June 16, 2025 • 41 mins
The line between thriving wilderness and dangerous bear encounters often comes down to one simple thing: how we store our food in the backcountry. Grant Breidenbach from Bear Vault joins us to reveal fascinating insights about bear behavior and the science behind effective food protection strategies.
Bears possess what scientists call "spatio-temporal memory" – they remember both where and when they found food sources. This remarkable adaptation serves them perfectly in natural settings but creates serious problems when they discover human food. With noses containing four times the scent receptors of a bloodhound and surprising intelligence, bears quickly learn that our calorie-dense snacks offer more reward for less effort than foraging naturally. As Grant explains, "Human food, not even once" should be our mantra when it comes to bears.
We explore how traditional food-hanging methods have become increasingly ineffective as bears learn to defeat them – chewing through ropes, breaking branches, or even shimmying across lines to access suspended food bags. The Bear Vault's ingenious design, with its slippery sides and carefully engineered dimensions, creates a physical barrier bears simply cannot defeat. After trying and receiving no food reward, bears quickly return to their natural diet.
Most powerfully, Grant shifts our perspective from self-protection to ecosystem preservation: "There's no such thing as a problem bear – there are problem people." When we fail to properly store food, we set bears up for dangerous behavior that often leads to their euthanization. One Colorado case study showed a 98% reduction in human-bear conflicts within five years after implementing canister requirements and education.
Whether you're planning your first wilderness adventure or are a seasoned backcountry traveler, this conversation will transform how you think about food storage and bear protection. Join us in understanding that when we enter the wilderness, we're guests in the bear's home – and protecting them is our responsibility.
Subscribe now for more insightful conversations about adventure, conservation, and responsible outdoor recreation!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and good day.
Welcome to the Super GoodCamping podcast.
My name is Pamela.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Tim.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
And we are from supergoodcampingcom.
We're here because we're on amission to inspire other people
to get outside and enjoy campingadventures such as we have as a
family.
Today's guest is the marketingmanager for a very cool product.
We had the pleasure of meetinghim at the Toronto Outdoor
Adventure Show and seeing one ofhis canisters.
That got a bit of a real lifetest out in the field.
Please welcome GrantBreidenbach.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hey, welcome.
Thank you so much for having meon the show.
It's really awesome to get tochat with you guys this
afternoon.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, it was nice to talk to you for a second time.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, I hope you had a great week.
It's been a little pause inbetween the time we met and the
time we're doing the podcastbecause somebody was doing a
honeymoon.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So I hope that was incredible.
Yes, oh, it was.
It was a really, really greattime.
And has any of that snow meltedup in Toronto?
Last time I was up there, itwas buried up to the neck.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
It seemed like this was a.
This was a snowy season for usthis year.
The last two previous to thatwere nothing.
I don't even know if I brokeout the snowblower on one of the
years at all.
Yet we're all good.
They're just starting to do.
I think recently, you know,maybe, maybe the last couple of
weeks.
Uh, they've started to do iceouts up farther north was um
(01:18):
algonquin and stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Okay, won't be long until the canoes are on the lake
.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's awesome canoes are on the lake already.
Okay.
They awesome Canoes are on thelake already, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
They don't wait.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
All right, that's fantastic, our paddling season
is too short for most of thehardcore ones, so they're out
there as soon as they can breakthrough.
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
And you've got a limited amount of time before
the mosquitoes really hatch too,and you've got to kind of
exploit that.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
If we're lucky, we get a couple of weeks.
Yeah, and black flies and allthe good fun things, yeah,
things that I don't enjoy.
Well, and for me it's not a bigissue, I don't get bit that
much.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Pamela, on the other hand, is an absolute magnet for
them that and I get an allergicreaction to the bites.
So I get these big red itchywelts that drive me crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And then she's not very fun to camp with.
Totally fair, Give us a bit ofan origin story for for bear
vaults.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah.
So bear vault came out of theSierra range down in in
California and really it goesback even a little bit before
bear vault, into the 80s and 90sand out in the backcountry.
There you've got black bearsand they were running into a ton
of trouble with bears gettinginto backpackers' foods.
And the bears were getting moreaggressive.
They were just totally losingtheir fear towards humans.
They just weren't acting likebears anymore.
(02:42):
And you know, the unfortunatething is that meant that a lot
of bears were also having to beeuthanized.
And you know, we all know thatbears are such a critical part
of their ecosystem.
And you know, somebody was likewe've got to do something.
You know, like food over thetree is just not working.
These bears have long figuredthat out, dragging it out of the
tree.
You know, chowing down on thesecalories.
(03:04):
We figured that out dragging itout of the tree, you know,
chowing down on these calories.
We need some way to to properlystore food.
And so, um, basically somebodycame along and the first bear
canister was this thick blackABS plastic.
Um and uh it.
You know it was kind of roughbut it got the job done and you
know the bears would check itout, roll it around and it
worked really quickly.
(03:24):
Suddenly, the bears weren'taccessing human food and the
bears were quickly saying, youknow, actually, those berries
that are eating, or you knowwhatever that natural food
source in the season was, thebears were going back to that
food source and the ecosystemwas healing as a result.
And then so in the early 2000s,the folks that started Bear
(03:45):
Vault came along and said youknow, we love the concept, you
know it's doing a really goodjob protecting the bears.
But this original bear canisteris not very user friendly, like
it's very effective for thebears but it's a pain to use for
somebody and it's also a painto haul it around.
You can't fit very much food init.
And so Bare Vault came alongand said what if we made the
(04:10):
sides clear so that you couldsee your food inside?
It made the opening wide sothat you could actually get your
hand in there to find yourSnickers bar, and made the lock
so that you didn't need a toolto open it so you could just
open it with your hands.
So really, you know, buildingoff of the idea of those
previous canisters, but thenBare Vault, you know, really is
(04:33):
the biggest provider of bareresistant food containers on the
market and we get the chance to, you know, work with people all
over to, you know, providecanisters and we've been able to
see not just in the Sierra butin other places.
When canisters start using, theecosystem starts to heal and
the bears become healthy andwe've been able to see that in
(04:53):
so many places.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
And it's just the coolest, coolest thing, and so
it's helping the bears becauseit's what they're getting.
Snickers bars is not good forbears.
It's good for us, not good forus either.
But also, because they'regetting Snickers bars is not
good for bears, good for us, notgood for us either.
But also because they'rebecoming habituated into like
there's human food and I don'tneed to eat.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Exactly so.
Bears, you know, bears is kindof this unnecessarily fancy word
called spatio-temporal memoryand all it really means is that
bears think both in terms ofspace and time.
So that's where they found foodand when they found food, and
that's, you know, how theyevolved and that normally works
really well for them, right?
You know, I found huckleberrieson a particular hillside in a
(05:34):
particular time of year and theygo back to that place again and
again and they teach theiryoung to go back there as well.
Right, and that works reallywell for them.
That's how they are able to getthe calories they need to
hibernate all winter and, youknow, do everything that a happy
, healthy bear does.
But unfortunately, you know, ourhuman food is really the
(05:54):
biggest trap for a bear.
You think about the calories.
We've been talking aboutSnickers bars, or you know
dehydrated food.
You know are ultra processed,refined or even just all in the
same place.
Our human food is supercalorically dense and you know
the time it takes a bear to eata Snickers bar versus, you know,
a patch of berries, or diggingup grubs, or you know tearing
(06:17):
apart a log to find fungusinside or you know whatever that
food source for the season isit's way easier for the bears to
access our human food.
And so once a bear startsgetting in trouble, and so often
we're like, oh, it's a problembear, that bear's in trouble.
But really there's no suchthing as a problem bear.
(06:39):
There's problem, people, thatwe've set the bears up for
failure.
You know, they're just.
They're just doing what they'venaturally evolved to do, and
and doing it really well, youknow, with their incredible
noses, eyes, ears, and so whenwe go into the bear's home, you
know whether that's paddling orwhether that is backpacking or
(06:59):
whatever our wilderness activityis.
You know it's it's.
You know, at Bear Vault.
We see it as that.
We're in the bear's home, youknow, and and it's our
responsibility to be a goodsteward of of that bear's home.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
That's excellent, I think.
I think a lot of previousdiscussion about food in the
back country has been aboutkeeping your food as opposed to
not giving it to bears.
Exactly, you know what I'msaying?
It's a two.
It's two different philosophiesin the grand scheme of things.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
And I think you can have both.
You know and and you knowthere's some people that they
you know I think there's there'sthree reasons.
People get a canister.
You know they're they'rebackpacking somewhere.
That you know, especially downin the States, that there's a
legal requirement and that youknow the park service has, has
(07:51):
basically made the choice foryou and said, hey, you're going
to carry this and you're goingto protect the bears.
Or, like you mentioned,somebody is doing it because
they want that security, theywant trip insurance, they don't
want to go hungry without theirmorning coffee, or they're doing
it because they truly careabout the bears.
And the nice thing is that itdoes it all.
Regardless of what your reasonis, you get all of those
benefits and you don't have topick and choose.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Interesting.
I didn't realize that.
I know that they're speakingfor here in Ontario, I want to
say for Canada, but I'm not ahundred percent sure.
I know there's requirements inspecific areas, and I actually
think boundary waters, which isclose to us.
But on right, um, you have tohang.
That's, that's their, theydon't they, they don't mandate
(08:34):
that you have to have it in a,in a vessel of any type or
anything like that, but you haveto hang.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
so so, yeah, so the boundary waters, canoe area they
were.
We've been really excited aboutwhat, what they've been doing
down there, because for years,you know, they've basically just
said it's a free-for-all.
You can use your food as apillow if you want to, or you
know, whatever you want.
And it's not a great idea.
And you know so much.
You know food conditioninghabituation and you know, and in
(09:07):
places that can be, you knowcultural and how that works and
has evolved.
But they've with time seen thatoh, that doesn't work that well
.
And suddenly these bears aregetting really unhealthy.
People are having, you know,bears that have lost all their
fear of humans.
You know, come through thesepaddling campsites in the middle
of nowhere and you know, andsuddenly they need to do
something differently.
So they've implemented what theForest Service in the States
(09:29):
calls a food storage order andthey can take different shapes
and sizes.
They're written a little bitdifferently from forest to
forest or in the national parks.
This one specifically says thatanytime food is unattended which
also includes if you're doing adouble carry on a portage
anytime that food's unattendedit needs to be hung very well in
(09:50):
a tree or in an IGBC certifiedbear canister.
And that IGBC certification wecan talk a little bit more about
that, but basically it's thisinteragency group of different
biologists and managing agenciesin the states that basically
throw a bear canister in withthese professional grizzly bears
(10:10):
for about an hour and they tryto tear it apart and if they
can't get in, they say all right, your product's good to go.
We give you the seal ofapproval, so in the boundary
waters you can either do aproper hang or use one of these
IGPC approved containers.
But really we're seeing thatmost people are choosing the
IGPC containers because ifthey're double carrying they're
(10:33):
not going to bother to stringeverything up in a tree while
they're taking their canoe andleaving their food, or vice
versa, unless they can leave akid to hang out with the food or
whatnot, To find out the bearthat's coming to get the food,
exactly, yeah, leave, leave thekid to fend off the bear Right.
And then the other thing too.
You know a lot of those trees,even the boundary waters, and
(10:56):
you know as, as you work youryour way North, especially into
Ontario, the trees get smallerand smaller.
You know, and you know in someplaces maybe if you took all the
time in the world to get itright and break out the pulleys,
you could get something that'syou know textbook.
But you know so many placeswith you know coniferous trees,
it's just not really feasible toget a quote unquote textbook
(11:17):
hang.
Or you know, there's like thebranch that's great.
And then you know, after a fewyears of everyone camping there,
you know those tree branchesbasically get sawed off by all
the ropes going over it, and sowe're seeing a lot of people
adopting the canisters in theboundary waters and we're really
excited about it and hope tosee the human-bear conflict
(11:39):
decrease over the next few yearsas a result.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
That's excellent and I'm glad that the agencies are
working with whatever like folkslike yourself that can provide
different solutions.
I know that part of aconversation with Cliff Jacobson
.
He was very unhappy that theywere mandating hanging, he's
(12:03):
like no, that's the stupidestthing in the world.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, there's definitely.
You know.
I think it can be generational.
You know, and even even whenplaces have say permitted uh,
permitted hanging for thelongest time, and they say you
know what they're?
The bears are pulling downthese hangs, you have to use a
canister, you know, theredefinitely are people that say
oh, you know, I've been doing itthis way for 40 years, why
would I do it any different?
But I think what people need torecognize is it's not the same
(12:32):
bears that were there 40 yearsago.
You know there's been morepeople accessing these
backcountry locations, there'sbeen more food exposure for the
bears and they're more foodconditioned than they were 40
years ago.
And you know what what may haveworked, you know.
At that point, you know our,our tools and techniques need to
change.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah Well, in science , science learns and evolves.
I mean that's just that's thenature of it.
So, so yay that that.
You know I I've been hangingthem for forever.
I'm I'm also lazy, I'm not.
I'm not adverse to not havingto hang it Totally, not use it
as a pillow, but not have it.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
There's options, right so.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Grant, tell us about how exactly they can't get this
open.
What keeps them from getting itopen?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, it's really cool.
So basically it is sizedspecifically around a bear's jaw
and while it's this reallytough, thick, rugged plastic
it's, it's really.
You know, if a bear could gethis jaw around it it would.
It would crush right through it.
But the beauty is a jaw a bearcan't get his jaw around it.
It's.
It's built with these slipperysides and these rounded corners
(13:43):
so the bear just can't get agrip.
It just slips right off.
And so the bear will come up toit, check it out, have a little
soccer match with it, bat itback and forth.
It maybe moves around a fewsquare meters, but as long as
you don't have it next to aravine or a rushing rapid, it's
not going to really go anywhere.
(14:04):
And the bear basically realizesreally quickly that it's not
getting any food reward from thecanister.
It just can't get a grip, it'sslipping off.
It's using its preciouscalories and energy trying to
tear it open.
And when that doesn't work, thebear really quickly says, hmm,
those berries up on the hillsideweren't so bad After all.
(14:25):
I think I'm going to go messwith those instead of trying to
tear open this canister andexpend all of my precious energy
.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
So clear and unbreakable.
I'm assuming some kind ofpolycarbonate.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Exactly, yep, that's exactly what it's made out of.
It's a specialty blend, but youcan think of it similar to the
stuff out of bulletproof glass.
Exactly, yep, that's, that'sexactly what it's what it's made
out of.
It's a it's a specialty blend,but, you know, you can think of
it similar to like the stuff outof out of bulletproof glass.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Exactly, yep, yep, cool, and by specialty blend do
we have?
Does it?
Does it contribute to biggerweight, less?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
weight Of course you know we all wish it weighed.
Nothing you know, but.
But you know you could makesomething that is indestructible
and weighs, you know, agazillion pounds.
And we've, we've, worked reallyhard over the years to like,
find that careful balance ofstrong enough to you know, even,
even you know big grizzly bearsin in the West that you know
(15:20):
love to do like a pumping motionon it, but also younger,
juvenile black bears out eastthat have really sharp teeth and
can gnaw almost like a rodentand have these just razor sharp
teeth.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
And so we've worked really hard to find the
intersection of exactly howtough to make it but also as
light as possible so that you'renot cursing it while hauling it
across the portage or down thetrail well, I know that the the
the one that we saw when at theshow with you was surprised me
when I picked it up at how lightit was, because I expected it
(15:54):
to be much heavier than it thanit is.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
It also surprised me that the gouge is in it, and
yeah how did he not break intoit like oh, it's amazing yeah,
yeah, if, if you go to ourwebsite, we have some really fun
footage where you can see bearschewing on it and you can
really see how they approach itand different bears try
different tactics and techniques, you know, and they're just,
(16:17):
you know, they're naturallycurious animals.
So, like grizzly bears, you know, they're a little bit more kind
of brute force.
They'll walk right up to it,give it a little sniff and then,
you know, just immediately kindof basically doing like CPR on
it.
You know you can almost imaginelike staying alive by the Bee
Gees, you know, playing like ah,ah, ah, you know.
(16:39):
And then meanwhile the blackbears, they're like a little
more thoughtful.
They'll walk up to it kind ofgingerly, touch it, roll around,
they'll almost tap on it andlike listen to it, and then
they'll, they'll kind of mouthit and they'll try to find just
what they think might be thesoftest, weakest part.
Um, often that's why you'll seethem focus on the lid or around
the locking mechanism and try.
(17:00):
They're not gonna get in, butthey, they try their best there
and they're very strategic andit's just amazing to watch them
think through it and how theyapproach it until they
inevitably give up.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
We like the inevitability.
Yes, I'm still in a bit of amindset of I'm four days in and
if they take it, I don't haveenough food to get out.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Exactly, yeah, and that's really the big advantage
of a canister over like asoft-sided bag, because there
are some like IGBC approvedsoft-sided bags out there.
But the big downside there isthat you know your food turns
into a pulp, you know, insidethe bag, and like the sunscreen
is mixed into the oatmeal andthe oatmeal is mixed into the
(17:45):
camping fuel and you know it'scompletely inedible.
Where, with the bear vault, um,after you know, after you, you
know, get it back from the bear,you might have to wipe off some
, some saliva.
Or we've even seen bears thatwhen they're they're done and
tired, they drop a big pile ofscat on it because they're just
so, so frustrated, hired theydrop a big pile of scat on it
because they're just so, sofrustrated.
(18:06):
Exactly.
But you know, once you get thatcleaned off, you know your
food's, your food's good to goand your morning coffee will be
waiting for you.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
As soon as you started to say that that's what
I pictured, I thought no, hecan't be going there?
Oh he is.
Yeah, exactly, that's awesome.
So just thinking about sizesyou're talking about like an
opening that's big enough to getyour mid in there and pull
stuff back out.
Do they come in differentvolume sizes?
(18:37):
I would take a small one if Iwas doing a three-day weekend,
as opposed to I don't know.
Take a bigger one two and ahalf three gallons probably, if
I was doing a three day weekend,as opposed to, I don't know.
Take a.
Take a bigger one, two and ahalf three gallons probably, if
I was doing a seven or eight dayExactly.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Yeah, so we have four sizes.
Um, we call it like the sprint,jaunt, track and journey.
Um, you know, and it's, it'sone of those things where your
mileage may vary, especiallylike among the paddling
community.
You know, like, generally, likeit's pretty well said that
paddlers like to eat.
Well, you know, in the backcountry, and so you know, we
like to say the smallest one isone to two nights, the next
(19:13):
one's three to four, five to sixand seven up.
You know, we've had folks comeup and say, you know, oh my gosh
, here's your biggest canister.
I could barely get, you know, anight or two of food in there.
I, you know, I eat like a King.
Um, and other people you knowcome up to the exact same
canister and say, oh my gosh,you know, I freeze, dry
everything and pack it downsuper small and I, you know, I
(19:34):
don't eat that much and I canget two weeks in that.
So it, it's very much one ofthose your mileage may vary.
Um, you know, type situations.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, no, well, I mean, I could see that.
Uh, typically for for us, wetake, you know, maybe the first
day and a half or two days offresh food, so that takes up a
ton more space.
Oh, absolutely yeah.
And then the remainder isdehydrated, so so maybe I'm,
maybe I'm a bucket and a halfkind of a.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
we'll have to see.
Yeah, the fresh is great,though, you know, especially
when it's not blazing summer andit, you know, lasts just a
little bit longer.
It it's really.
It's worth it to have havethose good foods.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Absolutely.
Steaks on the, on the, on thegrill, or you know, real eggs in
the morning and real bacon inthe morning.
Yeah, that, that works for mefor sure.
Uh, how do you?
How do you pack them like?
Do you do it?
Because when we do, what arethey?
Poly polyurethane barrels?
The blue barrels?
yeah well, ours is red, but yes,okay um, they, they all come
(20:38):
with big, big harnesses andstuff.
Because you're carrying a tonof stuff in.
We tend to do one yep of doinglike, if you're talking about
one person, you know, say, sayseven-ish, whatever, seven-ish
days, that hits me if, if you're, if, so you're, if you're
tandem, you've got two of thoseright, whereas we tend to work
(20:58):
with one barrel.
For how many ever people aregoing and you just do smaller
barrels and stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
So there are a lot of different strategies.
Um, and I think you know people, people need to kind of figure
out what works best for for them, you know.
So when we talk aboutbackpacking, aside from paddling
, you know we're telling peoplepack it inside your backpack.
Um, you know, you think yourfood's heavy.
Your food's the heaviest thing,you know, for people who are
backpacking they don't have, youknow, for people who are
backpacking they don't have, youknow, a big kevlar canoe or an
(21:24):
aluminum canoe, you know yourfood's going to be the heaviest
item that you have and so thatonce you want to put that
relatively low and close to yourback, so ideally you're going
to put the canister in and turnit sideways in in the pack.
Um, when it comes to paddling,you know folks aren't
necessarily carrying a?
Um, you know a backpackingbackpack.
(21:47):
Some people, you know, usethose to carry items.
But you know you might havedifferent portage packs or, like
you said, you know, canoebarrels with harnesses.
So we've seen a lot of differentstyles and approaches, all of
which have their merits.
I've seen, I think a lot of ushave heard of Camper Christina.
She has this little day pack.
I think she even calls it herbear vault purse and she
(22:09):
basically just tucks thatcanister and it's pretty much
the only thing in that littleday pack and while she has her
canoe on her shoulders and she'sdouble carrying, that little
backpack with just the canistergoes along with her while she
takes the canoe.
We've seen a few companies thatactually make specific portage
(22:31):
packs that are exactly sized tofit the BV500, our largest BV500
Journey canister.
That can work really well.
They also can sit within thoseblue barrels.
You can put a canister rightwithin the blue barrel.
Or, last but not least, theyfit great anywhere within a
(22:53):
larger portage pack.
But generally speaking, becauseit's slippery and hard to get a
grip on for the bear, it can bea little slippery and hard for
us to get a grip on too.
So it's best to pack it in inanother backpack.
Just the important tip is thatyou know, say you're double
carrying and you bring, you know, the canister to to the other
(23:14):
spot where you're going to putyour canoe in, and you set it
down um, take the can out of thepack.
We've heard so many stories ofpeople that set their backpacks
down with all the food insideand then the backpack gets a
drug off to who knows where, andthere goes not just your food,
but also, you know, your tent,you know your fire equipment,
like everything you need to, youknow, survive and thrive in the
(23:37):
back country by.
So so you know, taking, takingthat canister out is a really
good rule of thumb.
Brilliant, yeah, hadn't hadn'tthought taking that canister out
is a really good rule of thumb,brilliant.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, hadn't thought about that.
That would suck, becausebackpacks aren't cheap.
Yeah, your barrel's gone, oryour canister's gone.
Your food's gone, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
So.
But despite the toughness ofthe bear vault they can still
smell through that, that theycan get a scent of the food.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Exactly.
Yeah, bear's noses areabsolutely incredible.
So my favorite way to visualizeit is if we were to take the
surface area inside of one ofour noses and you were to, like,
basically lay it out flat.
The surface area inside ournose is about the size of a
postage stamp.
If you took a bloodhound dogyou know, known for incredible
(24:27):
scent of smell, tracking allthese things and took all of its
scent receptors and laid it outflat, you'd have about a sheet
of printer paper.
Now if you took a black bear,you think about that big, long
nose that's actually hollowinside, with all these internal
chambers called turbinates, andif you laid it out flat, how,
(24:48):
how much would you guys think?
How, how, how big do you thinkit would be?
Four by eight sheet of plywood,okay, four by eight sheet of
plywood.
What do you think, pamela?
yeah, no, I'm gonna go aroundthere yeah, yeah, that's good,
it's a little small.
It'd be about four sheets ofprinter paper, so about four,
four times the bloodhound dogsand substantially more than our
(25:09):
little postage stamp.
Um, I think that just kind ofhelps visualize how incredible
their noses are.
So, with that in mind, we don'teven try to make it scent proof
and, and you know, there'sproducts out there that are
advertised, as you know,scent-proof liner, scent-proof
this, that, and they don'treally work.
(25:29):
I mean, they can substantiallyreduce the scent transmission,
you know.
But even you know the residueon your hands.
You know if you eat, you knowfood, you know you have granola
and then you touch that bearcanister, guess what?
There's food residue on there.
So it's more about you knowoutsmarting the bear's ability
to get in rather than you knowoutwitting their ability of of
(25:55):
smell.
I think a lot of another commonmisconception people think is
they're like okay, we know bearshave really good noses, but
they must be blind, bears mustnot have good eyesight, and so
we'll see people where they'relike oh yeah, it's really sealed
, or it's in one of thosefreeze-dried food packages, and
well, there's no way the bear'sgoing to smell that.
(26:16):
So I'm just going to set it outand the bear's not going to see
it.
Guess what?
The bear knows where thatcampsite is.
Like you know, your chances areyou're not camping in such a
remote place that nobody's evercamped there before.
The bear knows that people campthere, right?
Remember, we're talking aboutspatio-temporal memory.
The bear, good chance.
The bear has found food in thatplace before, and then maybe
(26:43):
there's food that's been sealedup.
But guess what?
The bear can still see it.
It sees that it looks like food.
Bears have an excellent senseof eyesight as well.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Note to self yes, my understanding is the whole hang.
The change in some of thethinking about hanging is
because bears have have learned,and or been taught by mom, to
figure, to see ropes and disablethe rope in order to get the
hang to come down, as opposed toclimb the tree and go out on
(27:16):
this skinny little branch andhave the whole thing break.
All that sort of jazz, Yep.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
I mean, we see every flavor of it, right, we see them
.
We see them chew through theropes.
I've got this whole file on mycomputer of, just like the
videos and the photos.
It's.
It's honestly fun to to look at.
But, you know, chew the ropes,um, send a cub, or even, you
know, mom will go out on thebranch and then, you know, just
break the entire branch off,which you know we've heard
stories of bears getting injureddoing that.
(27:40):
They're so focused on the foodthat they neglect their own
safety.
And then suddenly you've got aterribly injured bear in the
backcountry, or you've got thesebears that are total acrobats
and they will literally shimmyout on the line.
There's this incredible photoof this.
It's actually a bird feeder ona steel cable but the bear is
(28:01):
just shimmying out the line.
You know, probably, I don'tknow 15, 20 meters down the line
, um, and then, just you know,at one point it just hangs on by
its mouth on the line and thenit gets back on the line and
then tears the bird feeder downand it's, it's.
It's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Fine, I'll stop hanging man.
Let's talk a little bit aboutyour, about the manufacturing
process.
How does it, how does that allwork?
And then I know you guys havesome good philosophies about how
did what, what your intent iswhile you're manufacturing.
Share some of that.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Um, bare vaults are are madehere in in the States.
Um, which normally is like areally great thing.
Right now, Um, being being inthe States might not be as as
great of a thing as as sometimesit it seems like, but, um, you
know we're proud that, thatwe're making it with with people
who are are compensated fairlyand, you know, are made right.
(29:01):
You know it's.
They're not made in sweat shops, you know, in in Southeast Asia
or something like that.
So you know we're proud thateverything happens here in the
States.
Everything comes to Coloradofrom from a few different spots
in the States and we hand finish, hand inspect and hand pack
everything here in the States,cause we really want to stand by
the canisters that are goingout there.
(29:23):
We know that people are puttinga lot of trust in these
products to do it right, and sowe want to make sure we're
putting our best foot forwardand providing something that
people can really trust.
So the plastic molding happensin the US.
We come here and do some finalpost-processing on it to get it
all ready and then we're sendingit out.
(29:46):
You know we work with a lot ofdifferent retailers here, both
in the States and in Canada.
You know we're in, we're inMeck, you know, and a few of the
other smaller retailersthroughout some of the provinces
especially.
You know I'd say we're mostpopular in BC and Alberta and,
you know, becoming more popularin the paddling communities in
(30:08):
Ontario, Quebec, evenSaskatchewan.
So that's how we're getting theproduct out there.
And then, just as a company, wereally are an ethics-first
company.
Yes, the company is technicallya an ethics first company, you
know.
Yes, the company is.
(30:29):
You know it's technically afor-profit structured company,
but if you were to look at ourday-to-day operations and how we
work, it might really look morelike like a nonprofit in a lot
of ways.
You know our mission is to keepbears healthy and keep
ecosystems thriving and you knowselling canisters is is less
important to us than seeingbears that are.
And you know selling canistersis less important to us than
seeing bears that are thriving,you know.
(30:49):
You know seeing people that aregoing out and having, you know,
adventures in the backcountrywhere you know they see a bear
and it's the best part of theirtrip because it was a healthy
interaction and not the worstpart of their experience because
the bear was aggressive andlacked that fear and maybe tore
apart their tent or evensomething worse.
There's plenty of horrorstories out there online of
(31:13):
things that go wrong with bears,and when we see people having
safe, fun, joyful excursionsinto the back country and
healthy bears, that's, that's awin in our book.
So we're really aligned with alot of the nonprofit
organizations, especially downhere in the States.
We've got um, like the longtrails, like the Pacific crest
(31:34):
trail, the Appalachian trail,the Connell divide trail, um,
we're big partners with them.
Along with Leave no TraceCenter for Outdoor Ethics is
actually headquartered just upthe street from us here in
Boulder, colorado, and so wework really closely with them
and a lot of you know we go backand forth on research and our,
(31:56):
like safety messaging has beenhand in hand with the team out
there, and so we work reallyhard, not just to, you know,
collaborate those organizations,but we try to educate the
people who purchase our productsto to go out and use them Right
, cause you also can use ittotally wrong.
You know we hear these storiesabout people will say, oh my
(32:16):
gosh, a bear got into my bearvault.
We'll say, oh my gosh, well,what happened, how'd that happen
?
And say, oh well, I didn't putthe lid on it and we'll say,
well, that's, that's a feedingtrough.
You know that's not a bearcanister.
You know, and, and so we, wereally try to, you know,
encourage people to understandnot just how to use it but also
(32:37):
why they're using it, and thatyou know their choices really
matter.
You know it's like a bearaccesses food even once, and
that that bear's life is iscompletely changed.
You know, you remember, I don'tknow, maybe 30 years ago it was
like you know drugs, not evenonce.
You know it was like the, likethe, the catchphrase you know
(32:57):
for kids, and it's kind of thesame thing with bears.
It's like human food, not evenonce.
You know for for a bear.
And you know people who aregoing out there have a real
responsibility to, to take careof that ecosystem and uh, and
also tell their friends you know, um, and I think people need to
know, like especially down herein the States, where it's a
(33:20):
legal requirement, that you knownot just that that it's
required to carry a canister,but also why they're doing it
and that there's a real purposebehind it rather than just a
bureaucratic policy.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, because bureaucrats get it wrong all the
time.
Yeah, they really do.
If it makes sense for otherreasons, absolutely dive in on
that, all right.
So you mentioned Mecca up hereand some smaller uh uh, I assume
outfitters or something alongthose lines, or smaller
retailers.
Where are some of the placesthat get carried in the states?
(33:51):
Our listeners are largely northamerican, worldwide, but, but
mostly and and it's not quite 5050 canada and the us, but but
lots of them will want to knowwhere they can buy them
tariff-free.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Totally, yeah, yeah, no kidding.
So they're in REI here down inthe States.
It's probably our biggestretailer, but we also sell a lot
through our website, and so weship direct-to-consumer, and so
you know we ship direct toconsumer.
We also have a warehouse justsouth of you guys in Ancaster,
(34:29):
Hamilton area in Ontario, andthat's a great way.
We have inventory up therebefore all of this tariff
madness, and so our pricing is.
You know we'll see what happensin time and there's still you's
still long ways to go.
Right now through our website,it's probably the best price you
can find out there in Canadashipping from our warehouse in
Ancaster.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
All right.
Note to self, I've been toyingwith the idea of getting one or
two A lot of the times.
I backcountry with our eldestand he's six foot two and this
big around, but he eats aboutdouble what I do.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah, no, I'm sure he eats like a you know that
metabolism right, it's crazy,man, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
So Ancaster, oh, somewhat off topic but Ancaster.
So I know you did the TorontoOutdoor Adventure Show.
Have you heard about theHamilton Adventure Expo?
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Adventure Expo.
Yes, yes, I heard.
Have you heard about theHamilton?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
adventure expo.
Adventure expo yes.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yes, I heard great things.
I heard that every like, bothfrom a perspective of people who
attended and the peopleexhibited, that it was a total
blast.
So we've been in touch with thefolks that um that put it on.
I'm not sure if it's in thecards for us or not to make it
out next year.
Um, it's.
It's always tricky to figureout where we can go, especially
as Bare Vault's a really smallteam.
We're a family run company andso whenever we come out to a
(35:47):
show it means we're probably notsomewhere else.
So it's always a tough choice,but I've heard really good
things about that show.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Okay, cool, yeah I just.
If you've got a warehouse inAncaster, that's where the show
is, that's perfect and it wasawesome.
It will totally be your targetaudience, for sure.
That's where the show is, sothat's perfect and it was
awesome.
It will totally, totally beyour, your target audience, for
sure.
That's super cool.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
I guess, just the.
The one other thing that Iwould, I would leave you guys
with, you know, is just, um, youknow, for you guys and for your
listeners, you know, I think,when this is all, when, when
people take care of bears, itreally, it really can make a
difference.
You know, there are our casestudies.
So there was this place inColorado.
Um, that, um, the human bearconflict had just had just
(36:29):
gotten out of hand.
Several bears had beeneuthanized and even even still,
um, it just seemed like theconflict was getting worse.
There actually were some reallyscary incidents.
Somebody got drug out of a tent, and these are black bears,
these aren't grizzly bears, Imean just the stuff that's, you
know, that you don't even liketo talk about.
And you know, people, peopleweren't heading out there
(36:53):
because it it seemed, you know,suddenly dangerous and suddenly
bears were not these forestfriends but but rather, you know
, something to be feared, andthat's, that's never what we
want.
And so they implemented one ofthese canister requirements and
a robust education program andin five years the amount of
human-bear conflicts decreased98%.
And what I would just challengepeople to say is well, clearly
(37:17):
the canisters work, but thehuman-bear conflict doesn't have
to reach that much of a crisislevel in the first place.
You don't need those reallyscary encounters or bears
euthanized to start carrying acanister Even when the
government is not telling us,hey, you need to carry this.
We as individuals can makechoices that it might be a
(37:42):
sacrifice.
You know, maybe a canister is alittle bit heavier.
You know we of course have topurchase a canister too and we
recognize that that's a barrierto entry.
But you know when we're goingout into the backcountry we're
going into what's ultimatelythat bear's home.
You know we also can beproactive and preventative of
that human-bear conflict andthat food conditioning from
(38:02):
happening in the first place.
So I would just challenge thelisteners of this podcast to
really think about the choicesyou're making in the backcountry
, whether that's Bear Vault orsome other bear-resistant
product on the market.
I'd encourage you to thinkabout your food storage and also
take some time, take a bearsafety class and think about the
conflicts side of it.
(38:23):
And um, no, you know the thingsto do to prevent um encounters.
You know, beyond just food anduh how to how to prevent um
things from getting scary in theback country too.
So we just just encouragepeople.
It's a great time of year,early in the season, to do your
homework, get educated.
There's great free onlineresources out there and tell
(38:44):
your friends.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
That is yeah.
I love the approach of this isa better thing for the bears.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah, Well, and the importance of that.
It's not just about one bearbecoming a nuisance bear.
It's about the whole ecosystemthat they live in being affected
by it and subsequentgenerations of bears and
subsequent campers that aregoing to camp in the same
campsite.
As you are Like.
You need to think outside ofyour own little individual needs
(39:13):
.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
It's a tough thing these days.
Indeed, indeed.
Well, I just thank you both somuch for the opportunity to come
on the Super Good Campingpodcast, and it's just been so
much fun chatting with you guysthis evening.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Likewise Grant.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Very much so.
Yeah, yeah, I was worried I wasgoing to run out of things to,
but it was like, oh, that'sreally interesting.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
all the fun details bear science and they're amazing
, like I, I, I keep you know,I'm, I'm in the research space
and, you know, learn a lot ofthings, but I mean almost
monthly.
I learned something new aboutabout these creatures and the
way they work and I'm like what?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
No way, you know they're they're just incredible.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, cool, I, I, I.
I've had a few experiences.
All of my experiences have beenkind of like no big deal,
because it's because we've been,they haven't been.
We had one that was in.
No, we had two actually thatwere in front country
campgrounds rooting around infire pits and but yeah, but a
nice, a nice big hey, and awaythey go.
That's so, thankfully, not toohabituated.
But I can't, I can't evenfathom a black bear dragging
(40:27):
somebody out of a tent, likethat's just.
That's beyond anything I wouldever have thought was possible.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Yeah, yeah, so we try not to focus on those sides of
it, but hopefully we can keep itfrom getting there, right?
Speaker 2 (40:38):
yeah, I'm with you, brother.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Uh, okay, we're gonna wrap up all right, that's it
for us for today.
Thank you so much to grantbreidenbach from bear vault for
joining us and sharing all thatinformation, and we'll have to
hear more all about bears someother time, but please do check
them out.
Uh, bear vaultcom is that thewebsite?
Speaker 3 (40:57):
grant, that's the bear vault, perfect.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Perfect, and so check them out.
And, if you're shopping around,educate yourself about bear
resistant food containers andplease do check us out.
We're on all the social mediaand you can email us anytime at
hi at supergoodcampingcom.
That's hi atsupergoodcampingcom, and we will
talk to you again soon.
Bye, bye, awesome.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Oh, that was so much fun.
Hello and good day.
Welcome to the Super GoodCamping podcast.
My name is Pamela.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Tim.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
And we are from supergoodcampingcom.
We're here because we're on amission to inspire other people
to get outside and enjoy campingadventures such as we have as a
family.
Today's guest is the marketingmanager for a very cool product.
We had the pleasure of meetinghim at the Toronto Outdoor
Adventure Show and seeing one ofhis canisters.
That got a bit of a real lifetest out in the field.
Please welcome GrantBreidenbach.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hey, welcome.
Thank you so much for having meon the show.
It's really awesome to get tochat with you guys this
afternoon.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, it was nice to talk to you for a second time.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, I hope you had a great week.
It's been a little pause inbetween the time we met and the
time we're doing the podcastbecause somebody was doing a
honeymoon.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So I hope that was incredible.
Yes, oh, it was.
It was a really, really greattime.
And has any of that snow meltedup in Toronto?
Last time I was up there, itwas buried up to the neck.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
It seemed like this was a.
This was a snowy season for usthis year.
The last two previous to thatwere nothing.
I don't even know if I brokeout the snowblower on one of the
years at all.
Yet we're all good.
They're just starting to do.
I think recently, you know,maybe, maybe the last couple of
weeks.
Uh, they've started to do iceouts up farther north was um
(01:18):
algonquin and stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Okay, won't be long until the canoes are on the lake
.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's awesome canoes are on the lake already.
Okay.
They awesome Canoes are on thelake already, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
They don't wait.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
All right, that's fantastic, our paddling season
is too short for most of thehardcore ones, so they're out
there as soon as they can breakthrough.
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
And you've got a limited amount of time before
the mosquitoes really hatch too,and you've got to kind of
exploit that.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
If we're lucky, we get a couple of weeks.
Yeah, and black flies and allthe good fun things, yeah,
things that I don't enjoy.
Well, and for me it's not a bigissue, I don't get bit that
much.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Pamela, on the other hand, is an absolute magnet for
them that and I get an allergicreaction to the bites.
So I get these big red itchywelts that drive me crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And then she's not very fun to camp with.
Totally fair, Give us a bit ofan origin story for for bear
vaults.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah.
So bear vault came out of theSierra range down in in
California and really it goesback even a little bit before
bear vault, into the 80s and 90sand out in the backcountry.
There you've got black bearsand they were running into a ton
of trouble with bears gettinginto backpackers' foods.
And the bears were getting moreaggressive.
They were just totally losingtheir fear towards humans.
They just weren't acting likebears anymore.
(02:42):
And you know, the unfortunatething is that meant that a lot
of bears were also having to beeuthanized.
And you know, we all know thatbears are such a critical part
of their ecosystem.
And you know, somebody was likewe've got to do something.
You know, like food over thetree is just not working.
These bears have long figuredthat out, dragging it out of the
tree.
You know, chowing down on thesecalories.
(03:04):
We figured that out dragging itout of the tree, you know,
chowing down on these calories.
We need some way to to properlystore food.
And so, um, basically somebodycame along and the first bear
canister was this thick blackABS plastic.
Um and uh it.
You know it was kind of roughbut it got the job done and you
know the bears would check itout, roll it around and it
worked really quickly.
(03:24):
Suddenly, the bears weren'taccessing human food and the
bears were quickly saying, youknow, actually, those berries
that are eating, or you knowwhatever that natural food
source in the season was, thebears were going back to that
food source and the ecosystemwas healing as a result.
And then so in the early 2000s,the folks that started Bear
(03:45):
Vault came along and said youknow, we love the concept, you
know it's doing a really goodjob protecting the bears.
But this original bear canisteris not very user friendly, like
it's very effective for thebears but it's a pain to use for
somebody and it's also a painto haul it around.
You can't fit very much food init.
And so Bare Vault came alongand said what if we made the
(04:10):
sides clear so that you couldsee your food inside?
It made the opening wide sothat you could actually get your
hand in there to find yourSnickers bar, and made the lock
so that you didn't need a toolto open it so you could just
open it with your hands.
So really, you know, buildingoff of the idea of those
previous canisters, but thenBare Vault, you know, really is
(04:33):
the biggest provider of bareresistant food containers on the
market and we get the chance to, you know, work with people all
over to, you know, providecanisters and we've been able to
see not just in the Sierra butin other places.
When canisters start using, theecosystem starts to heal and
the bears become healthy andwe've been able to see that in
(04:53):
so many places.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
And it's just the coolest, coolest thing, and so
it's helping the bears becauseit's what they're getting.
Snickers bars is not good forbears.
It's good for us, not good forus either.
But also, because they'regetting Snickers bars is not
good for bears, good for us, notgood for us either.
But also because they'rebecoming habituated into like
there's human food and I don'tneed to eat.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Exactly so.
Bears, you know, bears is kindof this unnecessarily fancy word
called spatio-temporal memoryand all it really means is that
bears think both in terms ofspace and time.
So that's where they found foodand when they found food, and
that's, you know, how theyevolved and that normally works
really well for them, right?
You know, I found huckleberrieson a particular hillside in a
(05:34):
particular time of year and theygo back to that place again and
again and they teach theiryoung to go back there as well.
Right, and that works reallywell for them.
That's how they are able to getthe calories they need to
hibernate all winter and, youknow, do everything that a happy
, healthy bear does.
But unfortunately, you know, ourhuman food is really the
(05:54):
biggest trap for a bear.
You think about the calories.
We've been talking aboutSnickers bars, or you know
dehydrated food.
You know are ultra processed,refined or even just all in the
same place.
Our human food is supercalorically dense and you know
the time it takes a bear to eata Snickers bar versus, you know,
a patch of berries, or diggingup grubs, or you know tearing
(06:17):
apart a log to find fungusinside or you know whatever that
food source for the season isit's way easier for the bears to
access our human food.
And so once a bear startsgetting in trouble, and so often
we're like, oh, it's a problembear, that bear's in trouble.
But really there's no suchthing as a problem bear.
(06:39):
There's problem, people, thatwe've set the bears up for
failure.
You know, they're just.
They're just doing what they'venaturally evolved to do, and
and doing it really well, youknow, with their incredible
noses, eyes, ears, and so whenwe go into the bear's home, you
know whether that's paddling orwhether that is backpacking or
(06:59):
whatever our wilderness activityis.
You know it's it's.
You know, at Bear Vault.
We see it as that.
We're in the bear's home, youknow, and and it's our
responsibility to be a goodsteward of of that bear's home.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
That's excellent, I think.
I think a lot of previousdiscussion about food in the
back country has been aboutkeeping your food as opposed to
not giving it to bears.
Exactly, you know what I'msaying?
It's a two.
It's two different philosophiesin the grand scheme of things.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
And I think you can have both.
You know and and you knowthere's some people that they
you know I think there's there'sthree reasons.
People get a canister.
You know they're they'rebackpacking somewhere.
That you know, especially downin the States, that there's a
legal requirement and that youknow the park service has, has
(07:51):
basically made the choice foryou and said, hey, you're going
to carry this and you're goingto protect the bears.
Or, like you mentioned,somebody is doing it because
they want that security, theywant trip insurance, they don't
want to go hungry without theirmorning coffee, or they're doing
it because they truly careabout the bears.
And the nice thing is that itdoes it all.
Regardless of what your reasonis, you get all of those
benefits and you don't have topick and choose.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Interesting.
I didn't realize that.
I know that they're speakingfor here in Ontario, I want to
say for Canada, but I'm not ahundred percent sure.
I know there's requirements inspecific areas, and I actually
think boundary waters, which isclose to us.
But on right, um, you have tohang.
That's, that's their, theydon't they, they don't mandate
(08:34):
that you have to have it in a,in a vessel of any type or
anything like that, but you haveto hang.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
so so, yeah, so the boundary waters, canoe area they
were.
We've been really excited aboutwhat, what they've been doing
down there, because for years,you know, they've basically just
said it's a free-for-all.
You can use your food as apillow if you want to, or you
know, whatever you want.
And it's not a great idea.
And you know so much.
You know food conditioninghabituation and you know, and in
(09:07):
places that can be, you knowcultural and how that works and
has evolved.
But they've with time seen thatoh, that doesn't work that well
.
And suddenly these bears aregetting really unhealthy.
People are having, you know,bears that have lost all their
fear of humans.
You know, come through thesepaddling campsites in the middle
of nowhere and you know, andsuddenly they need to do
something differently.
So they've implemented what theForest Service in the States
(09:29):
calls a food storage order andthey can take different shapes
and sizes.
They're written a little bitdifferently from forest to
forest or in the national parks.
This one specifically says thatanytime food is unattended which
also includes if you're doing adouble carry on a portage
anytime that food's unattendedit needs to be hung very well in
(09:50):
a tree or in an IGBC certifiedbear canister.
And that IGBC certification wecan talk a little bit more about
that, but basically it's thisinteragency group of different
biologists and managing agenciesin the states that basically
throw a bear canister in withthese professional grizzly bears
(10:10):
for about an hour and they tryto tear it apart and if they
can't get in, they say all right, your product's good to go.
We give you the seal ofapproval, so in the boundary
waters you can either do aproper hang or use one of these
IGPC approved containers.
But really we're seeing thatmost people are choosing the
IGPC containers because ifthey're double carrying they're
(10:33):
not going to bother to stringeverything up in a tree while
they're taking their canoe andleaving their food, or vice
versa, unless they can leave akid to hang out with the food or
whatnot, To find out the bearthat's coming to get the food,
exactly, yeah, leave, leave thekid to fend off the bear Right.
And then the other thing too.
You know a lot of those trees,even the boundary waters, and
(10:56):
you know as, as you work youryour way North, especially into
Ontario, the trees get smallerand smaller.
You know, and you know in someplaces maybe if you took all the
time in the world to get itright and break out the pulleys,
you could get something that'syou know textbook.
But you know so many placeswith you know coniferous trees,
it's just not really feasible toget a quote unquote textbook
(11:17):
hang.
Or you know, there's like thebranch that's great.
And then you know, after a fewyears of everyone camping there,
you know those tree branchesbasically get sawed off by all
the ropes going over it, and sowe're seeing a lot of people
adopting the canisters in theboundary waters and we're really
excited about it and hope tosee the human-bear conflict
(11:39):
decrease over the next few yearsas a result.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
That's excellent and I'm glad that the agencies are
working with whatever like folkslike yourself that can provide
different solutions.
I know that part of aconversation with Cliff Jacobson
.
He was very unhappy that theywere mandating hanging, he's
(12:03):
like no, that's the stupidestthing in the world.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, there's definitely.
You know.
I think it can be generational.
You know, and even even whenplaces have say permitted uh,
permitted hanging for thelongest time, and they say you
know what they're?
The bears are pulling downthese hangs, you have to use a
canister, you know, theredefinitely are people that say
oh, you know, I've been doing itthis way for 40 years, why
would I do it any different?
But I think what people need torecognize is it's not the same
(12:32):
bears that were there 40 yearsago.
You know there's been morepeople accessing these
backcountry locations, there'sbeen more food exposure for the
bears and they're more foodconditioned than they were 40
years ago.
And you know what what may haveworked, you know.
At that point, you know our,our tools and techniques need to
change.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah Well, in science , science learns and evolves.
I mean that's just that's thenature of it.
So, so yay that that.
You know I I've been hangingthem for forever.
I'm I'm also lazy, I'm not.
I'm not adverse to not havingto hang it Totally, not use it
as a pillow, but not have it.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
There's options, right so.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Grant, tell us about how exactly they can't get this
open.
What keeps them from getting itopen?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, it's really cool.
So basically it is sizedspecifically around a bear's jaw
and while it's this reallytough, thick, rugged plastic
it's, it's really.
You know, if a bear could gethis jaw around it it would.
It would crush right through it.
But the beauty is a jaw a bearcan't get his jaw around it.
It's.
It's built with these slipperysides and these rounded corners
(13:43):
so the bear just can't get agrip.
It just slips right off.
And so the bear will come up toit, check it out, have a little
soccer match with it, bat itback and forth.
It maybe moves around a fewsquare meters, but as long as
you don't have it next to aravine or a rushing rapid, it's
not going to really go anywhere.
(14:04):
And the bear basically realizesreally quickly that it's not
getting any food reward from thecanister.
It just can't get a grip, it'sslipping off.
It's using its preciouscalories and energy trying to
tear it open.
And when that doesn't work, thebear really quickly says, hmm,
those berries up on the hillsideweren't so bad After all.
(14:25):
I think I'm going to go messwith those instead of trying to
tear open this canister andexpend all of my precious energy
.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
So clear and unbreakable.
I'm assuming some kind ofpolycarbonate.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Exactly, yep, that's exactly what it's made out of.
It's a specialty blend, but youcan think of it similar to the
stuff out of bulletproof glass.
Exactly, yep, that's, that'sexactly what it's what it's made
out of.
It's a it's a specialty blend,but, you know, you can think of
it similar to like the stuff outof out of bulletproof glass.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Exactly, yep, yep, cool, and by specialty blend do
we have?
Does it?
Does it contribute to biggerweight, less?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
weight Of course you know we all wish it weighed.
Nothing you know, but.
But you know you could makesomething that is indestructible
and weighs, you know, agazillion pounds.
And we've, we've, worked reallyhard over the years to like,
find that careful balance ofstrong enough to you know, even,
even you know big grizzly bearsin in the West that you know
(15:20):
love to do like a pumping motionon it, but also younger,
juvenile black bears out eastthat have really sharp teeth and
can gnaw almost like a rodentand have these just razor sharp
teeth.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
And so we've worked really hard to find the
intersection of exactly howtough to make it but also as
light as possible so that you'renot cursing it while hauling it
across the portage or down thetrail well, I know that the the
the one that we saw when at theshow with you was surprised me
when I picked it up at how lightit was, because I expected it
(15:54):
to be much heavier than it thanit is.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
It also surprised me that the gouge is in it, and
yeah how did he not break intoit like oh, it's amazing yeah,
yeah, if, if you go to ourwebsite, we have some really fun
footage where you can see bearschewing on it and you can
really see how they approach itand different bears try
different tactics and techniques, you know, and they're just,
(16:17):
you know, they're naturallycurious animals.
So, like grizzly bears, you know, they're a little bit more kind
of brute force.
They'll walk right up to it,give it a little sniff and then,
you know, just immediately kindof basically doing like CPR on
it.
You know you can almost imaginelike staying alive by the Bee
Gees, you know, playing like ah,ah, ah, you know.
(16:39):
And then meanwhile the blackbears, they're like a little
more thoughtful.
They'll walk up to it kind ofgingerly, touch it, roll around,
they'll almost tap on it andlike listen to it, and then
they'll, they'll kind of mouthit and they'll try to find just
what they think might be thesoftest, weakest part.
Um, often that's why you'll seethem focus on the lid or around
the locking mechanism and try.
(17:00):
They're not gonna get in, butthey, they try their best there
and they're very strategic andit's just amazing to watch them
think through it and how theyapproach it until they
inevitably give up.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
We like the inevitability.
Yes, I'm still in a bit of amindset of I'm four days in and
if they take it, I don't haveenough food to get out.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Exactly, yeah, and that's really the big advantage
of a canister over like asoft-sided bag, because there
are some like IGBC approvedsoft-sided bags out there.
But the big downside there isthat you know your food turns
into a pulp, you know, insidethe bag, and like the sunscreen
is mixed into the oatmeal andthe oatmeal is mixed into the
(17:45):
camping fuel and you know it'scompletely inedible.
Where, with the bear vault, um,after you know, after you, you
know, get it back from the bear,you might have to wipe off some
, some saliva.
Or we've even seen bears thatwhen they're they're done and
tired, they drop a big pile ofscat on it because they're just
so, so frustrated, hired theydrop a big pile of scat on it
because they're just so, sofrustrated.
(18:06):
Exactly.
But you know, once you get thatcleaned off, you know your
food's, your food's good to goand your morning coffee will be
waiting for you.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
As soon as you started to say that that's what
I pictured, I thought no, hecan't be going there?
Oh he is.
Yeah, exactly, that's awesome.
So just thinking about sizesyou're talking about like an
opening that's big enough to getyour mid in there and pull
stuff back out.
Do they come in differentvolume sizes?
(18:37):
I would take a small one if Iwas doing a three-day weekend,
as opposed to I don't know.
Take a bigger one two and ahalf three gallons probably, if
I was doing a three day weekend,as opposed to, I don't know.
Take a.
Take a bigger one, two and ahalf three gallons probably, if
I was doing a seven or eight dayExactly.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Yeah, so we have four sizes.
Um, we call it like the sprint,jaunt, track and journey.
Um, you know, and it's, it'sone of those things where your
mileage may vary, especiallylike among the paddling
community.
You know, like, generally, likeit's pretty well said that
paddlers like to eat.
Well, you know, in the backcountry, and so you know, we
like to say the smallest one isone to two nights, the next
(19:13):
one's three to four, five to sixand seven up.
You know, we've had folks comeup and say, you know, oh my gosh
, here's your biggest canister.
I could barely get, you know, anight or two of food in there.
I, you know, I eat like a King.
Um, and other people you knowcome up to the exact same
canister and say, oh my gosh,you know, I freeze, dry
everything and pack it downsuper small and I, you know, I
(19:34):
don't eat that much and I canget two weeks in that.
So it, it's very much one ofthose your mileage may vary.
Um, you know, type situations.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, no, well, I mean, I could see that.
Uh, typically for for us, wetake, you know, maybe the first
day and a half or two days offresh food, so that takes up a
ton more space.
Oh, absolutely yeah.
And then the remainder isdehydrated, so so maybe I'm,
maybe I'm a bucket and a halfkind of a.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
we'll have to see.
Yeah, the fresh is great,though, you know, especially
when it's not blazing summer andit, you know, lasts just a
little bit longer.
It it's really.
It's worth it to have havethose good foods.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Absolutely.
Steaks on the, on the, on thegrill, or you know, real eggs in
the morning and real bacon inthe morning.
Yeah, that, that works for mefor sure.
Uh, how do you?
How do you pack them like?
Do you do it?
Because when we do, what arethey?
Poly polyurethane barrels?
The blue barrels?
yeah well, ours is red, but yes,okay um, they, they all come
(20:38):
with big, big harnesses andstuff.
Because you're carrying a tonof stuff in.
We tend to do one yep of doinglike, if you're talking about
one person, you know, say, sayseven-ish, whatever, seven-ish
days, that hits me if, if you're, if, so you're, if you're
tandem, you've got two of thoseright, whereas we tend to work
(20:58):
with one barrel.
For how many ever people aregoing and you just do smaller
barrels and stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
So there are a lot of different strategies.
Um, and I think you know people, people need to kind of figure
out what works best for for them, you know.
So when we talk aboutbackpacking, aside from paddling
, you know we're telling peoplepack it inside your backpack.
Um, you know, you think yourfood's heavy.
Your food's the heaviest thing,you know, for people who are
backpacking they don't have, youknow, for people who are
backpacking they don't have, youknow, a big kevlar canoe or an
(21:24):
aluminum canoe, you know yourfood's going to be the heaviest
item that you have and so thatonce you want to put that
relatively low and close to yourback, so ideally you're going
to put the canister in and turnit sideways in in the pack.
Um, when it comes to paddling,you know folks aren't
necessarily carrying a?
Um, you know a backpackingbackpack.
(21:47):
Some people, you know, usethose to carry items.
But you know you might havedifferent portage packs or, like
you said, you know, canoebarrels with harnesses.
So we've seen a lot of differentstyles and approaches, all of
which have their merits.
I've seen, I think a lot of ushave heard of Camper Christina.
She has this little day pack.
I think she even calls it herbear vault purse and she
(22:09):
basically just tucks thatcanister and it's pretty much
the only thing in that littleday pack and while she has her
canoe on her shoulders and she'sdouble carrying, that little
backpack with just the canistergoes along with her while she
takes the canoe.
We've seen a few companies thatactually make specific portage
(22:31):
packs that are exactly sized tofit the BV500, our largest BV500
Journey canister.
That can work really well.
They also can sit within thoseblue barrels.
You can put a canister rightwithin the blue barrel.
Or, last but not least, theyfit great anywhere within a
(22:53):
larger portage pack.
But generally speaking, becauseit's slippery and hard to get a
grip on for the bear, it can bea little slippery and hard for
us to get a grip on too.
So it's best to pack it in inanother backpack.
Just the important tip is thatyou know, say you're double
carrying and you bring, you know, the canister to to the other
(23:14):
spot where you're going to putyour canoe in, and you set it
down um, take the can out of thepack.
We've heard so many stories ofpeople that set their backpacks
down with all the food insideand then the backpack gets a
drug off to who knows where, andthere goes not just your food,
but also, you know, your tent,you know your fire equipment,
like everything you need to, youknow, survive and thrive in the
(23:37):
back country by.
So so you know, taking, takingthat canister out is a really
good rule of thumb.
Brilliant, yeah, hadn't hadn'tthought taking that canister out
is a really good rule of thumb,brilliant.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, hadn't thought about that.
That would suck, becausebackpacks aren't cheap.
Yeah, your barrel's gone, oryour canister's gone.
Your food's gone, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
So.
But despite the toughness ofthe bear vault they can still
smell through that, that theycan get a scent of the food.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Exactly.
Yeah, bear's noses areabsolutely incredible.
So my favorite way to visualizeit is if we were to take the
surface area inside of one ofour noses and you were to, like,
basically lay it out flat.
The surface area inside ournose is about the size of a
postage stamp.
If you took a bloodhound dogyou know, known for incredible
(24:27):
scent of smell, tracking allthese things and took all of its
scent receptors and laid it outflat, you'd have about a sheet
of printer paper.
Now if you took a black bear,you think about that big, long
nose that's actually hollowinside, with all these internal
chambers called turbinates, andif you laid it out flat, how,
(24:48):
how much would you guys think?
How, how, how big do you thinkit would be?
Four by eight sheet of plywood,okay, four by eight sheet of
plywood.
What do you think, pamela?
yeah, no, I'm gonna go aroundthere yeah, yeah, that's good,
it's a little small.
It'd be about four sheets ofprinter paper, so about four,
four times the bloodhound dogsand substantially more than our
(25:09):
little postage stamp.
Um, I think that just kind ofhelps visualize how incredible
their noses are.
So, with that in mind, we don'teven try to make it scent proof
and, and you know, there'sproducts out there that are
advertised, as you know,scent-proof liner, scent-proof
this, that, and they don'treally work.
(25:29):
I mean, they can substantiallyreduce the scent transmission,
you know.
But even you know the residueon your hands.
You know if you eat, you knowfood, you know you have granola
and then you touch that bearcanister, guess what?
There's food residue on there.
So it's more about you knowoutsmarting the bear's ability
to get in rather than you knowoutwitting their ability of of
(25:55):
smell.
I think a lot of another commonmisconception people think is
they're like okay, we know bearshave really good noses, but
they must be blind, bears mustnot have good eyesight, and so
we'll see people where they'relike oh yeah, it's really sealed
, or it's in one of thosefreeze-dried food packages, and
well, there's no way the bear'sgoing to smell that.
(26:16):
So I'm just going to set it outand the bear's not going to see
it.
Guess what?
The bear knows where thatcampsite is.
Like you know, your chances areyou're not camping in such a
remote place that nobody's evercamped there before.
The bear knows that people campthere, right?
Remember, we're talking aboutspatio-temporal memory.
The bear, good chance.
The bear has found food in thatplace before, and then maybe
(26:43):
there's food that's been sealedup.
But guess what?
The bear can still see it.
It sees that it looks like food.
Bears have an excellent senseof eyesight as well.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Note to self yes, my understanding is the whole hang.
The change in some of thethinking about hanging is
because bears have have learned,and or been taught by mom, to
figure, to see ropes and disablethe rope in order to get the
hang to come down, as opposed toclimb the tree and go out on
(27:16):
this skinny little branch andhave the whole thing break.
All that sort of jazz, Yep.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
I mean, we see every flavor of it, right, we see them
.
We see them chew through theropes.
I've got this whole file on mycomputer of, just like the
videos and the photos.
It's.
It's honestly fun to to look at.
But, you know, chew the ropes,um, send a cub, or even, you
know, mom will go out on thebranch and then, you know, just
break the entire branch off,which you know we've heard
stories of bears getting injureddoing that.
(27:40):
They're so focused on the foodthat they neglect their own
safety.
And then suddenly you've got aterribly injured bear in the
backcountry, or you've got thesebears that are total acrobats
and they will literally shimmyout on the line.
There's this incredible photoof this.
It's actually a bird feeder ona steel cable but the bear is
(28:01):
just shimmying out the line.
You know, probably, I don'tknow 15, 20 meters down the line
, um, and then, just you know,at one point it just hangs on by
its mouth on the line and thenit gets back on the line and
then tears the bird feeder downand it's, it's.
It's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Fine, I'll stop hanging man.
Let's talk a little bit aboutyour, about the manufacturing
process.
How does it, how does that allwork?
And then I know you guys havesome good philosophies about how
did what, what your intent iswhile you're manufacturing.
Share some of that.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Um, bare vaults are are madehere in in the States.
Um, which normally is like areally great thing.
Right now, Um, being being inthe States might not be as as
great of a thing as as sometimesit it seems like, but, um, you
know we're proud that, thatwe're making it with with people
who are are compensated fairlyand, you know, are made right.
(29:01):
You know it's.
They're not made in sweat shops, you know, in in Southeast Asia
or something like that.
So you know we're proud thateverything happens here in the
States.
Everything comes to Coloradofrom from a few different spots
in the States and we hand finish, hand inspect and hand pack
everything here in the States,cause we really want to stand by
the canisters that are goingout there.
(29:23):
We know that people are puttinga lot of trust in these
products to do it right, and sowe want to make sure we're
putting our best foot forwardand providing something that
people can really trust.
So the plastic molding happensin the US.
We come here and do some finalpost-processing on it to get it
all ready and then we're sendingit out.
(29:46):
You know we work with a lot ofdifferent retailers here, both
in the States and in Canada.
You know we're in, we're inMeck, you know, and a few of the
other smaller retailersthroughout some of the provinces
especially.
You know I'd say we're mostpopular in BC and Alberta and,
you know, becoming more popularin the paddling communities in
(30:08):
Ontario, Quebec, evenSaskatchewan.
So that's how we're getting theproduct out there.
And then, just as a company, wereally are an ethics-first
company.
Yes, the company is technicallya an ethics first company, you
know.
Yes, the company is.
(30:29):
You know it's technically afor-profit structured company,
but if you were to look at ourday-to-day operations and how we
work, it might really look morelike like a nonprofit in a lot
of ways.
You know our mission is to keepbears healthy and keep
ecosystems thriving and you knowselling canisters is is less
important to us than seeingbears that are.
And you know selling canistersis less important to us than
seeing bears that are thriving,you know.
(30:49):
You know seeing people that aregoing out and having, you know,
adventures in the backcountrywhere you know they see a bear
and it's the best part of theirtrip because it was a healthy
interaction and not the worstpart of their experience because
the bear was aggressive andlacked that fear and maybe tore
apart their tent or evensomething worse.
There's plenty of horrorstories out there online of
(31:13):
things that go wrong with bears,and when we see people having
safe, fun, joyful excursionsinto the back country and
healthy bears, that's, that's awin in our book.
So we're really aligned with alot of the nonprofit
organizations, especially downhere in the States.
We've got um, like the longtrails, like the Pacific crest
(31:34):
trail, the Appalachian trail,the Connell divide trail, um,
we're big partners with them.
Along with Leave no TraceCenter for Outdoor Ethics is
actually headquartered just upthe street from us here in
Boulder, colorado, and so wework really closely with them
and a lot of you know we go backand forth on research and our,
(31:56):
like safety messaging has beenhand in hand with the team out
there, and so we work reallyhard, not just to, you know,
collaborate those organizations,but we try to educate the
people who purchase our productsto to go out and use them Right
, cause you also can use ittotally wrong.
You know we hear these storiesabout people will say, oh my
(32:16):
gosh, a bear got into my bearvault.
We'll say, oh my gosh, well,what happened, how'd that happen
?
And say, oh well, I didn't putthe lid on it and we'll say,
well, that's, that's a feedingtrough.
You know that's not a bearcanister.
You know, and, and so we, wereally try to, you know,
encourage people to understandnot just how to use it but also
(32:37):
why they're using it, and thatyou know their choices really
matter.
You know it's like a bearaccesses food even once, and
that that bear's life is iscompletely changed.
You know, you remember, I don'tknow, maybe 30 years ago it was
like you know drugs, not evenonce.
You know it was like the, likethe, the catchphrase you know
(32:57):
for kids, and it's kind of thesame thing with bears.
It's like human food, not evenonce.
You know for for a bear.
And you know people who aregoing out there have a real
responsibility to, to take careof that ecosystem and uh, and
also tell their friends you know, um, and I think people need to
know, like especially down herein the States, where it's a
(33:20):
legal requirement, that you knownot just that that it's
required to carry a canister,but also why they're doing it
and that there's a real purposebehind it rather than just a
bureaucratic policy.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, because bureaucrats get it wrong all the
time.
Yeah, they really do.
If it makes sense for otherreasons, absolutely dive in on
that, all right.
So you mentioned Mecca up hereand some smaller uh uh, I assume
outfitters or something alongthose lines, or smaller
retailers.
Where are some of the placesthat get carried in the states?
(33:51):
Our listeners are largely northamerican, worldwide, but, but
mostly and and it's not quite 5050 canada and the us, but but
lots of them will want to knowwhere they can buy them
tariff-free.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Totally, yeah, yeah, no kidding.
So they're in REI here down inthe States.
It's probably our biggestretailer, but we also sell a lot
through our website, and so weship direct-to-consumer, and so
you know we ship direct toconsumer.
We also have a warehouse justsouth of you guys in Ancaster,
(34:29):
Hamilton area in Ontario, andthat's a great way.
We have inventory up therebefore all of this tariff
madness, and so our pricing is.
You know we'll see what happensin time and there's still you's
still long ways to go.
Right now through our website,it's probably the best price you
can find out there in Canadashipping from our warehouse in
Ancaster.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
All right.
Note to self, I've been toyingwith the idea of getting one or
two A lot of the times.
I backcountry with our eldestand he's six foot two and this
big around, but he eats aboutdouble what I do.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah, no, I'm sure he eats like a you know that
metabolism right, it's crazy,man, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
So Ancaster, oh, somewhat off topic but Ancaster.
So I know you did the TorontoOutdoor Adventure Show.
Have you heard about theHamilton Adventure Expo?
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Adventure Expo.
Yes, yes, I heard.
Have you heard about theHamilton?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
adventure expo.
Adventure expo yes.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yes, I heard great things.
I heard that every like, bothfrom a perspective of people who
attended and the peopleexhibited, that it was a total
blast.
So we've been in touch with thefolks that um that put it on.
I'm not sure if it's in thecards for us or not to make it
out next year.
Um, it's.
It's always tricky to figureout where we can go, especially
as Bare Vault's a really smallteam.
We're a family run company andso whenever we come out to a
(35:47):
show it means we're probably notsomewhere else.
So it's always a tough choice,but I've heard really good
things about that show.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Okay, cool, yeah I just.
If you've got a warehouse inAncaster, that's where the show
is, that's perfect and it wasawesome.
It will totally be your targetaudience, for sure.
That's where the show is, sothat's perfect and it was
awesome.
It will totally, totally beyour, your target audience, for
sure.
That's super cool.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
I guess, just the.
The one other thing that Iwould, I would leave you guys
with, you know, is just, um, youknow, for you guys and for your
listeners, you know, I think,when this is all, when, when
people take care of bears, itreally, it really can make a
difference.
You know, there are our casestudies.
So there was this place inColorado.
Um, that, um, the human bearconflict had just had just
(36:29):
gotten out of hand.
Several bears had beeneuthanized and even even still,
um, it just seemed like theconflict was getting worse.
There actually were some reallyscary incidents.
Somebody got drug out of a tent, and these are black bears,
these aren't grizzly bears, Imean just the stuff that's, you
know, that you don't even liketo talk about.
And you know, people, peopleweren't heading out there
(36:53):
because it it seemed, you know,suddenly dangerous and suddenly
bears were not these forestfriends but but rather, you know
, something to be feared, andthat's, that's never what we
want.
And so they implemented one ofthese canister requirements and
a robust education program andin five years the amount of
human-bear conflicts decreased98%.
And what I would just challengepeople to say is well, clearly
(37:17):
the canisters work, but thehuman-bear conflict doesn't have
to reach that much of a crisislevel in the first place.
You don't need those reallyscary encounters or bears
euthanized to start carrying acanister Even when the
government is not telling us,hey, you need to carry this.
We as individuals can makechoices that it might be a
(37:42):
sacrifice.
You know, maybe a canister is alittle bit heavier.
You know we of course have topurchase a canister too and we
recognize that that's a barrierto entry.
But you know when we're goingout into the backcountry we're
going into what's ultimatelythat bear's home.
You know we also can beproactive and preventative of
that human-bear conflict andthat food conditioning from
(38:02):
happening in the first place.
So I would just challenge thelisteners of this podcast to
really think about the choicesyou're making in the backcountry
, whether that's Bear Vault orsome other bear-resistant
product on the market.
I'd encourage you to thinkabout your food storage and also
take some time, take a bearsafety class and think about the
conflicts side of it.
(38:23):
And um, no, you know the thingsto do to prevent um encounters.
You know, beyond just food anduh how to how to prevent um
things from getting scary in theback country too.
So we just just encouragepeople.
It's a great time of year,early in the season, to do your
homework, get educated.
There's great free onlineresources out there and tell
(38:44):
your friends.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
That is yeah.
I love the approach of this isa better thing for the bears.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah, Well, and the importance of that.
It's not just about one bearbecoming a nuisance bear.
It's about the whole ecosystemthat they live in being affected
by it and subsequentgenerations of bears and
subsequent campers that aregoing to camp in the same
campsite.
As you are Like.
You need to think outside ofyour own little individual needs
(39:13):
.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
It's a tough thing these days.
Indeed, indeed.
Well, I just thank you both somuch for the opportunity to come
on the Super Good Campingpodcast, and it's just been so
much fun chatting with you guysthis evening.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Likewise Grant.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Very much so.
Yeah, yeah, I was worried I wasgoing to run out of things to,
but it was like, oh, that'sreally interesting.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
all the fun details bear science and they're amazing
, like I, I, I keep you know,I'm, I'm in the research space
and, you know, learn a lot ofthings, but I mean almost
monthly.
I learned something new aboutabout these creatures and the
way they work and I'm like what?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
No way, you know they're they're just incredible.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, cool, I, I, I.
I've had a few experiences.
All of my experiences have beenkind of like no big deal,
because it's because we've been,they haven't been.
We had one that was in.
No, we had two actually thatwere in front country
campgrounds rooting around infire pits and but yeah, but a
nice, a nice big hey, and awaythey go.
That's so, thankfully, not toohabituated.
But I can't, I can't evenfathom a black bear dragging
(40:27):
somebody out of a tent, likethat's just.
That's beyond anything I wouldever have thought was possible.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Yeah, yeah, so we try not to focus on those sides of
it, but hopefully we can keep itfrom getting there, right?
Speaker 2 (40:38):
yeah, I'm with you, brother.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Uh, okay, we're gonna wrap up all right, that's it
for us for today.
Thank you so much to grantbreidenbach from bear vault for
joining us and sharing all thatinformation, and we'll have to
hear more all about bears someother time, but please do check
them out.
Uh, bear vaultcom is that thewebsite?
Speaker 3 (40:57):
grant, that's the bear vault, perfect.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Perfect, and so check them out.
And, if you're shopping around,educate yourself about bear
resistant food containers andplease do check us out.
We're on all the social mediaand you can email us anytime at
hi at supergoodcampingcom.
That's hi atsupergoodcampingcom, and we will
talk to you again soon.
Bye, bye, awesome.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Oh, that was so much fun.
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