SUSTO SWAP-A-THON: Parapeculiar

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hey, a girl friends, It's me Adrian or Aiden. Either way, I.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Am still your host, but you are not listening to
SUSTO this week. Welcome to the twenty twenty five Sustal Swapathon.
That is right, I feel like I primed you already
for this. I gave you all the heads up in
the month of December. I am taking time off from
the production cycle of Sustal and I am bringing to
you shows that I think that you will enjoy as

(00:50):
much as I do. So I'm sorry you're probably gonna
get sick of hearing this specific introduction for these next
couple weeks throughout December, but I just wanted to make
sure to mind you all about what is going on,
so that when you hear this, you're not like, what
the hell?

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Where is Aiden? Did he ghost us?

Speaker 1 (01:06):
You get it kidding? I would never do that to you.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
However, I would like to introduce you to some more
content and more creators that I really think that you
would enjoy. If you do, please make sure that you
go to these shows pages, that you follow them wherever
they are available.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
And yeah, I will be.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Back in twenty twenty six. I hope that you are
having a wonderful holiday season. As I mentioned before the
break started, I listen. I'm still online, So just because
there are no new Sustal episodes, believe me, y'all know
I'm chronically online, so you can find me on there.
Feel free to send me a message, send me an email.
I love hearing from you all, and continue to send
in your letters from the beyond by visiting sustalpodcast dot

(01:42):
com or my link tree so that we can have
some fun stuff to talk about come twenty twenty six,
which I can't believe that this year happened already. That's
wild to me. Anyway, we're gonna go ahead and get
into today's feature. I really hope that you enjoy it
and I will see you all in the next year.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
All right back again, here we are, here, we are
What are we talking about today? We are talking about well,
shadows people, shadow Well, what do you shadow beings? Shadow people?
Start there?

Speaker 4 (02:29):
What's what's the language, well, Heidi trademark shadow people, So
I think is that the technical the technical term?

Speaker 1 (02:40):
I don't know. So that's your Heidi Hollis. Who is
I guess this would have been the last episode Heidi
Hollis's episode, which is why we're going to be talking
about shadow people. But also we had a conversation with
our good friend Ryan.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
From e VP Everything Vaguely Paranormal, We love them much,
probably will come out after this one.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yes, yeah, well it was last night. He came over
to the house and we recorded an episode, but we
were just hanging out and I don't think he left
until almost three. Yeah, But we started talking about his
experiences with these shadow beings because we had had that
very similar one at Waverley with the waving, and he

(03:23):
had mentioned something last night that I've noticed in my
encounters with these things, which is you'll be wherever you
are and you'll notice this sort of blackness or shadows
start to overtake a certain area, and you know that
that's almost like it feels like it's forming.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Which I think that is how he kind of described it,
that it's like eventually kind of forms into this shadow person.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah. And then so we're going to get there because
I think I want to know about your experiences and
how often that happens to you and if it's a
situation know. But then this morning we actually recorded an
episode for our other podcast, Rgo at the real ghost
of and it was a listener story and this woman

(04:11):
was talking about shadow spiehadow spiders.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
We're just on a shadow fucking kick right now.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
We're on a shadow kick. But before we get into
shadow anything, let's talk about family. Say on tonight, that
happened a few nights ago.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
So we're just like doing complete one A. Also, do
I like sound weird to you?

Speaker 1 (04:32):
No?

Speaker 4 (04:32):
It sounds muffled, muffled in my headphone.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
I don't know my voice.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
No, I don't know. Maybe my voice is just muffled.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Maybe, but you know, no, it is kind of a
one dye because that was a well probably it was
a really groovy time, wasn't It was a wild experience.

Speaker 4 (04:49):
I don't know if groovy is the word. I would
it was weird as fuck what it was?

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Why didn't you start out with? Because you know, we
had people come over, some of the Patreon family, and yes.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
We occasionally will invite over our par Academy bruves out
to the Para house so we can do, you know,
in person, getting weird. And we did live streaming as
well for our brethren who are are out of state
or not able to make it, because we still wanted
them to be able to participate.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yes, why don't you start though with you had actually
put together a really great way to get things started,
and I think it really set the tone. I think
it really got the people that were here in the
mindset to make what happened happened.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
Yeah, we got witchy with it.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, so yeah, lay that out.

Speaker 4 (05:39):
Yeah. Well, you know, one of the perks of having
people over to the para house is all of my
you know shit is here, so it's a lot easier
to do things like that versus when we're out. You know,
I don't necessarily have like a witch on the go
bag or anything, you know, So that is.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Absolutely something we should note down and you should just
make them and sell them Witch on the go bag, Nichols,
Which on the go bag?

Speaker 4 (06:02):
Which on the go for the witch on the go anyway.
So yeah, I personally, anytime I'm doing any sort of
spirit communication, whether it's you know, some sort of working
or seance night or even the investigations that we do,
I personally would love to be able to do something

(06:23):
like this at you know, at the beginning of every
single one of our investigations.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Honestly, but well, I think it's actually something that you know,
we've talked about a lot, and I know the time
that you did it that I'm reminded of is when
we did Stonebrier, and I mean we definitely had a weird,
weird time there. But yeah, I remember you came in,
you did that whole well I did it.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
There for it was more like cleansing and containing purposes.
I did more of a binding there to try to
help them out. But yeah, so I wanted to do
I just wanted to do something special and do a
little intention setting, but kicked up a few notches. Because

(07:08):
when we're talking about something like seances or even just
spirit communication in general, whether or not you identify as
a medium, I mean, intention is everything right, And I
think really just getting into that headspace of communication, I

(07:29):
think there's something to be said for that, you know.
And even when we go to locations when I'm going
to do a walk or something, typically you'll see me,
you know, I'll kind of like sit or lay down
somewhere or whatever and kind of just get in tune
with the energy of the place.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Well, it's the same reason we use certain devices and
techniques to try to put you in a different brainwave.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
State, altered head headspace, yeah, altered brainwave states. So that
was kind of the intention for that was to get
everybody in the zone, if you will. So, yeah, I'm
trying to remember the ex I mean, do you want
me to spell out everything I did or like what
we did overall?

Speaker 1 (08:06):
I remember a lot of it. It was a whole
group exercise. You know, you had the key. Everyone passed
that around. That was great. You had them all right
down the question that they were wondering for the evening,
and then that was all burned with. They would pick
a coin and put that in.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
We well, we yeah, so we we burned it, but
specifically when we were burning it, we burned the question,
you know, releasing that into the ether for the spirits.
But we did that in conjunction with also giving offerings
to the spirits. So everybody, you know, put in some
coins to the cauldron. We put in some herbs that

(08:38):
are good for honoring spirits, ancestors, whatever, pass it around.
And then yes, I used some one of my personal
oils from my collection, like a Spirit Speaks Psychic flying
Oil custom blend that we had everybody use and for
me personally, I like to put a little bit in

(08:59):
my hands in my palms and rub it together and
then also smell it because I'm a big you know,
sense senseshoeal person.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Also, do you think the oils are important because of
anything other than that sensual I say sensual, but sense right,
that sensory part of it, like the smell, the rubbing
it on, Like is that a big part of it
or do you think it's like the herbs coming together
to make this magical potion.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
Well, for me personally, I feel like anytime you're able
to involve all of the senses, ideally, it's going to
make it more potent and powerful. Like when we're talking
about doing something like altering our brain wave states, you
want to try to hit all of the senses right.
And so we had the music going on in the
background that's really set in a mood. We have the

(09:50):
smoke going from the incense that we're burning. We have
the you know, we're feeling the coins and putting that
in and hearing the sound of the coins dropping into
the cauldron. We're seeing the candle light flicker because we
were doing this only by candlelight. We did set a
circle as well, and then we have the oil and
we're smelling that, you know, it just it's a whole,

(10:12):
you know, all encompassing. So yeah, making sure that we're
giving offerings for the spirits.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Which I think also you know, if I'm being honest,
I think a big piece of that is it also
gets you in that space, right. It's another ritualistic thing
to do where you think in your mind like if
I'm giving this offering, like this is something that's going
to help, like this is something that's going to bring
about what I'm trying to.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
Do well, right, And I think also from the other
side of it too. You know, anytime I do a
working or anything, and typically anything that I'm doing, it
is using spirits. And I did actually even bring down
my personal skull cap that I use and that I
work with. Yeah, so I did bring that down as well,

(11:01):
because that's a lot of you know, for my personal practice,
I work with spirits and it's just always you know,
I'm not gonna eat even with you. I'm not gonna
come ask you like, hey, Daman, can you go do this?
You know, big task for me. Thanks, Like, okay, you're gonna.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Into a spell I don't know about to give you
to do that you're gonna.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
Be a bit more inclined to do it if I
do something nice for you first, right, Like I don't know,
maybe I bake you a cake. And then I'm like
if I'm.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Around and you're like a random cakes baked for me,
I was like, what did you do? What did you do? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (11:36):
What did you I've made a couple of cakes we have.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, And actually we'll get to more about your cooking
because of last night. Yeah, we did all these things.
It got everyone in the mood and to sort of say,
in the zone, in the zone, and we had we
had a Weiji board down here, you know, and we
had a radio. So we'll get to the radio in
a bit, because we didn't start with it. We started
with the Weiji board and we had a few of
the people here that we're using it. Think it was
three people, and we started. I don't remember exactly the

(12:04):
chain of events, but I want to hit on these.
So one of the big ones was, you know, like
we said, we had people write down questions put them
and they got burned. Well, I one of the people
that was with us was taking charge of writing everything
down that came through. We kept referring to them as
the scribe. And then there was another person here that
I said, hey, your question that you asked, go ahead

(12:27):
and whisper it in her ear. Okay, And on the
other end of the table there's the people using the
Weigia board. Well, they started getting relevant answers to her question.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
Yes, you know, there was only whispered to and the question,
let's just also say, was related to extraterrestrial beams, which
is relevant because of where this goes.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Rachel's wild, she's wild and she's amazing. But yeah, that's
it was a question related.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
Well, it makes sense because she's literally followed by these things. Yeah,
shout out Rachel, we love you so much.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
But what was weird is that after she you know,
whispers the question and then stuff starts coming through on
the board. I think first it went to I think
we got a yes, and then it went to the moon.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Well that's that's the weird one, which was.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
Directly relevant and ended up being essentially a direct response
to her question. But yes, the moon. Yeah, we both
have done many seances, We've done many.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Events, thousands, I'm sure since the yes, and you and
I have talked about this now for the last couple
of days.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
Yeah, because I've never seen the board go to.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
The moon, which is interesting because the way I look
at how these boards work and I and I and
I do feel that that's correct. But you typically you
wouldn't think there's something like in your mind that is
almost limiting you from going to these areas that don't
mean anything typically on the board. So I think that's
why that doesn't typically happen. But this did went right
to the moon image, which she's up there, and at

(14:01):
first you're like what, and then well it was Rachel
and you can see her just like, well she knew.
And then after that we asked the scribe what the
question was. I can't remember what the question was, but
it was a direct Yeah, it.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
Was actually terrestrial related and yeah. Then immediately like, uh, yeah,
that's a direct answer. So we're like, okay, so actually
let's just try this radio, which is so funny because
that's even I don't know, I guess, an odd synchronicity
or coincidence, I don't know whatever the appropriate word would

(14:35):
be as to why it was down here because I
had set everything up earlier and I was getting everything
down and I'm bringing all the ritual stuff down you know.
And I happened to see as I was grabbing the
board from the museum, I happened to see the little
radio and it's just kind of laying there, and I'm like, hmm,
you know, I'm just gonna grab it, you know. I
just like something was like, it's worth put that down

(14:57):
there too.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
I personally like using radios in that scene else environment
because there is something about that static in a candlelit
room with this activity.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
Going on in all the senses, right.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, And I think because of the fact that I
see a radio much like a weedi board, it is
just a technology that is a manipulator or used in
a way to communicate with whatever.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
No.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I was glad we had it. But it's interesting because
before we even started the radio, things were starting to
kind of happen around the house. People were noticing, well,
you could.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
Feel the energy shift. And that's, you know, another reason
why I wanted to do the ritual to kind of
open it up. Because of course, everybody gets here and
you know, we're having wine and we're having snacks and
we're hanging out and like we all fucking love each other,
we're fucking brovin, you know, and so like shift the
energy get in the zone. So I mean you could
feel as we're going through all of this, and then

(15:51):
especially once it starts, the energy is shifting. Things are changing, right,
And I think it started with maybe we heard like
a knock or tap or something, you know, and we
all kind of look like, did you hear that? You know? Yeah, yeah,
I heard that, you know. So it kind of starts,
but then it ends up escalating to a point as
we continue using the radio, which well, well we'll hit

(16:13):
on that, but it keeps escalating to where we're hearing
louder knocks, and then I think we heard the beep
at one point.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Which that is weird. I know we've talked about this
a few times randomly. We never really dove into it,
I think because we don't understand what is happening there.
But we're not the only ones that have heard it.
People come over here and as there is this electronic
beep that will happen in the.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
House, and it sounds like it's like I don't know,
like maybe the microwave beeping or it's it's one single beep.
I'm just trying to explain, like it's like an electronic.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
But it'll happen in different parts of the house. Is
the thing that will move around. And that's a whole
other episode because I've got theories on that. It also
could just be like the CIA listening to us.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
Well fucking probably.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
But so anyways, people are seeing things and over by
the stairs as per usual, Scarle yes, and I think
what people refer to is almost shadow type beings. People
see that, So that is relevant to what we're gonna
be talking about. But then we decided to use the radio,
and I it's a small handheld radio. It's a ratty.

(17:19):
It's really amazing.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Little it looks like a little seven.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
It's a really amazing little radio. If you're into the
radio thing, I mean, it's it's great. It's got your
short wave band, it's even got single side band, it's
got the airband, all of it. But so we turn
it on and I have it to where I've got
the tune button going to where it's scrolling through until
something that's coming through is gonna stop it. So there's

(17:44):
nothing going on. I can't remember what the question was
or what was said. You had said something or asked
a question or something of this effect and then boom,
the radio just starts, starts, and it was something that
was interesting. First off, the noise that immediately started sounded
like again being really into the moon, kind of like
if you listen to recordings of the what they call
like the space music that the astronauts have heard, and.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
Like, well, I think that came a little bit well,
that was kind of in the background. But the thing
that caught me was the like the garbled like voices
that very much did not sound like it was anything
that was English.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
So the garbled voices, I'm that's a tough one for me.
It's I guess what I'm saying is for me, that's
the least of the sort of the three things that
were going on with the radio only because.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
Well, yeah, we'll get we'll get to this shit.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
Oh yeah, But because to me, I understand radio and
I don't just like radio is because of what we
do with this, but I actually collect them and we
have a bunch of them, no, don't we end. So
I think that could have been actual people on the
single sideband or whatever. It could have been a lot
of things. I know, I know, I'm just trying to
be practical.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
I mean, sure, but then you could discount literally everything
aside from the stuff when it started mimicking.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:58):
But but just to set the scene though, because you know,
if anybody out there is like, I don't know what,
I have nothing to compare this to. I'm not sitting
around fucking listening to radio.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Are you going to try to do whatever?

Speaker 4 (19:11):
No, I'm gonna set the scene as to when you
turn on one of these radios. It's you know, when
you switch to a radio channel and it's just a
blank station and you just hear the white noise that's
ninety nine percent of the time what we hear when
we're doing Yeah, yeah, yeah, do that. So that way
they have a frame of reference, because especially and I

(19:33):
think the thing that made this so cool is I'm
so thankful that, you know, everybody that was here obviously
they've been in these sessions with us before, they've heard
us use radios before, they've been here, done the experiments,
so they know what it sounds like. So when we
turn it on and this shit starts coming through, we're
all like, what the fucks? You know, like we all

(19:55):
knew this is fucking abnormal.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
This is what it usually do sound like. So's turn
it on. Let dude's thing, and you're just gonna get
the static, the radio static, the white noise as som Okay,
this is what's typical. This is what we had when
we first started the radio. But as I was basically

(20:19):
had tune going like this, so now it's quiet what
it's doing. When it finds somewhere that anything could be
coming through, it's gonna stop and go right and stop
right there and turn that off. So when it did that,
it was this weird kind of I'm gonna try to
do it sounds horrible, but like, well, I.

Speaker 4 (20:37):
Can grab my phone and play a little bit real.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
You should do that. Yeah, you should absolutely do that.
So when that started coming through, I immediately look up
and Nicole looks at me, and we're like, okay, this
is interesting. And there was there was these voices that
were very audible, but they were kind of I mean,
you'll pull it up right now, Oh, it's very garbled.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
So in the clip that I have, because for the
vast majority of this we were just being present, right,
but at one point it the voices weren't coming through this.
It was more when it was giving us like the
musical frequencies, like it almost sounds like in the middle
of it, you can hear like, I don't know, uh,

(21:17):
it sounds here.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Oh yeah, listen to that.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
School to kind of the middle because you'll, yeah, you'll
start hearing the well, get that sounds like a fucking thumbon.
That's why you hear these whistle tones.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
That is wild receive so you can respond. So that
is that is what that was happening. And there was
in moments like sort of talking happening sounds like between
and it.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
Was very it was very garbled. It almost sounded like water.
I don't know. But when it first started, when we
first turn it on, it was very obviously like like
you can tell when you hit a station on the
radio that you're hearing shit from somebody else or like
you know, cause you can kind of make out the words.
It does sound like distant, but it's kind of like

(22:16):
CBE radio style, you know, like you hear, you hear
the words, you hear what they're saying. But this was
very like garbled, almost like underwater. And it was not English.
I don't know, It's not a language I've ever fucking
heard of.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Well, keep in mind that we are using a shortwave radio,
which can absolutely pick up from other countries. That's the
beauty of the shortwave. Sure, but you're right, it didn't
even sound like another It was weird.

Speaker 4 (22:41):
Yes, And I feel like, you know, sure, I'm not
a fucking linguist, like, are there languages out there that
I have never heard before? Sure? But it did not
sound like anything that I have ever heard. So it
was just weird.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Then you heard, I mean, you know, we played that
a little bit off your phone and you could hear
kind of the whistling happening. So in some at some point,
I'd heard that happening in there, which I thought was interesting,
and I thought, well, because of some of the things
that have happened through us and the way I've been
thinking about this idea of a whistling language, and maybe
that's why this whistling paranormal phenomena happens, which, for crying

(23:16):
out loud, it happened literally last night Ryan heard it
a bunch, and then today we get a message from
an RGO listener that's like, Hey, I'm listening back to
an episode way back, and it's it was.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
The Down Their Rabbit Hale Octagon Hall at thirteen minutes
thirty five seconds and right after you say episode and
there's the whistle. There's a goddamn whistle and it is
two tones.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, So I thought to myself, I'm going to whistle
to see if I can get this to communicate with us.
And I did. I did like a three, like I'm
a horrible whistler put it immediately after I gets made
fews like it did it back in the same sort
of do do do threes? So then all of us
started doing that, and it was responding every time.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
What was like mimic it started mimicking.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
It was either mimicking or it was responding in the
way that we were doing it to. I don't know,
but that is interesting because it happened so many times
and we're all like, oh, man, like these who watch
the video, we're all like excited because not only have
we had this session start when we're getting this really
great responses from the board, but now we've got this
radio and we're whistling at it, and we'll do it two,

(24:22):
three times and it will do that back to us,
and then we'll be listening and you're not hearing it
until we do it again. Then it does it. So
that was very interesting and during this time, people using
the board kept getting ha ha ha ha ha on
the weaed board.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
Well that was it was before we started the radio,
when it was doing not whole laughing.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, and so that was wildly interesting. We kept this
going for a while, yeah, yeah, for a while. And
then as that's happening, people are looking and noticing outside
there's things happening. Yes, And a couple of us went
out there.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
And after we closed the circle.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Correct, Mayor's out there, he's seeing these shadow beings. There's
people seeing like it looks like glowing eyes. They say,
what I was out there and experience and heard was this.
I don't know the best way to describe it, but
like for exhale, yes, kind of like that, and this
is something we've heard in other places. But it was
happening right in the corner of our yard.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
Well, it has happened in the yard before too. Actually,
when Sarah was over here with some of her people
and we did some CE five shit in the fucking
yard and you had headphones on, you were listening to
something at the time, and a bunch of us heard
the same exact thing and it came from it right
next to you.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Oh, okay, so, yeah, that's an interesting thing. So that
that had happened, that was our family sayance night. Yeah,
I don't know. What do you think was happening there? Bro?

Speaker 4 (25:45):
I think that was alien as shit.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Okay, well that's good because I think that a lot.
I mean, in my opinion, again, I think so much
of this is and that is funny because it's relevant
because we had spoken to Heidi Hollis or did we
speak to her after the seance. I'm trying to do
mix up our dates like we're always so busy.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
I don't know we had talked to her. I think
it was two days before, Okay.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
She had talked about how, in her opinion, these shadow beings.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
A company the UFO experience.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
And that they're predominantly what you would refer to as
alien right, which I think there's something there. Now when
I talk about alien beans, I'm probably more thinking of
interdimensional things. I'm not thinking from another planet. But regardless,
it was giving these to like the tone even that
you hear it sounds very yeah Ufoian, I don't know,

(26:31):
you know, and then seeing the shadow things outside.

Speaker 4 (26:36):
Like, dude, what if there's some bro like on the
other side, of the world that just like has a
theoreman and he's like, dude, I'm gonna fucking come on
this station and just make it sound alien as shit
and try to like freak people out.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, the thing is is, as much as I listen
to radios, because again, I don't just look at or
use these things for the paranormal stuff that we do.
I like listening and trying to find interesting sideband state.
I'm listening to the airband all the time to hear
the pilots. I'm constantly looking for CIA.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
You know, Oh, you're never going to find CIA shit
on there, Bro, This is not true.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
I can. I can show you different frequencies of even
just like old CIA spy things that are still in existence,
that their number stations is what they call them, and
they repeat these numbers. So you'll find these weird things
like current well you will. You'll find these very interesting things.
And on the single sideband you get military stuff even
so you can it's interesting. So you can find these things.
I promise you there's a whole.

Speaker 4 (27:31):
Con not going to be anything juicy. I'm sure that
stuff is under lock and key, super protected. They're not
going to be dumb enough to put it on a
fucking radio station that other people could tap into.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
You would be surprised, I'm telling you.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
But but maybe I'm giving the government too much credit.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
I don't know. I think you are. But this thing
that we heard was something that I've not really experienced.

Speaker 4 (27:52):
Really, uh no, none of us have ever heard anything
like this ever.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Does remind me of the sound? Remember I played this
for you a buddy of ours, Mike from San Antonio,
who gave us the mirror that we have in the collection. Remember, recently,
he went on an investigation to a residential place and
this lady's mom had just died in the house and
it apparently became wildly active. And when the mom died,
she'd said, I'm so worried because when I die, these

(28:18):
things are going to come for you. Whatever. And Mike
got this recording. He lost time, his own time during
this recording, and it sounded exactly like that. And I
remember saying it to you and you were like, no,
this sounds like a UFO, like toy or like a show,
and so does that that kind of who you know?
And that was really interesting to me, the lost time thing.

(28:40):
I think that's something we should be checking. I don't know. Anyways,
I think you're probably right that was maybe something that
it was more extra. I don't know what you'd call it.
That was I don't know, I don't know. Something not human, yes,
and not what you would call your typical ghost.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
No, you know ghost akay, like a dead person.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Which I know we're ting to that word nor vocabulary,
but it's just for definitions. It wasn't the same. So
that was interesting.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
It was weird as fun.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
It was weird. And what's really funny about this is
because we had spoken to Heidi. You had like set
some rule. They're like no city five tonight because I'm
I and it just turned into that and they're like
whole mumby Yeah, They're like, sorry, bro, you can't tell
us what to do. You know, you can't tell me
what to do. But so then we when we went
outside and Wayne was seeing these things, you know, we're

(29:31):
looking up in the sky and like, okay, where are you?
So that was interesting.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
Well, something that I also want to note, uh, speaking
of that, and the reason I said that is because
there's the whole Heidi holisies. The word contagion, which I
do think is a very good.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
That stuck with your word for it.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
Well, I mean that's literally what happens. We have people
come hang out with us and then they're getting fucking
whistled and followed by shit, you know, like that's why
Rachel followed by fucking plasmoids. Now, you know, So we
do this.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Back with something because last night was just first I hope.

Speaker 4 (30:01):
So, but we we have that, and yeah, you would
love it, but we have that. And god, I felt
so bad because then Denise texts the was it the
next morning or something, and she's like, my seven year
old said she saw UFO out of her window last

(30:21):
night and that it scared her. And I even asked
Denise because I I had called her later in the
day and I was like, well, did you like mention
anything around her?

Speaker 1 (30:32):
You know?

Speaker 2 (30:34):
No?

Speaker 4 (30:34):
And she was like, no, I don't think I said anything,
you know, I mean she's a kid, like who knows
what they where They might see or hear something, but like,
I don't think she would have heard me talking about it, like,
and I didn't say anything to her, you.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Know, linds up to perfectly.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
That's just wild. So yeah, the contagion effect, you know,
and I'm like, fuck, yeah, I don't want to be
like walking around infecting people, you know, And then you
look at the fucking serious research.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
But like they do, they say that they won't go
to a lot of life.

Speaker 4 (31:02):
Yes, because of the contagion stuff and that it is known.
And this is these are fucking academic people like scientists,
researchers that are like, no, I'm not doing this because
I don't want this shit to fucking follow me, and
they know that it will.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
This brings us to kind of an interesting point. So
I think one thing I've realized that the paranormal community
itself seems to be the only community that is saying
something like none of this is bad, there is no demons.

(31:35):
Well it's it's I think.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
Interesting, a bit too all encompassing.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
And actually academia is saying don't go do this. And
when they say they won't go to hotspots, that means
they're not going into these places and quote investigating because
they think and like, okay, this attachment thing, whereas the
paranormal community is they're going to dive in.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
Well, yes, I think that's different than saying none of
this is bad. People in the paranormal community, I think
mostly note that I think it's more the spiritual love
and light.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
The question then if in your mind, if they really
thought it was bad or contagion could be not positive,
why are they going into them.

Speaker 4 (32:13):
Because it's fucking interesting? Why have we gone back to
hell House so many?

Speaker 1 (32:17):
I don't even put us in the same category because
I think I think that, if I'm being honest, I
think there's an ego thing in that community that most
people probably go in thinking, like they say things like
why I will banish you or I'll do this and
I don't know, or they're trying to just go in
for this evidence. But they really thought that it was
something like the academic people are like, I'm not going
in there, you know, because I know what this is

(32:37):
and I know you know. Diana Pasalka said she would
not do CE five because and she had a good point,
which was, we don't know what we're interacting with. And
the thing is, when we go into a harmed location
and we're dealing with what we call paranormal phenomena, we
and we admit this, we don't know what we're dealing with.
So here we are still engaging this stuff. Does that

(32:59):
just make us an incredibly stupid.

Speaker 4 (33:01):
Yes, probably, we're all fucking dumbass brus.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah. Well, and then that leads me into when we
spoke to Heidi. I don't know where I stand on
her complete sort of idea on this. This is someone
we talked about back and forth, but it's worth noting
she has been looking at the shadow being phenomena for
quite some time. She does look at it through the

(33:28):
lens of her sort of religious beliefs.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
Right, which, of course everybody's going to filter stuff for theirs.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Now in her opinion. You can go back and listen
to the conversation. She's amazing by the way, right, she
was really wonderful to have on. We loved it. She
was really insightful. But I think her opinion during that
conversation was these shadow beings are bad pretty much across
the board. And she mentioned something interesting. She goes, well,
the trend in the paranormal world is to say not

(33:56):
everything's a demon, and and I think what she was
getting at was by saying that not everything's a demon,
what you're really doing is giving yourself more of an
excuse to be like, well, I can go do this then,
versus if you're like this is all very bad, and
it wants to do bad things to me, and if
I engage, it's it's doing bad things to me. If
you think that you're not gonna go do this, you're

(34:17):
not gonna go have your hobby of gohost hun.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
I don't think that's true, because I definitely think there's
something non human and I don't know if if demons
are a thing, probably fucking demon in Hillhouse and we
keep going back, Okay, okay, wow, why we're all just
real fucking dumb brugs. But I think it's also just
a natural human thing to like have that curiosity of

(34:39):
like there's something I don't know, something I don't understand.
I want to learn more, like I want to try
to understand this. And no, not everybody has that, Not
everybody is that way, And yes, sometimes it's probably fucking
stupid curiosity killed the cat.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
I will say this. I mean, for as much as
we have done this together separately everything else, I have
only a very small number of time encountered or experienced
or dealt with something that I would say is on
that level of what people use the word demon to describe, right,
something very negative. It is very rare in my opinion, but.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
Not human and intrinsically.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
But then Heidi kind of made my brain spin around
a little bit, all right, because we were talking about
the shadow beings and her saying that they're all negative, yes,
And I said, okay, well, yes, the few times I've
had experiences with them, it did not feel positive. It
felt negative except for one And I mentioned when we
were at Waverly Hills and there was that shadow being

(35:35):
and I waved that and it waved back, and it
didn't feel negative. Right. She made a good point. She's like, well,
of course it wants you to feel like you're safe.
And immediately, in my mind, I literally thought of like
the weirdo driving an ice cream truck trying to like
talk to little kids, you know what I mean, like,
and yes, what's the they want it. They're not going

(35:57):
to immediately go around. These predators are not going to
go around and make you feel negative or on alert.
You know, they're gonna ted bundy you. They're gonna feel
right well.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
You know, it's the common thing of you know, demons
will often mask or present as a young kid, you know,
to seem like innocent and whatever. Of course they're going
to try to lure you in. It's their sirens song,
you know, come on in the water's fine.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
I'm not gonna lie to you. That is incredibly It's
always I've always thought so the idea of a siren song,
of this mermaid singing me, singing at me, and I'm like,
I'm like, yep, yep, I just I think it's you
know what I'm gonna come. It's hot.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
It's literally my goal in life to be honest.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Oh god, it's so hot, you know. That's like a
very Yeah, that's a i'm on thing to think. But
I have to ask your opinion, and then I'm gonna
dive into some questions regarding your shadow being experiences. So
you were pretty much that conversation kind of affected you
a little bit. Yes, explain can you explain?

Speaker 4 (37:03):
Well? So one of the things for me, I will
preface this my human design right yours too? Actually, uh
I'm sacral uh, sacral generator meaning I.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Could I thought it was sacral. It's better than it sounds. Sacral.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
Get strong gut reactions for things when I know it's
like right or true or like what I'm supposed to
be doing right. And I've always kind of been that way,
and especially you know, uh with mediumship stuff or whatever,
Like it's one of those you've probably heard me say before,
you know, like when I know, I know, you know, uh,
it's kind of one of those moments. And usually I
get these like strong gut feelings, and so a lot

(37:40):
of what she said, yes, again prefacing with of course
she you know, everybody is going to have their own
individual religious beliefs whatever, you know. Sure, however, I think
a lot of what she said when you remove that
and look at it through the lens of whatever you
want to call it, Okay, God, source, the universe, cluck
of consciousness, akashak records, whatever, or like demon right demon

(38:04):
or just something like language, non human whatever, right, So
through these lens, a lot of the times when she
was talking, I just kept getting these very overwhelming and
it has been a very long time, I will say it,
since I have gotten one of these gut reactions like
so strongly where it was just like you know, she's talking,

(38:27):
I'm getting these strong gut reactions like fuck, you know,
like I like just knowing in my soul that like
what she's saying just is true. And there there were
a couple of points where like, yeah, I was like, dude,
I feel like I'm gonna like cry right now, you know,
because for someone like me, I've been having this shit

(38:50):
happened to me since I was a fucking kid.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
We're gonna get there so real quick. So it did it?
Did it affect you in the way that you're at
the point where you're like, oh wow, I think that maybe,
And let's beak, we're talking about shadow being phenomena specifically here.
Do you think that you kind of align with her
thinking that they ain't good?

Speaker 4 (39:13):
So that's a loaded question because we know I'm a
both and girly right and I've always definitely been.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
But she's not right. She's very like they're bad.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
Yes, she's very black and white. Any shadow thing is bad, evil, nefarious,
And I've always very much been kind of like an
eye roll, you know, people who say, like all shadow
beings are evil and they just want to kill you
and blah blah blah. You know, however, I do still

(39:44):
think that some of them, what we might be seeing
is like time slip stuff or like interdimensional slip slip
like stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
You know, are these ones that you say that you've
experienced that, maybe don't feel negative, because I will say
this I the only time, and I've experienced them now
in a sort of a handful of times in a
profound way, and they do always seem negative to me.
They never seem like it's anything that would be good correct.
And maybe even at Waverley, who knows, I don't Maybe

(40:14):
I wasn't even getting vibes at all. It was just
interacting and maybe if I'd gotten closer, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
Well, I think out Waverley, and to be honest, because
this is you know, she's talking about this, and she's
saying her experience and whatever, and this is someone who
you know, objectively, yes, she's gonna have way more fucking
knowledge than I would on this show.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
She's said this since ninety.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
Studying it exactly, and she is getting thousands, thousands, thousands
of emails and messages and that says a lot when
you are able to get stories like that from people
and you're seeing the patterns.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
And that's actual actual research, like it's going out. I mean,
we talked about this, going out to these locations and
ghost something isn't really research, like what is is talking
to experiencers and collecting their stores and seeing similarities. So
she's done that.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
It's collecting all the data.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Because I said her podcast is all stories. I've not
listened to it.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
It's kind of a mix, but anyway, so yeah, you know,
she's talking about these things, and for me, it was
kind of it kind of almost felt like like the
time my therapist was like, well have you ever considered
you might have abilities?

Speaker 3 (41:20):
You know?

Speaker 4 (41:20):
And I'm like, oh fucking It's like that meme with
the lady and she's standing there looking so confused and
you see all the math and everything flying behind her
head and she's like, oh, you know. And so my
brain is flipping through my brain rolodex of like okay
in this time and this time and this time in
this time, you know, and pulling them all out and
like reviewing. And the one that you know we've talked
about most often is that Waverly one right with the

(41:43):
wave and you know, it didn't do anything harmful, any
of these things, right, and it's seemingly nice. However, what
came up for me is, and I don't know if
I included this in the Waverly episodes or not, I
would have to go back and listen. But when it's happening,
when we see it, you hear my initial reactions. Okay,

(42:04):
and we know I the you know, Nicole m O.
What I get shipped for is I don't really have reactions.
I think we've caught maybe two of them. And when
this happens my reactions, I'm like, oh God, oh God,
oh God, Like I don't, I don't. Yeah, I'm like,
I don't even want to.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Look at it.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
I can't. I can't look at this like I can't,
you know, it just and I'm not saying it felt
like bad or anything like that, but it certainly didn't
feel good.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
It didn't make me feel at ease. It felt like
this is something like I'm not supposed to be looking
at this, like I'm not supposed to be seeing this,
Like I don't know what's happening right now. You know.
And of course, in any sort of moment like this
where you're having an experience that is define everything we
logically know, right sure, there's gonna be that kind of
intrinsic like weirdness. I guess, but I don't know. And

(42:53):
that was something that Heidi was hitting on as well.
You know, what are your initial gut reactions when when
these things happen, right, And it's so often and we've
all experienced this where you get that kind of initial
like inkling or whatever, and we ignore it. We're like, oh, no,
this is gonna be fine, right, Yeah, And guess what,
fucking nine point five times out of ten, your gut
reaction was right. And then you're like, oh, I should

(43:14):
have fucking known. You know.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
I typically go with my gut no, And I agree
with her on this. The times that I have had
experiences with these shadow beings, no, they have never felt good.
The time that we were in bed and the one
that we keep calling it tentacles or tar that was
coming from the doorframe, No, that did not feel good
at all. How could that that looks and feels very

(43:37):
It was scary, scary. The time that we saw the
very tall one in the room did not feel good. Right.
The times at Hillhouse in Mineral Wells where the two
times that I saw one on I don't know, four
legs or whatever on all fours crawling at me felt awful.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
Yeah, And see that that I would like to note
for me personally, I put that in a different category.
I think because I feel like that specific entity that
you're referring to is created from us, like an amalgamation
of fear, all of these things.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
So even though it was there before, it was a
place where people go and investigate ghosts.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
I mean, maybe it started out as something else, but
when you see something like that, all you're gonna be
fucking afraid.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
All I know is there's no way to be friendly
with that. It was horrible. I remember there was well
when I did my Lone Wolf there and it happened,
I had to call you on the phone and I
was balling. Wasn't it having a little menty be balling?
I remember when I told you, You're like, are you okay?
How do you feel? I said, it felt like it
was trying to get inside of me. And that was

(44:46):
a weird, horrible feeling. So I didn't like that. Luckily
I did have that and we're going to talk about
this too, but I had that crucifix the Father Lampard
had blessed specifically for me to go into that house. Okay,
So it made you feel like existential talking to Heidi
and we're gonna now then talk about the other side
of the coin of the other sort of opinions on
these these things. But first, and I want to ask

(45:09):
you about this. Okay, we're unfiltered on this podcast and
we're letting people know who we are. Yeah, Actually you
should get some couple of glasses because I'm gonna run
out of that beer and we need some wine. I'm
gonna preface this while you grab some glasses, if that's okay,
But you'd come to me, okay. And this was interesting
after this conversation with Heidi, after the sayings, after some

(45:30):
of these experiences that we have had. I can't remember
how you phrased it, but it was something about geez,
are we just like you know, religious girlies now or whatever?
And you said something to me that I think was
very interesting and I want to touch on because it
was one of those rare moments where I saw you
without this sort of tough guy persona that you definitely

(45:53):
kind of keep on. Yep, which is this You said, well,
that's you, that's the tough guy persona right there. What
I'm saying is, how is.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
That a tough guy persona? Of me saying that's a construct?
You're saying I have a tough guy.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
Persona because it's so different than what you have.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
Resting bitch tone.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, well that's different. You never talked this way where
you said. I Now remember when I was a kid,
I used to pray all the time, and I was religious.
And when I stopped praying, the shadow people came. Can
you talk about that?

Speaker 4 (46:26):
I I'll talk about it. And it's not that black
and white. So, yes, that was that.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Is what you said.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
Uh, not entirely.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
What did you say?

Speaker 4 (46:36):
So I can simplified it significantly? So the yes, I
were both Italian. We both grew up Catholic. You know,
I went through first Communion and Confirmation and all that jazz, right,
and yes, So going back to the you know, she's
talking and my my brain is going through my brain rolodex,
and all of these things are coming up, and I'm

(46:57):
remembering all this shit. You know, I'm like, oh, oh shit,
oh shit, you know, oh shit. One of the things
that I recalled is yes, So growing up religious, right,
you're kind of taught to like, oh, you know, do
your nightly prayers right, and so I I would. That's
how I would fall asleep often, you know, as I
would be laying in bed and just doing my nightly
prayers whatever you know. And what got my wheels turning

(47:25):
is I was laying there thinking, you know, hmm, like
I know, I used to do it every night, And
I wonder because when when I was a kid, right,
I started eventually seeing these shadow things, and I think
it maybe happened, you know, maybe once here again maybe

(47:45):
I don't know, a year or so, a couple of
years it was very like spaced out, but then it
started getting where it was pretty much every night.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Okay, you know, so what do you mean, what do
you when? What was happening every night?

Speaker 4 (47:55):
Uh? My bed being surrounded by these shadow figures.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Sometime looked looked human shapes.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
Yes, it literally looked like a person.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Standing looked like what Heidi said was like, there's the
shoulders and head things ever should call that.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
It looked like the outline of a person, okay, a fool,
like an actual human persona just normal Like I mean,
they would be varying heights, you.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Know, like not overly tall and then overly short. Correct, gotcha?

Speaker 4 (48:21):
And so you know, I don't know if I'm trying
to Obviously this isn't the exact timeline, but it would be.
Let's say, I don't know, maybe first grade I saw
it one time. Then second grade maybe nothing. Then third
grade maybe I saw it one or two times.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
And this is when you're still you just stopped praying.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
When it stopped, well, I don't I don't remember exactly when.
I'm not going to remember that far back. But then
there came a point where it, you know, jumps from
from that to being pretty much every night, you know,
and sometimes it would be one or two standing there,
or maybe three, but more often than not, it was
the entire bed being surrounded. So anyway, I'm thinking, I

(48:59):
was like, fuck, like because she's talking about how you know,
these things want to isolate you and specifically they're going
after people who are gifted, and they want to make
you depressed and weak and all of these things, right,
And so you know they want to anxiety, yes, and
they want to pull you away from your your faith
and all of these things, right. And I do also

(49:22):
want to know I've also was a pain in the
ass even back then. I was the one that was
still always questioning things. I've never been just like blind
faith type of girly. But anyway, well, I think.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
That's a better way to have faith if I'm being honest,
so sure.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
So anyway, so my brain starts kind of putting these
things together and remember these remembering these things, and I'm like, fuck, like,
you know, actually, I think it might be around the
time when I started seeing these things regularly. Maybe that's
about the time that I stopped praying. And there was
also a time we would have to ask my mom
about this. But I think I just got to a

(50:00):
point where I just like, I just refused to go
to church, you know, I was just like, no, I
don't want to do that.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Like that scene in the Omen where they try to
take Damien to the Church's just no. Well he freaks out,
starts screaming and kicking, and they won't. They have to stop,
and they can't get him in a church.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
Yeah, and I would imagine, I mean, knowing me, I
don't think I would have done something like that because
I wasn't you know, dramatic. But uh, well no, I'm
just very you know, I'm gonna say no. And then
you know, I'm just like, it doesn't matter what you
try to do, say what I'm going to do, what
I want to do.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
You keep pushing, the demon comes out, the shadow comes out.

Speaker 4 (50:33):
Yes, So yeah, and so it was just something that
you know that immediately came up for me, and I
was just like, oh shit, you.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Know, like, why did that, though, do you think come
up for you? And I think because the reason I
ask that is an interesting realization for a person to have.
And when you have that realization, I don't know that
you can go back from it. Okay. I think it's
a lot more profound and philosophically deep than you might
even be giving credit for. And when you said that,
the only thing that rushed into my mind was something

(51:05):
that we both witnessed. And we saw this recently, we
and we've talked about it, but it's very important to
this conversation. We had recently set up in our entryway
to the home what I can only describe as a
Marian altar. Something did not like that. Okay, something did
not like that, and it's been popping off.

Speaker 4 (51:25):
Well it it was. It was kind of like a
couple days where things were pretty wild, pretty bad in
the house, to the point where there's there was a
fucking metal cross that we had put on the wall.
It fell off and broke.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Now look before this, before the eye rolls come and say,
well things fall off the wall. No, first off, not happened,
never happened before or since? Correct, right, and this was
right when we put it up, correct.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
Yes, And it was kind of it was almost like
there were a couple of days of kind of like
a final thrash.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
You know. This is around the time we started wearing
the miraculous medallions as where it was.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
The exact same time. Yes, we got it all around
the same time.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
These are important too in this conversation which you're wearing
yours right now, I'm wearing mind right now. We're not
taking them off, have we? Every day we've worn them
since we started. It was around that time and something
was not happy. It's the best way I can describe
it is that Is that too dramatic?

Speaker 4 (52:15):
No? I mean that that is what occurred. Yeah, And
I mean sure we've had little things happen in the
house since then, and obviously we just talked about the seance,
you know, but it's it hasn't been anything at all
like the level it was previously, and none of it,
I will say, and you're gonna know what I'm talking about.

(52:35):
It also hasn't had that shift where it just feels
fucking weird.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Well, I'll tell you, because it's almost like it's not
able to because there's do these things, these things around
our neck, this thing was those things on the altar?
Have they protected it so it doesn't get to that
point and all it can do is throw little hissy fits? Right? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (52:59):
I mean I don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
I mean the story the medallions in general. If you're listening, like,
there's plenty of literature on these medallions and the story
behind it. It is weird well, and the countless stories
of people that have had well, miraculous things happen after
sort of wearing them.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
And I do also want to note for anybody that's
listening to this and you're like, uh, you two have
gone off the fucking.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Deep end, have we?

Speaker 4 (53:23):
So first you can go back and listen. We did
the episode talking about the apparitions.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Let me touch on this because I do want to
point that out. Anyone that were to say that it's me,
I would get very I would debate that because we
are not going off the deep en. We were literally
talking about facts and things. We are witnessing things we
are seeing.

Speaker 4 (53:39):
Well our lived experiences.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Yes, and they're real because other people are seeing them
as well. We started giving out those medallions, didn't.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
We Yeah, we went to the religious shop earlier and
got some more.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
To give out. And it's been interesting for people that
we've given them to.

Speaker 4 (53:52):
Yes, it's just and we did get it. More so
as like this is an experiment, you know, and because
at the bare minimum or just.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
Something else called us to do that. I've thought about this,
and I know that sounds weird, but has something else
called us to do that regardless of what we say
our reasoning is.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
I mean maybe I don't know, but at the at
the bare minimum, and you know, uh, ever since you've
known me, since before, you've known me all my workings
and stuff. I have Daddy Michael stuff, Archangel Michael who
I mean since basically I started my practice, I've always
worked with him. And uh, you know again, like I

(54:33):
am not I wouldn't say I'm a religious person, like
I don't want to church, I'm not whatever. I don't
really like organized religion. I personally think that like.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
See, that's my thing, and that's philosophically. I think we
need to understand that I'm the same way. And I
think that modern organized religion, religion and it's dogma, and
it's hatred, and it's it's picking and choosing, and it's
inability right, uh, to not take the message that you
find in these old texts right for what they are
and and to frame them in a way that is beneficially.

(55:02):
It's ego. It's ego, and you're killing that and you're
killing other people's sort of spiritual experiences by doing that,
and I hate it actually, to be honest.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
With you, Well, you know I have my own thoughts on.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
So you know, I will I will happily debate any
day on this podcast someone who is a modern sort
of who thinks that they're this modern person that goes
through modern Christian ideals because I bet you're wrong, and
I bet I can prove it, and I would love
to do that. But no matter what, there's no way
around this. When we started adding these things this component,

(55:35):
clearly something thinks it's a problem.

Speaker 4 (55:40):
Yes, which I do think is interesting. And we've talked
about this before when we were going down the kind
of you know, the well, when I was going down
the demon rabbit hole and says something all that, yeah,
reading demonic foes.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Well again, you asked me during that time should we
be going to church?

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (56:00):
Yeah, I did. But the thing that I find interesting
and you did. You asked me this question once you are,
like what would have to happen for you to become religious?
Like you're going to church every Sunday, like you are praying,
you believe in this, like this is what you're doing,

(56:20):
you know. And I kind of thought about it, and
my answer was, I guess for that, it would have
to be, say, somebody that I know in love that's
very close to me, like you or whatever, or even myself,
you know, gets literally possessed. Okay, like no question about it.

(56:42):
This person's fucking possessed, like they're speaking in tongues like
the whole ordeal. Okay. Yeah, And we try, let's say,
using some sort of witchy practice and some sort of
shamanic practice and maybe other various religions to try to
do some sort of exorcism, right, and none of it works,
but this one, Yeah, have the freakin' you know, Catholic
priest or whatever you know, isn't this close?

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Isn't then close? When I left that hillhouse, lone Wolf
and the rosary gave me crumbled in my hands, Like
have we not seen these signs. Have we ignored them?

Speaker 4 (57:10):
Well? Sure, But here's the thing, though, we didn't have
various religious iconography on you. You know, I had given
you that that cross and uh, you had the cross
that was blessed and like I didn't give you like
a pentagram or you know, I didn't give you a

(57:31):
fucking Marie Levo coin or no.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
But I can say that those symbols which we have
from the museum have caused issues lately, very occult, very
witch based sigils the whole thing, and they've caused issues
that that thing on the wall, like yet that's not well,
the intent was sane, is but it is occult practices
like regardless, like it's it's this sigil work that what
it is is it's taking it from those kinds of

(57:57):
practices are very big on you are the power, right
and everything that's going through you is because of you,
and you're like this god like that is actually the
overarching sort of thought process when it comes.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
To those practice magical practice.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
So it gets away from this idea of source.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
I think that's a bit of an overall statement though,
like a too broad of a statement for it's ego based,
like occult stuff, because I don't not everybody subscribes to that.
I don't subscribe to that. Pretty much everybody that I
know that is actively practicing these things does believe in
some sort of source, universal intelligence, something you want to

(58:40):
call it.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Why do people in modern times never define it? Like
they're afraid to and they use the word spiritual which
I actually I heard someone say this and I had
to agree with it, which was the word I'm spiritual
is actually kind of very stupid because what it's doing
is saying I have no conviction, I have nothing, no beliefs,
and I'm saying that I'm somehow spiritual. But what does

(59:01):
that mean?

Speaker 4 (59:01):
See, I also think that that's it's inelectional, it's extremely simplified,
and I don't think that that's accurate. Sure, maybe some
for some people it's a lazy response, and I mean
maybe most people, it's a lazy response. But here's the
thing that's going to be defined differently based on who
you're talking to.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Okay, so then let's let's loop this right back saying
when we would be closer in the camp of like, yeah,
I'm more spiritual than anything, nothing like we've seen happen
when we put up our Marriyan alter has ever happened
to us? It popped off like it was like, no,
don't do this, do not It's basically like it was

(59:38):
telling us, don't mess with this.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
I mean, sure, but what do we have to compare
that to?

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Uh, that's the point of thing spirituality. When they say
I'm just spiritual, they have nothing to compare it to
because there are no archetypes that they're looking. Because I
said this.

Speaker 4 (59:49):
Talking about specific instances like putting up the marry An alter,
we hadn't done anything like that for any other.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
But you wouldn't if you were just spiritual because you're
not subscribing to any of these practices. What kind of
spiritual you fall under if you're, in my opinion, if
you're putting out an altar for whether it's Daddy Michael
or whether it's Mary or whatever, or if you're like
the people we've had on the podcast that are putting
out like Lexus putting out these different things. I guarantee
you would agree with Like, there's a big difference between

(01:00:15):
saying like, yes, I'm putting out these archetypes, these these
aggrigors that you even said are very powerful at this point,
whether you believe or not, right, because so many people do.
If you're just like, oh, I'm just spiritual, and it
doesn't seem as powerful. And I think I've had this
conversation with some of the people we work with.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
Just disagree with what you're saying. I think that's it's
an extremely simplified way of saying it. Like, I'm not
gonna if somebody asks like if I'm religious or whatever,
I'm not going to sit there and be like, well,
do you have a few hours to sit down and
let me go in depth about this to fully explain everything.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
What would be the point of, like some of our friends,
what they do when they're looking at Paula Miambi or
in these different belief systems and they're going off those saints,
those archetypes, those those deities, those entities, those those those gods.
Why are they doing that? Why would you have to
if it doesn't matter? This is my point.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
I'm not saying it doesn't matter what.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Yes, because people say I'm just spiritual, I don't believe
in any of this stuff. They don't have that figure.
There is no figure that a spiritual person prays to.

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
Okay, well, now you're giving you're giving more words to
this because now you just said spiritual and I don't
believe in any of this stuff. So are you referring
to spiritual and I don't believe in any of this
stuff specifically?

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Correct? Or not even just that Christian religion. But because
if you say that about that religion, you're saying about
all of them, right, Like if you're saying I don't
believe in religions, it's like, okay, well, you don't believe
in the the deities of these practices, and they don't.
They don't typically worship a deity.

Speaker 4 (01:01:43):
But see, I think that even that is too simplified
because saying I don't believe in religion, okay, well you're
even gonna have to define that more specifically.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
It's a leaf system based off of structures that work
for a culture and that they as a believe in collectively.

Speaker 4 (01:02:01):
Okay, but sure you just had to define that though.
That's my point, like, if you say things like this
and you're using these big broad words, every individual is
going to have a different definition of that, and so
how you might interpret somebody saying that is likely going
to be entirely different than what they're actually meaning.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
So one of the conversations we had on here you
and I with I can I think of his name
if he has to know him? Val Well, Well, that
great guy. Actually, I'd love to rehab val On.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
Yeah, and so he's somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Well he used the saints, is what I'm telling you. So,
but those he was folk Catholic and he knew that,
and there was no I'm spiritual, It's I'm folk keefual.

Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
He has said spiritual though, No.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
We talked about it on the podcast. He even said,
and this goes with this person that was listening to said,
when you just say I'm just spiritual, I don't have
this overarching call it, call it religion, called the faith,
call it faith that they believe in. It is kind
of disingenuous in a lot of ways. So he Vow
was like, yeah, no, I'm folk Catholic. It's different than

(01:03:03):
the modern one. So it's different there, but it is
still looking at these saints as real spiritual beings that
have real ties, whereas most people that are just spiritual
or not. I don't see how they can look at
any of these religious practices and if they meld them
all together in a way and they say, oh, I'm
just spiritual. They're taking these they're kind of it's a
very Western thing to do, and we know this that

(01:03:25):
that's just proven, it's a very Western thing to do,
to take away all the religions say oh, And it
feels to me like people that say I'm just spiritual,
they do make it's an ego thing. Not nine times
out of ten it's oh, I can do this or
I can work with this. I'm spiritual, I'm a spiritual
light being whatever, and a lot of your love and
light girls like you mentioned like that. But why is
that that this big Western thing we think it's right,

(01:03:45):
where the rest of the world for thousands of years
has been like, no, we actually have faith and belief
in this. Think about that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
I'm still sticking by. I think what you're saying is
entirely oversimplified and not applicable to everyone who might be
sure some people will fall under that category, for sure.
I think there are definitely some people that say spiritual
as kind of a cop out because perhaps they haven't
necessarily really identified what they actually believe yet. I also

(01:04:16):
think that some people can use it like I'm that's
a term I would use because I'm not going to
be like, do we have two fucking podcasts talking about
this ship? Like that's how am I gonna sit down
and concisely explain my beliefs on that to somebody. So yeah,
it's just easier to say that sometimes that you want
to call it lazy, Sure, fine, it's probably lazy. I
want I want to I'm not going to sit here
and have a fucking three hour conversation. I don't. I

(01:04:38):
also don't like small talk, though, So that's just.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Absolutely I think that's small talk at all. Small small
talk is how you doing today?

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
Sure, small talk like if you're if you're getting to
know somebody or like, sure exactly, but I'm like if
i'm if if somebody's asking me something like that and
passing whatever, I'm not going to go into it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
So just saying like.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
We should have some of these people on Vale again
Alexis again, maybe father Lampard again and asks them like, hey,
what is that difference and see what their opinions are
as well, because there seems to be value in having
these things that you look at because you've instaid it.
The other day, he said, regardless of if we believe
in this stuff. These agrigors are so powerful at this.

Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
Point, yes, referring to things like Mary, Daddy, Michael, all
of these saying Jesus. Yes, at the very at the
bare minimum, they are some of the most powerful agrigors
in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Yeah, because of the amount of belief in them.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
And we have seen even though we are not religious people.
When I say I'm not religious, I mean I know
I do not like the modern version of let's say Christian.
I don't like it. I don't like the modern version
of most religions. I think it's egotistical. I think it's dogmatic.
I think it's problematic, and I think it does more
to get rid of a spiritual sort of side of

(01:05:54):
a person than almost anything else. And I think that
is probably one of the worst things a person can do,
is take part in that. But we have still seen
that something clearly doesn't like when those things are in place. Sure,
so there must be something there, right or am I
just crazy?

Speaker 4 (01:06:13):
Well I'm a boll and girly and I think you
are crazy. But I mean, yes, obviously something also didn't
like it, So you know, I think it's just going
back to the conversation We've had many times belief and
intention are everything right and whether or not we're saying,
like I believe in the Virgin Mary. As you know,

(01:06:38):
I'm super religious and I'm going to church and I'm
worshiping as a deity or I don't know, I'm probably
using the wrong religious terminology because I'm not in that crowd.
But versus like, I'm putting this up because I have
the belief that at the bare minimum, this is one
of the most powerful aggregors in the world. That's still belief.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
The thing would you say, though, as someone who does
let's say, protections like you just brought up. Are you
taking those from some religious practice or are you just
making them up on your own?

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Meaning when you're different things that you like to do well,
you sage and stuff. What practice is that from? That's
indigenous cultures? Obviously, I don't typically what you so what
you do specifically, where does that come from? Did you
just make it up and you didn't take it from
these actual religious sort of groups? What depends on what
you're I'm asking what you do?

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
Well, Yes, it depends on what specific practice you're talking about.
You know, So, like I want Okay, Well you gotta
let me, you gotta let me say the words. Bro,
I'm gonna leave you a bad review. So if I'm
trying to use let's say, I like incense, right, so
maybe I use a dragon's blood incense. I don't know
what practice that's from of incense for Catholic Well, yes,

(01:07:58):
it's it's a bit more ubiquitous than that, like stuff
like I don't know, making my fucking salt mixture with
herbs and whatever in Florida water and putting that in
the bath. Again, that's not necessarily a specific practice, astro.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Are you saying that you and this is maybe not
meant to be challenging, but is a philosophical conversation. Are
you saying that you don't know where the things you
use come from?

Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
I mean, I think that's a bit of a loaded
question because these are more ubiquitous, like probably most organized
religions around the world use some sort of incense. Well definitely, Okay,
so there you go. So it's like you can't say
it's just like like shadow people, right. I know. Heidi
trademarked that, however, and she she might have been the

(01:08:43):
first to use the specific terminology shadow people and put
it out there in a manner of like written formats
and whatever. We're talking about indigenous exactly. This is shit
that has been talked about since I don't know, probably
since people could fucking talk like it's ubiquitous.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Well since we know, because we just brought that up,
that these cultures that saw shadow beings and everything else,
that they always have said the same thing. I don't
know of one culture that's like, yeah, shadow things are
good or bad sometimes depending on the thing. There is no.
There really isn't if you look back at it. Indigenous cultures, Christians,
I think probably any religion never has once said that
those things are either they can be good or bad.

(01:09:22):
They've always no, that's bad news.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
Yes, just like vast majority of them also think that
mediumship is wrong and you shouldn't be doing this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Now, let's actually let's dissect that.

Speaker 4 (01:09:33):
Maybe that's why I'm fucking haunted and have shadow people
around my bed.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
No, I think what's wrong about that is this What
they're saying is very simple. There's two ways to do that,
and we've talked about this the mediumship. There's one way
that's ego based, which says I am able to do
this versus I don't know what I'm connected to, but
whatever I'm connected to is responsible for this. That's how

(01:09:56):
you talk. That's your language. I've never once heard you'd
be like and like what's your name that we watch
and laugh about the psychicon TV capudo is it?

Speaker 4 (01:10:07):
Ah? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:10:08):
Yeah, Long Island medium, Long Island medium over here, right,
and yeah, I guarantee someone like like, I've got abilities
and I was born with the abilities, versus saying like, yeah,
I was born somehow more sensitive to this, but whatever
it is is not me, has nothing to do with me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
And that's the language I've heard you speak with the mediums.
I don't like the mediums I challenge. The mediums that
I can easily prove wrong are the ones that are
ego based. Let's be honest here, And I do think
that's what these old texts are saying when it refers
to mediums and things like that. It's taking away this
source as the power and making it somehow you versus
you being connected and a part of.

Speaker 4 (01:10:41):
That, which actually is a very religious thing to say yes, yes, yeah,
that we we do not have the power.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
I don't believe we do, because even if you're not religious.
And let's say you just believe an intelligent design, right
like that there's some sort of a source. And I
guess you wouldn't. Most people wouldn't. That don't relgious. But
if you do, you have to understand the very simple
fact that like, well, no, we're not. There's we can't
do that, you know, like we can't create a massive
what this is? So no, I think inherently if you

(01:11:09):
understand that, you don't understand it. And because of that,
there's no way for you to be like I can
master it if it's getting rid of that ego.

Speaker 4 (01:11:17):
Yes, and I mean I think this is also you
know why going back to the beach psychedelica, you know,
I was kind of pointing out, I think I was
actually more of the like kind of love and light girlies.
The people that are like, oh, there's nothing evil or
negative or whatever tell people the well I don't. I mean,
it's you can. There's people in all of the places

(01:11:38):
that do this. But yes, it very much pisses me
off right when people say that, first of all, But
to your point of talking about the ego in it,
I think something that is a unique perhaps well not unique,
I'm sure other people have gone this path. But you know,
we've talked about this a couple of times. When I
started doing all of my mediumship training and development and whatever,

(01:12:02):
I was doing it simultaneously to shamanic training. And that
is like, dude, I don't remember how many fucking days,
but you had to do an ego death meditation every
day for like a long ass time because that shamanic
practices that is coming from indigenous cultures. And again ubiquitous,
because pretty much every culture around the world has, you know,
their shaman medicine men whatever, whatever their terminology is for it.

(01:12:27):
And I have gone down the rabbit hold looking at
a lot of them, and it's interesting to me that
a lot of their practices, a lot of the things
that they do is very similar despite being you know,
on the opposite side of the world as each other. Whatever.
But anyway, the thing again, ubiquitous. That's key this this
episode is brought to you by the word ubiquitous, the

(01:12:48):
letter you. But anyway is they're very adamant that you know,
it is not us, right and even like shamanic healing
sesshes whatever, Like, dude, I'm not doing shit like you
are there to literally be the medium. So all of
your training, all of your practices.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
Say that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:05):
Out of the way to kill these That's why we
are supposed to fucking meditate so much, because you have
to be able to get your own shit out of
your head so that way, when you're receiving, you're not
adding your biases and your other bullshit onto it, and
you can just deliver what you're receiving and try to
remove as much of our own filter as we can.
So yes, medium in the literal sense, you know. And

(01:13:28):
that's what a lot of that training and those practices are,
and it is. It's not you know, oh I'm special
because I can do this and whatever, like yeah, sure,
everybody loves a fucking ego boost, right and wants to
feel special, But when when you get down to breast tax,
I'm not doing anything.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
When you get I love it because when I started
going down that route and understanding and going away from
that egotistical way of thinking, it was a bit more
liberating for me than any ego boosts I've ever received.
And I think it is interesting that you're talking about.
I would have loved to see you go through that,

(01:14:05):
to be honest, Like, I'm so interested in your shamanic
uh training part, Like why that even came about? Like
what the hell was that? Like it's one thing to
be like, oh, I'm learning how to tap into the
network and sort of call it, you know, be a medium.
But that's from zero to sixty and like two seconds, like, oh, I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:14:19):
Also degregations also very niche.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
Shomonic, which I will give you this as well most
Western people, I guess I say that, like do study
that stuff. I hear a lot of the ego behind it. Well,
I'm a shamonic trainer. I've never you don't never talk.

Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
About That's why I don't really like talking about it,
because it also, you know, at the end of the day,
I'm also you know, fucking white girl sitting here right,
I'm not indigenous, And I will say I was really
hoping when I did my DNA thing. I was like,
come on, Native American, well all white people. I do
have Egyptian in me though, Okay, so that's fun and exotic,
but I was very excited.

Speaker 1 (01:14:56):
It's fun and exotic.

Speaker 4 (01:14:59):
But anyway, yeah, so that's you know, I'm no, I'm
not ever going to talk about that because you know,
people talk about cultural appropriation whatever, and I do, yes,
that's obviously a thing, but that's also why for me
I enjoyed learning and the people who I learned from,
aside from one She's you know, Celtic whatever, it was,

(01:15:19):
people who have learned from many different traditions, and that's
a lot of I mean, you know, I'm went down
the rabbit hole kind of girly like if I'm diving
into something, I'm bucking diving into something. And so that's
why it came alongside the mediumship training, because I'm like, well,
if I'm doing this, I want to fucking do this,
and I want to learn everything I can, and I
want to learn from these cultures who've been doing this
since you know, the beginning of fucking time basically, and

(01:15:42):
probably have a lot more knowledge than I ever fucking will.
And they've been doing it for generations, generations, generations like
I want to learn from them.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
And not only that they now I've been doing that,
but they do it in a different way than we
see here in the West. Here in the West, a
lot of spiritual or new age crowd Let's be honest,
it is done through selling interesting things and getting an
identity about something it has nothing to do with a
family lineage. You're like these people that are like these
cultures where all they have is nature, earth and their beliefs.

(01:16:11):
They are doing it for a profound reason that is
very different than your typical Western person.

Speaker 4 (01:16:16):
And I think the identity to call to that it.
You know, we had this conversation with Alexis because he
does healing work and whatever, and he obviously talks about the.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
He's straight, Paolo, I think is like his deal.

Speaker 4 (01:16:32):
Uh, he has a couple different ones, but yes, I
believe that's his primary. But he was talking about you know,
in these cultures, you are never going to refer to
yourself as like a curandero or you know, insert whatever
the specific culture's name would be, like shaman or shamanic
healer or whatever. Like that's you would never fucking refer

(01:16:52):
to yourself as that. Like that is a title that
other people give you, and they you know you you
have to like you have to earn it, you know.
But it's also like, you know, like I can walk
around and be like, yeah, I'm a flutist, right and
I have that identity. I guess like I worked my
ass off for it, right. Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
But that you think different.

Speaker 4 (01:17:13):
Than like, Oh, I'm a healer and you can come
to me and let me do a shamanic healien session
on you and blah blah blah. Sure, yes I can't.
I've done sessions, but I'm not I'm never going to
go like advertise that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
You know what I'm saying, It was the point of
the learning that for you? Was it just the learning
aspect or was there something about it that helped you
find that connection that we call mediumship.

Speaker 4 (01:17:39):
I mean, I think for me, and especially in the beginning,
it's just it's the learning aspect. Like when I'm diving
into something, I want to learn everything I fucking can
learn about something, you know, and it's all interrelated. Like, uh,
when you talk about me, whether it's mediumship or witchcraft
or shamanic practices or whatever, you know, everybody's going to
talk about like their own form of divination, or their

(01:17:59):
own form of spirit communication, or their own form of
energy work, of healing work. You know, all of these
things again ubiquitous, no matter what practice it is, they
all kind of have these things. And for me, yes,
of course, I had mediumship mentors and I'm reading all
of those things and whatever, but the shamanic practices specifically,

(01:18:23):
like I said, I like and appreciate that it's coming
from this essentially a very long lineage of experience. I guess, knowledge, information,
and I just find it. One of the things that
I'm always very interested in.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
Is which I do love, because you're not taking the
route of the sort of sorry to be a dick
with kind of the silver raven wolf idea like the
mall which idea. You're going to these real things, very
serious beliefs and practices to understand and not make it
about you, right and get some sort of title that
you can then egotistically say by yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:18:58):
Right, it's the and you know, learning from experience, you know.
And yeah, these broves that I've been doing this for,
you know, all around the world, all of these different
cultures back however many years and however many generations. Of
course I want to learn from that. Who wouldn't want
to learn from that, you know? And I'm just always.

Speaker 1 (01:19:17):
Well, that was one of your greatest You saw this firsthand,
to need these people and how powerful that life is.
You went to see some monks in France and that
that's like their life, right, Like they're dedicated to that.

Speaker 4 (01:19:29):
That was one of the coolest experiences of my life.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:31):
Why, well for me, you know, you're witnessing these actual
monks who are living on this isolated island in the
south of France. That, first of all, is just fucking beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
I always care about spirit like the rest of the
world means.

Speaker 4 (01:19:45):
Nothing but getting to witness. I mean, obviously my degrees
are in music, you know, and getting to witness a service.
And they're singing fucking Gregorian chant in a god damn
chapel in the fucking p private island in the south
of France. Like I don't know, like if that doesn't
just make it be like okay, yeah, reincarnating on this

(01:20:08):
fucking hellscape again, like that made it worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
You know what I'm saying. It's well, there's a realism
that you don't see in your typical person that goes
to let's state church.

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
Yes, it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
These people aren't. They're not concerned about what house they have,
what clothes they have, what designer bag they have, what
the other person's doing. They don't keep up with the jones.
Is they literally that's their life? Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:20:27):
And well, again it goes back to kind of what
I was saying with the shamanic practices, that's something that
goes back. I mean, I could look it up, but
you know, the earliest form of music notation was literally
from monks the hand right, and that's how they were
notating music that was from monks for a Gregorian chant.
It's like one of the earliest forms that we have

(01:20:47):
and that we you know, so it's going back all
all these generations and it's just the history of that,
and there's just something what's beautiful is it just feels
magical that magic is getting this like ancient Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
I guess that's the interesting thing is that magic is
still here and it's still being practiced, but you have
to get away very rare material world to find it,
don't Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:21:07):
And just like the shamanic practices, one of the people
that I studied from, they make it a point they
still do this regularly. But they, and you've talked about
this before, they were going out into the fucking jungle
with these indigenous cultures and you know, staying out there
for weeks at a time. I want to do it,
learning and practicing under these you know, indigenous medicine men

(01:21:29):
and healers and partaking in the ceremony.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Maybe direct into why I want to do that. I
think there's so many ways you can. But the people
I've known or have read about that do that. The
one thing that it was more about was not only
that experience or taking the psychedelics with these people to
have these visions or whatever, but it was getting away

(01:21:52):
from the materialist world for quite some time. And they
say that after like I think it's like two weeks
or something, when you're out in the wilderness, the mountains, whatever,
with these groups with no phone, none of the technology,
that your body, that it feels different, that it's more connected,
that it's more it feels more complete.

Speaker 4 (01:22:16):
Well, I believe that, and I mean you can even
go look up the a research if you you know,
you hear the woke girlies whatever talk about earthing right
going in the standing outside.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
Or at least to call them barefooters.

Speaker 4 (01:22:29):
Yeah, yes, in your bare feet in the ground. But
if you look it up, it actually it literally changes
the pH levels in your body. Like there it has
physical changes in the human body showing that. So it
does it literally changes.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
Well, that's interesting the human body because of the fact
that here in the West and we're the only place
that has this. We people that do that give themselves
the title, which means they're giving themselves an identity, which
means they're feeding their ego. So it's funny. It almost
makes people like me, who was once and who were
one one an atheist. I think that's where it comes from,
is seeing the bullshit of that and seeing how it's

(01:23:04):
all about let me show you how I'm a barefoot
and blah blah blah, and then they're really like condescending to
other people and correct. I think you get rid of identity.
I think our trouble in the West is we're looking
for identity, whether it's a fucking letter or it's a name.
You get rid of that and realize that you don't matter,
because when you die, your identity is fucking gone. What's
there is the way you made people feel, the energy

(01:23:25):
you put out into the environment to the reality, the
vibrations you put out, the words that the electricity, you
know what I mean, Like that's it's And that's really
hard for me to grasp because it does make me
think of like what is really important?

Speaker 4 (01:23:37):
Yes, and these are the things that make me existential
because then I'm over here like none of this matters.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
Well, then let's flip the script. Last night we had
Ryan over here, right, and he has a completely different
view of what we just talked about, which was, no,
I don't think that inherently a lot of these things
are bad. But he did go over some really bad
experiences and boy, wait to talk about those, and boy,
I've got a new place that I can't wait to
dive into. We got to make that happen immediately, by

(01:24:05):
the way.

Speaker 4 (01:24:05):
Oh yeah, and I don't think I fully answered that question,
by the way, when you ask me that what the
shadow beings? Uh bullfangirlly, Yes, I do think that a
lot of them probably just are negative. Why But I
do think I hit on the four light thing being
maybe created but yeah, the time slip like interdimensional or
maybe I did answer that and I just don't remember.
I don't fucking know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
Why do you think? How do I put the question?
Why do you think that they're inherently bad? And if so,
why does that mean that the shadow dark beings are
bad looking or the other things that are that we're
experiencing are somehow not bad? Is that our Western way
of being? Like, oh, look, it's dark. It's bad like
we've always done, like think about that philosophically. Why are

(01:24:50):
the shadow people bad? But the other phenomenon is not?

Speaker 4 (01:24:53):
Well, I mean, if you look at you want to
talk about culturally, right, typically even if you look at
you know, the bright light that's typically associated with the
angelic like divine beings, and you know the the you know,
uh like shadowy right, the super black you know that's
typically yeah, iky, what is just associated with like evil

(01:25:17):
and the fairies?

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
Now?

Speaker 4 (01:25:18):
Could it just simply be you know, sunlight and nighttime
and going back to survival instincts fight or flight? Right? Like,
is this just simply human evolution at play here? Fucking
probably to be honest, but.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
Maybe because the darker something is you can't see in that,
you know, like maybe there.

Speaker 4 (01:25:37):
Is Well it's just scary. It's our lizard brains fight
or flight, right, that's literally our fucking like the job,
you know, like stay safe, right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
Yeah, But regardless, I will say that in these instances
for those that are listening that have seen shadow beings, yeah,
I don't know that I've ever talked to someone that
can say, oh, yeah, I was real positive, Like I
weren't a party hat and like, yeah, you.

Speaker 4 (01:25:59):
Know, it's it's just weird. And I think to I
think you asked this question about you know, why do
I think that they're all just bad? I think it's
going to one of the points that Heidi made was
look at your intrinsic reactions and your gut reactions, those
gut responses when you see them, right and YaST majority

(01:26:21):
of the time it did not feel fucking good. Like
it did not it. I will say I don't know
that I've uh, maybe a couple times because I've had
a lot of fucking experiences with this these things. Maybe
a couple of times it was like fucking scary, but
majority of the time, you know, it's not like I
see it and I'm like, oh, I'm shaking to my boots,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
But I mean, look, I hate spiders, but if you
were going to make me deal with them every day,
every hour, eventually they won't.

Speaker 4 (01:26:51):
Yeah, you become desensitized. I mean yeah probably. But I
mean also to be fair like my personality that I'm
just generally not that way, you know what I'm saying,
big dick energy, Uh sure, I actually I do have
a coffee mug that sets up yeah, big dick energy. Yeah,

(01:27:11):
I love using it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
I need to get a coffee mug made. It's like
big shadow energy, big.

Speaker 4 (01:27:15):
Shadow energy, big big shadow people energy.

Speaker 5 (01:27:17):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
It is interesting though, because these things you know, so
that I have to ask you though, that's the big
question is what if this other phenomenon that we're engaging with.
And I'm not making a statement, I'm asking a question,
but what if this other phenomenon that we're engaging with
presents itself it's not as a shadow being? But what
makes us understand and know that it absolutely is not

(01:27:38):
the same because it goes back to that predator here
in the in the world the Ted Bundy people didn't
know because it presented itself in such way right that
was safe.

Speaker 4 (01:27:49):
And I don't think that there is an answer to
that because we've literally watched these things shape shift. And
I do believe that a lot of this phenomena it's
going to present in a manner that I don't I
don't know if like saying that we will best be
able to receive it or whatever manner that they want
to present in. You know, can of shadow being shape

(01:28:12):
shift into being a full fucking apparition. I don't fucking know,
maybe fucking maybe have I literally watched them shape shift
before my eyes? Like, yes, we both have. You know,
we've watched them moving. Now, granted it was all to
other like shadow things, But I don't know who's to say,
like the little sparkles that we see around the house,
aren't the saying that I don't fucking no, no, who

(01:28:35):
fucking knows.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
Well the only yeah, yeah, but it is interesting that
you have this other camp. So when we talked to
Ryan last night, I'm willing to bet sure he would
say some are good, some are bad, and I'm probably
in line with that. However, duh. If we as people
that do this, this is I think that the philosophical

(01:28:57):
question I would ask, if we understand that the majority
of these things that we're dealing with are bad in
the spiritual way that we cannot contain, we cannot understand,
we can probably not actually, uh, combat is the issue
with admitting how bad it is the fact that we
at that point need to understand that. Only an idiot

(01:29:20):
then would say, well, I'm gonna go after it, because
we still want to keep going after you know what,
I'm trying to get it like I hope I worded
that right, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:29:26):
I don't know, but uh yeah, I don't know. But
like I said in the beginning, are we all just
dumbossed fucking brugs going around doing the shit? And we're real,
just real fucking dumb Probably, aren't you think?

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
So?

Speaker 4 (01:29:38):
Fucking probably? Really, the fucking science bros And the academic
bros Are like, no, I'm not going near this, well.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
Not just not even that, but everyone away from the
Western culture is that No, Yes, And here we are like, aha,
I'm gonna put on a black T shirt and kick
down doors.

Speaker 4 (01:29:53):
Yes, you know, so are we stupid? Fucking Probably that's
why we're not you know, fucking doc or it's teaching
a goddamn universities or in labs doing research.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
We are bruvs with the paranormal podcast, Yeah, who go
into haunted locations and we wander and ask ourselves what
could it be that's attached to us? Why is the whistling?
Why is this happening? And literally for thousands of yours
cultures have been telling us what it is. And now
I'm not saying this isn't definitely, I'm literally asking questions.
It has been a weird shift for me because not
in a way of identity or knowing or understanding, but

(01:30:27):
in a way of asking myself questions of you know,
are we interacting with some things that whole boy could
be really bad?

Speaker 3 (01:30:38):
Well?

Speaker 4 (01:30:38):
Sure, all this shit does is open up more questions
than answer.

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
Here's the other question. If you don't believe in it,
then what Well?

Speaker 4 (01:30:48):
I think that goes to a point you made earlier
of you know, these religious texts either kind of like
let it be or whatever you said, or maybe it
was in the RGO episode, I don't fucking remember. But
when you're not putting energy or acknowledgment to it, does
it just dissipate and go away? You know? Like I
think that there's something to be said for that, and
we've literally seen it in action so many times by

(01:31:09):
the people who don't have any experiences or whatever because
they're not putting any stock into it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
Well, then the other question for me is these invisible forces,
I'll call them that, which is a weird thing to say,
but are they still affecting the lives and the reality
of non believers of atheists, Like when they say that
there's this war of good and evil going on that
we can't see that's invisible, which at this point I
do firmly believe there is.

Speaker 4 (01:31:33):
I do think so too.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
Is it affecting the lives of non believers, of the
atheists who thinks that that's all just stupid and that
thousands of years of cultures and people and philosophy are
wrong and they're right because they grew up in fucking
the village of New.

Speaker 4 (01:31:47):
York, Right, Yes, well, I think so. And I mean
I think if you are on the spectrum of you know,
and when we say good and evil, I'm not necessarily saying,
you know, angels and demons are adding any sort of
religious context or whatever, right exactly. But you know, if
there are things that are inherently negative, Yes, it's every action,

(01:32:08):
there's an opposite and equal reaction, right, like the fucking
laws of goddamn science or whatever. So there's going to
be the other end, which is good, right. Or you know,
if you believe in good, there's going to be the
opposite end, which is bad. Right. So if you believe
this to be true, operating under that belief, yes, of
course it's affecting the people who don't fucking believe in

(01:32:30):
this you're still living in this material fucking world.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
So you're thinking that they're looking at things just in
a different language and symbology and making it make sense
to them, even though it's still the same thing that's
affecting their lives.

Speaker 4 (01:32:42):
Uh, well, I think it would fall more under the
category of ignorance.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
Okay, So this begs the question just as a personal
opinion here, do you think the idea of atheism in
general or not believing in any of this or only
believing in materialist viewpoints thoughts?

Speaker 4 (01:33:05):
Do you think it's I mean, I don't. I think
I think it's a bit silly because I'm like, even
atheism even saying I don't believe in anything, that's still
a beliefs belief that's still a belief, you know. And
I mean I guess again. You know, identity. They've given
it a title, they've given it something that they're willing
to identify with.

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
The always angry. They're more literally more angry than everyone's stupid.
I know what I'm Here's what's funny everyone exactly is.
It's just so funny though, because when you look at
take the spiritual aspect out of it. I'm talking to
somebody you believe was Eric. Actually he was like, I
don't know. I think I'm still an atheist. I'm like, well,
ask yourself a question, like have you ever heard the

(01:33:48):
Fibonacci sequence, the golden ratio? Yah, this is all found
in nature. It's very clear when we look at science
and we look at sort of what we know from
quantum physics and mechanics, like, there's very clearly a design.
It's funny atheists and material as scientists they say miracles
are bullshit except one. They want you to believe in

(01:34:09):
one miracle.

Speaker 4 (01:34:10):
Yes, how all of this was curiated out of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
They're okay, that's the miracle.

Speaker 4 (01:34:15):
It can't happen. None of it's true, none of it exists.
I guess I guess this one's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:34:20):
That's kind of but.

Speaker 4 (01:34:22):
It's like even that stuff, okay, and then you can
go down the rabbit hole. Okay, Well, there's people who've
cured themselves of fucking cancer. Explain that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
Hold on, No, we done here on paraculear. No, not doctors,
and we do not advocate. I don't know any weird
cures or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:34:36):
You're right, well, I mean, it's just they don't they
don't have explanations for that. And like, I can say
this if I worked in the fucking medical industry.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
What is the years wildest thing you've seen in that
regard and why do you think it happened?

Speaker 4 (01:34:48):
Yes, people curing themselves of cancers, like literally, people getting
diagnoses of like stage four terminal whatever, because.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
The skeptic would say to you, Okay, the cancer just
went into remission. They didn't cure themselves. What are your
thoughts now? I I have heard studies of people that
Morgan Knutsen came on the podcast early on when the
podcast was around, and she told me about a study
of people that had cancer who were tasked to draw
their illness. The ones that drove dow as smaller apparently

(01:35:15):
got better. The ones that drew bigger. Now that's an
interesting study. I don't know much enough about.

Speaker 4 (01:35:18):
Well. I think that makes perfect sense to me because
there've also been studies done like the you know, if
you're having shit going on in brain, write it down
and burn it because you're making it tangible and it does.
It does something so our fucking brains control our entire body.
If you're sitting here saying like, oh my god, I
have that I'm gonna die blah blah blah blah blah. Right, Well,
it's like the hypochondric who's always yes, what's gonna fucking happen?

(01:35:39):
You know? But and I will say the thing across
the board. From all these people that I interacted with,
and the remission, I don't know, I don't still know them,
I didn't keep up with them. So is that a possibility? Sure,
of course I cannot definitively answer that. However, every single
person that I talked to that I heard a story
like that from every single one of them. The common

(01:36:00):
themes where they were like, well I just told myself,
you know, actually like no, and it's gonna go away,
and this is it's gonna I'm gonna be fine and laughter.
They said that they made it a point that literally
everything they were watching, listening to interactions to anybody in
their life that was not bringing joy, love, laughter, positivity

(01:36:22):
immediately cut out and they would watch like comedy specials.
They would go to comedy clubs, watching funny movies, just
constant like laughter, right to keep themselves in that vibrational stage. Okay,
So that begs it joy ah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
Begs a wild question, and I do have to say this.
I'm just gonna say this right now because I was
just thinking it, so it's gonna come out of my
mouth hole. But one of the things I love about
you most is I love how philosophical and smart you are.
You think about this in a way different way than
most people that do the things you do do and
I love that about you. And I think you're very smart.

(01:36:56):
That's the word for you know, intel.

Speaker 4 (01:36:57):
If we both think about things weird, yes we do.

Speaker 1 (01:37:00):
So that brings up a good point. You're talking about
watching comedies right to get in this mode. How much
do you think art can impact us spiritually? And if
you do think it can at all, should everything then
be positive and funny and and versus like I don't know,
like death metal. You know, we know there's a different

(01:37:21):
scientifically from listening to that music than classical music.

Speaker 4 (01:37:24):
Well, sure, but I think that's all again, it's going
to be individual, right, and the meaning that that individual
is attaching to it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
No, No, I think I could be wrong here, So
anyone that's listening check this, but I think they've done studies.
And like heavy metal music, which I love, by the way,
does something that makes you more anxious, more angry, negative.
It's not the same as classical.

Speaker 4 (01:37:45):
And are these are you can you get into psychological
principles of these, right, like the the meter of something,
because classical music can do it too, but the like
the tempo that something's going at, if it's super fast
and super rapid, like people can do it. You can
actually do it with the way that you're speaking in
your voice and I'm going and I'm not sopping, and
there's no there's no sentences, and you know, it's like

(01:38:06):
that literally is done to induce anxiety. It's like literally
like good experiment. When you're watching movies, listen to the
fucking soundtracks, Well, you know what's happening, and you know
what's coming because of the music, because they all of
these different things, the cadences though, whether it's major, whether
it's minor, the chords that they're using, the frequencies right,
the chords frequencies. Yes, all of these things will be

(01:38:31):
done intentionally to elicit different emotions.

Speaker 1 (01:38:36):
An emotional response. And I think there's something interesting about
that because people don't realize this. When it comes to film, especially,
audio is the hugest part when you're watching a movie.
If the audio is bad, it's fucked. Yeah, it's fucked,
you know, But it has to have that. So that's interesting.
It's a tactile thing. So do you think, though, that
something like that could let some of these negative things

(01:38:59):
come into your life? Could the art? You could say that.
It's a deep conversation because I do wonder this, like
the difference between someone's brain mental state, spiritual state that
only listens to classical music versus something like modern.

Speaker 4 (01:39:16):
Sure, but again there are some classical pieces that are
gonna do that as well, like listen, go listen to
a fucking rock mode and off piano concerto. Okay, he
was the og fucking emo, let me tell you. But anyway,
if you ever listened to that, like, it's yes, yes,
in classically there's classical music that can do that effect,

(01:39:36):
like or.

Speaker 1 (01:39:37):
Is it on a different scale?

Speaker 4 (01:39:39):
Well every more? First of all, everything's subjective, but I
think it's gonna come down more to like what what
you're trying to get at here. Everybody's gonna sign different
individual meanings to things like I don't know, for most people,
they love lilies and the smell of lilies, and you know,
if somebody brings them. Lilies are be like, oh my god,
what beautiful blah blah blah. Lilies to me are my

(01:40:02):
signifier for fucking death. Okay, when I smell lilies, that
means somebody is gonna die. I discovered that when I
was working in the medical industry, and that's how I know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
Oh really, yes, we never talked about this, so we
are going to derail this, Like what did that? What
was that?

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:40:15):
What was that?

Speaker 4 (01:40:16):
Yes, it would happen when I would be taking patients.
And this was long before I ever figured out the
whole medium thing and had my therapy, you know. Yes,
it was. I would take patients back and you know,
do their work up whatever, and sometimes I would get
this very overwhelming smell of Lili's right the clare sentence,

(01:40:36):
and every.

Speaker 1 (01:40:39):
Time, yeah, it would die.

Speaker 4 (01:40:42):
Yes, we would get a call. Usually it woually it
would be a few weeks later.

Speaker 1 (01:40:48):
Really a few weeks, but you knew that something was
in then that was takeing. I didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:40:52):
I didn't know at the time, and still I until
I started, because you know, we kind of did a
little bit of everything, and so sometimes I would answer
the phones, you know, and yeah, the amount of calls
we would get of like, hey, just calling to notify
you so and so passed away whatever. Right, And then
obviously you know I have access, I pull up their
charts and then I'm looking at the nose. I'm like,
oh shit, I took this person back, like, I did
their work up. I did. Oh fuck, Like, I'm pretty

(01:41:13):
sure this was the person that I was smelling, you know.
And so then I start seeing these patterns, and it
happened on enough occasions that I was like, this is
not just a coincidence.

Speaker 1 (01:41:26):
Not just a coincidence.

Speaker 4 (01:41:28):
So that's how that came about. And that's how I
ended up noticing that pattern that was from when I
was working in the medical industry.

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
Yeah, did you work in the medical industry after you
had done some training in the shamanic healing side of things?

Speaker 4 (01:41:43):
No, this was all prior. This was all prior.

Speaker 1 (01:41:46):
And do you think how much do you think? You know?
Because what you said reminded me of this old movie
called Patch Adams.

Speaker 4 (01:41:55):
Yes, I have seen that before, Robin Williams.

Speaker 1 (01:41:58):
Yeah, and I could use out of me. I'm so
proud of you. You would use the humor. Yeah, right,
And you think that there's something there.

Speaker 4 (01:42:04):
Yes, Well, I mean if we're looking at patterns every
fucking person that I talk to, at least when I
was a medical you know, granted, like I wasn't doing
this for like ten years or whatever, you know, but
every fucking person that had a story like that that
I talked to, those were the too common denominators.

Speaker 1 (01:42:22):
So then what we call positive or toxic positivity in
the West, Like, are we taking that to an extreme?
Like should that be the focus the goal? Like the laughter,
the positivity, the love, the love and light?

Speaker 4 (01:42:34):
Yes, and I mean of course everything literally everything. There's
a way to take it to a fucking extreme, Okay,
like again both and girly right, well, when you use
it in like bypassing right essentially, like sure, this is
not say like we're still fucking human. We're still gonna
have emotions. So it's not saying like, don't fucking shame
yourself if you have a bad day, you know, like

(01:42:56):
still allow yourself to feel the normal range of human emotions.
But this is all so where I think the stoic
philosophy comes into.

Speaker 1 (01:43:03):
Plays, aren't you?

Speaker 4 (01:43:04):
I do? I really like it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:05):
A book you should read is by Darren Brown. He's
one of the greatest sort of mentalists in mind readers.
But he's a stoic and he's written books on stoicism,
and one is called Happy and it's like why something
to the effect of like why everything is actually not bad?
You might really enjoy it?

Speaker 4 (01:43:23):
Do you not have it?

Speaker 1 (01:43:24):
No, I'm not a big stoic philosophy guy. I know
a bit about it, but it's not my philosophy. But
you would like it's.

Speaker 4 (01:43:30):
True though, you know, like objectively it is true. All
we have control over at the end of the day
is like myself, my own thoughts, my own feelings, my
own reactions. Yes, and this is why. And I'll out
of us like you've often gotten mad at me sometimes
where I'll be like, okay, you know, like I'm sorry
that you feel that way, you know, and I'm like,
for me, I'm not. It's I'm not doing it and

(01:43:53):
as like a way to be a conversation ender or
you know, it's just like that's.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
The problem I have with some way that people do
it still is it can get away from feeling, it
can get away from understanding in a sense where you know,
like you just said, like, oh, I'm sorry I feel
that way versus actually having a care of the other
person and how you fix it, versus like, well, that's
too bad, like that, because then it becomes a bit
egotistical almost.

Speaker 4 (01:44:18):
And that's why it gets to the point that I
was saying, don't shame yourself for having feelings like feeling.

Speaker 1 (01:44:25):
Which is the poortism. Sort of get rid of that,
right it is. It's an interesting philosophy. You would like
that book, though. Where were we going with that stoicism?

Speaker 4 (01:44:34):
Fucking talking about the medical well.

Speaker 1 (01:44:38):
In your medical practice? Then going back to this, how
many times this is a weird question, but how many
times did you work with people or see them pass on?
There's a reason.

Speaker 4 (01:44:50):
First question, I was in an o R where a
patient died once. They did not technically die while they
were still like well, I don't know, maybe they did,
but the ambulance was called and they were taken out,

(01:45:12):
but once.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
Okay, And I asked that because here we are and
we're talking about shadow beings. You were working in the
medical field than a place where people were sick, where
they were suffering, when they were passing on. How many
times were shadow beings involved in your experiences there? If ever, none, none.

Speaker 4 (01:45:31):
None, zero. But again, I do believe if I had
been working, let's say in a hospital, okay, where I
think that would be very different. Were we working it's
a medical office that had an ambulatory surgical center attached
to it. However, it's and y'all have heard me talk
about this before ophthalmology, So it's not you know, we're not, yes,

(01:45:55):
So it's you know, it's very like it's more rare
than we're gonna have people that are in these you know,
Like I wasn't working in hospice or anything like that.
If it had been the hospital, I think it would
have been a different story. Hospitals for me, the places
to places that give me the most fucking anxiety, that
feel the fucking worst to me. Antique stores. Really, I've

(01:46:18):
witnessed this, you've witnessed that.

Speaker 1 (01:46:20):
Gospitals.

Speaker 4 (01:46:22):
I do love going to them. However, is that like.

Speaker 1 (01:46:24):
You're like sort of the same way that's like your
the antique shops are like your dominatrix. You're like, just
give it to me more. I hate it, but fuck
it's great. Like what is that?

Speaker 4 (01:46:33):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:46:33):
Because that's all we love doing is antiqu shops, and.

Speaker 4 (01:46:36):
I love it. But here's the thing with antique shops.
And I've talked about this before, I think on uh
in the Kate shopperd episode on Our Geo, where just
because something feels very overwhelming to me and is shooting
my anxiety through the roof doesn't necessarily equate with this
is bad, you know, or this is hard.

Speaker 1 (01:46:55):
It's just oversensory.

Speaker 4 (01:46:57):
Yes, the energies can be very overwhelming hospitals.

Speaker 1 (01:47:00):
Kind of like if you're scratching hurricanes belly too much.
He's like over sensory, over stimulation, over simulation. Y. Yes, hospitals,
you say, hospitals awful?

Speaker 4 (01:47:12):
Awful?

Speaker 1 (01:47:12):
Can you explain that?

Speaker 4 (01:47:13):
Like, can you tell me, dude, the amount of think
just think about a fucking hospital. How many fucking people
are dying in a hospital every day? How many people
are going in there and they're watching their loved ones
fucking die.

Speaker 1 (01:47:22):
How many people and they're suffering? Yes, but let me
also so one of the interesting stories is when my grandpa,
my mom's dad, passed away. He was a simple dude
and all he liked to do is play music down
at the local community place, and he was very happy
all the time. Whatever. Well, on his deathbed as he
was going, he looks away from the family, goes look

(01:47:44):
at all those instruments and then so that seems like
a positive experience to me.

Speaker 4 (01:47:50):
Well, that is that is very common when you talk
to nurses and you can go look this up online.
It's very common with people who are about to die.
They can tell because they will start seeing a past
loved one.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
For things that bring them joys with really what it
comes down to.

Speaker 4 (01:48:06):
And you'll often hear a lot of people saying like, yeah,
you'll see them. You know, they'll be talking to you know,
someone and nobody's there.

Speaker 1 (01:48:13):
Well, let me ask this question, like do we have
that data from atheists that are dying?

Speaker 4 (01:48:20):
Hmmm, I don't know. I mean, that would certainly be
an interesting study if somebody had done that, because if.

Speaker 1 (01:48:27):
I'm being honest, if people that have belief and faith
are like having experiences and they die and atheists or not,
I'm gonna go with belief and faith every time. And
that may be ego based because like that's scary to
think that there's like nothing that kind of comes, you know,
which I think is actually a lazy responsible. So you're
saying that hospitals fill negative even though those experiences are
sometimes positive, is what I'm I guess kind of getting

(01:48:48):
ospital okay, And is it just because of all the
emotion that's available, yes, to tap into.

Speaker 4 (01:48:54):
Because and anybody who is sensitive to energies like you
go in that place, are gonna feel fucking everything. And sure,
yes there's happiness people.

Speaker 1 (01:49:04):
Yeah, Okay, you're.

Speaker 4 (01:49:05):
Feeling fucking every well, you're feeling the residual ship too.
It's all fucking there. You're feeling everything. At least for me,
it's overwhelming as fuck. I fucking hate it. I hate
hospitals like there is nothing that scares me more than
did you.

Speaker 1 (01:49:21):
Feel any of this stuff? When your mom had that
big scare?

Speaker 4 (01:49:24):
Yeah, really when she was in the ICU.

Speaker 1 (01:49:27):
Tell that story because she she was walking up we
saw the hill we were in Florida, Yeah, and she.

Speaker 4 (01:49:31):
Just well I think I feel like I told it
in a past episode, but the too long didn't read. Yeah,
she was walking up the hill and she just dropped,
and you know, paramedics home. She was dead basically for
an hour, but they kept doing.

Speaker 1 (01:49:45):
That's wild actually, so I'm sorry, Yes, my mom is
for a fucking hour.

Speaker 4 (01:49:49):
She is a living miracle.

Speaker 1 (01:49:50):
Yeah, that's a very positive way to talk about your
I wish. Yeah, well she is yeah an.

Speaker 4 (01:49:56):
Hour yeah, yeah, and she it was like things after
a while, like if she four minutes, y'all were worried
because when she it was like we joke about five
minute memory span, it was a literal five minute memory span. Yes,
but yes, when she was in the ICU, Uh, it
just felt awful the entire time. And you know, of course, yes,

(01:50:17):
I was, you know, worried and scared and feeling all
of these awful things because my mom's fucking laying in
the ICU. We don't know if she's gonna live. We
have the fucking organ donor people coming and trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:50:27):
Talk to us, like trying to harvest her stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:50:30):
Yes, and I was basically I was the one the people. Yeah,
you know, and that's a lot of fucking pressure.

Speaker 1 (01:50:37):
However, you made the right choice, todn't you. Yeah she's here, yes,
because you could have said, okay, just unplugg her, take
the organs correct.

Speaker 4 (01:50:46):
I was like, fuck off, Like, dude, it hasn't even
been twenty four hours, Like, get the fuck out of here,
Like the fucking audacity of you coming in here and
even asking this right.

Speaker 1 (01:50:54):
Now, get the fuck outs.

Speaker 4 (01:50:56):
And yes, I understand from the other perspective they only
have a certain time to be able to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:51:00):
Now I think you're right. There is no other second, gotcha.

Speaker 4 (01:51:02):
So anyway, yes, it the entire it just felt awful.
And even from the moment I step into a fucking hospital,
even getting on the property, like you just start feeling it.
But when you walk in, like, my anxiety is through
the fucking roof. That's what Like, I have the fucking
MRI next week. I'm not looking forward to it. I
don't give a shit about having fucking MRI. It's in

(01:51:23):
a fucking hospital.

Speaker 1 (01:51:24):
So you could never be like like a nurse practitioner
because you're round it.

Speaker 4 (01:51:28):
Yeah, I hate it. Yeah, I would have to do
like the amount of practices. And that's one of the
people that I'm working with for a mediumship mentor ship
right now. She is a nurse, and so that is
a lot of like what we're working on getting in
place for her is these different energetic practices for basically
being able to not take on all of this ship.
And you know, when you think about a nurse specifically,

(01:51:49):
you're going in and like you are putting your energy
into these patients. You're putting the ivs in, and you're
taking care of them, and you're giving them.

Speaker 1 (01:51:57):
Their medicine them that job, which is a thankless job
in many ways. Yes, okay. I think giving people that
are suffering a positive energy, I think is one of
the greatest things you can do. Okay, and I think
I've got a new found respect for it. Nurses, let
me ask you a question when we talk about shadow
people and negative energies, which is this whole kind of thing.

(01:52:18):
Two questions. One, you're saying you don't see them run
rampant at hospitals, Well, yes, really, you see these things
run rampant shadow guys, yes, okay. Two, do you see
them when we go down to Sixth Street, when we
go down to New Orleans and see the poverty and
we see that? Really?

Speaker 4 (01:52:38):
Yes? Yea?

Speaker 1 (01:52:39):
And do you see them? I guess do you see
them more in these more negative areas shadow beings specifically,
not feelings, but seeing shadow beings.

Speaker 4 (01:52:53):
Pay more attention to it?

Speaker 5 (01:52:55):
Now?

Speaker 4 (01:52:56):
But I mean, yeah, probably, I would say so.

Speaker 1 (01:52:59):
Yeah, So that would lead us to believe that.

Speaker 4 (01:53:02):
And I'm talking about shadow people.

Speaker 1 (01:53:04):
Yes, specifically specific specifically forget everything else because I see.

Speaker 4 (01:53:07):
Little shadow like elemental things.

Speaker 1 (01:53:09):
But that's well, we've seen that the little things that
I that me and Eric both saw flying from tree
to tree did not feel negative at all. To be
honest with you, Okay, that was different than anything else.

Speaker 4 (01:53:20):
And I think some of that stuff can be like elemental.

Speaker 1 (01:53:23):
Sure, so the shadow being so that because that is
the point of the conversation is that we started with,
is are they good or bad or indifferent? Nicole's perspective,
go good, bad and different, sum it up and make
it black and white, because there is a yes or
no answer to this. Do you think they're bad? Do
you think they're indifferent?

Speaker 4 (01:53:40):
I don't think that there is a yes or no
answer for this. I am a bold and girly I
think that probably the majority, I would say, are on
the more negative spectrum. And even if that may include
let's say a human who is passed on and they
are simply just kind of for whatever reason in this

(01:54:01):
plane of existence, still I would also view that as
not good, you know, and I'm sure that feels not
good to them as well. Can some of the things
be created, like say the shadow thing on all fours
at Hill House. Yes. Can some of them be elemental? Yes,
we've seen them. What does that mean to actually elemental?
Like from like from the earth, like natural like that

(01:54:24):
you know, we've been here since before you the things like.

Speaker 1 (01:54:28):
The rocks, the dirt, the grass, the ground, the trees.

Speaker 4 (01:54:31):
Uh yes, okay, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
Just something that was here before us.

Speaker 4 (01:54:37):
Yes, like the this, the like the spirits, I guess
of the like natural things like I guess that would
be kind of more like Native American philosophy, Like they
talk about these things a lot, but it's stuff that
you know, like the energy of these things, like the
amalgamation of these things and the spirit of it, you know.

(01:54:57):
But anyway, Uh yeah, are are some of the shadow
things like timeslip interdimensional type deal probably, but the ones
that are negative in your mind, shadow people, that's what
we're talking. Yeah, yeah, And I mean you.

Speaker 1 (01:55:14):
Know, hands right, the things that we talked about.

Speaker 4 (01:55:17):
To the point of like this entire conversation, and you know,
the various things that we've discussed. No, I haven't had
any good experiences with them, Like they're never coming up.
I didn't see a fucking shadow figure walk up and
drop that roller ribbon on the table for me and
you know, give me, give me some finger guns and
be like I got you broth, you know, give.

Speaker 1 (01:55:36):
Me some finger if you imagine we had a shadow
being waivet us but giving us fingers. So that's an
interesting point though, like you've not any of the good
experiences that we've had with the paranormal will call it,
that have never happened around shadow beings. Huh No, Okay,

(01:55:56):
So all that to say, Nicole and I don't know
where we're staying on this, but we did want to
have this conversation about it because it's come up and
we've talked to people that have differing opinions that we typically,
let's be honest, typically we would not be the girlies
that were in Heidie's camp, correct, like for a long time,
like we would have been like no. But there's something
when about experiencing this in a way that not a

(01:56:18):
lot of people do and not just looking at like
the TV shows, and you start to understand, will wait,
there's more.

Speaker 4 (01:56:26):
Well, that's why. And you know something I mentioned earlier
with the length of time that Heidi has been doing this,
in the amount of stories she's heard and the amount
of people that she's talked.

Speaker 1 (01:56:37):
To and experience a severeronia.

Speaker 4 (01:56:39):
It's way fucking more than all likely ever have. Because
this is her area of expertise, it's her specialty. It's
what she's doing day in and day out. So you know,
if we're not going like that's you say it all
the time. It's one of the basic tenets of science,
you know, the repeatability.

Speaker 2 (01:56:54):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:56:54):
If she's getting all of this fucking data and she's
seen this overwhelming pattern of every single one the.

Speaker 1 (01:57:01):
People that experience these are not going through positive experiences.

Speaker 4 (01:57:04):
Negative, it's like, well, I'm inclined to believe that research
like that's data. Data doesn't lie.

Speaker 1 (01:57:12):
This is why we I think today didn't we put
out a call on next door even looking for experiences.
And I do want to say anyone that's a listener,
if you have experiences with shadow beings specifically, it doesn't
have to be people, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:57:26):
A little shadow shits.

Speaker 1 (01:57:28):
Yes, it could be shadow shits, it could be what
they call spider ones, whatever it is, shadow things in general,
if you've had experience with them, I want to know
that experience, okay, because that is something I want to
put in our little research file of paranormal phenomena and
what it's doing. So if you had that experience, please
reach out to us, shoot us an email, DM to us,

(01:57:51):
slide in the emails or the dms, whatever it is,
send us a text. Okay, you can send us a
text on Spotify, you know, or talk about it in
a positive review where you talk about how amazing my
voice is and how my hairline is really good. Uh yeah,
So let us know that because we do want to
document that because while we go to these locations and
we have our own experiences, If I'm being honest, I

(01:58:13):
don't think our own experiences are the way to research
because they are subjective to our right, It's.

Speaker 4 (01:58:19):
It's only our lived experience, correct.

Speaker 1 (01:58:21):
I think real research is we want to hear more
about yours and the and see the similarities and see
that fat find the patterns. Baby. Other than that, this
has been a I gotta tell Nicole, this has been
a great episode because again I know I said it,
but one of my favorite things about you is we
can sit down with a serious topic that is probably

(01:58:42):
one of the most serious that there is, and I
can ask you very difficult, very philosophical questions and you
have answers. You don't. You don't just like look like
a deer in headlights. You've got an opinion on something,
legs And.

Speaker 4 (01:58:55):
When I don't, I'll tell y'all I don't fucking know, yeah,
which I mean blanket statement on all of this. I
don't fucking know theory without without knowing.

Speaker 1 (01:59:05):
You can have an opinion without knowing, right, So I
love that about it. I think it's great. This was
an interesting conversation, was about the shadow people, and we
talked about the seance because there was that component to it.
Weird as hell the seance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well it's
just like when we did with the mirror and we
put the suction cup mic on it. It was like
the sound of bees. Ye, it was almost the same
sound we got from that salance.

Speaker 4 (01:59:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:59:26):
And we got's daughter seeing UFOs last time. It was Rachel.

Speaker 4 (01:59:29):
Yeah, which, by the way, just quick shout out for
the seance for any of our paar Academy people that
are out of town, if you obviously were not able
to attend in person, the video of it, because we
did have my camera or my computer live streaming the
whole thing for anybody who wanted to participate but you know,

(01:59:50):
virtually that is up in Patreon for you for Para Academy,
and it's actually pretty wild. It is, I really I
haven't gone back and listened to it yet, so I
do hope that it was able to pick up, you know,
some of the radio shit that was going on because
it was insane. But yeah, that that is up there
so you can see, you know, we walk it through
the whole fucking ritual and everything with us.

Speaker 1 (02:00:12):
Last question for me in the episode, did you see
shadow beings around Annabel? No, of course not.

Speaker 4 (02:00:17):
I felt nothing.

Speaker 1 (02:00:18):
Nothing. Do you think that it was the rumor that
the real Annabel was not there? I've heard people say
that the rumor is that they did not bring the
real Annabel. Do you think that they would do that
or do you think that they actually give a fuck?
Do you think they actually think that doll was haunted? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:00:35):
I mean, what would the motivation be for not bringing
the real Annabel?

Speaker 1 (02:00:38):
Like, well, it's kind of like using a stand in
if you're a celebrity and you're walking you know what
I mean?

Speaker 4 (02:00:46):
Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know
what the point of like doing that would you be?

Speaker 1 (02:00:52):
But you didn't feel anything as the big one. No,
I didn't no shadow beings run.

Speaker 4 (02:00:55):
Annabel, I didn't see anything. I didn't feel anything. I'm
going to be real. Did I have a heat stroke
that day? Also? Yes?

Speaker 1 (02:01:03):
Could that be ann No, it could be one hundred
and three degree weather. And we we actually put ourselves
in a box that was like an oven because we're idiots.

Speaker 4 (02:01:12):
Well, listen, I got the fucking portable AC unit because
I figured if we had a tent with walls on
it that it would like cool it, you know, because
it would keep the cool air in.

Speaker 1 (02:01:21):
We are so thankful. I want to say this for
you in the episode, for all of our brus that
are able to show us how stupid we are in
certain moments, because we would have killed ourselves. Eric said,
you got to take this these walls out of the tent.
It's it's making you an oven. You're cooking in here,
and we didn't. It felt better. Thanks Eric, Thanks Marcel
and Rage for helping. Thanks everybody, Thanks for listening. If
you have comments, concerns, or stories, please let us know. Also,

(02:01:44):
go listen to the Real Go Sub podcast. That is
our second podcast, and we are diving into more shadow
being stuff there.

Speaker 4 (02:01:51):
Yeah, we just did the episode recorded earlier. Yeah, listeners
stories were a girl head.

Speaker 1 (02:02:00):
That's not good.

Speaker 4 (02:02:01):
Yeah that's not good. Yeah, that's not good.

Speaker 1 (02:02:04):
Let us know what you think, lesten, know to your thoughts,
Listen to your stories, and you know what, we'll read
them on argio. Maybe on a listener story, maybe we
go on a shadow person kick. And if your stories
are radical or scary.

Speaker 4 (02:02:12):
Listen, I'm always on a shadow person kick. Yeah, I've
been on a shadow person kick since I was a
fucking kid.

Speaker 1 (02:02:17):
Actually, I'm sorry that that just brought this up as
the last question for us, top. I'm so sorry you you,
as someone who has seen these as a kid growing
up around your bed all the time, if you think
that they're inherently typically negative, what does that mean for
why that's happening to you?

Speaker 4 (02:02:33):
Well, according to the episode of What Heidi Said, she
said that especially and this is I've also been binging
her podcast as well.

Speaker 1 (02:02:46):
You love Personince that conversation though, well, I just.

Speaker 4 (02:02:48):
You know knowledge, I want to know more things.

Speaker 1 (02:02:52):
Well, we both said that when we got off the
conversation with her. Regardless of if we agreed with her,
she does not feel like she's making this shit up.

Speaker 4 (02:02:59):
She's extremely sincere. Yeah, and she was like, you know, well,
I want to get to know you more. Like what's
so special about you that these things are surrounding you?
You know? Like and she's said it on the podcast
now that as I've been listening to it, she's like,
in my experience and the stories and the people I've
talked to, it's people who are just innately able to

(02:03:21):
have this connection, you know, tap into these things, mediumistic abilities, whatever,
and you know, see these things, know these things that
other people just don't, and they are trying to They
want to isolate you, make you weaker, make you depressed.

Speaker 1 (02:03:34):
Well that's interesting maybe, And you see this all the time,
whether it's serious mediums or serious artists that I think
feel these things and see these things. It's almost like
they want to take those people and put them in
situations that make them go to agitation, to anxiety, to depression,
to negativity. Because if you are a beacon, a lighthouse,
they can suck that light out of you versus someone

(02:03:57):
that doesn't have that innately. Maybe that's the message of
this podcast is don't let the shadow figure take your light.

Speaker 4 (02:04:09):
Well, don't don't let anybody take your light. Don't dim
your light for anybody, certainly not shadow figures. Yeah, fuck them,
shadow figures.

Speaker 1 (02:04:16):
Fuck them, stupid Ross, Fuck that horse. Speaking of you,
ready for pizza?

Speaker 4 (02:04:22):
Yeah, that sounds good.

Speaker 1 (02:04:22):
That's make some pizza.

Speaker 4 (02:04:23):
Do we actually have fucking pizza today? How many I
was saying this earlier, I'm like, how many fucking episodes?
And we ended at this point where I'm like, I
want pizza.

Speaker 1 (02:04:31):
We had a whole episode called es Pizza.

Speaker 4 (02:04:33):
Yeah. I think that was the last time we fucking
had pizza?

Speaker 1 (02:04:36):
Is it really?

Speaker 4 (02:04:38):
I think? So?

Speaker 1 (02:04:40):
It's too long, It's too long. Let's make there.

Speaker 4 (02:04:43):
You keep me from pizza for this long.

Speaker 1 (02:04:45):
Because we made an interesting monster, you monster. Let's make
pizza and have wine, and let's put more shit on
our marry and alter and just hope that we're not fucked,
and put.

Speaker 4 (02:04:55):
On Gossip GIRLO. Okay, gossip Girl darling.

Speaker 1 (02:05:00):
You want to pre eat the oven?

Speaker 4 (02:05:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:05:03):
Great, We're having pizza. See you guys, Thanks for listening.
If you made it this far, whatever, letst know your thoughts.
Bye bye,

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