September 10, 2025 • 33 mins
Ever leave a CEU course thinking…
“Okay, but how do I actually do this with a patient tomorrow?”
In this episode, Theresa Richard sits down with Dr. Kristen West to talk all things active learning—including how we’ve evolved from death-by-PowerPoint to interactive clinical simulations (yep, even flaming barrels made an appearance ).
Whether you're a new grad, mid-career, or switching settings, this convo will hit home.
Learn more about the MedSLP Collective: https://medslpcollective.com
Find more episodes here: https://swallowyourpridepodcast.com
The post 375 – Beyond the Lecture: The Future of Med SLP Learning appeared first on Swallow Your Pride Podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
Welcome to the Swallow Your Pride podcast. I'm
your host, Theresa Richard. I'm a board certified
specialist in swallowing and swallowing disorders, a mobile
thieves business owner, and founder of the MedSLP
Collective.
This podcast is all about delivering the latest
evidence based practice to medical SLPs everywhere.
Whether you're a new clinician seeking tangible tools
for treatment or a seasoned vet stuck in
(00:33):
a rut, my goal is to help ditch
the old school ways of the past that
no longer serve you or your patients, to
reinvigorate your passion for our field, to broaden
your knowledge about our scope of practice, and
to inspire you to practice at the top
of your license. So if you're listening, I
encourage you to swallow your pride, be open
and willing to learn because let's face it,
your patients deserve that kind of care. With
(00:54):
that, let's dive right in.
Just a quick disclaimer that all statements and
opinions expressed in this episode do not reflect
on the organizations
associated with the speakers and are their own
opinions solely. So welcome, friends. Welcome back to
the Swallow Your Pride podcast. Today's episode, we
have Doctor. Kristin West.
She's an assistant professor and chair in the
Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders at Penn
(01:16):
West University.
Clinically, Kristin has experience in a variety of
pediatric settings, including early intervention, pediatric
acute care, outpatient and school based services. Prior
to joining Penn West, she helped establish a
public school feeding program and served as a
consultant for the same program. Kristin is also
a member and volunteer for SIG thirteen, PSHA,
Feeding Matters and ASHA.
(01:37):
She serves as the ASHA COASLP
member for Pennsylvania.
Alright. Hello, my friend.
Hi, Theresa. How are you today? Good. Thanks
for joining me.
No problem. Happy to be here. Alright. So
a lot of different topics that I want
to dive into with you today. And let
me just set the stage by saying, Kristen
is someone that has been such a personal
(01:59):
reference for me with issues with my son,
and she's just so incredibly well versed in,
like, public school case law for feeding and
swallowing and what
schools can and can't tell us about feeding
our children. So she's been a huge help
with that. But then also, she's worked behind
the scenes at the Modesto P Collective since
we started forever ago.
(02:21):
But she's just taken on more of a
more leadership role recently,
as we've really started to roll out more
active learning, and she's a big part of
our university system and our university outreach. And
so a lot to cover today. So I
just threw all that at you. Where would
you like to start?
Wherever you wanna start. That's a big topic.
So whatever wherever you wanna get started, we
can start there and roll through all of
(02:41):
it. Yeah. Let's let's start with the with
the active learning piece because this is something
that
I've noticed has just become
so much needed
today. Right? We're coming up on the last
part of 2025, hard to believe, coming into
fall twenty twenty five, and we are in
this day of AI and just information
overload.
(03:02):
And there's really not anything. There's no piece
of information that's lacking that people can't get
from AI. And whether people like to admit
that or not, it's really the truth.
And there's, you know, many different ways that
people learn things. Right? There's you can passively
read something, you can passively watch something, or
you can be really actively engaged.
(03:24):
And this is something that I've just become
really obsessed with in my PhD studies, and
one of my concentrations is health care education
and just learning about all the different learning
theories that there are,
not just for kids, but for adults. And
it's drastically different for adults and not just
for adults, but specifically in medical education. And
how do we as adults that, you know,
(03:45):
we're all working a million hours a week,
we're managing families,
navigating just life,
but then you also need to keep up
with the times. You need to keep up
with the new technology. You need to keep
up with new assessments and treatments that are
happening for our patients. And how in the
world do we stay on top of all
that?
And is AI the answer? Right? Is just
typing into AI,
(04:06):
you know, hello. Please help me with my
patient. This is what they present with today.
Is that the best use of your time,
and is that gonna be the most reliable
and evidence based? And there's a lot of
ways to argue that. But
where I wanna start is really this active
learning piece, and it's something that we just
made a huge pivot in with the MetaSelf
P Collective this year. And I just like
to share a lot of the reasons why
(04:28):
and why we're doing it and why I
believe this is the way of the future.
So
Yeah. I think it's, like, a really valid
point. So, like, pulling from my my background
in higher ed, you know, we're always you
know, when I'm sitting in a classroom and
I'm teaching my students, and I'm trying to
think, you know, I'm conveying this knowledge to
them. But I think everybody in higher ed
(04:50):
always has these conversations about how do I
make sure that what I tell them is
what they do. Right? That's like the age
old, like, problem in any any field. We
have research. We, you know, do a lot
of research, but then how do we translate
that, or how do we kinda change people's,
practice patterns, or how do we teach them
(05:10):
how to do that thing, if they've never
done it
before?
And, you know, it's the age old, like,
theory practice gap kind of topic.
But the real thing here is just thinking
about
how do we and and, you know, even
in their twenties, students are adults. We're all
adults. Right? How do adults learn and really
thinking about how do we
(05:32):
give them information that they can apply to
a clinical
scenario, and how do we get them to
take that knowledge and turn it into skills,
which is, you know, just how to better
be in higher ed kinda thinks about that
stuff.
And so some of the things that, you
know, we we really have been kind of
finding when we think about
(05:52):
pedagogy and learning and how do people learn,
across the board is really we can't
just assume that when we tell somebody how
to do something
that they're going to be able to to
tomorrow just go do the thing. Right? Like,
I can tell you, you know,
some fluency shaping, you know, approaches. I could
(06:15):
probably ramble off a a very good definition
of that, or I could probably even tell
you some things about voice. But if you
ask me to do that, I could not
do it. Like, I just absolutely could not,
because I've never had the opportunity
recently, in the recent past, to practice that
skill.
(06:35):
And I think, you know, we've known for
a really long time kind of in the
adult learning space that just
sitting and listening
is not really
the best effective way to then get somebody
to turn around and do that with their
patient. Right?
And so I think, you know, what we
were talking about in the collective and what
(06:56):
we've just even been talking about in higher
ed a lot too is we always kind
of have to have that link between
fitting and understanding
and hearing the information and understanding the theory
behind it and and the why behind it.
But that's not enough because you still have
to know how to do it. Right? Like,
you have to know how
(07:17):
how to actually
do the thing.
And so we know that by giving things
like guided
practice. Right? Like, being able to so Kristen
doesn't know how to do
fluency shaping. But
if somebody shows me how to do it,
and then I can practice it, and they
can give me feedback
or give me a little bit of, like,
(07:38):
a demonstration or a little bit of, oh,
well, Kristen, that was really great, but that
really wasn't. Let's go ahead and shape that,
change that, or next time I would do,
you know, x y z.
Then I know, oh, so that's what that
thing that you were talking about
is. Right? And I've done it a little
bit more.
And I think for me,
(07:58):
I've always learned the best that way. Like,
I like, I am a book smart person.
Like, I do like to sit in here,
but still sometimes leaving those kind of classes
or CEOs or whatever, there's still, I think,
for any of us is that, how do
I, like, do that tomorrow? Right? Like, how
do I apply to that?
Yeah. It's it's completely not lost on me
the irony of owning a few different continuing
(08:18):
education businesses. Right? And, you know, I I
just keep telling everyone, like, we are done
with death by PowerPoint. We are done with
it. Like, I can't stand doing it when
I present. Like, I don't wanna read your
PowerPoint times a million again. That being said,
I very much understand the power of visuals,
and sometimes we do have a few slides
with a few words on them and things
like that. But, you know, what what is
(08:40):
important here is we just kept getting overwhelming,
you know, feedback from our members, but then
also, like I said in in my PhD
studies and stuff that I was learning too,
is how do we get SLPs to just
learn how to do the thing? Because the
reality is there's so many new treatments coming
out, and there's so many new, you know,
assessment tools and and things like that. And
(09:02):
what's interesting is we're in this time where
SLPs don't want to go to a live
course and really get hands on. They don't
want
to see see another SLP do it. They
want everything
online, on demand, on a computer, and that's
fine. You know, it's it's really what we've
grown accustomed to since COVID.
But how do we adapt our teaching style
(09:25):
to meet the learning needs of
SLPs so that they can learn this stuff
in the fastest,
best, most efficient way.
And so it's really been I don't wanna
say a challenge to us. It's been really
fun. I I just, like, love this stuff.
But, you know, even ways that we have
changed it in the collective is with our
Facebook group. Like, we now have mentors that
instead of, you know, typing out a whole
(09:45):
long response to someone, they'll actually just film
a quick video of, oh, hey. You know,
try putting your lips like this, or this
is what it actually this is how I
model it when I teach it to the
patient. And so just having that instant feedback
is so, so, so helpful.
And it's not just reading it. And because
I think for me, sometimes I read something
and I'm like, I think that's how I
interpreted it, but I don't know if that
(10:08):
if I go do that on a patient
right now. Is that the best and safest
thing to do for my patient if I'm
not even sure that I interpreted it or
read it the right way? So there's a
lot that goes into this, and I'm and
I'm really proud of a lot of the
ways that we've integrated more of these
these I keep calling them show and tells
for, like, for lack of a better term.
(10:28):
But we have technology available to us, so
I love that we're able to use it
more.
Yeah. No. And I think, you know, I
think it it's it's kinda that full circle
moment because I think we all remember, like,
being, you know, in, like, preschool or early
elementary, and it was, like, show and tell.
Let me bring you my toy. Let me
show you what I like about it or
tell and then let me let you play
with it because then you learn how to
(10:48):
play with it with a kid. Right? So
it's just like the grown up version
of that we know is really, like, that
active learning, like, the doing the doing and
connecting it with the thinking and all the
expertise that we have as SLPs that are
practicing.
Right? And then being able to kinda pull
it all together.
But
it's just going back to that, like, roots.
Like, oh, let me learn about that thing.
(11:09):
Oh, now let me put my hands on
that thing. Like, we did that way back
when.
It's just now how do we do that
in that in that career,
and how do we do that even in
in any sort of classroom
setting? And we know that
that's been backed by research for you know,
because I was gonna put that that research
hat on. We know that that's been backed
by research for a really long
(11:31):
period of time,
but it's just that the landscape for how,
you know, continuing education has been provided for
a really long time has not you you
know, we we do that at a university.
You work under an SLP. You get mentored.
Right? But then you get out in the
field, and you might be the only one
at your setting or the only person doing
peds in an adult hospital. It's like, you
(11:52):
know, the ones I bring. But, like, you
could also be the only SNF in a
building or the only home health person. So,
like,
what do you do when you don't have
that SLP that has a strength in something
that you're trying to grow in and and
turn to? You can go and sit and
get the information, but how do we make
sure that you get that opportunity to practice
that, you know, a setup that does kind
(12:13):
of earlier stages
of your career? Because we all know, like,
we don't necessarily
stay in the place where we had our
CFY or stay just in those lanes that
we were trained in even though we're trained
very broadly in grad school. Like, we honestly
stay there. We might change later in our
career, and so there's still that place and
that need for
that active hands on
(12:35):
learning through cases
or, you know, let me let me try
this approach,
or let me try this in a low
stakes environment,
you know, where I'm not gonna do any
harm, and I can learn and get feedback
and and try again.
So I think, you know, that's just really,
really where we're all thinking. It's gotta be
(12:55):
accessible. It's gotta also be really targeted. You
know, I think people are being very mindful,
just in some of my conversations about, I
wanna grow in this area. Right? Like, I'm
a consumer of knowledge all the time, and
I will, like, go and this course is
interesting and that's interesting, but, and I even
myself now find myself going, I really, like,
(13:16):
wanna hone in on this skill or this
topic or this
area,
and so then really kind of focusing our
our growth,
and as if that's what is applicable to
me today. Right? And so Yeah. I love
seeing that, but it is
challenging to do that and make it accessible
when you can't always sit next to the
person that you're working with for sure. Yep.
(13:38):
Let's talk a little bit about something that
we've really invested a ton this year in
the Medice LP Collective in is these clinical
case simulations.
And
they've been
really, really cool at like, I love this
stuff. I love to dig into this stuff
and nerd out into it and see, you
know, how can we bring something that is
really prevalent in other, you know, medical fields
(14:00):
and and other
realms of adult learning. How can we bring
that into medical SLP? And I'm super proud
of our team with what we've come up
with, but you've been the biggest proponent in
helping us
roll these out and and why we want
to do them and all of the things
that go into them. And you've set your
standards, like, super, super high on how we
wanna produce these, and I love that.
(14:20):
So let's can you share a little bit
yeah. Share what went into all of this
and why we're doing it.
Yeah. So, I mean,
every
a lot of health care does simulations, and
they do hands on simulations and have sim
labs and stuff. Right? And we're just talking
about how people aren't always able to go
to the place to, like, get their their
hands on.
But we are able to, like, leverage tech
(14:40):
and leverage technology and leverage, you know, a
a lot of the back end stuff that
I don't necessarily understand, but that Joy and
her team do understand,
to kinda bring bring that information
live.
And so just really talking about,
you know, how do we give people the
opportunity
to really you know, they've learned the information
(15:00):
or they know it, but they want to
grow in maybe an area of medical SLP
that they haven't had a lot of practice
in. Right? Like apraxia or just, you know,
a specialized dysphagia or aphasia.
How do we bring a case scenario to
them that they can
read and watch and hear what happens and
then answer some questions and then move on
and kinda see and work through that, like,
(15:23):
clinical
reasoning in an evidence based practice way because
that is active learning. Right? So, like, I've
learned something.
I've read about this approach. Maybe you've even
seen it demonstrated, but then, you know, what
am I gonna do when this
client does x or y? Right? And why
did I make that choice?
And what is is kind of that stronger
evidence? And so that's really where that kinda
(15:44):
came from is that, you know, if you
go to any CEU, you hear people want
like, they wanna hear cases, and they wanna
see how somebody, that expert, navigated that case
and understand why.
But the next step of that is now
you navigate a case, and you try to,
you know, do it, and how would you
do it if you were the one that
was the with clinician. And, again, that's really
(16:07):
embraced in in higher ed and a lot
of our, you know, pre professional preparation programs,
but it's not
something that we always see,
from the professional end unless somebody's gone back
to school and they're trying to add something
from a specialty. And so adding that piece
of not just
seeing
and watching a demo and having discussion in
a practice, but then also having a case
(16:28):
where you can
apply some of these skills or kinda hone
that critical thinking and and that clinical decision
making is really where they came from.
And so they you know, kinda leveraging the
expertise of experts in the field and and
our mentors and those that have really bringing
these cases forward that then are, you know,
well, then this is the decision and this
(16:49):
is why, and it's linked to, like, an
article. And it'll kinda tell you, like, if
you, you know, if you have a question
about this, go read this or go dig
deeper,
to kind of
help people really feel more confident in taking
that knowledge and turning it into skills. And
so that's really you know,
the the case based, like, simulation active learning,
working on a case,
(17:11):
is really that application piece, but it's errorless.
Right? Like so if you pick the wrong
answer,
it's just gonna tell you no on the
computer screen, but you haven't harmed anybody that's
sitting in front of you. And then you
can reflect and say, like, oh, okay. Like,
I understand why. Right? Again, it's just a
lot of what we kinda did
in grad school or hopefully had access to.
(17:33):
But when you're doing when you're trying to
continue to hone and grow your skills,
you know, it's just another way to kind
of enhance that that learning. And, again, really
not just sit and get, but get up
and do kind of piece of it, but
in an accessible way because, you know, not
everybody can fly to wherever these people are,
to help get that one on one training.
(17:54):
So it's just really bringing that accessibility to
that evidence base and that active
learning. And you're right. It is something we
use in in a lot of higher ed
everywhere.
But bringing it and using it as an
actual
learning
application
kind of for professionals
is not always as common. Yeah. Yeah. And
(18:15):
I love the the components that I love
that we've integrated
is, you know, anybody can create a multiple
choice test question. Right? I mean, ChatGPT can
literally do that for you.
But what this does is, you know, gives
you the options, but if you click the
wrong one, it tells you why. And then
it also you know, like like you said,
it's this errorless learning. Right? Like, you don't
(18:37):
wanna push the wrong button in the ICU
on a vent patient. Right? Like, that has
life or death repercussions, but like this has,
oh, okay, this is why you don't do
that.
But also what I love too is we
also, there's these critical thinking components too. Like
they'll also be, okay, well, this patient also
has a comorbidity
of
diabetes, or now this patient also is,
(19:00):
you know, on event. You know, now there's
all these different components that we layer into
it, which is is actually reality with our
patients. You know, it's I don't want to
say it's not hard to say, okay, if
this is the situation, this is the answer.
But most times, our patients are never, this
is the situation. It's this is the situation
compounded with this, with these environmental factors, with
these family factors, with
(19:22):
factors,
with
what the doctor wants to do, with this
doctor's out sick today. Oh, now the patient
has
pneumonia.
You
know, there's so many things that go into
it, and that just muddies the water so
much. And I think that's what causes so
much overwhelm
for clinicians is, you know, textbook,
they understand if a then b. Right? But
(19:43):
when you're actually thrown into the thrown to
the wolves and thrown in the ICU or
thrown in a hospital without
any mentorship or, you know, immediate,
yeah, mentorship, then it's it's really hard to
make these really high level complex decisions. So
I love that we've included
a lot of, you know, somebody I have
a close friend that says, like, just just
know that you're gonna have a bunch of,
(20:04):
like, flaming barrels coming at you. And, like,
I feel like that's really what we've done
with these. It's like, you think you know
what to do with this patient, and then
we're just gonna you know, the monkey is
gonna throw a flaming barrel at you, and
you have to just learn how to navigate
the situation. So I'm I'm very proud of
what we've done, and I give you all
the credit, Kristen, for for the way that
you've,
(20:25):
you know, managed all of this. And and,
yeah, we have an incredible tech team that
has rolled all of this out, but Kristen's
standards have been very, very high, which I'm
grateful for. So
Well, we've had great people writing. You know?
I think that's the other thing too. We
have clinicians who are expert clinicians writing their
case. I do not wanna be remiss in
saying that yet. Thank you. And so they're
so good at, like, submitting things that are,
(20:46):
you know, rooted in their their real life,
like, experience of what they're navigating and then,
you know, sending that through to us. And
so, you know, it's easy to turn out
a good product when you get good input.
So wanna wanna shout out to them as
well. Yes. Yes.
Let's also talk about we do have a
lot of universities that are using this this
information as well. And can you speak to
(21:07):
the lens of how universities can use this
for clinical hours?
Yeah. So, you know, simulation is really commonly
used in,
in higher ed and used as a way
that, you know, universities
are able to,
you know, provide a a pre brief or
provide, like, a little, you know, summary of
what's going on in the situation with the
(21:28):
case, and then, the universities can
then you know, with this case, whether that
be a platform or there's multiple ways that
universities can do that. But they can then
go through, like, a simulation of a case,
some and then work through that simulation. And
then when they have a debrief with the
with the,
student about, okay. Like, what did we do?
Let's do some, like, reflection or, you know,
(21:49):
some feedback on that learning. They can count
that, you know, under ASHA hours. And so
ASHA has,
you know, parameters
around that, but that's something that we do
use because, again, it's best practice for that
errorless learning.
So that's definitely something that is embedded in
the collective, and it's great for our practicing
clinicians. But we do have the university program
where, you know, universities
(22:10):
can give access to the collective to their
students.
And when they do that, they get access
to these simulations
that are case based, authentic, again, linking to,
like, additional readings and resources.
But that also allows those faculty to review
them and say, hey. You know, I'm using
the collective maybe as this part of a
class or part of some of their clinical
resources. And, oh, I really want them to
(22:31):
do
you know, read these,
resources, and sometimes we do link, like, our
resources to the to the simulations, and then
do this simulation,
and then, you know, then we can have
that as part of an assignment,
and they can, you know, choose to to
use that as part of that clinical training
piece because, again, knowledge and skills that that
ASHA requires of them.
(22:53):
And so that's something that
is new in the collective in general, but
when universities are using us, they do have
access to that. Yeah.
Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. And a and a
lot of this obviously stemmed from, you know,
COVID, and we have so many SLPs that
came out during the COVID era that just
did not have
this hands on learning. You know? I mean,
(23:14):
I, you know, I talk about all the
time how
my grad school experience I just did not
have medical externships, so my experience was all
with school and with peds, and, you know,
I would have loved to have been able
to have access to,
you know, like you said, this errorless learning,
these these ways of just going through these
complex cases and just, you know, quizzing myself.
Yeah. I'm super super grateful that we've been
(23:35):
able to develop all of this stuff and
and help SLPs no matter where they are.
I think what always surprises me and doesn't
surprise me is, you know, we have SLPs,
like I said, that came out during the
COVID era that just never had access
to any of this stuff, but we also,
you know, have newer clinicians that just want
more experience or we have more seasoned clinicians
that want to switch to a different setting.
And so it's it's really helpful that it's
(23:57):
just, you know, we wanna just meet SLPs
where they are, and it doesn't matter what
your background is or was or what you
want to do. And I'm really passionate about
helping those SLPs that, you know, maybe you've
been in the schools for twenty years or,
you know, life that is just leading you
to a different direction. And how do you
get that knowledge and how do you just,
know, like we said, just fiddle around on
your phone and actually get some really good
(24:18):
good knowledge and some good skills just by
going through some of these clinical simulations. So
thank you, Chris, and I'm super, super grateful
for all of your help in spearheading all
of that.
No problem. I you know me. I always
like learning, and I always like to learn
and grow. Yeah. Yeah. And this is something
that I always feel like I navigate, you
know, in my full time faculty role a
lot. That is something that just keeps coming
(24:41):
coming up. Like,
you know, well, can I just put this
into chat GPT or what any other AI
program? Right? That's just the one that most
people around me use, and say, hey. Like,
is that gonna give me the answer? Is
that gonna tell me what to do with
that case?
And what I will say is it's really
good with facts, but it also if it
(25:01):
doesn't know, it makes things up.
So, you know, if there is a place
for it, but I think, you know, it's
never going to
replace somebody with a lot of expertise and
knowledge. And so, like, you can't remove the
human piece from from our field. Right?
It definitely
is a tool that I think, you know,
(25:22):
people as they talk about, you know,
managing schedules, making, you know, making therapy activities,
like, you know, those kind of things, problem
solving. It might be a tool that can
help support, but it's never gonna replace, like,
our
clinical decision making. Right? And it's never gonna
replace
fully
that mentorship or that ability to, like, have
(25:43):
a conversation with somebody about this is the
patient and just like you were saying, like,
here's all these seven other things on top
of, like, the main reason I'm seeing them.
So what am I supposed to do, or
how do I navigate that with them?
It might direct you to some resources, but
we still have to make those decisions. Right?
And so I think, you know,
(26:04):
there is a lot it can
do to help support us, but it's it's
not going
to be the thing that really helps us
level up our skills, if you know where
I'm going with that. Like, we still have
to have that mentorship. We still have that
active learning. So it is finding that
that balance because I you know, I'll say
sometimes, like, out from students or other people,
(26:25):
they'll be like, is AI gonna, like, replace
us? And I'm like, no.
I don't think it's gonna replace us at
all. I think it helps aid our learning,
but it's not gonna replace
replace us either. Right. I was listening to
this, a really interesting interview. I think it
was, like, it was with Bill Gates or
somebody like that. And the same thing, it
was like, is AI gonna replace all of
(26:45):
these jobs? And one of the things that
he said was, you know, AI is never
going to replace health care. But he said
what's going to happen is
the people that do not embrace healthcare are
going to be replaced by the people who
do embrace AI in healthcare.
Because, you know, he said what's better, a
really compassionate human with access to AI or
(27:05):
a really compassionate human that's not utilizing it.
And I think, you know, just in in
running businesses and things, we just how can
we use AI to make our back end
and our systems,
you know, more efficient? And I think as
SLPs, you know, there's so much we can
do with report writing now,
and just managing our schedules and figuring out
how to triage minutes and productivity like that
stuff. Let AI do all that really high
(27:27):
level thinking for you. But there's no way
that AI is ever gonna replace having a
compassionate human that can understand things in the
context that they need to be relayed to
a patient. You know, like we talked about,
you know, you're gonna have flaming barrels that
monkeys are gonna throw at you. You know,
how do you have those conversations with
patients that also have all of these other
comorbidities
(27:47):
going on? And and so the more you
can embrace AI to help with your inefficiencies,
the more you can spend time actually
being a compassionate human to patients.
Yeah. I think it's like that that demands
capacity or, like, cognitive load, like or we
even think about it, like, in the billing
standpoint of, like, skilled. Like, what we do
with the patient is skilled. So if I
(28:08):
can offload the part that doesn't really require
my SLP knowledge Yeah. And free up space
for me to use that, you know, I
think that's great. Or can I use it
in a way that it helps me
enhance I have time to focus on my
learning or my training or my leveling up
of my skills or something else? You know,
I really view it as being
a tool to help
(28:29):
people
offload the things that don't require our specialized
training
Yeah. To make up so we're just using
all of our time, resources, and energy on
what we're highly skilled and trained
do.
So I think that that's,
you know, that's helpful. And, again, like, it
links back to that, like, active learning. Like,
you can't type into chat GPT, show me
(28:51):
how to do this
this skill or this therapy. If you anybody's
ever done AI imaging, you're like, give me
a picture of this, and then it's usually
Yeah. Yeah. Especially for, like, anatomy and things.
Right?
So I just don't think that it's go
it it's there to help us direct us
to knowledge, but it's never gonna
be able to teach us this skill. Right?
(29:11):
Like, that piece, the doing of the doing,
piece. So I think that's, like,
just something that I always kinda keep in
my back of my mind. Like and I
and I say students a lot, like, you
can use AI to help direct you towards
information. You have to verify that it's actually
accurate information.
Yeah. But it's still not gonna tell you
when you're at the bedside with the patient
and they start desetting and coughing. You can't
(29:33):
be like, please hold. Let me put this
all into my AI engine to figure out
what to do. Like, the blaming barrel, as
you said, it's coming right at you, and
you have to know
in that moment. So, like, having that opportunity
to have learned it, to have seen it,
to, you know, have made the mistake before
in an ARRIS learning platform, like, you'll leverage
(29:53):
that in that moment, and I think that
just makes it a little you know, makes
that kind of I've developed that skill that
it's just never gonna be replaced. Yep. Yep.
I think too you know, I think one
thing
that's really when we think about, like, kinda
best practices in adult learning is just
there's this concept of
in order to take in information as an
(30:15):
adult learner, you kind of have to be
ready
to learn it. Right? And to be ready
to learn it, it has to meet that,
like, immediate need of you in your, like,
day to day. And I always think about
this as, like and you can probably relate
relate, Teresa. Like, when I decided to go
back to school, like, I thought about it
for a billion times before I decided to
go back and get my doctorate. And I'd
be like, well, that goal I have for
(30:37):
myself is, like, a future goal, not, like,
an immediate one. So I'm not gonna dive
in. I'm not ready to, like, do that
learning right now in my life.
And then when I was, I, like, dove
in. And I think, like, one thing that
we've been doing a lot in the collective
too is, like,
link linking our like, when we see trends
come up, like, when people are saying, oh,
we're having all of these questions about, like,
(30:59):
billing
or EMR stuff or head and neck cancer.
Like, we're like, this is what we need.
This is what the members need. This is,
like, what they're ready to learn, what they're
asking and seeking,
and making sure we're, like, giving them what
they're asking for in this moment, and really
meeting that immediate learning needs. So then when
people are showing up, they're able to take
it take that information and apply it
(31:21):
right away.
It's not that, like, let me look and
see and scroll and find something that maybe
meets my need. But if it's not there,
we we might have it. We probably do
because there's a lot of stuff. But if
we don't or it needs to be updated,
we're like Yeah. Thank you. Let's take that.
Let's bring that to you. Yeah. Yeah. And
luckily, we have a lot of incredible type
a people that work at the collective, and
they like to work ahead, like, months and
(31:42):
years ahead. And I'm always like, no. Because
and it's only because I wanna make sure
that we have time and space to
meet immediate needs. You know, I
I totally love having things planned out for
months in advance, but if crap hits the
fan and this is a topic that needs
to be addressed this month, I wanna make
sure that we're able to do that for
our members. So
(32:03):
we try to have a a little bit
of both, you know, something things really broad
topics, but then also have space for,
some really, really hyper specific things that just
happen to come up, and we know that
they're always gonna come up in health care.
So
It's I mean, if we didn't learn anything
from this past
year and all the
billing and medic Yeah. And all of that.
(32:24):
We know things could change on a dime
for sure. Right.
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Kristen. I
appreciate your insight and your help and your
brain all the time. And,
if people wanna reach out to you, if
they have any questions about any of this
stuff, where can they reach you?
If you have any any questions about anything
related
to the collective,
(32:45):
you can reach out to me at my
collective email, which, is mine, the university
email is technically. So if you have an
info like, anything that you wanna ask me
about
university stuff, you know, using it for your
universities,
or just anything that you want to know,
I am the university
at Metasilp Collective. So you can reach out
(33:06):
to me there,
in that role.
Perfect. Yep. So she's university@metasilpcollective.com,
and you can reach Kristen. So awesome. Thank
you so much, my friend. Really, super appreciate
you. No problem. Anytime. Happy to be here.
And that's a wrap for this episode. As
always, thank you so much for listening.
If you'd like to download the show notes
from this episode, please visit swallowyourpridepodcast.com.
(33:29):
There, you can also sign up for our
email list so that you'll never miss another
episode.
If you do like what you hear, then
please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes
or share it on social media with your
friends and colleagues because that is what keeps
these episodes coming.
If you'd like to be a guest, share
feedback, or request a topic to be discussed
on the show, please email podcast@TeresaRichard.com.
(33:53):
Thank you so much for listening, and we'll
catch you next week.
Welcome to the Swallow Your Pride podcast. I'm
your host, Theresa Richard. I'm a board certified
specialist in swallowing and swallowing disorders, a mobile
thieves business owner, and founder of the MedSLP
Collective.
This podcast is all about delivering the latest
evidence based practice to medical SLPs everywhere.
Whether you're a new clinician seeking tangible tools
for treatment or a seasoned vet stuck in
(00:33):
a rut, my goal is to help ditch
the old school ways of the past that
no longer serve you or your patients, to
reinvigorate your passion for our field, to broaden
your knowledge about our scope of practice, and
to inspire you to practice at the top
of your license. So if you're listening, I
encourage you to swallow your pride, be open
and willing to learn because let's face it,
your patients deserve that kind of care. With
(00:54):
that, let's dive right in.
Just a quick disclaimer that all statements and
opinions expressed in this episode do not reflect
on the organizations
associated with the speakers and are their own
opinions solely. So welcome, friends. Welcome back to
the Swallow Your Pride podcast. Today's episode, we
have Doctor. Kristin West.
She's an assistant professor and chair in the
Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders at Penn
(01:16):
West University.
Clinically, Kristin has experience in a variety of
pediatric settings, including early intervention, pediatric
acute care, outpatient and school based services. Prior
to joining Penn West, she helped establish a
public school feeding program and served as a
consultant for the same program. Kristin is also
a member and volunteer for SIG thirteen, PSHA,
Feeding Matters and ASHA.
(01:37):
She serves as the ASHA COASLP
member for Pennsylvania.
Alright. Hello, my friend.
Hi, Theresa. How are you today? Good. Thanks
for joining me.
No problem. Happy to be here. Alright. So
a lot of different topics that I want
to dive into with you today. And let
me just set the stage by saying, Kristen
is someone that has been such a personal
(01:59):
reference for me with issues with my son,
and she's just so incredibly well versed in,
like, public school case law for feeding and
swallowing and what
schools can and can't tell us about feeding
our children. So she's been a huge help
with that. But then also, she's worked behind
the scenes at the Modesto P Collective since
we started forever ago.
(02:21):
But she's just taken on more of a
more leadership role recently,
as we've really started to roll out more
active learning, and she's a big part of
our university system and our university outreach. And
so a lot to cover today. So I
just threw all that at you. Where would
you like to start?
Wherever you wanna start. That's a big topic.
So whatever wherever you wanna get started, we
can start there and roll through all of
(02:41):
it. Yeah. Let's let's start with the with
the active learning piece because this is something
that
I've noticed has just become
so much needed
today. Right? We're coming up on the last
part of 2025, hard to believe, coming into
fall twenty twenty five, and we are in
this day of AI and just information
overload.
(03:02):
And there's really not anything. There's no piece
of information that's lacking that people can't get
from AI. And whether people like to admit
that or not, it's really the truth.
And there's, you know, many different ways that
people learn things. Right? There's you can passively
read something, you can passively watch something, or
you can be really actively engaged.
(03:24):
And this is something that I've just become
really obsessed with in my PhD studies, and
one of my concentrations is health care education
and just learning about all the different learning
theories that there are,
not just for kids, but for adults. And
it's drastically different for adults and not just
for adults, but specifically in medical education. And
how do we as adults that, you know,
(03:45):
we're all working a million hours a week,
we're managing families,
navigating just life,
but then you also need to keep up
with the times. You need to keep up
with the new technology. You need to keep
up with new assessments and treatments that are
happening for our patients. And how in the
world do we stay on top of all
that?
And is AI the answer? Right? Is just
typing into AI,
(04:06):
you know, hello. Please help me with my
patient. This is what they present with today.
Is that the best use of your time,
and is that gonna be the most reliable
and evidence based? And there's a lot of
ways to argue that. But
where I wanna start is really this active
learning piece, and it's something that we just
made a huge pivot in with the MetaSelf
P Collective this year. And I just like
to share a lot of the reasons why
(04:28):
and why we're doing it and why I
believe this is the way of the future.
So
Yeah. I think it's, like, a really valid
point. So, like, pulling from my my background
in higher ed, you know, we're always you
know, when I'm sitting in a classroom and
I'm teaching my students, and I'm trying to
think, you know, I'm conveying this knowledge to
them. But I think everybody in higher ed
(04:50):
always has these conversations about how do I
make sure that what I tell them is
what they do. Right? That's like the age
old, like, problem in any any field. We
have research. We, you know, do a lot
of research, but then how do we translate
that, or how do we kinda change people's,
practice patterns, or how do we teach them
(05:10):
how to do that thing, if they've never
done it
before?
And, you know, it's the age old, like,
theory practice gap kind of topic.
But the real thing here is just thinking
about
how do we and and, you know, even
in their twenties, students are adults. We're all
adults. Right? How do adults learn and really
thinking about how do we
(05:32):
give them information that they can apply to
a clinical
scenario, and how do we get them to
take that knowledge and turn it into skills,
which is, you know, just how to better
be in higher ed kinda thinks about that
stuff.
And so some of the things that, you
know, we we really have been kind of
finding when we think about
(05:52):
pedagogy and learning and how do people learn,
across the board is really we can't
just assume that when we tell somebody how
to do something
that they're going to be able to to
tomorrow just go do the thing. Right? Like,
I can tell you, you know,
some fluency shaping, you know, approaches. I could
(06:15):
probably ramble off a a very good definition
of that, or I could probably even tell
you some things about voice. But if you
ask me to do that, I could not
do it. Like, I just absolutely could not,
because I've never had the opportunity
recently, in the recent past, to practice that
skill.
(06:35):
And I think, you know, we've known for
a really long time kind of in the
adult learning space that just
sitting and listening
is not really
the best effective way to then get somebody
to turn around and do that with their
patient. Right?
And so I think, you know, what we
were talking about in the collective and what
(06:56):
we've just even been talking about in higher
ed a lot too is we always kind
of have to have that link between
fitting and understanding
and hearing the information and understanding the theory
behind it and and the why behind it.
But that's not enough because you still have
to know how to do it. Right? Like,
you have to know how
(07:17):
how to actually
do the thing.
And so we know that by giving things
like guided
practice. Right? Like, being able to so Kristen
doesn't know how to do
fluency shaping. But
if somebody shows me how to do it,
and then I can practice it, and they
can give me feedback
or give me a little bit of, like,
(07:38):
a demonstration or a little bit of, oh,
well, Kristen, that was really great, but that
really wasn't. Let's go ahead and shape that,
change that, or next time I would do,
you know, x y z.
Then I know, oh, so that's what that
thing that you were talking about
is. Right? And I've done it a little
bit more.
And I think for me,
(07:58):
I've always learned the best that way. Like,
I like, I am a book smart person.
Like, I do like to sit in here,
but still sometimes leaving those kind of classes
or CEOs or whatever, there's still, I think,
for any of us is that, how do
I, like, do that tomorrow? Right? Like, how
do I apply to that?
Yeah. It's it's completely not lost on me
the irony of owning a few different continuing
(08:18):
education businesses. Right? And, you know, I I
just keep telling everyone, like, we are done
with death by PowerPoint. We are done with
it. Like, I can't stand doing it when
I present. Like, I don't wanna read your
PowerPoint times a million again. That being said,
I very much understand the power of visuals,
and sometimes we do have a few slides
with a few words on them and things
like that. But, you know, what what is
(08:40):
important here is we just kept getting overwhelming,
you know, feedback from our members, but then
also, like I said in in my PhD
studies and stuff that I was learning too,
is how do we get SLPs to just
learn how to do the thing? Because the
reality is there's so many new treatments coming
out, and there's so many new, you know,
assessment tools and and things like that. And
(09:02):
what's interesting is we're in this time where
SLPs don't want to go to a live
course and really get hands on. They don't
want
to see see another SLP do it. They
want everything
online, on demand, on a computer, and that's
fine. You know, it's it's really what we've
grown accustomed to since COVID.
But how do we adapt our teaching style
(09:25):
to meet the learning needs of
SLPs so that they can learn this stuff
in the fastest,
best, most efficient way.
And so it's really been I don't wanna
say a challenge to us. It's been really
fun. I I just, like, love this stuff.
But, you know, even ways that we have
changed it in the collective is with our
Facebook group. Like, we now have mentors that
instead of, you know, typing out a whole
(09:45):
long response to someone, they'll actually just film
a quick video of, oh, hey. You know,
try putting your lips like this, or this
is what it actually this is how I
model it when I teach it to the
patient. And so just having that instant feedback
is so, so, so helpful.
And it's not just reading it. And because
I think for me, sometimes I read something
and I'm like, I think that's how I
interpreted it, but I don't know if that
(10:08):
if I go do that on a patient
right now. Is that the best and safest
thing to do for my patient if I'm
not even sure that I interpreted it or
read it the right way? So there's a
lot that goes into this, and I'm and
I'm really proud of a lot of the
ways that we've integrated more of these
these I keep calling them show and tells
for, like, for lack of a better term.
(10:28):
But we have technology available to us, so
I love that we're able to use it
more.
Yeah. No. And I think, you know, I
think it it's it's kinda that full circle
moment because I think we all remember, like,
being, you know, in, like, preschool or early
elementary, and it was, like, show and tell.
Let me bring you my toy. Let me
show you what I like about it or
tell and then let me let you play
with it because then you learn how to
(10:48):
play with it with a kid. Right? So
it's just like the grown up version
of that we know is really, like, that
active learning, like, the doing the doing and
connecting it with the thinking and all the
expertise that we have as SLPs that are
practicing.
Right? And then being able to kinda pull
it all together.
But
it's just going back to that, like, roots.
Like, oh, let me learn about that thing.
(11:09):
Oh, now let me put my hands on
that thing. Like, we did that way back
when.
It's just now how do we do that
in that in that career,
and how do we do that even in
in any sort of classroom
setting? And we know that
that's been backed by research for you know,
because I was gonna put that that research
hat on. We know that that's been backed
by research for a really long
(11:31):
period of time,
but it's just that the landscape for how,
you know, continuing education has been provided for
a really long time has not you you
know, we we do that at a university.
You work under an SLP. You get mentored.
Right? But then you get out in the
field, and you might be the only one
at your setting or the only person doing
peds in an adult hospital. It's like, you
(11:52):
know, the ones I bring. But, like, you
could also be the only SNF in a
building or the only home health person. So,
like,
what do you do when you don't have
that SLP that has a strength in something
that you're trying to grow in and and
turn to? You can go and sit and
get the information, but how do we make
sure that you get that opportunity to practice
that, you know, a setup that does kind
(12:13):
of earlier stages
of your career? Because we all know, like,
we don't necessarily
stay in the place where we had our
CFY or stay just in those lanes that
we were trained in even though we're trained
very broadly in grad school. Like, we honestly
stay there. We might change later in our
career, and so there's still that place and
that need for
that active hands on
(12:35):
learning through cases
or, you know, let me let me try
this approach,
or let me try this in a low
stakes environment,
you know, where I'm not gonna do any
harm, and I can learn and get feedback
and and try again.
So I think, you know, that's just really,
really where we're all thinking. It's gotta be
(12:55):
accessible. It's gotta also be really targeted. You
know, I think people are being very mindful,
just in some of my conversations about, I
wanna grow in this area. Right? Like, I'm
a consumer of knowledge all the time, and
I will, like, go and this course is
interesting and that's interesting, but, and I even
myself now find myself going, I really, like,
(13:16):
wanna hone in on this skill or this
topic or this
area,
and so then really kind of focusing our
our growth,
and as if that's what is applicable to
me today. Right? And so Yeah. I love
seeing that, but it is
challenging to do that and make it accessible
when you can't always sit next to the
person that you're working with for sure. Yep.
(13:38):
Let's talk a little bit about something that
we've really invested a ton this year in
the Medice LP Collective in is these clinical
case simulations.
And
they've been
really, really cool at like, I love this
stuff. I love to dig into this stuff
and nerd out into it and see, you
know, how can we bring something that is
really prevalent in other, you know, medical fields
(14:00):
and and other
realms of adult learning. How can we bring
that into medical SLP? And I'm super proud
of our team with what we've come up
with, but you've been the biggest proponent in
helping us
roll these out and and why we want
to do them and all of the things
that go into them. And you've set your
standards, like, super, super high on how we
wanna produce these, and I love that.
(14:20):
So let's can you share a little bit
yeah. Share what went into all of this
and why we're doing it.
Yeah. So, I mean,
every
a lot of health care does simulations, and
they do hands on simulations and have sim
labs and stuff. Right? And we're just talking
about how people aren't always able to go
to the place to, like, get their their
hands on.
But we are able to, like, leverage tech
(14:40):
and leverage technology and leverage, you know, a
a lot of the back end stuff that
I don't necessarily understand, but that Joy and
her team do understand,
to kinda bring bring that information
live.
And so just really talking about,
you know, how do we give people the
opportunity
to really you know, they've learned the information
(15:00):
or they know it, but they want to
grow in maybe an area of medical SLP
that they haven't had a lot of practice
in. Right? Like apraxia or just, you know,
a specialized dysphagia or aphasia.
How do we bring a case scenario to
them that they can
read and watch and hear what happens and
then answer some questions and then move on
and kinda see and work through that, like,
(15:23):
clinical
reasoning in an evidence based practice way because
that is active learning. Right? So, like, I've
learned something.
I've read about this approach. Maybe you've even
seen it demonstrated, but then, you know, what
am I gonna do when this
client does x or y? Right? And why
did I make that choice?
And what is is kind of that stronger
evidence? And so that's really where that kinda
(15:44):
came from is that, you know, if you
go to any CEU, you hear people want
like, they wanna hear cases, and they wanna
see how somebody, that expert, navigated that case
and understand why.
But the next step of that is now
you navigate a case, and you try to,
you know, do it, and how would you
do it if you were the one that
was the with clinician. And, again, that's really
(16:07):
embraced in in higher ed and a lot
of our, you know, pre professional preparation programs,
but it's not
something that we always see,
from the professional end unless somebody's gone back
to school and they're trying to add something
from a specialty. And so adding that piece
of not just
seeing
and watching a demo and having discussion in
a practice, but then also having a case
(16:28):
where you can
apply some of these skills or kinda hone
that critical thinking and and that clinical decision
making is really where they came from.
And so they you know, kinda leveraging the
expertise of experts in the field and and
our mentors and those that have really bringing
these cases forward that then are, you know,
well, then this is the decision and this
(16:49):
is why, and it's linked to, like, an
article. And it'll kinda tell you, like, if
you, you know, if you have a question
about this, go read this or go dig
deeper,
to kind of
help people really feel more confident in taking
that knowledge and turning it into skills. And
so that's really you know,
the the case based, like, simulation active learning,
working on a case,
(17:11):
is really that application piece, but it's errorless.
Right? Like so if you pick the wrong
answer,
it's just gonna tell you no on the
computer screen, but you haven't harmed anybody that's
sitting in front of you. And then you
can reflect and say, like, oh, okay. Like,
I understand why. Right? Again, it's just a
lot of what we kinda did
in grad school or hopefully had access to.
(17:33):
But when you're doing when you're trying to
continue to hone and grow your skills,
you know, it's just another way to kind
of enhance that that learning. And, again, really
not just sit and get, but get up
and do kind of piece of it, but
in an accessible way because, you know, not
everybody can fly to wherever these people are,
to help get that one on one training.
(17:54):
So it's just really bringing that accessibility to
that evidence base and that active
learning. And you're right. It is something we
use in in a lot of higher ed
everywhere.
But bringing it and using it as an
actual
learning
application
kind of for professionals
is not always as common. Yeah. Yeah. And
(18:15):
I love the the components that I love
that we've integrated
is, you know, anybody can create a multiple
choice test question. Right? I mean, ChatGPT can
literally do that for you.
But what this does is, you know, gives
you the options, but if you click the
wrong one, it tells you why. And then
it also you know, like like you said,
it's this errorless learning. Right? Like, you don't
(18:37):
wanna push the wrong button in the ICU
on a vent patient. Right? Like, that has
life or death repercussions, but like this has,
oh, okay, this is why you don't do
that.
But also what I love too is we
also, there's these critical thinking components too. Like
they'll also be, okay, well, this patient also
has a comorbidity
of
diabetes, or now this patient also is,
(19:00):
you know, on event. You know, now there's
all these different components that we layer into
it, which is is actually reality with our
patients. You know, it's I don't want to
say it's not hard to say, okay, if
this is the situation, this is the answer.
But most times, our patients are never, this
is the situation. It's this is the situation
compounded with this, with these environmental factors, with
these family factors, with
(19:22):
factors,
with
what the doctor wants to do, with this
doctor's out sick today. Oh, now the patient
has
pneumonia.
You
know, there's so many things that go into
it, and that just muddies the water so
much. And I think that's what causes so
much overwhelm
for clinicians is, you know, textbook,
they understand if a then b. Right? But
(19:43):
when you're actually thrown into the thrown to
the wolves and thrown in the ICU or
thrown in a hospital without
any mentorship or, you know, immediate,
yeah, mentorship, then it's it's really hard to
make these really high level complex decisions. So
I love that we've included
a lot of, you know, somebody I have
a close friend that says, like, just just
know that you're gonna have a bunch of,
(20:04):
like, flaming barrels coming at you. And, like,
I feel like that's really what we've done
with these. It's like, you think you know
what to do with this patient, and then
we're just gonna you know, the monkey is
gonna throw a flaming barrel at you, and
you have to just learn how to navigate
the situation. So I'm I'm very proud of
what we've done, and I give you all
the credit, Kristen, for for the way that
you've,
(20:25):
you know, managed all of this. And and,
yeah, we have an incredible tech team that
has rolled all of this out, but Kristen's
standards have been very, very high, which I'm
grateful for. So
Well, we've had great people writing. You know?
I think that's the other thing too. We
have clinicians who are expert clinicians writing their
case. I do not wanna be remiss in
saying that yet. Thank you. And so they're
so good at, like, submitting things that are,
(20:46):
you know, rooted in their their real life,
like, experience of what they're navigating and then,
you know, sending that through to us. And
so, you know, it's easy to turn out
a good product when you get good input.
So wanna wanna shout out to them as
well. Yes. Yes.
Let's also talk about we do have a
lot of universities that are using this this
information as well. And can you speak to
(21:07):
the lens of how universities can use this
for clinical hours?
Yeah. So, you know, simulation is really commonly
used in,
in higher ed and used as a way
that, you know, universities
are able to,
you know, provide a a pre brief or
provide, like, a little, you know, summary of
what's going on in the situation with the
(21:28):
case, and then, the universities can
then you know, with this case, whether that
be a platform or there's multiple ways that
universities can do that. But they can then
go through, like, a simulation of a case,
some and then work through that simulation. And
then when they have a debrief with the
with the,
student about, okay. Like, what did we do?
Let's do some, like, reflection or, you know,
(21:49):
some feedback on that learning. They can count
that, you know, under ASHA hours. And so
ASHA has,
you know, parameters
around that, but that's something that we do
use because, again, it's best practice for that
errorless learning.
So that's definitely something that is embedded in
the collective, and it's great for our practicing
clinicians. But we do have the university program
where, you know, universities
(22:10):
can give access to the collective to their
students.
And when they do that, they get access
to these simulations
that are case based, authentic, again, linking to,
like, additional readings and resources.
But that also allows those faculty to review
them and say, hey. You know, I'm using
the collective maybe as this part of a
class or part of some of their clinical
resources. And, oh, I really want them to
(22:31):
do
you know, read these,
resources, and sometimes we do link, like, our
resources to the to the simulations, and then
do this simulation,
and then, you know, then we can have
that as part of an assignment,
and they can, you know, choose to to
use that as part of that clinical training
piece because, again, knowledge and skills that that
ASHA requires of them.
(22:53):
And so that's something that
is new in the collective in general, but
when universities are using us, they do have
access to that. Yeah.
Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. And a and a
lot of this obviously stemmed from, you know,
COVID, and we have so many SLPs that
came out during the COVID era that just
did not have
this hands on learning. You know? I mean,
(23:14):
I, you know, I talk about all the
time how
my grad school experience I just did not
have medical externships, so my experience was all
with school and with peds, and, you know,
I would have loved to have been able
to have access to,
you know, like you said, this errorless learning,
these these ways of just going through these
complex cases and just, you know, quizzing myself.
Yeah. I'm super super grateful that we've been
(23:35):
able to develop all of this stuff and
and help SLPs no matter where they are.
I think what always surprises me and doesn't
surprise me is, you know, we have SLPs,
like I said, that came out during the
COVID era that just never had access
to any of this stuff, but we also,
you know, have newer clinicians that just want
more experience or we have more seasoned clinicians
that want to switch to a different setting.
And so it's it's really helpful that it's
(23:57):
just, you know, we wanna just meet SLPs
where they are, and it doesn't matter what
your background is or was or what you
want to do. And I'm really passionate about
helping those SLPs that, you know, maybe you've
been in the schools for twenty years or,
you know, life that is just leading you
to a different direction. And how do you
get that knowledge and how do you just,
know, like we said, just fiddle around on
your phone and actually get some really good
(24:18):
good knowledge and some good skills just by
going through some of these clinical simulations. So
thank you, Chris, and I'm super, super grateful
for all of your help in spearheading all
of that.
No problem. I you know me. I always
like learning, and I always like to learn
and grow. Yeah. Yeah. And this is something
that I always feel like I navigate, you
know, in my full time faculty role a
lot. That is something that just keeps coming
(24:41):
coming up. Like,
you know, well, can I just put this
into chat GPT or what any other AI
program? Right? That's just the one that most
people around me use, and say, hey. Like,
is that gonna give me the answer? Is
that gonna tell me what to do with
that case?
And what I will say is it's really
good with facts, but it also if it
(25:01):
doesn't know, it makes things up.
So, you know, if there is a place
for it, but I think, you know, it's
never going to
replace somebody with a lot of expertise and
knowledge. And so, like, you can't remove the
human piece from from our field. Right?
It definitely
is a tool that I think, you know,
(25:22):
people as they talk about, you know,
managing schedules, making, you know, making therapy activities,
like, you know, those kind of things, problem
solving. It might be a tool that can
help support, but it's never gonna replace, like,
our
clinical decision making. Right? And it's never gonna
replace
fully
that mentorship or that ability to, like, have
(25:43):
a conversation with somebody about this is the
patient and just like you were saying, like,
here's all these seven other things on top
of, like, the main reason I'm seeing them.
So what am I supposed to do, or
how do I navigate that with them?
It might direct you to some resources, but
we still have to make those decisions. Right?
And so I think, you know,
(26:04):
there is a lot it can
do to help support us, but it's it's
not going
to be the thing that really helps us
level up our skills, if you know where
I'm going with that. Like, we still have
to have that mentorship. We still have that
active learning. So it is finding that
that balance because I you know, I'll say
sometimes, like, out from students or other people,
(26:25):
they'll be like, is AI gonna, like, replace
us? And I'm like, no.
I don't think it's gonna replace us at
all. I think it helps aid our learning,
but it's not gonna replace
replace us either. Right. I was listening to
this, a really interesting interview. I think it
was, like, it was with Bill Gates or
somebody like that. And the same thing, it
was like, is AI gonna replace all of
(26:45):
these jobs? And one of the things that
he said was, you know, AI is never
going to replace health care. But he said
what's going to happen is
the people that do not embrace healthcare are
going to be replaced by the people who
do embrace AI in healthcare.
Because, you know, he said what's better, a
really compassionate human with access to AI or
(27:05):
a really compassionate human that's not utilizing it.
And I think, you know, just in in
running businesses and things, we just how can
we use AI to make our back end
and our systems,
you know, more efficient? And I think as
SLPs, you know, there's so much we can
do with report writing now,
and just managing our schedules and figuring out
how to triage minutes and productivity like that
stuff. Let AI do all that really high
(27:27):
level thinking for you. But there's no way
that AI is ever gonna replace having a
compassionate human that can understand things in the
context that they need to be relayed to
a patient. You know, like we talked about,
you know, you're gonna have flaming barrels that
monkeys are gonna throw at you. You know,
how do you have those conversations with
patients that also have all of these other
comorbidities
(27:47):
going on? And and so the more you
can embrace AI to help with your inefficiencies,
the more you can spend time actually
being a compassionate human to patients.
Yeah. I think it's like that that demands
capacity or, like, cognitive load, like or we
even think about it, like, in the billing
standpoint of, like, skilled. Like, what we do
with the patient is skilled. So if I
(28:08):
can offload the part that doesn't really require
my SLP knowledge Yeah. And free up space
for me to use that, you know, I
think that's great. Or can I use it
in a way that it helps me
enhance I have time to focus on my
learning or my training or my leveling up
of my skills or something else? You know,
I really view it as being
a tool to help
(28:29):
people
offload the things that don't require our specialized
training
Yeah. To make up so we're just using
all of our time, resources, and energy on
what we're highly skilled and trained
do.
So I think that that's,
you know, that's helpful. And, again, like, it
links back to that, like, active learning. Like,
you can't type into chat GPT, show me
(28:51):
how to do this
this skill or this therapy. If you anybody's
ever done AI imaging, you're like, give me
a picture of this, and then it's usually
Yeah. Yeah. Especially for, like, anatomy and things.
Right?
So I just don't think that it's go
it it's there to help us direct us
to knowledge, but it's never gonna
be able to teach us this skill. Right?
(29:11):
Like, that piece, the doing of the doing,
piece. So I think that's, like,
just something that I always kinda keep in
my back of my mind. Like and I
and I say students a lot, like, you
can use AI to help direct you towards
information. You have to verify that it's actually
accurate information.
Yeah. But it's still not gonna tell you
when you're at the bedside with the patient
and they start desetting and coughing. You can't
(29:33):
be like, please hold. Let me put this
all into my AI engine to figure out
what to do. Like, the blaming barrel, as
you said, it's coming right at you, and
you have to know
in that moment. So, like, having that opportunity
to have learned it, to have seen it,
to, you know, have made the mistake before
in an ARRIS learning platform, like, you'll leverage
(29:53):
that in that moment, and I think that
just makes it a little you know, makes
that kind of I've developed that skill that
it's just never gonna be replaced. Yep. Yep.
I think too you know, I think one
thing
that's really when we think about, like, kinda
best practices in adult learning is just
there's this concept of
in order to take in information as an
(30:15):
adult learner, you kind of have to be
ready
to learn it. Right? And to be ready
to learn it, it has to meet that,
like, immediate need of you in your, like,
day to day. And I always think about
this as, like and you can probably relate
relate, Teresa. Like, when I decided to go
back to school, like, I thought about it
for a billion times before I decided to
go back and get my doctorate. And I'd
be like, well, that goal I have for
(30:37):
myself is, like, a future goal, not, like,
an immediate one. So I'm not gonna dive
in. I'm not ready to, like, do that
learning right now in my life.
And then when I was, I, like, dove
in. And I think, like, one thing that
we've been doing a lot in the collective
too is, like,
link linking our like, when we see trends
come up, like, when people are saying, oh,
we're having all of these questions about, like,
(30:59):
billing
or EMR stuff or head and neck cancer.
Like, we're like, this is what we need.
This is what the members need. This is,
like, what they're ready to learn, what they're
asking and seeking,
and making sure we're, like, giving them what
they're asking for in this moment, and really
meeting that immediate learning needs. So then when
people are showing up, they're able to take
it take that information and apply it
(31:21):
right away.
It's not that, like, let me look and
see and scroll and find something that maybe
meets my need. But if it's not there,
we we might have it. We probably do
because there's a lot of stuff. But if
we don't or it needs to be updated,
we're like Yeah. Thank you. Let's take that.
Let's bring that to you. Yeah. Yeah. And
luckily, we have a lot of incredible type
a people that work at the collective, and
they like to work ahead, like, months and
(31:42):
years ahead. And I'm always like, no. Because
and it's only because I wanna make sure
that we have time and space to
meet immediate needs. You know, I
I totally love having things planned out for
months in advance, but if crap hits the
fan and this is a topic that needs
to be addressed this month, I wanna make
sure that we're able to do that for
our members. So
(32:03):
we try to have a a little bit
of both, you know, something things really broad
topics, but then also have space for,
some really, really hyper specific things that just
happen to come up, and we know that
they're always gonna come up in health care.
So
It's I mean, if we didn't learn anything
from this past
year and all the
billing and medic Yeah. And all of that.
(32:24):
We know things could change on a dime
for sure. Right.
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Kristen. I
appreciate your insight and your help and your
brain all the time. And,
if people wanna reach out to you, if
they have any questions about any of this
stuff, where can they reach you?
If you have any any questions about anything
related
to the collective,
(32:45):
you can reach out to me at my
collective email, which, is mine, the university
email is technically. So if you have an
info like, anything that you wanna ask me
about
university stuff, you know, using it for your
universities,
or just anything that you want to know,
I am the university
at Metasilp Collective. So you can reach out
(33:06):
to me there,
in that role.
Perfect. Yep. So she's university@metasilpcollective.com,
and you can reach Kristen. So awesome. Thank
you so much, my friend. Really, super appreciate
you. No problem. Anytime. Happy to be here.
And that's a wrap for this episode. As
always, thank you so much for listening.
If you'd like to download the show notes
from this episode, please visit swallowyourpridepodcast.com.
(33:29):
There, you can also sign up for our
email list so that you'll never miss another
episode.
If you do like what you hear, then
please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes
or share it on social media with your
friends and colleagues because that is what keeps
these episodes coming.
If you'd like to be a guest, share
feedback, or request a topic to be discussed
on the show, please email podcast@TeresaRichard.com.
(33:53):
Thank you so much for listening, and we'll
catch you next week.
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