Antumía - Water Spirits of the Emberá People

If it quacks like a duck...but it looks like a sloth? It's an Antumía! In this episode, Ayden takes a plunge into the mystical river monsters of Panama. From creation story to shaman familiar, the Antumía has been there for it all!

• Demons ft. Alejandra Sanchez
• Wekufe
• The Darien Gap

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:20):
A cool friends, it's me Adrian or Aiden. Either way,
I am still your host and you are still listening
to SOUSTO, the podcast of paranormal folklore from Latin American cultures.
Welcome back, thank you for returning from the beyond, and
if this is your first time, welcome to Sousto. We're

(00:42):
so happy to have you here, y'all. A lot has
been happening lately. I feel like this Eclipse season really
put me through the wringer. It dragged me through the mud.
But I'm on the other side. We are down a car,
which means we don't have a car at this moment
of recording, but hopefully this week we will be going

(01:02):
to get a new one. Listen. Car troubles are so annoying.
They're the worst. It is not fun at all. It's
so expensive for whatever reason. And we had always I'm
just gonna give you a really quick personal look into
my life. But Jeff and I planned this was always
the plan was to get a new car. However, the
plan is happening a lot faster than we anticipated, so

(01:25):
it's sooner than we wanted it to be. But this
is what we wanted. Eclipse season was just like I'm
gonna go ahead and rush that along for you. Don't
you worry about it. I'm gonna make the decision for you. You
have no choice but to go through with this, So
thank you. I guess I don't know anyway. I hope
your Eclipse season was not as rough as that, or
if it was, I hope that you've made it to
the other side with me as well. But you know what,

(01:47):
I'm here and so are you, and that's all that matters.
So thank you for being here. We're gonna go ahead
and jump into quick updates for the show, so of
course upcoming events. We have an addition, but a couple reminders.
First off, we have Hollow Weird at the Ruise Branch
of the Austin Public Library. This is a free, adult
only event that's happening on October tenth from six to
nine pm. I'm kicking off the event with a storytelling

(02:09):
and a discussion at six pm, So if you're gonna
get there, get there a couple of minutes early, just
so we can settle in and get the night going
because it's going to be a lot of fun. And
then after the discussion and throughout the evening, you can
put your horror knowledge to the test with the horror
trivia that they're hosting that starts at seven fifteen, and
then there's going to be spooky crafts throughout the night,
so make sure you go to that one. Very excited

(02:30):
for that. I've done several events with the Austin Public Library.
Thank you all so much. By the way, please keep
having me back. I have fun every time we go,
so I wouldn't be coming back if I didn't. Right.
The next event is the night Owl Spirit Social. This
is a ticketed event and this is happening on a
Halloween night, October thirty first, from five pm to midnight.
It's going to be so much fun. Listen Halloween parties.

(02:50):
They happen every year. We're actually moving hours so that
I can do this event because I would not miss
it for anything, that is how much fun it is.
I'm dedicating my Halloween night to it. As I know
are so many other people and you should be one
of them. So I'm going to be speaking on a
panel and the hour panel is called when the veil
is thinnest. I also have a table that I will
be at all night. So if you go to the event,

(03:11):
please make sure to stop by say hi, let's take
a selfie, let's just chat. I love meeting you all
in person. It's so much fun. And aside from panels
and the vendor market, there's also going to be a
costume contest, There's going to be tattoo specials and more.
When I went to the Spirit Social last year, I
got this little tattoo right here, my little ghosty. You
probably saw pictures of it on social media, but if

(03:33):
you are a best goalfriend on Patreon, then you are
seeing this in video right now. But regardless, there is
so much to do at the Spirit Social. This is
their second you're doing it. I'm so excited to be
invited back. And if you want to get your tickets
you can do so by visiting the night owlpodcast dot com.
They will sell out. The VIP tickets I know for
sure are sold out. There should be still the all

(03:55):
Access pass which gets you access to the panels and
the market, and then the right pass I think gets
you access to the market but not the panels. So
either way you will have a chance to see me
and so many other cool people regardless of which pass
you get, but you do not want to miss it,
I promise you they will sell out. And a new
addition to the lineup, we have the Strange and Extraordinary Fest.

(04:16):
This one is happening on November twenty second at twelve pm.
I will also have a table here and also speaking
on a panel, and of course there will be a
Spooky market. But if you cannot make it in person,
do not worry. There is an option to stream the
sessions and the panels online, so you can get your tickets,
whether that is in person or online. To watch the

(04:36):
again sessions and panels, you can get your tickets by
visiting Strange and extraordinaryfest dot com. So far, that's it
for events again. If you have an event that you
would like me to be present at that you think, hey,
Aiden Susto should be a part of this, feel free
to tag me in comments, put me in contact with
event organizers. If you are an event organizer, please feel
free to reach out to me. I'm always looking and

(04:57):
willing and excited to work with people, especially online events.
But we're going to move on to the next ding
on my list here, which is the book club. So
this month's Susto spell book Club we are reading It
came from the Closet Queer Reflections of Horror edited by
Joe Velesse or Valise. Sorry Joe if I mispronounced that.
I'm very excited to read this one. This one is
another one that's been on I'm not going to lie. Listen.

(05:19):
The Susto spell book Club is actually just a scheme.
It's a scheme to get me to read through my
TBR pile. It just so happens that other people have
a lot of, if not the same titles on their
own pile, so again, they're all going to be on
my TBR pile. But this one, you know, I've seen
it in the wild several times, and each time I

(05:40):
look at it and I think, should I get this?
Should I not? Maybe not? And then I just put
it on my list, you know, I write it down
and I say I will read this one day. Well
October is that day. Again. For the month of October,
we will be reading it. Came from The Closet Queer
Reflections on Horror edited by Joe. One more time, I'm
just gonna say, Joe V out of respect, I don't
want to butcher that as all. The book club is

(06:01):
free for anyone to join. However, Patreon subscribers do get
to vote on what we read, and they have exclusive
access to the book club's discord chat, so that's always
fun to join in on. And before we get into
today's episode, we are going to take a look at
one last thing and that is a Spotify comment. This
comment is from JT on The Demon's episode featuring one
of my best girl friends, Alejandra Sanchez, and JT said,

(06:24):
this is the validation and confirmation I needed to hear
right now. Spiritual warfare is real. Thank you both for
having this important platika. It's appreciated more than you know. JT.
I'm so glad that you enjoyed that. Listen spiritual warfare,
whether that is on a grand scale, whether it is
from individual to individual or from spirit or entity to person,

(06:45):
that's part of why we are all here, right we
at all I think at some level, if we're listening
to this, we sort of believe in that in some way,
and it can manifest them any different way. So either way,
I'm glad that that episode resonated with you. I'm going
to put the link for that episode in the episode
description below if you haven't heard it, or if you
just want to give it a re listen. That is
actually I think one episode that many people connected with

(07:08):
so huge. Shout out to my bestdie Alejandra. If you
haven't heard that episode again, link is in the description
go check it out. Now that is all said and done,
thank you for sitting through that. We're gonna go ahead
and dive into this week's episode, which is about the anthumia.

(07:40):
Our story begins not in the forest, but in a
gray government office in Panama City. Doctor Esteban Morales, a
corporate anthropologist, tapped away on his keyboard, zeroed in on
his latest research. He studied people, but not solely to
understand them better, but to know how to manipulate them

(08:02):
for businesses. He was a man of pressed shirts, polished shoes,
and a notebook, always ready to record what he could
turn into a marketing tactic. Across from him sat his boss,
a sharp eyed bureaucrat with the air of a man
who had never once touched the soil of the country
he ruled over. Isteban's boss clasped his hands together and

(08:23):
leaned forward. Esteban. He said, the embedrak people cling to
their rivers like a dog to its bone. We need
those rivers for dams, for hydroelectric power, for the future
of this country. But the Mbedra keep refusing our offers.
They reject money, they reject further relocation. They insist the
water is theirs. What we need is an understanding of

(08:46):
who they really are, the kind of understanding that lets
us pull them away from the water, convincing them it's
what's best for them. He leaned forward. Find out why
they refuse, find out what stories they tell themselves about
the water, and then tell me how to break them
away from it. Esteban adjusted his glasses, nodded gravely, and thought,
this will be simple. Days later he arrived at the

(09:09):
edge of the parka Nacional Chagras. The heat pressed down
like a weighted blanket. Cicadas shrieked in the trees, and
ahead of him through the canopy lay a newly built
in Berah village. Wooden houses sat on stills, floating above
the soil, Smoke curling gently from cook fires, children splashing

(09:30):
in the shallows of the river. To Esteban, it was
a curiosity. To the Embira, it was a testament to
their survival. They had already lost so much of their
land and been pushed to this new place in the
Chagita's River watershed. They didn't know if they could be
pushed from another home. The people greeted him politely, though

(09:51):
with caution, and then the man he had been told
about emerged, the Haibanah, the spiritual leader of the community.
His name was Rito. His hair was streaked with gray,
his chest painted with hagua designs that shielded his skin,
twisting around limbs like the rivers themselves. He spoke in

(10:12):
careful Spanish, his voice low and steady. You are welcome here, doctor.
Our people always offer hospitality, no matter what land we
have been driven to, far from our original homeland. We
have always been welcoming of those who come in peace.
But I must ask why have you come. Although we

(10:32):
open our arms to visitors, we are wary. A step
On smiled, bowed his head respectfully, and lied. I came
only to learn to observe your traditions, to share with
the world the beauty of your culture. Rito studied him
for a long moment, then nodded once. Then listen carefully.

(10:55):
The Haibana said. For the Emberra, water is not just water,
It is life. It is the root of everything. We
believe the world began with a giant tree. When that
tree fell, its vines spread across the earth, and from
them poured rivers. The waterfalls, he gestured toward the sound

(11:17):
of the rushing water upriver, are where this world and
the next touch, where the veil is thin, where spirits
move between, Esteban wrote furiously in his note book Mythology
Primitive Belief System Obstacles to progress. Out loud, he said, fascinating,

(11:38):
I would like to learn more about your relationship with
water Edito's eyes darkened. Some knowledge is not for outsiders.
Some ceremonies are dangerous if done incorrectly or without respect.
The air between them thickened. Esteban pushed further. Please let

(11:58):
me tell the world about how important was is to you,
so that they can understand your culture, so that maybe
they will give it the respect it deserves. The Hibanah
stared back grimly. There are spirits in the waters, spirits
that are dangerous to humans and can only be contained
by a Habanah who knows how to tame them. Your

(12:19):
misguided curiosity with water will summon an anthumia, an evil
spirit from the other side of the veil. A StEB
Un stared back and held back a laugh. I'm not
afraid of spirits. I want to know these stories so
that we can tell them to everyone. In the back
of his mind, he thought about how he could use

(12:39):
this fear of spirits against the Embedap people to scare
them away from their land. This could be exactly what
his boss was wanting. The Hibanah only stared back his
once polite smile, turning gruff. At last, the Hybanah said,
you may eat with us, you may sleep tonight, but

(13:01):
in the morning you must leave. That night, a Steban
sat by the fire, listening to stories sung by the elders,
songs about jaguars, about the spirits of the forest, about
the rivers that fed the land. He nodded and smiled, politely,
pretending reverence, while in his mind he imagined his report

(13:22):
and how pleased his boss would be. But when the
fire burned low, he saw Ritho rise quietly and slip
away into the darkness, heading toward the river. Naturally, a
Steban followed. The path curled through the forest, its roots
grabbing at the toes of Aesteban's boots, Shadows shifting in

(13:44):
the moonlight. The hum of insects that had filled the
air at dinner grew quieter, as though the jungle itself
was holding its breath. He followed the sound of rushing
water until he reached a clearing. There, under the silver
light of the moon stood a narrow waterfall. It was
not tall nor grand, but alive, with an ethereal shimmer.

(14:10):
Mist clung to the rocks, and the air was so
cool it prickled against his skin. On the river bank erithonelt,
his body bent forward, his painted hands raised in prayer,
his lips moved in low chants, his words weaving with
the sound of the falling water. And then something shifted.

(14:32):
The night halted. No frogs, no crickets, not even the
rustle of leaves in the wind. The surface of the
pool below the falls rippled, though no stone had been thrown.
A StEB On couldn't believe it, but the water parted,
and from behind the misty white veil of the waterfall

(14:53):
a shape emerged. At first, a Steban thought it might
be a person, tall, slender hair, black as riverweed, hanging
down in heavy strands. But then he saw the face.
It was not human. Its eyes glowed faintly, reflecting the moon,
like an animal in the dark. Its skin was too pale,

(15:14):
stretched too tight, and from its mouth came a sound,
a low, guttural quack, like a duck, but twisted deep
and sinister. The antumia. The creature, stepped slowly onto the
river bank, water streaming from its body in sheets. It

(15:34):
tilted its head, watching Aritho with something like inquisitiveness. The
Hibana did not flinch. He held his palms upward, whispering
words so soft that a Stebon could not catch them.
The Anthumia leaned closer, its mouth opening, rows of teeth
flashing like wet stone. It lowered its face to Edito's hand,

(15:58):
as if about to bite a Steban. Breathless with awe,
stepped closer to sea, and in doing so, his boot
slid into the river, just the slightest touch of water,
but that was enough. The antumia froze, its head snapped around,
and its eyes locked on a Steban. The sound it

(16:20):
made this time was no low quack. It was a screech,
high and piercing, rattling through his bones. The thing plunged
back into the river and in an instant. It was
racing toward him, its movement impossibly fast. A dark shadow,
pulled by a current. Adito's voice thundered across the water.

(16:42):
No fool, I warned you. I haven't finished the ceremony.
But it was too late. The antumilla surged from the water,
its dripping claws latching around a Steban's legs. The strength
was unreal. He was yanked from the bank, thrown into
the coal. He screamed, thrashing, grasping for air. The river

(17:04):
swallowed every cry. The current pulled him toward the falls.
Edito's voice was still shouting, desperate and furious. You are doomed.
Your presence sum into the antumia and there is no escape.
Now I can no longer control it. Try to make
peace with the water before you are taken to the
other side. Let it cleanse your soul. A Steban couldn't think,

(17:28):
He couldn't hear the pleas Eritho shouted at him. He
clawed at the water, but the antumilla's grip was unbreakable.
The roar of the waterfall grew louder, closer, until the
world was nothing but the sound of water rushing, until
Finally he was pulled through. On the other side, there

(17:48):
was no river, no light, no sound of the forest,
only darkness, endless and suffocating. All he heard was screaming,
not from his own throat, but surrounding him countless agonized
voices that had been dragged there before him, And all
he could feel was emptiness, the weight of eternity pressing down.

(18:14):
That is where the fool who wouldn't listen to the
wisdom of a Haibana, doctor Esteban Morales, remains forevermore. Welcome back, well, friends,

(18:44):
thank you so much for listening to that story. I
hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed putting
it together. The first source that we're going to jump
into here and a reminder, as always, all the direct
links to these sources will be on Patreon in the
SUSA Google Docs page for this But the first one
again is from a website called Pueblos orihinarios dot com
and the entry on this page is called Antumia Madre

(19:07):
del agua or mother of water, So that is one
of the things that they call the anthumia. It's known
as either the Madre de Aua, but the anthemia can
present itself in masculine or feminine forms, or even in
child forms. But this is a really short entry just
giving an overview. And again a lot of these sources
are translated from Spanish to English, so if it sounds

(19:27):
a little off, the translation was a bit off either way.
This says the anthumia is closely associated with water. They
can be either again feminine or masculine. They are an
evil high or an essence or spirit that emerges from
the water and carries off men to drown and slash
or eat them. So this could be I don't know
if it's specific to just men or I think it's

(19:48):
or what it says. Even in Spanish it says he
said yeva loos ombris, So again this is specific to men.
But I want to speak specifically about this word. So
it said they are an evil high. It's jai and
there are different variations of this word, and we're going
to go a bit more into depth about what that is.
But here it just says in parentheses next to it

(20:10):
essence or spirit. So you could think of a high
as just a general general kind of ghost. Maybe that's
kind of what they're attributing as a spirit. Or ghost
or something. This continues they never eat shamans, which is
the hibana. So that is a word from this community
in the Embedra people. And you might remember, I feel
like I'm jumping all over the place, but these these

(20:31):
pieces will connect. Their promise you. The Embedra are people
that are mentioned in the een Gap episode, so this
is in Panama. And again the Mbra they were said
to live in certain parts either through the Darien Gap
or the een Gap or towards like the exits or
the entrances of them. They live kind of in that area.

(20:52):
And so this the idea of them came up, and
then the idea of this one creature also came up
in that's in the research for that story. But this
continues that they the Antumia, they do not eat the
shamans or the hibanas. They actually work with them. And
this says that under the command of a hibana or
a shaman, they may carry out evil deeds or quote

(21:13):
evil deeds. But in this part of this entry it
says under their command they eat only the fingertips, noses, earlobes,
and lips. So when and if the Antumia attack people
or if they're sent to attack. They'll eat random body parts,
which is very strange. It's specifically these like they don't
eat the whole person, just they restrain themselves. They're watching

(21:34):
their figures. They don't want to eat the whole person,
just like the little pieces. Right. It says it lives underwater.
The anthomia lives underwater only seen by the Hibanah. Again,
only the shamans can see them, and its voice can
sometimes be heard at night, sounding similar to a duck's quack.
It's presumed proximity causes panic among people. They are often
the hibanas guardians and will leave the river to protect

(21:57):
it or if the Hibanah orders them to harm some
So again, these are river dwelling creatures, monsters, entities, whatever
you want to call them. They're river dwelling and the
only time they leave is when they are protecting the river,
the wildlife, or when the shaman de gaibana orders them
to leave it for whatever bidding they need done. Right.

(22:18):
I think what is a little amusing about this is
what if you just hear a duck out in the
wild at night. I like it would be scary because
you think of like other animal noises that people hear
at night, right, So like you think of the bobcat, right,
and it's scream or it's shrieked, sounds like a woman screaming.
So there are areas of Mexico that they say that
LRNA is out there. They heard LRNA, but it's just

(22:40):
this animal. It's shrieks sound like a woman's screaming. But
that does sound I think that sounds creepy. Hearing a
duck's quack doesn't to me sounds scary. But it's kind
of funny to think of a group of people. Let's
say that you know, up at night out in the
wild and they hear a duck duck quacking and then
they all freak out. I don't know, ducks are cute

(23:00):
to me, so it's just it's kind of funny to
me to make that connection. But either way, this says
that its appearance can be that of a large snake,
a wild boar, or a hairy black man with this
lothful face is what this says. There is a drawing here,
and I'll put this in the post for the episode
of like a depiction of an anthumia. But this idea

(23:23):
of the serpent does come up later. I think in
relation to the high or the the he. Again, there's
variations of the spelling. We're going to talk about that.
The next source that we have this is actually from
a dissertation and the title of this dissertation is transformations
of Eternity of Man and Cosmos in embeda Thought. And
this was written I think in it says in nineteen

(23:43):
ninety three. Yeah, in nineteen ninety three at the University
of Gotborg, which is I think it was somewhere in Europe.
But anyway, written by A ven Eric Isaacson. If you
all go to this and again you can just search.
This is available online. So if you just search Transformations
of Eternity by saven Eric with Justic Kay Isaacson, this
should come up. It is a like four hundred page dissertation.

(24:07):
But the direct linked again is in the SUSO Google doc.
If you go to page fifty nine, there's this section
titled Reptiles and Riverine Monsters. And I want to read
through this with you all. It's a bit lengthy, but
I think it's all very interesting. So this says the
native conception of the river as a transformable being which
through its multiple manifestations and variable guises, threatens or exerts

(24:27):
an ominous influence on the lives and actions of human
beings in its vicinity is vividly described in myth. So essentially,
what all of that said, or my interpretation of what
that said, is that the way that the people in
this area perceive the river, it impacts how they live
their lives because of the myth or the folklore surrounding it. Right,
then that's a very i think watered down, very simple,

(24:49):
basic interpretation of what that said. This continues. A variety
of beings, either friendly or fatal to man, reside in
the river, and the shaman is the only one who
can cope with them through his knowledge and ability to
communicate with the spirit world. So again this is talking
about the hibana. Again. The shamans are the only ones
who are said who can see these creatures and work

(25:09):
with them. This continues in any Choco river. The fishermen
or the canoeist promptly points out the dangerous spots in
the river, which by tradition should be avoided when fishing
or bathing or all together. During the critical hours of
the day and night, and during transitional periods of the
life cycle when humans are exposed to the anger of
the water beings. So there are spots in these rivers

(25:30):
where people know, stay away from that, don't go there.
That is where trouble is. This continues. The myths relate
the fate of humans of the past, of ancestors who
were subjected to the wrath of the river as a
consequence of their inappropriate behavior or the disobedience of given rules.
So it's also what I'm picking it from this is
that these creatures are sent to punish. They are tools

(25:53):
of like discipline, right. This continues. The myths graphically describe
the metamorphosis of the river into a huge mouth devours
humans into the underworld of the river. But the myths
also tell about the benign inhabitants of below who assist
the humans and guide them along the waterways that connect
our world with theirs. So there are also, like it

(26:13):
says here, benign entities that help the humans out. And
I feel like that is always the case in every
episode that we have of some sort of nature creature.
They're like, I'm going to I'm gonna say fae just
to connect it, because I feel like that's also really
widely known. But any sort of like nature dwelling, whether
it's forest, water, what have you. They they they help

(26:34):
as much as they harm, or it just depends not
maybe not as much, but they can help and they
can harm. There's always there's always that kind of like duality,
I guess, and this continues. The visible river from which
people can earn their livelihoods and near which they make
their abodes is for the embedda ocular evidence of the
once established and still unbroken contract with the aquatic underworld.

(26:55):
Fishermen or playing children on the beach run the risk
of being spirited away by the ever present water monsters
of the world below, as witnessed by the myths. So
that just establishes that there is a paranormal connection to
the water with the Embeda people, that there are myths
and legends and creatures that surround these bodies of water.

(27:18):
And typically in our research, when we're looking up the
Embeda people, they typically live in the structures that are
on stilts near the rivers. And I'm assuming that's in
case it rains and if the river rises or it floods,
then their houses aren't stilts because it's had like between
six to ten feet off of the ground. So it's
interesting that there's all these myths and there's this i

(27:38):
mean danger associated with these bodies of water. But that's
just how they live, because again, like water is also life,
and it's integral to their lives and how they live.
But anyway, this continues. The rivery and underworld is not
only the abode of the human like beings and mythic
relatives of the embedda of this world. Among the numerous
mythical monsters and beasts that haunt man from the imaginary

(28:00):
world in the depths of the rivers, three main categories
of beings stand out. The most important of these and
one of the most dreaded is the antomia. And there's
different spellings of the word. So the one that we're
using for the title the episode is Anthomia, which is
with the u anthumia, and then in this dissertation it's antomia.
It's antomia, and actually, to be more accurate, it's actually

(28:24):
antomia antomia antomia. The accent is on the a here
and the accent is on the eye on the version
that we use. But this says that it's generally described
as master or mother of the water. Again, Madre de Lawa,
either with male or female attributes, but sometimes appearing as
a pair, so they're coupled up. Sometimes interesting. It says.

(28:45):
Antomia usually has anthropomorphic features, often appears as a child,
but its face and abundant hair are said to resemble
those of the sloth, especially when it is seen streaming
through the water. So there's now this idea that this
creature can appear in several formats, I'll say, or several versions.

(29:06):
It'll manifest in different ways, but this sloth kind of
face is pretty consistent. It says. It is the principal
assistant of the shaman, but can at the same time
be his deadly enemy if directed by another hostile shaman.
So shamans can work with anthumias, and they can direct
the anthumia to attack another shaman or anybody else for

(29:28):
that matter. But if another shaman is hostile or pissed
off for whatever reason that somebody else they can just
sick it on them. Essentially, this continues. Any person who
dares to remain on the beach of the river when
the shaman is communicating with the anthomia runs the risk
of being devoured as the master rises through its cosmic
aquatic opening. So that is Essentially, what the story that

(29:49):
we put together is about is that this person intruding
on that communication, on that whatever is happening between the
shaman and the anthomia or the hibana and the antomia.
When someone interrupts that, it's grounds for being devoured, basically,
And this says there is a great variety of antomillas,
and their own master is said to be an underwater

(30:11):
being called do Hura. So now there is sort of
this maybe not class, but this hierarchy system of these things.
So there's the antomillas, which are these again sloth faced
creatures that can work with or for haivanas or shamans.
But there is a master of the antomias called the
do hurah At, which we did not get into in

(30:32):
this story. We're just talking about one specific anthomia, right,
And this says. The myth about Ventura's travels to the underworld,
recorded by Brado and Baldo, opens with an episode in
which Ventura, who has insulted the vindictive Cosasa, is dragged
into the river by the antomia of Cosasa, but in
a furious underwater battle, the hero is rescued by the
antomia of another more powerful shaman. So this seems like this,

(30:55):
The Adventures of Ventura are in I'm thinking this is
a book called baud O. This is so strange. When
I look this up Baodo Baldo, nineteen eighty four, I'm
not getting anything. I'm getting like random results on Google
that don't have anything to do with this. So hey,
I want to look into that more for you, but
I am not finding anything. So if anybody out there

(31:17):
knows anything about that, please let me know, because that's
so strange that nothing is coming up anyway. But it's
a story about this character who has a battle with
an anthomia, but he's saved by a different one. So
again it comes down to the individual that is working
with or is in control of the antomia to decide
whether they're going to do harm or help right, this
says Antomia is said to live in the depths of

(31:39):
the rivers, particularly in spots characterized by abysmal mud or quicksand,
and its house is to be found where a strong
current has hollowed out deep holes in the river bed.
Such a characteristic place is described from among the embida
of the Upper Sinu River basin. And this person goes
on to just describe how an Antomia's home, so to speak,
is formed in the river beds. It's just kind of

(32:01):
hollowed out whole with mud, and it looks like there's
no bottom to it. And this continues as well. A
historical reference stressing the awe that the Embeddah hold for
Antomia is found in a letter from eighteen oh eight
addressed to the Spanish colonial authorities, in which the native
leaders of the village of Guidebo express their respect for Antumia, quote,

(32:22):
whom we fear so much that it would be impossible
for us to express it. Another kind of ominous aquatic
beast is referred to as Nusi or Nunsi, which is
usually described as a gigantic fish that lives in deep
caves and the rivers from which it threatens to devour bathers.
So we're moving on from the Antomia. I wanted to
do this because it's interesting that, again, there's so many

(32:42):
myths that surround the waterways or the river, specifically with
the Imbada people, so I thought it would be interesting
to cover them. And I think this is what we're
going to reference that high creature that we talked about earlier.
But this says the nusi, right, it says the monster
shows itself by night with its eyes burning like fires.
According to the Embeddra of northwestern Antokia, the soul of

(33:04):
a dead shaman or a dead haibana one and the
same changes into a nusi animal. The Embeddra of the
Upper Baldo also mention a kind of nusi they call
doi mama or water jaguar. Again, these names, they can
have different meanings even within the same community. So some

(33:25):
of them say that the nusi is the soul or
what a shaman transitions to when they pass away or
when they die. It can also be depending on which,
again region, it could be that a specific type of
nusi can be this water jaguar or a doi mama,
which is something different that's not a person, right, I

(33:45):
don't know. But again, these names they have, they're they're
lending themselves a different meanings. Okay, I'm gonna skip over
a bit to get to this third one. This says
the third category of monstrous beings that rule the Riverine
underworld is usually referred to as in local Spanish and
as heh by the embira, which is je and I'm
assuming it is the same thing as the Jai the high,

(34:08):
but this is heh high. Hey. I mean they seen
close enough in spelling that they could be the same thing.
And that's what I'm assuming. But again I could be incorrect,
but this says while the related term HPA refers to
the Boa constrictor of the choco Ophidian fauna, the mythological
hit is usually described as a giant snake that roams
the aquatic underworld. I feel like I'm saying that aquatic

(34:31):
is aquatic, aquatic aquatic, I'm quacking. I'm an anthomia. It's aquatic, right, Okay? Anyway,
the mythological Hea is usually described as a giant snake
that roams the aquatic underworld, always startning to emerge from
the water to snatch humans and devour them, taking them
to the subterranean realm. As mentioned earlier, the anthumia can

(34:54):
present itself as a snake or a water serpent. Again,
there's this connection between antumia and he where Antononia can
manifest as you know, many different things, but including a snake.
There is also specifically a chah. So I'm like, is
it that like square rectangle thing? Like all rectangles are squares,
but not all squares are rectangles. Is like all anthumias

(35:16):
are his are also his, but not all his are anthumias.
And if you follow to that, please please let me know,
because I know that made sense. This is the one
time I'm sure about it. Watch it, watch it not be,
watch it be I'm wrong. But anyway, so the hey,
is this sea or this river serpent that can drown
people and take them. This is subterranean realm. When I

(35:37):
hear that word realm, I think of another dimension, another
side of the veil, like not this reality. Right, I'm
not sure this continues. The MBDA of Northwestern Antokia say
that the giant hit is able to locate its victims
ten kilometers away from deep in the river head gives
rise to whirlpools which drag people as well as canoes

(35:58):
down into its big mouth. So this could be the
I guess, like the quote explanation for what this creature
actually is. And I was thinking that earlier because it
talks about how the antomia can like open its mouth
big or it opens like a waterway to swallow people
to bring them in, but only the shamans can see them.
So if humans see someone dragged into the water, and

(36:21):
they don't see anything else. They just see the water moving.
I I was thinking, what if it's just whirlpools? And
this is what they're using to explain that. Right, but
this continues is intimately associated with water and water supply,
and the myths testify to its inherent nature as identical
with water itself. Okay, you'll are gonna have to follow
me here because I read this earlier and this is

(36:41):
very square, right tangle red tangle square, but not really,
it's just okay, here, check this out. It says the
heir snake makes the river grow and flow over. In
a mythological account taken down by Bento in nineteen seventy
eight among the Chami, a small striped worm is said
to be placed in a small gourd where grows rapidly
at the same time as the gourd is filled with water. Finally,

(37:04):
the worm is transformed into an enormous heh in a
huge lake another myth. Okay, so before we move on,
some people will think that if it's a heh this worm,
if you put it in water, the worm will grow
to the size of the body of water that it's in,
or too like an appropriate size to fill up, you know,
a big space, and then this continues. Another myth, also
recorded by Pinto in nineteen seventy eight, tells about Suranave,

(37:28):
which devours everyone who comes near it. At last, four
twins kill the monster with their lances and it vanishes.
Upon the spot of its death and disappearance, a huge
lake is formed. So it's saying, when they kill this thing,
this Hey, if it's big and they slay it, it
turns into a big body of water because it's that big.
But if it was a small one and they killed it,

(37:48):
it'd be just like a tiny poddle. I'm assuming right anyway,
This says Vascol, who characterizes Hey as the master of
the water, also calls attention to this obvious connection between
Hey and the making and the existence of water. However,
the water might also disappear when the head being associated
with it in myth is destroyed through the magic action
of the shaman. So if it's destroyed spiritually, so if

(38:12):
it's not physically killed, but if it's spiritually, like we'll
use the word exercised from the land or from this place,
then there's nothing left. There's not even water left. The
water is gone so if you put the worm into
follow me here, If you put a worm that is
actually a heh into a small river, it becomes the
giant river. If it's killed physically, it turns back into

(38:32):
the river. If it's dealt with by a shaman, if
it's killed spiritually or exercised again, that's the word I'm
using here, then there is no water anymore. It's just
gone anyway. Let me if you followed that, I think
it's a very interesting take of how this thing is
like the states of being, that it can exist or
not exist when it's killed anyway, this says. Norden's Gold

(38:53):
reproduces an account of the drained lagoon at the Do
Gambado River, which once had been filled with water, and
the abode of a giant snake he Now this is
spelled with h e until the snake was expelled to
the underworld by a shaman, upon which the lagoon was emptied.
This is written by Wassin in nineteen thirty three. And
then this says. In most variants of the myth of

(39:15):
Heru Botawara, the underworld water monster is described as a
giant heh snake Heru Botawara, which is a character in
another story blows his magic flute to make he appear
in the river. The dramatic encounter with the zoomorphic water
is vividly narrated in a version recorded by Cain. Among
the Embda and Banama quote the water was threatening, they say,

(39:37):
the river was rising. When that to the top, they say,
the he comes leaving, comes leaving with eyes too big,
comes to the top. When in that they say he
took him. Below they say, no one was left. It
took him. They say the water remained smooth. And that's
an excerpt from that story. And then I'm going to
skip ahead to the end of this entry. And this
says the mythological monsters which roam the riverine world, despite

(40:00):
their common habitat and generally aggressive attitude towards humans, are
essentially different in nature from each other, apart from the
obvious medley of appearances and physical peculiarities that distinguish one
from the other. Judging from mythical accounts, there is one
main faculty that distinguishes the heh snake monster from the
beastly rest. The he intimately connected to the water itself,

(40:22):
which is associated with the riverine nature and aquatic configuration.
As a living being, HEH not only lives in the
water of the river, but it has the faculty to
control and even make water. What is more, he is
able to metamorphosee itself into plain water and correspondingly to
make the river assume a snake like nature and body

(40:43):
as well. In the mythological state of things, the streaming
water of the meandering river changes into a wriggling giant snake,
and the turbulent water becomes its wide open mouth, ready
to swallow humans standing on the edge of the river mouth.
After which quote the water remains smooth, as if nothing happened.
Right this finishes, the river becomes head because he is
the river, the same river which once emanated from the

(41:05):
orfidian roots of the cut hennane tree, and the same
river that man reproduces in his face. So there is
a large, very very very big system of myth and
folklore that these people will talk about, or that the
Embeda people talk about, and it's essentially like part of

(41:25):
their creation stories. So what this ended with the henaneh
and I think we're going to talk about that in
an upcoming source. That is basically like their creation story.
It is the tree of life or that idea or
that concept of the tree of life where essentially, and
I'm probably gonna go over this again, but there was
this giant tree that was cut down and when it fell.
I think this came up earlier too, the vines that

(41:46):
spread across the earth. Those vines turned into water and
became rivers. So the idea of water being mythical and mystical,
it goes all the way back to their creation stories.
And it truly is everything, like it's connected to everything
because everything is connected to it, and in some cases
some things are it like the heh and I went

(42:07):
so heavy on the hay. I really enjoyed using this
source because again I think it's one of those things
where the antumia can be a hh, but not every
hit is an antia. Okay, we're going to move on

(42:31):
to the next source. This is another I'm not sure
if this is a dissertation or thesis, but this was
another academic source. If you look up Embido Mythology main Myths,
Features and Functions pdf, one of the sources is from
Revista Bioetnia and it's Bioetnia dot ii, ap dot org
dot co O I believe, and this is an article,

(42:52):
but anyway, I took an excerpt from this article that
I wanted to share with you, and it taught and
it talks about a lot of the creatures that we
mentioned earlier or just now. And this says quote. The
most well known and vibrant myths and legends include the
origin of humanity, the tells of Hunupotowara, the stories of
Heh or Hippa, the giant serpent, the adventures of Ventura,

(43:14):
a cultural hero from the Upper Beldo for some communities,
and hundreds of stories featuring the mysterious beings of the
Yamba's world. Yamba's world. I tried looking up that word,
and that was another one where I kept hitting a
dead end. So if anybody finds anything about that, please
send it my way. It's y A m b e
r As. But I'm assuming it's because it's saying mysterious

(43:35):
beings of the Yambdra's world. Yambras maybe has to do
something with like mystical, like it's like an overarching kind
of like a generic term. Anyway, this mentions nusi, which
we know now is what a shaman transitions to when
they pass away or what they can turn into. And
then this continues Adibada Guangano mothers of water or mad

(43:55):
Awa or Antumiya and HAIs goachiuas among the main ones.
So those are all different names for all these different
stories or beings from from these stories from Embeeda mythology,
and then this continues. These are governed by Antomia or Antumia,
who is said to live with Antumia uera a being

(44:16):
even more powerful than him. So this right here, I
think what it's saying is that all of these creatures
fall under the umbrella of Antumia, which is why I'm
thinking when I was saying earlier, and Antomia can be
Ahaz because he again, like we mentioned just now too,
it falls under that umbrella. But in Anthumia is a
general term. And this also reminds me. This idea of

(44:36):
a general term or a general like entity that works
or the Shamans can work with it reminds me, correct
me if I'm mom. But the Wekufe episode and I'll
put a link for that one in the description below
as well. But when we talked about the weak Gufez,
they were said to be like a general kind of
term that shamans or people who practiced I'm going to
use the very general and probably inaccurate term witchcraft or

(44:59):
even hia that they can work with the wikwufez, but
it's a general term for an evil entity or a
dark entity. But anyway, this continues. With the influence of Christianity,
Antomia has been cast as the devil or lord of evil. However,
in ancestral legends, Antomia is neither good nor evil. He
simply presides over both The kaibana or the shaman must

(45:22):
ally with him to gain hist for their healing and
magical work. If he were truly evil, he wouldn't grant
them power to heal. It is humans who choose between
good and evil, not Antomia, which I think is one
of the tenets of sustal Right. One of the beliefs
of Susto is that there's not there's hardly ever really
like evil out there that just exists as evil. There

(45:44):
are maybe, I think, forces that can be used for evil,
and it comes down to an individual person or to
who are an individual who is taking control of of
of certain things and what they use it for. Right,
But also I do think that there are maybe just
kind of evil sin entities out there. Anyway, This starts
to wrap up and it says, among the embira of

(46:05):
the Sinou River, Antomia appears to people as a gentle child,
man or woman sitting in the water playing with the fish,
a figure worlds apart from the red skinned, horned tailed,
and cloven hoofed being of Christian tradition. And so this
is really driving in that fact that, like with many
of the things that we talk about on here, with

(46:25):
the introduction of Christianity and Catholicism and colonialism, all of
a sudden, all these things that these people believed, Oh no,
that's the devil, no as the us like suddenly it's
it's evil, and it's only evil because it's not the
Christian Jesus or the Christian God. Right. And then this
finishes up here it says, in fact, for the elders,
Antomia is the spirit of the river, which again there

(46:48):
is this really strong connection to the river and to water.
The next source that we have here, this is from
this is my earth dot org and it says carving
the river from the tree, and this talks about the
creation story and also the idea of the relocation or
the displacement if you would, of the Imbedap people. And

(47:09):
this is an entry called carving the river from the tree,
and this says one day the god Gottavi decided that
he wanted to find water so that he and his
family could wash and drink. The water was hidden in
a rock by a woman named Guanga, and she refused
to give Gottavi the water. He tricked her and learned
to make the key she used to extract the water
from the rock. He then turned her into an ant. However,

(47:31):
before being transformed, Guanga had swallowed the entire river and
so the water was no more. Yet Ghdavid did not
give up. He recruited his family, the monkey, the squirrel,
the otter and the fox, and they all worked together
to get water out of the ancient tree Henneneh. Before
felling the tree or before cutting it down, they all
climbed on a raft so as they would not drown

(47:51):
when the water flooded the forest, and after fifteen days
on the raft, they finally arrived on dry land. Ever since,
the river is the forest and the animals had been
living in harmony. Gottavi is the god of the Embedda
Chami people, a Riverine hunter gatherer group who reside in
Panama and Colombia. Traditionally, many indigenous groups do not believe
that land can be owned, and so they are taken

(48:12):
aback when they find their home invaded by outsiders with
machines used to cut down the forest. So I don't
want to glaze over that story. So essentially again they
there was a quest for water, and there was water
in this tree, and so the tree was felled, or
whenever I hear the word felled, I think it was
cut down. It was taken down right, and when it fell,
the vines that hit the ground, that's what became the water,

(48:34):
and it flooded the earth. And so they had to spend,
of course, it says here the fifteen days on the
raft until there was finally dry land available. So I
just wanted to make sure that we all got the
creation story for the water. This continues about the land
and how the Embedda people view land, it says, and
so despite the great efforts of their god to ensure
access to the rivers in the forest, they must once

(48:55):
again fight to find a home alongside the monkey, the squirrel,
the otter, and the fox. Quote it is a game
of musical chairs, says Drea Burbank, co founder of the
b Core Savimbo, which seeks to help the Mbada Chami.
They keep getting displaced due to economic colonialism. Companies keep
purchasing their land and they are unaware until one morning
someone appears and begins chopping trees. Currently, some members of

(49:17):
the Mbada Chami, a very traditional Deep Jungle group, have
been resorted to living in barracks in prison like conditions.
So I think this is really important to talk about
because this is emphasizing. This was published, this says June tenth.
It doesn't give me a year. But this is a
modern site, right, and it's talking about things that are
happening recently. It's talking about machinery used to cut down trees.

(49:39):
This is modern day and this is colonialism. Colonialism is
still very real and it's happening all over the world
and this is just one example of it. I just
want to make sure we all understand that that is
what this is, or this is what that is. I
don't know whichever way square rectangle. This says three generations
are now involved in the process of finding a new
location in the to call home, and Abelo the elder

(50:02):
Shaman is determined to succeed soon he wants to die
in the woods, teaching his children about their traditional ways
like his ancestors before him. This continues. Abolo found an
area of pristine deep forest at Badakhia within the Putu
Mayo Amazon, which could be a wonderful location for the
group to live and to continue pursuing its traditional ways
of life. But for that to happen, they need money. Quote.

(50:23):
They do not like charities, it creates dependency, Burbank explains.
In their eyes, the land was stolen from them and
they do not want to accept it back as a gift.
They want it to be their legal home and respected
as such. To help fund the purchase of the land,
they have raised some money by selling handmade traditional jewelry,
hosting eco tourists, and working to track jaguars for Savimbo.

(50:44):
Once the land is theirs again, the Amberachami can provide
a priceless service for us, all conserving the forest and
its biodiversity and acting as a barrier to block access
to the rest of the pristine mountain that borders the
area to be purchased. This is something I thought was
very interesting that I wanted all of us to hear
because I didn't really know this, Like I don't know
the numbers of this, but this says no one protects

(51:05):
the wilderness as well as the indigenous people that have
inhabited it since time immemorial. Indigenous peoples make up about
six percent of the world's population, but they can serve
roughly eighty percent of all biodiversity. That is a staggering statistic.
I'm going to say it again. Indigenous people make up
about six percent of the world's population, but they can

(51:26):
serve roughly eighty percent of all biodiversity in the world.
And this the statistic may be hard to believe, but
it is acknowledged by the United Nations World Wildlife Fund
and some governments. In Australia, for example, there is a
growing trend of handing control of parks to aboriginal groups.
The traditional ways of life that have developed in harmony
with the surroundings, as well as generational knowledge and language

(51:49):
to describe the land and understand its dynamics, all make
stewardship by such groups the best option for conservation, far
better than leaving the land free from human intervention. Once purchased.
Beda Guerra will be protected under a special Colombian legal
structure that treats the land as a legal subject and
the Mbada Chami as its guardians. Because it is pristine

(52:10):
primary force at the border of the tropical Ande and
biodiversity hotspot, the conservation effect of saving this land will
extend far beyond its technical perimeter. So essentially, this is
a belief that I have always held close is land
back because who better to maintain this land than the
people that had maintained it for generations upon generations. What

(52:33):
are we doing stealing land from people and then fucking
it up for all of us? What make it make sense?
We're gonna be once in the next one before I
start screaming at you all. This is an entry in
a Smithsonian Magazine dot com page, and this says experienced
Banama's ancestral indigenous cultures. Learn about this Central American country's

(52:54):
ancestral indigenous culture and take in their spiritual connection to nature.
But there's a section in here about to the Emberra,
and this says to the Embedda people, rivers are an
integral part of their lifestyle and cosmogenic beliefs. Most Imbeddah
villages are located in the Ladian province. As I mentioned earlier,
this is how we found out about the Embeddad peoples

(53:15):
when we did the episode in the Ladien Gap, and
the link will be of course in the discussion below.
It says with a few villages not far from Banama City,
a boat ride on the Chagatas River can take visitors
directly to villages located at the water's edge. The region
known as the Chagata's Watershed Embedra region is home to
an incredibly dense and biodiverse rainforest that nurtures many in

(53:37):
Panama and in particular in Panama City, with fresh drinking water.
In addition, this freshwater source is a key supplier of
water for the nearby Banama Canal, and the Emberra are
guardians and stewards of this critical natural resource for all
while visiting travelers can learn the Embadas stories and ancestral
connection to the surrounding rivers and rainforest land. Among the
foundations of their natural and spiritual ideologies. The Ambedda believe

(54:00):
that water, even that which we drink and use today,
comes from a great tree that once felt in the
distant past, and that is the Henanes story or the
creation story, and from its vines, rivers were ultimately formed.
This worldview permeates their belief system and is evident in
the ways in which the Ambedas strive to protect their
natural land. The Ambedaz relation to water is also marked
by the spirit of Antumia, an evil spirit that lives

(54:23):
in the water, only visible to the Shamans or Kaimanas today.
So this now, Smithsonian, Hey, sorry, hate to be this
ghoul and tell you all, but that might be a
typo or inaccurate. The antumia is not an evil spirit.
It's not. I don't think it's fair to call it an
evil spirit. I think it is a spirit that can
be used for evil. However, it is a spirit, as

(54:44):
we've heard from other stories in which that guy was
being attacked by a antomia, another Antumia saved him. They
can also be used to help. So I don't know, Smithsonian,
hit me up if you need a folklorist contributor. What's
the word I'm looking for? Never mind, don't you don't
want me to for you? But yeah, I just noticed
that I've read this source before, and I just noticed
that anyway, it continues. Visitors will find that the Mbeda

(55:07):
are well known for their handmade crafts such as black
palm baskets or chunga and intricate animal carvings made from
both tagua nuts and cocobolo, along with temporary tattoos made
using a black dye from hagua fruit. And so this
was mentioned earlier, and there's another source that we have
about it in the story when we talk about doctor
Esteban Morales meeting the Raibana Erito, and we described Arito

(55:32):
as having streaked gray hair his chest painted with hagua designs.
And so what hagua is, it's Hagua is a fruit
and the Embeda people use this fruit to make a
temporary dye or ink or essentially they make temporary tattoos
with this ink or dye that's made from the fruit.
They have these like specific I don't want to use
the word esthetic, but like these specific markings that they

(55:52):
do with this ink or dye. And there and then
there are these like temporary tattoos. So that is what
this is talking about. It says on a visit, you
will likely travel in a traditional dugout canoe like that
of the Mbida, and may be able to experience additional
dance and music. While many Embedda villages are located deep
in the forest in Dadian Province, there has been some
migration to the Panama Canal Watershed area. Villages such as Imberrakiera, Ayapuru,

(56:16):
Baruru Puru, Emberra Dura are more accessible to visitors. Baradu
Puru is home to the current chief of Chagada's Watershed
Embedda region, Antonio Zarko, the grandson of a legendary Imbiddad leader,
Antonio Zarko, who once trained the Apollo eleven astronauts who
would ultimately go to the Moon. What these connections are wild?
This continues as the leader of a jungle survival program.

(56:39):
The elder Zadko trained many service members than others from
the USA Air Force and NASA, including Neil Armstrong and
John Glenn, what and how to survive in foreign environments
that would test their mental, physical, and spiritual resolve. And
in doing so, this leader of the Embedda, among so
many other indigenous peoples in Panama, have proven that the
ideas of the past can guide us onto a better future.

(57:00):
That's wild. I had no idea. This is amazing. So
the indigenous Embeddra people trained astronauts Neil Armstrong, people that
completely altered the course of science in the world, but
also in like America, is because of indigenous people. The
impact that indigenous people have in this world. Wow. Wow

(57:20):
wow wow wow wow wow. That's my mind is blown
right now. That's amazing. That is so cool. I had
no idea. Wow, this is really neat okay. And the
last source that I have here, this is a video
called The Tattoo Lady published by a Drew Binski on YouTube.
So if you just searched the Tattoo Lady, this is
from the count and Drew Binski. It's a short video.
It's like a three four minute video about this Embedra

(57:43):
woman and it's all about the Hagua tattoos. And in
the description here, Drew says they have this local fruit
called hagua, which only grows on select trees in central
Sla South America. The Embedras extract black juice from the
fruit and use it as an ink that they paint
their bodies with and it stays active for about two weeks.
The geometric shapes and designs have been passed down from

(58:04):
their ancestors and they use it today as a sunscreen
and shampoo as well, and then they said they interviewed
this woman named Lisa and she is the main tattoo
artist or hagua artist in this community of twenty four families.
This video was published in twenty twenty, so about five
years ago, but I was watching some of it earlier
and it was very very interesting and she, I mean,

(58:26):
she looks so cool. So definitely check out that video.
But as always, the direct link will be in these
Suso Google talks and those are all those sources that
I have for you today to welcome back Google friends.

(58:50):
Thank you so much for listening. Remember, if you would
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(59:10):
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(59:31):
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(59:53):
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(01:00:16):
Love love love them. They're They're super cool and Elia,
thank you so much for that review. That means so
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(01:00:37):
and a major thank you to this episode's patron Saints.
You are Liza Rachel, Alejandra Luthor, April d Josette, Sam Mandy, Jules, Lori, Genie, Desiree,
c Nedesa, rachel A, Asusena, Marlene Laney, Desiree A, Carla Ricardo, Vanessa, Mariza, Nieves, Manormal, Iris,

(01:00:58):
mad Floor, Lena Nightingville, Clint, Rachel w and Armani. Thank
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you will, I will talk to you in the next
episode and until then, Noteo Sustas Bye,