Coach Barb Watson on growing up as a competitive swimmer, building a swim community, and making it fun

I had the pleasure of interviewing my swim coach Barbara (Barb) Watson, who has dedicated over 60 years to coaching in Wellington. It was recorded while we sat in her car at Freyberg Beach early on a Wednesday morning, watching the sunrise and drinking coffee.

In this episode you'll hear some of Barb's life story and much of it is an oral history of swimming in Wellington, from the early 1950s to today.

Barb was always drawn to the water and it ran in the family because her dad, Frank, was an open water swimming champion in the 1920s before he took on coaching and pool management. He worked at many Wellington pools including Karori Pool, Thordon Pool, Riddiford Baths in the Hutt, and Naenae Pool. He also swam in the open-air (and gender-segregated) Te Aro Baths before it was replaced by Freyberg Pool in 1963.

Barb was a strong freestyle and butterfly swimmer. She competed in national championships and won the prestigious Annette Kellerman Cup for open water swimming. She trained mainly at Naenae Pool, where her father was the manager, under the coach John Hamilton. She started coaching herself at the age of just 12 and has been coaching more or less ever since. As a solo mum in the 1970s she worked hard to make ends meet and today, as a great-grandmother, she still has a houseful of young people.

Barb's coaching philosophy is about enjoyment, accessibility, and community – she teaches us, and also values what we give to her. She has dedicated decades to teaching and mentoring swimmers of all ages and levels, from newcomers scared of the water to ultramarathoners. She coaches at Kilbirnie (WRAC), Cannons Creek, and Te Ngaengae pools, and at Freyberg Beach on Wednesday and Sunday mornings where she gives us a pep talk, looks after our valuables, and provides jet plane lollies after we get out.

Barb has been recognised for her services to the community but she doesn't like a fuss, so this is a rare interview. Our full conversation lasted for three hours and included people coming and going to have a swim and collect their gear, so this is the abridged version of 1h15. Grab a cuppa and enjoy.

Thanks Barb, for all that you do for us! <3

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Image: Barb handing out jet planes to swimmers at Freyberg Beach. Artwork by Fifi Colston to commemorate Barb's 75th birthday in 2023.

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Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Yoda and welcome to Swim Chats, a podcast about swimming.
I'm Shona Riddell, a writer, former journalist and swimmer
from Wellington, Altero and New Zealand.
For each episode, I talk to a different guest from our swim
community. Please hit the follow button so
you don't miss an episode and share the link with a friend or
two. And if you'd like to make a
contribution, you can go to patreon.com/swim Chats to find

(00:27):
out more. This swim chat is a particularly
special one for me because it's with my swim coach Bob Watson,
who has been coaching in Wellington for over 60 years.
So many people have swim with her over the years and these
days she coaches at Kilburnie, Tangongai and Cannons Creek

(00:48):
pools. On Wednesday and Sunday
mornings, you'll see her car at Freiburg Beach, where she looks
after our keys, gives us a pep talk, and then gives us 2 jet
plane lollies when we get out. She's there all year round.
For this interview, we sat in her car at Freiburg Beach early
on a Wednesday morning, watchingthe sunrise and drinking coffee.

(01:09):
We talked first about her childhood swimming in the 1950s
and 60s, including national championships, and her dad,
Frank, who worked at several Wellington pools and was a
strong sea swimmer. He was also a volunteer
lifeguard at Lowell Bay Beach. Bob started coaching other
swimmers at the age of just 12. So she has lots of stories and
in the last few decades has built a really important

(01:31):
community of pool and sea swimmers that means a lot to
people, including me. This is some of Bob's life story
and it's also a history of Wellington swimming from the
1950s to today. For example, we talk about to
Adult Baths, Fry, Big Pool, 99 Pool, Thorndown Pool and others
and lots of local names and places come up.

(01:51):
Those who know Barb will be aware that she doesn't like a
lot of fuss or to be the centre of attention and I think this
was her first interview so it was very special.
I hope you enjoy listening to itas much as we enjoyed recording
it. All right.
Look at the sun's already starting to.
Always know that 6:00 flights out.

(02:12):
Yeah. Such gorgeous.
And which way the winds fly. Yes, and it's blowing pretty
much every day. No, wind doesn't blow in Welly.
No, that's right. That's a myth.
We have gentle surfaces. Gentle, right?
You must know the weather so well by now.
Yeah, well, just look at the singer and you know, really.

(02:32):
Yeah, that's right. Well, I was going to suggest
that we start right from the beginning.
Were you born in Lower Heart? No, Born in Wellington.
Oh, you're born in Wellington, Yeah.
Saint Helens. Yeah, and was your dad a pool
manager even before you were born?
No, he was AI have to think on that one.

(02:53):
No, he worked at the Korori poolteaching swimming.
Yeah, and he was the caretaker at Korori Primary School.
Yeah, and we had the primary school house that was in Korori.
Yeah, and did he teach you this one well?
I think he must have done. Yeah.
Was that so early that you can'tremember learning to swim?

(03:13):
I know, but the story goes if I used to crawl in right and they
used to pull me out by my hair on the other side.
Wow, you're just drawn to the water.
Yeah, I must have given my mother that's terrible fright.
Yeah, I can see her now because I do it with the kids and the
grandchildren and things like that and I think we must have

(03:35):
put mum through hell. It's always like that when
you're older, you think more from your mum's perspective,
don't you? Once you become a parent
yourself, it's. Just totally different.
What were your parents names if you don't mind my asking?
Well, dad was known as Frank, yeah, and my mum was known as
Dill, but they weren't dead properly.
Yeah, we had Adele in my family,too.

(03:56):
Yeah, and I remember you saying that your dad was the manager of
Paul, but he also the Taro Barbs, right?
He used to swim at these. He didn't.
He didn't manage. Them but OK.
He spent a lot of time here at the Taro, but.
Right. And he also taught swimming at

(04:16):
Thornton Pool. Wow.
In those days it was separate. You taught men 01 day hen.
You taught women on the knees. You didn't have integrated
things in those days. Yeah, it's like the tiara bars
here. They were separate.
They had a men's side and a woman's side.

(04:38):
Yeah. And had your dad been a
competitive swimmer when he was growing up?
Is that way. Yeah, no, he was AI wouldn't say
a pool competitive swimmer, but he was an ocean competitive
swimmer. Oh wow, 1923 swim across
Auckland, Palmer and won, won the middle came first because

(04:58):
1923. Yeah, somewhere around Delhi,
Yeah. And that's in a time that not
that many people were doing openwater swimming, right compared
with Snell. Hell no.
But yeah, So that he was taken to the sea water.
Yeah. And of course, like a lot of
people, more people are going sea swimming because they can't
afford to use public force, right?

(05:21):
It's got to the stage where they've got to really think
about, you know, the cost of actually going for a swim.
And a lot of people just can't put that into their budget.
And I mean, I've noticed it withwith people that I deal with.
They come sea swimming, but theydon't or they don't no longer.

(05:42):
Or they might just come once every so often to have a pool
swim. But yeah, I just can't afford
it, which is a shame. But we've got a beautiful
facility out here. We don't.
Yeah, we're lucky, aren't we? Absolutely.
And it's getting less polluted. It's just beautiful.
Yeah. And so when did Frank start in
Nine Eye poll? Because I know he was there for

(06:04):
a while. We moved out the Hut in 1958 and
I had was built in 1958 I think and Dad worked at Rutherford
Baths that no longer exist. Of course he worked there and

(06:26):
then he got the job at 9 I. 9 I used to be open air, didn't it?
Yeah, because I was looking at some old photos.
Just fabulous. It was just, you know, and
that's what I miss about open air balls.
Maybe that's because why I like it out here.
Yeah, because it is. It's open air and it's just
lovely. You get all the sunlight and no

(06:47):
walls. Yeah, and the number of times I
get asked how can you go straight when you're swimming
backstroke? Well said.
Well, you don't look at the clouds, do you?
It's a whole different environment, isn't it?
Yeah. You just learned very quickly,
yeah. And do you remember sort of

(07:07):
starting your competitive swimming at 9 I pole?
Is that sort of where it began? No, it was actually I, I, we
belong to the Korori Swimming Club at the age of 5 and so we,
I don't remember it, but evidently we used to do
competitive swimming on club nights and things like that.
Even when you're 5. Yeah, Gus.

(07:28):
And just never stopped. Yeah.
So when we started out at 9, I, we moved into the house next
door to my, my pool and we'd go across for a swim.
And so I must be about 7 or 8, Ithink 7 and we'd go in for a

(07:49):
swim and of course we'd go down the deep end.
And Mr. Jackson, who was runningthe pool at that stage, he said,
yeah, come here, You're not goodenough to be in that, that
you've got to be able to do 400 meters.
Yeah, we can do 400 meters. And, well, you don't do 400
meters. You can't go in there.
And so we do our 400 meters in front of it.

(08:12):
All right. OK.
So every time we went over there, he had to do 400 meters
before we were allowed on the deep butt.
Right. And I think it was proving a
point to other kids that you hadto do this before you were
allowed in there. So it was his way of making sure
that the crowd did that was supposed to do and.
What strokes were you doing then?

(08:33):
Were you doing all the strokes or mainly freestyle I.
Preferred freestyle and butterfly.
Butterfly is a challenging 1. Yeah, well, well, they all.
Are but you know. No, butterfly is totally
different. And of course, it was only in
1948, I think, that butterfly became a stroke.

(08:58):
There's a breaststroke. You know, everything has to be
simultaneous and, you know, mirror image and, you know, your
head had to be above the water and all rest of it, and you had
to do the breaststroke kit. And what happened was that up to
1948, they were doing breaststroke, of course.

(09:19):
And then some smart people started lifting their arms up
and over and they were going much, much faster.
And breaststrokers and breaststrokers got really bitter
and twisted because these other people weren't doing the correct
thing. And so that's how butterfly was
first put in, and it was butterfly with a breaststroke
kick because the dolphin kick hadn't been invented then.

(09:43):
So we were, as a squad put to the beginning of doing dolphin
kicks and breaststroke and butterfly.
And of course, nowadays you can't do breaststroke,
butterfly. Yeah.
So that's how butterfly came about.
And apart from that, my coach and I would always have this
slight disagreement on two things, whether I did

(10:04):
breaststroke or whether I went for a run.
And I wouldn't do either. I didn't want to do either.
It was the only time that he andI have ever had in the fruits of
opinion. And so he'd say we'll do
butterfly then. Sorry, I did butterfly.
Right, and you enjoyed it. And who was your coach?
At this time, Jon Hamilton, yeah, yeah, he was my coach

(10:24):
right up until I retired. And were you the fastest in the
pool at this time or one of the fastest?
One of the fastest in our squad.We had one of the top New
Zealand squads, so yeah, we had a fair few people who were quite
good. Yeah, and were you all competing
against each other as well? Well, you swam and trained
against each other and and you competed at pool level.

(10:46):
Yeah. But yeah, it was just one of
those things that you did. I don't think we would have
travelled as a family or yeah, as a family.
We wouldn't have travelled as much in New Zealand if it hadn't
been for swimming. So you were competing
nationally, travelling around to.
We did nationally, we travelled around, but I never did any

(11:07):
international Swans. I wasn't quite good enough.
Nationally still pretty good though better than most people.
Put it this way, I was above average, but never part of the
1% that has that killer instinct.
Yeah. I always think of you when I'm
doing a a big swim and I hear your voice saying, China,
remember, this is supposed to befun.
Well, it is, you know, and if you don't make it fun, then it

(11:31):
becomes such a burden that you just, you know, you've got to
think this and you've got to think that.
And you know, all the things that I've told you, well, forget
them all. Just enjoy.
Yeah, just be in the moment. Absolutely.
So were you getting up early every morning, getting to the
pool, training, going to school,getting back in the pool?

(11:52):
Sometimes at lunchtime we'd havecome back from school to school
at lunchtime and then after school, Yeah.
And then when I started work, I just did the same thing morning
and night. I didn't do the the lunchtime
one. I remember you telling me when
Freiburg pool first opened, which was what, in the 60s?

(12:14):
64 I think. 64 and how it was a different length than you were
used to and you hurt your fingers.
A poor little pinky is just never going to be the same.
Used to dislocate it every time I tried to do a turn.
Yeah, but I know they've still got them little foot baths as

(12:35):
you walk out of the changing room.
This cold, slimy foot bath that you're supposed to wash your
feet in. Yeah, I'll tell you what, we did
everything that we could possibly do to avoid.
Yeah, it just didn't like that feeling on the butter of your
feet. Everybody else washing their
feet in the pool, dirty water. Yeah.

(12:56):
You know, just this. It's only how those little
details stay with you. Just revolting.
And of course it was cold and I don't know whether it ever got
cleaned out or anything, but I mean, we were only kids, so we
didn't know much much about those sorts of things.
Yeah, I remember you saying there was a tree outside nine
eye pole that's still there thatyou fell out of.

(13:18):
Yeah, and broke your arm, yeah. Yeah, so you've got a lot of
memories around that pole. Oh, yeah.
And every time I go out there, another one comes up.
Childhood at Nine Eye was reallygreat.
Yeah. I mean, we just, yeah, we had a
lot of fun. And of course the kids would

(13:38):
come over from Squad in the mornings and have breakfast with
us on their way to school and things like that.
And that'll be around there cooking up their meals, their
bacon and eggs and so forth and so on.
So yeah, was. Your dad managed to that pool
for quite a long time. 1970 yeah, he finished in 1970 he.

(14:03):
Finished. Yeah, yeah.
No, he died there, so. Yeah.
But you know, it's still, it's still a lovely pool now.
Yeah. When they put the roof over, it
just lost its atmosphere and everything.
But everybody thought that it was wonderful having a roof over
and you know, I have two weeks zone and you've got to move on.

(14:24):
Yes, some some people want to beprotected from the weather and
but then yeah, you lose the. And having a pool that's
covered, you can use it all yearround.
Having open air pools, yeah, like we have summer pool.
Yeah, like Thornden. Yeah.
And yet if they open Thornden, you would have people there all
through the air. Yeah, I remember you saying it

(14:46):
was open one winter. Yeah, when Bill Bernie closed
for their major, major maintenance.
Yeah, locked down. And then we were getting over
there. You know, it snowed one year.
It was just fabulous, beautiful,just lying there and rain
pouring down and everybody having a wonderful time.
And it was good because people couldn't stop at the end and

(15:06):
have a chat. Right, they had.
To keep going, you're a subject cold.
Right. That's good incentive, isn't it?
Absolutely. And it's the kind of thing that
creates memories for a lifetime and swinging.
I mean, you, you talk to Britainand people like that, you know,
and they just go on about how wonderful.
Yeah, I've heard Brian talking about it.
Super, you know, just a Super Bowl.

(15:28):
And were you an open water swimmer as well?
Yeah, I did open water with as part of a competitor squad.
I think I did 3 or 4 as as the national, as national swimming
champs. It was always part of the
national champs. So you had an open water one and
then the rest of the pool sessions were done or they were

(15:48):
done on a pool, of course, yeah.But yeah, our first one was
Dunedin. Freshwater, they're down there.
And Lake Wahola and I had never swum in a lake.
I don't know quite how old I was.
Not very old. I don't think you'd go out and
you'd have to go through the weed, the water weed, which of

(16:11):
course I'd never had any experience of doing.
So you went out as far as you could and then you had your,
it's A5 case for almost 3, threeKS, 3 miles, the three miles
one. And you just, you know, sort of
go on a triangle. And it was all right and two
sides of the triangle, but the inside, that was all through the
weed. You could just pull yourself
long. It's horrible.

(16:32):
It doesn't sound like much fun. But that year I won the Annek
Kalaman Cup. Yes.
And when I got home and said to dad I won the Annek Kalaman Cup,
he said yeah, I did too. Really.
So his name is on the cup and myname's on the cup.
I love that. That's really special.

(16:52):
It is, but they don't compete for that anymore.
I don't know where the cup is oranything.
Mine was the last one that they they competed for.
So yeah, it was fabulous that Dad and I had the same.
We won the same. Cup yeah, stayed in the family
and now you're coaching like your dad did too and 9 I four
yeah yeah, carrying on the family tradition.
Well, yeah, something like that,yeah.

(17:14):
There's nobody else that's goingto do it.
Yeah. My life are basically non
swimmers but they can swim but. You never know, they might take
it up later in life like I did. Well, yeah, who knows?
They just have to get over theirteenagehoods.
Yeah, just that's like everything else.
They've just got to go with the flow and do what they want to

(17:34):
do. Exactly, Yeah.
There's no sense in trying to make any of your kids do.
No, the more you apply pressure,the less they'll want to do it
right. The more they put their toes in
and say I'm not doing it. Yeah, that sounds familiar.
Well, I mean, my lovely daughter, she did every sport
that you could possibly think ofand could have done extremely
well in any sport. She had that natural talent.

(17:56):
She's still got natural talent. Once there was the expectation
that you might have to train. I don't want to do that anymore.
The fun out of it? Yep.
No, don't want to do that. Yeah.
There's a lot of hard work that goes into it.
Well, she taught me when she gotinto 50.
She's now discovered what she wanted to do when she grew up.

(18:18):
Yeah. Well, that's good.
Yeah, that's the main. Thing and I mean she's done a
lot of things in her life, but what she's achieved and how
she's achieved it is just fantastic and she's doing what
she loves so. Yeah.
Is that's what you want? Perfect.
Yeah, exactly like you say, you have to enjoy it.
Yeah, you have to want to do it.Yeah.
When you were doing your freestyle, sorry, your open

(18:40):
water swimming, what sort of distances were you doing?
Was it long distance or more speed?
Both. Yeah, open water swimming,
depending on the conditions. Yeah.
You either loved it or hated it.And yeah, he just, he just did
it. The thing is that we were not
because we were in the Hut Valley, we didn't have a car and

(19:02):
we couldn't go to the beach as such.
And to fly lifeguard stuff, you know, like Dad would have liked
us to because he was part of theLow Bay Surf Club.
And he every summer he would go on Wednesdays, which was his day
off at the pool and keep watching the beach.

(19:27):
So he'd have to go in by train and bus and all the rest of it.
And we couldn't do that. So coach said you've got do one
or two things, put something back into what you've achieved.
And so a lot of the guys went tosurf and a lot of us went into
teaching swimming. Like Dougal for instance, he was
a surf fella, but then he went into teaching swimming.

(19:49):
So yeah, you just made the choice of put something back.
Yeah, I remember you telling me you started teaching quite
young. Yeah, at 12, yeah.
At 12, I didn't realize it was that young.
Oh, my goodness. Yeah.
Where were you? Where were you teaching then?
We're teaching at Boys and GirlsInstitute.
Well, it was Boys Institute. Then they changed it to Boys and
Girls Institute. Yeah, inclusive goodness.

(20:12):
Girls were allowed in there. I think, yeah.
So we used to have to get changed on the dungeon down the
bottom, green slime down the wall.
Lovely conditions. Absolutely super.
But it was all right once she got up.
It's nice having the sea temperature up on the wall as
well. Yeah, notice people like to take
photos of it. Yeah.

(20:33):
So when I looked at it this morning it was 13.4 so.
It's very respectable, warmer than it was.
Oh, absolutely. Going up.
It's going up. It's going up.
Did you have a system for dealing with cold water when you
were a swimmer? Yeah, we had this stuff that we

(20:54):
used to put on. Yeah.
But nowadays people don't use it, no.
Was that sort of a sort of grease?
Yeah, it was like it was like a grease that the coach used to
make up I. Was going to ask in the recent
60s were you wearing goggles? Because I know it wasn't always
they. Weren't invented.
They weren't. Really.

(21:14):
No, the first time I ever saw goggles worn was when the guy
swam cook straight for the firsttime and when he got to the end
he had goggles. He's got big, huge goggles and
it was the first time I ever sawgoggles.
We never had goggles when we swam.
Right, ever. So did you.
And there's chlorine in the pool, right?
So did your eyes hurt? Having an outdoor pool, chlorine

(21:38):
dissipates. OK.
So it's quite good because the sun draws it off six days a
week. You could swim at 9 and it was
just beautiful. One day a week on a Wednesday,
which was Dad's day off, it was pretty bad on your eyes because
in those days when they did the water test, you had a bunch of

(21:59):
tubes that showed you different blue colours, right?
And so you put get your water and you put a few drops of
something or other on it and it comes out being the colour and
you have to match it to those. And then you know how much
chlorine and stuff to put on thewater.
But of course you know, and I know that you see everybody sees
a colour differently. So what Dad could see and what

(22:22):
the guy would come and look after the pool on Wednesdays
could see were two different things.
And so he would adjust the chlorine level, which was, you
know, to what he thought he could see.
And yeah, so. So when Dad came home from the
Wild Bay, you know you need to get over there, Dad, and change

(22:42):
it. That's not quite right.
Throw a hand snake in the back door and just adjust it.
So when we came to swim in the following morning, it was it had
come right? Yeah, but no, we didn't have hat
or goggles and we certainly weren't going to wear hats like
Mum used to wear with those strap underneath and the.

(23:06):
Yeah. The flowers all that no way you.
Didn't want to wear a decorativefancy hat?
There was no way that we were going to do anything like that.
So you weren't weren't wearing a.
Cafe, though, would your head get cold?
No, no. No, no.
Well. You don't get.
Cold out there? No, Never.

(23:26):
Water is water. It doesn't matter whether it's
hot or cold or in between. It's still just water.
It's what you may call it, yeah.And you know when the guys go.
Swimming at 9° out there, it's still just water.
I was talking. To Dan Abel, who's on the South
Island, you know who he is? And he said water is wet.

(23:48):
Just think of it as wet, you know?
Think about the cold. It's just wet.
It's wet, yeah. Well, I mean, that's how Brett
got through Water is water and. That's how come he can.
Train at Cannons Creek when the water is 2830° and then he can
come and swim out here at 9° andstill come out oh, a bit cold on

(24:10):
the feet today, right just. On the feet, nowhere else, just.
On the feet, that's amazing. Isn't it?
Yeah, I don't know what. Water temperature that we swim
in, I have no idea, but it was definitely different, right?
Do you think people are a bit? Obsessed now with measuring
everything? I think so, yeah.

(24:31):
Overthinking it, yeah. Yeah, you got to have.
A. Look and see what the
temperature is. Well, does it make any
difference? And then you know.
Some people have got temperatures on their watches
and things like that. Does it make any difference?
And then they argue the point with the poor old Graham here
that you haven't got the right temperature there.

(24:53):
And do you know, does it matter?Does it matter how far you
travelled? Just is what it is.
Yeah. So you.
You started coach teaching when you were 12.
Have you been coaching this whole time?
Was there a point where you stopped and did something else?
Or? I did.
I did. I did get a job coaching the
job. I didn't get a.
Job so calling. And yeah, I.

(25:15):
Remember, I must have worked here for about about three years
as a Finnish artist, commercial artist, and I did the Finnish
work on before it went printing.All right.
Did you enjoy that? Yeah.
But I'd hate to work in an. Office now and I think that I
that was one of the things that influenced me that I didn't
really want to stay cooped up inan office yeah, you like being

(25:38):
in. The open air.
What I like about coaching is that everybody's different.
Everybody's doing it for a different reason.
Yes, exactly. Some are doing just for.
Fitness, some are doing it for mental health.
Some people are just doing it just because they're
competitive. But oh, no, you don't have.
Adults aren't competitive. I forgot to say.

(25:58):
Yeah, that's right. That's what.
You've been told, right? That's why you can't get.
Pool space at Cooney Pool because adults aren't
competitive. Yeah, it's ridiculous.
And they don't swim it. English school holidays sets for
children. Yes, we definitely know some.
Competitive adults, don't we? Not naming any names.
But I mean, you know, and then you've got.

(26:19):
Toy athletes, you've got long for long distance competitors
and things like that, and you just deal with whoever's.
Yeah, just whoever wants to swim.
Yeah, that's right. Dougal and I used to swim
together. Oh, did you?
You went back in the dark days. In the dark days.

(26:41):
Yeah, well, in the light. Days yeah, yeah.
So he was a. Competitive swimmer, too.
Yeah, he was a competitive. Swimmer.
He used to swim with my brother yeah, he always used to meet
Ellen on the short, short distance ones, but on the longer
distance ones, yeah, Ellen wouldalways get him yeah, yeah.
So your. Brother was competitive so God
this is a real family thing. Did your mum like swimming too

(27:03):
or is she more sideline supporter?
My mother learned to swim. At Kandalapul, those were in the
days when there was a concrete wall put across the river that
comes down from Mount Karka, andit had grills on it, and water
flowed through to this concrete,which is still there, and then

(27:28):
it would flow out the other end.No heating?
No nothing. Yeah, but fresh.
Water, but fresh water. And she learned to swim there,
but of course now it's, it's chlorinated and all that sort of
stuff. It's proper water now.
Yeah. He's just swimming there.
When? I was a kid, yeah.
Health and. Safety.
It's so, yeah. So she led to swim there and I
never remember seeing her. I remember seeing her once swim

(27:51):
when she came out when I was working at Tower Pool and she
said, oh, I think I'll go for a swim with gum.
Mum stood on the side and she dived in and swam across the
other side and I stood there andthought Mummy can swim and that
was the first time I'd ever seenher swim.
Yeah, I think it was the last time actually too Right.
So she wasn't. Really wasn't a big fan of it,

(28:11):
but she could. She could do, and she could do
well. She swam beautiful swimming,
just beautiful. But see her dive in and swim
across the pool. It was just, yeah, sometimes you
don't. Realise what your parents can
do, right? They're just your parents.
Yeah, Yeah, they, they don't do.Anything that you do so.
Yeah, so, Mum. Was always there in the

(28:32):
background, making sure that we have a fan and she worked, Dad
worked. Did you prefer open water to the
pool as a swimmer or did you like both?
I don't know whether I had a choice or you just did it right.
Did what? You just swam where you were.
And. Coach told you this is what
you're doing and this is what you're doing.
Yeah. I mean, there are one or two

(28:53):
open water swims that I wouldn'tdo.
One was swimming. From carpet tea, yeah.
Is that because of the? Currents and no.
Seasick, Right. OK.
And ever since I was little, if I was in a boat, yeah.
No, not my. Idea of fun.
Yeah. And I just didn't go for any of

(29:14):
those swims that were where you had to travel out on the boat.
Right. OK.
But you're all right in the water.
Yeah. So even in top where you sort of
being lifted around and stop andtalk like.
Half of them do when they get tothe the boil, whatever.
Yeah. No, no, no.
Right. They keep your head.
Down. Yeah, you got to keep swimming.

(29:34):
Don't stop. I learned it very early on.
Was there a? Time that you stopped swimming
or did it just sort of taper off?
I still carried on swimming until I went overseas.
Did you move overseas for a while?
I saved up like immediately my. Pay, which was about 10 lbs on

(29:55):
those days. And I paid, board, paid, saved
up, tripped on the ship to SouthAfrica.
I don't know how I did it, I wouldn't be able to do it now,
but 10 lbs was an awful lot of money on those days in South
Africa. Yeah, I went to South.
Africa Why? Why there in?

(30:16):
Particular did you know people there or is that something you
just wanted to go well I. Was engaged before I went over
there and my fiancee's brother was in South Africa and so he
wanted. Him to be.
His best man. And so he decided, yes, well,
we'll get married in South Africa.
So by the time I got to South Africa, the dear brother was

(30:40):
back here. And so it was just John and I in
South Africa. So we got married and there's a
great big cathedral. Yeah.
Do you I? Think there were. 35 guests.
I don't know where John managed to get them from, but there were
35 guests. How old were you when you?
Got married 20. One, yeah.

(31:01):
Which sounds very young now. Doesn't it?
I know in those days it was morecommon to marry younger.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I went over by boat.
That's a long time SO. That would have been hard for
you by the time you got. To Australia it wasn't too bad
because the ship went to Sydney and then to Perth and then
onward. Yeah, got to Durban.
So it was 3 weeks and board fit.That's a long time.

(31:25):
Was your. Husband a swimmer too.
Did you meet at the pool? He wasn't a swimmer.
But his sister and I swam together, all right?
Yeah, we were competitive swimmers, but not competitive as
in my as in my family. How long were you in South?
Africa for was it 6 years? Oh, a long time when I got
there. What am I going to do?

(31:48):
So I sort. Of hovered around swimming pools
until I got a job as a somethingteacher over there was a little
private pool in Johannesburg andthen of course John would get
transferred. About.
Every year and a half. And so we'd find another pool to
teach it. What line of work was he in?

(32:09):
He worked for Dulux Paints and of course mines need paints and
so all the different mines need different paints for different
reasons and so you become quite sought after going around.

(32:30):
I mean, we travelled an awful lot of mileage Southern Africa
that probably a lot of South Africans might not have done.
When Kim was born. She was born over there.
We came back in 1974. Yeah, 1974.
We came back just a little fellathen, and then we did you.
Carry on coaching after that. Yeah, same pools.

(32:51):
Yeah, I got a. Job at Tower Pool, worked there
for quite some time. Did you prefer teaching?
Kids or adults? I like teaching preschoolers and
adults. Preschoolers, you know, you can
have fun and adults you can havefun.
You know it's the same thing. It's just.
You. Know you just, they're out there

(33:13):
enjoying themselves and so you've got to make it fun.
But with little people. You've got to make up a program
that suits them and their imaginations and adults.
You've got to teach them becausethey want to be taught, but they

(33:33):
want to know why. And they'll ask you why.
Whereas kids don't ask you why. Well, until they get to be,
yeah. Old enough to ask.
Why, Yeah. Yeah, I like the little ones in
there. Any.
Adults I can only imagine. All the characters you must have
met over the last few years, fewdecades, Just a few.

(33:58):
How do you manage the? Stroppy ones?
Well, when it comes to sport swimming.
They come along and they either fall into place or they fall
out. And you know, you can try as
much as you like, but sometimes it just doesn't move.
And then they move on. And now when I say, you know,
people want to join the squad, for instance, I say to them, OK,

(34:19):
So what? You've got alternatives.
These are competitive swimmers at Harbor Capital Masters and
then you've got us who are non competitive, generally ocean
water swimmers. And you can choose, you can come
and give it a try here. You can go and try it Masters
and you can see which one you want and then we'll go forward
from there. And so I usually give them all

(34:40):
two or three tries and then theyeither stay or they disappear
one or the other. And that's the way I'd much
rather have it than, you know, hammer them with things that
they don't want to be doing. When did you start bringing
people here? Friday night.
And everybody decided in the middle of summer we should start
sea swimming. So I'm OK.

(35:01):
So we made Friday night because that was the end of the week.
And everybody was out there, youknow, been able to let their
hair down. And I said to him, my wife,
we'll do sea swimming. But the day that nobody turns up
is the day we don't do any sea swimming because I'm not mucking
around doing this just for no reason.
And it's never stopped. But we stopped doing Friday

(35:23):
night and moved to Sunday because Sunday morning or Friday
night you couldn't get a park ifyou tried.
You know, every Tottenham Dick and Harry was here and we
basically, I needed it in the summertime and then we changed
it. It slowly changed or just do it
till midwinter and you know, actually just and it just
progressed. Now we just don't stop.

(35:43):
But it's just like. Hello, we just if Friday.
Night wasn't working and there were one or two who would have
drinkies at work and then expected they could come out
here and swim. That's not a good idea.
That was that was one of the no no's for me.
You don't drink and swim. And so we would have this
ongoing discussion. And so I decided right, we're

(36:06):
not going to do Saturday. We'll do Sunday mornings and
Sunday mornings we're much, muchbetter One.
There's plenty of parks usually and.
A lot of people just look. Forward to Sunday morning
because it's their day, yeah. That's right.
It's a quieter day. And how long has it been?
Has it been decades that you've been doing that?
And I know people like Colin have been swimming with you for

(36:30):
30 years or something. Well, that's right, you know.
He he started as far as me when Kilburni opened, that's when I
was I. Remember, I was about 16 when
they opened. So what's that 30?
3:30. Three, I think 33 years.
Wow. Did you introduce?
The jet plane Blullies. Because that's a real sort of

(36:50):
one of your trademarks, I think.Yeah.
What? It is.
Is that virtually? Well, probably a year or so and
it was close to Easter and I gotthe and I thought, look, if
can't get, I'm not doing Easter eggs.
So that was when we had the chocolate fish.
And then as the winter came on and having a couple of jet
planes helps fit the blood sugarlevel up and it starts warming.

(37:14):
And that's, you know, and it's one of those things for
hypothermia too, is some jet planes.
So it's not just take the salt out, not just for that reason.
No, no, no, but. If you go into too too many
details. Right.
But sometimes you just have. To, and I mean at the pool even,
and there'll be people who've come and worked all day and

(37:37):
they'll do, you know, half a dozen links.
And so I've just got to get out.I'll say hang on one minute.
I'll go and get a couple of jet planes.
And it's usually just that sugarburst that they need that they
hadn't stopped to get. They hadn't stopped.
Probably not eaten properly all through the day.
Low blood sugar, I have to say, after, you know, 2 1/2 K, swim

(38:01):
around the lighthouse. They do taste really good.
You feel like you've earned them.
That's it. Yeah.
So you're here, here every Wednesday morning, 6:00 AM, all
year round. You're at Cannon's Creek.
You're at 10-9 Ipol. You're at Kilburnia Aquatic
Center. Where have I missed?
So I think that's a bit. Of it, yeah, that's a busy.
Week. Yeah, well, you're here Sunday

(38:23):
mornings as well. Do you have a day off in?
Theory Mondays and Fridays, yeah, but in practice, well,
that's the day when you do shop,right?
So that's not. Really.
A day off. Well, it's got to the stage now
where I'm finding it quite difficult.
So Fridays in particular, my grandson, who I've talked to

(38:44):
swim, not swim. Drive, yeah.
And he's quite happy to. Drive now and he's quite happy
to go to the supermarket with me, so yeah, that's good.
If I do a. Recreational swim these days or
are you completely haven't been in the pool for.
Ages, yeah. I find it just difficult
getting. I mean, some days I find it

(39:05):
really difficult to put my shoeson, for instance.
Do you miss it? Yeah, yeah, sometimes I think.
About the bass that we've got inthe backyard that I could fill
it with hot water and just lie there and watch the stars, but
unfortunately it's full of pumpkins at the moment.
Pumpkins is this for? Halloween or.
The pumpkin harvest got put in the bath, I say.

(39:25):
Of course it did. Of course, actually, you put it
that's what bars are for, pumpkins.
Yeah. So, you know, you just.
Go and get a Pumpkin I. Was thinking about.
When I first. Met you I.
Think it was about 3 years ago started swimming with you and it
was because I'd started getting in the sea over on the peninsula

(39:49):
which is where I live and I met Fifi and Fifi told me about your
group and the Kilburney swims ona Wednesday night and I remember
messaging you and saying. You know can.
I come along. And you said, yeah, you know,
come and give it a try. So I did.
And I, I remember I swam about one lap and I was so out of

(40:11):
breath. And I thought like, this is too
hard, I can't do this. And I remember you saying to me,
you know, you're breathing everythree, tried breathing every
two. And I did.
And it was amazing. And suddenly I could do, you
know, at least 5 laps, which wasfive times as much as I could do
before. And that's what irritates me
about the Learn to Swim program,the commercial into some

(40:33):
programs where they're so obsessed with teaching everybody
to do 1 breath every 3. And when you first start
swimming, it's like when you first start singing.
You've got to build up your lungfitness.
And you can't. Build up your lung fitness if
all of a sudden you're having tohold your breath or control your

(40:54):
breath for far longer than you need to until you can build up
that lung fitness because they can't do bilateral breathing.
Whereas the way I teach it and have always taught it, you look
at the window to take a breath and when you come back you look
at the window to take a breath. No left or right.

(41:16):
Because you'll be amazed at the number of adults who have still
got to look at their hands to see.
And so indeed you've got that breathing one breath every two
and then you can do one breath every three once you've built up
that lung fitness. And that is the thing, that is
the key. And Australian swimming has just

(41:38):
changed and brought that in, whereas New Zealand hasn't
bothered to change. Also a lot of adults.
Don't know that they're supposedto be exhaling underwater,
right. I mean, I didn't know that.
I had to learn that and say you're holding your breath and.
Then you're trying to give yourself time to breathe out and
breathe in, and when you breatheout and then you breathe in, you

(41:58):
were under the water and you suck it in and you're done.
No, I didn't like that. Yeah, you're slowly.
Running out of oxygen, which doesn't either.
That or you're breathing. In on top of a breast and on top
of a breast and on top of the breath until the lungs are full
of guns. You're running out of puff.
Still got to breathe in. And so the air goes into the
stomach and that's how a lot of people come out with the burps

(42:21):
because they're not exhaling hard enough.
So I always say breathe out and listen to the bubbles.
And if you can't hear the bubbles, you're not breathing
out hard enough. And then the next.
Step for me after the pool was, of course, coming here to the
beach on a Sunday morning. And it's a whole new world,
isn't it? And, you know, seeing everyone

(42:41):
swim off and thinking, oh, you know, I don't know if I can do
this. Never been out of my depth
before in the sea. And then you have someone like
Bran who's just so good with thenew people, really sticks with
them. And he said, you know, we'll
just go as far as you want. And you always say, you know,
only go as far as you feel comfortable.
Yeah. And then slowly you go from
swimming out to the raft, which is 50 meters to, you know, the

(43:02):
first boy, which is 200. And then before you know it,
you're at the lighthouse. That's right, yeah.
Wow, I'm at the lighthouse so itfeels like such a.
Milestone. I mean, we were taught as.
Kids breathe, swim and always swim along the beach.
We were never allowed to swim out.
When we went swimming at La Bay with Dad, Yep, he would get
really quite irate if we went out.

(43:24):
We had to swim along and we wereonly allowed to swim from the
clubhouse at La Bay to Maranui and back and that was all we we
were allowed to do. That makes sense, So.
You could keep an eye on. Us.
But you swim along until you know that you can swim out.
Yeah, and low way is a. Surf beach too, so you would
have had some good practice swimming in the chop.

(43:46):
And of course, it has the big. Dips in it, too.
I don't know if you've walked out.
I don't know whether it still does.
Yeah, I haven't been. It doesn't actually stay flat.
You know, the drop off, you get a drop off and then you take 3
or 4 steps and then you've got you're flat again.
So that could be why we always had to swim along, not out,
right. But it was always a safety
thing. And that's what I'd do here.

(44:07):
It's a good place to learn. To water sauna for a big beach.
I mean, you have a look at all. The other beaches that, you
know, supposedly are supposed tobe for people.
Oh, all abilities. So there's no parking at any of
the changing sheds at Belena Bayor hi Tai Tai Beach.
Now how do people with disabilities use the facilities?

(44:29):
Yeah, right. How do?
They change. How do they get in the water or
where do you park? So if you want to go to Friburn,
to Hi Tai Tai Beach, there is one disabled park at the far
end, no changing facilities. So you've got to get out of your
car and you've got to go 100 meters, 200 meters maybe to the

(44:51):
changing rooms. Then you've got to come back and
put your stuff in your car. Yeah, then you have your swim.
Then you've got the lumber out. Yeah, there's a lot to think
about. It's not just getting in the
water, is it? It's everything around that, See
and Berlina. Bay, they took out parking on
Berlina Bay for a long time and so, yes, you can park down on

(45:12):
that beach, but there's no changing facilities, there's no
toilets. Yeah, whereas here.
We've got a bit of everything you want, yeah.
And got the coffee for afterwards, which is, you know,
they have your. Reward and you're.
Scone and you're what would we do?
What would we do with that, Graham?
Yeah. And you?
What would you do without us? Yeah, that's right.
That's a. Symbiotic relationship.

(45:34):
Yeah. Yeah.
Mutual benefit. Yeah.
I have to say, I'm going to get a bit emotional saying this
probably. But you know, you've, it's not
just a group of swimmers that you've created a community, you
know, people. It's like family.
You get to know people so well and you form friendships.
Absolutely. Yep.

(45:54):
It's a lifeline for people you know, and that's the whole.
Idea it does. It's a mental health thing yeah.
And I. Just I.
Mean, if I didn't have this, I don't know where I'd be because
it is my mental health too. The reason why I do this is
because I love it. I love watching people achieve
and some people set goals too big and so you've got to just

(46:18):
dampen them down just a little bit, just for a little while and
then reset. And so you've.
Got to understand each and everyperson who comes swimming and
the reason why they come swimming.
And I can walk in and I can see a bunch of you sitting there
waiting for your swim. And I can virtually read.

(46:39):
But what people are thinking? And how they're thinking and if
I have this program that I've arranged and I think no, we're
not going to do that today just because I know that somebody is
not going to be able to manage or it's.
Going to be too. Much for them or, I don't know,

(46:59):
New moon lunacy. Full moon and then all.
Of that sort of stuff, you know,it just.
Yeah. So you've got to be able to read
people. Yeah.
And you must be so. Good at reading people after all
this time had a. Bit of practice this is, it's
changed my. Life for this group, like, you
know, because, yeah, just so many wonderful people and doing

(47:20):
things that I never would have thought were possible for me.
I didn't grow up as a swimmer. And then you talk to other
people when you hear their stories.
Like you say, everyone's got a different reason.
Absolutely so. Inspiring.
Yep. But if it wasn't for coming out
here, you know, I'd be a grumpy old.
A grumpy old matriarch. Because, I mean, when I left

(47:41):
this morning, OK, so there were our five boys at home, plus
three others. And you never know, they might
be more when I get home or there'll be less.
Who knows? Who knows?
Are you? Naturally a morning person, but
I mean, what time, what time do you wake up to get here on a
Wednesday morning on a Wednesdaymorning?
I. Set my alarm to 5:00, order to

(48:01):
5. Because I've got to have.
Time to go and get the coffee, yeah?
And because I can get. Old people's coffee.
Yeah, so do you. Get a discount with a gold card.
Yeah, right. It's $3.00 so.
One and your Saturday. Morning session at 1099, so that

(48:22):
starts at 5:45. You get up before 5.
Yeah, same. Time.
Yeah, yeah. Because yeah, you.
You get up at that time of the morning and it's a beautiful
time. It's just my time.
Looks like they're making progress.
Here with the Yep. Replenishing the sand.
Which is from Dunedin, I heard. Yeah.
So they. Yeah, because there has to be a

(48:43):
special type of sand. Yeah, because they it's not
mined out of a beach. It's crossed rock and they crush
it to a certain size. Yeah.
So that it won't blow away. I see.
So. That's that's handy.
Yeah, well. And it won't get.
Swept out too much, it'll stick around.
Longer. Yeah, stick out longer.
And they do this. Once every 10 years, thus this

(49:05):
level of replenishing. I know they do the maintenance
every year as well. Yeah, every so often.
They do the maintenance because it comes out to get swept down
here, so they take it out from here and then they take it back
down there. I feel sorry for the metal
detectorists. They're out of a job for a
little bit, just a few weeks. I guess they can go to the other
beaches coming. Yeah.
Well, that's true, yeah. Yeah.

(49:26):
But you know the story of how itcame about at night?
Yeah, the beach. Oriental Bay beach.
Oriental Bay Beach was not Oriental Bay Beach.
It was just Oriental Bay becauseit was a stripe of a Bay.
Yep. And just full of rocks.
I've seen the old. Photos of it, Yeah, when the
tram went along and yeah, and sowhen.
The ships came over from Englandduring the war.

(49:49):
They came with ballast, which was sand, and so they had to
have somewhere to put the sand. So the sand got dumped at
Oriental Bay. I see.
So that's. How?
Oriental Bay became Oriental Beach, and of course it was such
a popular thing that they've continued to put sand there.
But of course the sand that we've got just blows away, so

(50:09):
that's why they get the heavily crushed stuff too.
Stay on the beach and stop moving around.
So that's how it come about. Pretty special this place.
Isn't it with? I didn't realize the saltwater
fountain is how rare it is to have a saltwater fountain.
Yep, because. A lot of them just, you know,
they seize up because of the saltwater.

(50:31):
It is and it's. It's a special thing, lovely to
swim around. With the rainbows and on a sunny
day. Yeah, just beautiful, isn't?
It. So yeah, I started.
The first adult. I ever adult I ever taught, was
in Kimberley but never taught. An adult, however, was this
lovely old lady and her and she came to me and she said, my

(50:54):
surgeon says I have to learn howto swim because I've just had a
radical mastectomy. And he says I need to do
exercise and swimming is the best thing.
And she said, but I can't. I hung on to the things that I
had learned as teaching disabledkids and thinking, yeah, OK, So
of course, when you get in the water and you're even on both

(51:15):
sides, you're generally even because when you don't have one
breast, you're going to be. Naturally lopsided, yeah.
And so to teaching somebody withwas lopsided was quite a
children, especially for your first.
Adult student and she. The day that she came and she
started, she said, you know, dear, I have never been in.

(51:38):
Put my whole body in and immersed it in water.
Wow, that's amazing. She said my.
Parents were prospectus. This is way out in the Orange
River and all around up there. Yeah.
There's a big dis load of sand just come in.
She'd never put her body in water.
Yeah. They had only used water as you

(51:59):
know, splish in a splash. Yeah.
And for drinking because there was nothing else.
Yeah. And then she married a
prospector and so of course it just continued.
So she never. And she was so excited about the
feeling of getting in the water.And that just brought my
excitement back about teaching adults.

(52:19):
Yeah. And that was.
Where? It started.
It was just teaching a lovely old lady how to swap.
Yeah, and right from the. Beginning and right from the
beginning. Hard to imagine isn't?
It having never gotten into water did we just because we're
surrounded by it here and we just take it for.
Granted, yeah, you know, actually something.
We haven't. Talked about this is your 6:45

(52:42):
AM text message that you send every Sunday morning to tell us
what the conditions are like here.
Yeah, at the beach. Absolutely.
Well. I'm here usually around about
6:00-ish, yeah. And I like to.
I have looked at the weather forecast and because by the time
you get here in the mornings, it's usually much better
conditions than that rest of theday.

(53:04):
Yeah. I mean, you have a look how it's
picking up now. Yeah.
And yeah, I just sit and enjoy the peace of my quiet and yeah,
and then send out a text. And so there'd be probably.

(53:26):
6060. Tech started seeing that as a
swimmer. It's good idea to come and swim
in different conditions, but I have to say when I see your text
that it's perfect. Swim conditions like that really
makes my heart. But do you know there are
people? Who will not swim in anything
but flat as a swimming pool. And they're not safe.
They're not safe at all in that because.

(53:48):
Conditions can change really quickly, absolutely.
The wind picks up and. All of a sudden and then it's.
You're in the chop. Yeah, that's it.
And I've got, you know, I've hadone guy who was international
New Zealand Rep, triathlete, lovely fella, and he wouldn't

(54:10):
train in anything else but flip,flip.
Believe me, they had. To be Mill Pond, flat
conditions, like in a swimming pool.
And then he'd be off on a trip overseas to compete in a
triathlon. And I'd say to him, but the
conditions aren't going to be flat.
Yeah. And he says, see, no.
And sometimes he just doesn't compete.

(54:34):
Right. Yeah, because he's not prepared.
He's just not prepared. And, well, at least he's not
stupid and go out there and being prepared is That's why I
say to everybody, doesn't matterwhat the conditions are, come
and have fun, yeah. Yeah, and just get used to it
and yeah, have a play, you know?And I mean, you've had a couple

(54:54):
of goodies over the last month and, you know, all you can do is
come and have fun. Yeah.
And it's very. Rare for you to cancel this one
completely. I think it's happened maybe
twice in the three years that they've been coming, and once it
was because I think the water quality was so bad after a
whole. Not a stormy weather.
That's right, yeah. And once we did it, when I got

(55:18):
down to 6° and I cancelled it, and that was the year that we
had the snow, yeah. And coming down.
The gorge. I wasn't going to drive down the
gorge with a gorge all full of snow because I'd never driven.
You were not. Used to it that way in any
condition like. That and I wasn't going to put
me at risk or anybody else. And there was a group that
decided no names. They decided, well, we'll still

(55:41):
go. So they all get in and off they
go doing this one, never bothering to think that check on
your mates or anything like that.
One young man ended up hypothermic quite bad.
And it wasn't until all the others were back that they
realized that there was somebodythat they had misplaced.
No. I was just really.
Irritated at that, you know you do something for their own good,

(56:04):
and they decide to they know better.
Because you've had. I know you've had swimmer
swimming with you for decades. And so people, you know, they
have injuries or they have surgery and then they they go
for a while. But it's a place that they can
always come back to, right? Yeah.
Because I've got 1 bloke that's done his anterior cruise ship
and training for the big Iron Man and tulpa and yeah, like he

(56:29):
gets off operated on next week. So the only thing that he could
do was still keep swimming, right?
So he did. Figure.
Out how to turn took a bit the first time he got in he was just
going around in circles because he couldn't turn, especially
when a pool was deeper right Andnow he just comes in, stands up

(56:49):
with one foot and then pushes off and goes I.
See, just so that he. Doesn't twist his knee.
You don't want another injury. Yeah, swimming can be good
rehabilitation, can't it? Absolutely.
And. It's not just a physical rehab.
Yeah, the mental health. It's the mental health one.
Too, Yeah, especially when you get athletes like that, you

(57:10):
know, who spend years training. I mean, I think this is a second
line man spent years training and and all of a sudden a skiing
trip can put them. Put them.
He's quite philosophical about it.
He says it'll either men and be what it should be, or it might
not ever be. So he said at least I can still
swim. Yeah.
Because, yeah, not. Being able to get into the

(57:31):
water, that would be hard for the mental health.
So if you, especially if you've been doing it for a long time
and that's your community, that's it, you know, and.
All the guys were really, you know, with him and helping him
and encouraging him and certain.And that's what it's all about.
It's not just me. It's the community that
everybody cares about. Everybody.
Everybody, yeah. And that's what I like to see is

(57:54):
that everybody just helps one person one day, and that's all
it needs to be. Yeah.
That's like Jill that moved. Overseas just recently of course
and her first sea swim says and turn to Bruce said you took me
out on my first sea swim yeah I think that's.
The case for a lot of us, and. What would we do without brick?

(58:16):
Yeah, he's so lovely. He can feel laugh.
Yeah, he makes it. Playful as well.
He he also reminds people that it's meant to be fun.
That's true. And I remember him saying to me
at the beginning, you know, I see, I see people come and, you
know, they get more confident and then suddenly they get
obsessed. You know, we're going further
and further and and I can relateto that.
Like I become like, you know, ithappens to all of us.

(58:38):
I think that he reminds us that,you know, that's supposed to be
fun and that we had to play and he'll get people to do hand
stands by the shore at the end, jump off the pontoon.
And yeah, old John. Jump off the end of the wall.
Yeah, that's right. So many different.
Personalities in the group, and I feel like everybody has a
different role. They bring something different,

(58:58):
don't I? Yeah, that'll mean you.
Look at Segal overcoming all of the singers that he overcome
last year and. Things like that and.
It's just great to see him. Yeah, he's lovely too.
And he's always been really supportive of my song.
I remember when I first started,you know, I'd see him at coffee.
It's show now. You know how, how'd you go?
You know, how far did you go today?

(59:19):
And I'd be like, oh, you know, swam to the Ponto.
He'd go, That's awesome. You know, no matter how far I
swam, he was always so supportive.
Well, The thing is. He remembers and I remember he's
got it all written down in his diary because he's a diarist.
When he first started learning to swim.
I remember it well. I probably told you no, it was
in the May beginning of a new term.

(59:41):
And I had this button stuck. And I sit on the side and say,
OK, so this is what we're going to do.
OK, so we're all going to hop inthe pool.
And this is where I had to change my way of thinking.
Even as experienced as I am, I still have to sing.
No, that wasn't quite what I want.
It's like I used to say, OK, I want everybody to hop in the

(01:00:03):
water. And Lady took her leg off and
hopped into the water. Well, I thought, now that wasn't
really appropriate, was it? But I hadn't noticed that you
right. So she had a.
Prosthetic leg, I say. So she literally took her leg
off. Yeah, All right.
I see. And I hadn't.
Noticed because I'm just focusedon faces.
Yeah, you know, because that's the first thing that you're
reading on a person and I hadn'tnoticed it.

(01:00:25):
So anyway, so I don't say hop inthe pool anymore.
So I had to change my. Thinking, OK, so we'll all get
we'll all jump in the pool. No, that's not a good thing to
say either. But anyway, the schedule says to
me, how do I do that? I said, well, what I'd like you
to do is I want you to walk downthe steps, He says.
How? And I said, well, it's a ladder.

(01:00:48):
So you go down backwards. So you're looking at me when you
walk down the steps, right? So he's walking down the steps
and then he's got his arm aroundthe step and he says, now what
do I do? I said let go this step.
And he said I can't. So that's where that man.
Started from. That is incredible.

(01:01:09):
He was in his middle. 20s, I think.
Anyway, so we got talking and things like that and eventually
we, I taught him to swim. Yeah, it was a long, hard slog
for him, and look at him now. But he was just so.
Determined because he wanted to be a surfer because he lives in
Lowell Bay and he wanted to be able to go out there and surf
and be safe. And once he'd learnt to swim, he

(01:01:31):
was going to take lessons on howto surf.
So after he could swim out to the lighthouse and back, he
decided that he'd better have some lessons because that's what
he wanted to do. So he had two lessons on how to
how to surf and decided that he didn't like that at all, and
he's never surfed ever since. Interesting.
I don't. Know that, yeah, so.
You know, and I always hold him up to somebody special because

(01:01:54):
he did really, really, he was really quite petrified of water.
And then you see him swimming out to the lighthouse and he'd
going off and doing these 5K swims and things like that.
I remember, yes, I remember too.I can look it up in my diary.
I didn't know he kept. A diary.
I'll have to ask him about that.Yep, that's such a good idea.

(01:02:15):
Keep a record. Yep.
You must be proud of it. I'm.
Proud of everybody. I'm proud of everybody's
achievement. Sometimes I might not
acknowledge it, or in the way that people might want to be
acknowledged, but. It's it's really.
Special that I have saved another life.

(01:02:35):
Wow, Yeah, that's. Right.
Yeah, well, I. Really don't have much to praise
myself about that. I disagree.
They decided. That they would give me a civic
award. So I got a civic award.
For. Teaching something for. 50
years. I'm glad I know.
You don't like being in the limelight.

(01:02:56):
I'm glad that you were recognised.
I just hate that. Whole.
What do you hate about the attention?
Yeah, if I'm going to be. An achiever.
I just like to be a quiet achiever.
Or not. Yeah, No, I don't like fun.
Yeah. I can understand that never.
Like that just. Irritates me that far.

(01:03:18):
You know I'm not. Worth it, but no, I can, I
don't. Like having a lot of fuss on me
either. But you mean so much to so many
people. Yeah, but they mean a lot.
To me, they keep me sane just asmuch as I keep them sane because
yeah, it's just, it's really special.
Water has always been my thing and I just love it.
And I love the way that I've encouraged and everybody who

(01:03:40):
comes along, they encourage me to keep coming because I
wouldn't if. You know, like so during the
sea. Swarm.
If nobody turns up, I'll give itup, but.
Someone will always turn up. It's always some silly.
Like a turn, like you said, people.
Turn up even when you cancel thedamn thing, right?
That's right, Absolutely. Always, without fail.

(01:04:02):
I mean, I've got, I'm on a jet plane, sure.
I won't say you can have a. Couple of jet.
Planes that you have a couple? Thank you.
You're sitting. There and you're.
Thinking nobody's going to turn up, nobody's going to turn up.
630 comes around and you think nobody's here.
And then one person will work atwalking.
And it's usually, it's usually Kathy or one of those, yeah,

(01:04:23):
come on. And Jesse will say, well, I'll
give it another 10 minutes. I haven't paid to come in the
door yet until I know that somebody else would be going to
come in. And we'll give it another 10
minutes. And then we'll scarp her out the
door and you can come home for dinner.
She's lovely. Yeah, she is lovely.
I remember texting you last yearwhen I did the Blue Lake swim

(01:04:45):
and right around. And for me, that was huge to
complete the full swim that was 3 1/2 K's.
And. And it was so beautiful.
It's a beautiful day. And I remember I was swimming
and it felt like a long swim because I hadn't swim that far
before. And I may be hearing your voice
in my head a bit like Yoda, you know?
You know, Shoner, it's supposed to be fun.
Keep your head down, breathe. You know, And I did.

(01:05:07):
And then you're one of the firstpeople I texted when I got out
because I just. I was proud.
And then you said you were proud.
And that meant a lot to me. Yeah.
Yeah. And.
And that's The thing is that's it.
Yeah. And even if you'd only got
halfway in big and said they fished me out well at.
Least you got in. I was talking to.
Len Cox last week, the marathon American marathon swimmer and

(01:05:31):
she was telling me about her cock straight swim.
She was the first woman, 1975, and there were two storms that
day. And she said light winds were
predicted, but this was before GPS and what we know now.
And there was a storm from the north and a storm from the
South. And they both met in Wellington.
And she was five hours into her swim, and she was behind where

(01:05:55):
she'd started from. But she said the whole it felt
like the country was cheering her on.
Yeah. Do you remember that?
Were you? I was here.
I. Was here, I remember and I'd
caught up to my coach when I first got back.
I was working for him and he said, you know, that that was
supposed to be your swim. Did you?
Feel like it was supposed to be your swim.

(01:06:17):
He was. He was working.
Up to it, right? The coach was.
Working up to it. Did you have?
The same coach the whole the whole time?
Yep. Yep.
Yep, man, he was. Working up to it and now of
course, I decided that I'd go off overseas, right?
And then when? You came back.
Did you feel like that ship had sailed?
Yeah. No, there was no way that.

(01:06:38):
I would. Well, I mean, I had my daughter.
Yeah. New phase of life.
And you know. I had things that had to be
sorted out at home. That took its toll.
So how far were you? Swimming in your teens In my
teens. Were you?
Do were you 10K? Probably you know 5.

(01:06:59):
Five KSA session, probably 5 KSAsession.
Wow. Yeah, it would have been about
5. KSA session And was that in the
open water? No.
In the pool. Yeah, yeah.
We didn't do much training in open water because of course we
didn't have transport, you know,in the middle of a Hut valley.
And then of course. Folks didn't have, you couldn't

(01:07:20):
say them like, you know, money for a bus or anything like that.
It was just. You know, then there was.
US bought 4 kids at home so you know.
And two of us are. Swimming and the other two were.
Yeah, we're not sorry, but. You know, there was four of us
kids at home, so therefore you had to take your turn.

(01:07:44):
Yeah, make do. With what you had, you had a
pair of. Talks and you had two towels and
mum used to knit us jerseys. Non eye on them.
Yeah, have you still got? Them or are they longer think
my? Sister has got one of them and I
must ask her will I go and see her next if she's still got it
because I would like to take it back to the pool and say see you

(01:08:08):
go here home. And it would have been my
brother. 'S 1, I think those hand
knitted. They can last.
A lifetime hand knitted and of course the 9 I in it was all
hand knitted into it. It was all on.
You know, I don't know what you'd call it when you knit, but
it's not. It wasn't applicated on.

(01:08:28):
Yeah. That's really special.
When you go back to it's 1099 now, Now it's all been all sort
of renovated. Does it feel like going back to
your old pool or has it changed too much?
It's still the same. Orientation.
It's still in the same place. You still walk across the
crossing. And yeah, it's a new pool,
totally new pool. It's just my childhood area and,

(01:08:51):
you know, and I can remember, you know, where the doctor was
and the florist and things like that.
And of course, the car sales, which is where we have a coffee
in the morning. Oh, yeah.
It was a car sales when we were kids.
And that was where my sister, I reminded her about it the other
day, and she was learning to drive this boyfriend's car.

(01:09:11):
And it was a great big, heavy, old, you know, real tank thing.
And she got in the car and she was driving up our driveway past
our house, straight across the road.
And she's talking about that farfrom the plate glass window.
Oh my God. And here we.
Are sitting there on the other side that same window having

(01:09:33):
coffee and I have a little laughto myself and we were in the
car. I don't know where the hell we
were going. I don't think that he she drove
after that. Oh, really?
Put her off. She drives now.
Yeah, I. Mean, but she.
Eventually got her. License.
But yeah, just that whole there's a near miss.

(01:09:54):
It's only how life is in swings and roundabouts.
Isn't that where you end up? Back in these same places again?
That's right. Yeah.
And. I'm at peace there when I used
to, you know, before, before Daddied, you know, it was a lovely
pool. And then they put a cover over
it. And of course I'd gone overseas
and I came back and went there and it was just not right.

(01:10:16):
But not a happy place. Maybe I wasn't in a happy place
about it. Well, that wasn't.
Yeah, a 70s weren't exactly a happy time.
But. But now it's a lovely place, you
know, I've got my relics from it.
Oh, what have you got? I've got some tiles.
Yeah. Some steps, Letter steps into
the pool. Yeah.
You've. Got some memorabilia?

(01:10:37):
Yeah, that's right, You've got. Some memorabilia that's just I
gave Dugal a tile from the pool and I keep thinking I must.
You want to fill. Yeah.
Because of all. The miles And he swam it there,
swam there. Have you swam?
With him or is he's a bit younger?
No, he's younger. Than I no sorry.

(01:10:58):
Him and his coach took over whendad after dad died and then John
Hamilton, of course my coach wasthere and then I'm not quite
sure whether he didn't get the. Contract to carry.
On or maybe he'd decided that hewanted to move on.

(01:11:20):
That was something I never got to ask him.
But so then Tony Keenan took over as a coach.
And so Tony Keenan was the one that coached Phil and Rebecca
Parrott. That's another one.
You should have a checklist. Who's her name?
Well worthwhile. She still swims.
She swims for live in Masters. Well, we have been talking.

(01:11:43):
For 2 1/2 hours. Oh my, it hasn't felt that long.
Thank you for your time. It's a pleasure.
It's an honour. Feels like an honour to talk to
you about your your career That doesn't have to be an.
Honour, that's how it feels. And I'm going to get emotional
again, but I just want to say thank you, sorry.
Quite cry. All right, my love.

(01:12:05):
Thank. You.
Thank you for everything that you do for us.
It's my pleasure. As I say, I do it because I want
to do it. Sometimes I think, shall I
retire? That I don't want to stop.
Yeah, You know, because if I stop then yeah, I'll stop,
right. And I don't want.
To do that, yeah. And I'm I'm going to see you.

(01:12:27):
Tonight, because we'll be at Kilburni, right?
Yep, we will be at. Kilburni Yes, the school school
holidays are over. Yeah, the non.
Competitive adults can get back in the polls and not compete.
That's right. And don't.
Compete. No, you're not.
Allowed to no. We'd never no.
Thanks for listening to this. Episode of Swim Chats.

(01:12:49):
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So you don't miss an episode andif you enjoyed it.
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