Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
The thirteenth Amendment to the United StatesConstitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude except as
a punishment for a crime. Everwondered how we ended up with the largest
prison population of any country. Haveyou noticed that those whose jobs it is
to protect and serve seem to bedemanding more and more blind obedient. You
didn't think it just happened by chance, did you. It's time to call
(00:23):
attention to the fact our government asthe most prolific slave owner on the planet.
This is surviving the system. Thankyou for joining me today on surviving
the system. This is Dance andDave and tonight. You know what,
I really have absolutely no idea whatI'm going to talk about again. There's
just so much going on at thispoint, not even just for a lack
(00:44):
of not even for a lack ofsubject matter, but there's just so much,
so much going on, I don'treally know where to start. So
I think I'm going to I'm goingto start by just sharing story. Again.
I had a good friend of minereached out to me and unfortunately he
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is struggling, you know, reallystruggling, and I need to I need
to talk about I need to talkabout him, and I need to talk
about his story a little bit becausehis is, to me, really one
of the more tragic that I cameacross, and yet at the same time
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one of the better success stories,so to speak. Hearing everything that this
man overcame to just even be wherehe's at right now, and I mean,
his journey is nowhere near done,but just to see where he's at
now, I mean, I don'tthink he understands how much I respect him
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for coming through what he's come through. So before we get into that,
we will go ahead and do ourcouple of quick housekeeping items. Don't forget
to check us out on social mediaat Facebook dot com slash Surviving the System
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and on Twitter at STS the Podcast. I would love to really get some
stories, really love to get somestories from everybody, just talking a little
bit about your experiences, what happenedto you, what happened to your loved
one. I know that there aretons of stories out there because I hear
(02:35):
from you folks all the time.Don't be afraid to step forward, Don't
don't be afraid to tell your story. There's a lot more people out there
that will support you than you probablyeven know and if nothing else, believe
me, it is it's a formof its own therapy. To just talk
(02:57):
about it, to talk about itin an on judgmental environment, just to
be able to tell your story,to have someone hear it and listen to
you. There's nothing like it,nothing like it. It's it's better than
it's better than any prescription antidepressant thatthey'll ever put you on. We are,
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also, of course on the web. We are on Facebook dot com,
slash Surviving the System, Twitter atSTS two podcast and the website is
Surviving the System dot org. Ihave a contact us page for both and
I would love to hear from you, even if it's just to drop me
(03:46):
a note, say hi, letme know what you think. Love to
hear from you, folks, Andif you haven't already, please do you
take some extra time to find theshow wherever you listen to podcasts, subscribe
to the show, leave me arating. Most importantly, share the show
(04:11):
with your community. You know,I'm I'm never going to be able to
get the reach that I need towithout your help. Google's not going to
give me any help with the algorithms. There's there's not a chance in hell
not a chance in hell. SoI really need your help, absolutely need
(04:31):
your help. And as always,before we get going, we're going to
start with a quick moment of gratitude. The gratitude just really helps us to
keep the vibration high, keep thatenergy high. And as we're going to
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be talking about some difficult subjects,especially tonight, you know this my friend's
story. As I said, it'sit's to ongoing. He's come through a
lot. It can really take youto dark places, and to keep it
from dragging us down, this willhelp. This allows us to delve into
these topics with with an air ofbeing productive and being constructive and trying to
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trying to find something good to comefrom this. So with that said,
I just want you to know thatI am I am so grateful to be
here with you allowing me to liveout my purpose to help to remind you
of who you really are. Itwasn't for you, I'd just be some
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dude sitting in the basement talking tothe cat. So thank you for helping
me to not be perceived as crazy. So when when I got to when
I got to occ And for thosethat may be new to the show or
new to anything related, to theNebraska Department of Corrections that stands for Omahaw
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Correctional Center. That was the loadof medium security prison facility here in Omaha,
Nebraska where I did the remaining elevenmonths of my sentence that they made
me do. Now, coming fromI had bounced around, man. I
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was in four different facilities in sixmonths. Board him and man, let
me tell you what, you haveno idea how difficult that is when you
can't ever get your feet underneath youand get settled. Right when you get
settled, get into a routine,you've got to support a group of people
around you. You've you've found yourtribe. Then okay, pack up,
get shit, let's go and ontothe next place. And that that's tough,
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and it is really tough to startover that many time and that short
of amount of a period in thattype of an environment. So I was
not happy to be coming to occat all. On the plus side,
you know, it was closer tohome, which meant my family would be
able to come and see me alittle bit easier. So that was a
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big plus. So when I gotthere, they've got to you've got to
go through intake and they've got toyou basically just sit there and wait for
them to figure out what they're goingto do with you, which takes a
while sometimes, So sitting there waiting, waiting and waiting and waiting, about
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half the day just waiting. Finallythey said, okay, this is your
room, this is where we're goingto take you. Let's go and they
walk you to the building. Theyshow you your room, syonara, see
you later, and out the doorthey go. And that's it. You're
on your own, and you gotto figure it all out. If you're
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fortunate and you have a good groupof people around you, they'll they'll clue
you in pretty quick. And Iwas very fortunate, very fortunate. First
person I met was Cliff. Cliffwalked in, Hey man, nice to
meet you, shook my hand,introduced himself. Super cool guy, really
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nice. He was always good tome. Next person that came in was
Jared Prince, who you if you'velistened to the show for any amount of
time. I've had him on multipletimes, multiple times. He and I
have become, i mean the bestof friends. At this point, well
he was he was my bunkie.He was on the bottom bunk I took
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the top. So He was nervousto see what kind of a person I
was, because you just never knowwho you're gonna get. You never know
who's coming through that door. Sometimesthey cycle through all the time. Sometimes
you get some crazies, Sometimes youget some people that you just don't get
along with, period. So weboth got lucky. We both got very
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fortunate. Third person that I woundup meeting was Bill. And Bill is
who I want to talk about tonightbecause Bill, Bill's not here to tell
his story right now. Bill doesn'tthink that Bill doesn't think that people care
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about his story, and I care, and that's why I'm going to talk
about it. So Bill came in. I was on the top bunk and
he was on the bunk directly acrossfrom me. So now to try to
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give yourself this visual, if youimagine walking into a room, there's eight
bunks, four bunk beds. Rightas you walk in, there's one to
your left, one do your right, go back a little further, there's
another one on the left against theback wall, and another one on the
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right against the back wall. Sotwo on this wall, two on the
other wall, two in the front, two in the back. If you're
still facing inside the room. Iwas in the back, left on the
top. Bill was in the backright on the top, right above Cliff.
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Bill came in shorter guy, bigcoke bottle glasses. I mean,
I mean big coke bottle glasses.I think if you've ever seen trailer Park
Boys pictures, picture bubbles, thosethose glasses. Bill's eyesight was very bad,
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so he had those glasses. Buthe walked in, introduced himself.
You know, if he needs something, let me know. Okay, it
didn't really quite know what to thinka Bill at that time yet, but
I know now why after everything he'sbeen through. But as that day went
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on, Bill Bill had been therefor a minute. He actually wound up
doing ten years total, ten years, so he was probably on year nine
by the time I got there.He was almost out, almost there.
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So he had his little setup andone of the things that he had done
he had a TV and the TVwould attach to the end of your bunk.
But because there were so many peoplein these rooms, you didn't have
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any you didn't have any audio.The only way that you could listen was
to plug in earbuds or a headset. Well, I just got there and
I just came from a dorm ofone hundred other people, ninety nine other
people. They didn't let us haveour own TVs there except too many people,
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and there was nowhere to put it. So I didn't have a TV
yet. I had a little radiothat was about it. Nothing else.
So Bill had his TV. Andwhat he had done is, over the
years he had collected extension cords.So had an extension cord that ran from
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his TV and it was taped upthe wall to the back, and then
he had another extension cord plugged intothat one to string it across the back
wall towards my bunk, and thenhe had one more extension cord to carry
it the rest of the way overto my bunk, right behind my head.
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So when you get ready to settledown for the evening and he turns
the TV on, he says,hey, if you've got like a pacit
of earbuds, just plug in youcan listen to whatever I'm watching. And
I was like, dude, that'sreally cool. Holy crap. He went
out of his way to just designthis contraption and collect extension chords, which
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remember, believe me, this isthis is outside in a prison yard.
Those are not easy to come by. It's not like being at home where
I can go upstairs and we've gotextension chords and we've got chargers, and
I mean we've got everything laying allover the place. These are these are
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not easy to find. So thistook him some time and some thought to
just string this around so I couldsit and watch TV and listen with him
until I got my own super cooland then he would also he could unplug
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it and he'd be like, Hey, I'm going to listen to this CD.
You want to listen, And hewould plug the CD player into that
jack and I could put my headphonesin and I could listen to whatever he's
listening to. Bill. Bill basicallyjust have this attitude of which mine is
yours. Let me know what elseyou need. And in that kind of
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an environment, again, I'd beenbounced all over the place, all over
the place, so coming into thisroom that was that was what I needed.
I needed that kind of support.And the thing of it is everybody
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inside needs that kind of support,whether they say it or not. And
Bill knew that he was just followinghis heart. The Really you can look
at it as the golden rule.Do unto others, is you would have
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them do unto you. And themore I got to know Bill realized he
had a little bit of an angercontrol problem too. He would get angry
over just the stupidest stuff. Notviolently angry, just really really pissed over
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just I mean, minor stuff,minor stuff. Sometimes it was kind of
funny to listen and get him allriled up, you know, But most
of the time we were like,Bill, calm down, man, it's
not that big of a deal.Relaxed, take a deep breath. It
was boy, it was easy toget him going, so easy to get
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him going. Bill worked in thelibrary with Jared, and I heard them
talking about it and asked if Icould get a job at the libraries,
did you guys need any help?Was well, he actually, we do.
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So wound up getting a job there, so I got to go to
work with Bill too. And Italk a lot about talk a lot about
Jared on this show because Jared andI, I mean, we spent most
of our time together. Literally Islept right above him for a year,
but the three of us were practicallyinseparable, you know. If I was
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if I wasn't with Jared, Iwas hanging out with Bill, and Bill
was the one that really helped tojust kind of show me the ropes.
And when I say show me theropes, I mean to show you what
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to do and what not to do, and when to do it and when
not to do it. Big misconceptionwith people about prison is that while it
is very heavily regulated, each facilitystill kind of has its own way of
doing things, but nobody ever tellsyou. And then you've got two layers
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of that. You've got the institutionsrules, and then you've got the inmates
rules. In the inmates rules arewhat you really need to pay attention to,
really need to pay attention to.And I mean it's something just as
simple as if you're not going toeat everything off your tray and somebody says,
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hey, can I have that?Well, yeah, sure, here,
I'm not going to eat it.That's cool. You have no idea
the level of complexity of social interactionsthat can potentially happen in that moment where
you could offend someone and piss themoff. If I wanted to say,
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yeah, go ahead, you cantake this. Well, first of all,
sellies, first, you always offerit to your cellies first, even
though it didn't ask. You haveto say no until you check with them
first. And then on top ofthat, don't touch it. Don't touch
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it like we out here think.If someone comes up, hey, can
you hand me that real quick?Yeah, here you go, and you
pick it up and you hand itto him. Nope, don't touch it.
If you're going to give someone somethingoff of your tray, even though
you put it there, don't pickit up and hand it to him.
It's insulting for whatever reason. Andthis wasn't at every facility. This was
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just particularly at this facility. AndI could keep going on and on again
about the social interactions. It's thestuff like that that I needed Bill for
because otherwise I'd piss off the wrongperson and god knows what would have happened.
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So as I spent more time inside, he got to hang out with
Bill, got to get him toopen up a little bit. He loved
to laugh, loved to laugh,good sense of humor. We joked around
all the time, all the time, sometimes at his expense. Because he
was he was pretty easy to pickon and get him riled up. Lopez
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gave everybody in the library a nickname. And Bills was steel Bill because Bill
came in ten years prior, ascrawny, sickly looking kid, and then
he hit the weight pile. Soby the time I got to meet him,
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he was jacked. He was justabsolutely lee jacked. So steal Bill
and I got to hang out quitea bit, and as you get to
know someone a little bit, youstart to open up and tell them your
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story. At times, nobody reallyasked why you in here? What are
you doing? The attitude was moreof, hey, we're all wearing the
same color, we're both in prison. It doesn't matter. Nobody's better than
the other. So I got toknow Bill's story a little bit more.
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And when we come back from thebreak, I'll tell you a little bit
about Bill's story and the heartbreak thatthis poor kid had to go through thanks
to the Department of Corrections. Staywith It'll be right back, Welcome back
to surviving this system. This isstill Dans and Dave. And if you
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are joining us live on Fringe FM, don't forget. You can call in
if you have questions or comments atone eight hundred and five eight eight zero
three three five eight hundred and fiveeight eight zero three three five. So
Bill pick up where we left off. Bill was incarcerated for how do I
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don't really even know the right rightway to say this, especially in this
in this day and age of metoo. This is something that gets so
overlooked. We don't have a termfor it, because I don't think anybody
wants to face this harsh truth.Bill went to a bar, met a
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woman. They went back to herplace, and then later he found out
that she was under age. Sheused a fake ID to get into the
club. The bouncer's checked her.I d let her in. Bill knew
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that being in this club you hadto be twenty one or older. So
as a reasonable human being, whatelse would you think? What else would
you think? So Bill? Herparents, the other the other party's parents,
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the female in this situation. Herparents decided to make an issue of
it and press charges. So Billwent away for all of his twenties.
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And if you know anything about physiologybiology, adolescence in humans and men and
women doesn't stop until age twenty five. So Bill was mean essentially raised in
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part by the Department of Correct Actions. And that happens to too many people.
And let me tell you what theyare not a good parent by any
sense of the imagination. If theDepartment of Corrections, and I don't even
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just mean Nebraska, if the Departmentof Corrections for pick a state in the
United States of America, if theDepartment of Corrections was an actual physical human
being, it was a person.The funny thing is the system wouldn't even
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let it take care of people becauseof the way that it treats people.
You've got CPS, which, believeme, I do not trust CPS.
That is a whole other issue.You can go all the way back to
my first year and listen to theinterview that I did with the gentleman whose
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daughter was just taken by CPS andthere was nothing he could do about it.
However, they do have a function, and in very very few cases
it is really to protect, toprotect the welfare of the child because they're
in a really crappy situation. Theirparents should not be in charge people.
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That is the Department of Corrections.The parent that gets their children taken away
from them because they're just downright abusive. They're a pos parent. That is
a Department of Corrections. That iswho helped to raise Bill for his twenties,
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As I mentioned before. When Billwent in, he was scrawny,
you know, maybe one hundred pounds, Soaken went and he's short, so
he was a little guy, andBill has anger issues. So Bill mouthed
awful lot. Bill got beat upa lot for the first majority of his
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stay, but he was targeted quitea bit. Once they figured out that,
you know, they could get him, they just kept coming back at
him. He did some time inthe hole, which the blessing in disguise
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there as it was a break forhim at least. The downside is if
you've if you've never looked at anyof the research of what complete and total
isolation does to a human being,I suggest you do so you understand what
you are allowing to happen to peoplewherever you're at, whatever state, whatever
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country you're in. Believe me,the prisons, the jails, the system.
They're putting people in isolation for whateverreason it might be. So Bill
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had a lot of psychological damage.The physical heals much faster than the emotional
and the mental. So that waswhy Bill started hitting the way pile,
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because he said, at this I'mnot going to let them do this to
me anymore. And he started doingsomething about it, so credit to him.
So by the time he got toocc and this is before I got
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there, But when he first gotthere, he was in the room next
to our room, and Jared wastelling me the story of how every night
when the lights went off he couldhear the guys in the room next door
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through the vents just beating the crapout of Bill every night, and it
pissed him off. So he wentto him and he said, just come
into our room. Our room.For whatever reason, we had a really
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good atmosphere in our room, andpeople that just that just wanted that peace
and quiet. They wanted that safety. They wanted to know that they could
come back at the end of theday to a place where they didn't have
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to watch their back, they didn'thave sleep deprivation because everybody was up all
night. So that was our room. So he told him, who don't
you just come in our room?And he did, obviously, or I
wouldn't have met him. So bythe time I got there to meet Bill,
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this was all of the backstory buildingup to the man that I met,
and a lot of it it madesense with just some of his mannerisms.
You know, you can if you'veif you've ever seen a dog that
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you you just know this dog hasbeen abused, it's been hit, Like
when you go to reach your handdown to pet them and they flinch back,
you just know that's that was kindof that was kind of Bill's attitude
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until you got to know him.You know, at first he was really
skittish of that hand being extended towardshim. But Bill and I got to
be, like I said, reallygood friends, really good friends. So
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I got home when I was letgo, I got home and I made
sure that I found Bill again.Bill had, just before I left,
went over to work release, sohe was on his way out. I
found out when his parole hearing was, and I went because I mean it
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was right after I got home,so I still didn't have a job yet,
I wasn't really doing anything, soI just I told my wife,
I'm gonna go. Bill needs methere, and so if nothing else,
man, it was cool to justhang out with him because if we hadn't
seen each other in a couple monthsby this point, you know, and
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he had all new stories to tellbecause he'd been at work release and he's
got a job now and he's tellingme all about how he rides his bike
to work and he's got money,and totally different for him ten years,
ten years, so to him thiswas all new. But he also never
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had that chance through his twenties tostart that, to start that habit of
being productive and getting a job andknowing what it's like to have the responsibility
of paying bills and to show upon time. So he was now having
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to learn all of this in hisearly thirties. Was really just to be
able to sit down and be like, dude, let me let me try
to help answer some of that foryou. Let me let me give you
some advice. So awesome, soawesome. His dad was there. I
got to meet his dad for thefirst time, so he had a couple
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of people there to show support.So we went into the parole hearing.
Now this it was bittersweet for mebecause this was the same parole board that
had denied me parole illegally and unlawfullyand made me do that seventeen months.
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So I wasn't really looking forward toseeing him because I still had some issues
I had to get over. Butthis was for Bill, so I could
put all of that aside for themoment, and man, you have no
idea what it was like to lookin the face of the lovely gentleman who
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was the cause of my parole beingdenied. Because no matter how many times
I tried to explain to him,I don't have enough time to complete that
program. You're telling me I needto do. Well, let's just give
it a shot. You just needto try. Okay, son of a
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bitch. Didn't even remember me.It didn't even remember me. And I
understand that they see a lot ofpeople on a regular basis. I get
that, but you know, man, it took every to everything in me
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to not come across that table andpunch this dude in the face when he
just looks up at us and he'slike, oh, it's great to see
he's got some support here. Thankyou for coming out and showing your support
today. I was like, dude, don't even talk to me. You
know what you did to me.Don't try this crap. Bill had enough
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of a vote majority vote to gethis parole, so he had to start
lining it up. His dad gavehim a place to stay. They got
that taken care of. He alreadyhad his job. There was a few
other hoops he had to jump through. But eventually he made it out and
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I brought him to my home,and of course he met my wife and
he sat. He sat in myliving room and let my girl sprayed his
hair. It was awesome just tobe able to give that to him,
you know. So fast forward acouple of years now. Bill struggled a
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lot, and he's still struggling rightnow. He finished his adolescence inside prison
getting his ass kicked. He didn'tknow what a healthy relationship looked like because
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he never had time to develop one. The last one night stand relationship he
had, the person lied about whoshe was and wound up ruining his life.
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So Bill, when he started justfacing the normal struggles of life that
we all face, he didn't knowwhat to do. He struggled to handle
it. You know, he turnedto alcohol. To my knowledge, I
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do not believe he has done drugs, but I could be wrong because I
haven't seen him in a couple ofyears. Anger issues. He introduced us
to a girl that he was datingat one point, and she told us
that his PTSD was it was offthe charts. You know. He never
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slept a full night. He'd wakeup screaming almost every night. Bill reached
out to me about a week ago, and just as the first I'd heard
from him in a couple of years. He just he fell off the face
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of the planet. And as muchas I love Bill, I mean he's
I can't. I can't do itfor him. I have to let him
figure stuff out. I have tolet him live his life, even if,
even if it pains me to watchhim going down this path of self
destruction, I can't stop him.I can't make him better. So I
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get this message from him, andhe just pours his heart out, just
pours his heart out. He's homeless, he's jobless. He basically thinks that
nobody cares about him because as he'sfacing these challenges, he lost his job.
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If it's me, I've talked aboutit on the show. I lost
my job five months ago. Youknow what I did. I gave a
big middle finger to him and Isaid, watch this, and I'm starting
my own business. Was it easy? Hell, noll, I have those
(40:28):
skills to be able to do that. Bill never developed those skills, because
remember he has he finished growing upwith that abusive parent who really should not
be allowed to have children. Butthey do, and instead of teaching him
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how to deal with life, justblocked him in the bedroom all the time
and beat him when they got outof line. So when Bill told me
this, you damn well better believethat I threw everything I had at him
because he asked for help, finallyasked for help. I put him in
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touch with as many people as Icould right away. And funny enough,
it's interesting how life comes together atcertain points. Because two of the people
from Rise, the organization that's helpedme through my tough times. You know,
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they work with in course or incarceratedand formally incarcerated people to really help
them, to teach those job readinessskills, entrepreneurial skills, and really just
to know that someone's there to helpyou through this. Two of the people
that work there, we were allinside with Bill. So I went to
him and I said, dude,Bill needs help. And they immediately were
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like, what do we need?What do we need to do? And
we got to work. So Bill'sgot a job. Now. Now we've
just got to work on the rest. Now we've got to work on the
clothes. We've got to work ona phone, we've got to work on
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a home. We've got to workon that most importantly, that community,
because this is what Bill learned frombeing inside the system. He learned that
nobody gives a crap about you.He learned that whatever bad happens, he
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probably deserves it. Bill did notlearn to fight through that, but he
is now, and that's what matters. Taking that first step and asking for
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help. As humiliating as it mighthave felt for him, it was such
a relief for me. You know, he may have thought that he was
bothering me. I'm really sorry todump this on you. Man. You
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don't ever apologize. They're coming tome. That's what That's what this community
is for. That's what I'm herefor, not just for Bill, but
for you to know that no matterhow dark it gets, how hopeless you
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may think it is, it's not. There is still someone out there.
There are people out there more thanyou know, that will move heaven and
earth to help you get back onyour feet and get moving all because we
(44:59):
all went through the system them together. It builds this camaraderie because nobody you
can't get it unless you've been there. Very similar to like the military,
you don't you don't get it.I've never been in the military, but
you know what, there's a lotof people in the military that have never
been in prison. And let metell you what, it's no joke mentally
(45:27):
that will challenge you like you've neverbeen challenged before. And I am so
I am so grateful to come outon the back end of that better for
having been through it. If Ihadn't gone through hell and back, I
wouldn't be here to help Bill.I want to thank you for your time.
(45:55):
I hope you have found value intonight's show. If you have,
please don't forget to drop me aline, shoot me a message. Most
importantly, share the show with yourcommunity. Let somebody else who needs to
hear this listen to it. Facebookdot com, slash Surviving the System on
(46:17):
Twitter at sts the podcast and Survivingthe System. Thank you again. Hope
to talk to you next week,and as always, remember keep your head
up, don't let them get you. It may be easy to look at
all the corruption and manipulation in thesystem and feel hopeless. Here at Surviving
(46:39):
the System, we hold to thebelief that greatness is born in the midst
of extraordinary struggles. You were createdwith a purpose, with infinite potential,
and many have lost sight of thatback We're here to remind you of who
you are. The best revenge,the success
The thirteenth Amendment to the United StatesConstitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude except as
a punishment for a crime. Everwondered how we ended up with the largest
prison population of any country. Haveyou noticed that those whose jobs it is
to protect and serve seem to bedemanding more and more blind obedient. You
didn't think it just happened by chance, did you. It's time to call
(00:23):
attention to the fact our government asthe most prolific slave owner on the planet.
This is surviving the system. Thankyou for joining me today on surviving
the system. This is Dance andDave and tonight. You know what,
I really have absolutely no idea whatI'm going to talk about again. There's
just so much going on at thispoint, not even just for a lack
(00:44):
of not even for a lack ofsubject matter, but there's just so much,
so much going on, I don'treally know where to start. So
I think I'm going to I'm goingto start by just sharing story. Again.
I had a good friend of minereached out to me and unfortunately he
(01:06):
is struggling, you know, reallystruggling, and I need to I need
to talk about I need to talkabout him, and I need to talk
about his story a little bit becausehis is, to me, really one
of the more tragic that I cameacross, and yet at the same time
(01:30):
one of the better success stories,so to speak. Hearing everything that this
man overcame to just even be wherehe's at right now, and I mean,
his journey is nowhere near done,but just to see where he's at
now, I mean, I don'tthink he understands how much I respect him
(01:53):
for coming through what he's come through. So before we get into that,
we will go ahead and do ourcouple of quick housekeeping items. Don't forget
to check us out on social mediaat Facebook dot com slash Surviving the System
(02:15):
and on Twitter at STS the Podcast. I would love to really get some
stories, really love to get somestories from everybody, just talking a little
bit about your experiences, what happenedto you, what happened to your loved
one. I know that there aretons of stories out there because I hear
(02:35):
from you folks all the time.Don't be afraid to step forward, Don't
don't be afraid to tell your story. There's a lot more people out there
that will support you than you probablyeven know and if nothing else, believe
me, it is it's a formof its own therapy. To just talk
(02:57):
about it, to talk about itin an on judgmental environment, just to
be able to tell your story,to have someone hear it and listen to
you. There's nothing like it,nothing like it. It's it's better than
it's better than any prescription antidepressant thatthey'll ever put you on. We are,
(03:23):
also, of course on the web. We are on Facebook dot com,
slash Surviving the System, Twitter atSTS two podcast and the website is
Surviving the System dot org. Ihave a contact us page for both and
I would love to hear from you, even if it's just to drop me
(03:46):
a note, say hi, letme know what you think. Love to
hear from you, folks, Andif you haven't already, please do you
take some extra time to find theshow wherever you listen to podcasts, subscribe
to the show, leave me arating. Most importantly, share the show
(04:11):
with your community. You know,I'm I'm never going to be able to
get the reach that I need towithout your help. Google's not going to
give me any help with the algorithms. There's there's not a chance in hell
not a chance in hell. SoI really need your help, absolutely need
(04:31):
your help. And as always,before we get going, we're going to
start with a quick moment of gratitude. The gratitude just really helps us to
keep the vibration high, keep thatenergy high. And as we're going to
(04:51):
be talking about some difficult subjects,especially tonight, you know this my friend's
story. As I said, it'sit's to ongoing. He's come through a
lot. It can really take youto dark places, and to keep it
from dragging us down, this willhelp. This allows us to delve into
these topics with with an air ofbeing productive and being constructive and trying to
(05:21):
trying to find something good to comefrom this. So with that said,
I just want you to know thatI am I am so grateful to be
here with you allowing me to liveout my purpose to help to remind you
of who you really are. Itwasn't for you, I'd just be some
(05:43):
dude sitting in the basement talking tothe cat. So thank you for helping
me to not be perceived as crazy. So when when I got to when
I got to occ And for thosethat may be new to the show or
new to anything related, to theNebraska Department of Corrections that stands for Omahaw
(06:08):
Correctional Center. That was the loadof medium security prison facility here in Omaha,
Nebraska where I did the remaining elevenmonths of my sentence that they made
me do. Now, coming fromI had bounced around, man. I
(06:33):
was in four different facilities in sixmonths. Board him and man, let
me tell you what, you haveno idea how difficult that is when you
can't ever get your feet underneath youand get settled. Right when you get
settled, get into a routine,you've got to support a group of people
around you. You've you've found yourtribe. Then okay, pack up,
get shit, let's go and ontothe next place. And that that's tough,
(06:56):
and it is really tough to startover that many time and that short
of amount of a period in thattype of an environment. So I was
not happy to be coming to occat all. On the plus side,
you know, it was closer tohome, which meant my family would be
able to come and see me alittle bit easier. So that was a
(07:18):
big plus. So when I gotthere, they've got to you've got to
go through intake and they've got toyou basically just sit there and wait for
them to figure out what they're goingto do with you, which takes a
while sometimes, So sitting there waiting, waiting and waiting and waiting, about
(07:41):
half the day just waiting. Finallythey said, okay, this is your
room, this is where we're goingto take you. Let's go and they
walk you to the building. Theyshow you your room, syonara, see
you later, and out the doorthey go. And that's it. You're
on your own, and you gotto figure it all out. If you're
(08:03):
fortunate and you have a good groupof people around you, they'll they'll clue
you in pretty quick. And Iwas very fortunate, very fortunate. First
person I met was Cliff. Cliffwalked in, Hey man, nice to
meet you, shook my hand,introduced himself. Super cool guy, really
(08:26):
nice. He was always good tome. Next person that came in was
Jared Prince, who you if you'velistened to the show for any amount of
time. I've had him on multipletimes, multiple times. He and I
have become, i mean the bestof friends. At this point, well
he was he was my bunkie.He was on the bottom bunk I took
(08:46):
the top. So He was nervousto see what kind of a person I
was, because you just never knowwho you're gonna get. You never know
who's coming through that door. Sometimesthey cycle through all the time. Sometimes
you get some crazies, Sometimes youget some people that you just don't get
along with, period. So weboth got lucky. We both got very
(09:07):
fortunate. Third person that I woundup meeting was Bill. And Bill is
who I want to talk about tonightbecause Bill, Bill's not here to tell
his story right now. Bill doesn'tthink that Bill doesn't think that people care
(09:33):
about his story, and I care, and that's why I'm going to talk
about it. So Bill came in. I was on the top bunk and
he was on the bunk directly acrossfrom me. So now to try to
(09:54):
give yourself this visual, if youimagine walking into a room, there's eight
bunks, four bunk beds. Rightas you walk in, there's one to
your left, one do your right, go back a little further, there's
another one on the left against theback wall, and another one on the
(10:15):
right against the back wall. Sotwo on this wall, two on the
other wall, two in the front, two in the back. If you're
still facing inside the room. Iwas in the back, left on the
top. Bill was in the backright on the top, right above Cliff.
(10:39):
Bill came in shorter guy, bigcoke bottle glasses. I mean,
I mean big coke bottle glasses.I think if you've ever seen trailer Park
Boys pictures, picture bubbles, thosethose glasses. Bill's eyesight was very bad,
(11:01):
so he had those glasses. Buthe walked in, introduced himself.
You know, if he needs something, let me know. Okay, it
didn't really quite know what to thinka Bill at that time yet, but
I know now why after everything he'sbeen through. But as that day went
(11:24):
on, Bill Bill had been therefor a minute. He actually wound up
doing ten years total, ten years, so he was probably on year nine
by the time I got there.He was almost out, almost there.
(11:46):
So he had his little setup andone of the things that he had done
he had a TV and the TVwould attach to the end of your bunk.
But because there were so many peoplein these rooms, you didn't have
(12:11):
any you didn't have any audio.The only way that you could listen was
to plug in earbuds or a headset. Well, I just got there and
I just came from a dorm ofone hundred other people, ninety nine other
people. They didn't let us haveour own TVs there except too many people,
(12:37):
and there was nowhere to put it. So I didn't have a TV
yet. I had a little radiothat was about it. Nothing else.
So Bill had his TV. Andwhat he had done is, over the
years he had collected extension cords.So had an extension cord that ran from
(13:03):
his TV and it was taped upthe wall to the back, and then
he had another extension cord plugged intothat one to string it across the back
wall towards my bunk, and thenhe had one more extension cord to carry
it the rest of the way overto my bunk, right behind my head.
(13:28):
So when you get ready to settledown for the evening and he turns
the TV on, he says,hey, if you've got like a pacit
of earbuds, just plug in youcan listen to whatever I'm watching. And
I was like, dude, that'sreally cool. Holy crap. He went
out of his way to just designthis contraption and collect extension chords, which
(13:54):
remember, believe me, this isthis is outside in a prison yard.
Those are not easy to come by. It's not like being at home where
I can go upstairs and we've gotextension chords and we've got chargers, and
I mean we've got everything laying allover the place. These are these are
(14:15):
not easy to find. So thistook him some time and some thought to
just string this around so I couldsit and watch TV and listen with him
until I got my own super cooland then he would also he could unplug
(14:35):
it and he'd be like, Hey, I'm going to listen to this CD.
You want to listen, And hewould plug the CD player into that
jack and I could put my headphonesin and I could listen to whatever he's
listening to. Bill. Bill basicallyjust have this attitude of which mine is
yours. Let me know what elseyou need. And in that kind of
(15:00):
an environment, again, I'd beenbounced all over the place, all over
the place, so coming into thisroom that was that was what I needed.
I needed that kind of support.And the thing of it is everybody
(15:22):
inside needs that kind of support,whether they say it or not. And
Bill knew that he was just followinghis heart. The Really you can look
at it as the golden rule.Do unto others, is you would have
(15:45):
them do unto you. And themore I got to know Bill realized he
had a little bit of an angercontrol problem too. He would get angry
over just the stupidest stuff. Notviolently angry, just really really pissed over
(16:12):
just I mean, minor stuff,minor stuff. Sometimes it was kind of
funny to listen and get him allriled up, you know, But most
of the time we were like,Bill, calm down, man, it's
not that big of a deal.Relaxed, take a deep breath. It
was boy, it was easy toget him going, so easy to get
(16:36):
him going. Bill worked in thelibrary with Jared, and I heard them
talking about it and asked if Icould get a job at the libraries,
did you guys need any help?Was well, he actually, we do.
(16:56):
So wound up getting a job there, so I got to go to
work with Bill too. And Italk a lot about talk a lot about
Jared on this show because Jared andI, I mean, we spent most
of our time together. Literally Islept right above him for a year,
but the three of us were practicallyinseparable, you know. If I was
(17:21):
if I wasn't with Jared, Iwas hanging out with Bill, and Bill
was the one that really helped tojust kind of show me the ropes.
And when I say show me theropes, I mean to show you what
(17:42):
to do and what not to do, and when to do it and when
not to do it. Big misconceptionwith people about prison is that while it
is very heavily regulated, each facilitystill kind of has its own way of
doing things, but nobody ever tellsyou. And then you've got two layers
(18:06):
of that. You've got the institutionsrules, and then you've got the inmates
rules. In the inmates rules arewhat you really need to pay attention to,
really need to pay attention to.And I mean it's something just as
simple as if you're not going toeat everything off your tray and somebody says,
(18:30):
hey, can I have that?Well, yeah, sure, here,
I'm not going to eat it.That's cool. You have no idea
the level of complexity of social interactionsthat can potentially happen in that moment where
you could offend someone and piss themoff. If I wanted to say,
(18:52):
yeah, go ahead, you cantake this. Well, first of all,
sellies, first, you always offerit to your cellies first, even
though it didn't ask. You haveto say no until you check with them
first. And then on top ofthat, don't touch it. Don't touch
(19:17):
it like we out here think.If someone comes up, hey, can
you hand me that real quick?Yeah, here you go, and you
pick it up and you hand itto him. Nope, don't touch it.
If you're going to give someone somethingoff of your tray, even though
you put it there, don't pickit up and hand it to him.
It's insulting for whatever reason. Andthis wasn't at every facility. This was
(19:40):
just particularly at this facility. AndI could keep going on and on again
about the social interactions. It's thestuff like that that I needed Bill for
because otherwise I'd piss off the wrongperson and god knows what would have happened.
(20:04):
So as I spent more time inside, he got to hang out with
Bill, got to get him toopen up a little bit. He loved
to laugh, loved to laugh,good sense of humor. We joked around
all the time, all the time, sometimes at his expense. Because he
was he was pretty easy to pickon and get him riled up. Lopez
(20:30):
gave everybody in the library a nickname. And Bills was steel Bill because Bill
came in ten years prior, ascrawny, sickly looking kid, and then
he hit the weight pile. Soby the time I got to meet him,
(20:55):
he was jacked. He was justabsolutely lee jacked. So steal Bill
and I got to hang out quitea bit, and as you get to
know someone a little bit, youstart to open up and tell them your
(21:17):
story. At times, nobody reallyasked why you in here? What are
you doing? The attitude was moreof, hey, we're all wearing the
same color, we're both in prison. It doesn't matter. Nobody's better than
the other. So I got toknow Bill's story a little bit more.
(21:44):
And when we come back from thebreak, I'll tell you a little bit
about Bill's story and the heartbreak thatthis poor kid had to go through thanks
to the Department of Corrections. Staywith It'll be right back, Welcome back
to surviving this system. This isstill Dans and Dave. And if you
(22:08):
are joining us live on Fringe FM, don't forget. You can call in
if you have questions or comments atone eight hundred and five eight eight zero
three three five eight hundred and fiveeight eight zero three three five. So
Bill pick up where we left off. Bill was incarcerated for how do I
(22:44):
don't really even know the right rightway to say this, especially in this
in this day and age of metoo. This is something that gets so
overlooked. We don't have a termfor it, because I don't think anybody
wants to face this harsh truth.Bill went to a bar, met a
(23:08):
woman. They went back to herplace, and then later he found out
that she was under age. Sheused a fake ID to get into the
club. The bouncer's checked her.I d let her in. Bill knew
(23:34):
that being in this club you hadto be twenty one or older. So
as a reasonable human being, whatelse would you think? What else would
you think? So Bill? Herparents, the other the other party's parents,
(24:07):
the female in this situation. Herparents decided to make an issue of
it and press charges. So Billwent away for all of his twenties.
(24:30):
And if you know anything about physiologybiology, adolescence in humans and men and
women doesn't stop until age twenty five. So Bill was mean essentially raised in
(24:57):
part by the Department of Correct Actions. And that happens to too many people.
And let me tell you what theyare not a good parent by any
sense of the imagination. If theDepartment of Corrections, and I don't even
(25:21):
just mean Nebraska, if the Departmentof Corrections for pick a state in the
United States of America, if theDepartment of Corrections was an actual physical human
being, it was a person.The funny thing is the system wouldn't even
(25:41):
let it take care of people becauseof the way that it treats people.
You've got CPS, which, believeme, I do not trust CPS.
That is a whole other issue.You can go all the way back to
my first year and listen to theinterview that I did with the gentleman whose
(26:02):
daughter was just taken by CPS andthere was nothing he could do about it.
However, they do have a function, and in very very few cases
it is really to protect, toprotect the welfare of the child because they're
in a really crappy situation. Theirparents should not be in charge people.
(26:26):
That is the Department of Corrections.The parent that gets their children taken away
from them because they're just downright abusive. They're a pos parent. That is
a Department of Corrections. That iswho helped to raise Bill for his twenties,
(26:51):
As I mentioned before. When Billwent in, he was scrawny,
you know, maybe one hundred pounds, Soaken went and he's short, so
he was a little guy, andBill has anger issues. So Bill mouthed
awful lot. Bill got beat upa lot for the first majority of his
(27:21):
stay, but he was targeted quitea bit. Once they figured out that,
you know, they could get him, they just kept coming back at
him. He did some time inthe hole, which the blessing in disguise
(27:51):
there as it was a break forhim at least. The downside is if
you've if you've never looked at anyof the research of what complete and total
isolation does to a human being,I suggest you do so you understand what
you are allowing to happen to peoplewherever you're at, whatever state, whatever
(28:22):
country you're in. Believe me,the prisons, the jails, the system.
They're putting people in isolation for whateverreason it might be. So Bill
(28:45):
had a lot of psychological damage.The physical heals much faster than the emotional
and the mental. So that waswhy Bill started hitting the way pile,
(29:07):
because he said, at this I'mnot going to let them do this to
me anymore. And he started doingsomething about it, so credit to him.
So by the time he got toocc and this is before I got
(29:29):
there, But when he first gotthere, he was in the room next
to our room, and Jared wastelling me the story of how every night
when the lights went off he couldhear the guys in the room next door
(29:52):
through the vents just beating the crapout of Bill every night, and it
pissed him off. So he wentto him and he said, just come
into our room. Our room.For whatever reason, we had a really
(30:22):
good atmosphere in our room, andpeople that just that just wanted that peace
and quiet. They wanted that safety. They wanted to know that they could
come back at the end of theday to a place where they didn't have
(30:45):
to watch their back, they didn'thave sleep deprivation because everybody was up all
night. So that was our room. So he told him, who don't
you just come in our room?And he did, obviously, or I
wouldn't have met him. So bythe time I got there to meet Bill,
(31:15):
this was all of the backstory buildingup to the man that I met,
and a lot of it it madesense with just some of his mannerisms.
You know, you can if you'veif you've ever seen a dog that
(31:36):
you you just know this dog hasbeen abused, it's been hit, Like
when you go to reach your handdown to pet them and they flinch back,
you just know that's that was kindof that was kind of Bill's attitude
(32:00):
until you got to know him.You know, at first he was really
skittish of that hand being extended towardshim. But Bill and I got to
be, like I said, reallygood friends, really good friends. So
(32:20):
I got home when I was letgo, I got home and I made
sure that I found Bill again.Bill had, just before I left,
went over to work release, sohe was on his way out. I
found out when his parole hearing was, and I went because I mean it
(32:46):
was right after I got home,so I still didn't have a job yet,
I wasn't really doing anything, soI just I told my wife,
I'm gonna go. Bill needs methere, and so if nothing else,
man, it was cool to justhang out with him because if we hadn't
seen each other in a couple monthsby this point, you know, and
(33:07):
he had all new stories to tellbecause he'd been at work release and he's
got a job now and he's tellingme all about how he rides his bike
to work and he's got money,and totally different for him ten years,
ten years, so to him thiswas all new. But he also never
(33:31):
had that chance through his twenties tostart that, to start that habit of
being productive and getting a job andknowing what it's like to have the responsibility
of paying bills and to show upon time. So he was now having
(33:52):
to learn all of this in hisearly thirties. Was really just to be
able to sit down and be like, dude, let me let me try
to help answer some of that foryou. Let me let me give you
some advice. So awesome, soawesome. His dad was there. I
got to meet his dad for thefirst time, so he had a couple
(34:15):
of people there to show support.So we went into the parole hearing.
Now this it was bittersweet for mebecause this was the same parole board that
had denied me parole illegally and unlawfullyand made me do that seventeen months.
(34:39):
So I wasn't really looking forward toseeing him because I still had some issues
I had to get over. Butthis was for Bill, so I could
put all of that aside for themoment, and man, you have no
idea what it was like to lookin the face of the lovely gentleman who
(35:14):
was the cause of my parole beingdenied. Because no matter how many times
I tried to explain to him,I don't have enough time to complete that
program. You're telling me I needto do. Well, let's just give
it a shot. You just needto try. Okay, son of a
(35:36):
bitch. Didn't even remember me.It didn't even remember me. And I
understand that they see a lot ofpeople on a regular basis. I get
that, but you know, man, it took every to everything in me
(35:58):
to not come across that table andpunch this dude in the face when he
just looks up at us and he'slike, oh, it's great to see
he's got some support here. Thankyou for coming out and showing your support
today. I was like, dude, don't even talk to me. You
know what you did to me.Don't try this crap. Bill had enough
(36:24):
of a vote majority vote to gethis parole, so he had to start
lining it up. His dad gavehim a place to stay. They got
that taken care of. He alreadyhad his job. There was a few
other hoops he had to jump through. But eventually he made it out and
(36:50):
I brought him to my home,and of course he met my wife and
he sat. He sat in myliving room and let my girl sprayed his
hair. It was awesome just tobe able to give that to him,
you know. So fast forward acouple of years now. Bill struggled a
(37:19):
lot, and he's still struggling rightnow. He finished his adolescence inside prison
getting his ass kicked. He didn'tknow what a healthy relationship looked like because
(37:44):
he never had time to develop one. The last one night stand relationship he
had, the person lied about whoshe was and wound up ruining his life.
(38:05):
So Bill, when he started justfacing the normal struggles of life that
we all face, he didn't knowwhat to do. He struggled to handle
it. You know, he turnedto alcohol. To my knowledge, I
(38:30):
do not believe he has done drugs, but I could be wrong because I
haven't seen him in a couple ofyears. Anger issues. He introduced us
to a girl that he was datingat one point, and she told us
that his PTSD was it was offthe charts. You know. He never
(38:52):
slept a full night. He'd wakeup screaming almost every night. Bill reached
out to me about a week ago, and just as the first I'd heard
from him in a couple of years. He just he fell off the face
(39:14):
of the planet. And as muchas I love Bill, I mean he's
I can't. I can't do itfor him. I have to let him
figure stuff out. I have tolet him live his life, even if,
even if it pains me to watchhim going down this path of self
destruction, I can't stop him.I can't make him better. So I
(39:43):
get this message from him, andhe just pours his heart out, just
pours his heart out. He's homeless, he's jobless. He basically thinks that
nobody cares about him because as he'sfacing these challenges, he lost his job.
(40:07):
If it's me, I've talked aboutit on the show. I lost
my job five months ago. Youknow what I did. I gave a
big middle finger to him and Isaid, watch this, and I'm starting
my own business. Was it easy? Hell, noll, I have those
(40:28):
skills to be able to do that. Bill never developed those skills, because
remember he has he finished growing upwith that abusive parent who really should not
be allowed to have children. Butthey do, and instead of teaching him
(40:58):
how to deal with life, justblocked him in the bedroom all the time
and beat him when they got outof line. So when Bill told me
this, you damn well better believethat I threw everything I had at him
because he asked for help, finallyasked for help. I put him in
(41:22):
touch with as many people as Icould right away. And funny enough,
it's interesting how life comes together atcertain points. Because two of the people
from Rise, the organization that's helpedme through my tough times. You know,
(41:49):
they work with in course or incarceratedand formally incarcerated people to really help
them, to teach those job readinessskills, entrepreneurial skills, and really just
to know that someone's there to helpyou through this. Two of the people
that work there, we were allinside with Bill. So I went to
him and I said, dude,Bill needs help. And they immediately were
(42:15):
like, what do we need?What do we need to do? And
we got to work. So Bill'sgot a job. Now. Now we've
just got to work on the rest. Now we've got to work on the
clothes. We've got to work ona phone, we've got to work on
(42:36):
a home. We've got to workon that most importantly, that community,
because this is what Bill learned frombeing inside the system. He learned that
nobody gives a crap about you.He learned that whatever bad happens, he
(43:06):
probably deserves it. Bill did notlearn to fight through that, but he
is now, and that's what matters. Taking that first step and asking for
(43:32):
help. As humiliating as it mighthave felt for him, it was such
a relief for me. You know, he may have thought that he was
bothering me. I'm really sorry todump this on you. Man. You
(43:52):
don't ever apologize. They're coming tome. That's what That's what this community
is for. That's what I'm herefor, not just for Bill, but
for you to know that no matterhow dark it gets, how hopeless you
(44:20):
may think it is, it's not. There is still someone out there.
There are people out there more thanyou know, that will move heaven and
earth to help you get back onyour feet and get moving all because we
(44:59):
all went through the system them together. It builds this camaraderie because nobody you
can't get it unless you've been there. Very similar to like the military,
you don't you don't get it.I've never been in the military, but
you know what, there's a lotof people in the military that have never
been in prison. And let metell you what, it's no joke mentally
(45:27):
that will challenge you like you've neverbeen challenged before. And I am so
I am so grateful to come outon the back end of that better for
having been through it. If Ihadn't gone through hell and back, I
wouldn't be here to help Bill.I want to thank you for your time.
(45:55):
I hope you have found value intonight's show. If you have,
please don't forget to drop me aline, shoot me a message. Most
importantly, share the show with yourcommunity. Let somebody else who needs to
hear this listen to it. Facebookdot com, slash Surviving the System on
(46:17):
Twitter at sts the podcast and Survivingthe System. Thank you again. Hope
to talk to you next week,and as always, remember keep your head
up, don't let them get you. It may be easy to look at
all the corruption and manipulation in thesystem and feel hopeless. Here at Surviving
(46:39):
the System, we hold to thebelief that greatness is born in the midst
of extraordinary struggles. You were createdwith a purpose, with infinite potential,
and many have lost sight of thatback We're here to remind you of who
you are. The best revenge,the success
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