June 23, 2021 • 69 mins
In observance of Father’s Day, this episode is dedicated to fathers across our nation and beyond. A brief history of father’s day in the United States is given in addition to some thoughts recognizing incarcerated fathers and formerly incarcerated fathers. I’m joined by two of my father friends who shared their perspectives about fatherhood and being a father. I express appreciation for my own father to conclude this tribute. Enjoy the show!
Helpful Resources
Decades After Mother Recognized, Father Finally Granted a Day: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2209&dat=19770618&id=c6orAAAAIBAJ&pg=6971,3560760
Father’s Day 2021: https://www.history.com/topics/holidays/fathers-day
Four Ways Incarcerated Fathers Can Help With Their Children’s Education: https://www.prisonfellowship.org/resources/support-friends-family-of-prisoners/prisoner-resources/four-ways-incarcerated-fathers-can-help-with-their-childrens-education/
H. Res. 1274: https://www.congress.gov/110/bills/hres1274/BILLS-110hres1274ih.pdf
Incarcerated Parents: How to Cope When You Can’t Connect: https://www.prisonfellowship.org/resources/support-friends-family-of-prisoners/prisoner-resources/incarcerate-parents-cope-when-you-cant-connect/
National Fatherhood Initiative: https://www.fatherhood.org/
Raising Children with a Parent in Prison: https://www.prisonfellowship.org/resources/support-friends-family-of-prisoners/coping-incarceration-loved-one/raising-children-with-a-parent-in-prison/
The Modernization of Fatherhood: A Social & Political History (pp. 89-90): https://archive.org/details/modernizationoff00laro/page/89/mode/2up
The Modernization of Fatherhood: A Social & Political History (pp. 170-192): https://archive.org/details/modernizationoff00laro/page/170/mode/2up
The Monongah Coal Mine Disaster: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-monongah-coal-mine-disaster
The Monongah Mining Disaster, 1907: https://libcom.org/history/monongah-mining-disaster-1907-steven-johns
Credits
Host: Dr. Sherece Shavel
Theme Narration: Ronald Coaxum
Guest 1: U.S. Airforce Major (Ret.) Samuel Moore
Guest 2: Brian & Kumioa Mingo
Connect with me through email. Send messages to: ssinspiredcast@gmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to Sundays with Chevelle a social work
inspired podcast with creatorand host Dr.
Shariece Chevelle.
This is a bi-monthly show whereeach episode aims to inspire
topics relevant to social workpractice, growing forward,
living on purpose and so muchmore.
(00:33):
Thank you for tuning in.
Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Greetings Sunday listeners.
I am your host, Dr.
Shariece Chevelle.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
I welcome you to episode one, atribute to fathers today is
father's day, and I dedicatethis episode to fathers across
our nation and beyond.
(01:06):
I truly appreciate the role thatfathers play in the life of the
family and particularly thestrength of African-American
fathers here in the UnitedStates.
So for this episode, I calledupon some father friends to
share their perspective onfatherhood and being a father.
But first I want to brieflyshare what I discovered about
(01:30):
the history of father's day herein the United States and give a
few thoughts about those fatherswhose fathering is often
devalued, discredited dismissed,or in other words, qualified as
inferior let's get started.
(01:53):
Okay.
Okay.
I don't know about you, but Idon't know.
All there is to know about theorigin of father's day.
I was aware of somethings andknew there was more to be
learned.
So to prepare for today'sepisode, I went on a hunt for
details about father's day, andI particularly wanted to know
(02:18):
what I didn't already know hereis what I found.
Now.
Some things I already knew suchas father's day becoming an
official permanent nationalholiday in 1972 because of
president Nixon signing it intolaw.
I knew that father's day becamea hot interest after mother's
(02:39):
day became a recognized holidayin 1914, when president Wilson
signed it into law, I also knewthat father's day was to be
observed the third Sunday ofJune.
Here's what I did not know.
I did not know that the push foran efficient day to honor father
(03:02):
started in Western Virginia.
Did you know that?
I learned that on December 6th,1907, a massive coal mine
explosion occurred in Marioncounty, West Virginia, that
killed 360 plus men, 200 ofthose males.
When were fathers, theyidentified as fathers.
(03:25):
And so this is known as themanana mining disaster
associated with Fairmont coalcompany.
It is said that the worst miningdisaster in American history was
this mining explosion resultedin over 1000 children living
(03:48):
without their father and afather's day service was
organized and hosted by localchurch to honor the fathers
killed in this mining explosion.
Now this event happened on June5th, 1908, fast forward to may
of 1907.
And you have this woman by thename, name of Sonora, Louise
(04:14):
smart dad sitting in a mother'sday church service hearing about
the work of Anna Jarvis, who wasinstrumental in establishing the
observance of a mother's dayafter hearing the sermon.
So Nora is like, wait, whatabout fathers?
So she, it goes to the pastorand pitches to him.
(04:38):
Why fathers need to have asimilar day of observed some
things to note about the Norathat I learned was that she had
and is living without her motherdue to death, resulting from
complications of childbirth.
As I understand it at this time,now her father civil war
(05:01):
veteran, William Jackson, smart,was left to raise her and her
five siblings alone.
And I can imagine is sitting inthat chart service, thinking
about how awesome her father isafter suffering such tragedy,
then having to care for her andher five siblings alone.
(05:23):
I can only imagine that's theNora was thinking that her
father deserved just as muchhonor and celebration as the
mother's was received.
So as the story goes the past ordecides to work with Sonora to
do something to honor fathers,Nora wanted this event to happen
on her father's birthday, whichwas June 5th, but because the
(05:48):
past I needed more time, ithappened the third Sunday of
June in 1910 at the local Y YMCA.
So that gives you a little bitof insight as to maybe why we
are having father's day thethird, Sunday in June, as
opposed to any other time.
Interesting.
Anyway, since 1910, the Northernwe smart dad and others campaign
(06:13):
to have a father's day over thecourse of time states and
locales began to take upobservance of that day.
So for those of you listening,who are social workers, it's
noted that Jane Adams pushed fora father's day in Chicago.
She did this in 1911, but shewas not successful.
(06:36):
Her efforts were rejected, butno that she also was part of
this campaigning for a father.
It's quite interesting.
So idea of having a father's daywas not only rejected by
Chicago.
It was rejected in large part bythe public, the public perceived
(06:59):
it to be a commercialmoney-making scheme and it just
became political.
And interestingly, so there's ascholar who gave an interesting
thought about that time and, um,scholar, Ralph LaRoza noted in
his book book that for thisparticular time, it was both a
(07:23):
politics of ideas and a politicsof the person, which I think
that particular summation is, isgood in his 19 70, 19 97 book is
where you can find it.
The name of the book is themodernization of fatherhood.
And I have added someinformation about that in the
(07:44):
show notes.
So you are welcome to take alook despite commercialization
of having a father's day ofobservance.
The day finally receivedrecognition as a national
holiday in 1972 in 2008.
And so some of you may alreadyknow this.
(08:05):
So Nora Louise smart Dodd wascommended by the 110th Congress
with a house resolution.
And that's how the resolution1274.
You can also find that in theshow notes.
Well, this house resolutionreads committed and things to
Nora smart dot for hercontribution and recognizing the
(08:27):
importance of father's day andrecognizing the important role
fathers play in our family'sawesome father's day is a great
day, but I have to say, I am onewho believes that a day is not
enough.
(08:47):
One day is just not enough tocelebrate others really more
than one day.
I have one birthday in the monththat my birthday comes around
and my birthday is at the end ofthe month.
So the month of my birthdaycomes around that first day, the
first of the month, I'mcelebrating.
(09:08):
It's like Jubilee.
I am celebrating the entiremonth, but that also doesn't
mean that father's day should befather's month.
What I mean is we need to be inhabit of recognizing our fathers
regularly.
And so it's great to have a day,but make sure you're not holding
(09:32):
out on showing appreciation andexpressing your love until that
one day.
You want to do it moreregularly.
You want to do it as often asyou can.
When you think about it, youwant to appreciate and celebrate
and honor fathers.
So with that being said,Juneteenth signed into law as a
(09:52):
permanent national holiday, justa couple of days ago.
And so now we have father's dayin June, teeth, observance and
celebration marking thesignificance of June on the
calendar.
We thought of June as father'sday, month now it's father's day
and freedom up.
(10:13):
I'm just excited.
I'm excited about fathers to becelebrated, not only today, but
again, we need to celebratethem.
Okay.
Or several types of fathers thatexist in the world.
There are biological fathers,grandfathers, stepfathers,
(10:37):
godfathers, divorced fathers,single fathers, teen fathers,
military fathers, and the listgo on.
Fathers are classified in thisway, helping us understand their
position.
But then we also ascribequalifiers like good, active,
absent, broke, present.
(10:58):
Awesome.
That beat wise hard work andplayful, lazy, strong.
The list goes on.
We are socially attuned at usingqualifiers, which helps us to
not only understand theirposition in some way, but to
decide how we relate to them.
(11:21):
Now, there is a type of fatherthat I did not mention whose
position as well as whosequalifier is often devalued
dismissed and thought of asinferior worthless.
I'm talking about incarceratedand formerly incarcerated
fathers incarcerated andformerly incarcerated fathers
(11:43):
are a type whose position iscompromised and who habitually
endure assaults to their fatherand capacity, both intention and
effort.
These fathers confront mountainsized obstacles around father,
and that is likely to be anexcess hindrance to their
ability, to restore, establish,and maintain meaningful
(12:07):
relationships with theirchildren, overshadowed by their
mistakes.
The worth of their father andexpression is often assumed in
the worst light.
And any efforts to connect areoften they're often regarded as
a nuisance.
My experience working withformerly incarcerated fathers,
(12:29):
incarcerated fathers, it hasconvinced me that these fathers
are valuable and their desire toconnect with their children is
in no way a nuisance.
So in honor, of father's day, Ipaid tribute with this podcast
to incarcerated and formerlyincarcerated fathers.
(12:51):
I celebrate you today.
I remember you today.
I also want you Sunday listenersto act in support of these
fathers.
Now keep in mind that support.
Can't just be held to one dayout of 365 days a year.
Although the motivation iscoming due to this one day
(13:15):
father's day, it is importantthat your support is ongoing.
And I make this call to actionbecause I recognized how
important it is for formerlyincarcerated and incarcerated
fathers to receive the supportof those who care.
So if you know an incarceratedfather and you are inclined to
(13:38):
support this observance offather's day, I ask that you
remember that incarceratedfather.
Now I'm not asking that you justthink about the person or take
pity in their situation.
I ask that you find a way tosupport them as a father.
Now sending a father's day cardis nice, but is it useful?
(14:00):
For instance, you can help afather keep up with his children
by helping him keep up with hischildren's education.
And you can do that by sendinghim a copy of a book.
The child is reading at school.
He can then engage the childaround whatever that child is
learning.
And, and then something similarcan also be done if the child
(14:21):
has a hobby or, or any otherinterests, whether it be sports
or art or dance or whatever,there are other ideas to
consider.
And I have included them in theshow notes.
So I encourage you to take alook at that list and consider
one of the ways to support thatincarcerated father.
(14:44):
You know, if you know a formerlyincarcerated father, the list
ideas also can be helpful.
It might be a need to adjust alittle bit, but the list
altogether is still usefulideas.
If you are, are caring for achild whose father is
incarcerated or formerlyincarcerated.
(15:07):
And if your tendency is tocreate barriers to connection, I
ask that you choose to avoidhindering the father's
connection to them, that child.
Now it may require some efforton your part to move away from
what you tend to do or what youtend to say, but make room to
(15:30):
allow that father and that childto connect, to build
relationship, to build the kindof connection that a father and
a child needs in order for thatchild to have a healthy process
of development.
If you are a child whose fatheris incarcerated or formerly
(15:53):
incarcerated, I encourage you toeither start or to continue
developing your relationshipwith your father.
I don't know what it will meanfor you to start or to develop
that relationship.
But by all means, if you havethe desire I encourage you to do
so and feel free to reach out tosomeone who will support you in
(16:18):
developing that relationshipwith your father.
If you're not sure, talk tosomeone and become sure, I'm
sure that having a relationshipwith your father is all the more
meaningful than not having arelationship with your father.
So I encourage you to takeaction.
(16:41):
Now, some may not appreciatethese thoughts I'm sharing right
now, maybe because of theperception held about
incarcerated and formerlyincarcerated fathers.
Now I'm not dimming.
I'm not dismissing the fact thatthese fathers have violated our
social norms by carrying outsome criminal act, but rather
(17:01):
I'm highlighting the fact thatincarcerated and formerly
incarcerated fathers matter.
And, and they are capable ofboth loving and building
healthy, meaningfulrelationships with their
children.
Look around.
You'll see many of these men whohave an are maintaining healthy,
meaningful relationships withtheir children, and that is
(17:24):
worth all the celebration it canget.
So we, so we have to honor thesefathers and doing so does not
mean they are no longeraccountable for their actions.
They are fathers of what youthink or how you feel.
They are fathers.
They come in all kinds of shapesand sizes and colors with their
(17:49):
unique personalities and ways ofexpression and interesting
experiences.
They are fathers.
So on this day held inobservance of fathers.
I salute you incarceratedfather.
I salute you formerlyincarcerated father.
(18:09):
As you grow in love and expressthat love to your children, it
will go deeper and farther thanyou will ever know.
Keep growing.
In honor of father's day, Iasked some friends to join me
(18:30):
and share their thoughts aboutfatherhood and being a father.
These interviews were previouslyrecorded separately.
My first guest is my friend U Sair force major retired Samuel
Moore.
He is a father of two andgrandfather of two.
My second guest is a coupleBryant and Kamora Mingo Kamaya,
(18:54):
and I have been friends for over15 years.
So I'm excited to have her onthe show.
This husband and wife team arehappily married with two
children.
Both of my guests have similarperspectives.
If you are a father, think aboutyour own perspectives about
fatherhood and being a father.
(19:15):
Consider your own response toeach question.
As you listen to these friendsof mine, speak Sam, welcome to
the show.
Thank you so much for joining intoday.
How are you?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I am doing awesome.
And thank you for inviting meand thank you very much for even
considering me to be a part ofyour show having so, so grateful
and thankful.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
You're welcome.
I absolutely thought about you.
Um, for sure.
So the show is a tribute tofatherhood, for sure.
You know that, and I know thatyou are a father.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yes.
I have a daughter, my daughter,she's 32 and my son and he's 26.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
So you've been a father for more than 30 years.
So you are definitely someonewho has some perspective on
fatherhood.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Oh, why thank you.
I try.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So I want to take you back a little bit.
Okay.
I want to take you back and Iwant to know what was it like
for you to transition from notbeing a father to being a
father.
Now I know you have to thinkback sometimes.
Hmm.
You know, what was it like foryou to transition, to make that
(20:30):
transition transition from notbeing a father to being,
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I would say for me the transition, wasn't that hard
that's because I'm an olderbrother and I have two younger
brothers, so I kind of helpedbring them up.
Not that my father wasn't aroundmy father was always around, but
I was all there helping andseeing what did to help us.
So by watching my father and byme helping me bring my brothers
up when it was my turn, when Ihad my kids, that transition
(20:56):
wasn't that hard, but it wasmore responsibility because it
was just me.
I'd wanted to make sure that mykids, um, had a good life.
Um, I was in the military totravel the world and I took them
with me.
So, uh, it was quite, um, Iexperienced being a father to
make sure that they acclimatedto all the changes.
So
Speaker 2 (21:15):
You mentioned you were in the military.
So talk to me a little bit aboutbeing a military father.
What, what was that like?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Well, that is the mapping.
Um, cause we moved every coupleof years and then, um, I had to
deploy, um, in the Saudi Arabiaa couple of times and Germany
and Italy and a lot of differentplaces.
So as I was gone, you know,there was still at home with
their mother and, um, but Istill had a father, you know, it
(21:44):
was one of those things.
When you get in trouble, I'mgoing to tell your dad on you.
So I'm out there in the middleof the desert saying, Hey, you
need to do your homework, youknow, but I was always there for
them.
You just got a couple ofcreative ways.
Um, as, as time as technologyprogressed, um, uh, I always
made sure that we did a videoconference or something that I
(22:04):
saw them and made sure that, uh,they knew I was a part of their
lives and that, that they wouldstill get in trouble even though
I wasn't there.
This gotta to say, you wait tillI get back home.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So for your children growing up, did they spend a lot
of time talking to you about,you know, being a dad and then
also your military career beingexcited about that or being
curious about that at all?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yes.
Um, I did find out from,especially my daughter, she's
the older one.
Um, she got to the positionwhere she actually liked moving
around every couple of yearscause she got to the, um, where
she liked meeting new people.
Um, also, so, um, she talked tome about that, that she enjoyed
the military lifestyle.
And then when my son came along,he actually did enjoy going to
(22:52):
the different places.
Um, we actually lived in Hawaiifor several years of my son.
He loved that.
So my daughter, she was incollege and because she was in
college and I was in Hawaii,they consider Hawaii, um,
separated from the actual UnitedStates.
But the military is big on, onfamily.
(23:13):
Um, they will saying my daughterto see me in Hawaii once a year
for free on the government dime.
So she loved that.
So part, so it has going back tothe two fathers.
He's like, I'm going to Hawaiito see my dad and the government
paid for it.
So, you know, so all of the kidsused to like that too.
(23:38):
And uh, my son, he lived there,he wasn't in school.
He went through high schoolthere and he loved growing up in
Hawaii.
So that helps them when youbring in a new father here
because I was a father who wasable to travel with me and, um,
they, they got respect for them.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Awesome.
I can only imagine.
Um, I was always curious aboutmy own dad's career in the
military growing up and I, Ididn't have the opportunities
that you just shared with youwith me that your children had,
but I was always curious abouthis job and his rose and what he
did, and even, you know, beyondmilitary interests in when he
(24:17):
transitioned.
And, um, you know, what I knowof more is him going and being a
postal worker, postal serviceworker.
And I was always curious aboutthat and what his life was like
doing that work.
So I think naturally childrenare curious about their fathers
work, their career, what they'redoing and how they can learn
(24:41):
more about it.
And you know, how cool is itthat their dad is doing this,
that and the other.
So I can only imagine howexciting it was for your own
children, you being in themilitary and the air force more
specifically, and being able toshare that with your children.
So that, that is
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Awesome.
The kids love that.
Cause we've moved severalplaces.
I just mentioned a why, but wemoved to California and we lived
in the south, in South Carolina,we lived in Oklahoma.
We lived in Texas and mydaughter, she was born there in
Texas, but with her growing upand moving around, she took
enjoyment out of moving around,also in meeting new and
(25:21):
different people.
So that was real good.
Cause it comes back to thefather.
Cause she always say I movedaround because of my dad
Speaker 2 (25:30):
And my son.
So that brings me to anotherquestion that I would like for
you to share about in, in youropinion, what does it mean to be
a father growing
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Up with my father in my home and then transitioning
to the military, they'd be afamily.
Uh, what it means to me to be afather, to be responsible and
traps or rear or bring your kidsup so they could be successful
and I'm wanting to bring them upand rear them up.
So they gain be more successfulthan myself.
So what does it mean to be afather is to, to raise your
(26:05):
kids, to bring them up withproper manners and to set them
up for success and let themfollow so they could follow
their dreams.
One thing I always tell themthat they have the whole world
who I tell them now they've gotthe whole universe in they hand
and I would like to set them forsuccess so they could follow
their dreams to do whatever theywant to become.
So that's what fatherhood meansto me is the weirdo.
(26:25):
So they could be successful andbe whatever they want to be.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Did this meaning to you that it changed over time?
Meaning at the start of yourfathering life?
Was it one perspective and thenover time, your perspective
changed or expanded or?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yes.
So now, so now my kids havekids, so I'm a grandfather.
Um, my son has a daughter.
My son has a border and mydaughter has a son.
I'm lucky.
I got one of everything, oneson, one daughter and grandson,
one granddaughter.
But as we're growing up, youknow, that's, the kids are
growing up.
You have them where you tellthem, um, where you ask them to
(27:06):
do things, you know, locally inyour room.
They'll do this, they'll dothat, go to the store for me.
But as they get older andteenage years into their
adulthood, your fatherhoodchanged from more of being
you're their father, but youbecome more real advisors has to
say, you know, you don't tellthem to go do this.
You say, you know, I think youshould do this.
It's up to you if you're goingto follow my advice or not.
(27:28):
So the role does change frombeing a father, father figure as
to a father advisor figure.
So yes, it does change, but Ithink that actually grows,
grows.
Um, the relationship betweenyour children and your father,
um, closer and as they get kids.
And I'm sure you always heardthis old quote because they're
(27:49):
saying that now with their CS,I've started to sound more like
my parents.
So I guess that's a good thing.
That's common as you, as you getolder, you
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Start to hear that more and more.
Well, I know you have a lot ofexperiences with being a father.
Can you think of one right nowthat you hold near and dear,
whether it's an experience withyour daughter or your son, do
you have an experience that youhold near and dear?
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, I actually haven't found several.
Um, but the one I want to say is, um, actually helping them grow
up and letting them learn thethings of life.
What I mean by that I hold nearand dear teaching them how to
ride a bike.
Um, teaching them how to dry.
I'm teaching them little thingsof one to the store and learning
how to shop and also spendingtime together of doing homework,
(28:46):
you know, helping them withtheir homework in math.
And they're seeing that, I guessthat my answers are right when
they go to school to set up thatthey come back and say, Hey, you
know, that was right.
But there's those things likethat, that I took a lot of pride
in that I hold near and dear,because those are good times.
And, um, you know, you onlylearn, they only learn how to
(29:06):
ride a bike once they only learnto drive once you know, their
driver's license.
You know, I remember, um, bothon son and daughter at different
times, especially my daughter.
I was asleep on a Saturday andshe I'm waking me up and said,
dad, I think I'm ready.
Let's go get my driver'slicense.
And you know, so that's amemory, that's your memory will
remember for the rest of herlicense saying, well, my son,
Speaker 2 (29:30):
That's awesome.
Um, I'm sitting here thinkingback now to that time for me.
And, uh, it was quite stressful.
It definitely was stressful.
So needing to have your dadthere to support you and to help
you along and to help ease someof the frustration and anxiety
(29:53):
around that driver's license oreven taking the driver's license
test is, is definitelyimportant.
So I appreciate you bringingthat out.
That kind of brought back somememories for me.
There you go.
You and I talk often and we talkabout a lot of things, not
(30:15):
always obviously, related tobeing a father or being a
parent, so to speak, but for thesake of our conversation today,
we recently shared some commentsabout a movie by the name of
fences that had several scenesin it related to fathering.
(30:39):
And as we speak there, there wthere is a colorful conversation
or discussion happening rightnow on social media about this
particular movie and itsportrayal of fathering.
And I have to get your thoughtson, uh, the, the one clip where
(31:00):
the son came and he was supposedto do some chores and he didn't
get his chores done at the timethat he was supposed to get
them.
And, you know, he ended uptransitioning to this
conversation about buying a TVand there was this talk about
$200 and what you can do with$200.
And then he asked his dad, well,you know, why don't you like me?
(31:22):
And you know, this whole scenewas quite interesting, but this
one scene is sparking a lot ofconversation.
So I have to ask you about thisone scene and what you think
about it with regard tofathering in your opinion, that
(31:42):
scene or that movie as a whole,would you say it portrays what
it means to be a father or theresponsibility of fathering?
How would you characterize thismovie with regard to bothering?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
So, um, the spit it out, they're talking about movie
fences where you Denzel you didan excellent job acting there
and his son, I don't rememberthe actor there.
I think it was a point of toughlove.
So I'm going to talk about whatyou're talking about, the actual
scene and then high interpretedit and go a little bit further
than that.
So actually the scene is thisDenzel, he just tried to show
(32:19):
the son that his son asked him,why don't you like me?
And I think that was just a wayof Denzel showing him that.
Does he like him?
He doesn't really like him.
Yes.
He love him.
Why does he love him?
Because he go to work everysingle day.
He makes sure that he has a roofover his head.
He makes sure he got food andstuff.
He said, he made sure he gotclothes on his back.
You know, that's not like that'slove, but that's just a
(32:40):
different way of showing them.
You're showing me tough love.
You hear that all the time.
So that's what that scene wasabout.
So then they were talking aboutthe television, you know, the
young young man, you know, hesaid, Hey, let's get a TV for
$200.
And then the fat and the fatherDenzel said, you know what?
I see, I see a roof that needsto be repaired.
And he said, because this riftdon't get repaired.
(33:00):
The whole house is going to comedown.
And the young young man wassaying, you know, well, why
don't we just pay it off alittle bit at a time?
So this is another teachermoment.
Then Zelle was saying, pay it upa little at a time.
No, don't do that.
Save your money and get it allat one time.
So where I'm going with this,the top button of the future.
Perfect example, when I wassaying that, um, I sounded more
(33:21):
like my father.
I think that was a very goodteaching moment in that movie of
tough love could, because Icould see in the future when the
son has kids, he's going to gothrough that same thing.
And you're going to say, saveyour money.
Now this is a son.
Tell him to his kids to begrandkids, save you, buy
something off at the same timeand do something that is going
(33:43):
to be more beneficial at thattime as a repair on the roof, as
opposed to getting a TV.
So that teaching moment is notonly good at that moment there
with his son, but it's going togo to his grandkids and to his
great grandkids.
That thing that was actually anexcellent piece is just done a
different way and just a toughlove moment, but definitely a
(34:04):
life learning moment.
So I thought it was in very goodteaching moment of life of
father.
So I appreciate
Speaker 2 (34:11):
You for saying that because I definitely find that
the significant role that afather plays is to help the
family prioritize needs andwants.
And I, and I think that thatparticular clip of the movie
portraying that what is a one,what is the need?
(34:32):
And we have to prioritize, wehit it's that it's, that need to
hold tight to whatever theresponsibility is.
And I think that lesson wasabout responsibility.
And it's interesting that youmentioned this idea of love,
because I don't believe in thatparticular clip, the idea of
love came forward as to say he,he uses the term love.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah.
Cause he's at that time with dad, but it, that it was, it was
implied.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
It was implied, but the way that it seemed to the
way I understand it, what wasbeing put forward more was this
idea of responsibility.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
And that's turned into the young man to a man
because as a man, you have someresponsibility to take care of
your son.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Okay.
That's how I understood it aswell.
And I did appreciate thatparticular clip, but I also
recognize that there are thosewho find that the delivery that
was in that particular clip wasnot positive.
It was negative.
It was degrading.
(35:46):
It was, you know, overall itlacked that demonstration of, I
love you.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Well, his delivery, it was, it was tough.
And what I said, I mentionedearlier, it was tough love, and
that's what it was.
And you know, some people havetough love.
And I think everybody, everyparent, every that goes through
experience where you have togive tough love.
So it's not going to be, youknow, ice cream with cherry
(36:13):
cherry on top of it, you know,you gotta be tough about it.
And in that moment also, he wasso on how to change a young man
into a man, man, or a boy to aman.
And that's what theresponsibility was about also.
So you have to be tough.
So yeah, some people arefeathers would probably ruffled
the wrong way, but in the end, Ithink it's probably best for the
(36:33):
young young man.
Cause I think it was just thatsame, but I think there is
occasions where every dad has toshow tough love, you know, and
that's what he was doing, thathe was showing, showing tough
love.
And so, you know what it takesto dab responsibility, but it
takes to be a father.
And that's what he was saying.
You know, I'm your father, youknow, and it is my
(36:54):
responsibility to do this.
And that was translating to whenyou become a father, it's your
responsibility to take care ofyour kids.
So there's going to be timeswhen you might not like your
kids, that's what he was saying,but he's still gonna, you know,
have to take care of, you know,and set them up for success.
So I think it was, uh, a goodportrayal.
(37:15):
I think his, um, lifelike, youknow, everyone might not do it
in that situation, but I thinkthere is a situation that will
come along where people willshow tough love and it will come
out the same way.
Like can a father, you know, hehas a very significant gift
figure and young men and youngwomen, you were talking about
that clip when, um, I sawanother clip when, uh, it was
(37:37):
actually the talk show of SteveHarvey and he was asking a
question and the lady was sayingthat she remarried, but her son
was acting out all the time.
And Steve Harvey, he said, youknow, he's not a professional,
but he's a mentor.
And he seen this before.
He said, the reason the youngman was acting out all the time
because the relationship that hehas with his original data
(37:58):
stream, and then the lady saidthat was correct.
So, you know, the father playsan important role in young man's
life.
Well then it would be productivecitizens in the future.
So it was very, very, veryimportant in my, my opinion.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I have to agree with youfathers definitely play, uh, an
important role and, you know,without fathers, I, I can't even
imagine, you know, where wewould be just as, you know,
humanity as human beings on theearth, we need fathers and we
(38:35):
definitely need to do more tocelebrate our fathers that are
in our communities, our fathersthat are in our neighborhoods,
the fathers that we haveconnection and relationship
with, we need to make sure thatwe spend quality time
encouraging, inspiring as wellas celebrating our father.
So with that being said, I wantto celebrate you right now and
(38:58):
just say, thank you so much forbeing the father that you are
for doing the work that you didover the years to raise your
children and to help them get onthe path that they need to get
on in order for them to besuccessful.
It's so important that you as afather were present in your
(39:18):
kids' lives and that they knowthat you are present and that
they know that they could counton you for whatever the
reasoning was.
And you were always there.
So I just want to say thank youto you because other, you being
a father, it definitely helpedto build community our sons and
our daughters make up thecommunity and the neighborhoods
(39:39):
that we live in.
And the more that we have strong, uh, fathers raising children
and, and ring them up from theperspective of strong men and
women empowerment and women,responsible men, men, and women
in growing into being mature menand women, it only helps to make
(40:03):
our communities and ourneighborhoods all the more
better.
So I just want to say, thank youfor being a good father and
continuing even now, althoughyour kids are grown and they're
out on their own thing, youknow, you're still being who you
need to be as a father in thisperiod of, in this stage of your
life.
And then of course you have yourgrandchildren, which I know for
(40:25):
sure that you're pouring intotheir lives in a significant
way.
So I just want to say, thankyou.
I celebrate you.
You, you are a good father and Ithank you so much for joining me
today and taking out some timeto share with me your
perspective on fathering andalso sharing a little bit of
your experiences as well.
Not just with me, but also withmy Sunday listeners.
(40:47):
We thank you.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I'm honored where you even thinkof me to be part of your
podcast.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
You're welcome.
And I just hope that you willcome back and join us another
time.
Can I count on you for that?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Most definitely.
I would call it and watch youinterview someone else.
You didn't quite get that.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Come back and join me another time.
And maybe we could talk aboutsome other interesting topics.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Yes, I would love to.
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
I like it.
All right, Sam.
Well, you enjoy the rest of yourday and we'll talk again soon.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
All right.
Sounds great.
You have a great day.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I have with me, my dear friend[inaudible] and her
husband, Brian, I'm so excitedto have them.
And I particularly wanted tohave Brian on the show, because
again, this episode is all aboutcelebrating father's and he is
an African-American father.
And I wanted him to come andtalk a little bit, share a
little bit about his fatherexperience and maybe some
(41:54):
perspective on what it means tobe a father.
So Kamaya and Brian, welcome tothe show.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Thank you for having us so much
Speaker 2 (42:04):
For taking the time to come and visit with us.
So Brian, you are anAfrican-American father.
I'm so excited that you decidedto come and share with us today
and you have a tube.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
And I am.
I thank you for evenhighlighting African-American
debts that is oftentimesoverlooked in our communities.
So I appreciate that.
And yes, two beautiful children,one grown, grown shout, and one
young.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Awesome.
So you say one grown child hasgrown
Speaker 3 (42:41):
19, maybe 2011 going on 12.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Time flies by.
So obviously you haven't alwaysbeen a father.
So talk to us about what it waslike for you to transition from
not being a father to being
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Well, one for the most part is consistently
putting selfishness aside, youknow, um, as a single person, a
single father, a single man, youknow, a lot of times it's based
off of what I want, what I wantto do, where I want to go.
And I honestly, um, I tell himthis all the time, my kids saved
(43:26):
my life and I can't put it anyother way than that.
And I tell them that they, theysaved my life.
I will, I don't know where Iwould be without my kids being
in my life.
They bring a new perspective.
I mean, I would say anyone, man,that doesn't have a child, you
know, that's the biggestrepresentation of God is
especially being an operatingroom.
(43:46):
It changes everything for me.
So, um, from not being a fatherto being a father, I would say
selfishness, we gotta put thataside.
Oh man, you begin to really livethrough your children.
I lived through my children allthe time.
They keep me young.
They keep me alive.
They keep me well, if I'mworking out with them,
(44:07):
exercising with them, playingwith them, everything changes.
Fatherhood comes into play.
To be honest with you, it'snever a dull moment.
I don't look at me time anymore.
Their time is my time.
When you want to be a fatherthat excites you so much,
children excites me.
They bring a new level to mylife.
(44:29):
You know, even if we weremarried, no children.
I think man, the state young tostay energetic is hard too.
When you don't have children,it's kind of it's blend now for
me.
So I think that's the biggestdifference.
Not being selfish and actuallythinking and considering our
children in everything I do.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
And I do appreciate you forhighlighting that, you know,
need to be selfless when itcomes to taking care of children
and being responsible forchildren.
And that's, to me, I think isreally critical, is really key.
So what are some of your fondestmemories over the last 19 years
(45:11):
let's say of, of experiencingfatherhood.
Do you have any, any favoritememories?
I have
Speaker 3 (45:20):
A problem in that area and it is very difficult
for me.
I'm a little different becauseall my time is valuable.
Every moment with my families isno greater moment than last.
So it was very hard for me tohighlight one area that I'm
like, this is like the moment,you know, it seems like I could
(45:41):
give moments of transitioningwhere it's a highlight, but then
it's doing it just this justiceto the moments before then the
little things add up to the bigthing.
So I can't dismiss any smallmoments to highlight a big
moment.
I mean, I have goals for myfamily.
I wanted passports for, so atthe post office getting actually
(46:03):
getting the passport, I was likea little overly excited maybe on
pouring through me because itwas a goal that I actually had
for my family to actually getpassports going on vacation with
my family.
That's always been a big dreamand goal of mine as a young
person, without a family orchildren, helping my son get a
(46:26):
car, teaching my daughter, howto drive early, but then playing
Barbie dolls with my daughters.
I can't dismiss that, you know,on, so it's hard to really
highlight one area over the nextbecause all my time with my
family was very valuable.
We should be like, that pieceshould be home away from the
(46:47):
world, my town, with my familiesat every moment.
There's no special moment overthe other one is very, that
question was hard.
It was.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah.
I can appreciate that.
I appreciate definitely all thatyou have shared because I, I do
agree that time with family isdefinitely valuable and it's not
something that you can put aprice tag on it or, um, it's
like those forever memories andperish them for, you know, the
lifetime.
So I do appreciate,
Speaker 3 (47:18):
And I'll give an example on that really quick.
For instance, like we, we usedto go on vacations and those are
big, but then there's momentsthat my daughter will be like,
daddy, let's go.
I want to ride my bike aroundthe corner, you know?
And I don't feel like going, butI do it anyway.
And then after I do it, I feelamazing and I feel better.
(47:40):
I feel energetic.
And I thank her for that.
I say, listen, and I verballytell her that because I think
that's important.
And I'll tell her, thank you forgetting me up and walking with
you while you ride your bikearound the corner.
Those moments like that can beoverlooked when my body felt
better than it did when I said Ididn't feel like it.
(48:03):
So that's what I mean byhighlighting something like a
vacation over moments like that.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And when I'm listening to you, Ihear you say strength and
sacrifice.
That's what I'm getting out ofwhat you're saying.
And that, that means a lot justto have strength, but your
strength is not coming from yourphysical, your physical ability
or capacity it's strength.
(48:29):
And you sacrificing your time,sacrificing your effort towards
someone else's benefit.
And I think that is so profoundand so significant when it comes
to just life in itself and thevalue of life in itself.
So this kind of brings me toanother question that I would
(48:52):
love to ask you.
And that is about fathering intoday's world and today's
culture does what our culture itrepresents today.
Does that make fathering eventhe more necessary for you or
(49:13):
even the more meaningful orvaluable to you or does that not
even matter?
It's the, the role, it's theduty, it's the love, it's the
sacrifice.
It's the, the desire, the desirewithin to be who you need to be
for your children?
(49:34):
What, what do you say or what,what is there that you think
should be said about being afather?
And
Speaker 3 (49:42):
I would, um, unfortunately I don't really
like the word culture.
It puts us in a box that we tendto want to live up to.
That is a false narrative.
I am culture, everything withinme.
And it may not coincide with howyou may feel, how you may raise
(50:04):
your child.
Or I think fatherhood isregardless of cultural or
religion or race is fatherhood.
And when we begin to just saythat it's important to raise
your children based off of yourmistakes and enlighten them and
let them know you're notperfect.
(50:25):
And I make mistakes, I'm makingmistakes with my children.
I apologize to my children of mymistakes to them.
I think that's important.
Um, I speak to them.
What do you think I did wrong?
Um, and then we can talk aboutthat and I can talk about how
certain things made me angryversus things that they made
(50:46):
them angry or upset about me.
So raising them culture just inthe world today is difficult.
We in a difficult space rightnow, I just try to raise them to
respect everybody because Irespect everybody.
(51:08):
I respect them.
And I demonstrate that by whenI'm wrong, I'm wrong.
And I apologize to them forthat.
That's me showing them respect,no matter the age, color, creed,
it doesn't matter.
Religion.
I raised them up to respecteverybody doesn't matter.
(51:30):
And how I see that is if I don'tshow them respect, how can I
raise them and teach them torespect people and everyone,
when I might do something wrongwith them, or I might upset
them.
And if I'm older or I'm yourelder, it doesn't matter.
Kind of do.
As I say, not as I do that,doesn't apply in this household.
(51:54):
I got to lead by example,meaning if I do something wrong
is wrong is not do.
As I say, not as I do.
I can't sit back and dosomething and expect you not to
do it.
I have to lead by example, if Ido you wrong and I have to
apologize to you, I have tostand for as a man to apologize
(52:14):
to you and say, Hey, I was wrongand how can I get it?
Right?
You got to any bridge, you burn,any mistakes you make is your
job to now fix it.
As parents, as a father, I can'traise my daughter to look for a
man that doesn't do anythingless than what I'm doing.
(52:37):
So to raise up, to follow a manor be with a man that can
apologize to his children orapologize to anyone that is all
he is less than him is, is notright.
So that's the way I try to raisethem regardless of the
environment or space that we in,respect everyone at every time,
(53:01):
wrong is wrong.
If you wrong, apologize, youknow, that's how you grow.
And you can learn from thatregardless of the culture.
I think that's how you developyour culture and what your
legacy will be and how you willbe seen in how your grandkids
and great grandkids will be ableto look up to you and see you in
(53:24):
certain.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Well, I appreciate your answer and I, and I
appreciate your, the perspectivethat you bring as a father.
And I, I, I recognize thatculture is definitely a topic of
, um, hot discussion.
And it is one is just thinkingabout culture as a whole,
(53:47):
because there are subcultures.
And even as a father, no onefather, parents or fathers the
same.
And so I appreciate you for justmaking mention of the fact of
the diversity and just being afather and just being a man or
just being, you know, someonewho is taking up that
(54:08):
responsibility for theirchildren or for their family as
a whole.
But what blared out to me inyour talk was being an example.
And I think that is somethingimportant to take away from this
discussion, being an example.
And I think fathers can be greatexamples for their children and
(54:28):
I, and in my experience,children look to their fathers
and seek example from theirfathers.
So the fact that I hear yousaying that something that you
intentionally purposefully do asa father, as you exercise your
(54:50):
role and your responsibility asa father, you seek to be that
example.
I think that's great becausethat's, that's a game changer,
Speaker 3 (55:00):
One culture to beat any the excuse because I'm a
black man, but there's, I couldcome across a white man and
should he use his culture as anexcuse for something that might
be wrong?
It shouldn't be a barrier how weraising our children as fathers.
(55:21):
Um, and specificallyAfrican-American fathers is less
go beyond that.
Now let's, let's look beyondthat.
Just don't treat anybodydifferent, you know, and that
can change our, even ourneighborhoods, right?
And then they B they cantransition from a neighborhood
to a community.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
Yeah.
But that's that, that's what Imeant by your point of being an
example, because you, you,because you have, you know,
thinking about the fact that,you know, there are fathers who
are biological, you know,biological fathers, then you
have fathers, then you havesocial fathers and this, this
idea of father can be quitebroad.
(56:03):
And so if you think of fatherand you put this idea of, you
know, fathers intentionally andpurposefully being an example to
children, then when I say that'sa game changer, I mean, that's a
game changer for not only thefamily unit, but for the
neighborhood, for the community,for the city, for the state, for
(56:27):
the country, for beyond, andthat's the power of fathers.
And so you're basically bringingout what I think is in, is
important to note about fathers.
As we celebrate fathers in thisday of observing fathers, I
think it's something to bringout and to point out.
(56:47):
So you, you literally havepointed out several critical
facts that I thought that Ithink is really important to
highlight, especially today, butnot just today and, you know,
celebrating fathers.
Shouldn't just be one day.
It's an every day thing that weneed to do.
(57:07):
We need to begin to develop ahabit to appreciate everyone,
hopefully those who are taken upthat mantle to raise the next
generation.
So I kudos to you kudos to you.
Thank you so much for yourstrength and your strong, um,
(57:32):
uh, conviction of being a fatherand doing the very thing that
your heart desires to do, whichis to love your children and to
take care of them in the bestway that you possibly can.
And it's all good.
And I appreciate, I appreciatethat for sure.
So since this is celebrationtime, you know, for fathers,
(57:54):
this is the day that has beenobserved for fathers to
celebrate them.
What, what is the celebrationgoing to look like for you?
What are you doing today?
What are, what are, where areyou going?
What's happening?
What's the celebrate
Speaker 3 (58:08):
In my house.
Father's day is every day.
So my work for father's day andfor father's day weekend, my
daughter really wanted me tospend some time with them
instead of working.
So they're going to be taking meaway to the beach she wants to
take me to.
So that's what we are allowingher to do.
(58:30):
And she's very thoughtful.
My kids are pretty thoughtful.
I try to explain to them afather's day is every day they
are.
They're my gift.
They're my life saver.
They are my gift.
So every day I get to spend withthem, um, I'm good with that.
So anything extra is over thetop for me.
And I explained to them, theyknow that my daughter gave me a
(58:52):
couple months ago.
She put a dollar in an envelopeand gave it to me and wrote,
please keep it because she isvery hard for me to keep that
type of stuff.
But again, every little thing,you know,
Speaker 2 (59:05):
Awesome.
So Kamora is here.
I would love to hear what youwould like to share.
Is there anything that you wantto add to what your husband has
already said about him being afather or about your
appreciation of him as a father?
(59:26):
What, what is it that you say?
Well, one of the main
Speaker 3 (59:29):
Things that I appreciate about Brian is as
being a father is hisconsistency.
Uh, one thing I can say is he'sconsistent when he promises our
children things, and it's not somuch of material things, it can
be something basic.
Like he said, as far as ourdaughter want to go ride her
(59:50):
bike and she'll ask you, he'llsay, yeah, you know, I'll take
it and he'll go, no matter howhe feels, how tired he is.
So he's consistent, even withour son, the same stuff, when it
comes to exercising, he'll say,Hey, there's, you know, one play
football, you know, let's goworkout.
(01:00:10):
So when it comes to that, he'llsay we can do that and they'll
do that.
And he tells him, you know,listen, if you want to be great,
you have to stick to it.
You have to be consistent.
So he practiced consistency.
So I believe that when ourchildren see that that's a good
teaching moment for them to seethat and he'll do his best to
(01:00:33):
make it happen no matter what.
So that's the, one of thebiggest things when it comes to
consistency, that he tries hisbest to follow through with
everything that he promises themand he wants them to see that
anything is possible.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Awesome.
Well, thank you both for joiningus today and sharing a little
bit happy father's day.
And I celebrate with youalthough far, um, I, I celebrate
with you and I wish you all thebest.
And I just want to say that, uh,thank you just for being a
(01:01:08):
father and for being a fatherwho is not only responsible, but
present a father who is loving afather who is putting forth, um,
in investing as much as yourselfas you possibly can in order to
not only raise your children,but also put them on the path
(01:01:28):
for success.
So kudos to the two of you.
Thank you both for joining intoday.
And I look forward to talkingwith you again real soon
Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
With you for having us.
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Take care.
You too.
I know my friends and I thankthem for their contribution to
this show.
Thank you guys.
One guest who was unfortunatelyunable to join me today was my
(01:02:09):
father.
Although he was not able to joinme.
I want to take a few moments tohonor him.
Now, my interesting character,he is, he definitely is not a
perfect person, but he has agreat heart.
(01:02:29):
And he has been in my life allof my life.
And he has done some amazingthings to connect and build our
relationship over the years,growing up, my father and I did
not live in the same home.
He lived in a different stateafter some point in time.
(01:02:50):
And I lived in New Jersey andgrew up in New Jersey.
But although we were apart, myfather did all that he needed to
do in order to develop andmaintain a relationship with me.
He would visit me of course, buthe also would do things like
(01:03:14):
write letters and write these,you know, heartwarming, you
know, even mushy cards, right?
You know, the kind of cars thatfathers, you know, try to make
you cry cards.
And he would, you know, we wouldhave these long conversations on
the phone and he was alwaysinterested in what was going on
with me.
So we would be on the phone forhours and just talking and I
(01:03:37):
would just be pouring out andjust telling him every, every
little detail about what's goingon in my life.
And we talked often when we wereapart, when I was a child, he,
you know, would of course thegifts and all that, but he would
never fail to make sure that Iknew that he loved me and that
he was there for me in anythingthat I needed.
(01:03:59):
He was there.
And it was true.
My relationship with my fatherdeveloped so deeply to where I
always considered myself to be afather, a father, girl, you know
, daddy's girl as they call it.
And over the years, um, I beganto, you know, move around as I
grew older.
And, uh, eventually we were ableto get in the same state, but my
(01:04:24):
relationship with my fathernever broke.
It was always close all theyears of my life.
Even to this day, he is the oneman that I trust the most.
And he is someone who he'll tellyou the truth.
So the conversations we have,he's told me, you know, things
that there are times I'm like,you know, I don't want to hear
(01:04:46):
that.
I don't want you to tell me thatthat's, you know, but he'll
tell, you know, he'll tell thetruth.
He's a God-fearing man.
So we have good conversationsand we don't always agree, or
you're always agreeing, trustme, we don't always agree.
But even when we don't agree,what's left is me knowing that
(01:05:06):
he loves me no matter what, evenwhen I make mistakes, he was
always there to love me.
Never, you know, blamed me or henever raided or any of that,
even when I would make mistakes,you know, as I'm growing and
learning and he would alwaysjust be there.
And he, whenever we were aroundeach other, he would hug and he
(01:05:30):
would just, you know, theaffection was always there.
So I, I did not feel like my dadwas not present.
He always was present, eventhough he may not have been
physically present.
And so I honor my dad todaybecause he did all that he knew
(01:05:50):
to do in order to develop arelationship with me, his first
born.
And I so appreciate thesacrifices that he made and all
the work that he put in to makesure that not only I knew that
he loved me, but that he showedit.
(01:06:11):
It wasn't just spoken, but itwas in what he did.
And even to this day, I can pickup the phone and my dad would
answer and he would talk to meand I would talk to him and I
can tell my dad anything.
I literally, to this day stilltell my dad everything.
It doesn't matter.
How, how good, how bad, howugly, how, whatever I can tell
him anything.
(01:06:32):
And he was, he's always therenot only to listen, but he also
gives some wisdom in that aswell.
And if I don't want his wisdom,he still gives it.
Um, even if, uh, I don't ask, healways offers into listen to
(01:06:53):
him.
Sometimes tell his stories ofhim growing up.
And, and I, I gained, I gained abetter understanding of who he
is now based on all of the, allthe stories that he's told over
the years.
So anyway to you, that thank youfor being you.
(01:07:16):
Thank you for loving me andalways being there for me.
Happy father's day.
Can you agree that fathers areawesome?
Well, if you agree with me, thatfathers are awesome.
(01:07:39):
Be sure to help the fathers inyour life reach their awesome
potential.
I enjoy thinking and talkingabout fathers.
As we celebrate all across thenation today saying happy
father's day to one another andshowing happy father's day to
the loved ones in your life bygiving gifts and words of
(01:08:03):
expression of love.
Continue to do that throughoutthe year.
If you enjoy this episode, writea review to share your thoughts,
share this podcast with othersand subscribe wherever you
listen to podcasts.
To keep up with this show,connect with me through email,
(01:08:24):
then messages to S S inspiredcast at Gmail that com S S
inspired cast at Gmail.
That com until next time,Sunday, listeners, be sure to
live.
Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Thank you for listening to Sundays with
Chevelle subscribe, wherever youlisten to podcasts and be sure
to tune in next time for anothersocial work inspired episode.
Bye-bye.
Welcome to Sundays with Chevelle a social work
inspired podcast with creatorand host Dr.
Shariece Chevelle.
This is a bi-monthly show whereeach episode aims to inspire
topics relevant to social workpractice, growing forward,
living on purpose and so muchmore.
(00:33):
Thank you for tuning in.
Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Greetings Sunday listeners.
I am your host, Dr.
Shariece Chevelle.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
I welcome you to episode one, atribute to fathers today is
father's day, and I dedicatethis episode to fathers across
our nation and beyond.
(01:06):
I truly appreciate the role thatfathers play in the life of the
family and particularly thestrength of African-American
fathers here in the UnitedStates.
So for this episode, I calledupon some father friends to
share their perspective onfatherhood and being a father.
But first I want to brieflyshare what I discovered about
(01:30):
the history of father's day herein the United States and give a
few thoughts about those fatherswhose fathering is often
devalued, discredited dismissed,or in other words, qualified as
inferior let's get started.
(01:53):
Okay.
Okay.
I don't know about you, but Idon't know.
All there is to know about theorigin of father's day.
I was aware of somethings andknew there was more to be
learned.
So to prepare for today'sepisode, I went on a hunt for
details about father's day, andI particularly wanted to know
(02:18):
what I didn't already know hereis what I found.
Now.
Some things I already knew suchas father's day becoming an
official permanent nationalholiday in 1972 because of
president Nixon signing it intolaw.
I knew that father's day becamea hot interest after mother's
(02:39):
day became a recognized holidayin 1914, when president Wilson
signed it into law, I also knewthat father's day was to be
observed the third Sunday ofJune.
Here's what I did not know.
I did not know that the push foran efficient day to honor father
(03:02):
started in Western Virginia.
Did you know that?
I learned that on December 6th,1907, a massive coal mine
explosion occurred in Marioncounty, West Virginia, that
killed 360 plus men, 200 ofthose males.
When were fathers, theyidentified as fathers.
(03:25):
And so this is known as themanana mining disaster
associated with Fairmont coalcompany.
It is said that the worst miningdisaster in American history was
this mining explosion resultedin over 1000 children living
(03:48):
without their father and afather's day service was
organized and hosted by localchurch to honor the fathers
killed in this mining explosion.
Now this event happened on June5th, 1908, fast forward to may
of 1907.
And you have this woman by thename, name of Sonora, Louise
(04:14):
smart dad sitting in a mother'sday church service hearing about
the work of Anna Jarvis, who wasinstrumental in establishing the
observance of a mother's dayafter hearing the sermon.
So Nora is like, wait, whatabout fathers?
So she, it goes to the pastorand pitches to him.
(04:38):
Why fathers need to have asimilar day of observed some
things to note about the Norathat I learned was that she had
and is living without her motherdue to death, resulting from
complications of childbirth.
As I understand it at this time,now her father civil war
(05:01):
veteran, William Jackson, smart,was left to raise her and her
five siblings alone.
And I can imagine is sitting inthat chart service, thinking
about how awesome her father isafter suffering such tragedy,
then having to care for her andher five siblings alone.
(05:23):
I can only imagine that's theNora was thinking that her
father deserved just as muchhonor and celebration as the
mother's was received.
So as the story goes the past ordecides to work with Sonora to
do something to honor fathers,Nora wanted this event to happen
on her father's birthday, whichwas June 5th, but because the
(05:48):
past I needed more time, ithappened the third Sunday of
June in 1910 at the local Y YMCA.
So that gives you a little bitof insight as to maybe why we
are having father's day thethird, Sunday in June, as
opposed to any other time.
Interesting.
Anyway, since 1910, the Northernwe smart dad and others campaign
(06:13):
to have a father's day over thecourse of time states and
locales began to take upobservance of that day.
So for those of you listening,who are social workers, it's
noted that Jane Adams pushed fora father's day in Chicago.
She did this in 1911, but shewas not successful.
(06:36):
Her efforts were rejected, butno that she also was part of
this campaigning for a father.
It's quite interesting.
So idea of having a father's daywas not only rejected by
Chicago.
It was rejected in large part bythe public, the public perceived
(06:59):
it to be a commercialmoney-making scheme and it just
became political.
And interestingly, so there's ascholar who gave an interesting
thought about that time and, um,scholar, Ralph LaRoza noted in
his book book that for thisparticular time, it was both a
(07:23):
politics of ideas and a politicsof the person, which I think
that particular summation is, isgood in his 19 70, 19 97 book is
where you can find it.
The name of the book is themodernization of fatherhood.
And I have added someinformation about that in the
(07:44):
show notes.
So you are welcome to take alook despite commercialization
of having a father's day ofobservance.
The day finally receivedrecognition as a national
holiday in 1972 in 2008.
And so some of you may alreadyknow this.
(08:05):
So Nora Louise smart Dodd wascommended by the 110th Congress
with a house resolution.
And that's how the resolution1274.
You can also find that in theshow notes.
Well, this house resolutionreads committed and things to
Nora smart dot for hercontribution and recognizing the
(08:27):
importance of father's day andrecognizing the important role
fathers play in our family'sawesome father's day is a great
day, but I have to say, I am onewho believes that a day is not
enough.
(08:47):
One day is just not enough tocelebrate others really more
than one day.
I have one birthday in the monththat my birthday comes around
and my birthday is at the end ofthe month.
So the month of my birthdaycomes around that first day, the
first of the month, I'mcelebrating.
(09:08):
It's like Jubilee.
I am celebrating the entiremonth, but that also doesn't
mean that father's day should befather's month.
What I mean is we need to be inhabit of recognizing our fathers
regularly.
And so it's great to have a day,but make sure you're not holding
(09:32):
out on showing appreciation andexpressing your love until that
one day.
You want to do it moreregularly.
You want to do it as often asyou can.
When you think about it, youwant to appreciate and celebrate
and honor fathers.
So with that being said,Juneteenth signed into law as a
(09:52):
permanent national holiday, justa couple of days ago.
And so now we have father's dayin June, teeth, observance and
celebration marking thesignificance of June on the
calendar.
We thought of June as father'sday, month now it's father's day
and freedom up.
(10:13):
I'm just excited.
I'm excited about fathers to becelebrated, not only today, but
again, we need to celebratethem.
Okay.
Or several types of fathers thatexist in the world.
There are biological fathers,grandfathers, stepfathers,
(10:37):
godfathers, divorced fathers,single fathers, teen fathers,
military fathers, and the listgo on.
Fathers are classified in thisway, helping us understand their
position.
But then we also ascribequalifiers like good, active,
absent, broke, present.
(10:58):
Awesome.
That beat wise hard work andplayful, lazy, strong.
The list goes on.
We are socially attuned at usingqualifiers, which helps us to
not only understand theirposition in some way, but to
decide how we relate to them.
(11:21):
Now, there is a type of fatherthat I did not mention whose
position as well as whosequalifier is often devalued
dismissed and thought of asinferior worthless.
I'm talking about incarceratedand formerly incarcerated
fathers incarcerated andformerly incarcerated fathers
(11:43):
are a type whose position iscompromised and who habitually
endure assaults to their fatherand capacity, both intention and
effort.
These fathers confront mountainsized obstacles around father,
and that is likely to be anexcess hindrance to their
ability, to restore, establish,and maintain meaningful
(12:07):
relationships with theirchildren, overshadowed by their
mistakes.
The worth of their father andexpression is often assumed in
the worst light.
And any efforts to connect areoften they're often regarded as
a nuisance.
My experience working withformerly incarcerated fathers,
(12:29):
incarcerated fathers, it hasconvinced me that these fathers
are valuable and their desire toconnect with their children is
in no way a nuisance.
So in honor, of father's day, Ipaid tribute with this podcast
to incarcerated and formerlyincarcerated fathers.
(12:51):
I celebrate you today.
I remember you today.
I also want you Sunday listenersto act in support of these
fathers.
Now keep in mind that support.
Can't just be held to one dayout of 365 days a year.
Although the motivation iscoming due to this one day
(13:15):
father's day, it is importantthat your support is ongoing.
And I make this call to actionbecause I recognized how
important it is for formerlyincarcerated and incarcerated
fathers to receive the supportof those who care.
So if you know an incarceratedfather and you are inclined to
(13:38):
support this observance offather's day, I ask that you
remember that incarceratedfather.
Now I'm not asking that you justthink about the person or take
pity in their situation.
I ask that you find a way tosupport them as a father.
Now sending a father's day cardis nice, but is it useful?
(14:00):
For instance, you can help afather keep up with his children
by helping him keep up with hischildren's education.
And you can do that by sendinghim a copy of a book.
The child is reading at school.
He can then engage the childaround whatever that child is
learning.
And, and then something similarcan also be done if the child
(14:21):
has a hobby or, or any otherinterests, whether it be sports
or art or dance or whatever,there are other ideas to
consider.
And I have included them in theshow notes.
So I encourage you to take alook at that list and consider
one of the ways to support thatincarcerated father.
(14:44):
You know, if you know a formerlyincarcerated father, the list
ideas also can be helpful.
It might be a need to adjust alittle bit, but the list
altogether is still usefulideas.
If you are, are caring for achild whose father is
incarcerated or formerlyincarcerated.
(15:07):
And if your tendency is tocreate barriers to connection, I
ask that you choose to avoidhindering the father's
connection to them, that child.
Now it may require some efforton your part to move away from
what you tend to do or what youtend to say, but make room to
(15:30):
allow that father and that childto connect, to build
relationship, to build the kindof connection that a father and
a child needs in order for thatchild to have a healthy process
of development.
If you are a child whose fatheris incarcerated or formerly
(15:53):
incarcerated, I encourage you toeither start or to continue
developing your relationshipwith your father.
I don't know what it will meanfor you to start or to develop
that relationship.
But by all means, if you havethe desire I encourage you to do
so and feel free to reach out tosomeone who will support you in
(16:18):
developing that relationshipwith your father.
If you're not sure, talk tosomeone and become sure, I'm
sure that having a relationshipwith your father is all the more
meaningful than not having arelationship with your father.
So I encourage you to takeaction.
(16:41):
Now, some may not appreciatethese thoughts I'm sharing right
now, maybe because of theperception held about
incarcerated and formerlyincarcerated fathers.
Now I'm not dimming.
I'm not dismissing the fact thatthese fathers have violated our
social norms by carrying outsome criminal act, but rather
(17:01):
I'm highlighting the fact thatincarcerated and formerly
incarcerated fathers matter.
And, and they are capable ofboth loving and building
healthy, meaningfulrelationships with their
children.
Look around.
You'll see many of these men whohave an are maintaining healthy,
meaningful relationships withtheir children, and that is
(17:24):
worth all the celebration it canget.
So we, so we have to honor thesefathers and doing so does not
mean they are no longeraccountable for their actions.
They are fathers of what youthink or how you feel.
They are fathers.
They come in all kinds of shapesand sizes and colors with their
(17:49):
unique personalities and ways ofexpression and interesting
experiences.
They are fathers.
So on this day held inobservance of fathers.
I salute you incarceratedfather.
I salute you formerlyincarcerated father.
(18:09):
As you grow in love and expressthat love to your children, it
will go deeper and farther thanyou will ever know.
Keep growing.
In honor of father's day, Iasked some friends to join me
(18:30):
and share their thoughts aboutfatherhood and being a father.
These interviews were previouslyrecorded separately.
My first guest is my friend U Sair force major retired Samuel
Moore.
He is a father of two andgrandfather of two.
My second guest is a coupleBryant and Kamora Mingo Kamaya,
(18:54):
and I have been friends for over15 years.
So I'm excited to have her onthe show.
This husband and wife team arehappily married with two
children.
Both of my guests have similarperspectives.
If you are a father, think aboutyour own perspectives about
fatherhood and being a father.
(19:15):
Consider your own response toeach question.
As you listen to these friendsof mine, speak Sam, welcome to
the show.
Thank you so much for joining intoday.
How are you?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I am doing awesome.
And thank you for inviting meand thank you very much for even
considering me to be a part ofyour show having so, so grateful
and thankful.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
You're welcome.
I absolutely thought about you.
Um, for sure.
So the show is a tribute tofatherhood, for sure.
You know that, and I know thatyou are a father.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yes.
I have a daughter, my daughter,she's 32 and my son and he's 26.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
So you've been a father for more than 30 years.
So you are definitely someonewho has some perspective on
fatherhood.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Oh, why thank you.
I try.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So I want to take you back a little bit.
Okay.
I want to take you back and Iwant to know what was it like
for you to transition from notbeing a father to being a
father.
Now I know you have to thinkback sometimes.
Hmm.
You know, what was it like foryou to transition, to make that
(20:30):
transition transition from notbeing a father to being,
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I would say for me the transition, wasn't that hard
that's because I'm an olderbrother and I have two younger
brothers, so I kind of helpedbring them up.
Not that my father wasn't aroundmy father was always around, but
I was all there helping andseeing what did to help us.
So by watching my father and byme helping me bring my brothers
up when it was my turn, when Ihad my kids, that transition
(20:56):
wasn't that hard, but it wasmore responsibility because it
was just me.
I'd wanted to make sure that mykids, um, had a good life.
Um, I was in the military totravel the world and I took them
with me.
So, uh, it was quite, um, Iexperienced being a father to
make sure that they acclimatedto all the changes.
So
Speaker 2 (21:15):
You mentioned you were in the military.
So talk to me a little bit aboutbeing a military father.
What, what was that like?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Well, that is the mapping.
Um, cause we moved every coupleof years and then, um, I had to
deploy, um, in the Saudi Arabiaa couple of times and Germany
and Italy and a lot of differentplaces.
So as I was gone, you know,there was still at home with
their mother and, um, but Istill had a father, you know, it
(21:44):
was one of those things.
When you get in trouble, I'mgoing to tell your dad on you.
So I'm out there in the middleof the desert saying, Hey, you
need to do your homework, youknow, but I was always there for
them.
You just got a couple ofcreative ways.
Um, as, as time as technologyprogressed, um, uh, I always
made sure that we did a videoconference or something that I
(22:04):
saw them and made sure that, uh,they knew I was a part of their
lives and that, that they wouldstill get in trouble even though
I wasn't there.
This gotta to say, you wait tillI get back home.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So for your children growing up, did they spend a lot
of time talking to you about,you know, being a dad and then
also your military career beingexcited about that or being
curious about that at all?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yes.
Um, I did find out from,especially my daughter, she's
the older one.
Um, she got to the positionwhere she actually liked moving
around every couple of yearscause she got to the, um, where
she liked meeting new people.
Um, also, so, um, she talked tome about that, that she enjoyed
the military lifestyle.
And then when my son came along,he actually did enjoy going to
(22:52):
the different places.
Um, we actually lived in Hawaiifor several years of my son.
He loved that.
So my daughter, she was incollege and because she was in
college and I was in Hawaii,they consider Hawaii, um,
separated from the actual UnitedStates.
But the military is big on, onfamily.
(23:13):
Um, they will saying my daughterto see me in Hawaii once a year
for free on the government dime.
So she loved that.
So part, so it has going back tothe two fathers.
He's like, I'm going to Hawaiito see my dad and the government
paid for it.
So, you know, so all of the kidsused to like that too.
(23:38):
And uh, my son, he lived there,he wasn't in school.
He went through high schoolthere and he loved growing up in
Hawaii.
So that helps them when youbring in a new father here
because I was a father who wasable to travel with me and, um,
they, they got respect for them.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Awesome.
I can only imagine.
Um, I was always curious aboutmy own dad's career in the
military growing up and I, Ididn't have the opportunities
that you just shared with youwith me that your children had,
but I was always curious abouthis job and his rose and what he
did, and even, you know, beyondmilitary interests in when he
(24:17):
transitioned.
And, um, you know, what I knowof more is him going and being a
postal worker, postal serviceworker.
And I was always curious aboutthat and what his life was like
doing that work.
So I think naturally childrenare curious about their fathers
work, their career, what they'redoing and how they can learn
(24:41):
more about it.
And you know, how cool is itthat their dad is doing this,
that and the other.
So I can only imagine howexciting it was for your own
children, you being in themilitary and the air force more
specifically, and being able toshare that with your children.
So that, that is
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Awesome.
The kids love that.
Cause we've moved severalplaces.
I just mentioned a why, but wemoved to California and we lived
in the south, in South Carolina,we lived in Oklahoma.
We lived in Texas and mydaughter, she was born there in
Texas, but with her growing upand moving around, she took
enjoyment out of moving around,also in meeting new and
(25:21):
different people.
So that was real good.
Cause it comes back to thefather.
Cause she always say I movedaround because of my dad
Speaker 2 (25:30):
And my son.
So that brings me to anotherquestion that I would like for
you to share about in, in youropinion, what does it mean to be
a father growing
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Up with my father in my home and then transitioning
to the military, they'd be afamily.
Uh, what it means to me to be afather, to be responsible and
traps or rear or bring your kidsup so they could be successful
and I'm wanting to bring them upand rear them up.
So they gain be more successfulthan myself.
So what does it mean to be afather is to, to raise your
(26:05):
kids, to bring them up withproper manners and to set them
up for success and let themfollow so they could follow
their dreams.
One thing I always tell themthat they have the whole world
who I tell them now they've gotthe whole universe in they hand
and I would like to set them forsuccess so they could follow
their dreams to do whatever theywant to become.
So that's what fatherhood meansto me is the weirdo.
(26:25):
So they could be successful andbe whatever they want to be.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Did this meaning to you that it changed over time?
Meaning at the start of yourfathering life?
Was it one perspective and thenover time, your perspective
changed or expanded or?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yes.
So now, so now my kids havekids, so I'm a grandfather.
Um, my son has a daughter.
My son has a border and mydaughter has a son.
I'm lucky.
I got one of everything, oneson, one daughter and grandson,
one granddaughter.
But as we're growing up, youknow, that's, the kids are
growing up.
You have them where you tellthem, um, where you ask them to
(27:06):
do things, you know, locally inyour room.
They'll do this, they'll dothat, go to the store for me.
But as they get older andteenage years into their
adulthood, your fatherhoodchanged from more of being
you're their father, but youbecome more real advisors has to
say, you know, you don't tellthem to go do this.
You say, you know, I think youshould do this.
It's up to you if you're goingto follow my advice or not.
(27:28):
So the role does change frombeing a father, father figure as
to a father advisor figure.
So yes, it does change, but Ithink that actually grows,
grows.
Um, the relationship betweenyour children and your father,
um, closer and as they get kids.
And I'm sure you always heardthis old quote because they're
(27:49):
saying that now with their CS,I've started to sound more like
my parents.
So I guess that's a good thing.
That's common as you, as you getolder, you
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Start to hear that more and more.
Well, I know you have a lot ofexperiences with being a father.
Can you think of one right nowthat you hold near and dear,
whether it's an experience withyour daughter or your son, do
you have an experience that youhold near and dear?
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, I actually haven't found several.
Um, but the one I want to say is, um, actually helping them grow
up and letting them learn thethings of life.
What I mean by that I hold nearand dear teaching them how to
ride a bike.
Um, teaching them how to dry.
I'm teaching them little thingsof one to the store and learning
how to shop and also spendingtime together of doing homework,
(28:46):
you know, helping them withtheir homework in math.
And they're seeing that, I guessthat my answers are right when
they go to school to set up thatthey come back and say, Hey, you
know, that was right.
But there's those things likethat, that I took a lot of pride
in that I hold near and dear,because those are good times.
And, um, you know, you onlylearn, they only learn how to
(29:06):
ride a bike once they only learnto drive once you know, their
driver's license.
You know, I remember, um, bothon son and daughter at different
times, especially my daughter.
I was asleep on a Saturday andshe I'm waking me up and said,
dad, I think I'm ready.
Let's go get my driver'slicense.
And you know, so that's amemory, that's your memory will
remember for the rest of herlicense saying, well, my son,
Speaker 2 (29:30):
That's awesome.
Um, I'm sitting here thinkingback now to that time for me.
And, uh, it was quite stressful.
It definitely was stressful.
So needing to have your dadthere to support you and to help
you along and to help ease someof the frustration and anxiety
(29:53):
around that driver's license oreven taking the driver's license
test is, is definitelyimportant.
So I appreciate you bringingthat out.
That kind of brought back somememories for me.
There you go.
You and I talk often and we talkabout a lot of things, not
(30:15):
always obviously, related tobeing a father or being a
parent, so to speak, but for thesake of our conversation today,
we recently shared some commentsabout a movie by the name of
fences that had several scenesin it related to fathering.
(30:39):
And as we speak there, there wthere is a colorful conversation
or discussion happening rightnow on social media about this
particular movie and itsportrayal of fathering.
And I have to get your thoughtson, uh, the, the one clip where
(31:00):
the son came and he was supposedto do some chores and he didn't
get his chores done at the timethat he was supposed to get
them.
And, you know, he ended uptransitioning to this
conversation about buying a TVand there was this talk about
$200 and what you can do with$200.
And then he asked his dad, well,you know, why don't you like me?
(31:22):
And you know, this whole scenewas quite interesting, but this
one scene is sparking a lot ofconversation.
So I have to ask you about thisone scene and what you think
about it with regard tofathering in your opinion, that
(31:42):
scene or that movie as a whole,would you say it portrays what
it means to be a father or theresponsibility of fathering?
How would you characterize thismovie with regard to bothering?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
So, um, the spit it out, they're talking about movie
fences where you Denzel you didan excellent job acting there
and his son, I don't rememberthe actor there.
I think it was a point of toughlove.
So I'm going to talk about whatyou're talking about, the actual
scene and then high interpretedit and go a little bit further
than that.
So actually the scene is thisDenzel, he just tried to show
(32:19):
the son that his son asked him,why don't you like me?
And I think that was just a wayof Denzel showing him that.
Does he like him?
He doesn't really like him.
Yes.
He love him.
Why does he love him?
Because he go to work everysingle day.
He makes sure that he has a roofover his head.
He makes sure he got food andstuff.
He said, he made sure he gotclothes on his back.
You know, that's not like that'slove, but that's just a
(32:40):
different way of showing them.
You're showing me tough love.
You hear that all the time.
So that's what that scene wasabout.
So then they were talking aboutthe television, you know, the
young young man, you know, hesaid, Hey, let's get a TV for
$200.
And then the fat and the fatherDenzel said, you know what?
I see, I see a roof that needsto be repaired.
And he said, because this riftdon't get repaired.
(33:00):
The whole house is going to comedown.
And the young young man wassaying, you know, well, why
don't we just pay it off alittle bit at a time?
So this is another teachermoment.
Then Zelle was saying, pay it upa little at a time.
No, don't do that.
Save your money and get it allat one time.
So where I'm going with this,the top button of the future.
Perfect example, when I wassaying that, um, I sounded more
(33:21):
like my father.
I think that was a very goodteaching moment in that movie of
tough love could, because Icould see in the future when the
son has kids, he's going to gothrough that same thing.
And you're going to say, saveyour money.
Now this is a son.
Tell him to his kids to begrandkids, save you, buy
something off at the same timeand do something that is going
(33:43):
to be more beneficial at thattime as a repair on the roof, as
opposed to getting a TV.
So that teaching moment is notonly good at that moment there
with his son, but it's going togo to his grandkids and to his
great grandkids.
That thing that was actually anexcellent piece is just done a
different way and just a toughlove moment, but definitely a
(34:04):
life learning moment.
So I thought it was in very goodteaching moment of life of
father.
So I appreciate
Speaker 2 (34:11):
You for saying that because I definitely find that
the significant role that afather plays is to help the
family prioritize needs andwants.
And I, and I think that thatparticular clip of the movie
portraying that what is a one,what is the need?
(34:32):
And we have to prioritize, wehit it's that it's, that need to
hold tight to whatever theresponsibility is.
And I think that lesson wasabout responsibility.
And it's interesting that youmentioned this idea of love,
because I don't believe in thatparticular clip, the idea of
love came forward as to say he,he uses the term love.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah.
Cause he's at that time with dad, but it, that it was, it was
implied.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
It was implied, but the way that it seemed to the
way I understand it, what wasbeing put forward more was this
idea of responsibility.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
And that's turned into the young man to a man
because as a man, you have someresponsibility to take care of
your son.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Okay.
That's how I understood it aswell.
And I did appreciate thatparticular clip, but I also
recognize that there are thosewho find that the delivery that
was in that particular clip wasnot positive.
It was negative.
It was degrading.
(35:46):
It was, you know, overall itlacked that demonstration of, I
love you.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Well, his delivery, it was, it was tough.
And what I said, I mentionedearlier, it was tough love, and
that's what it was.
And you know, some people havetough love.
And I think everybody, everyparent, every that goes through
experience where you have togive tough love.
So it's not going to be, youknow, ice cream with cherry
(36:13):
cherry on top of it, you know,you gotta be tough about it.
And in that moment also, he wasso on how to change a young man
into a man, man, or a boy to aman.
And that's what theresponsibility was about also.
So you have to be tough.
So yeah, some people arefeathers would probably ruffled
the wrong way, but in the end, Ithink it's probably best for the
(36:33):
young young man.
Cause I think it was just thatsame, but I think there is
occasions where every dad has toshow tough love, you know, and
that's what he was doing, thathe was showing, showing tough
love.
And so, you know what it takesto dab responsibility, but it
takes to be a father.
And that's what he was saying.
You know, I'm your father, youknow, and it is my
(36:54):
responsibility to do this.
And that was translating to whenyou become a father, it's your
responsibility to take care ofyour kids.
So there's going to be timeswhen you might not like your
kids, that's what he was saying,but he's still gonna, you know,
have to take care of, you know,and set them up for success.
So I think it was, uh, a goodportrayal.
(37:15):
I think his, um, lifelike, youknow, everyone might not do it
in that situation, but I thinkthere is a situation that will
come along where people willshow tough love and it will come
out the same way.
Like can a father, you know, hehas a very significant gift
figure and young men and youngwomen, you were talking about
that clip when, um, I sawanother clip when, uh, it was
(37:37):
actually the talk show of SteveHarvey and he was asking a
question and the lady was sayingthat she remarried, but her son
was acting out all the time.
And Steve Harvey, he said, youknow, he's not a professional,
but he's a mentor.
And he seen this before.
He said, the reason the youngman was acting out all the time
because the relationship that hehas with his original data
(37:58):
stream, and then the lady saidthat was correct.
So, you know, the father playsan important role in young man's
life.
Well then it would be productivecitizens in the future.
So it was very, very, veryimportant in my, my opinion.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I have to agree with youfathers definitely play, uh, an
important role and, you know,without fathers, I, I can't even
imagine, you know, where wewould be just as, you know,
humanity as human beings on theearth, we need fathers and we
(38:35):
definitely need to do more tocelebrate our fathers that are
in our communities, our fathersthat are in our neighborhoods,
the fathers that we haveconnection and relationship
with, we need to make sure thatwe spend quality time
encouraging, inspiring as wellas celebrating our father.
So with that being said, I wantto celebrate you right now and
(38:58):
just say, thank you so much forbeing the father that you are
for doing the work that you didover the years to raise your
children and to help them get onthe path that they need to get
on in order for them to besuccessful.
It's so important that you as afather were present in your
(39:18):
kids' lives and that they knowthat you are present and that
they know that they could counton you for whatever the
reasoning was.
And you were always there.
So I just want to say thank youto you because other, you being
a father, it definitely helpedto build community our sons and
our daughters make up thecommunity and the neighborhoods
(39:39):
that we live in.
And the more that we have strong, uh, fathers raising children
and, and ring them up from theperspective of strong men and
women empowerment and women,responsible men, men, and women
in growing into being mature menand women, it only helps to make
(40:03):
our communities and ourneighborhoods all the more
better.
So I just want to say, thank youfor being a good father and
continuing even now, althoughyour kids are grown and they're
out on their own thing, youknow, you're still being who you
need to be as a father in thisperiod of, in this stage of your
life.
And then of course you have yourgrandchildren, which I know for
(40:25):
sure that you're pouring intotheir lives in a significant
way.
So I just want to say, thankyou.
I celebrate you.
You, you are a good father and Ithank you so much for joining me
today and taking out some timeto share with me your
perspective on fathering andalso sharing a little bit of
your experiences as well.
Not just with me, but also withmy Sunday listeners.
(40:47):
We thank you.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I'm honored where you even thinkof me to be part of your
podcast.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
You're welcome.
And I just hope that you willcome back and join us another
time.
Can I count on you for that?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Most definitely.
I would call it and watch youinterview someone else.
You didn't quite get that.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Come back and join me another time.
And maybe we could talk aboutsome other interesting topics.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Yes, I would love to.
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
I like it.
All right, Sam.
Well, you enjoy the rest of yourday and we'll talk again soon.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
All right.
Sounds great.
You have a great day.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I have with me, my dear friend[inaudible] and her
husband, Brian, I'm so excitedto have them.
And I particularly wanted tohave Brian on the show, because
again, this episode is all aboutcelebrating father's and he is
an African-American father.
And I wanted him to come andtalk a little bit, share a
little bit about his fatherexperience and maybe some
(41:54):
perspective on what it means tobe a father.
So Kamaya and Brian, welcome tothe show.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Thank you for having us so much
Speaker 2 (42:04):
For taking the time to come and visit with us.
So Brian, you are anAfrican-American father.
I'm so excited that you decidedto come and share with us today
and you have a tube.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
And I am.
I thank you for evenhighlighting African-American
debts that is oftentimesoverlooked in our communities.
So I appreciate that.
And yes, two beautiful children,one grown, grown shout, and one
young.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Awesome.
So you say one grown child hasgrown
Speaker 3 (42:41):
19, maybe 2011 going on 12.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Time flies by.
So obviously you haven't alwaysbeen a father.
So talk to us about what it waslike for you to transition from
not being a father to being
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Well, one for the most part is consistently
putting selfishness aside, youknow, um, as a single person, a
single father, a single man, youknow, a lot of times it's based
off of what I want, what I wantto do, where I want to go.
And I honestly, um, I tell himthis all the time, my kids saved
(43:26):
my life and I can't put it anyother way than that.
And I tell them that they, theysaved my life.
I will, I don't know where Iwould be without my kids being
in my life.
They bring a new perspective.
I mean, I would say anyone, man,that doesn't have a child, you
know, that's the biggestrepresentation of God is
especially being an operatingroom.
(43:46):
It changes everything for me.
So, um, from not being a fatherto being a father, I would say
selfishness, we gotta put thataside.
Oh man, you begin to really livethrough your children.
I lived through my children allthe time.
They keep me young.
They keep me alive.
They keep me well, if I'mworking out with them,
(44:07):
exercising with them, playingwith them, everything changes.
Fatherhood comes into play.
To be honest with you, it'snever a dull moment.
I don't look at me time anymore.
Their time is my time.
When you want to be a fatherthat excites you so much,
children excites me.
They bring a new level to mylife.
(44:29):
You know, even if we weremarried, no children.
I think man, the state young tostay energetic is hard too.
When you don't have children,it's kind of it's blend now for
me.
So I think that's the biggestdifference.
Not being selfish and actuallythinking and considering our
children in everything I do.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
And I do appreciate you forhighlighting that, you know,
need to be selfless when itcomes to taking care of children
and being responsible forchildren.
And that's, to me, I think isreally critical, is really key.
So what are some of your fondestmemories over the last 19 years
(45:11):
let's say of, of experiencingfatherhood.
Do you have any, any favoritememories?
I have
Speaker 3 (45:20):
A problem in that area and it is very difficult
for me.
I'm a little different becauseall my time is valuable.
Every moment with my families isno greater moment than last.
So it was very hard for me tohighlight one area that I'm
like, this is like the moment,you know, it seems like I could
(45:41):
give moments of transitioningwhere it's a highlight, but then
it's doing it just this justiceto the moments before then the
little things add up to the bigthing.
So I can't dismiss any smallmoments to highlight a big
moment.
I mean, I have goals for myfamily.
I wanted passports for, so atthe post office getting actually
(46:03):
getting the passport, I was likea little overly excited maybe on
pouring through me because itwas a goal that I actually had
for my family to actually getpassports going on vacation with
my family.
That's always been a big dreamand goal of mine as a young
person, without a family orchildren, helping my son get a
(46:26):
car, teaching my daughter, howto drive early, but then playing
Barbie dolls with my daughters.
I can't dismiss that, you know,on, so it's hard to really
highlight one area over the nextbecause all my time with my
family was very valuable.
We should be like, that pieceshould be home away from the
(46:47):
world, my town, with my familiesat every moment.
There's no special moment overthe other one is very, that
question was hard.
It was.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah.
I can appreciate that.
I appreciate definitely all thatyou have shared because I, I do
agree that time with family isdefinitely valuable and it's not
something that you can put aprice tag on it or, um, it's
like those forever memories andperish them for, you know, the
lifetime.
So I do appreciate,
Speaker 3 (47:18):
And I'll give an example on that really quick.
For instance, like we, we usedto go on vacations and those are
big, but then there's momentsthat my daughter will be like,
daddy, let's go.
I want to ride my bike aroundthe corner, you know?
And I don't feel like going, butI do it anyway.
And then after I do it, I feelamazing and I feel better.
(47:40):
I feel energetic.
And I thank her for that.
I say, listen, and I verballytell her that because I think
that's important.
And I'll tell her, thank you forgetting me up and walking with
you while you ride your bikearound the corner.
Those moments like that can beoverlooked when my body felt
better than it did when I said Ididn't feel like it.
(48:03):
So that's what I mean byhighlighting something like a
vacation over moments like that.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And when I'm listening to you, Ihear you say strength and
sacrifice.
That's what I'm getting out ofwhat you're saying.
And that, that means a lot justto have strength, but your
strength is not coming from yourphysical, your physical ability
or capacity it's strength.
(48:29):
And you sacrificing your time,sacrificing your effort towards
someone else's benefit.
And I think that is so profoundand so significant when it comes
to just life in itself and thevalue of life in itself.
So this kind of brings me toanother question that I would
(48:52):
love to ask you.
And that is about fathering intoday's world and today's
culture does what our culture itrepresents today.
Does that make fathering eventhe more necessary for you or
(49:13):
even the more meaningful orvaluable to you or does that not
even matter?
It's the, the role, it's theduty, it's the love, it's the
sacrifice.
It's the, the desire, the desirewithin to be who you need to be
for your children?
(49:34):
What, what do you say or what,what is there that you think
should be said about being afather?
And
Speaker 3 (49:42):
I would, um, unfortunately I don't really
like the word culture.
It puts us in a box that we tendto want to live up to.
That is a false narrative.
I am culture, everything withinme.
And it may not coincide with howyou may feel, how you may raise
(50:04):
your child.
Or I think fatherhood isregardless of cultural or
religion or race is fatherhood.
And when we begin to just saythat it's important to raise
your children based off of yourmistakes and enlighten them and
let them know you're notperfect.
(50:25):
And I make mistakes, I'm makingmistakes with my children.
I apologize to my children of mymistakes to them.
I think that's important.
Um, I speak to them.
What do you think I did wrong?
Um, and then we can talk aboutthat and I can talk about how
certain things made me angryversus things that they made
(50:46):
them angry or upset about me.
So raising them culture just inthe world today is difficult.
We in a difficult space rightnow, I just try to raise them to
respect everybody because Irespect everybody.
(51:08):
I respect them.
And I demonstrate that by whenI'm wrong, I'm wrong.
And I apologize to them forthat.
That's me showing them respect,no matter the age, color, creed,
it doesn't matter.
Religion.
I raised them up to respecteverybody doesn't matter.
(51:30):
And how I see that is if I don'tshow them respect, how can I
raise them and teach them torespect people and everyone,
when I might do something wrongwith them, or I might upset
them.
And if I'm older or I'm yourelder, it doesn't matter.
Kind of do.
As I say, not as I do that,doesn't apply in this household.
(51:54):
I got to lead by example,meaning if I do something wrong
is wrong is not do.
As I say, not as I do.
I can't sit back and dosomething and expect you not to
do it.
I have to lead by example, if Ido you wrong and I have to
apologize to you, I have tostand for as a man to apologize
(52:14):
to you and say, Hey, I was wrongand how can I get it?
Right?
You got to any bridge, you burn,any mistakes you make is your
job to now fix it.
As parents, as a father, I can'traise my daughter to look for a
man that doesn't do anythingless than what I'm doing.
(52:37):
So to raise up, to follow a manor be with a man that can
apologize to his children orapologize to anyone that is all
he is less than him is, is notright.
So that's the way I try to raisethem regardless of the
environment or space that we in,respect everyone at every time,
(53:01):
wrong is wrong.
If you wrong, apologize, youknow, that's how you grow.
And you can learn from thatregardless of the culture.
I think that's how you developyour culture and what your
legacy will be and how you willbe seen in how your grandkids
and great grandkids will be ableto look up to you and see you in
(53:24):
certain.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Well, I appreciate your answer and I, and I
appreciate your, the perspectivethat you bring as a father.
And I, I, I recognize thatculture is definitely a topic of
, um, hot discussion.
And it is one is just thinkingabout culture as a whole,
(53:47):
because there are subcultures.
And even as a father, no onefather, parents or fathers the
same.
And so I appreciate you for justmaking mention of the fact of
the diversity and just being afather and just being a man or
just being, you know, someonewho is taking up that
(54:08):
responsibility for theirchildren or for their family as
a whole.
But what blared out to me inyour talk was being an example.
And I think that is somethingimportant to take away from this
discussion, being an example.
And I think fathers can be greatexamples for their children and
(54:28):
I, and in my experience,children look to their fathers
and seek example from theirfathers.
So the fact that I hear yousaying that something that you
intentionally purposefully do asa father, as you exercise your
(54:50):
role and your responsibility asa father, you seek to be that
example.
I think that's great becausethat's, that's a game changer,
Speaker 3 (55:00):
One culture to beat any the excuse because I'm a
black man, but there's, I couldcome across a white man and
should he use his culture as anexcuse for something that might
be wrong?
It shouldn't be a barrier how weraising our children as fathers.
(55:21):
Um, and specificallyAfrican-American fathers is less
go beyond that.
Now let's, let's look beyondthat.
Just don't treat anybodydifferent, you know, and that
can change our, even ourneighborhoods, right?
And then they B they cantransition from a neighborhood
to a community.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
Yeah.
But that's that, that's what Imeant by your point of being an
example, because you, you,because you have, you know,
thinking about the fact that,you know, there are fathers who
are biological, you know,biological fathers, then you
have fathers, then you havesocial fathers and this, this
idea of father can be quitebroad.
(56:03):
And so if you think of fatherand you put this idea of, you
know, fathers intentionally andpurposefully being an example to
children, then when I say that'sa game changer, I mean, that's a
game changer for not only thefamily unit, but for the
neighborhood, for the community,for the city, for the state, for
(56:27):
the country, for beyond, andthat's the power of fathers.
And so you're basically bringingout what I think is in, is
important to note about fathers.
As we celebrate fathers in thisday of observing fathers, I
think it's something to bringout and to point out.
(56:47):
So you, you literally havepointed out several critical
facts that I thought that Ithink is really important to
highlight, especially today, butnot just today and, you know,
celebrating fathers.
Shouldn't just be one day.
It's an every day thing that weneed to do.
(57:07):
We need to begin to develop ahabit to appreciate everyone,
hopefully those who are taken upthat mantle to raise the next
generation.
So I kudos to you kudos to you.
Thank you so much for yourstrength and your strong, um,
(57:32):
uh, conviction of being a fatherand doing the very thing that
your heart desires to do, whichis to love your children and to
take care of them in the bestway that you possibly can.
And it's all good.
And I appreciate, I appreciatethat for sure.
So since this is celebrationtime, you know, for fathers,
(57:54):
this is the day that has beenobserved for fathers to
celebrate them.
What, what is the celebrationgoing to look like for you?
What are you doing today?
What are, what are, where areyou going?
What's happening?
What's the celebrate
Speaker 3 (58:08):
In my house.
Father's day is every day.
So my work for father's day andfor father's day weekend, my
daughter really wanted me tospend some time with them
instead of working.
So they're going to be taking meaway to the beach she wants to
take me to.
So that's what we are allowingher to do.
(58:30):
And she's very thoughtful.
My kids are pretty thoughtful.
I try to explain to them afather's day is every day they
are.
They're my gift.
They're my life saver.
They are my gift.
So every day I get to spend withthem, um, I'm good with that.
So anything extra is over thetop for me.
And I explained to them, theyknow that my daughter gave me a
(58:52):
couple months ago.
She put a dollar in an envelopeand gave it to me and wrote,
please keep it because she isvery hard for me to keep that
type of stuff.
But again, every little thing,you know,
Speaker 2 (59:05):
Awesome.
So Kamora is here.
I would love to hear what youwould like to share.
Is there anything that you wantto add to what your husband has
already said about him being afather or about your
appreciation of him as a father?
(59:26):
What, what is it that you say?
Well, one of the main
Speaker 3 (59:29):
Things that I appreciate about Brian is as
being a father is hisconsistency.
Uh, one thing I can say is he'sconsistent when he promises our
children things, and it's not somuch of material things, it can
be something basic.
Like he said, as far as ourdaughter want to go ride her
(59:50):
bike and she'll ask you, he'llsay, yeah, you know, I'll take
it and he'll go, no matter howhe feels, how tired he is.
So he's consistent, even withour son, the same stuff, when it
comes to exercising, he'll say,Hey, there's, you know, one play
football, you know, let's goworkout.
(01:00:10):
So when it comes to that, he'llsay we can do that and they'll
do that.
And he tells him, you know,listen, if you want to be great,
you have to stick to it.
You have to be consistent.
So he practiced consistency.
So I believe that when ourchildren see that that's a good
teaching moment for them to seethat and he'll do his best to
(01:00:33):
make it happen no matter what.
So that's the, one of thebiggest things when it comes to
consistency, that he tries hisbest to follow through with
everything that he promises themand he wants them to see that
anything is possible.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Awesome.
Well, thank you both for joiningus today and sharing a little
bit happy father's day.
And I celebrate with youalthough far, um, I, I celebrate
with you and I wish you all thebest.
And I just want to say that, uh,thank you just for being a
(01:01:08):
father and for being a fatherwho is not only responsible, but
present a father who is loving afather who is putting forth, um,
in investing as much as yourselfas you possibly can in order to
not only raise your children,but also put them on the path
(01:01:28):
for success.
So kudos to the two of you.
Thank you both for joining intoday.
And I look forward to talkingwith you again real soon
Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
With you for having us.
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Take care.
You too.
I know my friends and I thankthem for their contribution to
this show.
Thank you guys.
One guest who was unfortunatelyunable to join me today was my
(01:02:09):
father.
Although he was not able to joinme.
I want to take a few moments tohonor him.
Now, my interesting character,he is, he definitely is not a
perfect person, but he has agreat heart.
(01:02:29):
And he has been in my life allof my life.
And he has done some amazingthings to connect and build our
relationship over the years,growing up, my father and I did
not live in the same home.
He lived in a different stateafter some point in time.
(01:02:50):
And I lived in New Jersey andgrew up in New Jersey.
But although we were apart, myfather did all that he needed to
do in order to develop andmaintain a relationship with me.
He would visit me of course, buthe also would do things like
(01:03:14):
write letters and write these,you know, heartwarming, you
know, even mushy cards, right?
You know, the kind of cars thatfathers, you know, try to make
you cry cards.
And he would, you know, we wouldhave these long conversations on
the phone and he was alwaysinterested in what was going on
with me.
So we would be on the phone forhours and just talking and I
(01:03:37):
would just be pouring out andjust telling him every, every
little detail about what's goingon in my life.
And we talked often when we wereapart, when I was a child, he,
you know, would of course thegifts and all that, but he would
never fail to make sure that Iknew that he loved me and that
he was there for me in anythingthat I needed.
(01:03:59):
He was there.
And it was true.
My relationship with my fatherdeveloped so deeply to where I
always considered myself to be afather, a father, girl, you know
, daddy's girl as they call it.
And over the years, um, I beganto, you know, move around as I
grew older.
And, uh, eventually we were ableto get in the same state, but my
(01:04:24):
relationship with my fathernever broke.
It was always close all theyears of my life.
Even to this day, he is the oneman that I trust the most.
And he is someone who he'll tellyou the truth.
So the conversations we have,he's told me, you know, things
that there are times I'm like,you know, I don't want to hear
(01:04:46):
that.
I don't want you to tell me thatthat's, you know, but he'll
tell, you know, he'll tell thetruth.
He's a God-fearing man.
So we have good conversationsand we don't always agree, or
you're always agreeing, trustme, we don't always agree.
But even when we don't agree,what's left is me knowing that
(01:05:06):
he loves me no matter what, evenwhen I make mistakes, he was
always there to love me.
Never, you know, blamed me or henever raided or any of that,
even when I would make mistakes,you know, as I'm growing and
learning and he would alwaysjust be there.
And he, whenever we were aroundeach other, he would hug and he
(01:05:30):
would just, you know, theaffection was always there.
So I, I did not feel like my dadwas not present.
He always was present, eventhough he may not have been
physically present.
And so I honor my dad todaybecause he did all that he knew
(01:05:50):
to do in order to develop arelationship with me, his first
born.
And I so appreciate thesacrifices that he made and all
the work that he put in to makesure that not only I knew that
he loved me, but that he showedit.
(01:06:11):
It wasn't just spoken, but itwas in what he did.
And even to this day, I can pickup the phone and my dad would
answer and he would talk to meand I would talk to him and I
can tell my dad anything.
I literally, to this day stilltell my dad everything.
It doesn't matter.
How, how good, how bad, howugly, how, whatever I can tell
him anything.
(01:06:32):
And he was, he's always therenot only to listen, but he also
gives some wisdom in that aswell.
And if I don't want his wisdom,he still gives it.
Um, even if, uh, I don't ask, healways offers into listen to
(01:06:53):
him.
Sometimes tell his stories ofhim growing up.
And, and I, I gained, I gained abetter understanding of who he
is now based on all of the, allthe stories that he's told over
the years.
So anyway to you, that thank youfor being you.
(01:07:16):
Thank you for loving me andalways being there for me.
Happy father's day.
Can you agree that fathers areawesome?
Well, if you agree with me, thatfathers are awesome.
(01:07:39):
Be sure to help the fathers inyour life reach their awesome
potential.
I enjoy thinking and talkingabout fathers.
As we celebrate all across thenation today saying happy
father's day to one another andshowing happy father's day to
the loved ones in your life bygiving gifts and words of
(01:08:03):
expression of love.
Continue to do that throughoutthe year.
If you enjoy this episode, writea review to share your thoughts,
share this podcast with othersand subscribe wherever you
listen to podcasts.
To keep up with this show,connect with me through email,
(01:08:24):
then messages to S S inspiredcast at Gmail that com S S
inspired cast at Gmail.
That com until next time,Sunday, listeners, be sure to
live.
Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Thank you for listening to Sundays with
Chevelle subscribe, wherever youlisten to podcasts and be sure
to tune in next time for anothersocial work inspired episode.
Bye-bye.
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