August 13, 2025 • 54 mins
Sinéad Kehoe is the founder of Wāhine Wai, a dippers' group in Wellington. In this episode we discuss eight swim books we've enjoyed, two swim songs, and two swim films:
- Lonely Planet's 'The Joy of Wild Swimming', 2023.
- Anna Deacon and Vicky Allan, 'Taking the Plunge: The Healing Power of Wild Swimming for Mind, Body and Soul', 2019, Black & White Publishing.
- Nina Mingya Powles. 'Small Bodies of Water.' 2021, Canongate Books.
- Ingrid Horrocks. 'Where We Swim.' 2021, Te Herenga Waka University Press.
- Annette Lees. 'Swim: a Year of Swimming Outdoors in New Zealand.' 2018, Potton & Burton.
- Julie Otsuka. 'The Swimmers'. 2022, Penguin.
- Tracey Baumann and Emma Levy. 'The Swim Mastery Way.' 2024, InHouse Publishing.
- Lynne Cox. 'Swimming to Antarctica: Tales of a Long-Distance Swimmer.' 2004, Harcourt.
- Louden Wainwright III, 'The Swimming Song'. 1973.
- R.E.M. 'Nightswimming.' 1992.
- 'The Swimmer' (film), 1968.
- 'Kim Swims' (documentary), 2017.
What are your favourite swim books, films, and songs? Let us know by leaving a comment or email swimchatswithshona@gmail.com.
Follow Swim Chats on Instagram, or support the podcast and become a Swim Buddy via Patreon.com/swimchats
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Kyoda and welcome to Swim Chats,a podcast about swimming.
I'm Shona Riddell, a writer, former journalist and swimmer
from Wellington, Altero in New Zealand.
For each episode, I talk to a different guest from our swim
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(00:31):
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(00:52):
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OK, now it's time for this week's episode where I'm talking
(01:13):
about swim books, music and films with my good friend
Sinead. First of all, Sinead, welcome to
Swim Chats. Thank you Shona.
What a great opportunity to talkabout two of my my most loved
activities, swimming and reading.
I know, me too. I've been looking forward to
(01:33):
this. And this is an idea that we both
sort of came to separately, isn't it?
So first of all, we'd better explain how we know each other.
So I think it was 3 or 4 years ago that I just started getting
in the sea and I was mostly doing it by myself, trying to
(01:54):
sort of find other people who might be doing it as well.
And there was a midwinter swim down the road in Breaker Bay
where they always do a sort of cold dip.
And then they hold a function intheir community hall to raise
money. And it involves sort of mulled
(02:15):
wine and hot soups and things. And so I remember being in there
in my, my swim jacket and warming up and someone mentioned
that there was a woman taking down names to, to set up a local
dippers group. And that was you.
That was me. And yeah, like you Shona, I have
been swimming around the South Coast, mainly on my own or maybe
(02:38):
with a friend and just thinking,oh, I'd like to, you know,
create a, a way of making this amore regular thing.
And I thought, well, if if therewas a WhatsApp group where I
could call on other fellow swimmers and dippers.
So obviously then an ideal hunting ground for those was
people who would turn out in midwinter to a swim at Breaker
(02:59):
Bay because I wanted it to be anall all, all year round thing.
And of course, after after forming the little WhatsApp
group, I discovered there was already loads of swimming groups
around the South Coast, which upto that point I knew nothing of.
So I really love the way now howour little group overlaps with
(03:20):
lots of the other groups and andjoined them for different
activities and like the 12 Days of Christmas and the Mato Ricky
swims. So it's just a whole great
community on the South Coast. So very happy to be a part of
it. That's right.
And we've got a really friendly group of dippers that meet on
(03:43):
Saturdays usually, but we can sort of plan swims whenever and
there's always someone out for it, isn't there?
Like no matter what the weather.Absolutely.
Well, you know, these past few because we do a full moon swim
every every full moon and obviously these winter ones are
quite challenging, but it's amazing that there's always
(04:04):
someone who who's ready to to join join going in for those.
Good for lifting the spirits andthe.
The great thing about the group,I think, is people come and go a
bit. You know, people travel or you
know, they get busy with work, but it's on whether people can
make it or not. And if people come, they come,
(04:26):
and if they can't, they don't. But they can always come back.
And so it's not something you'resort of committing to
religiously, but it's always there for people who want it.
Absolutely, Shawna. Well, from the outset, I wanted
a, a group that had no rules andno, you know, sort of minimum
admin. And so our group, you know, has
(04:49):
been like that very free flowing, like the sea.
And just as you say, people are swimming in and swimming out
and, and no pressure, no pressure.
People can wear, wear neoprene if they want, wear nothing if
they want. And yeah, so I think it's it's
developed organically quite nicely like that.
(05:10):
And and it'll go through many different phases, I'm sure.
But hopefully we'll keep going. That's the main thing.
Yeah. And I mentioned earlier that we
both came to the same idea aboutcoming on this podcast together
to talk about our enjoyment of books about swimming.
(05:30):
We both like reading and so we will swap recommendations for
books about the ocean and about swimming.
So you suggested that first of all we maybe we talk about what
is a swim book, what counts as aswim book, which I thought was a
really good idea. That's right.
(05:51):
Well, you know, you know how when you get really enthused
about something, you, you read all around it and you know,
books catch your eye that have the word swim in them when you
go into book shops, etcetera. And you know, I've kind of
noticed that swim books fall into well, there's the guides,
guides on how to improve your stroke and guides on safety for
(06:14):
ocean swimming and guides on everything to do with with the
actual act of swimming. But then there's another set of
guides about wonderful places toswim worldwide and in our
theoroa. And then there's sort of non
fiction accounts of people whosefor whom swimming has changed
(06:37):
their lives and, you know, curedtheir depression or helped them
through their cancer journey, etcetera.
And then there's but more more poetic and more sort of
literature type, you know, whereswimming is is is is kind of the
human stories behind why we swimand not of auto fiction.
(06:59):
You know, it's usually people's own accounts, but it can be pure
fiction and about about swimmingand life, I suppose.
So they're the main sort of buckets that I think swim books
fall into. And of course, there's the
division between books about pool swimming and books about
ocean swimming and some cover boats.
(07:20):
Yeah, exactly. And for me, often, even if a
book just has a few pages about swimming that resonate with me,
even if it's not exactly about swimming in its entirety, I
still think of it as a swimming book, and I might add it to my
collection. Absolutely.
Well, a couple of the books I'm going to review today fall into
(07:41):
that category show now, they're not, you know, meant to be
swimming books, but they have a few descriptions of swims, but
you can see how they're so important to the author and how
they inform lots of the other themes in the book.
And so I really enjoy those kindof books.
(08:02):
Yeah. So you and I have each assembled
3 books to talk about today, I think.
And you, you mentioned that we should probably say at the
beginning that we haven't included Roger Deakin's Waterlog
because I've already talked about it in a previous episode.
So if anybody is coming specifically to this episode and
(08:24):
wonder why why this founding sort of document of wild
swimming is not mentioned, that's because it's in a
previous episode, which I can link to in the show notes.
Sure, and maybe when I come on to discuss my books, I'll I'll I
and movies I'll point out how they have been influenced by the
(08:44):
Roger Deakin books. But we won't discuss his 1
today. Yeah, we can certainly reference
it. Yeah, because it's such a
formative piece of love. Absolutely the ultimate swimming
adventure book. Yes.
All right. Well, would you like to go first
with your first choice or would you like me to?
I don't mind. Well, I think we agreed we would
(09:08):
talk about guidebooks first and I can quickly take off my
guidebook, which is a guide to wonderful swimming places around
the world. It's a Lonely Planet publication
called The Joy of Wise Swimming 60 travel experiences to uplift
and inspire. And it's a coffee table book
(09:30):
with wonderful photos and it's the authors go around the world
to various iconic swimming spotsand, and then write about them.
And so it's, it's a beautiful book.
And you know, one that before I travel somewhere, I will consult
(09:52):
to see if there's a swimming spot I absolutely have to to
find on that trip. And I'm glad to see that they
include a couple of Kiwi iconic swimming spots, which I have not
been to, I should say. 1 is Whale Island Motuhara in the Bay
of Plenty. And, you know, you're taking out
(10:14):
there and you can dig a hole andswim in hot water on the beach
there. So that's one I've definitely
got to do. And I'm glad that this book to
point it out to me. And, you know, it mentions
swimming out to the rock carvings in Lake Taupo, which in
fact, Olivia and I and some other members of our group did
(10:38):
for Olivia's 60th birthday. So that was a wonderful swim.
And you know, I shockingly, the book doesn't mention our
wonderful South Coast beaches inWellington, but I was kind of
glad about that because I don't want hordes of international
tourists necessarily swamping them.
(10:58):
We want them selfishly all to ourselves.
So yeah, a great beautiful copy table table book about wonderful
swimming places. I love books like that because
you can just step into them, no pun intended.
And dream of future swim holidays.
Yeah, absolutely. And this is a, you know, a
(11:20):
global one, but you can get morespecific ones if you're going
somewhere in particular. For example, I know you recently
went on a wonderful swimming holiday to Sydney and there's
several books about the ocean pools in Sydney, Sydney and
swimming spots in Sydney. So same if you go to London,
there's a raft of books about the Hampstead Heath Ladies Pool.
(11:44):
And so, yeah, wherever you're going to go, just look up online
what the what the book and you'll find a book about guiding
you to, you know, more specific swimming spots in that place.
Awesome. All right.
Well, are we ready for the next book or is there more you'd like
(12:05):
to say about that one? No, you tell me about your
guide. Right, so for my guide book, I
chose a relatively new book called Taking the Plunge, The
Healing Power of Wild Swimming for Mind, Body and Soul.
I'm going to hold up the cover so Sinead can see it, but it
doesn't quite. Oh, there we are.
(12:27):
Cool. Yeah.
So I'll just describe it since this is an audio podcast.
It's, it's got the backs of maybe 7 people just starting to
walk into the sea with the golden maybe late afternoon sun
on them and they're walking intothe sea and it looks like a
colder season because most of them are wearing woolly hats on
(12:49):
their heads and togs on their bodies.
And the reason I chose this one,it was written in 2019 by Anna
Deacon and Vicki Allen. So one right one took photos and
it's just full of beautiful colour photos.
This is a book about wild swimming in the UK, but it sort
(13:11):
of applies to swimming everywhere.
It's got quotations just from everyday people about what is
special to them about swimming. And there's so much joy in it.
It talks about all the differenttypes of swims you can do.
You can do cold swims, swims on the nude, there are some bare
bum pictures, swims with family,you know, swims underwaterfalls.
(13:38):
There are some sort of more poignant chapters about swimming
through grief. Yeah, healing physical pain for
people who have had illnesses or, you know, community swims,
people literally breaking the ice, which they seem to do in
the UK in winter to get into cold water, swimming out of your
comfort zone, whatever that means to you.
(14:01):
Yeah. And just sort of being more
playful sunrise swims, which I know we love here as well.
There's also some good safety advice in there, you know, just
sort of the disclaimers about don't just jump in the sea in
winter if you've never done it before and, you know, ways to
warm up afterwards. So there's some practical
information in there too. But overall what I really love
(14:22):
about it is it's it's just this beautiful coffee table book that
celebrates open water swimming and whatever shape or form you
take it in. And yeah, the quotations from
people can often be quite moving.
So I've just picked a random onewhich I've bookmarked.
So Gabriella, A journalist from Glasgow, just said lots of
(14:45):
things went really badly wrong all at the same time in my
personal life, and I was lookingfor a way to manage my stress.
Before that period I was floating along sort of
directionless. Taking up swimming anchored me
to something solid. It gave me a code to live by,
one that forced me to take better care of myself.
I liked the shock of the cold water and the way it reboots my
(15:08):
brain. The colder and Wilder the sea
is, the better it seems to floodme with feel good chemicals.
Wow, yeah, that covers it all, doesn't it?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
And the other thing I like aboutit is it has a entire chapter
dedicated to body, body image. So I know for a lot of women,
(15:29):
swimmers in particular, not justwomen, but you know, when you
get into open water swimming, suddenly you're wearing togs and
a public arena. And that might be something that
people aren't used to. And, you know, sometimes you're
being photographed or filmed, you know, if you know, here in
New Zealand, sometimes, you know, TV crew come or a
(15:50):
newspaper photographer or, you know, if it's a special event.
And so you do, you do sort of have to rethink your body image
a little bit or become possibly a bit more comfortable with
being in public in your talks. I know that's something that I
thought about. And so I liked how the book
covered that. I think that's a really
important thing that it covered especially for younger women.
(16:13):
I think as we get older, you know, I'm a lot older than you
shall know, but umm, you, you stop, stop caring about that.
You honestly do, you know, uh, but obviously in my 20s, you
know, how I looked in my swimming suit would have been
paramount and in my mind if, if there was any kind of photos
been taken. So I think especially for
(16:35):
younger women, it's good to readthat stuff and realize honestly,
you know, of course we want to protect people's privacy as
well. And, and we don't want stuff
going up, you know, online that people might be comfortable
with, but but for ourselves to get comfortable in our own
skins, the sea and swimming can really help with that.
(16:57):
And yeah, if you spend a lot of time in your tugs and all kinds
of situations, it just becomes second nature and you don't even
worry about it too much. Yeah, that's right.
And you, you learn to appreciateyour body, I think.
And just yeah. Yeah, and what it can do and,
and and the joy you know that your body as well as your mind
gets from from while swimming and and even from bashing out
(17:21):
your links in the pool. All right, shall we move on to
our next book? What's your second book?
Well, so my next book is fallingmore into the realm of
literature. It's quite poetic and it's
called Small Bodies of Water andit's by a New Zealand young New
(17:46):
Zealand author. And again, as we talked about
earlier, it's not a swimming book.
It's, it's a book about growing up in Malaysia and New Zealand
and England. She's moved around a lot because
her parents were diplomats and, or one of them.
And you know, she's, she's just grappling with all the things
(18:07):
that any young woman growing up is grappling with love and
travel and achieving things and career.
And but she's swimming all the time, either in swimming pools
in Shanghai or back in Malaysia at her at her grandparents Golf
Club or in Hampstead Heath and also here on the South Coast of
(18:34):
Wellington where she lived. She she, she lived most of her
childhood and out in Days Bay. And I just love her little
descriptions of of swimming in Wellington.
I might read you one. So she says here.
To swim in Wellington Harbour isto swim in the deep seam between
two tilted pieces of land that have been pulled apart over time
(18:58):
near Oriental Bay. The harbour carries debris from
a summer storm just passed, shattered driftwood, seaweed
blooms, plastic milk bottle caps, the occasional earlobe
jellyfish. So I just think that's really
sweet. And it goes on in that vein.
And yeah, I think it's just beautiful, poetic book.
(19:20):
It's it's not a novel. It's more sort of what they call
auto fiction, you know, stories about your own life.
And another, another author who who does the same thing and also
writes about the South Coast of Wellington in this way is Ingrid
Horrocks. And she wrote a book called
Where We Swim, which is also about her swimming adventures
(19:42):
and she's nice descriptions of swimming on the South Coast.
She started the book, she was going to do this swimming
adventure from Wellington to Auckland.
But life kind of got in the way,twins and twin children and
ageing parents and all the usualthings.
But she, she just kept swimming as she could all through through
that. And that's another book I really
(20:04):
love. So they're two of a kind about
swimming and life. That's awesome.
Yeah. And Speaking of New Zealand swim
books, the one I've put aside isalso a swim book from a New
Zealand writer called Annette Lease.
And the book is called Swim a Year of Swimming Outdoors in New
(20:27):
Zealand. And this, this is all sorts of
she covers a lot in this book. I don't know if you've read it
today. So basically, she came to the
end of 1 summer and realized shehadn't been for a swim at all.
And she felt a bit annoyed with herself.
Yeah. And so she resolved that she
(20:48):
would spend an entire year swimming every single day.
And she kept a journal. And so woven throughout the book
is her journal of her year of swimming.
And it's divided by the seasons.So no matter where she is and no
matter what what what else is happening, she gets in and she
makes a record of the swim. So she committed to that one
(21:09):
whole year, which is pretty amazing.
Like I know you and I both swim through the year, but probably
not every single day. Yeah.
So that that's a big commitment.And and then sort of alongside
that, she covers like a history of swimming in New Zealand.
And I really like how she includes Maori pre colonial
(21:31):
history as well. So Maori stories of, you know,
people achieving long swims or, you know, the, the history of
Maori people connecting physically but also spiritually
with the water, different bodiesof water, which I think is
really important. And then once Europeans arrive,
(21:51):
you know, swimming becomes quiteubiquitous and you've got
families swimming, you've got kids swimming, you've got sort
of the early Olympian training, you've got woman being
discouraged from swimming, you know, because it wasn't seen as
ladylike. And so, yeah, it's, I wouldn't
(22:12):
describe it as a coffee table book, but it's definitely a book
you can pick up and put down andjust read a few pages of.
And there are lots of pictures throughout.
And I'm always interested in thehistory side of things.
Yeah, I like how that's covered.I think if you're a swimmer in
New Zealand then you should definitely have a copy of this
book. Well, I'm definitely gonna get a
(22:34):
copy. I love that, yeah, Shona of, you
know, sending yourself those challenges like swim every day
of the year. I did it 1 October, that I was
going to swim every single day in October.
And even that was quite a commitment.
And so for her to do it, you know, for 12 months is pretty,
pretty amazing. So I, I definitely would love to
read that. Yeah.
(22:56):
You can borrow my car Bay with you.
Thank you. All right, What's next on your
list? What's next on my list?
Well, you know, there's no comparison between ocean
swimming and pool swimming. I mean, ocean swimming for me
Trump's at every time. But, you know, there's a lot to
(23:18):
be said for pool swimming as well, especially for people who
haven't access to the ocean. And so, you know, I think we
should also look at that and onebook which is all about swimming
pool culture, which I really love, is called The Swimmers,
and it came out in 2022 and it'sby a Japanese American writer
(23:42):
called Julie Otsuka. And it's a wonderful book.
So the first part of it is all about this small community
swimming pool where all these different people go and all
their stories. And then this mysterious crack
appears in the bottom of the swimming pool and starts to
spread. And I won't tell you the whole
story because I'll ruin it. But so there's all the drama of
(24:06):
that. And, you know, it ends quite
dramatically that side of it. But there's another whole theme
going on where one of the group of swimmers is, is actually sort
of in the midst of cognitive decline.
And, you know, she forgets whereher locker is and she puts her
tongs on back to front and all that above ground.
(24:28):
But once she gets in the pool, you know, she's a complete
natural and she swims her lengths very beautifully and
everybody admires her. And so it's it's a fantastic
book. And, you know, I had kind of
fallen out of love with pool swimming since the pandemic,
really. But rereading this book for the,
(24:50):
you know, in preparation for thepodcast, I was, Oh my God, I got
myself down to Freiburg and, andrediscovered the joys of, of
lame swimming and the whole poolscene and, yeah, renewed my swim
membership and oh, wow. So it's nice how books can take
you back to swimming as well as swimming.
(25:11):
Create books. So I totally recommend this
book. It's also, you know, covers
themes to do with the Japanese in in the States and what they
went through, you know, during and after the war in terms of
being sent to internment camps, etcetera.
So it's a really interesting social history of the Japanese
(25:34):
in America, a study of, you know, declining cognitive
decline, which a lot of us probably have dealing with,
with, you know, older relatives,etcetera.
But but the most exciting part from the point of view of this
podcast is the amazing first section.
It's a slim novel, but the firstsection about all the characters
(25:56):
at the swimming pool and this mysterious crack.
And so I totally recommend that as a as a swimming pool book.
That sounds awesome, I might have to borrow that one too.
Yeah, you can get it at the library and and you can also
listen to it as an audio book onthe Wellington City Library app.
So easily easily available. Cool, and I'll mention now I'll
(26:21):
link to all these books in the show notes as well so people can
find out more. Absolutely.
And what's your next book, Shawna?
So Speaking of pool books, well,not not specifically a pool
book, but it's sort of a guide book like you mentioned earlier
about improving your swim technique.
And so this is called The Swim Mastery Way, written by Tracy
(26:45):
Bellman, who's a swim coach in Australia, and it was just
published last year. So small disclaimer, I am
involved with Swim Master, I've been on some of their camps and
I do know Tracy, but I do still strongly recommend this book
because the swim mastery technique has really helped me
with my swimming. And also I interviewed one of
(27:08):
their coaches, Melissa Donaldson, who's an ultra
marathon swimmer in her 50s. And so she's in one of the
earlier episodes of this podcast.
So Tracy, who's the head coach, has been a swim coach for 30
years and obviously has learned a lot and seen a lot over that
time. And basically the swim mastery
(27:29):
technique is for freestyle. And they give you cues that sort
of put your body in the right position to help you avoid
injury. Like shoulder injuries are
really common for swimmers who are doing just that, repetitive
movement over and over of the freestyle.
RSI. Yes, exactly.
And so it breaks everything down.
(27:49):
There are lots of pictures in the book.
So you can sort of practice the the positions.
And it sort of explains the science behind swimming as well,
which I like because water is 800 times denser than air.
And obviously as humans, we're not used to being in water
necessarily. And so we sort of have all these
(28:10):
natural human impulses, which is, you know, like lifting our
heads to, you know, make sure weget enough oxygen and moving our
arms and legs around to sort of try and propel ourselves.
But it's not necessarily the best way to move through the
water. In fact, that often makes it a
lot harder. And we get a lot more tired by
by doing that. And the book also focuses, first
(28:33):
of all, on breathing, which is the most important thing because
if you're not breathing correctly in the water, it
doesn't matter how amazing your technique is or how fast you
are, like within a few minutes, you're going to be exhausted and
out of breath because you're notgetting enough oxygen.
Yeah. So that's really fundamental.
Yeah. So that's my little plug for the
(28:53):
the Swim Mastery book. But yeah, it has helped with my
technique. It's and it's made me faster,
but without trying to be faster,if that makes sense.
Yes, that does make sense. And you know, Sharon, I know
you're going through the swim mastery training yourself.
And I know there's a few of us in Wahini Y, which is our
(29:13):
WhatsApp group name, that are keen to be your Guinea pigs when
you want to start, you know, passing on your, your new
knowledge. So it's well done for, for
taking your swimming to such a, such a high level, you know,
from starting as, as a dipper with some of us, you've really,
(29:34):
you know, gone, gone the distance, which is amazingly,
which is amazingly inspirational.
And you know, everybody is not going to do all the things
you've done, but we love hearingabout them.
And, and so you're a great inspiration on many levels in
this swimming community in Wellington.
(29:55):
Now, Shona and this podcast, I just love listening to it.
It's, it's got so many differentaspects to it.
So keep up the good work. Oh.
Thank you, Shanae. That means a lot.
All right, I realize I have miscounted and I've actually
come up with a fourth book to talk about.
Oh for it. Because I just get so excited
(30:18):
about this topic, I'll just quickly mention it.
It's called Swimming to Antarctica by Lynn Cox.
Yeah. So she is an ultra marathon
swimmer from America. And as the title suggests, she
did swim and and tucked with her.
She was the first person to do an eye smile down there.
Yeah, so. We've done a lot of other world
(30:38):
first swims, so, you know, starting in the, I think in the
1980s. And she's just a phenomenal
person that she quietly sets herself these goals and she'll
swim a body of water that no oneelse has ever swum in.
And of course, people will say you're crazy.
You know, that can't be done. And then she just does it.
(31:00):
And so the book is sort of a bitof a memoir, just talking
through all these different swims and how she became an open
water swimmer. And I just sort of love the the
matter of factness of it, I suppose.
You know, she's not Tooting her own horn.
Yeah. She's just setting herself these
goals and those one swim she didbetween America and the Soviet
(31:26):
Union in the 80s. Yeah.
During the Cold War and across the Bering Strait and is
credited of with, you know, sortof helping the relationship
between the two countries. Like it was Reagan and Gorbachev
who both sort of publicly mentioned her swarm and it
seemed to kind of bring the two sides together, possibly helping
(31:48):
with the the thawing. Yeah.
I don't know. I wouldn't necessarily brought
about the end of the cult, right.
It definitely was some positive news.
And you know. Yeah.
Yeah. And, and then near the end of
the book, she talks about her swim in Antarctica and what that
(32:08):
was like. And so I'll just quickly read 1
paragraph from it. So this is sort of before her,
her first swim in Antarctica. I stuck my head outside again,
determined to maintain my calm. It was so cold.
They still weren't ready. The waiting was nearly the
hardest part. But the hardest part would be
(32:29):
jumping into the frigid water and making the swim.
I smiled. I thought back to what a friend
had told me. You're so ready for this, have
no doubts. He was right, I was ready.
I didn't doubt. Taking another deep breath, I
looked out again. Everything was set.
I started down the gangway, holding tight to the ice cold
railing with my right hand, hanging on to my goggles with my
(32:52):
left hand and watching my feet, making sure I placed each
solidly on each step. When I reached the bottom of the
stairs, I sat down on a platformand looked at the crew.
They were smiling reassuringly. They were as ready and as
apprehensive and excited as I was.
I smiled at them and then I retreated deep into my mind and
(33:13):
took one last moment to focus within myself.
I didn't want to remain there long.
The platform was so cold I felt like I was sitting on a giant
ice cube tray. My feet dangled inches above the
water. Wow.
Yeah, I have actually read that,that one.
It is an incredibly inspirational book.
(33:33):
Yeah. I mean, most of us are never
going to do these feats. But you know, sometimes if
you've just read a chapter of a book like that and you're
humming and hawing whether you should go out for a If I swim
here in the hail and snow winterWellington day, you think, Oh my
God, you know, that's nothing compared to what she did.
So outwit me, you know? So it's really good to read
(33:55):
books like that, even though most of us will never achieve
her high. Exactly.
Yeah. It doesn't make me think, oh, I
want to go and swim. And I smile.
In Antarctica, the way she writes is so sort of matter of
fact. You.
You sort of feel like you're there with her.
Yeah. She's describing the atmosphere
and how she's feeling and yeah, so you feel like you're
(34:17):
alongside her with on her big swims, which is pretty amazing
achievement. And do you know, is she still
doing epic swims? And I don't, I don't think she
is doing, I think she does more sort of public speaking these
days and she's written children's books.
But this is the I think this is the 50th anniversary of her Cook
Straight swim. OK.
(34:39):
Yeah, yeah. So that that was a big
achievement as well. Yeah, so she's sort of, you
know, similar to Diane Nyad in ways who more people know about
through the movie, but. Yeah, that's right.
Len Cox needs her own movie. That's what she.
Yeah, she certainly does these wonderful women swimmers and
(35:01):
yeah. So we we're actually doing
really well for time. We we were saying that we'd also
like to talk about some couple of songs and movies.
Sure. Well, you know, unfortunately I
think through copyright restrictions you can't play the
songs. But one song that I think should
(35:23):
be on every swimmers playlist isis called The Swimming Song by
Loudon Wainwright. And I'm not going to sing it
here now, but I could kind of, you know, say a few lines of it,
which are, you know, this summerI went swimming.
This summer I nearly drowned. But I kicked my legs and I, oh,
(35:47):
I thought I knew it off my heart.
Anyway, he moved his arms aroundand and moved his arms around
the summer. He swam in the ocean.
I swam in a swimming pool. Salt in my eyes, chlorine in my
eyes, salt in my wounds, chlorine in my eyes.
I'm a self-destructive fool. And so it goes on and it's it's
just joyful and funny and you know, obviously has that terror
(36:11):
thing. I nearly drowned and, you know,
getting salt in my but, you know, people have analyzed and
said, oh, it's all about his addiction, but it's about this.
But he just came back and said, hey, it's just about the joy of
swimming. And I often play it when I'm
driving over towards the South Coast for swim to just get me in
the mood. Love it.
(36:31):
Yeah, I love it too. There's lots.
Of cover versions, you know, Kate now, Mcgarrigle and various
other people. So yeah, definitely one for our
playlists if it's not already onthere.
Yep, and I will I'll link to that in the show notes as well
the Spotify link so people can go and have a listen if they.
Don't. But it is a swimming classic,
isn't it? Yeah.
(36:51):
Totally. And the song I chose is it's a
little bit more low key and poignant, but children of the
90s and old people might remember it.
It's R.E.M.'s night swimming.
So the song came out in the early 90s and from their album
Automatic for the People, which was their sort of huge hit
(37:12):
album. And it's it's quite a simple
song in terms of it's got piano,it's got Michael Stipes lyrics,
and it's got a sort of orchestral arrangement, which
was apparently done by Led Zeppelin's John Paul Jones.
Yeah. So it's not sort of this rousing
(37:32):
rock tune, but it's. Yeah, like I said, it's poignant
in it. It's sort of got this element of
nostalgia because someone's driving along and there's a
photograph on their windshield and it reminds them of a swim at
night that they had when they were young, naked in a lake.
And it's it's very poetic. So again, I'm not going to sing,
(37:57):
but some of the lyrics go night swimming, remembering that
night. September's coming soon.
I'm pining for the moon. And what if there were two side
by side in orbit around the fairest sun?
That bright, tight forever drum could not describe night
swimming. Oh wow.
Yeah. So it's really.
(38:18):
Very special, aren't they? Yeah, and it it's the way the
memory is described in the song.It's so vivid that you almost
feel like it's your own memory, and then you start remembering
well, for me, I start remembering special swims that I
had when I was younger, that feeling of freedom.
I think as adults, that's partlywhy we love swimming is because
(38:41):
you sort of recapture that playfulness and that feeling of
freedom. You know, it really, because in
middle age, you know, we're so burdened down with, you know,
careers and aging parents and children and this and that.
And at a certain point, you know, you often find women about
(39:02):
my age start getting heavily into swimming because they've
passed off a lot of those burdens.
Or while they have them, they'llsneak off and have a swim when
they can. But but to be able to totally
surrender to the joy of swimmingafter sort of some of those
burdens have been lifted and really makes you feel like a
child again, free. I don't have to rush back to
(39:23):
work or I don't have to do this,you know, so it is, it's such a
source of joy swimming and we'reso lucky to to have it as a part
of our lives. You know, I always think about
people who don't swim. Oh, they just don't know what
they're missing. But of course, each to their own
and it's not for everyone. That's right, yeah.
(39:46):
And we've each picked a film, I think.
Is that correct? Yeah, yeah.
So the, the film that I picked as the classic swimming film,
and it's a swimming pool pool film and it's based on a, it's
called The Swimmer and it's based on a short story by John
(40:08):
Cheever. And it's about this guy, Ned,
this man, you know, he's an advertising executive or
something in, in Connecticut. And he's at a pool party and he
gets the idea that he's going toswim his way home through all
the neighborhood pools and. And and this just seems like a
really fun idea and it starts off pretty fun and he meets, you
(40:30):
know, ex lovers and nudists and all sorts of people along the
way and has adventures and encounters with them.
But progressively it gets darkerand the season changes and he
gets older in the course of thisswim till he reaches his home.
And I won't disclose the the ending, but, you know, it ends
(40:53):
quite darkly. And, and I thought it was
interesting because, you know, most depictions of swimming
pools in movies are, you know, people lounging by the pool and,
and sun. And there's the odd, you know,
body found in the pool, of course, and murder mysteries.
But generally pools are depictedas places of fun.
(41:16):
And this, this, this turns it into something else.
And so I, I think the short story is brilliant.
I think the film is quite good. And but we're definitely
recommend the John Cheever shortstory film short story that the
film is based on. Yeah.
(41:36):
And I mentioned earlier sort of a now emails that we were
swapping. I I just read the short story
for the first time a couple of days ago after we were talking
about it, and I know that that short story was what inspired
Roger Deakin to do his waterlog journey swimming through
waterways in Britain. Yeah, which is amazing because,
(41:59):
you know, there's such differentkinds of journeys and but it's
just this again shows how reading and swimming into link.
And you know, we also, I also mentioned earlier that Roger
Deakin inspired like Ingrid Horrocks to do to plan her swim
from Wellington to Auckland through the the waterways.
And so there's all these, you know, pieces in literature and
(42:23):
popular culture influencing swimmers and swimmers,
journeying journeys, influencingbooks and poetry.
That's right. It's all connected.
And I love the idea of swimming or waterways as sort of mapping,
you know, like these plants as their own map or channel for a
journey. You know, often we think of maps
(42:46):
being very land based with, you know, routes following roads.
And so with the swimmer, he's following swimming pools to get
home. Like that's his journey home.
Yeah. For Roger Deakin it was, you
know, ponds and lidos and oceansand rivers.
It was all sorts of waterways. Yeah, yeah.
(43:06):
Yeah, but with the the swimming the swimmer story, it was a lot
darker than I expected. Yeah.
Yeah, I really loved it. It stayed with me a few days.
And yeah, again, I won't spoil the ending, but yeah, yeah.
So we're sort of reflection on life, isn't it?
Well, absolutely. And refreshing coming out of
(43:27):
Hollywood. Burt Lancaster is the main star
in the movie. And, you know, usually you're
expecting happy Hollywood's happy ending, but not, not in
this case. And so, yeah, it's worth a look,
even though it was made so long ago in 1965.
And people who are more sort of into film will probably, you
(43:47):
know, sort of notice all kinds of things with the
cinematography, etcetera. But I'm just really interested
in the story and would recommendit on that basis.
Yeah, good choice. And the the film I wanted to
talk about is a documentary. It's called Kim Swims and it
came out in 2017 and it's about a New Zealand woman called Kim
(44:12):
Chamberlain. The film's been described, I saw
online as the most inspirationalsports film since Rocky.
Wow, better watch that one. Interesting comparison.
So Kim was living in San Francisco.
She almost lost her leg in an accident.
And for her rehabilitation, she started swimming.
(44:35):
And she tried swimming in the sea versus the pool, discovered
she loved it, even though the, you know, the waters of San
Francisco, I think, are quite wild and chilly, but, you know,
invigorating for her. And so slowly her swims got
longer and longer. And then she ended up completing
the Ocean 7, which is sort of the ultimate, you know,
worldwide ultra marathon swims. And she set her sights on a swim
(45:02):
back in San Francisco to the Farollan Islands.
Or actually, I think it started in the Farollan Islands and then
ended at Golden Gate Bridge, which was a distance of 30
miles. And it's using our metric
system. That's almost 50 kilometers.
It's a big swim, but also it's in what's known as the red
triangle, which is like a great white shark.
(45:24):
Yes. Just to add to the challenge,
there was an Australian man who attempted the swim just a few
weeks before she was due to do it and he ended up being pulled
out of the water because a sharkwas circling him.
And then a call to out. So she, I'm sure she had that on
(45:45):
her mind when she. So yeah, the documentary follows
her, you know, preparation for it and the emotions behind it.
You know, there's determination and this, but, you know, she
seems more worried that she won't be allowed to go ahead
with it, if that makes sense. Then worry about the swim
itself. Yeah.
(46:05):
So she gets in the water, she gets off the boat at in the
middle of the night to start theswim.
And so again, it's sort of like the Lynn Cox book where you feel
like you're you're with her. You know, you're getting in and
you can almost feel the cold, dark water in this jockey area.
And yeah, so you're swimming with her overnight and then
(46:26):
through the next day. And, you know, spoiler alert,
she does complete the swim. So this you know, the
documentary has a happy ending, but.
Yeah. Particularly that it's a New
Zealand woman. She was the first woman I
believe to complete the swim andonly a handful of people have
done it. So yeah, highly recommend Kim
Swims if you. Oh, definitely, yeah.
(46:49):
And Shawna, you being a writer, have you any particular swimming
adventure or experience that youhave written about or would like
to write about? Oh, good question.
I would love to write a book about swimming at some point.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, but there's so many sort of
(47:12):
elements to swimming, it's, it'salmost hard to know where to
start. You know, it's the, the
technique, the open water, the people.
And so for me, the the podcast does a great sort of interim
step. I'm really enjoying hearing
everybody else's stories and sort of meeting all these
different people and being able to ask them questions about
(47:33):
their swimming. So yeah, I've done a bit of
writing about my swimming, but not too much yet.
But yeah, I would like to do more.
But I still, I sort of feel likeI'm, I'm still in the middle of
the the journey, so. Yes, that makes sense.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, we we haven't
(47:55):
talked in this episode of your podcast about poetry and you
know, there's a whole body of swimming poetry and swimming
haiku. And as you say, there's swimming
in mythology. Well, Maori mythology you
mentioned in particular is relevant to us here in our
tarot. But in in Irish mythology, we
(48:17):
have the selkies, the seal women, there's the whole mermaid
and thing, some creatures that are half human, half, half sea
creature. And I think it will be
fascinating to, to do a podcast on those two topics.
If you ever got the chance, you know one about swimming in
mythology, and one about, yes, sea creatures besides ourselves.
(48:42):
That's such a good idea. All right, Well, let's do it,
yeah. Let's do this thing, yeah?
Yeah, definitely. Cool.
All right, Shanae. Well, is there anything else you
want to talk about before we. Oh, I should ask you about your
urine swimming. You grew up in Ireland.
Yeah, I grew up in Ireland in a very urban environment, living
(49:07):
over at my parents shop in a very city, part of Dublin.
So but, but my, my parents were really intent on making sure we
all learned to swim. So we learned to swim in the
local pool and then we got a batch by the sea.
So we swam every summer and I loved to swim and I've swam all
(49:28):
my life really in pools on the sea, wherever I've been.
But it's only become really a passion since I turned 60 and
had this idea to to swim more regularly on the South Coast.
And so since then I've been looking out wherever I am, I
(49:48):
look out for swimming adventures.
For example, couple of years back I walked the most for
track. And one of the guides said to us
at the beginning, you know, we always have a swimming challenge
on this track. And he said the challenges that
you swim in a fjord, A Cairn, a river under a waterfall, I
(50:09):
forget what else. But anybody of water that we
encountered basically on the Milford track, they said anybody
who completes them all, we have a trophy waiting in the Milford
Lodge when when we finish. So I completed them all.
I have to say, swimming isn't the word here.
(50:29):
It was basically a dip in an icycold Cairn on the top of, you
know, the McKinnon Pass or somewhere.
But it was a great it was a great challenge and I really
enjoyed it. And lots of whiskey was drunk in
the in the Milford Lounge to celebrate, just one of the guys
and myself managing to complete the challenge.
(50:52):
So that that was really fun. And, you know, another example
how you can combine swimming ventures with something else you
do, like tramping or, you know, travelling or whatever.
Yeah. So you don't have to have a
bespoke swimming holiday. So I am actually looking forward
to going on one of those and might go in following your
(51:15):
footsteps and go on one in the ocean pools in Sydney with a
friend of mine who's keen to do it.
And but yeah, you can combine itwith other things you're doing,
and that's so much fun. But yeah, that's such a good
point, actually. But yeah, you can incorporate
swimming into any trip. And I think as soon as we do do
that, don't we? Yeah.
(51:36):
I find these days I that's a priority for me.
So if I'm going somewhere, it's,you know, I want to stay near a
body, a body of water. Yeah.
Yeah. You're always going a holiday
around it. You're not going to be going
into the Australian desert unless you can find a Oasis or
swim hole in there somewhere. Exactly.
(51:56):
And with the Sydney ocean pools,I got a book about them for
Christmas, so I can love you. Yeah, so many of them.
There are so many and what a great, what a great reason
listen to have a holiday rather than just going and, you know,
visiting the Art Museum and eating too much.
And you have this focus where you, it's kind of like I'm in
(52:19):
another group which is a knitting group.
And though nobody in that group seems awfully keen on swimming,
apart from Claudia who comes sometimes from our swimming
group, they, they are all, you know, ferociously enthusiastic
knitters and they go on knittingholidays to Estonia and Tasmania
to learn new techniques and, andit's the same kind of thing, you
(52:42):
know. So definitely a great reason to,
well, a great enhancement to your travels to, to have an
interest like that that you pursue.
Yeah. And if we're any good, and I'm
sure you're much better than me at this, is to record them, you
know, for future to inspire others and to write something
(53:03):
about them, a diary or a poem orwhatever, even if it's not great
literature that maybe later you can put put together into some
kind of form that that others could enjoy, you know?
Exactly. Yeah.
And even just to remind ourselves of the.
To read them back after when on my couch, I lie.
(53:25):
When we're when we're really tooancient to get ourselves off to
the pool of the sea, we can we can read back over our swimming
adventures. Our swim Diaries.
Yeah, Yes. Oh, thank you, Sinead.
I've enjoyed this chat so much. I knew I would.
I really enjoyed it too, could talk for hours about swimming
(53:45):
and books and. Yeah, well, have you back to
talk about Swim, Swim mythology?And swim poetry.
Yeah, and. Swim poetry.
I would love to do that. Thanks again, Shona.
Thank you and thank you for yourcompany in the water and for
founding our Dippers Group, which I know has meant a lot to
all of us. Oh, well, thank you for all the
(54:07):
inspiration that you provide to all of us also and the people
you introduce us to, for example, Brick Brainer and other
great swimmers and great swimming topics through your
podcast. So thanks again, Shona.
Thank you. Thanks for listening to this
episode of Swim Chats. Please remember to follow or
subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss an episode.
(54:30):
And if you enjoyed it, you can leave a five star rating and
review which helps other people find it too.
Enjoy the water and we'll see you next time.
Kyoda and welcome to Swim Chats,a podcast about swimming.
I'm Shona Riddell, a writer, former journalist and swimmer
from Wellington, Altero in New Zealand.
For each episode, I talk to a different guest from our swim
community. Remember, if you have any
questions, thoughts or suggestions, you can e-mail me
at swimchatswithshona@gmail.com or follow Swim Chats on
(00:31):
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(00:52):
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To find out more, go to patreon.com/swim Chats.
OK, now it's time for this week's episode where I'm talking
(01:13):
about swim books, music and films with my good friend
Sinead. First of all, Sinead, welcome to
Swim Chats. Thank you Shona.
What a great opportunity to talkabout two of my my most loved
activities, swimming and reading.
I know, me too. I've been looking forward to
(01:33):
this. And this is an idea that we both
sort of came to separately, isn't it?
So first of all, we'd better explain how we know each other.
So I think it was 3 or 4 years ago that I just started getting
in the sea and I was mostly doing it by myself, trying to
(01:54):
sort of find other people who might be doing it as well.
And there was a midwinter swim down the road in Breaker Bay
where they always do a sort of cold dip.
And then they hold a function intheir community hall to raise
money. And it involves sort of mulled
(02:15):
wine and hot soups and things. And so I remember being in there
in my, my swim jacket and warming up and someone mentioned
that there was a woman taking down names to, to set up a local
dippers group. And that was you.
That was me. And yeah, like you Shona, I have
been swimming around the South Coast, mainly on my own or maybe
(02:38):
with a friend and just thinking,oh, I'd like to, you know,
create a, a way of making this amore regular thing.
And I thought, well, if if therewas a WhatsApp group where I
could call on other fellow swimmers and dippers.
So obviously then an ideal hunting ground for those was
people who would turn out in midwinter to a swim at Breaker
(02:59):
Bay because I wanted it to be anall all, all year round thing.
And of course, after after forming the little WhatsApp
group, I discovered there was already loads of swimming groups
around the South Coast, which upto that point I knew nothing of.
So I really love the way now howour little group overlaps with
(03:20):
lots of the other groups and andjoined them for different
activities and like the 12 Days of Christmas and the Mato Ricky
swims. So it's just a whole great
community on the South Coast. So very happy to be a part of
it. That's right.
And we've got a really friendly group of dippers that meet on
(03:43):
Saturdays usually, but we can sort of plan swims whenever and
there's always someone out for it, isn't there?
Like no matter what the weather.Absolutely.
Well, you know, these past few because we do a full moon swim
every every full moon and obviously these winter ones are
quite challenging, but it's amazing that there's always
(04:04):
someone who who's ready to to join join going in for those.
Good for lifting the spirits andthe.
The great thing about the group,I think, is people come and go a
bit. You know, people travel or you
know, they get busy with work, but it's on whether people can
make it or not. And if people come, they come,
(04:26):
and if they can't, they don't. But they can always come back.
And so it's not something you'resort of committing to
religiously, but it's always there for people who want it.
Absolutely, Shawna. Well, from the outset, I wanted
a, a group that had no rules andno, you know, sort of minimum
admin. And so our group, you know, has
(04:49):
been like that very free flowing, like the sea.
And just as you say, people are swimming in and swimming out
and, and no pressure, no pressure.
People can wear, wear neoprene if they want, wear nothing if
they want. And yeah, so I think it's it's
developed organically quite nicely like that.
(05:10):
And and it'll go through many different phases, I'm sure.
But hopefully we'll keep going. That's the main thing.
Yeah. And I mentioned earlier that we
both came to the same idea aboutcoming on this podcast together
to talk about our enjoyment of books about swimming.
(05:30):
We both like reading and so we will swap recommendations for
books about the ocean and about swimming.
So you suggested that first of all we maybe we talk about what
is a swim book, what counts as aswim book, which I thought was a
really good idea. That's right.
(05:51):
Well, you know, you know how when you get really enthused
about something, you, you read all around it and you know,
books catch your eye that have the word swim in them when you
go into book shops, etcetera. And you know, I've kind of
noticed that swim books fall into well, there's the guides,
guides on how to improve your stroke and guides on safety for
(06:14):
ocean swimming and guides on everything to do with with the
actual act of swimming. But then there's another set of
guides about wonderful places toswim worldwide and in our
theoroa. And then there's sort of non
fiction accounts of people whosefor whom swimming has changed
(06:37):
their lives and, you know, curedtheir depression or helped them
through their cancer journey, etcetera.
And then there's but more more poetic and more sort of
literature type, you know, whereswimming is is is is kind of the
human stories behind why we swimand not of auto fiction.
(06:59):
You know, it's usually people's own accounts, but it can be pure
fiction and about about swimmingand life, I suppose.
So they're the main sort of buckets that I think swim books
fall into. And of course, there's the
division between books about pool swimming and books about
ocean swimming and some cover boats.
(07:20):
Yeah, exactly. And for me, often, even if a
book just has a few pages about swimming that resonate with me,
even if it's not exactly about swimming in its entirety, I
still think of it as a swimming book, and I might add it to my
collection. Absolutely.
Well, a couple of the books I'm going to review today fall into
(07:41):
that category show now, they're not, you know, meant to be
swimming books, but they have a few descriptions of swims, but
you can see how they're so important to the author and how
they inform lots of the other themes in the book.
And so I really enjoy those kindof books.
(08:02):
Yeah. So you and I have each assembled
3 books to talk about today, I think.
And you, you mentioned that we should probably say at the
beginning that we haven't included Roger Deakin's Waterlog
because I've already talked about it in a previous episode.
So if anybody is coming specifically to this episode and
(08:24):
wonder why why this founding sort of document of wild
swimming is not mentioned, that's because it's in a
previous episode, which I can link to in the show notes.
Sure, and maybe when I come on to discuss my books, I'll I'll I
and movies I'll point out how they have been influenced by the
(08:44):
Roger Deakin books. But we won't discuss his 1
today. Yeah, we can certainly reference
it. Yeah, because it's such a
formative piece of love. Absolutely the ultimate swimming
adventure book. Yes.
All right. Well, would you like to go first
with your first choice or would you like me to?
I don't mind. Well, I think we agreed we would
(09:08):
talk about guidebooks first and I can quickly take off my
guidebook, which is a guide to wonderful swimming places around
the world. It's a Lonely Planet publication
called The Joy of Wise Swimming 60 travel experiences to uplift
and inspire. And it's a coffee table book
(09:30):
with wonderful photos and it's the authors go around the world
to various iconic swimming spotsand, and then write about them.
And so it's, it's a beautiful book.
And you know, one that before I travel somewhere, I will consult
(09:52):
to see if there's a swimming spot I absolutely have to to
find on that trip. And I'm glad to see that they
include a couple of Kiwi iconic swimming spots, which I have not
been to, I should say. 1 is Whale Island Motuhara in the Bay
of Plenty. And, you know, you're taking out
(10:14):
there and you can dig a hole andswim in hot water on the beach
there. So that's one I've definitely
got to do. And I'm glad that this book to
point it out to me. And, you know, it mentions
swimming out to the rock carvings in Lake Taupo, which in
fact, Olivia and I and some other members of our group did
(10:38):
for Olivia's 60th birthday. So that was a wonderful swim.
And you know, I shockingly, the book doesn't mention our
wonderful South Coast beaches inWellington, but I was kind of
glad about that because I don't want hordes of international
tourists necessarily swamping them.
(10:58):
We want them selfishly all to ourselves.
So yeah, a great beautiful copy table table book about wonderful
swimming places. I love books like that because
you can just step into them, no pun intended.
And dream of future swim holidays.
Yeah, absolutely. And this is a, you know, a
(11:20):
global one, but you can get morespecific ones if you're going
somewhere in particular. For example, I know you recently
went on a wonderful swimming holiday to Sydney and there's
several books about the ocean pools in Sydney, Sydney and
swimming spots in Sydney. So same if you go to London,
there's a raft of books about the Hampstead Heath Ladies Pool.
(11:44):
And so, yeah, wherever you're going to go, just look up online
what the what the book and you'll find a book about guiding
you to, you know, more specific swimming spots in that place.
Awesome. All right.
Well, are we ready for the next book or is there more you'd like
(12:05):
to say about that one? No, you tell me about your
guide. Right, so for my guide book, I
chose a relatively new book called Taking the Plunge, The
Healing Power of Wild Swimming for Mind, Body and Soul.
I'm going to hold up the cover so Sinead can see it, but it
doesn't quite. Oh, there we are.
(12:27):
Cool. Yeah.
So I'll just describe it since this is an audio podcast.
It's, it's got the backs of maybe 7 people just starting to
walk into the sea with the golden maybe late afternoon sun
on them and they're walking intothe sea and it looks like a
colder season because most of them are wearing woolly hats on
(12:49):
their heads and togs on their bodies.
And the reason I chose this one,it was written in 2019 by Anna
Deacon and Vicki Allen. So one right one took photos and
it's just full of beautiful colour photos.
This is a book about wild swimming in the UK, but it sort
(13:11):
of applies to swimming everywhere.
It's got quotations just from everyday people about what is
special to them about swimming. And there's so much joy in it.
It talks about all the differenttypes of swims you can do.
You can do cold swims, swims on the nude, there are some bare
bum pictures, swims with family,you know, swims underwaterfalls.
(13:38):
There are some sort of more poignant chapters about swimming
through grief. Yeah, healing physical pain for
people who have had illnesses or, you know, community swims,
people literally breaking the ice, which they seem to do in
the UK in winter to get into cold water, swimming out of your
comfort zone, whatever that means to you.
(14:01):
Yeah. And just sort of being more
playful sunrise swims, which I know we love here as well.
There's also some good safety advice in there, you know, just
sort of the disclaimers about don't just jump in the sea in
winter if you've never done it before and, you know, ways to
warm up afterwards. So there's some practical
information in there too. But overall what I really love
(14:22):
about it is it's it's just this beautiful coffee table book that
celebrates open water swimming and whatever shape or form you
take it in. And yeah, the quotations from
people can often be quite moving.
So I've just picked a random onewhich I've bookmarked.
So Gabriella, A journalist from Glasgow, just said lots of
(14:45):
things went really badly wrong all at the same time in my
personal life, and I was lookingfor a way to manage my stress.
Before that period I was floating along sort of
directionless. Taking up swimming anchored me
to something solid. It gave me a code to live by,
one that forced me to take better care of myself.
I liked the shock of the cold water and the way it reboots my
(15:08):
brain. The colder and Wilder the sea
is, the better it seems to floodme with feel good chemicals.
Wow, yeah, that covers it all, doesn't it?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
And the other thing I like aboutit is it has a entire chapter
dedicated to body, body image. So I know for a lot of women,
(15:29):
swimmers in particular, not justwomen, but you know, when you
get into open water swimming, suddenly you're wearing togs and
a public arena. And that might be something that
people aren't used to. And, you know, sometimes you're
being photographed or filmed, you know, if you know, here in
New Zealand, sometimes, you know, TV crew come or a
(15:50):
newspaper photographer or, you know, if it's a special event.
And so you do, you do sort of have to rethink your body image
a little bit or become possibly a bit more comfortable with
being in public in your talks. I know that's something that I
thought about. And so I liked how the book
covered that. I think that's a really
important thing that it covered especially for younger women.
(16:13):
I think as we get older, you know, I'm a lot older than you
shall know, but umm, you, you stop, stop caring about that.
You honestly do, you know, uh, but obviously in my 20s, you
know, how I looked in my swimming suit would have been
paramount and in my mind if, if there was any kind of photos
been taken. So I think especially for
(16:35):
younger women, it's good to readthat stuff and realize honestly,
you know, of course we want to protect people's privacy as
well. And, and we don't want stuff
going up, you know, online that people might be comfortable
with, but but for ourselves to get comfortable in our own
skins, the sea and swimming can really help with that.
(16:57):
And yeah, if you spend a lot of time in your tugs and all kinds
of situations, it just becomes second nature and you don't even
worry about it too much. Yeah, that's right.
And you, you learn to appreciateyour body, I think.
And just yeah. Yeah, and what it can do and,
and and the joy you know that your body as well as your mind
gets from from while swimming and and even from bashing out
(17:21):
your links in the pool. All right, shall we move on to
our next book? What's your second book?
Well, so my next book is fallingmore into the realm of
literature. It's quite poetic and it's
called Small Bodies of Water andit's by a New Zealand young New
(17:46):
Zealand author. And again, as we talked about
earlier, it's not a swimming book.
It's, it's a book about growing up in Malaysia and New Zealand
and England. She's moved around a lot because
her parents were diplomats and, or one of them.
And you know, she's, she's just grappling with all the things
(18:07):
that any young woman growing up is grappling with love and
travel and achieving things and career.
And but she's swimming all the time, either in swimming pools
in Shanghai or back in Malaysia at her at her grandparents Golf
Club or in Hampstead Heath and also here on the South Coast of
(18:34):
Wellington where she lived. She she, she lived most of her
childhood and out in Days Bay. And I just love her little
descriptions of of swimming in Wellington.
I might read you one. So she says here.
To swim in Wellington Harbour isto swim in the deep seam between
two tilted pieces of land that have been pulled apart over time
(18:58):
near Oriental Bay. The harbour carries debris from
a summer storm just passed, shattered driftwood, seaweed
blooms, plastic milk bottle caps, the occasional earlobe
jellyfish. So I just think that's really
sweet. And it goes on in that vein.
And yeah, I think it's just beautiful, poetic book.
(19:20):
It's it's not a novel. It's more sort of what they call
auto fiction, you know, stories about your own life.
And another, another author who who does the same thing and also
writes about the South Coast of Wellington in this way is Ingrid
Horrocks. And she wrote a book called
Where We Swim, which is also about her swimming adventures
(19:42):
and she's nice descriptions of swimming on the South Coast.
She started the book, she was going to do this swimming
adventure from Wellington to Auckland.
But life kind of got in the way,twins and twin children and
ageing parents and all the usualthings.
But she, she just kept swimming as she could all through through
that. And that's another book I really
(20:04):
love. So they're two of a kind about
swimming and life. That's awesome.
Yeah. And Speaking of New Zealand swim
books, the one I've put aside isalso a swim book from a New
Zealand writer called Annette Lease.
And the book is called Swim a Year of Swimming Outdoors in New
(20:27):
Zealand. And this, this is all sorts of
she covers a lot in this book. I don't know if you've read it
today. So basically, she came to the
end of 1 summer and realized shehadn't been for a swim at all.
And she felt a bit annoyed with herself.
Yeah. And so she resolved that she
(20:48):
would spend an entire year swimming every single day.
And she kept a journal. And so woven throughout the book
is her journal of her year of swimming.
And it's divided by the seasons.So no matter where she is and no
matter what what what else is happening, she gets in and she
makes a record of the swim. So she committed to that one
(21:09):
whole year, which is pretty amazing.
Like I know you and I both swim through the year, but probably
not every single day. Yeah.
So that that's a big commitment.And and then sort of alongside
that, she covers like a history of swimming in New Zealand.
And I really like how she includes Maori pre colonial
(21:31):
history as well. So Maori stories of, you know,
people achieving long swims or, you know, the, the history of
Maori people connecting physically but also spiritually
with the water, different bodiesof water, which I think is
really important. And then once Europeans arrive,
(21:51):
you know, swimming becomes quiteubiquitous and you've got
families swimming, you've got kids swimming, you've got sort
of the early Olympian training, you've got woman being
discouraged from swimming, you know, because it wasn't seen as
ladylike. And so, yeah, it's, I wouldn't
(22:12):
describe it as a coffee table book, but it's definitely a book
you can pick up and put down andjust read a few pages of.
And there are lots of pictures throughout.
And I'm always interested in thehistory side of things.
Yeah, I like how that's covered.I think if you're a swimmer in
New Zealand then you should definitely have a copy of this
book. Well, I'm definitely gonna get a
(22:34):
copy. I love that, yeah, Shona of, you
know, sending yourself those challenges like swim every day
of the year. I did it 1 October, that I was
going to swim every single day in October.
And even that was quite a commitment.
And so for her to do it, you know, for 12 months is pretty,
pretty amazing. So I, I definitely would love to
read that. Yeah.
(22:56):
You can borrow my car Bay with you.
Thank you. All right, What's next on your
list? What's next on my list?
Well, you know, there's no comparison between ocean
swimming and pool swimming. I mean, ocean swimming for me
Trump's at every time. But, you know, there's a lot to
(23:18):
be said for pool swimming as well, especially for people who
haven't access to the ocean. And so, you know, I think we
should also look at that and onebook which is all about swimming
pool culture, which I really love, is called The Swimmers,
and it came out in 2022 and it'sby a Japanese American writer
(23:42):
called Julie Otsuka. And it's a wonderful book.
So the first part of it is all about this small community
swimming pool where all these different people go and all
their stories. And then this mysterious crack
appears in the bottom of the swimming pool and starts to
spread. And I won't tell you the whole
story because I'll ruin it. But so there's all the drama of
(24:06):
that. And, you know, it ends quite
dramatically that side of it. But there's another whole theme
going on where one of the group of swimmers is, is actually sort
of in the midst of cognitive decline.
And, you know, she forgets whereher locker is and she puts her
tongs on back to front and all that above ground.
(24:28):
But once she gets in the pool, you know, she's a complete
natural and she swims her lengths very beautifully and
everybody admires her. And so it's it's a fantastic
book. And, you know, I had kind of
fallen out of love with pool swimming since the pandemic,
really. But rereading this book for the,
(24:50):
you know, in preparation for thepodcast, I was, Oh my God, I got
myself down to Freiburg and, andrediscovered the joys of, of
lame swimming and the whole poolscene and, yeah, renewed my swim
membership and oh, wow. So it's nice how books can take
you back to swimming as well as swimming.
(25:11):
Create books. So I totally recommend this
book. It's also, you know, covers
themes to do with the Japanese in in the States and what they
went through, you know, during and after the war in terms of
being sent to internment camps, etcetera.
So it's a really interesting social history of the Japanese
(25:34):
in America, a study of, you know, declining cognitive
decline, which a lot of us probably have dealing with,
with, you know, older relatives,etcetera.
But but the most exciting part from the point of view of this
podcast is the amazing first section.
It's a slim novel, but the firstsection about all the characters
(25:56):
at the swimming pool and this mysterious crack.
And so I totally recommend that as a as a swimming pool book.
That sounds awesome, I might have to borrow that one too.
Yeah, you can get it at the library and and you can also
listen to it as an audio book onthe Wellington City Library app.
So easily easily available. Cool, and I'll mention now I'll
(26:21):
link to all these books in the show notes as well so people can
find out more. Absolutely.
And what's your next book, Shawna?
So Speaking of pool books, well,not not specifically a pool
book, but it's sort of a guide book like you mentioned earlier
about improving your swim technique.
And so this is called The Swim Mastery Way, written by Tracy
(26:45):
Bellman, who's a swim coach in Australia, and it was just
published last year. So small disclaimer, I am
involved with Swim Master, I've been on some of their camps and
I do know Tracy, but I do still strongly recommend this book
because the swim mastery technique has really helped me
with my swimming. And also I interviewed one of
(27:08):
their coaches, Melissa Donaldson, who's an ultra
marathon swimmer in her 50s. And so she's in one of the
earlier episodes of this podcast.
So Tracy, who's the head coach, has been a swim coach for 30
years and obviously has learned a lot and seen a lot over that
time. And basically the swim mastery
(27:29):
technique is for freestyle. And they give you cues that sort
of put your body in the right position to help you avoid
injury. Like shoulder injuries are
really common for swimmers who are doing just that, repetitive
movement over and over of the freestyle.
RSI. Yes, exactly.
And so it breaks everything down.
(27:49):
There are lots of pictures in the book.
So you can sort of practice the the positions.
And it sort of explains the science behind swimming as well,
which I like because water is 800 times denser than air.
And obviously as humans, we're not used to being in water
necessarily. And so we sort of have all these
(28:10):
natural human impulses, which is, you know, like lifting our
heads to, you know, make sure weget enough oxygen and moving our
arms and legs around to sort of try and propel ourselves.
But it's not necessarily the best way to move through the
water. In fact, that often makes it a
lot harder. And we get a lot more tired by
by doing that. And the book also focuses, first
(28:33):
of all, on breathing, which is the most important thing because
if you're not breathing correctly in the water, it
doesn't matter how amazing your technique is or how fast you
are, like within a few minutes, you're going to be exhausted and
out of breath because you're notgetting enough oxygen.
Yeah. So that's really fundamental.
Yeah. So that's my little plug for the
(28:53):
the Swim Mastery book. But yeah, it has helped with my
technique. It's and it's made me faster,
but without trying to be faster,if that makes sense.
Yes, that does make sense. And you know, Sharon, I know
you're going through the swim mastery training yourself.
And I know there's a few of us in Wahini Y, which is our
(29:13):
WhatsApp group name, that are keen to be your Guinea pigs when
you want to start, you know, passing on your, your new
knowledge. So it's well done for, for
taking your swimming to such a, such a high level, you know,
from starting as, as a dipper with some of us, you've really,
(29:34):
you know, gone, gone the distance, which is amazingly,
which is amazingly inspirational.
And you know, everybody is not going to do all the things
you've done, but we love hearingabout them.
And, and so you're a great inspiration on many levels in
this swimming community in Wellington.
(29:55):
Now, Shona and this podcast, I just love listening to it.
It's, it's got so many differentaspects to it.
So keep up the good work. Oh.
Thank you, Shanae. That means a lot.
All right, I realize I have miscounted and I've actually
come up with a fourth book to talk about.
Oh for it. Because I just get so excited
(30:18):
about this topic, I'll just quickly mention it.
It's called Swimming to Antarctica by Lynn Cox.
Yeah. So she is an ultra marathon
swimmer from America. And as the title suggests, she
did swim and and tucked with her.
She was the first person to do an eye smile down there.
Yeah, so. We've done a lot of other world
(30:38):
first swims, so, you know, starting in the, I think in the
1980s. And she's just a phenomenal
person that she quietly sets herself these goals and she'll
swim a body of water that no oneelse has ever swum in.
And of course, people will say you're crazy.
You know, that can't be done. And then she just does it.
(31:00):
And so the book is sort of a bitof a memoir, just talking
through all these different swims and how she became an open
water swimmer. And I just sort of love the the
matter of factness of it, I suppose.
You know, she's not Tooting her own horn.
Yeah. She's just setting herself these
goals and those one swim she didbetween America and the Soviet
(31:26):
Union in the 80s. Yeah.
During the Cold War and across the Bering Strait and is
credited of with, you know, sortof helping the relationship
between the two countries. Like it was Reagan and Gorbachev
who both sort of publicly mentioned her swarm and it
seemed to kind of bring the two sides together, possibly helping
(31:48):
with the the thawing. Yeah.
I don't know. I wouldn't necessarily brought
about the end of the cult, right.
It definitely was some positive news.
And you know. Yeah.
Yeah. And, and then near the end of
the book, she talks about her swim in Antarctica and what that
(32:08):
was like. And so I'll just quickly read 1
paragraph from it. So this is sort of before her,
her first swim in Antarctica. I stuck my head outside again,
determined to maintain my calm. It was so cold.
They still weren't ready. The waiting was nearly the
hardest part. But the hardest part would be
(32:29):
jumping into the frigid water and making the swim.
I smiled. I thought back to what a friend
had told me. You're so ready for this, have
no doubts. He was right, I was ready.
I didn't doubt. Taking another deep breath, I
looked out again. Everything was set.
I started down the gangway, holding tight to the ice cold
railing with my right hand, hanging on to my goggles with my
(32:52):
left hand and watching my feet, making sure I placed each
solidly on each step. When I reached the bottom of the
stairs, I sat down on a platformand looked at the crew.
They were smiling reassuringly. They were as ready and as
apprehensive and excited as I was.
I smiled at them and then I retreated deep into my mind and
(33:13):
took one last moment to focus within myself.
I didn't want to remain there long.
The platform was so cold I felt like I was sitting on a giant
ice cube tray. My feet dangled inches above the
water. Wow.
Yeah, I have actually read that,that one.
It is an incredibly inspirational book.
(33:33):
Yeah. I mean, most of us are never
going to do these feats. But you know, sometimes if
you've just read a chapter of a book like that and you're
humming and hawing whether you should go out for a If I swim
here in the hail and snow winterWellington day, you think, Oh my
God, you know, that's nothing compared to what she did.
So outwit me, you know? So it's really good to read
(33:55):
books like that, even though most of us will never achieve
her high. Exactly.
Yeah. It doesn't make me think, oh, I
want to go and swim. And I smile.
In Antarctica, the way she writes is so sort of matter of
fact. You.
You sort of feel like you're there with her.
Yeah. She's describing the atmosphere
and how she's feeling and yeah, so you feel like you're
(34:17):
alongside her with on her big swims, which is pretty amazing
achievement. And do you know, is she still
doing epic swims? And I don't, I don't think she
is doing, I think she does more sort of public speaking these
days and she's written children's books.
But this is the I think this is the 50th anniversary of her Cook
Straight swim. OK.
(34:39):
Yeah, yeah. So that that was a big
achievement as well. Yeah, so she's sort of, you
know, similar to Diane Nyad in ways who more people know about
through the movie, but. Yeah, that's right.
Len Cox needs her own movie. That's what she.
Yeah, she certainly does these wonderful women swimmers and
(35:01):
yeah. So we we're actually doing
really well for time. We we were saying that we'd also
like to talk about some couple of songs and movies.
Sure. Well, you know, unfortunately I
think through copyright restrictions you can't play the
songs. But one song that I think should
(35:23):
be on every swimmers playlist isis called The Swimming Song by
Loudon Wainwright. And I'm not going to sing it
here now, but I could kind of, you know, say a few lines of it,
which are, you know, this summerI went swimming.
This summer I nearly drowned. But I kicked my legs and I, oh,
(35:47):
I thought I knew it off my heart.
Anyway, he moved his arms aroundand and moved his arms around
the summer. He swam in the ocean.
I swam in a swimming pool. Salt in my eyes, chlorine in my
eyes, salt in my wounds, chlorine in my eyes.
I'm a self-destructive fool. And so it goes on and it's it's
just joyful and funny and you know, obviously has that terror
(36:11):
thing. I nearly drowned and, you know,
getting salt in my but, you know, people have analyzed and
said, oh, it's all about his addiction, but it's about this.
But he just came back and said, hey, it's just about the joy of
swimming. And I often play it when I'm
driving over towards the South Coast for swim to just get me in
the mood. Love it.
(36:31):
Yeah, I love it too. There's lots.
Of cover versions, you know, Kate now, Mcgarrigle and various
other people. So yeah, definitely one for our
playlists if it's not already onthere.
Yep, and I will I'll link to that in the show notes as well
the Spotify link so people can go and have a listen if they.
Don't. But it is a swimming classic,
isn't it? Yeah.
(36:51):
Totally. And the song I chose is it's a
little bit more low key and poignant, but children of the
90s and old people might remember it.
It's R.E.M.'s night swimming.
So the song came out in the early 90s and from their album
Automatic for the People, which was their sort of huge hit
(37:12):
album. And it's it's quite a simple
song in terms of it's got piano,it's got Michael Stipes lyrics,
and it's got a sort of orchestral arrangement, which
was apparently done by Led Zeppelin's John Paul Jones.
Yeah. So it's not sort of this rousing
(37:32):
rock tune, but it's. Yeah, like I said, it's poignant
in it. It's sort of got this element of
nostalgia because someone's driving along and there's a
photograph on their windshield and it reminds them of a swim at
night that they had when they were young, naked in a lake.
And it's it's very poetic. So again, I'm not going to sing,
(37:57):
but some of the lyrics go night swimming, remembering that
night. September's coming soon.
I'm pining for the moon. And what if there were two side
by side in orbit around the fairest sun?
That bright, tight forever drum could not describe night
swimming. Oh wow.
Yeah. So it's really.
(38:18):
Very special, aren't they? Yeah, and it it's the way the
memory is described in the song.It's so vivid that you almost
feel like it's your own memory, and then you start remembering
well, for me, I start remembering special swims that I
had when I was younger, that feeling of freedom.
I think as adults, that's partlywhy we love swimming is because
(38:41):
you sort of recapture that playfulness and that feeling of
freedom. You know, it really, because in
middle age, you know, we're so burdened down with, you know,
careers and aging parents and children and this and that.
And at a certain point, you know, you often find women about
(39:02):
my age start getting heavily into swimming because they've
passed off a lot of those burdens.
Or while they have them, they'llsneak off and have a swim when
they can. But but to be able to totally
surrender to the joy of swimmingafter sort of some of those
burdens have been lifted and really makes you feel like a
child again, free. I don't have to rush back to
(39:23):
work or I don't have to do this,you know, so it is, it's such a
source of joy swimming and we'reso lucky to to have it as a part
of our lives. You know, I always think about
people who don't swim. Oh, they just don't know what
they're missing. But of course, each to their own
and it's not for everyone. That's right, yeah.
(39:46):
And we've each picked a film, I think.
Is that correct? Yeah, yeah.
So the, the film that I picked as the classic swimming film,
and it's a swimming pool pool film and it's based on a, it's
called The Swimmer and it's based on a short story by John
(40:08):
Cheever. And it's about this guy, Ned,
this man, you know, he's an advertising executive or
something in, in Connecticut. And he's at a pool party and he
gets the idea that he's going toswim his way home through all
the neighborhood pools and. And and this just seems like a
really fun idea and it starts off pretty fun and he meets, you
(40:30):
know, ex lovers and nudists and all sorts of people along the
way and has adventures and encounters with them.
But progressively it gets darkerand the season changes and he
gets older in the course of thisswim till he reaches his home.
And I won't disclose the the ending, but, you know, it ends
(40:53):
quite darkly. And, and I thought it was
interesting because, you know, most depictions of swimming
pools in movies are, you know, people lounging by the pool and,
and sun. And there's the odd, you know,
body found in the pool, of course, and murder mysteries.
But generally pools are depictedas places of fun.
(41:16):
And this, this, this turns it into something else.
And so I, I think the short story is brilliant.
I think the film is quite good. And but we're definitely
recommend the John Cheever shortstory film short story that the
film is based on. Yeah.
(41:36):
And I mentioned earlier sort of a now emails that we were
swapping. I I just read the short story
for the first time a couple of days ago after we were talking
about it, and I know that that short story was what inspired
Roger Deakin to do his waterlog journey swimming through
waterways in Britain. Yeah, which is amazing because,
(41:59):
you know, there's such differentkinds of journeys and but it's
just this again shows how reading and swimming into link.
And you know, we also, I also mentioned earlier that Roger
Deakin inspired like Ingrid Horrocks to do to plan her swim
from Wellington to Auckland through the the waterways.
And so there's all these, you know, pieces in literature and
(42:23):
popular culture influencing swimmers and swimmers,
journeying journeys, influencingbooks and poetry.
That's right. It's all connected.
And I love the idea of swimming or waterways as sort of mapping,
you know, like these plants as their own map or channel for a
journey. You know, often we think of maps
(42:46):
being very land based with, you know, routes following roads.
And so with the swimmer, he's following swimming pools to get
home. Like that's his journey home.
Yeah. For Roger Deakin it was, you
know, ponds and lidos and oceansand rivers.
It was all sorts of waterways. Yeah, yeah.
(43:06):
Yeah, but with the the swimming the swimmer story, it was a lot
darker than I expected. Yeah.
Yeah, I really loved it. It stayed with me a few days.
And yeah, again, I won't spoil the ending, but yeah, yeah.
So we're sort of reflection on life, isn't it?
Well, absolutely. And refreshing coming out of
(43:27):
Hollywood. Burt Lancaster is the main star
in the movie. And, you know, usually you're
expecting happy Hollywood's happy ending, but not, not in
this case. And so, yeah, it's worth a look,
even though it was made so long ago in 1965.
And people who are more sort of into film will probably, you
(43:47):
know, sort of notice all kinds of things with the
cinematography, etcetera. But I'm just really interested
in the story and would recommendit on that basis.
Yeah, good choice. And the the film I wanted to
talk about is a documentary. It's called Kim Swims and it
came out in 2017 and it's about a New Zealand woman called Kim
(44:12):
Chamberlain. The film's been described, I saw
online as the most inspirationalsports film since Rocky.
Wow, better watch that one. Interesting comparison.
So Kim was living in San Francisco.
She almost lost her leg in an accident.
And for her rehabilitation, she started swimming.
(44:35):
And she tried swimming in the sea versus the pool, discovered
she loved it, even though the, you know, the waters of San
Francisco, I think, are quite wild and chilly, but, you know,
invigorating for her. And so slowly her swims got
longer and longer. And then she ended up completing
the Ocean 7, which is sort of the ultimate, you know,
worldwide ultra marathon swims. And she set her sights on a swim
(45:02):
back in San Francisco to the Farollan Islands.
Or actually, I think it started in the Farollan Islands and then
ended at Golden Gate Bridge, which was a distance of 30
miles. And it's using our metric
system. That's almost 50 kilometers.
It's a big swim, but also it's in what's known as the red
triangle, which is like a great white shark.
(45:24):
Yes. Just to add to the challenge,
there was an Australian man who attempted the swim just a few
weeks before she was due to do it and he ended up being pulled
out of the water because a sharkwas circling him.
And then a call to out. So she, I'm sure she had that on
(45:45):
her mind when she. So yeah, the documentary follows
her, you know, preparation for it and the emotions behind it.
You know, there's determination and this, but, you know, she
seems more worried that she won't be allowed to go ahead
with it, if that makes sense. Then worry about the swim
itself. Yeah.
(46:05):
So she gets in the water, she gets off the boat at in the
middle of the night to start theswim.
And so again, it's sort of like the Lynn Cox book where you feel
like you're you're with her. You know, you're getting in and
you can almost feel the cold, dark water in this jockey area.
And yeah, so you're swimming with her overnight and then
(46:26):
through the next day. And, you know, spoiler alert,
she does complete the swim. So this you know, the
documentary has a happy ending, but.
Yeah. Particularly that it's a New
Zealand woman. She was the first woman I
believe to complete the swim andonly a handful of people have
done it. So yeah, highly recommend Kim
Swims if you. Oh, definitely, yeah.
(46:49):
And Shawna, you being a writer, have you any particular swimming
adventure or experience that youhave written about or would like
to write about? Oh, good question.
I would love to write a book about swimming at some point.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, but there's so many sort of
(47:12):
elements to swimming, it's, it'salmost hard to know where to
start. You know, it's the, the
technique, the open water, the people.
And so for me, the the podcast does a great sort of interim
step. I'm really enjoying hearing
everybody else's stories and sort of meeting all these
different people and being able to ask them questions about
(47:33):
their swimming. So yeah, I've done a bit of
writing about my swimming, but not too much yet.
But yeah, I would like to do more.
But I still, I sort of feel likeI'm, I'm still in the middle of
the the journey, so. Yes, that makes sense.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, we we haven't
(47:55):
talked in this episode of your podcast about poetry and you
know, there's a whole body of swimming poetry and swimming
haiku. And as you say, there's swimming
in mythology. Well, Maori mythology you
mentioned in particular is relevant to us here in our
tarot. But in in Irish mythology, we
(48:17):
have the selkies, the seal women, there's the whole mermaid
and thing, some creatures that are half human, half, half sea
creature. And I think it will be
fascinating to, to do a podcast on those two topics.
If you ever got the chance, you know one about swimming in
mythology, and one about, yes, sea creatures besides ourselves.
(48:42):
That's such a good idea. All right, Well, let's do it,
yeah. Let's do this thing, yeah?
Yeah, definitely. Cool.
All right, Shanae. Well, is there anything else you
want to talk about before we. Oh, I should ask you about your
urine swimming. You grew up in Ireland.
Yeah, I grew up in Ireland in a very urban environment, living
(49:07):
over at my parents shop in a very city, part of Dublin.
So but, but my, my parents were really intent on making sure we
all learned to swim. So we learned to swim in the
local pool and then we got a batch by the sea.
So we swam every summer and I loved to swim and I've swam all
(49:28):
my life really in pools on the sea, wherever I've been.
But it's only become really a passion since I turned 60 and
had this idea to to swim more regularly on the South Coast.
And so since then I've been looking out wherever I am, I
(49:48):
look out for swimming adventures.
For example, couple of years back I walked the most for
track. And one of the guides said to us
at the beginning, you know, we always have a swimming challenge
on this track. And he said the challenges that
you swim in a fjord, A Cairn, a river under a waterfall, I
(50:09):
forget what else. But anybody of water that we
encountered basically on the Milford track, they said anybody
who completes them all, we have a trophy waiting in the Milford
Lodge when when we finish. So I completed them all.
I have to say, swimming isn't the word here.
(50:29):
It was basically a dip in an icycold Cairn on the top of, you
know, the McKinnon Pass or somewhere.
But it was a great it was a great challenge and I really
enjoyed it. And lots of whiskey was drunk in
the in the Milford Lounge to celebrate, just one of the guys
and myself managing to complete the challenge.
(50:52):
So that that was really fun. And, you know, another example
how you can combine swimming ventures with something else you
do, like tramping or, you know, travelling or whatever.
Yeah. So you don't have to have a
bespoke swimming holiday. So I am actually looking forward
to going on one of those and might go in following your
(51:15):
footsteps and go on one in the ocean pools in Sydney with a
friend of mine who's keen to do it.
And but yeah, you can combine itwith other things you're doing,
and that's so much fun. But yeah, that's such a good
point, actually. But yeah, you can incorporate
swimming into any trip. And I think as soon as we do do
that, don't we? Yeah.
(51:36):
I find these days I that's a priority for me.
So if I'm going somewhere, it's,you know, I want to stay near a
body, a body of water. Yeah.
Yeah. You're always going a holiday
around it. You're not going to be going
into the Australian desert unless you can find a Oasis or
swim hole in there somewhere. Exactly.
(51:56):
And with the Sydney ocean pools,I got a book about them for
Christmas, so I can love you. Yeah, so many of them.
There are so many and what a great, what a great reason
listen to have a holiday rather than just going and, you know,
visiting the Art Museum and eating too much.
And you have this focus where you, it's kind of like I'm in
(52:19):
another group which is a knitting group.
And though nobody in that group seems awfully keen on swimming,
apart from Claudia who comes sometimes from our swimming
group, they, they are all, you know, ferociously enthusiastic
knitters and they go on knittingholidays to Estonia and Tasmania
to learn new techniques and, andit's the same kind of thing, you
(52:42):
know. So definitely a great reason to,
well, a great enhancement to your travels to, to have an
interest like that that you pursue.
Yeah. And if we're any good, and I'm
sure you're much better than me at this, is to record them, you
know, for future to inspire others and to write something
(53:03):
about them, a diary or a poem orwhatever, even if it's not great
literature that maybe later you can put put together into some
kind of form that that others could enjoy, you know?
Exactly. Yeah.
And even just to remind ourselves of the.
To read them back after when on my couch, I lie.
(53:25):
When we're when we're really tooancient to get ourselves off to
the pool of the sea, we can we can read back over our swimming
adventures. Our swim Diaries.
Yeah, Yes. Oh, thank you, Sinead.
I've enjoyed this chat so much. I knew I would.
I really enjoyed it too, could talk for hours about swimming
(53:45):
and books and. Yeah, well, have you back to
talk about Swim, Swim mythology?And swim poetry.
Yeah, and. Swim poetry.
I would love to do that. Thanks again, Shona.
Thank you and thank you for yourcompany in the water and for
founding our Dippers Group, which I know has meant a lot to
all of us. Oh, well, thank you for all the
(54:07):
inspiration that you provide to all of us also and the people
you introduce us to, for example, Brick Brainer and other
great swimmers and great swimming topics through your
podcast. So thanks again, Shona.
Thank you. Thanks for listening to this
episode of Swim Chats. Please remember to follow or
subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss an episode.
(54:30):
And if you enjoyed it, you can leave a five star rating and
review which helps other people find it too.
Enjoy the water and we'll see you next time.
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