December 8, 2025 • 49 mins
The map looks simple until the trees vanish. Then the wind takes over, the horizon stretches for days, and every choice you make—gear, timing, route—has to respect a landscape that doesn’t bend. We sit down with Jim Gallagher and Brian Johnston, a two-person team with 16 years and 5,600 kilometres of Arctic canoe travel, to unpack how they keep remote trips calm, safe, and deeply rewarding.
They walk us through the real logistics of going north: choosing between floatplanes and wheel landings, why a pack canoe that fits in a hockey bag can change your budget and route options, and how to plan circle routes from communities like Yellowknife and Baker Lake when charters fall through. We talk gear that actually helps—freestanding shelters for treeless tundra, white gas stoves when fire bans and driftwood scarcity collide, and a modest solar panel that still charges on cloudy, cold days. With 24-hour daylight, they skip headlamps and sometimes start paddling at 3 a.m. to beat the wind.
On the water, humility beats bravado. Jim and Brian share how whitewater skills, lining, and smart portages open up far more rivers than running every rapid. We swap stories of caribou herds clattering across riverbanks, a distant grizzly minding its own forage, seal skulls hinting at the coast, and lake trout and grayling that turn a campsite into a feast—though never a food plan. The theme is consistency: clear routines, conservative decisions, and simple systems that avoid tent failures, canoe mishaps, and food shortages, so the focus stays on wild country and long, quiet miles.
If you’re dreaming of bigger trips—whether that’s a classic like the Thelon, Kazan, or Coppermine, or a creative link between obscure watersheds—you’ll hear practical advice on courses, clubs, mentors, and building judgment alongside skill. Come for the Arctic canoe tips and expedition planning; stay for the honest take on comfort, resilience, and why an uneventful trip can be the best kind of epic. Enjoy the conversation, then share it with a paddling friend, hit follow, and leave a review to help others find the show.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Uh hello and good day.
Welcome to the Super GoodCamping Podcast.
My name is Pamela.
SPEAKER_02 (00:04):
I'm Tim.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
And we are from SuperGoodcamping.com.
We're here on a mission toinspire other people to get
outside and enjoy campingadventures such as we have as a
family.
Today's guests are two gentlemenfrom the lovely province of
Manitoba and the state ofMinnesota.
We were introduced to them bySteve from Sulek46.
He got to meet them on a recenttrip in the Northwest
Territories and was blown awayby some of their epic tripping.
(00:27):
They've been canoe trippingtogether for about 16 years and
have logged 5,600 kilometerstogether.
Please welcome Jim Gallagher andBrian Johnston.
Yay, welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (00:39):
Thank you.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Thanks for coming and having you act with us
today.
SPEAKER_02 (00:43):
Yeah.
First question out of the gateis how did you two manage to
sort of get together and starttripping?
SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
Well, um, I I think Brian and I met at uh the far
north symposium in Minneapolis.
I think Brian, Brian came downfor that.
I forget if you were presentingor just coming down to see uh
see a see some presentations,and that was you know some time
ago now.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
But yeah, money been when I presented on the on the
Dog River going into LakeSuperior.
SPEAKER_03 (01:12):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Uh and there's two big symposiums.
There's the wilderness one inToronto and the one in
Minneapolis.
SPEAKER_03 (01:19):
So yeah, so we we met at the one in Minneapolis,
and I was uh I've done some uhtripping, you know, some canoe
trips with other people over theyears, and uh Lee Sessions was
uh um a uh uh a guy that uh Itripped with.
Uh you know, we planned a numberof trips with, and and we needed
(01:40):
a uh we needed uh anotherpartner on on a trip.
And we recruited Brian uh youknow for the trip on the Mara
and uh Burnside Rivers uh goingback, what was that, 2009?
2009 for that trip inparticular.
And uh and bat and Brian and Ipaddled together uh on that
(02:01):
trip, and and it was so nice topaddle with somebody who had
really exceptional whitewaterskills, and uh, you know, you
learn things from the people youtravel with.
And I, you know, on that trip, II certainly learned a lot and uh
sort of opened, you know, openedup the door to you know, to many
(02:24):
more trips after that.
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Yeah, and then from there we did some trips together
as a group, but not paddlingtogether.
I paddled one trip with uh go acouple trips with my old
traveling partner that I hadbeen traveling with, and it took
until I think 2013, so anotherfour years before Jim and I
locked into a two-person teamthat we've been since that's
easy, 12 years then.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Well, yeah, I mean, over 5,600 kilometers, that's
I've been tripping for a while.
I I have nowhere near that, likenowhere.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Um so how did you each each as individuals get
into that kind of tripping?
SPEAKER_03 (03:05):
Um, well, you know, I I started work uh in the
boundary waters canoe area, youknow, just opposite of the
Quedeco.
And uh I was a wilderness rangeruh uh in the boundary waters
with the Forest Service.
I did that for five, six years,and um, you know, I moved on to
other jobs in the ForestService, but that was sort of
(03:26):
the beginning of my interest inin canoe tripping.
And and I didn't take my firstArctic trip until 1992, and
that's where the real learningbegan, you know.
Um so you know, the first Arctictrip, you know, sort of the
scales fell away from my eyesand realized there was this
(03:48):
whole region of North Americathat you know was just wild, and
you know, the rivers werechallenging, and it was real
wilderness, you know, comparedto the Queco Superior, which is
wilderness, but boy, you know,the the far north is something
else.
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
Next level.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Yeah, our our route in was was was different, but
the one similarity is Jim and Iboth ended up in the Arctic
indep you know independently,but also what we would consider
kind of late in life, like wemissed a whole bunch of years of
good paddling opportunities upthere.
But I um in Manitoba I found outvery quickly that if you like
outdoorsy stuff as a I was ayoung adult that summers are hot
(04:34):
and the best place to be in hotweather is on the water.
So I kind of migrated a littlebit through Boy Scouts, but to
do canoe trips instead of saylike hiking.
I was I was a bit of along-distance cycler, but again,
being on the water was just avery comfortable place to be in
the summer.
And then, like Jim, I I Imigrated, I followed other
(04:56):
people through the local canoeclub that were going farther
north, chasing all the rivers upthe east side of Lake Winnipeg,
and then eventually into theBarrel Lands.
And once you get up there, forsome people, like Jim and I,
there's there's no going back.
The the north north just opensup such a vast uh opportunity,
and it's so good for paddling.
(05:16):
We're uh we're never gonnaachieve what we what we'd like
to achieve up there.
SPEAKER_02 (05:21):
Well, that's that's great.
I mean, uh you always you'realways aiming for for more for
something else.
So that that's cool.
I I feel like if I it 20 yearsago, I might have been able to
to take a shot at that, but Iwasn't as busy doing my other
things now, not a chance.
I'm also way too broken to eventhink about it.
(05:43):
We've done I literally last yearit was, or sorry, this year, the
beginning of this year is thefirst time we my eldest, our
eldest uh and I had didWhitewater.
We've never never done itbefore.
We've been we're lake paddlerslike flatwater, um, you know, a
gonk with Clarney, but that sortof deal.
Uh we just got into toWhitewater and what it what an
(06:07):
amazing experience.
Like it's a totally differentanimal.
It's very different.
It is.
SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Yeah.
You realize how little you knowabout whitewater after doing all
of that flatwater paddling thatI did.
And um, you know, when you go,you know, wind up on a river
like the Thelon, my first trip,it's like you you didn't never
knew how much you didn't know.
You know, there's this you knowcognitive bias of just not
(06:32):
knowing how ignorant you are,and uh and you know, the a big
river like the Thelon willhumble you very quickly.
And it did for me.
And you know, and I've beentrying to learn ever since, you
know, how to be you know acompetent river paddler.
SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
And uh, you know, and yeah, I think the whitewater
aspect of it was it just openedup more river opportunities in
the north if you're willing tolearn and deal with whitewater,
whether that be from a liningperspective or a portaging
perspective or a or a runningwhitewater perspective.
But the north is so big and sogreat, you can find flatwater
(07:10):
chips with no whitewater ifyou're willing to look outside
of the classic you know, riverchips that people do.
There are certainlynon-whitewater chips that are
available.
SPEAKER_02 (07:20):
We have done, well, certainly, again, very limited
experience with it, but butportions of the tripping we did
this past summer and and intothe fall, there there was plenty
of just regular river, like notwhitewaters, just just paddling,
you know, not un not unlike myflatwater experience.
(07:41):
But then we got into you knowsome rocks and stuff like that,
and some small falls andwhatnot, and and ignorant is a
perfect word because it waslike, you know, I took I took a
couple, we spent a couple ofweekends taking, you know,
lessons, and and you you whenyou get into it, you if you I
don't have that muscle memory,so it became quite I I I had to
(08:07):
just sort of react to things,and thankfully everything worked
out fine.
We never we neverunintentionally had water in the
boat.
So that was that was a goodthing.
But yeah, it's uh I can't evenimagine the like that I I want
to think we were pretty prettylow level sort of stuff.
Um and water levels were fairlylow, so thankfully it was a
(08:29):
rental boat because banging offof rocks is not not would not
make me happy with my own boat.
I wish I I wish I knew moreabout the northern rivers.
Like what do you how do you howdo how do you put a trip like
that together?
Because I have to s assume, youknow, when we're doing it here,
we're only a couple hours awayfrom civilization.
(08:50):
Whereas up in you know, uh inthe true north, you're you're
days away.
How do you how does that allplay out?
Like I so I assume you uh youguys fly in or f and or fly out,
and then that's a lot of stuffyou gotta lug if you're going
for any length of time.
Like you're you one of yourtrips was it was like a thousand
(09:13):
a thousand?
No.
SPEAKER_03 (09:21):
Yeah, that that one was a complex one.
We had a resupply, we had acruise switch, um, you know,
it's it was a long trip, sixweeks, over 40 days.
Um and um, you know, I and Ithink that was a turning point
for Brian and I uh um looking tohave uh less complexity in that
(09:45):
regard of you know crew changeand and resupply.
So all of our trips since thenhave been really just just the
two of us.
You know, we've had a coupleother people on other trips uh
or two years ago, uh anothercouple joined us, but they were
self-sufficient, you know, theyplanned their own, you know,
(10:07):
food and and uh and we you knowgot together with uh you know
for flights in and some of thelogistics, but you know, really
since 20 uh 13, we've you knowit's just been Brian and I,
we've been self-contained, youknow, self-outfited, um, and uh
and it's complex.
(10:28):
Some of the logistics arecomplex.
You know, this last trip wasfour flights just to get on the
water, and uh, you know, anovernight in Edmonton and uh
overnights in Norman Wells.
Um you know, so it it it getscomplex.
Yeah.
That's one of the biggestchallenges.
Go ahead, Brian.
SPEAKER_01 (10:48):
Yeah, so Steve was um it was just unbelievable that
Steve and I had the same ideafor the same trip, and we were
both looking to reduce the costand share a plane.
But it's it it is complicatedand complex, but you can do
easier trips logistically.
Um but it's just like just likepiling down south.
(11:09):
I'm sure you've done trips whereyou have to organize you know
car shuttles and all this kindof stuff, and how you're gonna
get in and how you're gonna getout.
And you know, pilot's often likethose circle routes or routes
where you can come back to youryour vehicle because it just
makes things logisticallysimpler.
But the going north, um, it'sit's it's very similar to you
(11:32):
know going north of you know thebig cities in Ontario or or
Minnesota into the you know thepaddling area.
You have to worry aboutlogistics and figure all that
stuff.
And we've been doing it longenough that it doesn't always
seem that much more complicated.
You know, for us, you phone anairline and you get a plane
ticket while you book onlinenow, but that's that can be no
(11:53):
harder than finding somebody toshuttle your vehicle if you're
in Ontario for a paddling trip.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Yeah, it must have been difficult the first few
times just in a because becauseit's not something you normally
deal with.
SPEAKER_01 (12:08):
Yeah, and I I'm much better personally at planning
trips in the Arctic than I amplanning like trips anywhere
else in the world, just becauseyou get to know there's a
there's a limited number ofoutfitters and uh air charter
companies and all that kind ofstuff.
And and people oftenhistorically and still drive to
Yellowknife every year, and someof them would just put in right
(12:29):
on Great Slave Lake and paddlefrom there if you know if you
want to save the cost of doingan air charter, and they'll
they'll paddle from Great SlaveLake if you have time.
They'll they'll go on a bigmonth-long or two-month trip and
and might even do a circle routeand and get back to their car.
SPEAKER_03 (12:47):
Yeah, cool.
One thing both Brian and I havedone is travel with other people
that did a lot of a lot of thelogistic planning uh for the
trip.
So we got to see how it was donewithout having to be saddled
with the you know it completely.
So at least my first few trips,people were you know doing that
(13:08):
thinking, you know, for me.
And I got to see how it was doneand begin to put the pieces
together, you know, after a fewtrips.
Of, you know, like Brian said,there's a limited number of air
charter companies that you canwork with.
So, you know, there's one or twoin Yellowknife, there's one in
Norman Wells, you know, there'sone in Cambridge Bay, you know,
(13:28):
there's just not a lot ofchoices in places.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
Yeah, and I guess the other thing we do too for
some places, we've done uh quitea few trips out of Baker Lake,
and we would always have abackup plan when you land there
because if if the only plane intown isn't flying for whatever
reason, you you need a backupplan.
So we'd we would always bringmaps and figure out where could
we do a trip out of Baker Lakewhere we end up back in Baker
(13:53):
Lake without relying on a on anair charter, and that might
involve you know a boat shuttleor or uh or even an overland
drop-off somewhere, or it mightjust involve us portaging or
paddling right from thecommunity.
I think we have this whole Ithink we have this this concept
of extending our our our life inthe north by eventually um
(14:17):
shying away from maybe riversand just you know fly into a
place and just like Baker Lakeor Yellowknife and just paddle
on the big lake and take sometime and just end up right back
where you started andlogistically very, very simple.
SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
Yeah, so I when you say Arctic, I I keep thinking
cold.
So I how how do you how do younavigate that?
Like you don't want to be haveto be lugging tons and tons of
clothing and gear and stuff withyou.
SPEAKER_01 (14:41):
Yeah, it's it's cold is a is um cold is not the
issue.
The issue is three seasons orfour seasons during your limited
time there in the summer.
SPEAKER_02 (14:52):
Yeah, how quickly it changes.
And and I know that uh whenSteve when Steve and Evan got
back, Steve posted a very shortvideo, and it was just like the
the amount of bugs, like, how doyou even breathe, man?
Like there's just so many bugs.
That's it, that's insane.
SPEAKER_03 (15:08):
I I didn't think the bugs were bad on on the trip
this summer, you know, on theBrock and and Roscoe Rivers.
I you know, I think I maybe usedmy head net once, maybe, and I
and I it was awfully well, wewere very close to the Arctic
Ocean there.
So it was it was cool, it wascold at times.
It was really cold at times too.
(15:30):
Uh July 12th, we had snow andice, you know, it was uh you
know, bad conditions.
You don't have to worry aboutthe bugs in that condition, you
know, you worry about stayingwarm, and uh and which we did.
Yeah, but yeah, the bugs to me,uh the past number of trips, uh
Brian hasn't ever packed uh bugdope uh since I've known him.
(15:53):
And I've scaled back my bugprotection.
I think we're just getting moreuh tolerant.
You know, that's you just acceptthat's part of the Arctic, and
you're gonna be uncomfortable insome way.
And it might be bugs, it mightbe cold, it might be the wind,
but you we've learned totolerate it.
SPEAKER_01 (16:12):
It it might be the heat.
SPEAKER_03 (16:14):
Might be the heat, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
I think it's the last few years we've had very
hot weather.
Um uncomfortably hot where youdon't want to be in the tent
until 11 o'clock at night wherethe sun is low enough that it
starts losing its intensity.
And and and the tents of saunaby seven o'clock in the morning
when the sun's back on it.
But on the flip side, yeah, itit it you know, we had frozen
(16:39):
water bottles uh two days later.
So you can you can thetemperature can range 20 degrees
in a day.
SPEAKER_03 (16:46):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:48):
So you just that would be a lot of clothing and
and and gear that because yougot a butt cover, you gotta you
you don't know how it's gonnaplay out.
SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
Yeah, and technology's improved that it's
easier to have good clothing forcold weather and light weather
than maybe you know it used tobe, right?
SPEAKER_03 (17:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Rain gear can is quite a bitlighter now than it used to be.
And uh, you know, overall we'vewe've scaled back on the weight
of gear, I would say.
Brian's really taken the lead onthat, but uh, you know, we both
really cut back on the amount ofstuff we bring with us.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
Yeah, it's partly an age thing.
You get older and you don't wantto carry it all and look after
it all and pack it all.
The the other big technologything that's helped us in the in
the north is we've been prettyearly adopters of using pack
boats.
So, you know, we have a 17-footcanoe that folds up.
Um, it's a stick frame and a anda you know, a cover, and it
(17:48):
basically fits in a hockey bag,and that makes it logistically
easier to fly commercial to thenorth, and also fly in float
planes or um uh you know aircharged that you don't have to
take an external load like acanoe on a on the on the floats,
or you can take a smaller planebecause you don't have to put a
canoe inside the airplane.
(18:08):
So that's that's helped Jim andI as a two-person team.
Um well we've also used them asyou know a six-person team, but
it just opens up more airplaneopportunities because it's
easier now to land on on wheelsoff strip on a on an Esker or a
beach than it is um with a hardshell canoe, which is just a
(18:30):
little more a little morerestrictive, a little more maybe
costly to ship around.
Interesting idea.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
I have heard of oh, who did we talk to?
We talked to somebody, uhDarren, I think, um, who they
actually took like uh thwartsand and whatnot apart so they
could fit one canoe into anothercanoe.
Uh I thought that was aninteresting way to go about
doing it because they otherwisethey weren't gonna be able to
get enough canoes where theywere going to in order to get it
(19:00):
on the floats.
So that's that's cool.
SPEAKER_03 (19:02):
I think yeah.
Yeah, a twin otter, you can fitthree three canoes stacked on
top of one another in a twin.
And we've traveled like that anumber of times, and we've had
you know canoes strapped onfloats on other trips, but you
know, I think by far we preferthe packed canoe, you know, for
(19:24):
a lot of reasons.
One, it's fairly lightweightwhen you're having if you're
having to carry it, it's oftenthe lightest piece of equipment
that we have.
And and you know, the logisticsfor getting it to and from the
river is much easier than a hardshell.
SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
But we've also, as you said, Tim, we've we've
nested the canoes, taken theseats and the gallows off and
stacked them either in inside oror or stacked outside on a on a
pontoon float.
Because it makes it easier toget more boats into the into or
onto the plane.
SPEAKER_02 (19:55):
And it would I would think it gives you more
flexibility logistically towhere you start and stop your
trip.
It doesn't have to be on a alarger body of of water that
they have to, you know, they canput put down with the pontoons.
Yes.
Like you said, if it if there'sa beach or something like that,
they could do that.
Cool.
See all these things.
SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
Small things though.
It's it's it's hard to land on afloat plane with a packed canoe
and and and and not start onshore.
You know, with a hard shellcanoe, they can just drop the
boat in the water and throw yourstuff at it and push you off and
say see you later.
So and away you go.
Yeah.
There are the there are thosesmall details you need to be
aware of sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (20:37):
How long does it take you to reassemble it?
SPEAKER_03 (20:40):
45 minutes, maybe an hour, you know, maybe an hour
fifteen, just depending.
And you know, I don't knowwhat's your take, Brian.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm thinking we're always done
within an hour.
Yeah, from start to finish.
Sometimes we're a little more umI don't know, particular fussy
or the conditions are in aswell, right?
You know, if it's really windyor really buggy, or or uh the
site's not as comfortable, likeuh just um you know, if the
(21:11):
ground is not as good for justmoving around, because you have
to go from one side to the otherside, and you know.
But yeah, we've we've done itenough.
Um it's always a little bit, oh,we haven't done this in a year,
what do we have to do?
But it it it goes pretty easy.
And it's certainly easier withtwo people.
And and I'm sure we can take itapart in half that time and roll
it all up and have it packedaway pretty quick.
SPEAKER_00 (21:33):
So obviously, with a trip like this, you guys are
well prepared for like what ifthere's an emergency, what if
you somebody breaks an ankle?
What if somebody or yeah, haveyou done?
I'm assuming with the ForestService you may have done
wilderness first aid training.
SPEAKER_03 (21:46):
Yeah, it's been a while for me.
Uh, but yeah, you know, we'redifferent first aid training.
Um we try to bring a fairlycomprehensive first aid kit um
that we've never actuallyneeded, uh which is a good
thing.
Um and um you know, and and ofcourse we have communication now
(22:08):
more than we ever used to.
You know, back in the day it wasyou had nothing, you know, paper
maps uh I'll pick you up at thisspot in three weeks and hope
you're gonna get there.
And now it's like, well, wecould have real, almost
real-time communication with youknow a clinic or a doctor or
something if we got into a anissue.
(22:28):
Um so there's that, and thathelps.
Um, but there's a certain amountof personal care, self-care that
I think each of us carries ontothe trail.
You know, we're very carefulabout what we're doing, you
know, so it's preventative.
Um, you know, we don't let stuffhappen to us and and you know,
(22:51):
break a bone or hurt ourselves.
Uh, you know, so there was anelement of caution that goes in
with our planning.
SPEAKER_01 (22:59):
Yeah, we I think we brag that our troops are very
unadventful and and there's notnecessarily great stories to
tell because we try to live ourlife simple when we're up there
and be successful and we want tobe in nature on on the land,
seeing the wildlife, and we'drather not deal with other
issues that complicate things.
(23:21):
Trauma.
Trauma, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (23:23):
Trauma.
Yeah, we don't want our tent toblow down and have that be an
issue, or our canoe blow awayand have that be an issue, or
run out of food, or you know,any of the other number things
that could happen, you know.
So it's it's like we're fairlytight on on routines and safety
and the things we look out forum to avoid avoid those issues,
(23:48):
trauma.
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
Somewhat off top of it, but you're talking about the
wind.
What's the landscape like in thein the areas that you tend to to
go to?
Like is it are we are we talkinglike shrubs and like beyond the
trees kind of a thing?
SPEAKER_03 (24:04):
It's uh it's barren lands by and large.
I mean, there's a few riverswhere the trees follow the river
for quite a way.
You know, the Horton River isone, the copper mine is one
where there's you know quite afew trees on the river, but uh
for much of our trips, many ofour trips, most of our trips, uh
it's just barren land.
Uh it's tundra.
(24:25):
And uh so the wind rules.
Um, there's nothing to slow thewind down.
And you know, and it can changewithin the day, you know, from
being wind bound with the windfrom one direction to being
windbound with the wind fromanother direction, and all in
the in the same day.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
And that is really good being barren lands because
it opens up uh your visibility.
You get out of the tent in themorning if there's a wolf on a
ridge, you're gonna see it ifit's you know a few a few meters
away or or even a kilometer ortwo away, because your
visibility is great.
So you you don't miss as muchwildlife opportunity.
There's no forest or trees inthe way.
(25:05):
It uh it makes portaging supereasy from a you know, you don't
need a portage trail, right?
You you can get to a high point,literally stand on a rock, and
see where the next lake is andgo, well, we know where our
target is, and then you justlook for the the easiest,
driest, best footing, which issuper good.
And it's if you like to walk orhike every night on the land,
(25:27):
it's just out the tent door orthe kitchen shelter, and just
let's go to that rise and get tothat rise, and where do you want
to go next?
And it's uh such a welcomingarea of of land to go on,
provided that the you'reprepared for it and the
conditions are good and you'reokay being comfortable when
you're uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Well, and that what do you use for fuel then?
So it's just scrub that you'reable to gather, or how do you
get campfire fuel?
SPEAKER_03 (25:55):
We we pretty much use white gas, you know, camp
fuel.
And you know, there are otherways to do it for sure, but you
know, that's just what we'velocked into.
And uh and so one of thoselogistical questions that you
have to deal with is well, howcan you get white gas where
you're going?
You know, we we know we can getit at you know, one of the
(26:17):
co-ops in in Baker Lake, and oneco-op charges twice as much as
the other, so you know, we weknow where to go.
And you know, Norman Wells, youknow, we picked it up at uh I
forget what's it, Northern Storeor something.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
Yeah, I think both stores had it.
We've never really had much of aproblem getting fuel.
And Jim and I have just migratedto that.
It's simple, it's fast, it'sconvenient, it's clean.
But lots of people would usestick stoves now and and you
know, use little branches offthe land.
Typically where we are, there'sthere's limited firewood from a
(26:57):
a size perspective.
You know, you're not gonna getmuch um wood that's much bigger
than like kidding kind of stuff,but with a stick stove you can
you can cook fine, you know,with stuff the size of your
fingers or thumbs.
And yeah, it's it's not thatmuch different than canoe
tripping down south in thatperspective.
We bring basically the same uhthe same stuff.
(27:20):
We we just bring a little morewarm clothing, and uh and our
trips are typically three weekslong-ish.
So, you know, we're packing morefood, but um, and the other
thing is because there's notrees, you know, you're on the
bare lands, and and the the windcan be an issue, but so can the
heat and so can the bugs, butthen you need some sort of you
(27:40):
know, tenting and maybe youknow, shelter, like a tarp, um
kitchen protection, etc., thatdoesn't rely on trees, so
something that's freestanding,or you can use your poles or
your paddles for last year.
We spent a lot of time with thecanoe on edge because it was uh
it just worked very well for usto give us some shelter when we
(28:03):
we wanted to get out of the windand that.
And but yeah, no no trees is uhan issue if you want to do a
hammock or if you want to use atraditional tarp and and do a
ridgeline or something, youknow.
We're always staking our tarpdown and using paddles as poles
to give it structure and that.
SPEAKER_03 (28:22):
Yeah.
And if you are looking for orhoping for an evening campfire,
well, no deal.
No deal.
With the a few exceptions, youknow, if you're along the coast,
there's often more wood alongthe coast.
SPEAKER_02 (28:36):
No like driftwood or something like that.
SPEAKER_03 (28:38):
Yeah, yeah.
But also in the national parkthat we were in, uh there was no
open fires allowed.
So, you know, that's anotheranother aspect to be aware of,
and you know, that you don'thave to deal with back in the
tree line and uh generally.
SPEAKER_02 (28:54):
Well, yeah, and and you mentioned earlier, or sorry,
alluded to the warmer, the lastfew years have been warmer.
We're experiencing that here.
We're in fire band season likeall the time now.
So I actually have a flickeringlight so that I can pluck it in
the campfire so that at leastyou get that that feel, right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:14):
Of course, the other thing in the Arctic is we
typically have 24 hours of s ofdaylight.
If we don't have 20 hours ofdaylight, we certainly have 24
hours of what we would considerdaylight given the the twilight.
Um, so you don't need a campfirefor that aspect to you know give
the ambience and have a nice youknow evening around.
SPEAKER_03 (29:37):
And and you don't need a headlamp either.
Yeah, you don't take a headless.
Yeah, we just something we'venever never brought with us.
And uh another common questionwe get is well, gosh, that
you're going pretty far north.
You know, aren't you gonna seenorthern lights?
Well, no, it's it's uh light 24hours, you know.
(29:58):
There's you can't see anything.
Anything.
You can't see the northernlights.
SPEAKER_00 (30:02):
It's not dark enough to see the northern lights.
SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
Yeah, and that and that that also means you can get
up whenever you want and paddle.
Like you can beat the wind everymorning if you want to get up at
two o'clock or three o'clock inthe morning and start piling.
And if you get up to go to thebathroom during the night, you
don't need a flashlight or aheadlamp.
You just walk out the tent doorand it's it's bright enough,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
Does it affect your ability to sleep at night when
it's not getting dark?
SPEAKER_01 (30:29):
It doesn't affect Jim's and I ability to have a
nap at 10 o'clock in the morningif we're windbound and another
nap at 2 o'clock in theafternoon if we're still
windbound.
SPEAKER_03 (30:46):
Either side of 50 degrees Fahrenheit, and uh, you
know, that the sun is is warm,but not you know, often not too
warm.
Uh you know, there's gooddaylight, you know, uh it's just
my favorite environment.
SPEAKER_02 (31:05):
With all that light, I would assume you guys are
dragging, not dragging, takingalong some like a solar panel,
and you just recharge all yourelectronics that way.
SPEAKER_01 (31:14):
Yeah, we bring one solar panel and um and a and a
battery bank.
And we've had great successgoing back to uh so I at since
Jim and I started pilingtogether.
SPEAKER_03 (31:30):
I think so.
SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
I I I don't Yeah, I certainly remember we had it.
Yeah, I I I've been a prettyearly adopter.
I had I was doing my journal,I'm sure, in 2012 on an
electronic device with a solaryeah.
I certainly remember the Kujuwauh and the the was the other
river we did on north of theKujua, northeast of the Kujuwa.
SPEAKER_03 (31:53):
Nanook.
Nanook, yeah.
We certainly remember charging,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
And and the and the trick now is we bring us well,
I'd say a slightly bigger solarpanel than we need.
It's not big, it's like the28-watt solar panel, 30 watt
solar panel, just because we cancharge on overcast conditions in
the Arctic without an issue tocharge you know an iPhone.
Yeah, it's same here.
SPEAKER_02 (32:15):
I think ours is 26 watts for what I drive around.
Yeah, and a and a you know,whatever, 50,000 milliwatt or
milliamp hour power bank orwhatever, and that's it's enough
to run all of it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Yeah, and I think we could go with certainly less,
like half that solar panel if itwas always sunny.
But in the Arctic, you caneasily get, you know, you can
get some, as as we had lastyear, you can get some cold,
windy, snowy days where uh Jimand I were basically doing half
days portaging because we wereon a just uh uh connecting the
(32:50):
two rivers, which was about a 10kilometer portage.
So we were walking about a fewhours every day and spending the
rest of the day in the tentstaying warm, which means we're
reading books on our on our onour iPhones, and it's cold, so
your battery life isn't as long,and you're using your phone more
for being in the tent forjournaling and doing books and
(33:11):
stuff, so then you're you youneed to charge more, and of
course, you're in this badcharging weather.
For us, it was slightly belowzero and cloudy and snowy, and
there was we had ocean fog everymorning because we I think we
were within certainly 80kilometers of the coast, so the
fog would roll in.
We had to wait for the fog toroll out before we really were
(33:32):
keen to go out and do ourportage.
So a little bit bigger solarpanel, and we could charge
during less than you know, idealsolar solar panel charging
conditions.
SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
So you mentioned wildlife, Brian, uh and look
wolves, other examples ofwildlife that you guys have
encountered?
SPEAKER_03 (33:51):
Well, we saw we saw a grizzly bear at about a
quarter mile last summer, andyou know, we you know, because
it's the barren lands, you know,and um there was some terrain as
well.
So you you had you know, we weresort of in this bowl of a river
valley, and up on the hillsidewe could see a brown shape, and
(34:11):
you know, we got just a littlebit closer and could see that it
was a grizzly bear, and I thinkit knew we were there, and but
it just kept doing what it wasdoing, and you know, foraging on
the hillside and left us alone,and we left it alone, and you
know, sort of went our separateways.
But there were many, manycaribou.
(34:33):
This particular uh area, uh thisnational park is is home to the
breeding uh breeding area or thecalving area of the blue-nosed
caribou herd.
And so we were seeing herds andherds of you know of caribou,
mainly cows with calves, youknow, some bulls.
(34:54):
But you know, at one point I wasoutside, had the wind in my
ears, I couldn't really hear.
Brian's in the tent, he'sreading, and he said, What's
that noise?
I said, Well, what noise?
I can't, I'm not hearinganything.
There's something across theriver.
So I went and looked, and therewas, I don't know, a couple
hundred caribou, you know, thatwere working their way along the
(35:16):
shore of the river, and youknow, they grunt and they their
the their heels or their legsmake a clicking noise, and so
there was all that kind of kindof noise, you know, associated
with the caribou.
And and I I wasn't hearing it atall, but Brian, you know, could
hear it in the tent.
But yeah, got some nice video ofthat uh that particular herd.
SPEAKER_01 (35:41):
Yeah, we've over the years we've seen, you know, I
think you could almost say, youknow, we've seen it all.
But last summer we didn't wedidn't see any sandhill cranes,
which is really unusual.
But we always see swans, wealways see pharmigan.
Uh we often see caribou andbear, whether that be grizzly or
polar bear.
(36:01):
We often see um fox, hare,muskox.
Um last year wasn't a good yearfor wolves, but wolves are
pretty common.
Yeah, and and vary in terms ofyou know whether we're seeing
them like we've had grizzlybears just down at the water and
we're just floating down theriver, and we can float right by
(36:21):
them.
Go float right by them, theydon't even notice us.
But and other times you're uhyou're backpiling on the river
because there are so manycaribou swimming in the river,
or or you it's hard to get waterbecause there's so much caribou
hair in the river.
Yeah, you just you never know.
SPEAKER_03 (36:34):
Yeah, on the copper mine, we we saw a number of
moose, which that's pretty farnorth, you know, and they but
they were you know followed theyou know the the river, the
copper mine river, uh almost tothe ocean.
And at one point there was acalf that would began swimming
the the river, and we werefloating down to it, you know,
sort of inadvertently gettingbetween you know the calf and
(36:57):
its mom, which was on the othershore.
And mom came in the water andshe was coming for us.
And we we had to do some sort ofquick paddles to sort of get
more space between us and thecalf.
And and you know, she camearound and you know, sort of
herded her calf towards theshore at that point, and you
(37:19):
know, so it was a minor bit ofexcitement, but interesting
interaction, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (37:25):
Always exciting when we see a wolverine, too, because
they're pretty elusive for forsites.
And the other thing that thatI'm always taking by surprise, I
think Jim a little less becauseof his you know professional
background as a as a biologist,but when we're getting close to
the ocean stuff, we start seeingsigns of of ocean wildlife.
(37:46):
So we'll find a a skull alongthe river and it's it's from a
seal.
And I'm not I'm not instantlythinking seal, but Jim being a
wildlife biologist is a littlemore adapt sometimes to the to
the where we are in terms of youknow the the habitat.
And uh so it's always fun to seeyou know seals' heads poking out
(38:07):
of the water and and that kindof stuff on on trips.
And fish species change too whenyou get you know farther north
and and and um closer to the uhto the ocean stuff as well.
SPEAKER_00 (38:19):
And so it's and do you fish on your trips?
SPEAKER_03 (38:24):
I I I like to fish.
Um I this particular summer umfishing wasn't great.
You know, I I caught a fewgrayling and uh you know because
of some of our our travelschedule, I didn't fish the
couple of lakes that we were on.
It just wasn't working out foryou know how how the day each
(38:45):
day was unfolding, but there'sprobably lake trout.
Um but on other rivers, we'veyou know, the in other, you
know, where there's been somelakes and and better rapids,
I've you know, the the fishingcan be unbelievable.
I mean you're catching some justamazingly, you know, large lake
trout.
And uh the fishing is very fastas well.
(39:06):
And um, but you know, I I lovefishing.
If I catch nothing, I'm okaywith that.
That's just you know, I'd we'dnever rely on fish because I've
been disappointed too manytimes, you know, to count on
fish.
SPEAKER_02 (39:22):
You and me both.
SPEAKER_03 (39:23):
Yeah.
You know, it's like, well, I'mgonna I'm gonna pack less food
and you know, plan on catchingfish.
Well, no, that that neverhappens.
That never happens.
SPEAKER_01 (39:31):
That's the drama that Jim and I like to avoid.
Running out of food.
SPEAKER_02 (39:36):
Right.
Yeah.
I'm starving, do a better job atfishing.
SPEAKER_00 (39:40):
Yeah, right.
So what's coming up this yearfor you guys?
Or in 2026, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
We are always thinking of something, and we're
not always fast to make adecision, but we we we have our
eye on on a on a on our on afairly straightforward, easy
river trip in in the centralbarrens.
We we kind of like the morecentral barrens more so than the
than the mountainous stuff.
Um in the last few years we'vebeen pretty far north.
(40:08):
We've had great success with uhbeing right along the basically
the northwest passage for thelast three or four years.
And um, it's just time to maybedo go somewhere else.
SPEAKER_03 (40:19):
And yeah, I think we're we're trying to avoid the
10 kilometer portage again.
Uh that was you know mythinking.
It's like, well, maybe we canfind somewhere that's just a
little bit easier than what wedid last summer.
Um, you know, I'm okay withthat.
SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
Um the river over the years we haven't been sh um
hesitant to try to do somethinga little unique and not we've
done a lot of very classic rivertrips, you know, paddled the
thelon or the Kazan or whatever,but the copper mine, but we also
tried to do some you know alittle more unique stuff.
And last summer was a goodexample.
We connected two rivers that toour knowledge, you know, people
(41:00):
have never connected, and thenwe paddled more of the rivers
too all the way out to theocean, and we paddled the ocean
to get to the nearest community.
Um, so we we liked we like doingsomething a little unique and
adding to that, you know, theknowledge that's out there for
for future paddlers.
And and the north is sointerconnected, I always try not
(41:20):
to lose sleep over thingsbecause when you get there, it's
always pretty obvious that youcan just get from one body of
water to the next body of waterif you're willing to do a bit of
work.
And last summer we did a we dida bit of work on a couple
occasions.
SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
Well, yeah, I looked at the uh your map on your
website and and just went, wow.
That's that's wicked.
That's amazing.
All the places you guys havebeen.
It just like I'm not of the 10kilometer portage that I can do
(41:52):
without that, but I'm jealous ofthe uh just the amount of of
wild nature.
Like, do you run into so if fineif you're booking, if you're
trying to save some money on aflight or whatever, so you you
know, we book with other peopleoutside of that.
Do you run into other people onyour trips?
SPEAKER_03 (42:12):
Yeah, we we have, yeah.
Uh um there are some of therivers like the copper mine that
get paddled by many other groupsevery year.
And we ran into, you know, onthe copper mine, two groups from
Minnesota, uh, from uh a YMCAcamp and uh outside of Ely.
And uh, you know, so that that'sfairly common.
(42:35):
I've run into groups from thesame camp on, I don't know,
probably three or four othertrips.
And you know, and we we've runinto uh uh certainly Inuit
people out on the land, youknow, that are they're you know,
boating out and camping, um, youknow, hunting and fishing.
And uh, you know, that's alwaysfun.
(42:56):
Uh fun to talk with them.
Um and uh trying to think whoelse.
SPEAKER_01 (43:01):
We've run into, I guess over the years, a few, you
know, European trials that wouldseek the Northern Canadian and
and and other Canadian, youknow, paddlers as well, or
American paddlers.
Some years we know we havefriends just ahead of us or just
behind us, or on the next riverover or something.
(43:23):
Sometimes when you fly in, youcan ask the the air charter
company or the pilots, like,hey, you know, are we are we the
first group this year?
Is anybody ahead of us or behindus?
But some places we go, we knowwe're the only padders that
year, or for the next you know,couple years, just or the last
you know, few years, there justhasn't been people piling in
(43:46):
that area.
SPEAKER_03 (43:47):
Yeah, some some of our routes of are pretty
obscure.
You know, they're they're notnot well known by people looking
to do a river like the Kazan orThilon.
You know, those are fairlystraightforward, well-known
rivers, but you know, like ourtrip from Parker Lake to Rankin
(44:07):
Inlet was I I don't know.
I imagine people have done thattrip.
Uh Brian might know them, Idon't, but uh there was nobody
else on the river, on thoserivers that summer in that area.
SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
And uh so yeah, and and some trips are certainly
have outfitters, like you know,we were on the Horton, and the
Horton's a pretty popular riverfor you can sign up with a canoe
outfit company and they'll takeyou down the river.
SPEAKER_00 (44:34):
And so do you document your travels just for
yourselves, or is there a bookin the works, or is there a
documentary coming?
SPEAKER_03 (44:42):
Um, well, you know, both Brian and I journal.
Uh we keep journals, so there'smaterial, you know, written in
the written word.
Um, you know, I do some writing.
Um, I done some radio work forour local community radio
station and uh have interviewedpeople like Brian and other
(45:04):
friends.
Um you know, uh there was aperiod where I was, you know,
producing something once a monthor so.
And uh so some of that mymaterial would make it into the
those radio bits.
And uh, but Brian and I havebeen doing uh presentations at
like the Far North Symposium anduh the Wilderness Canoe
(45:25):
Symposium.
Um, you know, Brian will bepresenting there this coming
year, and uh we'll be presentingit in Minneapolis as well uh in
the coming year.
So that material makes it intothose places as well, those
outlets.
We'll have to make a trip to thesymposium for that.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (45:45):
I could probably get talked into.
SPEAKER_01 (45:49):
I I I think the only other thing we could just
briefly touch on is the factthat if you want to expand, you
know, beyond your local paddlingarea or or even just go on
bigger trips, even if you'restaying in in Ontario.
And there's nothing you knowwrong with that, right?
There's just there's lots ofresources out there in terms of
you know joining a paddlingorganization, taking a course,
(46:10):
um, using social media or or youknow, old school networks to
expand your the people you'repaddling with in terms of skills
and experience and diversities,and you know, that kind of Jim
and I have spent a long timegetting to where we are, but you
know, there are means toaccelerate that gaining
experience, right?
(46:31):
And paddling within your limits,you know, judgment goes a long
way, sometimes more so thanskill can go, but skill can also
help out.
SPEAKER_03 (46:39):
Yeah, don't don't be afraid to learn from others and
you know to realize that youmight not know it all.
You know, I think that's a uhthat's a very um real trap to
fall into.
It's like, well, I've paddled inthe boundary waters for many
years, I know it all.
And and you wind up on a on abig Arctic river, and you you
(47:03):
can be humbled very quickly.
And uh so you know, go into itwith your eyes open and your
ears open, especially to learnfrom others.
SPEAKER_02 (47:13):
Well, absolutely.
I mean, I I would echo that in aI I have logged, you know, a
boatload of boatload of ofpaddling time.
I thought I was a pretty goodpaddler, and then I tried
Whitewater with I know nothing.
SPEAKER_01 (47:26):
Yeah, it's it's a big, vast world, right?
There's a lot of diversity to itin terms of even paddle craft,
right?
Um, but you know, be adaptable,be flexible.
One of the things I love aboutpaddling is that there's many
different ways of doing things,and and they're not necessarily
right or wrong, they're justdifferent.
So, like we mentioned that Jimand I travel and we use a stove,
(47:46):
but you could easily travel anduse a stick stove and and not a
you know a fuel-based stove.
And there's many ways of doingthings, which is which is really
good.
I've I've certainly learned lotsof things over the years, and
I'm still learning things, andsometimes it's kind of like you
know, wow, like I never thoughtof that, but you know, it works.
(48:07):
Maybe it's not the way I want todo things, but it certainly
works.
SPEAKER_00 (48:10):
Well, that's where something somebody we talked to
recently was saying that uhbecause you said about the
discomfort and just that you canlive with discomfort, it's not
you're not gonna dieuncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01 (48:20):
So yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
But if you're talking about situations, you
learn what you can what you canyou know build your resilience
and you learn what you can whatyou can deal with.
SPEAKER_02 (48:29):
Yeah, and and it gets you out of like you know,
we all think in a certain way,and but different from each
other.
So watching somebody else dosomething or just listening to
somebody else talk about howthey do something, it's like,
oh, that could be, yeah, maybeI'll try that just just because
just push yourself out of yourcomfort zone.
SPEAKER_01 (48:50):
Being uncomfortable can also save your life.
So I'm a I'm a big fan of I'mcomfortable being chilled for a
long time because I don't wantto get sweaty and moisture
because the sweat and themoisture will kill you faster
than being chilled will.
So it's not it's not always abad thing.
Oh no, I'm I'm all for beingcool.
(49:10):
I I sweat at the drop.
Well, you're perfect, as Jimsays.
It's it's perfect, comfortabletemperature when you're a pile
in north of 60.
SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
That's it for us for today.
Thank you so much to Jim andBrian for joining us and telling
us about their adventures in thein the tundra.
And we would love to hear fromyou if you want to talk to us
anytime.
We are at high atsupergoodcamping.com.
That's H I atSupergoodcamping.com, and you
can find us on all the socialmedia.
And we will talk to you againsoon.
unknown (49:37):
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (49:37):
Bye.
Thank you.
Uh hello and good day.
Welcome to the Super GoodCamping Podcast.
My name is Pamela.
SPEAKER_02 (00:04):
I'm Tim.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
And we are from SuperGoodcamping.com.
We're here on a mission toinspire other people to get
outside and enjoy campingadventures such as we have as a
family.
Today's guests are two gentlemenfrom the lovely province of
Manitoba and the state ofMinnesota.
We were introduced to them bySteve from Sulek46.
He got to meet them on a recenttrip in the Northwest
Territories and was blown awayby some of their epic tripping.
(00:27):
They've been canoe trippingtogether for about 16 years and
have logged 5,600 kilometerstogether.
Please welcome Jim Gallagher andBrian Johnston.
Yay, welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (00:39):
Thank you.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Thanks for coming and having you act with us
today.
SPEAKER_02 (00:43):
Yeah.
First question out of the gateis how did you two manage to
sort of get together and starttripping?
SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
Well, um, I I think Brian and I met at uh the far
north symposium in Minneapolis.
I think Brian, Brian came downfor that.
I forget if you were presentingor just coming down to see uh
see a see some presentations,and that was you know some time
ago now.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
But yeah, money been when I presented on the on the
Dog River going into LakeSuperior.
SPEAKER_03 (01:12):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Uh and there's two big symposiums.
There's the wilderness one inToronto and the one in
Minneapolis.
SPEAKER_03 (01:19):
So yeah, so we we met at the one in Minneapolis,
and I was uh I've done some uhtripping, you know, some canoe
trips with other people over theyears, and uh Lee Sessions was
uh um a uh uh a guy that uh Itripped with.
Uh you know, we planned a numberof trips with, and and we needed
(01:40):
a uh we needed uh anotherpartner on on a trip.
And we recruited Brian uh youknow for the trip on the Mara
and uh Burnside Rivers uh goingback, what was that, 2009?
2009 for that trip inparticular.
And uh and bat and Brian and Ipaddled together uh on that
(02:01):
trip, and and it was so nice topaddle with somebody who had
really exceptional whitewaterskills, and uh, you know, you
learn things from the people youtravel with.
And I, you know, on that trip, II certainly learned a lot and uh
sort of opened, you know, openedup the door to you know, to many
(02:24):
more trips after that.
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Yeah, and then from there we did some trips together
as a group, but not paddlingtogether.
I paddled one trip with uh go acouple trips with my old
traveling partner that I hadbeen traveling with, and it took
until I think 2013, so anotherfour years before Jim and I
locked into a two-person teamthat we've been since that's
easy, 12 years then.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Well, yeah, I mean, over 5,600 kilometers, that's
I've been tripping for a while.
I I have nowhere near that, likenowhere.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Um so how did you each each as individuals get
into that kind of tripping?
SPEAKER_03 (03:05):
Um, well, you know, I I started work uh in the
boundary waters canoe area, youknow, just opposite of the
Quedeco.
And uh I was a wilderness rangeruh uh in the boundary waters
with the Forest Service.
I did that for five, six years,and um, you know, I moved on to
other jobs in the ForestService, but that was sort of
(03:26):
the beginning of my interest inin canoe tripping.
And and I didn't take my firstArctic trip until 1992, and
that's where the real learningbegan, you know.
Um so you know, the first Arctictrip, you know, sort of the
scales fell away from my eyesand realized there was this
(03:48):
whole region of North Americathat you know was just wild, and
you know, the rivers werechallenging, and it was real
wilderness, you know, comparedto the Queco Superior, which is
wilderness, but boy, you know,the the far north is something
else.
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
Next level.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Yeah, our our route in was was was different, but
the one similarity is Jim and Iboth ended up in the Arctic
indep you know independently,but also what we would consider
kind of late in life, like wemissed a whole bunch of years of
good paddling opportunities upthere.
But I um in Manitoba I found outvery quickly that if you like
outdoorsy stuff as a I was ayoung adult that summers are hot
(04:34):
and the best place to be in hotweather is on the water.
So I kind of migrated a littlebit through Boy Scouts, but to
do canoe trips instead of saylike hiking.
I was I was a bit of along-distance cycler, but again,
being on the water was just avery comfortable place to be in
the summer.
And then, like Jim, I I Imigrated, I followed other
(04:56):
people through the local canoeclub that were going farther
north, chasing all the rivers upthe east side of Lake Winnipeg,
and then eventually into theBarrel Lands.
And once you get up there, forsome people, like Jim and I,
there's there's no going back.
The the north north just opensup such a vast uh opportunity,
and it's so good for paddling.
(05:16):
We're uh we're never gonnaachieve what we what we'd like
to achieve up there.
SPEAKER_02 (05:21):
Well, that's that's great.
I mean, uh you always you'realways aiming for for more for
something else.
So that that's cool.
I I feel like if I it 20 yearsago, I might have been able to
to take a shot at that, but Iwasn't as busy doing my other
things now, not a chance.
I'm also way too broken to eventhink about it.
(05:43):
We've done I literally last yearit was, or sorry, this year, the
beginning of this year is thefirst time we my eldest, our
eldest uh and I had didWhitewater.
We've never never done itbefore.
We've been we're lake paddlerslike flatwater, um, you know, a
gonk with Clarney, but that sortof deal.
Uh we just got into toWhitewater and what it what an
(06:07):
amazing experience.
Like it's a totally differentanimal.
It's very different.
It is.
SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Yeah.
You realize how little you knowabout whitewater after doing all
of that flatwater paddling thatI did.
And um, you know, when you go,you know, wind up on a river
like the Thelon, my first trip,it's like you you didn't never
knew how much you didn't know.
You know, there's this you knowcognitive bias of just not
(06:32):
knowing how ignorant you are,and uh and you know, the a big
river like the Thelon willhumble you very quickly.
And it did for me.
And you know, and I've beentrying to learn ever since, you
know, how to be you know acompetent river paddler.
SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
And uh, you know, and yeah, I think the whitewater
aspect of it was it just openedup more river opportunities in
the north if you're willing tolearn and deal with whitewater,
whether that be from a liningperspective or a portaging
perspective or a or a runningwhitewater perspective.
But the north is so big and sogreat, you can find flatwater
(07:10):
chips with no whitewater ifyou're willing to look outside
of the classic you know, riverchips that people do.
There are certainlynon-whitewater chips that are
available.
SPEAKER_02 (07:20):
We have done, well, certainly, again, very limited
experience with it, but butportions of the tripping we did
this past summer and and intothe fall, there there was plenty
of just regular river, like notwhitewaters, just just paddling,
you know, not un not unlike myflatwater experience.
(07:41):
But then we got into you knowsome rocks and stuff like that,
and some small falls andwhatnot, and and ignorant is a
perfect word because it waslike, you know, I took I took a
couple, we spent a couple ofweekends taking, you know,
lessons, and and you you whenyou get into it, you if you I
don't have that muscle memory,so it became quite I I I had to
(08:07):
just sort of react to things,and thankfully everything worked
out fine.
We never we neverunintentionally had water in the
boat.
So that was that was a goodthing.
But yeah, it's uh I can't evenimagine the like that I I want
to think we were pretty prettylow level sort of stuff.
Um and water levels were fairlylow, so thankfully it was a
(08:29):
rental boat because banging offof rocks is not not would not
make me happy with my own boat.
I wish I I wish I knew moreabout the northern rivers.
Like what do you how do you howdo how do you put a trip like
that together?
Because I have to s assume, youknow, when we're doing it here,
we're only a couple hours awayfrom civilization.
(08:50):
Whereas up in you know, uh inthe true north, you're you're
days away.
How do you how does that allplay out?
Like I so I assume you uh youguys fly in or f and or fly out,
and then that's a lot of stuffyou gotta lug if you're going
for any length of time.
Like you're you one of yourtrips was it was like a thousand
(09:13):
a thousand?
No.
SPEAKER_03 (09:21):
Yeah, that that one was a complex one.
We had a resupply, we had acruise switch, um, you know,
it's it was a long trip, sixweeks, over 40 days.
Um and um, you know, I and Ithink that was a turning point
for Brian and I uh um looking tohave uh less complexity in that
(09:45):
regard of you know crew changeand and resupply.
So all of our trips since thenhave been really just just the
two of us.
You know, we've had a coupleother people on other trips uh
or two years ago, uh anothercouple joined us, but they were
self-sufficient, you know, theyplanned their own, you know,
(10:07):
food and and uh and we you knowgot together with uh you know
for flights in and some of thelogistics, but you know, really
since 20 uh 13, we've you knowit's just been Brian and I,
we've been self-contained, youknow, self-outfited, um, and uh
and it's complex.
(10:28):
Some of the logistics arecomplex.
You know, this last trip wasfour flights just to get on the
water, and uh, you know, anovernight in Edmonton and uh
overnights in Norman Wells.
Um you know, so it it it getscomplex.
Yeah.
That's one of the biggestchallenges.
Go ahead, Brian.
SPEAKER_01 (10:48):
Yeah, so Steve was um it was just unbelievable that
Steve and I had the same ideafor the same trip, and we were
both looking to reduce the costand share a plane.
But it's it it is complicatedand complex, but you can do
easier trips logistically.
Um but it's just like just likepiling down south.
(11:09):
I'm sure you've done trips whereyou have to organize you know
car shuttles and all this kindof stuff, and how you're gonna
get in and how you're gonna getout.
And you know, pilot's often likethose circle routes or routes
where you can come back to youryour vehicle because it just
makes things logisticallysimpler.
But the going north, um, it'sit's it's very similar to you
(11:32):
know going north of you know thebig cities in Ontario or or
Minnesota into the you know thepaddling area.
You have to worry aboutlogistics and figure all that
stuff.
And we've been doing it longenough that it doesn't always
seem that much more complicated.
You know, for us, you phone anairline and you get a plane
ticket while you book onlinenow, but that's that can be no
(11:53):
harder than finding somebody toshuttle your vehicle if you're
in Ontario for a paddling trip.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Yeah, it must have been difficult the first few
times just in a because becauseit's not something you normally
deal with.
SPEAKER_01 (12:08):
Yeah, and I I'm much better personally at planning
trips in the Arctic than I amplanning like trips anywhere
else in the world, just becauseyou get to know there's a
there's a limited number ofoutfitters and uh air charter
companies and all that kind ofstuff.
And and people oftenhistorically and still drive to
Yellowknife every year, and someof them would just put in right
(12:29):
on Great Slave Lake and paddlefrom there if you know if you
want to save the cost of doingan air charter, and they'll
they'll paddle from Great SlaveLake if you have time.
They'll they'll go on a bigmonth-long or two-month trip and
and might even do a circle routeand and get back to their car.
SPEAKER_03 (12:47):
Yeah, cool.
One thing both Brian and I havedone is travel with other people
that did a lot of a lot of thelogistic planning uh for the
trip.
So we got to see how it was donewithout having to be saddled
with the you know it completely.
So at least my first few trips,people were you know doing that
(13:08):
thinking, you know, for me.
And I got to see how it was doneand begin to put the pieces
together, you know, after a fewtrips.
Of, you know, like Brian said,there's a limited number of air
charter companies that you canwork with.
So, you know, there's one or twoin Yellowknife, there's one in
Norman Wells, you know, there'sone in Cambridge Bay, you know,
(13:28):
there's just not a lot ofchoices in places.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
Yeah, and I guess the other thing we do too for
some places, we've done uh quitea few trips out of Baker Lake,
and we would always have abackup plan when you land there
because if if the only plane intown isn't flying for whatever
reason, you you need a backupplan.
So we'd we would always bringmaps and figure out where could
we do a trip out of Baker Lakewhere we end up back in Baker
(13:53):
Lake without relying on a on anair charter, and that might
involve you know a boat shuttleor or uh or even an overland
drop-off somewhere, or it mightjust involve us portaging or
paddling right from thecommunity.
I think we have this whole Ithink we have this this concept
of extending our our our life inthe north by eventually um
(14:17):
shying away from maybe riversand just you know fly into a
place and just like Baker Lakeor Yellowknife and just paddle
on the big lake and take sometime and just end up right back
where you started andlogistically very, very simple.
SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
Yeah, so I when you say Arctic, I I keep thinking
cold.
So I how how do you how do younavigate that?
Like you don't want to be haveto be lugging tons and tons of
clothing and gear and stuff withyou.
SPEAKER_01 (14:41):
Yeah, it's it's cold is a is um cold is not the
issue.
The issue is three seasons orfour seasons during your limited
time there in the summer.
SPEAKER_02 (14:52):
Yeah, how quickly it changes.
And and I know that uh whenSteve when Steve and Evan got
back, Steve posted a very shortvideo, and it was just like the
the amount of bugs, like, how doyou even breathe, man?
Like there's just so many bugs.
That's it, that's insane.
SPEAKER_03 (15:08):
I I didn't think the bugs were bad on on the trip
this summer, you know, on theBrock and and Roscoe Rivers.
I you know, I think I maybe usedmy head net once, maybe, and I
and I it was awfully well, wewere very close to the Arctic
Ocean there.
So it was it was cool, it wascold at times.
It was really cold at times too.
(15:30):
Uh July 12th, we had snow andice, you know, it was uh you
know, bad conditions.
You don't have to worry aboutthe bugs in that condition, you
know, you worry about stayingwarm, and uh and which we did.
Yeah, but yeah, the bugs to me,uh the past number of trips, uh
Brian hasn't ever packed uh bugdope uh since I've known him.
(15:53):
And I've scaled back my bugprotection.
I think we're just getting moreuh tolerant.
You know, that's you just acceptthat's part of the Arctic, and
you're gonna be uncomfortable insome way.
And it might be bugs, it mightbe cold, it might be the wind,
but you we've learned totolerate it.
SPEAKER_01 (16:12):
It it might be the heat.
SPEAKER_03 (16:14):
Might be the heat, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
I think it's the last few years we've had very
hot weather.
Um uncomfortably hot where youdon't want to be in the tent
until 11 o'clock at night wherethe sun is low enough that it
starts losing its intensity.
And and and the tents of saunaby seven o'clock in the morning
when the sun's back on it.
But on the flip side, yeah, itit it you know, we had frozen
(16:39):
water bottles uh two days later.
So you can you can thetemperature can range 20 degrees
in a day.
SPEAKER_03 (16:46):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:48):
So you just that would be a lot of clothing and
and and gear that because yougot a butt cover, you gotta you
you don't know how it's gonnaplay out.
SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
Yeah, and technology's improved that it's
easier to have good clothing forcold weather and light weather
than maybe you know it used tobe, right?
SPEAKER_03 (17:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Rain gear can is quite a bitlighter now than it used to be.
And uh, you know, overall we'vewe've scaled back on the weight
of gear, I would say.
Brian's really taken the lead onthat, but uh, you know, we both
really cut back on the amount ofstuff we bring with us.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
Yeah, it's partly an age thing.
You get older and you don't wantto carry it all and look after
it all and pack it all.
The the other big technologything that's helped us in the in
the north is we've been prettyearly adopters of using pack
boats.
So, you know, we have a 17-footcanoe that folds up.
Um, it's a stick frame and a anda you know, a cover, and it
(17:48):
basically fits in a hockey bag,and that makes it logistically
easier to fly commercial to thenorth, and also fly in float
planes or um uh you know aircharged that you don't have to
take an external load like acanoe on a on the on the floats,
or you can take a smaller planebecause you don't have to put a
canoe inside the airplane.
(18:08):
So that's that's helped Jim andI as a two-person team.
Um well we've also used them asyou know a six-person team, but
it just opens up more airplaneopportunities because it's
easier now to land on on wheelsoff strip on a on an Esker or a
beach than it is um with a hardshell canoe, which is just a
(18:30):
little more a little morerestrictive, a little more maybe
costly to ship around.
Interesting idea.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
I have heard of oh, who did we talk to?
We talked to somebody, uhDarren, I think, um, who they
actually took like uh thwartsand and whatnot apart so they
could fit one canoe into anothercanoe.
Uh I thought that was aninteresting way to go about
doing it because they otherwisethey weren't gonna be able to
get enough canoes where theywere going to in order to get it
(19:00):
on the floats.
So that's that's cool.
SPEAKER_03 (19:02):
I think yeah.
Yeah, a twin otter, you can fitthree three canoes stacked on
top of one another in a twin.
And we've traveled like that anumber of times, and we've had
you know canoes strapped onfloats on other trips, but you
know, I think by far we preferthe packed canoe, you know, for
(19:24):
a lot of reasons.
One, it's fairly lightweightwhen you're having if you're
having to carry it, it's oftenthe lightest piece of equipment
that we have.
And and you know, the logisticsfor getting it to and from the
river is much easier than a hardshell.
SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
But we've also, as you said, Tim, we've we've
nested the canoes, taken theseats and the gallows off and
stacked them either in inside oror or stacked outside on a on a
pontoon float.
Because it makes it easier toget more boats into the into or
onto the plane.
SPEAKER_02 (19:55):
And it would I would think it gives you more
flexibility logistically towhere you start and stop your
trip.
It doesn't have to be on a alarger body of of water that
they have to, you know, they canput put down with the pontoons.
Yes.
Like you said, if it if there'sa beach or something like that,
they could do that.
Cool.
See all these things.
SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
Small things though.
It's it's it's hard to land on afloat plane with a packed canoe
and and and and not start onshore.
You know, with a hard shellcanoe, they can just drop the
boat in the water and throw yourstuff at it and push you off and
say see you later.
So and away you go.
Yeah.
There are the there are thosesmall details you need to be
aware of sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (20:37):
How long does it take you to reassemble it?
SPEAKER_03 (20:40):
45 minutes, maybe an hour, you know, maybe an hour
fifteen, just depending.
And you know, I don't knowwhat's your take, Brian.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm thinking we're always done
within an hour.
Yeah, from start to finish.
Sometimes we're a little more umI don't know, particular fussy
or the conditions are in aswell, right?
You know, if it's really windyor really buggy, or or uh the
site's not as comfortable, likeuh just um you know, if the
(21:11):
ground is not as good for justmoving around, because you have
to go from one side to the otherside, and you know.
But yeah, we've we've done itenough.
Um it's always a little bit, oh,we haven't done this in a year,
what do we have to do?
But it it it goes pretty easy.
And it's certainly easier withtwo people.
And and I'm sure we can take itapart in half that time and roll
it all up and have it packedaway pretty quick.
SPEAKER_00 (21:33):
So obviously, with a trip like this, you guys are
well prepared for like what ifthere's an emergency, what if
you somebody breaks an ankle?
What if somebody or yeah, haveyou done?
I'm assuming with the ForestService you may have done
wilderness first aid training.
SPEAKER_03 (21:46):
Yeah, it's been a while for me.
Uh, but yeah, you know, we'redifferent first aid training.
Um we try to bring a fairlycomprehensive first aid kit um
that we've never actuallyneeded, uh which is a good
thing.
Um and um you know, and and ofcourse we have communication now
(22:08):
more than we ever used to.
You know, back in the day it wasyou had nothing, you know, paper
maps uh I'll pick you up at thisspot in three weeks and hope
you're gonna get there.
And now it's like, well, wecould have real, almost
real-time communication with youknow a clinic or a doctor or
something if we got into a anissue.
(22:28):
Um so there's that, and thathelps.
Um, but there's a certain amountof personal care, self-care that
I think each of us carries ontothe trail.
You know, we're very carefulabout what we're doing, you
know, so it's preventative.
Um, you know, we don't let stuffhappen to us and and you know,
(22:51):
break a bone or hurt ourselves.
Uh, you know, so there was anelement of caution that goes in
with our planning.
SPEAKER_01 (22:59):
Yeah, we I think we brag that our troops are very
unadventful and and there's notnecessarily great stories to
tell because we try to live ourlife simple when we're up there
and be successful and we want tobe in nature on on the land,
seeing the wildlife, and we'drather not deal with other
issues that complicate things.
(23:21):
Trauma.
Trauma, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (23:23):
Trauma.
Yeah, we don't want our tent toblow down and have that be an
issue, or our canoe blow awayand have that be an issue, or
run out of food, or you know,any of the other number things
that could happen, you know.
So it's it's like we're fairlytight on on routines and safety
and the things we look out forum to avoid avoid those issues,
(23:48):
trauma.
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
Somewhat off top of it, but you're talking about the
wind.
What's the landscape like in thein the areas that you tend to to
go to?
Like is it are we are we talkinglike shrubs and like beyond the
trees kind of a thing?
SPEAKER_03 (24:04):
It's uh it's barren lands by and large.
I mean, there's a few riverswhere the trees follow the river
for quite a way.
You know, the Horton River isone, the copper mine is one
where there's you know quite afew trees on the river, but uh
for much of our trips, many ofour trips, most of our trips, uh
it's just barren land.
Uh it's tundra.
(24:25):
And uh so the wind rules.
Um, there's nothing to slow thewind down.
And you know, and it can changewithin the day, you know, from
being wind bound with the windfrom one direction to being
windbound with the wind fromanother direction, and all in
the in the same day.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
And that is really good being barren lands because
it opens up uh your visibility.
You get out of the tent in themorning if there's a wolf on a
ridge, you're gonna see it ifit's you know a few a few meters
away or or even a kilometer ortwo away, because your
visibility is great.
So you you don't miss as muchwildlife opportunity.
There's no forest or trees inthe way.
(25:05):
It uh it makes portaging supereasy from a you know, you don't
need a portage trail, right?
You you can get to a high point,literally stand on a rock, and
see where the next lake is andgo, well, we know where our
target is, and then you justlook for the the easiest,
driest, best footing, which issuper good.
And it's if you like to walk orhike every night on the land,
(25:27):
it's just out the tent door orthe kitchen shelter, and just
let's go to that rise and get tothat rise, and where do you want
to go next?
And it's uh such a welcomingarea of of land to go on,
provided that the you'reprepared for it and the
conditions are good and you'reokay being comfortable when
you're uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Well, and that what do you use for fuel then?
So it's just scrub that you'reable to gather, or how do you
get campfire fuel?
SPEAKER_03 (25:55):
We we pretty much use white gas, you know, camp
fuel.
And you know, there are otherways to do it for sure, but you
know, that's just what we'velocked into.
And uh and so one of thoselogistical questions that you
have to deal with is well, howcan you get white gas where
you're going?
You know, we we know we can getit at you know, one of the
(26:17):
co-ops in in Baker Lake, and oneco-op charges twice as much as
the other, so you know, we weknow where to go.
And you know, Norman Wells, youknow, we picked it up at uh I
forget what's it, Northern Storeor something.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
Yeah, I think both stores had it.
We've never really had much of aproblem getting fuel.
And Jim and I have just migratedto that.
It's simple, it's fast, it'sconvenient, it's clean.
But lots of people would usestick stoves now and and you
know, use little branches offthe land.
Typically where we are, there'sthere's limited firewood from a
(26:57):
a size perspective.
You know, you're not gonna getmuch um wood that's much bigger
than like kidding kind of stuff,but with a stick stove you can
you can cook fine, you know,with stuff the size of your
fingers or thumbs.
And yeah, it's it's not thatmuch different than canoe
tripping down south in thatperspective.
We bring basically the same uhthe same stuff.
(27:20):
We we just bring a little morewarm clothing, and uh and our
trips are typically three weekslong-ish.
So, you know, we're packing morefood, but um, and the other
thing is because there's notrees, you know, you're on the
bare lands, and and the the windcan be an issue, but so can the
heat and so can the bugs, butthen you need some sort of you
(27:40):
know, tenting and maybe youknow, shelter, like a tarp, um
kitchen protection, etc., thatdoesn't rely on trees, so
something that's freestanding,or you can use your poles or
your paddles for last year.
We spent a lot of time with thecanoe on edge because it was uh
it just worked very well for usto give us some shelter when we
(28:03):
we wanted to get out of the windand that.
And but yeah, no no trees is uhan issue if you want to do a
hammock or if you want to use atraditional tarp and and do a
ridgeline or something, youknow.
We're always staking our tarpdown and using paddles as poles
to give it structure and that.
SPEAKER_03 (28:22):
Yeah.
And if you are looking for orhoping for an evening campfire,
well, no deal.
No deal.
With the a few exceptions, youknow, if you're along the coast,
there's often more wood alongthe coast.
SPEAKER_02 (28:36):
No like driftwood or something like that.
SPEAKER_03 (28:38):
Yeah, yeah.
But also in the national parkthat we were in, uh there was no
open fires allowed.
So, you know, that's anotheranother aspect to be aware of,
and you know, that you don'thave to deal with back in the
tree line and uh generally.
SPEAKER_02 (28:54):
Well, yeah, and and you mentioned earlier, or sorry,
alluded to the warmer, the lastfew years have been warmer.
We're experiencing that here.
We're in fire band season likeall the time now.
So I actually have a flickeringlight so that I can pluck it in
the campfire so that at leastyou get that that feel, right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:14):
Of course, the other thing in the Arctic is we
typically have 24 hours of s ofdaylight.
If we don't have 20 hours ofdaylight, we certainly have 24
hours of what we would considerdaylight given the the twilight.
Um, so you don't need a campfirefor that aspect to you know give
the ambience and have a nice youknow evening around.
SPEAKER_03 (29:37):
And and you don't need a headlamp either.
Yeah, you don't take a headless.
Yeah, we just something we'venever never brought with us.
And uh another common questionwe get is well, gosh, that
you're going pretty far north.
You know, aren't you gonna seenorthern lights?
Well, no, it's it's uh light 24hours, you know.
(29:58):
There's you can't see anything.
Anything.
You can't see the northernlights.
SPEAKER_00 (30:02):
It's not dark enough to see the northern lights.
SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
Yeah, and that and that that also means you can get
up whenever you want and paddle.
Like you can beat the wind everymorning if you want to get up at
two o'clock or three o'clock inthe morning and start piling.
And if you get up to go to thebathroom during the night, you
don't need a flashlight or aheadlamp.
You just walk out the tent doorand it's it's bright enough,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
Does it affect your ability to sleep at night when
it's not getting dark?
SPEAKER_01 (30:29):
It doesn't affect Jim's and I ability to have a
nap at 10 o'clock in the morningif we're windbound and another
nap at 2 o'clock in theafternoon if we're still
windbound.
SPEAKER_03 (30:46):
Either side of 50 degrees Fahrenheit, and uh, you
know, that the sun is is warm,but not you know, often not too
warm.
Uh you know, there's gooddaylight, you know, uh it's just
my favorite environment.
SPEAKER_02 (31:05):
With all that light, I would assume you guys are
dragging, not dragging, takingalong some like a solar panel,
and you just recharge all yourelectronics that way.
SPEAKER_01 (31:14):
Yeah, we bring one solar panel and um and a and a
battery bank.
And we've had great successgoing back to uh so I at since
Jim and I started pilingtogether.
SPEAKER_03 (31:30):
I think so.
SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
I I I don't Yeah, I certainly remember we had it.
Yeah, I I I've been a prettyearly adopter.
I had I was doing my journal,I'm sure, in 2012 on an
electronic device with a solaryeah.
I certainly remember the Kujuwauh and the the was the other
river we did on north of theKujua, northeast of the Kujuwa.
SPEAKER_03 (31:53):
Nanook.
Nanook, yeah.
We certainly remember charging,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
And and the and the trick now is we bring us well,
I'd say a slightly bigger solarpanel than we need.
It's not big, it's like the28-watt solar panel, 30 watt
solar panel, just because we cancharge on overcast conditions in
the Arctic without an issue tocharge you know an iPhone.
Yeah, it's same here.
SPEAKER_02 (32:15):
I think ours is 26 watts for what I drive around.
Yeah, and a and a you know,whatever, 50,000 milliwatt or
milliamp hour power bank orwhatever, and that's it's enough
to run all of it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Yeah, and I think we could go with certainly less,
like half that solar panel if itwas always sunny.
But in the Arctic, you caneasily get, you know, you can
get some, as as we had lastyear, you can get some cold,
windy, snowy days where uh Jimand I were basically doing half
days portaging because we wereon a just uh uh connecting the
(32:50):
two rivers, which was about a 10kilometer portage.
So we were walking about a fewhours every day and spending the
rest of the day in the tentstaying warm, which means we're
reading books on our on our onour iPhones, and it's cold, so
your battery life isn't as long,and you're using your phone more
for being in the tent forjournaling and doing books and
(33:11):
stuff, so then you're you youneed to charge more, and of
course, you're in this badcharging weather.
For us, it was slightly belowzero and cloudy and snowy, and
there was we had ocean fog everymorning because we I think we
were within certainly 80kilometers of the coast, so the
fog would roll in.
We had to wait for the fog toroll out before we really were
(33:32):
keen to go out and do ourportage.
So a little bit bigger solarpanel, and we could charge
during less than you know, idealsolar solar panel charging
conditions.
SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
So you mentioned wildlife, Brian, uh and look
wolves, other examples ofwildlife that you guys have
encountered?
SPEAKER_03 (33:51):
Well, we saw we saw a grizzly bear at about a
quarter mile last summer, andyou know, we you know, because
it's the barren lands, you know,and um there was some terrain as
well.
So you you had you know, we weresort of in this bowl of a river
valley, and up on the hillsidewe could see a brown shape, and
(34:11):
you know, we got just a littlebit closer and could see that it
was a grizzly bear, and I thinkit knew we were there, and but
it just kept doing what it wasdoing, and you know, foraging on
the hillside and left us alone,and we left it alone, and you
know, sort of went our separateways.
But there were many, manycaribou.
(34:33):
This particular uh area, uh thisnational park is is home to the
breeding uh breeding area or thecalving area of the blue-nosed
caribou herd.
And so we were seeing herds andherds of you know of caribou,
mainly cows with calves, youknow, some bulls.
(34:54):
But you know, at one point I wasoutside, had the wind in my
ears, I couldn't really hear.
Brian's in the tent, he'sreading, and he said, What's
that noise?
I said, Well, what noise?
I can't, I'm not hearinganything.
There's something across theriver.
So I went and looked, and therewas, I don't know, a couple
hundred caribou, you know, thatwere working their way along the
(35:16):
shore of the river, and youknow, they grunt and they their
the their heels or their legsmake a clicking noise, and so
there was all that kind of kindof noise, you know, associated
with the caribou.
And and I I wasn't hearing it atall, but Brian, you know, could
hear it in the tent.
But yeah, got some nice video ofthat uh that particular herd.
SPEAKER_01 (35:41):
Yeah, we've over the years we've seen, you know, I
think you could almost say, youknow, we've seen it all.
But last summer we didn't wedidn't see any sandhill cranes,
which is really unusual.
But we always see swans, wealways see pharmigan.
Uh we often see caribou andbear, whether that be grizzly or
polar bear.
(36:01):
We often see um fox, hare,muskox.
Um last year wasn't a good yearfor wolves, but wolves are
pretty common.
Yeah, and and vary in terms ofyou know whether we're seeing
them like we've had grizzlybears just down at the water and
we're just floating down theriver, and we can float right by
(36:21):
them.
Go float right by them, theydon't even notice us.
But and other times you're uhyou're backpiling on the river
because there are so manycaribou swimming in the river,
or or you it's hard to get waterbecause there's so much caribou
hair in the river.
Yeah, you just you never know.
SPEAKER_03 (36:34):
Yeah, on the copper mine, we we saw a number of
moose, which that's pretty farnorth, you know, and they but
they were you know followed theyou know the the river, the
copper mine river, uh almost tothe ocean.
And at one point there was acalf that would began swimming
the the river, and we werefloating down to it, you know,
sort of inadvertently gettingbetween you know the calf and
(36:57):
its mom, which was on the othershore.
And mom came in the water andshe was coming for us.
And we we had to do some sort ofquick paddles to sort of get
more space between us and thecalf.
And and you know, she camearound and you know, sort of
herded her calf towards theshore at that point, and you
(37:19):
know, so it was a minor bit ofexcitement, but interesting
interaction, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (37:25):
Always exciting when we see a wolverine, too, because
they're pretty elusive for forsites.
And the other thing that thatI'm always taking by surprise, I
think Jim a little less becauseof his you know professional
background as a as a biologist,but when we're getting close to
the ocean stuff, we start seeingsigns of of ocean wildlife.
(37:46):
So we'll find a a skull alongthe river and it's it's from a
seal.
And I'm not I'm not instantlythinking seal, but Jim being a
wildlife biologist is a littlemore adapt sometimes to the to
the where we are in terms of youknow the the habitat.
And uh so it's always fun to seeyou know seals' heads poking out
(38:07):
of the water and and that kindof stuff on on trips.
And fish species change too whenyou get you know farther north
and and and um closer to the uhto the ocean stuff as well.
SPEAKER_00 (38:19):
And so it's and do you fish on your trips?
SPEAKER_03 (38:24):
I I I like to fish.
Um I this particular summer umfishing wasn't great.
You know, I I caught a fewgrayling and uh you know because
of some of our our travelschedule, I didn't fish the
couple of lakes that we were on.
It just wasn't working out foryou know how how the day each
(38:45):
day was unfolding, but there'sprobably lake trout.
Um but on other rivers, we'veyou know, the in other, you
know, where there's been somelakes and and better rapids,
I've you know, the the fishingcan be unbelievable.
I mean you're catching some justamazingly, you know, large lake
trout.
And uh the fishing is very fastas well.
(39:06):
And um, but you know, I I lovefishing.
If I catch nothing, I'm okaywith that.
That's just you know, I'd we'dnever rely on fish because I've
been disappointed too manytimes, you know, to count on
fish.
SPEAKER_02 (39:22):
You and me both.
SPEAKER_03 (39:23):
Yeah.
You know, it's like, well, I'mgonna I'm gonna pack less food
and you know, plan on catchingfish.
Well, no, that that neverhappens.
That never happens.
SPEAKER_01 (39:31):
That's the drama that Jim and I like to avoid.
Running out of food.
SPEAKER_02 (39:36):
Right.
Yeah.
I'm starving, do a better job atfishing.
SPEAKER_00 (39:40):
Yeah, right.
So what's coming up this yearfor you guys?
Or in 2026, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
We are always thinking of something, and we're
not always fast to make adecision, but we we we have our
eye on on a on a on our on afairly straightforward, easy
river trip in in the centralbarrens.
We we kind of like the morecentral barrens more so than the
than the mountainous stuff.
Um in the last few years we'vebeen pretty far north.
(40:08):
We've had great success with uhbeing right along the basically
the northwest passage for thelast three or four years.
And um, it's just time to maybedo go somewhere else.
SPEAKER_03 (40:19):
And yeah, I think we're we're trying to avoid the
10 kilometer portage again.
Uh that was you know mythinking.
It's like, well, maybe we canfind somewhere that's just a
little bit easier than what wedid last summer.
Um, you know, I'm okay withthat.
SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
Um the river over the years we haven't been sh um
hesitant to try to do somethinga little unique and not we've
done a lot of very classic rivertrips, you know, paddled the
thelon or the Kazan or whatever,but the copper mine, but we also
tried to do some you know alittle more unique stuff.
And last summer was a goodexample.
We connected two rivers that toour knowledge, you know, people
(41:00):
have never connected, and thenwe paddled more of the rivers
too all the way out to theocean, and we paddled the ocean
to get to the nearest community.
Um, so we we liked we like doingsomething a little unique and
adding to that, you know, theknowledge that's out there for
for future paddlers.
And and the north is sointerconnected, I always try not
(41:20):
to lose sleep over thingsbecause when you get there, it's
always pretty obvious that youcan just get from one body of
water to the next body of waterif you're willing to do a bit of
work.
And last summer we did a we dida bit of work on a couple
occasions.
SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
Well, yeah, I looked at the uh your map on your
website and and just went, wow.
That's that's wicked.
That's amazing.
All the places you guys havebeen.
It just like I'm not of the 10kilometer portage that I can do
(41:52):
without that, but I'm jealous ofthe uh just the amount of of
wild nature.
Like, do you run into so if fineif you're booking, if you're
trying to save some money on aflight or whatever, so you you
know, we book with other peopleoutside of that.
Do you run into other people onyour trips?
SPEAKER_03 (42:12):
Yeah, we we have, yeah.
Uh um there are some of therivers like the copper mine that
get paddled by many other groupsevery year.
And we ran into, you know, onthe copper mine, two groups from
Minnesota, uh, from uh a YMCAcamp and uh outside of Ely.
And uh, you know, so that that'sfairly common.
(42:35):
I've run into groups from thesame camp on, I don't know,
probably three or four othertrips.
And you know, and we we've runinto uh uh certainly Inuit
people out on the land, youknow, that are they're you know,
boating out and camping, um, youknow, hunting and fishing.
And uh, you know, that's alwaysfun.
(42:56):
Uh fun to talk with them.
Um and uh trying to think whoelse.
SPEAKER_01 (43:01):
We've run into, I guess over the years, a few, you
know, European trials that wouldseek the Northern Canadian and
and and other Canadian, youknow, paddlers as well, or
American paddlers.
Some years we know we havefriends just ahead of us or just
behind us, or on the next riverover or something.
(43:23):
Sometimes when you fly in, youcan ask the the air charter
company or the pilots, like,hey, you know, are we are we the
first group this year?
Is anybody ahead of us or behindus?
But some places we go, we knowwe're the only padders that
year, or for the next you know,couple years, just or the last
you know, few years, there justhasn't been people piling in
(43:46):
that area.
SPEAKER_03 (43:47):
Yeah, some some of our routes of are pretty
obscure.
You know, they're they're notnot well known by people looking
to do a river like the Kazan orThilon.
You know, those are fairlystraightforward, well-known
rivers, but you know, like ourtrip from Parker Lake to Rankin
(44:07):
Inlet was I I don't know.
I imagine people have done thattrip.
Uh Brian might know them, Idon't, but uh there was nobody
else on the river, on thoserivers that summer in that area.
SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
And uh so yeah, and and some trips are certainly
have outfitters, like you know,we were on the Horton, and the
Horton's a pretty popular riverfor you can sign up with a canoe
outfit company and they'll takeyou down the river.
SPEAKER_00 (44:34):
And so do you document your travels just for
yourselves, or is there a bookin the works, or is there a
documentary coming?
SPEAKER_03 (44:42):
Um, well, you know, both Brian and I journal.
Uh we keep journals, so there'smaterial, you know, written in
the written word.
Um, you know, I do some writing.
Um, I done some radio work forour local community radio
station and uh have interviewedpeople like Brian and other
(45:04):
friends.
Um you know, uh there was aperiod where I was, you know,
producing something once a monthor so.
And uh so some of that mymaterial would make it into the
those radio bits.
And uh, but Brian and I havebeen doing uh presentations at
like the Far North Symposium anduh the Wilderness Canoe
(45:25):
Symposium.
Um, you know, Brian will bepresenting there this coming
year, and uh we'll be presentingit in Minneapolis as well uh in
the coming year.
So that material makes it intothose places as well, those
outlets.
We'll have to make a trip to thesymposium for that.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (45:45):
I could probably get talked into.
SPEAKER_01 (45:49):
I I I think the only other thing we could just
briefly touch on is the factthat if you want to expand, you
know, beyond your local paddlingarea or or even just go on
bigger trips, even if you'restaying in in Ontario.
And there's nothing you knowwrong with that, right?
There's just there's lots ofresources out there in terms of
you know joining a paddlingorganization, taking a course,
(46:10):
um, using social media or or youknow, old school networks to
expand your the people you'repaddling with in terms of skills
and experience and diversities,and you know, that kind of Jim
and I have spent a long timegetting to where we are, but you
know, there are means toaccelerate that gaining
experience, right?
(46:31):
And paddling within your limits,you know, judgment goes a long
way, sometimes more so thanskill can go, but skill can also
help out.
SPEAKER_03 (46:39):
Yeah, don't don't be afraid to learn from others and
you know to realize that youmight not know it all.
You know, I think that's a uhthat's a very um real trap to
fall into.
It's like, well, I've paddled inthe boundary waters for many
years, I know it all.
And and you wind up on a on abig Arctic river, and you you
(47:03):
can be humbled very quickly.
And uh so you know, go into itwith your eyes open and your
ears open, especially to learnfrom others.
SPEAKER_02 (47:13):
Well, absolutely.
I mean, I I would echo that in aI I have logged, you know, a
boatload of boatload of ofpaddling time.
I thought I was a pretty goodpaddler, and then I tried
Whitewater with I know nothing.
SPEAKER_01 (47:26):
Yeah, it's it's a big, vast world, right?
There's a lot of diversity to itin terms of even paddle craft,
right?
Um, but you know, be adaptable,be flexible.
One of the things I love aboutpaddling is that there's many
different ways of doing things,and and they're not necessarily
right or wrong, they're justdifferent.
So, like we mentioned that Jimand I travel and we use a stove,
(47:46):
but you could easily travel anduse a stick stove and and not a
you know a fuel-based stove.
And there's many ways of doingthings, which is which is really
good.
I've I've certainly learned lotsof things over the years, and
I'm still learning things, andsometimes it's kind of like you
know, wow, like I never thoughtof that, but you know, it works.
(48:07):
Maybe it's not the way I want todo things, but it certainly
works.
SPEAKER_00 (48:10):
Well, that's where something somebody we talked to
recently was saying that uhbecause you said about the
discomfort and just that you canlive with discomfort, it's not
you're not gonna dieuncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01 (48:20):
So yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
But if you're talking about situations, you
learn what you can what you canyou know build your resilience
and you learn what you can whatyou can deal with.
SPEAKER_02 (48:29):
Yeah, and and it gets you out of like you know,
we all think in a certain way,and but different from each
other.
So watching somebody else dosomething or just listening to
somebody else talk about howthey do something, it's like,
oh, that could be, yeah, maybeI'll try that just just because
just push yourself out of yourcomfort zone.
SPEAKER_01 (48:50):
Being uncomfortable can also save your life.
So I'm a I'm a big fan of I'mcomfortable being chilled for a
long time because I don't wantto get sweaty and moisture
because the sweat and themoisture will kill you faster
than being chilled will.
So it's not it's not always abad thing.
Oh no, I'm I'm all for beingcool.
(49:10):
I I sweat at the drop.
Well, you're perfect, as Jimsays.
It's it's perfect, comfortabletemperature when you're a pile
in north of 60.
SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
That's it for us for today.
Thank you so much to Jim andBrian for joining us and telling
us about their adventures in thein the tundra.
And we would love to hear fromyou if you want to talk to us
anytime.
We are at high atsupergoodcamping.com.
That's H I atSupergoodcamping.com, and you
can find us on all the socialmedia.
And we will talk to you againsoon.
unknown (49:37):
Bye.
SPEAKER_00 (49:37):
Bye.
Thank you.
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