March 18, 2020 • 32 mins
Everyone talks about having their dream career, but what does it really look like and how do you find it? We chat with the CEO of portfoliorocket.com, Lorn Greiff, to discuss how a marketer or creative person can find the career opportunity of their dreams.
In this episode, Loren and Kyle discuss:
- What's happening in the market and what can we do to land the perfect job?
- Tips for making a lasting impression
- Resume as a food label, do tell...
- Getting the job description decoded
- Ways to hack your job search for incredible results.
Make this a month to remember in your search for your the job of your dreams.
About Loren Greiff:
the Founder & President of Portfoliorocket.com a career accelerator coaching business on a mission to: elevate & empower designers and marketers to own and increase their influence as business leaders.
For more than 10+ years Loren has established herself as a top-performing design and marketing recruiter recognized for her ability to serve demanding (Fortune 100 to notable start-up) Clients, identify talent unicorns and drive excellence within the broadening digital design & marketing sectors.
Loren works with ambitious creatives and marketers who struggle to break into or pivot within the industry. She coaches them on how to market & value themselves and their talents, to communicate that value to others, to land their dream job. She shows them the fastest way to get to the work they love to do.
Interested in connecting with Loren?
Reach out to her: Loren@portfoliorocket.com
About Kyle Hamer:
A sales and marketing veteran with a deep understanding of strategy, digital marketing execution, and using technology to enhance brand impact. A hands-on leader with a passion for solving business challenges with process, operations, and technology. When Kyle's not tinkering on businesses, you'll find him spending time with those he loves, learning about incredible people, and making connections.
About Hamer Marketing Group:
Market growth for a new product or service is often limited by market distractions, unreliable data, or systems not built to scale. Hamer Marketing Group helps companies build data-driven strategies focused on client acquisition and sales development supported by the technology and operations necessary to create profitable growth.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kyle Hamer (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the summit, the podcast where we
bring you the knowledge andinsights from industry leaders
and trusted professionals.
No fluff, no double digitovernight growth games, just
real people having realconversations, getting real
answers.
We're talking to people who'vebeen there, done that.
And today we're very excited forour guests.
Lauren, dr Lauren, how are youtoday?
Loren Greiff (00:23):
I'm great.
Thank you so much.
Hi, I'm so excited to be on yourshow
Kyle Hamer (00:27):
today.
Lauren and I are going to[inaudible] talk about what
makes or breaks a candidate asthey find your life's work.
Lauren is the CEO and founder ofportfolio rocket.com and is
passionate about helping peoplefind their dream job.
Laura, tell us a little bitabout
Loren Greiff (00:42):
in your background.
Fantastic.
So thank you so much Kyle.
And yes, that is absolutely100%.
Um, my passion, my life's work,you know, a third of our lives
who spent at work, that's about90,000 hours for anybody who
hasn't been counting.
And what that means is that it'snot an option.
(01:03):
Two, not love your work.
And so many people findthemselves in, um, areas where
they may be frustrated, youknow, they're kind of going
through the motions.
And I am specifically, myspecific mission is really to
elevate and empower designersand marketers in particular to
own an increase their influenceas business leaders.
(01:24):
And um, really just been in thisfield for over 10 years, been in
the design and marketing areasfor over 25 as a recruiter.
Um, my, my only hesitation wouldreally stop me or you know, got
me choked up about my, my world.
And what I was doing is it wasvery transactional in nature and
(01:48):
the idea was to make aplacement.
And as a coach, I am thoroughlyinvested in really helping my
candidates, my clients inparticular navigate through
choppy waters at times.
Um, overcome a lot of the, thequestion marks that had been
holding them back, uh, andreally articulating how they're
(02:12):
experienced.
Even broad-based can really thewell positioned and pinpointed
to land the job that they'relooking for in a very
expeditious manner.
Kyle Hamer (02:24):
It's, uh, it's interesting because you, you,
you see a lot of stuff happeningin the market today and it seems
to me like your, your missionand what you're passionate about
is, is truly aligned with aunique niche.
Because marketers and creatives,we're really good about telling
other people's stories.
We're really good about sharingwhat the things are that are
happening.
But at the end of the day, whenit comes to telling our story or
(02:46):
putting ourselves in a positionfor winning, that can be very
challenging.
And, and so I think you probablyhave your hands full, but also
have some things that'll help usuncover, you know, what makes
breaks a candidate as
Loren Greiff (02:59):
they're looking for their dream career or their
dream job.
Absolutely.
Kyle Hamer (03:03):
So tell me a little bit about what you're seeing
going on in the market.
I mean, you're, you're doingthis all day, every day.
What's, what's going on in themarket seems right now that it's
a, it's a candidates market.
There's more jobs than there arecandidates.
What do you see?
Loren Greiff (03:15):
So there's, um, actually it's very kind of
paradoxical because everybody isaware that our unemployment rate
is at its record low.
We're about 3.6% as of lastOctober in terms of our
unemployment rate.
So that sounds like, you know,news that we want to cheer
about, right?
(03:36):
Everybody's super excited aboutthat.
And then the question becomes,so why am I not getting jobs?
Why am I not even moving in the,in the, in the process?
How is it that I'm not evengetting phone interviews?
And part of that is, um, basedoff of much more sophisticated
and um, highly rigorousscreening processes even before
(03:59):
you get to talk to somebody.
And what I'm referring to arethese things called ATS.
And for people that may or maynot know what that stands for,
that's called an applicanttracking system.
And that system is specificallydesigned to filter out
candidates who are not a goodfit for a, for a particular
(04:21):
role.
Um, there are also lots and lotsof other AI tools that are
coming into play as well.
But really what that means isthat if your materials, and I'm
saying materials specificallybecause it could be found on
LinkedIn, it could be found onyour resume or cover letter is
really missing key elements andor has things that are not in
(04:44):
their right syntax or order.
The chances of you actuallygetting through those filters
gets very small and you re youincrease the risk and reduce the
likelihood that you are going tobe found by the right company
with the right position thatyou're looking for.
Kyle Hamer (05:02):
But my, wait, let me interrupt you for just a second
here.
I mean, I, I recognize that,that the world is changing and
we're moving to software andwe're trying to help people do
more with less, but we're, whatyou're, what you're saying is
that for the majority ofcandidates that are out there,
people that are looking forthese jobs where they, they,
they care greatly.
They share the emotion, theyinvest heavily with what they're
(05:24):
doing and telling stories,specifically a marketing
creative that there's a computerthat's denying them about this
was the, this was the departmentof humans.
Like human resources.
Yeah,
Loren Greiff (05:33):
yeah.
Human element as kind of like,sometimes it's like the family
vacation.
That's an oxymoron.
It's like human resources thatlike sometimes lacks that
humanity.
Mmm.
And that is entirely true.
And, and, and honestly, just togive the benefit of the doubt,
it's in part because there is somuch candidate tonnage, no one
(05:54):
person, when you send thatresume through, it's an online
application or directly to anorganization.
There isn't, you know, a John orSally on the other end.
It's like listing up your resumeand going, Oh my goodness, I'm
so happy Kyle, to see yourresume.
You know, it's all, it's allautomated in order to really
(06:15):
come down to a very, very smallpercentage of people who are
able to get through that, those,that, that filter, that channel.
Mmm[inaudible].
So yes, it's really vital, um,that your resume and any of your
materials are in sync with theway that the algorithms and the
(06:36):
way that these applicanttracking systems can work.
It's interesting because as youthink about unemployment being
so low, so you have a lot ofpeople that are in current
positions that are looking for anew position and they think, Oh
man, I really want to work forthis company.
I really, really want to spendmy time, I'm making a career
switch.
Whether it's a okay and theupward mobility option or they
(06:59):
want to try a new industry, what, what are the things that if I
have a dream job, don't justsubmit my resume.
What do I need to have in place?
How do I, how do we start tobeat the AI in the, the
applicant tracking system?
What do I do?
Cause I would've thought that,Hey, all I have to do is just
submit my resume and a coverletter.
Maybe call the hiring manager or, or the person that posted the
(07:23):
the job and we will at least bein conversation.
But that would be my reality.
So we start to get around that.
So you know, the, there are alot of um, kind of workarounds
to this and the, the most, um,the most efficient and effective
(07:43):
way to do that.
It's first of all two, make surethat you are looking at the job
description printed out.
I mean I definitely would sayprinted out and start
highlighting the real key wordsthat are there.
And I want you[inaudible] toimpress that there is a
hierarchy to how those key wordsare laid out.
(08:03):
There's nothing accidental inthat job description.
So as you going through it andif it says for example, um, I'm
just making this up, but if itsays like, must be highly
detailed detail oriented, youkeep seeing that word over and
over and over again and you'renot putting that in your resume,
(08:25):
then how are you expected to befound?
So part of it is that Simon saysgame of being able to, okay,
what is on the re, what is inthe job description needs to be
echoed in the materialsthemselves strategically in a
similar hierarchy.
And then clearly if you have,uh, access to a resume writer
(08:51):
who is specialized, whospecializes in this, by all
means.
I, I do, I work with somebodyvery, uh, very closely who has
this expertise.
If anybody wants to reach out tome after this, I can refer her
to you.
Um, and she is amazing and she'sable to put the resume in such a
vein that age is a, an idealmatch without it sounding
(09:16):
forced.
So, um, I think that there hasto be some nuance there too.
Kyle Hamer (09:21):
Well, and you know, I think one of the things is
when you and I, you and I firstmet the things that you talked
about that that was interestingas you kind of have a process
and it's a very common senseprocess for how you would
structure things and look atthings specifically to your
resume in order to be, to beeffective in order to be
considered.
And can you tell us a little bitmore about what you called the
food label?
Loren Greiff (09:41):
Absolutely.
This is, this is one of myfavorite quote unquote hacks.
And I use this not just forresumes.
I also use it for folks who areso rod based in their experience
that, and they say to me thingslike, yeah, well you know I also
do this and this and this and I,you know, by the way, and what
(10:02):
ends up happening in thatconversation, it sounds like
you're Jack of all trades,master of none, which could be a
huge concern for hiring managersand other other decision makers
who may, it may in fact want isspecialist's number one.
But what really unfortunatelycomes across that nobody
(10:23):
necessarily is going to tell youis it makes me sound desperate
because it sounds like, and I dothis and I do this and I do this
and it's, and it's compensationrather than having ownership of
your expertise.
So here's where the food labelreally comes in.
And please, I apologize, this isa horrible analogy, but it will
(10:43):
make perfect sense.
So when you go to the grocerystore and you are buying
spaghetti sauce for your pastadinner tonight and you reach on
the shelf and you pull out thatjar, you know whatever it is,
tomato sauce, spaghetti sauce,and you don't see tomatoes is
your first ingredient.
You know intuitively you'reputting it back unless less your
(11:06):
experience is outline and set upin the hierarchy of which you
do.
You are leaving decision makers[inaudible] open reign to figure
out what you do without youtelling them.
So your job as an applicant oras a candidate is to go for your
own personal food label.
(11:28):
Get honest about where your,where are your top skills are
and other things that support it.
For example, we know that tomatosauce is going to have garlic in
it.
That's a supporting point.
Do the spaghetti sauce.
However, if you see garlic isyour first ingredient, you're
not buying it.
So there are certain assumptionsthat you're going to be able to
(11:51):
make.
If you are a performancemarketing person, you don't need
to put your Google analytics asyour first point.
You know the people, theexpectation is that you would
have that built into yourexperience.
So it's very important to laythat out in a logical fashion
because hiring managers areliteral.
(12:13):
They are not interested infiguring things out.
There's too much work to bedone.
If you make it through a filter,fantastic.
Now it's time to seal the deal.
So you said hiring managers areliteral.
What do you mean by that?
So they are literal in the sensethat Mmm, they are not going to
(12:35):
be interpreting your resume.
What you put out there is whatthey are going to take at face
value.
You're not going to be able toread between the lines to be
able to say, Oh, I think thatthis person is highly adaptive.
I think this person would doreally well in an ambiguous work
environment.
(12:56):
This is somebody who reallyunderstands highly matrix
organizations.
It's your job to spoon feed itto them in a way that they are
able to walk away with a veryclear, succinct picture.
I remind candidates of this allthe time.
Your resume arrived long beforeyou do[inaudible].
(13:19):
It's there to tell your story,your professional story, and you
cannot leave interpretation upto anybody else because
otherwise it's just too random.
And so your job is to really getright with that before you just
fire it off because that bigblack hole can be very
(13:40):
frustrating.
I think that there are a lot ofcandidates that I speak with who
are very frustrated right nowwith, they can't, either they
can't get it through the ATS orthey get through and they find
out that the way that the jobwas built wasn't there, that it
was a ghost job.
Well the next thing is that Ithink you wanted to share, we
(14:01):
wanted to talk about was, isreally understanding the job
description had to coat it.
I know you talked about itearlier, getting down, so you
know with a highlighter, but nowthat we have the backdrop of the
food label, how do we reallydecode a job description to, to
get our resume to get through atleast the first filter.
Or maybe you get a phoneinterview.
What are the, what are the tipsthere to the job description?
(14:22):
So I, I have a, um, a warningout there with job descriptions
because job descriptions don'thave a timestamp.
So we don't know how old thatjob description is.
We don't know if it's a placeholder for a live job or ghost
job as you called it.
Um, we don't know necessarilyif, you know, somebody wrote it
(14:43):
and doesn't have all theinformation.
It's the only information thatyou have to go on.
So, you know, allowing there tobe some grace around that, fine.
You're going to do the best thatyou can with the job description
itself, but then you're going tostart to marry it and partner it
with other information that youknow about the company.
(15:04):
So one of the things that'sreally important is if you
understand the size of thecompany, how, how their, how
their organization is laid out.
A fortune 500 marketing manager,more than likely is going to
have direct reports, is going tohave some, some kind of support
staff may have resources.
(15:26):
Maybe a required to have aownership over a P and L
marketing manager is smallstartup or uh, uh, a smaller
company is wearing like 20different hats.
They may not have any supportsystem, they may not have
resources, they may not havedirect reports.
(15:48):
Um, their performance metricsmay be very poorly defined.
[inaudible] and so understandingthose different environments can
help fill in the picture of whatthe job description is not
sharing.
So using, using your, yoursleuthing techniques for sure.
(16:08):
Um, the other kind of hack thatI so suggest as as partner to
that is I'm signing up forGoogle alerts.
Mmm.
Google alerts is real timerelevant information that can
help you.
Again, um, it's like a clue.
It's like a clue finder, right?
(16:28):
It helps to tell you about thehealth and wellbeing of a
company.
Um, I have a can, a client thatI'm working with, she's
interviewing at CVS and I toldher yesterday, by all means,
make sure that before you go tothe interview, you go to at
least three different stores.
I want you doing store checksand seeing how they're handling,
(16:50):
you know, our Corona viruspandemic.
[inaudible] really have a pointof view on that so that when she
goes to apply or when she goesto her interview, um, she's able
to, you know, really, reallystand out as somebody who is
[inaudible] who is informed.
Um, and back to, back to thelast, um, kind of decoding, you
(17:14):
know, tip that I would offer islook for your first connection,
second connections on LinkedInfor those who have worked there
before.
Because they can tell you ifthis is a company that, uh, was
very supportive of them.
If their management was, youknow, if they had pressed and
(17:35):
valued their management or ifthey, um, thought otherwise.
But you want to talk to peoplewho have actually been there
just to get a little bit of acleaner read,
Kyle Hamer (17:51):
finding a job or finding your, the job of your
choice.
Your dream job is a challenge.
I mean it requires you have theright skills and talents and
personality.
The company has the right demandfor your skills and talents.
And then has the,
Loren Greiff (18:09):
some of the things you've shared today,
Kyle Hamer (18:11):
Mmm.
The Google alerts set up, the[inaudible] decoding the job
description, the creating a, youknow, thinking of yourself as a,
as a food label.
Those things are really great atcreating a base.
But are there other things, wedon't see that as our common,
there are ways to maybe hack orshortcut or at least accelerate
(18:35):
finding that that ideal fit forboth you culturally as well as
you know, the opportunities thatmay not be coming through on
LinkedIn or may not be on glassdoor.
You may not see on indeed winter.
Loren Greiff (18:45):
What are, what are other things that you could do
to find that dream position?
Sure.
I mean I, aye I'm going to callthis out as plain and clear as I
can.
There is no one, uh, there is noone solution.
This is that this is not a, um,I just do this one thing.
I've impressed candidates, um,throughout my career that you
(19:08):
don't eat one thing everymorning for breakfast.
You need a up and tire, um,range of options and that's the
same way that you go about yourjob search.
Not reliant on any recruiter isthat reliant on LinkedIn.
It needs to be a combination of,of all of these things.
I also, I'm really believe[inaudible] support my clients
(19:34):
in so far as having them takesome ownership and power over
their search by identifying atleast 10, maybe even 15
companies, their dreamcompanies, companies they
respect is a value, um, placesthat are really meeting their
criteria and, and start with theGoogle alerts and build some
(19:59):
connections through LinkedIn.
And even if it's just somethingso, so benign as setting up a
coffee with those people, youhave no idea, um, where they
will go.
Where that, where thatopportunity will go.
People want to hire greatpeople.
Um, so, you know, as with thatkind of passion and forward
(20:25):
thinking, um, strategy, it iscertainly a viable way to land
yourself a dream job.
In fact, I've done it myselfthat way,
Kyle Hamer (20:35):
but Lauren, I'm not under Derrius.
I'm not, I'm not an extrovert.
I'm an introvert.
How do I, how do I come out ofmy shell because I like to
create, I don't thinknecessarily enjoy meeting new
people or putting myself there.
I'm afraid of being rejected.
How do I work through that?
What are things that I can do toovercome that or, or, and work
through those challenges that Ihave?
Loren Greiff (20:56):
Yeah.
Um, this is, this is a verycommon Mmm issue, especially a
rungs.
Designers and marketers whothink of themselves as, you
know, strong communicators andthey're out there with their
materials all the time and, youknow, making apps and websites
and all that.
Mmm.
No, this is a shameless selfpromotion.
(21:18):
You can certainly work with acoach, um, and they can walk you
through some of these challengesfor sure.
Uh, I have clients that say tome, gosh, if I had only known
that this was available before,Oh my God, I wouldn't have been
suffering for so long.
So yes, it's okay to ask forhelp.
(21:38):
My goodness.
It's like this is your job we'retalking about is that like, it's
not about like, you know, callplumber when you have issues
with your[inaudible] your pipesand this is your job where you
are earning your livelihoods.
So yes, it's okay to ask forhelp.
And um, as far as, as far asbeing an introvert, Mmm know I
(21:59):
think it's baby steps, but Ithink you have to be comfortable
getting uncomfortable.
I mean, it's tough love, sorryto say that, but it really is
the truth.
Start mingling, start talking topeople.
And LinkedIn, I have to say isprobably one of the safest ways
for you to build connectionswithout necessarily having to,
(22:20):
you know, go to a networkingmeeting if that's what your,
what your kind of biases, youknow, you get to, you get to
meet with other thought leaders.
Um, even strike up an instantmessage conversation.
I've been doing thatconsistently and I've found it
to be shored narrowly welcomingand supportive.
So, um, I hate to say this, butthere's really no excuse.
Kyle Hamer (22:44):
Well, I think the, the, you know, the thing that,
um, a lot of people who areintroverted don't necessarily
think about is, is that there'sa way to craft and tell your
story and showcase your skills,um, that may feel irreverence,
may feel like it's flipping this, um, flipping it, uh, the
normal process on its head.
I mean, the person that we haveon the show a couple of weeks
(23:04):
ago, Bree, she, she did a wholenew now hiring my new boss.
So it's like, Hey, I'm going todo marketing for myself and
those companies that areinterested in what I am, what am
I about beyond the resume canapply to potentially hire me?
Which was, which was a reallycreative and natural way of
(23:26):
expressing who she is.
And, and I think one of thethings that oftentimes job
seekers forget is it, that we'relooking for people who are
authentic, not just[inaudible]cogs in the wheel, right?
Like there's some authenticyauthenticity.
And uniqueness you bring to the,
Loren Greiff (23:46):
to the table that should show up in your food
level, that should show up inyour, in your submissions, that
should show up in how you'reinterviewing or, or what you're
doing.
[inaudible] it should beprevalent so that they're not
getting, what do you think theywant the you to be.
And so you have this facadeyou've got to have the whole
time, but you get to be yourtrue authentic self as you move
(24:08):
into this career of dreams.
I hundred percent agree.
I fully applaud Bree land.
Um, and I love what she did.
I am, um, a practitioner ofzigging where other people's ag.
So the strategies that I shareand offer, um, our completely
untraditional and there's areason for it.
(24:30):
Um, because if you keep doingthe same thing over and over
again, you're going to wind upwith a pack and sitting in the
no pile.
And so I don't want to see thatfor anybody, especially the
folks that I'm working with.
But I think that the, it's thereal thing that you touched on
is that, okay, you know,crafting your story.
And that that includes yourtalking points too.
(24:52):
So all of these elements need tobe in alignment.
Your resume[inaudible], yourLinkedIn.
If you are a designer, yourportfolio and you're
interviewing style and technique, all need to be aligned.
They all need to say the samething in a little bit of a
different way.
And you articulating that reallysolidifies your message.
(25:14):
And it really, it really speaksto your confidence that you know
who you are and that isauthentic.
Mmm.
Interviewing is not aperformance.
Isn't that a performance actingopportunity?
This is an opportunity forpeople to see the person that's
going to be working there day inand day out and for you to be
doing the same.
(25:35):
Okay?
So you know when you are lookingaround and you're interviewing
and talking to people, thatradar should be, she'd be on it,
you know, applicable to you aswell.
All right, so we've, we'vetalked about how to prepare
ourselves because the jobdescription, how to be our true
authentic selves.
Now let's talk about ways to actthe interview or at least ways
(26:00):
to make sure that we're the mostprepared.
I mean you just touched onbullet points, talking points,
having it tied together, butother things should we be aware
of heading into an interview?
Absolutely.
So, um, you know, hopefully youhave a little bit of lead time
as you are getting those Googlealerts to prepare.
(26:23):
And I, I stress this, I cannotstress this enough.
Tough questions, toughquestions.
Mmm, nothing that is Mmm.
Kind of a, an obvious question.
You can use those after you'vedone your hard questions like uh
, saying, well, you know, how doyou like it here?
What don't you like about yourjob?
(26:44):
What do you like about it?
Those are kind of throwawayquestions.
I'm talking about questions thatdemonstrate a level of, um,
strong research.
And when you were getting thoseGoogle alerts, those are hot
beds.
You to start formulating some ofthose questions and really
understanding you should be alsofollowing the threads of the
(27:06):
link of LinkedIn folks who youknow, you're going to be
interviewing.
Um, last night I was, I washelping this client prepare.
I found I found a 20, 20 a studythat they just released.
And that again is fodder forcoming up with some really great
questions.
Um, additionally that thoseLinkedIn, those Google alerts
(27:29):
can also help you to reallyunderstand some of the, um, the,
the, the financial wellbeing ofthe company if they are going
through layoffs.
DTCs right now are struggling.
They're struggling.
These direct consumer brands arestruggling.
So what does that mean?
(27:50):
It means that they're higher.
That even though it's a sexyplace to work, yeah, they may
not be that stable and you wantto know that before you're
interviewing and you want to beable to ask questions like, wow,
I understand that there's been alot of turnover or there's been
a lot of layoffs.
Please explain that.
Um, I want to understand what'sgoing on.
(28:11):
What do you attribute that to?
Or on the opposite end, ifyou're getting Google alerts and
you find out that an agency or acompany just wanted big piece of
business, wow, you guys arehiring, you guys are staffing
up, right?
Cause I heard about this bigwin.
How is it impacting your hiringdecision?
Does that mean that you want tobring people on sooner rather
than later?
(28:32):
Um, so that can kind of give yousome clues and tips, but really
also, Mmm.
I would suggest that you asklike you work there, make sure
you are signing up for anynewsletters.
If there's an app that theyhave, download it and look at it
by that product and service.
You know, like they used to say,be the ball, be be the employee,
(28:56):
you know, drive that, drive thathome and you will find like lots
of traces for you to come upwith some compelling questions.
So three to five really strongquestions.
If you're interviewing on apanel,[inaudible] know who those
people are and make thosequestions specific to that
person.
(29:16):
That way you've done yourresearch so you're not asking
the head of engineering the samequestions as you're asking the
person who's the head ofmarketing and you're really
targeting those questions in avery strategic way.
That's really, really valuablein my life.
And I don't think I've everreally sat down, been prepared
(29:40):
for each individual person
Kyle Hamer (29:41):
on a panel.
There may be hard questions[inaudible] you're good at
asking or you can ask these thatare relative to the role that
are hard questions.
The business may not, uh, fullyappreciated, fully understand
yet as you bring value to theorganization.
But I have not ever been in apanel where each panel person
got a different question.
And I think that's really,really sound advice.
Loren Greiff (30:04):
I want to add one other, one other thing to this
that I think is also veryimportant.
It's not, it's not necessarilyfor every company.
You can never go wrong.
If you want to give yourself a[inaudible][inaudible] interview
kind of torture test.
I'm using the stars methodology.
So if you don't know what thestars stars methodology is, um,
(30:24):
big companies like Amazon, Iknow Purina uses it.
Um, I could go on and on, butreally a lot of these companies
use this and it stands forsituations, tactics, um, actions
and results.
So you can use, you can usethat.
Go online.
You'll be able to find a, it's agrid.
It can be exhausting.
(30:44):
Um, so just FYI, but it's verythorough and it will force you
to come up with a lot of thoseanswers.
Kyle Hamer (30:52):
That's fantastic.
Cool.
Laura and I think a lot of thethings for people who are
looking for their career changeor their next dream job that
we've been giving them, justnuggets of great information.
[inaudible] fantastic resources.
So I really, really thank youfor being so incredibly gracious
and open with what you'veprovided today.
(31:14):
If somebody wants to get incontact with you or wants to
understand what a pocketportfolio is all about,
portfolio rocket portfoliorocket is all about what, what
is the best way to get ahold ofyou?
What's the best way to getinvolved with Warren?
Loren Greiff (31:30):
I'll make it real easy.
You can always reach out to me.
I spell my name Loren, L.
O.
R E N.
um, and my last name, Grice, G.
R.
O.
D.
I.
F.
F.
Kyle Hamer (31:39):
you can find me certainly on LinkedIn or just
reach out to me directly atLoren, L.
O, R E N F portfolio rocket.com.
We really, really thank you verymuch for being here today.
Thank you for sharing all ofthese tips and we look forward
to watching you help many peoplefind the career of their dreams
(32:02):
in the future.
I'm all in.
Thank you so much, Kyle.
Our pleasure.
Hello and welcome to the summit, the podcast where we
bring you the knowledge andinsights from industry leaders
and trusted professionals.
No fluff, no double digitovernight growth games, just
real people having realconversations, getting real
answers.
We're talking to people who'vebeen there, done that.
And today we're very excited forour guests.
Lauren, dr Lauren, how are youtoday?
Loren Greiff (00:23):
I'm great.
Thank you so much.
Hi, I'm so excited to be on yourshow
Kyle Hamer (00:27):
today.
Lauren and I are going to[inaudible] talk about what
makes or breaks a candidate asthey find your life's work.
Lauren is the CEO and founder ofportfolio rocket.com and is
passionate about helping peoplefind their dream job.
Laura, tell us a little bitabout
Loren Greiff (00:42):
in your background.
Fantastic.
So thank you so much Kyle.
And yes, that is absolutely100%.
Um, my passion, my life's work,you know, a third of our lives
who spent at work, that's about90,000 hours for anybody who
hasn't been counting.
And what that means is that it'snot an option.
(01:03):
Two, not love your work.
And so many people findthemselves in, um, areas where
they may be frustrated, youknow, they're kind of going
through the motions.
And I am specifically, myspecific mission is really to
elevate and empower designersand marketers in particular to
own an increase their influenceas business leaders.
(01:24):
And um, really just been in thisfield for over 10 years, been in
the design and marketing areasfor over 25 as a recruiter.
Um, my, my only hesitation wouldreally stop me or you know, got
me choked up about my, my world.
And what I was doing is it wasvery transactional in nature and
(01:48):
the idea was to make aplacement.
And as a coach, I am thoroughlyinvested in really helping my
candidates, my clients inparticular navigate through
choppy waters at times.
Um, overcome a lot of the, thequestion marks that had been
holding them back, uh, andreally articulating how they're
(02:12):
experienced.
Even broad-based can really thewell positioned and pinpointed
to land the job that they'relooking for in a very
expeditious manner.
Kyle Hamer (02:24):
It's, uh, it's interesting because you, you,
you see a lot of stuff happeningin the market today and it seems
to me like your, your missionand what you're passionate about
is, is truly aligned with aunique niche.
Because marketers and creatives,we're really good about telling
other people's stories.
We're really good about sharingwhat the things are that are
happening.
But at the end of the day, whenit comes to telling our story or
(02:46):
putting ourselves in a positionfor winning, that can be very
challenging.
And, and so I think you probablyhave your hands full, but also
have some things that'll help usuncover, you know, what makes
breaks a candidate as
Loren Greiff (02:59):
they're looking for their dream career or their
dream job.
Absolutely.
Kyle Hamer (03:03):
So tell me a little bit about what you're seeing
going on in the market.
I mean, you're, you're doingthis all day, every day.
What's, what's going on in themarket seems right now that it's
a, it's a candidates market.
There's more jobs than there arecandidates.
What do you see?
Loren Greiff (03:15):
So there's, um, actually it's very kind of
paradoxical because everybody isaware that our unemployment rate
is at its record low.
We're about 3.6% as of lastOctober in terms of our
unemployment rate.
So that sounds like, you know,news that we want to cheer
about, right?
(03:36):
Everybody's super excited aboutthat.
And then the question becomes,so why am I not getting jobs?
Why am I not even moving in the,in the, in the process?
How is it that I'm not evengetting phone interviews?
And part of that is, um, basedoff of much more sophisticated
and um, highly rigorousscreening processes even before
(03:59):
you get to talk to somebody.
And what I'm referring to arethese things called ATS.
And for people that may or maynot know what that stands for,
that's called an applicanttracking system.
And that system is specificallydesigned to filter out
candidates who are not a goodfit for a, for a particular
(04:21):
role.
Um, there are also lots and lotsof other AI tools that are
coming into play as well.
But really what that means isthat if your materials, and I'm
saying materials specificallybecause it could be found on
LinkedIn, it could be found onyour resume or cover letter is
really missing key elements andor has things that are not in
(04:44):
their right syntax or order.
The chances of you actuallygetting through those filters
gets very small and you re youincrease the risk and reduce the
likelihood that you are going tobe found by the right company
with the right position thatyou're looking for.
Kyle Hamer (05:02):
But my, wait, let me interrupt you for just a second
here.
I mean, I, I recognize that,that the world is changing and
we're moving to software andwe're trying to help people do
more with less, but we're, whatyou're, what you're saying is
that for the majority ofcandidates that are out there,
people that are looking forthese jobs where they, they,
they care greatly.
They share the emotion, theyinvest heavily with what they're
(05:24):
doing and telling stories,specifically a marketing
creative that there's a computerthat's denying them about this
was the, this was the departmentof humans.
Like human resources.
Yeah,
Loren Greiff (05:33):
yeah.
Human element as kind of like,sometimes it's like the family
vacation.
That's an oxymoron.
It's like human resources thatlike sometimes lacks that
humanity.
Mmm.
And that is entirely true.
And, and, and honestly, just togive the benefit of the doubt,
it's in part because there is somuch candidate tonnage, no one
(05:54):
person, when you send thatresume through, it's an online
application or directly to anorganization.
There isn't, you know, a John orSally on the other end.
It's like listing up your resumeand going, Oh my goodness, I'm
so happy Kyle, to see yourresume.
You know, it's all, it's allautomated in order to really
(06:15):
come down to a very, very smallpercentage of people who are
able to get through that, those,that, that filter, that channel.
Mmm[inaudible].
So yes, it's really vital, um,that your resume and any of your
materials are in sync with theway that the algorithms and the
(06:36):
way that these applicanttracking systems can work.
It's interesting because as youthink about unemployment being
so low, so you have a lot ofpeople that are in current
positions that are looking for anew position and they think, Oh
man, I really want to work forthis company.
I really, really want to spendmy time, I'm making a career
switch.
Whether it's a okay and theupward mobility option or they
(06:59):
want to try a new industry, what, what are the things that if I
have a dream job, don't justsubmit my resume.
What do I need to have in place?
How do I, how do we start tobeat the AI in the, the
applicant tracking system?
What do I do?
Cause I would've thought that,Hey, all I have to do is just
submit my resume and a coverletter.
Maybe call the hiring manager or, or the person that posted the
(07:23):
the job and we will at least bein conversation.
But that would be my reality.
So we start to get around that.
So you know, the, there are alot of um, kind of workarounds
to this and the, the most, um,the most efficient and effective
(07:43):
way to do that.
It's first of all two, make surethat you are looking at the job
description printed out.
I mean I definitely would sayprinted out and start
highlighting the real key wordsthat are there.
And I want you[inaudible] toimpress that there is a
hierarchy to how those key wordsare laid out.
(08:03):
There's nothing accidental inthat job description.
So as you going through it andif it says for example, um, I'm
just making this up, but if itsays like, must be highly
detailed detail oriented, youkeep seeing that word over and
over and over again and you'renot putting that in your resume,
(08:25):
then how are you expected to befound?
So part of it is that Simon saysgame of being able to, okay,
what is on the re, what is inthe job description needs to be
echoed in the materialsthemselves strategically in a
similar hierarchy.
And then clearly if you have,uh, access to a resume writer
(08:51):
who is specialized, whospecializes in this, by all
means.
I, I do, I work with somebodyvery, uh, very closely who has
this expertise.
If anybody wants to reach out tome after this, I can refer her
to you.
Um, and she is amazing and she'sable to put the resume in such a
vein that age is a, an idealmatch without it sounding
(09:16):
forced.
So, um, I think that there hasto be some nuance there too.
Kyle Hamer (09:21):
Well, and you know, I think one of the things is
when you and I, you and I firstmet the things that you talked
about that that was interestingas you kind of have a process
and it's a very common senseprocess for how you would
structure things and look atthings specifically to your
resume in order to be, to beeffective in order to be
considered.
And can you tell us a little bitmore about what you called the
food label?
Loren Greiff (09:41):
Absolutely.
This is, this is one of myfavorite quote unquote hacks.
And I use this not just forresumes.
I also use it for folks who areso rod based in their experience
that, and they say to me thingslike, yeah, well you know I also
do this and this and this and I,you know, by the way, and what
(10:02):
ends up happening in thatconversation, it sounds like
you're Jack of all trades,master of none, which could be a
huge concern for hiring managersand other other decision makers
who may, it may in fact want isspecialist's number one.
But what really unfortunatelycomes across that nobody
(10:23):
necessarily is going to tell youis it makes me sound desperate
because it sounds like, and I dothis and I do this and I do this
and it's, and it's compensationrather than having ownership of
your expertise.
So here's where the food labelreally comes in.
And please, I apologize, this isa horrible analogy, but it will
(10:43):
make perfect sense.
So when you go to the grocerystore and you are buying
spaghetti sauce for your pastadinner tonight and you reach on
the shelf and you pull out thatjar, you know whatever it is,
tomato sauce, spaghetti sauce,and you don't see tomatoes is
your first ingredient.
You know intuitively you'reputting it back unless less your
(11:06):
experience is outline and set upin the hierarchy of which you
do.
You are leaving decision makers[inaudible] open reign to figure
out what you do without youtelling them.
So your job as an applicant oras a candidate is to go for your
own personal food label.
(11:28):
Get honest about where your,where are your top skills are
and other things that support it.
For example, we know that tomatosauce is going to have garlic in
it.
That's a supporting point.
Do the spaghetti sauce.
However, if you see garlic isyour first ingredient, you're
not buying it.
So there are certain assumptionsthat you're going to be able to
(11:51):
make.
If you are a performancemarketing person, you don't need
to put your Google analytics asyour first point.
You know the people, theexpectation is that you would
have that built into yourexperience.
So it's very important to laythat out in a logical fashion
because hiring managers areliteral.
(12:13):
They are not interested infiguring things out.
There's too much work to bedone.
If you make it through a filter,fantastic.
Now it's time to seal the deal.
So you said hiring managers areliteral.
What do you mean by that?
So they are literal in the sensethat Mmm, they are not going to
(12:35):
be interpreting your resume.
What you put out there is whatthey are going to take at face
value.
You're not going to be able toread between the lines to be
able to say, Oh, I think thatthis person is highly adaptive.
I think this person would doreally well in an ambiguous work
environment.
(12:56):
This is somebody who reallyunderstands highly matrix
organizations.
It's your job to spoon feed itto them in a way that they are
able to walk away with a veryclear, succinct picture.
I remind candidates of this allthe time.
Your resume arrived long beforeyou do[inaudible].
(13:19):
It's there to tell your story,your professional story, and you
cannot leave interpretation upto anybody else because
otherwise it's just too random.
And so your job is to really getright with that before you just
fire it off because that bigblack hole can be very
(13:40):
frustrating.
I think that there are a lot ofcandidates that I speak with who
are very frustrated right nowwith, they can't, either they
can't get it through the ATS orthey get through and they find
out that the way that the jobwas built wasn't there, that it
was a ghost job.
Well the next thing is that Ithink you wanted to share, we
(14:01):
wanted to talk about was, isreally understanding the job
description had to coat it.
I know you talked about itearlier, getting down, so you
know with a highlighter, but nowthat we have the backdrop of the
food label, how do we reallydecode a job description to, to
get our resume to get through atleast the first filter.
Or maybe you get a phoneinterview.
What are the, what are the tipsthere to the job description?
(14:22):
So I, I have a, um, a warningout there with job descriptions
because job descriptions don'thave a timestamp.
So we don't know how old thatjob description is.
We don't know if it's a placeholder for a live job or ghost
job as you called it.
Um, we don't know necessarilyif, you know, somebody wrote it
(14:43):
and doesn't have all theinformation.
It's the only information thatyou have to go on.
So, you know, allowing there tobe some grace around that, fine.
You're going to do the best thatyou can with the job description
itself, but then you're going tostart to marry it and partner it
with other information that youknow about the company.
(15:04):
So one of the things that'sreally important is if you
understand the size of thecompany, how, how their, how
their organization is laid out.
A fortune 500 marketing manager,more than likely is going to
have direct reports, is going tohave some, some kind of support
staff may have resources.
(15:26):
Maybe a required to have aownership over a P and L
marketing manager is smallstartup or uh, uh, a smaller
company is wearing like 20different hats.
They may not have any supportsystem, they may not have
resources, they may not havedirect reports.
(15:48):
Um, their performance metricsmay be very poorly defined.
[inaudible] and so understandingthose different environments can
help fill in the picture of whatthe job description is not
sharing.
So using, using your, yoursleuthing techniques for sure.
(16:08):
Um, the other kind of hack thatI so suggest as as partner to
that is I'm signing up forGoogle alerts.
Mmm.
Google alerts is real timerelevant information that can
help you.
Again, um, it's like a clue.
It's like a clue finder, right?
(16:28):
It helps to tell you about thehealth and wellbeing of a
company.
Um, I have a can, a client thatI'm working with, she's
interviewing at CVS and I toldher yesterday, by all means,
make sure that before you go tothe interview, you go to at
least three different stores.
I want you doing store checksand seeing how they're handling,
(16:50):
you know, our Corona viruspandemic.
[inaudible] really have a pointof view on that so that when she
goes to apply or when she goesto her interview, um, she's able
to, you know, really, reallystand out as somebody who is
[inaudible] who is informed.
Um, and back to, back to thelast, um, kind of decoding, you
(17:14):
know, tip that I would offer islook for your first connection,
second connections on LinkedInfor those who have worked there
before.
Because they can tell you ifthis is a company that, uh, was
very supportive of them.
If their management was, youknow, if they had pressed and
(17:35):
valued their management or ifthey, um, thought otherwise.
But you want to talk to peoplewho have actually been there
just to get a little bit of acleaner read,
Kyle Hamer (17:51):
finding a job or finding your, the job of your
choice.
Your dream job is a challenge.
I mean it requires you have theright skills and talents and
personality.
The company has the right demandfor your skills and talents.
And then has the,
Loren Greiff (18:09):
some of the things you've shared today,
Kyle Hamer (18:11):
Mmm.
The Google alerts set up, the[inaudible] decoding the job
description, the creating a, youknow, thinking of yourself as a,
as a food label.
Those things are really great atcreating a base.
But are there other things, wedon't see that as our common,
there are ways to maybe hack orshortcut or at least accelerate
(18:35):
finding that that ideal fit forboth you culturally as well as
you know, the opportunities thatmay not be coming through on
LinkedIn or may not be on glassdoor.
You may not see on indeed winter.
Loren Greiff (18:45):
What are, what are other things that you could do
to find that dream position?
Sure.
I mean I, aye I'm going to callthis out as plain and clear as I
can.
There is no one, uh, there is noone solution.
This is that this is not a, um,I just do this one thing.
I've impressed candidates, um,throughout my career that you
(19:08):
don't eat one thing everymorning for breakfast.
You need a up and tire, um,range of options and that's the
same way that you go about yourjob search.
Not reliant on any recruiter isthat reliant on LinkedIn.
It needs to be a combination of,of all of these things.
I also, I'm really believe[inaudible] support my clients
(19:34):
in so far as having them takesome ownership and power over
their search by identifying atleast 10, maybe even 15
companies, their dreamcompanies, companies they
respect is a value, um, placesthat are really meeting their
criteria and, and start with theGoogle alerts and build some
(19:59):
connections through LinkedIn.
And even if it's just somethingso, so benign as setting up a
coffee with those people, youhave no idea, um, where they
will go.
Where that, where thatopportunity will go.
People want to hire greatpeople.
Um, so, you know, as with thatkind of passion and forward
(20:25):
thinking, um, strategy, it iscertainly a viable way to land
yourself a dream job.
In fact, I've done it myselfthat way,
Kyle Hamer (20:35):
but Lauren, I'm not under Derrius.
I'm not, I'm not an extrovert.
I'm an introvert.
How do I, how do I come out ofmy shell because I like to
create, I don't thinknecessarily enjoy meeting new
people or putting myself there.
I'm afraid of being rejected.
How do I work through that?
What are things that I can do toovercome that or, or, and work
through those challenges that Ihave?
Loren Greiff (20:56):
Yeah.
Um, this is, this is a verycommon Mmm issue, especially a
rungs.
Designers and marketers whothink of themselves as, you
know, strong communicators andthey're out there with their
materials all the time and, youknow, making apps and websites
and all that.
Mmm.
No, this is a shameless selfpromotion.
(21:18):
You can certainly work with acoach, um, and they can walk you
through some of these challengesfor sure.
Uh, I have clients that say tome, gosh, if I had only known
that this was available before,Oh my God, I wouldn't have been
suffering for so long.
So yes, it's okay to ask forhelp.
(21:38):
My goodness.
It's like this is your job we'retalking about is that like, it's
not about like, you know, callplumber when you have issues
with your[inaudible] your pipesand this is your job where you
are earning your livelihoods.
So yes, it's okay to ask forhelp.
And um, as far as, as far asbeing an introvert, Mmm know I
(21:59):
think it's baby steps, but Ithink you have to be comfortable
getting uncomfortable.
I mean, it's tough love, sorryto say that, but it really is
the truth.
Start mingling, start talking topeople.
And LinkedIn, I have to say isprobably one of the safest ways
for you to build connectionswithout necessarily having to,
(22:20):
you know, go to a networkingmeeting if that's what your,
what your kind of biases, youknow, you get to, you get to
meet with other thought leaders.
Um, even strike up an instantmessage conversation.
I've been doing thatconsistently and I've found it
to be shored narrowly welcomingand supportive.
So, um, I hate to say this, butthere's really no excuse.
Kyle Hamer (22:44):
Well, I think the, the, you know, the thing that,
um, a lot of people who areintroverted don't necessarily
think about is, is that there'sa way to craft and tell your
story and showcase your skills,um, that may feel irreverence,
may feel like it's flipping this, um, flipping it, uh, the
normal process on its head.
I mean, the person that we haveon the show a couple of weeks
(23:04):
ago, Bree, she, she did a wholenew now hiring my new boss.
So it's like, Hey, I'm going todo marketing for myself and
those companies that areinterested in what I am, what am
I about beyond the resume canapply to potentially hire me?
Which was, which was a reallycreative and natural way of
(23:26):
expressing who she is.
And, and I think one of thethings that oftentimes job
seekers forget is it, that we'relooking for people who are
authentic, not just[inaudible]cogs in the wheel, right?
Like there's some authenticyauthenticity.
And uniqueness you bring to the,
Loren Greiff (23:46):
to the table that should show up in your food
level, that should show up inyour, in your submissions, that
should show up in how you'reinterviewing or, or what you're
doing.
[inaudible] it should beprevalent so that they're not
getting, what do you think theywant the you to be.
And so you have this facadeyou've got to have the whole
time, but you get to be yourtrue authentic self as you move
(24:08):
into this career of dreams.
I hundred percent agree.
I fully applaud Bree land.
Um, and I love what she did.
I am, um, a practitioner ofzigging where other people's ag.
So the strategies that I shareand offer, um, our completely
untraditional and there's areason for it.
(24:30):
Um, because if you keep doingthe same thing over and over
again, you're going to wind upwith a pack and sitting in the
no pile.
And so I don't want to see thatfor anybody, especially the
folks that I'm working with.
But I think that the, it's thereal thing that you touched on
is that, okay, you know,crafting your story.
And that that includes yourtalking points too.
(24:52):
So all of these elements need tobe in alignment.
Your resume[inaudible], yourLinkedIn.
If you are a designer, yourportfolio and you're
interviewing style and technique, all need to be aligned.
They all need to say the samething in a little bit of a
different way.
And you articulating that reallysolidifies your message.
(25:14):
And it really, it really speaksto your confidence that you know
who you are and that isauthentic.
Mmm.
Interviewing is not aperformance.
Isn't that a performance actingopportunity?
This is an opportunity forpeople to see the person that's
going to be working there day inand day out and for you to be
doing the same.
(25:35):
Okay?
So you know when you are lookingaround and you're interviewing
and talking to people, thatradar should be, she'd be on it,
you know, applicable to you aswell.
All right, so we've, we'vetalked about how to prepare
ourselves because the jobdescription, how to be our true
authentic selves.
Now let's talk about ways to actthe interview or at least ways
(26:00):
to make sure that we're the mostprepared.
I mean you just touched onbullet points, talking points,
having it tied together, butother things should we be aware
of heading into an interview?
Absolutely.
So, um, you know, hopefully youhave a little bit of lead time
as you are getting those Googlealerts to prepare.
(26:23):
And I, I stress this, I cannotstress this enough.
Tough questions, toughquestions.
Mmm, nothing that is Mmm.
Kind of a, an obvious question.
You can use those after you'vedone your hard questions like uh
, saying, well, you know, how doyou like it here?
What don't you like about yourjob?
(26:44):
What do you like about it?
Those are kind of throwawayquestions.
I'm talking about questions thatdemonstrate a level of, um,
strong research.
And when you were getting thoseGoogle alerts, those are hot
beds.
You to start formulating some ofthose questions and really
understanding you should be alsofollowing the threads of the
(27:06):
link of LinkedIn folks who youknow, you're going to be
interviewing.
Um, last night I was, I washelping this client prepare.
I found I found a 20, 20 a studythat they just released.
And that again is fodder forcoming up with some really great
questions.
Um, additionally that thoseLinkedIn, those Google alerts
(27:29):
can also help you to reallyunderstand some of the, um, the,
the, the financial wellbeing ofthe company if they are going
through layoffs.
DTCs right now are struggling.
They're struggling.
These direct consumer brands arestruggling.
So what does that mean?
(27:50):
It means that they're higher.
That even though it's a sexyplace to work, yeah, they may
not be that stable and you wantto know that before you're
interviewing and you want to beable to ask questions like, wow,
I understand that there's been alot of turnover or there's been
a lot of layoffs.
Please explain that.
Um, I want to understand what'sgoing on.
(28:11):
What do you attribute that to?
Or on the opposite end, ifyou're getting Google alerts and
you find out that an agency or acompany just wanted big piece of
business, wow, you guys arehiring, you guys are staffing
up, right?
Cause I heard about this bigwin.
How is it impacting your hiringdecision?
Does that mean that you want tobring people on sooner rather
than later?
(28:32):
Um, so that can kind of give yousome clues and tips, but really
also, Mmm.
I would suggest that you asklike you work there, make sure
you are signing up for anynewsletters.
If there's an app that theyhave, download it and look at it
by that product and service.
You know, like they used to say,be the ball, be be the employee,
(28:56):
you know, drive that, drive thathome and you will find like lots
of traces for you to come upwith some compelling questions.
So three to five really strongquestions.
If you're interviewing on apanel,[inaudible] know who those
people are and make thosequestions specific to that
person.
(29:16):
That way you've done yourresearch so you're not asking
the head of engineering the samequestions as you're asking the
person who's the head ofmarketing and you're really
targeting those questions in avery strategic way.
That's really, really valuablein my life.
And I don't think I've everreally sat down, been prepared
(29:40):
for each individual person
Kyle Hamer (29:41):
on a panel.
There may be hard questions[inaudible] you're good at
asking or you can ask these thatare relative to the role that
are hard questions.
The business may not, uh, fullyappreciated, fully understand
yet as you bring value to theorganization.
But I have not ever been in apanel where each panel person
got a different question.
And I think that's really,really sound advice.
Loren Greiff (30:04):
I want to add one other, one other thing to this
that I think is also veryimportant.
It's not, it's not necessarilyfor every company.
You can never go wrong.
If you want to give yourself a[inaudible][inaudible] interview
kind of torture test.
I'm using the stars methodology.
So if you don't know what thestars stars methodology is, um,
(30:24):
big companies like Amazon, Iknow Purina uses it.
Um, I could go on and on, butreally a lot of these companies
use this and it stands forsituations, tactics, um, actions
and results.
So you can use, you can usethat.
Go online.
You'll be able to find a, it's agrid.
It can be exhausting.
(30:44):
Um, so just FYI, but it's verythorough and it will force you
to come up with a lot of thoseanswers.
Kyle Hamer (30:52):
That's fantastic.
Cool.
Laura and I think a lot of thethings for people who are
looking for their career changeor their next dream job that
we've been giving them, justnuggets of great information.
[inaudible] fantastic resources.
So I really, really thank youfor being so incredibly gracious
and open with what you'veprovided today.
(31:14):
If somebody wants to get incontact with you or wants to
understand what a pocketportfolio is all about,
portfolio rocket portfoliorocket is all about what, what
is the best way to get ahold ofyou?
What's the best way to getinvolved with Warren?
Loren Greiff (31:30):
I'll make it real easy.
You can always reach out to me.
I spell my name Loren, L.
O.
R E N.
um, and my last name, Grice, G.
R.
O.
D.
I.
F.
F.
Kyle Hamer (31:39):
you can find me certainly on LinkedIn or just
reach out to me directly atLoren, L.
O, R E N F portfolio rocket.com.
We really, really thank you verymuch for being here today.
Thank you for sharing all ofthese tips and we look forward
to watching you help many peoplefind the career of their dreams
(32:02):
in the future.
I'm all in.
Thank you so much, Kyle.
Our pleasure.
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