Superhero Politics Podcast: Live From Galaxycon!

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Have you ever contemplated the power of comics? How they've been used throughout centuries to narrate potent political messages, shape societal beliefs, and even question the norm? We bring you an episode that will make you see comics in a different light. From our electrifying panel experience at Galaxy Con Rally to the analysis of the first comic strip created in the 1700s, we unravel the complexity and depth of comics. We also invite you, our listeners, to share your thoughts and questions ignited by our discussion.

We have an honest conversation about the vital issue of representation in comics and wider society. The impact of recent legislation, Supreme Court decisions, and their potential to erase history and reverse progress is alarming. We discuss such instances as the controversy surrounding Chadwick Boseman’s covered face in the Asian release of Black Panther. The narrative of how comics can serve as a medium of self-expression and celebration, particularly for children, wraps up this part. 

The topic of race-swapping in pop culture is a contentious one. We delve into representations of darker-skinned characters in historical art pieces and the implications of race-swaps today. Representation in media and comics has the potential to shape societal beliefs and opinions. We touch on the Bud Light controversy and the impact of actor strikes, illustrating the power of storytelling. The episode concludes with a deep look into diversity in X-Men comics, the upcoming Blue Beetle series, and how the 'otherness' phenomenon unites people against a common adversary. Tune in for an insightful, enlightening, and thought-provoking conversation.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone and welcome to the latest episode of
superhero politics.
This is your host, michaelHolmes, and this is a very
special episode because what youguys are going to be hearing is
the audio from the Phantompanel, that superhero politics
podcast conducted at galaxy conrally two weeks ago.
Just how this happened?

(00:22):
A little backstory.
Galaxy con comes to rally everyyear same time in July and I'm
always busy, like I'm alwaystraveling or I'm always always
doing something.
I never have a chance to go andso obviously this year you know
by this podcast been around fora while I really interested in

(00:44):
seeing as possibly we could getbecome part of the convention.
So I reached out to theorganizers and they said, hey,
let's talk about it.
We did a you know, really quickzoom and they said well, we'll
get back to you and you knowreally at that point.
I was like, yeah, I mean, thisis, this is guys kind of like
there, they're really not gonna,you know really do anything

(01:06):
with this.
And so, to my surprise, they did.
They came back and theyapproved the panel and I went
down and, you know, just withvery low expectations about
attendance, and you know, overthe course of the time waiting,
I saw, you know, a few peoplestarted starting to pick up a
little bit.
You know, two and three andfour, and the next thing, you

(01:27):
know, it was up to 20 and thenit was 28 and 30, and so I
looked at, was like wow, 30people who have, you know,
savings on there to do listen tothe convention.
And so I got in and got set upand then I realized I looked up
and I was like, oh my god, itwas like a hundred plus people
in the room and People werestanding and so really great and

(01:51):
great gauge crowd, lots oflaughing, lots of really cool
questions.
And so what we're gonna do nowis we're gonna play the audio
for you and what you're gonnahear is the presentation that we
did and then the Q&A from theAttendees at the panel.
And so if there's any questionsthat you guys have sparked from
this, please feel free to emailus at superpolitics and

(02:15):
gmailcom.
You can follow us and see thevideo of the panel on our
YouTube channel, and you canalso follow us on all social
media Facebook, instagram,tiktok, twitter.
You can see all of that thereand follow all that there, and
so, guys, you can contact us in,dm us through our social or

(02:37):
Email us directly.
So I really want to thank youguys for all the support, the
downloads and everything thatyou guys have done supporting
the podcast over the last coupleyears, and it's growing because
of you, and so we just thankyou so much, and so sit back and
enjoy this really coolopportunity that we had as a

(02:58):
podcast team here and Justremember you don't have to be
superhuman to be a superhuman.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
That's our motto, and so we'll see you next time,
thanks, so you guys be gentle.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
This is my first panel ever.
So you guys be gentle, thankyou, thank you.
So this is my little pandemicbaby that I'm.
I'm debuting here in Isolation.
This idea came to me to do so.
I bought a mic off Amazon andhere I am three years later at a

(03:39):
con.
So, hey, anything can happen,right, okay?
So I don't know what the timeis, but we'll go ahead and get
started.
So thank you for coming.
Everybody, my name is MichaelHolmes.

(04:00):
This is superhero politicspodcast and, just like I was,
just thank you so much.
Just like I was saying earlier,I had this idea during the,
during the pandemic, I wastalking to a friend about the
state of the country and youknow she couldn't believe what
was going on and I said well,you know, there's comic book
references to that, and so thereason why I saw superhero

(04:23):
politics is born is I'm aveteran of Politics.
I've been in it since I was 15,worked on my first political
campaign when I was 15 years old, I've collected more than
80,000 and traded more than80,000 comic books in my life,
and so early on, I noticed theParallels between what was

(04:44):
happening in comic books andwhat was happening in real life
and vice versa, and so I Am anelected official.
I am actually a politician.
I'm in office right now in HighPoint, north Carolina.
I serve on city council.
I was elected in 2019.
So, therefore, the superheropolitics, thank you, I am up.
I'm up through reelection thisyear.

(05:06):
So, homes for high point.
Calm, if you want to check outmy campaign.
But I, as you can see, haveloved comic books my whole life
and have been working inpolitics my whole life, because
I believe that if there's oneSuperpower that everyone has,
it's the ability to vote and andto affect change and to move
our democracy.
So, but just like everything inthis country, we are super

(05:30):
divided, things are super toxicand in every, every topic that
we discuss seems to go the routeof political discourse and into
the cesspool Of what ourpolitics is today.
So, when we talk about our thelatest Marvel film, or whether
it's secret invasion, or whetherit's what kind of forever?

(05:51):
Or whether it's it's uh, the,the guardian series, or whether
it's the flash, everything has apolitical bent, and immediately
someone will always say I hatehow political comics are now.
Like, like, I hate how, I hatehow political comics are now and
I'm just like, if you're justnow realizing their comics are

(06:12):
political, reading isfundamental, and it's not
fundamental to you Because yourcomprehension is a little bit on
the slower side, because Comicshave been political since the
very first comic strip was born,and so in about 1700 or
something like that, politicalsatire came out, and that was
essentially a comic strip and itit Showed a political message.

(06:38):
It was propaganda.
Prop comics were used inGermany for propaganda.
It's been used time and timeagain to convey political
messages.
And so you know, you look hereyou see Superman with Ronald
Reagan, and then also you seethe, the very racist 1932 max
fleischer superman, where he'schoking, the very caricature

(06:59):
Drone Asian guy, and it wassuper racist back in the day
where, you know, the the blackpeople had like really big
pronounced lips and bones andhuge noses, and it was super
racist.
But it was also politicalpropaganda.
And then you see, obviously,captain America and the Reds
goal.
I mean you can't get any morePropagandistic than that.

(07:19):
And so there was even a seriescalled the super presidents,
where a few of the presidentswere crime fighters.
And so If you're just nowcoming to the realization that
comic books and politics areintertwined.
I suggest taking a readingcomprehension course.
But for me, uh, I'm uh 50 yearsold.

(07:42):
I grew up in the 70s and the80s reading comic books and
early on the the the some of theseminal moments that I really
realized that comics had apolitical vent was Superfriends.
They just, god bless them.
God bless hannah barbara.
They tried so hard forrepresentation.

(08:03):
I mean, they tried so hard.
I mean a patchy cheese, goodlord, like try to run that one
today, right?
Uh, black, black hulking.
And I'm trying to figure outwhy every Com or every superhero
has black in it and almostevery black superhero has
electric powers, like stopstereo.
It's like we can, like we'renot just fast and have

(08:24):
electricity guys Like, come on,let us do something else.
And then you know, we've gotsamurai here with the top knot
and, uh, you've got el doradowith this Very stereotypical
mayan type deal.
But it's they tried to.
They, their intentions weregood, because they really tried
to make sure that little kidslike me who grew up loving comic

(08:47):
books but didn't see themselvesrepresenting comic books, they
didn't see themselves, and sothey tried to do that.
They were just very, verymisguided in how they did it.
And so, um, my first, the comicbook, the first comic book I
ever purchased that I really gotinto.
Besides the superman truth,justice in american way was the
trial of the flash.
And like um, flash and andEarbar thawed, there they're

(09:13):
racing around he's gonna try tokill linda park and flash snaps
his neck and I'm like, well, hedid everything he could, you
know.
Like that was good.
But then it was justice right,like he killed someone and so he
as a hero had to stand trialand it's just like, wow, this is
the real thing about how powerIs held accountable.

(09:34):
It's a real thing, um.
And then the first time,honestly, like you look at the,
the issues of race and um, youlook at x-men and the allegories
between the civil rightsmovement and um and mutant
rights, and then the first timeI ever saw the n word written in
in In print was kitty pride,and she said it quite a few

(09:56):
times.
I was, I'm worried about kitty,like she said it a few times in
the books, but um, but yeah,those are the first times when
you really got the sense thatthat life was leading art and
and art was leading life.
And so, um, comics have alwaysbeen on the leading edge.
They've always been there, um,not only just in the sense of

(10:18):
popular culture, but also, um,fighting for representation of
marginalized groups, um, the,the, whether it's women, right,
women's rights, making sure thatwomen have, um, you know,
positive representations.
I mean, honestly, I don't knowhow we got the got through

(10:39):
having every comic, but whatblack canaries and fishnets and
heels and a boosty a fightingcrime like Batman's an armor,
like he's an armor and she's ina boosty a and fishnets, like
something is a, something is amiss here.
And so you look at how women,uh, minorities, are portrayed.

(11:01):
At one point, almost everyorigin story of the black
character In comics was a streetkid who got saved by you know
some white billionaire and andgiven a chance to, to better
their lives.
And so not having theserepresentations of you know
positive, uh, female figures andand uh, positive affirmations

(11:23):
of african-americans in oursociety, um, that was because
the rooms and the writers didn'treflect the characters that
they were writing, and so thisis why you know folks like duane
mcduffy coming along anddeveloping you know, static
shock in that universe, andhaving one that is reflective of
the, the genre and the cultureand the people who write it, has

(11:46):
been so important, and socomics have touched on
everything from women's rightsto religion.
I mean, you've got, you know,kamala Khan and you've got
lucifer represented in comicbooks.
You've got the source, the oneabove all, you know night
crawlers at the bout christian.
You know, you've got so manytimes where, uh, politics and

(12:08):
Religion and other aspects comeinto comic books and they
actually have a place where wecan have a Conversation about
those.
But, just like everything elsein our society today, it gets
drugged down, like, if you'veever been in the comment section
of, like a youtube video, it'slike the bar scene in star wars,
right, it's just like.

(12:28):
It's like the, it's successful,and so you can't really comment
on how you feel about somethingwithout somebody throwing in.
You know, uh, you know let's gobrand-in, or you know trump
2024 or something like that.
But here's the thing like, thisis supposed to be the space
where we can imagine Anything ispossible, like you're, you're

(12:51):
supposed to be able to say, well, here's this super powered
alien that came to earth and nowhe's a hero saving everybody,
but he just can't be black orgay or Transient, like literally
shape shifting alien, but hecan't be trans.
You know it.
Just it doesn't make sensebecause somebody's going to be
offended, because they're notcentered in the politics and so

(13:15):
Everything that I've ever it'salmost like you know, you know
how the simpsons always predictstuff Like comic books.
Has they've done that, like Iremember, like the legacy virus,
uh, and the amazel virus in indc and marvel, and what do we
have in 2019?
We had a pandemic like with acrazy virus and you know.

(13:38):
And then we had, you know,obviously, the nationalistic
things like Um, every comic tookon 9, 11, every hero Villain,
everyone was in you know that atthe ground zero in new york and
it was those nationalists, umundertones that came forth in
the writing, like it reflectedpopular culture and it

(13:59):
galvanized us to some extent,but nothing ever really lasts
long because we go back to ourrespective ideological corners.
And so for us, for me,particularly speaking as an
African-American male, like Ididn't see really my first real
super superhero till John Stuartin about the 70s, and then

(14:24):
Storm came along and then Ireally got into Black Panther
and so I really started.
I didn't really see those andthen as we got later into the
80s and 90s, it started to be alittle bit more prevalent.
That I saw myself in comics,and that's the one thing about
politics that a lot of peoplethat we're fighting today.

(14:48):
We're fighting to make sure thatwe maintain representation.
We're trying not to push peopleback into the closet.
We're trying to make sureaccurate history is being taught
.
We're trying to make sure thatkids have an opportunity to be
able to learn about our historyand then make choices for
themselves.
But because we're so divided,we're trying to rewrite history.

(15:10):
I just did an episode, latestepisode on the Flash movie and
how Barry goes back in time andhe tries this Flashpoint, he
tries to reset that.
And we look at the legislationthat's just passed, we look at
Supreme Court justice decisionsand they're rolling back 50 half
centuries of precedent.
They're trying to rewrite thecivil rights era.
The VRA Voting Rights Act,provisions four and five got

(15:34):
gutted.
You got the Dove's decision.
That roll back, roll.
You just had affirmative actionroll back.
And so they're essentiallytrying to undo the civil rights
era.
And if they get their hands onit, they're gonna undo the new
deal when it comes to socialsecurity and Medicare.
And so they're trying to undolike the last century of

(15:54):
political progress.
And so when we talk aboutreality warping and going back
in time and resetting things.
It's not just in comic bookslike literally through political
power, you're able to rewindand erase people in all the
progress that they've been ableto make.
And so this is why, honestly,as a legislator, as someone

(16:18):
who's worked on more than 50campaigns in my life, I
understand how important it isto be able to make sure that
people don't lose the power toaffect their communities, and so
thank you so much.
I appreciate that.
But comic books are so pivotalin how young people are able to

(16:42):
feel themselves represented inour society.
I mean, you think about thisthe first openly gay character
in comics was North Star and anX-Men, and then we've got now
we've got trans represented onTV Dreamer Natalie Mayn's play
Dreamer on the Supergirl as atrans woman, and then this is

(17:07):
the one that really set peopleablaze.
John Kent came out as bisexual,like oh my God, and there was
one of the super folks who wasthey played Superman.
I mean, I don't know how y'allfeel about him, but he came out
and said Superman can't be gay.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Oh, sorry about that.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Sorry about that, yeah, and he said Superman can't
be gay.
And I was like dude, he's notreal.
Like he's not real, he canliterally be anything Like.
He can fly to the end of theuniverse.
And you worried about, he can'tbe gay, like it's really.
The sad part about it is that wecan't imagine because we're so

(17:54):
ideologically arrogant that wecan't imagine that even the
characters that are portrayedthey have to be exactly like us,
or we're offended oreverything's woke.
I am so tired of hearing thatdamn word Like it's a noun and a
verb, and woke Like everysingle thing, every single time
you hear something is woke,legislation is woke, judges is

(18:17):
woke, this and we don't evenunderstand what it means.
And we're actually making lawsand we're affecting popular
culture and we're fightingagainst artistry and creativity
because we think that it'ssomehow going to change our kids
.
I'm gonna tell you right now Igrew up on Looney Tunes and I
ain't never dropped an anvil onanybody's head.

(18:38):
All right, like you know, I'venever tried to solve my like
shoot a 12 gauge shotgun in mybrother's face to see if his
head was spinning around.
I didn't do any of that, and Imean think about all the things
that we witnessed, as at LooneyTunes, like you know, everybody
dressed in drag, like Bugs Bunnywas in drag every episode and,

(19:00):
jesus Christ, peppy Lapue wasrapey, like he was just like a,
like he was like sexuallyassaulting everybody and like we
didn't all grow up to likebecome like you know, like
assaultors, like we didn'thappen and we watched this every
day.
So the idea that we can'tdisseminate information and have

(19:24):
it not change who we arefundamentally is just weird.
And so you know, we're havingthis conversation about
representation and comic books.
They're fighting a good fight,because everywhere else in our
country, lawmakers are fightingto push us back.
And so if we don't have somemedium, some platform to be able

(19:46):
to say to kids it's okay,you're fine, there's nothing
wrong with you, you're a goodperson If we don't have that, if
kids can't see themselvesreflected, then we're gonna take
a step back, a generation back,and so you know it's.
But there's always backlash,Like you remember, like in Asia

(20:10):
when Black Panther debuted I seeyou in the back, wakanda,
forever, my brother, I see BlackPanther in the back.
And so when it debuted in SouthKorea and China, they covered
up Chadwick's, bozeman's facebecause they didn't want to show
a Black character.

(20:31):
This is what you see on theright is the American release
photo, and what you see on theleft is what they showed in Asia
, is what they showed in Chinaand South Korea.
They didn't show Halle Bailey,the little mermaid.
They didn't show that becauseshe was not the typical white

(20:56):
area.
And so like, even now, like, asrepresentation happens, this is
Bitterroot.
It's a really great indie comicand they just recently did a
Juneteenth episode and it calledFlag and Backlash.
I mean, juneteenth is therecognizing the days that the
last slaves in this country gottheir freedom, two years after

(21:20):
the Emancipation Proclamationand Bitterroot.
There's now a national flag andBitterroot did a story on it.
And I mean, even now, you knowmy adventures with Superman,
which is a really cute littleanime style story.
They racially swapped JimmyOlson right, he's now a brown
kid and every single time thatyou see comments on it it's like

(21:43):
, well, why did you have tochange him?
Well, why the hell not?
You know what's it matter in?
Jimmy Olson is brown, itdoesn't, it wouldn't matter if
Superman was brown.
It didn't matter is because youknow it's a character.
It's Superman is a mantle.
You know there's a bunch ofdifferent Superman out there
that you can talk about, whetherit's Calvin Ellis or Val Zad or

(22:05):
anybody else that you can dothat you can talk about.
Superman can be anybody.
Now don't get me wrong.
There's some characters that Ithink there's such that aspects
of their makeup and their originare so seminal that I don't
think you should mess with.
Like I honestly would reallyoppose anybody changing

(22:25):
Magneto's backstory.
Like I'd hate that, like I'dreally hate that.
I mean, cause you know, if as a, as a survivor of the Holocaust
, it is, it is just pivotal towho he is.
Now I don't give a damn aboutCharles Xavier.
Like you can be, anything, likeyou know he can.
He can be Kenyan, I don'treally care.
But Magneto, you, you have tokeep that Like that is a huge

(22:47):
part of who that character isand how they came to be.
So you know, for me I just say,like, as you continue to dig
into politics, as you continueto dig in, think about those
communities, think about, whenyou have conversations with your
families and friends, who, whoyou can have and stand up for.

(23:09):
The motto of our podcast is youdon't have to be superhuman to
be a superhuman.
Right, you can be good tosomebody, you can be good to
people.
You have the power to bepositive.
Because here's the thing Like,if we don't stay vigilant, some
crazy shit can happen.
Like, really, like, really.
I mean honestly, I this wasTrump was the reason this

(23:34):
podcast actually took off.
I'm going to tell you guys astory.
So when I was talking to myfriend about it, about how you
know politics often is reflectedin comic books, I said, you
know, she said to me like hey, Ican't believe we elected this
guy.
I said, well, you know there'scomic book presidents, right,
like Lex Luthor became presidentin in Superman comics.

(23:55):
I said, but the difference is,like he divested from Lex's, for
you know, like he at least,like can you imagine like being,
can you imagine being lessethical than a comic book
supervillain?
Like, like, can you likeliterally, can you imagine being
less ethical?
Like you know, like Trumpdidn't even stop running his
business out of the old office,and so Lex at least had the good
sense to be worried about amonument's causes.

(24:16):
But you know, that's so.
That's how funny it is.
And like you look at, like howTrump literally saw Barack Obama
as this Superman that he had totake it down, so much so that
he ran for president to do it,and so it was really life
reflecting art, and so that'skind of how we got here, folks,

(24:36):
and what I want to do with theremainder of our time is really
open up the floor for questions.
I'm glad y'all got that, man.
I'm glad y'all got that lastpen.
Like y'all, my people, I amhome, like I am home.
I'm glad y'all got that last,that last slide.
So questions anybody wantquestions?
Come, please, come forward.

(24:58):
I think there's a mic righthere.
I want to make sure that youguys, my guy top notch, top
notch, top notch, my guy, topnotch.
I love it.
Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
Well.

Speaker 6 (25:20):
I did have a question about like racial swap for
Johnny Storm.

Speaker 4 (25:24):
Yeah, Well, the recent ish Fantastic Four and I
kind of was like a littleconflicted about it yeah, yeah,
his origins.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (25:34):
So I kind of want to know, like what you were feeling
about him being a racial swapwhile his sister was still
carnage.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, I think I think in that, I think they really
wanted Michael B Jordan as anactor to carry that because he
was such a popular actor, butthe script was so bad and like
it, just the script was so bad.
There was no like you couldhave had, like you could have
had, like Lawrence Olivier andthose, those roles, and it

(25:58):
wouldn't have saved it.
Like it was a really strongcast.
But I think what they tried todo was they tried to modernize
it, they tried to bring it upand use the power of a very
popular actor to carry that film.
But you there's, there's onlyso much you can do with the
source material before you losepeople and like, honestly, what

(26:19):
they did to Dr Doom in that filmwas tragic.
It was, it was tragic, it wasabomination.
The only thing I hate more thanwhat they did to Dr Doom in that
movie was what they did to theMandarin Iron man 3.
That's the only thing I hatemore.
That's the only thing I hatemore.
It's the only thing that's moreunforgivable than what they did
to Dr Doom in the FantasticFour movie.

(26:41):
So I think, overall, I think heplayed the character well and,
to be honest with you, just abrash kind of you know, cocky
type of a dude.
That's just who Johnny Storm is.
He's a daredevil, he's ahothead, and so that's reflected
in the powers that he gainedfrom the cosmic radiation.
And so they tried it.

(27:02):
It just didn't work.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
So I don't watch that film ever.
So if that tells, you if thattells you how I feel about it.
I don't ever watch that film,and if someone gave that to me
as a gift, we would no longer befriends, but that's how I feel
about it.
They tried it, it was, it was a, it was a good effort, but it
just, it just didn't fly Right.
Yeah, thanks bro, absolutelygreat, great costume.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Thank you yeah, please, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (27:38):
So my question is surrounding, like the history,
surrounding how politics isoften interacted with art,
because I remember because,going back to how you mentioned,
politics and comics, even thenpropaganda in the form of
politics, going back to 1700s, Iremember watching a little
video talking about Georgianfashion and they did a

(28:00):
propaganda, and propaganda wasabout that, where women had
those elaborate wigs.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (28:06):
They talked like if the naval battle was done by the
British Navy, the women wouldhave ships done on their hair
and that sort of thing, and Iwanted to know how far this goes
back, because when I wasthinking about it I I'm a very
big Shakespeare fan.
But even then I understood thatsome of it was questionable.
Like if you look at Othello,othello is a great character and

(28:31):
no one really knows why Iagoreally went after him, but a lot
of people just assume that Iagowas probably racist and there
are racist allegations againstOthello.
That's one of the reasons whyDesdemona's father doesn't want
her wearing him.
But there are, like otherracial.
There are a couple of otherracial characters where the race

(28:51):
is is either included or it'simplied and for those other
cases that I found, none of themwere like racially positive.
They were really raciallynegative.
So that's the same for Jews inthe merchant events.
So my question to you is howfar do you think this

(29:12):
conversation could really goback if we wanted to look at our
general?

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, thank you.
That's a.
That's a great question, Ithink, as far as the ability for
people to communicate throughwritten word or art.
I think it goes back that far,when you like, the one thing
that we have now.
I mean, we've had this pendulumright where we had to draw

(29:38):
things because we didn't havephotos, and then we had photos
that could capture life likeimages, and now we have AI that
can create life like images.
And so now what?
What we look at is the power toshape opinions.
Right, we look at the power tochange reality.
So, when we think about folkslike Franklin Richards and we
think about folks like Mad JimJaspers, and we think about

(30:01):
those folks who carry, like thisreality warping power to be
able to change reality, want tomaximum, like to be able to to
change reality as they see fit,this is what we have now with
the ability to care,characterize folks in written
and art, right, and so we wantto shape people's opinions of

(30:24):
what we think.
Like you think about Othelloand Iago, like it wasn't hard
because Othello, being a morebeing a darker skinned folks,
you, you're automatically folkswere afraid of, well, I mean his
stature and everything, hisvoice, his power.
And so it wasn't easy, itwasn't hard to make folks afraid
of him.
You just had to sew a littlebit of doubt.

(30:46):
And so this is what you do whenyou control the power of the pen
, right, when you can writethings about folks, when you can
present folks in a, in a, in a,in a different way, like how
they used to draw Jews back inthe day darker skin, very, you
know, very menacing type looks,and it made people afraid of

(31:07):
them.
And so, as long as people havehad opinions and as long as
people were able to perceiveinformation, the ability to
change people's opinion throughart and comics has existed.
So it can go back as far asbeing able to put pen to paper.
Yeah, good evening.

Speaker 6 (31:29):
Good evening.
I'm Chris.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Hey.

Speaker 6 (31:32):
Chris, I do think it's interesting.
We brought up a fellow andironically, the best rendition
of him ever was LawrenceO'Lantern.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Absolutely, absolutely.
That's right, hey man.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
Hey absolutely.

Speaker 6 (31:43):
But the thing that I wanted to bring up is I had an
experience.
I just kind of want you to talkto me, so concentrate more on
the artistry at that time.
Yeah, so when I'm looking atcomics, right, and I'm seeing
characters be drawn, yeah itdrives me nuts when artists put
the same generic face on everycharacter.
Right, there's no effort madesometimes, and and you see, you

(32:03):
see all sorts of times.
A really good example this isSylocke being drawn with the
same face as every othercharacter.
Yeah Right, and yet she'ssupposed to be Asian.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Well, she's actually transracial.
Well, you know, you think aboutit.
Betsy Braddock started out as aBritish woman.

Speaker 6 (32:18):
She's not in the Betsy Braddock body.
She's supposed to look Asian,exactly, exactly.
I had an experience and so youknow.
To me I thought OK, well, thismakes sense If I'm doing a jam
piece or something like this ata con.
I love.
I love buying art or getting acommission done Right If I talk
to somebody that shares thatbackground yeah they're going to

(32:41):
be able to capture the essenceof those ethnicities and the
details Right Like I rememberseeing a version of Sylocke that
David Nakayama did.
And he's from Hawaii, right, andso tons of Asians, right and so
, and I remember, as I wasputting together this jam piece,
there was an artist that Italked to.

(33:01):
The guy was a black guy and Imade a comment about him adding
storm and I thought that hewould be able to capture storm,
really well.
And he took some offense to that.
Yeah, and I was, I was kind ofsurprised and I just kind of
felt like it was this momentwhere it was kind of like you're
damned if you do and you'redamned if you don't.
And you just sometimes, withthese political issues within

(33:28):
society and culture, it justseems like there's no way to get
the right answer, even when you, when you, try to be sincere.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
And so.

Speaker 6 (33:35):
I wanted to tee you up with that.
And then one other thought isdo you have any issue with the
fact that, with a lot of therace swaps in in characters
throughout pop culture, that italways seems to be that the
black actors are replacingredhead characters?

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Oh my God, I've heard it, I've heard this.

Speaker 6 (33:55):
I'm who are more genetically rare than folks that
are black right Like redheads.
Only make up point.
Only make up two percent of thepopulation.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Hey, I have.
I thank you for that.
Thank you for both thosequestions.
Yeah like, actually, I'll takethat one first.
Like, honestly, I think I thinkthere is an un, I think it's an
, I think there's a kind of anunspoken like what, who?

(34:24):
Who's the last group that wecan pick on Right?
Like who's the?
Who's the last group that wecan pick on?
Like we can't go after, youknow, we can't necessarily
visibly go after black people oror Jews, or so who's the group
that we can pick on?
And I think that, yeah, and Ithink the, I think the idea is
that there's been so few blackcharacters and there's and for

(34:49):
some reason there was a dirt theredheaded characters, like a
lot of them, like you know, likelike Jean Gray, and there was
so many redheaded characterslike, well, you're not going to
miss one or two if they, if theygo right, like, you're not
going to miss one or two.
And so I think what's happeningnow is that we're so
hypersensitive to things likethat that if we have a character

(35:09):
that we've traditionally,traditionally followed, and they
race, swap them, it's like, hey, you're taking it for me, you
know, and so we don't look atthe totality of it.
Look, I, I certainly am forcreating new characters.
I think it keeps the industryfresh.
I think it keeps the genrefresh.
I think it allows for thewriters to be able to expand

(35:30):
their creative minds, to come upwith new power sets and new
scales and things of that nature.
Like I really think that's whatshould happen, but I think, in
terms of timeframe, I think theydon't want to do it.
I think it takes so long to geta character to print and into
the public consciousness.
They don't want to take thetime to do it.

(35:51):
So it's so much easier to takea character that exists, with a,
with a back story, and justswap them, like you remember,
like Wallace West, like youremember, you all, like you all
remember when Wallace West cameout and everybody was like, well
, damn, y'all took Wally,another redhead right, and like
now he's black, and so I thinkit's the time that it takes to

(36:12):
get a character into the publicconsciousness that they don't
want to do.
So it's easier to race swap.

Speaker 6 (36:18):
Now your earlier question and, if you want, about
people drawing yes yes, notbeing able to feel like you can
find the right balance, rightand.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
I think what happens is that artists are very
temperamental and they say, well, look, I should you know, for
lack of yeah, artists are verytemperamental and they don't
want to be pigeonholed RightLike I'm a black artist, I'm a
black, I'm an artist who happensto be black, I'm not a black
artist, and so I should be ableto draw any character if I had

(36:50):
the skill to do it.
Now to your point.
I think the issue is when yourun into people who are not
surrounded by a community togive them guidance Because,
honestly, like I just read awhat if?
Where Miles Morales becomesThor and it sounded like a black
sportation film, Like JiveTurkey Sucka, like you know, it

(37:12):
was awful and I was like therewas no black people in the room,
there was no black people inthe writers room, Like there's
no way this could have gottenpast black people.
And then he said about the powerof my faith, yeah, the power of
my faith.
Like he, literally, yes, it wasthat awful, yeah, and that's
what I'm saying Like there wasno, there was nobody in the room

(37:34):
to be able to do that, to beable to to, to prove that and
say, look, you know, we, wedon't, we don't say that, bro,
like, we don't talk like thatLike, but in the sense of when
you're talking aboutrepresentation visually, you
need to have folks whounderstand the nuances of how a

(37:54):
race looks, because you wouldhave thought the only hairstyle
black people had was either baldor a shag, like for the longest
time.
Like because the folks who weredrawing black people couldn't
understand the nuance of blackhair.
And so, like, if you guys haveseen, like, the pictures that
I've shown of myself here, youcan see, like that's my secret
identity, I can change my hairreally quickly, so, like, I go

(38:15):
from the fade to braids, like,and so that's one thing that's
nuanced in our community is likeour hair, and when you don't
have folks in the room, you missthat and it alienates readers
from that community becauseyou're like yo, like we either
have afro or with ball, or youknow we have very tiny eyes, or

(38:36):
very, very big eyes.
You know it's so it's not.
It's the nuance that I think isnot there if you don't have
folks in the room.

Speaker 6 (38:44):
So do you think that it would be considered
discriminatory if somebodythat's an editor in Chief of
Marvel is assigning charactersthat have their own books people
like Sam Wilson?

Speaker 2 (38:56):
and.

Speaker 6 (38:56):
Miles Morales and they're assigning them to black
Hispanic artists.
Do you think that they wouldget backlash on that and say,
well, why do you only give thesecharacters to a black artist?

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, and so I think I think, in a way, there are a
lot of, there are a lot of folkswho work on every book, right.
So I think your team has got tobe diverse.
Like outside of my public life,I work in corporate America,
like in human resources, and soI understand like diversity,

(39:28):
equity, inclusion is a realthing.
And why do you have it isbecause if you have folks from
the same background and sameexperience, you're going to get
the same type of thoughts andsame ideas and the same outcomes
.
Like it's just a group thingtype of a thing.
You cannot avoid it.
And even if you have folks whohave generally different ideas
about problem solving,eventually your learned

(39:49):
experiences are going to bringyou to the same place.
And it's just sociology, it'sjust how things work.
And so this is why having a teamof diversity like when they did
that, that, what if with Miles?
Like they should have justliterally called up any black
person they knew and was like,hey, listen to this, and it
would have stopped immediately,it would have never gotten out

(40:09):
of the room.
Like no matter what, like it,and I think that's what they
have to do.
Like they have to have theleads as people from that
community, but then feel inbecause guess what?
Each one teach one, becausewhat happens is that team
understands from those folks howto view things and it helps.
It helps everybody grow.
Yeah, I think they should do it, but I think they should

(40:33):
diversify those things.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, what's your cool, cool Cost, by the way,
thank you.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
Comic codes of America.
Do you think everyone heardtheir healthy comic book
industry in general after itfirst came out, that's from
whatever it like, what come fromwildly like, even in World War
two.
But then it, after comics codesAmerica, I mean they got a
negative rast.
Yeah, I've got somepsychologists that said, oh, it
was worse, hitler, come on.

(41:06):
Yeah, and then it wasn't allcomes code America heard and
everything got team, or until Iwould say 1990s and 2000s, yeah,
and even DC on the upended thecomic code America back in 2011.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, I think here's the thing and I'm someone who's
a firm believer in that there'sa, there's a positive role that
government can play, but there'sjust some things that
government shouldn't do, and Ithink one of the things is
regulating art and free speechto a degree when you try to
drive a message, and I thinkthat's what happened with the
comic codes.
It's like, hey, we need thisnationalism, we need to, we need

(41:40):
to make this homogenous messagethat comes out of all, all
comics, and what happens isfolks are turned off by that.
Because, guess what?
If I don't feel that way, I'mnot gonna read that.
If I feel like I'm beingmanipulated, I'm not gonna read
that.
If I feel like you're trying toindoctrinate me, I'm gonna
reject it.
And so I think one of the thingsthat we have to do is this is

(42:02):
the.
This is the last kind of abastion of Creativity.
This is where you should beable to have the imagination to
imagine anything.
And so, when you get into apoint where you're saying that a
comic has to check this box,this box and this box, then you,
what you do is you limit thecreativity and the imagination
of the authors and the writers.

(42:22):
And so for me, I think it washeavy-handed and I think,
whatever mission that they hadwith the comic codes it, it
wasn't for the benefit of thegenre or the community and I
think it almost killed the comicindustry.
So I Don't, I'm not a supporterof that, because I think Art

(42:44):
and artists they should beguided by creativity and not
necessarily someone telling themwhat they have to say in the
message.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
I'm a question Do you think there were ever being a
non-straight Superman if thecomic code was still being
mulled by no, no, no, no, no,not a, not a chance, not a
chance.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
I mean, think about this.
We just went from truth justicein American way to truth
justice and a better tomorrow.
Right, like, and what happened?
Literally meltdown across thespectrum.
Like you hate America, likeyou're, like you're a commie
because you want it.
And like, to me, superman is.
You know, I always say this andfolks get mad at me when I talk

(43:28):
about Superman and he's my,he's my favorite character to
this day.
But Superman is an illegalimmigrant who had an anchor baby
, who just turned out to be gay.
Like you think about it, like,seriously, he's a little illegal
immigrant.
He came here, he didn't haveany papers, he was he, he was
taken in, he married an earthwoman and he had an anchor baby.
And so you know he's a DACA kid.

(43:50):
I mean, let's be honest, youknow so.
So he's, he's everything that alot of people hate what you put
him forward because he presentsas a very powerful white male.
And so that's why I think, whenyou try to change Superman,
it's almost like you're tryingto change America.

(44:10):
You know, it's like when youcriticize Superman, it's like
you're criticizing America and Ilove him.
But you know, he's thearchetype of what we are like.
You know, we see ourselves asSuperman, but the rest of the
world sees us as homelander, youknow, like, and so we got to do
like we got.
Like we got to deal with that,like we got to deal with that.

(44:34):
But thank you for the question.

Speaker 8 (44:35):
Great question, yeah, so I wanted to ask you about
really the role of companieswhen it comes to both promoting
progressive ideas but alsocapitalizing on them, for
example, Disney.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (44:54):
We have a black little mermaid.
We're gonna have a HispanicSnow White.
When it comes to Marvel, theyfired.
My pro-marital was one of themain people who was getting the?
Way of making the black panther, black women movies.
The same time you have what mybuyer said recently about the

(45:14):
rider strike and the actorstrike.
So when it comes to Gettingthese progressive ideas out of
inclusiveness and diversity andyet, there's still sort of the
dark aspect of they're stillabout the money and they can
shed.
The bottom line is what'simportant.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, I think I think in a lot of ways and we we just
recently saw like we sawbacklash when companies try to
Expand their markets, right, yousaw the Bud Light controversy
with the trans person on the can.
Like it was like did you thinkit was gonna turn you gay when
you sift it?
Like like that's kind of dumb,like you've been drinking that

(45:55):
beer for you forever and youthink, just because the trans
person's on the on the can isgonna, it's gonna affect you.
But you saw the, you saw thebacklash to that, because there
are certain things where folksbelieve that it's forced right
and instead of accepting theidea that trans people exist in
our society and deserve to beseen, it's almost like you're

(46:17):
forcing this thing down mythroat.
But companies understand thatyou know being being closed off
Hurts your bottom line, likebecause you're you're
segregating Large parts of thepopulation that you can make
money from.
So it's not really progress andprogressive, improgressive

(46:38):
ideals in the sense of beingprogressive.
It's more like I need morepeople to sell stuff to, so I'm
gonna open up the markets to soI can get a larger market share
of folks coming in, and so Ithink they in some degrees it
works out right and then somedegree really hurt, but like
already so fixed.
Like you know, liberals doesn'treally drink blood, like you

(47:02):
know, and so you, you had acaptive audience and so when
they tried to do that, it backbackfired.
But you look at things likeDick's sporting goods when they
stopped carrying Shotguns,they're stock went up.
When you look at, you know,nike, when they stood behind
Colin Kaepernick, they'restopped, went up.
When you look at you knowKeurig and folks who did pride
you know those that their stockwent up.

(47:23):
Why?
Because they had a broaderaudience and folks felt included
in their marketing campaign.
So progress, yes, but I thinkit's also just really just good
business, because the more, themore people that you open up
your market to, the moreopportunity you have to to make
money, and so is.
I don't know if it's analtruistic, like benevolent type

(47:44):
of a move, but hey, what else?
Whatever gets us there, gets usthere right.
And so the more times that wecan have people out in our
community that feel seen andrepresented and and have
opportunities To to be seen andrepresented, I think the better.
And have it, we get there.
I think it's cool.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
And just like to say I don't normally go to these
things.
Yeah, I've learned a lotactually.

Speaker 6 (48:10):
Oh great.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
It's really been, I guess, helpful to see it from a
different perspective.

Speaker 6 (48:16):
But I was wondering what your specific thoughts were
about the color changing ofspecific stories that have to do
with specifically like whiteculture such as Recently in the
news it came out that theactress that's gonna play Astrid
, yeah the new how to train yourdragon movie is going to be.

(48:37):
Can't remember if it was mixedor yeah black.
But, I was wondering what yourthoughts were specifically, as,
like the Norse, that whole areaand traditionally is very White
yeah, and I think to some degree, because you know you had
Valkyrie right Like you've.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
All three was changed Tessa Thompson play Valkyrie
and I don't think anybody in in,you know, hind all was you,
just so I think it's just reallykind of dramatic license and I
think if you say you know cuz,cuz, you can't really think
about like Wakanda and thinkthat you're gonna see, like you
know, very blonde hair, blueeyes, people running through

(49:17):
Wakanda, and so that's just notreally a thing.
And so I think there's some, Ithink you do have some abilities
to make sure that you are asaccurate as possible.
And I and so I Don't thinkanybody would really be up in
arms if you didn't change how totrain your dragon, like I don't
think anybody would.
And I think you know, dependingon what they were looking for

(49:39):
from the range of the actress,maybe whoever auditioned for
that was the best actor, likethe like.
The casting director for littlemermaid said Halle Bailey
walked in first and they reallycould have sent everyone else
home Because she walked in andthe first time a note came out
of her mouth they was likethat's it, and so she just

(49:59):
happened to be, you know, a verycaramel colored, you know young
, young woman, and so I think ifyou're, if you're casting the
best actress or actor, I thinkthat is one thing.
But if you're just trying to sayI'm gonna find someone to
update a modern artist, mymodernize a story, I think you

(50:21):
have to look at the storyoverall and see does it really
fit?
Because if you don't, if youdon't have more than just her,
then it looks forced, yeah, andso I think that's the thing.
Like the environment of themovie has to be reflective of a
change.
Like you look at, you look atAsgard and In in the Marvel
films, like it's, it's diverse,yeah, it's diverse.

(50:42):
So it wasn't a stretch whenTesla Thompson played balkyrie,
because you look around throughthe, through the city of Asgard,
and it's diverse, and so nobodyreally had a big idea.
But if you have, you know, onebrown actress in a Sea of blonde
Vikings, then you're gonna have, then it's gonna feel forced to
everyone and I don't think youaccomplished the goal that

(51:03):
you're trying to do.
Yeah, of course, absolutely.

Speaker 5 (51:07):
Yeah, come on, so you talked about it a second ago
and I don't feel super, superqualified to talk about this,
but Then you fit in with everypolitician that.
So black role models, like blackkids in America and pretty much

(51:29):
everywhere, actually in comics,yeah, I'd say right now, the
main one that comes to mind whenpeople think about that is
miles, sure.
Do you think that, even withhis like, it's been a blast, I
think is what?
Yeah, that's an electric power,but do you feel like, yeah, he

(51:50):
keeps it up uniqueness and youthink that he is a good role
model for that?
And I added under that if not,is there somebody better?
Is there somebody that youwould recommend a kid that wants
to start getting the comicbooks that you could?

Speaker 1 (52:04):
just a character you'd be able to point out.
Yeah, I think bird, I think Ithink miles is great.
I think miles is.
I think miles is great becauseyou know he has a unique set of
Skills like his, his abilitiesto be becoming visible.
Yeah, the venom blast is kindof stereotypical, but hey, but
look, it's a power set thattraditionally Peter Parker
didn't have right, and so Ithink that gives him some

(52:26):
delineation away from theoriginal character.
But like you think about howfar you go, like Miguel O'Hara
in 2099, like that guy's a beastman, like like speed, strength,
the shoulder showed the venom,these fangs.
Like this guy's a beast, likein he's an Hispanic, you know,
afro Hispanic guy and so yeah.

(52:46):
So I think as long as you makesome effort to show some
distinction between thecharacters, I think it's fine.
I think miles is a greatcharacter.
I would always recommend someoneto check out Virgil Hawkins
static shock, if you're gonnaget into it.
Yeah, if you're gonna get it.
If you, if you're a young blackkid and you want to get into
that, you really start withstatic shock and I'm so glad

(53:11):
that we're gonna get somematerial Coming from there.
Hi me, reyes is blue beetlescoming out.
So I think that's gonna befantastic, I'm gonna, I can't
wait so there's some really coolyoung people to be able to get
behind that show representationpositively.
And I think you know miles hasa great family structure, jaime

(53:31):
has a great family structure,and so I think that's a really
cool place to start.

Speaker 5 (53:35):
If you're looking, if young kids are looking for
romance, yeah, even with, butyou mean most made miles, not
that whatever.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Yeah, so yeah like honestly, like if I ever see the
Folks who wrote that like theydon't catch hands, like on site
like we we're going, like it'son site man Like you, like you
really did, because honestly, Ilove Thor to like I love Thor,
like I really love what theywere.
They've gone with Thor now withwith you know the all father,
all you know open force and andpower, cosmic and and he's like

(54:08):
OP with the venom, with thePhoenix Force and everything.
I love that.
Like I love seeing characterslike Reach a crazy OP level like
actually comics 1050.
Like Superman come back, come,come back from world, world and
he's in his juice and I've beenfighting for that for years
because I feel like they nerfedit.
But but I love that.
But this, that guy like that,what if miles like that's got to

(54:31):
go?
Like he's not worthy, so helike he needs to put the hammer
down like whatever.

Speaker 5 (54:37):
But yeah, in the right situation.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
I think if you guys see the spider-verse movies like
that, miles Is a really, reallygood role model.
He's respectful of his parents,he's really, he's really about
his community.
He takes his job in his rolewith spider-man seriously, he
really honors his mentor and thelegacy that Peter left, and I

(55:00):
think those are those are values, those are core values, and
that's one of the things of theunderpinnings that should cut
through the toxicity of politicsIs that there's a core values
to end politics.
There's there's justice andthere's there's there's Helping
out those who are weaker, likethat's what heroes are supposed
to do, and they're not bulliesand they're not, you know,

(55:23):
imperialist or anything likethat, even though they do go in
other people's countries withoutasking.
But, but you know, but it's tohelp people, is for good reasons
, and so those are the corevalues that I can't, for the
life of me, understand that howit got so consumed in this toxic
mess that we're in right now,because this should be the space

(55:46):
where we can have aconversation, like we're having
tonight, and our personalbeliefs come into it.
We just go back and forth aboutwhat we feel about the best
thing, about the character.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
So thank you, Thank you yeah, yeah, yeah See.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
We talk miles up.
Look, yeah, see.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
I don't feel to talk about it, okay.

Speaker 4 (56:13):
Yeah, okay, so it's kind of a loaded question.
Sure, the X-Men have justrecently had like they got Kakoa
going on.
They just recently had ashakeup in like the past weeks
issue and a lot of people didnot like how they handled it
right.
A lot of people have beenasking for more diversity in the
X-Men team and they finally getdiversity in something.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Yeah, right.

Speaker 4 (56:38):
So, in your opinion, how do you feel like the X-Men
can be handled to where?
Because it's widely known thatthey're like an allegory for
POCs.
And how do they get to a placewhere they're more famous
stories and they're more likemore infamous stories aren't

(56:58):
solely about like bigotry andalways having to because they
have the resurrection thing.
I kind of feel like some of thewriters are using it as a tool
to be like okay, we can kill offYep, boom, boom, boom, boom,
boom, boom, boom.
And then I do anything.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Yeah, I think what happens is when you have, when
you have a title that's sosteeped and it's so intertwined
with, like a societal issue,like sometimes you feel like you
can do almost anything withthat and that anything is
acceptable because folksunderstand what that means.

(57:33):
But what they miss is thatfolks don't always understand
what that means and so, likeKokoa is one of those things.
Like we're having this nationaldebate about reparations, right
.
Like we're having this debateabout how do we make communities
that suffered whole, and likeone of the things that was
promised, you know, after theCivil War was like 40 acres in a

(57:56):
mule, like give me this landback so that we can make the
best of what we wanted.
So there was this idea that wewere gonna integrate and society
was gonna be great and itdidn't happen.
And so, if you look at how andhonestly, like a lot of folks
will always have this thing thatyou know Martin Luther King and
Malcolm X were allegories forProfessor X and Magneto, right,

(58:21):
and so how do we have thispeaceful integration?
And or we have separate butequal, and I think there was
this idea with Kokoa that hey,we gave it our level best.
Humans are just not gonnaaccept us and so we gotta go off
and do our own thing.
But you gotta understand isthat power is one of those
things that can up in anything.

(58:43):
And so the struggle withininternally and, like you, have
debates within the blackcommunity about things like
reparations.
Some folks say we don't want itand other folks say, yeah, we
need it.
People are not a monolith.
The mutants, even thoughthey're different, humans, are
not a monolith.
And so I think, when you'retrying to write things like that
, like you have to be able tocover the spectrum of how people

(59:07):
feel.
And I think that arc started offreally strong and they tried to
do something because you knowyou do have popular characters
it's all good bro and so youhave, like, folks who are
demanding things like oh, I'dlove to see this character I
love, and you have an outcry.
So you try to fix everything,but you can't do it without

(59:29):
destroying the integrity of thestory.
And so what happens is it takesabout one page or one half of a
book to ruin the experience ofa really super yeah, just
happening.
And now you can't think abouthow great the other you know 10
or so issues were.
You think about how bad thisone is.
And so I think, honestly, thecontinuity between the writers,

(59:54):
that's something that you alsohave to think about as well,
because another writer can comeon and take it in a completely
different way.
Like, honestly, recently Iforget his name he did a run of
Black Panther and it was, yeah,John, yes, and it was so bad in
how they portrayed T'Challa, andso it's.

(01:00:14):
You know, this guy is likePrasanna Nongrata in the
community, because it's like youreally really took down a
pivotal character in thecommunity, and so it's really
about the writer and how theysee, because if not, then you
can really lose your audience.
Yeah of course, yeah, yeah, ofcourse, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:00:35):
Folks, I don't.
I think it's 10 o'clock.
I don't know what time this isin.
I hey, like I'm like cap, I cando this all day.

Speaker 6 (01:00:44):
But I'm 10, 10 o'clock.
Okay, okay yeah, so I'm gonnaask you a hard question Are we
good with that?
Yeah, so I suppose that youwould be fully in support of
like interracial couples andcomics and all that kind of
stuff.
I know I will be.
I come from an interracialcouple and one day I think that
our world is gonna exist, witheveryone looking like a

(01:01:04):
beautiful tan right, so wouldyou have an issue as well?
Kanda becomes more integratedinto the world if you have an
interracial relationship thatproduces a child that one day
rules or conduct and that childlooks white.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Yeah, I don't have a problem.
I wouldn't have a problem withthat at all.
I think the I think the issuewould be.
I think the issue would bemaybe amongst the tribes, like I
think you would have.
Like maybe that outside, I meanbecause you know, you think
about it Like you've got Hunterin there, you've got the white
wolf, you've got him.

(01:01:45):
He's part of the royal family,right, and so you know, if all
else fails, if every member ofthe royal family dies, hunter
becomes the new black pantherand he's white, and so I think,
in that regard, I don't thinkthere would be an issue.
But I do think when you talkabout protectionism and you talk
about xenophobia and you talkabout those things, I think

(01:02:09):
Wakanda forever was a perfectallegory of xenophobia and
protectionism.
When it comes to likegeopolitics, right, like you've
got these two powerful nationsthat don't wanna be bothered
because they understand howdangerous it is to have the
outside world infiltrate thatand so they stay separate into

(01:02:33):
themselves, I think I don'tthink, because of vibranium and
the power that it is, you wouldsee that, but I certainly don't,
I certainly wouldn't be againstyou know, shuri having an
interracial relationship andhaving a baby or a child of
remarrying, even though I wouldcry, cry, cry tears that he's

(01:02:54):
not with Storm.
But I wouldn't have a problemwith that.
I just think that it would be.
I think it would be a toughsale to the public.

Speaker 6 (01:03:06):
Sure sure, but that's a problem.
Yeah, yeah, and that's the next.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
No, it shouldn't.
No, you're absolutely right, itshould not be a tough sale.
But I think when we talk abouton either side of the issue,
there's a certain purity aspectthat folks and I hate that word
there's a certain purity aspectthat folks want to keep with
particular characters.

Speaker 6 (01:03:29):
But it goes down way easier on one side than it does
on the other.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
And it does.
And I think what happens iswhen I talked earlier about,
like, there's certain charactersthat you just can't, you should
not mess with their origin, andI talked about Magneto, I think
T'Challa and Wakanda are someof those characters where the
origin is so pivotal to what thecharacter is that you can't

(01:03:53):
really mess with that.
But that has nothing to do withgenerations upon generations
that happen after that.
So I wouldn't be mad at it, butI don't think.
I do think some of those sayingthat pendulum can swing both
ways and it would be a toughsale to the public.
Yeah, any other questions guys?
Hey, come on, come on, I thinkwe've got a few minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
No, you're good, you're good, he's kidding.
So.

Speaker 9 (01:04:22):
Hey everyone.
Yeah, my name is Wanda.
When I just had a questionabout.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
We kind of mentioned that like an allegory for units
would be you know rakes.
Or another example he likesUtopia, sure Predators would be
you know the black people on theside Do you feel that that's an
act comparison Cause, like whenyou consider mutants like
mutants are actually a threat.
Right, they actually havepowers.
Some of them, can you know, dothe entire universe, Anything

(01:04:49):
you know where the Predators wasUtopia.
They actually hunt prey.
Yeah, I mean they're an actualthreat.
So do you think that that's anact comparison?

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
I think anytime where you have a concentration of
power, that scene is predatory,whether that's political power,
whether that's wealth or whetherthat's physical manifestations
of race, like if you are seen aspowerful, you're seen as a
threat.
And so I think what's happenedis because you either set

(01:05:24):
someone up as powerful to usethem for their own end, or you
set someone up as powerful sothat you can have machinations
to control them.
And so one of the things thatyou do is you can scare people
by saying, oh, look at this, youknow very powerful mutant who
can just walk into your houseand take anything from you.
We've got to control thatperson.

(01:05:45):
And that was done to blackpeople after slavery and it was
done to justify brutality.
So when you think about the racemassacres that happened in this
country, it happened becausethey set black people up as
predators.
There was either a white womanor something that was accusing

(01:06:05):
someone of physical assault.
That justified the culling ofneighborhoods like Tulsa and
Rosewood, florida and Wilmington, north Carolina, in places like
that, because they set thisperson up as powerful, like look
at how they describe like blackathletes, you know, look, he's

(01:06:26):
a beast, he's you know.
Oh, he's an animal, he's gotthat dog in him.
But then you look at how theydescribe white athletes oh, he's
hitting and he's scrapping, andyou know it's a very different
thing and it's like one denotespower, the other denotes
intellect, and so you have thesetwo.
You have these two, thisjuxtaposition between the two,

(01:06:48):
and sometimes people feeljustified in treating one one
way and treating one another.
And so I think when you havethat dichotomy in comic books, I
think that's how the Friends ofHumanity, that's how you know
Trask and Striker, that's whyyou know they went and got Tony
Stark to help with the Sentinels, because we've got to have

(01:07:10):
something powerful enough to beable to stand against these
mutants, because if not, they'regoing to overrun us.
And so it's either I'm going toset you up as powerful to use
YouTube for your own end, or I'mgoing to set you up as powerful
to control you by making peoplefear.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:07:40):
I had a question.
Sure, a lot of the talk that'sbeen going on has been about
race and the allegories behindrace race swapping, yeah.
And I was thinking how itrelates to the comic that I read
the Visions.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:07:56):
And I was thinking how many of the scenes in the
comic depicted what I want tocall racism, if that's even the
correct word because of thecontext, certainly and
specifically the fact thatwithin the comic you could see
that people of all races unitedin the treatment that was

(01:08:18):
portrayed to a division.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:08:21):
I wanted to ask for your thoughts.
What do you think causes thatthat kind of vicious cycle?

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Yeah.
So here's the thing I think, ifthere's someone that's so
different and someone that's sooutside of the full traditional
aspect of what a group is like,there's a certain this is a very
diverse room, right.
We're different ages, we'redifferent races, we're different

(01:08:51):
sexes, we're different heights,colors, everything, but we all
mostly have two eyes and 10fingers and 10 toes, and like
we're human, right.
So when you have somethingthat's far outside of that,
that's the galvanizing force.
Like the Friends of Humanitywas a very diverse group, like
you know, like they were verydiverse but they hated mutants.
Why Mutants had that one thingthat separated them from

(01:09:14):
humanity the Visions, androids,you know, whatever it may be,
they were not human and so itwas able to galvanize all of
humanity, even over theirdifferences, against them.
Like there's nothing that thiscountry loves more than an out
group, we love to hate thatgroup, right, and so you see it,

(01:09:34):
even now, when you talk aboutthe LGBT community, it unites
those in the faith community.
Like it can be Southern Baptist, or it can be, you know, black
African, you know AfricanAmerican, episcopals it unites
them against the LGBT community.
So a lot of times, thoseindividual, those similarities,

(01:09:55):
if you have something that's sooutside the mainstream, it will
unite them against that person.
That's what happens with theVisions.
Yeah, oh, I'm over time.
I'm done, guys, but guys, thankyou so much.
Yeah, thank you so much forthis, guys.
I really appreciate it my firsttime ever, so I really
appreciate you guys being kindhey.