March 9, 2025 • 25 mins
https://twistmistaerosols.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennis-ossipov-grodsky/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/brad-barron-6603201/
what if you could ship your aerosol with no chemical propellant?
What if that could be reused 20-30 times?
Contact Us at Atlantic Packaging Today for Smart Strategies, Sustainable Solutions
Innovative Packaging you can trust for over 75 years!
https://anewearthproject.com/pages/our-story
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/packaging-today-show/id1656906367
Join Us Live Daily on LinkedIn Or YouTube or listen at your leisure on Apple or Spotify
Packaging Today Podcast
https://open.spotify.com/show/6dksVwqEFVDWdggd27fyFF?si=e924995740f94e19
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cory-connors/
I'm here to help you make your packaging more sustainable! Reach out today and I'll get back to you asap.
This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cory Connors (00:00):
Welcome to Sustainable Packaging
(00:01):
with Cory Connors.
Brodie (00:03):
And Brodie Vander Dussen .
Cory Connors (00:05):
Today's guests podcast, friends of the show.
They have a very amazingpatented product that we
think will revolutionizeaerosol products in packaging.
It's an incredible, sustainableoption for, Aerosol items
in the world of packaging.
So very excited to haveDennis Osipoff Grodzki and
(00:29):
Brad Barron from AlternativePackaging Solutions.
Welcome guys.
Dennis Ossipo (00:34):
Thank you, Corey.
Thank you, Brody.
And, hello, the audience.
Great to be backon your show guys.
Yeah, it's good to
Brad Barron (00:40):
be back
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (00:41):
as
Brodie Vander Dussen (00:42):
well.
welcome back to the show.
We're really excited to haveyou like Corey said, the,
if you're not familiar withtwist mist and the things that
you're talking, you're doing atalternative packaging solutions.
can you give a littlebrief background for both
of you for the audience?
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (01:00):
Since Brad is the veteran, and
he was at the beginning ofTwist Mist , I let him go.
Yeah.
Brad Barron (01:06):
Yeah.
so Dennis and I both comefrom long careers in the
consumer goods industry.
I was a packaging developmentleader for 25 years
at Procter and Gamble.
Working on lots of, multibillion dollar brands,
leading and I used to leadsustainability for the
corporation for packagingDennis similar on the
commercial side, trying tofigure out the commercial
(01:27):
model to make things when,that's always the challenge,
especially in sustainability.
It's like, how do you.
Be sustainable and beloved by your consumers.
in 2017, I had joined APS, tobring twist mist to market.
And twist mist is away to have an aerosol
experience without pressure.
(01:48):
it's a mechanical system.
I've got one here.
the bottle is just aregular old bottle.
And for the consumer,when you twist the top,
You can then spray justlike a regular aerosol.
You can spray upside down.
You can spray yourback and so forth.
And it's a totally mechanicalsystem, which is what brings
(02:09):
all the sustainability benefits,but also importantly, quite
a few consumer benefitsthat we're bringing to life.
Brodie Vander Dussen (02:14):
I love it.
I wrote down what you saidthat something sustainable
and loved by consumers,I think is the goal.
And sometimes it's way harderto actually do than said.
Brad Barron (02:27):
but it actually, I would say it has to
be loved by consumers.
1st, 1st, and in addition,be sustainable because if
you're not loved by consumers.
You're going to have a nicheaudience, if it's inconvenient
or not to do, we got to makea better product experience.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (02:43):
And then that's why every time we
start working with a new partnerand we're working right now
with pretty much every majorCPG company in the world, our
conversation always starts,of course, with technical.
Like we explain whatTwistmix does, but then
we shift conversation intolet's make sure that we
identify what we call pointof difference type benefit.
(03:06):
For consumer, because packagingalone is never enough.
Like, why should I use thisinstead of what I've been
using for so many years, right?
So we always start withidentifying critical POD
benefit that consumers willfirst, and then WistMist
will be able to deliver it.
Cory Connors (03:23):
It's an exciting innovation.
And there's a bunch of reasonsthat make it more sustainable.
And I want to go overthose kind of in detail.
number one, you don't needchemicals for propellants.
And so this is not only asustainable improvement, but
it's a health improvementand an environmental, huge
win, but number two, it's.
(03:44):
Technically refillable, right?
or reusable?
the mechanical portion of it.
Can you talk us through thatand shipping the whole thing
the first time or maybe justshipping the top separately
and then the consumer canjust buy the refills at
the store in the future.
Brad Barron (04:03):
Yep.
Absolutely.
And I'm looking around mydesk here for a sample.
It's like I don'thave, yeah, here we go.
So you can have both the mainunit as well as, sorry guys.
The lighting's bad today here.
The main unit andthe refill unit.
It looks like
Cory Connors (04:17):
you're glowing.
I love it.
Yeah,
Brad Barron (04:19):
I know exactly.
Red
Dennis Ossipov-Gro (04:20):
always does.
.
Brad Barron (04:22):
I'll back up.
the main unit when thisis empty, so the consumer
has sprayed it all out.
What they can do is theycan just take their refill,
which just has a regular flatcap, take the cap off, take
the head off the old bottle.
And now you have a refilland we've actually designed
the head so that it canlast for 20 to 30 refills.
(04:44):
So it's really going to last.
As long as the consumerrealistically is willing
to refill, I think mostconsumers won't refill
20 times, but they're notgoing to stop refilling
because the head breaks.
They're going to stop refillingbecause they want a fresh
pack, or it gets dirty ortheir dog runs away with it.
Or, who knows?
Who knows what happens?
Cory Connors (05:05):
They want to try another flavor
or sent or whatever.
Brad Barron (05:09):
And that's possible because we never
ever pressurize the bottle.
Everything is in the headand that's really the key
differentiator from a technicalpoint of view that results in
all the benefits that we have.
Brodie Vander Dussen (05:25):
And I imagine that the bottom of that,
like the bottle part of thatcould be made out of recyclable.
Materials or even PCR as well?
Brad Barron (05:33):
Yeah, absolutely, because the bottle is just a
bottle, so in this particularcase, this is, EBM HT PE could
be a hundred percent PCR.
It could be glass, it couldbe ceramic, it could be PET.
The bottle is just like a normalbottle, and that's important for
materials, but also consumersknow how to recycle bottles.
(05:57):
we've seen this a lotin the aerosol industry.
Consumers don't know what todo and they're like, in some
places you can put it in yourbin, some places you can't.
with a bottle, you take it,put it in the bin and it gets
recycled and then put the headon your next fresh bottle.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (06:11):
and another massive benefit is
of course design becauseall of a sudden That
bottle can be designed intoanything right right now.
every aerosol is a scuba tank.
And because we don'thave any pressure, we can
design any shape or form.
And we are working withdifferent categories.
Beauty might need different.
Look and feel versusdisinfectants, right?
(06:34):
And, since, Corey, we metfirst time, at the U. S.
Plastics Pack, CircularityAwards, where we, received the
top award for, reusability.
since then we received theFast Company Award for,
design, sustainable designin multiple categories.
So I think that's,industry is recognizing the
(06:55):
benefit of, of TwistMiston, on multiple levels.
It's great to see.
Cory Connors (07:00):
Congratulations.
another win that youguys are racking them up.
This is so cool.
Well done.
Dennis (07:05):
Strategy of small wins.
We're clawing ourway into the market.
Yes.
So you
Br (07:11):
mentioned, disinfectants and cosmetics, beauty, what other
products would fit under this?
I'm thinking even like, I'veseen olive oil sprayers.
I've seen, my mind's justgoing with ideas of what
could be put in this.
Is there any limitations?
Anything that you guys thinkwould be the best fit for this?
Brad Barron (07:28):
the way that we describe it to brands is
we're appropriate for anykind of product that you can
put into a bag on valve ora nitrogen powered aerosol.
We give a much betterexperience, we're
more sustainable.
But if you work in thosesystems, you work in
ours, some products likethat are very thick.
(07:49):
Olive oil is actually 1,you really need to have
either a kind of a strangespray pattern, like a fan
shape spray pattern, or youneed to have a LPG aerosol.
So what I would say is thethings we don't work with
adhesives, some hair careproducts, even though a
lot of styling productsand hair care products were
(08:12):
great with, that's about itreally at the end of the day.
you mentioned, some of thecategories, pretty much
everywhere in personal care,disinfectants, cleaning, air
care, technical lubricants,insects, repellents,
so yeah, sunscreens.
Okay.
back to what we're doing there.
(08:33):
pretty wide variety of products.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (08:35):
Wow.
And, and this is why it'simportant, Brody, for,
companies that we're dealingwith working with our partners
is because many of them areportfolio companies, and they
play in different categoriesand being able, if we're able
to introduce a New packagingtechnology that is, can be
used in different categories.
Of course, it's economiesof scale, right?
(08:57):
So consumers, will normalizethe usage of this new
technology very quickly.
So that's why it's soimportant that we were not
just one category player.
Brodie Vander (09:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love the idea of it being inmy kitchen in my bathroom and
under my sink and all of it.
I think even with you have.
Like you said, it's a newtechnology, but people know
what to do with bottlesand people will quickly
understand the behavior change.
And so I'm excited.
let's do this.
Cory Connors (09:26):
your brand and your company is
becoming quite famous.
You've reached recentlyappeared on the cover of
the world of aerosols.
is that the right worldaerosols magazine?
They're winning awards.
How are these accolades helpingyou launch this new system?
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (09:40):
over the last year, a year and a
half, I should say, we wereable to engage with, as I
mentioned, pretty much withevery major tier one, tier
two CPG company in the world.
And, as guys, it's a longprocess and, qualifying bread
and I, we're both coming fromPNG, so we know what it takes.
Machine works slowly,diligently, and those
(10:02):
are necessary steps.
Over the last year and a half.
We've been deeply engagedwith all major players.
They went through a technicalqualifications, internal
qualifications, and many ofthem are moving into So we're
moving into large scale consumertesting right now, and that's
what bread and I are spendingour time with, including our
partners at Lindell, who areabsolutely incredible, helping
(10:23):
us make sure that we havesustainable, supply of, of twist
missed, and I will let Bradtalk about that in a second.
But, yes, so we're movinginto consumer qualification at
scale with key major players.
But anything on thaton the production side?
Brad Barron (10:39):
Yeah, on the production side, what's
exciting news is when wesaw you last time, Corey, we
had our samples out of ourpilot equipment and we were
starting to do the tests.
We're actually moving thatpilot equipment into production.
We're still working withcompanies to get the
commitments that we need tobe selling 10s of millions.
(11:02):
But right now we have capacityavailable, so we can start
selling at the hundreds ofthousands level starting at a
lower level and then ramping up.
And there's been enoughinterest from players that
want to be early adopters.
We're in the process rightnow of bringing that out
there and actually, we'reannouncing that now on this
podcast to tell you the truth.
Cory Connors (11:24):
Congratulations, we're honored to be a
part of your celebration.
Brad Barron (11:28):
We're going to be talking this at ADF now
because it's really importantfor this to be in the market
and real, not just testssimilar to the work that
we're doing to launch our ownbrand in the sun care area.
Get out there inthe marketplace.
Get the real experience.
Cory Connors (11:44):
I can tell you, as somebody who has fair skin,
I need a lot of sunscreen, andit's very frustrating to not
have the spray sunscreen thatwe used to like so much because,
the aerosols just aren't asgood for the environment.
to be able to use yourproduct is, it makes a
consumer like me feel better.
About what I'm doingand, and it's a better
(12:06):
experience to, like you said,
Brad Barron (12:08):
yeah, and that's key, right?
as we said, it's got to startwith the consumer loves it.
And then it hasto be sustainable.
We've done a tremendous amountof technical benchmarking that
demonstrates that unfortunately,the sunscreen sprays, you pick
up today and spray yourself.
You think you'vecovered your body.
You really haven't.
(12:30):
there's a lot of spotswith no sunscreen on it.
maybe spots with extrasunscreen on it, but that's
why you're supposed to, afteryou spray, then take your
hand and spread it all around.
What we found is that whenyou use our system, because
of the type of spray, weget the quality of spray.
We get, you just get an evencoverage from the start.
(12:51):
we fully expect that we'regoing to be getting much
better sun care protection.
you're not going tohave those burn spots on
your body and so forth.
Cory Connors (13:01):
and I think, yeah, go ahead.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (13:03):
No, please, go ahead, I'm out.
Cory Connors (13:05):
Okay, I was thinking one of the, one of
the coolest things, that Iliked about this is a company
can use the same bottle thatthey've been using, right?
oftentimes, not everytime, but they don't
have to redo their mold.
you can accommodatetheir current bottle.
Generally,
Brad Barron (13:23):
it would have a different thread finish.
Cory Connors (13:26):
Okay.
Brad Barron (13:27):
So they do have to do some redo on the molding.
But what's important is wecan match the equity that
companies have out there.
if a company has a shape,as Dennis said, aerosols
are like scuba tanks and, wedon't have to be a scuba tank.
So we can be what your brandis supposed to look like.
In some cases, yeah, maybe youcan modify your bottle molds.
(13:49):
In most cases, you'll probablytake advantage of it, plus
the need to have a differentneck finish to, to create new.
Denni (13:55):
plus most of the aerosols right now are in aluminum
bottles, which, and aluminumis expensive right now.
So going into somethingon plastic side, PET will
help economics as well.
Significantly.
but I just want togo back very quickly.
If you don't mind to the sciencebehind the bread is very humble.
(14:16):
because the amount of workthat he and his team has
invested into uncoveringscience specifically
science of sunscreen isabsolutely astonishing.
And, We did a massive amountof comparative testing,
spectral analysis, particledistribution analysis, and
what we found is that numberone problem consumers have, as
(14:37):
Brad mentioned, is coverage.
And one of the keyissues is that we don't
know how much product.
We are spraying on our body.
And based on the research thatwas conducted by a professor
in Georgetown University andthen published in New York
Times, we have to use about oneounce of sunscreens to cover
(14:59):
us the entire body properly.
But how do we know right?
Consumers right now don't knowhow much desperate spring on.
that was one of thekey innovations that
we're able to introduce.
We're introducing the window onthe side off our bottle off some
twist missed powered sunscreens.
Why?
Because we have no pressure.
(15:20):
We can show what's actually,we can show consumers what's
inside of the bottle, andnot the mechanism, but actual
product and consumers can knowexactly how much they're using.
So that's number one.
Another one, anothermassive benefit is that
because Twistmiss generatesThis consistent pressure,
proper pressure, not toohigh, not too low, but
(15:42):
exactly the right amountof pressure from the first
spray to the last five bar.
We're creating a veryuniversal coverage.
And when we spray, whenconsumers spray, sunscreen
on their arm or their body.
You can actually see thoseparticles and you can
see how they're creatingthe layer immediately.
(16:03):
So there is almost noneed to spread the product
anymore because thecoverage is so perfect.
And Brad and his team onceagain, we generated visuals.
Demos and guys, we can show themto you whenever we can post it,
the link on to your podcast,but that's every time people
see side by side comparisonof what you're using right now
(16:25):
and what Twismis can generate.
It's always a wow experience.
So I don't need toinhale all of that.
And I would say
Brad Barron (16:32):
last summer, Dennis, use the system.
We use the system.
We've had consumers using this.
1, 1 quote we had, it wasa group of, I think it
was 8 people out on theboat all day in Florida,
kids, adults and so forth.
They came back after 8 hours.
He says the 1st time.
Nobody's been burned becauseevery single time we go out.
(16:56):
people use it in the wind blowsthe spray away, or you think
you're protected and you'renot, you saying this is amazing.
Everybody's protectedand that's the magic.
Right?
So it's like breakthroughconsumer experience that
you want in a package.
That's inherently.
Breakthrough sustainable,so consumers will, some will
run after the sustainabilityaspect, but everybody's going
(17:18):
to want that consumer benefit.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (17:21):
we were geeking out on consumer research
and, when, especially women,because we had many women and we
were testing for beauty product,but, every time they would use
the product and spray, theywould say, This is a beautiful
mist and universally, 99% ofwomen said this is a mist.
And we said, like, sodefine what else is there?
(17:42):
there are sprays, like definethe spray versus mist for us.
And spray is alwaysuniversally a harsh stream.
and that's why consumersright now, they're afraid
of spraying sunscreen.
Into their face becausethey see it as a spray.
Would you use twist mist tospray both face and body?
(18:04):
Absolutely.
another consumer unlock, right?
All of a sudden youdon't need two products.
You can use one and beconfident that you're
covering your body properly.
Little things like this,again, on the marketing
side, geeking out.
I love those insights.
Cory Connors (18:17):
All I can think about is, you haven't
missed with TwistMist, Oh,
Brad Barron (18:22):
great.
Cory Connors (18:23):
You can use that.
first one's free.
Yeah.
Dennis Oss (18:25):
Excellent, Exciting.
Never miss with TwistMist.
Beautiful.
So yes, I think, the brandthat we are going to launch,
at the beginning of next thisyear, it's called UV defense.
And, the key benefit is, it'sa flawless coverage with no rub
application or face and body.
(18:47):
again, so far, excellentfeedback from consumers.
so we're looking at March,April, when we're going to.
Start launching it.
Cory Connors (18:55):
I'll be your first customer, very
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (18:56):
excited.
I was going
Brodie Vander Dussen (18:57):
to say, is that available in the U. S.?
Where is that available to buy?
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (19:00):
it will be in the U. S. We'll
make it to the, we'll launchin the U. S. and then.
Brodie Vander Dussen (19:04):
So Corey's going to be your first customer,
and then I will be your second.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (19:07):
Alright, we'll send you guys the link.
track delivery so thatit's, it arrives perfectly
at the same second.
So both of you aregoing to be first time.
Brad Barron (19:17):
Actually, we'll make Brody show up there first.
So yeah,
Cory Connors (19:19):
she went, we have exciting
things coming up.
You're coming, going to Parispackaging week, next week.
Any, anything else youwanted to talk about for
that event or what's comingin soon, the near future.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (19:31):
I think, first of all, this is
our, Brad, I think it's ourfifth anniversary that APS is
going to be an ADF show, andas you guys know, this is the
largest show in the world,and we always, those two days
are the busiest days for usin the year because we have
a constant stream of, peopleOf, people who are interested
(19:54):
in and, brands who are, whowant to partner with us.
So this year, we will be lookingfor three to five brands in the
smaller brands, startup typebrands or brands that are, up
and growing, that, that areiconic in their categories so
that we can partner up with themand start quick normalization.
(20:16):
Because as Brad said, Wewill, the, major CPGs, they
will take their time, right?
They're going through theprocess, but we really would
like to start building the,normalization in market with
smaller brands like this.
Now, it's going to bea competition because
we had so much.
Interest coming fromthat's a tear of the
(20:37):
market for twist missed.
So we are going to be veryselective, identifying,
as I said, 3 to 5 partnersin different categories.
So we can start launchinginto market ASAP
Brad Barron (20:48):
and this is with our pilot equipment
that we have that eventuallyput into production.
And it's worth saying.
Just because different companieshave a different approach.
We took the pilotequipment approach, that,
we used to take it PNG.
like, I used to leadtied North America.
Okay, it's prettyserious pilot equipment.
This is not justthings to make parts.
These are proper small scale,pilot equipment, robotic
(21:12):
assembly, perfect quality.
so it really is markets.
Quality systems, that'sexactly what would launch,
when we have the larger supplychain in place to scale up.
So these lead adoptercompanies, they're going to
be 1st movers with an amazingtransformative experience
Dennis (21:29):
and just want to mention once again that Lindell
and Lindell's team, they'reincredible partner for us.
They're helping us bring itto life as well as the, the
international design firm.
Yeah, absolutely.
They've been with us sincethe beginning and they are
absolutely greatest partners.
We could have dreamt about.
you'll see
Brad Barron (21:49):
us at both of their boots booths that actually
we're, we're collaborating withthem and, and that's really our
model to change the industry.
Dennis and I have.
Tremendous experience abouthow to bring transformative
innovation to market, butnobody does that by themselves.
not even the big CPG companies.
when we were at PNG, weleveraged our suppliers and
(22:12):
our agencies and so forth tobring this transformation.
that's exactly what we've done.
Right?
So we're, we're an innovationcompany, but we pack a pretty
big punch because we're taking,I would say the same approach,
but actually, we're taking abetter approach than we had to
at, at PNG in many respects.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (22:30):
And the industry once again is
recognizing it, during thelast show, but they want to
talk about your trip to Londonand, the British association
of Arizona manufacturers.
Brad Barron (22:41):
So
Dennis Os (22:41):
last we were invited.
Brad Barron (22:43):
Yeah.
Last spring I was aspeaker at, the Bama
Innovation Show, in Leeds.
So went there, and this isa really, industry supply
focused, for the packaginggeeks of the aerosol
industry to a large degree.
and as I described it fromDennis, when I came back,
half of the room thought thatwe were totally transforming
the future of the industry.
(23:03):
The other half of theroom wanted to kill me.
because they didn't like thechange that we were bringing.
but, in all seriousness, allindustries evolve and, and
as I said, there's a lot ofproducts that are packed in
pressurized aerosols today.
That twist mist isthe best solution.
Okay.
(23:23):
And I think that's where theindustry is going to head.
There's also many that it'snot the best solution, so
we're not pretending thatwe fit for everything.
That would be ridiculousof us and we've got
bright things ahead.
we've got our limited launchescoming up with our current
supply chain, complete thequalification work that's
(23:44):
underway at the brands.
This is the commercial andconsumer qualification and
then the next couple ofyears start to see the big
launches out there and theindustry start to shift.
Cory Connors (23:54):
Congratulations.
Go ahead, Brady.
Brodie Vander Dussen (23:56):
I was going to say that.
I'm amazed.
Like I said, I'mready to buy it.
I'll be test forone, test for two.
for those who want to buyon the other side, brands,
people who just want to learnmore, maybe what's the best
way to get in contact witheither of you and, learn if
this is a good fit for them.
Dennis (24:14):
So we have, our website, twist, mist aerosols.
com.
we.
People can submit theirrequests there, or they can
find Brad and I on LinkedIn,probably the fastest way to
get in touch with either of us.
Yeah,
Brodie Vander Dus (24:28):
that's great.
Cory Connors (24:28):
We love LinkedIn.
Thank you both.
this has been amazing.
great episode.
Really excited to post this andsee you in Paris, next week.
Dennis Ossipov-Grods (24:37):
All right.
Thank you so muchfor inviting us.
Always a pleasure.
Welcome to Sustainable Packaging
(00:01):
with Cory Connors.
Brodie (00:03):
And Brodie Vander Dussen .
Cory Connors (00:05):
Today's guests podcast, friends of the show.
They have a very amazingpatented product that we
think will revolutionizeaerosol products in packaging.
It's an incredible, sustainableoption for, Aerosol items
in the world of packaging.
So very excited to haveDennis Osipoff Grodzki and
(00:29):
Brad Barron from AlternativePackaging Solutions.
Welcome guys.
Dennis Ossipo (00:34):
Thank you, Corey.
Thank you, Brody.
And, hello, the audience.
Great to be backon your show guys.
Yeah, it's good to
Brad Barron (00:40):
be back
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (00:41):
as
Brodie Vander Dussen (00:42):
well.
welcome back to the show.
We're really excited to haveyou like Corey said, the,
if you're not familiar withtwist mist and the things that
you're talking, you're doing atalternative packaging solutions.
can you give a littlebrief background for both
of you for the audience?
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (01:00):
Since Brad is the veteran, and
he was at the beginning ofTwist Mist , I let him go.
Yeah.
Brad Barron (01:06):
Yeah.
so Dennis and I both comefrom long careers in the
consumer goods industry.
I was a packaging developmentleader for 25 years
at Procter and Gamble.
Working on lots of, multibillion dollar brands,
leading and I used to leadsustainability for the
corporation for packagingDennis similar on the
commercial side, trying tofigure out the commercial
(01:27):
model to make things when,that's always the challenge,
especially in sustainability.
It's like, how do you.
Be sustainable and beloved by your consumers.
in 2017, I had joined APS, tobring twist mist to market.
And twist mist is away to have an aerosol
experience without pressure.
(01:48):
it's a mechanical system.
I've got one here.
the bottle is just aregular old bottle.
And for the consumer,when you twist the top,
You can then spray justlike a regular aerosol.
You can spray upside down.
You can spray yourback and so forth.
And it's a totally mechanicalsystem, which is what brings
(02:09):
all the sustainability benefits,but also importantly, quite
a few consumer benefitsthat we're bringing to life.
Brodie Vander Dussen (02:14):
I love it.
I wrote down what you saidthat something sustainable
and loved by consumers,I think is the goal.
And sometimes it's way harderto actually do than said.
Brad Barron (02:27):
but it actually, I would say it has to
be loved by consumers.
1st, 1st, and in addition,be sustainable because if
you're not loved by consumers.
You're going to have a nicheaudience, if it's inconvenient
or not to do, we got to makea better product experience.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (02:43):
And then that's why every time we
start working with a new partnerand we're working right now
with pretty much every majorCPG company in the world, our
conversation always starts,of course, with technical.
Like we explain whatTwistmix does, but then
we shift conversation intolet's make sure that we
identify what we call pointof difference type benefit.
(03:06):
For consumer, because packagingalone is never enough.
Like, why should I use thisinstead of what I've been
using for so many years, right?
So we always start withidentifying critical POD
benefit that consumers willfirst, and then WistMist
will be able to deliver it.
Cory Connors (03:23):
It's an exciting innovation.
And there's a bunch of reasonsthat make it more sustainable.
And I want to go overthose kind of in detail.
number one, you don't needchemicals for propellants.
And so this is not only asustainable improvement, but
it's a health improvementand an environmental, huge
win, but number two, it's.
(03:44):
Technically refillable, right?
or reusable?
the mechanical portion of it.
Can you talk us through thatand shipping the whole thing
the first time or maybe justshipping the top separately
and then the consumer canjust buy the refills at
the store in the future.
Brad Barron (04:03):
Yep.
Absolutely.
And I'm looking around mydesk here for a sample.
It's like I don'thave, yeah, here we go.
So you can have both the mainunit as well as, sorry guys.
The lighting's bad today here.
The main unit andthe refill unit.
It looks like
Cory Connors (04:17):
you're glowing.
I love it.
Yeah,
Brad Barron (04:19):
I know exactly.
Red
Dennis Ossipov-Gro (04:20):
always does.
.
Brad Barron (04:22):
I'll back up.
the main unit when thisis empty, so the consumer
has sprayed it all out.
What they can do is theycan just take their refill,
which just has a regular flatcap, take the cap off, take
the head off the old bottle.
And now you have a refilland we've actually designed
the head so that it canlast for 20 to 30 refills.
(04:44):
So it's really going to last.
As long as the consumerrealistically is willing
to refill, I think mostconsumers won't refill
20 times, but they're notgoing to stop refilling
because the head breaks.
They're going to stop refillingbecause they want a fresh
pack, or it gets dirty ortheir dog runs away with it.
Or, who knows?
Who knows what happens?
Cory Connors (05:05):
They want to try another flavor
or sent or whatever.
Brad Barron (05:09):
And that's possible because we never
ever pressurize the bottle.
Everything is in the headand that's really the key
differentiator from a technicalpoint of view that results in
all the benefits that we have.
Brodie Vander Dussen (05:25):
And I imagine that the bottom of that,
like the bottle part of thatcould be made out of recyclable.
Materials or even PCR as well?
Brad Barron (05:33):
Yeah, absolutely, because the bottle is just a
bottle, so in this particularcase, this is, EBM HT PE could
be a hundred percent PCR.
It could be glass, it couldbe ceramic, it could be PET.
The bottle is just like a normalbottle, and that's important for
materials, but also consumersknow how to recycle bottles.
(05:57):
we've seen this a lotin the aerosol industry.
Consumers don't know what todo and they're like, in some
places you can put it in yourbin, some places you can't.
with a bottle, you take it,put it in the bin and it gets
recycled and then put the headon your next fresh bottle.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (06:11):
and another massive benefit is
of course design becauseall of a sudden That
bottle can be designed intoanything right right now.
every aerosol is a scuba tank.
And because we don'thave any pressure, we can
design any shape or form.
And we are working withdifferent categories.
Beauty might need different.
Look and feel versusdisinfectants, right?
(06:34):
And, since, Corey, we metfirst time, at the U. S.
Plastics Pack, CircularityAwards, where we, received the
top award for, reusability.
since then we received theFast Company Award for,
design, sustainable designin multiple categories.
So I think that's,industry is recognizing the
(06:55):
benefit of, of TwistMiston, on multiple levels.
It's great to see.
Cory Connors (07:00):
Congratulations.
another win that youguys are racking them up.
This is so cool.
Well done.
Dennis (07:05):
Strategy of small wins.
We're clawing ourway into the market.
Yes.
So you
Br (07:11):
mentioned, disinfectants and cosmetics, beauty, what other
products would fit under this?
I'm thinking even like, I'veseen olive oil sprayers.
I've seen, my mind's justgoing with ideas of what
could be put in this.
Is there any limitations?
Anything that you guys thinkwould be the best fit for this?
Brad Barron (07:28):
the way that we describe it to brands is
we're appropriate for anykind of product that you can
put into a bag on valve ora nitrogen powered aerosol.
We give a much betterexperience, we're
more sustainable.
But if you work in thosesystems, you work in
ours, some products likethat are very thick.
(07:49):
Olive oil is actually 1,you really need to have
either a kind of a strangespray pattern, like a fan
shape spray pattern, or youneed to have a LPG aerosol.
So what I would say is thethings we don't work with
adhesives, some hair careproducts, even though a
lot of styling productsand hair care products were
(08:12):
great with, that's about itreally at the end of the day.
you mentioned, some of thecategories, pretty much
everywhere in personal care,disinfectants, cleaning, air
care, technical lubricants,insects, repellents,
so yeah, sunscreens.
Okay.
back to what we're doing there.
(08:33):
pretty wide variety of products.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (08:35):
Wow.
And, and this is why it'simportant, Brody, for,
companies that we're dealingwith working with our partners
is because many of them areportfolio companies, and they
play in different categoriesand being able, if we're able
to introduce a New packagingtechnology that is, can be
used in different categories.
Of course, it's economiesof scale, right?
(08:57):
So consumers, will normalizethe usage of this new
technology very quickly.
So that's why it's soimportant that we were not
just one category player.
Brodie Vander (09:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
I love the idea of it being inmy kitchen in my bathroom and
under my sink and all of it.
I think even with you have.
Like you said, it's a newtechnology, but people know
what to do with bottlesand people will quickly
understand the behavior change.
And so I'm excited.
let's do this.
Cory Connors (09:26):
your brand and your company is
becoming quite famous.
You've reached recentlyappeared on the cover of
the world of aerosols.
is that the right worldaerosols magazine?
They're winning awards.
How are these accolades helpingyou launch this new system?
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (09:40):
over the last year, a year and a
half, I should say, we wereable to engage with, as I
mentioned, pretty much withevery major tier one, tier
two CPG company in the world.
And, as guys, it's a longprocess and, qualifying bread
and I, we're both coming fromPNG, so we know what it takes.
Machine works slowly,diligently, and those
(10:02):
are necessary steps.
Over the last year and a half.
We've been deeply engagedwith all major players.
They went through a technicalqualifications, internal
qualifications, and many ofthem are moving into So we're
moving into large scale consumertesting right now, and that's
what bread and I are spendingour time with, including our
partners at Lindell, who areabsolutely incredible, helping
(10:23):
us make sure that we havesustainable, supply of, of twist
missed, and I will let Bradtalk about that in a second.
But, yes, so we're movinginto consumer qualification at
scale with key major players.
But anything on thaton the production side?
Brad Barron (10:39):
Yeah, on the production side, what's
exciting news is when wesaw you last time, Corey, we
had our samples out of ourpilot equipment and we were
starting to do the tests.
We're actually moving thatpilot equipment into production.
We're still working withcompanies to get the
commitments that we need tobe selling 10s of millions.
(11:02):
But right now we have capacityavailable, so we can start
selling at the hundreds ofthousands level starting at a
lower level and then ramping up.
And there's been enoughinterest from players that
want to be early adopters.
We're in the process rightnow of bringing that out
there and actually, we'reannouncing that now on this
podcast to tell you the truth.
Cory Connors (11:24):
Congratulations, we're honored to be a
part of your celebration.
Brad Barron (11:28):
We're going to be talking this at ADF now
because it's really importantfor this to be in the market
and real, not just testssimilar to the work that
we're doing to launch our ownbrand in the sun care area.
Get out there inthe marketplace.
Get the real experience.
Cory Connors (11:44):
I can tell you, as somebody who has fair skin,
I need a lot of sunscreen, andit's very frustrating to not
have the spray sunscreen thatwe used to like so much because,
the aerosols just aren't asgood for the environment.
to be able to use yourproduct is, it makes a
consumer like me feel better.
About what I'm doingand, and it's a better
(12:06):
experience to, like you said,
Brad Barron (12:08):
yeah, and that's key, right?
as we said, it's got to startwith the consumer loves it.
And then it hasto be sustainable.
We've done a tremendous amountof technical benchmarking that
demonstrates that unfortunately,the sunscreen sprays, you pick
up today and spray yourself.
You think you'vecovered your body.
You really haven't.
(12:30):
there's a lot of spotswith no sunscreen on it.
maybe spots with extrasunscreen on it, but that's
why you're supposed to, afteryou spray, then take your
hand and spread it all around.
What we found is that whenyou use our system, because
of the type of spray, weget the quality of spray.
We get, you just get an evencoverage from the start.
(12:51):
we fully expect that we'regoing to be getting much
better sun care protection.
you're not going tohave those burn spots on
your body and so forth.
Cory Connors (13:01):
and I think, yeah, go ahead.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (13:03):
No, please, go ahead, I'm out.
Cory Connors (13:05):
Okay, I was thinking one of the, one of
the coolest things, that Iliked about this is a company
can use the same bottle thatthey've been using, right?
oftentimes, not everytime, but they don't
have to redo their mold.
you can accommodatetheir current bottle.
Generally,
Brad Barron (13:23):
it would have a different thread finish.
Cory Connors (13:26):
Okay.
Brad Barron (13:27):
So they do have to do some redo on the molding.
But what's important is wecan match the equity that
companies have out there.
if a company has a shape,as Dennis said, aerosols
are like scuba tanks and, wedon't have to be a scuba tank.
So we can be what your brandis supposed to look like.
In some cases, yeah, maybe youcan modify your bottle molds.
(13:49):
In most cases, you'll probablytake advantage of it, plus
the need to have a differentneck finish to, to create new.
Denni (13:55):
plus most of the aerosols right now are in aluminum
bottles, which, and aluminumis expensive right now.
So going into somethingon plastic side, PET will
help economics as well.
Significantly.
but I just want togo back very quickly.
If you don't mind to the sciencebehind the bread is very humble.
(14:16):
because the amount of workthat he and his team has
invested into uncoveringscience specifically
science of sunscreen isabsolutely astonishing.
And, We did a massive amountof comparative testing,
spectral analysis, particledistribution analysis, and
what we found is that numberone problem consumers have, as
(14:37):
Brad mentioned, is coverage.
And one of the keyissues is that we don't
know how much product.
We are spraying on our body.
And based on the research thatwas conducted by a professor
in Georgetown University andthen published in New York
Times, we have to use about oneounce of sunscreens to cover
(14:59):
us the entire body properly.
But how do we know right?
Consumers right now don't knowhow much desperate spring on.
that was one of thekey innovations that
we're able to introduce.
We're introducing the window onthe side off our bottle off some
twist missed powered sunscreens.
Why?
Because we have no pressure.
(15:20):
We can show what's actually,we can show consumers what's
inside of the bottle, andnot the mechanism, but actual
product and consumers can knowexactly how much they're using.
So that's number one.
Another one, anothermassive benefit is that
because Twistmiss generatesThis consistent pressure,
proper pressure, not toohigh, not too low, but
(15:42):
exactly the right amountof pressure from the first
spray to the last five bar.
We're creating a veryuniversal coverage.
And when we spray, whenconsumers spray, sunscreen
on their arm or their body.
You can actually see thoseparticles and you can
see how they're creatingthe layer immediately.
(16:03):
So there is almost noneed to spread the product
anymore because thecoverage is so perfect.
And Brad and his team onceagain, we generated visuals.
Demos and guys, we can show themto you whenever we can post it,
the link on to your podcast,but that's every time people
see side by side comparisonof what you're using right now
(16:25):
and what Twismis can generate.
It's always a wow experience.
So I don't need toinhale all of that.
And I would say
Brad Barron (16:32):
last summer, Dennis, use the system.
We use the system.
We've had consumers using this.
1, 1 quote we had, it wasa group of, I think it
was 8 people out on theboat all day in Florida,
kids, adults and so forth.
They came back after 8 hours.
He says the 1st time.
Nobody's been burned becauseevery single time we go out.
(16:56):
people use it in the wind blowsthe spray away, or you think
you're protected and you'renot, you saying this is amazing.
Everybody's protectedand that's the magic.
Right?
So it's like breakthroughconsumer experience that
you want in a package.
That's inherently.
Breakthrough sustainable,so consumers will, some will
run after the sustainabilityaspect, but everybody's going
(17:18):
to want that consumer benefit.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (17:21):
we were geeking out on consumer research
and, when, especially women,because we had many women and we
were testing for beauty product,but, every time they would use
the product and spray, theywould say, This is a beautiful
mist and universally, 99% ofwomen said this is a mist.
And we said, like, sodefine what else is there?
(17:42):
there are sprays, like definethe spray versus mist for us.
And spray is alwaysuniversally a harsh stream.
and that's why consumersright now, they're afraid
of spraying sunscreen.
Into their face becausethey see it as a spray.
Would you use twist mist tospray both face and body?
(18:04):
Absolutely.
another consumer unlock, right?
All of a sudden youdon't need two products.
You can use one and beconfident that you're
covering your body properly.
Little things like this,again, on the marketing
side, geeking out.
I love those insights.
Cory Connors (18:17):
All I can think about is, you haven't
missed with TwistMist, Oh,
Brad Barron (18:22):
great.
Cory Connors (18:23):
You can use that.
first one's free.
Yeah.
Dennis Oss (18:25):
Excellent, Exciting.
Never miss with TwistMist.
Beautiful.
So yes, I think, the brandthat we are going to launch,
at the beginning of next thisyear, it's called UV defense.
And, the key benefit is, it'sa flawless coverage with no rub
application or face and body.
(18:47):
again, so far, excellentfeedback from consumers.
so we're looking at March,April, when we're going to.
Start launching it.
Cory Connors (18:55):
I'll be your first customer, very
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (18:56):
excited.
I was going
Brodie Vander Dussen (18:57):
to say, is that available in the U. S.?
Where is that available to buy?
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (19:00):
it will be in the U. S. We'll
make it to the, we'll launchin the U. S. and then.
Brodie Vander Dussen (19:04):
So Corey's going to be your first customer,
and then I will be your second.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (19:07):
Alright, we'll send you guys the link.
track delivery so thatit's, it arrives perfectly
at the same second.
So both of you aregoing to be first time.
Brad Barron (19:17):
Actually, we'll make Brody show up there first.
So yeah,
Cory Connors (19:19):
she went, we have exciting
things coming up.
You're coming, going to Parispackaging week, next week.
Any, anything else youwanted to talk about for
that event or what's comingin soon, the near future.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (19:31):
I think, first of all, this is
our, Brad, I think it's ourfifth anniversary that APS is
going to be an ADF show, andas you guys know, this is the
largest show in the world,and we always, those two days
are the busiest days for usin the year because we have
a constant stream of, peopleOf, people who are interested
(19:54):
in and, brands who are, whowant to partner with us.
So this year, we will be lookingfor three to five brands in the
smaller brands, startup typebrands or brands that are, up
and growing, that, that areiconic in their categories so
that we can partner up with themand start quick normalization.
(20:16):
Because as Brad said, Wewill, the, major CPGs, they
will take their time, right?
They're going through theprocess, but we really would
like to start building the,normalization in market with
smaller brands like this.
Now, it's going to bea competition because
we had so much.
Interest coming fromthat's a tear of the
(20:37):
market for twist missed.
So we are going to be veryselective, identifying,
as I said, 3 to 5 partnersin different categories.
So we can start launchinginto market ASAP
Brad Barron (20:48):
and this is with our pilot equipment
that we have that eventuallyput into production.
And it's worth saying.
Just because different companieshave a different approach.
We took the pilotequipment approach, that,
we used to take it PNG.
like, I used to leadtied North America.
Okay, it's prettyserious pilot equipment.
This is not justthings to make parts.
These are proper small scale,pilot equipment, robotic
(21:12):
assembly, perfect quality.
so it really is markets.
Quality systems, that'sexactly what would launch,
when we have the larger supplychain in place to scale up.
So these lead adoptercompanies, they're going to
be 1st movers with an amazingtransformative experience
Dennis (21:29):
and just want to mention once again that Lindell
and Lindell's team, they'reincredible partner for us.
They're helping us bring itto life as well as the, the
international design firm.
Yeah, absolutely.
They've been with us sincethe beginning and they are
absolutely greatest partners.
We could have dreamt about.
you'll see
Brad Barron (21:49):
us at both of their boots booths that actually
we're, we're collaborating withthem and, and that's really our
model to change the industry.
Dennis and I have.
Tremendous experience abouthow to bring transformative
innovation to market, butnobody does that by themselves.
not even the big CPG companies.
when we were at PNG, weleveraged our suppliers and
(22:12):
our agencies and so forth tobring this transformation.
that's exactly what we've done.
Right?
So we're, we're an innovationcompany, but we pack a pretty
big punch because we're taking,I would say the same approach,
but actually, we're taking abetter approach than we had to
at, at PNG in many respects.
Dennis Ossipov-Grodsky (22:30):
And the industry once again is
recognizing it, during thelast show, but they want to
talk about your trip to Londonand, the British association
of Arizona manufacturers.
Brad Barron (22:41):
So
Dennis Os (22:41):
last we were invited.
Brad Barron (22:43):
Yeah.
Last spring I was aspeaker at, the Bama
Innovation Show, in Leeds.
So went there, and this isa really, industry supply
focused, for the packaginggeeks of the aerosol
industry to a large degree.
and as I described it fromDennis, when I came back,
half of the room thought thatwe were totally transforming
the future of the industry.
(23:03):
The other half of theroom wanted to kill me.
because they didn't like thechange that we were bringing.
but, in all seriousness, allindustries evolve and, and
as I said, there's a lot ofproducts that are packed in
pressurized aerosols today.
That twist mist isthe best solution.
Okay.
(23:23):
And I think that's where theindustry is going to head.
There's also many that it'snot the best solution, so
we're not pretending thatwe fit for everything.
That would be ridiculousof us and we've got
bright things ahead.
we've got our limited launchescoming up with our current
supply chain, complete thequalification work that's
(23:44):
underway at the brands.
This is the commercial andconsumer qualification and
then the next couple ofyears start to see the big
launches out there and theindustry start to shift.
Cory Connors (23:54):
Congratulations.
Go ahead, Brady.
Brodie Vander Dussen (23:56):
I was going to say that.
I'm amazed.
Like I said, I'mready to buy it.
I'll be test forone, test for two.
for those who want to buyon the other side, brands,
people who just want to learnmore, maybe what's the best
way to get in contact witheither of you and, learn if
this is a good fit for them.
Dennis (24:14):
So we have, our website, twist, mist aerosols.
com.
we.
People can submit theirrequests there, or they can
find Brad and I on LinkedIn,probably the fastest way to
get in touch with either of us.
Yeah,
Brodie Vander Dus (24:28):
that's great.
Cory Connors (24:28):
We love LinkedIn.
Thank you both.
this has been amazing.
great episode.
Really excited to post this andsee you in Paris, next week.
Dennis Ossipov-Grods (24:37):
All right.
Thank you so muchfor inviting us.
Always a pleasure.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.