that I take from it is, is
baby steps, you know, rightfoot, left foot, right foot,
left foot.
And for our listeners and folksthat are here, if you haven't
started, that's okay.
(48:44):
Give yourself permission to beexactly where you're at.
But don't wait.
Begin taking step now of whereyou are in achieving happiness,
because the only person that'sgoing to make you happy
ultimately is you, and you haveto find the form lineage.
So thanks for tuning in.
Looking forward to talking toyou next week.
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