April 26, 2023 • 42 mins
I was recently given information from a gentleman inside the NDCS who is trying to get someone, anyone, to listen to his plight. He was recently informed that the facility has decided that the judge was wrong when he passed his sentence, and they were just going to take care of that for him right now. No trial, no "due process," just a letter informing him it was done.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The thirteenth Amendment to the United StatesConstitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude except as
a punishment for a crime. Everwondered how we ended up with the largest
prison population of any country. Haveyou noticed that those whose jobs it is
to protect and serve seem to bedemanding more and more blind obedience. You
didn't think it just happened by chance, did you. It's time to call
(00:23):
attention to the fact our government asthe most prolific slave owner on the planet.
This is surviving the system. Thankyou for joining me today on surviving
the system. This is Dance andDave, and today I have a real
life example that I would like togo over with you. You know,
the intro to the show talks aboutthe thirteenth Amendment abolishing quote unquote slavery,
(00:47):
which it really didn't. It justtransferred it to a different means. It's
still alive and well today. Wejust don't realize it because we're taught that
it was gone. But it's not. It's right there in black and white.
Slavery is alive and well. AndI had the opportunity to speak with
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the gentleman over the weekend to discussthe specifics of his case and what just
happened to him and how that allties in with modern day slavery. So
we'll get into that before we doa couple of quick housekeeping items. If
(01:32):
you're listening live on Fringe dot fm, thank you so much for tuning in.
The call line is open one eighthundred and five eight eight zero three
three five eight hundred five eight eightzero three three five. If you'd like
to call in and comment, ordiscuss or tell the story of your own
we'll be here to answer the phones. Don't forget to check out the website
(01:53):
Surviving the System dot org. Ikeep an archive of all the shows on
there, as well as a contactme part on Facebook dot com slash Surviving
the System and on Twitter at ststhe podcast. I keep both of those
open. I'm not very active posting, but those are open for you to
reach out and speak with me atany time. I'm almost always reachable.
(02:15):
The only time you ever won't getme is if I'm sleeping, but otherwise
I respond pretty quickly, so Iwould love to hear from you, and
if you have not already had theopportunity, If you're catching the show on
podcast. Make sure it takes sometime to like the show, leave a
(02:36):
rating, leave a comment, butmost importantly, share it with your community.
You know, I'm not going toget I'm not going to get any
help from algorithms. I'm not goingto get any big sponsorships. The only
way that I can continue to growthe show is just by you folks,
listening and sharing with your community.So thank you very much in advance for
(02:57):
your time. As always, beforewe get started, I do want to
take a quick moment and start theshow with gratitude, you know, because
we can get into some darker topics, and topics like today can be pretty
frustrating and they can leave you withjust some really disempowering emotions, just some
(03:21):
real frustration. And that's I mean, that's not good to have a show
and get you all worked up,get your frustrating, to get you pissed
off, and then just drop youand say, well, see you later,
talk you next week. That's notgoing to do anybody any good.
So we're going to go at thisin a constructive and productive manner. And
in order to do that, we'regoing to keep the frequency high. We're
going to keep that vibration high andby doing that, we're going to start
(03:44):
with gratitude. So before we getgoing, I just want to say that
I am I'm so grateful to behere with you, allowing me to live
out my purpose to help to remindyou of who you really are. So
if you haven't had the opportunity,last year, we had a really great
(04:04):
interview with mister Timothy Wright. Timand I spent months months lining up that
interview because he's inside the Department ofCorrections in Virginia and they don't make it
easy to talk to people, eventhough his story is getting national attention.
(04:26):
You know, there was a documentarydone about him, and then they combined.
Then they do a bigger documentary that'smaking the circuits right now on the
awards and the different film festivals andhasn't been released yet, but it will
be. So he had a lotof press interviews, and we tried a
few times. They just kept notreturning our calls, not returning any emails,
(04:53):
sending us around and round in IVR. Hell, oh, let me
transfer you to this person. Itjust took forever, and finally the stars
aligned and everything went exactly the wayit needed to, and we were able
to get tim on the show frominside. So since that point, you
know, I realized, Wow,that really opens things up for me.
(05:14):
If I can do press interviews,man, I would love to be able
to tell these stories from more peoplewho are inside, because they're they're right
there in the middle of it,they're living it. They could probably tell
us things that would blow our minds. You know, I know I can't.
I've got stories that I still haven'ttold yet, just because some of
them are some of them are prettydark, some of them are frustrating.
(05:36):
Some of them really I haven't hada good entry point to bring it up
on the show yet. But there'sa lot. There's a lot I haven't
talked about. The man getting someof these stories from these guys as great.
So I reached out to a coupleof my friends that I know and
speak with on a regular basis andsaid, hey, if you want to
(05:56):
come on, it's there for you. I'd love to have you. And
they're thinking about it, and onefriend of mine said, you know,
I'll think about it. But there'sa guy here who's been really worked up
about his case and he's been tryingto get people to listen to him.
You know, maybe you can talkto him, I said, you know,
(06:18):
that would be great. I don'tI don't know if I can get
a hold of him or you know, if you if I can add him
on the call list, we cantry it, see if we can do
press interviews. But man, inthe meantime, just give me a quick
high level overview what's going on,or send me some documentation, and I'll
talk about it. At least Imight not be able to get him on
the show, but I'll talk aboutit. So we lined up a phone
(06:41):
call over this last weekend and Iwas able to speak with him and he
explained to me what happened, andhe had sent me some corresponding documentation as
well, and it was legal documents. I can understand to a point,
but there comes there comes a timewhen I look at it and I'm just
(07:02):
like, man, I have absolutelyno idea what is going on here.
I have no idea what this issaying. I need explaining this to me.
So I needed to get him onso that I could talk about this
because I didn't understand. I didn'tunderstand some of it. So you know,
really there's and there's not much thatI can do to help. I
(07:26):
was very clear with him when Italked about this and said, man,
I'm happy to talk about your story. I'll talk all day long about it,
but please understand, I don't Idon't know that I'm going to be
able to get anybody to help you. That's I'm not that resource. Necessarily.
I may get somebody that might beable to point me in a direction,
or I may be able to talkto somebody who can give me somebody
else that you can reach out to. But I'm just I'm here to tell
(07:50):
the stories. I'm here to giveyou a voice. And he was like,
that's fantastic. That's all I want. I just want somebody to listen.
It's okay. So I'm going tokeep that promise to him today and
we're going to talk about this story. I'm not going to use his name
because I don't have his permission touse his name. But sadly, his
case is probably not very unique,even though this is a first one of
(08:11):
this kind that I've heard before,so he has Originally, he was sentenced
for twenty years and in Nebraska withthe good time while I'll be one ninety
one. The way that that worksis for every day you serve, you
get a day knocked off as longas you keep your head down and do
(08:35):
what you're supposed to do. Soyou take that number and cut it in
half, so at twenty becomes aten, and then they dangle that over
your head, kind of like thecarrot on the stick, where they just
say, okay, now keep inline and do what we tell you to
do, or we're just going totake some of that good time away.
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And if you get in a lotof trouble, and if you mess up
for equently enough, you'll do thewhole twenty. You'll lose all of your
good time. They'll just take itall away from you, and you'll stay
in there. Yeah, it's extraincentive for the system to keep everyone in
line. So he's got think he'scoming to the tail end of it.
(09:18):
He's been inside for seven it's gotthree years left, and he's of course
looking forward to that. He's man, that's the downhill slope. Three years
might seem like a long time,but when you're talking about ten years and
he's been in for seven, notthree years, it'll go by pretty quick.
That'll be there before you know it. I mean, think about it.
(09:43):
Three years ago this month three yearsago. Right now, COVID first
kicked off, that was three yearsago. Man, that feels like that
was yesterday for me. This lastthree years has just flown by in a
blur, and I don't even feellike a week has passed. So three
years left. He was notified bythe facility. They sent him some documentation
(10:09):
through the mail and they said,hey, by the way, the judge
that sentenced you, when he sentencedyou, look what he should have done,
was sentenced you with this mandatory minimum. So we're just gonna go ahead
and we're gonna fix that for youthere and tack that time on and now
here's your new release date. Andthey added on another five years. So
(10:35):
he just went from three years toeight. And he has been screaming bloody
murder six. I mean, hehas just been pulling his hair out trying
to get somebody to listen to him. Because I want you to think about
this. I want you to justput yourself in this man's shoes for one
(11:00):
minute, close your eyes and justimagine with me for a second that you
are taken away from everything you knowand love your entire life. You are
picked up physically forcibly removed from whereveryou're at right now, put into a
(11:22):
very small, confined space with nocolor, no friends, no family,
no TV, no books, videogames, no members of the opposite sex
(11:48):
to go out on a date with. You got nothing, nothing, And
someone says to you, all right, you're gonna sit here for ten years.
If you're good, we'll give yousome privileges here and there. You
(12:09):
can get a TV, maybe youcan check some books out. Maybe your
friends and family can come see you. I don't know, we'll talk about
it. But you've got ten years. And after a time, you know
that first six months is probably thetoughest because your mind has been conditioned to
(12:35):
be on the outside to be ableto do those things. Now you have
to completely redo yourself all of thecoping mechanisms that you were using, be
it video games, be it alcohol, the drugs, even healthy ones like
(12:58):
maybe by jumping on your bicycle andriding for ten miles, jogging in the
morning, enjoying a cup of coffeeand doing some meditation. Nope, you've
got none of that. Nothing.You sit in the cell. You get
an hour a day, maybe dependingon if we have enough people, and
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we'll let you outside in the cage. So now you've got to completely figure
out an entirely new system for yourlife from the ground up. You've got
to rebuild. And eventually, onceyou pass that six months, you say
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to yourself, Okay, we're inhere. There's nothing I can do to
change this. Now. Let's justbuckle down and let's get through this time.
Nine and a half years left.Let's go. And you start doing
your time, and as you goalong, you notice the time seems to
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be speeding up a little bit.It's moving pretty quickly. You look back
and you say, wow, andit's been two years already. I didn't
even seem that long. All right, I got eight more of these to
you. I didn't do that,or maybe you start to do what I
do, and you start to breakit down by mile markers, milestones.
(14:30):
My wife would come visit me everyweek, and I started breaking that down
by weeks, and I said,okay, so that's going to be and
I'm just making the number app Idon't remember what it was specifically. Once
she was able to come see me, I'm gonna say sixty. Okay,
sixty visits. That's all it is. We have sixty visits. And I
just started ticking them off, andevery time she came to see me,
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I would mark one off. Fiftynine more visits. Here we go fifty
eight, and then the next thingI knew, I looked and I was
like, holy crap, I'm justpast thirty visits. Were halfway there.
And as you start to get closerto the end, you start to think,
Okay, I'm almost I'm almost done. I better start getting ready because
(15:16):
I'm going to be out soon.And you start preparing, and mentally you
start preparing yourself, and your mindstarts to realize, hey, we're gonna
be able to go back to someof those things that we've missed, and
you start you start to yearn forthem. You really really really start to
go, oh, man, Ican't wait to get a hamburger. I
(15:41):
can't wait to drink a beer,just the little things. I can't wait
to sit down and spend a couplehours playing video games. I haven't done
that in so long. And you'vegot it figured out. Mentally, you're
(16:02):
on the downhill slope. Now.You are ready, you are prepared,
You're buckled down. You're like,all right, man, this last couple
of years, this is gonna gofly by, let's do this. I'm
ready. And then someone comes backin and says, hey, I know
you're supposed to get out in twomore years, but we're just gonna go
ahead and make that seven more.Yeah we added five more. Sorry about
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that, and just turns and walksoff. Now it's easy for me because
I've been there, but I wantyou to just try, just try and
imagine the mix of emotions that aregoing through you at that moment, all
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at one time. They hit allat once, rage, frustration, stadness,
desperation, depression, panic, anxiety. Because now you feel like you're
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right back where you were on dayone. Now you've got to completely rebuild
your system. You've got to startall over because you were you built that
small system for ten years and nowit's fifteen. Now you've got to start
over and you've got to redo it. And let me tell you what.
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It's enough to break a man orwoman. It will break you and you
will come out of that with alot of issues. And where are you
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supposed to direct these emotions. It'snot like you can pick up the phone
and call a bunch of people.It's not like you can invite everybody over
for a game night and have somepizza. It's not like you can go
out for a run. And I'mjust going back in a little bit.
I just need to get out fora while clear my head. That's not
how that works. You sit downand shut up. So let's let that
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stew for a minute. We're atthe bottom of the hour. We're going
to take a break, and whenwe come back, I'll talk a little
bit more about this gentleman's case,some of the things that he's done,
what he's tried to do, andhow again, it's just not it's not
(18:52):
new, it's not unique. Staytuned. We will be right back after
the break. So we went tobreak. We left off with me having
you sit inside of a cell forseven years and then get another five years
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dumped on top of your sentence.So now your ten years turns into fifteen
and you don't know what to dowith yourself. So there comes a point
then when you start to ask forhelp, and fortunately you know for all,
for all of the frustration and theissues with the system, I will
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say, there is inside of therewith the other But the other inmates,
I hate to use that word inmates, because they're not inmates or just other
people. You develop this camaraderie withthem. At the end of the day,
we always used to say, we'reall wearing the same color. You
(20:07):
can sit there and complain about whatsomebody's in for, make somebody, make
fun of somebody for something they did, but at the end of the day,
in the eyes of the rest ofthe world, you're just as much
a pos as I am. Soit builds this this sense of camaraderie.
(20:30):
And when you see someone get wrongedlike that, people start to speak up
and they come to your side andthey go, hey, try talking to
this person. They might be ableto help, or hey, something like
that happened to me. Here's whatI did. Try reaching out to this
organization. And you go through thenormal channels, you reach out to the
(20:53):
ombudsman, who I mean, quitehonestly, I have no idea what the
ombudsman does, because it has gotto be the world's most worthless position my
opinion. I've never I've never heardof an ombudsman doing anything, never heard
of an ombudsman doing a damn thing. But you reach out to him,
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you ask for help, and theycome back and tell you, you know
what we took a look at everything. Man, I understand that you're frustrated.
I really do. And you know, if I was in your situation,
i'd be I'd be pretty ticked offtoo. But yeah, that's not
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going to happen. They can goin and they can do whatever they want
to you. So yeah, it'sfine. I mean, it sucks to
be you, but you'll be allright, don't worry about it. Okay,
what now what am I supposed todo with that? So now you've
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got no idea what to do.You're stuck, You're locked up. Your
legal resource that's supposed to be thereto help you is gone. They're not
going to help you. So youreach out to some other nonprofit organizations.
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You know, let's let's let's take, for example, let's take the ACLU.
They get a lot of press,everybody knows who the ACLU is,
the American Civil Liberties Union, Andthey come back and they tell you,
(23:03):
yeah, you know what, I'dreally love to help, but you don't
have enough time left for us tobe able to help you. So yeah,
we're going to just have to saysorry, there's not much we can
do, and good luck. Soyou reach out to some other organizations,
(23:26):
and they all tell you the samething. They say, Yeah, you
know, we'd love to be ableto help, but boy, there's just
so many of you and just notenough of us. Man, there's there's
nothing we can do. I'm reallysorry. We wish you the best luck,
though, So you reach out toanother organization, because I mean,
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let's be realistic at this point,what have you got to lose? Mh.
And all you keep hearing is yeah, i'd be pretty ticked off too.
I understand i'd be mad. Butand there's nothing we can do to
help you. So sorry about that. You don't have the money for an
(24:23):
attorney because guess what you're inside.You can't go anywhere, you can't make
any money. You're stuck. Sowho are you going to ask for help?
(25:00):
What exactly are you going to beable to do? So you talk
to your friends and you know,hey, your friend just happened and knows
a guy who does a show.And that's how I ended up in the
(25:29):
middle of this. So yeah,this poor gentleman, this poor guy tried
everything he could think of, nothingnothing, nobody would help him. Nobody
would do anything for various reasons.And you know what, that's got to
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be the most frustrating thing. Thinkabout it. How ticked off would you
be if everybody was like, yeah, you're right, but I'm sorry,
there's another I can do. Howfrustrating is that to know you're right,
but that sucks to be you sorry, because and let's be absolutely clear here,
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they can do whatever the hell theywant to do to you because slavery
was not abolished, it was transferred, it was transformed, and it's still
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used today as punishment for a crime. So anyone that's stuck inside right now,
according to the eyes of the wall, they are legally, legally a
slave, and there's nothing you cando about it. You know why,
(27:32):
because we let it happen. Weall let it happen. You and me,
we all did because it's right therein black and white. It's right
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there. There's nothing we can do. And the funny thing is this part
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cracks me up. I love thispart. Think about this for a second.
So when a judge does something wrong, when the judge says I'm going
to sentence you to this, butlegally they're not able to you know what
they do They come back and theyjust say, well, I mean the
(28:41):
judge has autonomy, So I mean, there's nothing realse you can do.
Sorry about that? I mean,shoot, my case, my judge was
just, I mean, flat outwrong. I think I've told this story
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before, but man, I rememberI remember sitting there with my attorney after
I'd been sentenced. I've been therefor a week, and he came to
visit me, and I was like, what what the hell? Man like,
how could he do that? Andhe was like, I know you're
not gonna like this answer, butit's true. He was just wrong.
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And I'm like, well, Imean, okay, that's great, but
what, like, what do youmean he's wrong? Is there anything I
can do? Can I appeal this? Can I do something? And he
said, well, because he sentencedyou to time that's within the statute.
There's nothing to you can do,never mind the fact that he just made
shit up to sentence me. Nothingyou can do because in that courtroom,
(30:00):
that judge is essentially God. Youdo not question their authority, you do
not question their judgment, and Godhelp you if you don't follow every order
that they give you, regardless ofif it's right or wrong, doesn't matter.
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Do whatever they tell you to do, because in that courtroom. They
rule over everything, and it isextraordinarily difficult to hold them accountable for any
of their mistakes. You just can'tunless it is i mean, a gross
(30:53):
violation of the law. And eventhen you've got to have the right people
on your side, because when wetalk about the system, and specifically the
legal system, it's all politics.There are so much politics to it that
goes on it's just ridiculous. Sothis poor guy gets this ruling from the
(31:22):
judge, who in any other case, that judge is the law. That
judge has the final say in thatcourtroom, and there is nothing you can
do about it, whether you likeit or not. Tough, and they
(31:44):
come in seven years later and say, hey, he was wrong. We're
just gonna go ahead and fix thatfor him. Sorry about that, Have
a great day. Tell us howwe did on our survey. This is
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this is what we've allowed ourselves tobecome in this country. Now, this
is this is who we are.We allow our fellow man and woman,
I say man in the generic term, we allow our fellow human beings to
(32:30):
be treated like slaves. And thathas been reinforced by the media and politicians
constantly barraged with news articles, newsstories, video clips, audio clips.
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We need to be tough on crime, and all you ever hear in the
news is the stories of the onepercent. The one percent of these people
who are legitimately a hardened criminal,who are very far gone from humanity,
(33:21):
come back out in society and reoffend. It doesn't make them bad people,
means they need help. And justthe fact that you take people put them
into let's go, let's go nineteeneighty four, let's go, orwell for
(33:42):
a minute here, these are correctionalinstitutions. If there is ever an example
of double speak more blatant than that, I don't know it. Correctional institutions
suppose used to be there for correction, but we forgot to ask correction according
(34:08):
to whom? Like what are youtrying to correct? Because people go in
and they come out on the otherend worse for having gone through it.
I mean, I want you tojust stop and think right now of all
of the attention that's being placed onpeople and the stress that we are under
(34:32):
after three years of COVID and quietquitting, and nobody can find workers because
the workforce is burnt out, andnursing shortages because healthcare workers are burnt out
and food stabbing shortages because minimum wageworkers are burnt out and not making enough
(34:54):
money. You know, everything everywhere. Now, imagine if you tried to
go to someone and complain and say, hey, I don't think this is
right, and they just said tough, no therapy appointments, no paid time
(35:16):
off of work. Do you knowthat in California, if you're stressed,
you can go on paid leave indefinitelyin your employer has to pay you for
what could be the rest of yourlife because you're stressed. I wish,
(35:37):
I wish to god I was makingthat up now, not to say that
they aren't valid concerns, and thereare valid instances where someone may be mentally
in a position where they're unable towork, but then get some help and
(35:59):
get better. If it's been ayear and you're not getting better, maybe
you're not doing the right things.Maybe you need to look at changing it
up a little bit. But onthe inside, if you were to say,
(36:21):
man, I'm really stressed, Ican't go to work today, not
only would you not get paid forthat, you'd probably get written up and
potentially some of that time headed backonto your sentence because of that good time
wall because they dingle that carry overyour head and the carrot and the stick.
(36:42):
So you know, I had theopportunity to talk to this man and
listen to his story, and atone point in the conversation he stopped and
he just said, so what doyou think about all that? And I
said, man, I, firstof all, it sucks. I'm so
sorry that that happened to you.I mean, I don't know. I
(37:06):
don't know that I would have madethat. That would have broke me if
I would have been right there,right about to get out, right about
to see my kids and my familyagain. And I was right at the
finish line and someone said no,finish lines moved ten miles further. I
don't know that I can do it. I don't I don't want to know
if I could do it or not. But while I may, you know,
(37:37):
I may be empathized with you.I'm really sorry, man, but
your story is not unique. AndI don't say that to belittle you.
I don't say that to take anythingaway from you, or to say that
it's not a tragedy. But man, it happens all the time. It's
all the time. They get awaywith it. Because they can't. Because
(38:02):
when you've got someone who's inside ofa correctional institution otherwise known to the rest
of the world as a felon ora violent criminal or the dregs of society,
(38:23):
if someone from inside of a correctionalinstitution was to say, hey,
they just did this to me,society would say, good, you deserve
it. And they talk about iton the news, and they talk about
it on Fox, and they talkabout it on CNN, and maybe somebody
(38:45):
else would do a podcast about it, I don't know, and they all
talk about how well, we can'tlet people get away with this. We
have to teach them right from wrong. They have to learn from their mistakes.
They have to be consequented. Blahblah blah, blah, bruah blah.
Go down now, rabbit hole.You know, it's funny to be
able to spit all of that nonsenseout until you're on the receiving end of
(39:07):
it, and then the curtains arepulled back forcefully, very quickly, and
you very quickly learn, oh crap, everything I thought I knew was a
lie. So this gentleman, kudosto him. Man, he's got a
(39:32):
fortitude that I don't know that Iwould have, you know, the ability
to stand up in light of aninjustice like that. I don't know.
I couldn't do it, could you. I mean, think about it.
(39:53):
We get pissed off if we're shortagefifty bucks on our paycheck at the end
of the week. We call thatan injustice. Throw a fit, be
marching down into HR's office right away. It's excuse me, my paycheck is
wrong. Where's my fifty dollars?It took another five years of this man's
(40:15):
life. So what I'm going tosay at this point is get involved.
You know, I will never bethe one that tells you, oh,
you didn't go to the polls,but you need to do. The only
way to change is just to vote. I think the voting system and the
(40:36):
two party system is a croc.It's a croc. But what you can
do is you can start locally.You can go talk to your city council.
You can talk to your state senator, talk to your mayor, talk
to your talk to anybody that willlisten at a local level. If we
(40:57):
can start to change things lowly withinour direct community, eventually the system will
be replaced for a better system.I hope you have found value in tonight's
show. I hope that this spoketo you. I do not hope that
(41:22):
you are on the receiving end ofthis and that you're listening to this going
yeah, that happened to me too. If it does, man, I
am sorry to hear that. Kudosto you for having the strength. Don't
forget to check the website Surviving theSystem dot org, social media, Facebook
dot com, slash Surviving the Systemand on Twitter at STS the podcast.
(41:46):
Thank you for your time, Thankyou for your attention. Do you have
an idea for a story? Ifyou are the one that needs to tell
your story, If you went throughsomething similar and just could not get anybody
to listen and let me know,I would love to help to share your
story. As always, remember keepyour head up, don't let them get
(42:10):
you. It may be easy tolook at all the corruption and manipulation in
the system and feel hopeless. Hereat Surviving a System, we hold to
the belief that greatness is born inthe midst of extraordinary struggles. You were
created with a purpose, with infinitepotential, and many have lost sight of
that back We're here to remind youof who you are the best. Revenge
(42:32):
is success,
The thirteenth Amendment to the United StatesConstitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude except as
a punishment for a crime. Everwondered how we ended up with the largest
prison population of any country. Haveyou noticed that those whose jobs it is
to protect and serve seem to bedemanding more and more blind obedience. You
didn't think it just happened by chance, did you. It's time to call
(00:23):
attention to the fact our government asthe most prolific slave owner on the planet.
This is surviving the system. Thankyou for joining me today on surviving
the system. This is Dance andDave, and today I have a real
life example that I would like togo over with you. You know,
the intro to the show talks aboutthe thirteenth Amendment abolishing quote unquote slavery,
(00:47):
which it really didn't. It justtransferred it to a different means. It's
still alive and well today. Wejust don't realize it because we're taught that
it was gone. But it's not. It's right there in black and white.
Slavery is alive and well. AndI had the opportunity to speak with
(01:11):
the gentleman over the weekend to discussthe specifics of his case and what just
happened to him and how that allties in with modern day slavery. So
we'll get into that before we doa couple of quick housekeeping items. If
(01:32):
you're listening live on Fringe dot fm, thank you so much for tuning in.
The call line is open one eighthundred and five eight eight zero three
three five eight hundred five eight eightzero three three five. If you'd like
to call in and comment, ordiscuss or tell the story of your own
we'll be here to answer the phones. Don't forget to check out the website
(01:53):
Surviving the System dot org. Ikeep an archive of all the shows on
there, as well as a contactme part on Facebook dot com slash Surviving
the System and on Twitter at ststhe podcast. I keep both of those
open. I'm not very active posting, but those are open for you to
reach out and speak with me atany time. I'm almost always reachable.
(02:15):
The only time you ever won't getme is if I'm sleeping, but otherwise
I respond pretty quickly, so Iwould love to hear from you, and
if you have not already had theopportunity, If you're catching the show on
podcast. Make sure it takes sometime to like the show, leave a
(02:36):
rating, leave a comment, butmost importantly, share it with your community.
You know, I'm not going toget I'm not going to get any
help from algorithms. I'm not goingto get any big sponsorships. The only
way that I can continue to growthe show is just by you folks,
listening and sharing with your community.So thank you very much in advance for
(02:57):
your time. As always, beforewe get started, I do want to
take a quick moment and start theshow with gratitude, you know, because
we can get into some darker topics, and topics like today can be pretty
frustrating and they can leave you withjust some really disempowering emotions, just some
(03:21):
real frustration. And that's I mean, that's not good to have a show
and get you all worked up,get your frustrating, to get you pissed
off, and then just drop youand say, well, see you later,
talk you next week. That's notgoing to do anybody any good.
So we're going to go at thisin a constructive and productive manner. And
in order to do that, we'regoing to keep the frequency high. We're
going to keep that vibration high andby doing that, we're going to start
(03:44):
with gratitude. So before we getgoing, I just want to say that
I am I'm so grateful to behere with you, allowing me to live
out my purpose to help to remindyou of who you really are. So
if you haven't had the opportunity,last year, we had a really great
(04:04):
interview with mister Timothy Wright. Timand I spent months months lining up that
interview because he's inside the Department ofCorrections in Virginia and they don't make it
easy to talk to people, eventhough his story is getting national attention.
(04:26):
You know, there was a documentarydone about him, and then they combined.
Then they do a bigger documentary that'smaking the circuits right now on the
awards and the different film festivals andhasn't been released yet, but it will
be. So he had a lotof press interviews, and we tried a
few times. They just kept notreturning our calls, not returning any emails,
(04:53):
sending us around and round in IVR. Hell, oh, let me
transfer you to this person. Itjust took forever, and finally the stars
aligned and everything went exactly the wayit needed to, and we were able
to get tim on the show frominside. So since that point, you
know, I realized, Wow,that really opens things up for me.
(05:14):
If I can do press interviews,man, I would love to be able
to tell these stories from more peoplewho are inside, because they're they're right
there in the middle of it,they're living it. They could probably tell
us things that would blow our minds. You know, I know I can't.
I've got stories that I still haven'ttold yet, just because some of
them are some of them are prettydark, some of them are frustrating.
(05:36):
Some of them really I haven't hada good entry point to bring it up
on the show yet. But there'sa lot. There's a lot I haven't
talked about. The man getting someof these stories from these guys as great.
So I reached out to a coupleof my friends that I know and
speak with on a regular basis andsaid, hey, if you want to
(05:56):
come on, it's there for you. I'd love to have you. And
they're thinking about it, and onefriend of mine said, you know,
I'll think about it. But there'sa guy here who's been really worked up
about his case and he's been tryingto get people to listen to him.
You know, maybe you can talkto him, I said, you know,
(06:18):
that would be great. I don'tI don't know if I can get
a hold of him or you know, if you if I can add him
on the call list, we cantry it, see if we can do
press interviews. But man, inthe meantime, just give me a quick
high level overview what's going on,or send me some documentation, and I'll
talk about it. At least Imight not be able to get him on
the show, but I'll talk aboutit. So we lined up a phone
(06:41):
call over this last weekend and Iwas able to speak with him and he
explained to me what happened, andhe had sent me some corresponding documentation as
well, and it was legal documents. I can understand to a point,
but there comes there comes a timewhen I look at it and I'm just
(07:02):
like, man, I have absolutelyno idea what is going on here.
I have no idea what this issaying. I need explaining this to me.
So I needed to get him onso that I could talk about this
because I didn't understand. I didn'tunderstand some of it. So you know,
really there's and there's not much thatI can do to help. I
(07:26):
was very clear with him when Italked about this and said, man,
I'm happy to talk about your story. I'll talk all day long about it,
but please understand, I don't Idon't know that I'm going to be
able to get anybody to help you. That's I'm not that resource. Necessarily.
I may get somebody that might beable to point me in a direction,
or I may be able to talkto somebody who can give me somebody
else that you can reach out to. But I'm just I'm here to tell
(07:50):
the stories. I'm here to giveyou a voice. And he was like,
that's fantastic. That's all I want. I just want somebody to listen.
It's okay. So I'm going tokeep that promise to him today and
we're going to talk about this story. I'm not going to use his name
because I don't have his permission touse his name. But sadly, his
case is probably not very unique,even though this is a first one of
(08:11):
this kind that I've heard before,so he has Originally, he was sentenced
for twenty years and in Nebraska withthe good time while I'll be one ninety
one. The way that that worksis for every day you serve, you
get a day knocked off as longas you keep your head down and do
(08:35):
what you're supposed to do. Soyou take that number and cut it in
half, so at twenty becomes aten, and then they dangle that over
your head, kind of like thecarrot on the stick, where they just
say, okay, now keep inline and do what we tell you to
do, or we're just going totake some of that good time away.
(08:56):
And if you get in a lotof trouble, and if you mess up
for equently enough, you'll do thewhole twenty. You'll lose all of your
good time. They'll just take itall away from you, and you'll stay
in there. Yeah, it's extraincentive for the system to keep everyone in
line. So he's got think he'scoming to the tail end of it.
(09:18):
He's been inside for seven it's gotthree years left, and he's of course
looking forward to that. He's man, that's the downhill slope. Three years
might seem like a long time,but when you're talking about ten years and
he's been in for seven, notthree years, it'll go by pretty quick.
That'll be there before you know it. I mean, think about it.
(09:43):
Three years ago this month three yearsago. Right now, COVID first
kicked off, that was three yearsago. Man, that feels like that
was yesterday for me. This lastthree years has just flown by in a
blur, and I don't even feellike a week has passed. So three
years left. He was notified bythe facility. They sent him some documentation
(10:09):
through the mail and they said,hey, by the way, the judge
that sentenced you, when he sentencedyou, look what he should have done,
was sentenced you with this mandatory minimum. So we're just gonna go ahead
and we're gonna fix that for youthere and tack that time on and now
here's your new release date. Andthey added on another five years. So
(10:35):
he just went from three years toeight. And he has been screaming bloody
murder six. I mean, hehas just been pulling his hair out trying
to get somebody to listen to him. Because I want you to think about
this. I want you to justput yourself in this man's shoes for one
(11:00):
minute, close your eyes and justimagine with me for a second that you
are taken away from everything you knowand love your entire life. You are
picked up physically forcibly removed from whereveryou're at right now, put into a
(11:22):
very small, confined space with nocolor, no friends, no family,
no TV, no books, videogames, no members of the opposite sex
(11:48):
to go out on a date with. You got nothing, nothing, And
someone says to you, all right, you're gonna sit here for ten years.
If you're good, we'll give yousome privileges here and there. You
(12:09):
can get a TV, maybe youcan check some books out. Maybe your
friends and family can come see you. I don't know, we'll talk about
it. But you've got ten years. And after a time, you know
that first six months is probably thetoughest because your mind has been conditioned to
(12:35):
be on the outside to be ableto do those things. Now you have
to completely redo yourself all of thecoping mechanisms that you were using, be
it video games, be it alcohol, the drugs, even healthy ones like
(12:58):
maybe by jumping on your bicycle andriding for ten miles, jogging in the
morning, enjoying a cup of coffeeand doing some meditation. Nope, you've
got none of that. Nothing.You sit in the cell. You get
an hour a day, maybe dependingon if we have enough people, and
(13:18):
we'll let you outside in the cage. So now you've got to completely figure
out an entirely new system for yourlife from the ground up. You've got
to rebuild. And eventually, onceyou pass that six months, you say
(13:39):
to yourself, Okay, we're inhere. There's nothing I can do to
change this. Now. Let's justbuckle down and let's get through this time.
Nine and a half years left.Let's go. And you start doing
your time, and as you goalong, you notice the time seems to
(14:05):
be speeding up a little bit.It's moving pretty quickly. You look back
and you say, wow, andit's been two years already. I didn't
even seem that long. All right, I got eight more of these to
you. I didn't do that,or maybe you start to do what I
do, and you start to breakit down by mile markers, milestones.
(14:30):
My wife would come visit me everyweek, and I started breaking that down
by weeks, and I said,okay, so that's going to be and
I'm just making the number app Idon't remember what it was specifically. Once
she was able to come see me, I'm gonna say sixty. Okay,
sixty visits. That's all it is. We have sixty visits. And I
just started ticking them off, andevery time she came to see me,
(14:52):
I would mark one off. Fiftynine more visits. Here we go fifty
eight, and then the next thingI knew, I looked and I was
like, holy crap, I'm justpast thirty visits. Were halfway there.
And as you start to get closerto the end, you start to think,
Okay, I'm almost I'm almost done. I better start getting ready because
(15:16):
I'm going to be out soon.And you start preparing, and mentally you
start preparing yourself, and your mindstarts to realize, hey, we're gonna
be able to go back to someof those things that we've missed, and
you start you start to yearn forthem. You really really really start to
go, oh, man, Ican't wait to get a hamburger. I
(15:41):
can't wait to drink a beer,just the little things. I can't wait
to sit down and spend a couplehours playing video games. I haven't done
that in so long. And you'vegot it figured out. Mentally, you're
(16:02):
on the downhill slope. Now.You are ready, you are prepared,
You're buckled down. You're like,all right, man, this last couple
of years, this is gonna gofly by, let's do this. I'm
ready. And then someone comes backin and says, hey, I know
you're supposed to get out in twomore years, but we're just gonna go
ahead and make that seven more.Yeah we added five more. Sorry about
(16:22):
that, and just turns and walksoff. Now it's easy for me because
I've been there, but I wantyou to just try, just try and
imagine the mix of emotions that aregoing through you at that moment, all
(16:48):
at one time. They hit allat once, rage, frustration, stadness,
desperation, depression, panic, anxiety. Because now you feel like you're
(17:11):
right back where you were on dayone. Now you've got to completely rebuild
your system. You've got to startall over because you were you built that
small system for ten years and nowit's fifteen. Now you've got to start
over and you've got to redo it. And let me tell you what.
(17:37):
It's enough to break a man orwoman. It will break you and you
will come out of that with alot of issues. And where are you
(18:02):
supposed to direct these emotions. It'snot like you can pick up the phone
and call a bunch of people.It's not like you can invite everybody over
for a game night and have somepizza. It's not like you can go
out for a run. And I'mjust going back in a little bit.
I just need to get out fora while clear my head. That's not
how that works. You sit downand shut up. So let's let that
(18:27):
stew for a minute. We're atthe bottom of the hour. We're going
to take a break, and whenwe come back, I'll talk a little
bit more about this gentleman's case,some of the things that he's done,
what he's tried to do, andhow again, it's just not it's not
(18:52):
new, it's not unique. Staytuned. We will be right back after
the break. So we went tobreak. We left off with me having
you sit inside of a cell forseven years and then get another five years
(19:18):
dumped on top of your sentence.So now your ten years turns into fifteen
and you don't know what to dowith yourself. So there comes a point
then when you start to ask forhelp, and fortunately you know for all,
for all of the frustration and theissues with the system, I will
(19:42):
say, there is inside of therewith the other But the other inmates,
I hate to use that word inmates, because they're not inmates or just other
people. You develop this camaraderie withthem. At the end of the day,
we always used to say, we'reall wearing the same color. You
(20:07):
can sit there and complain about whatsomebody's in for, make somebody, make
fun of somebody for something they did, but at the end of the day,
in the eyes of the rest ofthe world, you're just as much
a pos as I am. Soit builds this this sense of camaraderie.
(20:30):
And when you see someone get wrongedlike that, people start to speak up
and they come to your side andthey go, hey, try talking to
this person. They might be ableto help, or hey, something like
that happened to me. Here's whatI did. Try reaching out to this
organization. And you go through thenormal channels, you reach out to the
(20:53):
ombudsman, who I mean, quitehonestly, I have no idea what the
ombudsman does, because it has gotto be the world's most worthless position my
opinion. I've never I've never heardof an ombudsman doing anything, never heard
of an ombudsman doing a damn thing. But you reach out to him,
(21:18):
you ask for help, and theycome back and tell you, you know
what we took a look at everything. Man, I understand that you're frustrated.
I really do. And you know, if I was in your situation,
i'd be I'd be pretty ticked offtoo. But yeah, that's not
(21:41):
going to happen. They can goin and they can do whatever they want
to you. So yeah, it'sfine. I mean, it sucks to
be you, but you'll be allright, don't worry about it. Okay,
what now what am I supposed todo with that? So now you've
(22:08):
got no idea what to do.You're stuck, You're locked up. Your
legal resource that's supposed to be thereto help you is gone. They're not
going to help you. So youreach out to some other nonprofit organizations.
(22:36):
You know, let's let's let's take, for example, let's take the ACLU.
They get a lot of press,everybody knows who the ACLU is,
the American Civil Liberties Union, Andthey come back and they tell you,
(23:03):
yeah, you know what, I'dreally love to help, but you don't
have enough time left for us tobe able to help you. So yeah,
we're going to just have to saysorry, there's not much we can
do, and good luck. Soyou reach out to some other organizations,
(23:26):
and they all tell you the samething. They say, Yeah, you
know, we'd love to be ableto help, but boy, there's just
so many of you and just notenough of us. Man, there's there's
nothing we can do. I'm reallysorry. We wish you the best luck,
though, So you reach out toanother organization, because I mean,
(23:56):
let's be realistic at this point,what have you got to lose? Mh.
And all you keep hearing is yeah, i'd be pretty ticked off too.
I understand i'd be mad. Butand there's nothing we can do to
help you. So sorry about that. You don't have the money for an
(24:23):
attorney because guess what you're inside.You can't go anywhere, you can't make
any money. You're stuck. Sowho are you going to ask for help?
(25:00):
What exactly are you going to beable to do? So you talk
to your friends and you know,hey, your friend just happened and knows
a guy who does a show.And that's how I ended up in the
(25:29):
middle of this. So yeah,this poor gentleman, this poor guy tried
everything he could think of, nothingnothing, nobody would help him. Nobody
would do anything for various reasons.And you know what, that's got to
(25:52):
be the most frustrating thing. Thinkabout it. How ticked off would you
be if everybody was like, yeah, you're right, but I'm sorry,
there's another I can do. Howfrustrating is that to know you're right,
but that sucks to be you sorry, because and let's be absolutely clear here,
(26:22):
they can do whatever the hell theywant to do to you because slavery
was not abolished, it was transferred, it was transformed, and it's still
(26:55):
used today as punishment for a crime. So anyone that's stuck inside right now,
according to the eyes of the wall, they are legally, legally a
slave, and there's nothing you cando about it. You know why,
(27:32):
because we let it happen. Weall let it happen. You and me,
we all did because it's right therein black and white. It's right
(27:57):
there. There's nothing we can do. And the funny thing is this part
(28:18):
cracks me up. I love thispart. Think about this for a second.
So when a judge does something wrong, when the judge says I'm going
to sentence you to this, butlegally they're not able to you know what
they do They come back and theyjust say, well, I mean the
(28:41):
judge has autonomy, So I mean, there's nothing realse you can do.
Sorry about that? I mean,shoot, my case, my judge was
just, I mean, flat outwrong. I think I've told this story
(29:03):
before, but man, I rememberI remember sitting there with my attorney after
I'd been sentenced. I've been therefor a week, and he came to
visit me, and I was like, what what the hell? Man like,
how could he do that? Andhe was like, I know you're
not gonna like this answer, butit's true. He was just wrong.
(29:23):
And I'm like, well, Imean, okay, that's great, but
what, like, what do youmean he's wrong? Is there anything I
can do? Can I appeal this? Can I do something? And he
said, well, because he sentencedyou to time that's within the statute.
There's nothing to you can do,never mind the fact that he just made
shit up to sentence me. Nothingyou can do because in that courtroom,
(30:00):
that judge is essentially God. Youdo not question their authority, you do
not question their judgment, and Godhelp you if you don't follow every order
that they give you, regardless ofif it's right or wrong, doesn't matter.
(30:22):
Do whatever they tell you to do, because in that courtroom. They
rule over everything, and it isextraordinarily difficult to hold them accountable for any
of their mistakes. You just can'tunless it is i mean, a gross
(30:53):
violation of the law. And eventhen you've got to have the right people
on your side, because when wetalk about the system, and specifically the
legal system, it's all politics.There are so much politics to it that
goes on it's just ridiculous. Sothis poor guy gets this ruling from the
(31:22):
judge, who in any other case, that judge is the law. That
judge has the final say in thatcourtroom, and there is nothing you can
do about it, whether you likeit or not. Tough, and they
(31:44):
come in seven years later and say, hey, he was wrong. We're
just gonna go ahead and fix thatfor him. Sorry about that, Have
a great day. Tell us howwe did on our survey. This is
(32:07):
this is what we've allowed ourselves tobecome in this country. Now, this
is this is who we are.We allow our fellow man and woman,
I say man in the generic term, we allow our fellow human beings to
(32:30):
be treated like slaves. And thathas been reinforced by the media and politicians
constantly barraged with news articles, newsstories, video clips, audio clips.
(32:55):
We need to be tough on crime, and all you ever hear in the
news is the stories of the onepercent. The one percent of these people
who are legitimately a hardened criminal,who are very far gone from humanity,
(33:21):
come back out in society and reoffend. It doesn't make them bad people,
means they need help. And justthe fact that you take people put them
into let's go, let's go nineteeneighty four, let's go, orwell for
(33:42):
a minute here, these are correctionalinstitutions. If there is ever an example
of double speak more blatant than that, I don't know it. Correctional institutions
suppose used to be there for correction, but we forgot to ask correction according
(34:08):
to whom? Like what are youtrying to correct? Because people go in
and they come out on the otherend worse for having gone through it.
I mean, I want you tojust stop and think right now of all
of the attention that's being placed onpeople and the stress that we are under
(34:32):
after three years of COVID and quietquitting, and nobody can find workers because
the workforce is burnt out, andnursing shortages because healthcare workers are burnt out
and food stabbing shortages because minimum wageworkers are burnt out and not making enough
(34:54):
money. You know, everything everywhere. Now, imagine if you tried to
go to someone and complain and say, hey, I don't think this is
right, and they just said tough, no therapy appointments, no paid time
(35:16):
off of work. Do you knowthat in California, if you're stressed,
you can go on paid leave indefinitelyin your employer has to pay you for
what could be the rest of yourlife because you're stressed. I wish,
(35:37):
I wish to god I was makingthat up now, not to say that
they aren't valid concerns, and thereare valid instances where someone may be mentally
in a position where they're unable towork, but then get some help and
(35:59):
get better. If it's been ayear and you're not getting better, maybe
you're not doing the right things.Maybe you need to look at changing it
up a little bit. But onthe inside, if you were to say,
(36:21):
man, I'm really stressed, Ican't go to work today, not
only would you not get paid forthat, you'd probably get written up and
potentially some of that time headed backonto your sentence because of that good time
wall because they dingle that carry overyour head and the carrot and the stick.
(36:42):
So you know, I had theopportunity to talk to this man and
listen to his story, and atone point in the conversation he stopped and
he just said, so what doyou think about all that? And I
said, man, I, firstof all, it sucks. I'm so
sorry that that happened to you.I mean, I don't know. I
(37:06):
don't know that I would have madethat. That would have broke me if
I would have been right there,right about to get out, right about
to see my kids and my familyagain. And I was right at the
finish line and someone said no,finish lines moved ten miles further. I
don't know that I can do it. I don't I don't want to know
if I could do it or not. But while I may, you know,
(37:37):
I may be empathized with you.I'm really sorry, man, but
your story is not unique. AndI don't say that to belittle you.
I don't say that to take anythingaway from you, or to say that
it's not a tragedy. But man, it happens all the time. It's
all the time. They get awaywith it. Because they can't. Because
(38:02):
when you've got someone who's inside ofa correctional institution otherwise known to the rest
of the world as a felon ora violent criminal or the dregs of society,
(38:23):
if someone from inside of a correctionalinstitution was to say, hey,
they just did this to me,society would say, good, you deserve
it. And they talk about iton the news, and they talk about
it on Fox, and they talkabout it on CNN, and maybe somebody
(38:45):
else would do a podcast about it, I don't know, and they all
talk about how well, we can'tlet people get away with this. We
have to teach them right from wrong. They have to learn from their mistakes.
They have to be consequented. Blahblah blah, blah, bruah blah.
Go down now, rabbit hole.You know, it's funny to be
able to spit all of that nonsenseout until you're on the receiving end of
(39:07):
it, and then the curtains arepulled back forcefully, very quickly, and
you very quickly learn, oh crap, everything I thought I knew was a
lie. So this gentleman, kudosto him. Man, he's got a
(39:32):
fortitude that I don't know that Iwould have, you know, the ability
to stand up in light of aninjustice like that. I don't know.
I couldn't do it, could you. I mean, think about it.
(39:53):
We get pissed off if we're shortagefifty bucks on our paycheck at the end
of the week. We call thatan injustice. Throw a fit, be
marching down into HR's office right away. It's excuse me, my paycheck is
wrong. Where's my fifty dollars?It took another five years of this man's
(40:15):
life. So what I'm going tosay at this point is get involved.
You know, I will never bethe one that tells you, oh,
you didn't go to the polls,but you need to do. The only
way to change is just to vote. I think the voting system and the
(40:36):
two party system is a croc.It's a croc. But what you can
do is you can start locally.You can go talk to your city council.
You can talk to your state senator, talk to your mayor, talk
to your talk to anybody that willlisten at a local level. If we
(40:57):
can start to change things lowly withinour direct community, eventually the system will
be replaced for a better system.I hope you have found value in tonight's
show. I hope that this spoketo you. I do not hope that
(41:22):
you are on the receiving end ofthis and that you're listening to this going
yeah, that happened to me too. If it does, man, I
am sorry to hear that. Kudosto you for having the strength. Don't
forget to check the website Surviving theSystem dot org, social media, Facebook
dot com, slash Surviving the Systemand on Twitter at STS the podcast.
(41:46):
Thank you for your time, Thankyou for your attention. Do you have
an idea for a story? Ifyou are the one that needs to tell
your story, If you went throughsomething similar and just could not get anybody
to listen and let me know,I would love to help to share your
story. As always, remember keepyour head up, don't let them get
(42:10):
you. It may be easy tolook at all the corruption and manipulation in
the system and feel hopeless. Hereat Surviving a System, we hold to
the belief that greatness is born inthe midst of extraordinary struggles. You were
created with a purpose, with infinitepotential, and many have lost sight of
that back We're here to remind youof who you are the best. Revenge
(42:32):
is success,
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