May 2, 2024 • 24 mins
Our guest today is Dr. Logan Cross, who leads Renew Jax.
Renew Jax is a campaign to get the City of Jackonsville, FL to commit to running on 100% clean energy by 2050. This might seem like a tall order, but it is one within reach. In fact, 13 other cities in the state of Florida have already committed to running on 100% clean energy by 2050 or earlier!
Join us as we learn about what it will take for Jacksonville to make the shift - including what we need from JEA, our mayor, our city council members and - most importantly - our citizens.
RESOURCES:
New Power Generation Sources in 2024 (hint: gas is only 4%!!)
Jacksonville Climate Coalition
Renew Jax Campaign
Sierra Club of Northeast Florida
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Sustainable North Florida.
I'm your host, Laurie-AnneSantamaria.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Going with renewable energy is not any longer going
to translate to higher energycosts toward the customer.
That was true 10 to 15 yearsago.
It's no longer true.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hi and welcome to Sustainable North Florida.
I'm your host, laurie-anneSantamaria, on the show today.
We'll be talking about whatit'll take to transition
Jacksonville.
Hi and welcome to SustainableNorth Florida.
I'm your host, laurieannSantamaria, on the show today.
We'll be talking about whatit'll take to transition
Jacksonville to renewable energy.
My guest today is Logan Cross.
Logan is the head of theJacksonville chapter of the
Sierra Club.
He's also leading a campaigncalled Renew Jax, whose aim is
to get the city of Jacksonvilleto commit to 100% clean and
(00:41):
renewable energy by 2050.
I expect this to be a livelydiscussion.
That's pretty safe anytime onesits down with Logan Logan.
Welcome to Sustainable NorthFlorida.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, thank you, Lori , for having me.
I'm looking forward todiscussing these topics.
They're very interesting to meand very important.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Thank you.
So before we get into renewableenergy, can you start with your
background and how you came tolead the Sierra Club and the
Renew Jax campaign?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Well, my career was largely in higher education and
I worked at one of the localuniversities Jacksonville
University and myresponsibilities focused on
strategic planning and researchand effectiveness, and research
(01:27):
and effectiveness.
And while working atJacksonville University, I
started participating in theSierra Club on a more active
level and I started out as whatis called an outings leader.
I would lead outings into ournatural areas in the region, but
eventually took on a leadershiprole, became the chair of our
Sierra Club group in this region, which includes Duval County,
(01:49):
st John's County and NorthernClay County.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I think most people listening to the show already
understand that the emission ofcarbon dioxide and other
greenhouse gases is what'sresponsible for climate change.
As a baseline, can you give usan idea of Jacksonville's
current greenhouse gas emissions?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
If you lump together or Duval County all of the other
industry emissions in 2021,that includes industries like
Anheuser-Busch, the packagingplants or the cardboard
producing plants, cmc, metal allof them if you lump them
together in Duval County, theyaccounted in 2021 for 9% of the
(02:29):
greenhouse gas emissions.
That means that JEA aloneaccounted for 91% of the
greenhouse gas emissions by whatare called large facilities in
the region.
If we really want to lessenJacksonville's carbon footprint,
one of the first places you'vegot to start is JEA, and that's
(02:51):
why a lot of our efforts focuson the Jacksonville Electric
Authority, which is the utilitythat serves this area.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Do you have a sense for what JEA is reporting for
their total greenhouse gasemissions In?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
2020, jea accounted for over 7 million tons of
greenhouse gas emissions.
That's in total for all theirpower plants.
The next year, in 2021, thatwent down to between 5 and 6
million tons of greenhouse gasemissions.
(03:25):
So JEA made some improvementsand they should receive credit
for that.
Let's say, of that 5 to 6million tons of greenhouse gas
emitted by JEA, almost half ofthem were emitted by one plant,
one plant alone.
It is the remaining coal-firedpower plant in their portfolio.
(03:46):
So that just shows you howoutsized the amount of pollution
created by a coal-fired plantis.
And I think you're seeing thatthroughout the energy industry.
Even Florida Power and Lighthas almost all of its coal-fired
plants on a trajectory wherethey'll eventually be taken out
(04:07):
of operation.
So that's why we are sopersistent in our pressuring JEA
to decommission the NorthsideGenerating Station by 2040.
I can almost guarantee youthey'd end up doing it sooner
than that.
Can almost guarantee you thatend up doing it sooner than that
, because they're going to findthat it costs more to operate
(04:28):
the plant than the value that itbrings in their energy
generation.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So, logan, I would like to start talking about the
Renew JAX campaign, and I knowthe Northside Generating Station
is part of that.
Before we do talk about it,though, I think it's fair to
share with the listeners that Iam the current chair of the
Jacksonville Climate Coalition,and the Climate Coalition has
signed on as an officialsupporter of the Renew Jax
campaign.
So with that disclosure, logan,can you give us an overview of
Renew Jax?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yes, and I appreciate the opportunity to do this.
And we call it RenewJacksonville campaign because,
of course, as the name implies,it focuses on a large portion on
renewable energy.
But it'll go a long way towardsrenewing Jacksonville's image
in the region, the state and theworld, because historically,
(05:18):
jacksonville has not beencharacterized as one of the more
forward-thinking cities in thestate or even in the region.
We think that if our city madesuch a commitment, it would
signal to the outside world thatour city is embracing its role
in reducing carbon emissions andaddressing climate change.
(05:40):
What we're asking the city todo is to commit to operate on
100% renewable energy by 2050 orsooner.
Now, normally that would be abig ask here in Jacksonville,
but 13 other cities in the stateof Florida have already made
that commitment to be on 100%renewable energy by 2050 or
(06:04):
sooner.
Some of them Tampa and Sarasotahave made a much earlier date
and for many things in ourcampaign we've used Orlando kind
of as our template.
Orlando has its own municipalutility, just like Jacksonville
does.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So, Logan, can you talk about that?
I think it's important forpeople to understand the
difference between aninvestor-owned utility and
aowned utility.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So it is one where you can buy shares in Florida
(06:50):
Power and Light, and so it is,in certain ways, under the sway
of its board of directors andits shareholders.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And it's a for-profit entity.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Right and it is for-profit, and so it's driven
by a different set of standardsthan a municipal utility.
Anybody who's living inJacksonville is essentially, in
a way, a partial owner of JEA,because it is our municipal
utility.
So JEA and its functioning isvery important to the city, and
(07:24):
so what we really want JEA is tosignal to us as ratepayers and
to our city leaders that it hasa vision for eventually becoming
a source of clean energy cityto commit to operate on 100%
(07:51):
renewable energy by 25th year.
Sooner.
It cannot do that unless JEAmakes a similar commitment.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
One of the things to borrow one of your terms that I
think is really head-scratchingis the new natural gas plant
that they have in their plansand part of the reason why, if
you look at I'll include this inthe show notes there's data
from the US Energy InformationAdministration, so that's not
any type of politicalorganization which talks about
the new US grid capacity in 2024.
(08:17):
So these are new powergeneration sources that are
coming online in 2024.
And it's only 4% from gas.
Gas is just 4%, which is really.
It's really hard to understandwhy we would be putting a new
natural gas plant when the restof the country is not doing that
.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
That's an excellent point, because that's what makes
their reliance on that hitscratching.
Because that's not the trend.
It doesn't reflect the trend inthe energy industry.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Because that's not the trend.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It doesn't reflect the trend in the energy industry
and that's just from aneconomic standpoint, because the
reason that the rest of thecountry is making that switch is
because new power generation isless expensive with with
renewable sources, and that thatis why it's so perplexing when
you provide those kind of datato the JA board and to the JEA
leadership.
They just seemed to ignore it.
(09:11):
We started our effort of tryingto pressure JEA back when it
was developing this integratedresource plan.
That's a fairly recentdevelopment and it took a full
year to develop that plan, andwe the Sierra Club, the
Riverkeeper and otherorganizations were included in
(09:32):
what's called a stakeholderadvisory committee and at that
time our ask of JEA was to be atleast at 30% renewable energy
by 2030.
Our other ask of them was thatthey set a timeline for
decommissioning their north sidegenerating station, and our
(09:55):
recommendation was 2030.
They refused to do that.
But now to other things that weasked for, which I think it's
important for your listeners toknow as part of the campaign is
we asked JEA to make rooftopsolar at least 5% of their
energy generation portfolio.
(10:16):
It would allow them to achievewhat's closer to a distributed
energy model Conceivably.
They could do like other citiesand start trying to design what
are called community microgrids.
It would be kind of like acommunity let's say Riverside
and Avondale might be on theirown kind of grid and they would
(10:39):
have to add energy storage therein the community so that some
of that energy that wasgenerated by their rooftop solar
would be stored in batterysystems where it could be
retrieved later.
That would make that communitymore resilient during extreme
weather.
If the rest of the power gridwent down, that community could
(11:04):
continue to function on theirstored energy.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, I think there are a lot of co-benefits when
you start looking at microgridsor having distributed energy.
As you mentioned, resilience iscertainly one of them.
If you have a hurricane orsevere weather come through, if
you're on microgrids indifferent parts of the city
might not be impacted.
The other thing that's reallyimportant is transmission.
About 40% of electricity islost over this transmission line
(11:27):
, so if you do something that'sdistributed format and you're
producing the energy closer towhere it's being used, then
that's actually way more energyefficient.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yes, yes, excellent point.
The longer your transmissionlines are for transporting your
energy, there's a loss duringthat transmission process.
Energy there's a loss duringthat transmission process and if
you do it more locally, thenyou're cutting down that
(11:57):
transmission loss and you'remaking the community as more
resilient.
Jea years ago stopped payingwhat was called net metering
rate for the amount of energythat a homeowner maybe puts in
the grid.
So they're being compensatedless than the state norm.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, look, logan.
I think that's a reallyimportant point.
In my own personal experience,when I first moved to my new
home, I looked at getting solaron my rooftop and I had several
people come out and I got quotesand when I sat down it just
really was cost prohibitive andI thought to myself wow, this is
the sunshine state, why is itnot working?
And when I travel I go to Tampa, I go to Orlando, I go to Miami
(12:32):
you see these solarinstallation vans everywhere and
they're not in Jacksonville.
And it wasn't until I starteddigging further into the policy
to understand why.
I mean, there's a very realeconomic reason for that and
that's because FPL and Dukeactually are required to do net
metering.
Basically, what that means forthe listeners is that in most of
the rest of the state they havewhat's called one-to-one, so I
have my solar system on my roof.
(12:53):
If there's an excess, I'mproducing more electricity
through my solar system in theday than I can use.
When I sell it back to the gridother parts of the state you
receive the same amount that youpay.
So the price per kilowatt houris the same whether it's coming
in or out, and in JEA it's notthe case.
(13:15):
So you might pay.
You know, say I don't know whatit is right now say 14 cents
per kilowatt hour, you might pay, and then if you give
electricity back to the grid,you're only getting a third of
that, and so that is why it'sreally hard for solar to be cost
effective for homeowners here.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
To Laurieann, your point.
When they stopped paying netmetering rate, it really slowed
down homeowners adding rooftopsolar in this region.
They did the math just like youdid, and so we're behind other
cities, and that's all due topolicy by JEA.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, so I think in this conversation we've got a
good understanding of wherewe're at right now with respect
to carbon emissions and howpower generation relates to that
.
In Jacksonville, what can ourlisteners do?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Well, one of the things is getting informed.
Also, you can spread the wordamong your friends, your
relatives.
When you consider a candidatefor office, ask them where do
they stand on things likeclimate change and renewable
energy type things, becauseeventually the city is going to
have to decide now where itwants to go with this.
(14:24):
And then the other thing theycan do you could get involved
with campaigns like RenewJacksonville campaign or you can
start going to JEA boardmeetings.
Jea boards is a body created toprovide oversight for JEA.
(14:44):
They have a public commentperiod where you can go and
speak.
And it's amazing that when wefirst started going and speaking
to the JEA board I mean we werea complete novelty they had not
had people showing up andtalking during the public
comment period.
Jea, when it was created, hadthe mission or purpose statement
(15:09):
to provide affordable andreliable electricity.
Nothing was said about how thatelectricity is generated.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, I think, logan.
I think that's a really goodpoint, and I have heard you
speaking in the community atother events, you know making
that same point.
So there are a lot of reallygood people at JEA that are
doing exactly what the missionis asking of them, and I think
that it's up to us as citizensand as taxpayers and as
ratepayers, to be pushing at thecity level for that mission to
(15:42):
change.
Can I make?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
another point, lorraine, that I think is
important is you've got a mayornow in this city who is very pro
addressing climate change andcarbon emissions reduction.
I've been informed that she'sgoing to join a group called C40
(16:12):
, which is essentially mayorsaround the world in different
cities that are committed tocarbon emissions reductions.
So she's drawing a line in thesand saying she wants carbon
emissions reductions, and I amtold that eventually she's going
to declare some of her climategoals and I want the people that
are hearing this to support her.
When you've got a leader who'swilling to do this, and maybe
(16:34):
she posts a lot of her goals onsocial media or whatever
platforms, the only peoplecommenting on that aren't the
people who are decrying thisagenda.
We're at a very important pointhere in Jacksonville.
(16:58):
This is a real rarity that wehave a mayor that would take a
position like that, and I dothink it's incumbent upon the
people in this region to supporther.
When you got your main leaderin this city who's taking a
stand like this.
Now she's going to have abattle when she tries to get the
(17:21):
city council to take any actionon this, and she's going to
need people out in the voterbase saying, yes, we support
what the mayor is asking for.
So I do think that that's veryimportant and I hope that people
, especially those people whoare very engaged in social media
(17:42):
, will drown out these otherpeople who will be the naysayers
when she comes out with thistype of thing.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I think that's a really good point.
Thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Well, I do want to applaud some of what's going on.
And another thing about yourmayor is she has created a
position called theSustainability Manager.
That's a position that didn'texist before and the dialogues
I've had with her, they'remaking good efforts, working
with the Jacksonville TransitAuthority, which is a major
(18:16):
source of carbon emissions, tohelp them transition, reduce
their carbon emissions bytransitioning to lower emission
vehicles, evs and things likethat.
So that's a good plus and thecity is being very instrumental
in this.
It's also working with the PortAuthority to start trying to
(18:39):
help it transition to electricalvehicle types of systems where
you're less dependent on yourcarbon emission sources.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I know one of the asks of the Renew Jaxx campaign
is for the city to commit tohaving all of their operations
on non-fossil, on renewableenergy.
Basically, one of the benefitsof that is that that then acts
as a catalyst for certain thingsto happen in the city and in
the city's economy so that itmakes it easier.
We're going to transition allof our fleets to electric
(19:10):
vehicles.
Well, that means that they haveto be putting in infrastructure
, and once you kind of startthat, you begin to have the
workforce that's available to dothat, you begin to have
economies of scale.
That makes it less expensivefor small business owners and
for just residents in general totransition themselves to
electric vehicles and thingslike that.
(19:31):
It really is important.
Once a city makes the decisionto do that, so many other things
end up falling into place.
I'd like to actually address acouple more myths.
You addressed one myth that wasthat renewable energy will be
more expensive, and there are afew others that I hear.
So one is why are we going toinvest in all the solar?
It's not practical.
It only works when it's sunny.
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, well, that's an excellent point.
Anytime you advocate forincreasing solar, you've got to
combine it with the appropriateamount of storage capacity.
Yes, we recognize that we'vegot to have some storage
capacity as well, but that stillmakes it very affordable
(20:11):
compared to fossil fuel basedsystems.
Makes it very affordablecompared to fossil fuel-based
systems and when you add thatstorage capacity, it comes back
to Lorraine's point earlier,that you can get your energy
more distributed and you can getit closer to where it needs to
be utilized.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
One more pushback that I hear with respect to
solar, and it comes in the formof either we don't have enough
land to meet our solargeneration needs, or solar is
competing for land that we couldotherwise use for agriculture.
How would you respond to those?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well, I think those are all legitimate points,
especially in an urban area or,let's say, duval County that's
highly populated.
How can you get enough land Inthat instance?
You probably are going to haveto get your solar farms in
another area and transfer yourelectricity back to Jacksonville
.
Now Columbus, ohio, isoperating on 100% renewable
(21:12):
energy right now.
It doesn't own any generatingsystems.
It buys all of its energy fromother providers through power
purchase agreements and it's allclean or renewable.
You don't have to own all yoursolar fields.
You can get clean energy fromother providers and maybe FBL
(21:33):
sells it to JEA Now, conceivably, if JEA does put its fields out
in Baker County or anotherplace, there will be some loss
in transmission coming back toJacksonville.
But still it can be done ifthere's a will.
There are other ways that youcan get your solar.
(21:54):
How much solar can you captureif you covered a Walmart parking
lot with solar panels?
So there are ways that you cando this if you're willing to
think innovatively and the otherthings that your listeners they
need to realize.
Going with renewable energy isnot any longer going to
(22:18):
translate to higher energy costsfor the customer, any more than
fossil fuels would.
That was true 10 to 15 yearsago.
It's no longer true.
And the other thing that I wouldclose with is start voicing
your opinion.
If this is important to you,you can either do it through
(22:42):
your friends, the groups you'rein, or whatever Lorianne
mentioned earlier theJacksonville Climate Coalition.
There are membershiporganizations in there that you
can become involved in or mayalready be involved in, and
those are ways that you getinvolved and you show that this
(23:05):
is important to you.
I think that that's one thingthat's been lacking in Duval
County and the surrounding area.
We haven't had enough peoplereally speaking out and saying
this is important to us, this issomething that we want.
That's why JEA has been allowedto languish.
Nobody has been going to theboard meetings and saying we
(23:25):
want you to do different.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, I think that makes sense.
We have covered many differenttopics and, I think, actually
referenced several differentresources, so I will make sure
that all of those are in theshow notes and I guess, before
we close Logan, I really justwant to say thank you for
spearheading all of this.
You definitely are I don't knowabout the loudest, I don't know
if that's the right word.
(23:48):
You're definitely the most vocalperson in the community when it
comes to this specifically withmaking sure that we move this
city off of fossil fuels, makesure that we're all hearing
about it and talking about it.
So I want to thank you for allof your efforts.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Thank you, and thank you for allowing me to come on
and talk about these things withyou all, and thank you to the
listening audience.
If you're listening to thispodcast and supporting this.
I think it's a wonderful thingand we need more of this in
Jacksonville.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Thanks, logan.
Thanks for joining us today.
If you'd like to get involvedin advocating for clean energy
in our community, pleaseconsider joining the
Jacksonville Climate Coalition.
You can learn more atwwwjaxclimateorg.
And now today's one good thing.
On Thursday, the Bidenadministration issued rules to
(24:34):
dramatically reduce carbonemissions and pollution from US
power plants.
No-transcript.
Welcome to Sustainable North Florida.
I'm your host, Laurie-AnneSantamaria.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Going with renewable energy is not any longer going
to translate to higher energycosts toward the customer.
That was true 10 to 15 yearsago.
It's no longer true.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hi and welcome to Sustainable North Florida.
I'm your host, laurie-anneSantamaria, on the show today.
We'll be talking about whatit'll take to transition
Jacksonville.
Hi and welcome to SustainableNorth Florida.
I'm your host, laurieannSantamaria, on the show today.
We'll be talking about whatit'll take to transition
Jacksonville to renewable energy.
My guest today is Logan Cross.
Logan is the head of theJacksonville chapter of the
Sierra Club.
He's also leading a campaigncalled Renew Jax, whose aim is
to get the city of Jacksonvilleto commit to 100% clean and
(00:41):
renewable energy by 2050.
I expect this to be a livelydiscussion.
That's pretty safe anytime onesits down with Logan Logan.
Welcome to Sustainable NorthFlorida.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, thank you, Lori , for having me.
I'm looking forward todiscussing these topics.
They're very interesting to meand very important.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Thank you.
So before we get into renewableenergy, can you start with your
background and how you came tolead the Sierra Club and the
Renew Jax campaign?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Well, my career was largely in higher education and
I worked at one of the localuniversities Jacksonville
University and myresponsibilities focused on
strategic planning and researchand effectiveness, and research
(01:27):
and effectiveness.
And while working atJacksonville University, I
started participating in theSierra Club on a more active
level and I started out as whatis called an outings leader.
I would lead outings into ournatural areas in the region, but
eventually took on a leadershiprole, became the chair of our
Sierra Club group in this region, which includes Duval County,
(01:49):
st John's County and NorthernClay County.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I think most people listening to the show already
understand that the emission ofcarbon dioxide and other
greenhouse gases is what'sresponsible for climate change.
As a baseline, can you give usan idea of Jacksonville's
current greenhouse gas emissions?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
If you lump together or Duval County all of the other
industry emissions in 2021,that includes industries like
Anheuser-Busch, the packagingplants or the cardboard
producing plants, cmc, metal allof them if you lump them
together in Duval County, theyaccounted in 2021 for 9% of the
(02:29):
greenhouse gas emissions.
That means that JEA aloneaccounted for 91% of the
greenhouse gas emissions by whatare called large facilities in
the region.
If we really want to lessenJacksonville's carbon footprint,
one of the first places you'vegot to start is JEA, and that's
(02:51):
why a lot of our efforts focuson the Jacksonville Electric
Authority, which is the utilitythat serves this area.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Do you have a sense for what JEA is reporting for
their total greenhouse gasemissions In?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
2020, jea accounted for over 7 million tons of
greenhouse gas emissions.
That's in total for all theirpower plants.
The next year, in 2021, thatwent down to between 5 and 6
million tons of greenhouse gasemissions.
(03:25):
So JEA made some improvementsand they should receive credit
for that.
Let's say, of that 5 to 6million tons of greenhouse gas
emitted by JEA, almost half ofthem were emitted by one plant,
one plant alone.
It is the remaining coal-firedpower plant in their portfolio.
(03:46):
So that just shows you howoutsized the amount of pollution
created by a coal-fired plantis.
And I think you're seeing thatthroughout the energy industry.
Even Florida Power and Lighthas almost all of its coal-fired
plants on a trajectory wherethey'll eventually be taken out
(04:07):
of operation.
So that's why we are sopersistent in our pressuring JEA
to decommission the NorthsideGenerating Station by 2040.
I can almost guarantee youthey'd end up doing it sooner
than that.
Can almost guarantee you thatend up doing it sooner than that
, because they're going to findthat it costs more to operate
(04:28):
the plant than the value that itbrings in their energy
generation.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So, logan, I would like to start talking about the
Renew JAX campaign, and I knowthe Northside Generating Station
is part of that.
Before we do talk about it,though, I think it's fair to
share with the listeners that Iam the current chair of the
Jacksonville Climate Coalition,and the Climate Coalition has
signed on as an officialsupporter of the Renew Jax
campaign.
So with that disclosure, logan,can you give us an overview of
Renew Jax?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yes, and I appreciate the opportunity to do this.
And we call it RenewJacksonville campaign because,
of course, as the name implies,it focuses on a large portion on
renewable energy.
But it'll go a long way towardsrenewing Jacksonville's image
in the region, the state and theworld, because historically,
(05:18):
jacksonville has not beencharacterized as one of the more
forward-thinking cities in thestate or even in the region.
We think that if our city madesuch a commitment, it would
signal to the outside world thatour city is embracing its role
in reducing carbon emissions andaddressing climate change.
(05:40):
What we're asking the city todo is to commit to operate on
100% renewable energy by 2050 orsooner.
Now, normally that would be abig ask here in Jacksonville,
but 13 other cities in the stateof Florida have already made
that commitment to be on 100%renewable energy by 2050 or
(06:04):
sooner.
Some of them Tampa and Sarasotahave made a much earlier date
and for many things in ourcampaign we've used Orlando kind
of as our template.
Orlando has its own municipalutility, just like Jacksonville
does.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So, Logan, can you talk about that?
I think it's important forpeople to understand the
difference between aninvestor-owned utility and
aowned utility.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So it is one where you can buy shares in Florida
(06:50):
Power and Light, and so it is,in certain ways, under the sway
of its board of directors andits shareholders.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And it's a for-profit entity.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Right and it is for-profit, and so it's driven
by a different set of standardsthan a municipal utility.
Anybody who's living inJacksonville is essentially, in
a way, a partial owner of JEA,because it is our municipal
utility.
So JEA and its functioning isvery important to the city, and
(07:24):
so what we really want JEA is tosignal to us as ratepayers and
to our city leaders that it hasa vision for eventually becoming
a source of clean energy cityto commit to operate on 100%
(07:51):
renewable energy by 25th year.
Sooner.
It cannot do that unless JEAmakes a similar commitment.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
One of the things to borrow one of your terms that I
think is really head-scratchingis the new natural gas plant
that they have in their plansand part of the reason why, if
you look at I'll include this inthe show notes there's data
from the US Energy InformationAdministration, so that's not
any type of politicalorganization which talks about
the new US grid capacity in 2024.
(08:17):
So these are new powergeneration sources that are
coming online in 2024.
And it's only 4% from gas.
Gas is just 4%, which is really.
It's really hard to understandwhy we would be putting a new
natural gas plant when the restof the country is not doing that
.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
That's an excellent point, because that's what makes
their reliance on that hitscratching.
Because that's not the trend.
It doesn't reflect the trend inthe energy industry.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Because that's not the trend.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It doesn't reflect the trend in the energy industry
and that's just from aneconomic standpoint, because the
reason that the rest of thecountry is making that switch is
because new power generation isless expensive with with
renewable sources, and that thatis why it's so perplexing when
you provide those kind of datato the JA board and to the JEA
leadership.
They just seemed to ignore it.
(09:11):
We started our effort of tryingto pressure JEA back when it
was developing this integratedresource plan.
That's a fairly recentdevelopment and it took a full
year to develop that plan, andwe the Sierra Club, the
Riverkeeper and otherorganizations were included in
(09:32):
what's called a stakeholderadvisory committee and at that
time our ask of JEA was to be atleast at 30% renewable energy
by 2030.
Our other ask of them was thatthey set a timeline for
decommissioning their north sidegenerating station, and our
(09:55):
recommendation was 2030.
They refused to do that.
But now to other things that weasked for, which I think it's
important for your listeners toknow as part of the campaign is
we asked JEA to make rooftopsolar at least 5% of their
energy generation portfolio.
(10:16):
It would allow them to achievewhat's closer to a distributed
energy model Conceivably.
They could do like other citiesand start trying to design what
are called community microgrids.
It would be kind of like acommunity let's say Riverside
and Avondale might be on theirown kind of grid and they would
(10:39):
have to add energy storage therein the community so that some
of that energy that wasgenerated by their rooftop solar
would be stored in batterysystems where it could be
retrieved later.
That would make that communitymore resilient during extreme
weather.
If the rest of the power gridwent down, that community could
(11:04):
continue to function on theirstored energy.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, I think there are a lot of co-benefits when
you start looking at microgridsor having distributed energy.
As you mentioned, resilience iscertainly one of them.
If you have a hurricane orsevere weather come through, if
you're on microgrids indifferent parts of the city
might not be impacted.
The other thing that's reallyimportant is transmission.
About 40% of electricity islost over this transmission line
(11:27):
, so if you do something that'sdistributed format and you're
producing the energy closer towhere it's being used, then
that's actually way more energyefficient.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yes, yes, excellent point.
The longer your transmissionlines are for transporting your
energy, there's a loss duringthat transmission process.
Energy there's a loss duringthat transmission process and if
you do it more locally, thenyou're cutting down that
(11:57):
transmission loss and you'remaking the community as more
resilient.
Jea years ago stopped payingwhat was called net metering
rate for the amount of energythat a homeowner maybe puts in
the grid.
So they're being compensatedless than the state norm.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, look, logan.
I think that's a reallyimportant point.
In my own personal experience,when I first moved to my new
home, I looked at getting solaron my rooftop and I had several
people come out and I got quotesand when I sat down it just
really was cost prohibitive andI thought to myself wow, this is
the sunshine state, why is itnot working?
And when I travel I go to Tampa, I go to Orlando, I go to Miami
(12:32):
you see these solarinstallation vans everywhere and
they're not in Jacksonville.
And it wasn't until I starteddigging further into the policy
to understand why.
I mean, there's a very realeconomic reason for that and
that's because FPL and Dukeactually are required to do net
metering.
Basically, what that means forthe listeners is that in most of
the rest of the state they havewhat's called one-to-one, so I
have my solar system on my roof.
(12:53):
If there's an excess, I'mproducing more electricity
through my solar system in theday than I can use.
When I sell it back to the gridother parts of the state you
receive the same amount that youpay.
So the price per kilowatt houris the same whether it's coming
in or out, and in JEA it's notthe case.
(13:15):
So you might pay.
You know, say I don't know whatit is right now say 14 cents
per kilowatt hour, you might pay, and then if you give
electricity back to the grid,you're only getting a third of
that, and so that is why it'sreally hard for solar to be cost
effective for homeowners here.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
To Laurieann, your point.
When they stopped paying netmetering rate, it really slowed
down homeowners adding rooftopsolar in this region.
They did the math just like youdid, and so we're behind other
cities, and that's all due topolicy by JEA.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, so I think in this conversation we've got a
good understanding of wherewe're at right now with respect
to carbon emissions and howpower generation relates to that
.
In Jacksonville, what can ourlisteners do?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Well, one of the things is getting informed.
Also, you can spread the wordamong your friends, your
relatives.
When you consider a candidatefor office, ask them where do
they stand on things likeclimate change and renewable
energy type things, becauseeventually the city is going to
have to decide now where itwants to go with this.
(14:24):
And then the other thing theycan do you could get involved
with campaigns like RenewJacksonville campaign or you can
start going to JEA boardmeetings.
Jea boards is a body created toprovide oversight for JEA.
(14:44):
They have a public commentperiod where you can go and
speak.
And it's amazing that when wefirst started going and speaking
to the JEA board I mean we werea complete novelty they had not
had people showing up andtalking during the public
comment period.
Jea, when it was created, hadthe mission or purpose statement
(15:09):
to provide affordable andreliable electricity.
Nothing was said about how thatelectricity is generated.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, I think, logan.
I think that's a really goodpoint, and I have heard you
speaking in the community atother events, you know making
that same point.
So there are a lot of reallygood people at JEA that are
doing exactly what the missionis asking of them, and I think
that it's up to us as citizensand as taxpayers and as
ratepayers, to be pushing at thecity level for that mission to
(15:42):
change.
Can I make?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
another point, lorraine, that I think is
important is you've got a mayornow in this city who is very pro
addressing climate change andcarbon emissions reduction.
I've been informed that she'sgoing to join a group called C40
(16:12):
, which is essentially mayorsaround the world in different
cities that are committed tocarbon emissions reductions.
So she's drawing a line in thesand saying she wants carbon
emissions reductions, and I amtold that eventually she's going
to declare some of her climategoals and I want the people that
are hearing this to support her.
When you've got a leader who'swilling to do this, and maybe
(16:34):
she posts a lot of her goals onsocial media or whatever
platforms, the only peoplecommenting on that aren't the
people who are decrying thisagenda.
We're at a very important pointhere in Jacksonville.
(16:58):
This is a real rarity that wehave a mayor that would take a
position like that, and I dothink it's incumbent upon the
people in this region to supporther.
When you got your main leaderin this city who's taking a
stand like this.
Now she's going to have abattle when she tries to get the
(17:21):
city council to take any actionon this, and she's going to
need people out in the voterbase saying, yes, we support
what the mayor is asking for.
So I do think that that's veryimportant and I hope that people
, especially those people whoare very engaged in social media
(17:42):
, will drown out these otherpeople who will be the naysayers
when she comes out with thistype of thing.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I think that's a really good point.
Thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Well, I do want to applaud some of what's going on.
And another thing about yourmayor is she has created a
position called theSustainability Manager.
That's a position that didn'texist before and the dialogues
I've had with her, they'remaking good efforts, working
with the Jacksonville TransitAuthority, which is a major
(18:16):
source of carbon emissions, tohelp them transition, reduce
their carbon emissions bytransitioning to lower emission
vehicles, evs and things likethat.
So that's a good plus and thecity is being very instrumental
in this.
It's also working with the PortAuthority to start trying to
(18:39):
help it transition to electricalvehicle types of systems where
you're less dependent on yourcarbon emission sources.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I know one of the asks of the Renew Jaxx campaign
is for the city to commit tohaving all of their operations
on non-fossil, on renewableenergy.
Basically, one of the benefitsof that is that that then acts
as a catalyst for certain thingsto happen in the city and in
the city's economy so that itmakes it easier.
We're going to transition allof our fleets to electric
(19:10):
vehicles.
Well, that means that they haveto be putting in infrastructure
, and once you kind of startthat, you begin to have the
workforce that's available to dothat, you begin to have
economies of scale.
That makes it less expensivefor small business owners and
for just residents in general totransition themselves to
electric vehicles and thingslike that.
(19:31):
It really is important.
Once a city makes the decisionto do that, so many other things
end up falling into place.
I'd like to actually address acouple more myths.
You addressed one myth that wasthat renewable energy will be
more expensive, and there are afew others that I hear.
So one is why are we going toinvest in all the solar?
It's not practical.
It only works when it's sunny.
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, well, that's an excellent point.
Anytime you advocate forincreasing solar, you've got to
combine it with the appropriateamount of storage capacity.
Yes, we recognize that we'vegot to have some storage
capacity as well, but that stillmakes it very affordable
(20:11):
compared to fossil fuel basedsystems.
Makes it very affordablecompared to fossil fuel-based
systems and when you add thatstorage capacity, it comes back
to Lorraine's point earlier,that you can get your energy
more distributed and you can getit closer to where it needs to
be utilized.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
One more pushback that I hear with respect to
solar, and it comes in the formof either we don't have enough
land to meet our solargeneration needs, or solar is
competing for land that we couldotherwise use for agriculture.
How would you respond to those?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well, I think those are all legitimate points,
especially in an urban area or,let's say, duval County that's
highly populated.
How can you get enough land Inthat instance?
You probably are going to haveto get your solar farms in
another area and transfer yourelectricity back to Jacksonville
.
Now Columbus, ohio, isoperating on 100% renewable
(21:12):
energy right now.
It doesn't own any generatingsystems.
It buys all of its energy fromother providers through power
purchase agreements and it's allclean or renewable.
You don't have to own all yoursolar fields.
You can get clean energy fromother providers and maybe FBL
(21:33):
sells it to JEA Now, conceivably, if JEA does put its fields out
in Baker County or anotherplace, there will be some loss
in transmission coming back toJacksonville.
But still it can be done ifthere's a will.
There are other ways that youcan get your solar.
(21:54):
How much solar can you captureif you covered a Walmart parking
lot with solar panels?
So there are ways that you cando this if you're willing to
think innovatively and the otherthings that your listeners they
need to realize.
Going with renewable energy isnot any longer going to
(22:18):
translate to higher energy costsfor the customer, any more than
fossil fuels would.
That was true 10 to 15 yearsago.
It's no longer true.
And the other thing that I wouldclose with is start voicing
your opinion.
If this is important to you,you can either do it through
(22:42):
your friends, the groups you'rein, or whatever Lorianne
mentioned earlier theJacksonville Climate Coalition.
There are membershiporganizations in there that you
can become involved in or mayalready be involved in, and
those are ways that you getinvolved and you show that this
(23:05):
is important to you.
I think that that's one thingthat's been lacking in Duval
County and the surrounding area.
We haven't had enough peoplereally speaking out and saying
this is important to us, this issomething that we want.
That's why JEA has been allowedto languish.
Nobody has been going to theboard meetings and saying we
(23:25):
want you to do different.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, I think that makes sense.
We have covered many differenttopics and, I think, actually
referenced several differentresources, so I will make sure
that all of those are in theshow notes and I guess, before
we close Logan, I really justwant to say thank you for
spearheading all of this.
You definitely are I don't knowabout the loudest, I don't know
if that's the right word.
(23:48):
You're definitely the most vocalperson in the community when it
comes to this specifically withmaking sure that we move this
city off of fossil fuels, makesure that we're all hearing
about it and talking about it.
So I want to thank you for allof your efforts.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Thank you, and thank you for allowing me to come on
and talk about these things withyou all, and thank you to the
listening audience.
If you're listening to thispodcast and supporting this.
I think it's a wonderful thingand we need more of this in
Jacksonville.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Thanks, logan.
Thanks for joining us today.
If you'd like to get involvedin advocating for clean energy
in our community, pleaseconsider joining the
Jacksonville Climate Coalition.
You can learn more atwwwjaxclimateorg.
And now today's one good thing.
On Thursday, the Bidenadministration issued rules to
(24:34):
dramatically reduce carbonemissions and pollution from US
power plants.
No-transcript.
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