May 16, 2024 • 23 mins
Today we're talking about a topic that everyone in our audience will certainly be familiar with.....And That. Is.
Heat. This weekend, New York Times bestselling author Jeff Goodell will be in town to discuss his book, The Heat Will Kill You First. The downtown main library will be hosting an interview with the author at 2 p. m. on Saturday, May 18th. This event is co-sponsored by the St. John's Riverkeeper and the Jacksonville Climate Coalition. It's free and open to the public.
So given that we have this high-profile author coming to town, we thought it would be good to talk about heat in Jacksonville. Those of you that have been with us for a while might remember that we talked about urban heat earlier this year with Dr. Adam Rosenblatt. If you missed it, it's worth a listen here.
Adam did a great job of explaining the science behind why areas such as downtown are up to 20 degrees hotter than areas like San Marco on any given day. Today, we're going to focus on the health impact of living in a hotter world, specifically in hotter cities. Jacksonville experienced record breaking heat last summer, and the trend is only going to continue over time.
So the question is: How do we protect ourselves and our neighbors in the face of this new normal? My guest today, Dr. Laureen Husband, is going to help us answer those questions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lori Ann Santamaria (00:00):
Welcome to Sustainable North Florida.
I'm your host, Laurie-AnneSantamaria.
Dr. Laureen Husband (00:06):
We often displace that to think about
hurricanes, but heat is thenumber one imminent danger to
Floridians right now that weneed to be thinking about that.
We need to ensure that we areresponding to.
Lori Ann Santamaria (00:21):
Hi and welcome to Sustainable North
Florida.
I'm your host, Lori AnnSantamaria, and today we're
talking about a topic thateveryone in our audience will
certainly be familiar with, andthat is heat.
This weekend, New York Timesbestselling author Jeff Goodell
will be in town to discuss hisbook The Heat Will Kill You
First.
The downtown main library willbe hosting an interview with the
(00:42):
author at 2 pm on Saturday, May18th, and the event is
co-sponsored by the St John'sRiverkeeper and the Jacksonville
Climate Coalition.
It's free and open to thepublic.
So, given that we have thishigh- profile author coming to
town, we thought it would begood to talk about heat in
Jacksonville.
Those of you that have been withus for a while might remember
that we talked about urban heatearlier this year with Dr Adam
(01:04):
Rosenblatt for a while mightremember that we talked about
urban heat earlier this yearwith Dr Adam Rosenblatt, and if
you missed it, it's worth alisten.
Adam did a great job ofexplaining the science behind
why areas such as downtown areup to 20 degrees hotter than
areas like San Marco on anygiven day.
Today, we're going to focus onthe health impact of living in a
hotter world, specifically inhotter cities.
Jacksonville experiencedrecord-breaking heat last summer
(01:25):
, and the trend is only going tocontinue over time.
So the question is how do weprotect ourselves and our
neighbors in the face of thisnew normal?
My guest today is going to helpus answer those questions and
more.
Dr Laureen Husband, welcome tothe show.
Thank you so much.
So, Dr.
Husband, you and I originallymet through our work at the
Jacksonville Climate Coalition,but you wear many, many hats
(01:47):
throughout the community.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your background?
Dr. Laureen Husband (01:51):
Yes, so I initially came to Jacksonville
as the director of HealthyJacksonville with the Florida
Department of Health in DuvalCounty and in that capacity I
was responsible for facilitatingcoalitions to address the
emerging problems around publichealth in our city and in our
(02:11):
state.
Lori Ann Santamaria (02:35):
I'm able to do population health type
interventions that address theroot causes of hunger, which is
mostly poverty and things likeincreasing urban heat and other
climate challenges that we'rehaving around the world.
So let's start with the fairquestion that many people have,
which is we live in Florida.
It's hot, it always has been.
What's the big deal?
We live?
Dr. Laureen Husband (02:44):
in Florida it's hot.
It always has been.
What's the big deal, though?
It's not just hot, it'sexponentially hot.
So, for example we've alreadyseen this is we're in the spring
season, so today is May 14th,but just last week we
experienced heat in.
I think it was 96 degreesFahrenheit was the predicted
heat was 96 degrees Fahrenheitwas the predicted heat, but
(03:07):
because of the high humiditythat we experienced in Florida,
temperatures felt like over 100degrees, and this is just the
spring.
So that is making a significantdifference to a lot of people,
most especially individuals whoare vulnerable, which includes
senior citizens, people withchronic conditions and children,
and then particularlyindividuals who do not have
(03:28):
adequate air conditioning orthey don't have any tree canopy
in their yards or on theirstreet.
For those people, what oncefelt like 100 degrees for some
of us probably felt like 110,117 degrees in some parts of our
communities.
Lori Ann Santamaria (03:45):
That's a really big difference when we
have these heat advisories thatcome through.
So all summer at Taba we getthese heat advisories
occasionally.
Is there a difference in typesof heat, or when should people
be looking out to protectthemselves?
Dr. Laureen Husband (03:58):
You know, for me the answer would be
lately.
It seems like you need to beprotecting yourself against heat
all year round in Florida.
But what I have particularlypaying attention to is the
persistent high nighttimetemperatures.
So it used to be that even ifwe saw 95 degree days, our
temperatures would dip duringthe night to be, you know, at
(04:20):
least to 60, 70 degreesFahrenheit, you know, at least
to 60, 70 degrees Fahrenheit.
But sometimes we're seeing thatthose temperatures, when they
are up to 95 or 100 degrees 104,those temperatures are only
going down maybe 10 degreeslower.
So our environment is not havingtime for respite, to cool down,
our homes are not cooling down,our sidewalks are not cooling
(04:42):
down and this continuousexposure to heat is preventing
our bodies from recovering.
It's preventing the plantsaround us from recovering.
It's actually killing a lot ofsmall vertebraes when there's
extended long sessions of heat.
So those persistent heats thatwe're seeing during the day and
the night, they're making itvery, very uncomfortable,
(05:05):
because at least we could counton nighttime for things to be a
little bit more comfortable.
But that's not happening lately.
Lori Ann Santamaria (05:14):
Yeah, I think that's a really important
point that not many people areaware of.
People tend to take a look atthe highest temperature
throughout the day, and whilethat is certainly dangerous from
a long-term perspective, reallyit's also important to see
what's happening at night inthat temperature gradient.
So while nighttime might becooler, if it's just a little
bit cooler, your body doesn'thave that chance to recover, and
then that chronic stress on thebody really makes an impact.
(05:35):
Can we talk a little bit aboutwhat happens to the body in
extreme heat?
What symptoms might somebodystart to realize?
Dr. Laureen Husband (05:42):
Um, dehydration is the first sign.
When you start to sweat, you'relosing a significant amount of
fluids from your body.
And then there's theelectrolyte imbalance Sweating
depletes the body's salts andminerals, which leads to a
disruption of your cellularfunctions and which also impairs
your muscles and your nerveactivity activity.
(06:07):
That's when you start feeling.
You know, after sweating on ahot day you might start feeling
confused.
Your body is cramping up, youfeel kind of disoriented and
that means you've already losttoo many electrolytes.
And then there's heatexhaustion and stroke.
So I think on any given day,once the temperatures go above
between 104 to 107, you are at ahigh risk of experiencing heat
(06:30):
exhaustion and stroke and youshould immediately try to go to
a place where your body can stopsweating and you can release
that heat by getting cooler.
Lori Ann Santamaria (06:47):
By getting cooler, you know, if you don't
have any air conditioning aroundyou, getting into a body of
water like a pool or jumpinginto a lake might help, yeah,
and so there are quite a fewthings there that you mentioned
that might be easier for somepeople than for others, right?
So certainly, as we mentionedearlier in the show, there's
potentially a 20 degreedifference in temperatures in
various neighborhoods throughoutthe community.
So some potentially a 20 degreedifference in temperatures in
various neighborhoods throughoutthe community.
So some neighborhoods arehotter and actually in those
(07:10):
neighborhoods that are hotteryou have people that might also
be more vulnerable to heat.
And what you just mentioned,you know, going into AC, hopping
into a pool.
That might not be easy forthese folks.
Dr. Laureen Husband (07:20):
Yeah, for most of our communities the tree
canopy has been destroyed overtime.
The first place I actuallynoticed the urban heat effect
was early on in the 1990s when Ifirst visited Houston, and
Houston is a huge city that hasvery little.
(07:40):
You know, downtown Houston usedto have very little tree canopy
and they're working to remedythat.
But similarly the downtownJacksonville does not have a lot
of tree canopy.
But if you visit our historicalcommunities like San Marco,
riverside, springfield,alhondale, you start to see more
tree canopy.
But as you go into our lowincome areas and places where
(08:04):
you know our new developmentsare coming, the tree canopy is
not as present and actuallypeople tend to cut down the
trees because of misinformationaround hurricane prevention,
windstorm damage protections andnot understanding that actually
that may seem like the solutionbut it's actually making things
(08:27):
worse Because as you reduceyour tree canopy you actually
allow for that wind to comethrough your neighborhood and
decimate anything that'sstanding, because trees usually
act as a buffer.
But not only do they act as abuffer, but they also help to
reduce the heat.
Think of you walking down asidewalk in a neighborhood that
(08:48):
has trees during the heat ofsummer versus walking down in a
neighborhood that has no treesthe one that has no trees you
get direct penetration to yourskull, direct sun rays hitting
your skull, and in places whereyou have a huge tree canopy
those rays are buffered.
You have a layer of interventionbefore that heat hits your skin
(09:12):
and therefore it feels muchless so.
Low-income neighborhoods, likeI just stated, tend to have less
tree canopy and I know that wehave a targeted strategy that
will be coming in place for thecity of Jacksonville to increase
tree canopy in everyneighborhood, but first starting
(09:33):
with our low income areas,where those trees have been
decimated, and then there's theaction of groups in our historic
neighborhoods, neighborhoods.
So you have all theseresident-led initiatives where
residents work to protectespecially old trees, because
(09:59):
those provide the most effectivetree canopy in terms of
protections for residents andprotections for houses, homes
for birds and other creatures.
So, folks in those historicneighborhoods, they're organized
enough that they ensure that ifthere's a development coming,
they are in place to make surethat those developers are having
to go through all the differentlegal avenues before they are
(10:21):
allowed to cut a tree down, andthat's the difference.
Lori Ann Santamaria (10:24):
So that's interesting to know that those
different groups are doing thatin Jacksonville.
You mentioned the city first,so who is doing that?
Dr. Laureen Husband (10:30):
So yes, there's Green Scape.
Jacksonville, I think, isleading the charge to improve
the tree canopy in Jacksonville.
Quantifying that in our citylaws is important because then
it will ensure that over timeit's not something that we just
do during one administration,but it's something that will be
(10:51):
done by residents ofJacksonville over time, unless
that law, or whatever thestrategy, is no longer adopted,
which I don't see happening.
Lori Ann Santamaria (11:01):
So making sure that we have enough trees
and the right kinds of treesright, Not palm trees and things
that are not going to provide alot of shade, but making sure
that we have enough trees andthe right kinds of trees right,
not not palm trees and thingsthat are not going to provide a
lot of shade, but making surethat we have the right trees in
the right places.
That's certainly going to helpus in the future.
But how do we deal with thehere and now for people that are
exposed to this urban heat?
What city resources areavailable or what neighborhood
resources are available to them?
Dr. Laureen Husband (11:23):
Yeah, so just last summer we had the
first opportunity to demonstratewhat air conditioning as spaces
for residents to go to and mostneighborhoods are.
(11:55):
Almost every neighborhood inJacksonville is within a few
miles of a library or acommunity center, so ensuring
that people have those resourcesavailable, and I think there's
also talk about maybe utilizingsome of the assets that JTA has
for folks who may not haveopportunities to go to a library
(12:16):
or community center.
If we have JTA buses that areoperating and those buses are
fully air-conditioned, why can'twe also use those spaces during
extreme heat events?
I know the city is working onpublic awareness programs.
So is the Department of Healthto educate people, and this is a
statement that I've heard Anne,our chief resiliency officer,
(12:39):
say that heat actually is themost dangerous thing that we
have to deal with in Florida,and we often displace that to
think about hurricanes, but heatis the number one imminent
danger to Floridians right nowthat we need to be thinking
about that.
We need to ensure that we areresponding to.
(13:00):
And then the other strategy ishealthcare services Having our
physicians, our clinical centers, our health departments,
clinics, etc.
Educating our health caregiversabout the different conditions
that get exacerbated by heat,for example, upper respiratory
conditions, chronic conditionsall get exacerbated by heat.
(13:24):
Stroke-type symptoms in bothelders and children also get
exacerbated.
So educating the population aswell as educating our healthcare
services to know to look forthose symptoms, with people
coming in that the conditionsthey might be presenting might
be related to heat, is somethingelse that's happening.
(13:46):
And then there'scommunity-based programs that
non-profits such as ours areconsidering, which is ensuring
that we're providing access toour air-conditioned spaces.
So we were just talking aboutour new facility that will be
opening on the north side.
So we'll definitely beconsidering how do we utilize
(14:07):
our asset for our neighborsaround us who may not have air
conditioning, that they can comeduring the day and get some
respite, as well as havinghydration stations all around
the city of Jacksonville.
You know that's something wehaven't talked about, but I
would love to see more hydrationstations around the city of
Jacksonville in differentneighborhoods for folks to be.
(14:30):
You know, as we're encouragingpeople to participate in walks,
physical activity, also knowingwhere your hydration stations
are.
If we could have some hydrationstations around the Emerald
Trail, that would be fantastic,because going on a long you know
bike ride or long run withoutknowing where your water is.
It's kind of scary as wecontinue to get warmer and
(14:53):
warmer in our state.
Lori Ann Santamaria (14:54):
Yeah, all of that makes a lot of sense.
So when we talk aboutvulnerable populations, Lorene,
one thing that comes to mind, orat least to my mind, is people
that work outside, so peoplethat might be in construction
roofing, certainly agriculturalworkers If their job requires
them to be in the heat.
How can these people protectthemselves, and are there
regulations in place?
Dr. Laureen Husband (15:15):
So those have been reduced through the
state, and so now workers haveto be really intentional.
I would encourage you knoweverybody to ensure that you
have a water source on your bodyIf you're going to be working
outside.
If you're not able to takethose water breaks, ensuring
that you cover your head with ahat, maybe having a mister to
(15:39):
keep your body cooled, if at allpossible.
Wearing some clothing with sunprotection already as part of it
and those cool wicking fabricsso that you're not retaining
heat but you're able to releaseheat and sweat is able to
evaporate and not be retained inyour clothes.
Lori Ann Santamaria (15:57):
So, to clarify, I believe that the
legislation that was passed atthe state level was specifically
preventing local governmentsfrom passing ordinances that
would protect worker safety withrespect to heat, and so,
basically, what that does is itputs the onus on individual
employers.
So hopefully, you work for anemployer that's taking care of
(16:19):
those issues.
If not, then personally takingresponsibility for it as much as
you can, as you mentioned, Ithink will be important.
You can, as you mentioned, Ithink will be important but I
think we also do need toencourage our local employers to
be thinking about their workersthat they have out, you know,
out in the field, on rooftops,things like that, to make sure
that they're giving theirworkers the appropriate breaks,
making sure that they're stayinghydrated, all of those things
(16:40):
that you mentioned.
I think it should be incumbentupon employers to be doing that
as well.
Yes, I agree, thank you.
Okay, lorene, you run the DuvalCounty Food Policy Council and I
know you like to remind us allthe time, and I think you're
completely correct, thateverything is connected.
So how does climate change ingeneral, and maybe urban heat
specifically, how does thatconnect to our food system?
Dr. Laureen Husband (17:02):
So, for one , we just talked about worker
safety.
Most farm workers are at highrisk of heat-related illnesses,
which can lead to serious healthoutcomes and affect their
ability to work, and we justtalked about worker safety
protections.
So now you are leaving it up toindividual employers to
implement those safetyprotections, and farm workers
(17:26):
are really at a disadvantagebecause they're one of the
lowest paid groups.
And, you know, I question ifemployers, in this case, whether
it's corporate farmers orindividual farmers if they're
already paying their workers avery minimal fee for their labor
, I somewhat I am what is theword Maybe skeptical.
(17:51):
I am very skeptical whetherthey will improve worker safety
measures for their employees,because we have been working
really hard to increase how muchfarm workers are paid.
The other part is cropproductions Because of the high
temperatures that we'recurrently experiencing in
Florida.
We have noticed that those hightemperatures are stressing
(18:15):
plants, they are reducing yields, they are affecting the quality
of produce, thereby impactingfood security and prices.
And, to be honest, we're havingto look at especially during,
you know, late spring, all theway to the middle of the fall,
we're having to look atalternative crops that we can
grow in Florida, because some ofthe traditional crops that we
(18:37):
have relied on to feed ourpopulation.
The higher heat are posing achallenge to their growth and
therefore we may not be relyingon them to feed our populations.
We'll have to adjust the kindof crops we're growing based on
what we have seen, the evidencearound the world, what crops are
(18:57):
doing well, you know highyielding crops around the globe
based on heat.
So the other part is economicimpact.
When you lose crops for farmers, that's financial stability.
When you lose crops for farmers, that's financial stability.
So if they're not able to makethe money because the heat
conditions are too high, then weend up seeing more farmers
(19:18):
actually in our food lines,which I tell people.
It's really not funny that thepeople who are growing us food
are also people who are relyingon our food lines to feed their
families because their foodproduction has gone drastically
much lower than they used to tobe competitive.
Lori Ann Santamaria (19:40):
That's really a sobering thought that
the people that are producingour food are standing in food
lines.
That's really.
I guess it makes sense.
It's just, it's really.
Yeah.
So this has been a pretty heavytopic, I think you know climate
change in general is a while.
Dr. Laureen Husband (19:51):
I'm excited about having an actual plan
(20:13):
around putting tree canopy, youknow, like the tree of
Jacksonville becoming a thing,and ensuring that we're looking
back to history to help dictatewhat types of trees native trees
were here before we startedgrowing ornamental trees,
because we know the native floraand fauna that existed had gone
(20:34):
through the stress of time toensure that it was the right
type of canopy for our world.
And as long as we go back tothose strategies, I can see we
will actually be making a change.
And I grew up in a very smalltown in Kenya and during the
time I was growing up I watchedmy community as it adopted
(20:57):
Western modes of agriculture,start to experience a lot of
erosion and they cut down treesand we started seeing some of
the same conditions we're seeingnow.
And it took one woman her nameis Professor Wangari Madai who
started the Treeing of Kenya andcharged every woman and child
(21:17):
to plant at least 10 trees ayear.
In our village and within a10-year span of leaving my
country and going back Lorien, Iwas able to see places that
used to be environmental galleys, where water was just sliding
down the mountains and down thevalley.
When I came back, it was thisbeautiful, lush environment full
(21:40):
of trees, where people hadmanaged to figure out how to
grow food alongside treesinstead of taking down the trees
, recognizing the important rolethat trees play in our
environment and also recognizingthe personal responsibilities
that we all have to take care ofthe earth in our daily living
(22:01):
and living alongside the earthas a partner and not as
something we need to conquer.
Lori Ann Santamaria (22:06):
Oh, wow.
Thank you, lorraine.
That's a beautiful story and Ireally cannot think of a better
note to end this episode on.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
If you're in town this Saturday, may 18, please come check out
the live interview with JeffGoodell.
The author of the Heat WillKill you First, as we get ready
for the summer heat, theJacksonville Climate Coalition
will be posting informationabout what you can do to protect
(22:28):
yourself and your loved ones.
You can check us out atwwwjaxclimateorg.
Here's today's one good thing.
This week, the Federal EnergyRegulatory Commission, also
known as FERC, issued a sweepingreform to transmission grid
planning.
According to the SouthernAlliance for Clean Energy,
that's a big deal for theSoutheast.
(22:49):
The measure will requireregional utilities to improve
their ability to connect toclean energy resources at the
pace required to decarbonize theelectricity sector.
Welcome to Sustainable North Florida.
I'm your host, Laurie-AnneSantamaria.
Dr. Laureen Husband (00:06):
We often displace that to think about
hurricanes, but heat is thenumber one imminent danger to
Floridians right now that weneed to be thinking about that.
We need to ensure that we areresponding to.
Lori Ann Santamaria (00:21):
Hi and welcome to Sustainable North
Florida.
I'm your host, Lori AnnSantamaria, and today we're
talking about a topic thateveryone in our audience will
certainly be familiar with, andthat is heat.
This weekend, New York Timesbestselling author Jeff Goodell
will be in town to discuss hisbook The Heat Will Kill You
First.
The downtown main library willbe hosting an interview with the
(00:42):
author at 2 pm on Saturday, May18th, and the event is
co-sponsored by the St John'sRiverkeeper and the Jacksonville
Climate Coalition.
It's free and open to thepublic.
So, given that we have thishigh- profile author coming to
town, we thought it would begood to talk about heat in
Jacksonville.
Those of you that have been withus for a while might remember
that we talked about urban heatearlier this year with Dr Adam
(01:04):
Rosenblatt for a while mightremember that we talked about
urban heat earlier this yearwith Dr Adam Rosenblatt, and if
you missed it, it's worth alisten.
Adam did a great job ofexplaining the science behind
why areas such as downtown areup to 20 degrees hotter than
areas like San Marco on anygiven day.
Today, we're going to focus onthe health impact of living in a
hotter world, specifically inhotter cities.
Jacksonville experiencedrecord-breaking heat last summer
(01:25):
, and the trend is only going tocontinue over time.
So the question is how do weprotect ourselves and our
neighbors in the face of thisnew normal?
My guest today is going to helpus answer those questions and
more.
Dr Laureen Husband, welcome tothe show.
Thank you so much.
So, Dr.
Husband, you and I originallymet through our work at the
Jacksonville Climate Coalition,but you wear many, many hats
(01:47):
throughout the community.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your background?
Dr. Laureen Husband (01:51):
Yes, so I initially came to Jacksonville
as the director of HealthyJacksonville with the Florida
Department of Health in DuvalCounty and in that capacity I
was responsible for facilitatingcoalitions to address the
emerging problems around publichealth in our city and in our
(02:11):
state.
Lori Ann Santamaria (02:35):
I'm able to do population health type
interventions that address theroot causes of hunger, which is
mostly poverty and things likeincreasing urban heat and other
climate challenges that we'rehaving around the world.
So let's start with the fairquestion that many people have,
which is we live in Florida.
It's hot, it always has been.
What's the big deal?
We live?
Dr. Laureen Husband (02:44):
in Florida it's hot.
It always has been.
What's the big deal, though?
It's not just hot, it'sexponentially hot.
So, for example we've alreadyseen this is we're in the spring
season, so today is May 14th,but just last week we
experienced heat in.
I think it was 96 degreesFahrenheit was the predicted
heat was 96 degrees Fahrenheitwas the predicted heat, but
(03:07):
because of the high humiditythat we experienced in Florida,
temperatures felt like over 100degrees, and this is just the
spring.
So that is making a significantdifference to a lot of people,
most especially individuals whoare vulnerable, which includes
senior citizens, people withchronic conditions and children,
and then particularlyindividuals who do not have
(03:28):
adequate air conditioning orthey don't have any tree canopy
in their yards or on theirstreet.
For those people, what oncefelt like 100 degrees for some
of us probably felt like 110,117 degrees in some parts of our
communities.
Lori Ann Santamaria (03:45):
That's a really big difference when we
have these heat advisories thatcome through.
So all summer at Taba we getthese heat advisories
occasionally.
Is there a difference in typesof heat, or when should people
be looking out to protectthemselves?
Dr. Laureen Husband (03:58):
You know, for me the answer would be
lately.
It seems like you need to beprotecting yourself against heat
all year round in Florida.
But what I have particularlypaying attention to is the
persistent high nighttimetemperatures.
So it used to be that even ifwe saw 95 degree days, our
temperatures would dip duringthe night to be, you know, at
(04:20):
least to 60, 70 degreesFahrenheit, you know, at least
to 60, 70 degrees Fahrenheit.
But sometimes we're seeing thatthose temperatures, when they
are up to 95 or 100 degrees 104,those temperatures are only
going down maybe 10 degreeslower.
So our environment is not havingtime for respite, to cool down,
our homes are not cooling down,our sidewalks are not cooling
(04:42):
down and this continuousexposure to heat is preventing
our bodies from recovering.
It's preventing the plantsaround us from recovering.
It's actually killing a lot ofsmall vertebraes when there's
extended long sessions of heat.
So those persistent heats thatwe're seeing during the day and
the night, they're making itvery, very uncomfortable,
(05:05):
because at least we could counton nighttime for things to be a
little bit more comfortable.
But that's not happening lately.
Lori Ann Santamaria (05:14):
Yeah, I think that's a really important
point that not many people areaware of.
People tend to take a look atthe highest temperature
throughout the day, and whilethat is certainly dangerous from
a long-term perspective, reallyit's also important to see
what's happening at night inthat temperature gradient.
So while nighttime might becooler, if it's just a little
bit cooler, your body doesn'thave that chance to recover, and
then that chronic stress on thebody really makes an impact.
(05:35):
Can we talk a little bit aboutwhat happens to the body in
extreme heat?
What symptoms might somebodystart to realize?
Dr. Laureen Husband (05:42):
Um, dehydration is the first sign.
When you start to sweat, you'relosing a significant amount of
fluids from your body.
And then there's theelectrolyte imbalance Sweating
depletes the body's salts andminerals, which leads to a
disruption of your cellularfunctions and which also impairs
your muscles and your nerveactivity activity.
(06:07):
That's when you start feeling.
You know, after sweating on ahot day you might start feeling
confused.
Your body is cramping up, youfeel kind of disoriented and
that means you've already losttoo many electrolytes.
And then there's heatexhaustion and stroke.
So I think on any given day,once the temperatures go above
between 104 to 107, you are at ahigh risk of experiencing heat
(06:30):
exhaustion and stroke and youshould immediately try to go to
a place where your body can stopsweating and you can release
that heat by getting cooler.
Lori Ann Santamaria (06:47):
By getting cooler, you know, if you don't
have any air conditioning aroundyou, getting into a body of
water like a pool or jumpinginto a lake might help, yeah,
and so there are quite a fewthings there that you mentioned
that might be easier for somepeople than for others, right?
So certainly, as we mentionedearlier in the show, there's
potentially a 20 degreedifference in temperatures in
various neighborhoods throughoutthe community.
So some potentially a 20 degreedifference in temperatures in
various neighborhoods throughoutthe community.
So some neighborhoods arehotter and actually in those
(07:10):
neighborhoods that are hotteryou have people that might also
be more vulnerable to heat.
And what you just mentioned,you know, going into AC, hopping
into a pool.
That might not be easy forthese folks.
Dr. Laureen Husband (07:20):
Yeah, for most of our communities the tree
canopy has been destroyed overtime.
The first place I actuallynoticed the urban heat effect
was early on in the 1990s when Ifirst visited Houston, and
Houston is a huge city that hasvery little.
(07:40):
You know, downtown Houston usedto have very little tree canopy
and they're working to remedythat.
But similarly the downtownJacksonville does not have a lot
of tree canopy.
But if you visit our historicalcommunities like San Marco,
riverside, springfield,alhondale, you start to see more
tree canopy.
But as you go into our lowincome areas and places where
(08:04):
you know our new developmentsare coming, the tree canopy is
not as present and actuallypeople tend to cut down the
trees because of misinformationaround hurricane prevention,
windstorm damage protections andnot understanding that actually
that may seem like the solutionbut it's actually making things
(08:27):
worse Because as you reduceyour tree canopy you actually
allow for that wind to comethrough your neighborhood and
decimate anything that'sstanding, because trees usually
act as a buffer.
But not only do they act as abuffer, but they also help to
reduce the heat.
Think of you walking down asidewalk in a neighborhood that
(08:48):
has trees during the heat ofsummer versus walking down in a
neighborhood that has no treesthe one that has no trees you
get direct penetration to yourskull, direct sun rays hitting
your skull, and in places whereyou have a huge tree canopy
those rays are buffered.
You have a layer of interventionbefore that heat hits your skin
(09:12):
and therefore it feels muchless so.
Low-income neighborhoods, likeI just stated, tend to have less
tree canopy and I know that wehave a targeted strategy that
will be coming in place for thecity of Jacksonville to increase
tree canopy in everyneighborhood, but first starting
(09:33):
with our low income areas,where those trees have been
decimated, and then there's theaction of groups in our historic
neighborhoods, neighborhoods.
So you have all theseresident-led initiatives where
residents work to protectespecially old trees, because
(09:59):
those provide the most effectivetree canopy in terms of
protections for residents andprotections for houses, homes
for birds and other creatures.
So, folks in those historicneighborhoods, they're organized
enough that they ensure that ifthere's a development coming,
they are in place to make surethat those developers are having
to go through all the differentlegal avenues before they are
(10:21):
allowed to cut a tree down, andthat's the difference.
Lori Ann Santamaria (10:24):
So that's interesting to know that those
different groups are doing thatin Jacksonville.
You mentioned the city first,so who is doing that?
Dr. Laureen Husband (10:30):
So yes, there's Green Scape.
Jacksonville, I think, isleading the charge to improve
the tree canopy in Jacksonville.
Quantifying that in our citylaws is important because then
it will ensure that over timeit's not something that we just
do during one administration,but it's something that will be
(10:51):
done by residents ofJacksonville over time, unless
that law, or whatever thestrategy, is no longer adopted,
which I don't see happening.
Lori Ann Santamaria (11:01):
So making sure that we have enough trees
and the right kinds of treesright, Not palm trees and things
that are not going to provide alot of shade, but making sure
that we have enough trees andthe right kinds of trees right,
not not palm trees and thingsthat are not going to provide a
lot of shade, but making surethat we have the right trees in
the right places.
That's certainly going to helpus in the future.
But how do we deal with thehere and now for people that are
exposed to this urban heat?
What city resources areavailable or what neighborhood
resources are available to them?
Dr. Laureen Husband (11:23):
Yeah, so just last summer we had the
first opportunity to demonstratewhat air conditioning as spaces
for residents to go to and mostneighborhoods are.
(11:55):
Almost every neighborhood inJacksonville is within a few
miles of a library or acommunity center, so ensuring
that people have those resourcesavailable, and I think there's
also talk about maybe utilizingsome of the assets that JTA has
for folks who may not haveopportunities to go to a library
(12:16):
or community center.
If we have JTA buses that areoperating and those buses are
fully air-conditioned, why can'twe also use those spaces during
extreme heat events?
I know the city is working onpublic awareness programs.
So is the Department of Healthto educate people, and this is a
statement that I've heard Anne,our chief resiliency officer,
(12:39):
say that heat actually is themost dangerous thing that we
have to deal with in Florida,and we often displace that to
think about hurricanes, but heatis the number one imminent
danger to Floridians right nowthat we need to be thinking
about that.
We need to ensure that we areresponding to.
(13:00):
And then the other strategy ishealthcare services Having our
physicians, our clinical centers, our health departments,
clinics, etc.
Educating our health caregiversabout the different conditions
that get exacerbated by heat,for example, upper respiratory
conditions, chronic conditionsall get exacerbated by heat.
(13:24):
Stroke-type symptoms in bothelders and children also get
exacerbated.
So educating the population aswell as educating our healthcare
services to know to look forthose symptoms, with people
coming in that the conditionsthey might be presenting might
be related to heat, is somethingelse that's happening.
(13:46):
And then there'scommunity-based programs that
non-profits such as ours areconsidering, which is ensuring
that we're providing access toour air-conditioned spaces.
So we were just talking aboutour new facility that will be
opening on the north side.
So we'll definitely beconsidering how do we utilize
(14:07):
our asset for our neighborsaround us who may not have air
conditioning, that they can comeduring the day and get some
respite, as well as havinghydration stations all around
the city of Jacksonville.
You know that's something wehaven't talked about, but I
would love to see more hydrationstations around the city of
Jacksonville in differentneighborhoods for folks to be.
(14:30):
You know, as we're encouragingpeople to participate in walks,
physical activity, also knowingwhere your hydration stations
are.
If we could have some hydrationstations around the Emerald
Trail, that would be fantastic,because going on a long you know
bike ride or long run withoutknowing where your water is.
It's kind of scary as wecontinue to get warmer and
(14:53):
warmer in our state.
Lori Ann Santamaria (14:54):
Yeah, all of that makes a lot of sense.
So when we talk aboutvulnerable populations, Lorene,
one thing that comes to mind, orat least to my mind, is people
that work outside, so peoplethat might be in construction
roofing, certainly agriculturalworkers If their job requires
them to be in the heat.
How can these people protectthemselves, and are there
regulations in place?
Dr. Laureen Husband (15:15):
So those have been reduced through the
state, and so now workers haveto be really intentional.
I would encourage you knoweverybody to ensure that you
have a water source on your bodyIf you're going to be working
outside.
If you're not able to takethose water breaks, ensuring
that you cover your head with ahat, maybe having a mister to
(15:39):
keep your body cooled, if at allpossible.
Wearing some clothing with sunprotection already as part of it
and those cool wicking fabricsso that you're not retaining
heat but you're able to releaseheat and sweat is able to
evaporate and not be retained inyour clothes.
Lori Ann Santamaria (15:57):
So, to clarify, I believe that the
legislation that was passed atthe state level was specifically
preventing local governmentsfrom passing ordinances that
would protect worker safety withrespect to heat, and so,
basically, what that does is itputs the onus on individual
employers.
So hopefully, you work for anemployer that's taking care of
(16:19):
those issues.
If not, then personally takingresponsibility for it as much as
you can, as you mentioned, Ithink will be important.
You can, as you mentioned, Ithink will be important but I
think we also do need toencourage our local employers to
be thinking about their workersthat they have out, you know,
out in the field, on rooftops,things like that, to make sure
that they're giving theirworkers the appropriate breaks,
making sure that they're stayinghydrated, all of those things
(16:40):
that you mentioned.
I think it should be incumbentupon employers to be doing that
as well.
Yes, I agree, thank you.
Okay, lorene, you run the DuvalCounty Food Policy Council and I
know you like to remind us allthe time, and I think you're
completely correct, thateverything is connected.
So how does climate change ingeneral, and maybe urban heat
specifically, how does thatconnect to our food system?
Dr. Laureen Husband (17:02):
So, for one , we just talked about worker
safety.
Most farm workers are at highrisk of heat-related illnesses,
which can lead to serious healthoutcomes and affect their
ability to work, and we justtalked about worker safety
protections.
So now you are leaving it up toindividual employers to
implement those safetyprotections, and farm workers
(17:26):
are really at a disadvantagebecause they're one of the
lowest paid groups.
And, you know, I question ifemployers, in this case, whether
it's corporate farmers orindividual farmers if they're
already paying their workers avery minimal fee for their labor
, I somewhat I am what is theword Maybe skeptical.
(17:51):
I am very skeptical whetherthey will improve worker safety
measures for their employees,because we have been working
really hard to increase how muchfarm workers are paid.
The other part is cropproductions Because of the high
temperatures that we'recurrently experiencing in
Florida.
We have noticed that those hightemperatures are stressing
(18:15):
plants, they are reducing yields, they are affecting the quality
of produce, thereby impactingfood security and prices.
And, to be honest, we're havingto look at especially during,
you know, late spring, all theway to the middle of the fall,
we're having to look atalternative crops that we can
grow in Florida, because some ofthe traditional crops that we
(18:37):
have relied on to feed ourpopulation.
The higher heat are posing achallenge to their growth and
therefore we may not be relyingon them to feed our populations.
We'll have to adjust the kindof crops we're growing based on
what we have seen, the evidencearound the world, what crops are
(18:57):
doing well, you know highyielding crops around the globe
based on heat.
So the other part is economicimpact.
When you lose crops for farmers, that's financial stability.
When you lose crops for farmers, that's financial stability.
So if they're not able to makethe money because the heat
conditions are too high, then weend up seeing more farmers
(19:18):
actually in our food lines,which I tell people.
It's really not funny that thepeople who are growing us food
are also people who are relyingon our food lines to feed their
families because their foodproduction has gone drastically
much lower than they used to tobe competitive.
Lori Ann Santamaria (19:40):
That's really a sobering thought that
the people that are producingour food are standing in food
lines.
That's really.
I guess it makes sense.
It's just, it's really.
Yeah.
So this has been a pretty heavytopic, I think you know climate
change in general is a while.
Dr. Laureen Husband (19:51):
I'm excited about having an actual plan
(20:13):
around putting tree canopy, youknow, like the tree of
Jacksonville becoming a thing,and ensuring that we're looking
back to history to help dictatewhat types of trees native trees
were here before we startedgrowing ornamental trees,
because we know the native floraand fauna that existed had gone
(20:34):
through the stress of time toensure that it was the right
type of canopy for our world.
And as long as we go back tothose strategies, I can see we
will actually be making a change.
And I grew up in a very smalltown in Kenya and during the
time I was growing up I watchedmy community as it adopted
(20:57):
Western modes of agriculture,start to experience a lot of
erosion and they cut down treesand we started seeing some of
the same conditions we're seeingnow.
And it took one woman her nameis Professor Wangari Madai who
started the Treeing of Kenya andcharged every woman and child
(21:17):
to plant at least 10 trees ayear.
In our village and within a10-year span of leaving my
country and going back Lorien, Iwas able to see places that
used to be environmental galleys, where water was just sliding
down the mountains and down thevalley.
When I came back, it was thisbeautiful, lush environment full
(21:40):
of trees, where people hadmanaged to figure out how to
grow food alongside treesinstead of taking down the trees
, recognizing the important rolethat trees play in our
environment and also recognizingthe personal responsibilities
that we all have to take care ofthe earth in our daily living
(22:01):
and living alongside the earthas a partner and not as
something we need to conquer.
Lori Ann Santamaria (22:06):
Oh, wow.
Thank you, lorraine.
That's a beautiful story and Ireally cannot think of a better
note to end this episode on.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
If you're in town this Saturday, may 18, please come check out
the live interview with JeffGoodell.
The author of the Heat WillKill you First, as we get ready
for the summer heat, theJacksonville Climate Coalition
will be posting informationabout what you can do to protect
(22:28):
yourself and your loved ones.
You can check us out atwwwjaxclimateorg.
Here's today's one good thing.
This week, the Federal EnergyRegulatory Commission, also
known as FERC, issued a sweepingreform to transmission grid
planning.
According to the SouthernAlliance for Clean Energy,
that's a big deal for theSoutheast.
(22:49):
The measure will requireregional utilities to improve
their ability to connect toclean energy resources at the
pace required to decarbonize theelectricity sector.
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