August 20, 2023 • 33 mins
Are you ready to hear from a comic book enthusiast who's been on the front lines of conventions and cosplay? Our intriguing guest peels back the pages of her life-long love for comics, anime, and cosplay - a journey that started with her family's history of collecting comic books. She unravels her personal experiences at conventions and grappling with race-bending characters, emphasizing the importance of respectful representation for characters of color.
We also crack open the sometimes murky world of representation for black people in the realms of comics and anime. We analyze the characters of Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, Starfire, and Naomi, asking the hard-hitting question - are they truly advancing the industry or merely ticking boxes? We don't shy away from discussing the lack of sustainability for characters of color and the potential for change through upcoming titles featuring black and indigenous characters. Tune in as we also explore how the power of social media can be harnessed to educate about the rich history of black characters in comics. Get ready to embark on a deep exploration of the world of comics and anime!
“The world isn’t perfect. But it’s there for us, doing the best it can… that’s what makes it so damn beautiful.” — Roy Mustang (Full Metal Alchemist)
Follow Christina on TikTok @drkaori
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
One Well.
Good afternoon everyone andwelcome to the latest episode of
superhero politics.
We have a very special guestwith us today.
As always, I don't try to takeover that.
I turn it over to our guestsand let them introduce
themselves and tell them, tellyou guys about who they are and
(00:23):
the interest and we're going toget into the questions here in a
minute, so I will introduce ourguests.
We met on tick tock her channel.
Please forgive me forbutchering this doctor.
I'm going to turn it over toyou and tell them a little bit
(00:59):
about yourself and your historyand comic books and anime.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi, I'm a worry.
I literally just came up withthat name because my favorite
villain from Sailor Moon is away from the sailors Saturn
thing that was going on.
I started reading comic bookswhen I was like really little,
(01:29):
like third grade ish, which isactually the same time that my
dad started reading comics.
And my dad's been collectingcomic books since the 60s and
I've read pretty much all ofthem.
We've got about 6000 comics inour garage and the only reason I
know that is because I used toorganize them all and I would
(01:50):
catalog everything to go inwhich boxes, what series was it?
How many is in that series?
And I just like tally them upand be like, oh, we have like
6000 conflicts.
Now my dad's like why?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So what?
What region of the country areyou?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
in.
I'm currently in Nevada.
I live in Vegas.
We I was born in Los Angeles,raised in Tennessee and then we
moved to Las Vegas a coupleyears ago.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So obviously, you know, the West Coast has a has a
very rich history of comics andand I think you know, with
movie production and a lot ofthings is happening out there.
San Diego Comic Con is one ofthe biggest ones of the cons.
Have you in your family evergotten into the cons or
(02:44):
participating in the cons?
I know you're a huge cosplayer.
You have, you know, some someincredible cosplay on your site
and so have you guys ever gotteninto the cons and what was that
like, the experience like foryou?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Um, I've never been to like a big one.
I will be going to like myfirst big one this year, so
it'll be Dragon Con in Atlanta.
I'm going to that one.
It's my first time going tolike a big one.
I've been wanting to go to SanDiego Comic Con.
I had tickets to go to SanDiego Comic Con and we lost my
grandmother and we were planningthe funeral and I told them you
(03:22):
know, as long as the funeral isbefore this date or after this
date, we're good.
And they put it on that dateand I was like, now, why would
you do that?
So I had to cancel my tickets,only for them to move the dates
to two months prior.
And they're like, well, youwere going to the thing and I
was like, well, I sold thetickets.
(03:43):
They got the tickets back now,so you know, but we're going,
I'm doing that.
My first con was in Chattanooga.
It was kind of it was like conNougat, it was kind of small
because Chattanooga is reallynot that big.
It was fun though.
It was a really fun experience.
One of my friends who's areally big cosplayer came down
there and it was fun to bearound and see people who I've
(04:08):
never thought cosplay beforecosplay.
We got to sit in there on somepanels.
There was a Disney panel we satin on.
That was really cool.
We watched some people do somevideo games, but overall, like
the experience of the con wasreally cool.
I did have kind of like aslight issue before when I did
(04:29):
Typhoid Mary from Marvel and itwas just like, well, isn't she
white?
And I was like she is, but nottoday.
So I've gone through like a lotof my friends who are really
great cosplayers and we get thesame thing that character isn't
(04:51):
black and I'm like, well, youknow what they are today.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, and so that's one of the things that we always
want to address is, like youknow there's and you do a
fantastic job, folks.
If you guys follow KOARY onTikTok, you will see that she
does an amazing job of findingand cataloging heroes of color,
(05:20):
like heroes and villains ofcolor Every time, like it's so
many that comes out.
I like them because it remindsme of representation and stuff
that we don't really speak ofbecause it's not so prominent,
and so when you do race bend acharacter, you get that pushback
simply because black charactersor characters of color haven't
(05:43):
been that prevalent in comics orin really less so in anime.
So you know, when you guys goout, is it really, is it a lot
of pushback, or do you guys justhear people kind of under their
breath challenging you guys onthe fact that you raised bent a
character?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
A lot of the times it's kind of in the background
because you know some peoplewill be like oh my God, I
recognize that character, youdid a really good job.
And then, like somebody else inthat group, they'd like you
know I thought that characterwas different race and you know
they'll either tell them well,you can do whatever you want to
like, as long as you're not,like you know, black-facing a
(06:23):
character.
I think that's where somepeople get confused because,
like people there are women wholove Storm, who are not black,
and they feel like becausethey're not black, they can't
cosplay.
Of course you can, as long asyou have the hair, the eyes, the
outfit.
We know who you are.
It's really not that big deal.
But, like you know, if youdecide that you're going to
(06:46):
paint your face brown for somereason, you don't have to do
that, just like you don't haveto like shape your eyes to be a
Japanese character that you sawin an anime.
Like you don't have to do anyof that, and so it's always like
it's not really upfront untilyou get online, but like when
they're in your face they don'twant the physical consequences
(07:11):
of what they say.
So they'll be like oh my God, Ilove that.
That is really cool.
And then they'll get back lateron on some anonymous page and
be like oh my God, I can'tbelieve she did that.
That character's not black, soit kind of depends on, like, how
bold they want to be.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Because we were just at Galaxy Con in Raleigh here in
North Carolina and I sawseveral different iterations of
Starfire.
Now we've got the Anna JopStarfire from Titans and people
went nuts about that.
But I saw white Starfires and Isaw Black Starfires and I saw
folks who literally did theorange you know Teen Titans,
(07:53):
body paint, starfire, and soit's really.
There are really no rules aslong as I don't think you're
disrespectful to the character.
And so I think sometimes youknow, if there's a black
character that white people wantto portray, they feel like they
have to do the physicalembodiment of it and not the
spirit of the character.
(08:14):
And I think this is where weget into these consequences and
we get into these conflicts it'sbecause you don't feel like you
can represent the characterwithout the color.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Make it interesting guys.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
And it's really the spirit of the character that we
all should be coming togetheraround.
So when you and your friendsget together and you guys
cosplay, like, how much of theinspiration of the original
character do you take and howmuch dramatic license being that
the character is not originallyof color how much creative
(08:51):
license do you take with it fromthat when you decide?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I sometimes think like it's like an even split.
So my sister wants to doJessica Rabbit, but the only
thing that she's really going todo is the hair, the makeup, the
dress, the gloves, becausethere's not too much else that
you can do with that character.
So I guess it just depends onwhich character it is, because
(09:18):
you can do like a 50-50 split,like the exact spirit of the
character and then your ownlittle spin.
So when I do a character fromlike a video game, ari, for
example, from League of Legends,I love her, but I always choose
(09:39):
a skin of hers.
Because she has so manydifferent skins, I always choose
a skin of hers to do becausethen I can get a little bit more
creative with it.
So like how Storm has a millionof one different outfits because
she is absolutely a fashionicon, I chose for her a outfit
that she had it's all pinkoutfit, white person.
(10:01):
She went to Mullins.
I chose that because then Icould get creative with the
things in my closet.
So it just depends on what youwant to do, but it can always be
50-50, or you're going to takethe idea of, oh, she wore this
outfit in this universe one timeand then that's the only thing
(10:23):
that you take is the outfit, andthen just the rest of it is
just your own complete spin.
So it's like a 90-10 split typething when we pick ours.
We want to do the PowerpuffGirls as a group cosplay, but we
found the colors and we knowtheir personalities, so which
(10:43):
girl goes to their personality?
And then the colors and thenthe outfit is just us.
Whatever outfit we put together, however we choose to wear hair
, afro or gown, but it's justlike kind of.
You have to just kind of decideif you want to be the exact
character or if you want to havethe inspiration of the
(11:06):
character and be yourself withwhatever you put together.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I remember a couple years back in cosplay there was
a big kind of steampunk thingrunning, Like everybody was
doing versions of character andsteampunk.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And it was.
It was fine, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, and it never really resonated with me, but I
get it.
And then you had the Batman byGaslight come out and it was
really set in that Victorianarea around the steampunk and so
there was kind of a push ofthat.
But why is it so important foryoung women of color, and black
(11:44):
women in particular, to reallyassert themselves in the world
of fantasy and animation andanime?
Why is it really important?
Because I know we have thesebattles around representation
and we have these battles aroundwhat we're trying to portray in
terms of the fandom andaccuracy and people are really
(12:09):
on comic book accuracy, which isreally just a code word for
keeping it white.
Why is it so important that youguys take a stand, that women
take a stand and be representedin all facets of fandom and I
mean I'm not just talking aboutin color, but also in height, in
(12:32):
shape, in body representation,because comic books always paint
a very unrealistic version viewof the female body.
And so why is it reallyimportant for young women of all
shapes and sizes and colors tobe represented in the fandom
today?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
It's just because we like growing up we didn't have
it.
So my very first anime wasAkira, and then after that it
was Princess Mononoke.
So Princess Mononoke, that's mygirl.
However, there are exactly zeropeople of color in the movie.
But I love that movie.
(13:12):
And when we get into, likecharacter black characters who
were represented in Dragon BallZ with the big lips and the dark
skin, and they changed Mr Cocofrom being black to blue at some
point in time but he was likemidnight dark with these super
people in it.
But then you get intocharacters from Naruto, where
(13:34):
the only issue with the anyblack character that I had in
Naruto wasn't even how theylooked, it was how he was
talking.
Killer B was talking like raplyrics, almost.
So I'm like ills.
But because we get people from Ithink she's from Hunter Hunter,
canary, where she is justabsolutely amazing and then the
(14:00):
New Castlevania coming out wherewe have black and indigenous
vampires and that fight betweenthe voodoo girl I think her
name's gonna be Annette's andthe black vampire and they have
that fight going on, I'm likewhat the heck?
And it's important, becausewhat we were watching when we
were younger was not us Like wecould connect with them on a
(14:22):
personality level, but on alooking level we can't, and so I
think it's just reallyimportant that we get that push
and everybody's so excited forthese characters that are coming
in, like Generation V for theboys, where we've got some black
characters coming through withsome powers and it's just like
an invincible bullet.
Proof is about to come in, therag is about to come in and I'm
(14:43):
just like I'm here for it, allof it.
I'm so ready.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, and I think the biggest thing is that and I'm
glad you said, mr Popo, becausehonestly, I grew up and I'm much
older than you and I grew up inwatching the 1932 match fly
shirt Superman cartoons, wherethe Japanese people were like
the Asian people, were drawnwith the very slant eyes and the
(15:09):
big teeth, and black people hadthe big pronounced white lips
and the very dark skin with thesmall plaids and things, and I
remember that.
And even with things likeLooney Tunes, when they would
shoot them and blow them up,they would resemble the little
nigglets, the little niggletcart babies that they used to
(15:30):
make in the South during slavery, and it was always this, such a
negative representation of whatblack people look like.
And so now, as we progress withthe art, we should see a more
physically accurate view of whatwe look like.
I was just watching myadventures with Superman and
(15:53):
Perry White is black and JimmyOlsen is now a brown kid.
But if you look at the hands,the way the hands are drawn like
, it still has that homage tothe old anime style, the way
they drew black people with thevery pronounced shades of things
like lips and hands and stufflike that.
(16:15):
And so we haven't all haven'tgotten there, but I can say
we're definitely moving in theright direction.
But it's gonna take pushes fromcreators like yourself to be
able to inspire the artists andthe writers in the room and then
, hopefully, creators likeyourself and myself we get in
the rooms to be able toinfluence that.
(16:35):
And so what do you see in termsof the direction of the
industry from reaching out tocreators like yourself who have
this, who are able to influencewhat people see in terms of the
representation of the characters?
Have you been reached out to byanyone and said hey, you've got
a clearly large following onacross social media.
(16:58):
Is there an opportunity for youto get in, to, maybe influence
that?
Is that something you wanna doone day?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I do.
Actually, one time when I wasdoing Trinary, marvel's official
page had, like the video,shared the video and they kind
of just like kept it becauseTrinary is kind of like one of
their new and I think she's fromIraq, I wanna say.
But I haven't reached out topersonally but I do have other
(17:30):
creator friends who are withplatforms a bit bigger than mine
, who have been reached out toand they've kind of given their
ideas and we are kind of seeingit.
We're kind of seeing the try.
Some people are trying a littlebit too hard, like when they
did the what if for MilesMorales and he was Thor and it
was so bad.
(17:51):
But then you know, they Did theone when he was Wolverine, when
they did what if you were inWolverine was great.
The third one was not great.
I don't know why they got that.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
This.
I just talked about this at onmy panel at galaxy con.
I literally just talked aboutthe fact that, if I ever see
like there were no black peoplein the room when this was
discussed there couldn't havebeen anybody in the room because
it never would have made it tothe light of day If there was
any black people in the roomthat said you guys can't put
(18:29):
this out, like it was reallythat that was one of the worst,
most disrespectful almost whatelse that I've ever seen like I.
I love Miles Morales, I loveThor, both of those characters.
But the idea that you wouldjust take Thor, take Miles
Morales and reduce him to some,you know, really bad hip-hop
(18:54):
slang.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Speaking in the rap lyrics and when they did, the
one who was playing sif and shecame in and she was like hot
wings coming in high and I waslike what?
And then he is me on here wasgraffiti and graffiti.
And then when he was a biotinfade and I was like he doesn't
(19:19):
even have hair, so why are wedoing that part?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
It was.
Honestly it was, it was.
It was disrespectful like itand I don't I don't think
there's any other word I canreally use to describe it was.
It was like a black spoilationfilm from the 70s.
It was like so disrespectful.
But you know, and I think thisis where we have to make sure
that we're not Just acceptingrepresentation for
(19:46):
representation sake, becausejust because there's a black or
a brown face as a prominentcharacter, does it mean it's
always good and it doesn't meanthat it's it's progressing or
Doesn't mean that it's movingthe ball forward.
It could be setting us back.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, and I was almost kind of how I felt when
they did, when they did doStarfire in Titans, like she
here is our token blackcharacter, yeah, and then she
was just she like had hookerclothes on and I was like, okay,
(20:24):
and then they tried to erasethat by making her a bit bigger
and then, but then they broughtin her sister and her sister was
like it felt like a setback tome and I'm like so are we going
to go forward or are we going togo back?
What is happening?
And then when they did Naomi,nobody watched Naomi.
(20:44):
As powerful and as great asNaomi's story is, nobody watched
Naomi.
Because the first five minutesof the first episode I thought I
was gonna be sick.
I was like this is absolutegarbage and I don't understand
the Vixen.
Vixen should have had her ownshow or movie by now.
They gave her a cartoon on theCW that came on at three o'clock
in the morning.
They want us three o'clock inthe morning.
(21:05):
If you didn't catch the three,everybody don't watch it.
And I was like our truth is sobad and it's like there are so
many really good characters,which is why I do the comic book
characters.
I was like everybody that I'veever talked to.
I'm like who's your favoriteblack character?
And it's always the same ones.
It's blade, green Lantern,storm, black panther, luke Cage.
(21:28):
And then I'm like, well, youknow, there are this list of
people and they're like I'venever heard of them, I know.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
I know.
And this is why this is wherethey do that all the time.
They introduce a really goodone, and then they just go away.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
And this is why I Really so much love your, your
page, because I think the firsttime I really discovered your
page and what caused me tofollow you was you introduced
Trevor Barnes.
You reminded of you weretalking about interracial
relationships in Comics and youbrought up Wonder Woman's black
(22:06):
boyfriend and I remember that.
I remember that those series ofComics and it just clipped.
I was like, oh my god, trevorBarnes.
I remember Like because he wasfrom Charlotte, like he was from
North Carolina, and I rememberthat that's what kind of
remember mine to me and I wasjust like there's so much
(22:27):
history where we had, you knowthis, this really this blip of
Representation and it just gotwiped away.
You know, you know Batman hashad interracial relationships
and you know Barry Allen has hadinterracial relationships.
There's been so many timeswhere You've had these
(22:48):
relationships that just didn'twork out, and I mean obviously
they With the, the CW flash,with Iris Allen being black now,
and so it's been there but ithasn't been sustained and so
like.
This is why your channel and andand folks that do what you do
on social media, it's soimportant to the fandom is
(23:10):
because it's the education.
So we don't feel like we haveto necessarily argue to race
being the character.
There is a rich history of ourcharacter representation in
comic books.
Now, hopefully going forward,we see it in anime, like you
know, with with Castlevaniacoming up, I remember afro
(23:31):
samurai, like all those.
But I would love to see more inanime like is that something
that you Want?
Because the anime folks camehard?
It's the cons like.
They come hard at the cons,even more so than superhero
Cosplayers.
Is that what you're hoping forin the next you know few years
(23:51):
that we see more of what, say,castlevania is doing in the
anime world?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I do and I think Because I think a lot of people
also missed out on yasuke,mainly because, I mean, the
story wasn't center focusedaround him, like I think people
wanted it to be.
But if they were to get a newseason, the director was like I
have a yasuke focused one here.
So something like yasuke,definitely something like what
(24:19):
castlevania is about to do.
Cannonbusters was not bad to me.
I absolutely loved that.
So like people were like hey,that shows, like how, and even
when we had some Hispanicrepresentation with sayes, monos
and Tracy, just like therepresentation was there.
But it's like it wasn't a AJapanese solo studio who did it,
(24:43):
it was somebody here who teamedup with a Japanese studio.
So I would absolutely love for,just like straight Japanese
anime to give us characters,like especially the way that
they did Hunter hunter withcanary, and when they did the
characters from Naruto, I Lovedthem.
(25:04):
They looked normal.
It was just that one who it waskiller bee who was talking, was
driving me insane, but hisdesign was amazing and then, of
course, he was badass.
So it was like I want that andhopefully, when people see how
we get this black and indigenousvampires in Castlevania, that
(25:25):
it'll push more forward and weget like the more representation
.
There are some, like webtoonsand manga, who do have really
good designs for blackcharacters, so hopefully they
come Forward with.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
So what?
So what are you reading now?
So what?
What if, if you had your, ifyou want to share with the folks
your playlist, like, what areyou reading?
What are you watching now?
Because you're always on pointwith With either the historical
aspect of comics and anime orwhat's coming down the pipe.
So what are you watching rightnow?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
What do you?
Right now I'm getting ready fora soca because a soca is about
to come out.
But I did find some new anime,zom 100.
Of course that one's reallygood, relatable, because of
course I would love for thezombie apocalypse to keep me
from going from work.
My card is one that I think isso underrated and it's not
(26:28):
talked about at all.
It has two people of color inthere for sure.
I don't know what the.
I don't know what they are, butthey're definitely of color and
really, really interesting tolook at.
High card is a really reallygood anime.
(26:49):
And then, as far as reading, theJLA versus Godzilla and King
Kong is about to come out, soI'm waiting for that.
And of course, this wholewedding ceremony between Emma
Frost and Tony Stark going intothe fold X and then like just
kind of the relationshipfriendship that's forming
between Wanda and Storm Isgetting my is like it needs more
(27:15):
attention because I thinkpeople forget that she does have
magical prowess and now thatWanda's mother Died and became
the mother of all witchcraft,anybody who is connected to
Wanda is now connected straightinto like all the most powerful
magic.
So I'm like, now that she canin you her lightning magic.
We have a problem here.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
He is definitely a problem and the crazy thing is,
I don't think, I think peopleUnderstand how powerful storm is
, what nobody knows how powerfulstorm is.
Because if you look at her, hermutant ability and the, the
omega level mutant ability,people forget about the fact
that she is literally a Godhead,like, like, has the goddess
(28:02):
head and Magic, and I thinkpeople don't understand that.
And now that that and I agreewith you I would love to see
that the relationship fleshedout, and I'm always, you know,
I'm always the one that I loveto see characters, especially
main characters, get a boost.
Like I love that, like I Idon't believe in nerfing
(28:23):
characters.
I believe, if that character issupposed to be powerful, that
character supposed to bepowerful and like I want to see
it, and so Storm getting thisand and and increasing her
magical ability.
I'm here, I'm definitely herefor it.
So, so those are some greatsuggestions.
So when are you going to benext and where can people find
(28:48):
you?
Just give yourself a plug andthen we'll.
We'll wrap up for today.
Um, well, like I said, at theend of the month I will be in
Atlanta for Dragon.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Con and then I would be in LA in December for LA
comic-con.
I'm not sure if I'm gonna bethere, but I'm gonna be there.
I'm gonna be in LA in Decemberfor LA comic-con, but I am, of
course, always on tiktok, k-wariAkari, it should still be that.
And then our my nerd on thestreet has a Podcast that we
(29:23):
started.
We are about to be on episodethree at our four-year
anniversary is actually thefirst day of Dragon Con, on the
31st of this month.
So we finally got the podcastkicked off and it's on Apple
Music, spotify, google Podcast,samsung podcast, all stuff.
And then we have our YouTubechannel.
Now we just go, we go live ontiktok and then I have like the
(29:46):
replay on our YouTube channel,which is nerd on the street
still.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So yeah, well, folks, all that will be in the show
notes.
You'll be able to find links ToChristina and all the great
stuff that she's doing.
Follow her, like her channel,blow it up, guys, if you want to
be educated on anime and comics, there's definitely want to
follow, and so we appreciate youbeing here today.
(30:13):
I know you're on the west coastso it's a little earlier.
It is on the east coast, butgreat to talk to you.
Um, just all the great stuffthat we, you're doing.
I commend you for being a greatexample for young women who are
really pushing forward in thisindustry.
Pushing the door, kicking thedoor is open Representation and
(30:33):
doing it very well.
You guys are.
You know, guys, you guys areinspirational.
I have I have two, you know,teenage daughters who love anime
and they love comic books, andyou know you're a great
Representation of the fact thatyou can do this and and do it at
a high level and Be true toyourself and and the characters,
(30:55):
and so thank you for being withus today and we really
appreciate you being a guestuntil we're politics podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Thank you for having me, it was fun.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Absolutely, like I said, go follow Christina, dr
Kari.
Great follow and folks rememberwe all have.
We're all connected in thisworld.
We're all connected in this,this fandom.
It's room for everybody.
No, we, we don't have togatekeep, we don't have to push
folks out.
We, we can open the door and wecan see some really great
(31:27):
interpretations of this material, because it's it's fantasy,
it's imagination.
It's the one place where we canall come together and express
ourselves Without condemnation,without, without pushback.
You know, be kind to oneanother, continue to push
forward the industry foreveryone and, like I said, we
always stay on superheropolitics podcast.
You don't have to be superhumanto be a superhuman.
(31:49):
Until next time.
This is your host, michaelHolmes, and we'll see you on the
next episode.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Thanks, christina, thanks, bye, bye.
One Well.
Good afternoon everyone andwelcome to the latest episode of
superhero politics.
We have a very special guestwith us today.
As always, I don't try to takeover that.
I turn it over to our guestsand let them introduce
themselves and tell them, tellyou guys about who they are and
(00:23):
the interest and we're going toget into the questions here in a
minute, so I will introduce ourguests.
We met on tick tock her channel.
Please forgive me forbutchering this doctor.
I'm going to turn it over toyou and tell them a little bit
(00:59):
about yourself and your historyand comic books and anime.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi, I'm a worry.
I literally just came up withthat name because my favorite
villain from Sailor Moon is away from the sailors Saturn
thing that was going on.
I started reading comic bookswhen I was like really little,
(01:29):
like third grade ish, which isactually the same time that my
dad started reading comics.
And my dad's been collectingcomic books since the 60s and
I've read pretty much all ofthem.
We've got about 6000 comics inour garage and the only reason I
know that is because I used toorganize them all and I would
(01:50):
catalog everything to go inwhich boxes, what series was it?
How many is in that series?
And I just like tally them upand be like, oh, we have like
6000 conflicts.
Now my dad's like why?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So what?
What region of the country areyou?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
in.
I'm currently in Nevada.
I live in Vegas.
We I was born in Los Angeles,raised in Tennessee and then we
moved to Las Vegas a coupleyears ago.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So obviously, you know, the West Coast has a has a
very rich history of comics andand I think you know, with
movie production and a lot ofthings is happening out there.
San Diego Comic Con is one ofthe biggest ones of the cons.
Have you in your family evergotten into the cons or
(02:44):
participating in the cons?
I know you're a huge cosplayer.
You have, you know, some someincredible cosplay on your site
and so have you guys ever gotteninto the cons and what was that
like, the experience like foryou?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Um, I've never been to like a big one.
I will be going to like myfirst big one this year, so
it'll be Dragon Con in Atlanta.
I'm going to that one.
It's my first time going tolike a big one.
I've been wanting to go to SanDiego Comic Con.
I had tickets to go to SanDiego Comic Con and we lost my
grandmother and we were planningthe funeral and I told them you
(03:22):
know, as long as the funeral isbefore this date or after this
date, we're good.
And they put it on that dateand I was like, now, why would
you do that?
So I had to cancel my tickets,only for them to move the dates
to two months prior.
And they're like, well, youwere going to the thing and I
was like, well, I sold thetickets.
(03:43):
They got the tickets back now,so you know, but we're going,
I'm doing that.
My first con was in Chattanooga.
It was kind of it was like conNougat, it was kind of small
because Chattanooga is reallynot that big.
It was fun though.
It was a really fun experience.
One of my friends who's areally big cosplayer came down
there and it was fun to bearound and see people who I've
(04:08):
never thought cosplay beforecosplay.
We got to sit in there on somepanels.
There was a Disney panel we satin on.
That was really cool.
We watched some people do somevideo games, but overall, like
the experience of the con wasreally cool.
I did have kind of like aslight issue before when I did
(04:29):
Typhoid Mary from Marvel and itwas just like, well, isn't she
white?
And I was like she is, but nottoday.
So I've gone through like a lotof my friends who are really
great cosplayers and we get thesame thing that character isn't
(04:51):
black and I'm like, well, youknow what they are today.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, and so that's one of the things that we always
want to address is, like youknow there's and you do a
fantastic job, folks.
If you guys follow KOARY onTikTok, you will see that she
does an amazing job of findingand cataloging heroes of color,
(05:20):
like heroes and villains ofcolor Every time, like it's so
many that comes out.
I like them because it remindsme of representation and stuff
that we don't really speak ofbecause it's not so prominent,
and so when you do race bend acharacter, you get that pushback
simply because black charactersor characters of color haven't
(05:43):
been that prevalent in comics orin really less so in anime.
So you know, when you guys goout, is it really, is it a lot
of pushback, or do you guys justhear people kind of under their
breath challenging you guys onthe fact that you raised bent a
character?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
A lot of the times it's kind of in the background
because you know some peoplewill be like oh my God, I
recognize that character, youdid a really good job.
And then, like somebody else inthat group, they'd like you
know I thought that characterwas different race and you know
they'll either tell them well,you can do whatever you want to
like, as long as you're not,like you know, black-facing a
(06:23):
character.
I think that's where somepeople get confused because,
like people there are women wholove Storm, who are not black,
and they feel like becausethey're not black, they can't
cosplay.
Of course you can, as long asyou have the hair, the eyes, the
outfit.
We know who you are.
It's really not that big deal.
But, like you know, if youdecide that you're going to
(06:46):
paint your face brown for somereason, you don't have to do
that, just like you don't haveto like shape your eyes to be a
Japanese character that you sawin an anime.
Like you don't have to do anyof that, and so it's always like
it's not really upfront untilyou get online, but like when
they're in your face they don'twant the physical consequences
(07:11):
of what they say.
So they'll be like oh my God, Ilove that.
That is really cool.
And then they'll get back lateron on some anonymous page and
be like oh my God, I can'tbelieve she did that.
That character's not black, soit kind of depends on, like, how
bold they want to be.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Because we were just at Galaxy Con in Raleigh here in
North Carolina and I sawseveral different iterations of
Starfire.
Now we've got the Anna JopStarfire from Titans and people
went nuts about that.
But I saw white Starfires and Isaw Black Starfires and I saw
folks who literally did theorange you know Teen Titans,
(07:53):
body paint, starfire, and soit's really.
There are really no rules aslong as I don't think you're
disrespectful to the character.
And so I think sometimes youknow, if there's a black
character that white people wantto portray, they feel like they
have to do the physicalembodiment of it and not the
spirit of the character.
(08:14):
And I think this is where weget into these consequences and
we get into these conflicts it'sbecause you don't feel like you
can represent the characterwithout the color.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Make it interesting guys.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
And it's really the spirit of the character that we
all should be coming togetheraround.
So when you and your friendsget together and you guys
cosplay, like, how much of theinspiration of the original
character do you take and howmuch dramatic license being that
the character is not originallyof color how much creative
(08:51):
license do you take with it fromthat when you decide?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I sometimes think like it's like an even split.
So my sister wants to doJessica Rabbit, but the only
thing that she's really going todo is the hair, the makeup, the
dress, the gloves, becausethere's not too much else that
you can do with that character.
So I guess it just depends onwhich character it is, because
(09:18):
you can do like a 50-50 split,like the exact spirit of the
character and then your ownlittle spin.
So when I do a character fromlike a video game, ari, for
example, from League of Legends,I love her, but I always choose
(09:39):
a skin of hers.
Because she has so manydifferent skins, I always choose
a skin of hers to do becausethen I can get a little bit more
creative with it.
So like how Storm has a millionof one different outfits because
she is absolutely a fashionicon, I chose for her a outfit
that she had it's all pinkoutfit, white person.
(10:01):
She went to Mullins.
I chose that because then Icould get creative with the
things in my closet.
So it just depends on what youwant to do, but it can always be
50-50, or you're going to takethe idea of, oh, she wore this
outfit in this universe one timeand then that's the only thing
(10:23):
that you take is the outfit, andthen just the rest of it is
just your own complete spin.
So it's like a 90-10 split typething when we pick ours.
We want to do the PowerpuffGirls as a group cosplay, but we
found the colors and we knowtheir personalities, so which
(10:43):
girl goes to their personality?
And then the colors and thenthe outfit is just us.
Whatever outfit we put together, however we choose to wear hair
, afro or gown, but it's justlike kind of.
You have to just kind of decideif you want to be the exact
character or if you want to havethe inspiration of the
(11:06):
character and be yourself withwhatever you put together.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I remember a couple years back in cosplay there was
a big kind of steampunk thingrunning, Like everybody was
doing versions of character andsteampunk.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And it was.
It was fine, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, and it never really resonated with me, but I
get it.
And then you had the Batman byGaslight come out and it was
really set in that Victorianarea around the steampunk and so
there was kind of a push ofthat.
But why is it so important foryoung women of color, and black
(11:44):
women in particular, to reallyassert themselves in the world
of fantasy and animation andanime?
Why is it really important?
Because I know we have thesebattles around representation
and we have these battles aroundwhat we're trying to portray in
terms of the fandom andaccuracy and people are really
(12:09):
on comic book accuracy, which isreally just a code word for
keeping it white.
Why is it so important that youguys take a stand, that women
take a stand and be representedin all facets of fandom and I
mean I'm not just talking aboutin color, but also in height, in
(12:32):
shape, in body representation,because comic books always paint
a very unrealistic version viewof the female body.
And so why is it reallyimportant for young women of all
shapes and sizes and colors tobe represented in the fandom
today?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
It's just because we like growing up we didn't have
it.
So my very first anime wasAkira, and then after that it
was Princess Mononoke.
So Princess Mononoke, that's mygirl.
However, there are exactly zeropeople of color in the movie.
But I love that movie.
(13:12):
And when we get into, likecharacter black characters who
were represented in Dragon BallZ with the big lips and the dark
skin, and they changed Mr Cocofrom being black to blue at some
point in time but he was likemidnight dark with these super
people in it.
But then you get intocharacters from Naruto, where
(13:34):
the only issue with the anyblack character that I had in
Naruto wasn't even how theylooked, it was how he was
talking.
Killer B was talking like raplyrics, almost.
So I'm like ills.
But because we get people from Ithink she's from Hunter Hunter,
canary, where she is justabsolutely amazing and then the
(14:00):
New Castlevania coming out wherewe have black and indigenous
vampires and that fight betweenthe voodoo girl I think her
name's gonna be Annette's andthe black vampire and they have
that fight going on, I'm likewhat the heck?
And it's important, becausewhat we were watching when we
were younger was not us Like wecould connect with them on a
(14:22):
personality level, but on alooking level we can't, and so I
think it's just reallyimportant that we get that push
and everybody's so excited forthese characters that are coming
in, like Generation V for theboys, where we've got some black
characters coming through withsome powers and it's just like
an invincible bullet.
Proof is about to come in, therag is about to come in and I'm
(14:43):
just like I'm here for it, allof it.
I'm so ready.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, and I think the biggest thing is that and I'm
glad you said, mr Popo, becausehonestly, I grew up and I'm much
older than you and I grew up inwatching the 1932 match fly
shirt Superman cartoons, wherethe Japanese people were like
the Asian people, were drawnwith the very slant eyes and the
(15:09):
big teeth, and black people hadthe big pronounced white lips
and the very dark skin with thesmall plaids and things, and I
remember that.
And even with things likeLooney Tunes, when they would
shoot them and blow them up,they would resemble the little
nigglets, the little niggletcart babies that they used to
(15:30):
make in the South during slavery, and it was always this, such a
negative representation of whatblack people look like.
And so now, as we progress withthe art, we should see a more
physically accurate view of whatwe look like.
I was just watching myadventures with Superman and
(15:53):
Perry White is black and JimmyOlsen is now a brown kid.
But if you look at the hands,the way the hands are drawn like
, it still has that homage tothe old anime style, the way
they drew black people with thevery pronounced shades of things
like lips and hands and stufflike that.
(16:15):
And so we haven't all haven'tgotten there, but I can say
we're definitely moving in theright direction.
But it's gonna take pushes fromcreators like yourself to be
able to inspire the artists andthe writers in the room and then
, hopefully, creators likeyourself and myself we get in
the rooms to be able toinfluence that.
(16:35):
And so what do you see in termsof the direction of the
industry from reaching out tocreators like yourself who have
this, who are able to influencewhat people see in terms of the
representation of the characters?
Have you been reached out to byanyone and said hey, you've got
a clearly large following onacross social media.
(16:58):
Is there an opportunity for youto get in, to, maybe influence
that?
Is that something you wanna doone day?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I do.
Actually, one time when I wasdoing Trinary, marvel's official
page had, like the video,shared the video and they kind
of just like kept it becauseTrinary is kind of like one of
their new and I think she's fromIraq, I wanna say.
But I haven't reached out topersonally but I do have other
(17:30):
creator friends who are withplatforms a bit bigger than mine
, who have been reached out toand they've kind of given their
ideas and we are kind of seeingit.
We're kind of seeing the try.
Some people are trying a littlebit too hard, like when they
did the what if for MilesMorales and he was Thor and it
was so bad.
(17:51):
But then you know, they Did theone when he was Wolverine, when
they did what if you were inWolverine was great.
The third one was not great.
I don't know why they got that.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
This.
I just talked about this at onmy panel at galaxy con.
I literally just talked aboutthe fact that, if I ever see
like there were no black peoplein the room when this was
discussed there couldn't havebeen anybody in the room because
it never would have made it tothe light of day If there was
any black people in the roomthat said you guys can't put
(18:29):
this out, like it was reallythat that was one of the worst,
most disrespectful almost whatelse that I've ever seen like I.
I love Miles Morales, I loveThor, both of those characters.
But the idea that you wouldjust take Thor, take Miles
Morales and reduce him to some,you know, really bad hip-hop
(18:54):
slang.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Speaking in the rap lyrics and when they did, the
one who was playing sif and shecame in and she was like hot
wings coming in high and I waslike what?
And then he is me on here wasgraffiti and graffiti.
And then when he was a biotinfade and I was like he doesn't
(19:19):
even have hair, so why are wedoing that part?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
It was.
Honestly it was, it was.
It was disrespectful like itand I don't I don't think
there's any other word I canreally use to describe it was.
It was like a black spoilationfilm from the 70s.
It was like so disrespectful.
But you know, and I think thisis where we have to make sure
that we're not Just acceptingrepresentation for
(19:46):
representation sake, becausejust because there's a black or
a brown face as a prominentcharacter, does it mean it's
always good and it doesn't meanthat it's it's progressing or
Doesn't mean that it's movingthe ball forward.
It could be setting us back.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, and I was almost kind of how I felt when
they did, when they did doStarfire in Titans, like she
here is our token blackcharacter, yeah, and then she
was just she like had hookerclothes on and I was like, okay,
(20:24):
and then they tried to erasethat by making her a bit bigger
and then, but then they broughtin her sister and her sister was
like it felt like a setback tome and I'm like so are we going
to go forward or are we going togo back?
What is happening?
And then when they did Naomi,nobody watched Naomi.
(20:44):
As powerful and as great asNaomi's story is, nobody watched
Naomi.
Because the first five minutesof the first episode I thought I
was gonna be sick.
I was like this is absolutegarbage and I don't understand
the Vixen.
Vixen should have had her ownshow or movie by now.
They gave her a cartoon on theCW that came on at three o'clock
in the morning.
They want us three o'clock inthe morning.
(21:05):
If you didn't catch the three,everybody don't watch it.
And I was like our truth is sobad and it's like there are so
many really good characters,which is why I do the comic book
characters.
I was like everybody that I'veever talked to.
I'm like who's your favoriteblack character?
And it's always the same ones.
It's blade, green Lantern,storm, black panther, luke Cage.
(21:28):
And then I'm like, well, youknow, there are this list of
people and they're like I'venever heard of them, I know.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
I know.
And this is why this is wherethey do that all the time.
They introduce a really goodone, and then they just go away.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
And this is why I Really so much love your, your
page, because I think the firsttime I really discovered your
page and what caused me tofollow you was you introduced
Trevor Barnes.
You reminded of you weretalking about interracial
relationships in Comics and youbrought up Wonder Woman's black
(22:06):
boyfriend and I remember that.
I remember that those series ofComics and it just clipped.
I was like, oh my god, trevorBarnes.
I remember Like because he wasfrom Charlotte, like he was from
North Carolina, and I rememberthat that's what kind of
remember mine to me and I wasjust like there's so much
(22:27):
history where we had, you knowthis, this really this blip of
Representation and it just gotwiped away.
You know, you know Batman hashad interracial relationships
and you know Barry Allen has hadinterracial relationships.
There's been so many timeswhere You've had these
(22:48):
relationships that just didn'twork out, and I mean obviously
they With the, the CW flash,with Iris Allen being black now,
and so it's been there but ithasn't been sustained and so
like.
This is why your channel and andand folks that do what you do
on social media, it's soimportant to the fandom is
(23:10):
because it's the education.
So we don't feel like we haveto necessarily argue to race
being the character.
There is a rich history of ourcharacter representation in
comic books.
Now, hopefully going forward,we see it in anime, like you
know, with with Castlevaniacoming up, I remember afro
(23:31):
samurai, like all those.
But I would love to see more inanime like is that something
that you Want?
Because the anime folks camehard?
It's the cons like.
They come hard at the cons,even more so than superhero
Cosplayers.
Is that what you're hoping forin the next you know few years
(23:51):
that we see more of what, say,castlevania is doing in the
anime world?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I do and I think Because I think a lot of people
also missed out on yasuke,mainly because, I mean, the
story wasn't center focusedaround him, like I think people
wanted it to be.
But if they were to get a newseason, the director was like I
have a yasuke focused one here.
So something like yasuke,definitely something like what
(24:19):
castlevania is about to do.
Cannonbusters was not bad to me.
I absolutely loved that.
So like people were like hey,that shows, like how, and even
when we had some Hispanicrepresentation with sayes, monos
and Tracy, just like therepresentation was there.
But it's like it wasn't a AJapanese solo studio who did it,
(24:43):
it was somebody here who teamedup with a Japanese studio.
So I would absolutely love for,just like straight Japanese
anime to give us characters,like especially the way that
they did Hunter hunter withcanary, and when they did the
characters from Naruto, I Lovedthem.
(25:04):
They looked normal.
It was just that one who it waskiller bee who was talking, was
driving me insane, but hisdesign was amazing and then, of
course, he was badass.
So it was like I want that andhopefully, when people see how
we get this black and indigenousvampires in Castlevania, that
(25:25):
it'll push more forward and weget like the more representation
.
There are some, like webtoonsand manga, who do have really
good designs for blackcharacters, so hopefully they
come Forward with.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
So what?
So what are you reading now?
So what?
What if, if you had your, ifyou want to share with the folks
your playlist, like, what areyou reading?
What are you watching now?
Because you're always on pointwith With either the historical
aspect of comics and anime orwhat's coming down the pipe.
So what are you watching rightnow?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
What do you?
Right now I'm getting ready fora soca because a soca is about
to come out.
But I did find some new anime,zom 100.
Of course that one's reallygood, relatable, because of
course I would love for thezombie apocalypse to keep me
from going from work.
My card is one that I think isso underrated and it's not
(26:28):
talked about at all.
It has two people of color inthere for sure.
I don't know what the.
I don't know what they are, butthey're definitely of color and
really, really interesting tolook at.
High card is a really reallygood anime.
(26:49):
And then, as far as reading, theJLA versus Godzilla and King
Kong is about to come out, soI'm waiting for that.
And of course, this wholewedding ceremony between Emma
Frost and Tony Stark going intothe fold X and then like just
kind of the relationshipfriendship that's forming
between Wanda and Storm Isgetting my is like it needs more
(27:15):
attention because I thinkpeople forget that she does have
magical prowess and now thatWanda's mother Died and became
the mother of all witchcraft,anybody who is connected to
Wanda is now connected straightinto like all the most powerful
magic.
So I'm like, now that she canin you her lightning magic.
We have a problem here.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
He is definitely a problem and the crazy thing is,
I don't think, I think peopleUnderstand how powerful storm is
, what nobody knows how powerfulstorm is.
Because if you look at her, hermutant ability and the, the
omega level mutant ability,people forget about the fact
that she is literally a Godhead,like, like, has the goddess
(28:02):
head and Magic, and I thinkpeople don't understand that.
And now that that and I agreewith you I would love to see
that the relationship fleshedout, and I'm always, you know,
I'm always the one that I loveto see characters, especially
main characters, get a boost.
Like I love that, like I Idon't believe in nerfing
(28:23):
characters.
I believe, if that character issupposed to be powerful, that
character supposed to bepowerful and like I want to see
it, and so Storm getting thisand and and increasing her
magical ability.
I'm here, I'm definitely herefor it.
So, so those are some greatsuggestions.
So when are you going to benext and where can people find
(28:48):
you?
Just give yourself a plug andthen we'll.
We'll wrap up for today.
Um, well, like I said, at theend of the month I will be in
Atlanta for Dragon.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Con and then I would be in LA in December for LA
comic-con.
I'm not sure if I'm gonna bethere, but I'm gonna be there.
I'm gonna be in LA in Decemberfor LA comic-con, but I am, of
course, always on tiktok, k-wariAkari, it should still be that.
And then our my nerd on thestreet has a Podcast that we
(29:23):
started.
We are about to be on episodethree at our four-year
anniversary is actually thefirst day of Dragon Con, on the
31st of this month.
So we finally got the podcastkicked off and it's on Apple
Music, spotify, google Podcast,samsung podcast, all stuff.
And then we have our YouTubechannel.
Now we just go, we go live ontiktok and then I have like the
(29:46):
replay on our YouTube channel,which is nerd on the street
still.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So yeah, well, folks, all that will be in the show
notes.
You'll be able to find links ToChristina and all the great
stuff that she's doing.
Follow her, like her channel,blow it up, guys, if you want to
be educated on anime and comics, there's definitely want to
follow, and so we appreciate youbeing here today.
(30:13):
I know you're on the west coastso it's a little earlier.
It is on the east coast, butgreat to talk to you.
Um, just all the great stuffthat we, you're doing.
I commend you for being a greatexample for young women who are
really pushing forward in thisindustry.
Pushing the door, kicking thedoor is open Representation and
(30:33):
doing it very well.
You guys are.
You know, guys, you guys areinspirational.
I have I have two, you know,teenage daughters who love anime
and they love comic books, andyou know you're a great
Representation of the fact thatyou can do this and and do it at
a high level and Be true toyourself and and the characters,
(30:55):
and so thank you for being withus today and we really
appreciate you being a guestuntil we're politics podcast.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Thank you for having me, it was fun.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Absolutely, like I said, go follow Christina, dr
Kari.
Great follow and folks rememberwe all have.
We're all connected in thisworld.
We're all connected in this,this fandom.
It's room for everybody.
No, we, we don't have togatekeep, we don't have to push
folks out.
We, we can open the door and wecan see some really great
(31:27):
interpretations of this material, because it's it's fantasy,
it's imagination.
It's the one place where we canall come together and express
ourselves Without condemnation,without, without pushback.
You know, be kind to oneanother, continue to push
forward the industry foreveryone and, like I said, we
always stay on superheropolitics podcast.
You don't have to be superhumanto be a superhuman.
(31:49):
Until next time.
This is your host, michaelHolmes, and we'll see you on the
next episode.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Thanks, christina, thanks, bye, bye.
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