June 12, 2025 • 46 mins
"What if a family had to love a monster?" In this episode of Susto, Ayden talks with author, Gerardo Sámano Córdova about his artistic journey, the cultural influences that shape his storytelling, and the themes of grief, acceptance, and queerness present in his work, particularly in his book 'Monstrilio'.
Enter the Instagram giveaway for your chance to win a signed copy of Montrilio!
ISSUE 81 of American Short Fiction
A Self-Appointed Safekeeper of Beauty
2024 Fall Issue of The Columbia Review
The Smiling Man
Want to hear your story on Susto? Fill out the Letters From the Beyond form or visit SustoPodcast.com to be shared on the show!
Become a Patron here!
Want to hear your story on Susto? Fill out the Letters From the Beyond form or visit SustoPodcast.com to be shared on the show!
Become a Patron here! Subscribe to Susto's YouTube channel!
Enter the Instagram giveaway for your chance to win a signed copy of Montrilio!
ISSUE 81 of American Short Fiction
A Self-Appointed Safekeeper of Beauty
2024 Fall Issue of The Columbia Review
The Smiling Man
Want to hear your story on Susto? Fill out the Letters From the Beyond form or visit SustoPodcast.com to be shared on the show!
Become a Patron here!
Want to hear your story on Susto? Fill out the Letters From the Beyond form or visit SustoPodcast.com to be shared on the show!
Become a Patron here! Subscribe to Susto's YouTube channel!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
A girlfriends, it's me Adrian or Aiden. Either way, I
am still your host and you are still listening to Sustal,
the podcast of paranormal folklore from Latin American and Hispanic cultures.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Now right off the bat.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
As you may have seen in the title, we have
a monstrous special guest today that I'm very excited about.
But before that, if you are a best girlfriend on Patreon,
then you have the option to watch the video version
of this episode. And speaking of video, Sustal is now
available on YouTube and YouTube Music, meaning that it will
(00:58):
be available as a podcasts, So like every other podcast platform,
new episodes will be populating on YouTube and all. Though
video versions of the episodes will remain a Patreon exclusive.
The audio version of the episodes will be on YouTube
and YouTube Music. But I will be making videos. It's
(01:19):
something that I've always enjoyed doing, so you'll see some
content on there that is public available to everybody. It
might be Suster related, it might not be. I just
want to have fun with it, and if you all
have any ideas for me, please feel free to.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Send them in.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
You can subscribe by visiting YouTube dot com, slash at
Soustal Podcasts I am excited to.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
See you there.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So moving on, I want to let you know that
my guests today and I are hosting a giveaway, so
stay tuned for more details on that later in the episode.
And without further Ado, let me go ahead and introduce them.
(02:02):
Headaudo Samono Gordova is a writer and artist from Mexico City,
living in Brooklyn. He's currently writer in residence at Fordham University.
He got his MFA from the Helenzell Writer's Program at
the University in Michigan. He has studied at Breadloaf as
a work study scholar and fellow, and at the Tin
House Summer Workshop. Hidatado is the author of Monsterilio, which
(02:23):
is now one of my all time favorite books and
I have it here. The book published in twenty twenty three,
in case you haven't had a chance to pick it
up yet, Monsdrilio is a thought provoking meditation on grief, acceptance,
and the monstrous sides of love and loyalty. His short
stories have appeared in Catapult, The Common, Ninth Letter, Passages,
North Chicago Quarterly Review, and others, and he is currently
(02:45):
working on a second novel and fun Fact. He's been
known to draw little creatures. Please Welcome to Susto Hirado
Samono Gordova, head out of Though.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Hello, thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Hello, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So in case there is something that I maybe did
not cover in that intro, is there anything else you
would like to let the listeners know about yourself, I think.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
You covered a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah right, yeah, I did my research.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah yeah, and I love it. Yeah. I don't think
I have anything to.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Add perfect, So we'll go ahead and get into the
questions then before I ask real questions because we will
be talking about your writing.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
But I'm very.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Curious about these little creatures that you draw. Can you
tell me more about that?
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah, I mean I just like drawing, like doodling little creatures.
I have on Instagram for them. I used to draw
them more often, but yeah, so it's just like I
don't I don't think I'm like the best illustrator or
drawer in the world, but I like doing them.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Have like well, I can show.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
You like it Toto of a little octopus here that's
so cute, and I have but but yeah, so, I
mean I just like silly little creatures.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I love that did you were you is doodling part
of your writing process as well? Like for Monster Deelio,
were you ever like doodling what you thought maybe m
looked like.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Well there is if you have the book.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Well it depends on what version is it is, but
there's like an illustration I did of like Monsterlia when
he's like a fury little creature. So yeah, I mean
it helps me imagine things, so I will or I
will like doodle maps or you know, like to get
(04:45):
my to wrap my head around how these things.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Are gonna look. But especially for Mons Tralia, it.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Really helped kind of like visualize what the creature is.
Also because mon Studio kind I evolved throughout the book,
so it was helpful to have like a more visual
place for me to go to and kind of like
go from there and kind of like have an anchor,
(05:13):
like a visual anchor. I'm a visual person, so it helps.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
To have that.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I feel like, yeah, I can definitely tell that you're
a visual person in your writing in the way that
you describe things. It's so like I could see them
kind of like being built in my head. I'm a
very visual person too, so I really really enjoyed not
only on Stelio, but all of your writing. And I
also like, I have this version of the book with
this kind of like color blocking on it, and then yeah,
(05:39):
little more Stelio peeking out.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
From the bottom. Yeah, I think is adorable.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Which is funny, right, because this is truly a book
about or one of the big parts of this book
is he's this little monster that's kind of like created
right out of this almost twisted kind of desperation to
hang on to a loved one. And then I keep
reading it, I'm like, he's cute. Yeah. But as you know,
(06:04):
our our culture features storytelling, right, And I'm talking about
like Latin America and Mexican culture, especially ghost stories. And
I've heard you talk about these kinds of stories and
other interviews, So I want to know how much of
that came up in your upbringing and do you think
it's contributed to your own storytelling.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Absolutely, I mean, just like you said, like, our culture
is steeped and kind of like the supernatural stories, ghost
stories and just like general superstitions and stuff like that,
which come up almost always in casual conversations, yeah, with family,
(06:44):
with friends, and whether you believe them or not, because
sometimes you're like, oh, that's kind of like impossible. But
also it's part of the culture, so it's kind of
like a state of where you accept them as part
of things that are happening and not happening at the
same time. So it's kind of like a like a
(07:05):
system of belief in which you don't have to fully
commit to being like, yes, there are ghosts, but at
the same time you're like, yeah, there are ghost you know.
Like so I love that that there's like a like
a more porous kind of way of thinking about the
world in which is not everything is like super black
(07:26):
and white, and it's like like weird things can happen, right,
you're not completely shot off from it. And so and
also like growing up and reading Latin American literature, Latin
American literature is of course like steeped in magic a
lot of the times, and so that also contributed to
(07:51):
like my like how I was formed as a writer thinking.
I mean, I grew up thinking that literature had to
be my way. Otherwise it wasn't like the literature literature obviously,
like I learned later that there's all kinds of literature
and there's realism and all of those things right.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
But.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Like in my.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Like for me, writing always kind of like tends to
go towards somewhere magical or even if it's not fully magical,
we're definitely that kind of like tests what the limits
of what we perceive is, right, and so and I
(08:37):
also think like it's a fun way. I mean, if
you're gonna write stories for me, super fun to imagine
things that probably couldn't happen. So so yeah, I think
I think culture and also like the Latin American literature
(08:57):
roots all influenced my right obviously.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, I heard you talk about in another interview this
series of children's books. They're like kind of different, like
reading levels in Spanish, And there was this one that
you mentioned about, like this ghost Boy in This Mansion.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And it made me think.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Also I talk about this book, my listeners retired of
hearing about it. But there's this book that I grew
up reading. And I hadn't heard about the series that
you mentioned until I heard you talk about it. But
this book that I grew up with, it's it's called
Stories that Must Not Die and it's a collection of
folklore and fables from the Texas Mexico border. And this
(09:38):
book was read to us in elementary. I have a
copy of the book from like my second third grade classroom,
and the stories in there. There's the story of Laona
of a Latusa, the girl who downs with the devil.
And it's funny because, like you mentioned, our literature is
so steeped in that magic, in that kind of paranormal
(09:59):
world that even at an early age, it's in our
classrooms along with like you said, when we're with family
or friends, the conversation just kind of veers that way,
which is my favorite part of any hangout obviously, is
when you start telling those stories. Yeah, So in reading
Mons Dilio, there were a lot of really really cool themes.
(10:20):
I think, of course upfront, like was mentioned earlier, is
you know it's that it's a story of like grief,
acceptance and love and loyalty. And I know that this
has been brought up in other interviews, but this is
also a very queer book, which I love because I
love the way that you write it and the way
that you talk about it, where you're like, well, yes,
(10:41):
these people they happen to be queer, and that's just
like we exist right where we're out here, and so
I love the way that it's written because it's never
like and they're gay. It's just it's part. It's part
of their lives, it's it's it's who they are. It's
part of who they are. But also I think it's like,
you do this really cool thing. And I don't know
(11:01):
if this is how intentional this was. And I want
to ask you to talk about the parallels between queerness
and M's instincts slash nature, not only maybe with his
own sexuality, but just like as a creature, as a being,
his base instincts, because you've mentioned again in interviews the
(11:22):
connection being told between your wrong and being a monster
and queerness, and you even asked what if a family
had to love a monster? And that was when I
heard you say that. I was like, WHOA, that's crazy
to hear because I connected to that, and I connected
to Monsterilio reading this book like being made to feel
(11:45):
like a monster or a natural and just like on
a personal level. And I've spoken about this very publicly before,
but as someone living with HIV, I been living with
HIV for over ten years now, I've had literally like
people's physical reactions. They throw their hands back and they
and they jumped back, right, So this again, in reading this,
(12:07):
I was like, well, like I felt like a monster
in that moment, and so reading this was like so
basically all of that to ask you kind of your
take on like being made to feel that way and
its relationship to queerness.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Right, absolutely, I mean I think while a lot of
what you just said is exactly how I was thinking
about it, those moments, those moments of reaction that come
from people that are like oh my god, what you know?
Or you know or even more subtle moments, right, Like
(12:46):
not everything has to be like h so dramatic, but
like moments that you feel other or like you don't
belong and you can't like really speak about who you are,
right because it's not what people expect or it's or
it feels like especially when younger, like if you were like, oh,
but I'm gay or whatever, it's like why do we
(13:08):
have to deal with this now? Right?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Like people were like, you.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
Know, like.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Trying to not engage with it or something, but it's like,
well but it's who I am, right, It's not nothing
to be so like reserved or not wanting to engage. So,
I mean, I think all of those things and I
think queerdom has always been linked to monsterdom in some way.
(13:37):
I think like from the idea of like queer people
really engaging with monsters and kind of like when when
there's a monster in like a book or a movie,
like queer people almost always identify with the monster rather
than like the heroes or whatever, you know, like because
there's like an innate feeling of how society has like
(14:03):
made us feel that we don't belong and that's exactly
how monsters feel right when they come into like the world.
So I thought being a monster or like Monsterlia actually
being a monster, and actually not, he in my mind,
he doesn't dislike being a monster. He just made to
(14:23):
feel that he should dislike being a monster because if
he shouldn't, you know, eat.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Or whatever, you know. But he himself is not. He's not.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
He's not hating that part of himself. And so it's
that part of like being like do I listen to
everybody else and kind of conform to what they want
of me because it's less dangerous obviously, like monsterrealia is
taken to like like an extreme degree, right, But it's
the same idea of like do you lessen yourself to
(14:59):
kind of like not ruffle any feathers and so other
people are comfortable and not you, or do you like
accept that you are who you are, even if other
people think you're a monster, and you just kind of
own it and be like, yeah, welcome, Maybe I am
a monster, but I don't care, you know, that type
(15:19):
of thing, and so that I think it's absolutely related
to a queer experience, and so I was very interested
in that. And I was also very interested in that
the characters like their actual like expressions of queerness in
sets and rheumantic relationships and all of that, those are
(15:41):
not challenged because I wanted that part of the world
to be to be just natural and be like, oh,
in this world, that's not an issue or that's not
something that jumps out at anybody. But there's definitely the
link to queerness in how monstream you always perceived in
the world and how he thinks of himself. That kind
(16:04):
of like acceptance for want, like self acceptance. I'm kind
of like just deciding why you want, how you want
to navigate the world.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Right, Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I love that you said that he he doesn't dislike
that part of himself, and maybe I am a monster.
And I feel like that is a point in so
many people's lives, I think, just in general, but especially
for people that I certainly have met that point a
long time ago where I was like, you know what,
Yeah I am I am a monster? Now what like
(16:38):
what are we going to do about it? And so
and I love that part of in this book because,
like you said, said, of course it's in this exaggerated
kind of situation, but it was so cool because I
can see that in his development when we get to
his kind of point of view and he's talking about
how he like unhinges his jaw and it feels good,
and he does it when he's alone because because it
(17:00):
does feel good, but he's away for you know, I
guess from other people looking at him or judging him.
And so yeah, I really I love that idea of yes,
I am a monster, So where do we go now?
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And so in reading your work, aside from one Stelio,
I saw recurring themes of like what people would call
body horror or gore death and transformation and sex. And
you seem so connected on what people may describe as
like on a primitive level or primordial or like base
(17:47):
human instincts. However, I also see those things coupled with
love and romance and beauty, And I was talking to
my boyfriend earlier about that and how I feel like, like,
in a issue eighty one of American Short Fiction, you
have a short story in there, a selfle pointed safe
(18:07):
keeper of beauty and the way that you talk about
I'm just going to read a sentence here. It says,
when I try, I only picture his exposed organs, a
purplish beating heart, his ballooning lungs, bulging eyes, exposed teeth
perfectly crooked, and the fibers of his muscles wound tight
enough to hold him upright. It just feels like I can,
(18:28):
like again, I see these I see these organs like
popping into my mind building this person. But it feels
like a faberge egg. I don't know, It's like it's
like nice and pretty and like the way that it's
kind of like structured in your writing. So yeah, I
wanted to hear you speak about the connection between those things, and.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Just like, how do you do it?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
How are you able to like talk about these things
in honestly truly like a beautiful way?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Thank you, and I also thank you for reading A
Self Appointed Safekeeper of Beauty because that's a very recent
story and I love it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
So yeah, I mean, I'm very interested obviously in the
physical and so Australia deals a lot with hunger, and
I think hunger in very many different senses, right, like
literal hunger and like sexual desire and all of that.
And I think, I mean, for me, like the body
(19:29):
is very important, and we as humans are not just exercises,
like intellectual exercises. We come in a body, and a
body is like a lot you know, like both great
and also awful a lot of the times.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
You know, like you have to deal with a lot of.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Stuff, and you can also like get a tremendous amount
of pleasure and joy from your body.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And so.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
In my stories, I like or like in my writing,
it just comes naturally to kind of like see the
body and kind of like feel present, like flesh presence,
I guess. And I also think sometimes with mons Tralia,
I'll read like a review or something it's like, oh,
(20:20):
it's great, but they didn't need to have sex in
it or never, which is like yeah, I did you know.
It's like talking about all these things about desires and
hungers and like things that you want for yourself, and
sex is a big part of that for a lot
of people, and so and I think for my characters
(20:41):
it is in different ways. But that expression of body
is very important. And also because a core thing for
Monsterlio the character is his body changing, right, and so
for other people, so people comments on it, you know,
(21:03):
directly or indirectly. There's a lot that people want to
do to his body, good and bad. And so it's like,
but it's my own and what does that mean, right,
and how do I express that? And also his instincts
(21:23):
and his desires are in his body, right, and so
it's not separate. And so for me writing about bodies
and about physicality and what you call like primordial things,
it's very important. I love thinking about like what makes
us human, like beyond like reason and all of that,
(21:43):
like more like the more biological and animalistic things that
we have, and how we build upon that, like beliefs
and structures and systems that help us and sometimes or
many times hinder us from experiencing the world. But it
(22:04):
all starts in being like creatures of flesh and blood,
and you know, and so I think for me it's
super interesting to think about bodies and what we hold
before we start making stories or like reasoning about them.
And then that just the position into what we like
(22:27):
maybe leave or not believe, and what we can create
or not create. And so yeah, I think it's super interesting.
And obviously, as I said in Montsreela, it was super
interested in hunger, and hunger is one of those like
primary or primorial things that we all have, right and
as in society or like in our societies, we're taught
(22:52):
to kind of like always mitigate hunger or control it, right,
literal hunger, like don't need that much, like you know
what you eat. You know, like there's a whole industry
and like sayd Collier around like eating. But also sex,
obviously sex is super controlled and super it's like such
(23:13):
a topic for humans, which is super interesting, right, And
so those things for me are super really really interesting
and something that I that I explore often in my writing.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
I also want to give a shout out to another
of your short stories, The Smiling Man, which was in
the twenty twenty four Fall issue of The Columbia Review.
God that story was just so good, and again just
mention of like hunger and the Flesh, and I kind
of like, I wrote my notes here, and so I'm
curious about your your idea on this, because this is
(23:55):
something that everyone can read right now, and I highly
encourage it. But I wrote here that there's this thing,
this monster that takes pieces of you, and not everyone
can see it, and even if it starts to take
pieces of them, they cannot always see it. And sometimes
it rids you of them entirely, and you try to
tell people about it, but then they don't understand, so
(24:16):
then you keep it to yourself, and then someone finally
can see it and they can help you fight it.
And I honestly I got teary eyed when I read
it because I was like, this is a beautiful romance story.
This is a rolling story. And I think maybe on
like the surface, someone would see some of the words
and hear some of the descriptions or what's happening, they'd
(24:37):
be like, no, this is a scary story. And I mean,
I think it can be both. But I thought it
was just such a beautiful story about love. When I
got to the end of it, and I was like
holding back tears because it was so so good. So
I don't know, I would just like to see if
you would like to say anything about The Smiling Man.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Yeah, oh well, thank you again for reading it. And
I love that story a sorry. I wrote a long
time ago and it has gone through like many revisions,
but I really like it, and you're absolutely right. It
is to me also like a romance story. It's a
love story, right, and I wrote it that way, and
(25:17):
it's it's like a or you could say it's like
a horror story with a happy ending like that. So yeah,
I mean, and I think it's all about physicality. I
think that that's one of those stories that I wrote,
and I was really really thinking about bodies and like
(25:41):
consuming and what it means and also why you owe
yourself or what you owe to somebody else, right, And
also I think so the Smiling Man like that idea.
So when I was very young, well young it like
(26:05):
I don't know, maybe like eight or nine or something,
I got like a really nasty like stomach virus or something,
and so I was I had like a really high
fever and I was delirious for a while, and my
mom says, I said, like I was seeing like a
(26:25):
man with a hat in the room. I can't I
can't really remember that because I was sick, I guess,
but but that stuck with me, right, And so in
that story, there's like a man with a hat in
a room, and that's the Smiling Man. So that's where
(26:47):
that comes from. And also obviously it reminds me of
like the Babba Duke or you know, other creatures like that.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Or I said, no.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Name from Spread It Away, No Face, no face. Yeah,
So like creatures like that it reminds me of. And
so it's like a very mysterious presence that you don't
know if it's good or evil, or if it's going
to help you some or like really like destroy you.
(27:22):
And so I was like really interested in that. And
as you know we talked about I love creatures, and
so I love thinking about what they can do or
not do or what they mean.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Oh my god, yeah, I just I was. I love
that story so much. It's so so good, and I'll
be linking these things also in like the episode descriptions
so people can go read them because yeah, so speaking
of the Smiling Man. In another interview that you did,
you told a story and I thought that at first
that they were related, but I'm hearing out that they're not.
(27:57):
But you told a story of when you were with
your family living in San Luis, Potosi, that your sister
claimed to see a man in her room, and so
I was wondering if that had inspired this story at
all in the story of the Smiling Man. But it's
a different, i think, equally horrifying story you're seeing this man.
(28:19):
But I mean for the listeners, if you could tell
that story about what your sister saw, and if you
have any other scary stories or encounters with the paranormal,
we would love to hear them.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Right, So.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Maybe it did actually, like maybe in one part of
my mind that also inspired those Smiling Man, you know,
like it's like a collection of things that inspire you,
and like you never know exactly who are you're pulling from,
but probably like that's there.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
So we were living in Sandy, Potosi.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
We only lived there for a year, and for those
people that don't know, it's like a city more towards
the north of Mexico, and we lived a little bit
away from like the actual city. We lived like in
an other part that it's it's called a Florida, and
(29:11):
it's kind of like a little bit secluded, and it
was it's very like there's a lot of trees in
like a state that is more deserted. So it was
like nice, and we lived in a big house, but
most of the time, because my dad had to be
working away during that year, it was mostly my mom,
(29:33):
my sister, and I living there, and so it just
felt as kids, it just felt like it was haunted
or something.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
It just like like everything felt like very solitary in
a where And I think my sister, she's older, and
I think she like lived like she was more in
tune to those things. I don't know, but like there
was one night that she started screaming in the middle
of the night and she's like, oh, there's a man
(30:08):
in my room. And so we all came to her
room and we brought like the dog in and everything,
and so like just because like we didn't know if
like there was actually wasn't man or like because when
we got to her room there was no one, but
we didn't know if like maybe he had escaped. There's
(30:29):
I mean, we had no idea what was going on,
And so we brought the dog in and we were
like through the household together with the dog, and when
we got to her room, he started barking at the
closet and we were like, oh my god, you know,
like Jesus, like they must be there or whatever. But
we opened it and there was nothing, but like the
(30:50):
dog kept barking. And so well that night we alls
like slept together, and you know, but yeah, like my
sister my mother like said they saw like, you know,
in Mexico, like they say like bruques, which is those
like balls of light that like shoot around. They saw
(31:11):
a bunch of those in that house. I don't remember
seeing like anything myself, but it definitely was a scary.
It definitely felt haunted, you know. And so yeah, I
mean like, uh yeah it was. It was definitely that
(31:31):
house that had some sort of procence or energy or
whatever it was.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
But it definitely was something.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
And so yeah, I mean, and so it's what like
we were saying at the beginning, like you believe and
you not believe, but you kind of like believe, you know,
because it's like, well you felt it and you know,
and there's something right, and so those experiences kind of
like stay with you. And also living in stat we're
(32:00):
supposed to see, which is like an older city. Well
Mexico City is sold too, but like there's more diversity,
but like it just felt more rooted, maybe in ghosts something.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, did you all did your family build that house
or did you like it was already there and you
moved into it, Like do you know any history of it?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Now, my parents built that house, uh, and we were
supposed to move there fully, but it just didn't work
out and we had to move away from Saint Louis.
But but yeah, but like that area I think more
I mean, like I think someone in my family said
(32:49):
like it had to be built, like it was built
on top of like a.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Burial site or like.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
But I don't know if that just like what they
feel or if there's any truth in that, but it
feels that area that had so I can't so like
La Florida, that area where we lived, it was built
by I can't remember exactly who, but it was like
(33:20):
a family that that came and they kind of like
wanted to have like a more like foresty type place,
so they kind of like made it like artificially in
a way made it. But it kind of like grew
and it had like these huge beautiful trees that had
been living there for years and years. So so it
(33:41):
was kind of like an oasis where maybe there shouldn't
be an oasis.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I don't know. So it had like.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
From its inception, it had like an artificiality that it's
very interesting. But by the time we moved there, it
was like an old time and like all the trees
had taken root and it's like a very beautiful thing.
But it was also like different from the rest of
the state. I'm kind of like made up in a way.
So that's interesting, I think.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, maybe like this, this disturbance to the land, you know,
CAUs something to show up and retaliate.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
So, as was mentioned in your bio earlier, you are
working on your next novel. Can you share anything about
your next novel.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
It's it's almost there, it's not yet completed, but hopefully
very soon. So yeah, I mean I think, I don't know,
it's it's weird. I think it kind of I don't
(34:55):
think like monstre La is like full on horror horror,
you know, but he definitely has horror elements, and I
think this new novel does. I mean it also kind
of like takes on like elements of the supernatural or
(35:17):
what it means to be like a different creature and
things like that, but it's not. But it's also not
horror horror, and so yeah, I mean it's also family
in a different way. So like, yeah, I mean I'm
excited about I don't know, I haven't said anything very specific, but.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
But yeah, no, no, I'm into it. I'm into the mystery.
And also I think you gave us just enough. I'm
also very excited about it. I just thought of something too,
and I wanted to ask you to speak to the
listeners about it in another interview.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I did a lot of research, by the way, for
this game.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yes, I can see. I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Thank you so of course.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
And I mean also just I love hearing you talk
about your process and your writing and and so you
part of that process you spoke about in writing once
to Leo that you spoke to I think people, or
you listened to shows or podcasts or I'm not exactly,
but you consumed something about like grief. Because the way
that you talk about grief in this book is it's
(36:22):
so good and I feel like a lot of horror
uses grief or uh yeah, a lot of people that
write about grief they use horror basically as like the
vehicle or the analogy. And I've had the other interviews
on here that have done something similar, but it's so
interesting to see how everyone does it, and especially in
once Cdelio, I think it was an amazing take on grief,
(36:46):
and so I wanted to ask if you could share
your process on like the research that you did to
write about that.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
I mean, I think grief comes up comes up a
lot in horror just because horrific itself. Yeah, you know,
so it makes sense. It's like they go hand in hand.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
And I think.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
So personally, I haven't suffered like a loss is big,
you know, like losing a child, and I don't have
kids or anything, so like, I don't know the experience personally,
but I did. I listened to two testimonials from people
that have lost children, and I think what you get
(37:30):
from those is that everybody kind of like lives it
in very different ways. And I think that's what also
like led me to think of different voices in the
in the in the book, just because everybody kind of
has like their own way of dealing with such a horrific.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Event, and then.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
You pull on your other like your own personal experiences
with grief, right, Like, maybe it's not exactly that, but
in a way, in different ways, we all have dealt
with grief and so just kind of like tapping into
those feelings. I'm kind of like it was very interesting
(38:20):
to explore from different point of views, just because it
allowed for grief to take different forms and to to
kind of like understand that there's no right.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Or wrong way to do it. And also for Maggos,
I think.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
I love Maggos. I know, like not everybody loves Magos,
but I do. And she takes She's the most active
I think of all the characters in the book, and
she kind of like takes maybe not the best way,
but she takes the reins of life, you know, like
she's not gonna let anything like come in between her
(39:06):
and what she wants or what she thinks she wants
or what she thinks.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
It's supposed to happen.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
So she she does a lot to kind of reshape
her world, and that to me is super interesting. And
I think whereas Joseph is more passive in his grief,
in the way. It's like he's just kind of like
letting it like go through him and kind of like
(39:31):
letting it take its course, maybe not a more traditional way.
I don't know if that even is the thing, but
but that was very interesting to me.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Also, like that justaposition of people understanding.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
And also for Monsterdio, there's a grief in because Monstudio
is not Santiago, but he feels.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Like there's there's.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
A process that he has to go through, which to
me felt a little bit like grief of like letting
go either he had to let go of him being
a monster, like hiding that for or letting go of
his family in a way, and just like their expectations
and all of that, and that it's also kind of
like a loss.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
And so yeah, I mean I think.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
And grief is such a Poachent engine right for for
a narrative, So yeah, I mean, it's it's not something
I would always want to do, like because it's a lot,
but I also tried for the book to have levity
(40:45):
because I think grief is also not all suffering, right,
Like there's moments it's weird and layered. Yeah, And also
grief is a lot about love, right, that's where it
stems from. Because if we didn't love things or people,
we wouldn't grieve for them. So I wanted it to
(41:10):
be really about love.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah. Wow, thank you so so much, and thank you
for your time today.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I really appreciate it absolutely. Yeahs.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
As mentioned earlier, we are doing a giveaway together, which
I'm very excited about. So if y'all are interested in
winning a signed copy of Monstiglio, you can do so
by following both head Out at at Hello dot Samanito
and myself on Instagram. I will make a post and
I will tag head Out of the on there so
(41:43):
you can follow both of us of course, like the
post and tag one of your girl friends in the
comments so that we can choose a winner from there.
And if you all cannot wait to win a copy,
I highly suggest running out and picking one up if
you haven't yet. It is an amazing, amazing book. I
truly enjoyed it, and I truly truly enjoy all your
(42:04):
other writing as well, which again I'll be linking in
the description so that people can read that before we go.
Can you please let people know where they can find
you and your work?
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Yeah, so you can follow me on Instagram at Hello
dot somni too, or you can visit my website which
is dot com and I have like links to my
stories and two upcoming events even though I don't have
any right now, but like there will be.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Some hopefully.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
And so yeah, and other interviews I've done and things
like that, so you can check that.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Out, all right.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Thank you again so much for your time today. Thank
you for having me of course, of course anytime. Welcome back,
(43:05):
girl friends. Thank you so much for joining us for
today's episode. Again, if you have not had a chance
to go and pick up a copy of Monsterlio, I
highly highly cannot recommend it enough. It is such a
good book I didn't even show on camera earlier. You
can see my little tabs here if you're watching the
video so you can check out more of his short stories.
I'm linking the two that we spoke about in the
episode description. And again, if you would like to answer
(43:28):
the giveaway, you need to follow both of our accounts
on Instagram, like the post and then tag a girlfriend
in the comments. And we are giving away a signed
copy of Montsterdelio. So very excited about that. Again, please
subscribe to Sustal's YouTube. That's YouTube dot com slash at
sustal podcast, which is the handle for every social media
platform for Sustal, where you can follow for any and
(43:49):
all updates on the shows and giveaways. And as always,
if you would like to hear your own story on
a Letters from the Beyond episode, please visit the link
at my link tree that linktr dot ee slash susto
and you can submit your story there or by visiting
sustal podcast dot com. As always, if you would like
to support the show, the easiest way to do so
(44:10):
is by engaging wherever you are listening, liking, subscribing, leaving
positive ratings and reviews, leaving comments, sharing with your own
girl friends, and if you would like to support with
money dollars, by signing up to be a Patreon where
you can listen to episodes early and ad free, and
depending on your tier, you can get the video versions
of the episodes. You can do so by visiting Patreon
(44:32):
dot com slash Sustal podcast. A big shout out to
this episode's patrons. You are Liza, Sadie Rachel, Alejandra Luth, April, Djosette,
Sam Mandy Jules Laurigenie, Monica desire c Ashes, Nedesa, Rachel Asusena,
Marlene Chata, Laney desire A, Carla Archergado, Vanessa, Mariza Nieves, Manormal, Iris, Mad,
(44:57):
Floored and Selina. Thank you all so so much or
your support you keep this little on cityle all going
and thank you to everybody for listening. I will talk
to you in the next one and until then not hostas. Bye.
A girlfriends, it's me Adrian or Aiden. Either way, I
am still your host and you are still listening to Sustal,
the podcast of paranormal folklore from Latin American and Hispanic cultures.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Now right off the bat.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
As you may have seen in the title, we have
a monstrous special guest today that I'm very excited about.
But before that, if you are a best girlfriend on Patreon,
then you have the option to watch the video version
of this episode. And speaking of video, Sustal is now
available on YouTube and YouTube Music, meaning that it will
(00:58):
be available as a podcasts, So like every other podcast platform,
new episodes will be populating on YouTube and all. Though
video versions of the episodes will remain a Patreon exclusive.
The audio version of the episodes will be on YouTube
and YouTube Music. But I will be making videos. It's
(01:19):
something that I've always enjoyed doing, so you'll see some
content on there that is public available to everybody. It
might be Suster related, it might not be. I just
want to have fun with it, and if you all
have any ideas for me, please feel free to.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Send them in.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
You can subscribe by visiting YouTube dot com, slash at
Soustal Podcasts I am excited to.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
See you there.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So moving on, I want to let you know that
my guests today and I are hosting a giveaway, so
stay tuned for more details on that later in the episode.
And without further Ado, let me go ahead and introduce them.
(02:02):
Headaudo Samono Gordova is a writer and artist from Mexico City,
living in Brooklyn. He's currently writer in residence at Fordham University.
He got his MFA from the Helenzell Writer's Program at
the University in Michigan. He has studied at Breadloaf as
a work study scholar and fellow, and at the Tin
House Summer Workshop. Hidatado is the author of Monsterilio, which
(02:23):
is now one of my all time favorite books and
I have it here. The book published in twenty twenty three,
in case you haven't had a chance to pick it
up yet, Monsdrilio is a thought provoking meditation on grief, acceptance,
and the monstrous sides of love and loyalty. His short
stories have appeared in Catapult, The Common, Ninth Letter, Passages,
North Chicago Quarterly Review, and others, and he is currently
(02:45):
working on a second novel and fun Fact. He's been
known to draw little creatures. Please Welcome to Susto Hirado
Samono Gordova, head out of Though.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Hello, thank you so much for being here today.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Hello, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So in case there is something that I maybe did
not cover in that intro, is there anything else you
would like to let the listeners know about yourself, I think.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
You covered a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah right, yeah, I did my research.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah yeah, and I love it. Yeah. I don't think
I have anything to.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Add perfect, So we'll go ahead and get into the
questions then before I ask real questions because we will
be talking about your writing.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
But I'm very.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Curious about these little creatures that you draw. Can you
tell me more about that?
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah, I mean I just like drawing, like doodling little creatures.
I have on Instagram for them. I used to draw
them more often, but yeah, so it's just like I
don't I don't think I'm like the best illustrator or
drawer in the world, but I like doing them.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Have like well, I can show.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
You like it Toto of a little octopus here that's
so cute, and I have but but yeah, so, I
mean I just like silly little creatures.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I love that did you were you is doodling part
of your writing process as well? Like for Monster Deelio,
were you ever like doodling what you thought maybe m
looked like.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Well there is if you have the book.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Well it depends on what version is it is, but
there's like an illustration I did of like Monsterlia when
he's like a fury little creature. So yeah, I mean
it helps me imagine things, so I will or I
will like doodle maps or you know, like to get
(04:45):
my to wrap my head around how these things.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Are gonna look. But especially for Mons Tralia, it.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Really helped kind of like visualize what the creature is.
Also because mon Studio kind I evolved throughout the book,
so it was helpful to have like a more visual
place for me to go to and kind of like
go from there and kind of like have an anchor,
(05:13):
like a visual anchor. I'm a visual person, so it helps.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
To have that.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I feel like, yeah, I can definitely tell that you're
a visual person in your writing in the way that
you describe things. It's so like I could see them
kind of like being built in my head. I'm a
very visual person too, so I really really enjoyed not
only on Stelio, but all of your writing. And I
also like, I have this version of the book with
this kind of like color blocking on it, and then yeah,
(05:39):
little more Stelio peeking out.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
From the bottom. Yeah, I think is adorable.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Which is funny, right, because this is truly a book
about or one of the big parts of this book
is he's this little monster that's kind of like created
right out of this almost twisted kind of desperation to
hang on to a loved one. And then I keep
reading it, I'm like, he's cute. Yeah. But as you know,
(06:04):
our our culture features storytelling, right, And I'm talking about
like Latin America and Mexican culture, especially ghost stories. And
I've heard you talk about these kinds of stories and
other interviews, So I want to know how much of
that came up in your upbringing and do you think
it's contributed to your own storytelling.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
Absolutely, I mean, just like you said, like, our culture
is steeped and kind of like the supernatural stories, ghost
stories and just like general superstitions and stuff like that,
which come up almost always in casual conversations, yeah, with family,
(06:44):
with friends, and whether you believe them or not, because
sometimes you're like, oh, that's kind of like impossible. But
also it's part of the culture, so it's kind of
like a state of where you accept them as part
of things that are happening and not happening at the
same time. So it's kind of like a like a
(07:05):
system of belief in which you don't have to fully
commit to being like, yes, there are ghosts, but at
the same time you're like, yeah, there are ghost you know.
Like so I love that that there's like a like
a more porous kind of way of thinking about the
world in which is not everything is like super black
(07:26):
and white, and it's like like weird things can happen, right,
you're not completely shot off from it. And so and
also like growing up and reading Latin American literature, Latin
American literature is of course like steeped in magic a
lot of the times, and so that also contributed to
(07:51):
like my like how I was formed as a writer thinking.
I mean, I grew up thinking that literature had to
be my way. Otherwise it wasn't like the literature literature obviously,
like I learned later that there's all kinds of literature
and there's realism and all of those things right.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
But.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Like in my.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Like for me, writing always kind of like tends to
go towards somewhere magical or even if it's not fully magical,
we're definitely that kind of like tests what the limits
of what we perceive is, right, and so and I
(08:37):
also think like it's a fun way. I mean, if
you're gonna write stories for me, super fun to imagine
things that probably couldn't happen. So so yeah, I think
I think culture and also like the Latin American literature
(08:57):
roots all influenced my right obviously.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, I heard you talk about in another interview this
series of children's books. They're like kind of different, like
reading levels in Spanish, And there was this one that
you mentioned about, like this ghost Boy in This Mansion.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And it made me think.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Also I talk about this book, my listeners retired of
hearing about it. But there's this book that I grew
up reading. And I hadn't heard about the series that
you mentioned until I heard you talk about it. But
this book that I grew up with, it's it's called
Stories that Must Not Die and it's a collection of
folklore and fables from the Texas Mexico border. And this
(09:38):
book was read to us in elementary. I have a
copy of the book from like my second third grade classroom,
and the stories in there. There's the story of Laona
of a Latusa, the girl who downs with the devil.
And it's funny because, like you mentioned, our literature is
so steeped in that magic, in that kind of paranormal
(09:59):
world that even at an early age, it's in our
classrooms along with like you said, when we're with family
or friends, the conversation just kind of veers that way,
which is my favorite part of any hangout obviously, is
when you start telling those stories. Yeah, So in reading
Mons Dilio, there were a lot of really really cool themes.
(10:20):
I think, of course upfront, like was mentioned earlier, is
you know it's that it's a story of like grief,
acceptance and love and loyalty. And I know that this
has been brought up in other interviews, but this is
also a very queer book, which I love because I
love the way that you write it and the way
that you talk about it, where you're like, well, yes,
(10:41):
these people they happen to be queer, and that's just
like we exist right where we're out here, and so
I love the way that it's written because it's never
like and they're gay. It's just it's part. It's part
of their lives, it's it's it's who they are. It's
part of who they are. But also I think it's like,
you do this really cool thing. And I don't know
(11:01):
if this is how intentional this was. And I want
to ask you to talk about the parallels between queerness
and M's instincts slash nature, not only maybe with his
own sexuality, but just like as a creature, as a being,
his base instincts, because you've mentioned again in interviews the
(11:22):
connection being told between your wrong and being a monster
and queerness, and you even asked what if a family
had to love a monster? And that was when I
heard you say that. I was like, WHOA, that's crazy
to hear because I connected to that, and I connected
to Monsterilio reading this book like being made to feel
(11:45):
like a monster or a natural and just like on
a personal level. And I've spoken about this very publicly before,
but as someone living with HIV, I been living with
HIV for over ten years now, I've had literally like
people's physical reactions. They throw their hands back and they
and they jumped back, right, So this again, in reading this,
(12:07):
I was like, well, like I felt like a monster
in that moment, and so reading this was like so
basically all of that to ask you kind of your
take on like being made to feel that way and
its relationship to queerness.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Right, absolutely, I mean I think while a lot of
what you just said is exactly how I was thinking
about it, those moments, those moments of reaction that come
from people that are like oh my god, what you know?
Or you know or even more subtle moments, right, Like
(12:46):
not everything has to be like h so dramatic, but
like moments that you feel other or like you don't
belong and you can't like really speak about who you are,
right because it's not what people expect or it's or
it feels like especially when younger, like if you were like, oh,
but I'm gay or whatever, it's like why do we
(13:08):
have to deal with this now? Right?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Like people were like, you.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
Know, like.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Trying to not engage with it or something, but it's like,
well but it's who I am, right, It's not nothing
to be so like reserved or not wanting to engage. So,
I mean, I think all of those things and I
think queerdom has always been linked to monsterdom in some way.
(13:37):
I think like from the idea of like queer people
really engaging with monsters and kind of like when when
there's a monster in like a book or a movie,
like queer people almost always identify with the monster rather
than like the heroes or whatever, you know, like because
there's like an innate feeling of how society has like
(14:03):
made us feel that we don't belong and that's exactly
how monsters feel right when they come into like the world.
So I thought being a monster or like Monsterlia actually
being a monster, and actually not, he in my mind,
he doesn't dislike being a monster. He just made to
(14:23):
feel that he should dislike being a monster because if
he shouldn't, you know, eat.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Or whatever, you know. But he himself is not. He's not.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
He's not hating that part of himself. And so it's
that part of like being like do I listen to
everybody else and kind of conform to what they want
of me because it's less dangerous obviously, like monsterrealia is
taken to like like an extreme degree, right, But it's
the same idea of like do you lessen yourself to
(14:59):
kind of like not ruffle any feathers and so other
people are comfortable and not you, or do you like
accept that you are who you are, even if other
people think you're a monster, and you just kind of
own it and be like, yeah, welcome, Maybe I am
a monster, but I don't care, you know, that type
(15:19):
of thing, and so that I think it's absolutely related
to a queer experience, and so I was very interested
in that. And I was also very interested in that
the characters like their actual like expressions of queerness in
sets and rheumantic relationships and all of that, those are
(15:41):
not challenged because I wanted that part of the world
to be to be just natural and be like, oh,
in this world, that's not an issue or that's not
something that jumps out at anybody. But there's definitely the
link to queerness in how monstream you always perceived in
the world and how he thinks of himself. That kind
(16:04):
of like acceptance for want, like self acceptance. I'm kind
of like just deciding why you want, how you want
to navigate the world.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Right, Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I love that you said that he he doesn't dislike
that part of himself, and maybe I am a monster.
And I feel like that is a point in so
many people's lives, I think, just in general, but especially
for people that I certainly have met that point a
long time ago where I was like, you know what,
Yeah I am I am a monster? Now what like
(16:38):
what are we going to do about it? And so
and I love that part of in this book because,
like you said, said, of course it's in this exaggerated
kind of situation, but it was so cool because I
can see that in his development when we get to
his kind of point of view and he's talking about
how he like unhinges his jaw and it feels good,
and he does it when he's alone because because it
(17:00):
does feel good, but he's away for you know, I
guess from other people looking at him or judging him.
And so yeah, I really I love that idea of yes,
I am a monster, So where do we go now?
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And so in reading your work, aside from one Stelio,
I saw recurring themes of like what people would call
body horror or gore death and transformation and sex. And
you seem so connected on what people may describe as
like on a primitive level or primordial or like base
(17:47):
human instincts. However, I also see those things coupled with
love and romance and beauty, And I was talking to
my boyfriend earlier about that and how I feel like, like,
in a issue eighty one of American Short Fiction, you
have a short story in there, a selfle pointed safe
(18:07):
keeper of beauty and the way that you talk about
I'm just going to read a sentence here. It says,
when I try, I only picture his exposed organs, a
purplish beating heart, his ballooning lungs, bulging eyes, exposed teeth
perfectly crooked, and the fibers of his muscles wound tight
enough to hold him upright. It just feels like I can,
(18:28):
like again, I see these I see these organs like
popping into my mind building this person. But it feels
like a faberge egg. I don't know, It's like it's
like nice and pretty and like the way that it's
kind of like structured in your writing. So yeah, I
wanted to hear you speak about the connection between those things, and.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Just like, how do you do it?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
How are you able to like talk about these things
in honestly truly like a beautiful way?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Thank you, and I also thank you for reading A
Self Appointed Safekeeper of Beauty because that's a very recent
story and I love it.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
So yeah, I mean, I'm very interested obviously in the
physical and so Australia deals a lot with hunger, and
I think hunger in very many different senses, right, like
literal hunger and like sexual desire and all of that.
And I think, I mean, for me, like the body
(19:29):
is very important, and we as humans are not just exercises,
like intellectual exercises. We come in a body, and a
body is like a lot you know, like both great
and also awful a lot of the times.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
You know, like you have to deal with a lot of.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Stuff, and you can also like get a tremendous amount
of pleasure and joy from your body.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And so.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
In my stories, I like or like in my writing,
it just comes naturally to kind of like see the
body and kind of like feel present, like flesh presence,
I guess. And I also think sometimes with mons Tralia,
I'll read like a review or something it's like, oh,
(20:20):
it's great, but they didn't need to have sex in
it or never, which is like yeah, I did you know.
It's like talking about all these things about desires and
hungers and like things that you want for yourself, and
sex is a big part of that for a lot
of people, and so and I think for my characters
(20:41):
it is in different ways. But that expression of body
is very important. And also because a core thing for
Monsterlio the character is his body changing, right, and so
for other people, so people comments on it, you know,
(21:03):
directly or indirectly. There's a lot that people want to
do to his body, good and bad. And so it's like,
but it's my own and what does that mean, right,
and how do I express that? And also his instincts
(21:23):
and his desires are in his body, right, and so
it's not separate. And so for me writing about bodies
and about physicality and what you call like primordial things,
it's very important. I love thinking about like what makes
us human, like beyond like reason and all of that,
(21:43):
like more like the more biological and animalistic things that
we have, and how we build upon that, like beliefs
and structures and systems that help us and sometimes or
many times hinder us from experiencing the world. But it
(22:04):
all starts in being like creatures of flesh and blood,
and you know, and so I think for me it's
super interesting to think about bodies and what we hold
before we start making stories or like reasoning about them.
And then that just the position into what we like
(22:27):
maybe leave or not believe, and what we can create
or not create. And so yeah, I think it's super interesting.
And obviously, as I said in Montsreela, it was super
interested in hunger, and hunger is one of those like
primary or primorial things that we all have, right and
as in society or like in our societies, we're taught
(22:52):
to kind of like always mitigate hunger or control it, right,
literal hunger, like don't need that much, like you know
what you eat. You know, like there's a whole industry
and like sayd Collier around like eating. But also sex,
obviously sex is super controlled and super it's like such
(23:13):
a topic for humans, which is super interesting, right, And
so those things for me are super really really interesting
and something that I that I explore often in my writing.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
I also want to give a shout out to another
of your short stories, The Smiling Man, which was in
the twenty twenty four Fall issue of The Columbia Review.
God that story was just so good, and again just
mention of like hunger and the Flesh, and I kind
of like, I wrote my notes here, and so I'm
curious about your your idea on this, because this is
(23:55):
something that everyone can read right now, and I highly
encourage it. But I wrote here that there's this thing,
this monster that takes pieces of you, and not everyone
can see it, and even if it starts to take
pieces of them, they cannot always see it. And sometimes
it rids you of them entirely, and you try to
tell people about it, but then they don't understand, so
(24:16):
then you keep it to yourself, and then someone finally
can see it and they can help you fight it.
And I honestly I got teary eyed when I read
it because I was like, this is a beautiful romance story.
This is a rolling story. And I think maybe on
like the surface, someone would see some of the words
and hear some of the descriptions or what's happening, they'd
(24:37):
be like, no, this is a scary story. And I mean,
I think it can be both. But I thought it
was just such a beautiful story about love. When I
got to the end of it, and I was like
holding back tears because it was so so good. So
I don't know, I would just like to see if
you would like to say anything about The Smiling Man.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Yeah, oh well, thank you again for reading it. And
I love that story a sorry. I wrote a long
time ago and it has gone through like many revisions,
but I really like it, and you're absolutely right. It
is to me also like a romance story. It's a
love story, right, and I wrote it that way, and
(25:17):
it's it's like a or you could say it's like
a horror story with a happy ending like that. So yeah,
I mean, and I think it's all about physicality. I
think that that's one of those stories that I wrote,
and I was really really thinking about bodies and like
(25:41):
consuming and what it means and also why you owe
yourself or what you owe to somebody else, right, And
also I think so the Smiling Man like that idea.
So when I was very young, well young it like
(26:05):
I don't know, maybe like eight or nine or something,
I got like a really nasty like stomach virus or something,
and so I was I had like a really high
fever and I was delirious for a while, and my
mom says, I said, like I was seeing like a
(26:25):
man with a hat in the room. I can't I
can't really remember that because I was sick, I guess,
but but that stuck with me, right, And so in
that story, there's like a man with a hat in
a room, and that's the Smiling Man. So that's where
(26:47):
that comes from. And also obviously it reminds me of
like the Babba Duke or you know, other creatures like that.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Or I said, no.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Name from Spread It Away, No Face, no face. Yeah,
So like creatures like that it reminds me of. And
so it's like a very mysterious presence that you don't
know if it's good or evil, or if it's going
to help you some or like really like destroy you.
(27:22):
And so I was like really interested in that. And
as you know we talked about I love creatures, and
so I love thinking about what they can do or
not do or what they mean.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Oh my god, yeah, I just I was. I love
that story so much. It's so so good, and I'll
be linking these things also in like the episode descriptions
so people can go read them because yeah, so speaking
of the Smiling Man. In another interview that you did,
you told a story and I thought that at first
that they were related, but I'm hearing out that they're not.
(27:57):
But you told a story of when you were with
your family living in San Luis, Potosi, that your sister
claimed to see a man in her room, and so
I was wondering if that had inspired this story at
all in the story of the Smiling Man. But it's
a different, i think, equally horrifying story you're seeing this man.
(28:19):
But I mean for the listeners, if you could tell
that story about what your sister saw, and if you
have any other scary stories or encounters with the paranormal,
we would love to hear them.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Right, So.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Maybe it did actually, like maybe in one part of
my mind that also inspired those Smiling Man, you know,
like it's like a collection of things that inspire you,
and like you never know exactly who are you're pulling from,
but probably like that's there.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
So we were living in Sandy, Potosi.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
We only lived there for a year, and for those
people that don't know, it's like a city more towards
the north of Mexico, and we lived a little bit
away from like the actual city. We lived like in
an other part that it's it's called a Florida, and
(29:11):
it's kind of like a little bit secluded, and it
was it's very like there's a lot of trees in
like a state that is more deserted. So it was
like nice, and we lived in a big house, but
most of the time, because my dad had to be
working away during that year, it was mostly my mom,
(29:33):
my sister, and I living there, and so it just
felt as kids, it just felt like it was haunted
or something.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
It just like like everything felt like very solitary in
a where And I think my sister, she's older, and
I think she like lived like she was more in
tune to those things. I don't know, but like there
was one night that she started screaming in the middle
of the night and she's like, oh, there's a man
(30:08):
in my room. And so we all came to her
room and we brought like the dog in and everything,
and so like just because like we didn't know if
like there was actually wasn't man or like because when
we got to her room there was no one, but
we didn't know if like maybe he had escaped. There's
(30:29):
I mean, we had no idea what was going on,
And so we brought the dog in and we were
like through the household together with the dog, and when
we got to her room, he started barking at the
closet and we were like, oh my god, you know,
like Jesus, like they must be there or whatever. But
we opened it and there was nothing, but like the
(30:50):
dog kept barking. And so well that night we alls
like slept together, and you know, but yeah, like my
sister my mother like said they saw like, you know,
in Mexico, like they say like bruques, which is those
like balls of light that like shoot around. They saw
(31:11):
a bunch of those in that house. I don't remember
seeing like anything myself, but it definitely was a scary.
It definitely felt haunted, you know. And so yeah, I
mean like, uh yeah it was. It was definitely that
(31:31):
house that had some sort of procence or energy or
whatever it was.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
But it definitely was something.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
And so yeah, I mean, and so it's what like
we were saying at the beginning, like you believe and
you not believe, but you kind of like believe, you know,
because it's like, well you felt it and you know,
and there's something right, and so those experiences kind of
like stay with you. And also living in stat we're
(32:00):
supposed to see, which is like an older city. Well
Mexico City is sold too, but like there's more diversity,
but like it just felt more rooted, maybe in ghosts something.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, did you all did your family build that house
or did you like it was already there and you
moved into it, Like do you know any history of it?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
Now, my parents built that house, uh, and we were
supposed to move there fully, but it just didn't work
out and we had to move away from Saint Louis.
But but yeah, but like that area I think more
I mean, like I think someone in my family said
(32:49):
like it had to be built, like it was built
on top of like a.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Burial site or like.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
But I don't know if that just like what they
feel or if there's any truth in that, but it
feels that area that had so I can't so like
La Florida, that area where we lived, it was built
by I can't remember exactly who, but it was like
(33:20):
a family that that came and they kind of like
wanted to have like a more like foresty type place,
so they kind of like made it like artificially in
a way made it. But it kind of like grew
and it had like these huge beautiful trees that had
been living there for years and years. So so it
(33:41):
was kind of like an oasis where maybe there shouldn't
be an oasis.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I don't know. So it had like.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
From its inception, it had like an artificiality that it's
very interesting. But by the time we moved there, it
was like an old time and like all the trees
had taken root and it's like a very beautiful thing.
But it was also like different from the rest of
the state. I'm kind of like made up in a way.
So that's interesting, I think.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, maybe like this, this disturbance to the land, you know,
CAUs something to show up and retaliate.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
So, as was mentioned in your bio earlier, you are
working on your next novel. Can you share anything about
your next novel.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
It's it's almost there, it's not yet completed, but hopefully
very soon. So yeah, I mean I think, I don't know,
it's it's weird. I think it kind of I don't
(34:55):
think like monstre La is like full on horror horror,
you know, but he definitely has horror elements, and I
think this new novel does. I mean it also kind
of like takes on like elements of the supernatural or
(35:17):
what it means to be like a different creature and
things like that, but it's not. But it's also not
horror horror, and so yeah, I mean it's also family
in a different way. So like, yeah, I mean I'm
excited about I don't know, I haven't said anything very specific, but.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
But yeah, no, no, I'm into it. I'm into the mystery.
And also I think you gave us just enough. I'm
also very excited about it. I just thought of something too,
and I wanted to ask you to speak to the
listeners about it in another interview.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I did a lot of research, by the way, for
this game.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yes, I can see. I love it.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Thank you so of course.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
And I mean also just I love hearing you talk
about your process and your writing and and so you
part of that process you spoke about in writing once
to Leo that you spoke to I think people, or
you listened to shows or podcasts or I'm not exactly,
but you consumed something about like grief. Because the way
that you talk about grief in this book is it's
(36:22):
so good and I feel like a lot of horror
uses grief or uh yeah, a lot of people that
write about grief they use horror basically as like the
vehicle or the analogy. And I've had the other interviews
on here that have done something similar, but it's so
interesting to see how everyone does it, and especially in
once Cdelio, I think it was an amazing take on grief,
(36:46):
and so I wanted to ask if you could share
your process on like the research that you did to
write about that.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
I mean, I think grief comes up comes up a
lot in horror just because horrific itself. Yeah, you know,
so it makes sense. It's like they go hand in hand.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
And I think.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
So personally, I haven't suffered like a loss is big,
you know, like losing a child, and I don't have
kids or anything, so like, I don't know the experience personally,
but I did. I listened to two testimonials from people
that have lost children, and I think what you get
(37:30):
from those is that everybody kind of like lives it
in very different ways. And I think that's what also
like led me to think of different voices in the
in the in the book, just because everybody kind of
has like their own way of dealing with such a horrific.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Event, and then.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
You pull on your other like your own personal experiences
with grief, right, Like, maybe it's not exactly that, but
in a way, in different ways, we all have dealt
with grief and so just kind of like tapping into
those feelings. I'm kind of like it was very interesting
(38:20):
to explore from different point of views, just because it
allowed for grief to take different forms and to to
kind of like understand that there's no right.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Or wrong way to do it. And also for Maggos,
I think.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
I love Maggos. I know, like not everybody loves Magos,
but I do. And she takes She's the most active
I think of all the characters in the book, and
she kind of like takes maybe not the best way,
but she takes the reins of life, you know, like
she's not gonna let anything like come in between her
(39:06):
and what she wants or what she thinks she wants
or what she thinks.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
It's supposed to happen.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
So she she does a lot to kind of reshape
her world, and that to me is super interesting. And
I think whereas Joseph is more passive in his grief,
in the way. It's like he's just kind of like
letting it like go through him and kind of like
(39:31):
letting it take its course, maybe not a more traditional way.
I don't know if that even is the thing, but
but that was very interesting to me.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Also, like that justaposition of people understanding.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
And also for Monsterdio, there's a grief in because Monstudio
is not Santiago, but he feels.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Like there's there's.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
A process that he has to go through, which to
me felt a little bit like grief of like letting
go either he had to let go of him being
a monster, like hiding that for or letting go of
his family in a way, and just like their expectations
and all of that, and that it's also kind of
like a loss.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
And so yeah, I mean I think.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
And grief is such a Poachent engine right for for
a narrative, So yeah, I mean, it's it's not something
I would always want to do, like because it's a lot,
but I also tried for the book to have levity
(40:45):
because I think grief is also not all suffering, right,
Like there's moments it's weird and layered. Yeah, And also
grief is a lot about love, right, that's where it
stems from. Because if we didn't love things or people,
we wouldn't grieve for them. So I wanted it to
(41:10):
be really about love.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah. Wow, thank you so so much, and thank you
for your time today.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I really appreciate it absolutely. Yeahs.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
As mentioned earlier, we are doing a giveaway together, which
I'm very excited about. So if y'all are interested in
winning a signed copy of Monstiglio, you can do so
by following both head Out at at Hello dot Samanito
and myself on Instagram. I will make a post and
I will tag head Out of the on there so
(41:43):
you can follow both of us of course, like the
post and tag one of your girl friends in the
comments so that we can choose a winner from there.
And if you all cannot wait to win a copy,
I highly suggest running out and picking one up if
you haven't yet. It is an amazing, amazing book. I
truly enjoyed it, and I truly truly enjoy all your
(42:04):
other writing as well, which again I'll be linking in
the description so that people can read that before we go.
Can you please let people know where they can find
you and your work?
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Yeah, so you can follow me on Instagram at Hello
dot somni too, or you can visit my website which
is dot com and I have like links to my
stories and two upcoming events even though I don't have
any right now, but like there will be.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Some hopefully.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
And so yeah, and other interviews I've done and things
like that, so you can check that.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Out, all right.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Thank you again so much for your time today. Thank
you for having me of course, of course anytime. Welcome back,
(43:05):
girl friends. Thank you so much for joining us for
today's episode. Again, if you have not had a chance
to go and pick up a copy of Monsterlio, I
highly highly cannot recommend it enough. It is such a
good book I didn't even show on camera earlier. You
can see my little tabs here if you're watching the
video so you can check out more of his short stories.
I'm linking the two that we spoke about in the
episode description. And again, if you would like to answer
(43:28):
the giveaway, you need to follow both of our accounts
on Instagram, like the post and then tag a girlfriend
in the comments. And we are giving away a signed
copy of Montsterdelio. So very excited about that. Again, please
subscribe to Sustal's YouTube. That's YouTube dot com slash at
sustal podcast, which is the handle for every social media
platform for Sustal, where you can follow for any and
(43:49):
all updates on the shows and giveaways. And as always,
if you would like to hear your own story on
a Letters from the Beyond episode, please visit the link
at my link tree that linktr dot ee slash susto
and you can submit your story there or by visiting
sustal podcast dot com. As always, if you would like
to support the show, the easiest way to do so
(44:10):
is by engaging wherever you are listening, liking, subscribing, leaving
positive ratings and reviews, leaving comments, sharing with your own
girl friends, and if you would like to support with
money dollars, by signing up to be a Patreon where
you can listen to episodes early and ad free, and
depending on your tier, you can get the video versions
of the episodes. You can do so by visiting Patreon
(44:32):
dot com slash Sustal podcast. A big shout out to
this episode's patrons. You are Liza, Sadie Rachel, Alejandra Luth, April, Djosette,
Sam Mandy Jules Laurigenie, Monica desire c Ashes, Nedesa, Rachel Asusena,
Marlene Chata, Laney desire A, Carla Archergado, Vanessa, Mariza Nieves, Manormal, Iris, Mad,
(44:57):
Floored and Selina. Thank you all so so much or
your support you keep this little on cityle all going
and thank you to everybody for listening. I will talk
to you in the next one and until then not hostas. Bye.
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